The Ochelli Effect 8-19-2023 Roundtable

The o'chilly Effect is sponsored by Wall Street Window dot com and listeners like you Yeah, Yeah y. August eighteen, twenty twenty three. Allegedly, according to that thing we call a calendar, and uh, this is the o'ceelly effect. It's a friar's day night. So therefore it is open Mike time at o'ceelli dot com. Now, I tried to add a little bit of extra push to the social media to let people know that we were gonna go live with the call in show. So if you are hearing us live,

do know you can participate. My co host p Pete and myself for here, and we're gonna run this now. It is usually open form. Lets you say anything you want to say, that's for sure, and we're gonna do that. However, I had a little chat with me Pete about how we're gonna be mindful about moving things along a little quicker because people are tuning out and not wanting to hear the pod cast and also not wanting to hear

the live show when we linger too long on certain topics. And it's not just because of the certain topics, it's just that they expect the call in show should move along, quicker. Tell you an instant automatic way to do that is if more of you decide to get your voices on here, diversified voices. I can pop people on and off. See, just because I put you back on hold doesn't mean I can't bring you back. So get yourself together, Come on and say the things you want to say, how

you want to be funny. Let's do that. Let's get a break from the drudgery. Let's get a break from the Look at the latest pile of indictments, endorsements, criminal activity by various government agents and their family, politicians, etc. Let's let's go to that shore. Let's go to the fact that even though Russia is engaged in a military operation, a special one they say, with Ukraine, I just got a news story the other day that they launched a mission to the moon. Let's get into the low of these

are the stories. Let's take a look at you know, everybody likes to talk about Chicago and gang activity. Holy crap, look at Haiti. Anyway we could go there, or we could go anywhere that's relevant. Let's educate each other, Let's learn from one another. Let's do that. You can join us calling in at three one nine, five two seven five zero one six. Hell, if you got a good story to tell, just something

happened to you of interest and you'd like the world to know. I don't have the whole world listening, but I do have a world of people that might be interested in that story. Who knows what we could learn from that three one nine five two seven five zero one six. Or you can reach out to me Charles dot Ocelli on Skype. That is my Skype id, and I can call you into the show. Let's get that direction very very

straight. I can call you from my Skype if you send me a text message saying, hey, Chuck, I'd like to be added into the show live. But if you're hearing the podcast and all that good stuff without a time machine, you can't call in unless it's about twenty after eight pm Eastern Time hearing what we used to call America on Friday, the eighteenth day of August. So if you're hearing it at another time and place or another time and day, yeah, you can't call in. But if you are hearing

us live, do it. Do it because it's good for you or whatever the hell? What did Arnold used to say? Was that a Nike slogan. I don't want to use slogans. Let's just do this, man, Let's do something different, and let's do something more productive and positive than the rain of crap I get in my emails and social medias and all that good stuff. Although I joined a couple of groups on the Twitter x recently, anybody doing that, that's weird, almost like they're trying to grab a little

something off of the meta universe or Facebook lately social media. Are you withdrawn from it? Do you care? Oh? We also still have plenty of that swag stuff available. Getting ready, gett namped up to try and get ourselves to Dallas and arrived there in one piece, which I'm entrusting my co host here tonight to do because he's going to be doing most of the driving, if not all of it, going from the East Coast to Dallas when

we go there for the conference in November. So we could talk about that, we could talk about the special that I'm going to do on Monday, where we're going to seriously dissect one of the newest, latest, greatest raves out there in documentary land that claims to solve the JFK assassination once again, and of course you know I've got issues with it. So we're going to do a watch along with the TNP guys, and I'm going to tell you

in real time what's wrong with the provable objective information. Not my opinion, not that I don't like their theories, not that a lot of theories are exciting, interesting and fascinating, but at least know your MATI A, no the evidence before you start making declarations about set evidence and etc. Anyway,

all that's coming up next week. Plus I'm no longer going to do live Mondays as a regular practice on the o'celli effect, and that's going to be a permanent change, and there may be other permanent changes coming to the network, my show, my performances, et ce. As people have noticed, we've gone to mostly one hour shows for the most part, maybe a little more, a little less. Oh next Thursday, though, I will have

Mike Swanson and Larry Hancock both on the same show. So I am doing a two hour show on next Thursday, and this call in show will remain as a two hour show. And if I can't get another live call in show to join us on a Friday, we may extend it or expand it somehow, but only if you support it and participate in it. So unless you're calling in, making donations, or making this show run a little bit,

why go over the two hours. Two hours is plenty, but I'll go over two hours if you guys encourage it, endorse it, and support it anyways. Again, reminders, three one nine five two seven five zero one six. That is the number to call to join us. Three one nine five two seven five zero one six, or you can send me a message to Charles dot Ocelli on Skype ask me to call you into the show

and I'll do that and join you via Skype. Especially if you're an international listener, you may want to join that way because you can do that for free. Just like you know, most people can call anywhere in the country for free if they're in the US, and that three one nine five two seven five zero one six number is not going to cost him anything to call. But if you're in you know, some of the country, it might,

so you can use Skype that away. And I do have international numbers and stuff, So if you plan on calling in sometime and you need that, let me know. Anyway you can communicate with me. Besides calling me a maggot and the thing the name for gay people that rhymes with that, and all those other good slurs. You could contact me for actual, workable information regarding the show. Anyways, welcome to it. Here we are, and with that, I want to shut up. And here from my co

host b Pete, how are you doing? Man? Doing pretty good. It's been a hectic week, very hectic week. Literally just walked in the door and started catching up on some things that happened during the week. But the weather has been hot. It's been nastily hot. AC conked out on Tuesday front on one hundred dollars later. Everything's working fine. Now you can hanging beef in the living room. I've got a cold enough in here. Oh the AC in your house went Did you have central air or I got

central air? And it went out. It was a believe it or not. It was a loose wire on the contactor module and it burned. And when it burned, it warped the lug inserts, so you couldn't tighten the wire down. So not having the insert to stick in there had to replace the whole piece at about two hundred and fifty bucks. So what's like, what's likely to bean manufactured for like five bucks or ten bucks, probably cost you three hundred bucks to replace because huh, well, no, this one

was a little more expensive. It's got an electromagnet in it when your when your signal comes from your thermostat to cut on. Okay, it has an electromagnet that slams back the contract contacts and elets to twenty run through the system, so it takes a jolt every time the thing kicks on. So maybe a twenty dollars part they cost you a three hundred dollars to replace, okay, depending on the depending on the grade of bronze that they used in the

in the contacts. But no other than that. And it was the hottest day of the year. I mean literally the hottest day of the year. It was like one hundred and one hundred and seven I think. And uh, but it was a comfortable eighty five in the house. So well, we got fixed in this running and everything is chilly. I got icicles hanging off of stuff. I didn't know you didn't have icicles hanging from us? How cold? I got it just to catch up. But other than that,

we're doing good. I was scanning topics and two things that if you want to throw in for later to discuss. One the devastating fires in Maui get really taken a toll at number two. Michael Burry, who his big claim to fame was being one of the subjects of the book in the movie The Big Short, He's the one that went out on his own with his own firm and decided to short the housing market, ended up making a cool

eight hundred million combined. Well, he just bet oh the equivalent of one point six billion on the stock market crash, right, and so it's been big talk here to past couple of days right now. That was brought up on the New Prisoners broadcast earlier today, which for some ungodly reason they got to start at ten a. Uh so, you know, I got on there, and that was brought up by Chris Graves who was on there. Didn't do his show today because his guest was supposed to show up and didn't.

That's a trend lately as well, but not not not for him mainly, but for me mostly. But anyway, it seems to be contagious. Point is, though he brought that up and he's keeps saying, look,

keep a watch on and keep a watch on it. But you know, I gotta say that when I see these guys shorting markets and stuff, it's never the one that's obvious in the news that usually is the big deal, right, It's usually the one you catch later and you go, wow, how did this person know that, you know, the tech sector was going to crash? Yeah, this one got caught only because it was Michael Burry. He's been he's been big in the news for the past couple of years

as well. Let's see what Michael Burry thinks about the situation. You know, people have are predicting a stock market crash now for the past what eight nine years, pretty heavily. Well, it's been a predictable. Look,

they've been saying that since the nineties. Honestly, I mean I've been getting the you know, back in the days when I was listening to Bill Cooper on shortwave radio, people were talking about the possibility of the collapse of the dollar, the stock market crashing, and the stock market has crashed various times. The nature of the crashes is different from what we saw, you know, great Depression era, for sure, because of the advent of the computers

coming in and that has changed the speed of things, etcetera. So I mean, you have a different reality emerged here and merged, emerged and merged. Kind of funny that way. And you know the weird thing also chat GPT and the changes of a maybe you can just use algorithms to do stuff, etcetera, etcetera. I mean, look, it's a weird world. It's a brave new world sometimes, and yeah, it's something to keep an

eye on. Plus, you know that Maui fire thing. The other topic you brought up, I gotta say immediately and predictably, I knew I was going to hear it. Well, Direct and Energy Weapons conspiracy that the other day. I thought, oh my god, are they still on the direct? You know who was who's the check back during nine to eleven they got into it would fix her? And well that was Judy wood Wood. Yeah,

she was the one with the lasers. And and look, I don't object to the idea that something like that could happen, but there are some weird things going on, and there's some horrible things going on there. I mean, the vultures are definitely out to play at the picnic, because what are they doing. They've shown up to uh, you know, already call people before they even get to pull their family members bodies out of the ashes, to say, hey, hey, we'll buy your property even though it's

burnt up. The opportunists are running amok. And there was even a book allegedly published weirdly enough, like the day before the disaster, recounting the disaster, which you know, I don't know what to make of that. I'm not sure if that's you know, some sort of me it's cue. I mean, I've definitely seen Amazon list things in weird ways and create dates for things, like where they say something has been released and it's a date that

we have not actually come to yet. I've seen things like that happened before. But this was kind of strange that some people had screenshots alleging that a book had been released about the fire before the fire, you know, and not like this could happen but a matter of we're going to tell you what happened already and somebody hit the published button a day early or something. I

mean, that's weird. And the idea of the directed energy weapons, of course, we faced that during the California fires, the Paradise fire, the other one, what was the camp fire? I forget all the names because there's so many California's on fire all the time. But anyway, yes, that is a volid topic. Well yeah, and on that topic of this book, it seems that some people are claiming it's an AI written book and it was published like the day after let's see, see Amazon's listening to the

public all couldn't find the page. Suddenly it's off Amazon's page. Yeah, who could humanly write a book? You know? I mean, could you conceivably write a book as something is happening? Sure, but what kind of information are you going to have in there? Is it likely that an AI program was dispatched to do this? I would say yes, whether it was

published ahead of time or not to get a book out that quickly. I mean you and I know, I've known plenty of people who have written books, right, I mean, and it takes him a while, even smart ones the right books. Okay, yeah, but I guess if you feed the right information into one of these you know, chat CHPT programs, you could probably spit something out. I don't know, but weird stuff happened with Mike Swanson like that. Though I don't know if you heard the live show

on Thursday. I haven't published it yet from last night, but interesting recounting people that were arguing with him about certain things, and they went and got information off of one of these AI programs to counter him and tell him that certain things were against the law. And they cited all these codes and uh and you know, legal precedents and whatnot, but a whole bunch of ordinances and such were listed and links were given to them, you know, to

tell him, hey, look, demon's demonstrably you can't do this. Because Mike was writing about somebody trying to crowdsource a run for public office, which apparently is sketchy and kind of has a way that it would be illegal, but it's not definitively illegal. I guess, uh, it might be murky, but people were writing to him saying, no, you're an idiot, it's illegal. Here's why. And they sent him these links and he goes to follow the link and it has nothing to do with you know, campaign

finance. Like maybe there's maybe the the great AI made mistakes is that one problem one with this thing that came up is when Amazon listed their description. It described it as talking about the events of the fire from August eighth to eleventh, but it was it was put up on the tenth on Amazon.

