The Ochelli Effect 7-6-2024 Open Mic

Get ready July five, twenty twenty four, allegedly according to that thing we call a calendar. This the O'Kelly effect. You listening to us, hopefully live, but if not, you're catching the podcast as most of you do, and uh a lot of you not really listening to the calling show anymore. On the podcast, I notice the drop in numbers, pretty drastic, but you know it'll bounce back, because it always does. We just got

to hit the right topic. Guess who that's up to, Not us, not me, be Pete my co host, No, not O'Kelly and b Pete. It's actually up to you. You can call in and join us three one nine five two seven five zero one six three one nine five two seven five zero one six or reach out to me Charles dot O'Kelly on Skype and I will call you into the show if you so request it. But yeah, you get to choose the topic, You get to talk about what you want, and I want to try and move things along quicker through the

calls. So call up with something on your mind. It doesn't have to be whatever the hell it is me and be Peter well kind of chewing up time talking about You can bring up anything you want. We're talking politics. You want to tell us about how KFC has gone downhill, no problem. You want to call up and tell us about water main break in your local area, what you observed, how it is your last ride in an ambulance went, doesn't matter. If me and be Peter talking about sports, call

it and do it, break it up any which way you want. Three one nine, five two seven five zero one six open lines. I'm not sure if we have Aaron Franz tonight or not. Uh So I'm waiting on word for that. If we do, good deal. If not, hey,

it's another Friday in the books and we'll move it along. I've actually got one extra piece to play toward the end of the show, a legal analysis about something that a lawyer did that well is a lot more confident than something I tried to explain on an earlier show, So I thought, maybe I'll play that, or maybe I'll save it for next week. Who knows.

By the way, next week, I will have two shows, if all goes well, two shows with Joan Mellon coming up next week, one of them on a subject which you've heard from her before on my show The Kennedy assassination Jim Garrison for sure. But before we do that, you're going to get a show from Joan about her brand new book, which is unusual, not released yet, but I happen to have one right here in my hands already, and I will figure out a way to make some free books

available to people. It's called Sherlock Being Catfished. It's the shortest book I've ever seen Joan Wright. I mean, I don't know, maybe her Bobby Knight biography is shorter, but this is a super short book, and it is a complete departure from what Joan generally writes. And I gotta say I'm

looking forward to discussing it whether it's going to be decidedly different. We'll do that and a show on her two books on Jim Garrison, and then afterwards, if you guys want shows with Joan, she has agreed to take your feedback and work with it. So you want to talk about, you know, our man in Haiti, you want to talk about the great Game in Cuba, you want to talk about the Garrison books some more, whatever it is, you guys, give me feedback for the following week. We'll hit

it on the show, So that's a special arrangement with Joan Mellon. Looks like Larry Hancock will not be joining us next week but possibly the week after, and we might have Mike Swanson back next week. So ought to be an interesting on the show for sure. And before we get there, though, tonight's business the open lines open mic three one nine five two seven five

zero one six. That's the number to call the O'Kelly effect, which is live if you're hearing me, about twelve minutes after eight pm Eastern in what we used to call America. So with that all being said, Bpete, how you doing tonight? Man? What's on your mind? What kind of plans you got? I mean, let's talk man. Oh, enjoying a rare day off of work. We are able to capitalize on the holiday yesterday and take the day off without having to burn any vacation, so we got

lucky there. And other than that, just doing some yard work and trying to beat the heat. I think our heat index is up about one oh seven today one eight. In fact, rally made the Drugs Report headlines with a record high of one hundred and six, No kidding, So it's been nice to see me here in the southeast. Yeah, definitely hot and humid heavy over here in Georgia for sure. But I don't know, it's just it's just wild man. It's it's gonna be a hot one this summer.

I'm sure. Hey, I got a weird question for you because you brought up holidays and you know that whole let's add on to the holiday and okay, since the holidays on a Friday, take the friday off, take the Thursday, or you know all that kind of stuff. I got a question, and it's weird because missus O brought this up to me the other day, and I couldn't remember when it happened, but I'm sure it happened.

There used to be a time when if you just worked on a holiday, and it was most nationally recognized holidays, most fair size companies, you know, small to fair size companies would tell you that, look, if you work on a holiday, we'll pay you a holiday wage. Now it might be time and a half or something, but they paid you a holiday wage. They started to back off that and now added all kinds of addendums. But I don't remember when this came into play, because it used to be

real simple. If you were working on the fourth of July, you got paid a holiday pay. If you were working on Christmas, you might have got double time because that was special, you know, but relatively generally accepted

holidays, you got paid extra for it. But this change, I'm not talking about the fact that a lot of people pulled back and tried to get cheap on it, but they got weirder where they started adding other requirements right where it's like, Okay, not only do we need you to work on the fourth of July, but you're gonna have to work the day after or the day before in order to collect your holiday pay on the fourth of July.

Now, like you said, you know, you took advantage of the fact that it was close to the end of the week, so you end up with the two days off. I mean, they did that too, but it seems to me at one point it was pretty simple and strict. You work on the holiday, you get paid holiday pay day after day before. It doesn't matter, you know, that's just any other day. Well down here in the South, it depends on whether you're working a union job

or not. Most union jobs they get all of the federal holidays and then if you have to work on a holiday, you get a holiday differential. If you work. I'll give you an example. When I worked at the shipyard up in Norfolk. That was all union positions. So if you worked, you worked your eight hours, you got straight pay. Anything over eight hours a day was time and a half. If you worked on a weekend, it was time and a half, and then after twelve hours it went

to double time. If you worked a holiday, it was double time. But down here, down South, most non union places, it all depends on the company and the industry. One example, Hickory is well known for its furniture manufacturing. For years and years and years, most of the furniture that you saw in most major stores, some part of it came out of

the Hickory area. So they were heavily into furniture production on all the associated businesses, the frame manufacturers, the spring manufacturers, the phone manufacturers, the fabric mills, and they would synchronize their systems. They took vacation twice a year. They took it the week of July fourth, and they took it the week of Christmas. That way nobody had to fight about scheduling time off. They would also do their maintenance during those two weeks that they were down.

Any major teardowns of machinery and stuff like that, they had a week to get it done, and that way everybody was in sync. You know, if you really wanted to catch somebody that you've been looking for for years and you knew they worked at a furniture plant, go to town one of those two weeks, you'd be able to find it. Okay, you know,

everybody was on holiday at the same time. Down in our area, I do a contract job, so the company on the people on contract with they go buy all of the regular state holidays, which may not necessarily be the federal holidays. State employees don't get too teeth. They don't get oh, what is the other one to get? Veteran's Day? They get the Columbus Day. That's a well, now they're calling it Indigenous People's Day in some areas. I was going to say that special holiday that they don't get.

It's a federal holiday, so the state doesn't recognize it. So it really all depends down south. You know, the old holiday differential and things like that were usually associated with union positions, trucking. Okay, things of that but here's the problem, right, there's only like five percent of old jobs or union jobs anyway. And a union job, okay, you got a collective contract, you got a collective bargain. I get it. So you know, skip that, because that's not the majority of people I'm talking

about in just the free floating around. You got a job, and you're under a general sort of agreement of employment. It seems to me is though the people out there, even though there's not supposed to be, you know, a collective agreement among employers, they came to a collective conclusion at some point and shifted this right where they resisted the holiday pay because, as per usual, if they can squeeze you and you don't squeal, ill squeeze harder.

But the thing is, I think there was a point at which this changed, and I don't remember when it happened, because there was a time when I was working and you could almost assume any job, right except the military, you know, and things like that. You know, the twenty four hour there's no way you get out of it. Jobs, right, you're always on duty sort of jobs. You're either on duty or not on

duty. That's it. It's not about vacation days. You know, you know what I'm saying, like, but those again, that's under contract, So skip the contracts. I mean the general sort of out there in society. What rules does almost everybody else got to live by. It's weird because it changed so years ago. You might have gotten more of it. Down South has never been one for just given blanket holidays. He worked at a fast fair or something like that. He was subject to work. And I

had a moved in high school. I had a job working in a movie theater. I worked every holiday. That was our big days. It was holidays. So Christmas is where you are. But but down South, down South, I don't know. You know, we used to have blue laws down here where you couldn't sell certain things on Sunday. I guess when they started getting rid of blue laws and places started staying open seven days a week. You know, I come from an area where a lot of things closed

at noon on Saturday and a lot of places weren't open on Sunday. No, I think that's a phenomenon. Be fighting for years. No, I get it, because like there was a town, yeah, but there was in Jersey. There was some other places where they emphasized the holiday thing, right, But there was a town in Jersey that were under that sort of

premise, Like you were talking about everything closes at noon on Saturday. No way in hell anything's open on Sunday at all, you know, because it was supposed to be for church, and the town was actually literally the land was all owned by the Methodist Church. Even if you bought a house there, you didn't own the land. You only owned the house. Okay, so whatever, But the thing is not under stuff like that. Clearly,

you worked in a movie theater. It used to be. I don't know today because movie theater business is different, but it used to be that Christmas was a huge day, a lot of people nothing else to do because everything else is closed. Christmas used to be huge for the movies. They scheduled releases for Christmas releases convenience stores. As you well know, I worked in that business. We didn't close our damn doors. Were you guys going to

be closed to the holiday? I used to get that question every year, and I used to laugh at it, like, No, We're the one kind of place that pretty much we don't even know where the lock to our key. You know, our door is you know, because we don't close. If we close, it's because you know, the powers out you know what I'm saying. If we close, it's because they've shut off the town

and missed and redirected traffic away from us. I mean, otherwise, the convenience store doesn't close, the gas pumps don't close, even in even exemptions right where they declare a state of emergency for a snowstorm and whatever. Never would I get ticketed for being on the road or somebody was driving me, I should say, because I didn't drive. But never would somebody get ticketed for driving when it was like, I'm bringing a gas station manager into a

gas station. Even the state police would go, oh okay, well that's what we call essential workers. You know, before COVID, there were essential workers. So I'd be considered an essential worker because I'm running a gas station in the middle of a blizzard. Right. So there are some places that don't close, and their rules are hard, and we don't care what your holiday is. As a matter of fact, we're one of the places you're

looking for when the holidays are on and everything else is closed. Now I know all that stuff changed, but again I'm not talking about that I'm talking about. There used to be kind of an assumption and when we had those twenty four hour businesses, like I always assumed and I was corrected about this, by the way, while I was working pres on mobile, my assumption was, you work on Christmas, I'm paying you Christmas pay one way or another. Either they got a bonus for working that day, or they got

time and half for working that day, or they got double time. And that's the way I handled Christmas. And then I had other people come to me about other religions, and I added a Muslim Christmas to my calendar because that's all I had. I didn't have to add Jews. I didn't have any Jewish employees, so you know, I adjusted to the employees and gave them that supreme holiday for their Christmas, so to speak. Right, And this was sort of a thing that was done with a lot of businesses.

But again, there was an assumption. You worked on holiday, you got paid more. Otherwise you would almost assume you were off, you know, and not just and government facilities are. It was like you said, there's government holidays. But again, when did this change though that they said this? You know, now you've got to qualifier, right, you got to

work the day after and before or whatever in order to qualify. Because I know some people would go, well, we'll just have Thanksgiving on Friday, you know, and stuff like that when they worked in a business where they couldn't get that holiday off, and people would constantly come to me about Thanksgiving, Well what about Thanksgiving? I need that off. I started the trade

off program. You want Thanksgiving off, then you're agreeing that I can schedule you for Christmas, you know, or if you want to work on Christmas, I'll try and give you New Year's Eve off. Now, a lot of younger employees like that, cause like I don't care about Christmas no more. I'm twenty one. I want to go get loaded on New Year's Eve. So I give them that day off. And why because well I give them the first off. I give them New Year's Day off because also productive

for me, no hangover employees showing up right. So you know, well, I tried to work with what I had, and it was expected that if you had to put out and be away from your family or be away from the generally accepted fun activity, you got paid more. So I know this like changed, and I just can't pick up on when it went from being in the employees sort of advantage to being more on the employer's sort of

advantage. As far as the way these things would break down, I mean, I was always considerate, but then again I got told things like I was too soft hearted of a boss, you know, which is why I would never succeed big in the business I was working in because I was too nice of a boss. You know, I was too considerate of my employees. I literally got I saw that written on a file one time, that I was overly considerate to employees' concerns. That was a criticism against me.

Whatever. I mean, I'm not wearing it like a proud badge. It just was. And I guess I don't. I don't deny it, disown it. I don't deny it. It is what it is. But it seemed to me that that was the way things used to be. And you know, it may have been up north, like to say, and I've never come across that down here in the South, and most of my working life I've been living down here. But for example, I worked for the state for a while with the Department Transportation. We always got good Friday off.

My ex wife worked for a private company. They always took Easter Monday off. So for us to plan anything over that weekend and go out of town, one of us had to take vacation for one day, where we just shortened it to three days, you know. And another thing here when you get paid holidays and that because of the federal regulations on overtime, it affects what you get paid. Like normally our week is ten hours a day,

five or six days a week, sometimes twelve hours a day. It just depends on which groups you've got into and what work on the job. You know, you may have a contractor that gets there and he works till dark, getting as much done as he can because it's gonna be well for he comes back well with us. You know, the federal rule is you have to work forty hours. Everything over that you work forty hours is time and a half overtime. Right. Well, when you throw in this holiday

holiday, time is not time that you work. That's holiday pay. So for this week, I work ten hours Monday, ten hours Tuesday, ten hours Wednesday. All right. That's got me at thirty hours eight hours on Thursday for the holiday. All right. So I've worked thirty eight hours, but I've only actually worked thirty I have to work ten hours on Friday to get the forty to where I get paid time and a half for those eight hours over the forty hours. You see what I'm saying. If I don't

work, I did not work that Friday, so thirty eight hours. If I work three hours on Friday, it gives me a total of forty one hours, but I don't get paid time and a half for that one hour over forty because I only actually physically worked thirty one hours thirty nine forty. It's just it depends on what work you're doing, where you're doing it at, and whether you're dealing with state or federal regulations. I had down South.

We've never never been one that really pushed the holiday pay thing where it was an extra setive. Now, some places like hospitals nursing staff, they've worked out in a lot of their contracts where if they work graveyard shift, they get a pay differential for every hour work. A lot of them will do the rotation thing on holidays. Well, last year you had Christmas, so this year you have to work Christmas. They work it out that way,

but just based on extra pay for holidays. That's really been missing down here for quite some time. Okay, all right, so I guess it does vary regionally a little bit. Standard, Yeah no, but the last thing is that you brought up something interesting. Here is the other part of it, the overnight differential too. That was something that again when I first learned, you know, my business side of things, that was a given.

