Ed Helms - Pt. 1

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I played Andy Bernard on the Office. Hello everybody, welcome back. This is the Office Deep Dive. In case you clicked on the wrong podcast, I'm your host Brian baum Gartner. Today I am delighted to bring you my conversation with America's banjo playing sweetheart Ed Helms. Um. Now, a lot of people don't know this. Ed and I knew each other very well. I mean very well. We went to the same high school. We went to the Westminster Schools

in Atlanta, Georgia. We were in the same ensemble choir I think, or corral or something anyway where we sang back when I pretended to sing. He still sings, but I don't. I don't think so much anymore. But we had a bond and we're not just Georgians or Atlanta's. We are those things, but we are from the same high school in the same area and grew up with the same people. So our history is very very shared. And Ed and I lost. We weren't in touch for

a number of years. He was doing stand up comedy and was on The Daily Show in New York and I was traveling around doing theater and eventually landed in Los Angeles. And when we were shooting the webisodes, this would have been the summer of two thousand and six, and uh, I was shooting a talking head and suddenly, right behind the camera, I see Greg Daniels walked by, followed by Ed Helms, and all I I can't even I don't even think at that moment, Oh, that's actor

Ed Helms or that's Daily Show correspondent Ed Helms. My mind goes, that's why is Ed Helms here? My friend from high school? Like that's all. Like he didn't call and tell me he was coming. And uh, of course he was in the middle of an interview and tour with Greg Daniels, who he was meeting with about about coming on the Office starting in season three. So that was the first time I had seen him in a a long time. But oh, man, if you ever get a chance to spend in the evening with Ed Helms,

you will not be disappointed. He is joyful above all else, more than any one else who was on the show, or maybe anyone that I've ever met. He is a joyful, soulfulful person. Soulful. I'm having trouble saying the word soulful, but I think I got it the second time. I don't know. Here is dead helms, Bubble and squeak. I love it. Bubble and squeak on Bubble and squeaker cookie every month left over from the nabb before. He dude, are wonderful. Oh my god, it's so good to see

you too. You look so much older. Okay, alright, alright, here's your ginger snaps? What is that so funny? I don't know why that's there there for your assistant. Um, she just started well a week and a half ago, and you're not like I've never I've never had a conversation with her about ginger snaps. So do you like gingers? Well? Sure, who doesn't like ginger snap? I know, but it's that like a thing that you ask for when you go to work. Never, never, ever, have I ever asked for

ginger snaps. Yeah, I don't know. How are you. When was the last time you were back in Atlanta? I haven't been to Atlanta, and way too long I did. I did three movies there over the last few years. But um, I am getting a little homesick for Atlanta, which I never thought i'd say. I'm very happy to be not living there, but but I do like it when I go back. Now, my last three years, I've shot movies in North Carolina, Mexico, and Columbus Georgia. And

Columbus Georgia was the hottest. Yeah. Well, the hard part about hot weather in the South, and I really hope we can stick with weather as a subject. Sorry, but I love it. No, honestly, it's fun to talk about Georgia. I know, I know, I know from there, but it's it does there's no reprieve like in l A or in in desert climates, or or like even in the Northeast it cools off at night, whereas in the South

there's no escape. Like if you're in the shade, you're still muggy and hot, and then when night comes, it's just a hot night. It's not like a cool like the temperature does not go down. Um. Autumn, Yeah, Halloween is when I miss miss Atlanta because that the autumn's they're so long, they're so it's so protracted, the trees are changing forever. That's when I get missed dive for right, So you moved out of Atlanta, you went to the Northeast. Now what were you doing right before you came onto

the Office. I was on the Daily Show. Yeah. Yeah, I've been on the Daily Show for four and a half years. And I had done a pilot for NBC for Kevin Riley. It was really fun. It was a multi camera pilot that I that the Daily Show let me kind of sneak away to do. It's just a few weeks of work and it did not get picked up, but it was a ton of fun. And then it went really well, and Kevin Riley was I guess he liked he liked me, so he so he made a

