Adrienne Bankert on How to Choose Kindness

don't strengthen or empower us. We tend toward negativity, self pity, jealousy, or fear. We see what we don't have instead of what we do. We think things that hold us back and dampen our spirit. But it's not just about thinking. Our actions matter. It takes conscious, consistent, and creative effort to make a life worth living. This podcast is about how other people keep them else moving in the right direction, how they feed their good wolf. Thanks for joining us.

Our guest on this episode is Adrian Bankerd, an Emmy Award winning national news correspondent with ABC News based in New York. Adrian has covered some of the most historic headlines of the past decade. Adrian calls herself a tour guide, providing coaching and mentoring, some of which she includes in her new book, Your Hidden Superpower, The Kindness that makes you unbeatable at work and connects you with anyone. Hi, Adrian, welcome to the show. Thank you, Eric. I'm so excited

to talk to you. I am really happy to talk with you. Also, we're going to discuss your book, which is called Your Hidden Superpower, The Kindness that makes you unbeatable at work and connects you with anyone. But before we get into that, let's start like we always do with the parable. There's a grandmother who's talking with her grandson and she says, in life, there are two wolves

inside of us that are always a battle. What is a good wolf, which represents things like kindness and bravery and love, and the other's a bad wolf, which represents things like greed and hatred and fear. And the grandson stops and he thinks about it for a second, and he looks up at his grandmother and he says, well, grandmother, which one wins? And the grandmother says, the one you feed. So I'd like to start off by asking you what that parable means to you in your life and in

the work that you do well. It's so interesting because I think I discovered that story within the past year, right before I released the book, right after, and I thought about it because I think that all of us come from baggage. All of us come from, you know, things that have hurt us, things that have disappointed us. And I've seen different times in my life where I've fed the good wolf and I've fed the bad wolf, and it's a battle inside of us. It really is

that six inch game inside of our mind. I think I wrote the book with the intention of a whipping people to see that as they chose kindness, it actually did become the greater good. You know, whenever you give or whenever you give attention to can end up consuming you. And what better thing to be consumed by than kindness. So it's a very very relevant parable. Yeah, I love that idea, and kindness is definitely in the good wolf's camp,

you know, it's a definite good wolf behavior. Yeah, And I mean the story is about which wolf you feed, but I feel like whatever you feed ends up consuming you, yes, And so you'll either be bitten to death by your own negative energy, your temper, unforgiveness, flaws which everyone has, you know, the possibility of becoming or you'll be consumed by the kindness, the generosity, the compassion, to the point where you can't lean into that bad wolf territory even

if you wanted to, because you're so consumed. You know, people who have passion are consumed by their desire. And if we would take love or kindness or goodwill and really drive after it, you know, pursue it like we would anything we wanted, then we could be transformed. That's my honest hope. Yeah. I love that idea that whichever one we feed ends up consuming us. I was a former alcoholic heroin addict, and that's the way I refer to it. I don't think I was feeding my bad

wolf anymore. I think he was eating me, you know, like completely consuming me. Yeah, I totally get that. You say that kindness is a force that energizes us all with passionate purpose. So what's a way for us to get passionate about kindness? I want a bookmarket because you just shared something intimate about your life. I know it's on your bio, but just the struggles you had being an alcoholic, being a heroin addict, I mean not everyone

recovers from addiction, not everyone recovers from heroin use. I mean, my goodness, but at that time in your life, I would think that you didn't have a sense of purpose, right, No, definitely not. Yeah, And I think that all of us, whether we use hard drugs or not, or drink heavily or just are addicted to guilt or addicted to shame, have some measure of void in our lives where we

don't know what we're here for. And so it's interesting because when you're a visionary and you know, I think that some of the biggest drug users are actually some of the biggest geniuses in the world. They're just frustrated dreamers, conflicted dreamers. There's a piece missing sometimes and so like for me, if you don't know what your dream is, if you don't know what your purpose is, you can

certainly help other people find theirs or fulfill theirs. And so when you are kind, you're putting other people ahead of yourself. And so in that journey of discovery for yourself, if you just put that down, not on the back burner, not on the shelf, but just kind of put it in your back pocket and say I'm going to get back to that. I'm going to reach for that in a second. Let me serve this person, let me serve

