Kate Flannery

to win? In I Am Kobe, we reveal intimate, never before heard tapes of Kobe when he was a teenager, just as he was starting to glimpse his own greatness. It's about the making of an icon. We weave together these tapes with Kobe's high school coaches, his friends, and the figures who knew him in his youth. All episodes are out now so you can binge the whole thing. Listen to I Am Kobe on the I Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts and wherever you get your podcasts. Hi. I'm

Glory Adam, host of Well Read Black Girl. Oh. Each week we journey together through the cultural moment where art, culture and literature collide and pay homage to the women whose books we grew up reading. It's the literary kickback. You never knew you needed. Listen to a well read black girl on the I Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. Hi, I'm Kate Flannery and I played Meredith Palmer on the Office. Hello everyone,

and welcome to the Office. Deep dive with me. That's right, your host Brian bam Gartner. On today's show, we have the incredible Kate Flannery. As you just heard now. I have always felt a special bond with Kate because I think more than anyone else in the cast, Kate and I we put our bodies on the line for the show. I mean just in terms of pure physical comedy and

like shameless personal humiliation. I think Kate and I deserve medals for bravery and maybe Kate most of all, she was just completely fearless and she was always up for anything she was asked to do. In fact, the last time I saw Kate before we sat down for this conversation, I went to see Kate uh in a taping for Dancing with the Stars that Kate was a contestant on, and she asked me to come see her perform, and I went, and let me be honest, it's kind of

a weird experience. You're in this giant warehouse. There are assistants moving around everywhere, there's applause signs telling you when to laugh. And went to clap, and went to stand, and went to sit and and then all of a sudden, the music starts and Kate literally descends from the ceiling because she's doing this Mary Poppins number. She's Mary Poppins. And I see her start descending and I immediately start crying. I'm I am overcome with emotion because the fearlessness, and

let's be honest, I'm not We're not spring chickens. And she had total commitment and she was dancing her heart out. But that's Kate anyway. I did not cry in this interview, but we did talk about how Kate had to flash her boobs a lot on the show, so that was the thing we didn't We didn't cry, but we talked about boobs. How's that for a setup? Without any more blabbering from me, here is the woman who bared it

all for your entertainment, Kate Flannery. Bubble and Squeak, I love it, Bubble and squeak on Bubble and Squeaker cookie, every moment left over from the nut before. Well, well, I'm good, How are you good? How's it going? Oh my gosh, awesome. They be blocked in a box. They have been locked in a box. This is not our regular studio. Yes, this I thought was construction, but apparently it's a folly. Are you gonna make folly sounds? I'm gonna just start running on the grass. You can recreate

the fire dress, Steven right, exactly. Um, you can throw your code on the thing unless you're cold. What's up to you? Is she fine? Here on the mic? Can I talk about people behind their back? On this? Can I curse? You can say whatever you want? Um? So now I know some of this. But two thousand four what Well, first of all, what was your training exactly? Like? What were you doing work wise before the office? Well?

I was in Chicago right after college. I studied theater in Philadelphia and Virginia for a couple of years, and then I um graduated from the University aunts in phillip and then my aunt sent me a ticket to check out Chicago and Second City because she thought it would be a good fit. So I studied a Second City and then I got hired by the touring company, so I knew Steve. Steve was in one of the resident companies when I was touring. UM. But then I moved

to New York. I didn't a year long tour of the real life Brady Bunch a few years later, and then moved to New York for six months. And then I got asked to do the show Valley the Dolls in l a uh, and then I was here for about a year and then came close to a few different shows. I was like up for the Data Carvey Show, which obviously Steve Coral and Steve Colbert got I tested for it, came close, um, and then UM the show I was doing off Broadway, So I went to New York.

So I was in New York for three years. Okay, I'm old five years. So you were in Chicago in and around Second City for five years, then went back to New York, then l a then back to New York for three years. And then when did you come back to l a uh. I moved back because I got a new manager and I was basically like waiting tables and then started to do my comedy act, The Lampshades, And was you know, just like doing some guest star stuff. I did Bernie Mac. I guess Creed was in the

same episode that I did a Bernie Mack. Yeah, he didn't have any lines. He was just like a doctor in the background or something. I was so funny. And then um, I booked a recurring gig on Boomtown and my second episode we were about to shoot and they said that the show got canceled. So that was that, And then I was I had auditioned for the pilot of the Office. I was up for the part of Jan. I read for the part of Jan, did not get it.