talent deal with me at NBC. It's funny. I you know, I remember I remember being at the Daily Show and and and I knew Steve from the Daily Show. You worked with him. Yeah, we we overlapped, not very much, but an off that you know that we were acquaintances. Uh, we overlapped probably five or six months or something. And then I just remember getting word that he was gonna do the Office and just thinking like that is so perfect, that is going to be so good. So you knew

the British version of it, Yes for sure. Yeah, I mean, I you know, I'm I'm a comedy nerd and was very much in the comedy universe. And uh, and so then the idea of I mean, Steve's character on the on the Daily Show was at its best when he was of sort of a version of Michael Scott, like not self aware, kind of usually less informed than everyone

around him. Um, he was brilliant on the Daily Show because he really kind of pioneered the form of Daily Show segments in which the correspondent is the butt of the jokes, as opposed to really just making fun of somebody else, which, yeah, which is which is easy and means spirited. Usually it's kind of shooting fish in a

bucket and it's not as interesting. But Steve kind of really shifted that and found this way of being kind of an idiot news reporter and that was so funny and fresh and and still able to get great satire into the pieces. Um, that's true. Often he played like the pseudo expert or the you know, the teacher in a way that then became yeah, just confident about the wrong things, right. And and so that's why when I

heard he was going to do The Office. I just was like that, I mean, yes, Ricky Gervais is a genius, this version will also be great. Uh. And then it was and what's crazy, I think I told you this recently too, is that was so around that time, I was just sort of looking for my exit strategy from the Daily Show. I loved working there, but I knew that I had to just shake things up because I was really starting to feel like in a rut. So I was auditioning for a lot of things, and I did.

I got. I auditioned for the The Office, like the original cast of The Office in you auditioned for Jim. Is that right? Yes, I'm almost positive. Then I auditioned for Jim. Yeah. And you know, obviously it would have been a better show if I were him, clearly, Um, but this wasn't you were in New York because in New York City, and and you know, I went to thirty Rock at the casting office there, and I forget the casting director's name. It was the head of casting

for NBC in New York. In New York. Yeah, Um, and I just went in it was I was I was excited about it because I knew the British for vision, but I wasn't super optimistic or anything, and I don't remember it being an especially good or bad audition. I just kind of went in and I'd love to see the tape. I don't know if it's so so great. I know that, but like, yeah, Rain and Jenna's and I've seen a few of them out there, but that's so crazy that funny. I'll ask Allison Jones, um, so okay.

So then so you don't get Jim. Don't get Jim. It's just sort of back to business as usual at the Daily Show. I'm trying to cultivate some ideas to bring back to NBC, maybe just you know, on the off chance that they take a shot on developing a real show with me. And I was out here for some reason and Borg came down. Why don't you meet with Greg and just have a chat. And so I went in and we had a chat and it was great.

I remember Greg had seen this short that I did with my friend Nick Poppy called Zombie American, and it was it was basically a mockumentary about a zombie just trying to get out on the dating scene and all the sort of um, all the pitfalls of being like why being a zombie is like a was the problem, it's a liability on the on the dating scene. And uh. It was you know, tiny little short with no budget, but we spent all the money on the zombie makeup.

So it was like a hard commitment to full on press thattic zombie, which made it super funny because I the character was just a guy talking to the camera and you know, talking about how like it's awkward on a date when your finger falls off or or um or when people you show up for a blind date and they see you from afar and turn and walk away and and and it was like a this really poignant, very real but also obviously very silly piece and it's it was like a ten minute short. And Greg had

seen that. I don't know how it was not out there, but um, he'd gotten his hands on it. That I think was probably my best foot forward as an office character, because it was talking heads to the camera. It was small performance, it was very it was just totally in the same family as the office, so that was part

of the conversation. And then they then he and Paul Paul Lieberstein came in and he started talking about this character Andy Connecticut yacht club spoiled and obviously we're not from Connecticut, we're not from yacht clubs, but we're from you know, we went to prep school in Atlanta with I think kids that are totally analogous to Andy Bernard, and so it was a type that I understood immediately, white white belt with the just like yeah loafers upbraided

