Bonus Episode: Eric interviewed on the Life on Purpose Show

and enjoy. Also, I wanted to let you know that the one you Feed coaching program has opened back up for one week, so between now and Saturday August, if you're interested, go to one you feed dot net slash coaching program and you can get more information there, and the window does close again in a week. The last program sold out in about four days, so if it's something your interest did in, I jump on it now. Otherwise, I hope you have a great week and we'll have

another episode on Tuesday. Thanks as always for listening. Bye, Hi everybody, welcome to Life on Purpose. I'm your host, Greg Berg, and I'm very happy to have you with us today. A quick show note. If you like what you're hearing here, please check out the Life on Purpose website at Life on Purpose show dot com, where you can find episode summaries, information about the show, links to

past episodes, and much much more. And if you could pop over to iTunes, we love a review there as that helps the show reach many more people who were interested in living their own lives on Purpose Now my guest today. He's the host of a weekly podcast called The One You Feed, conversations about creating a life worth living. It's based on the parable of the two Wolves. We're gonna talk all about what that is today, What that means when You Feed was recently named one of the

best podcast by iTunes. It was also named one of the best health podcast of all time by The Huffington's Post, and it's been the number one ranked podcast in the health, Philosophy, and spirituality categories, respectively. He's also been helping to build companies for the past fifteen years and has been involved in technology for longer than that. He's led major software programs for a Fortune twenty company, and he started a

solar energy company called Tipping Point. He's also a musician, a passionate learner, and he loves to meet new people. Will talk about all of that today and much much more. Joining the via Skype from Columbus, Ohio. It's Eric Zimmer. Eric, welcome back to Life on Purpose. Hi Greg, thanks for having me back. Yes, very happy. We have a nice, crisp clear Skype connection. We we tried this before a couple of weeks ago and we just, uh, the technology

wasn't working. Our Skype wasn't working for us. So here we are again, and uh, everything sounds great and crystal clear, and uh, I'm very happy about that. But I want to tell the listeners. I always like to give them

a little information up front, some context. And Eric was one of my very first guest here on Life on Purpose when I launched the show at the begin ending of In fact, an episode that we taped last November, it was a round table that we did, the first ever Life on Purpose round table with Christopher Carter and

Amelia and Eric. We're guest, and we did this really cool, fun little we just sort of riffed and went around in a in a circle, if you will, a sort of virtual online circle, and it was a great conversation. And um, I met Eric at Camp Good Life Project back in and uh, we're fellow musicians and we're fellow podcasters, and we have a lot in common. So I'm really looking forward to diving deeper into your story. Eric. Yeah,

I'm excited to talk with you again. Cool. So this is gonna be We're gonna we're gonna set the table right up front. Eric, We're gonna kind of knock a big one right out of the park here. But the subtitle of your show, it's called creating a Life Worth Living. That's a that's a heavy subtitle. How on earth do people go about doing that in a in a very uh well, we'll get into sort of specifics, but in a very general sense, how do you live a life worth living? Eric? Well, I think your your show title

is is pretty close, right. It's about I think it's about doing things on purpose. It's about understanding what works for you, what makes you tick, what drives satisfaction in your own life, and then purposely doing those sort of things and not being on autopilot all the time, which is the default state, certainly for me a lot of the time, and I think for a lot of people I know, is it's very easy for time to get away from us and realize that we're not really living

the life that we want to be living. Yeah, I've read different studies, you know, I don't know if anyone has a definitive answer for this, but different studies have cited the fact that we were on a sort of autopilot, as you say, are living unconsciously or on a tape loop or however you want to put it, somewhere between eighty and nine pc of our lives just out of out of necessity, because I guess the way that humans evolved, in the way that our lives are set up, we

just sort of let things run on this tape loop that go again and again and again. And it really does take conscious effort to be able to break out of that tape loop and to live purposefully. And so the first part that you mentioned, though, Eric, is really so crucial, and that's the self awareness part, is really being aware of how you live your life and the

tendencies and the habits that you have. And I'd love to know right off the bat, what are some things that you do to be more self aware in your own life? Um, I think that, I mean the doing the podcast for me is one of them, because I am every week I'm talking to somebody about topics of this nature, and I'm usually preparing all week for the guests, and so my head is sort of in this space a lot, which which is helpful. Um. So I think that's one. Meditation is another thing that I have found

to be enormously helpful to me. And then some form of self reflection, whether that be journaling, whether that just be habit of kind of consistently looking back over your day or over your experiences and going okay, what was that. And then the other one that I use probably not as often as I should, but I sit down and I look at all the roles in my life that I play, you know, father, podcast host, e commerce consultant,

brother son. You know, I look at all the roles that I play, and I try and look at am I am I devoting enough time to each of those things, and some of them all look at and I go, yep, that's pretty much that's going great. Oh I've been neglecting that, you know, maybe I haven't been um, maybe I haven't been a great son lately. So then what I'll do is I'll put into some of my daily planning or the things that I try and do, you know, very regularly,

maybe insert one of those things. So when I you know, there's been periods of life where I do that every week, and that is a really powerful practice. I would not say that I do it that often now, but I still do it semi regularly, and I think it's kind of a it's kind of a thing that's sunk into

my head to some degree. A lot of these practices, if we do them consistently long enough, often enough, they start out very tedious and feeling very laborious and very forced, and eventually it just works its way into your system or into my system. Yeah. I love that concept of sort of looking at all the roles that you play. Um, that's a great way to check in with yourself and a great way to take stock of where your life

is and where you wanted to go. And uh, you know, if you're not if you're not there in those places, you're spending too much time or energy in one particular area of your life. And so what do you do then, Eric, If you're you're you're taking stock of these things, you're looking at those roles, and you find that you're out of balance. Um, I think that I then look at how can I change the balance of that in my life? UM,

moving forward. And so I I use I use an application called coach dot me that tracks like things that I think are important for me to do. UM. You know, I track whether I'm meditating every day, A track whether I'm exercising every day. I have UM things in there about doing gratitude, about connecting with friends, about UM. I used to have something in there about reading something inspiring, which is not a problem anymore. UM, you have quite

