You. Chilly Effect is sponsored by Wall Street Window dot Com and listeners now July twenty seven, twenty twenty three. Allegedly, according to that thing we call a calendar, this is indeed the show you were looking for, because you're hearing me say this. That's how I know that. Anyway, here we are on a Thor's day. I've got Mike Swanson with me, the guy behind Wallstreet Window dot Com. Of course you can be in the no go to Wall Street Window dot com. It is not just about Wall Street
and he's the author of a bunch of interesting books really. But two, I like to focus on the War State. That read book you see on the sidebard o'chelly dot com and also is popping up in some kind of new search engine thing. I don't know how that works, but it pops up alongside of the Ocelli Effect logo with some sort of new image search. I
don't understand it. I'm not going to claim too. But either way, that red book where you see Eisenhower during his farewell speech on the cover of it, The War State authored by Mike Swanson and Why the Vietnam War, a book you here adds for on here and all that good stuff, the first in a series of potentially three on that particular conflict, containing information that I guarantee is rare. You're not going to see it everywhere. So and
Mike, with his unique writing style and all that. Also, I advise go sign up for the mailing list at Wall Street Window dot com. You can get the morning headlines. It's not the rundown like JP Sattilli, but hell of an interesting resource and a way to collect yourself in the morning if you want to read your news instead of I don't know, tuning to some talking head is going to have the same argument in front of you over and over again, or listening to the radio. Do people listen to the radio
anymore? I know they do. We're on the radio apps anyway. Welcome to Thor's Day, Mike Swanson, How are you doing to night, sir. I'm doing great to you. It is a good time to talk to you now. I've been watching some congressional hearings lately. Certainly I was watching the Judiciary Committee all right, and Jim Jordan with his shirt off making his points. Lots of interesting stuff. Oh, by the bye, Hunter Biden's plea deal. Maybe there's something going on there. The headlines are a bit
sketchy. Yes, indeed, that's all happening in The dog and pony show continues, except to my disappointment, no dogs, no ponies, just dog and pony type shows happening in Congress. But there's also other things going on.
Larry Hancock has been on recently to talk about the UAP conference that I think I think is going on this weekend, come to think of it, where you know, academics are actually studying some of the history of what's gone on the national security state, its reaction to it, you know, very much liking his book Unidentified, all that good stuff. But there are hearings
going on. Some thing's happening here regarding what used to be called UFOs nowadays UAP, right, And I've been corrected a few times back and forth. Is it unidentified aerial phenomena or is it unidentified? I don't know either way. I know unidentified. It's the first part of it, and it's meant to be the new way, the new nomenclature, so to speak, the new linguistic approach to talking about things you might see in the sky that are
not quite easily recognizable. One way or another. And you told me that you've been watching some of these hearings just before we went to air. So what is your takeaway? What do you get from that? Mike Swanson? Well, I haven't actually been watching them, but I got someone a few hours ago to email me about it, asking if I want to do an interview about it. And wait a minute, somebody emailed you and said, do you want to talk about the UFO stuff that's going on? Like?
How how did that conversation? No offense, Mike, I don't usually think of you as the UFO guy, the UAP guy. I mean, I know you you might be interested in those things a bit. A lot of us are tangentially interested one way or another, whether it's you know, I'm interested in aliens implying saucers, or I'm just curious about things that are in the sky that we can't identify one or the other. But I don't usually think of you that way. Or do you have some kind of secret interest
in this I don't know about. No, I don't really have harry any interest in it, honestly. Um, So, was it weird that somebody just emailed you like that? Okay? What they did is they They they say they have a podcast. I'm not gonna name it because I don't want to talk bad about somebody to make it come off like I'm doing that.
But uh, And they said they want to know if I like to discuss my book The War State in context of the hearings today and what they say appears to be rising tension between the legislative and executive branches regarding oversight of classified programs and technology. And they say that I'm an expert on the historical origins of an American national security state, so I could basically give my perspective on
that. And they'd wanted to discuss the warning signs that eishaw and other Why they said, why you said military industrial complex, which is what the book is about, how the Cold Wars linked to that secrecy and classified programs. But then they have this question, what are the current debates going on now
about UFOs, UAPs and unacknowledged special access programs, that's their phrase. But they their question is where that represents Congress reasserting its constitutional oversight role, and how these hearings could could be implying that the balance of power between the defense establishment and our elected Representatives is changing. And well, that's an interesting angle, Mike, because after all, look one way or another, access to
classified documentation, exactly what is classified, what is not? You know, the president's right to declassify. All these things have actually been stirring in the pot for the past couple of years in the public right, and the changing of the guard in the House of Representatives and therefore the changing of people running these committees has certainly given us a different face and different arguments regarding ISA right.