You paid somebody a little more who had to work graveyard. There was always a little incentive to do the graveyard because one way or another it had special qualities to it. And you're now in a position of really sleeping during the day some point, so it kind of does have an impact on your life. So it was thought, you know, give them something. And again, if you've got to collective bargaining situation, it's one thing. But

on the other hand, there was this sort of given idea. Now, I know today, you're kind of in an unusual situation even today, because a lot of run of the mill jobs like unskilled labor or stuff that you can learn on the job where you don't have to have a specialty in schooling to go into immediately. You don't have even the guarantee. You know, the forty hour work week disappeared. Now a lot of people think that disappeared

because of Obamacare, but that's not true. Before Obama was in office, during W's era, there was a cascade effect where I saw and I saw it encouraged in corporate papers in a few different corporations where they was handed down from on high. Don't have full time employees. Run them at thirty hours, run them at twenty five hours. This is what they wanted us to do. This was more ideal. You should not keep that many full time employees. You know, if you have a staff of eight, the most

that should be there. You have a staff of eight, don't count your manager. There's your salary position. And you should have one assistant manager who is on a full time slate. Everybody else should be part timers of one type or another. And that was the competitive tier that they wanted things to be switched to, which was weird. Yes, the majority of jobs that

have been added in the past two years have been there. They've been part time jobs and people picking up second and third jobs just to get the extra hours to be able to make ends meet. That's the big thing now and but my line of work, Yeah, it's kind of exempt from that because we're in construction and construction works twenty four to seven until the job's done. You've got a contract where you've got to get this product out by a certain date. So you do what you do. You do what you have to

do to get it done. So you know, when you come to work for a company like mine, that's first thing they ask you. You know, are you in a situation where you can't work any more than forty hours? Yeah, well we don't need you. We need somebody that's willing to work the hours. I mean, I've put in as much as you know, seventy hours a week. It's just you do what you got to do to get the job done. Now, we would love to do it with part time people. It would really keep the costs down in what we have

to do to bid our jobs. You know, we bid our services to people that hire us to do certain things. In the engineering world, we have to be realistic about our charges and our prices and our overhead. But to get a contract, you know, you're competing with christ There must be thirty other engineering firms in this state that are competing for the same jobs that we are. Ye see, but again in your situation, it's different because

it's counterproduction. It would love to do it with part time people. The problem is we can't find the people to do it full time, let alone those are qualified to do it part time. Yeah, but it's short sighted. It's short sighted to use part timers to try and do what you're doing. You need people to stay on the job because if you have that constant rotation, that adds in and see, these are the factors that they forgot

about, you know when they started doing this. Is that now that's you know, five more shifts where you've got people that can show up late, call out, sick, et cetera. You know, you need the full time employees make more sense. Even if they cost a little bit upfront, they save money in the aggravation and then the shuffling and then the you losing

time on your job issues. So that's one thing. But on the other hand, the last part of this that I wanted to bring up to you and we got looks like we got Jimmy on the line and anybody else wants to join us. Three one nine five, two seven five zero one six three one nine five two seven five zero one six. But the other thing about this is not only did they encourage it across the board, it's not

the past two years. I'm talking about this being a repeated you know, like a mantra that went out through a lot of corporate structures in franchises.

I was very familiar with franchises at that point, but then there were other corporate structures like hospitals and stuff like that where they wanted certain staff to be treated this way as well, where they changed that, like the ones that weren't necessarily with the nurses union or whatever that you know, like your your what do they call them, the aids, the nurses' aids or the added

health aids or whatever that they called them. When they started really bleeding out and getting rid of the LPN position, the license practical nurse, they turned around and said, use rotate those people. And the formula was virtually the same for a convenience store as it was for nurses' aids. Because again, it's a I mean, practically, think about it. It's a twenty four

hour business. You have to have an employee that's staffed there and is active for those twenty four hours, So you know, let's just say you work on eight hour shifts and you begin at six am. You know, you got somebody working ten to six am, and the third shift, that person might get fifty cents or a dollar more an hour, but that's it. They would do the same thing. They said, you know what, if you create four shifts, it's a little more paperwork, but here's where you

save all your money, and then everybody's easily replaced in the rotation. So that was encouraged from if you were selling candy, or if you were propping up pillows, you know what I mean, or if you were running a

seven eleven, or gas pumps, you know, or sandwiches. It seemed like all the service especially got into this, you know what, break them down into very easily replaceable modules that are not fully integrated into the business, that don't draw you know, required pay raises, that don't draw required health

coverage or any of this stuff that we had by policy. Then Obamacare came along and they had that whole you know what, if you're if you're a full time employee, you're entitled to and boom, all of a sudden, anybody who was hanging on to the you know, let me try and get people forty hours. They magically started giving people thirty, so in case they had to keep people extra a couple hours here or there, they would never scratch the forty hour mark, right, and therefore never qualify for well,

your employer has to be partially responsible for your health care. So that happened though after W, before W was in there, I mean, geez, let me think here, Clinton is still in there. In ninety six, ninety seven, ninety eight, during Clinton's time, this started to happen all right. Now, you know, this is when money more twenty four hour businesses started up, and I think we went to a much more twenty four hour I mean, that's the first time I saw a twenty four hour Walmart,

and you know, clearly had cash available all the time. Banking started to be, you know, through machines a little more automated in the US, as opposed to I gotta wait for the bank to open to go cash a check. You know. So business changed a little bit and employment changed heavily. But I just can't mark when there was this sort of like we'll screw them when it comes to the holidays. I don't know. And again, like I said, some things are totally out of this conversation, like

military or whatever. But let's get to the calls and you know, maybe we'll continue this conversation or maybe Jimmy James will off for something else, and you guys listening, you can offer something completely different as they say, you know, latest TV show you want to talk about the fireworks yesterday, which, by the way, I posted a YouTube video of missus O lighting a giant bottle rocket last night, and you know, she stuck the stick in the ground too hard, beat Pete, so one of those you know,

multiple popping, spraying, freaking bottle rockets didn't launch, so it just kind of went pop on the ground there and blew up all over the front yard. And I got that YouTube video up there on the Charles o'celly channel. We don't have enough Chelli Effect channel anymore, but it's up there. And I was thinking of sharing a couple more videos of us lighting fireworks last night

because the whole neighborhood was firing guns and fireworks and it was hysterical. The one yard, a couple of streets, a couple of houses down was like, I don't know, semi automatic rifle, I guess being fired for some reason, along with bottle rockets and so on and so forth, and a couple of the Fanci or Bigger bad Boys that probably went on sale yesterday because some people were overstocked. And that's how we got ours overstocked cheap, quick

cut, cutthroat, get rid of it quick, last minute sale. Anyways, so we'll go to Jimmy James and see where the conversation takes us. What do you say, Bpete sounds good to be alrighty, So Jimmy, it's up to you. I mean, you can go with what we're talking about or go in another direction. It's all you brother. How you doing

I'm doing already. Yeah, let's listen to the taste. I can't say when it changed, apparently after I got the military, because I don't When I was a truck driver, I used to make triple time when I've worked on Halid Base. Yeah, I had a friend a fairly close well, I've had a couple of friends who were in the you know, trucking industry, you know the big rig stuff you talking about that kind of trucking or like interstate Yeah, I mean I drew a straight truck cause I had to

get a CBO. Okay, so you needed a commercial driver's license, you know. I'm pretty sure that's also what Harland does. We haven't heard from him in a while, but I think he's currently a trucker and so trucking.

I'm not sure if that's one of those industries that didn't become affected by all this, but clearly they wanted to pay some guys to make runs a little more money during holiday time because I mean, you know, if you take a run on the twenty fourth and you got to go from you know, Detroit to I don't know, let's pick a place, Palm Beach, Florida, you ain't making an home for Christmas, you know, so, I mean you know, then they used to pay your extra on that run.

Yeah, luckily I was state. I mean I allays was home. Say well sometimes not always. There's a few times I ended up staying elsewhere, but always tried to make it going. Okay, so you had more of a day job as a trucker, like not like staying away from home like half of the months and this kind of thing. Then right, oh yeah, yeah, no, I'd get up, I'd go in at like six in the morning and if anything's going right, I should be back three

four in the afternoon. Yes, for summers, which was our big time, in which case it was just misery. I might not be done to three in the morning and I have to go back in at six in the morning. Did you happen to deliver food where you were like a food delivery guy or do something else? That tobacco, That tobacco candy was our big

things. Okay, so yeah, okay, I get it. So you kind of had a day job with that where you know, you could be expected to get home, but sometimes it ran over and you had I get it. Okay, So I'm getting a picture here. But when you would work a holiday, I mean, you got to admit it's different if, like I say to you, look, Jimmy, you got to make this run to California and they would pay you, you know, by the mile, right, A lot of those kind of jobs you're you're aware of those

kind of jobs right where it's like you get so much per mile. And okay, so you got an eight hundred dollars run, right. Oh they tried, you know what they tried. They were trying to guess to go to salary to its just said no, no, no, I'm good, I'm good. Yeah. Oh but look how much you better make how much? Look how much better you'd make out my wanner as it? Oh I know, but look how much I would lose in the summer. Yeah.

Well see, And that's the crazy thing, like I had. I was friendly with a couple of people, and and people never believe me when I say this. You guys might not believe me either. But you know, the company that makes uh all together, that sort of came together making stuff like Twinkies and ring dings and wonderbread like wonderbread, drapes and hostess, right, was all under one thing called US Bakeries. And so they had their

own delivery drivers. And you might have seen them around town anywhere you are, you know, with the twinkie the kid on the side of their truck or wonder giant Wonderbread picture or whatever. And those guys would only deliver that product and they would service stores. Well, it's funny because to me when they went ended up going out of business shortly after and they were bankrupt,

completely gone. Somebody revived them a little while later after they sold their recipes, which is why today you see the Tasty Cake has their version of like what used to look like a Hostess cupcake and stuff like that. They wound up selling off a lot of their stuff in bankruptcy because they couldn't keep it together. It seems to me as though the drivers made certain demands, and

like I heard what they were getting paid. I thought they were getting paid really really well to you know, to deliver twinkies and bread pretty much, and they were complaining about it. And it seemed to me as though the struggle with their drivers started a cascade effect that literally destroyed the company. I mean, I know they're back out there nowadays, but that was after a

serious reorganization and stuff. And it seems to me that problem all started with the transportation issue that combined with the fact that fuel prices skyrocketed at a certain point, crushed them. But when I point that out to people, they're like, nah, it was just bad business and blah blah blah. But how the hell are you going to tell me that Twinkies, ring Ding's Wonderbread all went out of business in America? You know, because what you know,

it's not like people didn't want those products. It's not like they weren't selling. Their sales didn't really dip except in places where they had transportation issues. I think so only the transportation issue destroyed US bakeries. But I don't know what you guys think about that. But I've had somebody tell me that I'm out of my mind, that it was all about mismanagement, And in fact, they told me it was because of liberal management back then, some

kind of political crap. But I don't recall, you know, Twinkie the kid out there pushing for abortion or anything. I must have missed it. But anyways, well, years ago though, they were bought out by one company that threw them under the umbrella of all their other diversified companies. And then somehow in the breakup of that company, they started going downhill making money because of the best difference between outlay and income. Right. But yeah,

I mean, but you know, I think you can run up. Yeah, but they run a business in the ground by putting it with another business, and the other business is the woe of the problems. But it takes down the whole of the whole structure. No, I get it, But that explanation doesn't satisfy me. For this reason, what they did is they

consolidate. Okay, Wonderbread was you used to just be a Wonderbread, you know, a factory driver, all that, right, And then you had literally a hostess guy who would go around with the twinkies, the fruit pies, the cupcakes, and they had all these separated things. They acquired Drakes.

Okay, Drake's Cakes was a separate issue. They acquired Drake's Cakes, and then they started trying to figure out how to get rid of the duplicate products, you know, like why am I going to put the same thing next to you know, like if Drakes has a cupcake that's really similar to the Hostess cupcake, get rid of it. Drakes has a Yankee doodle Okay, they used to give you three in the package. That was the big

drawl with Yankee doodles to me. They were both cream filled. But anyways, the cupcakes, okay, so maybe we get rid of one of the cupcakes. They both make little donuts, which one sells better, will keep

the Drake's donuts theoretically, you know, stuff like that. But they combined three successful brands, and it seemed to me as though transportation and now became easier because they consolidated the trucks to where every truck that carried wonderbread now, you know, And actually some people lost jobs there because they it became redundant. Right now, three delivery drivers go into one store. You don't need them all, so you know, one guy carries three kinds of stuff,

no problem. They made a few more runs, they had a few more drivers. They bounced it out. Maybe they lost part of their workforce, but they survived that part. When the gas price started jumping and there was this dispute with their you know, now consolidated fleet of delivery people, that's when all of a sudden that US Bakery's umbrella you're talking about, like crashed. And I could never understand it because it was like you're telling me that

you put a bunch's. That's almost like saying, look, i'm gonna take Burger King, McDonald's and uh Taco Bell, okay, and I'm gonna combine those companies. And now that's just these three things. So that means that if I got delivery trucks, maybe my McDonald's delivery truck goes to and it seems like I actually saved money. Now three successful brands, and if we don't affect the flow of anything. We should be all good and in fact

cut the overhead. But the overhead issue literally started the snowball that blew it all up, Which was strange to me because who doesn't recognize wonderbread, Drakes and you know, hostess as like staple things in America pretty much in the seventies, eighties, and nineties, but they crashed. I don't know, it's to me, it's weird, Jimmy, what are your thoughts about it?

