Chris Grosso

have instead of what we do. We think things that hold us back and dampen our spirit. But it's not just about thinking. Our actions matter. It takes conscious, consistent, and creative effort to make a life worth living. This podcast is about how other people keep themselves moving in the right direction, how they feed their good wolf m Thanks for joining us. Our guest on this episode is Chris Grosso. He's only the third repeat guest on The

One You Feed. Chris Crosso is a public speaker, writer, and author of Indie Spiritualist, a no bullshit exploration of spirituality and everything mind. What I've learned about hard knocks, spiritual awakening, and the mind blowing truth of it all. Chris writes for Origin Magazine, Huffington Post and Mantra and Yoga and Health Magazine. He has spoken and performed at the Wonderlust Festival, Celebrate Your Life, Yoga Journal Conference, Sedona

World Wisdom Days, and more. He's a member of the advisory board for Drugs Over Dinner and hosts the Indie Spiritualist podcast. On the Mind part, there's the interview with Chris Crosso. Hi, Chris, welcome to the show. Hey, Eric, thank you very much for having me. I appreciate it. Yes, you are, I think our third repeat guests, so it doesn't happen often, so we are we are happy to have you back on. You've written a new book called

Everything Mind. I have wow, man. Why First of all, I did not know I am only your third repeat guests, so I am doubly excited now also feeling a bit more pressure. I've really got to make sure it's worth you guys a while. But no, really, thank you man, I really appreciate it. Yeah. Your new book, very much like your previous book, The Indie Spiritualist, is really about

your journey through this the spiritual landscape. The subheading is what I've learned about hard knocks, spiritual awakening, and the mind blowing truth of it all. So we will dig more into that book shortly, but let's start off like we always do, with the parable. There's a grandfather who's talking to his grandson. He says, in life, there are two wolves inside of us that are always at battle.

One is a good wolf, which represents things like kindness and bravery, love, and the other is a bad wolf, which represents things like greed, hatred, fear. And the grandson stops and he thinks about it for a second, and he looks up at his grandfather and he says, well, grandfather, which one wins? And the grandfather says, the one you feed. So I'd like to start off by asking you what that parable means to you in your life and in the work that you do. Yeah. Wow, you know, I

forgot that you started that parable. And now I wish I could go back and listen to the last answer I had, because I've man, I have no idea where I went with it over, neither does anyone else at this point. Probably you can. I wouldn't worry about being original at this point. Yeah, No, I just hopefully I don't duplicate myself. I mean where I'm at today. When I'm hearing that, it actually makes me think of, uh what.

In Buddhism they teach quite a bit about the seeds that we have laying dormant in our store consciousness and how we water those seeds, you know, whether they are positive seeds or negative seeds, and we water them by what we do in our lives. Um. You know what we feed ourselves. And I'm not speaking just food wise, but you know, what do we feed ourselves? What are we reading, what are we doing? How are we showing up in the world? Are we being of service in

some way? Are we taking care of ourselves? So that's that's kind of what it represents to me today with where I'm at, you know, the the seeds in my consciousness and how am I watering them or which ones in my watering? Um. But I really dig that parable, man, I remember, I really like that the first time you guys shared it too. That's that's a great, great way

to start this segment. Yeah, I think you know, I know you have a history of drug abuse, UM addiction like myself, and that parable I think has a particular significance for some people. Um, even I think it resonates for everybody. But for me, boy, that bad wolf was so you know, out of control. Well fed, we shall say, right.

And you know, the interesting thing is, though though it is in my experience not is well fed today, it's still there, you know, Like I, I I know that it rears its big bad wolf head every now and then, and uh, sometimes I give it more attention than I should, but you know, that's life, and it's a practice, and uh and I just show up each day trying to nurture the good wolf and and feed and care for

that one. Yeah. That's one of the things I really like about the parable is that it indicates like this is the human condition. We all have this, and it indicates that it's not like a foregone conclusion. This is a close battle, right There's it's it goes on. It's not like we're gonna, you know, do enough meditation retreats where suddenly you know, there's no longer that that dual nature where we no longer have to uh folk guss on on being the best version of ourselves. I think

that that never ends. And that's part of what I like about it is because I think it really normalizes the fact that none of us are perfect and none of us are going to be perfect. Oh man, absolutely.

