Get ready.
September eighteen, twenty twenty four. Allegedly, according to that thing we call a calendar, this is the Ocelly effect, and we are live on a Wednesday, middle of the week. So last night I could not get to the microphone because Coxx Internet was out in my area. So there you go. I revealed who I use, but they had an area outage. Nothing I could do about it. So the news show that I was going to do on a Tuesday, I'm going to have to do on a
Thursday tomorrow night. Anyway, tonight, what we have very special because I screwed up on the dates and thought that I was supposed to have Larry Hancock scheduled for this week. I didn't, but Larry said, let's do it anyway. So I have the author, Larry Hancock, and you can go to Larry dash Hancock dot com keep track of his works, his blog, all of that stuff, Larry Hypenhancock dot com or Larry Dashancock dot com. Either way, you'll see it
in the show notes and his books. Many books take up a lot of space on my bookshelf, and they don't just take up space. They're extremely important, especially in today's very strange times where we're looking at the way intelligence agencies behave, we're looking at the political spheres of influence and things like that. You could have looked at surprise Attack, you could have looked at shadow warfare. You could have looked at a book that might come up
during tonight's conversation, Creating Chaos. Anyway, all of those I recommend every one of those books by Larryhancock and again Larry Dashancock dot com. So what is happening in the news that I didn't get to cover? Am I going to talk to Larry tonight about what's going on with Diddy and how he got his bail denied? No, I'm not, you know, not of interest generally to Larry. Usually I think I don't. You're not a big hip hop guy,
are you, Larry? I'm strangely no, Okay, you know, I know it was an odd ball thing, but maybe anyhow so. But things that are going on in the news, which you're gonna have a lot to do with what we're talking about. No, not another possible shooter with Trump, although that would be relevant. We're not going to discuss that tomorrow night. I'll get to it. But other things are happening.
I'm reading about the Iranians allegedly taking stolen documents from the Trump campaign, hacking somehow, and then trying to offer them to the Biden campaign when it was the Biden campaign. The FBI made that statement a little while ago. Plus we have other allegations of guess what, once again, the Russians being in play and doing this and that, and the Chinese supposedly. Now all of that's happening with the backdrop of let's see the IDF is exploding pagers and
walkie talkies in Lebanon. We have a very strange landscape, folks, a very strange landscape where multiple levels of warfare are being conducted, the psychological, the technological, the military. Not so much in the blatant standard sense at this moment in time, but all of it does lead to some of that stuff. And don't worry, there's plenty of shooting to be had and possibilities upcoming. But as I take a look at the technological end of the warfare, Larry, we're in a
strange time here. I mean, the Iranians are supposedly helping the Biden campaign, the Russians, well putin is endorsing Kamala Harris, but who knows what his intelligence agencies are doing. Meanwhile, the Chinese have something else going that. Quite frankly, I'm having the difficulty get in my mind wrapped around entirely.
Where do we begin to deal with this and the technological the other side of warfare that again doesn't have to do necessarily with live shootooting, but it's definitely shooting lots of technological assets in the put one way or another and causing an effect in the real world. How do we begin to wrap our minds around this, Larry? I mean, should we begin with the Chinese discussion? I mean where do we go?
Well, it's important. I think one of the things that is is differentiate what the Chinese are doing from what the Russians, the Iranians and others are doing, because they have different strategic goals. I think the context for both of these actually, if you kind of cut down to the core at the strategic level, it hasn't changed. It's not really new. The tactics are the same. We've discussed
this before. Back in twenty fourteen, I was writing about political warfare and how political warfare is conducted more in the modern era. I think because of the technologies that are available to us, simply it's simply possible to plant information in a more convoluted fashion than it used to be. In the fifties, sixties or seventies. You had to have, you know, reporters on a string, You had to manipulate a wire service with false documents. You know, that was done.
It was done. But these days you can do it much more efficiently and on a much larger scale. For an example, And I think I think one of the things we have to keep in mind when we're talking about comparing the Russians and the Chinese and Iranians is that the objective for the political warfare that's being conducted with false information or acquiring information and planting it somewhere else, which is somewhat the same thing. The whole design for
that is it really to support a candidate. You know, that's not the way it goes the holes. The whole design for that strategy is to create chaos, to essentially marginalize the regular political process, to bring things into a state where you create a non functional government. The Russians and the Iranians don't really care. Now, it's true that Putin might care about Trump personally, but what they really care about, what the FSB cares about, what the strategy
is to essentially newter the American political process. And if you look at what's been going on for Congress for months and years and now is going on with the budgetary fight, where you know, we can't fund a budget, we can't fund arm spending, we can't fund the defense package because there is so much political chaos in the House and the Senate and it's so factionalized' that's the
whole point. The whole point is actually it makes it It makes it better to have everyone at everyone's throats so that nothing happens, rather than taking a chance that something might happen by having someone in control. So you and I've talked about this before. It's chaos is the goal of the game. Political chaos is away is the strategy. And that's what we see. That's what we see Russia and Iran doing. You mentioned feeding information to the Biden campaign.
