Amy Clover

our thoughts don't strengthen or empower us. We tend toward negativity, self pity, jealousy, or fear. We see what we don't have instead of what we do. We think things that hold us back and dampen our spirit. But it's not just about thinking. Our actions matter. It takes conscious, consistent, and creative effort to make a life worth living. This podcast is about how other people keep themselves us moving in the right direction, how they feed their good wolf.

Thanks for joining us. Our guest today is Amy Clover, founder of Strong inside out dot com and the driving force behind the two thousand fourteen Strong inside Out Tour. Eight years ago, she was battling depression and o c D, and after a near suicide, checked herself into the hospital. Now she helps other people take back the power to fight their own demons through fitness and positive action. And before we get to the interview, here's a quick message

from Eric. Hey, everybody, I wanted to let you know. Over the last several months, I've gotten requests for whether I work individually with people, and up till now, I have been saying no to that. But I'm gonna start working with a few select people on feeding your good wolf, whether that be thing is like behavior change, mindset change, or just generating ideas for how to move forward in your life. So if that's something you're interested in, dropped

me a line at Eric at one you feed dot net. Thanks. Hi, Amy, Welcome to the show. Hey, thanks so much for having me. Yeah, I'm really glad to get you on and and to explore some of the things that you've built and some of the ideas you've come up with around strong inside out. So before we get into that, though, i'd like to, as we always do, go through the parable. So there's a grandfather who's talking with his grandson in life and he says, there are two wolves inside of us that

are always at battle. One is a good wolf, which represents things like kindness and bravery and love, and the other is a bad wolf, which represents things like greed and hatred and fear. And the grandson stops and he thinks about it for a second, and he looks up at his grandfather and he says, grandfather, which one wins? And the grandfather says, the one you feed. So I'd like to start off by asking you how that parable applies to you in your life and in the work

that you do. I think it directly resonates with what I do. I um over its strong insight out I help people overcome struggle, namely depression and anxiety with the use of fitness and positive action. So it's all about the wolves as far as what I do UM, as far as like fitness goes getting healthier. There's the you know, the the wolf that that cries for you know, binge eating and junk food and and staying still all day long.

And then there's a good wolf who cries for you know, movement and healthy foods, whole foods and all of that kind of stuff. UM. But as far as depression, I mean, that's it's it's almost um literal in that sense with the good and the bawd wolves there. But I think that the key thing is that a lot of UM kind of personal development bloggers, I think UM misjudge is that it's not necessarily about starving one wolf and only feeding another. It's about paying attention to them both, but

knowing when to feed each one of them. If that makes sense. Yep, there's something there, even in you know, the things you describe binge eating or or any uh you know over drink or anything saying any of those things, there's something that your emotions are trying to tell you. Oh, definitely, definitely, And if you starve that wolf, it's gonna be really hungry one of these days, and it's going to come

back to the vengeance. Yep. So maybe you could tell listeners a little bit about your about your story to what sort of led you to where you are, and then from there maybe we can talk a little bit more about the methods and approaches you take to helping

people get healthier again. Yeah. Sure. So when I was growing up, I was kind of ruled by bad wolves, and UM, I grew up and I was diagnosed in high school with clinical depression and obsessive compulsive disorder, which is an anxiety disorder UM and I it was already made fun of. I was kind of a nerd in school, and I just was really shy. I've always been kind of awkward, still am proudly now though, UM and I just I didn't want to bring any attention to myself,

so I wouldn't talk about it. I refused to acknowledge that it existed. I hid my medications away from people. I didn't want to believe that it was true because I didn't want to be so different UM with with all of these diagnoses. So I had held it inside, and I held it inside and I didn't seek help. And then it just exploded UM when I was in high school and I rebelled and UM I started lashing out of teachers and not my friends and at other kids and that kind of stuff, and and it just

kind of went in a downward spiral. I started to self medicate, and I started to seek UM love and all the wrong places, getting into the wrong kinds of relationships for the wrong reasons. And I just reached this point in my early twenties where I just didn't want to UM fight anymore. I just didn't feel like it was worth it, and so I tried to give up. And I was hospitalized for threatening to take my own life back in UM two thousand five UM. And it was when I was thrown into that hospital, and I

didn't really know that I would be thrown into that hospital. UM. But I am not the biggest fan of being told what to do. UM. And that's all that you're that's all. That's all that happens in a hospital like that. You're told when to eat, when to be in group, what you eat, when you take medications. You don't have a say in what medications you take or if you take them at all, UM, all of those kind of things.