The behavior of the investigative agencies, which, by the way, make no mistake, a lot of times when there is an investigation is something connected to UAPs. Often who is called, well, the military and the FBI, So you have different levels of classification that could go on there. You do have knowledge about the Pentagon's behavior. Like I said, that's why that's
a great book from Larry. It's a little bit unconventional identified. Did you read that book, by the way, I haven't, but I haven't read it, Okay, Well, but interesting stories in there about how you know, there are odd things that have gone on overhead and on the ground at say, you know, some of the what should be the most secure facilities in our military constructs, right where nuclear weapons are stored, where you know
weapons are are housed, and like missile silos, different facilities that are pretty sensitive and exactly how did be Yeah, go ahead. I would say, though, like this idea that the people are now gonna you got a hearing and you have a whistle blower, and that this person supposed whistleblower, and that means everything is changing, I don't buy that. In fact, I
would say no matter. First of all, I'm just gonna say, one person talking and telling stories, it's not enough information for me to really bother myself. You know, I want to see documented proof. I want to see a real investigation or something of details. Just Congress having a hearing and a bunch of people saying things, Well, you know that's happened before, and it doesn't mean it's always true what we have they're saying, true,
true, absolutely true. But we also have seen, you know, some movement here where there's going to be now at least reporting mechanism so that you know, when these anomalies occur or these anomalous events take place, that there's actually somebody to go to to collect that information. That's a change in recent years because for a long time, as Larry pointed out on the show,
there was nobody to go to. Right. You could contact the Air Force and the FBI or whatever, but they didn't have a point of collection for this stuff, and who knows where it was actually going when things were being reported. We also got in recent years some of these videos outside of the whistleblower, somebody showing up saying, hey, look they're hiding stuff from you. I mean, the normal tug of war between what the public should and
should not know is a very small aspect to what we're seeing now. So I can see how you're You're saying, look, there's not a lot happening here, But at the same time, maybe there is because at REA seizing a change in behavior regarding reporting and collection. In the end, what's going to happen is Space Force is going to get more money. See now, that was my biggest question, and nobody likes the question is Okay, is
this really just an overall justification to fund Space Force? Which was a laughable thing. I mean, we saw that emerge very reminiscent of the Star Trek logo, the new Space Force logo. You remember all that during the Trump administration. Oh yeah, so yeah, people thought it was some people made fun of it, But now no one question and no one will because they're gonna be scared or think that. You know. Way, we just need
this because of this unknown threat of what UAPs are. Well in the White House, what I'm reading today is the National just go is he the National Security Council spokesman said there may be life outside our planet. Well, sure, there might be, And then he says, we don't know what the UAPs are. We don't know if they prove that the extraterrestrials are real,
Well that's a way to tantalize the public. But in reality, once again, I mean, look, if there is something flying over our heads and we don't know what the origin is or who's in control of it, that does become a literal national security problem because forget, you know, the little green men that people are going to joke about, but I mean imagine that. And also this justifies a lot of military and other types of budgeting in
the government. Right, Well, what if, say, the Russians, the Chinese, somebody else has technology that's so far ahead of ours that you know, it's not recognizable. It doesn't even appear to be real because it's you know, some sort of supertech, right, So we got to approach this and take it seriously. And perhaps again it's another justification to fun things like Space Force, which again did seem to be a joke. Yes,
and it's not always about aliens. But if you shake people up a little and get them thinking about that kind of stuff, well, what would we do in the case that there is a hostile something coming to see us?
And that's the thing is so far hostility has not been established. And the fact that some things are remaining unknown because they don't know how to classify it, they don't know where it came from, where it went to, who created the technology, etc. That means that they got to do something right, Mike, I mean, this is how you justify these agencies getting funded, how you justify brand new studies, whole new agencies being created. Sometimes
maybe we need a study of UAP's office, so to speak. Now, I find this funny at exactly the time when you know, Mitch McConnell is freezing up on camera, you know, apparently had a fall earlier this year that maybe they didn't report on's trying to keep his dog from biting people.