I even love when some Buddhist teachers will share stories about the Buddha after he had attained enlightenment, and you know how you'd have gatherings and Mara would still come around, and sometimes his attendance would kind of freak out like, oh my god, Buddha mars here, and he would welcome our in and serve mar te, you know, and uh, And that I think is a wonderful example of how even the Buddha, you know, after attaining enlightenment still had his wolf so to speak. You know, So it doesn't

matter who you are. It is part of the human condition, bottom line. So yeah, it's just what do you know, how do we handle it? What do we do when that wolf does show up? So that that is a nice byproduct of practices like meditation or other spiritual endeavors. Um they help us, you know, to show up more consciously for these things and work with them a bit more skillfully. Though, like I already said, though, it doesn't mean we're perfect, you know, using myself an example, so

far from it. But it's it's a real effort that I that I make, and I'm grateful for that. Well, myself included on that far from perfect. So let's start off with the title of the book, which is Everything Mind. What does that mean? So everything Mind really it considers everything in our lives is part of the spiritual path, and that includes, kind of, like we've already been alluding to in a way, our our triumphs and our heartbreaks,

the joys and suffering the light in the dark. I've personally come to realize that these are all equally suitable

teachers in lessons in life. And you know, part of the reason I really liked Everything Mine for the title is because something I knowed that happens for a lot of people when it comes to the spiritual path, and myself very much included in the early stages of my own journey, was that um I would and others tend to compartmentalize spirituality is something that's really only happening when we're formally practicing, you know, whether we're sitting in meditation

or attending a yoga class, working with a certain mantra, you know, things of that nature. But in my experience, what I've come to recognize as a spirituality, or even better, its spirit um abuse all of life, in every minute, whether I am consciously aware of it in that moment or not, it's it is all that is happening. It's, like I said, it abuse all things. So taking that into consideration, UM, another reason I liked Everything Mine for

the title was against something I fell victim to. Something I see there's tend to struggle with is that they predominantly will associate spirituality with just the positive kind of love and light aspects of their lives and their experiences. And of course that is absolutely a part of it. But obviously life isn't always positive and happy. So if we're looking to be inclusive in our practice, I think it's of paramount importance that we honor the dark side, the the bad wolf, and in a way where we

acknowledge its presence and work with it. UM. I know our our last episode that we've done together, we titled that Nomad No Lotus, which was based on a saying that the Zen Buddhist teacher tickno Han uses quite often, and I love that because to me, that means, you know, our best selves can grow out of the most difficult

times are pain and are suffering. And so as we begin to live our lives from this place of everything my and which again is a place that brings everything to our spiritual paths, we can learn to compassionately work with and through the things that life hands us, you know, good or bad, and even get to the point where we can do so with an open and courageous heart and mind. Um. So you know that's that's a few

thoughts on everything mind. I like in the introduction, which was written by Ken Wilberg, he talks about everything mind is being another way of saying Buddha mind or christ consciousness, universal mind, brahmin, you know something like that. So I dug that as well. So I kind of like that people can take it and put their own spin on it, which is similar to INTI Spiritual. It is my first book, you know it. It's kind of what does it mean to you? You know, take it and run with it.

I have my own ideas, but um, I really like when people kind of take something and make it their own. There was a lot in what you just said there. I think the part about compartmentalizing is is so true, not just in spirituality, but I think in all aspects of my life. I ink that for me, as I became more comfortable being who I was wherever I was, and bringing all the parts of me to wherever I was, the better off I was. Um, and that always takes courage.

I mean it happened today. I was I was sitting somewhere and somebody came by and was like, oh, you know, what are you reading? And I had your book? And I was like, how do I show him this book? You know, it's like it's just some passers by, it's a place I eat all the time. And I thought, why not? You know, I'm just showing the book. And he's like, oh, man, I really like that. And you know, so it's it's just taking that little bit of chance to be open about who we are. And and I

love the way that you blend music. You know, you're into hardcore, you're into hip hop, you're into punk rock. Um, how do you blend that with what we traditionally think of as incense and sandals and prayer beads? Right? That all comes together right in the center of your life. Yeah,

it's all. It's all part like I said, everything mine. Man, it's all part of the spirit virtual path, and and that's really wonderful, uh for me at least, and and many others I talked to kind of approach life with this open attitude, because when we're not closing ourselves off spiritually speaking, you know, when we're not only having these designated times of formal practice, which those times are important.