And I just realized, Wow, I have all these choices that I make every single day outside of this place, and I feel like I don't have any control over them. When I have complete control over them, I might as well try to make choices to make my life better instead of just saying that, oh, it's not worth it, Oh it's this life sentence, I'm it's not worth fighting. Instead, I went and after that hospital, I did devote myself to really turning my life around. UM. And it took

a few years to actually find something. It worked for me because there was a lot of failure in in that initial trying. UM I kind of just roller coastered up and down, and UM I finally found fitness and it was the one thing that could really helped me consistently make progress. UM while working with my therapist at the same time with cognitive behavioral therapy, UM, so I

started thinking more positively. I started catching my my negative automatic negative thoughts in their tracks and and rewiring them. But the fitness was what really helped me to almost form this discipline to keep working on myself and not give up on myself. You were using therapy, um, you were in fitness. Were you tell me about medication? Were you on medication at that time? Did you? Did you? I mean, I'm just I'm always curious about that as

a fellow depression stuffer. And if you don't want to talk about you don't have to. But I'm just kind of curious how that route played out for you and the role it's played. I'm a totally open book as far as this stuff goes. I'm I'm gonna discuss my full story on Strong inside out with all the integritty details. UM. If you guys want to read that, it's strong inside out dot com slash about UM and it's just um. I did, in the very beginning do it with medication.

And I'm actually not of the thinking that, you know, all medication is bad. I think it's really great for some people to get to a foundation, to get to a base where they can start taking action to change their lives, because they was seriously depressions so crippling that to get out of bed was my goal for the day at the very beginning. To to to make eye

contact with somebody was a goal for the day. And I think your laugh because you know how that feels right just to have that one goal be so just astronomical and overwhelming. UM and just I don't know if um, I don't know if a lot of people know what it's like to feel such that that that crippling sense of depression, of just not being able to get up. And I think that medication is a tool to be used wisely, not to be relied upon, but to to get you to a point where you can start taking

that action and hopefully you won't need it forever. But some people, honestly do it seems to be something that has I have been involved with longer than I thought I would, And even though being really healthy and other respects, there just seems to be a big difference between taking it and not taking it, regardless of exercise and all those different things. But everybody's got these different different approaches

that I was just kind of curious. So my first question would be, you found fitness and we're really into it. Had you been into it before? Was it ever something that had been part of your life and you you liked it and then you came back to it, or had you previously been like, oh, I hate working out? I mean, what would be your relationship with it been in the past? Um? In high school and kind of growing up, I UM, I lived in northern California, UM, so I was kind of active in that we were

outside a lot. But when I got into high school, I kind of became this like kind of cyberpunk kid and I didn't really like all the jobs were the ones who made on of us, and all the people who did sports were the ones who made fun of us. So I didn't want to work out. I thought it was stupid. I didn't want to be involved with the people who were working out with me, if that makes sense.

UM and so I actually did do a few sports in my freshman year, but they really tailed off towards my my UM sophomore, junior years, and um they were completely non existent in my senior year and throughout college. UM but so I hated it because of what, um the connotations that came with it, the kind of people who were involved with it. But um, but I don't think that that was fair either coming from me at that age. But I started um working out again because

I was UM. I originally moved to l A when I was nineteen to do acting, and um so, as an actress, if I'm not a size double zero, I need to lose some weight. So I went into the gym and I worked out. You know, I used to say it was for the wrong reasons, but I don't think that there's any wrong reasons to start moving your body. So I kind of take back all of the times

