Claire Scanlon

for the advice. And he was like, well, that's not what I meant, and I don't understand what a podcast is. But you seem happy, so that's great, kiddo. Do you ever do that? Well, you could at speaker dot com. That's spr e A k E. R ask your dad. You actually don't. Hi. This is Ali went Worth, host of Go Ask Alli. My listeners want more, so we

are digging in comedian Amy Schumer. As far as cancel culture goes, I think that the people who are the most afraid and complaining about cancel culture are the ones who are in danger of being canceled, and they need to take a look at themselves. I agree with you. You know, I'm not worried about it because I know my intentions and I know that I'm like open to evolving. Listen to Go ask Alli every Thursday on the I Heart Radio app, Apple podcast or or wherever you get

your podcasts. Check out the new podcast I Am Kobe. Do you want to understand how Kobe Bryant achieved his unequal determination? How did he come to his incredible passion to win? In I Am Kobe, we reveal intimate, never before heard tapes of Kobe when he was a teenager, just as he was starting to glimpse his own greatness. It's about the making of an icon. We weave together these tapes with Kobe's high school coaches, his friends, and

the figures who knew him in his youth. All episodes are out now so you can binge the whole thing. Listen to I Am Kobe on the I Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts and wherever you get your podcasts. We can say whatever you want. Your name and what you are on the Office. My name is Claire Scanlon and I was an editor on the Office from season five for five years through the finale was so long? Okay, okay. My name is Claire Scanlon and I was an editor

on the Office. Hello everyone, that just made me laugh. Welcome back to the Office deep Dive, where we dive deep into the office. As the title indicates, I am your host, Brian Baumgartner. Today I have the absolute pleasure and privilege of bringing you my conversation with the one and only Claire Scanlon. Oh she's just great. Just wait, um. Claire was an editor on our show, a great one in fact, she won an Emmy for editing the final episode.

But one thing that was so special about the office And I know I've talked about this, but but you really you need to understand just how rare it is. There was a synergy, a real synergy between all of the members of the cast and of the crew. Everyone talked to everyone, Everyone had input and value. Everyone could

try on a new hat if they wanted. Even I a lowly actor, I could walk right up to the writer's room and tell them what I thought about something, or the editors area the editing bay as we call it. And I have real conversations with Claire or with our other amazing editor, Dave Rogers about the show. So ideas came from all different people, all of the time, right up until the very end. So the fact that Claire and I even have a relationship her as an editor

and me as an actor. That speaks to the extra special specialness of our set. And speaking of people taking on different roles, well, Claire are also directed a couple of episodes of The Office, Yes, her first ever directing job, which of course has launched her into a full blown directing career. Yeah, Claire is kind of a big deal.

If you watch television, there is no doubt you have seen something she has done, maybe The Unbreakable Kimmy Schmidt or Brooklyn nine nine, or The Mindy Project or her recent film Set It Up. Oh and did I mention that she won an Emmy for editing the finale of the Office. She's just too good. She's too good at at everything. Anyway, you will understand how stoked I was to get to see her and to talk to her. It was truly my pleasure. Here is my friend, the

incredibly multi talented and impossibly brilliant Claire Scanlon. Bubb Lunch, squeak, I love it, bubble and squeak, bubble and squeaker cookie, every moment left over from the nat How are you good? Are golfing? What's going on? Why is it always about golfing, working card outside. Really that red you are just very tan, That's what I was, right, Well, um, oh my gosh, how are you good? Goods really good? I was like teasing. I was like this because in the emails like conveniently located,

I'm like gregg them all. Yeah. I brought a ton of pictures too, and yeah, yeah, it was really actually fun going to I haven't and weirdly, I have a lot of pictures of you really, just like I was, it's time to tell you the truth that I was totally obsessed with you and stopped you. You just didn't know what I did it very surreptitiously. Really, Yeah, see your pictures. I know, I'm pulling them up right now. The office. Um, there's one just that's like a rap

some and you in the middle. This is like one of our story boards, you know, just like classic office storyboard.

That's the very last mix session, that's for the finale. Yeah, that's Matt So in case you could recognize him, he was Colonel Sanders, which having had just worked on I'm trying to be trying to be very diplomatic about this, but having just worked on another handheld show, it makes you really appreciate Matt and Sarah's work because it's such a skill, it's such an art, and so few people can do it well. So few. Well, it's crazy because they came from reality, but they knew how to construct

the story. They knew not to go to you guys until you started speaking, which is such a palletic, artful thing that they never got credit for her because no one appreciates the storytelling they were doing and understanding the level of difficulty except other camera operators that would come and work on the show and fail. The editors really knew it, and the other people who tried and couldn't do it would like cut to you and be like, no,

he Kevin hasn't spoken yet. You can't cut to Kevin because how do these the documentary filmmaker know that Kevin's going to speak? Right? I talked with Matt about this also, and I'd kind of forgotten about this. Really. The only way they cheated was they would have us do handles occasionally, right, so like Michael, yes, just to give them a reason to get over there, always looking for the reason right right,

that he knew to do. That was awesome. Do you feel like was editing on the Office more or less difficult because of the way that it was. Because it was incredibly difficult. It was not easier than a more studio style Hollywood typical Hollywood sitcom or single camp show, much much more difficult. But that said, you had so

much creativity and so much leeway. I think because Greg and Paul and Jen really respected the editor, the act of editing, the storytelling of editing, they gave so much leeway. So and they and especially Greg was not reverential with his scripts and himself as well, like when he would come into post like take that talking from act one

and put it in three. And I remember doing casual Fridays and it was kind of too many storylines, way too long, and I was like, you know, this one needs how I was like, I don't know, you know, I had cut this behemoth. You know, at towards the end they were all getting to be like forty minute long episodes and you're cutting a show out of the show. But this one in particular, I felt like, I don't know what we're going to do. And he was just genius.

Like there was one Kelly Poor story that just became like almost like two shots and it was just like a little pop and it was so good as a result of it, and he just moved stuff every which way. Once you see that your boss is doing that, it kind of gives you a free er hand to do it yourself. Because I came on season five, so that's great point. So before you started you were editing documentaries.