this group, let me serve this cause. Then you'll actually become that funnel or that channel for purpose, and you'll discover your own Absolutely. It's interesting that in twelve step programs, which is the tradition I got sober in, most of them derive from AA. And there's a line in the AA Big Book around the third step and it says something. I think this word ends a little bit harsh in some ways, but I'll tie it back to what we're

talking about. It says selfishness, self centeredness that we think is the root of our problem. What I realized for me was the root of my problem. Again, if we don't want to use words that are as judgmental as selfishness or self centeredness, the root of my problem was still that all I thought about was how things were going for me, not egotistically like I'm so great, mostly in a I'm a terrible kind of way, but the focus was all pointed back right at me. It was

this collapsing and kindness is this turning out words. It's the thinking of other people, and in AA one of the most foundational is what do you do for other people?

That is one of the most foundational things that enables I think people to turn their lives around, is they get that directionality change and they start looking out well, you know, and a lot of people would say, oh, well, that sounds really good, right, It sounds good to be a giver, like put twenty dollars in the Salvation army pot. But it's more than that. In studying poverty in my family and in other people, what I realized breaks the cycle is when you allow people to bring something to

the table, that is themselves. When they see they have value, their self worth increases. You know, if I'm working on a food bank giveaway or a backpack giveaway for students. I know we're in COVID and so we don't do that as much. We do a lot of virtual giving. But when you're doing that, you're wearing the same T shirt as somebody next to you who might be more successful, more educated, more established, older wiser. Then you become like

on a level playing field in terms of value. And I think that the world is in dire need of knowing that we all are intrinsically worthy, and so it's more than just the giving act of oh, think of others, be nice. It's the I know that I have value and I make a difference and I'm bringing something to the table, and that gives you a sense of purpose, that gives you a confidence that you can keep going,

that gives you hope. Yeah. Yeah. There's a couple different things that you write about that that I would love to touch on, but I'm going to pick one of them to start with, which is really you talk about that if you anchor yourself in kindness as an identity, I am kindness. You say you can remain anchored your authentic identity by being kind. And then you also say,

my first answer to who are you? Is always I am kind And then one more line, which is I may feel lost, yet I have not lost myself when I orient around kindness. I love the dictionary. I love looking up the meaning of words and the root meaning of words, and I was looking up what is kindness really defined? As do you know, do I even really have my own definition of kindness? Or am I missing it?

Maybe even? And when you look it up kind it's used in the same family of words as genus and species, right, we all know humankind. And I thought, oh my gosh, it was like a light bulbing on. We are all kind, we are all meant to be kind. Life is unkind. But I've asked people, I've walked up to them, friends, colleagues, and said do you love yourself? And usually I get this very soft pause, almost like, well, I'm a good person, okay, but you didn't answer the question. And when you ask

somebody who are you? If I ask you who are you, sometimes they give me their name. Sometimes they give me their job description, their title, where they're from, their nationality. But you know, I once heard this talk done by this woman who I know, and she said, you know, just like a diamond, I'm valuable. When you look at a diamond, you know it's valuable. It doesn't have to do anything for you. It just sits there really and

looks pretty. And so I just thought, if we all saw each other as treasure, and kindness causes us to know that the true essence of us, who we really are, is who we are when we're kind to other people, how we treat ourselves, how we love ourselves, and how we love other people. I am very interested in Buddhism and do a lot of studying. And there's that basic idea that underlies Buddhism is that when you see us all as one, or as connected or as humankind, kindness

and compassion naturally arises. Yes, yeah, And I think that being kinder to ourselves and seeing ourselves as kind, Like I am kind. So even if I've lost my job I'm furloughed or laid off. Even if you take all my money away from me and now I'm broke or bankrupt, even if I have to move back in with my parents, I haven't lost my real self. Who I am is still who I am. So what would you say to people who say, well, I think that sounds great, But I sure don't feel very kind. I feel grumpy with

a lot of people. I look out at the world and I'm like, I don't like this person, and this person makes me angry. And kindness it sounds like something I want, but to identify with it sounds very difficult because I barely feel it. I don't think it's based on a feeling. I think it's a choice, just like love. Interview married people, and half of them at any given time are going to say, I don't really feel like being married right now, or I don't feel like this big, fuzzy, warm,