So they're saying that's where the confusion came up is because of the description, not what was actually in the book, but from what I'm looking at here, they've gone through and stripped it down and it's pretty much an AI book or somebody just that said there's clues in the way that it's written that it's AI and so apparently somebody just you know, punched in what they wanted, claimed it was generated by chat GPT, and you know, there's really nothing

in there except you know, basically news events of what happened. So who knows but the fire itself. I was looking at looking at what they had to do, the forensics involved in these recovery teams to go in and try to find remains, and so far they said that the most of the remains that they found are usually where there was a bed, so when they go into these places, they automatically start checking beds, and a lot of people were still in bed when this thing swept through. And that was the big

argument over using the sirens to alert people. Yeah, and the argument to counter argument so far, I guess from the guy who now I guess resigned from his position due to health issues. He says, but I'm sure the stress of this circumstance made him go I'm out. He was saying, Look, it's a siren meant for something else. People might have gone with the going to higher ground principle here and that would have been a bad thing to

do in this circumstances. Which, yeah, the silence system is located along the beach and it was set up for tsunamis and an alert for those And he said, everybody you know has been trained over the years. When the sirens go off, you go to high ground. He says. The problem is, had we let that happen, people would have Mackley wanted to run towards the fire and that's what they didn't deploy it. You know, other people are saying that's crazy. At least it would have woken people up and

they could have found out what was going on they needed to evacuate. Well, maybe they're that one to two s day. Yeah, and maybe there needs to be a different signal that's just an alert alert signal, and maybe you're supposed to find some other way to find out what your alert is about, which I thought they had with the Emergency Broadcast System, which they renamed a couple of years ago. Anyway, somebody asked in the chat room about

the JFK movie that I brought up, and what's garbage about it? Yeah, you're gonna find out. And I think it's j Wide Nurse, the guy, one of the guys involved there with that movie. But look, it's not a personal thing with this guy. It's just the information is bad. And I started watching it just like I get aggravated with these things, and I said, oh my god, I can't believe we're gonna go through this. And maybe I'll give you a couple of highlights and hints about what's

wrong with it before I'm done tonight. But it's it's purely an exercise in you know what, you Guys often will forgive the inaccuracies in somebody's presentations when they come to a conclusion you'll like. And that's a dangerous problem lately, is that if they come to the conclusion or they're on the side you like, it's okay. If they violate the law, it's okay. If they violate the standards of I don't know, giving you reliable evidence, It's okay.

If they tell you that somebody who was not the CIA director is the CIA director at the time in making their point, it's okay. If they misrepresent how things were presented and what was available to the public, it's okay because their conclusion goes along with something that you came into it with already. If people do that, then yeah, sure, you can forgive a lot of stuff. I can forgive John Hankey for a lot of his mistakes.

I can forgive Gerald Posner for his mistakes because he made a couple of good points. Did I just say that that left he's anyway, Look, I could forgive Vince Bugliosi forgetting a whole bunch of crap wrong. If I want to forgive people presenting inaccurate evidence, I can forgive. I can't forgive Judy Baker. I was going to try that, but no, I can't forgive

that. Ye get away with that. I'm sorry I would have. I would have called bullshit on that, right, But I mean, but I could forgive earlier stages of Jim Fetzer's career, not you know, not the past ten years or so, but earlier stages where you know, maybe he was just mistaken about certain things when he presented accurate information at the beginning of his talks. Now it was mixed in with some bs and you could say

that was a mistake or whatever. But here's the problem again, if you're going to view things through a lens that assumes a conclusion that you want to get to, it's very fascinating how you can forgive a whole lot of misinformation along the way, even if that's somebody constructing their case based on that misinformation.

So on Monday, we're gonna give a clinic on that with a watch along of this brand new documentary that is apparently getting a lot of attention and a lot of legitimacy because a whole bunch of balt media people because it was on one of the very prominent podcasts that has tons and tons of followers out there, and who knows, maybe Rogan will bring this guy on, maybe somebody else will bring maybe it'll get even more legitimacy very very soon as we

get up to the sixtieth anniversary, and it's just loaded with inaccuracies and claims to have solved the case, So yeah, we're going to take give that some special attention. But look, I don't want to get too deep into the JFK discussion or anything else. We have one caller waiting on the line, and hopefully we'll have some more. Three one nine, five, two seven, five zero one six is the number tw call if you want to join us, so be pete. Any other topics that you want to toss

out there generally? Or should we begin the process of mantic colors when here apparently you know, the bud Light boycott and the results of that. We've been discussing it off and on for the past couple of weeks of how bad it's affected the sales of bud Light. But there's a headline here says Kid

Rock enjoys a bud Light. Wait what somebody snap pictures of Kid Rock with a bud Light tan while he's drinking the beer after he had, you know, famously shot up a couple of cases of bud Light with his AR fifteen.

So apparently Kid Rock can be forgiving and has now embraced the Dylan mulvaney beer well, or is it just that he doesn't really care what he's drinking, so long as he gets the result and the spectacle of giving the finger to bud Light and their whole company and everything else because they made a couple of custom beer cans for a transgender Uh, you know, really truly atrocious individual online. Uh yeah, well maybe he just forgot that he's supposed to

be outraged. Is that possible? Be Pete, what do you think? I don't know, Kid Rock who cheers? Well, see that's the other thing. See, I saw he was trending and I added that to one of my posts on Twitter, just that he was trending along with Tucker Carlson and something else I forget. Uh And I was just like whatever, And

I barely looked at it. And of course that's what this is. But I mean, end of the day, if you're looking to Kid Rock for you know, guidance, advice, a role model of some kind in your life, I'm sorry. I'm really really sorry. Hey, you know, you gotta trust a guy with a midget in his entourage. Come on, now, look, I give you that point, but kids the trend, I mean, you know, come on, how seriously am I supposed to take kid right? It was like when people were so so bent out of

shape about Ted Nugent. I'm going but Ted Nugent is Ted Nugent. Ye has always been the way he is people. I guess it's because he got I don't know, he wanted to inject himself into politics where they said okay, that's enough. You know, well if not, he was worse at a certain point really with his behaviors. I mean, you want to talk about you know, some non PC some definitely cringe worthy stuff, even pre Me Too movement. I mean, Ted Nugent was like a poster boy for

what they used to call misogyny. I mean, you know, I had to admit though he did one of the best concerts I've ever been to. Oh yeah, look I saw him. You know, I saw a weird situation where he opened for Kiss. I know that sounds strange, but it happened. He opened for Kiss on one of those non makeup tours in the I want to say, I think it might have been the early nineties, but it might have been the late eighties. It was Kiss whenever they put

out the Asylum album. Might have to look it up. Yeah, well, if you think about it, though, you know, even a lot of people. I don't know a lot of people know Ted Nugent from his days of Chat Scratch Fever, But if you go all the way back to the Amboy Dukes, you know Ted news has been around for a while, pretty long while. Well so it Kiss. You know, let's see studio album released on Oh geez wow. I didn't realize it was that early.

Apparently Kiss released that album in eighty five, so they must have done the tour in like eighty six because it was released in September of eighty five. So by the time they got to Jersey probably eighty six and Ted Nugent opened for the non makeup Kiss, And I remember thinking to myself, this is really interesting because only a few years earlier, it might have almost been the other way around. Uh. Ted Nugent might have been a bigger act than

Kiss on a lot of levels. Right. I don't know when did Cats Scrash Fever come out, or they might have been co ed liners. I don't know. Let's take a look Cat Scratch Fevers. Nugent's first album, Nugent, came out in seventy five. This is for This was his first album after leaving the Amboy Dukes. Okay, so Ted Nugent and that's wasn't that a live album? Leave so and that's why you know he left the Dukes because they weren't hardcore enough for him. You know he was he was

a workaholic. But yeah, his first album was seventy five. Kiss came out in Oh crap, when was your first album? Seventy two? But Kiss was early seventies. I think Nugent was, you know, same time. I'm just saying it could have very easily been the same same time period where they should have co headlined. Right. Uh, let's see a cat Scratch Fever Wang Dang Sweet Boom Dang was released May thirteen, nineteen seventy seven. Homebound. Okay, blah blah blah, All right, let's see.

Yeah, it seems as though seventy seven as the kind of peaked before Kiss got to You said that album was out eighty five and the tour probably eighty six. Yeah, was on his way down. I mean that was after his crest, after Cat Scratch Fever. Oh no, No, Nugent had

not had a major massive hit in a while. I mean he had done what Little mis Dangerous or something, and maybe been on some movie soundtracks at that point, right, I mean, that's where he was at and and still going to play the hits, you know, to tour finding Andy and

probably could have been a headliner all by himself. But I just was like looking at it, feeling strange about watching Ted Nugent open for the unmake up kiss, which was never as popular as you know, kiss with makeup, right, which is why they went back to it in ninety nine or whatever or ninety six, I forget what year they did that. They went and they did a couple of shows in Vegas to reunite and all that. But anyways, let's not delve too long into that. We could talk music,

we could talk whatever topics you want. And now we've got two callers, so let's let's get started on them. And again let's try and be quick about things. Move along topics and topic unless you got any more you want to throw in BPD or you want to save up a couple for our next lull in the discussion. Well, I'm scanning now as we go, so yeah, go ahead and bring all the callers fair enough so in the order that they called in, and of course we have with us the infamous Jimmy

James so or is he? Is he famous? Is he infamous? I have not heard from your fan club in a while, Jimmy, but I'm sure now that I mentioned them, they'll they'll contact me. How you doing, man, I'm doing all right. You guys got some things wrong. They're on the nuge. We got things forgot things wrong. Okay, you forgot strangle Holds. You forgot his mega hit from the nineteen nineties, Fred Bear, and you forgot that he was in Damn Yankees in nineteen eighty five

and had a huge shit. Okay, Look, it's not anything wrong there. It's just a matter of Truthfully, though his career was not, you know, headlining a stadium by himself in eighty six. It just wasn't even with the Damn Yankees thing. Well, that didn't come out till the nineties. Damn Yankees came out in nineteen ninety. Okay, I didn't know that Stranglehold and all that was on his d that was on his first album,

Technisian. That was a seventy five Okay, so seventy five per Stranglehold, seventy seven cat Scratch Fever, So you know you're talking nine years after he's opening for Kiss. So you know, anyway, what was Ted Nugent doing in nineteen eighty five? Let's see, well, Penetrator came out in eighty four, and Little mis Dangerous came out in eighty six. Yeah, I knew a Little Mis Dangerous was around here, so okay, yes, I wouldn't say we got anything wrong per se, but maybe we didn't count all

of his hits. Okay, fair enough, And of course Stranglehold was a huge thing and continues to be a staple on classic rock now right. Ted Nugent concert map nineteen eighty six, Let's see if he was in North America? Where when was he in Jersey? Let's see if I can find it real quick here, because I know I saw him in either New York or New Jersey, So sorry, go ahead. He had a couple of big hits off that first album. He had Stranglehold, He had Snake King,

Cowboys, Motor City, Madhouse, just when the Doctor Ordered. Yeah, that was a that was That was an excellent album for a first album. But see, I remember him more back during the Amboy Dukes when he you know, Great White Buffalo and when those came out. So I guess. I guess that seems to me that he'd been around forever, because I remember him back into Amboy Dukes before he ever broke out on his own. You know, more of his old stuff that is less than his ladder stuff at

the end of his career. Fair enough. Right now, I'm going through his concert calendar in eighty six, which was pretty interesting and many many concerts. Deep Uh says he played one hundred and six shows that year, which, Okay, Wildwood, New Jr. Note wasn't the Wildwood New Jersey one for sure. Let's see where his next appearance was in the Tri state area. Broom County veterans were more. No, that's not it. Let's see War Memorial Rochester. Nope, I did not go to Rochester for that.