Yeah, Twinkies, Nah, that had to have been some kind of weird bad management, bad everything, because those things sell off the shelves. I mean, you'd think if I'm telling you, look, you gotta let's bet money on which, by the way, we got some bets coming up, Jimmy. And there may be something we got to talk about regarding sentencing, not today, but keeping in mind that's coming up soon. But to me, it seems like I'm going to give you three successful businesses, put

them together and just don't f it up. You know, like, how do you screw that up? I mean, I guess you know, how do you look? Would It's it's completely understandable considering I mean, if you look at the old Interstate Bakeries, which was the company before Hostess went out on its own. They had Wonder Bread, Nature's Pride, Dolly Madison,

Butternup Breads, and Drape brands. So up until twenty twelve when they had to close and liquidate because of bankruptcy, you know, they were carrying what one, two, three, four, five, six, seven major brands, and yeah, there was a lot of overlap. They bought Marita Bakeries, which was Marita is a huge baker in the Southeast. So in purchasing these things and acquiring the debt of these other companies over time, Yeah, eventually they had to file bankruptcy. On what you saw come out of it

was three or four mergers and changes and everything else. In the past six years, they've changed hands like four different times since they came back out as Hostess brands. Yeah, that's hard. Yeah, as you to understand the company it's been around ninety four years. Eventually having to close the doors just because the accumulated debt of all those brands and the competition between areas, you know, it's not business became very expensive for businesses here the last thirty years,

and you're seeing loops like that falling out. But it just seems unusual to me that when you have something that's durable, that has good cash flow. I mean, for God's sakes, Netflix stay afloat for like a decade, losing millions of dollars every year and didn't have to close their doors, you know what I mean. It's weird. Well, that's because the people, but the people that were back and it had the ability to absorb those

losses. The families that were involved with Interstate Bakeries, it just couldn't handle it. They couldn't float it for that long before they could get rid of the things that were dragging them down. And I'm trying to remember the order, because it was Interstate Bakeries. Then there was some like fly by night thing that was in between, and then it was US Bakeries. And so there's Interstate US and those are the big consolidation groups. And never yeah,

I've never seen US Bakeries named in there in their line of history. Yeah, it was always Interstate Bakeries and interstate brands. Yeah. I signed a contract with US Bakeries, so I know it was a US Bakeries was literally the name. And I was like I made a joke to the guy at

the time, I'm like, that's real original. You know I was making I was making jokes back then because it seemed to me like every Pakistani or Korean guy that started a business always had to go out and like, you know, call it something that they thought sounded American, and you knew like the level of English the guy was gonna speak to you when you dealt with

him, based on what he called his company. You know, when it was called you know, Big Happy Cowboy dry Cleaner, you know, it was like, yeah, dude, that makes no sense, but you threw together some English words, so you knew you were going to get a guy speaking broken English to you. But when you saw something that was like, you know, a complete sentence or a brand that sounded like, you know, it was kind of catchy or whatever, you knew you were going to

deal with somebody who was a little more sophisticated linguistically. But I remember looking at that going US Bakery. How original. You know, everybody's calling something America because it's all patriotism time. This is that hyper patriotism post nine to eleven, So everybody started calling themselves American or US or United States or you know what I mean, and it was mixed into the names. So I remember US Bakery specifically as being one of the consolated nation elements, but I

cannot recall the order these things went in. Probably we could research it and figure it out, but to me, I don't know. It's strange when you see something that's making money quite well, it's like you got a high positive cash flow, you should be able to figure out how to you know, keep it running. I know, things got more expensive and regulations and people would say, oh and then they added stuff to your payroll problems and

yeah. But even so, other things survived that don't seem to be as you know, popular or well known as as flexible and durable with the public when it comes to sales. You know, here we go. That was in twenty thirteen states the United States Bakery won the auction for four Northwestern or Hostess bakeries. Yeah. See there's a twenty thirteen for thirty point eight five

million. Now that's how the clue was approved. The brands were Eddie's Grandma, Grandma and Meals, Stendis Farms, and Sweethete of Sweetheart Bakeries, which Hostess owned, but auction them off as part of their liquidation. Right so, as of December twenty fifteen, the rights to the Baker's Inn and Dutch

Hearth brands remain unsold. So one, two, three, four, Yeah, US Bakeries bought four of Hostess's bakeries in twenty thirteen, right now, some of that same more out of the out of the myriad that they had

across the US right now. A couple of years previous to that, there was a whole bunch of mess going on because they sold off a bunch of recipes and all of a sudden, like I said, Tasty Cake, you know the typical Hostess cupcake which has the white squiggle on it on the top of it, All of a sudden, Tasty Cake had the same formula and they were putting out their version of it because they bought the recipe as part of the liquidation. It was funny because it was like those brands were meant

to disappear, but then they re emerged through this reorganization. So Tasty Cake bought it and somebody else ended up with a similar issue, and it was like, no, there's no trademark issue or anything else, because they literally hell Flower Foods bought Flower Foods bought six of Hostess's brands of bread. They're including Wonderbreads or twenty thirteen. Wonder Bread left Interstate Bakeries, which became Hostess brands and went to Flower Foods. I see, there you go. They

also make the butternut Let's see. The deal went through a bankruptcy court at March was completed into July of twenty thirteen to five brands Butternut Bread, Home Pride, Marina Bread's, Nature's Pide, and Wonderbread all went to Flowers Bakeries or Flowers Foods. All right, So in the interest of moving things along, though, Jimmy, I'm gonna put you on hold. I got another caller, but I want to come back to you probably when we get a

topic that's more to your liking. Okay, what do you think? Meanwhile, think about it on your own, because I think you're you got something on your mind and I didn't really fairly let you get to it. But I also don't want to keep people waiting too long because then they tend to hang up. So let's see, we got a nine to one six area code looks like I think I got you live, and uh, what's up by good evening? Check it's standing out here in California. I just woke

up and started hearing the conversation about the closest bakeries in Danny. Sorry, I was just saying, Danny and Kelly, it's great to hear from you, and I'm sure you got something to say about this. I wasn't trying

to push it as a topic. It's just that we started talking about jobs and how employment has changed, and then we got into trucking, and it just reminded me that it seemed to me the big implosion of you know, whatever the group was going to be called, during the shuffling of Hostess and Wonderbread and Drake's and all that and all these other minor brands that I can't

even remember. It all happened at this weird time where transportation and problems with their fleet came up, and it seemed like it undid the whole company. But these guys are telling me, like everybody tells me now, it was mismanagement. It looks like it's some kind of mismanagement. But I don't know. I think it's one of those things that's symptomatic of what goes wrong though,

because again it's a very popular, recognizable thing. I mean, find somebody in America who's been here for more than I don't know a year who hasn't sampled probably the majority of the products we're talking about. They are the prominent products. They're given special treatment and grocery stores and everything. And to me, it's like, how do you lose money? I mean, I know, I still haven't solved the mystery of how you lose money on three

casinos in Atlantic City, but this is even weirder to me. So anyway, sorry, Danny, go ahead. No no, no, no, you filled me in a little bit. Like I said, I didn't hear the beginning of the conversation. I had another topic. But I do have some insight on this particular topic. I'm pretty sure that all those mergers is it was private equity companies. And how they work is they have there they basically frontload a lot of the debt and they're taking fees and stock options and

they just squeeze everything out of it. And I have a lot of experience in the food delivery businesses, have been in Fall since November nineteen eighty six, and the particular company I work for is a privately held company. It's a hold these companies. It's international and five continents, and they basically have a whole different business concept there. They don't want to be bought out. I have no clue of their profitability because they don't have to open their book

because they're not open. But they basically had a buyers committee where it is the particular brand, the company I work for, and the franchises, and they get together and they are very well coordinated there. What their outlay of their profits are going to be their service. It's a whole different concept of how to actually run the business. For a lot of these private equipons, it is a whole difference has to be how they finance it, and that's

how they mismanagement. When you're looking at such a popular brand that doesn't make any sense. I hope what I ad and makes some sense. No,

I got you. So what you're telling me is I should be searching in the area of the corporate raiders who come through and usually try to go, well, gee, if we manage this a little differently, I can spend less money, We cut down on costs, and in a lot of cases, what they do is they design incentives for saying themselves and turn around and wind up bleeding money out instead of investing the money back in the business because of the fact is they're looking to, you know, to skim legally,

and if they skim. Look at the whole Seers debacle when Kmart bought them. You know, Kmart for years was was floundering, right and they were trying to find a buyer to take them over. Their problem was they built too many megastores in such a short time. They put themselves out of business basically, I mean, their debtload was outrageous. So what do they do. They go and buy Sears and in the process of buying Sears now connected

with Walmart, and Walmart is spiraling the bowl. It took Sears down with them to where right before they closed the doors, they're selling off Craftsmen, Ken Moore, all of their brand names. I think Stanley eventually ended up buying Craftsmen. In the tool which was bought by somebody else. It's probably made by behind food Style, you know, they're probably in the tool business. And who was these guys operated? It was by the by the company.

See what assets we can sell to make our salves big bonuses and then we'll just fold the doors one way and go find another business to buy. I got you was Whirlpool, the one that made Maybe I'm mixing it up. Whirlpool was separate, maybe, but there was like another brand that also made their like washers and dryers and oh well, at one time. At

one time ken More brands were ken More. After a while you had them, you had some companies making like hot Point, uh, hot Point, I forget the other one anyway, Sunbeam or somebody that's in the appliance business they started making them. But yeah, Craftsman was made by other companies, but the Craftsmen logo was put on it. They were certain requirements for us and such. Yeah, that's crafts and that's the tool. And that pissed

a lot of people off. But I'm talking about that like washing machines or air conditioners. There was some company logo that like basically just assuming pull and hot Point are made well, and that's something else. Whirlpool and hot Point, yeah, some of their factories were cranking out Craftsmen stuff. But there's also products made for Whirlpool and hot Point that are made by other companies.

They just put the you know, it's like it's like riding lawnmowers. And in the United States there's like three manufacturers of most of the riding lawnmowers that you see in Lows and Ace Hardware and anywhere that you can go buy lawnmower chances are made by three companies. White was a huge manufacturer of lawnbowing equipment, and they just put whoever was sponsoring that run, whether it was Toro or a Snapper or craftsmen, their logo went on it, with their colors

and their decals. I mean, it's basically the same thing you can go buy a toy build about twenty years ago. It has made it the same place that most of your cub Cadet and other places putting out mowers car all came out of the same factory, just different color, different details, right, And you see that a lot in the impliance business, right, Just like in nineteen eighty, you know, Sears came out with their Atari twenty

six hundred, which didn't say Atari on it. It literally had a Sears logo on it, and I think you know people went, oh, okay, kids aren't gonna like this. It didn't last too long, but believe it or not. You know, you remember the old twenty six hundred Ataris. Those things were out there and had a Sears logo on them, but everything else about the machine was virtually exactly the same. So it's like the

atario that's been going on in the car business for fucking decades. I mean, I bought one of the last Suzuki Samurai sold in the state of North Carolina because they quit importing them. Or once you pop the hood, everything on that car was Mitsubisi. Everything on that car was Mitsubisi except for the Suzuki Samurai decals stuck on the body. Yeah, so you know, you

look at the deal. You know, look at the old Plymouth I had a Smith laser was the exact same things, a Mitsubisy eclipse right going on in the car manufacturing for years. Well, it's it's in everything now. You know, you might buy it, it might be made here, but it might have that sticker on it. Yeah. Well it was weird because the Sears. It's funny about the Seares twenty six hundred because I remember this

happening. At first it came out and it was like a very little bit cheaper, you know, what I mean, then the Atari you could buy in another store. So again around Christmas time they had a good run on them. But then I don't know, something went wrong, and like I said, I think the kids went ah. But it says Sears on it, and like all of a sudden, the Sears Ataris had to be sold at a different you know, at a different costs. Hey, is that old frank zappeline from years ago? Is that a real poncho? Or is

that a Sears poncho? There you go, so, but it's weird because it's literally the same damn thing. I mean, if you took a part that Atari, it was exactly the same. It had one cheaper piece of equipment on it. I remember, it was like one thing was different about the switch. And quite frankly, people didn't learn this. Still a couple

of years later the switches would wear out. Otherwise, there are Atari twenty six hundreds that have been working since they were sold forty years ago, forty five years ago, okay, and fifty years ago at this point, I guess, huh, So fifty year old atari's all right, are still working in some place. The only thing that burned out is the little power converter,

the uh you know, the adapter cable, the electric source. Those things burned out because they probably were, yeah, probably worth quite a bit more than what it was sold. Well, it goes through trends. There were trends where it was expensive, and then there were trends where it was no good. Matter of fact, the funny thing about that is the ET cartridge remember the ET movie, right, Atari made like millions of these damn ET you cartridges to sell to people, and people got ahold of the game.

They were super excited about it. It's sold pretty good for a couple of weeks, and then absolutely died because the game sucked. It was horrible, and they literally took a bunch of them outside of the factory. This is it was an urban legend thing for a while, and people said, now it's just urban legend, and then somebody actually found them. They took and bulldozed them into a pit because they just said, we can't even give

these away. It was so bad. Now, the funny back end of that story is nowadays, try and buy an ET the Extraterrestrial game for Atari twenty six hundred, the original cartridge in a package. It is expensive, it's more expensive than almost any other game except maybe that seven up Spot game

that made for Nintendo. I think it's totally bizarre. But the funny thing is you can still get a working twenty six hundred with almost all of its original parts to day, you know, And it's just hilarious how durable these things were. And I mean I knew every kid that you know had one. Eventually they get one and soda had been spilled in it and everything else, and the damn thing would be sticky, but it still worked. It was crazy. Anyways, Danny's sorry, then that's in my line of work.

Just on old calculators. You could take an old Hulett Packer forty one, a programmable calculator. Those things are like gold right now because there were so many programs written for them back in the time when surveyors and engineers used them. Because he didn't, you know, the software to go on a desktop computer was so expensive. These were handheld things you could take out in the field. I'd give almost my left arm for about four or five Shula

Packer forty one right now were so versatile. But yet you know, they got phased out because of graphic calculators that people needed for science classes and things like that. Of our first computer in the survey and industry, the guy I worked for, and this is back in the early eighties, he was using a Wang computer that used an IBM Selectric typewriter as its printer. You know, that was the things that we were using back when technology was first

getting geared up in this stuff. When you look at this stuff now, well, handheld computers the size of your phone that you can go out there and do everything that we did thirty years ago in you know, split seconds of time compared to what it took to process data when we were doing large surveys. So you know, technology is catching up with it. But try to go back and find one of those old items and see what you're going

to pay for. You probably pay double what it originally cost for an HP forty one now, just because the rarity of the things in a lot of cases. Yeah, So, Danny, anything else on your mind. I know, we say tracked there pretty bad, but you said you had another topic in mind. And plus I don't even think you were finished with your discussion about the food delivery deal. Yeah no, I think you pretty much much covered about you know, the name brands. I remember, yeah,

I had a Yeah, I'm gonna get sidetracked to the topic. But we bought I bought re botteled our kitchen. This is I think two thousand and three. So I got all maytaging all the commercials and they're they're, you know, because their reputation. And then I swear when every warranty wore out, everything in that kitchen broke and I inquired about it and found out that this day were sold out to a different company and they just they were just

running on the brand and we're starting to build crap. That's why you don't see Maytag out there anymore. But the subject going to change to is I watched a documentary on Hulu was the called The Perfect Wife, and it was this Sherry Perini kidnapping that happened here in in California. But it was a

really strange story and they saw it. But the thing that really caught my attention is what they revealed with the FBI investigators and just at the lengths and and and and just how thoroughly were these people really knew how to investigate.