Probably much more effectively, though, is what the news stories that came out last week and the week before of how the Russians were funding funneling money in to major right wing commentators who's run.
Now.
That's basically opposing everything the government does now, which is really what the Russians would like to do. Oppose everything that the government does, so nothing happens well.
And this is not unusual in the Russian strategy as far as you know, sort of infiltrating the alternative media what they did for a while and becoming a standard with things like Russia today. RT, right, and the English RT was an essential part of a PR campaign that was being run to sort of bolster Putin, to make him a good guy, to make him because there were all of these anti American sentiments built around the anti Obama sentimentality, Right, this guy was weak, This guy was
a you know, a do nothing liberal, et cetera. We'd rather have a strong man like Vladimir Putin. Look, his RT is telling us the truth when our American is lying to us. All that kind of stuff. And that was well funded and well put out there and was effective for about a decade.
But they have.
Since gone into funding and giving warm interactions and interviews with people like Tucker Carlson once he was not connected to Fox News anymore, and stuff like that, taking the outliers, if you will, and pumping them full of information and contrarian stuff that kind of dovetails nicely with the sentiment they already have out there, the lack of trust with the government. We're being infiltrated, Our government's being infiltrated, our
country's being infiltrated. Well, yeah they are, and you know what, we have more reasonable government over here. They keep making us the bad guys, but look at how bad they are, etc. That's almost exactly what the strategy is. Or am I reading this wrong, Larry.
No, that's the whole whole point of that. And it's evolved over time. You know, it evolved from essentially kind of feeding major media outlets and putting them head to head against each other, right, because again, that's what you want. You want to silo this information. The last thing in the world is you want everybody hearing the full story
that that does not work to your strategy. You want to silo the information so that people just listen to their favorite outlet, So that first that would happen to say with Fox and MSNBC. Then okay, then we can grab hold of figures like Tucker Colson and he moves out of the media landscape. But then we bring him
into our environment. Okay, I think what we saw in the link kind I sent you for the show in terms of what's going on with the figures now, as some of these independent media figures have become so large scale, which sex you are, audience, I think the Russians have determined that they probably are more attractive because they can get to them quite easily, and because they appear to
be totally independent. I mean, the more independent your source is, the better it works if you can control it right, because it's trusted. Because these people are independent, they wouldn't take money from anybody. You know, we're on our own here. And some of the stories that have come out of this though, that one individual was took one hundred thousand
dollars through a deniable chain. He didn't realize it, but it was Russian money, and when asked about it, it's kind of like, well, are you going to donate it to charity or something? The guy's going one hundred thousand dollars means nothing to me. I'll probably never even touch the money. I don't need the money. That's not significant to me, and then goes on to say to the document show that when he was originally approached or somebody's
appreachiably roast with a contract. It was like four million dollars and they said, no, I need at least five million. Dog. Think about this. Think about these so called independent people who are making so much money that it it. Those kind of figures mean nothing to them, yet you can influence them. Well, it's a guy thinking about it.
Yeah, there are guys out there acting like they're basically me, Larry. Uh. You know, I put out my own thing. I do it just funded on really listeners. Listeners fund this all one way or another, Okay, and that's it. That's what I do. And I'm not accepting corporate stuff where they get in and start telling me, hey be nice to Puvisor because you know we're actually a subsidiary of them or whatever. Right, I don't have those influences from advertisers.
So I'm an independent guy doing it on my own, so I can't be bought. I'm not part of the influence machine that you see on the corporate media in any way, shape or form. But guys like me, once they get a large enough audience, they become targets for this because quite honestly, you're not making a lot of money. To start with, you're barely getting by or barely paying
the bills in some cases. And then if you get money funnel to you which appears to be from some source that is just you know, downright wanting to support you and take care of you, you generally accept it quite honestly, right. I mean, look, if somebody came to me and said, I love all you working the JFK stuff, and I've been a JFK guy for a long time, but I'm behind the scenes. I want to fund you because I know you're getting good JFK stuff out there
and we need a voice like you. And somebody like that just basically gives me fifty sixty thousand dollars, Well, that's a huge amount of money to me. And yes, indeed, I might listen to some things they have to say after they do that, and they could be completely seemingly you know, benign, just supporter. Right. Some of these guys got approached like that, or they got given sweet deals with you know, some company allegedly where it's like, if you do this, then you won't have to bend and
scrape to some you know, corporate entsity. You won't have to run McDonald's commercials or utilize the Google machine to try and gain your pennies per download or whatever. We'll just give you the money and we'll give you a product that you like to support, and they get them that way. And meanwhile, it doesn't matter if they sell the product or not, because the real front, that's just the front. The real thing about this is to get in on the other influence game. And the next thing
you know is these guys are being fed other information. Hey, I'm a great supporter of yours. Here's some great information you need to look into. Here's some filmmakers that I think are making great stuff, etc. They'll start to feed stuff to you, and I watch this happen, Larry, to be honest with you, I don't want to name names, but I've kind of watched this happen where somebody comes in and picks somebody up who is in this kind of shape that I've been in all this time, and
raises them up a bit. And I see this list of names, and I realize that some of these people went next level all of a sudden, And you do, wonder where did all that money come from? You know, I mean, it's not Joe Rogan who's getting two hundred and fifty million dollars right, he's got a two hundred and fifty million dollar contract. It's not those two football player brothers who have one hundred and fifty million dollar contract.