I've said that. Um So, I did start moving my body, but I wasn't fueling my my body correctly, and UM, I just kept going through these cycles of working out too much, burning myself out, and then leaving it for months on end. And then picking it back up and

doing the same thing over again. Um, when I really started fueling my body with what it needed, and when I really started taking care of a lot of the kind of negative mindset I had around eating as well, Um, that really helped me to get more consistent and to find workouts that really I loved. And so is that Is that a big part of it? Do you think to continue to try different things to you find the workout that clicks for you? Oh? Yeah, for sure. I hope no one else's journey is as long as mine

for funding things that work. But it really is about trying all different things. Because I tried yoga way back at the beginning of like my discovery of fitness, and I was like, okay, it's it's pretty good. I liked this one teacher. But then when he disappeared off the face of the earth, I I didn't do yoga for years, and I picked up again just a few years ago, and I fell in love with it and now I

can't get enough of it. So you have to find that thing you just keep You have to keep trying, go by as many group ons as you can, right, right. So you talk a lot about change that. Obviously, in order to to to move from that place of being really depressed and unhappy with ourselves, we have to we have to make change. And you talk a lot about how that change has to come from us. And you've got something that you say, the truth of changes that a no one's going to do it for you and

be there is no magic pill. Yep, it's so true. Sorry guys, Well I I you know, I love that because that's I'm certainly always I'm skeptical of anything that sounds like a magic pill. Um. And so but what what you've got and what I really liked when I started looking at your stuff is it's a very no nonsense, like you're just gonna have to go do this stuff, um, whether you feel like it or not. But what are ways that people can who are really stuck? How do

you get going? You talk about momentum. It's it's another thing that this show talks a lot about how once we're moving. It's it's pretty good, But what are ways that people who are really stuck get moving? That's actually the main struggle I find in people who read Strong

inside Out is just taking that first step. Um, That's what I wrote make this your moment about But um, we're specifically I have this strong Inside Out boot Camp, which is my workout program specifically for people who struggle with depression or anxiety, and it's just it's it's as soon as people start there like how do I get started?

Please help me get started? And since I'm a personal coach in there, it's it's really exciting getting these people to realize that they can take those steps and that they can develop this consistent exercise program. But what I usually tell them is on their very first week, if they're really struggling, I'll just say, look tomorrow, I want you at this time of day, um, whatever time of day is best for them to get up and do ten minutes of movement, usually the workout that I have

programmed for them. So do ten minutes of this workout. However many sets that ends up being. And when you get to ten minutes, you either can stop or you can keep going. It's totally up to you. The workout counts if you just do ten minutes and that's it, and then email me afterwards. And usually people will come to me after that ten minutes is done be like, oh my gosh, it was so much fun after the

ten minutes. I really struggled in the first five, but after the ten minutes it was great, and I kept going and I felt really good. I finished two sets. So it's usually just challenging yourself to just ten minutes, because with exercise, it usually takes about that ten minutes to get over the hard stuff. So your body's processes are kind of you know, getting used to all the excess oxygen, all the extra effort that you're exerting, and it takes about that ten minutes for your body to

chill out and just go with the flow. Yeah, that first ten minutes is it seems terrible no matter how in shape or not terrible is the wrong word, but difficult, no matter how in shape. I mean, you know, when I could run, you know, twenty miles, the first two miles were still like, oh god, they were the worst two miles totally, totally and uh and I always, you know, I think about that now where I'm like, well, if you never if you never run more than two miles,

you never get to the good part. Yep, exactly. There's lots of workouts out there, so what's what's the difference about the approach that you're taking with people. Well, there's no program that's specifically for people who struggle with depression and anxiety. And I think that people who meet these very specific struggles need different kinds of workouts in a different kind of approach than any other program out there.

Most of the programs you'll find out on the market right now in the fitness industry are too overwhelming there, you know. The a lot of them are those quick workouts. They're they're like really intense, and they're not maintainable and uh, the food programs that go with them or can actually worsen some people's anxiety. There's a lot of people in our program that have recovered from eating disorders and those kinds of things. UM, So my primary focus is mindset

and just getting you moving. It's not a weight loss program, though some people are using that because we tailor everything to your goals because of the personal aspect with the coaching and the Facebook coaching and UM weekly group coaching as well or bi weekly excuse me, but it's really about UM giving you the right kinds of movement that will help destress you and de overwhelm you. So, for instance,

for the depression group, because there's two tracks. There's the anxiety and stressed out group and there's the depression or