I mean, it's a weird week, but you know, why not here we go, let's talk about aliens because at least that will capture people's imaginations and maybe forget them, you know, and get them to forget that it's almost impossible to feed yourself when you go to the grocery store, right, I mean, I know that's a mouthful, but true or false? Isn't this the kind of thing that sometimes happens. You capture the American public's imagination
with something you justify funding. I mean, you remember Star Wars, you know, literally what they called star Wars at one point, the Space Defense Initiative, right, the SDI Reagan era. You and I were kids, But I mean that was a fully justifiable thing because guess what, there might be a need for space weaponry so we can keep up with people. I mean, this is how they justified MK Ultra. This is how they justify many different operations, the money funding development of new weapons, etc. Etc.
So in context, this is an important issue, is it not, Mike? But yeah, we're not gonna. The problem is, I don't think we're gonna. We don't have any real information the public or the government maybe both? Hey, fair enough, I asked the open question. I'm not trying to lead you. You know, yeah, maybe both? Right do we what do we know? And when did they know it? You
know? I mean, I think there's a potential here that the government knows a hell of a lot more and they're throwing out this other stuff to not get us to even go anywhere near what they truly know. You know, Hey, look, we will admit that our navy pilots have filmed some stuff, and we'll admit that our people are seeing things, and will admit that
there's been some incidents now even though we didn't use to. Maybe that's being thrown out to capture people's imagination because there's a much dark or truth that's being hidden behind that. I mean, is that's a possibility as well? Right? Oh, sure that makes a lot of sense. Or again, the
other the other worldly thing, Just like with the jfk assassination. I always if I want to really screw up somebody's mind who is really intense about it and not really well informed, I try and present to them the possibility. You know, what do you think is the government covering it up? Did they do it? Blah blah blah. I go, well, how about this, for instance, how about if nobody actually knows what happened? I
mean literally nobody knows. The people that you know were involved in the crime are long dead and the tracks were fully covered, and nobody will know. Nobody does know. And it isn't a matter of covering up a truth that's being held back. It's a matter of the truth being held back is they don't actually know what happened still sixty years later, and that hurts some people's
heads. You know, how about this, A hundred years of UFO sightings at least documented, maybe they don't know crap about what happened there either, you know, on any of these counts. I mean, Roswell was what year was Roswell? I can't remember now, but nineteen it was somewhere. I think it was in the forties. Actually, yeah, like just around near the end of World War forty eight or forty six or something. I'm gonna go take a look and see when when the Roswell incident was, and
that would be the modern day launching forty seven of the fascination. That was forty seven, okay, But but either way, that would be the modern day launching of the interest, right, And well, that's what I'm just I'm just extremely skeptical because, you know, I don't believe that was real, you know, the Roswell incident as far as being a alien. Um, well, I was gonna say, what do you mean You don't mean you don't believe it was real. You don't think it was actually an alien?
Do you think it really was a weather balloon? Do you think it was an experient yea, I think it's probably a weather balloon. I think it might have been an experimental piece or something, you know that they didn't want people to look at very kid, that would could be how I don't think a space man, but yeah, what you're saying could be possible too. Sure a quick look at you know, just maybe not a weather balloon but spy balloo. Look, we just had the spy balloon panic a few
months ago about the China balloon floating of the United States. Everyone went into a panic. Yeah, I was just gonna ask you about that. Is that, you know, as as antiquated as balloons seemed to be, And I even said that at the time, weird, it seemed like almost nobody knew what the potential was for whatever that thing could do. The total terror some people were in. Yeah, and our government did not seem to have
a handle on it. They seemed a little confused, right, I mean, this thing made it across a lot of land, you know, before it was eventually taken down. And just for the record, you're correct, July nineteen forty seven, there was some stuff recovered that was metallic debris man and stuff like that. Well do you remember the story of Betty and Barney Hill. That name is very familiar, but but tell me about it. So they were let me look up to you the exact year. It was
in the sixties, Okay, Betty, I'm sorry Betty and Barney. I think it was. I think, I said, Betty, let me see what year this happened, nineteen sixty one. So like the whole UFO thing that we grew up with was these stories about people getting abducted and probed, you know, taking to the space saucers or whatever, and the grays would look at them with their big eyes and probe them basically molesque people more or less, and then they would show up naked, you know, on the
road or something. But dropped off by the spacemen and they wouldn't have any memory what happened, and they'd had to go see psychiatrists or something, and then they remember what happened. And I mean in multiple stories like this, there's some movie made it. Two or three movies made about it. Communion. Well, the biggest one was Firing the Sky Fire and the Sky came after Communion. Communion Note was the best selling book and then made into a
movie. But anyway, these stories were ones that were kind of big in the eighties. But the original version of this is the Betting and Barney Hills
story, and they told the story in nineteen sixty one. They're out in the countryside somewhere driving and when they got back home, they noticed that they had lost a couple hours of their life that they couldn't account for, you know, And then they ended up seeing a psychiatrist, and under intense hypnosis, um, they told they remembered um supposedly that the spaceship landed in front of their truck or car or whatever when they're going down the road and they
got out and one of them was taken up in the ship. I think it was the demand And basically you know, put on an operating table and molested by the aliens. That's what That's what they're to me, that's what they're describing. Well, if you don't mind. And even though I hate Wikipedia, I almost feel like they did a good synopsis. I could return that real quickly, just to lay it out. And it's interesting because remember, these are tropes now, and not you, Mike, but the listener.