It's not one of those. But some of these independent guys, all of a sudden they've got a lot of money and it came from somewhere. And isn't it interesting you got a track where this stuff comes from, and really check into the background of whatever or whoever is like, you know, funding you Otherwise you never know where it really came from. Or am I crazy?
Larry?
I think part of it is, well, one thing is at a certain level they are out of the equation themselves personally. You know, they have a media person, they have an agent, you know, in between them, and people are approaching them with money. And in this one instance, a media company simply approached this fellow and said, I
want to buy a couple of shows. I want you to do a couple of shows on these topics, you know, and it would and and because of this person's approach, and you know, you know what kind of show he's going to do. You don't have to tell him what kind of show he's going to do. You know, if you can just get that topic planted, you know what's going to come out, and he does. It's just it's
another contract I'm getting I'm getting spits. The people want me to talk about all sorts of things all the time, and somebody walks in and says, Okay, we scheduled you to do a show on this. He's not involved in the process. I think in one instance. In one instance, uh, the per personality actually pushed back because it was like a four million dollar d from multiple shows, and it's kind of like, well, who are these people? Well, a cover was created. This is a European individual, here's the
background and and and they actually created a cover. We talked about this last week, right, Chuck. You know the CIA can create covers. Well, these folks can create cover. The the FSB has always been equal to are better than the CIA and creating covers. So they just created a cover, fed it back to them. It's kind of like, well, that's cool. And by the way, I want five million, not four million. Okay, fine, not a problem and money it's not a problem. So you know, at that level,
it just it becomes a matter of production. You know. It's like big media. People are buying shows, they're buying commentary, and the people are just talented and it's all a process and it becomes obvious to intelligence agencies like I say, how they can play this game. And since that, the goal and all of the political action is always keep the playing field moving, you know, don't do one thing too long or you're going to get caught. Be prepared to do another thing, you know, So it makes perfect
sense that they were cycling through just another option. Well.
Right, And there's the fascinating thing again, is if you came to me and said, look, I want you to do a show on political assassinations, and I've got some guests for you, and I'll tell you what we'll do. Since i'm buying, you know, I'm buying a block of shows, I'm going to pay you to do them. Well, I would have already done those shows, so that's great, I'll take them. That might be as easy as it is
to begin with. Right. And then the next thing is, since I've approached you with something that you're very friendly to, maybe I try, well, this is something that you're kind of friendly to let's see if you'll do this, And they feed them a few different things and build them up, and the next thing, you know is they might give them access to some great, really insider, interesting guests too. That's another thing right where it's like, hey, look, it
just so happens. I know somebody who you know, that interview that nobody can get because they're you know, an exclusive with this lawyer who worked for this foundation or whatever that nobody else can get. I'll get them for you all of a sudden, right. And again, if you're an independent media person, you're struggling to survive, and you're really, well, gee, I would have done this show anyway. Plus, they're going to throw me some cash because I'm taking care of
you know, their particular client for a little bit. Not a problem. It's a temporary contract. I'm not signing away years of my life, you know, sure. And I think it gets done about that easily, Larry, what do you think?
Oh? Absolutely, it gets done that easily. And one of the things that makes that at easy is those people have established a pattern in their shows. Right, you know what position they're going to take, you know what they're going to say on a given top you'd you know, it's kind of like RTI interviewing Tucker Carlson. You know, this is no shock as to what the man is going to say, you know, so you just have to
get it scheduled. So these folks kind of by being so politicized, have set them up sells up for this in a way because it's easy to go through. It's easy to go through the list and know what's going to happen on that show. I just have to make sure that the show happens and the topic is covered at a particular point in time. And as I said, it's the sad thing about it is it doesn't it doesn't have to be all that credible. We talked about
this this like last week and terms of deniability. We've reached a stage where I'm not expecting this person to address a broad audience or conduct a thorough or objective discussion. That's I don't want that, you know. So that makes this really easy because I know exactly what I'm buying. When I was trying to control a media outlet for political action, I might have to worry. Even with Fox
or MSNBC, you know, there might be some balance. They have people from one part of the spectrum and other s. So this is not a concern. I know exactly how this is going to go. So it actually makes things easier. We have made it easier for them than it was in twenty fourteen. If you compare what they were doing in twenty fourteen, it was small scale social media. They were actually having to go out to individuals to create
their own foe organizations. Remember last time we talked about this Texas secessionist organization that was being cultivated by the FSB. The trolling that was being done in twenty fourteen, it was minor compared to what's going on now with the ability to reach in and control these kind of people and use them all right, I mean because there, I didn't have to make up any anything fake. I didn't have to have somebody and you know inside Russia trolling and a troll farm. I just routed money to the
right person and bingo, I've got it. So like nowadays, elevated to another level.