white belt and holos and so knew that. So yeah, we just started talking about it and it and it was making us laugh and pitching kind of like, oh yeah, he probably took sailing lessons but never passed the test that allows you to actually take sailboats out from the club because he just wasn't good at I don't know, just like dumb fun stuff that when we were laughing about it, and then I went back to work at the Daily Show and got the call that hey, we're

gonna do a couple of episodes, you know in this Scranton off I mean in the Stanford Stanford office, and I was told it would be two months of work. They had in mind eight episodes, I think. So I went to my ep at the Daily Show and I said, look, this is Steve's show, it's in the family. What do you say, Can I go and do this? It's two months, it's a long time. This was also right around the time that Colbert had left to do the Colbert Report. It just was kind of a fraught time for correspondence

at the Daily Show. UM, and they were very skittish about it, and they were like, I just we don't think we can let you go. You know, it's there's a lot going on in the world and we just need And I was very I was very disappointed, but you know, tried to kind of understand that, and it put me in this bind where I was like, I can either resign from the Daily Show for two months of work or turned down the Office. And my analysis was, well, I've been on the Daily Show for four and a

half years. There's nothing I can do on this show now that's gonna like change how I'm perceived out there. I'll get better and better and do hopefully do funnier and funnier stuff, but it's not no one's gonna see that I can act. No one's gonna see that I can do other stuff. And the Office was not a hit at this point either. Like it was. It was it was like a very show that I loved, but it was by no means like a sure thing to jump into. But I just decided it was worth the

risk and I had to. I had like, even if I only worked for those eight weeks, I would have a really good new thing. So I took the plunge and the rest is history. As they say, it's a hard time for hiring, so you need a hiring partner built for hard times. That's Indeed. If you're hiring, you need Indeed because Indeed is the hiring partner where you

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your podcasts. So Gregg talked to me about the idea of Andy and Stanford as being basically to Jim Dwight in Scranton, but with a whole different demeanor, Right, Like you talked about preppy East Coast waspy, little ivy but incompetent and idiot, but in a totally different way than the trans am heavy metal dungeons and dragon weird nerd

in in Scranton. Right, Were you aware of that? I don't think I understood at that time exactly how analogous Stanford was supposed to be to Scranton, And I didn't think too hard about it because It was really interesting because this we shot obviously, all of our stuff was on the on another set, and we didn't interact with you guys much at all during that time, just by virtue of the fact that we were shooting on separate stages at different times and different stories and all that stuff.

So I really felt like we were in our own show, like we were kind of doing our own thing. Um. And it was instantly the most fun thing I've ever done. Like it was instantly. It just was so joyful. Rashida and I were kind of the new kids, like we we were a little click that kind of had each other's back. The writers were clearly having fun with our characters, which is the best. I mean, that's when it's you're

really having fun. The writers were showing up to set and joking around with us, and John was I mean John, he obviously was such a stalwart of the show at that and and central character, so his disposition towards us really mattered, I think, to us and to our kind of like self esteem coming into this, and he could not have been more warm and fun and playful, and but like having the confidence of somebody who had been there. A couple of years or you know, it was really

just a year, two seasons. Um. We just jelled and were instantly having fun and making each other laugh um a lot. It just felt great. Yeah, I never thought about this before until you started talking that. It's almost as though John, in the middle of doing a show, basically had a spin off that then was still a part of the same show, right, like a spin office taking a character and going and creating another show around that character in a different environment. And in a way,

that's what was happening. I think looking back, I I mean, I think that that was a test of us about an actual spinoff. But I don't I mean, I'm not in Greg's head. I don't know the answer that. I've never asked him that, but I years later, looking back, it just seemed like it was just like a set up for a spin It's it's the way sitcomes at

that time. We're spinning shows off, like you put someone in a new environment and all of a sudden introduced new characters and all of a sudden, like they're in a new times line. Um. But but I don't know that. I don't know if it's t or not. But you're you're right. It did. It was kind of a classic spinoff move. It just wound up re kind of merging back into the into the original show. Yeah, I've been thinking a lot about and you hear about the office.