I'm looking over this, though, I guarantee I'm gonna find this show was in New York or New Jersey in eighty six, so I'll find it. But he's bouncing around a bit and going through New York a few times, going to Syracuse and everywhere else. Might have been Madison Square Garden or Brendan Byrne. Oh, that's likely what it was. Okay, Brendan Burn Arena, East Rutherford, New Jersey, on April twelfth, nineteen eighty six, which I believe he should have been opening for Kiss. Let's see, here's

the entire set list. I remember that time period he was doing Laderman a lot. Maybe it was in association with that tour, might have been. It says he was promoting Little Mis Dangerous at this time, and he opened with Yankney Crank Me, just with the Doctor Ordered Free for All, Hey, Baby, Painkiller, Angry young Man, the Great White Buffalo, Crazy Ladies, a Little Mis Dangerous, Motor City Madhouse, and then did an encore and this is what I remember seeing, uh, Stranglehold, Cat Scratch,

Fever, and Wang Dang Sweet Poon Tang just as his encore. That's his three songs. So there you go. I don't see how you could. I don't see how you could call him a massage and as every one of them are what I call a love story. Fair enough, I'm just telling you what people said about him and how he was perceived. I'm not saying what I called him as as an aside. Strangleholds Guitar solo has been

ranked as the thirty first greatest guitar solo by Guitar World. Okay, I've got amazing I'd have to put it, I'd have to put I put it on the top ten. When you no, I'm definitely not in the top ten. I mean, but I would put it in the top twenty five. Minor correction, bye the bye. I actually saw him play with Kiss on April eleven, not twelve. Uh so he played solo on April twelve, and he played with Kiss on April eleventh. There you go, And

I want to verification on that song can you take me high enough? Because that sounds weird to me. I thought that came out in the mid eighties, nineteen ninety see all right, Oh damn Yankees, Damn Thanks debut nineteen eighty nine. Mm hmm, I formed, uh thirties New York nineteen eighty nine. She had, I would guess a few years before that. So I'm glad I'm not on Jeopardy and I'm glad that wasn't the question. There you go, because I have nineteen eighty five burned in my head for that

song. And yeah, that song when it came out, that one shot, Let's see they peaked at thirteen the album did now the single Let's See High Enough peaked at number three, number two. I'm sorry fully us mean, and now taking a look at Kissing set list from that night, I remember why I was a bit dissatisfied with the concert, so it makes perfect

sense. I didn't even enjoy it until the latter end of it. And yeah, they were doing their unmake up crap most like, you know, ending with rock and roll all night and then coming back for a trying to surprise us, and they did a cover of Lifted Rips aka led Zeppelin song a Whole Lot of Love, So that was part of the reason why I was kind of like, and they're they're closing for their encore was lick it

Up. So you know, I remember the first time kiss was on Don Cursor's Rock Concerts, and I thought, you know, these guys are gonna they're gonna go fast, they're gonna reach high, and then they're gonna burn out. I never thought they would last as long as they did. Yeah, I mean, they must hold the world record for the most merchandise created for a band in history. Yeah, they've got two hands down. I

mean, that's gotta be searchable somewhere. I mean, I can't think of a band that ever had more products with their their logo emblazon on them than Kiss. I can't. I mean more products created. I mean from dolls to you know, two movies to everything. I mean, it's just you know, oh yeah, yeah, yeah. Well Black Sabbath had a cartoon, you know, and uh, there were others that had cartoons, cool enough, you know, Jackson five. I used to watch the Jackson five

cartoon when I was little. You know, lots of bands had cartoons, uh, but no, but Kiss was just crazy. It was like, you know, lunchboxes, thermiss everything. You know. I'm sure there were shoes at a certain point. I know there was you know, every kind of regular run of the mill stuff. But on top of it, I mean I'm pretty sure there was kissed toothbrushes. I mean I had known a couple of Kiss fans over the years, and they had some of them had

monstrous collections of just unbelievable stuff that you know. It was just like, I mean, I find it wilder today. You know, in China they're making rugs of every old rock band and things like that now. But Kiss was way ahead of it. I mean, toy cars, everything, Kiss had anyways, but it was interesting that time period, and it was a

drink of light. May I. I'm just gonna see you know, you don't make pictures there is a kid of Kid Rock drink a beer the prior old well, even if it wasn't you know, do you think kid Rock is the great connoisseur of beer? Who's really paying that much attention every time somebody hands him a beer? Can? I mean, come on and again if you're taking him seriously? But what do you want me to tell you? Is he your role model? Is he your hero? I mean,

is is he anybody here? Know? He's got his own opinions. I don't see nothing wrong with them expressing them. I don't care, Yeah exactly, let him do what he wants. I'm just saying, like, what's the big deal either way? Though? You know, like, is it that serious? Is he that influential? The thing you don't want to get into it the whole thing of who bud Light was targeting with that crap, But I ain't gonna get into just out of curiosity. Who would you think

is probably one of the tops. I don't know if this is current, but who would you think would be a top of the merchandise sales clock genre here in the United States, just out of curiosity, t Taylor Swift. No, She's not even on the list, Believe it or not. I'm thinking, you know what, you gotta go Beatles, Elvis, Kiss the Monkeys, who Lady Gaga has fifties? Uh, let's see fifteen point eight

million in merchandise sales. Are On Grande has ten million, eminem Is at seven point six mill, Justin Biebers at five point six, Sean Menendez four point eight, Nicki Minaj four point one, Beyonce three point five. Lady Gaga is kicking beyances. But yeah, but okay, but is it fair to compare merchandise sales against you know, like a Lady Gaga versus a Kiss who was probably selling five dollars kiss dolls in the seventies, right, you

know what I'm saying? Like you you couldn't possibly get Like I saw a what is that guy post Malone, the guy with the tattoos on his face? Yeah, they made a fun co pop out of a guy, right, and that thing sells for fifty bucks. I think you know, one of the biggest genres for merchandise sales is actually the Korean pop music genre. They there's sales top individual sale where one person will make multiple purchases more than any other genre. They are heavily in the merch. Yeah, it makes

sense again, you know where you have massive, massive audiences. You know, again, at one time the Monkeys were a phenomena too, don't forget right, Oh, of course, yeah, just saying I mean and look at a certain point, I bet you you could have slapped Michael Jackson's likeness or name onto anything and it would have sold quite well. Well, you know, if you think about it back when the Monkeys are you or maybe a thermis or something. You look at what is offered today, from teach

your church to clothing to dolls to UH Korea. The big thing is the band's light stick and the specific design, and there's people that just collect light sticks. You know, it's amazing what is available out there the way of

merch today, from light sticks to guitar picks. What were you saying, Jimmy James or something you want to add in Oh, I was just going to confess that in Daily As I bought a Michael Checks and Thriller wallet, a thriller wallet, Okay, I would not have expected that purchase from you. I gotta be honest. I have a couple of Ochelly effect wallets, by the way, a couple of them that I had made that are part of the random swag packages. But but anyways, they only one of them

went out so far anyhow, so that's available. We do have another caller waiting on the line, and we'd love to get more. Plus, I'm gonna go to a break very very soon because I feel a lull coming on in the conversation and I feel like we should probably rejuvenate ourselves during a break. What do you think, be Pete, should we take a break or

take the next caller first, or maybe do both in rapid succession. What do you say you can do both of And before you do that, just one little quick piece of trivia, somebody did a study and found out that in the hard rock genre, fifty four percent of the people surveyed owned an AC DC T shirt. That's interesting, followed by Metallica at fifty three point five percent. That was going to be my guests for the next one on the list there, Gee, do you have a third place on that Aerosmith?

Aerosmith point four. You know, Aerosmith always surprises me. Aero Smith is a hard rocks heavy metal but this is under the Great Alternative Slash under Classic Rock ac DC. It wins with fifty four point four, followed by Aerosmith at thirty nine, and then Pink Floyd thirteen point one, which is two above the Rolling Stones. I'm glad to see that. It's weird to

me because the success of Aerosmith has always confounded me. Uh. I never thought that they were as great as a lot of other people think they are. I always thought they were good. It's but I like Aerosmith. I don't their older stuff. But you can't realize when they when they released new things, they weren't in competition with many people. They played the calendar to their advantage when they released it two albums. Yeah, but see, Aerosmith

to me is good. They were releasing the material unlike other classic rockers. And I just wanted to say on that Errol Smith. Uh hell, I don't even remember now. Sorry, sorry about that anyways. Look, Aerosmith has always been like the Scorpions were the heavy metal where they were always part of the conversation. But I never knew a Scorpions fan. You know what I'm saying, Like you never a straight up Scorpions fan. Okay, I

remember my question. I must have this answered. It is the person who sang mom skin different than the usual singer for freaking Aerosmith because it sounds totally different, which one Mama Ken, Oh, Mama kin. Yeah, I'll check that out because there was a weird lineup change that took place with Aerosmith.

But let's let's see who the Aerosmith's lineup was for that. Uh. And I'm gonna do that actually while I pick up the next caller because I want to get to him before we go to a break, and I think I got him. Now, how are you doing? Man? Yeah, what's going on? Well, you know, we're trying to navigate through a bunch of things, from the fires to the uh you know, to a rock and roll merchandise. It seems like tonight. So what's on your mind? Yeah, I don't forgot I was talking about you. Oh well,

I'm sorry. That's all right, that's all right, I understand, I totally understand. According to according to the lineup of Varro Smith though, just to let you know, Steven Tyler is listed as vocals and harmonica for Momikin. So, yeah, that's really weird because he sings completely different than in that song that he has in any other song he's ever made. I didn't know that Guns N' Roses covered that kind of makes sense when you listen to

Axel at certain points that he would try and cover that. I mean, if you if you say that Axel was not influenced by Steven Tyler, I mean, I don't know what to tell you, because he was. And there's also a saxophone on that song, which I forgot about. Uh. David Woodford played saxophone on that song. Joey Kramer's the drummer. Tom Hamilton is the bass player, Brad Whitford on second guitar, Joe Perry on first guitar. But Steven Tyler is listed as vocals, harmonica and would flute.

Just so you know, released in seventy three on Columbia. Okay, David David Woodford played the sax That's what it says. Yeah. So anyway, Harlan, what else is on your mind besides you know the strangeness? I mean, have you been keeping up on the directed energy weapon discussion? Uh? Are you curious about the JFK thing that we're gonna do on Monday, because I think you're gonna want to hear that one. Yeah, I'll listen to the majority of the point. Yeah, i'd like to thank you.

Got Yeah, I'm gonna do it on their platform. It's going to be a watch along on their platform, and we're gonna we're gonna break down this documentary. And it's not to personally target the person who did it. It's just about this information that has been repeated by more than one person already and is catching catching some air man. It's starting to take wings among alternative thinking

people and I'm going, oh man, not again. You know, come on, well you've got to come up with something that whoever wants a while, well they try to reinvented people come up, you know, with something else to get you know, especially younger people that are not being interested. It's not you know, people to smooth or looking at things. And I'm not guess where you get along. Yeah, but you know, to tell me that you've solved the case and to tell me that you've got the answers

and you don't you know, know, the basic information. It's a problem I mean, I understand you want to excite people with a with an interesting theory and do that. Do that, but identify it as a theory and don't build it on poorly shaped evidence. You know where you're telling me that the stuck open microphone was examined by the Warren Commission. That's just wrong.

That's not where that came from. Yeah, I've never I've never even heard that one, which I'm sure you know I forgot over than a lot of it those you know about it. But I've heard all kinds of saying. So I think one of the most interesting that you know, I've seen really was, you know, the the kill shot coming from the drainage stitch that was in that film that we discussed, you know, a couple of months

ago, that documentary JFK to nine to eleven. Everything's a rich franch trick I would kind of had in the sery and I you know, this might be out here everywhere before I say this, and they might be somebody already said, but I've just ever heard I always stop looking, you know what some of the videos and the way that you know, it was kind of back into the left and then it really you know, it kind of got like the side of his heads. It wouldn't necessarily mean somebody would have been

shooting like from the grass you noddle, like an angle. He could very well been somebody else, you know, a hundred fifty two hundred yards away, you know, using a rifle the chilence round me, and it would have made especially people, you know, screaming, you know, hey, miss the president. A lot of people wouldn't really you know, how to change early grass bone to it. And I'm sure you know there was other vehicles you know, in the area that wasn't moan the route, But I've

never heard anybody bring it up that that was a possibility. I mean, I've heard about you know, the machine gun, you know, accidental far from a rear. I've heard, you know a little bit of everything. But well, because of the yeah, you got problems with the line of site unless you're highly elevated right to get too far away from where he is Indey Plaza. So this is why I think people never considered that there was a shot from a fair distance. But I understand where you're coming from,

and don't dismiss it out of hand. But I will tell you something interesting that was published in a variety magazine. Uh says it was published May fifteen, twenty twenty three, and was just pointed out to me recently. But this one killed me. Vigo Mortensen shile above, Courtney Love. Okay,

yeah, JFK, what's that? Chris said that to me, But I've not ready to hit Okay, Well, let me just give you a little bit on this real fast, because here we go again, is what I say to this immediately, David, And I'm just gonna read from this article

real fast. Even mammoth JFK. Assassination thrillers taking shape, with Courtney Love, Vigo Mortensen shile above, Alpaccino, and John Travolta joining the cast the newly titled in quotes, Assassination. The pick was previously called Two Days nineteen sixty three, will be presented to buyers at the film market in Conns this week and I never saw this before. With arc Light Films handling international sales.