Right Like nowadays, I know he's kind of been shelved at the moment, but he's not gone. Alex Jones, Like, if you wanted to approach him, you knew already what it was that he would support. So if any of that fit with your agenda, you could feed extra stuff to him happily, right, And you knew what kind of audience you were getting. You knew what kind of thing he was doing, you know, the editorial staff over there.
Ultimately he was the one guy making the decisions. And that's the thing with a bunch of these other all media guys. They have a couple of volunteers, or maybe they have somebody who worked for them, but it is a very small staff or no staff that makes the decision. If you're coming to me, guess what, I got no staff. So I mean I'd be an easy target if I was willing to say some of the stuff that was
helpful to you. You know, here I am imagining myself as an easy target, right, But this is the truth. And if I had a bit more of a foothold in certain communities, I could be very useful to some of these people because I've already got you know, a bunch of people that you know hear all the time about how America is involved in so many different conspiracies.
The government is, the agencies are. All you got to do is drop another one into me real easy, right, I mean, I'm not so easy about it, but some people are. They literally will have contradictory guests on one after the other and kind of tout both of them as legitimate. And I've listened to them do it. And interesting story coming up toward the end of this week.
I might talk about it on Friday. By the way, is a particular media outlet that had millions of dollars and all of a sudden maybe doesn't, but anyway, not sure if that's because the recent discoveries are not. We're gonna have to keep an eye on it, but it ought to be interesting on Friday. Anyway, I'm watching somebody.
We also have to consider the multiplier effect, which but to kind of sum that up, when you compare this story about what the Uranians did with you know, getting a dossier informations feeding into a campaign, I mean, that is so twenty fourteen, right, compared to what the Russians are doing. The Uranians are just way behind the curve on this one. But talk about the multiplier effect. How can I do this again? I'm wearing my FSB hat.
How can I make things even more chaotic? What could I do to create the kind of I mean, one thing that was evident in twenty fourteen was they managed to use troll form farms to plant things that caused riots, right, And we've discussed that that's in creative creating chaos. There's no doubt about that they actually created race riots a small to medium scale just by seeding the right stories
to the right people, they made it happen. Well, this time, it is so much easier because their targeting can be so sophisticated. They now know that all they've got to do is go to the right media person who is listened to by Donald Trump, Jade events, any politician who's likely to monitor that newsfeed and repeat it. And they know how that's working because they're monitoring their Twitter accounts, their Trump's social or whatever, or it could be, it
doesn't matter. I'm picking that out because a prime example would be to feed them a rumor that they repeat that is going to cause a problem, which nobody can deny that. That's what we're seeing in Springfield, right.
I was going to say, Look, the whole eating your Cat's thing, right, is based on there's one lady who came out with a story and it got run with and it's interesting how it got cycled through social media and the next thing you know is it shows up and it's literally being mentioned every half hour on every news broadcast that's covering the election. Right, they're having to bring this up. They're having to mention it, even if it's just to shoot it down, and it's having an effect.
It's continuing to go on. Now, somebody who doesn't trust say, you know, okay, the liberal media. You know they always lie, so they're going to try and cover it up. Somebody who's in that sort of orientation takes even the repetition of them denying it as confirmation, and this causes it
to be fueled even more. Meanwhile, it started with one lady who allegedly misspoke because now her neighbor came out and said, this was a you know, her misspeaking about my situation even and it turns out that one little thing that one post on Facebook or whatever to start with, has grown into this massive thing now where like I said, every electronic media is having to.
Mention it, Larry, And as you said, it's bi directional, Chuck, It will work either direction once you get it started, and if you step back for a minute here. You you have managed to close down colleges, you have managed to cause people to lose business big time in the capital of a state. You're turning people against each other. And I did that simply by making sure that the right person who has a platform saw the story.
Right.
If I'm kind of thinking, the only job I want inside Russia now is to be an FSB political action officer, because this is like so easy. It's shooting fish in a barrow. You know, I don't want to be in the trenches. I don't even want to be in a drunk this is it. We have made it so easy for them, it's pitiful. And the multiplier effect of these, you know, making sure that these stories, it's like these stories happen all the time. You and I both know that you can go over social media and find things
that are sensational. So it's not that you had to create them. It's even better you don't have to create them, which is what they had to do in twenty fourteen. Now you just pick them and make sure that they get in front of someone who's going to repeat them.
Right.
And they learned how to do that last time. They learned the value of Twitter last time, and they are maximizing terrifically. I mean, heck, now they've got the guy who owns Twitter repeating the stories. I'm not sorry, owns acts repeating the stories. What don' want to get that? Right? So I have to give them from a professional standpoint,
they have learned their lessons. They saw what worked to a small extent in twenty fourteen, and man are they they're profiting from that in this election and not even the election again, as I say, they don't even care about the election. They just want chaos in American society, which translates into a neutralized American government, which is what you get when you tie up Congress, and it's you know, nothing happens in Congress.