I was very impressed with them. And then it started making me wonder, well if you're so good at this and your detail intention on this kidnapping in case, I was thinking about, like, you know, when I read the nine to eleven report, you know, how how come they couldn't track down the you know, the finan finally starting to reveal some of the financing of the hijackers, and and you know, you start thinking about like the you know, the Epstein raids, that what they waited then they had volunte

of It's just like, what are they sitting on and and how come there's no answers or reveals. I'm It's just it just baffles me. Why I do think they're silent and they can not so much of their hands of investigation. No, it's a I saw the preview for that or the trailer for that. I wasn't sure if I was going to be into it. You say, and it's a good series. Oh it's wild. I just like it couldn't get crazier. I was. It was wild. Well, I'll

warn you about one thing. Yeah, I'll warn you about one thing though, is that I took notice of this and I told somebody this last week that was asking me a question about one of these documentaries. Have you seen this Wow, it's amazing this and that. I said, you know, you gotta be careful when you're watching, uh, some of these series about investigators, and for one reason only, you know, a good editor all of a sudden makes an investigator look real good depending on the editor's skill level,

you know what I'm saying. Okay, Well that that it there. It was just kind of baffling my mind. How you know what they're what they were presenting, and I'm like, well, what about these other pass my curiosity? No, I got you. Maybe it's a good one and maybe there is an impressive investigator, but you know, like somebody got really remember John List when they were looking for John List from Jersey. The guy killed his whole family, put him in the basement, and you know,

moved away and started a new life that guy. Yeah. Yeah, it was you know, big national story. America's Most Wanted I think, I mean, I think more than one crime show, but America's Most Wanted made banner headlines with it because they turned around and did this forensic thing where they

had to age him up twenty years and all that. You know, so it's like a sketch artist, but they do it with a clay Head, right, and they aged him up, and then they tracked him down and he's got a whole other life, started a new family, you know, went back and got another job at the church, kind of like Dennis Raider even you know, BTK Killer gets another job at the church, right and

does the whole thing. And meanwhile, the guy who you know, basically was doing the job of a sketch artist and a forensic anthropologist who decides, okay, this is what somebody would look like if they aged, if they typically have a receding hairline. You know, they got glasses, blah blah blah, and they pretty much hit it right on the nose. This, you know, bust they created for the guy that they showed on America's Most

Wanted. And so you know, somebody was saying, oh, I'm so impressed with this, and I'm like, well, yeah, but what part are you impressed with? You know, the sketch artist communication kind of thing, or the literal hands on artist who was able to recreate something accurately. Because here's the thing, if you're just a talented artist, it's got nothing to do with forensics. You could take a description of anything and recreate it. Because you have that sort of talent. So, you know, a

talented artist, it's got nothing to do with criminology or anthropology. That's just a talented artist combined with somebody making those calculations and describing it right. So it's a combination effort. It's not really the one guy who's so impressive. It's actually got to be a team effort because there's no way that somebody who is an anthropologist that I mean, I've never seen anybody with you know, super high level skills where you're going to get one guy who can do this.

Like if you ever notice the guys who even when they're trying to recreate crimes or even the Kennedy assassination stuff you've seen over the years, be Pete right, there's always a guy who's, like I gathered all this information, there's always somebody else who figures out a way to render it, whether it's on a computer or whatever. You know, even Dale Myers, I mean, you know there's your best example, the guy with the animation of the

Kennedys. That's what you get when somebody tries to cross too many disciplines and tries to master you know, what is the idea of your jack of all trades. You're a master of none, you know, so sometimes you need two specialists to get together to create something truly special. But what was the name of that documentary? Again? It was called The Perfect Wife and they brought on about I think it was at least four FBI agents that seemed to

put pieces together that just kind of blew the story, you know. But yeah, it was called The Perfect Wife. It was three parts. I ended up binging it, I think Sunday night, and I couldn't stop watching. I mean, it was well done, and yeah, I know the part it's all these trickery and you know, editing, but you know, it just like just his kind of like every time I'm hearing a story, why don't they got more information on this? You know? You know,

you know, I look at it. How many people were hurt and harmed and you know, this was a kidnapping, and they pretty much it took him a while. It took him a couple of years to kind of piece everything together, but it was a while. It was a wild ride, right, Hey, I'm just realizing that things are getting a little bit late, so I do want to take a break. But before we do.

I'm gonna put you on all Danny. You're free to hang around, and obviously, whether anybody else joins us or not, you're free to jump back in if you got something else you want to add, or somebody else adds on to you, that's all fine and andy. But I got something else for us to consider right before we go to a break. And you know, I wasn't aware that we had a black female president. I was not aware of that, be Pete, but you showed me something and gave me

this rather unique thing. And I am now re educated. I was not aware that America had a black female president. I remember as a Catholic up in an area where we didn't like Cathington. Get I'm a first president elected state wide in the state of Delaware. As a kid, well, you know I was. I looked at John Kenny and said, well, he

God, he got elected. Why can't I get elected? By the way, I'm proud to be, as I said, first vice president, black woman with a black present all, the first black woman in the Supreme Court. There's just so much that we can do because together week there's nothing but the United States America. Okay, you know, fair play is fair game, and I gotta tell you reading that just like I to point out, you know, we're trying to read a Trump transcript. Sometimes that makes a

lot less sense than a Trump transcript. Even so, you know, I mean, I know we're definitely starting to pummel the dead horse here, but I don't know. Sometimes you got to tender rize the meat before you get people to swallow it finally and figure it out. But anyway, we'll figure out some more things on the other side of the break. My cos b Pete is with me and you can join us as well. The Ocelli effect has open lines here on this Friday night, and it is available to you

via the phone. You know what the number is. Have you been listening long enough? Let me give it to you. Three one nine five two seven five zero one six. The O'Kelly effect will return after this revelation through conversation. Do you like history, real history that you were never taught in schools? Why the Vietnam War, Nuclear Bombs and nation Building in Southeast Asia by author Mike Swanson, with new documentation never seen before that'll open your eyes

to events that led up to this. Why the Vietnam War nuclear bombs and nation building in Southeast Asia nineteen forty five through nineteen sixty one. Get your copy today at Amazon dot com. Why the Vietnam War by author Mike Swanson. Have you've expressed my callers, gools there anyone else who happens again on the air Kelly dot com? You not necessarily reflect reviews of Kelly dot com or Chuck O'Kelly, and we are not responsible. We're getting stupidity, which

my thank you. This is James Corbin at Corper Report dot com. And you're listening to the olly affected Olly dot com. Let them know, let them know, let her know. You got to let them know. I'm all shock, luck and care rocks from the lad at the drug show. I'm bringing all shot, I can care rocks from the light at the draft shows. The more we just met with the world's worst professional propocket tour, hit them like it's two thousands something and bucks back on tour. Never really

wanted me anyway. Alcohol turns me into the enemies. I'm go sending me Sam with some highnessy. Can you just expressed my callers school? Who's there anyone else who happens to get on the air of jelly dot com. Do not necessarily replying dews dot com or Chumko Kelly, and we are not responsible for any stupidity which you might have sue. Thank you. Go ahead call it about the JAFA assassination. Right, Well, what do you want to

know? Dy Baker's wild claim Oswald girlfriends he knew, Ruby and Barry answer weapons. Really, I imagine I could claim I have four wheels. It doesn't make me a wagon, but okay, I'm building and trying to prevent the murder of John Kennedy. Come on now has a real effort on the day of assassination. Book into claims. Go to Amazon dot com enter Judith Baker in her own words. You'll get the results for a digital copy of a book where Walt Brown utilizes her own words and the known evidence in the

case to get at well a different perspective. Let's say you can get Judith Barry Baker in her own words from the author himself, signed if you request it by contacting doctor Brown at k I as jfk at aol dot com. It's a fun book and it actually dissects the many, many fantastic claims Judith Ary Baker in her own words, Thank you a great information. I was commine it from my grandma. I got strangys. I have checked to go to college, but I so the dobe. Goodbye them stuff that single weed.

I be doing well. You will be that shift within your time as a double Well, more and more people flooted down. Well, we got diy for man stand it's getting no doun well one on the flies now because no one ever died from smoking We he did him. You're kidding me. You're kidding me, Yeah, yeah, you're kidding me. Well, and then found out it wouldn't ur job. They had to find another way to trick. That's the best thing that could come up. Awa, it's again

anyway drug and leads to other substances. You're kidding me. Your kidding me? Yeah, yeah, you're kidding me. Well, more round, more people putting down, But we got that be for mattes sid it's getting around. Well what I flum now might be because no one ever died from smoking weed. Your hair are your kiddening me? Are your kidding me? Yeah? Yeah, you're kidding me. Real small considered a majority athority to be had f people like you and me. You're kidding me? Are your kidding

me? Yeah? Yeah, yeah, Are your kidding me? Well, more more people footed down, But we got that prefer bat the sand. It's getting around water of ladming now, not pap because no one ever died from smoking. Well, you're kidding. The War State by Michael Swanson explains the great national transformation that took place and put the Kennedy presidency in the context of the Times and reveals never before published information about the Cuban missile crisis.

President Kennedy would not have been assassinated if he had been president two hundred years ago. His assassination took place in the context of the Cold War and the rise of the national security state. Before World War II, the United States was a continental republic. In the decade that followed, it became an imperial superpower. Generals such as Curtis LeMay not only wanted to invade Cuba, but knew that there were short range missiles on the island armed with nuclear warheads that

they could not destroy because they were on mobile launchers. Their invasion could have led to a Third World War, and they wanted to go to war anyway. The War State by Michael Swan Watson reveals why, and we'll show you what President Kennedy was up against. For more information the War State dot com. This is James Corbin at Corpa Report dot com and you're listening to the Olly Affected o'helly dot com episode. Yet we're Honey o Chilly dot com.

Second and what might be the final segment of the open mic Friday Night, And we have two callers on the line that we're gonna get back round to. But you could be there too. Three one nine five two seven five zero one six. That's three one nine five two seven five zero one six, Or reach out to me Charles dot O'Kelly on Skype and I will call

you into the show. So with that, B Pete, my co host, my friend, I think we should get a response to that clip I played just before break from our resident good friend there and primary caller at all times, an executive producer of tonight's show. Just coincidentally, Jimmy James,

What do you say, B Pete? Oh? Yeah, I'm curious to see what he has to say about surviving and VINDI that he is the first black Yeah, you know, I want to lean back and take a listen to him you know, respond and the two of them are discussed, because this is brand new facts to me. Jimmy, there are yes, he might he might identify that way mm, but we have to respect how he

identify, don't we at all times? Okay? Hey, just check if you live, whether you're five years old or ninety five years old or retree or you forgot what age you are exemptions also for those who forgot how old they are. Right, you got that right, okay, just hey, I'm asking the experts here, So Jimmy, what's your response? Though? You know, I've known this guy has been in stage well dently. He's moved up a notch. I've known this guy's had dementia. Everyone knew he

had dementia. They had to have known. The Democrat Party was working once again, conspiring against the people of the United States with their best bodies, the corporate media towness old Scranton Joe who spent three years there of his life. Probably, Oh, he doesn't have old timers. He's doing just fine and dandy. I told just stuff four years to go. Now he's just moved up a not so he's staged six dimension. I was barking at the

moon the whole time it's been Obama's third term. That's the part I can't figure out Obama's third term. You know, I don't know about you, but I'm getting pounded with the Hey, just give old Joe there five bucks. If everybody watching this video gives us five bucks, it'll save democracy. I mean, have you seen that video yet, Jimmy, No I I I mostly just listen to podcasts, and I usually just could work commercials and

just skip through them. Well, crap, I matter position. I listened to a lot of YouTube, is what it is, you know, while I'm doing other work. I listened to a lot of YouTube. But uh, b bete by all means take over here, I mean, what what what is there to be said about this situation and him identifying this way, well, I mean he can identify however he wants, you know, but if we if we make the claim that he's a seniled old man, you know, we get we get told off that oh you know, we're we're

making that's all conspiracy. You know, he's on sharp as he's ever been sharp as attack. You know, he's capable of the fact Fauci came out what yesterday or today and said that, Oh yeah, Josie, he's he's good. He's good for another four years. You're like, well, okay, here's you know, mister science is telling us that everything's a okay. Tell me, you know how many times do we have to be gas lift before we start reacting to the gas That's been the problem. They've been gas

likeness the whole time. Bob Woodward of Great, you know all the president's men saying he comes out. Oh yeah, everybody knew it. You know, media knew it, all the higher ups and the political parties and offices knew it. The government knew it. Everybody working in Washington, DC knew it. So what's the big deal. It's kind of like when did fauci all the Hollywood It's like all the Hollywood stars that came out when Weinstein got nailed for all his stuff, and oh, well, you know, we've

known this all along. Well, then why are you acting so surprised? Now? Here's you notice the people that have known all along are not surprised. They're just surprised that it took a debate performance for the rest of the world to see it. Question now that can't deny it? Quick question for you Fauci. When did he change his tune because his initial thing with and god knows why they approached him. You know, Sanjay Gupka's out there now

making statements to another guy I don't need to hear from. But but but if Fauci's out there making a statement. His first statement was, well, I can't adequately diagnose somebody, you know, through a video. And it's true. Okay, that is an honest statement. You can't make a diagnosis. You can make a damn good guess, and you can make a damn good assessment, but a practical clinical diagnosis, No, you can't do it from that video performance. Okay, it's no good. It indicates to you

there's a bar. Fauci said, no doubt Biden has the vigor and mental capability to have a second term on this, you know. Okay, Well, what's not mister science saying it? We've got to it, says doctor. Fauci says it's unfair to judge Joe biden health based on a ninety minute debate. Says Biden's may have just had a reaction to his cold medication. Of course, now court to the White House, he was taking no cold medication. So it wasn't that what you would do? This biomatication. They

mean this giant back of cocaine. No, I wish he was on coke. If he was on cokey'd be alert. Look, the problem here is not even I love this. It's almost like the old Hollywood excuse of food poisoning when somebody's clearly drunk. You know, it's like, dude, that guy's lit. Nah, he just had a bad case. You know, he got some bad shrimp or some they always do with some crimp. Good. I could say this just Joe Brien this the sun was in my eyes. Crap, it's not gonna work. Well, Dad just watched him on

the Muffle Upicus video. He was just and he did not do well. But the bad you know, the real bad thing is that, you know, the wife had to come out and be like, no, no, no, I'm just gonna stand here and prop him up and I'm going to give you coherent statements because he can't. I mean, that was blatantly obvious. Oh, we're they're dispatching Joe Biden to this state in that state, and I'm going but she's not going to be president allegedly, What are you

doing this whole thing is so stupid. Yeah, just pulling and need it Wilson. Maybe I don't know what's going on there, but I do have, I argue in Nancy regel well though, but Good, what's that is? Aaron Good? I don't know at this point, to be honest with you, So we'll we'll find out. Read tel clock Good. I was just gonna say, if you are going on the hour, if he could be on, and that's cool by me. I've got a bunch of water Gates stuff I would just love to talk about. Did you see my email

response to you about Watergate? By the way, I did you you mentioned in the Hogan book. Yeah, that to me was a big starting point. Just just side note to you personally, that to me was a big starter. It didn't answer all the questions. I'm not you know me. I'm not somebody who swears by a book. I never do. But what happened is that book gave me some directions to go find some primary resources. And I looked at some of his primary resources, and then I found other

stuff on my own. And that's why I have the attitude I do about Watergate. So overall, that book, if you haven't read it. I absolutely suggest you read it. A couple of things little outdated now. I think I don't have a copy of it anymore. If I did, I would mail it to you because to me, it's one of those things that's absolutely valuable. Which, by the way, do you have any visual problems, Jimmy at all? Yes, I can't see things real good. I'm

far exited. Okay, perfect, Because you know what, as a veteran who has if you have a documented visual issue, there is a way that you can get in on the same Library of Congress deal that I was able to get into as a kid, except it's easier now. And they used to call it talking books. And there's a thing through the Library of Congress where, believe it or not, they have lots of free audio books.