These are tropes now that that really carried on through the seventies, eighties, and nineties. That were extremely common. You know, even jokes in pop culture right if you're down south somewhere on a fishing boat and you're probably gonna get abducted, you know, like a southern uh, you know, sort of Hicks getting getting abducted right all the time. That was like a comedy trope. You could see it on The Simpsons and comedy skits and stuff.
Anyway, back to the original incident according to Wikipedia now, and I've dropped that link in the live chat room at o'chelly dot com, so I'm gonna read from it briefly. Barney and Betty Hill were an American couple who claimed they were abducted by extraterrestrials in a rural portion of the state of New Hampshire. Now let me pause for a second. Now, this is in
New Hampshire, and most of these things occurred in rural areas. It was most often taught of to be like you know, Arkansas and Louisiana and places like in Georgia, places like that, but always in these rural areas, Okay, not heavily populated areas. Back to it. They were from the state of New Hampshire from September nineteen to twenty of nineteen sixty one, and that's when they claimed the abduction was. The incident came to be called the
Hill Abduction in quotes and the Zeta Reticuli incident. Okay, Well, it says because two ufologists connected the star maps shown to Betty Hill with the Zeta Reticuli system. Okay, okay. Their story was adapted into a best selling nineteen sixty six book, The Interrupted Journey and the nineteen seventy five television film The UFO Incident. Most of Betty Hill's notes, tapes, and other items have been placed in the permanent collection of the University of New Hampshire. Her
Alma mater. In July twenty eleven, the new the New Hampshire Division of Historical Resources marked the site of the alleged craft's first approach with the historical marker. The Hill's story was widely published in books and movies. And then it goes on, you know with UFO encounter and different different things. You know, their their history a little bit and so on and so forth, as Wikipedia does background so on. Um, but these incidents, these became a
common thing. It was even again like another pop culture joke where the daytime TV shows you're Haraldos, you're Phil Donihue's right. The trash here shows that that miniment Phill donni Hue, which you can the point I make. Yeah, that's everything you described that so correct. Yeah, it's just I'm pretty certain that their story that you know, nineteen sixty what was it one, is that what we were saying in nineteen sixty one is when the incident occurred.