This was the very first scripted television show I ever edited, period, So I like literally went from no scripted to the number one company. It was just like, wow, try by fire first, one go for it. I knew that if I didn't do a good job, I wouldn't get as back.

Like it was that simple. And Dave Rogers was amazing, and he always would watch my cuts, but initially, especially to me, like this is what we do, stays, don't cut away, don't pre lab stay on the joke till the end, you know, Like that was just something it would take kind of just like a more seasoned person to know. But then in other ways, I think because of my background, I was very comfortable with all of the shooting style, whereas I think other editors that would

come on would be like WHOA, what the heck? Um? I remember my job interview with Jence Alatta, Mike Sure, Paul Everersen, and Greg Daniel. So not an intimidating group at all to be interviewing me. I literally like almost knew too little to be intimidated, Like I should have been shaking that ground like, but I almost was. Just like I knew Paul socially from an Inner of Twine niece. I knew him when he was writing. Clarisa explains it all personally. So what happened was a good friend of mine,

Grady Cooper, who ended up editing quipond Um. He said, Hey, Claire, I heard there's a spinoff of the Office. Would you mind putting my name in the hat and giving it to Paul? And I called Paul and said, hey, my friend wants to put his name in the hat for the new show. And he's like, well, what about you? I was like what And he's like, what about you don't want to put your name in the hat? You're an editor too, And I said, okay, I never It just didn't even cross my mind that I would even

have a chance. So Paul was conspicuously quiet in that meaning because I knew him, you know, socially and I met Greg and Suzanne at Paul's birthday party one year. I think, um, and to me, they were like the grown ups, which is so funny. They were like the pomps. They had a kid already like I was in my twenties, and they were just so mature. They were so mature, and I remember thinking like, oh, that's the dad when I went into the interview, like that, he's you the dad.

And so I met with them. I said, I don't have any narrative editing background. I don't have I'm not this isn't my forte and I come from documentary. In fact, I've worked with a lot of your camera operators because we were all under the same roof at Mark Burnett Productions. And um, Greg's like, that's a plus that you've never done narrative. And I do come from documentary. I don't really come as much from reality. I've done tons of

docs before, and weirdly docs on comedians. UM. I gravitated towards like Carol Burnett, a woman of character, Carry Grant, a class apart, Bob new Harden Button and it didn't. I didn't set out with comedy in mind when I was I just kind of veered that way, like just like I don't know, it just kind of followed my

lap that way. So Greg was very keen on the fact that I hadn't come up through the system, and I can see now in retrospect why that wasn't attractive quality, just and that you do thwart the script structure, which is like the script is Bible, and no other show runner lets who do that? Like can you imagine being on another show saying, oh, I put that three even though you wrote it in act one. But Greg two

was also very reverential to the script on set. You know, if a director didn't shoot the words, he was pissed. But all fund runs improv is great, but you better have gotten at least one or two takes with the scripted.

And then in post he didn't care, like and post he's like, let me see it the way it was written, Okay, now let's throw everything up in the air and start over again, which was so liberating, and I think that's also what led to just a whole level of another layer of comedy that other shows didn't have that opportunity for, Like, you couldn't have done what we did with the b roll and the talking I mean, you could take a show that was way too long, if it was too

much exposition, you just had someone do a talking head and then you could delve right into the scene. Mid scene you could just get rid of so much of the shoe leather. So it was just such an unusual will show that way. I think obviously that mockumentary style worked because it worked for Parks and rec and Modern Family quite well. You know, other shows really were able

to take that on and move forward with it. Yes, I mean, I don't know that I would say better than The Office, but I would just say it was clearly a format that worked in comedy, and other comedy stemmed from that, right. I think that for me, what's interesting is that we had rules in terms of how the camera worked, things that we were not allowed to break. Randall's talked about like, no, I'm not going to do

a shot if I can't physically get it. If we have two cameras and one camera shooting from right behind Steve, then we can't shoot Steve front on or we would see the camera. And he talked about one of Greg's sort of adages early on was everything that makes it harder makes it better, you know, if the ang goal wasn't perfect and you didn't have everybody's face. I think that led led to the voyeurism and the realness of it. And I think the show's after the Office that emulated. Yeah, no,

Parkinson MC didn't quite do it the same, which is fine. No, No, they didn't do it. And I think Modern Family they did a monitored family. I directed when and I remember going in and you know, it's essentially construct that very heavily borrowed some you know, from the Office. I think they would all be very comfortable saying that. And I remember being like, well, let's get an over of cam doing this, and that we don't do overs. It's basically

a percinium. It's a multi cam just with no audience, and that you have two cameras only just shooting a semicircle. It's just it was a very different way of shooting, very perm like being on stage. But they also don't acknowledge that the cameras there except in the talking yeah, yeah, and the talking heads. I feel like Phil Dumpy sometimes just stars in the camera, but not like Guilty. I

feel like he's done that a couple of times. But I'm no expert on modern family I did one, but I do think that well, I think there were so many special things about the office that are unlike other ones that have used that, you know, I think there was a willingness to be ugly. I think that's why the camera operators and the dps never got acknowledged, and nobody was going out of their way to be not under fluorescent lights. I mean, it was not a pretty set,

and if it was, it would have been weird. So do you think they didn't get appreciated because I feel like so. I worked with director of photographies all the time, and you always want them on your side. Yet at the same time it's a constant battle with comedy. When I come onto a project, my goals, my objectives are almost diametrically opposed to what the dp's job is. The dp's job, especially if there's a woman in the scene,

is to make her beautiful. Nothing else matters. Nothing. Whereas when you said you had Randle in here and you were talking about soon, they understood and accepted the world of the office and the goal was comedy, Whereas I find myself having to say, I need this scene cross covered. I've got two comedy giants. Fill in the blank. On the office, it was everybody was a comedy giant. So I have two comedyans and I need I can't anticipate what they're gonna do and say, like I need that coverage.