Right, And here we go. So how do we parse this out? How do we separate what the you know, what the Chinese are doing from what the Russians are doing from you know, again, the Iranians, as you said, they're kind of working on the twenty fourteen sort of templates, so they're behind the times a bit. But it looks to me like the Russians and the Chinese are on the curve. They're not behind the curve. They're on it. What do you think.
The Chinese are very much on the same curve that the Israelis demonstrated that they were in the last three days. The Chinese understand technology. The Chinese manufacture things right. This is something the Russians and Iranians can't do to the US, you know, that's harder. The Chinese manufacture all kinds of software.
They manufacture all kinds of products that have chips in them that have the bottom line is the Chinese are in an excellent position to connect conduct technological warfare, covert technological warfare. They by embedding software. And that's if you look at the botnet article again that I sent today
that the Justice Department has moved on them today. There have been concerns that they were doing this for some time about I mean, I think the first time that it really came to my attention was when it became a concern that some of the wireless systems that were being manufactured by Chinese companies were determined to have code in them that was questionable, code that could be remotely activated that had nothing to do with the actual functional
operation of the device. And when it became clear that those things were emplaced in wireless towers all around our strategic weapon centers, all around our missile bases, our ICBM basis. So much so that the government and the military began pushing back and trying. Not so much the government at first, the military became surfaced this threat and tried to surface it to the government and to the administration and to the Justice Department. And there was pushback because this is
not just happening in the US, It's happening globally. The same thing was happening to NADO installations. And over the last three or four years there have been a big pushback against some of these, especially Chinese wireless companies, wireless communications, cell phone whatever, companies, big pushback against.
That and right, and that was a hot topic of conversation a few years back with Huawei and why is there this other stuff that's come along with Initially there were drones being purchased and used by the government, right, And they were wondering about the extra software that came along with it. And these things are being used for crowd control. I think back during George Floyd time, right, I mean, and there it was they were speculating, what's the problem with this, This could be a major issue.
We got to get rid of all this stuff because it's going to create back doors, et cetera, et cetera. And meanwhile, our government is foolishly acquiring the Chinese technology not knowing all of what's on board with it. Issue. Yeah, low cost bidding, but it was a real issue. What else are you buying along with the functional drones? Right? I mean this was a real world problem. And then they said, well that could give us issues with them hacking into our grid and infrastructure and so on and
so forth. I mean, that was the big scare. Then nobody's really talked about it since then, and yet here we go. Right, what's going on is.
Over the last six months, there have been a number of instances and it's quite frankly not have gotten the press that I would have expected it would. But we have seen it out here of communities having their water systems taking down, their power systems taking down. It's a hacker.
It's very hard to trace the source of this stuff, but it's it's being done by embedded code, and some of it has been linked back to Russia more or I shouldn't say Russia in terms of the SB It's very hard to differentiate sometimes because a lot of times it's accompanied by blackmail. You know, it's kind of like the scams fulled against the banking institutions. It's sort of like stuff. It's ransomware things, so you don't really know if it's government act or if it truly is you know,
piracy basically. But again, being the suspicious person that I am, if I were doing this as an adversary government, I would use ransomware as my cover. Oh, there are all these bad guys in Eastern Europe that keep doing this. Why are all the bad guys in Eastern Europe? I don't understand. You know, in former Soviet republics.
They have nothing else to do over there, Larry, don't you know they're sitting on it. They're a fat guys sitting on a bed or whatever somebody said.
About I guess that's what it is. But there has there have been a number of instances about that, and there have been warnings. I've seen warnings issued to to community governments, county governments, metropolitan governments. This is it's this is the next step forward. It's not just collecting information, it's putting the infrastructure at risk. So that's kind of
phase two. The first step is as passive. I put code in this stuff that just allows me to you know, it's kind of what's happening with your TV set or with your wireless system. If you can talk to it, it can talk to you. It's listening to you all the time, so it can collect information.
And welcome to go with that center traffic.
Patterns or what what sources using what frequency? Great stuff in all of that. But that's that's kind of like the first here. But the ability to act interfere with infrastructures the second tier.
Yeah, well, until you get to interfering with infrastructure as far as I know anyway, I mean, welcome to modern Google from the pedestrian and commercial side of things that you know, the public gets to interact with every single day. I mean, Google does this right, they track everything. It's it's amazing. But now as far as you know, wanting to do harm or is it there just to you know, turn all of your data into the best commodity possible.
There's the other issue. But meanwhile, these foreign nations not necessarily looking to turn a profit. Maybe they're looking to turn other kinds of profits, right, and.
You never you're never sure when when somebody decides to throw the switch. You know, the Israelis decided to throw the switch, okay, and look what happened. We have and now it looks like it was the capability that they wanted and they found out that they were going to be discovered and they decided to use it. You know,
that doesn't mean that China is going to throw the switch. However, quite frankly, if someday China decides then wants to enforce their territorial domains in the South China Sea and they decide to throw the switch and shut down major chunks of American infrastructure in a fashion that's deniable. What are we going to do?