lack of motivation group. So for the depression group, it's just about getting started and not overwhelming with too much movement, too much stress, because if you do things like I love HIT workouts, which is high into excuse me, high intensity interval training, and it's really like short burst quick activity, really sweaty, like really just panting and like sweating out your eyeballs. But that is not the best for people in this program, especially since most of these people are

just starting out. So it's usually just um, very simple uh strength training, maybe circuits, um, but not going too fast, to tell people to just go with their own pace, take as long as it needs to go, and um, really focusing on the breath as well. Let's talk about mindset for example, because you're your your site is strong inside out, so you know, exercises sort of at least on the surfaces outside in right, I do something on the outside and it makes me feel better inside. How

do you help people from the inside out? What are the what are the pieces inside that you're working on? What are what are the keys there? There's monthly mindset challenges. Our support system is really unique in that it's crazy supportive and they're for you wherever you need it. Um. We have the the Facebook group coaching, which we're very active in and most of our members are very active in there as well and very supportive. It's a completely

positive and safe space. We have the personal coaching aspect, which is done over email, but it's it's completely personalized so that people are going after their own goals with the help of the boot camp, so it's them first,

boot camp second, if that makes sense. And then we also have bi weekly group coaching calls where they get to meet each other and I get to talk to them face to face and remind everybody that I'm not a robot, that I'm a human being and I'm there for them, and that each person in here is there for them to um. So the support aspect is really

really wonderful in tailoring that to a specific mindsets. But also we have mindset challenges in there that change every month, So every month you'll get a mindset challenge in For instance, one of them is meditate five days a week and that's for the anxiety track, and that's just to kind of build up a good habit, and a lot of these things you will not are not a lot of these things. Some of these things you won't relate with.

Some of these things will not help you personally, but at least you gave them a shot and you tried them and you found out they don't work for you, So hopefully a few of them will work really well for you. UM And that's what we aim to do through It's it's a six month program, so you get six mindset challenges altogether, and so it sounds like a big part of what you think is important to making changes that accountability and support, accountability support and just habit.

Really focus on habits, not so much just you know, one thing for you know, this week, and then something else next week. What do you recommend for people when they are we get moving, We're doing a few things, but inevitably those days come where it's like, I just you know, I don't want to do this, all right, you know I don't. I'm really I'm really battling with doing the thing that I know is good for me.

What sort of thought process do you go through, um or or you recommend other people can go through to kind of get past that stuck moment where they're really whether they're really wrestling with sort of falling back into those older patterns, or not wanting to get out of bed that day, that sort of thing, a honor it with a break or be have that source of support behind you so that when you feel like that, you can reach out to those people and say, hey, I'm

really struggling today, this is what I'm feeling. Tell me something. And either they're gonna say, hey, it sounds like you just need a break. You've done this many days in a row, and so just take a day off. Let's go get coffee or something, or they're going to say, no, you need to get up because you know you're going to feel X, Y and Z way if you do. And these are your goals and just put them out in front of you. Having that support system, it really

is so key. I've heard you talk in other places. I think it would be safe to say that UM depression or feeling bad is not like eliminated from your life. How do you what's that like for you today and how are you able to deal with it better now than you were before? Well, what I struggle with clinical depression so it's always going to be here. It's not anything that I can make go away completely. If I

said that, I would be in total denial. And so that's one thing that I think people come to my site and they don't realize is that I still struggle. I still struggle every so often, a few times a year, I'll go into these depressions. I just went out into one in the fall, and I was honest and I wrote about it. But the difference now is that I don't let it rule my life. I don't make it. I don't let it make decisions for me. I don't let it keep me from living a life that I

want to live. I live in spite of it. So that's what I hope to help other people do too. Um. And when it comes around, I really do honor it. I don't try to, you know, I don't. I try not to feed that wolf so much. You know, I don't like dwell in it. Um. I know. I'll do a good cry every now and then, But then when that cry has done, I'm like, well, that was good

time to take action and start moving forward again. Time to do the things that I know we're going to pull me out of this faster than if I'm I just sit in my house and dwell in it. So I'll call my friends I have. I have a wonderful support system. Is so grateful for I pull out my gratitude journal as I say something I'm grateful for. Um, I'll go to the gym, or I'll go I don't actually go to the gym. That's that's kind of a lie. At What I do when I'm in those um down