What if one does something and there's an electricity in the take and you cannot recreate that, I don't care. When cutting the Mindy Project pilot, it was Ed and Mindy in a scene and they did all this beautiful studio style, but Ed and Mindy were griffing and doing great fun runs and I was screwed. You know, I was screwed. So I'm always pushing, especially when there's such strong comedy people to cross cover, and a DP will

always fight. A typical DP that doesn't buy into the comedy and the joy of what it is to shoot comedy will always fight. But she's got to look beautiful, she's got to be lit this way, and it's always she for the most part. It's like, I don't know where it's taught in cinematography school, but all women must

be beautiful always at all times, like it's evil. Like Carol Burnette never adhered to that, and she was the number one person on television throughout the seventies, like think about Unice Unite was hideous, and she was the first to make fun of her aesthetics. And yet she could come out every evening and do her Q and A and be gorgeous in a job Bob mackiegown, you know, so like you knew she could bring it if she wanted to be beautiful. But where's the fun and that

I don't know. It's a struggle, it's and it's truly a conversation I have to have every time, you know. So, I just you caught me on a terror on something that I feel very passionately about. And I think coming up through the office where it was a given, Oh this doesn't look like right, who cares? They're hilarious, Like I don't care. You know, well, that's something that I think, well quite obviously the face of tele in a way

began to change with our show. Yeah, And I also think the egalitarian nature of the office was something wonderful and desperately needed. And I think what was so wonderful as how all the characters just very slyly and almost it just seemed like so organically like it just seemed that you sort of just started to fall in love with the regular guy and the regular girl, you know, so like and on the office, the regular guy of the regular girl could be Stanley and it could be Oscar.

And I think this was a time when you weren't seeing that much diversity in primetime television, especially in comedy. But see, it's interesting what you're saying right now. It never felt intentional. No, that's what I'm saying. I think it was like, well, I said slightly, but I don't know that it was Greg or your intentions, the writer's intention to be like, let's make America love the everyman. This wasn't like Willie Lohman time. You know, I don't

think that that was their agenda. I do know, And I'm sure Gregg's talked about the differences between season one and season two and the Mandate, because I think that was huge, you know, humanizing Michael in a way that you needed to from season one. And I think even though the Mandate was specifically directed at Michael, this humanitarianism

kind of slipped down to all of the character. Yes, when yours with Holly of course is a famous one, but like even someone who arch as Angela once in a while, just seeing that glimpse of vulnerability and you show me vulnerability. I'm on board with that character for life. And I think the opposite that with every single person practically on the show. Like I remember, I remember when

Ellie came on. She came on just a little after me, and so we were kind of like the new girls, and I didn't know how you guys introduced new characters. I didn't know, like the writers just let them flounder and they waited for the actor to show them who they were. And it either worked her didn't. Obviously with

Ellie Kemper it worked. But I remember getting Secretary's Day and she had a scene where Michael took her like Michael was very resistant but was told you gotta take your secretary out to lunch hot Secretary's Day, it's the rule. And then she has a meltdown and I remember thinking like, oh, she's going to make it because I didn't know, like I didn't hadn't seen much of her work before that.

She was given like, hi, I'm aren. You know. It was a great scene and she was definitely driving it, and he was the reactor to everything that she was doing, and she gave him great stuff to work with, and in this I was like, she's got the chops. She can play with Michael. I mean, she can play with Steve Carrell, so she's gonna make it. So I think that it was a very intimidate. I remember when Kathy Bates came on, she was I hope this is okay to say, but like we were cutting her first few

takes and her voice was a little warbily. She was so nervous and she told told you guys like and everyone was like, you're a freaking Oscar winner. How are you nervous to come play with us? You know this is a low, this is a nice She's like, you don't get it. You don't get it. And I think I feel like even I don't know that any of us got it. Because it was popular and I knew it was good. I knew it made me feel something

in my heart. But just this whole like kids watching it now, and I mean, it can only imagine what it's like to be in your shoes, like not being able to watch down the street. I don't even more so than when it was on the air. Weird. It is weird, yeah, And I think by the way. Of course, it's she's Cathy. It's it wore off. You know, she's

not the one. Did you see on TV? The episodes don't have that, But I just remember being bowled over by that and how it seems so easy from the inside and then coming in from the outside, Well, how was it for you when you came in? I mean, you know, I can speak to this. There were two hires. You probably don't know this, but season five they hired two editors, me and another one, and without me really getting it because it was so new to me, I just saw, oh, well, if we're all good, well I'll

just stay and we'll go in the next season. I'm so dumb, like not realizing, like they're just gonna go with one. This is a test, it's a survivor. It was awful, Like I'm so glad I was ignorant of it. And my very first season, season five, um, the episode I did with Paul Feige was nominated for an Emmy for Best Editing. So like boom, I've never done a

narrative before and I get my first narrative. I mean, like, it's so unfair because I feel like I came into the most Popular Comedy, and then I got nominated for Best Editing, but like I did not even I was like, when I realized that it was kind of it was

going to be one of the other. I was so grateful that I got nominated for an Emmy because I felt like if I hadn't and the other one had, then how do you not, Like I still think they would have hired me, but like that would have been harder to explain, Like, wait, how do you not go with the person that got you an Emmy nomination? It was just like very all good luck happened that year. It was kind of bonders. It's a hard time for hiring, so you need a hiring partner built for hard times.

That's Indeed. If you're hiring, you need Indeed because Indeed is the hiring partner where you can attract, interview, and hire all in one place, and Indeed is the only job site where you're guaranteed to find quality applications that meet your must have requirements or else you don't pay. Instead of spending hours on multiple job sites hoping to find candidates with the right skills, you need one hiring partner that can help you do it all. Indeed partners

with you on every step of the hiring process. Find great talent through time saving tools like indeed, instant match, assessments and virtual interviews. With instant Match, as soon as you sponsor a post, you get a short list of quality candidates with resumes on Indeed that match your job description, and you can invite them to apply right away. Plus, you only pay for quality applications that meet your must have requirements. Join more than three million businesses worldwide that

use Indeed to hire great talent fast. Start hiring right now with a seventy five dollar sponsored job credit to upgrade your job post at indeed dot com slash office Deep Dive offer valid through March thirty one. Go to Indeed dot com slash office deep Dive to claim your seventy five dollar credit before March one. Indeed dot Com Slash Office Deep Dive terms and conditions apply. Need to hire you need Indeed. Look for your children's eyes to see the true magic of a forest. It's a storybook

world for them. You look and see a tree, They see the wrinkled face of a wizard with arms outstretched to the sky. They see treasure and pebbles. They see a windy path that could lead to adventure, and they see you there. Fearless guide. Is this fascinating world. Find a forest near you and start exploring and discover the forest dot Org brought to you by the United States