Here's the official synopsis for the project. Nineteen sixty three, During a crucial justice hearing against organized crime, the head of the Chicago Mob orders the assassination of President John F. Kennedy Jr. Creating a deadly conspiracy while altering

the fate of a nation. Directed by Pulitzer Prize winning and Oscar nominee Mammot, Heist and Wag the Dogger the films, the film is written by Mammot and Nicholas Celosi, who based the script on his great uncle, the Chicago Mobs Sam gan Kanna, who may have played a significant role in orchestrating the Kennedy's assassination. Previous reports about the film have indicated that it will focus on the events that took place forty eight hours before the assassination, telling the Mob's

version of the story. Silosie based the material on details shared hang On based the details. Hang On based the material on details shared by his late uncle Pepe gan Kanna's brother, who suggested that the mob's hand in the assassination was payback for President's alleged snubbing of gan Kanna and his campaign against organized crime despite his reliance on the Mob during elections. I'll pause, what did you want

to ask? Jimmy? Was started out if I recalled blaming Momo Lou move and then all of a sudden had switched to traffic Conte what happened there? I didn't say anything about trap Conte. I am Momo would be gian Kanna's nickname according to some but uh no, the snubbing of Giancanna. And this is based on this guy's uncle, who is supposedly Giancanna's brother, right, let's see the telling on this version. Late uncle Pepe's brother Gianna, not

Traficanta. Okay, I get it. I think the trafic contact because he's the one that actually was involved. Okay, but well trapa Kante would be the guy in Florida, which is not the Chicago guy anyways, Oscar winning, Yeah, I think him and Marcello would have a lot more interest in that thing than the Chicago guy. I don't know why they always try to

blame old I don't seem like hed much power at the time. Well that's the trouble there when you know, uh, you know who who actually was pulling the switches despite what people think at that point, when it comes to the Chicago outfit, which you got to look up, a guy named the Cardo Okay, Anthony Tonya Cardo. I forget what his nickname was, but anyway, that would be the guy calling a lot of the shots for Chicago

at that point. Not to say that gian Connor wasn't important and didn't become important, but yet nineteen sixty three, I would have more looked to a guy named the Cardo for this. Anyhow, if you're looking in Chicago anyways, Look, I'm just saying there is a constant barrage of we've got the solution, we've got the real theory, we've got the real whatever, and sometimes there's Hollywood people involved in it. I don't know where this project went

after that. I got to do some follow up research because what happened? What happened to this weird project that ends up with the likes of and by the way, why did they call him John F. Kennedy Junior when he's not a junior who was assassinated in nineteen sixty three? Could be a typo, I guess. Anyways, all of that having been put out there and everything else, let's put this out there. If you want to join us, you can do so. Three one nine five two seven five zero one

six. That's the number to call or reach out to me Charles dot Ocelli on Skype. And if you do that and ask me to I'll call you into the show beat Pets and of course Jimmy James Harlan another caller on the line now and maybe you if you join us three one nine five two seven five zero one six the Friday Night Open Mike Ochelly effect. We'll continue till at least quarter after ten tonight and maybe further impious support it stick around,

Uncle. Do you remember that time when Benjamin Fulford said that an Asian Secret Society was going to dispatch ninja's to take down the Illuminati? Oh that's interesting, yeah and the clatom? Yeah? Did that ever work out too good? No? It didn't, did it? But here on Oachlly dot com radio network. Things work out a bit better, don't they much better? It's clear and understanding about the programs. The programs much clear, getting live

people into it. They really have a good conversation going much better, so much better scene. I say, forget Benjamin Fulford and his ninjas and listen to the Ocelli dot com radio Network. I agree, it's straight to the point, straight talk and I like that idea. Dot com Uncle, I'll bet you remember the time when Benjamin Fulford said that the Asian Secret Society was going to dispatch ninjas to take out the illuminati, to change the entire world

for the better. That is never gonna happen. That never did it, never did didn't. Yeah, because there's a lot of false promises, there's fools, I can't we better not say and be polite, But there are no false promises at the Ocelli dot Com Radio network. That's exactly nothing. It's truth the point, white to the point in this what I left straight to the point, Olly Kelly dot com. Listen now, listen Wall Street Street, Window dot com, Gold, Silver, the stock market, Wall

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the Vietnam War by author Mike Swanson. The War State by Michael Swanson explains the great national transformation that took place and put the Kennedy presidency in the context of the times and reveals never before published information about the Cuban missile crisis. President Kennedy would not have been assassinated if he had been president two hundred years ago. His assassination took place in the context of the Cold War and the

rise of the national security state. Before World War II, the United States was a continental republic. In the decade that followed, it became an imperial superpower. Generals such as Curtis LeMay not only wanted to invade Cuba, but knew that there were short range missiles on the island armed with nuclear warheads that they could not destroyed because they were on mobile launchers. Their invasion could have led to a Third World War, and they wanted to go to war anyway.

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Remember, if they bitch, We'll make you a rich All Hawking Cocks Attorneys at Law five five five two four four two four two five on I say never makes I will make you all your way, not a shoe. I am trying not to say that my mind, just as you want what I tell ye, let us see that that's going on this stupid side, sad Jo. I can do my ye oh Chili dot com dot com radio network

Ohcelli in the Greek rated y is available here. Second segment of the live open mic and uh, apparently there's problems with people getting into the chat room at Ocelli dot com. Sorry about that. I don't know what's going on, but doing my best to navigate it all. Anyway, Uh, you can join let's hear if we're good laugh here and about I'm stings well okay, anyways, I was just reading notes here because people are sending me messages

in the Skype and I can't handle other tech issues right now. I'm trying to just produce the show and and and do the show. But apologies, if you're having trouble with the chat I'm not in control of Chattango. What I would suggest is you go to the separate Chattango page. Maybe I don't know if there's a problem with my site at the moment, I don't know. I don't know what's going on. There's been some gremlins. Let's see.

I go to my site and it appears to be working. Yeah, I'm just I just hit a random letter and typed it and dropped it. I don't know. It appears to be working on my end, but maybe there's problems over there. Maybe not. Anyway, I know the phones are working because I got two callers there, and I also just joined the skype callers, so all of that is functional here on a Friday night. So far, we've been joined by Jimmy James An Harland on the phone three one

nine five two seven five zero one six. Oh, let's see. I think there's another caller, Yes, there is. There's another caller on the phone line. And I've been joined by a skype by mister Chris Graves, who I was up this morning with for a bit, even though he was in the midst of a tornado and didn't join the new prisoners at the very

beginning of the show. He did join later. And I got strangely derailed by Lisa on that show for a moment there where I'm trying to explain one thing and she starts talking about the judge and I'm going, wait a minute, wait a minute. I was like, hold on, I'm talking about you as the presenter of evidence. If you're trying to tell a story as a lawyer, you need to have your ducks in a row. And she started talking about the judge and I'm like, well, in that case,

the judge is YouTube, the audience is the jury. And I'm still talking about the same problem. If you don't have your craft together and you don't know the evidence, how are you going to present a case? Anyway. It was weird for a minute there, but I think we got through it. And everybody's in their ways early in the day, right, So how you doing, Chris? What's on your mind tonight? And then we'll get back around the table see what speed Peak picked up and get to our other

caller as quick as I can. But what's going on, man? No, nothing much as I wish I had a show earlier, But you know, I had an older gentleman. I won't say his name, he's been on before, but you know, it is what it is. You can get to other callers, Chuck, I'm just glad to be a part of the show tonight. That's all well, fair enough, and I know the circumstance, and that happens sometimes people are supposed to show up for shows.

I had that happen almost a full week last week. You know, if Pete Pete had craped out on me at the end of the week, it would have been everybody that week I was supposed to show up on the mic with me didn't show. At least we had a good show at the beginning of the week with a filmmaker in a musician or whatever. So that's closer to me having mister Kevin Smith on too, I think. Yeah, excellent, excellent show and was interesting the guys in a punk band. He also

just put out a film. What's like Kevin Smith's assistant this podcast. Yeah, what's the name of that film he just put out? I forgot the name wrong reasons Like, uh, it's like a punk rock, d I Y themed thriller kind of thing. Guys. Pretty cool. He's spinning a lot of plates that I'd like to be spinning myself, you know what I mean. Right, Yeah, he's got an independent film out there that he

did like all the all kinds of work on it. He said he was wearing like five hats and doing a documentary on the late Michael Parks, that great character actor. He worked with him on Kevin's movie Tusks as an assistant and things. So yeah, Josh Rousch checking out a wrong wrong places. Uh, someone that myself you know, looks up to him, you know, because they're doing what I really want to be doing with my life, right, creating interesting stuff. That that thriller based on some sort of kidnapping

scenario. I haven't seen the film yet, but it looks interesting. Uh. And also yeah, his stories. He told a couple of interesting stories on there too, just in general, which I thought we were nice about, you know, hanging out and doing some of the other work that ends up getting done on films and uh, and stuff like that. So and it co owns uh. Yeah, he has a five percent stake in Kevin's fifth movie theater. So that's something I also would love to do one day.

You know. Yeah, I don't know what good movie theaters do anymore. I mean, I don't know if they're doing good business now. Now it's like a specialty thing, kind of like art houses, you know, that kind of thing. It's not any viable source of income, but somebody still like to do some day. No, but look, if I owned five percent of it, I'd be proud as hell. I'd displayed that on my wall, that's for sure. I mean, a movie theater in Jersey. Hell yeah, sign me up for any percentage of it. So,

I mean, yeah, and cool stuff. That was a good interview. So listening one more thing, and I'm also lining up an interview with at least one of the developers of the New Texas changedaw Massecre video game that went live yesterday I believe, No, it went live today because on the date in the movies August eighteenth, nineteen seventy three. So they they literally they

held it to the date in the movie from the original movie. So trying to get those guys on too, so nice, nice, Yeah, No, It's always interesting to see the people that you bring on because it's very interesting stuff. A lot of filmmaker people, a lot of people in the industry, very very good stuff. I'm not going to get more musicians some of the guys in Anthrax, but now now I see that Scottie and and you know, his take on the whole green thing kind of soured me on

Anthrax a little bit. So trying to get some of the old thrash guys, you know, like plus Head, even like the guy who did the artwork for Metallogist came on. People like that too, there's a guy. There's a guy to talked. I didn't know he was still alive plus head really yeah, yeah yeah, I'm just waiting the room to get back to me. Yeah wow, Okay, I did not know that. I mean, I'm at no offense. I'm not trying to miss anything on him.