Right? And meanwhile, some of these things are piggybacked onto other things. I mean, this guy from the Golden Apollo Company, the Taiwanese company, the owner of it, is sitting there going I had no idea that my stuff could have done this or anything else or be involved in this. Maybe it's got something to do with this again, Eastern European company that had a licensing deal with US, but
we didn't do this. It's very strange. Some of these things are piggybacked in with other people's hardware, other people's businesses, and it's not necessarily like, well, just don't buy anything from China then stupid and you'll be fine. No, that's not necessarily the way it works. You could be dealing with something that came through that was you know, sort of just added and comes in like the Trojan Horse, right, I mean you're talking about and talk was exploding in Lebanon,
for God's sake. Could Yeah.
I remember reading a book this is from the fifties, which I thought was I couldn't understand it at the time, but it was called The Death of America, and basically the concept was an adversary nation put a lot of atomic weapons in orbit and started bombarding America. The problem was they had already been in orbit. You couldn't prove who they were, who it was, You couldn't absolutely prove who was attacking you, so you couldn't unleash a retaliatory strike.
You know, you were neutralized. And I thought that was silly at the time, but I mean it's the same concept. You have a real hard time retaliating against that sort of situation, you know, where you can't really for sure determine the aggressor.
Yeah, you can't determine it.
I hope to keep going back to creating chaos. But we saw during starting in about how twenty well, twenty twelve, twenty eleven, that sort of thing that was the sort of thing that happens began to happen in Eastern European nations who had been part of the Soviet Bloc but had had left and we're very happy not to be
affiliated with Russia. And they started getting those kind of infrastructure attacks, and it's quite clear that it was the Russians that were doing it, but it was so highly deniable that you know, all you could say is, well, it looks like it was, and so you can't you can't retaliate, you can't even suffer damages. So and I bring up one of the things that we're looking at.
And I bring up this time on these company because they're over there kicking in the door pretty much going after it and then looking to investigate. Let me tell you, the most brilliant thing would be to turn an American company somehow into the delivery system for something. And of course our DOJ would go after that American company, start investigating, looking around, and they might find that it has nothing
to do with that American company. It's something that was added into them from some other foreign nation that might have two or three steps behind it, in which case you have no idea who the actual aggress you know, like you said, aggressor her perpetrator is, because it's three levels deep and hidden within a shell company that actually delivered this stuff. But they put it in there three years ago. And it so happens that you bought this
stuff this year. You don't even know it because it's so far in the past it should have nothing to do with it. I mean, did I just make that more convoluted than it needs to be? Maybe I did.
Unfortunately you made it just as convoluted as it probably will be.
Right, I mean, but this is the type of stuff we're talking about here, Like I said, this Golden Apollo company, you know, supposedly they're the ones who made the pagers and the walkie talkies or whatever, right, and they have no design on having these things blow up. You know. The guy from the company's like, this would destroy my company. I got exploding devices. I don't want to do this, you know. Basically he's pleading to the press like don't
blame me for this. But meanwhile, it's all his hardware, right, So you know, there you go. So somebody's got to figure out what the actual origin was and is that going to be easy?
Yeah, go ahead, since we're talking about so what's different between the Russians and the Chinese.
Yes, let's get back to the point in time.
Russians are primarily engaged in political warfare creating chaos, while the Chinese appear to be engaged in something a bit removed, which is literally setting up the context for either you know, covertly collecting information or putting them in a position for more proactive damaging action if they should type decide to do it. So they're they're looking a little bit more
like Israel. I think. The other thing that's going on that that that people aren't really into the military side of things are not aware of, is that the Chinese provably have been so active in operating drones over American military targets, infrastructure elements like airports and atomic power plants.
You don't see this in the news that much. It's it's kind of I see it because it sets over in the either the military or the UFO genre of just a constant stream of unidentified objects in military spaces, restricted military space, These atomic power plants operating over our navy forces. That things. What is now being floated and actually as even surfacing in Congress is we need to spend hundreds of billions of dollars setting up a new
nationwide air defense network. And what they have proven is, of course we've seen this in Ukraine. And what they have proven is they have the ability to covertly operate drones at will over the United States, which is a threat. And now we've seen how easily those drones can be weaponized. It is a threat. Are we going to spend money? You know, we during the Cold War we had missile defenses against around every major metropolitan area, hundreds of them,
with atomic warriors to take down bombers. Are they trying to tempt us into doing that again? Do we need to do that again again? It's it's a it's a kind of a mental judo in a way. They can spend virtually no money and really raise our military concerns and potentially our military spending far over What what is causing them to worry us?
No, it's just the whole thing is amazing. It just is I mean so again separating this from what we see in the headlines, right there is the political end of this and all of that, and that's sort of a wave of influence, and then there's a decisively more practical military application here, is there not?
Yeah, it is creating. If we have creating chaos and the political space, we have creating chaos in the military space.