Yeah, yeah, this this nineteen sixty one story incident who however you want to phrase it, but it happened in nineteen sixty one before they were the very first people to ever stare at tell a story about being abducted losing their memory, being probe molested, and so forth. There was a story. I'll tell you. I mean, let's tell you. I have no interest in this stuff, but as a child, I was. I don't, I don't. I didn't really believe it, but I was. I
would read a lot of these books about the ufos's. I know, you found it interesting. Yeah, there's nothing wrong with it. As a kid, you found it interesting. Yeah. And the truth is, this is the first one that got a lot of attention. Yeah, it got huge
attention. But before them, there were you know, really is right after World War Two, there was a wave of UFO sightings, right, but they were different, Like I think, if I remember correctly, the very first story of someone going up in the UFO um it was right after, you know, right months after the war. And at the time there's one theory that there is all these masks UFO sightings because people are scared of nuclear bombs and because which they were new, you know, they're scared of nuclear
war arm again. And so at the time, immediately after the war, the all the story as I know of of people encountering aliens in person, you know, were that the aliens were friendly and that they look like people. So like there's a story where someone says they got invited into a spaceship and they went up and the people said they were from Venus, and they like went there and flew around and it was like and they looked like people, you know, humans, and it was like a party, and they
came back home and you know whatever told tell those story. And then but the Betty and Barney Hill story, these aliens were vicious and I mean hell, I mean, this is creatures from hell and um. And they were the first ones, as far as I know of, to tell that story, which is the story that dominated in the and when we were young in the nineteen eighties, and obviously this was a huge story in the sixties and say seventies. It must have probably faded away and then was revived by different
people, I guess when we were teenagers or whatever. Well, look, I'm at jstr dot org just to take a look at a piece on this particular information, and I'll just read from the abstract real fast. I'll put this link in the chat room also, But this is an interesting attempt to do an academic job on collecting the information. First person reports is from the
abstract, and I'll post that in just a second. First person reports of abductions by UFO occupants have grown in number during the past few years and constitute an unusually well structured legend type. These accounts share many motives with legends of supernatural encounters and otherworldly journeys, but reconcile the fantastic elements with a supposedly alien
technology to settle comfortably among the UFO lore. Now, let me pause for a second to remember that we were also confronted with those talk shows showing us you know, yes, I was abducted this and that, but also cattle mutilations. That was a big thing. I don't hear about those anymore, but seemingly strange cattle mutilations, where like all the blood had been And I know you and I were probably reading the same things as kids. It was
everywhere in the seventies and eighties, anyway. The Journal of American Folklore, the quarterly journal of American Folklore Society since the society's founding in eighteen eighty eight, publishes scholarly articles, essays, notes, and commentaries directed to a wide audience, as well as separate sections devoted to reviews, of books. Okay,
this is about the journal that this is printed in. I'm skipping around a bit, but I find this interesting that there are people talking about this, and there are actually attempts to study this from an academic point of view, to collect them together, because there are common elements that start emerging. And it is highly suspect in my mind that this stuff starts happen a lot right around World War Two, the conclusion of World War Two, where the
beginning of the Cold War is happening. So a paranoia is there. Now. I'm not saying that you know, Russians or Aliens or anything, but an outside threat that could emerge from the sky. Right, we had been treated to the air raid kind of concept, the fact that there was that civil air defense, right and all that kind of stuff. You know, on the West coast they talked about, you know, turning out the lights
and stuff. World War two. Again, this is before our era, so it's a different time to put it in context when this gets started. But it didn't stop for quite a long time. This continued on and on, many people reporting they had been abducted, this and that, and then of course you can get into the arguments about false memory syndrome, because we also got treated to the descriptions about how these people would go to psychiatrists,
psychologists and they would have to get it out of them under hypnosis. They would find out about the aliens. But a consistent thing was happening there with the loss of time. All that stuff all comes in this package, so it's not just a matter of, Hey, the aliens came and grabbed me and stuck something up my butt. And the story although anal probing another big joke, right, Mike, That's always been one of the big jokes. Did they did they antally probia? You know, the first South Park episode
to ever air involves aliens probing Cartman. I'm just saying it becomes a pop culture and a subculture mythos that has some consistent elements to it. And I just put the journal article in the live chat room at o'chelly dot com. Sorry, I just wanted to fill that all in. What are your thoughts though, perfect Well, as far as I'm concerned, there's there's a famous psychiatrist call Young and you know, I think, I mean he was one
of the big most important psychiatrists of the twentieth century. He came up with the idea of a collective unconscious like that was a I think he coined that phrase. But he wrote a book I'm not I'm trying to find when it was, maybe in the fifties, probably in the fifties, but about the UFOs, and it was called flying saucers. That's what they were in the
forties, flying saucers. And his whole theory was that people were just so disturbed by World War two and and and the atomic bomb that what they were doing, and the loss of faith in religion because of everything that happened. I suppose some people lost faith in society and just you know, all kinds of things, and that some of these people Dufo and the alien could save
us, you know, yeah, I mean. And there's entire movies like The Day the Earth Stood Still, which is one of the biggest movies about science fiction movies in nineteen fifties. The whole story is this demand comes in a flying saucer parts in front of Washington, d C. Comes out, and the army comes around. I think they try to shoot him and they fail at that, and it's all about him telling him, you're gonna blow up the world if you keep doing this crap, and maybe it would.
