The official pot is presented by win Bet Betting is a team sport bet together at win Bett. Eric Allen here at one Jets Drive with Jets tight ends coach Ron Middleton. So great to see again. So what's the process like when you guys get a new offensive coordinator? Obviously, Robert Sala and company make the change at the end of the year, Michael Flour explores other opportunities, eventually lands with the Rams. But when Nathaniel Hackett is selected as the guy, what happens for you?
The first thing is hopefully I get to stick on and to stick around, you know, But yeah, Nathaniel and not go go way back. So a little different from me, and that I know the guy, know him personally. I know he's his quirkiness and and whatnot, but also know he's dare I say, ah, he's a really really good offense court, really good offensive coordinator. He's very smart, innovative, hard knows, but he presents it in a way that
the makes it easy for the players to understand. There's some rhyme and reason too, even to the point of how we call it. I mean, you would think that would be important, but a lot of times that's that's overlooked, you know. So for me, I was hoping that that it was him that got the job because of our history, I guess, you know.
So so let's talk about your history. Okay, you go back to Jacksonville together, right any time before that?
Yes, we we could go all the way back to Gruden and Tampa. Yeah, he was a.
He was QC system wide receiver coach. And that's being very generous generous. Uh, he was I think coach man, the Richard Man, the wide receiver coach just allowed him to be in the room.
You know.
But that's where that's where he cut his teeth. They're in Tampa and we go all the way back there.
So it's what was he like as a young guy cutting his teeth and just getting the start in the league. Obviously, his father was offensive coordinator.
Here, that's right, That's right, and he was actually a consultant, a quarterback coach. They're also at Tampa. Yeah, so I call him coach. You know, Nathaniel is Nathaniel, but that's coach Hackett, you know, energetic, smart, You knew he was gonna he was gonna go far in this business.
Even way back then.
I mean, it was the writing was on the wall, So I'm not surprised with any of the success.
But then the next stop, how many years together were.
You guys at Jacksonville? Yeah, I want to say four years together? Yeah, at Jacksonville, I think four he called he was offensive coordinator for a year and a half there, I think, but he was I want to say quarterback coach? Oh whatnot the other couple of years there?
Yeah?
Can you talk about you both were on the staff that had that run of the AFC Championship game?
Correct, Yes we did, Yes, we were.
Can you talk about his work because it's been well publicized, the work he's done with Aaron and we'll get to Aaron in a couple of moments, but maybe the work he did with the personnel there. Blake Bortles was a quarterback and there was a balanced offense there. But you guys had a lead in the ANFC Championship game, Patriots.
Yeah, that's right, that's right.
We always say we were a quarter give a take away from the Super Bowl And you know, I can't publicly tell you my disgust you know what happened in the game, but I don't want to be fine yeah, it was. I mean it's well documented. You can just look at the tape. You know, they called a touchdown back on us. You know, they took a turnover away from us. It was it was really really bad.
How often do you think, how often do you think about that?
Very often? Yes, I do, Yes, I do. I do.
For that team, that team, everything came together for us, you know, the offense, I think we we we led the leg the league in time of possession. I think we led the league in rushing the deep, which which
coincided with the defense. The nickname was Saxonville, you know, because we had some great pass rushers on there, but they got a chance to do just that rush to pass it because by the time the opposing team got the ball, they were usually behind and not a lot of time left and having to throw, which fell right into our defensive defens's hands. Special teams was we were were top categories, several categories. So everything worked together, you know.
It was a It was a great chemistry and we had all the makings for for for getting to the Super Bowl, and like I said, we were a quarter or so away from it.
But what does it say about hacked specifically, that he had that success with a guy like Portles.
He knew how to use him. You know, Blake is well documented that Blake isn't or wasn't the most accurate passer, but what he did bring to the table was a grit and toughness second to none. He was a football player. And so the plan, you know, we had. We had RPOs for him, you know, to carry the ball. We had play action Leonard Fournette. You know, we rode rode
that horse. That was when he was a youngster. So we rode that horse and set up the play action and and then Blake would do the keepers and nakeds and the r pos. Like I said that it was a very very balanced. I think he used all his weapons, right, you know, and that helped Blake out, you know, that really did.
We didn't ask him.
To drop back and throw it fifty times a game, you know, but we made our chunks. And you know, like I said, a quarter a little bit over a quarter away from the from the Super Bowl.