loving honeymoon feeling anymore. But I'm committed to this relationship. I choose this spouse or this partner, I'm in it. I'm not going to leave. And when you have a child and that child doesn't act the way that you want, you don't quit on that child, you know. I mean, I know some parents have quit on their children. I know that, and some children have quit on their parents, But the essence of pure love defies the circumstances. Believe me, writing this book, I realized how much more I needed

to grow in kindness. Writing this book, my kindness was tested more than it probably ever has been. Yeah, And I just thought that was fascinating that my you know, relationships taught me so much more about how I could grow and how I could become more of who I am. In light of studying such a positive, upbeat message, and I think we need to be realistic. There are going to be times when you're unkind while you're pursuing kindness.

There are going to be times you say the wrong thing, but it doesn't mean you're not kind it means you had a moment. You know, if I you know, if you define yourself as a podcast our host, or I can I define myself as a journalist. That doesn't change just because I'm not working on the mic at the moment, or you aren't working on the mic at the moment. You're still a host of a podcast, you just aren't being that host in this very time when we're going

out to dinner, going to Walgreens or whatever. So I think people need to give themselves a break because we are human and we have times where we want to retract our words and we can't, and so we have to forgive ourselves and forgive other people a lot. Do you find that kindness is something that the more you do it, the more likely you are to do it, and the more you are likely to think about it. It grows by practicing it. Yeah, I call it muscle memory,

you know, knee jerk response. I think the problem that we've had as a culture is to say to people be kind, to say to children be kind, But we don't define what those actionable steps are. And so if we have a plan of kindness, I call it my fitness plan, where it's more regimented, and that doesn't mean scripted,

that just means more intentionality around it. You know, what kind acts can you do on a daily basis, On a weekly basis, you know, by the end of the year, can you say that you did something kind for an organization or cause that creates the ability for you to be more consciously kind. Right, So you're really advocating that we need to, in essence, schedule a certain degree of being kind. I mean, there's a certain response that happens as we go about our lives, and we can talk

about that, and we will. But in addition, you're saying that one way to make sure that we're being more kind is to actually plan for it like we would anything else that we actually wanted to make sure got done. You know, I think that this generation, and when I say this generation, I don't mean millennials, I don't mean

the youth necessarily. I mean everybody, everybody who's living in this current generation of chaos, confusion, division, all of this, Right, I think the majority of us are crying out for some answer, some hope, give me something to work with, you know, right, And a lot of that has come about through the fitness and health community. You know, intermitute fasting, know about intermittent fasting twenty years ago, you know, but it's wildly known today and even teenagers know what intermittent

fasting is now. Right. So, but I think there's this passionate desire that people need fed to be better people for everyone, Like how do we become better as a society? And so I think that the intentionality that I write about in this book is so that we would focus on kindness rather than focusing on the problems, because you don't get to solution focusing on problems. You get to solutions by saying, Okay, what is working, what can we

do that's outside of the box, let's brainstorm here. I want to become one of those people, and I believe that I work on it every day that while the chaos is going on, I'm somebody who can keep my head in the game. And that's what everyone who is

kind does. You can stay calm and chaos because you've developed that muscle of kindness, and you actually are the problem solvers and the leaders in the middle of a time where people are going here and there and everywhere and are distracted and losing focus and depressed and sad, and there's no judgment to that. I've definitely battled my

own mental issues while going through this year. But I think that we have to treat kindness as important as we treat innovation in science or getting a master's degree or starting our own business, because if we aren't kind, we're not going to last in whatever endeavor we do. In the book, you have a line that I love, which is I believe it, and I say it all the time that I'm here to bring peace, answers, and

my unique abilities to every situation. And I absolutely love that because I think we can all bring whatever peace we can bring, whatever answers we have, and whatever abilities we have to every situation that we go into, and that if we go into those situations with that intent, it changes things. Yeah, and I think it gives us the confirmation that we are all unique and all needed. You know, I've really been just in this past thirty days,

really pressing into what does family really mean? Because I've always been somebody who's welcomed people into the family, strangers, complete strangers, like I'd be like, yeah, why don't you come with me, and directing them to the kinds of things and resources and people that have helped me in my life. But I'm really asking, like, what does it mean to really elevate the idea of family and unity? We hear about again the problem. But when I recognize how vital I am a part of this greater whole,

then we all start to shine like stars. And so when I bring my unique perspective to the table, when I bring my gifts and talents that are just a little bit different, but so vastly different than anyone else on the planet, you know, I call us kindness makes you unduplicatable because people are striving for being special, or being known, or being significant, and we already are those things.