And the other thing is sometimes they can even create them for you, so long as they were published there, and you know they don't have a copyright issue where you know there's a primary somebody's got to get paid for it. The Library of Congress will sometimes even customize it for you. As either a veteran or a legally classified individual with a visual issue, you might want to look into that because I'll tell you what, if I could find that Hogan

book on audio, I would love to have it. I don't think it's available through there, and I lost my pass key to that. But that's a way to get free audiobooks. I don't know if you know about that.

I've heard you talk about it before I get So we need to look into that, because God knows I love audiobooks, so I'm better than reading them right well as a veteran, though, if you're entitled to, like, you know, one hundred thousand free ones, I mean, I'm not saying they're all winners, but I know they have a rather large history section already. And like I said, sometimes if you put in a request, they a couple of years ago they were willing to create books sometimes based on,

you know, a request from somebody who's part of the program. So I'm just saying you might be able to get some books that way. Of course, all federal prisoners to sit there and read books and make audio books. Salty and Charlie Manson, I know he's dead. Yeah, I want to hear them all, all the famous guys, Ted Bondy, it was best times. Well, you know what you know, what's funny is with AI, they could probably do that. And I'll tell you one other thing.

I encourage every author that I speak to just about when I talk to them, I go, look, when your book stops selling and you're not collecting on it anymore, would you please go and voluntarily sign up? Because if an author, if somebody is a copyright holder, signs up and basically volunteers their book, they create an audiobook for them even if one did not exist before that. You know, again, is there to benefit people who

are visually impaired and veterans as well. So I encourage them to donate their work if it's valuable in that way. If they're no longer making money on it, what the hell? You know, more readers, more education, and if your material is good, all the better, you know what I mean? So I always say, please sign up for the talk upsite of mind. Yeah, go ahead. What's that other? The free audiobook site work volunteer people read. I use that to go through the worm Commission for

a few times. The annoying thing about that is like twenty stinking different people did it, So there's all these different voices. Yeah, and there's a couple of Yeah, there's a couple of different organizations that have done this, that have you know, done the volunteer will read the book for you, and I'm not familiar with all of them. To be honest with you,

I really should get familiar with them because I love audio books too. But anyway, back to it, that that Hogan book, though, I'm telling you, is a really good jumping off point if you're already educated on Watergate and you know you want to get started. I know it's an old book and all that, and a lot of people kind of poo poo it, but I'm telling you it's it's what draws the main narrative for what I believe occurred regarding Watergate, the real story. You know. It's not like he's

perfect, but yeah, good, well I've been diving into this. Uh. His name is Jeff Shephard, Jeff spelt with the G G E O F. One of those GF guys. That's what I say. That's why I call a guy in real life. I know that. I'm like, hey, g O, I ain't got to call me that because I don't know why I couldn't your mind named you? Right? Yeah, because it's a slight variation from jerk off, that's why, and that about matches anyway, go ahead, Geoff instead of jail. Yeah, it's just that's like

I don't know, I think that's British or something. And anyways, so this Geoff, I mean Jeff Jeff. So he was a minor staff lawyer for next SUS domestic affairs staff mm hmm. And he worked there and the pretty much his introduction when they started pulling him and was he was actually the guy who listened to the tape and type the transcripts. Oh god. So he was one of those guys they got to bring in because they said you got to produce the transcript and then he was trying to edit it and he

was one of those guys. He's the guy took out all the dirty words. Yes, yes, yes, that was so when Nixon was freaking out over explitive deleted, this guy is dealing with that, is what you're telling me. Yeah, basically Nixon siting, do you have to put down that I should do here for I guess he could put blank. I love that scene. I love that. Yeah. Two things. One, I love that scene in the movie Nixon Jews Jews Nixon ga he's saying Jews. Uh.

That is hilarious. And also another name that's always annoyed me is Sean. With the scene s e a n for Sean. It's like, come on, just I mean Sean Connery. I give him a pass because he's from another land. Well, I give him a lot of things, but Americans named Sean for God's sake. Scene. I got a cousin like that, and I used to say that to him all the time. Scene what's up? Scene? You know what you mean? Scene? Look at the way your name is spelled. Do you know how to spell your name?

Because look at the way your mama spelled it? What the hell? An Helen anyway? Okay? Sorry? And CNN there you go, CNN like an An from the sea, a mermaid bance anyways. Got Well, this guy, I guess he's he's kind of right bus the JFK. Only he's been with Watergate and at the time he was convicted, even that Nixon must have known about it, this set and the other thing. But it turns out, you know, just like JFK, they will tell documents for fifty

years, but all that's come and gone. So as he gets to put it finally got to see what the other side was up to, and it's ugly, very ugly. Oh, it took the exact sames they took. No, they had counterintelligence stuff. Look, the Democrats and Republicans were running counterintelligence programs against each other in the seventies. That's what it boils down to. And it's hilarious because again I think Nixon was unfairly was unfairly hammered for

it. That's again weird position for me to take, maybe, but that's the truth of it. You know, at one time I'm Jimmy and b

Pete. Also, I was part of what they used to refer to, loosely in the JFK community as the New York Group, right, and within the New York Group, believe it or not, Watergate became a constant sidetrack, like say, in I don't know, ninety three ninety four in that area, and a lot of the stuff I wound up working on was Watergate material, trying to do that connection to the Kennedy assassination, like you know, the whole long before anybody you know, seemed to get this stuff circulated

to him at the push him a button. We were talking about what in the hell is the whole bay of pigs thing? You know what is he actually referring to? Uh? No, that's interesting, now are you talking about this is where there's the eighteen and a half minute gap right after that? Correct? Well, no, there is a Okay, I wouldn't say it's right after it, but we're in the same neighborhood here. There is a weird series of anomalies on the tapes in that entire section of them,

and it's not just the famous gap. There's other stuff going on. And in fact, I've never been credited for this, but and I don't even think it exists anywhere in the discussions anymore, but I found it. There is a drag on the tape where if one with a keen ear is paying attention, you can hear an erase head being dragged across the outer portion of

the tape. And it's because somebody is literally manipulating. This is what I have to theorize is that someone is partially depressing an erase button during certain parts of that section, like for literally twenty minutes at one point, somebody is like seemingly having their finger on an ear on the on the red erase button on the old Wallensack type reel to reel right, and when you do that, you can hear the blank area of the outer portion, like the outer

edge of the tape being demagnetized. It makes an odd and distinctive hum. And I discovered that That's something I discovered as part of the New York group. And I don't know nobody's ever ran with it, because I mean, I guess, what can you do with it until you can identify who was actually trying to edit the thing? You know, But unfortunately, it might tell you exactly why there's a giant gap there if you could figure out who

was actually playing with it, right there, Go ahead. This Jeff Sheppard day, he thinks that it was the CIA bomb back into leading things that Nixon talked about that they just didn't want on tape, like he actually was Almo Bay of pig Stints. Yeah, but his main pieces is way more interesting than me. Basically he says that they took is anything to be on or was he? I do not have a message yet. I'll check while you're talking. Go ahead, man. It's interesting because basically Arts of balt

Tax who ended up for until he was famously fired. He's a temporary general, right, acting attorney general. Briefly, go ahead, well he was never he was supposed to be a part. He was supposed he was the special prosecutor. Oh all right, well I'm sorry, yeah, he was the special prosecutor. Yeah yeah, sorry, yeah, yeah. He was working for Richardson, who was the Attorney general supposed for six months. But he didn't really do much other than help virch of both counts. Yeah,

he showed. He showed up about as much as the guy who was Arlen Spector's partner, right as the senior counselor God Frank, any of the actual

Warren Commission other than Ford and Dulls. They made the run. But anyways, this very shows that it seems basically it's exact same gup was the doup to tick down Happa, and they used the exact same techniques, all of which Joan mall And addresses and Lindon I believe in her Lindon Johnson book where she takes that Pappa, well she's just quoting Chief Warren who took the minority position. They almost overturned that because the FBI in that outfit broke so many

loss to get Happa. I mean it is a get Happa squad. Basically, Bobby Kennedy said, there's the man, put him away. He hurt my feelings. And then, uh, the old games all reassembled during Watergate, basically first in Congress by Ted Kennedy. And what really makes this Jeff Shepherd mad is the documents now showed that Judge s Rica, the Congress, the Special prosecutor John Dene McGruder, all these people were all talking to each

other improperly all during this stuff. I mean, obviously judges aren't supposed to be getting involved, helping the prosecutor, et cetera. And as the Holy smokes that this sounds awful familiar as a and I started thinking about it, exact same techniques. You could look at the top of water Gate. I ran Contra Russia hoapes January sixth and thirty four counts on a tree against Trump. It's always the same craft, the same There's a book called the Conspiracy

of Law, No, the Law of Conspiracy. It's practically their stinking guide book. In this junk, they picked the man and then they throw it a bunch of crap at him. I mean, it's just sick. I never had a clue that Ted Kennedy was so involved in Watergate. Yeah, and the making it and what it became. Yeah, interesting how that got dealt. Look, there was a hole back and forth there. I I really do think that there was a lot more cloak and dagger happening. This

is where my conspiracy mindset goes crazy. And we found stuff left and right that was just like wow, nobody realized this person was improperly doing this and that and the third thing. And by the way, the guy I was referring to, I just got a message on Skype and it's a correct answer. The senior council to Arl Inspector's junior council on the Warrant Commission was Frank Adams or Francis W. H. Adams, which is correct. I knew the guy was from New York and it was Frank Adams, Francis Francis W.

H. Adaby. He couldn't have been on he was on the warrant Commission. He must have been just the more senior lawyer or something. No, That's what I'm trying to explain. You know how Arl Inspector is a junior council for the warrant Commission. They were classified as assistant councils, and they were putting teams of two with a senior and a junior counselor. Okay. And they showed up, you know, for the first meeting, the first executive session, and you know, got their marching orders. Okay,

you guys are going to cover this part. You guys are going to cover that part. And they wanted these lawyers to come up with people they wanted to and you know, interview, interrogate whatever, and evidence they wanted and stuff like that. These are the people who were working, you know, under a Rankin's control. Who was the chief counsel right, you follow me so far, Jimmy okay, so Arl inspect good, yeah, good. Suspector was actually kind of at the bottom of the totem poll and that guy

was kind of in the middle. But even he wasn't doing much well, jay Lee, Rankin is your chief lawyer supposedly in this structure, right, So, like I said, he's got these teams of two under him that are meant to do some of the other lawyering work. This was the organization of the rest of it. They're not a commission member, but they are permanent attachments, you know, permanent parts of the commission. They're not the people actually sitting on the board, right, because we know all those people.

That's you know, you know obviously that's Chief Justice Warren Alan, Dulles Hale Box, you know those guys. But under them the lawyers doing the work. As Arlen Spector's the most famous of them. But Arlen Spector was literally the junior part of a two man team which was supposed to have a senior council and a junior council. Well, the senior council in Arlen Spector's case is this guy, Francis Adams from Mount Vernon, New York, according

to the Skype, which sounds exactly right. I mean, I could go look it up. But anyway, this guy effectively shows up and he's like a sixty year old guy. He shows up on the first day for the executive session, picks up his paperwork and goes home and never comes back. I think he appeared for one more executive session. He's on a transcript somewhere, but he's basically gone. Arlen Spector on his own. Arlen Spector, on his own basically ran his alleged team. So there you go. I

always wondered, what why spector? Well did everyone start listening to him? Well he was a fairly I mean after that good why I mean that magic bullet junk. I mean you can even hear the president and the senator who's on the commission Saints of Lord of Crap. I don't believe it either. Yeah, notice how to get in there? Yeah, that's that's Johnson talking to uh to uh what do you call it? Hoover? Right? Oh no, no, no, one of the one of the Southern had to

limit themselves to three shots. Okay, my mistake, one of the Southern counselors, one of the Southern Warrant Commission members. Is who it was not? Not? It was either Bogs or Russell? Yeah, yeah, Russell or Bogs. But anyway, forget about that. That's Johnson talking on the phone. Well I don't buy that, old well, neither do I.

They did that on the phone. But the thing is that the idea here is that these lawyers, these teams of lawyers, were supposed to go out and decide who they wanted to question and therefore bring their request to the commission, and also what evidence do we need to collect? And having our possession right, and the lawyers were supposed to hunt all that down and therefore you forget one thing. What aspects can we find that we need to hide?

Well, yeah, but we didn't even have to go there, because they split up these teams and then they created these subgroups, which there's like four of them, and the force up groups were like the Life and Times of Lee Harvey Oswald, the evidence against Lee Harvey Oswald, right, and like three out of the four teams had like literally had the name Oswald in the titles. So wonder what direction they're going in in their investigation, right,

And that's the setup premise, that's the beginning of the premise. But the funny thing to me is that this is one of these guys who gets this appointment as a lawyer to do this work and just never came back. They collected his papers at the end, and it was effectively just the stuff he got off the first executive session, and even after his death, they went and searched through, you know, his legal papers, and the guy pretty much said, yeah, I'll take the job and never showed up again.