Man, that was a crazy playoffs because I remember I think opening weekend you hosted.
Buffalo hosted Buffalo. That's right, right.
It was somewhat of an ugly game unless you like defensive football. I think that final was ninety six, and then the next week you're in Pittsburgh. I think that final was like forty five two.
That's right.
We had we had beating them earlier in the season there in Pittsburgh and then to go back in the playoffs and beat them in Pittsburgh.
But that that was that was outstanding. It was good stuff, man, it was good. It was good stuff.
Speaking of good stuff, what's it been like for you guys here in the early stages of implementing the Hackett system and a can you talk about maybe the parallels to the system that you ran in two thousand and twenty two. It's the same family, but also can you speak to Hackett as far as what you said before about matching his system to his personality?
Yeah, you know, the system is basically the West Coast system, you know, that's what we were doing. I mean it was versions of it, but like you said, all of them or or branches of that West Coast system.
You know, hack.
When he when he does install, he goes back to the days when his dad worked with at San Francisco with Bill Wahhas you know, the original you know, the West Coast offense. You know, they where they were implement or installing, installing these plays way back then, you know, seeing Jerry Rice, Brent, Brent Jones, you know, a tight end run these plays or whatnot. So it's all connected,
you know. Nathaniel puts his spin on it, you know, and he's modernized a couple of things, a couple of formations. You know, they didn't didn't didn't do a lot of motion back then, so we got a little motion now. But understanding, I think, I think more than anything he understands. It's not so much what he knows. What he can do is what the players, what they can learn and what they can do once they get on the grass.
You played in the league for more than two decade. Yeah, that's right, and you've been coaching for a long time, starting out in the college ranks.
That's right.
What was your reaction when you heard that the trade was finalized The Jets were getting a future Hall of Fame quarterback to lead the ship in Aaron Rodgers.
Yeah, you know, I've I've had run ins with not run INDs, I mean, I bumped shoulders with him. With Aaron before, it was always cordial he he always called me by my name, he knew me, which which I thought was a was a big deal. You know, Aaron Rodgers knows my name, knows my face or whatnot. So I was to say I was excited with being understatement.
You know, it's.
Except I will accept the expectations that come along with that because I know that that we will work to get the pieces around him to be the sharpest that they can possibly be. After being with him for the last couple of three weeks, I think I've never been around a quarterback like him.
So why in your mind has he been so effective? This eighteen year run Green Bay just unbelievable. Again, you know the history of this game. He's one of the best players ever.
Yeah, you know he's first of all, he's talented. You know, he's got a lot of talent. Man, to see him make some of those throws. Saw one today was we was installing earlier and was showing clips of him and he may just throw some type of just a dime right there if it had been a spill to hit the receiver and throw it was right on, right on,
right on target. So, first of all, he's talented, he's very smart, and he's been in the system that there's a lot to say with familiarity, to say four familiarity, he knows the system, he's he's done it all. He's seen everything that someone could possibly give him. And you know that the I think he utilizes his weapons. So oh, that to me equals successful with eighteen US eighteen.
Years, you know, four time NFL MVP.
How about that? How about the.
Best touchdown interception ratio of anybody who's ever played.
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Now, let me ask you this. Do you sense because we see him at a podium, or we see him doing interviews, you see him in a totally different light behind closed door, is in meeting rooms on the field. Do you sense a genuine excitement about being here?
I do you know? I think it's I think you know. I don't know him personally. Like I said, he's known my face and called me by my name, but I've never sat down and had had a beer with him, or or or had an extended conversation with the guy.
Orcot Scotch with him, He's like, I guess he likes Scotch, do does it?
Yeah?
Okay, that's good to know it. It's not I don't know what about stogies. He smoke a cigars.
I bet you he would with you, Yes.
Out standing, But he got me off track not thinking about stogies and.
Scott what what he is with in.
The meeting room.
In the meeting room, you got to be on your p's and q's. He questions everything or or or if there's a better way to say it. He tries to bring he tries to use that better way, you know. On the field, if there's a if there's a way he wants a route to be run or whatnot, then he'll sit and he'll tell him. You know, and and and it's just instant credibility coming from the guy. You know, the players. Look, I told my tight ends, tight Ends.