I don't mean to take anything away from them, but when we get up from the cushion and we are bringing that practice with us out into the world rather than leaving it there, then we're making ourselves available to spiritual experiences at any time, you know. And I'm using the word spiritual, but we could replace that with life experiences, um, but experiencing them in a way where we're fully there

for them in the moment. And as I write about in this book into my past last book, you know, I've had those experiences that Slayer concerts and motor Head concerts and Naughty by Nature serves and skateboarding nature yeah, oh yeah, Naughty by Nature, that's right. Yeah. Man. So it's like, because I'm open to it, so you never know when when something's gonna hit and and it's it's just uh, I I find it a much a much more exciting, uh and skillful kind of way of living.

We're going to circle back to some of those topics in a minute. I want to ask you a question because this comes up to me a lot, and it's it's sort of the logical brain working right, and that's usually not the best way to try and approach spiritual items. But every once in a while when I hear this, it's all connect like, it's all God, right, God, let's just use the word God because it's easier, you know,

God abuse everything is everywhere. Then there's a part of me that occasionally goes, well, if it's everywhere, it's kind of like, well, then nothing is more special than anything else. Um, it's sort of like if everything is a high priority, nothing's a high priority. And uh, I just sometimes get my brain kind of gets hung up on that idea and I just think it's a I just brain it up as one of those areas that I kind of wander into intellectually where I go, well, if that's the case,

is anything is any of its sacred? If it's all sacred, see, and to me, it's all sacred and none of it is, you know, it's it's kind of like like tickna Han again going back down would say, you know, no coming, no going, no birth, no death. Um, it's it all is and it all isn't. And that's what I appreciate from Nagarjana, you know, the the old Buddhist philosopher, when he brought to the table the two truths, the truth

of the absolute and the truth of the relative. And the relative is this form level where we're doing, you know, this intellectual thinking and uh, and it's life, it's life stuff, and it's just as true as the ultimate truth. That's

why they're two truths. But understanding that that's only half of the truth and the other half of the truth where we know in Buddhism they don't usually use the word god, some some Buddhists do, but it um you know, they might say Buddha mind, or we could call it dharma, kaiah whatever everything. Everything might write exactly right right, but underlying this form experiences relative experience. Is this all uh?

It just such nous, This isness, this everything mind you know it really but but again it's something you can't intellectualize. That's the thing. Like they say, um nirvana. For example, a lot of teachers will save it as the extinction of all notions about Nirvana. You can't talk about it, you can't think about it, because once you do, you're bringing your own lens into it, and that's not what it is, you know, it's the polar opposite of that.

So it's it's so tricky to talk about these things, you know, when really it comes down to the experience, having your own direct experience. And that's why I write in this book about cultivating you know, what I would call the path of direct experience, but then even going beyond that, because an experience is still just an experience, but it goes even deeper than that, you know, it is really quite the rabbit hole once you step foot

into this path. But finding some humor and lightheartedness as well, especially because I do the same thing. Man, I will intellectualize stuff all day long. And uh and that's actually for me, been part of my problem, you know. I I have had a very hard time throughout the years making that journey, you know, from the head down to the heart and combining the two into a place of

heart mind. Um. And on a good day, man, sometimes I'm kind of there and that's great, But on other days I will still be reading things and intellectualizing it. And even though I've had some experiences which for me have kind of shown a truth deeper than we can really put into words, I still, you know, I I still wanted to make sense. It's that that's the nature of of being human. You know, the mind wants to understand.

We want to figure things out. And there's nothing wrong with that, you know, It's just it is what it is.

And now back to the interview with Chris Grosso. I've been interested lately in the concept that comes from Hinduism that there are four different ways that we sort of approach everything mind or enlightenment or non dual consciousness or the Godhead, and and it recognizes some people do it through more of a devotional method, some people do it through more of an intellectual method, some people do it

through more of a service method, right, you know. And I find that very comforting to me that there's different ways to get here. And so instead of always trying to fight my intellectualism, at least allow it to be part of the situation for me where I know it can be limiting, but I think it's been better for me to recognize that's a valid way to approach truth and that I shouldn't, you know, try and force it

aside so so much sometimes. But like you, I think, and it may be the drug addict in me, right that like I want the experience. I want to feel it, damn it, right, Like you know, I want to feel it. I love that you brought that up, because I wrote a little about that in my first book. But you know, people are often surprised. They're like, you know, do do yoga? And it's like, well, what kind of yoga? You know?