Obviously they want a completely different way. But Allison Jones said that I think this show is good for you, which was awesome. And then I just remember, like doing my comedy act like Lampshades, that we were We were supposed to do so many things that like kind of fell through. We were supposed to be on Mad TV for four episodes, and I'm like they canceled when it was a whole lot of almost And then I remember getting a call that they were trying to fill a

spot after they shot the pilot in August. You guys shot in February and in August, I got the call to go in and read for Allison Jones. And then by the time I got home from that I found out I got the job becase I didn't have a cell phone side away for my landline to get the message. Okay, so wait, so you read for jan I did not know. Yeah I did, but there would be too much sexual chemistry between me and seven if I got that part. She said she thought she still thought it would be

a good like I love. That's why I love about Allison. It's like she remembers things. So I somehow registered, you know, And I remember going to the next audition for what became Meredith. I don't she was called Meredith at the audition, but I remember they said no makeup, like really no makeup. Usually when they say no makeup, it's like lip gloss and sebascara, and Alison was like really no, no, no, no, take it off, take it off, take off the lashes. Now,

I would wasn't very much, but yeah, interesting. Yeah, So then you so you came back and at the time you're do you remember what the what the description was of the character just said she was lactose intolerant, divorced and had to Hys directed me go great light chill right, Yeah,

and you knew who did you know? I knew Angela because we were in an improv group in all chickenprov group called Bitch Planet in two thousand in l A. And I knew Steve because I knew him from from Second City and also he did the first few months of the Really Brady Bunch. He was the first Greg Brady when we used to do that crazy show. Yeah, yeah, crazy, but there was so much sexual chemistry between me and See that we could I'm just kidding, sorry, I mean

he you definitely showed your boobs to him a lot. Yeah. Yeah. The first time we shot that Christmas episode, he said, I'm not looking at them. I'm just gonna stay at your clavical I was like, I think, I mean, should I be insulted by I might? Should I feel? But I don't know what to do. He was such a gentleman though really I knew he was my best interest

at heart to the end. I um I have said many times in terms of just pure comedy and the direction with McDougall, and like everything that moment with you at the end might be one of my favorite moments, oh my god, of no of the of the whole series, because he's so well directed too, and it's so like just the way that it played, it was such a subtle, unexpected crazy so unexpected, and you have that like that

like gas band of like oh my gosh. And then him just the look on his face and picking up that camera and taking a picture just is so perfect. And even the moment after we were like he's you know, he's not going to do anything, Like he's like, he's done.

That was it. That's all he wanted was a picture, which is so fantastic because I feel like so many other actors would have played that differently, and Steve had such economy and such brilliant I I mean, I'm sure you remember this, but I feel like every every you never knew exactly what he was going to do, and he could do five different, six different things in different takes, completely different with the same words, with the same dialect,

and just be like, make these really amazing, subtle, strong choices, crazy great. I felt like I was watching someone who thought, I have to make the people in here laugh, Like that's what I'm gonna do. And if we rehearse it, and we do this, and we do that, like then everyone's gonna expect exactly. Yes, so great at that. Yeah, that's that's so well put. Yeah, he definitely had a plan. He definitely had many, many ideas all the time. Oh my god, I'm such a deadbeat as an actor, I think.

But I think he's really one of those rare gems. And you know, it's just shocking that he didn't want an Emmy for that role. Yeah, it's a trapsty but he's he's not a politician. He's never been, never been so, and I think some of its politics, which is Um, so you come back in and you are now reading for Meredith or unnamed mis directed me character, and um, did they show you the pilot? Did you see the pilot? I saw the pilot later I saw the pilot. Uh yeah,

after you were cast. Yes, okay, did you have any specific thoughts about it? Well, I was nervous, said it was exactly like the British pilot. I think everybody was nervous. But I still thought it was funny. And I thought what they added that was American was really funny. What's ah, what's a you know? And I thought everyone was much more understandable than the British. I'm one of those people that watch is the British Office with subtitles because I