points is I'll go for a run outside. That really helps to reroute me into grounding myself in the in the good. Um. But I have all of these tools on my tool belt. Now, that did take a few years to kind of get there. But that's what I'm hoping to help people do for themselves too. You have a line that says it's beyond important to realize that you don't have to be living the perfect life to be happy. M tell me what you mean by that, Oh, exactly what I just said. I don't. I don't live

a perfect life for sure. I mean I I I fail sometimes, I get depressed sometimes, but it doesn't mean I can't be happy in the middle of it. Failure doesn't have to be this life shattering event. You know, depression doesn't have to be this life shattering event. You can still be happy in moments even if you are feeling that depression. It doesn't have to have this hold over you. That wolf doesn't have to devour you every

single day, every single moment, you know. UM, So I think that that's it's just about really choosing the life that you want to live and whatever else happens to you, because you can't control everything that happens to you, just react accordingly. That's great. So you talked about UM making your own motivation. So we've talked a little bit about using UM you know, people to support you and do all that, and you talk about making your own motivation.

And then there are two other concepts that you talk about with that. One is the resistance and the other is the wall. Can you explain that or you know, unpack that a little bit more sure? So, the resistance is something that we come up against a lot, so

a lot of you. If you, if you guys are struggling with getting moving or or getting past a plateau or something like that, then you're up against a lot of resistance because you know that you need to change the way that you are right now in order to get a different result. Right, but that change is massive. Any any change like that is massive that that's going to get you to you know, a body change, of mindset change, um, anything like that. So the resistance that

pops up in you is completely normal. But it's all about just becoming aware of that resistance and breathing into it and not necessarily fighting it, not like pushing it down, pushing it away, but really just honoring what you're resisting, why you're resisting it, and then doing it anyways. Just going for it and and knowing that it's gone has probably suck, and that's totally cool, but just go for it. You owe yourself at least to try. UM. And the

wall is very much like like the resistance is. The wall is just something that it's just really really basically intensified resistance. Walk me through in in your own head. So you know you're in one of those low periods for you, and there's things you know that are good for you, and you don't feel like you know you you you come up against that resistance, What what goes

on in your own head? What do you tell yourself? Well, first I acknowledge it, so it's really important to acknowledge it and not pretend that nothing's there, that nothing is keeping you back besides yourself. But it's something that a lot of my friends tell themselves, like the only person holding you back is you, and that's true, but it's also like, hey, tell you're really resisting, Like, go a little bit deeper into that and you'll find that resistance there,

just like a block right in front of you. So what are your resisting and why? Is something that I constantly ask myself. I like to do a lot of questionnaires with myself. So what are you resisting and why? Um? What are you what do you see in your future

that that's causing all this resistance? And then I usually I'll sometimes i'll journal, but usually I just think it through or I'll talk it through with I'm a huge fan of therapy and I think it's great for everybody, So I'll talk it through with my therapist or a good friend of mine or my husband and just um really work it out, UM down to the detail of why I'm resistance is usually fear, So what I'm scared of? Um?

And uh, why I need to take action anyways? And if this is particular action is really causing a lot of resistance. Is there another action that I can take that would get me the same result? So I'm really analytical when it comes to that kind of stuff. UM, But usually I need somebody else to help me through that. I need the assistance of like my husband or a friend, or a therapist or something. Said that resistance for you is usually some sort of fear that you find inside.

Can you can you give any examples of what those what those might look like, what those might be. I'm just I really think it's interesting for somebody who has UM. You know, you've you've you've found a way to overcome that that stuck spot. And I just think it's really interesting to see what it's going on in people's heads that have the ability to do that. Oh thank you. I think that the fear is fear is the main motivation behind most resistance, behind you know, most people's lack

of motivation to change UM. And I think that it's you know, we can go through an example of maybe you're afraid to take that first step into moving your body because you're afraid of how much work it's going to take, UM, because what if you fail? And You've done all this work and it was all for nothing. But the thing is that you owe yourself that shot.