Like you just said, there's there's these four branches and many more if we're going to go deep into pot angel these teachings. But um no, I don't. I personally don't do the posting yoga Austina yoga. I don't have any problem with it. I just don't do it. But I very much would consider myself a bak De practitioner, which is, you know, the devotional path as well as the the yana yogi, which is the intellectual um part.

And you know, but again that goes back to the intellect versus the heart and trying to find the balance between the two. But yeah, man, there's so many different paths and practices and wisdom traditions and you know, on and on. But that's the beautiful thing is that there is a way for literally anyone to find their own

quote unquote spiritual way in this world. I in the introduction, I read about a friend of mine, Chris Tedman, who's an atheist, and he wrote a really wonderful book called Faitheist, in which he talks about the importance in his life of finding a way to work with people, you know that do have a faith, regardless of what it is, but meeting them in a place where they can come

together and serve humanity for the greater good. And to me, I know Chris wouldn't call that spiritual, but to me, just you know, because that's the context in which I kind of view life from, I would very much call that spiritual. And and I think that's wonderful. Man Like I don't. I don't think you necessarily have to, um, you know, have a a formal god or religious practice

in order to be spiritual. I mean, I that's stating the obvious, because religion and spirituality are two different things. But I really do believe people can cultivate a spiritual lifestyle. Um by first exploring what their passions are, you know, and then building it from there. I think that's a great way of going about it, especially with a lot of the younger people I talk with who are skeptical

and have cynicism towards spirituality. And I think that that is a very healthy thing to a certain extent um to be cynical, but still to keep an open mind. And so the of younger people, if I'm talking into college, for example, that's maybe a way I would approach it with them, you know, asking where where is your passion, you know, and say, for example, it's an art student. Awesome, you know, there's so much spirituality and art, you know,

just being there completely present while you're creating. You know, this this beautiful piece of whatever form of media, you know, art media. It is again to me, that's way spiritual. And it doesn't mean you have Christianna Dason in the background, though you very much could. Um or you could have on hey man, yes you could, and you might in my case there's a good chance. But actually it's funny.

I was my daughter and not to get away off topic, but we were, um, my wife and daughter and I were looking at this YouTube video the other day of I think it was like Star Wars. A house that had decorated uh their lights to coincide with Star Wars, and I saw someone also did like a Christmas Slayer thing, and so I put that on and it was my year old stepdaughter's first introduction to Slayer. As she was so unimpressed. It was hilarious, but you know, what are

you gonna do? And then she wanted to hear there's this acapella band, Pentatonics, and she's like, let's watch that one, and she got all happy. So, you know, whatever it is to each their own. So that leads into uh, not the story about your your daughter, but the part before that leads into um, this idea of spiritual practice.

And in your book there's a lot of different spiritual practices, and frankly, there's lots of spiritual practices littered all over the place everywhere you turn these days, lots of different approaches.

One of the things that I've noticed in people that I work with and doing coaching in different things is that when there is ambiguity and there's not a clear plan or a clear path of action, it's very easy to not do anything sure and so I'm curious, from your perspective, how do people who to engage in spiritual practice, you know, want to do some of these things? How do they map out a plan for themselves? How do they come up with an approach? Um? When? Where? How?

How much? How often? How long? I mean, I think these are all really valid questions for the people who are doing things like listening to podcasts and going well, I'd like to be more spiritual, but what does that mean? I and I couldn't agree more with you. So the the important thing for me in the way I write and and teaches that I'm even though I know we're talking a lot about Buddhism. Um, I'm not Buddhist, I'm

not Hindu, I'm not Christian. You know. I have a great reverence for these wonderful wisdom traditions, but um, I don't classify myself as any of them. I have my practice, and I draw from these traditions. I mean, if anything you could call me, I suppose interfaith. But I've never

been a big fan of labels. Um, So for me, not being a teacher of a specific lineage, it is important for me to lay out a bunch of different options for people, because I know a lot of people that read my books are newer to the spiritual path. Some of them I've been pleasantly surprised. During there's fifties, sixties, seventies that came up with the Ramdas counterculture movement, you know, Alan Watts and all of those guys, and they're they're

resonating with this material, and that's been awesome. But a lot of the people are newer, and what I find with a lot of people I talked to is they've been very turned off to the idea of spiritual practice because they have this misperception that it's dogmatic, it's rigid, it's you know, I have to do this, this and this now. If you're if you're going to embark on a certain lineage. Absolutely that might be the case, and