want to get it all. Is that terrible? No, it's not terrible. When I walked through life with you, I need subtitles too. But you're just like Philly, Pennsylvania. I hard to understand. Sorry. Um So I heard that Greg made a conscious decision to stay as close to the British pilot because he thought if he did, the network couldn't give Oh wow, brilliant, brilliant. It makes so much sense. And I remember my brother Chris Hasten, who I met

on the show. He's a still photographer for NBC. He was shooting the pilot Gal and he was told if anybody looks at the camera except for Steve, that's it. We're done. Like Greg really wanted to look documentary. And and Chris said there were so many specific instructions because Greg was so uh protective of making sure to get this absolutely rights. Thank god. Interesting. So even in the PR shoots, Chris the photographer was directed, yes, which is

never the case, I mean very rarely. There might be a note or two, but nothing, nothing, that's intense. And Greg was like just you know, very stressed, stressed out about it. He just wanted to be absolutely right, Thank goodness. Do you feel like, um, you had any specific hurdles or anything you had to overcome specifically because you weren't on the pilot. Well, I wasn't sure if I was coming back every week. I wasn't sure. I remember talking to Phillis about it. She goes, I think you might.

I'm like, okay, because I definitely felt like I was getting stories, um because I I'm allowed to say that I replaced somebody from the pilot. So I was getting stories at like you know, uh, they're gonna see you know, if if this is actually even a place like maybe it's you know, maybe this character won't even exists. I don't even know. So there was pressure definitely, but you know, I was like, okay, we'll see. I mean, everybody's nice.

This is and they told I don't remember this. They told us to bring paperwork, which so the first season we literally sat at our desks because they wanted us to really be busy doing real what looked like real office work. I thought that was so brilliant. Yeah, do you think that that did anything to help create the ensemble. I do because I feel like everyone had a focus immediately.

You weren't like looking for someone to throw you the ball, and if you did get the ball, you were busy doing your work, Like that's what people doing a documentary. I mean, it's so it must be so uncomfortable for somebody in a regular scrant Pennsylvania office to have a camera around, Like that's not a comfort zone. There's nothing comfortable about that. So I love that that was part of the mix. And then we had this weird medical paperwork that was like they bought, the prop department bought.

So I remember creating these like weird little patterns of stapling things and like, and I remember Jenna and I had a whole dance where we would have these weird clearance papers that we would sign for each other. It was so bizarre, but it was fantastic, right, right, No one's talked about that before, but yeah, Like our prop papers were essentially old expired medical documents from people's procedures, like a bunch of the ton of them. They lasted

for years. Yes, And I remember doing the same thing, like, okay, and I would pull pieces of paper that looked more like Excel like like that. So like so like if I had a whole thing that was mostly writing, I was like, wow, this doesn't really look right, right, Like I need something that looks like numbers, and then you would look and it would be like red blood cell counter numbers for Jason Alexander. Wow, Jason's okay, though, everybody, it's okay. Yeah. It was a bizarre This is so

pre internet recycling. There you go, all right, we were doing some greenwork. You're hilarious recycling. This is true repurposing, repurposing a paper company office needs paper, ladies and gentlemen. We were not destrowing trees for this charge and show. That's hilarious. And of course you know Ken koppas directing like go ahead, you never say action, go ahead. Loved him just understanding that, like you're not just suddenly turning

on your already in You're already in it. You're you're working, so just continue, go ahead. It's perfect. It's like the perfect direction. We talked to him about that some too. Yeah, bringing us in early and having that thirty minutes of like worktime and having us all there together in that room doing BS paperwork and quiet, and that's very quiet, so quiet painful sometimes yes, and then you would just hear like John or Leslie or Phyllis, pretend to be honest. Sure, sure.