the really extensive reading list. Yes, it's and it's just it's a it's a lot. Yeah, I mean because I'm I'm very diligent about about preparation and so it's just takes a lot of time. But so I use that

app app to just sort of track things daily. So, for example, if I had said that one of the things, if I looked at one of the roles and said, oh, I'm not being a good son and I need to spend more time talking to my mom, I would put, you know, talking to my mom on that list, and then every day when I look at that list, I would see it. Now that's not saying I'm going to do it every day, but it gives me a mechanism

to sort of see am I doing things. I have found once I started actually tracking things like that using you know, you can use a calendar, you can use a piece of paper, you can use an app like Coached at Me. There's another one out there, very simple called Joe's Goals that I love. But once I started tracking that, it was very That was one of the things for me that made being consistent with these things a lot better and also allowed me to be off

of autopilot a little bit more. And I think the last piece and I'm kind of going on a long spell here would be just to spend time thinking about how I spend my time. Yeah, that's that's very meta. Yes, spend time thinking about how you spend time. I like that exactly. But just thinking back and looking at okay, over the last you know week, what where? Where? You know? Not I don't get to the point where I track every hour, but I try and look at it and go, okay,

what what did the last week look like? What where did my time go? Where's my time? Generally going on a daily basis, And and that is as uh Anie Dillard said, you know, the way you the way you spend um a day is the way you spend your life. I mean, I didn't get that exactly right, but now what the point is there? Yeah, the basic idea is it's these you know, it's these little moments. It's the day by day how am I? What am I doing today? What am I doing tomorrow? That all adds up over time.

And so if we take my experiences, if we take care of that, a lot of the bigger things work themselves out. Yeah. And you also mentioned something as you were talking about how you go about being more self aware in your own life that we we talked about on our run table last time, and which is such

a big thing for both of us. It's meditation and for me, uh in talking about tracking devices, UM, I use it a fantastic app called inside Timer that our our friend Casey was also a guest on that round table, introduced me to nearly two years ago. And I just passed my five days using inside Timer, which is kind of a fun little you know. I'm not trying to brag or anything because like, look at me, I'm a

meditation superstar, because I'm certainly not. But it's just been an invaluable tool for me because having this thing that that I can check in with every day, I log on, I start my meditation and and it's fun to see the statistics. It's fun to say, Okay, you know you've reached you know, thirty days in a row, or you've

been using insight timer for five days or whatever. And I like having that as a barometer for me to be able to look back and say, Okay, I'm doing great or you know what, I'm off the wagon a little bit here. Um you know, I'd like to be more diligent there. I'd like to miss fewer days. Yeah, I love I love insight Timer. I think it's really great.

My problem is that I don't always like I went through a period of time where I was using headspace, UM or some other meditation things, so I didn't always put everything in it. So coach dot me is the one where I track. But yeah, I love to go into you know, just an insight time or alone. There's something like you know, a hundred and fifty hours of meditation, which is just like wow, yeah, that's amazing. So yeah,

I'm I'm just a believer in accountability. I think it's helpful and um self accountability can be helpful if you if you put some of those things in place. It just helps me to see it. Yeah, well, that's how excellent.

So Eric, I know, I don't know if you've tried to discern this in your own show, UM, and how many episodes you've done on the one you feed, but you know, in the Life on Purpose in my previous show, Radio Enzo, I'm I'm in about a hundred eighty five episodes, I think, and over the course of that time four and a half years, I've tried to discern what are the commonalities of my guest because they're all over the place, you know, they're very wide swath topically of the different

things that we talked about, and and it's always under the umbrella of purposeful living, UM, having a purposeful life, or my old show is about what I called conscious living. Very similar but people that did a lot of different things and they were on the show for a wide

variety of reasons. And what I found interesting, and this is holding up now over time since I first made this, UM, since I was first able to discern this, and this sort of came to my consciousness, was that the two common threads, and almost every one of my guests was number one, travel had some important Uh, it was important in every one of my guest life in some way, shape or form as a motivator or is something that

changed their life or broad in their perspective. And almost every one of them meditated in some way, shape or form. And I would have not predicted that, And yet that's been a common theme going on, and I'm always fascinated, especially and there are people that aren't obvious meditators. They don't talk about it publicly or they don't sort of like, hey, look at me, I meditate And have have you found anything similar? Have you? Have you thought about that? Um?

I have? I think that um uh, certainly a lot of people that have been on the show have been have been meditators. I think one of the other key things I've seen in the people that are on this show is that they have the ability two not let their mood dictate all their behavior. I would say that might be one overriding feature I've seen in successful people is not that they don't have moods. Not that they don't often they're you know, they wrestle with depression or

other things. Um not that they don't feel emotions and have a motions, but the emotions don't become the guiding um, the guiding a lot of their behavior. It seems like a lot of the people that I think I admire the most and the most successful, find someplace between indulging and repressing emotion. They find they find a sweet spot in there, so they're they're pausing before they react, they're

not just reacting to the world as it happens around them. Yeah, I think that's I think that's certainly part of it.

And I think they're also able to look at it and go, I feel like X or Y, but the right thing for me to do is Z And they have a way to then go and do Z um without, you know, because the opposite extreme is you just go into full on repression mode where it's like you just you don't ever, you know, the no emotion gets in and I don't you know, I'm just it's all logic, it's all just and that's not the healthy point either.

It seems the people that certainly that I admire are the ones that find that middle ground where they're able to experience their emotions, but they're also their life isn't run by them, So how do they do that? Um, Well, that's a broad question. I know we probably have, you know, our long discussion on how that is. But you know, in your own life, how have you been able to do that or what are some things that you've been able to to discern from your guests to talk about that.