I'm just saying I had this idea that he had done that artwork so long ago that he would be a guy who's gone by now. You know, he was like the guy's age, you know, like I guess James just turned sixty, so yeah, he's pread, he's around that age, I believe. Yeah, it makes sense. I mean, it makes perfect sense that those guys yeah about yeah good eight years older than me. That makes

sense perfectly. Yeah. So I'd like to get more more of the musicians on, Like I wanted to do that from the beginning, to be honest. But you know, I'll take like the horror movie folks. You know that's another in comic book, folks. But the thing that's been sorely lacking has been the musician side of things. Like I supposed to have Sully from God Smack on. Like I keep announcing these people and then they never show

up, so I'm gonna shut up. Yeah, I'm supposed to have a fairly well known main well not main alternative music drummer on pretty soon, so I'm waiting on that myself. I mean, look, I love talking to musicians too, So we're gonna get into more different guests coming soon, and we're gonna do this thing on Monday that I think is going to be fascinating where we're gonna break down the problematic information the popular film at the moment and

hope that we can sort of get people to understand that. Look, you want to be entertained and you want to watch fiction, identify it as fiction, and that's all fine and dandy, but which is which is funny? Check? I want to just remember, I don't know if you saw the thing I sent you, but I found it like right after you left the New Prisoners livestream. They're making a movie. David Mammitt wrote a movie about the jfk assassination and it has Courtney Love and al Paccino. Other people read

that article. I read from that article just a little while ago in order to get but that's from May of this year. That's not new. They were presenting that. No, but now they're no. But what now they're ready to start selling the rights to it? Oh god, well you see, but in that article they said they were offering the rights at cons that week. So that was back in May. So I'm like, I'm recycling it again because they're actually getting ready to show them the crap happened Vancouver,

I guess in September. Oh god, you know, and it's gonna be a you know, a mob did a thing, and already it's all the mob's point of view of it, which is not, in my opinion, not the right point of view. Well, well, here's the problem there, the mob's point of view. That's a hell of a statement. What is the mob's point of view? Really, dud? Mob didn't change the parade route? But no, no, but what is the mob's point of serious? Like, how do you qualify that even to say reliably? Screenwriters

uncle was Jean Connor. This screenwriter's uncle was Jean Connor's brother or something that he got the information from. Yeah, Peppe, I know, and that's fine, but that's not like the mob's point of view. That's Peppe's point of view, that's his idea. You know what I'm saying, if you go and you talk to a Gambino family member, you'll get a different point of view about the JFK sassination. I know this, so okay, it

was just upsetting when I saw that. And yeah, go ahead, Jimmy, And can I say one thing that really bugs me with all this mafia crap is nine percent of it came from so called mob lawyers. Oh yeah, so you know, boy thing, I mean a mobster. And then think of how dirty their lawyers are. I mean, why would you believe anything they say? And then now you got law clerks who worked for these lawyers right in these crazy books saying the mob dude, No, I know.

I listen, Jimmy, I'm with you here. The guy who is the lawyer for the mob guy is not well read into what's happening. Okay, he's just not. He knows what he needs to know, and that's it. And then you get into you got clerks and stuff reporting on. Stay. Yeah, you got problems here. You don't have the mob's point

of view. You know. I sat down with legitimate members of the Banano family, of the Gambino family, uh to to ask them about some of this stuff, and you know, not the oldest of old timers, but older than me by a long shot, uh many years ago. That wasn't my my phrasing either. By the way, that's what the article said, point of view, the mob's point. That's what I'm saying. It's ridiculous. And they also at the beginning of the article JFK Jr. John F.

Kennedy Junior. Uh no, yeah, that's that's not John F. Kennedy Junior. Okay, because his father's well, all right, fine, but it's just saying you get again, get your facts strewed. All right? Sorry, anyway, let me get to this next caller. I just want people to get their facts straight. At least you know you're gonna present me a crazy theory. Cool, but do it with real facts. I mean, you know, at least start there. Get your info straight. All right, hold on, so let's see. Oh, hold on,

I picked up the wrong line. Where is he? There? He is? Okay. Meanwhile, I've been keeping this guy on hold too long. How you doing, man? Hell? Yeah, good good. It's good to hear from vance Vanarchy himself. What's on your mind tonight? You got anything you want to throw on this table that will take us into a different direction. I'm sure you have different thoughts than the jfk assassination or who knows,

maybe you want to go way back. In the beginning of the discussions to Ted Nugent, the MAUI fires, uh, whatever's on your mind, bro go for it. Well, I did want to mention on the Kiss, and I guess Ted Nugent thing too. The first concert I ever went to was Kiss in nineteen seventy four in Houston, and I was there visiting

my mom nice for the weekend. There's been a whatever and heard about it, you know, they were going to be there, and she bought me a ticket and took had dropped me off and went by myself, all by myself, thirteen years old, I think it was. It would have been thirteen and makeup makeup, Yeah, that was with all the that's makeup. Yeah, well he spent blooded the show that I was at in eighty six,

but there was no makeup. And that's definitely a different era. Although coincidentally, funny thing is, I'm like thirteen when I went to go see that too. But uh yeah, but in your in your time, when you were thirteen, mans, they still had the makeup. They were just at the beginning of the huge launch their popularity. That's where it was right there in the mid seventies, early to mid seventies they started with the gigantic launch of the phenomena that became Kiss, you know, So there you go.

And like when it was like a really wild concert too. I can't remember now the bands because I didn't necessarily know most like the opening bands or whatever. But it was like Procol Harom or uh bands like that and stuff I can't remember now. Wow, pro procol Harum is a name. Yeah, procol Harum is a name you don't hear all the time anymore. Huh, that's that's not And there's another group that hasn't named kind of like that. It might have been one or the other. Anyway, it was like

a pretty wild, you know, affair. And I'd say my first concert and that that's what I picked. And and uh actually went to the bathroom at some point, like during animission or whatever, and people some guys offering the acid and stuff. You know, I'm like thirteen years old and I thought here about that, you know, but but it's like that's how crazy it was. Just luckily I didn't get no trouble or nothing. But it was all cool. I didn't have no problems to buy jack with me or

nothing nice. Did you take the ascid? No? No, yeah, I said, I just I just smoke pots, you know, I got you smoke some pot wires there. But but but yeah, but uh. And then about the Hawaii fire stuff, there's it seems to be a whole

lot of you know, coincidences going on with that, you know. And and to the point about the directed energy weapons stuff, and the the one thing I noticed just when I was watching footage of them, you know, the putters they were showing on the TV and stuff, and they're going down the shoreline and you know, people are in the water, you know, to escape the fire. And there's all these cars they're just burned up,

like I mean, burn the hell up. And one card literally has no hood and the motor is melted, you know, And I'm like, how did the fire get that? You know? The this the asphalt still and relatively you know, well as when you get somebody. But at any rate, that's something you know that I've been you know. And then they got the needs the directed energy weapon research. There's there's one there and one in

New Mexico, so that just happens to be there. And then the chief of police or whatever just happens to be the guy that was the the crisis management you know, head of whatever during the Las Vegas shooting thing for the Las Vegas Police Department, and now he's in charge of this one. So you know, I'm you know, could be coincident. I'm not saying it's

not a coincident. So I'm just saying there's a whole lot of coincidences, and that that that footage I saw there, and so, like I said, it's just hard for me to understand how an engine because that's the way it peers. Maybe I'm you know, miss seeing the picture or whatever, but I chafy advanced. I feel like that. Okay, you said the same. I found that interesting. The same cop that was involved in the Vegas fiasco is over in Hawaii involved in this. Did you say that really?

Yeah? Well, I'll say that's weird, and I will say that don't matter how these things started. The Vegas crap was just used water coincidence to push then anti gun and gender, and now are they doing it the milling crap in its climate change. Yeah, and it's just a land grab too. I mean, this is like they did in California. Let the stuff build up until it catches on fire and blame it on the power company and and you know by the land up for jeeps and you know, it's

a real opportunity crisis. Well that was the thing that killed me, man, is that immediately you know, these people that are still looking searching for their loved ones, their pets, they don't know the condition of their homes that even a whole lot of them, and the vultures come out. Man,

they just do. Uh. That is one of the most amazing and ridiculous things that happens every time there is something like us where you know, no matter what, and I don't know if that's you know, a natural thing or I'm not claiming that they you know that they're exactly the people who did it or any I'm not saying that. I'm just saying, isn't it amazing how quick people are? Like, Hey, you know a person that just survived the fire. I know you don't know where your wife is yet,

but you want to sell your house, you know. I'm just saying, like, what the hell, you know, come on already, can we capitalism get on board? Buddy? I know, but I mean, what the hell I mean, can you let people bury there? You know? Can you let people bury their dead before you go in for profit?

I mean, is that possible? You know, I don't know. Maybe they're using that excuse, you know, because bodies or ashes, and that's why they're not you know, we're letting people go because they'd just be trampling the ashes and you know, and all that. And I guess in that type of the fire, you know, that's pretty much what's going to happen anyway, right, So you know, I like to throw a few things

in here about what advances talking about ony side. Well, you know, the hood is burnt completely out, you know, foaters and sauted stuff, A lot of that is And I want to say, before you know, I get started, you know, I'm not saying that, and so I'm not saying, you know that whatever happen. The only thing I'm gonna say is there's a lot of these vehicles found are made out of fiberglass and all in them, and it doesn't take that much, you know, to burn

them completely up. I saw a Tesla that was burnt down on a cliff and all that was there was basically like the edge of the frames, the roof, everything was down and you can see it look like a goob of you know, used to be you know, something in Ala. But that's where you're getting seeing a lot of what vances, you know, talking about. I have seen some of the pictures from the California Fars that Chris Is talked about and Don Jefferys talked about it. I was in California just one

week, but for several weeks when that was going on. Different parts of dates, you know, look different, you know, around Neadles, there's a lot of white smoke that's over on forty are you come out of Arizona from like hav A, Sioux City, and then it turns in to once you get in you know probably you know, sixty miles towards like you're driving with like a ceiling and hell, everything's read. I had some pictures of

it. I sent a few people on messenger because by Cameron, messengers better than what my direct phone is. I'd wind up reloading my messenger in a while. Saw that, but you know, I think you know, gaps withal. It wasn't anything over around Bakersfield. Once you got tours to Hatchby, you know, had turned back to where it was like completely white,

even though you couldn't really see a far around. And I was some up in northern California outside of gilder Well around two lanes before lay diverted, a lot of traffic, and I mean the down far was like right there, you know, burning up to the edge of the paper and that was up there fight you know, as we was gone thirty very hot, which you know out west and the winds blown, you know, those farest can get

very hot. I can remember basically about twenty one years ago outside of Bakersfield was probably three hundred and fifty four hundred yards minimum, was not five hundred away from Afar And when I drove by, and it was like out in the field, whether the wind was blown, just driving by hit heating the complete side of the truck up, and it was went from an uncomfortable and hot so like it was just burning the hell out of and you just trying to get away from it, you know. The thing. I mean,

that was the thing. But I know when stuff was going on, you

know, back then out there. Hell, it just seemed like everything was on if it was a field, you know, a lot of this stuff you couldn't see it, you know, from the interstate that there was so much stuff that was on fire, you know, ship there would smoke everywhere and where this thing was that out west to Natles to words it it looked like, you know, like some of you Mars photos that you say, I mean it was wild I'd like to have a high clock camp, you

know, and looked at and good. Can I make this kind of one observation here just between nine to eleven and these wildfires. And I'm not saying it's a directed energy thing at all, because I don't have the evidence. Could I just say that those pictures of the toasted cars and whatever you used

to make may or may not think of doctor Judy Wood or whatever. I don't know what to make of her, to be honest, but when she was talking about those toasted cars that were, you know, as far away from the World Trades Hunter as FDR drive that we're completely melted and there's like papers everywhere that are not on fire. That's what some of these photographs in Hawaii remind me of Ore the toasted vehicles on nine to eleven, which to

this day is still a major oddity of nine eleven. And that's exactly where I was going, Chris, is that you know that it reminded me of that. And like in the footage that I've seen, and I haven't studied this extensively at this point yet, but to the in the in the perspective of the camera, the ocean's on the right and the lands on the left, and and it's a long way to anything that was ever on fire.

Like I said, it's not like it's in the middle of the forest or you know, in a house or you know there there's actually nothing, you know, very close. And of course the winds were blowing, you know, really really strong, which that's kind of an oddity. I don't I haven't looked into the meteorological you know, conditions at the time and and all that. But but but if the winds I understand that, you know, like aluminum melts it at like twelve hundred and twenty one degrees and so but

it takes a long time. It's going to take the long time of twelve hundred degrees or you know, blowing on that car and then there's people that are in the ocean, so you know, I would have to assume if there was a wind that was blowing a twelve hundred plus degree temperature across the land, those people would have been since the death where they ever got to the you know, to the ocean. Thus they were right there. So anyway, I'm just but I'm not saying it was because I can't prove it,

Chuck, So I'm not saying it was direct energy. I'm just saying really weird. Looking at it reminded me of those toasted cars like the like the and was just men. Yeah, and again I have a question. Good, sorry, go ahead, go ahead. I just had a question for Advance and Chris. I don't believe it was energy weapons. I think it was down power lines and for land management. But let's just say, Jimmy, that could be a too. I'm not just counting that at all. Hold on, hold on, I want to get to my question.