And I also remember during the healthcare episode that was the first time I improvised. And the whole thing about the uters is different from a vagina. I still have a vagina. Remember Gregg telling me I run in him. I was still waiting tables during the first season, and I would see some people from the show at my restaurant and I would see Ken Kappas sometimes and then I saw Greg and I wasn't waiting on it, but he had talked to you. I love that he like

completely ignored that I was wearing a uniforms fantastic. I'm fighting with the network about vagina. I just really want to keep it in. I'm really hoping it works out. And I was like, yeah, I mean, like he just can't. He came up to you. So you're working at Cape Manolini still, which is Beverly Hills fancy restaurant. Every famous person on the planet came in, So you were there through When did you stop? I stopped right before we

started season two, so literally a couple of weeks. So I quit my no I I covered my ships during the weekend. The I used to work my Sunday brunch and then I because we only shot it was you know, after the pilot was just five episodes. So yeah, and then and then I remember Amy Hackerling came in with their parents, Brian Gordon came. A few people came in, and they kind of gave me this look like, oh him, sorry, I mean they didn't. They were a little condescending or

a little too sympathetic. I was like, it's fine, whatever on the four year old wags. I know, I get up steves the four year old version of the four year old wages whatever. I mean, it is what it is, you know. And then when Greg came in, he completely ignored the fact that I was working. Like I love him for that so much. I mean, I'm sure he just was like, oh, but we got business to attend to. Let's get to it, you know, So we're you still working there once the start started airing. Yeah, did you

have people come up to you? I did some. Actually, one time someone asked me. They said, hey, I have a question for you. Are you lactose intolerant, and I said, yes, thanks for not bringing up my hystery. Activation that was like their way of yeah. And then I remember like Marty Panzer, who was Bart barry Maneleo's lyricist was Piste, because he said, I come on here on Tuesday nights and you, uh, you're not here. But everybody, nobody was

away on me because they're all watching the show. They're all up at the bar watching you, and I can't get any good service, like whatever, looks like you did it? Oh my god, um did you did you think the show would be picked up? I wasn't sure. And I remember we didn't get invited to the first upfronts, and I remember thinking like, okay, well, and I think technically we weren't regular until Loose curs Um, but I felt

like we had a shot. I felt like there was some vibe something that just felt different from anything else I'd ever been involved with. It was really intense and really great and just half unfolded so wonderfully. It was like a slow, steady, wonderful rise, which never happens in this town. And I know that there had been documentary mocumentary movies like Spinal Tap and stuff, but never Never a TV show, even some of the mocumentary stuff, Like I feel like our show is up with the very best.

I mean I really feel that way, even all nine seasons. Like there's things where you just go yes, Yes. It's a hard time for hiring, so you need a hiring partner built for hard times. That's Indeed. If you're hiring, you need Indeed because Indeed is the hiring partner where you can attract, interview, and hire all in one place. And Indeed is the only job site where you're guaranteed to find quality applications that meet your must have requirements

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get your favorite shows. So the office, you know, I want to tell you I have this sort of theory that part of the specialness I'm not sure it's a word specialness or uniqueness of the ensemble had to do with, you know, how attractive we all were, how completely fucking sexy we were. But that was new, you know that that was a new thing. You know, I mean that was definitely a concept, is that we were not supposed to be attracted, and I felt like I held that

mantel pretty well all nine years. I just have to say some people ask for a little more makeup. I was like, nope, I'm sticking with the game, sticking with it. Love it, lived it, living it, love it. And my boyfriend used to say, I look better taking out the trash and I did on the show, and which is fine with me. I'm really it's fine, you know. And now I know I'm not looking so good. People go, you look exactly like you did on the show, compliment and a dig I'll take it all. Um, I you

know we're in the same um space. But you had you and Steve and Angela and Oscar who you were great improblems and Rain and I we were doing check off right, and then you had b J and and Craig doing stand up right. Sure so true, and you know I love the way you broke down. And um, were you in the Seagull or Three Sisters? When you were three sisters? Three sisters? We did Three Sisters together. I also did the Seagull. I was at the Seagull in college. I think I was in The Three Sisters

at least twice, once with Rain. Um. But yeah, I know it's crazy. That's so, that's so right on. I mean truly like I was doing the darkest of darkest Yes, And I used to always say that I was in a drama. I used to say that to Greg and actually he said that to me once he goes, this isn't a drama, and I was like, is for me? It is like, Um, you are the only person from Pennsylvania. Yeah, Zach Woods is too, he's from He's in Bucks County,

but he came along later. So I was the one always bitching to get tasty cakes into the vending machines because there's no there really is no vending machine in Pennsylvania that does not have tasty cakes. And we eventually did, but it was very brief s mission accomplished. They were too expensive. I don't know, I'm not sure. Maybe, Um, what do you think about setting the show specifically in Scranton, Pennsylvania. So goes along with Slough, England, which is this kind