I think there's you know, I think there's a few things. I think that And this is why you know, meditation features into this. It's a way of getting better at doing this, but being able to get some separation from thoughts and emotions and to recognize that I am not the thought and I am not the emotion. They might be very strong, they might be there, I'm feeling them, but that's not the only thing. And to be able to get just enough distance from that, UM, I think

helps an awful lot with with that. UM. And then I think another one for me is to be able to reference back to what's what's really important and and call on that in the moments where things are difficult. So I'll give you, you know, an example would be, UM, I decide that I want an exercise program. It's really important to me, and you know, it's something I think about and I plan and and you know, kind of the higher me thinks that's a great idea. The wise

me thinks that's a good idea. But now it's Thursday afternoon and I'm sitting on the couch and um, I don't feel like exercising. And that distinction for me is a big one, because a lot of times will say I don't want to do it. I don't want to do it, I don't want to do this, And the reality is that there was a part of us that does want to do it. It's that part of us that says I do want to exercise this, this higher self, this wiser part of me said I want to do this.

It's that I don't feel like it right now. And then I'm like, well, that's just a mood, and moods pass and I and and then going back to what did the what did the wiser part of me think? Um? Yeah, But I think a lot of that is simple learning to give yourself sort of you know this for lack of a better word of command, and then follow through on it. I think that's a muscle to a certain degree.

I think the ability to say I'm gonna do X and then do it is is sort of a I compare it to to a muscle, And so for a lot of us, we don't. That muscle is very very weak, and so the way to build that muscle is to start very small and slowly, but surely, you know, make commitments to yourself and keep them. And as as that progresses, we start to get some momentum, we start to believe in ourselves again, we start to there's a feeling of

inner congruence, inner rightness. I think between when we say I want to do X and then we do it. And so I think it's building that muscle, and the people that I know that are successful, that muscle is pretty well developed. Yeah. Absolutely, it's the old uh, you know, the the neurons that fired together, wired together. A bit of of cliche, but true. Yeah, it is absolutely true. And I totally believe it's a trainable thing. I mean,

I was at one point a you know, destitute heroin addict. Um, so you you can't have much less self control than I've had it a couple of points in my life. So I do believe that these are skills that you can learn and practice. And I think that a lot of us get hung up on things like well, I'm just the kind of person that doesn't I'm the kind of person that doesn't follow through on things, or I'm the kind of person that just isn't disciplined or and

I don't think that's really true. I think those are skills and things that we can learn. I don't think their personality um or character defects necessarily as if we were hardwired one way or the other. Yeah, right, yeah. And there are stories that we tell ourselves based on our past experience, our past conditions, our past emotions, you know.

And I think that I think we talked about this in the round table, these stories that that present themselves at times and we can either attach to the story or we could recognize, hey, you know, that's a story, and uh, I can get beyond that story, or I can rewrite the story, or I can change the story, and right, yeah, yeah, And I think that story element is really crucial, just having that recognition and be cognizant of the fact that it is indeed a story and

it's not just it's it's not a it's not something that's hard word. Yeah. We're making a lot of it up. A lot of our interpretation the world. Some people would say all of our interpretation is coming through some sort of filter or frame or lens. And so if the when we can learn to work with that filter or lens, then life really you know, that's such a critical skill. I think in you know, we want to talk about

living a life that's worth living. That is one of the hugest ones is to be able to learn to work with that filter. Um, yeah, and adjusted to inadjusted in ways that that serve us. Well, yeah, because you know, it's another getting back to some of the science part of it, referencing what we talked to about earlier, you know, living on an autopilot a certain percentage of the time. Scientists also believe that we filter out somewhere between of all stimuli. We have to by necessity, we can't. Our

brains simply can't handle all the stimuli. And so, as you said, if we've got this filter, we can change the filter. We can adjust the filter. We can move the filter. So if we're only pulling in you know, two or three five over here, we can shift the filter to be pulling in a different percentage. We can we can from an intentional standpoint, we can put our attention elsewhere and it's going to bring different results, and it's gonna in the end, it's gonna build a different

life for us. It's going to create a different life for us. Yeah, I've been reading a guy, a Buddhist teacher. We're going to talk to him here in the near future. And he said, you know, he's talking about Buddhist psychology, and in certain schools of Buddhist psychology, thought is considered a sixth sense. It's a it's a sense that you either can that you learn to either pay attention to or not pay attention to the same thing with sort

of sound or site. Right you you might folk gus on seeing and that comes very clearly into awareness, and then you might turn your awareness to hearing and so now you're hearing things more. Or put your awareness in your you know, in your right foot, and now you notice what's happening with your right foot. It's that ability to move that awareness around that I think is is

so helpful. And you know, that whole that whole story based narrative, all the things that are going on in our head that we tell ourselves, that is about all we're aware of most of the time, at least me. You know, when I'm not being careful, I am there's just a constant inner monologue that is like hooked up to like Eric thermostat, like how's it going, how's Eric doing? Is it warm enough? Is it cold enough? Do I

feel this? If you know? It's just this? And and learning to unhook from that, that's the term this guy uses. Learning to unhook from that and and move your attention to other parts other things is a really powerful skill. I love that. I've never heard it framed quite like that before that. It's the thought being a sixth sense and something you can either choose to pay attention two or not. That's fantastic. Yeah, it's not easy, right, I mean obviously certainly, but we've got lots of years of

listening to that to believe in that voice. But it is possible. Yeah, And for me, what made all of this makes sense for me at some level, And it's still a great mystery, and I'll never you know, spend the rest of my life never really quite figuring it out. But it's I remember hearing a number of years back that Okay, you've got a thought, and you're noticing that you've got a thought. Who's the one doing the noticing? Right?

That's it? That changed everything for me hearing that and and sort of grasping that, even in a very small level, it's like, wow, okay, well there's the thought. Who's noticing the thought that just that? That was a huge shift

for me. Yeah, And it's one of those things that's an exercise that we can do often, you know, the more you know, one of the things that I try to talk about living like you know, life on purpose and all that and and not beyond autopilot as I try and stop as often as I can remember to and sort of ask myself like where am I, what am I doing? And why? Like what you know, just that sort of like come right back into the moment where am I. I'm sitting at my desk in front

of a computer and I'm talking to Greg. You know what am I? You know what? Where am I? What am I doing? And why? And that's a great way to a practice mindfulness and practice being in the moment as well as think about am I using my time in the way I want? Why am I doing what

I mean doing? Wow? Eric, that would make a fantastic app by the way, I would that would I would have that on my iPhone or buy like an Apple Watch and and have that pop up, you know, every so often, so that I have that reminder, Like, that's a great idea. Maybe I should do that. I just want a small cut, all right, if you make your fortune through that app, I just you know, I'd like a Finder's fear or something. No, that's a brilliant idea.