But if we think that we are disordinary, then we won't necessarily bring the same level of peace and confidence, and we won't have the unifying force that we need that knits us all together and brings us together. Yeah. One of the things I loved in the book is there's a lot of stories about kindness in your life. Yeah, and the vast majority of them have nothing to do with the fact that you are a you know, national news anchor in a position of you know, relative fame

in comparison to most people. But The stories of kindness aren't about that. They're not about I was able to do this great kindness because of this position I'm in. Now, there's some of that, of course, we all have that, But most of your kindness is that you describe are these very ordinary things that anyone can do. Exactly. Yeah.

The only chapter where I talk about it specifically being something that I could do, you know, or very people could do, was when I talk about interviews with different celebrities, But that could be used and translated to a job interview or an interview with, you know, a new client, or a conversation making new connections, whether they be romantic

or friendships or whatever. You know, everything's relative. And I think that kindness is very I don't know what the right word is, but it's it's because I don't want to oversimplify it, but it's something within all of our grasp, right, Like, you know, thanking people for the kind things that they do, you know, somebody helping me get my bag out from the overhead bin is one of my favorite things in the world. Like, I'm so profusely grateful when somebody does

that for me. Thanking anyone for being kind when I see them on the street helping somebody out. Anybody can do that kind of a kindness. The other day, a woman I was getting into an elevator and I thought it was two people to an elevator, but in this particular building, it was only one. And so she was in the elevator with her stuff and I started walking in. I said, can I come in? Because I like to add ask people now, because people are very guarded, especially

in some of these urban environments. And she snapped at me. Read the sign it's one person to an elevator, and I said, oh, forgive me. I thought it was too I stayed so calm. Now. I can't tell you how much growth that is, because I remember a time in my life, many moons ago, where I would have been like, what is your problem? I'm not coming near you, okay, Like I'll go away, like you know, just out of emotional response or whatever. But I understood I was empathetic

with where she was. However, that barking fear, I know that's rooted in fear. It's not personal to me. And so one part of kindness that I talk about is like when somebody else is unkind Because that wasn't very kind. Her tone was not kind. It was very much like to stay away. That doesn't affect me as much because I'm kind anxious of that muscle of kindness in an

everyday capacity. So as you're doing that everyday active kindness, you're actually working it out in your own life so that you'll be ready for those moments when people are less than kind. I think an element of kindness is it being proactive. And what I mean by that is not only do you seek it out, but that the way other people behave doesn't drive the way we behave.

That's a high aspiration, but it's certainly one that I have, which is like, I don't want to treat other people just the way they treat me, because some people, you treat anybody poorly right right at any given Yeah, my bar is a little higher than that for how I want to be to others. Yeah. Well, and that's what I tell people, because often I get asked that in events and speaking events and stuff. They'll say, well, what

do you do when someone's unkind to you? And I say, I'm not going to give somebody else the power to determine my reaction, because then you're stealing your own power. Away, or you're allowing somebody to take that from you. And what true empowerment is is my determination to say no to being just merely reactive. And like you said, it's a proactive response because I've already made the decision. I have already made the decision of how I'm going to

respond in those tense moments. And right now. There is a lot of tension in every facet of life. Yep, there is, And I think it's always important to say, like, not responding doesn't mean you allow somebody to walk all over you or treat you badly, but there are lots of sort of small insults that just don't need a response.