I don't think there's anything wrong with that whatsoever. I have wonderful friends that do very much call themselves Buddhist or Christian or Hindu, you know, and that's great, that's what works for them, and I deeply honor that um. But for me, what's important is really too allow these people that are newer to have a feeling of freedom as they are exploring, you know, because I know for me, when I was younger, being told what to do, oh, you know, that was the worst thing in the world.

So I want these people to feel open and free. And I I know that will often hear uh teachers of older generations or even maybe younger generations to say that, you know, you don't want to hang out and quote unquote the spiritual buffet line. And to a certain extent,

I absolutely agree. However, I think in the very beginning that is a valuable place to to spend a little time in because if you're just going to jump in, you know, head over heels into one specific tradition without exploring the others, you need to get a little taste. How do you know for sure that's the one. I mean, maybe okay, you've like you've had this really deep vision or calling and and right, if that's the case, go

for it. But if it's not, then spend a little I'm exploring, you know, get to know what each tradition is teaching, what they're not teaching, get to know their practices, and and then from there, I think you can make a more educated decision to move forward. So but to go back, you know, all the way back to your question. It's hard for me to kind of answer that since that's again going back to I'm not a teacher of

a specific lineage. So what I can say for myself, the most important thing in my life and has been for many years, is having a dedicated meditation practice, something that I do almost every day. There are certain days where I just can't get to it, if I'm traveling or whatnot. But that's part of the not being rigid, you know, is understanding that some days things life happens

and you just can't get to it. But on those days, I can use what's called matra practice, which is the repetition of either a sacred name or a sacred mantro phrase you know that means something to whether it's taken from Buddhism or Christianity or whatever the case. You know, So there's always a way to practice every single day.

And that's part of what I was saying earlier, where if we have this formal practice, that's great and that's very important, but it shouldn't for us stop right there when we get up from the kushion or leave the yoga studio. You know, to me, if I'm washing my hands, and I am aware that right now I'm washing my hands, that is just is sacred a form of meditation that's formally sitting down because I'm there in that moment with

that experience, and that to me is meditation. So that's the one thing I would really recommend anyone, regardless of what tradition you are or are not interested in, is to take up a meditation practice. And there is so many different kinds of meditation, you know, there's no shortage of of ways to find ones that will work for you in your time. There's walking meditations, guided meditations, breath meditations.

I mean, just google meditation, you know, or hit YouTube up and you'll have no shortage of options to choose from. So I do have a daily meditation practice. It's something I finally managed to build after a couple of decades of being intermittent. But I find that like, well, what am I gonna do? Am I gonna do a breath meditation? Am I going to do a sound meditation? Am I

going to you know, do ah guided meditation? I find myself almost sometimes getting um hung up on what the practice could be because there's so many different meditation practices. And so for myself, I've been working on saying, Okay, well for this week, I'm going to do this kind of thing every day, so I at least know, because mid meditation, if I'm not enjoying it, I'll be like, oh, I should probably be doing X, Y or Z instead.

And I've tried to get away from that and and just stick to all right, this week, I'm gonna I'm gonna see what happens, what the experiences of doing something like transcendental meditation for a week versus versus mindfulness or and that helps me to be a little bit less all over the place. I think that's awesome. And that's the way to keep it fresh too, because I know a lot of people. You know, meditation can get boring. If we're going to be honest about it. It can

be ecstatic, it can be boring. I mean, you know, you'll run the gamut of emotions. But I think that's a really wonderful way of keeping it fresh is doing that. I know when I go to the gym, I I

a while back, I found myself getting really bored. So I started reading a bit more on new routines and new regiments, and I found something that really works for me, where each week, you know it's upper body is the focus or lower body though you're still bringing each portion in every week, but you know there's there's a schedule each week. You know, in each week, it it mixes up a bit. And I made sure to you know, incorporate different exercises for same body parts in that way.