I love that. So, Eric, you mentioned a while that, well you didn't tell me a time frame, but I know from your biography that you know, twenty years ago your life is radically different than what it is now. That you were on drugs, you were homeless, you were in a very different place in your life. And I'd love to go back in the way back machine, um, starting even before that, and find out how you got to that point. So where were we born? Where did you grow up? I was born here in Columbus, Ohio,

and I grew up here. Um. I was gone for a few years, uh, you know, in my early you know, late teens, early twenties. But most of my life has been right here. And did you have a happy childhood? I don't think so. Um, why is that? I don't you know? I I could certainly look at um, you know my you know, my parents and their parenting style. And you know my mother has wrestled with depression all her life. Um, so I come by it, you know

a little bit naturally. Yeah, that's that's not an insignificant point. Yeah. You know, my wife struggles with anxiety and different things, and you know, and biologically, as she would say that, you know, some of that comes from her mother. You know, when she was in the one, her mother was struggling with the same things. And that at a at a neurochemical level, that's transmitted from a mother to a fetus. It's traveled, you know, transmitted to an unborn child. You know,

the mental, psychological, and chemical state of your biological mother. Yep, yep, I absolutely, you know I think that came through. Um, you know, my parents were not happy together. I mean, so that a lot of the the usual things I I um, I've examined all that stuff in great detail. Not really, you know, I don't have any blame towards them. I think they were doing the very best they can. And my son will probably look back at me someday and go, well, he was doing the best he could.

And you know we could all say that, yeah, what way, I'm screwing him up? Right now. I don't know, um, but I know that from a very early age as a child that I was UM, I was just an odd kid. I used to sit and pick at the wallpaper at the wall for hours and just like UM, I was a kleptomaniac, like hardcore thief by the time I was like nine years old. UM, I was just always in trouble. I couldn't even tell you why or looking back on it, I don't have a ton of

memories from it. But I was not a well adjusted child. So UM, I did not have I think, a very happy childhood. Well what did a young Eric want to do when you grew up? I don't know. Did you do any sense to? Okay, as I grow older, this is something that interests me. This is what I want to do with my life. Did you know where you were heading, Let's say, when you were in you know, high school for instance, No, Um, nope. UM. High school was a interesting adventure for me. It's kind of the

tale of two two lives. The first couple of years of high school were a disaster. UM. I just my I just never went to class. I never wanted to go to class, and so I was always in trouble, and I was always trying to find a way to be excused from class. And after my sophomore year, my guidance counsel said, like, we're not I'm not going to go through another year of this. You can either go to this thing we have called the Alternative Program, or I'm going to just expel you, but I'm not going

to chase you for another whole year. And so I very grudgingly went to this thing called the Alternative Program, which was a informal learning environment, very small school, about a hundred and sixty students. That completely changed my life. So, UM, I think that the informal learning style is really very much like, let's find out what the individual finds interesting and then let's use that to educate them. Let's, you know, let's do that, Let's work on critical thinking, let's work

on how you think. Let's it's just a very different approach to education than the the usual I'm going to lecture at you until you take this thing in And and so after a few months of being there, I ended up starting a nonprofit tutoring program for inner city children. UM I started a scholarship fund for them. So I just my last two years of high school, I completely flourished. UM I was doing. You know, it was certainly one of the best points, certainly the best point, um of

my life up to then. I mean, I think it was the couple of years where I was really pretty happy and content, and I think I learned a lot of you know, I learned a lot about myself. I didn't recognize it until later, but I think I learned a lot about what makes me happy and content during that time. I think I found a formula that that had that worked to some degree during that point. UM. But then the wheels kind of came off the train

I had. UM. As I was doing that, I noticed what alcohol and drugs were doing to all these kids lives. I mean, their lives were ruined by the by the alcoholism and drug addiction and their families and so UM, I pretty much said no more, I'm not doing any drugs. I'm not doing any alcohol. UM. And I did that through certainly the last two years of high school very much. UM Anti that and UM. After my senior year in

high school, I went traveling for a while. I spent a summer uh in l A. I spent several months off the coast of Seattle. I just kind of took a train across the country, just kind of went out and there there there's the travel part alright, I can check that one off of this episode now travel meditation check check yep. Now, I haven't done as much of it as I would I would like, but maybe everybody

would say that. Um. But I came back from that time and my girlfriend was dating my best friend UM who both were also involved in this organization with me, and I just had no skills to cope with that at all. And somebody one day said, do you want to take a drink? And I was just at the point where I was like, I don't, I don't care. And I took a drink and kind of everything changed

in that moment. I think I was, for whatever reason, I was primed for what happened when I took that drink, because I was very rarely not under the effect of some chemical or other, you know, twenty four hours a day for the next you know, seven years. I kind of just was off. I found it. I immediately was like, wow, I feel like me, um, And so I was off to the races. And that went from alcohol to you know, to marijuana to other drugs and eventually landed me as

a heroin addict. Um twenty four years old. As you said, I was homeless. I was living, I had I was living in the back of a van. Um that the the restaurant owner that I worked at, let me sleep in. UM. He didn't know I was sleeping in it. Um. But I had acces, you know, I had access to the keys, and and I you know, had gotten I just had been arrested. I had a lot of jail time potentially hanging over my head, and UM ended up walking into

treatment and getting sober. So Eric, And the point of your life was there a low sort of low point, the lowest of the low was was your life ever in danger? Oh? I think my life was in danger a lot. Um. I mean from a health perspective, it was in danger. I I weighed about a hundred and ten pounds. I had hepatitis c Um. I mean I was really sick. Um. My life was in danger a lot because I was you know, traveling. You know, I lived on the East Coast for a while. I made it.