You've got a code of conduct you describe later in the book, and I don't know if it's specific for work, but there's a line in it that I love, and you say, decide that inside every grouchy person is a lovely human. Yeah. Well, yeah, speaking of high bars, Yeah, you know, I've had to work with people and personalities

that are very large in the media industry. I've had to work with people who have not been respected their whole career, and so when you run into people who have felt kind of slighted or you know, just not loved on respected. You realize it, and then you endeavor using kindness not to make up for all the years that they had hard life. You know, I can't dissect

or psychoanalyze all that. My job is to say, you know what, I'm going to show you a little extra respect and honor, just so you know that there's somebody that wrecks recognizes the good work that you do and the things that you do. And I've met grouchy people in and out of my industry. It's in every industry, right, but I've worked with people who in the beginning it seemed like they did not like me at all, and

I just decided. I remember seeing glimpses of hope and people who are really grouchier, you know, and I would say, you know what, but you're a sweetheart, because then they would maybe be the ones that would like take you to their favorite restaurant or their favorite grocery store and show you the things that they would get that you only could get there. Like inside of every person that's hurting or who sends out hurtfulwards is someone who has

a gentle soft spot. I really highly believe that and if we would see that, we wouldn't reject people just because of their harsh or what seems harsh delivery. How do you apply that idea in today's world, where you know, we're dealing with issues of say racial inequality or different things where it can feel really difficult to see some people who seem to believe or act in ways that

seem pretty harmful. To find that lovely human in there, I would say, you know, the people who I've met who could be harmful, it's like any abuse or negative trait. I can't focus on that. I can really only be responsible for myself. In that moment, I really choose to focus more on who I'm going to be. You know. I had a friend who mentioned something about family or friends having these difficult conversations and it turning into a debate, and then asking me, what do you do you know?

And I said, well, are you going to change their mind right now? That's my question? Are you going to change their mind right now? They said no, they're not listening to me. They're just defiant. And I said, well, I know who you are, and that's really the only thing I know for sure. I know who you are. Focus on that. Yeah, I think that's a really interesting discussion to be in these days, because that's in general my approach. My approach is generally like, is this person

going to change their mind? Is anything I'm going to say going to have any effect? And if the answer to that is largely no, then I just try and interact with them in whatever best way I can. I have started, though, with everything that's been happening in a dynamic that we've been having, to wonder is that being too apathetic or is it just wisdom? And I'm not sure which it is, And I know some of it

depends on my motive. Am I not engaging in a difficult conversation that I could have with somebody that might be very valuable because I'm afraid? Or is it genuinely there's no benefit to come from having an argument here with this person? Well? I talk a lot about social media and the book and the positive uses for the tool that it can be, and I think that we have to all be really more conscious of what we say and how we say it. And that can be at a dinner table or on a phone conversation, or

it could be on Facebook or social media. You know what I'm saying, and we can say things that can be triggering, and so again, I think that the focus has to be on ourselves. That doesn't mean that change doesn't need to happen. It doesn't negate the horrific effects of some of the things that we're facing as a society. But I think that individually we have a responsibility to do the inner work and to be more conscious of

what we're saying. And I say this, I think I might have used I don't know if I used a celebrity in this example, but you know a lot of celebs, like they can post on their own page, but some of them have a team of people that have to vet what they say, you know, a publicist or a manager or something like that, or make sure of what

they're saying. And it's like, if you have a question in your mind about what you're about to post, if it could be offensive, potentially, have somebody else look at it before you share it, because maybe you didn't mean it that way, but it could be taken a certain way. And so again, I think I choose to focus on kindness. I choose to focus on doing the inner work in myself,

because at the end of the day. The person that I can control, and that's a strong word, but the person that I have the power over is myself, and that will keep me again at peace and able to keep clear headed so that I can be perhaps a vessel to solve problems that are larger than me in days to come. Yep, that truism of you know, hate was never dispelled by hate. When I look around on social media, I'm like, this is the walking embodiment of that is people from both sides spewing hate, and it

just revving up more hate. You know. Again, I have my positions of who I think are right in a lot of different things and where the real harm is, but almost nobody seems to be Like if you're like, you're an e F and jery and you're an idiot and you're stupid, almost nobody goes a good point. I never thought of that. Thank you for bringing that to my attention. But yet we think that's how it works, but it never does well. There's a wall social media

seems to create where we dehumanize one another widely. And what I have learned about social media is to treat it like it's the initial meeting with someone like This is my handshake now, So whatever I post, this is my first impression with you. And even if I've interacted with other people on the feed or in the comments, somebody, for somebody looking at what I'm about to post, this is their handshake moment that doesn't exist anymore because of

distance and COVID and all that stuff. This is the elbow bomp. So how would you want to be perceived? Every time I post? How would I want to be perceived? Because there's going to be new eyes on it from a first at a cocktail party, and that's how I post. Yeah, you say in the book that your mother used to say to you, Adrian, somebody is always watching, and that that approach, and similar to what you said a minute ago.