It keeps it interesting and it you know, it makes it easier for me to get mysel back to the gym. And and I can see how that would be very much the same for meditation as well. So I think

that's great man. Yeah, I think it's trying to find that balance between a routine that becomes a boring you know, like just drudge your way through it because you have to thing, and the other side, which is that there's no real clear plan because like I said, for myself and for lots of people that I work with, that's the biggest thing is we don't we're not consistent with what we do because we don't have a consistent plan.

We anytime there's ambiguity, I think procrastination wins. And so yeah, I do the same thing exercise wise about every six months.

I'm like all right, I've kind of had it to this, like and I find something new to do, but I try and find like, Okay, that's what I'm gonna do, and and I'm going to do it according to X, Y or Z plan or have that, And that's I don't think everybody's that way, but I certainly am, like I need some degree of here's what it is each day because if I have to figure out what I'm gonna do at the gym in addition to get myself to the gym, boy, it's easy to there's a lot

of ways that it's a lot of places to end up that aren't the gym on that journey, absolutely right, right, And so we're gonna take this back to spirituality. That's why to me, I find that in you know, it's it's been over twelve years since I stopped foot onto the path that um. In those twelve years, I still have not felt compelled to pick like one specific lineage, one wisdom tradition and stick with that because I I just find a lot of enjoyment in the teachings from

all of these various traditions. And it's not that I think they're all saying the same thing. Because they're obviously not. There are certainly plenty of places where they intersect, and that's always a neat dichotomy to to see happening. But uh,

that too keeps spirituality fresh for me. And then not just keeping it from the teachings from the traditions, but you know, again bringing it out into the world when I step my skateboard or at a Slayer concert or wherever, you know, like at uh, playing my little Ponies with my daughter, you know, whatever I'm doing, like just being there present with it, and yeah, man, it makes life really really pretty incredible. We would be remiss to not

talk about your motor Head story, particularly with Lemmies passing. Um. You know, it's it's just timely on a bunch of ways, and it leads us into the topic of interdependence, which was one of the big ones that I wanted to hit uh in this interview. So can you tell us the Motorhead Lemmy story and spiritual learning that that you got from that? For sure? Man, Yeah, it is very timely, you know, of course, rest in peace to Lemmy. Uh,

a metal god among God's for sure. Um. I was very heartbroken to hear the news of his passing yesterday that I can't say completely shocked because his health has been deteriorating in recent years. But yeah, man, so we got to see them. It's actually I've only seen motor Head twice and this was the second time I got to see them a few years ago. And it was really great because I had a photo pass because I

was covering it from my website. And for those who don't know, photo pass means I get to go literally right up to the front of the stage. And this is at a huge event, so you know, it's really a well done production. And so there I am, you know, and the lights go out and Motorhead chance start and next thing I know, you know, the lights come on and literally like a foot in front of me at

the age there's let me. I you know, I positioned myself amongst there was a bunch of other photographers, but I positioned myself very early, like right in front of his microphone, and so you know, I was I was pretty star struck, man, Like that doesn't happen to me often, but this has let me and uh a big deal

for me and a big influence musically. So it was like a minute, two minutes something like that into their song and he's playing this really beautiful Rick and Bocker bass And I actually posted the picture on my Facebook page yesterday that from this portion of the book I was writing about, and it was this really beautiful wooden uh leaf in my it was a version of the Rick and Bocker I've never seen him play before, and so you know, they're they're they're tearing it up as

motor had does, and um, I don't know, man, My thoughts just naturally started gravitating towards the Buddhist teachings of

interdependence what tech Nahan would call inter being. And I started to think about this base, and then I started to look deeper at it, as technology would teach us to do, and I started thinking about the fact that, you know, that base came from a tree, and then it just kind of went off from there to thinking about how the tree had to have sunshine to nourish it to grow, and there had to be rain in order to help the tree grow, and all of these things that had to enter be with one another to

create that the tree which would then become the base. But then, you know, my mind started also thinking about how not only that, but then there had to be these craftsmen at the Rick and Bocker factory that created the base you know, from hand. And uh, you know, their parents had to meet in the first place and and uh consummate and um, you know in order to have them, and then their parents had to have them,