Forest Service and the ad Council. On the latest season of the Next Question with Katie Couric podcast, Katie dives into Well Katie Here exclusive podcast only conversations between Katie and the people who made her memoir Going There Possible. We spent a lot of time together around a dining room table here and in the city, and you know,

it was a very intense experience. All episodes of Next Question with Katie Couric are available now Listen on the I Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. So you learned to edit scripted shows on the office, but really coming from you know, documentary, specifically

comedy documentaries, this felt comfortable. Yeah. And also, by the way, like that same camaraderie that led to such a strong ensemble, it extended through I remember talking to John about this one time and we were just sitting I think he directed an episode. You know, I was ahead, so I would come to set John, I think you need to get this shot, you know, like you need to get this because otherwise how do we It was the bulldozer.

Rain was taking a bulldozer in the warehouse and smashing it to the wall, and you needed the reverse and and I was like, I think you need that reverse and we were in there and he's like, oh yeah, no ego, Like it was fine for me to tell John and he needed this shot. Like I would come to set a lot, Dave would come to set a lot, and there was like that's not normal, like that you always are inviting that. By the way, I always asked

the editor to come to set. Why wouldn't I want an extra pair of eyes that might be catching something? Because I'm in the thick of it with five other questions, like why wouldn't I want someone having my back. It's just a lovely thing to have. It's not about ego or power being a no tour there's no such thing. First of all. But with John, we were cutting his episode and I remember just being like this is such a cool place to work, like being just truly grateful.

And I was like, I am happy to come in here every day. And I was like He's like yeah, he's like, there's not one person like that you want to like put your head down when you see them walking down the hall. He's like, there's not one person that I'm like avoid, like where you're like in high school or your first job or something, or like that person sucks. He's like, there's not one. There were over

a hundred people there and he couldn't come. And we, by the way, we were totally gossiping, like he could have told me that there was no reason. There's no I mean, I wouldn't tell this story if he actually named somebody, like but like we were like, come on, there's got to be somebody. Like everyone had their charm, you know, like everyone had the quirks. They're piccadillos. Greg could drive me crazy and I would talk to him

about it. But like that's crazy right there, Like the show runner could drive me crazy, and then I could say, Greg, you're driving me crazy. Like I remember on the finale, there was this whole tangent and I'm sure you'll remember this about planting a tree. Andy sees the tree in the office and says that tree planty, Yes, exactly, Planty

has been in here all its life. We've got to set Planty free, and you guys go out to the parking lot, you plant Planty, and then you go all the way back up to the office and then the ending and you hug, and then you go to the parking lot and you go to your respective cars, and that's truly the end of leaving under Mifflin and UM.

I was writing notes down and we were over time for the finale and we were all Greg was incredibly emotional, but doing that guy thing where you don't let on that you're emotional, so you're just kind of weird, you know, like where you're just like heratic and sometimes irrational, but like what you really want to say is I'm really sad, but you're not going to say those words because you're

a guy. So I was just taking out notes. We were too long, and I'd already pitched to cut Planty, and I truly believed he said okay, while we tried cutting Planty, and I wrote it down and I did it and it was better because not because that whole storyline wasn't interesting, but it was just almost just the physicality of being in the office, having Creed play the song and then taking planting down to the parking lotning. It was like a hiccup to something wonderful. You didn't

need that hiccup. It just it was just an unnecessary extra beat. As sweet and poignant as it was, there were already like ten sweet and poignant moments that were happening with Creed Song, and too much poignancy diluted what was there. So I cut planting, and Howard happened to be walking by, and I showed it to Howard, and Greg's assistant Alyssa was also walking by, and I showed it to her, and they both separately went to Greg and said, oh my god, it's so much better without planting.

And he came storming into my bay and he said, you put that back in? How dare you? I never did. You're sabotaging me. You're trying to get And I was like what he was at a hundred? I was like, bring it down. I said, first of all, I would never intentionally do something to sabotage you that. I was like, if you don't know that about me by now, I am just I am not that person. I'm just I don't even think I could sabotage someone if I tried like if that was my goal, I said, you created

this show. I am here to service what you created and help you realize what you want. An he calmed down, like he was like, so first, let's get this paranoia out as that they happened to be walking by, which was true on both counts. They have maybe and that would happen all the time. By the way, we would just be wide by whether doors open, because it would get in sufferably hot and interesting things that I would walk by a people's bays and poke my head and

it was just a very inclusive environment. When people are waiting for their next scene and they were born of being in their trailer, they'd come and show me something and it wasn't show me myself. It was like, hey, what you got this funny show me a funny scene, Like I just want to see what's going on in the show, Like actors would come in all the time. So he said, okay, well show me, and then I showed it to him and he's like, okay, leave it out.

But like it was like I had to talk him off, alledge. I think that's what makes him so interesting is he does clearly have and I think it was for the better ultimately for the show. This I don't want to say inferiority complex, but this like someone's always going to try to get one over on me kind of thing going on, Like and you're just you almost have to, Like, like with every coworker and or boss, I think you kind of have to just to really get to know

their psychology. And you're working with this, you know, pound gorilla, Greg Daniels, who's so so so smart and so funny that like to stand up to him require some hotspun your own, and it's kind of empowering. And I always did it. I didn't always, you know, I had confidence in what he had created, so I wanted to make sure it was the best version of what was written and acted. And I'd make good arguments and then he'd make great counter argument. We have a really good discourse

to get to lock. And I think that was also very unique and special. You know, I always have Greg in my head when I'm directing, because I heard his opinion on everybody else's, you know, as an editor, I heard what he thought of every director, and he thought the world of many and then like sometimes he'd be like, how could they not have gotten that? Like and I always in my mind like, let's just do one more, like and thinking like what didn't I get? What would

Greg be? Like? How can they have gotten that? You know, I always want to have that showrunner in the back of my head saying and that show runner's voice because Greg was my first is always Greg. Right. Did you feel anything? Um? I mean you were the only woman editor. Was that a thing for you? Did you feel no?