And nobody ever asked why. But funny that the senior counsel. I don't know about that, to be honest with you. I've never really looked into if anybody got paid. But everybody else shows back up except this guy. He just didn't go again. And Spector did the work for both of them. So every time their team needed to you know, submit stuff or whatever, it was Spector all by himself, you know. And the guy was born in uh I think he was. He was like born like right around

nineteen hundred, so I mean he was older. Spector back then was only what maybe thirty years old something like that. How old was Spector in sixty four? All right, and that's what twenty it's maybe thirty. I think he was like thirty. Let me go look how old was Arlen Spector? Right? Because he used to be the assistant DA And then as soon as he did all this junk, then he ran against his own boss and switched political parties like three times, right Spector, Oh yeah, once every decade,

just to be sure he's on the side. Yeah, whichever he thought was losing. He jumped ship and go to the other side. Like film, you know, can't beat Hillary on Boyary, so I'll go to the other side. Well, I can't win as a Democrat, but the Republicans need somebody, so I'll go there. Okay, let's see he was born. Where is just his biography. I'll just do the math. Where is he at? Let's see, he was born in nineteen thirty, so in nineteen sixty four he would have been thirty four. Sorry, I thought he

was thirty. And he died in twenty twelve, right October of twenty twelve. I remember that because I remember saying to myself, Yeah, he didn't stick around for the fifties. I remember that. But born in Let me see, what does this say? I remember? Okay. So Arles Inspector February twelve, nineteen thirty to October fourteen, twenty twelve was an American lawyer, author, and politician who served as a United States Senator from Pennsylvania from

nineteen eighty one to twenty excuse me, twenty eleven. Spector was a Democrat from nineteen fifty one to sixty five, then a Republican from sixty five to two thousand and nine, when he switched back to the Democratic Party, and he was first elected in nineteen eighty He was the longest serving senator from Pennsylvania. But he didn't become Scranton Spector, though, did he anyway? Spector

was born in Wichitak, Kansas, to immigrant Russian Ukrainian Jewish parents. He graduated from the University of Pennsylvania, served in the United States Air Force. Blah blah blah. Okay, anyway, I just wanted to make sure about that. But yeah, Adams was the guy who was supposed to be the head of his little team, and he just didn't bother to show up again. And like I said, Specter didn't complain or not, and he just

ran with it. So there's why the magic pullet was never challenged before it was handed to the commission, and it was created out of necessity, as B. Pete said, Do you remember that story, right, B Pete?

Yeah, I mean basically, they had to hold themselves to the three shots because of the three shells that they supposedly found, So they had to start for Natelyn, who got hit win well, And the American public was going to ask questions because this couple of newspapers in Texas kept printing a story about a guy named James Tag So they're like, uh, oh, if we got a bullet down the street, you know, hitting the curb, and then a piece of the curb or a piece of a bullet hitting this

guy in the face, you know, the third wounded man. That's gonna make it a little hard to place all three bullets in the bodies of Kennedy and Connolly. Right, So not only that you had two holes in Kennedy, you had one in the front and one of the back, not counting the head shots. So they had to connect those two to be able to account for just the three shells that they claimed or fired or three shots.

So you know, hey, we got to start, we got to start moving stuff around, which kills me because you know, at first, that's when they came out with it, people said, well, it's impossible to

line up in the car, blah blah blah blah blah. And then what ten years down the road, you have somebody come up with this, Oh, the single bullet theory is possible because if you take the offsetting seats that were used between where Connolly was in the front and the jump seats you know Connolly was, they were all the jump seats in the middle, so in front of the president. But we can line it up now and yes, it actually fits because the seats are off set by three inches based on the

arm rest. Blah blah blah, and with the way he was leaning. Yes, it's possible to line up, you know, all of those wounds with one shot. So which set of bull crap do you want to believe? Either it was possible or it was impossible? Well, according to the

experts, now after all these years, they're both possible. Well, yeah, see there's the problem because to me, it's like, look, you got seven Okay, you got two of the wounds you trying to figure out with Kennedy, you know, at a minimum, but you got seven wounds to Connoy one way or another between the INDs and the outs. Right, It enters his back, exit his chest, just below his nipple, enters

the wrist. I got a question, exits the risk? Well, but I got a question before you keep going in any of these descriptions, did the bullet Was it ever claim that the bullet actually went through the seat that Connley was on, or did it hit him in the armpit in the back above the seat and never went through the seat? Well I always had that question. That's where hitting the movie, he says, the bullet just down

at some just said to turn around. Well, see, here's the thing you well, here's now that you turn is based on the fact that they're going with a straight line trajectory, which is a is a fallacy anyway, because anybody who shot a bullet through anything knows that even though it appears to be a straight line, if you get real technical about it, it's not razor straight. Never. There's always some deflection, some drag. It might

be small, but you're not gonna make perfectly straight lines. I mean two at first, yes, the first thing is a straight line, but once

you start getting resistance, it starts to change trajectory. So anyway, but the thing about this that always killed me is the only reason why I don't go for the seat being wounded, is because in any of the photographs, there's no evidence that the seat was ever wounded, even the early splatters, the FBI photo, the Secret Service photo, the photo in the White House.

My question is this, if the seat wasn't damaged, yep, if the bullet didn't pass through the seat, how did it go from Kennedy's throat to the basically the backside of the armpit and then come out as nipple without hitting the seat. Maybe I had to have jumped, would have had to have made a leaf over the seat back. Well, the tumbling. Okay. The thing I want to say, the way I understand it's so you

could correct me if I'm wrong. But good I thought these crazy people said that the bullet hit Kennedy, went through Kennedy, went through Connelly, and then went back to Kennedy, causing seven wounds and two different people. No, no, no, no, there's no no, that's not a U turn to go hit Kennedy again. No no, no, no, no,

that's that's a misunderstanding on your part. The the U turn that they mentioned in the Oliver Stone film and other people used to use in their rhetoric is about it changing and going back in another direction after it's already on a downward direction, moving to the left. See the thing is it strikes Kennedy

and it's yeah, it's moving down into the left. So so the most exaggerated, crazy cartoonish way to explain it getting over to the right hand side of Connolly's body is that it stopped, made a U turn, and then turned and went back into Connolly. But that's just a ludicrous thing that they presented to try and make it, like, like, how do you make this cartoon bullet do this? But the idea is then people get into well

Connolly turned and all this and the bullets tumbling. But Bpete's question about it not hitting the seat limits the exposure to where you know, Connolly's back is exposed. The only thing is that a jump seat is a little lower than a regular seat in a car, right, And that's what I'm strump standing

for right now is a picture that actually shows them in the car. I know the back of the jump seat is lower because those seats fall down and can be put out of the way, right, But was it low enough that it could enter high enough it because basically it went in down from the shoulder into his side, came out the nipple, then hit his wrist,

then turned hit his leg. Yeah, not to you know, And that's not counting the jog between Kennedy and Connolly for it to shoot way over to the light and hit him in the back of the right armfit right, So forgetting that it struck Kennedy at all, what you have is the bullet is tumbling, and I believe it's tumbling because of the the you know, the scar that Connley ended up with on his back, which you know you've seen the photograph of that, right Yeah. Okay, so it does appear to

be tumbling. It's not traveling in that pinpoint, you know, nice spiral Okay at this point, so it definitely hit an obstruction. But the thing is the obstruction is Kennedy. Remove that from the discussion for a moment. What happens is this is traveling now downward. Okay, not sharply, but you know what the angle is. Essentially it's been changed a little bit,

but it's still traveling downward. So you know, it wasn't deflected up or anything like that, or maybe it was slightly deflected up and then deflected down traveling through Connolly's body again, because this thing goes down and effectively, you know, when it exits through that right nipple, it totally shatters at least one of the ribs instantly. Yeah. So, because I'm looking at a picture here that shows the jump seat lower, but they're showing a trajectory from

where the actual hole in Kennedy's back was to Connolly's armpit. Not taken into consideration supposedly exiting through the throat. And then I mean because it had to take a jag to go from where it hit his back to where it came out of his throat, so it had to lurch to the left. Now

it's got to suddenly lurch back to the right to hit Connolly. Well, see, I don't believe it has to that herky jerky movement because if you move him inward a little bit like they, you know, like they've always pointed out the single nut people point out, and you drop it down, here's the thing. If Kennedy is slouched forward, then that changes where it can come out his back, and it could potentially come out through his throat.

However, this doesn't mean that it's traveling on the perfect straight line it started at when it hit his back. Right. So the thing is, I think it does make it, but now it's traveling on a steeper downward trajectory, is what it appears to me, because think about this afterwards. It ends up going through the wrist, which I'm assuming is lower than his nipple at the time, right, So that's a pretty steep trajectory it's got

to get on. So to me, it's a matter of deflection. I think it works as a matter of deflection, but that doesn't mean that I believe in the single bullet theory. All I'm saying is that it's the potential for him to miss the seat and have that trajectory is there. It's awfully tight, though, to be honest with you, it is a tight you know, there's very little margin prayer if that's what you were going for, But clearly nobody was going for exactly how this was going to change trajectory as

it passed through, right, So you don't need the right terms. Yeah, car, what's that? No one took pictures of that. No one took pictures of that car, which was just bizarre, tragic and a big mistake. But we do know that that was messed up somehow. What picture. You're saying they didn't take pictures of a limo. That's not true. There's not no front. I've never seen pictures of the interior and exterior of the car that day. They been what you see from video. No.

I have stills away from that car and they send it to Detroit. No. I have stills of from the FBI and also from the Secret Service, both of them photographed the interior of the car after its fixed, maybe because one went straight to Detroit, No, sir, not after it was fixed, still with the blood spatter everywhere. This is how Sherry Sherry feast are examined. The blood spatter from these photographs I have copy. You've got a shot in the trim. You've got the photographs of the dent in the trim

or the roof. Yeah yeah, but all about the windshield. You also have the chip in the windshield. You've got all shots sewing, all the blood on the interior seats and skill skip the windshield. Jimmy, I'm telling you there there is a good picture from over over, you know, standing over the car with the top open, where you can see the blood spatter, some of the flowers still laying on the floor, and even the lamb chot puppet. Well, I think those from a life photo. I'm saying,

I don't think worked worked that car, did they? This is yeah? This is well no, no, no, no, Now, I'm not saying they did a forensic anything except that they ended up with a with a bucket and a sponge at one point at Parkland. But and that's true, that's in that's myograph. That's crazy. That's obstruction. They're right there. They started messing with evidence. It's yeah, it's immediately destroying evidence. Right. But the thing is they still photographed. The FBI and the Secret

Service, each independent of each other, photographed one of them. I think the FBI did black and white photos and the Uh maybe it's the other way around. One of them did color and one of them did black and white. And I've got copies. I've got four different photographs of the interior of that car myself personally, from every other guy at Park one, Betazda,

and every Secret Service guy. Average four or five people claimed that they found a bullet in that car or on a stretcher or this, that and the other thing. So did they look into the car. They couldn't take a picture. They might have had a little lucky loop. Yeah, But all the guys who are who are claiming to have, you know, put bullets here or found a bullet here or whatever. Uh, that's not part of

what I'm talking about. These photographs. What Okay, I believe the FBI photographed it in the White House basement best I can tell, Okay, because it was brought back at one point X one hundred arrived at the White House later on that night, okay, and it was photographed there, and there was a sheet showing that it was checked in and who guarded it and everything else. But as far as where the other photos came from, where what

location the car was actually photographed in, I'm not sure. But it looks even and fresh. Are the color ones could because it's in color, but the blood spatter remains despite the cleanup job, and quite frankly that I think it's the color photos. Maybe it's a black we No, it must be the color photo, the colorfote one of them, one of the sets. I don't have it in front of me, but one of the sets you

can see more debris and everything in there. It's clearly, you know, not been entirely cleaned up yet, because like I said, the lamb chop puppet is still there. There's rose petals. And later they dig out pieces of bullet from the carpet on the floor, They dug out fragments. Those are accounted for and put into evidence and today they don't exist, but they did at one point and they were photographed. Each of the fragments was photographed.

Are you aware of this? What's that name that was the chief of the day. He says he went to the to the car Dennis David. He bought, Yeah, Dennis David, and he brought back a bullet for a piece of a bullet. They didn't Okay to my recollection, I could be wrong, but I'd have to check back. I mean, David Lifton filmed an interview with him in nineteen eighty I think or nineteen seventy nine.

The thing about that is, Dennis David was instructed by a secret Service agent who brought him a couple of small containers with bullet fragments in them, and then he was told to type out I believe, I believe it's him. It was told to type out, you know, a description for this piece of evidence. But that was a secret Service agent bringing it to Dennis David. Sorry. The guy that's burned in my memory is he was on that the men who killed Kennedy and he had glasses mustache. Oh so here's a

former Navy corman. The guy who was also who was also a cop in Florida, right, I don't know about that At that time. They were just talking about his medical stuff. Yeah, he went to Vietnam and got wounded pretty bad in his leg, and when he came back to the world, he wound up being a cop. Why am I drawing a blank on his name? He was super popular though. Let's see if I just checked cast of the men who killed Kennedy, I'm sure it'll come right on up.

But I know exactly what you're talking about though. He had the very typical nineteen seventies looking glasses on that had a tint, and he had a beard, right, yeah, yeah, perfect, that's the dude for sure. All right, let me double it. Yeah. I was like, yeah, there's my fellow navy man. I reckonize he was saying, is a vast conspiracy? Oh yeah, well and look everybody, it's a naval hospital. What do you want? So you're gonna you're gonna see guess who.

Lots of Navy people, and most of them, you know Corman or uh you know, in training for their medical stuff, right at least yeah, Corman's. It's a full year program. I know, it's pretty close to being a nurse, and it's like the most stringe end of the medic stuff. Well right, I mean, but just like anything. I mean, actually, b pte. You were a a weren't you a medica at a certain point? Yeah, I was a combat Medican Army. There you

go. He was in the army. So it's a little different than the Navy, but I'm sure it's different and yet the same you're talking about, Paul. Wow, we had we had health specialists that were like Corman in

the Navy. Okay, basically they took they had another week of training now for us where it was just hospital crap, where all of our crap was battlefield conditions fair enough, So you were taught to, you know, do stuff on the fly, and they were taught to do stuff, you know, once you get him back to somewhere where you can control the environment. Paul O'Connor. Paul O'Connor is the name of the guy you're looking for, Jimmy Paul. Yeah, Paul absolutely sounds right. Yep, it's Paul O'Connor.