You also said don't say anything anywhere to anyone by and large, that you wouldn't want to be broadcast on national TV. Yeah. I think it's an interesting way of looking at things. I'm not sure that like that necessarily applies to some of my interactions with my friends, where I'm sharing things that are going on inside me that I might be like, well, I'm not ready to announce that to the whole world, But in general, it's a pretty good way to look at the world. I think

that hot mics exist all around us today. You know, at one time long ago, you could get away with certain things that you can't get away with, if that's the right way to say it. Now. It's not like I walk around thinking everybody's staring at me. It's like I walk around like one person could see something I'm doing and be affected by it, and not necessarily the right One person could pull out their cell phone and record you, and you're not acting in the way that

would best be representative of who you are. I look at it almost like when you have your friend's kids with you, So you're the one with the children that aren't yours, and now you're the one setting an example. What are you doing that they see you doing that they could mimic that might not best be suited for them. And when you look at it through a child's eyes, you know, when we're around certain people, we actually straighten up and act better. And that's what I see kids

do too. So we all need to just just be the best us, you know, realize that we do make a difference. Everything we do matters, and it creates a ripple effect for good or for bad. Tell me a couple of your favorite stories about kindness from the book, whether it be a kindness that you were able to do, a kindness that somebody did to you, a kindness that you witnessed. But tell me some stories that bring this

point out. One of my favorite stories as I heard about a woman who wanted to get married when I have kids. It's been years and she still hasn't gotten married or had kids, and so someone deer in her life mailed her a package and there was a bunch of stuff in the box. It kind of looked like a hodgepodge of stuff, like they'd sent her the wrong stuff. And she's looking at each item and it's like a boy's T shirt and like a coffee mug that says best Dad Ever, and like a journal with a football

on it, and she's like, what is this? Like this was not supposed to be for me. And she makes a call to the store that shipped her the items and said, I think there was a mistake, and the person on the other end of the line said, no, those are your Christmas presents for your sons and your husband. And she started to cry because what they did was they they said, this is going to be given. You're going to get married, you're going to have kids, and this is your way of seeing it happen. So wrap

the gifts and put them under the tree. And for the first time ever in her life, she wrote to my son, love mom. And she wept because she'd never seen herself as a mom, and she never said that she was a mom. It really changed her life. There's another story in the book that I love about kindness because you say that kindness can be an anchor to us when we're struggling, when we feel lost. I read that quote earlier, but you tell a story about where kindness was an anchor to you when you were going

through a really difficult period. Are you talking about the host story? Yeah, yeah, So for me, I was just telling somebody a facet of that story because literally I was racking up so much debt from having not had a job for a very short period of time. But still, I mean, if you don't have any income coming in,

then you can rack up some debt. Trying not to eat out because I didn't want to put more debt on the credit card, and just seeing the figures and continuing to give responsibly in different ways and be kind and generous. And I had to work at a restaurant. And I remember going to one restaurant and interviewing and the gentleman, the general manager, said, I've never had a journalist asked me for a job as a waitress. And I looked at him and said, that's but it's respectable work.

And then I went home and cried because I just felt like God like what he said. He wasn't meaning to be mean, it was just harsh for me. I think the backstory might be helpful of Yeah, I was making quite a good bit of money in my career before, and you know, something happened, a deal fell through, and so then it was like immediately nothing so going from I was going to be working making decent money, and then the deal fell through and I was making zero. I would either have had to not eat or go

work somewhere. And you know, I tried to get freelance jobs or like pr jobs, and nothing was working. And so finally I got hired as a hostess at a restaurant making minimum wage. And I remember signing all of my employee paperwork on my birthday and thinking, this is the worst day ever, and went home and cried because it wasn't about like being a hostess is a bad thing.