But let's just assume that you're right it was energy weapons. Why would you assume your own country did it instead of safe for I said nothing of the sort. I said nothing. Well, that's that's the thing. Okay, okay, hold on me Chris isn't saying that his own country did it. He doesn't say that it is energy weapons. He's just saying that it looks strange. That's the only thing he's saying. And it reminded him of that other strange thing, that's all he was saying. Yeah, what about events

switch your thought on the whole thing. Well, I mean it is strange that you know, there is a directed energy laboratory on the island, you know, So it's not like, well, you know, you know, I believe during eleven was our country attacking itself to push an agenda. So that's nine eleven. Well either way, either way, there's lots of people's views on that that go a lot of different ways. And you know, there is the let it happen or make it happen, or you know,

is it just a failure of imagination as described in the official story. I don't buy that. I got a problem there. I don't think there's a failure of imagination. But yeah, I do think there are there are. We're obviously lives in that report. For instance, clearly they've demoed that building seven because it basically spies Central where they kept all the information on the east coast, so that they self demoled that there will be for instance, and

building. So I'm willing to agree, Yeah, that's an interesting thing. Where where they would where where? Why not do that? As a matter of fact, See, the only strange thing about that to me is why not just come out admit that and say, look, you know what, we took down that building afterwards because we could and we already had the stuff built in there to do it. And that's all there is to it. I mean, just why not just say that, like, we took it

down. Nobody was you know, killed in the collapse of seven as far as I know, that was a continguency plan Chuck to admit that afterwards, but for some reason they didn't go with it. I'm not sure why, but that was brought up in the early days, but somebody would say to themselves, why not just got to that, you know, because it would be logical. I like, this information that was in that pile, we had a secure exactly what did you know? Did you know a lot of

New York cities? Uh, like the Uh they were keeping a lot of evidence stored there. They got destroyed. So now it's just world time. Yeah, there's a there's a ton of stuff there. Secret Service investigations that a whole lot of evidence was stored there. Nobody talks about that at all because the Secret Service had an office in that building and Ron and SEC investigate

the SEC investigations, there was a whole lot of stuff. Now they they state that, you know, there was probably facilities which had redundancies as far as you know, electronic files and all this, And maybe that's true. I'm not saying. You know, look, it would be idiocy to store electronic files in only one location, right, I mean, wouldn't that just be sensible to have redundancy elsewhere, But just that, Look, this facility

needed to be secure. It was no longer secure, and the only way to secure it was to make it unmanageable so nobody could go in there and possibly extract, you know, some hard drives, could possibly we demoed that building to protect various things. I would accept that explanation, and I would

say, Okay, mystery solid. You know, I would say, well, somebody made that decision, and it's probably the right move actually, considering the various things that were probably highly sensitive in that building from the Secret Service,

they actually suspended some of the recovery efforts to to remove files. Yeah, to have information from that building when people were still dying, and that would be a proper procedure, you know, like in my mind, and yeah, I don't trust look, and I don't trust the intelligence agencies as far as I could throw any of them, and believe me, I can't throw the CIA very far. But the point is that it would be malpracticed

to think otherwise. So that's why I say, you know, look, at a certain point, you got to accept that if you're going to have secrecy, and you're going to admit that there are various things that can't be shown to the world or the general public, then you're gonna have to take some interesting measures to assure but that that is secure. There's an interesting little

a little a little trivia, I guess from my past. The first stintive thing I did when I checked in with my one of my battalions, they were like gone on, they were already deployed and anyways, the regiment had air detachment air DEAT, and one of the first things Osama bin Laden did would blow up some of our embassies in Africa. You may recall of course, you guys say that he really didn't, but for some reason, I well, I don't answer. I don't. I don't say that he didn't.

Well, hold on just one second, Jimmy, Jimmy, hold on, let us let us speak either. Hold on a second, Jimmy, because I don't say that. I understand, but I don't say that bin

Laden didn't blow up those towers in the Cold War towers. I've never said anything like that, So please go ahead, though, Well some people do say that, maybe, Yeah, why is our whole purpose of going there was drue tree of all the paper documents, So you were involved in going and retrieving some of the documentation that was no longer secure in those buildings. Is that what you're selling me. Yeah, we pretty much had to go

there to retrieve all the paperwork and I detmold the buildings. I've finished the job. So yeah, that's perfectly normal. If in information is compromises that destroyed, Yeah, secure it one way or another. Secure to destroy it. That way, it is secured. It can't be disseminated if it is destroyed. I mean, it's not the ideal situation, but given the circumstance, that might be the path that they have to take. That's what I just said. You know, and believe me. I don't say that this

guy wasn't involved in all kinds of things. I just think it's questionable as to who was paying them at certain points in time. I am a question. Go ahead, all right. One question is this, and this is for everybody. You can jump in, because I'm sure people are gonna want

to jump in, all right. My question is this, why with nine to eleven do we automatically dismiss the possibility the building seven was damaged from all the debris that fell on it and fire started in the building, and they recognize that one side of the building was bowing out and on the verge of buckling, and knew it was going to come down and had made comments earlier in the day about it. Why does everybody automatically dismiss the possibility that the

building came down because it was damaged and had fires. That's my question. Why is that automatically dismissed? Well, because that never happened to a building of that type before, even when it was struck by the debris it was struck by well, well, wait, wait a minute. This argument that things never happened like this to a building before is not true. Buildings have been damaged and have had partial collapses, Buildings have been damaged and have been

full collapses. This whole notion that ovis never happened before. Just because something never happened before, does that mean that it can't happens very much video? There's too much videos. I've been the first one to say that. You know, back in the wild West days of YouTube, there was everything on there in the world, you know, spaceships, lasers, you know, I've seen the nuke in the basement gimmick. I mean, I've seen a lot of stuff, but it's kind of hard for big you know, I

means to be shot out of the side of the building. You know, what was access was it several I'll just say this, b there was adown heard it over several radios. What was the countdown front? Well, only bevil seen said that, you know, admitted it. That's in you know, almost every nine to eleven video that's ever been made, you know,

about pulling him. That's how Luke Ridowski, you know, he kind of got famous out of calling him out and at meeting you know, years ago, seeing that announced the building had collapsed way earlier than the other people like to say it was even further back. It was around eleven believe it was eleven o'clock ten forty five that morning. CNN announced that Building seven had collapsed.

Then they had they had the back backtrack, and then later on the BBC and CNN once again reported its premature collapse again, and then eventually one minute, just right, let me address a couple of things that have been said in the past few seconds. All right, One, talking about the

twin towers. I beams can be ejected sideways from a building during a major collapse because of the tension that is created on the metal structure before the tension is released, Yes, you can shoot I beams out across the city street and a collapsing building. Two, there is no video evidence showing that the myriad of theories that have been brought up, except for a structural collapse of Building seven, was anything but a structural collapse of Buildings seven. There is

no video evidence of it imploding or dropping at free fall speed. That's all been debunked. It well, can I finish one damn time on this are not true? That it hasn't been debate, they have been factually backed up if I by whom the video evidence itself to, just debunks everything that has been said in the past five minutes. If you study that, how much engineering have you done in your life? How much of you the shitloads of

it? And people automatically dismiss these things because of copies of copies of copies of videos. CNN announced that a building collapsed, as it ever across your mind that maybe CNN got some bad information and went on the air with it, didn't retract it, came back with the same info four hours later because somebody else confirmed, yes, the building has collapsed out of all the chaos going on that day, because CNN screwed up, that's proof of something other

than the building collapsing. Be realistic here. Well, see, I've always I've always argued about that because look, there was plenty of inaccurate things that were reported as factual that day, and I remember them. Allegedly the capital was bombed on the ground, there were car bombs in DC that had detonated, supposedly confirmed reports, uh you know, and and they were wrong. We didn't have explosions in areas of DC where they were being reported that had

actually occurred. There was other things that had gone down in Manhattan that they reported that were inaccurate. There was a lot of confusion. True. It is just very strange to see the BBC reporter with the image behind her of the building still standing there and talking about it collapsing, and that video feed

gets cut it. That is a weird piece of video because you would think not the person on camera, they don't know what the hell's behind them, but you would think somebody producing this might know that that's Building seven behind her still. And some people would say, look, the BBC didn't know which building was which. How how did anybody know which building was which until we

started talking about this. After the destruction of the World trans BBC claimed that they lost their footage from September eleventh, all the footage until that clip came out five years later. Yeah, but that in and of itself, Chris, doesn't necessarily prove what I'm saying. There's something there where they're making the claim, like NASA making the claim that they lost all of the Apollo footage. Yeah, that's weird. It's the most important days in America and the

world is three. They're gonna lose all their footage conveniently. It's weird stuff it and filmmakers should know better. I'm sorry, ahead sorry, Is it not possible that somebody screwed up? Could somebody have thrown out the footage? So? Could somebody have misplaced it? Could they still have the footage? But it's in a bark, you know, a box marked third centennial celebration.

Who the hell knows? Look, but just because because these things happen, they're blown out of proportion, and then after they're blown out of proportion time and time again, suddenly they're accepted as fact and they're not. That's what kills me about this whole building seven was heavily damaged from having an eleven hundred foot building drop on top of it. It was damaged, It had fires in it, it collapsed. What is hard? What is Why does

it have to be this vast conspiracy? Who? Look at Barry Jennings, Barry Jennings, there's your conspiracy, Very Jennings. Look up, Verry Jennings, there's your conspiracy right there. Well, look, I say that there is plenty to be argued about all this, and there's plenty of strange things in it, and This is why you hear me often say well let's test this, you know, and and again look what the BBC did or what CNN did. This has nothing to do with the primary reason why people think

this. The primary reason why people think this is because you see a very consistent and even collapse out of a building that was not evenly damaged. This is why. And also look buildings that are constructed in this way. I've had longer, hotter fires and not collapsed before, after and during that time period. So, okay, they had fix. Did they have a building fall on top of it in in coordination with those fires? No? In some cases they were hit by all kinds of things. But the thing is,

again I'm just talking about the fires. Okay, did they have a building fall on top of them? Well, in other cases, other buildings have fallen into other buildings. And we also again to not know all of the details from you know, from soup to nuts, from beginning to end, and to not go through all this stuff myself, I can't say that it is absolutely consistent with a normal collapse or not. This is why I bring on people that you know, should have architect and engineer backgrounds in order

to discuss these things. This is why I do it, because yeah, I had Richard for the exact reason that you're talking about, you know. So I just tell you that I see this and it looks strange to me. Be Pete. It looks very strange and suspect now. But I'm not saying. I'm not saying that the government's position on nine to eleven is gospel. I have tons of questions about things were allowed to happen and some of the things that happened in between the building impact and the buildings coming down,

et cetera. But to completely dismissed the fact that Building seven could have come down because it was damaged and had fires is completely ridiculous. Buildings are made by man. Nothing that man makes stands forever. I've been an engineering and long enough to know that even the best designed things failed and to say that it had to be this, it had to be that it had it had there this vast conspiracy. I just nobody has been able to provide the information

or the proof that definitively says that building was blown. There's no proof of it out there. There's a lot of inconsistencies and a lot of things don't make sense up impure ABP going real fast. I don't even know much about this nine eleven conspiracy stuff. You say building seven, so you're talking about the Twin Towers actually themselves, right, No, No, this is a

building with sprit build You talking about the security building, the building. He's talking about the building with the Secret Service office in it, with the emergency command center in it, which is not one of the twin towers. The twin Towers are technically buildings one and two in the complex. It was Judy Giuliani's emergency blower, reinforced for earthquakes, news, all kinds of things.