of forgettable town that had a glory day. But I mean, growing up in Philadelphia, Scranton was a joke. So it was always the butt of many jokes. I think what Greg did was he got very very specific and used contradictory ideas that you don't see in television, like there's the big dumb guy Kevin, but he's really good at basketball and he's a poker savant. But Meredith as well, like the ways that she was very specific. Yes, yes,

and sometimes I didn't always like every one. While I remember improvising and feeling like I'm not sure if this is gonna work whatever. I felt like season three was a little bit of a struggle. I feel like I got I mean, or there was a little more trial and error or something. And then I feel like once we got to season four, once I got hit by the car in the fun Run episode, was like We're

off to the races. But season three, I feel like I was particularly cut out a lot, and I felt like some of it was like we were trying for things that didn't quite hit um. And some of that might may have just been me not getting it, but I was I was a little bit like, oh my gosh, I I hope we you know, I hope we find

something you know suddenly, and boy did we. But just kind of like understanding, like another layer of like, oh she's she's a mess, but she's also not a victim, and she's not she's not as involved, but in a in a very conscious way, she's not excluded. She just wants to stay in her life, like literally, like she doesn't want to get involved with I don't know. I've had women come up to me and be like, oh

my god, I'm the Meredith of my office. And and it's not just because they're like a drinker, because they usually are, and and they're loud and proud, so I totally believe them, like only a Meredith would be like a Meredith. Wow. You know it's like that to me is like the ultimate compliment. It's fantastic. You know, my dad owned a bar. I don't know if you knew this,

but so I'm a bar owner's daughter. Remember that Halloween episode, the first Halloween episode that was supposed to be when it was revealed that Meredith was a drinker and the whole thing got cut, and remember Paul Fiek was like,

I'm so sorry. The network just wanted more of Michael Scott handing candy to the kids from his new condom and like, uh, Anyway, my dad own a bar, and my dad understood the complexities of alcoholics too, and some of them were extremely functional in some ways and charming and others and then blow it and then get get back you know, really mess up their life and then

get it back together. You know, there's little elements. I feel like there were subtle, subtle things that kept showing up, like Meredith's relationship with her son Jakie, and you know, bring your daughter to work day, Mered brings her son, uh, who's a nightmare and calls Michael Scott Mr Poop so good.

But again like and and Meredith's ever forgiving and she's not like a mean mom, She's she's a little indulgent, you know, which again, like I don't know if that would have been my first choice, but I totally respect it. I get it, and I see that in other people, and I think, oh my god, the writing was so great, Like they really did not need my help, right. I think you touched on something that I never really thought about before. But you have a lot of kind of

wonderful moments with Michael Scott, like specifically with him. You know, there's obviously the Christmas episode where you know you flash him for the first time. Um, but yeah, fun run when he hits you with the car, breaks your pelvis. There's a very tender moment at the end of that that episode when you hear what he's done for you. Yeah, it's interesting to me that Meredith functions kind of solo in the in the group of an I mean, this

has never occurred to me before. But you know that sort of iconic shot of you playing solitaire on the computer, like there's some convection to that, and you weren't, by and large, you weren't going over and hanging out at sales or coming over to the account, which I think gave your character an opportunity to do a lot of special things. And obviously you being gifted physically as well. Well,

it's fun to get to do the physical comedy. And I was thinking, you know, the Valentine episode of the the first Valentine episode, season two, when Phyllis is getting all these gifts and Pam is really upset, and you just seem, you know, Meredith with her big open and then we find out that she's drinking and then she's passed out with a line in her hair. I mean that to me was like, what a perfect, perfect little just just perfect enough. We get it, We've been there, we know that.