If anything? Like? I remember like so much personal stuff going now for me, Jenna coming into my office, shutting the door and be like this is what you need to do, like just giving it to me, no nonsense, I mean, if anything, I feel like, um, gender was just not even an issue. And you know, when people saw that it was a problem, it was such a close knit group that people actually did something about it.

Like they didn't just like sit and let you like kind of fester in a corner, and they were like, hey, let me poke you, let me help you. I think any I wish more women directors had been there. I wish it wasn't just me, Mindy and Jen. There were three women directors and we were all in house, right Denny came there was one woman director. There were a few, but before before your time, I will say, and I mean, this is not to besmirch anybody, and I'm not trying

to be controversial. And you've heard how wonderful. Of course, I will say, I just don't think in two thousand and four people were thinking like this, like I just don't think it was. It was like, here's your here's your stable, here's the people they do comedy. Go. But that said, I will speak to the writer's room. The writer's room was conspicuously lack of diversity, homogeneous white guys from Harvard, Like, that's just a And when I got air,

Ellie said, Hey, my sister is a writer. I feel weird. Would you give her worked? Paul, who's the show owner then? And I said, Paul, You're male to female ratio in the writer's room is abysmal. And this is really I read this. It's a one. It's about a dog committing suicide in a pool. It was really funny. And I was like, this is Carrie Kemper. It's atle sister, but it's good, Like, don't let that, you know, don't let that nepotism scare you off. And he had no nepotism

our show. Really that said he interviewed her. It was good because that would have been a hard thing if she hadn't been able to write. But it got better, and I do think that it was just like, I don't think there was malice. I think that's the way it happens in every writer's room and every and it's like, hey, I got a show. The people I trust came out of school with me. Oh, I just happened to go

to Harvard and write for lampoo. I don't think it's malicious, like Conan O'Brien's like, hey, Greg, come out, I'm working on this great show called The Simpsons. She was check it out Thanking of the Hill. Then, I don't think it's an agenda. I'm just glad that Um it got better over the course of the years. Yeah, what we talked about this a little bit, but I don't want to miss it. If there's something what specifically made editing the Office harder than a traditional show, um, I think

it was the volume. Let's start with the volume of the scripts were long, so I think you were I think you'd have like seven days to complete your cut, so you figure if it's a forty page script, which more and more often they were. You were cutting a forty minute assembly or editor's cut, and then from that there were just so many steps to get it to time, and cutting twenty minutes out of a forty minute show

is it's kind of bonkers. I mean, that's why I think the NBC dot com came up, The Accountants and all of those great spinoffs, which at the time webisodes were great. I mean we do webisodes and deleted scenes like I mean, it was you could use the word overshooting. I mean I liked it because I remember Ed was once saying like, this is crazy that we're shooting. This is crazy. That's what we're doing. This is not fair. We were working as to the book, like it's not

it's not normal. But it made the show better because we had so many different Like I remember, there was a storyline it was Jim and Pam had a silent fight, and it was established you track it throughout the day. It was really well done, well directed, well acted, and at the end of the day, Jim or Pam I can't even remember at this point says I'm really sorry, and they hold hands in the parking lot as they walked to their car. And it's resolved or I don't

even know that anyone apologizes. I think it just looks and no one will ever know about storyline, you know, like all these and that one that one didn't even make it to deleted scenes and now it was really good. Like there were so many good C D E. F. Worry lines ever got to see, right, Yeah, they're somewhere buried in avid Um archives. So you did an interview with on the Wringer and you said, when you do documentaries, you have to be comprehensive and watch everything that the

subject has ever done. And you said, subliminably, subliminably, Oh my god, it's Michael Scott. Subliminally through osmosis. I was getting my comedy doctorate watching the best of the best, comprehensively, seeing everything they've ever done. So as a result, I kept working towards comedy. Um, was there anything in terms of comedy that you learned from the office. I remember I had a quote board and I don't see if I can find it on my quote board. I don't. It was like a white board, and UM, I had

one question I never put who said what? But um, I'll tell you who was? There was one I heard is I do have it. I'll say it directly. I compul some of that air out. And then it says there's a lot of comedy in that air. And it was me trying to get a show to time, and I said, I could, you know, rather than cut stuff, I can pull some air out. And it was Paul Eberstine Who's like, there's a lot of comedy in that air, and I think it's letting things breathe. It's just such

a pacing issue. It's a dance. It's a rhythm. They say, if you know, if if you're a good dancer, you'll be a good editor, or you can't be a good editor unless you can dance, because it's all pacing in rhythm. And that's so true. And that's why those reaction passes was like kind of gold for us, you know, just when a scene wasn't working, just anyone. I mean, there's the famous A gym every two seconds is like commenting for you and you're saying, but I also liked it

when it was coming from someone else's point. Jim was the great entree in the first few seasons, but I feel like everyone had their own particular take on the comedy, which would make that reaction that much more powerful, Like going to create oblivious, you know, that's just as funny, like not like everyone's like, what's going on in there? And he's just like, you're not even paying a dungeon, Like that's funny too. I just found another picture of

you and me. This is and I like this picture so much because this picture is us eating lunch together. Like that's like it was like high school, right, Like we're just sitting and we all like you just sat down and ate with people. You know, that's not the

norm on other shows. It just doesn't. And you know, we were there long enough that people went through big life stuff like not to get into too much detail, but I got divorced on the Office, and I can tell you there's no other job I would have wanted to have been on during that hard time. You know.