Yeah, yeah, but came down in like free fall. So we're not supposed to ask all I've even heard, even Dan Buddy, I'll tell you, yeah, tweat them out that thing. Yeah, I would for people that understand exactly what free fall means. That building did not come down in free fall. Came down. It's none of the bins, and it was fourty seven stories. Yeah, it's not precisely at free fall speed. It's very near it, but it's not precisely at free fall speed that I've been

over with people. If you'll give you an example, this is a perfect example of free fall. As the towers collapsed and you see the aluminum cladding flying off the side, and you see the rubble debris and the huge balls of dust that are falling out from the building, that is free fall. Those items fell, they reached terminal velocity as they fell, except for some

things didn't because of the wind resistance against them. Well, in building, none of the buildings fell at free fall speed, well one of them, and one of the buildings did not fall one of the buildings. The two towers did not fall straight down either, because if you examine the footage carefully, you can see the top I don't know how many floors actually literally fall to the side corrects it and then the rest of it it actually corrects itself.

Well, but that's what happens. What happens is then the rest of the building starts to go down. This part, which is leaning out in one direction kind of goes back on top of the rest of it and goes down with it, which is really a bizarre looking thing. I don't know if that is what it looks like. It should have continued and yeah,

I don't know that when that's started to twist and fall. There was still a corner of it connected, and that's why you see the twist where it starts to go over, and then as the floor's bolt where it's connected start falling again, it seems to correct itself. But they didn't fall in their own footprint. How many blocks had debris surrounding that entire complex? I mean, it was the devastation and the debris was so wide and fall it fell,

and it's all the footprint. No, none of the buildings fell in their own footprint. They went everywhere. See. Now, I've always tried to tell every nine to eleven skeptic that that is one of the false statements that when they say it fell in their footprints, any of them did, they're lying because it went for blocks and blocks the debris we're not talking and these are city blocks. Okay, this is not This is not something where it fell in its footprint. It No, it did not do that.

None of the none of those three buildings did that. I know. This Another big thing that I hear is you know the steel in the in the building. And I got into this with one of Fetzer's crowd where they were talking about this massive steel structure. It wasn't a massive steel structure. It was basically a tube inside of a tube with a cap block on it. And when that top section fell, that's what took the resistance off and stuff

started slinging everywhere. And when you put metal under tension, yes, you can get a spring effect in it. It happened all the time in building buildings when something's not lined up and when it's not racked properly as they call it. Well, you can get a lot of anomalies in metal just from twisting it and the amount of pressure that's put on in certain places. But the things that I hear from the steel at the top of the building was

how can an airplane pierce this? The aluminum that was used in the airplanes that went into those buildings actually had a higher tensile strength in the aluminum that they line those the wings and the fuselage whist than the steel in the building. It had a much higher tensile string VP. Can I ask you for something, had Can I ask you what you see that I need to ask you? Do you believe that there was any kind of explosives in the building. That's all I want to know now, not that brought it down.

Well, look about this thing I was talking about where where you see the top of the building twist away and it looks like it's going to fall over, and then it pulls itsel back. The idea that it is still connected to that building and was probably just pulled down by the sheer force of the rest of the collapse makes sense. But it is the weirdest looking thing. I mean, it just it doesn't make common sense to you if you're imagining

this. But the debris field, the way that this was sprayed around, as I've tried to explain, if you take a look at the dust going across the river and going into New Jersey, that's a hell of a spray from the dust. But there are solid, huge chunks of this that are flying for blocks. Okay, don't care what anybody tells you. That debris field was not in its own footprint, not even remotely. None of those

buildings were. That debris was spread there for weeks because even at the time that I could get on the island much later, the devastation was immense, and it was it was widespread. They didn't fall on their own footprint. I've always objected to that it might have looked like that on TV because they didn't run the cameras down the block for you too much. All right, but if they would have, you would have seen pieces of those buildings shot

into what looks like they were shot into other buildings blocks away. Okay, well sorry, what was that? The tops? Okay, BP, go first, and then and then Harlan, Sorry, go ahead, BP. The tops of those buildings were roughly a fifth of a mile high. They were over a thousand feet. You take anything dropping a thousand feet with that kind of weight and the amount of damage it does and grinding it all up, I mean, I don't. Chris asked a question about explosives. Yeah,

there may have been explosives in the building. There may have been explosive somewhere in the building. But the explosives didn't bring those buildings down. There's no proof of explosives bringing those buildings down. None. Well, again, it is about the New York firefighter oral history. So most of them say they hear these explosions going on. Are they hear all right, they're hearing an explosion a sound that they described as an explosion. Are they hearing equipment

failures? Are they hearing stuff falling from one floor to the next. Are they hearing things that have overheated or things that are burning because the sprinkler system was knocked out that they couldn't put out fires and suddenly explode. Yeah, they heard explosions. But you're going to hear that in the building that's on fire over multiple floors and suddenly starts collapsing, You're gonna hear explosions. Here's

another question. Yeah, here's another interesting question about that about the loud sounds is does anybody know what it sounds like when a steel beam is snapped? Because various steel beams were certainly snapped, Okay during this event, those I would imagine make a loud noise. I'm just saying, and this is me using my imagination. Explosions, beams splitting, I understand, But do you know what it sounds like when a huge steel hood is probably know the difference?

Well? Do they How often do they hear how often do they hear steel beams breaking? And how often have they been near something like that? See, that's the other thing. Oral histories gets you a little bit crazy because the false memory. No, no, no, no, I'm not doing false memories. Stop. You're arguing with me before I even finish.

When you look at what went on with the Pentagon, right, and you take a look at the guys working at Arlington Cemetery, you can't even line up the airplanes with the official explanation remotely with what some of these guys are saying what they saw. And they work there every day. They know the directions that they're standing in. They know what direction they saw a plane come in based on landmarks that they see every day. It came over this building

and went that way. It doesn't match the data. It's I'm just saying that. You look, you can say the data's false. You can say the guy's memories false. Something's wrong. So when you go into oral histories, what is it that they're describing. I don't know how often does a New York City firefighters see a building collapse like that? Well, as I said before, I don't think of building ever collapsed like that before, So nobody has ever seen or heard that before. This is a new thing.

I'm not saying you're wrong, Chris. I'm just saying that these are the questions, right, These are the fair questions. That's all I want to make a point of this. All right, well, look, I'm going to close this out pretty soon, but go ahead, ma, answer. And just in my study and on the construction of the building, the towers, the core of the building was a very robust structure. And and I

don't remember seeing any pictures of any beams that were snapped. I've seen that they got the one they got in the museum just like bent around another, you know something. You know, it looks like ben But I do have pictures on my phone of those beams with two firemen sitting on the edge of one and and in the background and on the one they're sitting they are cut on a diagonal. Okay, you know they're they're six and eight inches thick

and box beams and they're cut diagonally. So you know, I don't know how that happened, but there are pictures of it. Yeah. No, how those beams were cut diagonally is a very good question. Uh, And I think it is a fair one. You know, how do you end up with that? But look, I'm just saying that they that those beams

ended up in various conditions when they were hauling them away. You know, it doesn't boil down to just the one twisted one they got in the museum, right, It boils down to there there was a whole lot of that stuff being hauled away in quick time. They were trying to clear that area. And you know there there's that interesting piece of it too, is why are we clearing the crime scene in the way that they did with the GPS

on in the trucks and everything. Yeah, well, you know I would put GPS in all those trucks to make sure somebody doesn't abscond with some of this stuff, because you know, you never know what people are willing to walk away with tawas that that's not with conspiracy of their careers. You know what I'm saying is they put it they if one of these truck drivers even pulled over for two minutes, they would have cops like on the scene,

and they want to know why they just stopped. I gant he uses a heavily guarded stuff, and it's not just oh they're just gonna steal the metal. None of that metal got to be tested properly. Even the Firefighters Official magazine were complaining in January two thousand and two, they were complaining that Juliani's just shipping this off to be recycled in China. Even the people that developed the World Trade Center, they were mystified of why the buildings came down.

That's what upsets me is the guys who built the thing didn't even know why they came down. Wait a minute, Wait a minute, wait a minute. There was It wouldn't have been it. There was an interview with the guy that did the actual designs and when they designed that building. He said, yes, we designed it for to take a hit. It was a smaller plane that we used in the modeling for seven o field. Building stood for almost an hour after they were hit, before they were before they collapsed.

So people say that they automatically, you know, fell, That's not true. They did what was designed. They stood long enough to basically evacuate the buildings. Now, granted, some people didn't get out because of the type of damage done when the planes hit them and cutting in off access to lower floors, but the building actually did was it was designed to do, and that was sustained the impact long enough to get the people out of the

building. I can, I'll have to go and get the link for the interview, but no the guys that actually designed that building and built it were not dumbfounded as to watch. I will find those those articles now, because yeah, they were almost the guy that you're talking about, actually he died in the World Trade Center because it was in the beginning of two thousand and one. He said it was like a pencil going through mosquito netting on a

screen door. Well, bring why you're talking about. But the people that were so alive, they were mystified of the buildings should not have come down. Well, I know that there was a mixed result among people who had worked on the original building as far as what they said, And some of them said exactly what Pepete said is that this building did basically what it was supposed to do by staying standing after the initial strikes. And I know that

there were others who said, and use that mosquito netting thing. Now, I'd love to take a look at all this stuff again because I haven't looked at it in many years. I gotta be honest. Well, and the guy he's talking about is the one that said about depends on the mosquito netting. Well, fine, you know what you do. Bring Let this how they eat to wait a minute. If he died in the building, how did they interview him after the building because the interview was from January at two

thousand and one. Okay, no, no, no, no, no no no no no. Okay, the gentleman gave an interview about the fact of the building coming down and said, the building did what it was designed to do. Now, how could he explain that it it did what it was designed to do if he was dead? But I'm talking about right,

Here's what I would like. Here's what I would like you guys to do, is, uh, go ahead, and each of you send me the links this week to what it is you're talking about, and let's kick off next week's show exactly with this and uh, and go through it and see exactly what it is you guys each have. I want to see these interviews and we'll play pieces of them right here on the show. How does that sound? Does that sound like a fair deal? And go through it ourselves

and read from if we got to read it the text. If it's text, I'll read it. If it's an audio or video, I'll play it. How about that? Is that a fair thing? I do? Got jump in and well, yeah, but I want to know from Bpete, what do you think it would that be cool with you if we brought the links and stuff next week and started off the show with that, let's compare these two things. That's that's gonna be a very contentious show. I'll go ahead and tell you now. Maybe so, but I okay, bring it.