I mean again, there's so many layers and it's just I don't know, I just feel so um, it's just so fortunate to be a part of something that will I think, always have a respect level that most other TV shows don't have. I really don't. How do you feel like Kate influenced Meredith? Um? I think I will. For one, I was always willing to do most of my own stunts, and for me, that made it more fun. I felt I felt like I was really experiencing more

that makes any sense. Um. And and I also think that audience knows sometimes when you know there's you know, I don't if you guys used to watch The Bionic Woman, but there was always like some six foot guy in a blonde wig pretending to be Jamie Snummers, like so bad. But yeah, I just it made me feel a little more part of the process, and I felt like it was one of my strengths that I really enjoyed it. So when I was planking in the men's room and Dwight comes and blows me off the top of the

stall with the fire extinguisher. That was me, So you know you didn't you didn't do one thing though, Uh, there's a couple of things I didn't do. I did. I didn't get my hair on fire, and did not light my hair on fire. When I heard that there was like face gel involved, I was like, I don't know if I wanted. I didn't know that. I just think you didn't shave, I didn't shake my hand, I did not. Yeah, good for you. I think I disappointed Greg,

but that's okay. Really he was shocked. He was like, really, I'm like, I'm sorry, but no, my hair is my thing. What I um? Well, actually leading into that, do you there was so much sexual stuff with Meredith. My parents were so happy about that. My dad's so catholic, is like, what is going on? Do you when people say that we couldn't do the show today? Do you think that? Do you think that's a part of it. I was reminded doing the research about you selling sex for steak Yeah,

for steak coupons? Yeah yeah yeah. But she was contrite, she admitted it, and she was asking for forgiveness. Right, There's got to be I mean, there's some conscience in that which is funny and sad. I mean, that's that's the best thing about the office is that it's the funny and sad. Right. Um, there was a time I thought Kevin and Meredith mte we did kiss that one time? You remember that. I didn't make it on the air. I can't. I don't remember now. What was it? What

was the contact like that? I know, I'm I can't remember. It was at my desk? You know? Why did we do that? Was it? Was it a party? I remember it was like a test, Like I remember. I think about it every night. I just can't remember so much sexual at tension between you and I. Oh my gosh, what was it? I can't remember. Shoot, I'm not sure. Oh my gosh. I felt like they toyed. I felt like the writer's toyed with it for a membure. Yes

they did. I do remember this a little bit, and I think it was before the Valentine episode when Kevin was looking for a girlfriend. Okay, but I think it's before that. It was to be explored. That's so fun. I forgot that we're not lives. We can't have a fan phone in, we can't answer damnit. Um. Yeah, I'm gonna have to I'm gonna have to think about it. I don't know that it aired now that it may not have. It may not have. Was that tough for

you though? The getting naked part of it was a little likely ship, but it's a little like jumping out of an airplane. And I will tell you, as great as you know Randal and Matt were, I always felt like I didn't get much. I kind that lunch after

we shot me Big topless. It was a little uncomfortable, and I think the last season, season nine, there was an episode where we're watching parts of the documentary at Oscar's desk in a scene and I would have like a little bit of moleskin and it fell and Ed's like, whoa, whoa, whoa, we have to stop this. He was like, we could really see your boob. I'm like, oh no, I had no idea. I was so embarrassed. Oh I forgot about that.

Yeah no, But you were so fearless in both the physicality that you did and the pranks that you did. I feel like you and I had did a lot of really bad I remember the one which you wouldn't think about it like watching the show, but we were

loading boxes. We were the warehouse was gone and there was like oil on the on the warehouse floor and we're like pushing boxes like that was our idea to be more efficient was to push boxes and they just kept having me ball and I'm like, guys, this is concorde, like this is not like there's no padding, there's no

thing there. Yeah. I think that was I think the hardest one for weirdly, like you wouldn't think it right, No, no, no, but it's those little things because you're not padded and no, I totally no. There was no safety meeting about it before, Like seriously, there's a reason why they used to do that stuff because you don't want to get hurt. We'll meet. Holding you on my back with that was intense. That's

That's one of those things ups like what drugs? Was someone on who came up with that idea that merediths trapped on Kevin's back? Crazy make the idiots perform like monkeys.

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Steve was leaving U? I literally was with Creed. We were on the side of the office doing like a satellite press junket um and we and they had announced it that morning, so every venue wanted to talk about it. And I was like wow, because of course it was emotional. I mean, who are we We're not I mean Michael Scott. You know, Michael Scott is thunder reveling, he is the office. Um. Yeah.