I remember going to a table read once and being like, Paul, I have to go to my therapists and he was like, oh go, you know, you know, like just a given, like just such a warm welcoming, just a really really I think from the top down, you know, you had Ken koppas Greg Daniels, Steve Carrell, So which one of those guys is a jackass? It's going to make your

life a living out just those are. I mean. I barely worked with Ken and after the office he kind of took me under his wing when I was starting to direct more and was just like, Okay, you can do this, you know, and he would just like I remember the first show. One of the first shows I got was a show called um oh my gosh, I can't remember what it was called something men in the title. Anyway, it was canceled, but he was helping me prep. He

was just like, Okay, what's your biggest scene. Let's talk through, like just really just kind kind kind and like saying. With Greg Daniels, I did a movie called Set It Up. He came in. The first person I wanted to show it too was Greg Daniels. Like, come into post What's good, What's bad? There's this moment where these two are having this conversation and it's like she, the girl, is holding the guy to task for his bad acts, and Greg's like,

you need to be in a close up here. You need to see the moment where she changes her mind and she's letting him back in. He's so good, Like he's just so good. He's like, you need to see her opening the door, and he was dead right. No one touched that scene after cranking, which is really neat, you know. From the creator of The Bright Sessions, comes a new fiction podcast for all ages. Jump back to and follow Maxie Miles as she starts high school in

the picturess town of Hastings, New Hampshire. Fall is the season in which this small town shines apple cider, pumpkin patches farmers markets. It's idyllic for adults and boring for Max, But suddenly Max's school year starts to look a bit more interesting when a fellow student vanishes with the help of her miss and throw up the classmate Ross, Max

starts to look into the disappearance. Her investigation draws her deep into the dark woods around Hastings, and even deeper into the secrets and lies the course of the veins of this sleepy town. This New Y I missed Rate from right director Lorn Chipping is an audio drama with heart and wit that involves the audience in a way no fiction podcast ever has. Listen to Max and Miles and Me I heart Radio app Apple Podcasts or wherever

you get your favorite shows. Have you ever felt depressed about work only to have your dad be like, why you're so down? So you told him you hate your job and he said, well, you better talk yourself out of it. And then you thought, hmm, I love to talk. I could host a podcast. And then you went to Speaker from my Heart and started a podcast and got good at it, then monetized it, then quit your boring job and told your dad thanks for the advice. And he was like, well, that's not what I meant, and

I don't understand what a podcast is. But you seem happy, So that's great, kiddo. You ever do that? Well, you could at speaker dot com. That's sp r e A k e R ask your dad you actually don't. If I could be you and you could be me for just one hour, if you could find a way to get inside each other's mind, walk a mile in my shoes, wacome mile in my shoe. We've all felt left out, and for some that feeling lasts more than a moment.

We can change that learn how it. Belonging begins with us dot org, brought to you by the Act Council. Welcome Out in machines. So you start much like Mattson Randall them as camera people. In reality you're editing documentaries. You come on the office and then you start directing. You've talked about it a little bit up to now.

It was something that occurred to me. You know, you become a director from a very particular background, right, like editing and assembling and post and Son and Randall like from a really from a camera perspective. But the thing that I remember is people on your side wanting to have conversations with actors about like how act because that was something that was new, right. Did you feel that as well? I remember Ken Coob is giving me some great advice. He said, everyone there has a job to do.

Some guys got to do so and make sure it sounds good. Actors have to be true to their characters. Writers have to make sure the jokes are told correctly and the story is told. Dps to make sure everyone is on camera that should be and it's blocked correctly along with the director. But he said, but the director's

most important job is to represent the audience. And if the director doesn't get it, the director has to raise their hand and be the pain in the ass and say this isn't working, and that nobody wants to do that. Nobody wants. Everyone's gonna look at you and be like, I want to go home to my family. I don't want to do this. We're just and I've had to like be you have to be unpopular sometimes to do that. And I it was such helpful advice, you know. And I remember I was I was setting up a scene

and here comes trouble in the conference room. It was a party, and um Rain came in and he was like, oh no, no, no, I don't think I would be here and we'd already we'd rehearsed it, and he's like, this is working. So he's like, I think I should do this. This This isn't He gave his opinion and I was like, okay, let's do that, and we started and it didn't work at all, and we had to come back to the way I had it done, and and

it was like, oh, I had done my homework. I had a reason for I'd really worked, like I take prep very seriously. And I understand why Rain came at me because he didn't. I didn't. He didn't have confidence in me, Like why should he it was my second episode of Dragon TV ever. And so just learning that dance of like when to speak up, when to stand back, and then slowly gain trust. I mean that's everything, is

gaining trust and then proving myself. Like so I remember was a scene with John and he was walking out with Jenna and and he's like, I think we should. You know, John a lot of the times had really good ideas. I wish he came up with them before we lit. He'd always come up with such he was like he would dial in when it was actually the cameras up and at Jim would never do this, and

we would always say, you're absolutely right Brown University. Why didn't you come back and bring that Brown University education to the rehearsal? Where was your head in? So um, He's like, I think it would work better this way, and he said, let's let's try that and and let's do John's way, and then he did it a couple of times say like your way was better. So like it was just like finding that like dance of like working with people gaining trust. And then after that I

felt like, Okay, I could do this. But I remember the first day was like starting with talking heads It was very gentle entree into directing, and Paul would come for every rehearsal and there were lots of safety nuts for me that first week. But I remember halfway through the day of my first day ever directing, already two questions or lobbed your way that morning and I was like, I can do this. I can do this. It was lunch. I was like collecting myself and I was like, why

would anyone want to do this? Like I was literally and then by the end of the day I turned the corner and I was like, I want to do this, like but it was that halfway mark was like brutal kind of like Okay, I can I can do this. I can do this, and then coming around and be like, oh, not only can I I want to And that's what you do now. And that's what I mean. I never stopped loving editing. I love directing, but I really there's something there's your building a world in an edit bay,

and um writers create out of the blue sky. But I feel like editors are like sculptors that work with negative space and they shave it away and it's a different kind of writing, and I think there's something wonderful about seeing what something can be and realizing it. Like I felt that way so strongly. I was so proud

of the finale of the series. There's this one pam talking head that like, I can't wait to show my daughter when she's older, where she says, you know, this has been such an amazing experience and the documentary has been so invaluable. If I could talk to my younger self, I wish I could have told her to seize the moment sooner and just stand up for yourself and go for it. Like it was so powerful. I just even thinking about it makes me like misty because it's just

like I was a woman. You were just not seeing that on TV, you know, and it was such a powerful message. So it was a really that was a really special Just the whole ending was sad and special, and it's all a blur because we're also pulling all night ers when we were doing it, But it was so worth it, and I think we all knew when it came to an end that one it was the right time, and to that we've all been part of something extraordinary. You're proud of how we ended? Oh my god, yeah,