You think of the office as being sort of in a place of stasis, right that there's the bullpen, and that's what the office is, and people get used to that, and people like that, and they don't typically like it when something changes. But I felt like what Greg did, he kept, whether it was conscious or not, creating sort of a new kinetic energy by disrupting by making Jim go to Stanford, by making Pam go to art school,

you know. And that helped the momentum of the show, and I think provided a stark relief for comparison because, like you were saying before, it really was an analog Chip as the boss was so different from Michael Scott like he was. He was sort of like the cool jock boss, right, but but problematic for other reasons, you know, like wanting to play Call of Duty all the time. And uh. And then I my my character being sort of like a Dwight analog, as you said, but totally different.

Rashida being romantic competitor. It's all like, yeah, I think it. It's just served to really heighten all of what was great about Scranton. Yeah, so at some point you are told that you're going to stick around and now you're going to come in and join scrant How was that transition? So I can't remember when it became clear that I was going to stick around, if it was before we did started doing episodes in Scranton or after, because I think Andy's departure to Anger Management was sort of like

the end of my agreed upon time. I can't quite remember all that timeline, but I will say this, those first few episodes in the Scranton office was like it's like a little kid walking into Yankee Stadium. Like even though the show wasn't huge, it was huge to me. And I loved it, and I loved what everybody was doing, and I just thought it was the funniest thing in

the world. And so to walk in onto that set and actually have lines and have like fun stuff to do, I just felt like I was in the major leagues and uh in it, but not in an intimidating way, in a like supported way, and um, you guys, everyone was so cool right. It just was such a great group of people. Yeah. Uh, it was just fun. Well and and you know, now hearing more of the specifics

of your story. Early on, I mean, we were all a group of actors that had had minimal to no six sess in television and film at that point, from varying degrees, like six months before I was doing theater and just just starting right. And you know, Steve had done obviously The Daily Show. But when even when Steve was on, it was kind of before The Daily Show was cool cool, it was it was the Bush administration

that really I think launched it. I mean, Graig Kilborne was great and I was a fan from then, but again that's just because I'm a comedy nerd. I think in the zeitgeist, it really was George Bush that kind of catapulted the Daily Show. Um, and so yeah, everybody I think had the attitude that they had because no one seemed bigger than anybody else. You know, there wasn't the structure that exists where there's the star and there's the kind of star and there. You know, like everybody

was kind of figuring it out. And as the show started to pick up and we were all sort of a part of that together. Yeah, I remember that that year, so I got kind of officially brought into the cast and was in the regular season after Anger Anger Management. I was just there. I was like part of the show. And the Emmys were around that time, and that year the Daily Show and the Office one Emmys for Best Show, and I was like, I'm doing something right. This is

going pretty good. But that was that was really fun. That was and the Emmy's of course, was such a fun thing for the cast and everybody just oh man, those are those are great? The salad days, the salad days, good times. Hello, and welcome to our show. I'm Zoie de Channel and I'm so excited to be joined by my friends and cast mates Hannah Simone and lam More and more to recap our hit television series New Girl.

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of Andy is like you? Ed Well, I would say that not very He's not very much like me, but only because I'm I have better editing mechanisms for my own behavior. But I think a lot of Andy's impulses and instincts are you know, I relate to, Uh, He's just not self aware enough to put a check on them.

There are things that I actually really envy about Andy that I wish I was more like um and the Angela storyline really I think brought that out that that was a thing that made me I mean, I was kind of loved Andy's douche baggery from a comedy standpoint, it's just fun and ridiculous. But the Angela stuff, like just seeing him really put his heart on his sleeve. I felt, that's when I really fell in love with this this character and I And that's something that I