I was so freaked out. And literally I told Creed him like, Okay, anytime they talk about this, just just pretend like we can't hear the feet, like I think the feed's going. I'm sorry, I'm getting some interference. What was the question? Wishing him all the best, Like I we had this little thing where we would figure out how to get out of the conversation. So but I

was I was definitely freaked out. And I mean, the great thing, the great thing about our show is that I feel like Greg Daniels is so trustworthy and I feel like he's picked so many great writers, and I feel like if anything could have survived a couple more years without step Growl, it was because of Greg Daniels. But I was nervous. I was, and I was nervous about Spader um, just because he's not a comedy guy.

And he's brilliant, but he's not a comedy guy. And I kind of had this whole thing like, oh no, he's holding the baby, he's gonna drop the baby. Don't drop the baby. And also I was intimidated because he's he's like a movie star and I had seen so many all of his movies and you know, and there was so much sexual tension between the two of us, so much. But I felt like there was sexual tension between me and Spade. They're they're probably even more even

more Si Spader, he liked anyone here is sexual. Um. The season eight Christmas episode, there was one take where he's sort of like Meredith thinks she's actually made me gonna go to dinner with them or something like that, she's got a chance with them, and he sort of touches her cheek like no, no, no, and she goes to hug me, and I literally one take, I grabbed his ass and then I was like, immediately when we start, I'm so sorry, I'm so sorry. I'm so sorry, I'm sorry,

I'm sorry. I just felt like, oh my god, he goes, no, he goes. That was the right thing to do. End up using it, but I was like, don't grab James Spader's ask Kate what the wh was amazing. I was so nervous. I was like, oh no, oh no, oh no, he's amazing, amazing pool party supposedly at Robert California's house. That was the hardest episode for me to do. Wow.

I was in the pool a really, really really long time and it was one of the hardest for me because I had to be in a bathing suit on camera in my forties, my dream not and you think, like, you're in a pool, why are you complaining? But like because of like hypothermia. They had it, but it was crossed. It was heated, but it was indoors. So it was kind of like an old holiday inn that you can swim in that's hot, and then you're in it for

like in a day, maybe nine hours in the water. Yeah. Yeah, and you guys were doing those chicken fights with with on your shoulder. Yeah, oh my god. That was crazy. Again, the sexual tension was off the charts. UM, so we had how important it was, you know, for the pilot specifically, um, but then the guest casting after that to not have any stars, Yes, to keep it as unknown people. Yes. Yeah. And I remember even Carol Burnett at the TC as she said she she loved our show during her speech

and she wanted to be involved. And I think they were like, Nope, too famous, too funny, too much of Yes, that's right, that was an idea. But yeah, but then you know, of course, um, Cathy Bates, come on, Cathy Bates Spader. Yeah, well, well I loved working with the will so fun Oh my god, just the greatest. He had remembered. We had had dinner literally in like nineteen ninety four, uh, in New York when he first got hired on SNL with Andy Richter, and I was like,

I couldn't believe that he remembered. And I remember being embarrassed because I had a really embarrassing ex boyfriend who was a real douche bag. He's like, I felt really intimidated because all you guys were from Chicago, and I felt like you guys were like so great at while I was like, what is so crazy? Anyway? But I love love, love love wolfore that's right. Uh. My story similar to that was Kathy Bates went to s m U.

She was there before me. But while I was there, she had already won the oscar and she came back to like they opened a new theater and my mom got a book of Shakespeare's sonnets sent it to Cathy Bates, told her that I was a really big fan, and I went to s m U and I did this show and got it. Rea. I believe the only autographed item that I have of anyone that I can recall, like to Brian and you know, good luck in your future.

Blah blah blah Kathy Bates. So I hear she's going to be on the show, And now here we are and we're in the makeup trailer, and I came up behind her and I said, I wanted, Kathy, I want to show you. It wasn't her first day, so I did not want to seem like a crazy stalker, but I came up behind her and I said, you know, I just want to show you that my mom. And of course I wasn't expecting her to remember, I'm sure she's signed you know a lot of thure just to say, like,

how crazy is this that my mom did this? I know, crazy, Oh my gosh, that's awesome. She then had me arrested, but she would do from time she had me arrested too. That's just a little fun thing we used to do with get people arrested. Um. What do you remember about going in to shoot the finale? Um? I remember trying to be as present as possible and just to try to enjoy all of it because it was such a