I made an attempt to get away from doing drugs by moving to a small ocean town in Connecticut. But it didn't take me very long to find a car and then find a row, you know, get into the inner city. And I was just going into really bad neighborhoods where a skinny white kid like me should probably just not be hanging out. Um. You know, there were lots of situations where I went into houses and I just a lot of stuff I look back on, I'm like,

what on earth could I have been thinking? Um? So, I think I I spent a lot of time in in danger. I don't know if there's a particular low. I mean I think well, I mean yeah, I mean it's accumulative low what you're describing. I mean, you know it sounds like over time. That just doesn't sound like a very I mean, it's not a sustainable existence. Oh

it's no, it's not. And it's you know. The thing that I have said before is it's amazing to me how hard I clung to such a shitty life, you know, Like how hard I just kept trying to to make that work. And when I finally went into treatment to get sober, it wasn't. Um, it wasn't like I decided I wanted I was going to get my life together. I just was out of ideas. I did not I knew I was going to be incredibly dope sick. I you know, the van that i'd been living in was gone.

I was, you know, I had just suddenly I was you know, had a court date coming out. I mean just everything fell apart, and a life that was already pretty well fallen apart, and I was just too tired to sort it out. So I said, I guess, you know, I can go to treatment. I had gone once before and it didn't work, but you know, this time it was for it. And so what worked for you? What was what were the steps that you started taking to get your life back on track? Um? I went to

treatment and I stayed in treatment for a long time. UM. Every time they said we think you should do X, I just said, okay. Originally, I remember I was in in detox. You know detox is like you know, five day type thing, and uh, it's it's what it sounds like. It's simply to get you past that, um, you know, coming off the chemical period. And they said, we think you should go into our day treatment program. And I said, no,

I don't think that's a good idea. And um, and then I went back to my room and I just had one of those you know, in recovery they call him a moment of clarity, um, where I just realized, like, I'm going to die if I go back out there, Like I just knew that it wouldn't work. So I said to them, Okay, I'll go, you know, and I went to the twenty day treatment and then they said, we think you should go to six month treatment after to this, and I said, okay, um, I didn't want to.

And there's a lot, I mean, I could, you know, go into great detail about all these things, but the essence of it was, I think that I just sort of gave in and started doing what I was told would help me to get sober, and I just did it,

um with with a real intensity. I think that once I got a little bit of clean time under my belt, just even in treatment, and once I started to come out of the fog just a hair and I was involved in twelve step recovery, and I just started seeing people who's who would talk about living in life just like mine, and I would see them and they would be living a life that was very different. And I gave me just enough, like okay, and they were like, if you do what I did, you can get here.

And and um, I think that part of me, that part of me that you know, formed a tutoring program for inner city kids or the harder to wake up again and say wait a minute, like I want out. It's not like I didn't want out, you know, periodically

over that whole seven year period. I mean, when you get to the point I get to, all all all junkies do is get high and talk about how they're gonna stop getting high until you're not high anymore than you get high again, and then you talk about what a crappy life it is and how you're gonna stop. And so I mean it's Maslow's hierarchy of needs. When you're you know, on the pyramid, you're the part where where you know, food and shelter are your prime directives. Um,

it's tough to even think about anything else. Yeah, you know, it's what our inner cities, students you know, from poverty environments deal with, you know, when when they don't know where lunch is gonna come from, where dinner is going to come from that night, if the heat is gonna be on when they get home, you know, test scores aren't really a priority for them. Yeah, it's very hard yep, and so that was what you know, that was what happened. I um, you know, basically, I think it was twelve

step recovery that that worked for me. Um. I did drink again after about eight years sober. I went out and drank for a couple of years, and I've been back about eight and a half years. Congratulations. And So at some point, Eric, was there this notion in did you think at some point like, wow, you know what, I've been able to pull myself from this point way down here to where I am now, maybe you know, getting back to those roots that you planted in high school,

those seeds that you planted. Um, I can help other people do the same in some way, shape or form. Oh yeah, I mean, I think a big part of of recovery and a twelve step program is really the idea that there's a um that there is both a responsibility and a real um enjoyment for helping other people get through what you've gone through. UM. You know, it's that working with other people who have the same problem that actually I think contributes to contented sobriety about as

much as anything. It's one of the big things is that idea of helping other people. I do it a little bit differently now, um, it's more through the show and stuff. But yeah, that's a definite And that's why I was gonna say. One of the things I think I learned about myself in that period in high school was that I am really happy when I am building something,

you know, when I'm I'm creating something. I'm really happy when that that whole process of And I was in startup companies for years after I got my life together because I love that whole process and I and I love so I love that process and I love when it matters, like when what you're doing with it actually matters. And when I have both of those things, I'm I'm I'm in you know, I'm in a pretty good spot

for myself. And I think many of us go through a period when the building something is the priority and it doesn't really matter what we're building. We sort of, you know, we're energized, we're we're excited by this building thing. And it can be it can be you know, space loo, sprockets, it can be whatever we're building something. Um and then at some point in our life, oftentimes around our middle age, we hit a point where it's gotta matter, It's gonna

mean something. You know, I can't just build anything. I can't make a widget for somebody and get paid for it and be content for that anymore. And so um. You know, Wayne Dyer famously wrote about that and made a movie about it, From Ambition to Meaning, um. And and so was was there a similar shift for you? Were you making things that maybe at the time you were satisfied with and then looking back, you're like, yeah, that that was cool. I made those things, But what

does it really matter? I think to some degree. I mean I had meaning in my life all through that time because I was very involved in recovery and helping other people. And you know, I probably sponsored a hundred people over the years, so I spent a lot. I had that meaning, And then there was the work side

of it. But yeah, when I started a solar company in two thousand and eight, and I think that that was my first attempt to really bring the two things together, bring my work together with um, the things that were important to me in life. Now, there's a lot of reasons why I didn't quite get that right. But that

was my first attempt at it. And I think the show now is the and the associated things that have been flowing out of it is that is that second iteration of where I really locked into, like, here's the thing that I love doing, here's the thing I'm naturally interested in, here's the thing that I think is important, and here's the and I see how I can build it into something. And so I think that's been a progression for me. Yeah. Yeah, it all sort of dovetailed together.