I say, hey, if this guy tells you something or tells you how to do something, do it okay, and then come tell me so I don't know, so I can reaffirm what he says. You know, it's his show man, it's his shows. He's earned that, and he's been out there. He's been out there with these guys, teaching, working with them, doing the sprints with them. And I think they appreciate that, you know, a whole whole lot. It's Aaron freaking Rogers man.
You know, it is Aaron freaking Rogers.
Do you expect to be in this position when Salah brought you on board in twenty one?
That do you have?
Obviously you have confidence in him, but as far as like a timetable twenty one, you guys embrace this youth movement and you go four and thirteen. The next year twenty two, you start out seven and four. You know, I've made the argument multiple times here on the pod that you guys would have been a playoff team had not health failed.
Yeah, and then.
Obviously in consistency at the quarterback position. Uh seven and ten overall, but nearly doubled your win total last season. And now here we are, people are looking at the Jets and saying, you know, that's a championship contender.
Yeah, we got a chance. I'll say that we got a chance.
I'm not stamping anything right now, but we've got a chance. We got a legitimate chance to to do something special. I think with the combination of youth, I think with the you know, Aaron Rodgers brings a whole different element immediately to everything that you do. But you know, the defense, defense top on, one of the top defense in the league. Last year, we did have some some highlights, some some some we came close to to a lot of things. We were closer than what our record showed last year.
And I emphasized last year, you know, this is a whole different It's a whole different deal, a new you know, we we we got some questions to answer.
Uh offensive line, you know.
We we've got to show that up a couple of guys uh Breefe, you know, coming coming off of injury. You know, he's a weapon that that that that we're counting on, you know, Garrett and the receiving corps. You know, let's take another step forward so that Yeah, we would much rather be in this position. Don't get me wrong. And I'm not pole mouth, and I'm just trying to
be realistic about about it all. But you know, we still got to go out and do it, you know, and there's still some things that has to fall in place for us to be what we want to be.
You know, we got.
To avoid those injuries, you know, And I know injuries are a part of it. But I bet if you go back and you look at the successful teams, the most successful teams historically in this league have been the most healthy teams in the league, in and out each and every year.
So I mean that's the big thing. Let's let's be healthy.
The SOLA will get them, will get them in that team mentality, I have no, no, no doubt about that. We will be prepared, We will will go about it in in a in a smart manner, put guys in in in the right spots or whatnot. But you know, like I said, we there's still some things have to come together for us, for us to get it done. And you know that's that's part of the NFL.
Let's talk about your group. Okay, Tyler Conkin comes in the fifty eight receptions and year one. What do you want to see from Tyler in his second year with the jet but more importantly first year with Aaron Rodgers, first year under Nathaniel Hackett.
Yeah, First of all, I want to see him healthy. You know, he had this abdominal deal or some deal that he's that he's nursing right now. So so that's first and foremost to get him healthy. Once that's Once that's the case, then then then he's gonna what he brings. What he brings to the table is something that that Nathan Nathaniel will will utilize and and I think Aaron Rodgers is gonna love the guy.
You know what do you think Roger is gonna love about that skill set?
He's He's an explosive route runner, you know, in his in his world, in that ten to twelve yard range, he can he's got some he's got some quicks and some explosiveness that can can really take advantage of that underneath coverage. He does have enough speed to stretch the field. He has a nice little little knack for getting into scenes.
You know.
I know Aaron likes the deep ball and whatnot. He and and he'll be a viable weapon for him in that in that aspect. But the twelve fifteen, twelve to fifteen yard range, like I said, he can, He's got some quickness and explosiveness to create mismatches in that box area there.
What about cj Usama? I mean, you guys, I don't want to put a percentage on how much twelve personnel that you guys used last year. And you know, I think when people think about the two, they're thinking more about Conklin's maybe past receiving exploits, and then maybe CJ is more of your typical blocker.
Well, I wouldn't, I wouldn't wouldn't categorize like that, but I will say we I think I think we ran a lot of twelve personnel last year, and rightfully so if you put that much money in a room, I would hope.
That you.
Know, get them out on the field, you know, and not counting anybody's money, I ain't saying that, but I think we purposely tried to use them, you know, because of that fact, and also because they were good football players and you're trying to get your best eleven out on the field. They both of them definitely was part of our best eleven.
You know.