great ending. And um, and then I remember Greg just saying one more take, one more take, how about this? How about this? I remember we were all two hours late for our own rap party that people were texting and calling like where are you? Like, just like, no

one wanted to end. No one wanted to end. There's so few moments like that in this business where you can actually feel the emotional part of the joy that all those years represented, and the way all of our lives changed, and the way that it the show continues to speak to people, and like people feel so connected and they feel so comfortable. It's so rare. I mean, really, I I make jokes like if I got hit by a car tomorrow, for real, I'd be fine, Like I

would be like it was. This was such an amazing chapter, you know, And so few actors get this. So few actors it's it's uh, it's really an honor. Why do you think that young people have connected to the show. Why is the show more popular now than to two reasons. The most basic reason is that being in an office like dunder Mifflin with one big room with all the offices, it's much like being in the classroom and Michael Scott is like he's the boss, but he's like the teacher.

I mean, I think kids can always relate to having to sit next to someone that they didn't necessarily pick, but they're kind of stuck with for years. And also I think the show is so smart. There's so many subtle things. You can watch it a million times and see different things that you didn't see before that you weren't paying attention, Like you can notice different things. There's so many Easter eggs and like weird little things that

just kind of keeping. And some of it's like stuff that got cut, like I don't remember the weight loss episode where like people still have questions about like Meredith's skin because there's a whole storyline where Meredith got sun poisoned on a fishing boat, and um, it got worse and worse as a week went on and it never got explained, and I remember Steve was like he thought it was so brilliant that they just didn't worry about any again, because how many times you work with people

that you're not that close to and like something's going on. You're like, I don't even want to know what's going on with you, know what I mean, Like I'm not even go And also like skin is like a weird personal things, so you would be like, what's wrong with your skin? No one would do, you know, So it's like this kind of wonderful thing. It's just we're just kind of existing as as a real documentary would happened,

where some things are not explained. And I feel like kids are so smart, and I feel like they feel like they're smarter maybe than their parents by the way that they notice the office in a way that maybe people have been watching very typical sitcoms for years don't don't necessarily plug into immediately. I feel like they're not as tainted by that. I don't know, that's just a thought. Yeah, No, I think you're right. No, that's great. Um, all right,

last question, hardest question. What does the office mean to you? The office means joy, validation, success, um love fun, great process and probably the best part of my life. I knew you were going to say well before you set it. I know, I almost said it for you, and I was like, nope, find it. Yeah, oh yeah, OK, thank you so much, Thank you so much. I'm so glad we could get drunk like this. This is awesome. This coffee has you have no idea what's in it? Actually

no clue? Um, so awesome. I always loved watching your process too. I have to say this because I always felt like you you had You just had certain instincts that like just I feel like you were such a co creator and Kevin, like just in your not speaking as well, but like there would be things that you would just it was you. You were fearless and really amazing, and I feel like, yes, the writing is amazing, but I feel like no one else could do what you did.

No one. Well. Thank you all right everyone? That is all for the one and only Kate Flannery. Kate, I know you called me fearless there, but you are the fearless one. I admire you so much and I cannot wait to get absolutely wasted with you again soon. And you know what, same to all your listeners out there, Let's do it sometime as long as you're of age, of course, But until then, please join me back here next week for another interview. I need to go fill

up this coffee cup the office. Deep Dive is hosted and executive produced by me Brian Baumgartner, alongside our executive producer, Lang Lee. Our senior producer is Tessa Kramer, our producer is Emily Carr, and our assistant editor is Diego Tapia. My main man in the booth is Alec Moore. Our theme song Bubble and Squeak, performed by my great friend Creed Bratton, and the episode was mixed by seth Olansky.

We've all felt left out, and for people who moved to this country, that feeling lasts more than a moment. We can change that. Learn how it Belonging begins with us dot Org. Brought to you by the Ad Council. I'm Jake Halbern, host of deep Cover. Our new season is about a lawyer who helped the mob run Chicago.

He bribed judges and even helped a hit man walk free, until one day when he started talking with the FBI and promised that he could take the mob down I've spent the past year trying to figure out why he flipped and what he was really after. Listen to deep Cover on the I Heart Radio app, Apple podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. The Black Effect presents I didn't know, maybe you didn't either, But the history or

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