and Letty's parents had to have him. And just literally this whole inter being of life, how all things are inter being at all times, both on the relative form level and the absolute you know, it's it's all all happening together at the same time. It's just beautiful dance of the Hinters would call it the leila, you know,

the dance of life all unfolding before us. But it really, I know it's kind of cliche to say, you know, it's all one man and urnamastay, but but there's a really deep truth to the fact that it is all one. It really is all interconnected, you know, at these sub atomic levels. Um, it's it's like a quantum soup, you know, from which all these form or relative things arise and they're all inter being. You know, think about our bodies within these kind of skin bags, as Alan Watts would

call them. You know, there's all these organs that are inter being. There's atoms and molecules and cells that all these things that are just inter being with one another in order for our bodies to function on a daily basis. And then we're showing up and we're doing whatever we're doing in the world, and it's having its effect on others. And it's just really quite a dance, man, quite a dance. And and that's how I find I live life today

is looking more deeply and and having these experiences. Again, like I said, if I'm at a motoried concert or on my skateboard or I also write at one point in the book about how I love to go out running, and I'll often look at houses, you know, and and traditionally we'll see a house or a building and see

it as this kind of solid entity. But if we look deeper, you know, the house is a compositive wood and nails and appliances and you know, utensils and and all of these things that had to come together in order to make a house or a table or a computer. You know, all of these things have to interbee in order to make these things. Um an acorn tree, you know, like a uh an acorn had to fall into or be planted in the earth, and there had to be rain, and you know, and and it all had to come

together to create this tree. It's just that's life. It's all into being. And so when we start to really contemplate that more and have that experience and look deeper, this separate sense of self that most of us have begins to dissipate a bit. And in my experience, the greatest source of my suffering was that, you know, I believed I was this isolated, separate self, cut off from the rest of the world. Um, you know, very lonely,

very scared, very afraid. But the more I have these experiences and this deeper understanding of inter being, life really is a much more peaceful, flowing, and friendly experience. It is far from perfect, and you know, there are terrible things that happen on a daily basis, not to me specifically, but I mean, I'm not saying that there it stops. The rape and the terrorism and the all of the terrible things that do happen on an hourly or a

minute by minute basis in this world. It's all still there. But there are also these other beautiful things that are happening. And so that tends to be a bit more of my experience, and uh, it helps me to be a better person in this world and offer a better version of myself to others. Yeah, I love that tracing something back, like looking at something and thinking of everything that had

to happen for that thing to come. And if we'd spend an hour talking about everything that had to happen, what we can spend far longer than that for you and I to have this converse sation and for someone out there in the world to be listening to it right now. And I talk on the show a lot about negative thought patterns and rumination, and one of the things that that I do is I do these sort of concentration exercises that give my brain something else to

do besides spiral and their normal morose, oppressive paths. And and that's another great one that I found, is to do that sort of inner being exercise of pick something around me and start thinking about, Okay, what all had to have happened. Um, it gives my brain something to do besides churn in negativity. It's interesting enough that it keeps my brain hooked, which is I think is one of the really important ways to stop negative thought patterns.

Is you've got to give your brain something to do, and at the same time, there's a spiritual truth behind it that that comes through. And so that's another one of the things that I really like to do. I don't do it as often, but it's a really powerful way for me to get out of whatever spot I'm stuck in mentally. Oh man, that's great. Yeah, I I completely agree. And that's why even things like mantras as well. They that's often referred to as mind protection because isn't

it crazy, man, that our thoughts every day? I forgot the statistics you might even know, but it's insane, Like we have all these thousands of thoughts every day, tens of thousands of thoughts, and it's something like not even one or two percent of them are different than what we were thinking yesterday, and the majority of those thoughts are rooted in negativity. Isn't that crazy? Man? And we'd never ever get tired of it. We might say we're fed up with this or that, but if we really were,

you know, why aren't we doing something about it? So I think it's because it's hard to do, um sure. I mean, like mantras are a good one, I think, depending on your brain type. For me, if I'm really rooted in something in some sort of rumination, it's like I think of the mantra like four times, and then I'm right back to what I was doing, and then

I'm back to them. I mean, it's it's not sticky enough sometimes, And that's why I find these sort of positive concentration games like the Alphabet Gratitude game where you try and go through the alphabet and think of something you're grateful four that starts with A, or you think of a song that starts with A that you love, or those things are sticky enough from my brain and there's enough like positive emotion in them usually that if I just keep sticking with that for a little while,

I find myself on the other side for a little while anyway, right, and then it's that then it's none of these things are like you know, It's like it's funny with all this spiritual stuff. I've been thinking a lot lately about how none of it is ever done.