It was about how little I was going to be making compared to what I did before, and how I knew it was temporary, but it was like, this is not the way I wanted my life to turn out. And so I put my chin up, thank goodness for mentors and life and friends, and went into work at

that place. And it was just down the street from the company that was going to be hiring me where the deal fell through, and the woman who was kind of negotiating the deal with me had a lunch reservation like four or five days into me working there, and I thought, oh my god, what am I going to do? Like she's walking in here and she's going to see me and think, what are you doing here? And so I went into the coat closet and I rehearsed what

I would say in response. So she walks in, I greet her with a big smile and I say hi, and just like I thought, she says, what are you doing here? And I said, well, I'm a host on TV and I'm a host here. Let me show you to your seat. And I did it with no shame. I did it with no you know, I just was kind. I was just I didn't bring up anything. I just let me show you to your seat. And she looked at me with these big like her eyes got as big as saucers, and she was like, you know, I've

been thinking about you. I'm going to call you next week, okay, or later this week or whatever she said. But I said sure, and no problem. Enjoy your lunch. And I sat her down and I continued with my workday, and within a week I had a new contract. And I later learned that that woman who now is a friend, went back to the office upon seeing me and said,

we've got to get her something. And I don't know if it was because I was doing what it took, you know, seeing me take it really seriously to pursue this dream, or it was meant to be. It was really meant to be, but it was extremely difficult, and I was only at that restaurant a very very very short time. But that time was hard. But I understand people go through things and you have to remember where

you belong. So I definitely found home base again, yeap, And I loved that in the midst of that, and multiple other times you reorient around all right, I'm not where I want to be, I'm not doing what I want to do. Necessarily, things aren't working out the way I want them to work out. I'm still going to orient myself around being kind yeah, because that really is your pivot point. You've got to be secure in something.

And when the floor falls out from under you, and when life crumbles all around you it looks like your dreams are completely gone, then it's like, okay, what can I rely on? What? Okay? What's true? And the one thing I can do is treat people well. The one thing I can do is believe that people will be kind to me, because that's one of the greatest mechanisms of kindness to me, is that when you practice kindness, you actually have hope that other people will be kind

to you. It's like what you put out karma, it'll come back. And so you don't have a problem believing that somebody, whether it was the woman who walked into that restaurant or another person or another gig, like, somebody is going to be kind to me because I believe in kindness and they're going to help me just because you know, not because of you know, good looks, charm and personality, but because they are kind. And there's a lot of kind people in the world, and there's a

lot of kind people in business. And I think that people forget that that you don't get a door opened unto you because you are so talented necessarily or so amazing or so passionate. You get a door open to you because that person on the other side, the decision maker, is actually a kind, herded individual who says, you know what, I'm going to give you a shot. So what are some tangible ways that people can be more kind? I think this is where a lot of us run up

into trouble. We go This sounds like a great idea. I want to do it, but I'm not really sure what to do. I think that we have to decide that, no matter what, kindness can't be canceled. You know, COVID is canceled a lot of things, including eating out and going to stadiums and going to arenas and going to theater. But being kind and giving a touch that's your own, you know, a phone call is extremely kind. I talked to somebody today. I've been talked to you in a while.

I said, I'm so glad we're making time today because you could be calling five other people right now. But they kindly said something about, no, I want to be talking to you right now. Sending somebody a video message. You know. It's something I started with Good Morning America, like how you can be kind and use it practically. So text messages started to really bug me because all I saw was text emails, text text messages. Like I was like, I'm so tired of seeing words on a screen.

But I was so hungry to see people's face, and so I would shoot like ten to thirty second videos and be like, you're amazing, can't wait to see your face. You're a rock star. I appreciate you. Press end like just a selfie video, and people loved it. People were like, oh my gosh, it's good to see you. I love this and they would smile. And those are really easy ways. And one way that I also suggested was venmoing people you know. Thank goodness for apps like Vinmo and even zell.