You owe yourself at least to try um to see if it works, because who knows you could, you know, discover all of these things that make you really happy by just trying. I mean, life isn't meant to be sat at a desk and waiting waiting for somebody to change your life for you. Life is meant to be an adventure. It's really meant for you to go out and ask all these things and find out what doesn't

work for you. And that's going to mean failure, and it's gonna hurt so bad, but it's gonna be awesome because after that you're gonna learn what is going to work for you. But in order to learn all those things, you have to go try it. You have to go do it for yourself, because no one will do it for you. Another line that you use it I really like, and I think it's a little bit it's probably slightly intentionally provocative, but it's a great line, which is a lot of us need to grow up in what ways

did you need to grow up? I really grew up when I started taking responsibility for my own life. I think a lot of people get stuck in and it's part of the depression mindset. To man, it's just that you get stuck in this place where you think it's not fair and that you shouldn't have to deal with this depression. You shouldn't have to deal with this disorder. Not everybody has to deal with this. Why am I

going through this? And then that causes a lot of negative actions that make your life worse or keep it exactly the same in this dark hole, and it's I started saying, Actually, I wrote about this one where I was talking with my friend and I had just recently gone through a really horrible breakup, and this was right before I really changed my life for the better. And I was just crying to him one day and I said,

I'm just so tired of being the victim. And it just looked at me and just kind of stared at me, and I was like, I think I'm making myself the victim by not choosing not to be one. And that's what a lot of us do. Is by you choosing not to be, you know, the hero of your own life, you're choosing the victim role. So yeah, us gently, lovingly. I'm saying, some of us need to grow up, but it's not easy, and I respect that it's hard for

a lot of us. It was really hard for me. Yeah, well, I think it's a lot of what you're saying is that it's that to me means m becoming realistic about what's what's really going on, which is kind of some of the you know, the tough pills to swallow, even though there's no magic pill, but that's one of them, right, there's no magic and that it's going to be hard to change and it's going to take effort, and um, I'm the only one that can do it. And I

think that's not childish thinking. That's that's a much more mature way of looking at the world and challenging but ultimately fruitful. Another thing that you recently wrote about was something that you we called three mindset changers to make any situation suck less. Can you talk about what those are? Sure? It's um, I'm big on mantras. Um. They really helped me through a lot of my recovery. They really speak to me and I use them when I work out.

Basically through everything that I do in my life. Mantra helps me through it. Um. So mantra is kind of just like an affirmation that you say to yourself that helps UM to rout you and what really matters to you. UM. So I constantly share them on Strong Inside Out. But UM, this past couple of weeks UM, my rise Up group, which is my depression group UM in the Strong Inside Out boot Camp has been just kind of thrown for a loop. It feels like everybody's going through some major

changes that they didn't necessarily know we're coming. Some people are losing their jobs, some people are you know, breaking up with people. Some people are just just major changes in their life and they're just like not sure how to handle them. It's just really overwhelming and they're doing a great job with it. But I thought that maybe I could write something that would help them to start to UM to view it differently, or or maybe move through it a little bit faster. So UM the very

first one was that the story doesn't end here. So a lot of us that struggle with depression. UM. The one of the biggest risks is UM dwelling, and dwelling will keep us in it longer. UM. So I believe that if you tell yourself that the story doesn't end here. If you read any good book, the story won't end where the hero is just right in the middle of a really big struggle and then it ends. It doesn't. It doesn't end that way, and it shouldn't end that

way for you either. UM. So if you just keep thinking that the story doesn't end here, the hero will prevail. Just keep telling yourself things like that that will help you through it. UM. But also the next one was, UM, the I don't remember the next one. UM, this is your not this is not your forever. Reminding yourself that, UM, this one instance is temporary. It's not permanent. It's not always going to be like the US. There are waves,

the tide will go out again. UM. That is something that helps me a lot of the time if I'm going through a dark period. UM. And then the last thing is which UM is for an extremely psuchy situation. Sometimes we do something that we're responsible for and we end up ruining it, and that's something that's bound to throw anybody into a depression. So say you you cheat it on somebody, or you did something at work that

got you fired, or something like that. UM. The mantra that I'm using UM for to help those people is that this one event doesn't determine my worth. This doesn't make you who you are. This one time that you did something crappy doesn't make you crappy person. It just means that you did something crappy. So Okay, take a deep breath, apologize, but now move on from it. Don't let it own any more of your life. It doesn't deserve any more of your time. Just move forward. You

don't have to let own you. Yeah, and that can even hold true for multiple crappy things you've done for a lot of us. Right, it's not one, it's a it's a string of crappy things sort of strung together in a period of time. And then, yeah, I think that that's also like something that A is based on. Two is they they call and um, you know, apologize to people in the past that who they've heard. I think that's a that's a really great way to heal. Yeah.