So let's second way over to the show. Then, how did you get to the point in your life where you thought, you know what, I want to start a podcast? Well, how did that work for you? Um? It happened. So I started the Solar Energy Company and we had a few really good years and um, and then the political climate in Ohio changed on us. And solar energy is a very politically um it it depends on political support to a certain degree. It's getting better, but you know,

it's still it's still slowly getting there. Um. And so after about five years of that, you know, I spent as you know, I ended up spending as much time testifying and Senate hearings as I did chasing customers, and I just eventually went like, this isn't it. Like I do think it's important. I think energy is an important issue, but I don't think it's my issue. Um And so I finally said, well, okay, I don't think I want

to keep doing this anymore. And what I started to do, though, is I thought, I'm just going to build an online course for developing solar energy projects. There's a lot of very complicated, um financial things, and it's you know, it's a lot more about the money and the deal structure and all that than it is about the solar. The solar is a pretty simple technology. So I decided I wanted to build an online course to do that. And um, so I started getting interested in how do you how

do you have a business that's online? Because my you know, the solar company was the exact opposite. It was you need to raise huge amounts of capital. You know, the solar projects kind of take ten million dollars and so you got to bring investors in. And then if it was just it was a lot it was very very

capital intensive. And so suddenly, once I started looking into that online course, the idea of the opposite that that suddenly really appealed to me, like, wait, I could just do this, like I don't need anything, I don't need another person, I don't need like I just I. That

sort of appealed to me. And then as that went on, so I learned about podcasting, and I learned about blogging, and I learned about I just got more deep into that world, and at some point I decided I didn't want to do I didn't even want to build a course for the solar energy thing. It just it kind of fizzled out for me. And so I don't know

where the idea came from. I don't know if I thought I'd like to do a podcast, and what's the idea gonna be, or what I remember is just getting this idea to start a podcast called the One You Feed and use that parable and do it with my best friend Chris Um because it would be fun to do and we could spend more time together and I needed help staying off of autopilot. And so I just remember the idea kind of coming and I called him and we met for dinner the next night and just

sort of started. So there wasn't a lot of contemplation. There was no real planning about it. Um I didn't. I didn't quit doing um you know I do. I do some commerce or some e commerce consulting work. I didn't quit doing that. UM, I still do some of it. The balance changes how much of that I do versus how much of the show I do. But I didn't just you know, throw everything away. But as is my tendency, you know, I started a solar energy company kind of in the same way, like I think I want to

do that, you know. And I started a nonprofit tutoring program in the same way, like I kind of want to do that. And I just started and um. And so that's kind of how this happened. It was an idea and I I thought, let's let's start, and we start, and and and as I started, and as we as we progressed, I went, oh, I think there is something here. I think I do want to do this. You know. I learned more about it, and the more I learned,

the more I wanted to learn. Yeah, well, excellent. And so I'd love to know where you first came to hear the parable of the Two Wolves and tell people what that is, because there are listeners that I'm sure don't know the parable. Yes, so the parable is, Um, There's a grandfather is talking with his grandson. He says, in life, there are two wolves inside of us that

are always at battle. One is a good wolf, which represents things like kindness and bravery and love, and the other is a bad wolf, which represents things like greed and hatred and fear. And the grandson stops and he thinks about it for a second and he looks up at his grandfather and he says, well, grandfather, which one wins? And the grandfather says, the one you feed. So that's the parable. Um. I first came across it in recovery and you know, looking at it from the perspective and

addict or alcoholic, it's an incredibly um powerful parable. It makes a ton of sense, and it's very life or death. And your bad wolf is a real he's a real bad dude in those cases. Um. So that's where I came across it and just kind of always stuck with me and like a good parable does. I think it conveys a lot in you know, in a few short sentences, like you immediately get it and you're like, oh yeah, And so it was very it was a very powerful thing for me when I heard it, and it kind

of always stuck with me. And uh, like I said, I don't quite like most ideas. I don't really know where it came from to make a show about it. It just sort of showed up that way. Oh that's excellent. I love that it just bubbled up that way. And so I'm sure when you look back at your own life, you thought, well, you know, there were times in my own life where I fed the good wolf, and there are times in my own life when I fed the bed wolf. Oh yeah, and rather rather extremely in both

cases voraciously probably, yes, yes, indeed and so yeah. And for me, you know, having a simple tagline, having something simple that can explain the sort of umbrella, if you will, under which your show operates is really crucial. It's why one of the main reasons why I rebranded my own show, because nobody knew what an Enzo was and it's like, Enzo, what what does that? What does that mean? And it was too long winded of an explanation, like Okay, life

on purpose. People can figure people, people can figure that one out. That's pretty straightforward, it is. And so how does one go from this idea that oh I'm going to start a podcast. We're gonna give this a try. Okay, hey, this is pretty be good. I like this. I'm I'm learning from my guest um to Hey, we're the the number one ranked podcast in three different categories and iTunes and Huffington's Post calls you one of the best podcasts in the health category of all time. That's fantastic. Yeah,

I don't, you know, I think some of it is luck. Um. I think some of it is Um. I say the luck thing, not not you know, not disingenuously. I think there are a lot of great shows out there, your show being an example of it. So bubbling up out of that and getting picked for some of those things is is certainly I think to a certain degree luck. Um.

It's just that somebody happens to you know. In my case, it was somebody who worked at Apple in the podcast place for whatever reason, decided to listen to it and really liked it, and um, you know, they were a support to us, and and so, like I said, I'm not under the illusion that there's not a lot of other good shows, but have any good show as a prerequisite.

So I mean, I think the thing that I think the success success like that in the external world being named this or named that is you know, you do your best with that and then kind of what happens happens. You can't control it much. What you can control is making a show that you feel good about. You can put everything you have into making something that is great.