It's like going to the gym analogy is really good because I cannot go to the gym now and have that be good for three years, right, Like I just gotta keep going right, you know, my teeth, I gotta keep brushing them every day for them to stay clean. I think that I'm starting to accept it more and not fight it. That that these these spiritual practices, these little things I do to keep my brain in my

heart and my emotions in the right place. I just they're they're a persistent part of what I need to do to be happy in the world or content. Yeah, and I And I love that you said that because it comes back to me to my passion in the way I teach is finding what does work for you and in a way that you will be able to stick with it, you know, whether we're talking about the

gym or spiritual practice. Like That's why it's so important for me and the way I write you to offer a bunch of different things, because I want people to be aware of what's out there, you know, be able to get a little sample, a little taste of this practice or that practice, because absolutely man mantra might be it for one person, it might be like the train that they can ride all the way home, whereas for someone else, you know, they'll do it for like ten seconds.

They're like, Nope, not for me. And that's perfectly fine. Man. That's why it's so great that there's so many different means and methods in the world for every thing, you know, for for life. It's it's it's it's really great, um that we have all these wonderful options at our fingertips. And I do want to say, I love that alphabet gratitude game, and I find that, uh, that's a great one for me. I often will try to use that

when I'm going to bed. Not only does it help me fall asleep, but helps me to fall asleep on a positive note, because man, what better time for our mind to really get worked up in the negative when it's bedtime, you know. So yeah, I lovely well, we are at the end of our time, even though I've got about fifteen more questions. But I'm gonna I'm gonna end it with a quote that you had in the book that's not yours, but you you you talk about it, and I just thought it was such a great quote.

And I'm not gonna be able to pronounce the guy's name correctly, but it says, if self centeredness produced happiness, we'd all be enlightened by now by Jagged Toco rempichet. Yes, actually that's very close, right, absolutely. Yeah, You've got a lot of stuff written around that, um, but that quote really stuck out to me, like, WHOA, that's that's true because we're pretty good at that, aren't we. And here we are. I think I've got that down. Well, I'll put links to the book in the show notes. It

was a very enjoyable read. Like you said, I think it's it's a very accessible, real book about spirituality. And that was the that is the one. I guess one more thing because I was gonna I often ask people like what does spirituality mean? And it's something I think about because I think it can be a turn off of a word for so many people. And but you've got you had a definition that I thought was really good.

And maybe we'll we'll end with this, which is spirituality is an inner journey, one that takes us beneath the surface of who and what we think we are and guides each of us home to our truest self. And that's just my two cents, but most importantly, find out what it is for you. YEA. Why What I love about that is there's just a I think it's completely true. B It leaves all kinds of lattitude, And it's all about you. What is your true self? Your spiritual search.

We may look completely different than somebody else's. It doesn't have to be church, it doesn't have to be Buddhism, it does. I mean, it's your what's what's your true self? About? Uncovering that? It's just about for me, spirituality is just about going deeper inside who inside of ourselves instead of always outside. But I just love that that phrase you had there. Thanks man, I'm glad you brought that in because yeah, that's I think that actually sums up like

the overview of the book quite nicely. So cool man. Well, thanks so much for coming on, Chris. I appreciate it. I always love talking with you. We could probably have another, like I said, a few hours of this, but we'll be since since the other Chris is not with us this time, he would be given me the cut it sign here, So well, Eric, thank you man. It it's it's really a pleasure. I enjoy the show. I am a fan, so it means a lot to be back on and uh, thank you for your time and having

me as a guest. Greatly appreciated. My pleasure take care, Chris, you too. Bye. You can learn more about this podcast and Chris Grosso at one you Feed, dot Net, slash Chris and the number two. That's Chris too. Thanks,