I think it's similar to that idea that um, you know, failure is an event, not you know, it's not who you are. It's a very similar concept to be able to separate our identity of who we are from the actions that we take in the results we get from those, which is very you know, it's that can be a very difficult thing to do. H We're near the end

of our time. But one last thing I wanted to just touch on briefly is you talked about one of the big things it was important to you and that early recovery was was using cognitive behavioral therapy and using it to question those automatic negative thoughts and not asking you to be a counselor in this case. But can you give a quick walk through what that process is? Yeah, definitely. So it's it took me a really long time to make it habit, but eventually did UM. And that was

that with the help of an amazing therapist. And I actually worked with a social worker in the beginning of my my journey with that and she was wonderful. UM. But it's it's really about becoming aware of the negative thoughts that happen, uh, their triggers, what what makes you feel that way, so that you can be more prepared for for those events, and then UM looking for the truth in it or looking for evidence within it, and if there isn't any, then you can talk yourself out

of it. That much easier. If there is some then what can you do to to um, take care of it, to lessen the anxiety that it's causing you. UM. So that's basically cognitive behavioral therapy. And I would suggest that you read more from me because that was a very simplified person of what it is, but just being aware of of what we're thinking and then being able to question the validity of that. Yeah, And it really did help me a lot with mindfulness as well, which is

so just so helpful with depression at all. I'm always a thing that I'm intrigued about, and we talked about on the show a lot, and I'd be interested in get in your perspective on it. Is somebody who deals with depression and recognizes that there's both a need to feel the feelings that are happening and also the need to take action that moves beyond those How how for yourself do you know when it's time to do which

of those things right? Because it's one we can go way too far in either direction where I just wallow in my feeling, or the flip side is you can jump into action and use business and action to avoid things that legitimately need to be dealt with in your life. How how does that balance strike? How do you strike that balance? It's it's like a tight rope walking that So that's a really good question. I think that that it's um it's really hard because I think it's so

personal for me personally. When I feel it coming is when I usually, you know, cut back on the high intensity workouts, cut back on um, you know, saying yes to every single thing that comes my way, which I've actually brought in a lot better about in the past couple of years. But I get really excited about pretty much everything. So UM, I have a problem with that. UM. But I think that it's just just about really again,

that awareness. I'm a kind of a broken record when it comes to this kind of thing, But it really is about that awareness and and asking yourself what you need, what you need to feel the best you possible, what you need to move forward, and sometimes what you need to move forward is just to be here and feel it just for a few days or just for a day even and depending on the how much the depression

is getting you. UM. But then really just staying aware of the fact that you want to do there are things in your life that don't include lying around the house and not doing anything. So so really just kind of watching yourself with an outside eye and and being able to honor those other things that you want to do just as much as what you need. Yep. That's

always such a a tricky balance to find. And but I think that, um, it is that I feel like a broken record too lately with on some podcasts I've been on where I just it's like I just keep coming back to awareness, Like if I'm not aware, none of this other stuff works. I mean, just you can't do any of it if if we're I can't do any of it if I'm not aware of what's actually happening and trying to catch those thoughts, think about them, interrogate him, question them, and then try and think about

what's the direction forward. Yeah, so so true. So we can be broken records together, all right? Perfect? Well, Amy, thanks so much for taking the time to come on the show. Um. I will have links to your strong inside Out pages on our show notes, and I really appreciate you taking the time. Thanks so much for having me. This is a lot of fun. Okay, take care, bye bye.

You can learn more about Amy Clover and this podcast at one you Feed dot Net, slash Clover, and just as a reminder, if you're interested in working with me one on one on feeding your good Wolf, send me an email at Eric at one you Feed dot Net. Thanks bye,