And then with Breech getting hurt last year, you know, that took an element. We tried to do some things with that personnel grouping to put some more playmakers on the field, if you will. Hopefully, hopefully we can build on that. Hell, I'd like to go thirteen person so you know, we're working for that. You know, I don't know how I'm gonna get that done, but we're gonna, We're gonna, We're gonna do our We're gonna do what
we do. We will talk about the tight end position and we will make plays when our number is called, and I just hope we on speed out for them.
Yeah, you know, I mean c J was not as busy as Tyler, but when he did have those receptions, a lot of those ended up being big point.
Big place. C J.
You know, he you know, he he was dealing with some nagging injuries last year. Also, you know, he he he finally got in a groove, got healthy, and got in a groove. You know which which which helped and could feature him more or more specific things for him. But yeah, he's the he's the jack of all trades, c J Is. You know, he's gonna give you everything he's got. Nobody plays harder than him, nobody. He's very smart,
he can do a lot of different things. He's a he's a big body, so you know, there's a reason why you know, he's he's been in the league as long as he has and and he's respected as much as he's respected.
People forget about Jeremy Ruckert. He was a rookie last season. He was dealing with some physical elements himself early on in his career. Coach Alla had high praise for him last de summer before the season ended. Do you expect him to make that jump now?
I do. He's you know, that's we've talked about that. If what he.
Put on tape the Miami game, you know, was was outstanding. I think that that performance going into the off season really put him in a great place mentally, give.
Him a lot of confidence, a lot of confidence and and he has visual evidence now of hey, I can do this and I can do this at a high level.
And that's just scratched the surface of what this kid brings to the table. Man, he's smart, he's tough, he's athletic, all the makings, you know. Now, we just got to keep him healthy and find his niche and before long he's going to be a household name.
I think.
So when Joe Douglas tells you that they're going to take Zach Goointz in the seventh round.
Yeah, what are you thinking?
Because Joe talked about the importance of some of these guys late in the draft having the freak factor to him. Yeah, and Zach certainly does have that. You're talking about six eight two fifty runs like a deer can jump through the gym. And he was very productive in twenty twenty one. I mean, I know injury cut his season short in twenty twenty two, but what do you like about him?
You've stated you've stayed a several of them at the Combine and just a little you know, we get reports from the Combine of their workouts and everything, you know, the three cone drill, the vertical, the forty you know, all these bench press all this stuff, and if and if and if they're good, those numbers are good, they're usually in green their average there, you know, in a beige type color. And then if they're really bad, there's it's really red. You know, there's some of that out there too.
Sure was that Cones.
Every every statistical deal he had from the broad to the three cone, the every the bench press even you know, the bench was green.
Everything was green. He was.
I'll tell you what, he put on a show. His workout at that the combine he put on definitely put on the show. He's six ' eight. One thing you didn't mention is he's really really smart. He's really really smart. And you know he I told him. And when I gave my evaluation him, I said, well, he definitely definitely won the interview. Of all the guys I interviewed, really he was the best interview. Yeah, because he he talked a good game. Now, he talked a good game about it.
You know, I'm tough is and he said all the right things and all that. So we're gonna put that to the test. We're gonna put that to the test.
Now.
That's that's that's that's what I want to see. You know, all that, all that running around in shorts and everything. That's all good, and that's that's necessary, and that's part of it. But you know, we don't play football in shorts and pajamas and T shirts. You know, there's some plastic. There's some plastic on there. And regardless, it's not as physical at it as it used to be, but it's still a physical game and we got to bring it.
So I'm sure he will.
How much you like this room, And obviously they could ask you about Kenny as well, But it just seems like you got a good group of guys and there's a lot of versatility there.
A lot of versatility. First of all, these guys are made up. Every one of them is made up of the right stuff. You know inside you know, their their professional they they're professionals. They they they they want to be good, they want to be great. I think they see the potential of of of of of the team aspect of it, you know, they and they're all about team.
Maybe maybe maybe we're asked to pass protect a little.
More now than we are to run corner route or whatnot. I don't see them guys complaining, well, not much. You know, he will complain to me but it's gonna be it's gonna be team, team first, and I think it starts with that. I think that that's one of the prerequisits of of the guys we bring in, not just in the tight end room, but what Slah well, his vision of this team you want to be want to have good citizens first and foremost, and he won't team guys.
And if we get that, then we definitely got a chance to build on something positive.