If you if you follow it, you'll see that the air Force and the Army and the Marines, but in particular the Air Force are stepping back from several major programs that they have spent billions on in terms of next generation fighters, next generation tankers because the the battle space is being changed, and it's kind of like, wait a minute, we thought we knew what the battlespace was
going to look like. Now, you know, we don't think the Russians are going to use it against us, but it's very clear that the Chinese have been playing this game and are in a space in the Pacific where they can play it in a big way. You know, we're we're having it's creating military chaos in our strategic
planning and our spending is the big thing. Locke just backed out of a multi billion dollar contract because of a change in basically strategy as far as the Air Force saying, well, now we realize that we don't need that, we need something else. So big aerospace companies are losing major investments because the battlespace is being made more chaotic. And I'm sure our show this evening is doing a
lot to make people feel good, Chuck. You know, well, you know, it didn't really occur to me when we started, but now I'm feeling bad too.
Well, lots of adversarial stuff is happening, right, and what is the purpose of it all At the end of the day, It's definitely not to make things better for those of us, you know, having to endure it here in the United States. I mean, what can I do. I can't avoid the fact that it's you know, not meant to be a big hug and a kiss in Merry Christmas, you know.
And it's like we're being targeted from two directions, two different types of adversaries, two different types of strategies, two different types of weapons, if you will. At the same time, you know, and you really have to be sympathetic as to how any administration could get their heads around this, regardless of politics. How how do you get your head around this? How do you? How do you the Justice Department deal with it? How do the military services deal
with it? How do you? How do you come up with a strategy to concurrently deal with two totally different types of attack, especially when one of them is specifically designed to keep you from doing anything in Congress even if you had a strategy.
Well, see, here's the thing that that that occurs to me, and again this is my loose thinking on it, and that is that we have to have our own sort of uh cyber attackers, right with our own hackers, US based hackers and attackers of source in order to counter this. Wouldn't that be the way that the US would normally answer something like this? If they have a special you know program to do xyz, then that means we need one, and we need one that counters theirs or or am I thinking.
To the problem from a technology standpoint, we could do that, but let's look at the advantage is that they have. If we come up with a a political action package that involves disinformation, misinformation, social networking, you know, social messaging, is that going to work against Russia? Absolutely not. Putin has such total control over Russian media, there is virtually
nothing that we can do. I mean, at this point in time, they've had over sixty thousand casualties and it's not even touched them because the ability to keep that out of the media. So that's a political warfare against Putin's regime at this point in time. It's just not in the cards. But it is in the cards against us. Unfortunately, it's unilateral. Okay, let's talk about China. Yeah, absolutely, we can come up with counters for drones. We can, but
what about this manufacturing capability? How much American stuff is used in China? The Chinese Over the last three or four years, Chinese government has created an absolute phobia against foreigners in China. I say this, but I mean, you're at the point now where there was a story a few months ago where and a sports team they've decided to play in Japan and not China, and it was like a huge national they're disrespecting us, They're Okay, there really is a great deal of anti it's not anti
all foreigners, but anti Western feeling in China. So the question is how much are our sales of equipment in China. Can we do anything on the order that they could do with you know, chip embeds and software embeds and that sort of stuff in terms of selling to US and selling through third parties to us. Is that even on the table that we could balance that out. I'm not sure that it is.
I don't know. I don't know, And I have a chatter mentioning the Iranian thing against Trump, but I don't know how it is. That's a whole mixed up thing. I'm seeing where they went and they got documents from his campaign and we're trying to hand him over to the Biden campaign. Were there other Iranian moves against Trump that I missed?
I'm the only one I'm aware of is the uh document package. And again that's that's very much just a repeat of It's it's kind of like Hillary's emails or something like that. You know, that's I think that's and that's Biden, right. This is months old at this point in time.
It's had to be because they were.
I've seen some talk of maybe social messaging coming out of Iran against Trump, but you know, nothing, nothing to compete with the other stuff that's going on. So now I can't say that I've seen anything of the same magnitude at all coming from Iran.
M All right, Hey, I don't know, but how do we how do we kind of tie a bow around this though and bring it all to a conclusion about what does this mean? You know, all of this action? And oh, by the way, every time I see a bunch of stuff like this, Larry, I always think to myself, Yeah, that's the part of it that we know about. Now what else is going on that we're not being told yet or we're never going to be told even as it keeps happening, right, I mean, that's the other true.
Rather running screaming to the exits, which you know would seem to be the call for I think there are a couple of things we can do. One I think we can trust And you just brought it up that we are developing the resources to respond to the kind of threat that we see coming from China. And I think that's very clear because like the announcement we saw today, Justice is very well aware of it, the military is
very well They're no longer taking us by surprise. So there is an active defense against the Chinese on all fronts. There is an active defense. There is not an active defense against Russia's political warfare because we until we stop doing it to ourselves. I mean, they're just making us do it to ourselves. They're siloing us, they're making us not talk to each other, they're making us not listen to each other, and we're the only ones that can
fix that. Until we become less politicized, there's no solution because they're just taking advantage of us. So the answer there is really obvious, and that's quite frankly not to be preachy, but we got to stop hating each other and we've got to start looking for compromised solutions and reaching across the aisle and not be POI. It's just it's like it's fertile ground for them and nothing's going to make it better.