And and you know Jonathan Fields, who we you know, we met at the camp that he puts on, he has you know, a line along the lines of you know, there's no better marketing than making a kick ass product. Um. That is absolutely true. And so that's where you know, that was really my was and is my main focus was I want to make the show good. So if I have to make a decision between marketing and content,

I'm going to focus on the content. Um And and the reason I did it was not too um become you know, named as one of the best of two thousand fourteen podcasts on iTunes not iTunes. Not that I'm not thrilled by that, not that I don't love the success of the show, not that I didn't have some secret hope that maybe that would happen, But I was very aware that it was probably more likely than not that it would not that sort of thing would not happen, but that the thing that I was doing I wanted

to do. I wanted to make this show. I wanted to spend time with Chris, I wanted to talk to these people. I wanted to read these books. Um and that I couldn't agree more that that's why I do my show. I feel like I should pay my guests, I should send them a check every week. And I I feel like I'm going to some sort of uh, you know, it's some sort of life class, life university or something. Each week. I'm learning something from every one of my guests.

And and and you know, what I found is that this is a topic that's come up quite a bit of my show over time. Is that and I've really come to believe this axiom is that we do the work, we teach that thing that we most need to learn ourselves. Oh, I agree. We had a guest on as names Justin Sullivan. He's in a band called New Model Army, kind of a I love New Model Army. I have I have thunder and consolation, like saying right over here on myself one of the best records ever made. We have very

similar musical tape. But yeah, in a later song, he has a line I don't remember what album it is, but he has a line that you know, it's uh, always the ones who need save to do most of the saving. And you know that's the same thing. You know, you teach what you need to learn. Yeah, I started the show because I needed it, you know, I needed um I needed to help feeding my good wolf and staying on the right track. And I still do. So

what have when you look back at your show? I mean, have you thought about what have I learned from the show? What have I picked up from the guests? What do you learn from each person that comes on the show? You know? I learning is an interesting word because it's very rare that anybody comes on and says something that I don't kind of know. I mean a lot of this personal development spiritual stuff is not that complicated, right there are you know? There's some base principles to it.

Um So, I think what I get is I just get reminded again and again to to work on this thing, or to focus on this thing or right here something in a slightly different way that drives it deeper into my you know, consciousness. Um So, I think that I there haven't been a ton of times where I've been like completely blown away, UM. But it's more of a gradual I keep keep trying to re you know, I keep trying to hear the same themes UM. I mean

there's been a couple though. UM. We had a guy on named David K. Reynolds who wrote a book called Constructive Living UM. He took a lot of his philosophy from the Japanese psychologist Marita but he the book Constructive Living is about how do you live in in UM? You know, how do you live constructively? It's very similar to what we talked about earlier. You you have a feeling, you recognize you're having the feeling. UM, you come back

to what your purposes. UM, you accept that feeling, You come to what your purpose is, you do the next right thing. It's very simple. But one of the things he said was that when you have your behavior in control, you don't have to be afraid of your feelings. And that really kind of blew me away, because for a lot of my life my behavior was not in control. You know, when we talked earlier, my behavior drove my

or my moods drove my behavior. In a lot of cases, did that lead you at some point and then repress that, repress your behavior out of fear of what it would do if it came out. I think it led me to repress my moods. I was afraid of having certain feelings because those feelings would lead me into very destructive places. Um. And when he said that, it really hit me that, like as I have as, I now know myself much better and I'm not likely to go off on a

bender next week because I'm in a bad mood. Um, I'm not likely to not go to work for three days because I'm depressed. I'm I'm gonna I've got enough history at this point and enough internal fortitude for the most part that I kind of keep walking. And so now I don't have to be afraid of emotion. I can I can wander into that territory a little bit more comfortably than um, I think I used to because I was, you know, trying to maybe get rid of it via drugs or alcohol, um, you know, repressing it,

working too hard, all those things. And I think that that was one thing that you know, really sticks out to me from the show where I where I kind of really went never thought of that. I'm sure there's a lot of others. They're just not coming to mind. No, So when you were saying reminding versus learning, I was

like waving my hands wildly in the air. I didn't want to interrupt you, but I was just like, yes, that's it for me, as you said, it's not a new learning thing, you know, for me oftentimes, but it's remember, forget, remember, forget, remember, And that's the human condition. We remember and then we forget. And I need to be you know, I feel like, uh, you know, I haven't watched in years, but in the

early years, I was a big Simpsons fan. I used to watch the Simpsons all the time, and in sort of late eighties, early nineties when it came on, I remember there was a Simpsons where Homer famously gets sort of hit over the head by a pot over again and very cartoonish three stooges these sort of a moment, and I feel like I'm Homer Simpson. I need to be sort of whacked over the head again and again

and again, and to remember these things I'll forget. I remember, I forget, I remember, yeah, And I do not know why that is the case. But it sure seems to be. I think it's just so much of culturally that we are just surrounded by a very different world and mentality and approach and um, it's kind of swimming against the stream to a certain degree. I think, Yeah, there's a

very strong pull. It's almost like a magnet that's sort of pulling us in these directions, and you just sort of let yourself be pulled into those things, be sucked into the vortex. You're going to be unconscious. And so that's why I think. The other problem is that like this idea that is something out there that will satisfy is is I think patently false. The problem is that

most of those things do for a little bit. Yeah, that's the key for a little bit, for a little bit, and so but for most of us, and myself included, sometimes I don't know how to do it any other way. So that's all I know to reach for, um, And that's the you know, that's the spiritual path for me, is learning to build that contentment inside where I don't have to reach for that thing outside, or when I reach for it, I'm reaching for it in a different way.

It's a it's a very different it's kind of like the idea of being an artist because you're driven by pain versus being an artist because you love to create. Those are very different things, and they're both ways to make art. Yeah. No, that that's great. Yeah, And I think that another part of the equation is and you

sort of reference. This is reframing things. Sometimes I'll have an idea or a concept in my head, but I haven't quite framed it or thought about it in a way that helps me really apply it to my life or sort of gives me this sense of like, oh, yeah, that works for me, Like, yeah, I can understand. I've heard that before, but I never really thought, how is that relevant to me? And so now I have a tool or I have a way to frame something in

a way that's now suddenly relevant to my own life. Yeah. Yeah, And that's why I love great interviews. That's why I love this medium, because we're able to have these conversations where I'll hear you say something, oh yeah, okay, constructive living, you know, okay, and that's it's helping me frame something