Yeah, it's gonna be exciting season. And uh, listen, you have a lot of fans out there. We talked about that before, not only from what you did in Mobile, uh leading the squad to victory, but obviously beaten your old team, the Jacksonville Jaguars when when Robert Salah was down and and everybody recites the line. I've seen a couple T shirts out there about everybody want to go to heaven.
You know, but nobody wants to die. Yeah.
Right, you got any ol T shirts yourself or no, They're in.
My locker, my wife has and whatnot. I would never wear one, but I can get you on if you don't have one.
Yeah, definitely, I definitely want that. I'm gonna take you up on that real quick.
Though.
You are a leader, you are a successful coach the NFL. Last year, you were part of a program, a front office accelerator program. As we start the twenty twenty three season, there are three black coaches in the National Football League for the fifth consecutive year. Okay, do you think a program like that is ultimately going to help where the league should be?
I hope.
So there's a lot of good things with that program.
You know.
I don't know if I told you, but you know, just to be it gave it gave me and everyone that was there with me participating in it last year. It gave me a chance to be around the owners in a different light.
Yeah.
You know, I got to see some guys that I only have seen from Afar talking about owner wise that you know.
Once I talked to him, I.
Mean, if it's just regular people, We joked, we laughed, you know, we had some serious conversation. I worked for Shah Khan with seven years at the Jaguars, and that was the most time he and I spent together one on one at that accelerate deal. Yeah, it was a cocktail get together. Yeah, and he and I talked for a long time. We talked about a whole different, whole bunch of stuff. And that was the most time I spent with him of all the time that I like, I said, I worked for him for seven years, So
I think it's a it's a good thing there. There was some very a lot of positives that came out of it, uh, and I think they start up again next year.
They asked me if I wanted.
To go back this year, and I was like, I do, but I would like to see some some of the other coaches get an opportunity really too, yes to to experience that. You know, I've experienced it. I've I've gone through it. Now let's let's let's spread it around. Let somebody else go Now, so.
Your guy stays in the moment and you're gonna approach each day like that. But have you ever let your mind wander and say, hey, I know I can do this. I'd like to do it someday myself.
Oh, no question, no question.
Yeah, that's that's that that that that is a goal. I mean, but you know, I'm at my age and my time that I'm just saying though that I'm gonna I'm gonna need some definitely I mean, we all need this, but I'm gonna definitely need some divine intervention. It's gonna be a unique situation that that allows me to get the opportunity I think based on.
The the the the.
The requirements or the pathway that they that that that they you have to take right now to to get that opportunity. So, you know, if do I think I can do it? No, I know I can do it, and I think I would do a hell of a job with it too. But like I said, I'm gonna at this point, on this stage in my career, is gonna it's gonna be a unique situation, you know, because I'm not going to be a coordinator, you know, and
right now that's the route that they're taking. You know, there might be there has been position coaches that have gotten an opportunity, but not many.
You know. It's interesting. When I started here with the Jets was old one and my previous year in the NFL was with Tampa in two thousand and the secondary coach was Herm Edwards. Herm Edwards got hired by Woody Johnson here as head coach, and he took the route from defensive backfields coach if you say herm was never a coordinated.
Was never Yeah, yeah, you know, so that's that's one and no doubt, no doubt. Yes, yes it can't. It can happen, no question. That's where that divine intervention comes in.
You know.
But the other thing is if you guys have success as a staff here, which everything is pointed in that direction, like they're gonna end up picking a couple of guys off the staff to be head coaches. Yeah, because that's part of that's just like Robert was successful under Kyle.
And defensive coordinator, you know, you know so yeah, Nathaniels offensive coordinators head coach last year. So you know, maybe if they want to go, you know, I'll be more than willing.
To just put it out there.
You know, I'll be more than willing to to offer my services to anyone that want to chance.
And you loved it right in those brief times that you had the opportunity.
It was outstanding. I had a ball, man, I had a ball. I had a great report. The players I see some of them now, you know, the guys that were in in in in Mobile, you know, the own team, different teams around and they you know, hey, I'm still Hey, if it's moving, I'm.
Still hitting it, coach, you know.
So it was great, Yes, it was great, and I look forward to that opportunity.
Well, we always look forward to our next opportunity with Ron Middleton, and hopefully this summer we're gonna get that date down. We're gonna be at a golf course near you.
Yeah. I love it. I love it.