I've always struggled with. Maybe it's part of just our southern upbringing, but like expressing emotions in real ways and being transparent and being you know, just chasing something that you love and that means a lot to you. It's that was that's it was hard for me. It was hard for me to kind of mature in that way. Uh. And Andy is just he's the best, Like that's the he's he fell in love with Angela, and I was like,

this is it. I'm all in and I love you and he and everybody knew it, and he was there was no shame, there was no kind of reticence. And I think I just always loved that about Andy. And I think that his rage was a kind of the flip side of that, like he just wasn't able to kind of control the expression of his emotions. Uh, and sometimes when he should have and it had beautiful consequences in in some of his romantic relationships and then obviously

devastating consequences and in other ways. But I think that that's what you know, Greg and the other writers and you obviously in creating that Arcter and and everybody. But you know, we talked a lot about I've talked a lot about the more specific the characters are drawn, the more universal they become. And so you think, oh, let's paint in broad strokes, this is generally who this guy is, right, And it's the white braided belts and the polo shirts, and that's who that guy is. Okay, I get Andy,

That's that's who Andy is. But no, he had one of the biggest hearts on the show and was able to express that in a really specific, true, genuine way, and that that dichotomy and complexity I feel like made him really real and lovable. Yeah, I think you're you're onto something specificity, which I think a lot of comedy writers sometimes shy away from because the the the instinct is like the more specific I draw a character, the

more people won't relate to that character. But it's the opposite, Like to your point, it is the exact opposite, and I think of like, I was just having this conversation with a writer the other day about how John hughes movies we're you know, on paper, John Hughes shot all his movies in Glencoe, Illinois, which is one of the most affluent suburbs in the country. I mean, all mansions,

all beautiful lawns, everything. You know, it shouldn't be relatable, right, that should be that should be alienating to everybody, And

yet there's so much specificity in those characters. And that's what people find themselves in that specificity because audiences say, you know, I may not understand how a teenager can drive a BMW, but I can understand how that character is devastated by that breakup that they're having, or or the fact that the way that they're acting out, or the way that um this little passion that they have is getting made fun of by their friends or whatever. It's.

It's those details allow more people to connect. Um. You talked about your relationship with with Angela Um and how that's how you began to fall in love with Andy Um. Do you think that his well, the fact that he was a cuckolt, like, did that begin to make him more sympathetic to audiences as well. Yeah, for sure. Uh, that was a pretty sly move, I think on the on Greg's part, I'm trying to kind of tap back

into my my thoughts. At the time, it felt really fun to unleash that part of Andy because so much of what he did was antagonistic and sort of confrontational or passive aggressive. And for him to have to be putting positive energy out there, even though it was so misplaced or so well it was misapplied to Angela, that was so fun and it just it made It's part of what I think positive energy makes someone like, makes

an audience like a character. Um, you don't get Angela and then Aaron shows up talk a little bit about that relationship because I didn't remember that you're love for her or your initial fascination starts like the first day she's there. It's like, oh, well, there's there's a new one in the office. Let's go for her. You've got no baggage with this person. We can write our own story. Let's start from scratch. Here we go. Yeah, that's yeah,

that's great. Um. I think that in thinking about it, that the Andy and Aaron storyline becomes you know, kind of a parallel with what was happening what happened with Jim and Pam earlier. It just had a slightly more absurdist bent to it. There were still tender moments, there

was still that longing on both sides. Um. But I think that I don't know, talk about that a little bit if if you recall your approach to it, or did the writers talk to you about where that relationship was going to go from the beginning or No, I don't think so. I don't think there was a uh an arc spelled out early on. But you know, Aaron's energy was just so funny and it felt right for Andy in a way, both of them being very left footed socially kind of made them perfect for each other,

but also like gave them lots of stumbling. You know, it's like a pigeon toed person dancing with a bow legged person, like does this it looks like an egg beater? Like is this this is weird? Um? And I guess some it just felt right and fun and then there was a lot of um obviously, just a lot of complication that I think emerged in ways that Andy and Aaron sabotaged the relationships and their their own relationship in

different ways. Um. I loved that chapter. I don't I don't remember exactly how it wound down, but I remember being a little confused about sort of like how how that storyline kind of got wrapped up. And I think I remember not enjoying the shooting the episodes as much where we were in conflict, you know, when there was like real bad stuff happening between Andy and Aaron, it wasn't as fun. It just but I mean, that's that's