It's all over and done with. Let's move on. I well, I don't want to do that. I would rather bring this on and play this ship. Explain that comment right there? He won, he won one? What did I win? Well, you're send me this stuff and I'll do it. Chris, you don't even got to do it. Send me the stuff. I'll do it, all right, I'll go through it. Just send me the stuff, that's all. And I'll compare and play these things, and I'll let anybody who wants to call in comment about them,

all right, and if it's text, i'll read it. Is that not fair enough? You don't even got to do it. I'll do it, okay. I'll take the take all of what it is. You guys, send me, both of you. Send me the links to these things, these interviews with the people that constructed it. Because my memory tells me that there is some version of this story that will emerge if we play and observe both of these things, and we'll get it straight. So I don't recall

exactly. I'm on the side of in my mind thinking that Chris is right and there was one guy debunking this that was part of the people that were part of the original construction effort. But I don't know, maybe I'm wrong. I want to go over it and take a listen to it, take a look at it, play pieces of the interview, and see what it says. Let's take a look at what has been memorialized and see what we can make of it. I think that's the only fair way to look at

it. So I'll do that next week. And Chris, you don't even gotta come. Just send me the stuff, send me the best stuff you got on this particular issue, and let me go through it and let me play it and let me see what we got. Okay, that's what I'll do. I'll make it as easy as possible, and I'm not gonna yell at anybody. I'm not gonna fight with anybody. I'm just gonna sit there and go through the evidence because it's not about anything personal. It's about the

evidence is debunker thing. It's like if you're married to a certain side, I'm not married to any side. It's just very frustrating. After twenty something years, it's like, you gotta keep that I understand. Listen, you think I don't understand that. I've been through this so many times where I've got to sit there and tell somebody a hundred times that no, you're wrong about that particular. You're literally incorrect about this. Here's why. I show

them why. And it doesn't matter. That happens to me all the time. But I'm not saying that that's happening in this case. I'm saying open mindedly that I would like to go and compare these things and see what we can get out of it. So let's put together those interviews. Let's see what the original construction people that each of you guys says. You have a recollection of making these statements. Let's go through the statements and see what they

say. The earlier you send it to me, the better chance I'll have of being able to go over and ahead of time so I know what to play. I can record stuff, I can get clips together and make sure that we get it straight and we can answer this question. That's what I think is fair. Anyway, Harland, you said you wanted to add something

in. Yeah, yeah, there's several points I'd like to go down the list here, you know, that birthday, such as the stuff that Chris has been sitting here saying I've sawed the same And like I said, you know earlier, I've seen some of the craziest ship of course, you know when they was all kinds of series. I mean just you know, just a lot of crazy and a lot of stuff that Chris is I'm saying I've seen the same. So it is basically, you know, it's it's gospel

in the theories zone, if you will. A lot of the stuff you know Chris and the things about barging and you know another name, Lavi's Lewis Rodriguez. Isn't Chris, guy that went up to save the people when you chearing everything, that's William Rodriguez. But go ahead, William Rodriguez. Yeah, well, uh, something else I want? Okay, Jesse vent curious he made a big deal with my sermoid. You know, the sermi came, you know, in the early two thousand and tens. You was seeing

out a lot. You start mains. There was the place in Nebraska that had a piece allegedly it was a piece of one of the Ivans, out of the one of the twins hours and he had been there for several years and it you know, when Jesse want to talking about that, I was a sudden it just wasn't bared. I noticed, you know, coming through

one that that was something that kind of true. And one of the reason I know, you know Venturi, you know, he he's you know, tiding like a dollar, you know, and everything, and I'm sure some of that stuff. No he bleed face, but you know it was, you know, a monitory if I do this show when I've heard that, and I understand that. But you know, like you know, danced Christmas saying about the diagonal cuts. I owned the meddle as you know, well

they had a chance to go in doing anything cutting any meddle up. You know, some of the pictures has got George Bush in them, and then cutting the diagonal didn't look like, you know, had been hit with a blasma cutter like some of the furmounts up to Maybe that's just hard to go. I mean there's a lot more, you know, I can say about it, but I know that you know, I don't happen, and you know far at the point about building themselves, it is pretty much you know

these days is like what Chuck was saying. A lot of people you know, have filed over that. You know, they just went in there just to suck. If we got a grigs and we can't take a change smation, they can get something and here again, as far as they inside job, you know, part goes, I understand that. But everybody in the federal government and local and state government was not going to be in those so

I would say that's birth wise. Well, if they just went ahead and just pulled it in Larry Silverstein said, you know in an interview that they decided to pull it because they've been so much losses, bad interviews out there. It's not hard to find. There's a lot of Jimmy said something earlier. Now he didn't know a lot about this, the Building seven stuff. A lot of people accept that that he wasn't. You know, accouch got

on far in a couple of foucas. But you know, the best way really, you know, for anybody out there to understand any of this. It's not that well read into it. There's many documentaries you know, still here and there on YouTube. You've got a search for them. The right way. You can look on Rumble. I've seen a lot on bitch Hut. And the only way you can fully come to, like to the conclusions that you know Christmas talking about, is you have got to watch hours and

hours listen. Then you've got to figure out what complete bullshit You've got to learn to be able to discern through a lot of this stuff, and some of these movies is gonna have a lot of facts out the bullshit, you know, or stuff after our war, some foreign lady is saying nobody died. You'll see stuff like that. You may still be able to found them. The new Gimmick and the basement with the Russian I'm sure where Chris has

probably heard of that. But at the end of the day, you have to look feel a lot of this shit to kind of get a grasp of, you know, the provisional story. Don't sounding I'm not saying George Bush was over here with his you know, flow him on the button. But one more thing I'd like to ask, you know, how to all this, people can say conspiracy, this gonna happened, that could happen. There's one thing for sure that we could find out about Smalls. They wanted to

snow, and that's what happened at the mini cameras. There's no excuse. You know, I've seen the little smile plane snippets to come out back here. What was it, Chris, six or seven years ago? Maybe eight? Oh, the handful of friends, you know, yeah, the five friends at the kind of guy knows a suspect too. But that's a whole of the thing. For a long time, you know, it was like this one of word looked like a smaller plane, the pentagonal unofficially released thoughs.

By the way, look, there's also a thing that in the chat here. I just put that last link there if you want to open there, Okay, I'll I'll get to that, and believe me, we're gonna get to this again next week because we're we're really over our time. But that one last link, man, I'm telling you, it's powerful stuff. Okay, I believe you, and we're gonna get to it. I assure you. I'm gonna look at all the stuff you guys send me and We're gonna go through it. The last link right now, like just that one

link, dude, that's it. We're talking about next week. Okay, let's see explosion planted in towers. Okay, look, I can't read this right now, all right, I'm just telling you, but but I will, all right, and we'll go through it. As far as the Pentagon goes. The one thing that's always been suspect to me is as follows. I find it impossible to believe that there wasn't enough surveillance on the Pentagon to adequately know instantaneously what happened, really, because it may zero sense to me.

There was plenty of surveillance in the area. There was plenty of surveillance. I mean, you mean, I think all the cameras were cut truck they weren't working. There wasn't overlapping uh surveillance on the Pentagon enough to account for this. If that's the case, you know, uh, you know,

BP, here's here's where we go with. You know, how stupid are the people at the switch If that's the case, you mean to tell me that that's not the most monitored building, Like I don't know in America, I would think it would be one of the most monitored buildings in America, the Pentagon. I have another amateur question, is that the plane that now I know, the crazy Dick Chaney gave bl Okay somehow to shoot down

some plane, Is that the one that ended that? No, that's the one, the one hang out, the one that that that went down in Pennsylvania is the one that some people say was shot down. I don't know

what to make of that either. That's the Shanksville, Pennsylvania thing, where you know, you have a widespread debris field and according to many accounts, there is not enough to account for that whole plane in the debris field the way they describe this thing hitting the ground and everything else, which, by the way, is very interesting because Hollywood created a Flight ninety three movie, and a whole lot of people take that movie as gospel because it's based on

the real events, etc. And it's based on really good information that came from this or that or third thing. But what's fascinating is just by default you realize then a whole lot of what's depicted in there, whether you're trying to figure out what the color was of the you know, the scarves, the guys tied around their heads. In that movie, they all tie red scarves around their heads at a certain point. You know, headbands like these

weird like it's almost like karate kid looking headbands they all put on. I don't remember that being in anybody's account. I don't think it was accounted for. I think a lot of it was generated to fill in the story, and that's what occurred there in Hollywood. Now, as far as did they do that in the official explanation, clearly, I think they did. I think lacking information in certain spots, some people filled in information because maybe they

didn't have high enough clearance to see everything. That was an issue. That was an issue during the commission, And do we know the answers. I don't think that we were adequately given the answers as to what occurred that day, but it's certainly reshaped our reality going forward. So anyway, the Ocel effect is done for this week. Got a little bit contentious here at the end, but it is what it is. I'm happy to do this and

happy that you guys could be along with us. I hope that we'll accomplish something again next week with it, and we'll see where it all goes anyway until and I'm merely ocelly y'all if you were in DV effect good night. Hey. Look, I actually have a little offer that I want to drop to everybody who's on here and anybody listening, if if you don't mind, mister Cooper, I'd like to take a minute and make a little offer and uh and ask of everybody watching, listening and participating. No, not at

all. Okay. Look, I am continuously building my little network and I've got a twenty four seven radio station okay online, it's got a bit of reach. It's been interesting. I've had it running steadily without interruption for I don't know, five seven years something like that. But here's the thing I would love to get because some people are going to start paying to run things on my radio station, but I don't. I'm not looking for money here

today. I mean, you know, I'll take it if anybody's got something they want to give it up, but you know, because I could use it, but I'm not looking for that right this minute. My offer is simple, Actually, if you have short audios that you would like because you have a presentation, a tight five ten minutes worth of something that you think is absolutely worthy of the world hearing. Okay, because I have listeners all over the world to that radio station. They're not in huge numbers all at

one time, but they're constant twenty four seven. Every country you could possibly think of tunes into my radio station at one point or another. It's not huge. It's not like, oh, I've got millions of listeners, but we do have thousands, and we have thousands of people that tune in and catch get Mad with Chris Graves, and catch the replays and catch my show, which is the Ocelli effect, and they catch the replaces and they catch

Aaron Frowns as the age of transitions. Pretty soon they're going to be catching the called Priestess on there anyway. And I've got offers to other people to join us, you know, working on it. But here's the thing. I don't care if you're a podcaster, or if you're a musician, or if you're just somebody who's got some great thoughts. So you take the world needs to here, do me a favor, record them, make an MP

three and send them on over to me. I want to start populating the stream for the next little while with stuff that I'm not charging anybody to run. It's just good stuff. Send me your good stuff, okay, Blind JFK researcher at gmail dot com. Just email it to me. Yeah, all right. You got music. Maybe you're a musician. Maybe you're a podcaster, and you want to do an ad for your podcast because you want other people to live. You haven't been a guest on my show. Maybe

you have been a guest on my show. I don't care. Tell me together a couple of minutes. Tell me why people should listen to you. Tell me why people should pay attention to something else. Why should they pay attention to what's going on in Congress? I don't care. Send it over to me, Okay. I want to populate this with anybody who's got good ideas. Okay, it is outside of the mainstream for the next little while. We'll still run our replace we'll still run our regular shows. Okay,

but I want to see what happens if I open it to everybody. I'm not asking you to pay for ads again. You could do an ad for your podcast. You could do an ad for your rock Finn channel. You can. I don't care. Send me something that is of interest that moves information. Forward. That helps to educate people. Whether it's your project, your song, your poem, your article, you want, your a writer you like to write, read me your article. Send it to me.

Okay, do any of this and send it to blind JFK researcher at gmail dot com. If you can't remember that, go toocelly dot com. Click on the email same there. It might go to that email address. It might go to info atocelly dot com. I control both of those, so it doesn't matter. Email it to me. I will play it, Okay.

I'm not gonna say I'm gonna play it a million times. If you want to make an arrangement to play a commercial with me, I do have open adspace, but and I'm looking not to charge people a lot of money. If you're doing a small project, we can customize it all that stuff, and we need support for the network shore. But I'm not looking for money today. I'm looking for your ideas. I'm looking for your voices. You want to be heard somewhere. You think you're not being heard enough places.

Send it over to me. Send me a short piece of audio. Okay, don't send me videos. I can't play videos on my stream. It's a twenty four seven audio radio station. Okay, and I'll be more than happy to add you to the mix. I'm suspending. I usually don't like to have harsh language on my station. We're not going to bother with that because I'm no longer carried on AM and FM. Fuck it, we're going Okay, bring it to me. You got and show me your good

ideas. Show me your good podcasts. Anybody on here, you guys all have some sort of podcasts you do. Send me an after your podcast. Fine, you got good ideas, obviously, you think, because that's what you're making. Send me good ideas, Send me the good material, send me the good places to point people too. You've written an article you're proud of, read it, send it to me. You wrote a song, you think it's great. You're not going to hit me for using it for

copyright. Actually, I've got a license. If they copywritten stuff on my online radio station, send me your music, no problem. Original things that moved through conversation still worth the stock market. Wall Street Window do. Perhaps you're invested deeply, Perhaps you're not in deep enough. Maybe you're thinking about getting started Wall Street Windows dot com dot com Michael Swanson the brilliant author of the War State understood these trends professionally for many years, and now he gives

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War and the rise of the national si purity state. Before World War II, the United States was a continental republic. In the decade that followed, it became an imperial superpower. Generals such as Curtis LeMay not only wanted to invade Cuba, but knew that there were short range missiles on the island aren't with nuclear warheads that they could not destroy because they were on mobile launchers. Their invasion could have led to a Third World War, and they wanted to

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