And yeah, he was an interesting guy and he had a lot of stuff. He's the guy who during the Man who killed Kennedy and other interviews, talks about how Kennedy's body was actually in excuse me, a body bag, and you know, and he wasn't yeah, yep, exactly, which is awesome interesting because there's a video, a not very old video of he must be one of the few park On people that just love that warm report. Was it. No, he was on the other end. This guy

was one of I guess probably one of the officers. And he was first blabbing about oh yeah, no, he wasn't park because he described how he sent how he sent Kennedy wrapped in a towel, this and that, and then he started ridiculing people who believe a conspiracy. And I was thinking, well, that's interesting because when he arrived he was in a body bag, and you didn't mention that. Well, that's not Paul O'Connor. Okay, so Paul O'Connor, No, no, no, no, no, no,

no, no, Paul. I was talking about a totally different guy. This guy was some officer just that gave an interview a few years ago for the sixth Coore. Okay, well that's a different story, you know, when you're talking about the Bethesda people there to people that received it, O'Connor is definitely the guy who says it showed up. I think he said in a slate colored body bag with a zipper and this and that, and he describes unzipping the body bag and all that. That's Paul O'Connor, the

guy at Bethesda, I mean, the guy at Parkland. I'm not sure who we're talking about just yet, but you know, I can't remember which ender he was on, but I was he had to have been on the receiving end, because I remember him saying how it arrived, how he's seen the body bag, and I thought, well, that's interesting, because the

people in Dallas didn't send him that way. No, according to the people in Dallas, they threw a plastic, a piece of plastic down in the casket and then they wrapped his head in, you know, towels and stuff that they had land there, and placed him in the casket that way, wrapped in some hospital bedding and some towels, And that's the way he should have arrived, in the bronze type casket that they acquired from the local funeral

home. And they figure that's the way he should have arrived. Then they cut to in many interviews on the nineteen eighty eight Nova special on the Man Who Killed Kennedy and also on the home video that David livedon released where Paul O'Connor is always the punchline to it, where he comes out and goes That's not the way I got the body. He was in a body bag. It was a dark color, had a zipper on it. This and that. There wasn't any towels. He was naked, Now that's consistent. He's

naked in both places. But other than that, you know, the whole rest of it's a complete you know. Then they talk about the shipping casket versus you know, a funeral home casket, not top of the line, but an ornate casket. Right, So totally, Yeah, Paul the future, he would see all kinds of the same body bags in the same caskets of Vietnam, right because generally speaking, this was a standard sort of military

casket. When people died and nom they sent them home in these and uh, you know, coincidentally, that's exactly how you know a certain high level heroin smuggler was getting the dope straight from the triangle courtesy of the uh you know, courtesy of the US military, is that they were actually shipping the dope in the bottom. Yeah, not the milit You can't, no, you can't say that. Yes, dirty did it. Yes, I'm not

saying that somebody officially let it happen. What I'm saying is that somebody who was there was sneaking in dope in these caskets because there was a constant delivery coming to the US that doesn't have to go through customs, that shouldn't be getting inspected by anybody, So they put dope in the caskets in order to ship it here by the kilos miniell that actually was taking place here at Fort

Bragg. In fact, when they busted the guys, I think it was through what they found at Fort Bragg when they started taking a park office. Yeah, Frank, good god. The guy they made the movie American Gangster about anyway, his family what they called him, the Country Boys. They were from North Carolina, b Pete. So he was his cousins in North Carolina and his one other cousin who was working over in Asia got together and put this together. So they you know, they paid off people along the

way. So there was definitely you know, different MPs and stuff given. Hey, look, don't investigate, don't look into these things, don't disturb these caskets. My guys are gonna come by. Frank Lucas, my guys are gonna come by and we're going to take stuff out of the caskets. All you got to do is turn your head for a minute. You know, these guys' bodies are still going to go home. We're not going to mess with them or nothing. We're just going to pick up a little extra

something, something that's in there. So they'd slipped them a couple, you know, one hundred or couple of thousand dollars a month, and boom, they don't see anything. Right, that was part of the that was part of the chain. I'm not saying the military did it directly, but there's a military transport literally carrying dope. Whether they know it or not, another story. The guys guarding it know it. That, by the way, is a huge thunder crash if you heard that. But that's yeah, but

that's all some people say. They tried to say that that I ran cap to craft. Try to say that. George Bush and burn All whatever his name as North Fording rails just that. The other thing, I think there's more of the Air America guys taken advantage of the situation. Well that's a separate the others. Yeah, that's a separate you in a separate discussion.

I'm talking about nineteen seventies, sixties and seventies dope that was coming into New York City directly, and it wasn't being transported by the French Connection or the Italian mafia. This was an independent operation that was starting to beat the hell out of the local dope brothers because he was getting a cheaper direct straight from the source. Go ahead wouldn't have taken over for the French connection to Vietnam and the mid sixties went from being a French or being ow No, the

dope connection is different. What I'm saying is Frank Lucas put this thing together on his own, and at that time the Italian or Sicilians who were bringing stuff in, who were working with the French, had their own system. Lucas initially, all the way up until Vietnam ended, was using military transports instead of you know, hiring a plane, getting your own pilots, having

smugglers run and everything else. He was just paying off people along the way, don't inspect the caskets, and let let our guys load him up. It probably probably it was. I mean, it's a pretty disrespectful thing. To full five. He's probably not don't even thought about it for a long time. Well that's the true. Even when these guys, the guy from New Jersey who busted in on the guys in New York to uh, you know, to get straight on and I want to I want to look at

this and everything else. I think they show it in the movie American Gangster, like the military guys were getting ready to shoot him because they were like, you know, screw you, You're not messing with our brothers bodies. And he's like, look, I'm not trying to desecrate it an anybody's body. There's dope in there. And you know, whoever was in charge on the base, I mean pretty much was just about came to the you know, shoot this guy if he tries to open the casket. You know.

But actually I picture and a works, and I mean I know the canag literally as people stand for transporting just se Well, like b PTE said, part of that had to go through Fort Bragg. I don't think it all did because and here's the other thing is after it would hit some place. Well, there were a few instances. The story about using the caskets was something that Lucas claimed to try to throw them off from what was actually happening.

Guys were bringing it in just on military transport through their own luggage and stuff like that was where the most of it came in. Here, Yeah, they had used some, but the well let me let me help you. The drug dealer until credit for smuggling heroin in the coffins, and then serviceman was arrested before I go Atkinson, he's another one that was arrested here. He's from North Carolina as well. They were all in the same group,

the coffins. It was a couple of instances where that happened, but the majority of it was coming back in either their luggage or in their personal items that were being shipped when they changed stations, and that's how a lot of the stuff got moved to like Fort Benning, Georgia. They found some in a guy's furniture when he had it all packed up for his for his move to his new duty station. But here's yeah, military transports were used. Coffins was a method, but it was more it was more live than

fact. When when Frank Lucas started telling them what was going on, he was bullshitting them. The whole time. Okay, I know that sounds comforting, But here's the thing. I happened to know from direct knowledge that that wasn't a lie. It took place, and there was a variety of things where there was many military guys who some knowingly and some unknowingly, facilitated the movement of a large amount. Look, logistically, you can only put so

much in a casket. And when these caskets show up, Okay, you think people make mistakes with shipping and all this other stuff. They took special care with that. But when they would show up at one place, they would then have to be sent back to their families, you know, in a lot of cases, or they were sent for you know, burials somewhere. There's a lot of problems there. But it did occur with the caskets,

and it occurred in a variety of places. Some places have It's still not been described publicly that I know about, but it just so happens. That's the time period when I started getting taught just after this, mind you, this is when I'm getting taught how to cut dope. This is when I'm working in basements of some government housing, working with people to create packages working with the stuff that was coming in, and it came through a whole

lot of stuff through military transport up until the full cessation of Vietnam. Then they worked around it. And I don't think to this day it's been brought in court or on a TV show or by anybody. And Lucas has done his thing already, but he's never fully capped to somewhere that dope was coming from. And that's just the bottom line. I know that there was a whole lot of different ways, one way or another, the military, whether they knew it or only certain people knew about it, there was lots of

military movement of drugs. Okay, might be a service guy being paid to turn his back, might be an empty being told not to look at stuff. It might a whole lot of different ways, but there was a serious soldier connection. And I'll tell you the simplest reason why it happened. There was a bunch of guys that came back from nom As you well know, addicted. So guess what you could pay them in partially a good supply of heroin for themselves and some cash paid better than whatever it was you guys were

getting as a paycheck. By a long shot. So, you know, I want to go back to Jimmy's comment about you know, Iran Contra and how North and a few other people were involved in some shady dealings, but that there were persons that took advantage of the situation. I have to disagree with that completely. They knew the federal government knew exactly what Barry Seal and the rest of them were bringing back and knew what they were doing on it.

They went in with their help and Nna Arkansas Clinton knew about it. He knew what was going on because everybody involved was getting their cut. Yeah, the government was dealing dope, plain and simple. I don't care what anybody says. And Oliver north Forest I concern needs to be in jail just like the rest of the people. If they hadn't screwed up given him immunity when he tested five before Congress. Then when he did go to court and they had to drop to you know, he got what found guilty and then

they it got reversed because of the immunity that was given to Congress. I mean, they shot that whole operation in the foot if they wanted people to be held responsible for it. But that's the thing. They didn't want people to be held responsible for it, so they could claim all just some rope side of the operation that went off and was making money on their own. That's bull crap. Them government knew exactly what was going on, facilitated the

whole damn thing. Okay, one second, Jimmy, I had to mute you because you were starting to feedback when when BP was talking. But I'm going to bring you back on uh real quick though. Just I want to make one thing extremely clear here. The stuff that I have direct knowledge about, and the stuff I was just talking about is in no way connected to Iran Contra. Okay, Iran Contra and that cocaine that's cocaine. First of all, all that stuff is you know, No, no, I'm not.

I'm not. I'm not making the assumption that you that these are connected two totally different things. I'm not sure if I wanted to go back to that comment that I'm not trying to correct you, if someone taken advantage of the government. Yeah, I'm not sure what's going on. Okay, I'm not trying to correct you. I'm trying to separate it for the listener that when we're talking about Iran contra. It is not the heroin deal I'm talking

about, Okay, It's it's separate issues. It's strug dealing. Yes, there's a military element involved, yes, but I am not talking about either. Those things are not connected Frank Lucas and his group, which was bigger than just him and his family. Despite what they show you an American gangster, there is a group of people on the East Coast Okay that are getting

a direct line of heroin. And the whole big problem why certain people got shot at and why a bunch of bodies got dumped in Harlem that nobody cared about, is because they had challenged the French and Sicilians who were working together for most of the heroin. And they had been doing that since like the turn of the freaking century. I mean since before Prohibition. There was Italians and Frenchmen shipping heroin into the US. Okay, they had their establishment for

more than half a century before Frank Lucas comes in. Now, I don't know what the Bumpy Johnson deal was, or you know, the Godfather Harlem was doing before Frank Lucas. I don't know. We're basically just trying to cut out the middle guy. He found a direct source in Vietnam so he didn't have to go through the underworld connections they had been dealing with before. And that I have ticked off the organized crime is Hey, he's got his

own connection now, straight from the source. We got to do something about this, right, And that's why there's a certain time period there where they show there's like a deal being made and all that, where it's like they come to him and I forget that character actor's name who plays the mafia guy, but he's pretty cool and it's pretty funny where he goes. How about us? So the dairy farmers out here, Frank, do you have a think of us the other dairy farmers? You know, the government controls milk

prices for a reason. I mean, to me, it cracks me up. But it's true to a degree. That movie is exaggerated, misses a lot of things, misrepresents a bunch of stuff, but essentially the idea that you just put forth is exactly right. Lucas and his people, which included he had a built in organization because he brought his brothers in, brothers, cousins, all that right, Nephew's nieces. Okay, mostly the men, not the girls, all right. The girls they got other things to do,

and they weren't in the dope business. You know. Like his mother's there living with him, she's not dealing with the dope business. There's a whole thing where she's like, I don't ask you how you make your money. And that's the way it is. But I'm just saying that that particular line, that particular group of people, that's who the distributor is for the stuff that ends up in my little hands. And I'm being taught at a step on packages, you know what I mean. So I was around that

stuff. I was in Harlem at the time. I used to go in and out of there all the time. That's why I don't know. Did I ever tell you the story about meeting Tony Seleerno? B people. I met Tony Seleno at one point, and if you don't know who that is, he was literally like, you know, commission member, all that total accidental meeting. I'm a little and he looked at me and was worried that

somebody wasn't gonna feed me. Nice guy, apparently he's nasty to a lot of people, very direct, very abrupt, very violent, all that good stuff. But he sees me as a little kid with dirty, thick glasses hanging out with you know, a guy who's just some wise guy jerk from Jersey, and his whole thing is, is somebody gonna feed this kid?

Because I was there doing work, and later on I would get taught how to handle it, how to cut it up, the proper procedures, package it, make sure it's safe, make sure I'm putting the right thing in so that, you know, the injectables don't burn people. All that kind of good stuff. That's the trade that I got handed, you know, after a bit of an education. That's the truth of it. So I have a front row seat to part of what went on once that stuff arrives

in New York. So I'm saying, so I know that even after Vietnam, because in that movie they sort of say, you know, the Vietnam War ends, he goes away. His business didn't stop, and his supply didn't stop. It just got a little bit harder because they weren't shipping bodies home all the time from Vietnam. Okay, but still the military had shipments.

The military has personnel transports, you know, when somebody goes home because they're leaving the military or going on leave for a little while, they got to be transported somewhere, And like you said, sometimes it's in the luggage. Sometimes it's in the furniture being shipped. I'll tell you one of the best ones is always if a vehicle is actually moved for somebody, and it's not even necessarily the guy whose vehicle it is or whose furniture it is or

whatever, because somebody can take advantage of that. Right a higher up sends his car literally home to say North Carolina. Well, if he actually wants to send his European car home or is whatever home, he can do that. But somebody else might take a part part of that car and stash an extra hundred pounds of heroin, which nobody would notice or bat an eye at, as long as they're not taking the car part or X ray and things.