just an actor complaining. Um, But I think there was something so breezy and simple and natural about just kind of goofing off with Aaron and finding that comedy was very fun, and then later on tapping into darker parts of these characters that, like I said, they sabotaged the relationship in different ways. It felt a little harder to make funny or harder to make silly, and um but yeah, um. In the New York Times, Paul said about you and Andy, he had so much in common with this character we

wanted to create. I can't remember when they started merging. He has this undeniable likability when he's at his most awful, you can't help but love the guy. I think that's true about me or about Andy, Well, I do. I that's a really flattering thing, and that's uh and it speaks to what a sweet and wonderful person Paul is.

But I that is my greatest hope for the character of Andy, that that he can be kind of wretched but in a way that you can tell is in spite of himself, and that he really does want to be better. You know, That's the part I think I connect with the most and feel like it's the most I have the most in common with Andy is like I I I stumble through the world socially and in

relationships and all of it. I think, like most of us, I just I always I am frustrated at myself when I screw it up, whatever it is, and whether it's a simple social interaction or a big meaningful thing in my life, whatever it is. I but I want to be better. I just want to be better, and I try to be better, and I still fail a lot. Um. It's why I'm so grateful to everyone in my life who loves me, because it's always stumbling through all of it. But um, Andy at his core wants to be good,

He wants to be a good person. He wants to say the right thing, and only occasionally does he nail it right. There's times where Andy was not just beautiful in his expressions of love, but sometimes really tender and like a good listener. Right, And that's not something we associate with Andy Bernard at all, but those are those are moments where I think his better angels are really intervening and kind of guiding him because but they're there like his his desire to be better and his instincts

are constantly fighting his reactionary impulses. All right, we're gonna stop there for now. Sorry. I know Ed is amazing to listen to, and what I love is the love that he has for Andy Bernard. You know, there were a lot of people who didn't love Andy Bernard, but Ed Helms loved Andy Bernard. And that is the sign of a true artist and great actor. Lesson lesson one from me, Never ever judge your characters. Just find a

way to fall in love with them. But we are going to hear more from Ed h in an upcoming episode, so stay tuned for that. Thank you to Ed for joining me for part one. Although you'll you'll be back for part two uh and thank you all for listening. We will see you next week. The Office Deep Dive is hosted and executive produced by me Brian Baumgartner, alongside our executive producer Langley. Our senior producer is Tessa Kramer. Our associate producer is Emily Carr, and our assistant editor

is Diego Tapia. My main man in the booth is Alec Moore. Our theme song Bubble and Squeak, performed by my great friend Creed Bratton, and the episode was mixed by seth O Landscape from Cavalry Audio, the studio that brought you The Devil Within and The Shadow Girls comes a new true crime podcast, The Pink Moon Murders. The local sheriff of leaves there may be more than one killer. They were afraid he's face it out in that area. The family was targeted, most of them targeted while they

were sleeping. The Pink Moon Murders is available on February twenty second, and you can follow The Pink Moon Murders on the I Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hey Lee, the listeners take here. Last season on Lethal Lit. You might remember I came to Hollow Falls on a mission. Well, I'm finding out that in this town, the dead don't keep their secrets

for long, and the bodies keep piling up. The second season if Lethal Lit is available now on the I Heart Radio app, Apple podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows. Hi. I'm Hillary Clinton and I'm so excited to be back with a third season of You and Me Both. When I started this podcast, we were going through some tough times, and let's face it, we still are. And here's what I know. We cannot get

through this alone. So please join me for more conversations with people who will make you think, make you laugh, and help us find a path forward. This season, I'll be talking about the state of our democracy with experts and with people organizing on the ground. We'll draw inspiration from some amazing people like Olympic star Alison Felix and Grammy Award winner Brandy Carlisle. And we'll get into the hard stuff with writer Cheryl Strait and my dear friend

and colleague, Huma Aberdeen. So join us. Listen to You and Me Both on the I Heart Radio app, Apple podcast or wherever you get your podcasts