are you? I mean the last two I mean, ARM could have been a RM, could have been the finale as well. I feel like both episodes are so strong, but like having Steve come back was great. That was such a special day too, you know when he came for the wedding and you guys didn't know. You guys know some some some people knew. Obviously the studio didn't know, the networking studio. We're piss We hit the dailies, we went to another we outsourced thumb. They never knew until

it aired. They saw the morning it aired. They were so pissed. They were piste. Well what we didn't want them to promo it, and it would have you know, he would have been in the promo. And Greg had such a guilty conscience and he's like, all these people are asking Steve's coming back and we have to lie and say no. And he's like, Ken, don't you feel like an awful person for lying to everybody? And kids like not at all. I feel I feel nothing. I don't care. He didn't want them to ruin it. So

what we did was right. Yeah, it was great and you won for that episode, Yeah, Dave and I So I was kind in the first half and Dave was cutting a second half and then Greg swapped us halfway through and he said, clear, you finish, and Dave you start with the beginning. And it was like a mind funk because that's the air, you don't I've seen all the dailies. I've seen every inch of it, and then

you're just swapping it out and it was crushing. But then it was great, you know, like fresh eyes and everything. So I think that was really great. And Dave and I hit at that point we're just like ying and yang. We were very very new, very much what each other's strengths were. And he just he'd been there since season one, so I mean, he just was such a He's an encyclopedia.

He's so much better at me. Like people will throw out a certain episode like okay, what season, Like he just knows that said, I also haven't gone back and watched them in a long time, like form for me, someone bring up some serious emotions like niagara or something like.

That was such a great episode to edit. It was wonderful because there was music, like I also cut the scene in arm even though Dave and I would share like so if I was ahead, I would just take some scenes from him, and I was I was good at doing I've done all these like documentaries where you had to do these opening montages. So for the Jim and Pam the video that Jim gives Pam, I cut that to snow Patrol in Dave's episode because I like

doing those things and he hates doing those things. And um, and I got to do the Niagara the dancing thing to the Chris Brown song and that was really fun. And I remember getting to use Randall's footage that he shot. I feel like I'm super eight. And Niagara they went to Niagara Falls, and I think he I know he shot film. I don't think it was super sixteen, but it could have been Super sixteen. Yeah, you know, it

was probably super sixteen. It was not shitty enough to be supree and I remember seeing and so this was very much like cutting a documentary because they didn't speak. So um. There's the last scene of Niagara where Jim and Pam are on the bow of the boat and he puts his arm around her and he looks right into the camera and he just like it's not even like cocky, it's just like sweet, like hotter, you know, and Jim John and Jenna came into my bay to see it. They were like, we need to see this show.

We need to sign off on this big, big one. And after that, I'd like turned around and they're bawling, and I was like, yes, because that's all you want to do is make people cry. Like you working comment, but like for the poignant moments, all you want is to make people cry. It was awesome. It was awesome then coming in there and seeing we kind of shared this and no one else will know that, you know, but it was really a sweet moment to be a part of in their journey, you know, and just almost

be just a witness to it. What grows in the forest trees, Sure you know what else grows in the forest, our imagination, our sense of wonder, and our family bonds grow too, because when we disconnect from this and connect with this, we reconnect with each other. The forest is closer than you think. Find a forest near you and

start exploring. I Discover the Forest dot Org. Brought to you by the United States Forest Service and the AD Council from Cavalry Audio, the studio that brought you The Devil Within and The Shadow Girls, comes a new true crime podcast, The Pink Moon Murders. The local sheriff believes there may be more than one killery. It's been four days since those bodies were found and there's no arrest as it this morning. They were afraid, he's face it out in that area, what if they come back or whatever.

It scared me to death, Like it scared me. I was very, very intimidating to live here. Crazy to think you go to sleep one night, maybe snuggling with your loved one, and never wake up, or maybe you wake up in a struggle for your life, which you lose. Joint host David Radiman as he explores one fateful night when evil descended upon small town, Ohio, killed eight members of an Ohio family in a pre planned execution. The family was targeted, most of them targeted while they were sleeping.

The Pink Moon Murders is available on February twenty second, and you can follow The Pink Moon Murders on the I Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Um put on the headphones. I just want to play one thing for you here. This is from the finale that you cut. I thought it was weird when you picked us to make a documentary. But all in all, I think an ordinary paper company like dunder Mifflin was a great subject for a documentary. There's a

lot of beauty and ordinary things. Isn't that kind of the point? So Greg having written that, it clearly he thinks that's what the point was. What did you think it was? Of the office? I don't know if he talked about this, but he told me that whenever he was stimied or stuck, the moral compass of the show was was Pam. And whenever he was stuck and what would what would Pam do here? He would actually say, what would Suzanne do here? Did he tell you this? Oh?

It's it's like the best love letter? I don't think I'm speaking out of school here. I thought that was like the most romantic thing to say. You know, he loves his wife so much she put her in Pam. He basically created this whole series. You think it's Michael Scott, but it's also Pam. She is the moral compass of the show, and she is the person that you as you want to aspire to be as good as and be it good enough to be with if you're a Jim.

For me, the whole series is all about growing up, and when a character grows up, they don't need to be in the office. I also think that Michael Scott from Me I was nostalgic for because his story, his arc is a beautiful one. You know, he is a person whose mom is screening out his vhone calls at night when he's all alone in his office with no friends or anyone to hang out, no family to go

home to, and you see his pain. And then the next morning he comes in and he asks like a blow hard buffoon, and he tries to force his entire

workforce into being his family and friends. And I forgive him every moment of it because I was led into his vulnerability and I saw his cracks, and I understand why he's doing what he's doing, and I'm rooting for him, and so over the course of it, you see each season he grows a little more, and by season seven he is finally worthy of Holly, worthy of a family. He's grown, He's become the best version of himself, and I'm rooting for him and Holly. So for me, it

was such a clearan exit. You know, it was so well deserved, so well told, so that I wanted to see that journey in others, you know, And and it was nice that there was more space for other people to have those same goals. And it was nice to see Jim and Pam go beyond the fairy tale and see like, whoa, there's bumps in marriage? Like that was really that was great. I liked being able to service more of the characters as a result. But I do think that that's kind of what I was alluding to earlier.