For people whose bank accounts are linked the cash app, just try somebody you know put ten bucks in their account and say, hey, coffee's on me next time you go because we're not spending money taking people to lunch. We're not having dinners after work. And so it's like, listen, you know, even if it's five bucks, like it's just the thought that you would say, I was just thinking about you today. I know five bucks, you know, don't even explain it. There's no too small or too big,

you know, if you want used in fifty bucks. But the other thing I said was you can get food delivered to somebody. There's amazing restaurants. We can support our local restaurant community. Order take out for somebody, just send it. There's so many apps. I'm not going to even name all of them because that's a whole bunch of advertising right now. But there's so many apps, and they can you know, get their favorite meal and just be like

lunch on me, dinner on me. Distance doesn't stop us from shopping, so why should it stop us from being kind? I love it. Another way that I see you demonstrate a lot of kindness that I really like, and I think it's a place that's accessible to all is the people we work with. Yes, it's huge. We spend more time working than anything, right, What are some ways to

be kinder to the people we work with. Well, number one is And I told this to a gentleman who was kind of an engineer type, and he said, I admit that I don't have that in me to like think of kindness all the time. So can you give me an idea? And I said, well, why don't you schedule a kindness call and call one of your team members or a colleague that you don't talk to every single day but you have worked with pretty you know, intensely, or on a project. Whatever. Schedule it, like you schedule

your meetings. So at eleven am, say hey, I only have five minutes, but I wanted to tell you I was thinking about you. I only have fifteen minutes. Like start the call saying listen, I had five minutes, but you have been on my mind. How are you? What's going on? Let that person talk, because what happens is we end up communicating with coworkers just when we need something, and all of the long video conferences that people grow so weary it's like, are you kidding me? Back to back?

But to have the refreshing of somebody who will take the time. One of the things that I do inside the company is I have this group of women who meets regularly and it's a mentor moderator type role that I play, and just listening to their stories and being an ear or a shoulder or you know, a trusted safe place that they can rely on every week has

been really beneficial for all of us. And so maybe you need to have a gift exchange or one thing I did was we had the whole group and it was like, Okay, we're selecting one person, and that one person we're all going to give a Venmo gift to. You can pick any denomination and then they can do whatever they want with the money. They can go get their nails done, or they can donate it. And just if you have enough people that could kind of back

up the money. But maybe they need that encouragement, maybe they need a few extra bucks this month. You know, it doesn't have to cost money, but it's thinking of others from the standpoint of most of us right now need an ear, need a place of conversation and connection that isn't available every day because we're being demanded of to just produce, produce content, produce solutions for our company. And I'll just tell you one more story. There was

a friend of mine. He works in the sports industry, and he got furloughed and he started reading the book and he sent me the sweetest message and said, listen, I got furloughed. They called me and instead of responding like they thought I was going to, which was an anger and kind of like, how dare you like I've done so much for you over all these years, I was kind and because of my gentle response, they actually

offered me a full time job. Was just a slight pay cut, he said, I know it was because I was more conscious of kindness after reading this. So I shared that with a publicist in Nashville because she asked, you know about the book, and she said, it's so funny that we're talking about this today because I was at the grocery store and somebody's baby fell out of the shopping cart and hit their head on that cement floor,

and I thought, oh my gosh. And she said I was calm, and the mom was so thankful to me and said thank you for being kind. And she said I didn't administer a medical assistant. She said, I just helped pick up the baby and make sure the baby was off the ground. And she said, but I remember that the mom was so needing somebody to just be

calm with her. And so one kind thing you can do besides being kind yourself and practicing those every day, just being situationally aware of others, is share stories of kindness with your colleagues. Tell them what's going on. Because that created this ripple effect throughout the day where she was encouraged. I was encouraged. The guy I know in the sports industry was encouraged because we were all sharing

these stories of inspiration where good was the center. You know, we often share what's going on with us vent you know, oh my god, all this is going wrong, but there is good happening, and we do have great expectation when we anticipate more of that. Hope. Yeah, I love that. I think that there is always good happening. It's a question of what do we want to orient towards it. We're always choosing do we want to see the good

or the bad? Because it both is there. You can't hit a target you don't see, and so if we just see the world as broken, we have problems. We have severe problems. But I have to believe that the target that I'm aiming for is not to magnify the problem. The target that I'm aiming for is to say we are growing closer and closer to the hope and the picture that we dreamed of for ourselves and for our children and children's children. Well, I think that is a

beautiful place for us to wrap up. Thank you so much for taking the time to come on, for sharing your story of kindness for the book, and it is a really needed message right now. Thank you. Yeah, I'm so excited and grateful and thank you for allowing me to come on. And we certainly do know a lot more about being who we really are, so that what we feed consumes us in a good way. That's right, yep. And kindness is one of those attributes that the more we do it, the more it grows. Thank you, Eric.

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