Right, So, these kinds of things went on, and it is such a wide variety of methodologies that nobody could definitively say, I don't think anybody had knowledge of every single which way it went, you know what I'm saying. Because even the guy who was say, involved in the furniture like you were talking about, or a guy was involved with the caskets. These guys might never ever have a conversation with each other, because how do you

keep something going long for so long? You keep your eff and mouth shut. Anyway, I'm gonna let Jimmy back on, but I wanted to kill him because of the feedback. You got anything else you want to tell him about before? I let him lose? No, let him go, all right, and we are overtime here, so you know, just saying we went extra time apparently, no, Aaron for sure this week, I do have an audio clip I was thinking about playing, but it's getting late and

I am kind of hungry. So and I'm sure be Pete. I mean, I know you don't got you don't got to work tomorrow, right, No, But I got a crap other stuff to do here in the yard. I got about two months of yard work catch up off. Oh well, I don't want a hundred degree with it. I don't want to keep you. I mean, look, if you want to bail, I mean I can close this out with Jimmy and if anybody else adds in, if you want to get going, yeah, I'm gonna have to bail shortly here

and it's already what twenty almost twenty to eleven. Yeah, so I'm sorry. I didn't mean to hold you overtime, but I just figured we can run. Why not, right, I don't blame you for going to the extra camp. Okay, So what we'll do is we'll get an answer from Jimmy, and then maybe i'll take a break, we'll say good night to beat Pete, and we'll see where we stand by the time we get there. Maybe i'll give you a little extra bonus and we'll get a full three

hours or three and a half hours in here tonight. So anyway, Jimmy, I'm gonna take you off hold. But again, I only put you on hold because you were starting to feedback. It was like nasty noise coming back from BP talking and I don't know why, but I wanted to make sure everybody was clear. So let's let you get back in on it. Jimmy. God, I was trying to ask BP the questions. What it was. Oh, it sounded like I'm the angle. Sorry, it sounded

like feedback, like there was noise coming back at us. So I apologize, that's right. I just on the Iran Contra. I guess my main promise tonight that I've been trying to say is again that the same techniques that were used on Halfa, were used in Watergate, were used in Iran Contra and Iran Contra. All you would have to do is replace the name mcgirder for Bud McFarland, replace the name John Dean with Colonel North. It's the

same playbook, down to the TV coverage. While they simultaneously work on the side with the legal system, while they simultaneously work with the media. It's the same thing with the Russia hopes, the January sixth hopes, and the trials, the many trials of mister Trump hopes. I'm telling you it's the same literal playbook, the laws of conspiracy. Okay, well you know again, I don't do the Friday Night Show for the sake of debate, But there you go. What do you have to say about that VPT anything,

Well, just for the sake of debate. I don't think Oliver North can be compared to the position of John Dean. I mean, if we remember correctly, John Deane was the one singing to everybody to cover his own ass. Oliver North didn't sing anybody when he got found out. Yeah, he went and testified. I mean, I'll never forget his his famous line when they're you know, the people on the commissioner or the hearing, or talking

to his lawyer about North, who was sitting right there. And finally he just you know, one of my potted plant is you're going to talk about me, talk to me. I'm here. You know. It was kind of funny, But now John Deane was basically the weasel in the in the group of Oliver North. As much as I despise Oliver North for what he got away with and his blatant gas lighting of Congress Oliver North, I mean he was loyal to the end. You know. He basically said, hey,

these are my orders, and I followed through. I did what I had to do. What he didn't say and what he wasn't honest about was him trying to take a little bit of the money and shoving it off to the side to use for his little side business. He had going on about being able to fund things. You know, you wonder, you wonder where

money comes from for some of this co op stuff. It's usually from the last co op thing that was going on where they just shoved a little money to the side for safe keeping so that they could use later and it'd be totally untraceable. Oliver North was a crook. He knew what he was doing. He just luckily got caught under an immunity deal that saved his skin later

on. The part that I hate about it is when all of this was said and done, suddenly they're trying to resurrect Oliver North is this great American hero and he was a corrupt crook just as much as the rest of him. He was misgrace to the damn uniform. And why are we making a hero out of somebody that was blatantly doing something that he knew was illegal but did it anyway because he thought his orders would cover his ass And it hadn't

been for the community deal in Congress, he'd be in prisoned. So screw Oliver North. Fucker's hero status is a crook. You know my major criticism because I'm not surprised, shocked, or even bothered by it, because I

assume these kind of things go on more often than we hear about. You know, what the issue is for me is that John dene is a little more skilled as a talking head when they bring him on a show, and probably is a slightly better talk show host, because you know, even the fans of Bali North don't seem to stick with him when they give them jobs on the Fox News network or the American whatever the hell that was network he was on for a little bit. He doesn't seem to get good commercial work

or jobs. John Dene gets no commercial work, but he does maintain a job as a talking head they call on all the time. You know, Other than that, what can I say? You guys got your own opinions about it. I mean, I mean, I guess they have that in you know, I guess that's the similarity between the two. They both corrupt as hell and should have both been pulling time. Yeah what they did. But you know, other than other than being a common crook, I think

they played different parts. And North. I never understood the hero worship of Olig North and how they could claim he was an hero for what for basically breaking the law every possible way that he could and dealing drugs into the United States. God knows how many kids were affected by what they were doing. But we forget all that, you know, he's God, He's the great. You know, American patriots threw that crap. Oliver North is a crook.

I'll tell him down with him. You think was directly involved in the drugs. Yes, he knew exactly what the hell was being done on both ends of shipment. Stuff We were taking down there, stuff that was coming back and looking the other way when it came time to get rid of it. A goddamn government knew that those guys were bringing drugs back and putting it on the streets. They knew it. They didn't care because for them to make the past, all of the all of the roadblocks put in place to

fund the conference. Oh damn lot of them that have gone to jail. I think we happen to meal like John Dean, a fired rolling late. I'm trying to look up to see what time actually Dean served. Let's see he began his testament zero zero. Well, listen to me, they listen to me. Jeff Shepperd just bound out the records, and it turns out all they did is put Dean in witness protection, him and Water mcgirder. But Dean was the first pick snitch and they put him. He was supposed

to go to prison. Instead they put him in witness protection. Yeah, Dean, Dean, according to what I have in front of me, actually did four months. And let's see Watergate break ins eighteen nineteen months foundation describes the architects of the where a cave of hauled him in, Erlickman, and Mitchell. The trio served eighteen eighteen and nineteen months. Okay, so he got four months, while Haldeman, Erlickman and Mitchell got eighteen eighteen and nineteen

months, respectively. And his deal was he was released in seventy five and he was key witness prosecutionous safe to reduced prison sentence. Yeah, four months. I've got it from three different sources. He got four months, right, it prints out. He didn't do a day. He didn't do a day. He'd rob checked in the prison. This guy's got the documents to prove that now well, and also I ever seen it. Yeah, home confinement without an ankle monitor. It's basically what he went through. I don't

know the thing. I mean, you know again, this guy might have new information. I've never seen her. Sorry. How many months did Liddy serve lyddy? Oh, that's a whole he served, he turned years. He was out for four twenty years. Yeah, Liddy, Liddy served a bunch. Hold on, let me let me get it straight here. I know I have it actually in a and that's why I respect the guy. He did his time, he got caught, he did his time. He didn't weasele on anybody. He came out. He made a life for himself.

Oliver North didn't do shit to get the damn glory that he got except sitting there, you know, with Fawn Hall in front of Congress talking about oh yeah, he's you know, he was the loyal guy. He followed his orders and blah blah blah, some of a bit should have been in jail, got caught doing. When he'd get in, I'd never see the end of prison, Okay, Oliver North turns it into a damn a work

attribute. Yep, all right, kiss science. So according to what I have here in my Watergate notebook, my digital Watergate notebook, which I keep. Nobody knows about that, said me. But in my digital Watergate notebook, his sentence in total, when you added together, Lyddy was four years and four months total in federal prison. Yeah, he saw a four and a half of twenty year sentence. Well, but Carter commuted his sentence to eight years. He got out after four and a half yeah before Yeah,

according to this fifty two months. So anyway, that's what I have. In total, he might have had times of release for appeal or whatever. I don't know. That was wrong that hold on. You guys speak one at a time, which one first? Who wants to go for you know what, Go ahead, be Pete, you do it, and then then let Jimmy go because you guys are speaking at the same time. Gud. When Carter commuted his sentence eight years, he let's see, that made him

ELIGII parole in July of seventy seven and he was released in September. I served a total of four and a half years, all right, so it was so, but he was sentenced to twenty and forty thousand dollars in fines. Okay, what were you trying to say now, Jimmy, I don't remember Tom. I wanted to tell oh, okay, I remember, uh you were talking about them becoming preachers, and I said, well, Colson

did. But it turns out that that mcgirder, who was the dirtiest of them all became some kind of priests because I seen him in some kind of priestly garb. Okay, I didn't know about that. But let's see April twelve, seventy six. Yeah, okay, So in April seventy seven is when Carter. Did you actually read that from somewhere? Because I was going in my notes there BP is that where you read it? Yeah? From a Wikipedia entry on Liddy? Okay, well, in my notes I got

it as April twelve of seventy seven. This is when Carter commutes in the oh, in the interest and this is the quote in the interest of equity and fairness based on a comparison of mister Liddy's sentence with those of all others convicted in Watergate related prosecutions. In other words, he did it because it was like these other guys got off light. Why is he paying the heavier

price? Basically, so, yeah, he basically commuted and he left the find in effect, though he still had to pay the forty thousand dollars fine. Well, because he commuted the sentence in April, that dropped it down. He became I was able parole in July, and he was released in September. But you know Liddy didn't say it. Lyddy kept his mouth shut the whole time. He took responsibility for what he did. He paid his

time, Carter intervened, knocked some time off of it. And that's why I respect you, Gordon Liddy. Remind these Roliver North, I'm sorry. That's all they should have been doing. Years in jail. And know they they let him out because of his connections and the way that they handled him in Congress. They had to give him unity in Congress. He'd gone to court, he'd been found guilty, he'd been down some time, which he should have for what he did was illegal, and he knew it was illegal.

He sat out, knew it. Okay, remind me, remind me later to send you one of the documents that Lyddy wrote on during his release process, because it's comical. I wouldn't swear by it, but I literally think he decided not to write in the you know, provided spaces at one point and like put it in there completely crooked like a madman, and uh just wrote an FU so well, this Crowlene guy. That's college course.

I basically listened to all fourteen episodes. One thing he recounts as a Once, mcgirder put his hand on Liddy's shoulder and Liddy said, if you don't take your hand off of me, I'm going to kill you. So after that, McGruder got the idea that Liddy isn't a touchy feely kind of guy. Yeah. Now there's some stuff that he scribbled down though, like on the backs of his forms and in spaces and stuff that's pretty funny. And yeah, it's it's anyway. I have some I have some scans of some

documents to send you me. They're pretty funny. But look, we're basically at the end of the need to do this segment. So Jimmy, I'm gonna put you on hold and uh, we're gonna let be Pete off the hook for the night. But we definitely did some overtime here and almost three hours. So I'll give you the final word. No, Jimmy on the line, and I'll shut up, and you say what you want to say and we'll go to a break. Oh well, glad for another week,

And I'm glad. We've got some calls in and we've got another one in the can. We'll looking forward to doing it the next week. I'd like to remind everybody that when you get done here, go to ochelly dot com and hit the donate button. It's really appreciated and needed at this time. Other than that, support your local food banks do which can to help your

neighbors. People are hurting out there. Let's see if we can get through this next few months of the madness that is our presidential contest and contest. Hopefully we'll be better for at the end. But other than that, I'd just like to say good night, thank you everybody, and we'll see you next week. Absolutely b peting, we appreciate you. Look. Contest is a great word. Excuse me, I got to adjust my mic. Contest is a great word for what the hell is going on. There's a lot

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that you can collect the whole thing, no matter when you start. But the sooner you do, the better, because I'll tell you after Lancer, after the presidential selection coming up, after this year ending, who knows what the future holds. I mean, I'm doing my best to hold everything together, but you never can tell what might come down. So the more that you chip in something when you can afford it, I know it's tough on everybody. But whatever you can do to make it easier on me, it

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call in and talk to him on a Friday. Anyway, that's that be In Denial The Secret Wars with Air Strikes and Tanks by Larry Hancock. Secret Wars became a staple of US covert operations are still Hancock's book In Denial rips many of them music goodbye there, You're still Therefore. It shows why it really failed and why the United States did not burn from it. It also

shows why the countries today are doing a secret operations with more success. And this is the book that puts what some want to deny into the light. In Denials, Secret Wars with Air Strikes and Tanks Larry HANCOCKY. For more information, go to Larry heeipen handcom dot com. Pick up your copy of In Denial at Amazon dot com in digital or physical, f u jelly dot

com, Radio NetWorld. I remember as the Catholic king growing up in an area where we didn't like Cathic can get I'm the first prison They're going elected state wide in the state of Delaware. When I was a kid, well you know I was. I looked at John Kenny and said, well, he god, he got elected. Why can't I get elected? By the way, I'm proud to be as I said, the first vice president, the first black woman served with a black president. Proud of the all of

the first black woman in the Supreme Quarter. There said so much that we can do because the week nothing but the United States America. I wouldn't make I wouldn't make it a Habit followed me that it's worse. Remember when Trump's lawyers argue that he could five dollars, that's enough to make a difference in this election. So I'm proud thefts, I said, the first vice president,

first black woman with a black president, proud than the law. That's trious thing for anyone to argue an absolutely no serious person could possibly believe that the constitutional, the laws of this country would allow that to be the rule. Well, the subrene court, he said, hold my beer while I assassinate my political rivals. President is entitled for total personal gain to use the trappings of his office. That's what you're trying to get us to hold.

Yes, the Supreme Court is effectively given law breaking presidents, and we're not singling any one law breaking president out or anything could be any felonious president. Almost absolute immunity from criminal prosecution, and where the court did not grant outright absolute immunity, it gave presumptive immunity and procedural protections that might as well have been absolute community and while unofficial acts of the president still received no immunity.

The crab cherry on top of this crap Sunday is that even though a president now has immunity from criminal prosecution for official acts as president, a prosecutor cannot even use official acts as evidence and a prosecution over unofficial acts, which makes prosecution of some unofficial acts virtually impossible, whether you are a Republican or a Democrat. As a big term, mhm, Welcome to our series of ups

and downs for Certain Pologies second season. I am so happy to be able to go through this season in all of the detail that we're about to So for those of you who may not be aware, we're going to do things a little bit different. St yeah yeah, h h h h dot Com Radio Network, Chili dot Com Revelation through conversation. Get ready, get ready for going to Chuck O'Kelley. He's Shako Shelley. You know it's Shakra Shelley. You are about doing Mark upon the k who say the eyes of the

world out upon you. The hopes and prayers of liberty loving people everywhere march with you in company with our brave allies and brothers in arms on other fronts. Your task will not be an easy one. Your enemy is well trained, well equipped, and battleharten. He will fight savage demanded man. The tide has turned. The freemen of the world are muching together to victory.

Good luck, and let us all be things pleasing Almighty God upon this great and noble undertaking what I do. Revelation through conversation in a radio show slash podcast. You want the good news, listen to the o'helly effect. Check o'celly is the most underrated voice in all media, news, education, and entertainment. The daily bread from o'helly dot com. Go there, save yourself from ignorance ochelly dot com. But we all agreed to put o'ceelly dot com

on and listen to the o'ceelly effect. Revelation through conversation o'helly dot com. Gee,