in a new way for me. So, so before we run on a time America in our hours flown flying by we're almost almost done here, but we have to talk music because we're both musicians and we you know, we sort of met in the garage, if you will, the garage band of Camp GLP, and you had your guitar and I was sitting at a keyboard and our our buddy Casey was there on base and uh, you know, we had a few of his friends on additional instruments and we played some music together in the garage and

then that was a blast. And I love that you're a guitar player. And then you have people that I'm big music fans on the show. You're a big water Boys fan, for instance, and I've seen the water Boys live a couple of times. I love Mike Scott and everything he's done Mike Scott solo and Mike Scott under

the offices of the water Boys. And I love the fact that you're able to incorporate that element as something that you're passionate about and you're like you had just had Mike Peters of the Alarm Fan was a big fan of back in the eighties. So so, how does how does music fit into all of this? How does music fit into the one you feed? Well, I think that, you know, I think I do think of the show sometimes as a UM it's a reflection of me to a certain degree, like what matters to me and what

am I interested in? And music is one of the biggest, you know, forces in my life of I mean, I think, I think that music has as much healing power, as much consoling power as anything in the world, any spiritual practice or meditation. I mean, it's as big a part of what helps me you to live a life it's worth living as anything else. And so I've been able to, you know, it's been fun to bring that into the

show in two ways. One is, um we try and make two music breaks during each show, and we Chris and I make all that music, and so that's been really fun to have a way to create music and do something with it. UM again, has been a great joy. And then the other one, as you've mentioned, is I get artists on who I feel like their music is particularly particularly helps me feed my good wolf. Not that I just like it, you know, it's not. It's not just that I like the music. It's like, can I

find a way to tie that to the theme. Do I think that they're saying something about how to live a better life. And so the artist that I've had on are ones that I think do that. Yeah, And you know, I just sort of scrolling through your recent podcast and you said, uh, you know, you talked to Mike Peters about marching On in the Face of Difficulties.

I played in the cover band in the mid eighties that covered marching On one of you one of the alarm songs that you know, we're big on sort of college radio alternative at the time, you know, and you mentioned New Model Army, you know, in fifty first State of America and Thunder and Consolation some of my favorite music from that era. It's it's stuff that still resonates

with me today. So I wish we lived in the same town so we can claimed because I miss I. I mean that that I am, and I do have music back in my life by making it for the show and all that. But what I don't have and I miss is um just like we did in that garage, like you know, turning it up and playing with a band is there's nothing quite like it. No, It's a very visceral experience and and something you can't really repeat unless you're in that situation. So we'll have to find

a way to make that happen in the future. Yeah, indeed, and so, um, Eric, before we run out of time here. You also currently besides doing the podcast and you right at times, Um, you also do some coaching as well. Correct. Yeah, I started doing some coaching work. I got asked from a few people in the show, and I was a little bit like, I don't know if I should do that,

and I finally decided to do it. And as soon as I started doing it, I went, oh, wait a minute, this is very much like sponsoring somebody in a in a twelve step program. And I've done that, you know, like I said, probably a hundred times. So I suddenly realized I was very comfortable doing it and really like doing it. And so far the feedback from clients has been really really strong. They really, I think, are getting a lot out of it. Excellent. And are you taking

new people into the program right now? And how does that work? If so? Um? Yeah, I am we are. I've still got I've got a couple of spots open right now. A couple of clients just um, you know, ended their time and so if you go to one you feed dot net slash coaching, you can get the information there. Cool. You said something earlier, Eric that I just I'd love to sort of as one of my final questions here get an answer from you said you were talking about, Well, I don't know if that's my issue.

And we're describing, you know, back doing businesses online and finding our way into the podcast. What is your issue these days? I think it's you know, how do we how do we live better lives as humans? How do we you know, how do we live a life that has as much meaning and purpose and contentment and um, you know, minimize the amount of suffering that we have in lives. I think that's what really matters to me. It's what I've always been interested in. Um So, I

think that is my that is my issue? Well, and how do you do that? On a daily basis? I meditate, I talk to people when something's bothering me, and I stay close to ideas that remind me that it's not all out there, that what's happening inside of me is really the primary way that my life either has meaning or doesn't or has a has a has a feeling that that's what spiritual means to me. Just that I'm looking inside for things. So I try and do things

that help me. Remember that that helped me wake up from that trance of Um, you know, it's all about you know, am I good looking enough to have a nice enough car? Do I have a nice enough money? Do I get to travel enough? You know? Waking up from that dream that that's where happiness lies. Yeah, that's excellent. Remember forget, remember forget Yep, it gets back to that. So what's in store for you? What is? What is? Uh? What's the next year hold for you? And hold for

the show? What do you have planned? Um? Well, you know, first is just to keep doing the show because we love doing it. We're also starting to work on an online program that will bring some of the things that we're giving people through coaching to a broader audience. Not everybody can afford to hire a personal coach. I mean, I think I'm extremely reasonably priced, but not everybody can

do it. And so I think that I think there are real we talked earlier about there are real skills for how you become the kind of person that can can come up with an idea and follow through and execute. And I think that's very much a skill based thing. So I'm working on some training that will help people to do that. Excellent, and people can find out more about that as it develops. That at when you feed dot net, yep, exactly excellent, And you're on social media Twitter, Facebook,

where else can people find you? Yeah? Twitter at one you feed, and we're on Facebook. If you search for the one you feed, you would probably find us. We're not real active there, but Twitter is where we primarily are, and then you know the website. I mean, I think

listening to the show is the main thing. Yeah, well that's great, Eric, I really really enjoyed having a long, in depth conversation with you and getting to learn more about your life and the show and being able to flesh out some of the concepts that we touched on originally in our round table. And uh, this has been great and please keep in touch and hopefully we can do this again sometime. Yeah, thanks so much for having

me on. It's it's great to talk with you. I love you know, I just love listening to You've got such a great radio presence that it's just very fun to to talk. Well, thank you very much. And folks, if you like what you're hearing here, would do this about once a week. It's called Life on Purpose, and you can find out more about the show or listen to additional episodes of via the Life on Purpose website at Life on Purpose show dot com. You can also find us on iTunes, the Stitcher radio app, or all

around the web. Until next week, I'm your host, Greg Burg. Take care,