It is giving equal time to lots of people who don't normally get I mean, like just the very fact that I said the more all compass as a woman. I didn't want to be the dead horse. But there's not parody yet, you know. So it's nice that she got that part in the show. And then it was nice that everyone got their stories told, like what what what primetime show had some of the heartfelt moments that

Phillow Scott. You know, how many assistant casting directors get to go on become on a network company start Like I mean, it's just crazy, like the trajector dre and

the impact and the humanity. I keep coming back to that word humanity, but it really is a utopic society, and I think that it's not shocking that kids are gravitating towards that today because I think we see just the opposite every day in the news, and it's it's so disheartening, you know, And I want to go live in scranted in the world of the office, that's the appeal now, I think. So. I mean, it's not about getting rich, it's not about being popular. It's about being

happy and being kind to others. I mean, on very few other shows do you see people being so kind to each other. I mean, I'm not a religious person, but I can see why people kind of go to the church of the Office. Um, when Pam is having a vulnerable moment with Dwight and then he says, you're on your period, you know, it's under cuts. It's like you're getting to all those like feelings. And then of course it's a comedy, so it's okay. But like he's

really trying. He's a jackass, he's really trying, right, right, The intention is there? Yeah, and you're kind of route like, oh, he can almost do this right, almost almost not quite. Yeah, it wouldn't be a comedy if you could, right, I'll just tell you this weird thing that I've settled on here in terms of that that your brain would tell you that the more general would be the more universal.

But with the Office, the characters were drawn so specifically, and that ultimately that is the thing that I think has made it more universal, that it's actually so specific. Yea, instead of pleasing all the people, you're just being true to a character building and telling a story, which ultimately does make it appeal to more people. It's counterintuitive, yeah, but I mean I always get so frustrated and just been working on anything new where you are underest making

the sophistication of the audience. They are smart and they can sniff out phoniness so quickly, especially now and like peak TV. You know, people are just so smart. And I think the Office was ahead. It was ten years ahead of its time. He just was the American Office, I mean in the British Office. Well, and now we're maybe that's it. Maybe it was ten years ahead of its time. And now, because as you said before, the show is bigger now. It is like people will be

like I watched episode I see your Name. I felt like their kids, they're watching it with their kids. My peers are watching They never watched my peers didn't watch it when I worked on it, but they're watching it now with their children. Right. Well, thank you so much for coming to talk to me. Sure, this has been great. I am so happy for you and your success. Thank you. And you're so smart and thoughtful, and I just so appreciate and care for you you and oh, thank you. Right,

that's awfully right back at you. Thank you for thinking of me. One thing I didn't mention is that, you know we still work. We still work in this town, and I see people once in a blue moon, I'll bump into um, Greg the p A or um you know, I worked with Danny Chun from time to time, or a writer that we've worked with. But a lot of times on sets, you know, you'll see someone I've worked with, Kelly, and you go up and you're like, Okay, who's the so and so so and so, like who's like Matt

Sown over here? And like who you know, who's the no nonsense and who can I talk to about this? And it's just like a shorthand. I call it going to the University of Greg Daniels because we all went to school with under him. He was our master, professor, principal, and then we all shot out and went elsewhere, but remembered each other. And oh, that's my school made over there. So I that's the person I have a shorthand with. And when I see that familiar face, it's like coming home.

And I just never, I never, never, never take the office for granted. I don't take any of those years for granted. Every day I walked into that office, I was aware of how good I had it, how good the people, how protected we were, how wonderful it was to be on that stage away from everything, and how kind everybody was to everybody, even when they were in a mood. People were not jackasses. They just weren't. It just wasn't tolerated, which is wonderful. Yeah, oh my god,

thank you so much. Like you're I mean, I forget that you're a real smart I know I'm not. Yeah, Oh, how amazing is she? Thank you, Claire for your wisdom and for everything you brought to the show. I am so happy to be and alumni of the University of Greg Daniels, and I love that we got to have this this little class reunion together from all of us here at the Office Deep Dive especially me since I'm talking.

Have a great week and we will be back next Tuesday with another brilliant woman from the office, but this time, oh, she is someone who was in front of the camera. See you next week. The Office Deep Dive is hosted and executive produced by me Brian Baumgartner, alongside our executive producer Langley. Our senior producer is Tessa Kramer. Our producers are Emily Carr and Diego Tapia, and our intern is Hannah Harris. My main man in the booth is Alec Moore.

Our theme song Bubble and Squeak, performed by my great friend Creed Bratton, and the episode was mixed by seth Olandskip. We've all felt left out and for people who moved to this country, that feeling last more than a moment. We can change that. Learn How it Belonging begins with us dot Org, brought to you by the Ad Council. What's Up, guys. I'm a Shop Bloud and I am Troy Millions and we are the host of the Earnier Leisure podcast where we break down business models and examine

the latest trans and finance. We hold court and have exclusive interviews with some of the biggest names of business, sport, and entertainment, from DJ Khaled to Mark Cuban, Rick Ross and Shaquille O'Neil. I mean our alumni list is expansive. Listen in as our guests reveal their business models, hardships and triumphs and their respective fields. The knowledge is in and the questions are always delivered from your standpoint. We

want to know what you want to know. We talked to the legends of business, sports, and entertainment about how they got their start and most importantly, how they make their money. Earnie Leisia is a college business class mixed with pop culture. I want to learn about the real estate game. Unclear is how the stock market works. We got you interested in starting a trucking company or vendor machine business. Not really sure about how taxes or credit work.

We got it all covered. The Earnie Leisure podcast is available now. Listen to Earnie Leisure on the Black Effect podcast Network. I heart radio, app, Apple podcast, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hi, I'm Arden Marine FROMENTATIONABAL and

will you accept this Rose podcast? And I'm Julianne Robinson, an Emmy nominated director of Bridgeton and where are the hosts of Lady of the Road, a funny and inspiring podcast where we have conversations with influential women about their lives and we get self help advice because we are always looking to improve ourselves. True story. We talk about money, health, relationships, you name it, from inspiring women like Joan Jett, Nicole Buyer,

Lauren Laptez Retta and more. Listen and subscribe to Lady of the Road on the I Heart Radio app, Apple podcast, or wherever you get your podcasts.