Well, as long as you pretty much draw a line where it's like, look, everything that is not on my side of the line is absolute evil and needs to be confronted, you know, this is where you get extremist action, which is weird because you know, we're now being faced
with who's to blame for different things that occur. Right, That's the other thing that happens after another event happens where look, we have all this discord being sewed every which way, and then somebody says, well, it's really their fault that they've been attacking us. No, it's actually their fault that they've been attacking us. And meanwhile, both sides will blame each other over the same thing, and it's you know, it's irrelevant.
The blame game is a political warfare tool, right, I mean, live with it. People, If you do that, you just it's like, keep asking yourself, is someone taking advantage of me?
And there it is? Anyway, Larry, try not to take advantage of you. You've been with me about an hour here going through this amazing you know, sorry, but crap show of what's happening. You know, we are dealing with a new age of technological advances that allow things to occur in the subtlest of ways, and you have this It's back to the spheres of influence once again. Right, It's really about that, Who is manipulating that? For what purpose?
And why are they utilizing all of these modern tools now? Because they're the best tools to utilize. You get the biggest bang for your buck, so to speak. In going through these different avenues creating these ripple effects, sure, grab yourself a couple of alt media people along the way to make sure that your message gets pushed. But it's not really about them. It's about all of their listeners that are gonna then take that and become even more
engaged in the strife between each other. They're going to argue more with each other, They're gonna argue more with the with the prescribed enemy, one way or another. And so long as we're subdividing amongst ourselves and turning our anger and turning our finger pointing at people that are here, well we can't possibly focus on them and whatever the hell they're doing I mean, or am I wrong?
No, And it's asymmetrical. But as again we talked in as we talked last week, this is another form of deniable warfare, which we have always done very poorly in the Russians in particular, and Chinese have always done very well. They just do it, they don't deny it, and they just keep doing it and it works. So yeah, absolutely, you just have to be aware that it's going on. I think if people were just aware that was going on, we have become so introspective and just like looking in
our side, ourselves like, it's just America. Let's just look at ourselves and find bad guys.
Here well in the large Yeah, yeah.
The bad guys are all here. Certainly. Oh, should somebody be taking advantage of us? Well, the bad guys are all here.
Well. I think the most profound thing to recognize is that, at all times, you know what, most of these arguments are not ones that we created, but we've been we've been influenced to engage in. And I think one of the things that would bother the American people if they would accept it, if they would truly accept it, is
it would truly bother them. It would disturb them, and it might even change their direction if they thought that all of these things were being manufactured and fabricated by people who do not have our best interests at heart. And I don't mean your political adversaries here. I mean people that want to create chaos for the sake of making sure that we are incoherent and at each other's throats and definitely mistrusting of one another. Any of our
political situations be damned. If we are all turned against one another, we never have a chance to honestly look at them, because all of our focus against one another, and that if that's being manufactured by people not here, it's not organic. If it's an artificial thing that has been, you know, thrust upon us, and people really recognize that,
I think they might object. I think they might try to reevaluate if they thought to themselves, this is an organic This is all being manufactured by somebody else who wants to pull our strings from a distance.
Chuck, Chuck, I think you need to link in that Twilight Zone episode, Remember the one I'm talking about where it's this local neighborhood where suddenly the you know, the lights go out, there's no more radio broadcast yea, and by the end, everybody is at each other's throats.
Right.
I think that's a perfect illustration of what you were just talking about.
Yeah, the one where all of a sudden, the one guy has electricity, and then everybody goes and tax his house because suddenly he has power on exactly then people standing way back, they're supposed to be aliens, but it doesn't matter, standing way back goes. Look, it's that easy. We can turn them against each other just like this. We don't have to do a single thing. Yeah, you know, it reminds me off.
I'll be forced to watch that once a pay and think about it.
Really, it reminds me of the days when somebody was banging their shoe on the on the uh you know, on the uh uh on the lecturn at the un and saying we'll bury you without without taking a shot. Yep, it can be done, and perhaps it is being done anyway. Larry. Yeah, there you go. Positive note to end things on and uh, don't you feel good? I don't necessarily, but you can feel better and educate yourself with Larry Hancock's work larrydash
Handcock dot com. Again, I recommend all of his books, and especially tonight we discussed a bit of creating chaos for sure, not necessarily about what's in that book, but then again, maybe some of what's in that book. So all I can tell you is stay tuned and Larry, thanks a lot for doing this with me.
You bet have a nice evening, Chuck you too.
And as for you guys, I am merely O'Kelly. All of you are indeed the effect. Go to Larry dash Hancock dot com and follow his work, get his books. They will educate you and also feel free to drop in something at o'helly dot com. I could use your help at any time, but especially now. Thanks a lot for listening again, I'm ocelly, You're the effect. Good night.
In Denial Secret Wars with Air Strikes and Tanks by Larry Hancock. Secret wars became a staple of US covert operations and are still happening today. Larryhancock's book In Denial rips the cover off many of them, using new files. It exposes things about the Bay of Pigs that no one has ever written about before. It shows why it really failed and why the United States did.
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