You know, it's a good maybe. You know, if only that was real, you know that was a real thing, someone could come down and do that. Well, and this goes in that's a movie, well true, true, look, and this goes in all different directions, Mike, because I think the idea of the fear of this, you know, the great communist threat, the invisible enemy that you got to worry about, and the fact that people were taught to look overhead and be afraid and duck and
cover, be ready for the weapons. Certainly, that's another thing that people have brought into play here where it's like, maybe they could be the great Savior. Of course they would be technologically more advanced, they might be more intelligent. If they're that intelligent, maybe they don't want to bother with us, you know, because we're still savage animals all that. Okay, I
get that. And then we get into you know, stuff like Project Blue Beam, where you know, people have claimed that one day they were going to conduct an alien invasion, right, but a fake one. They were going to create a fake alien invasion to get the whole world to comply. Some people have looked at this as a way to unify humanity. Even see now I can get right in the star Trek if I want to gene Roddenberry's overall vision of a unified Earth. Now, some people look at that as
oh, that's a new world order. But other people say, once we learned that there were other creatures out there, other planets, we kind of figure out that, hey, you know what, we're actually all together on this one planet. Maybe we should work together more, you know, and worry about those guys out there, because we have no idea where they're coming from. But at least we can speak common languages here. At least we're the same kind of animals and creatures here. Who knows what the hell's out
there? Maybe for our own defense, and again that was another reason to justify space for us. But I'm saying this goes all over the place. I don't know too many people that thought about it as as a kid thinking about it, Mike, I don't remember people that thought about the aliens as these saviors that we're going to show up. I know some movies did that and whatnot, But mostly I saw people be more afraid, you know,
what would happen. They could take us out Mars attacked, they think is right after World War I think the belief and the aliens or what they are changes over time. And I think his argument that people thought that they could be good and saviors, I think that was actually commonplace right after World War Two. That might have been a weird idea then, but I think as the times change, yeas the time change is it gets people become more scared
of them, people adapted into different things. I mean to think back to War the World's Right, where people did actually panic a little bit after that radio broadcast. That's you know what, fifteen years before the end of World War two, right that that was going on, and people bought it. Some people did. People were legitimately afraid, thinking this was really happening. So you know what I'm saying, And generally speaking, when you look at
these movies, you know it is more of the Twilight Zone thing. Hey we're here to serve man. Yeah, it's a cookbook, you know what I'm saying. I mean, from the Twilight Zone onto Hey, maybe the aliens are good friends. Oh no, they're fattening us up because they're going to eat us. Some movies they want to take all our water. Somebody mentioned in the chat room, by the way, that Reticuli was also the star solar system in the original Alien movie that Ridley Scott used in the first
movie in nineteen seventy nine. It was paying homage to the first UFO stories. Okay, this is what they say here, I'm reading from the chat room. The jet age began in nineteen forty seven. This was probably a reason for sightings. Jet jets were sci fi. Yeah, we'll think about that too, Mike, Right, jet engines, the incredible speed at which they were able to fly. If nobody ever saw one of those before.
I know that when an occasional jet ended up in the German Luftwaff mixed in with their formations, it freaked out some of our guys that were flying Mustangs, right, so you know, and those are pilots used to seeing things in the air. When the guy on the ground sees this thing whippy real fast, it might have seemed like, oh my god, that's something like totally alien because we only had planes for thirty forty years before that, right,
So you know what I'm saying. There's a lot of different ways to break this down. Um, but the alien abduction thing I always thought was a little different. And of course, yes, we can get into the psychology of false memory syndrome and Dunna DA and how much manipulation under hypnosis actually takes place. And then again, maybe there were some people that were just seeking attention that you know, we're almost like you know, Jerry Springer,
they didn't quite let people beat each other up on TV yet. So this is the way you got on TV from the trailer park back then. Uh, stuff like that, Mike, right, I mean all of this is part of this discussion. Meanwhile, we started with congressional hearings and now we're onto this. But well, no, I mean it is. Yeah, I mean I'll connected to congressional hearings. So here's a little fat fact. I'm going got a list of them to Yeah, I haven't thought of it
this stuff in so long. I was buying time. I was buying time. There was stuff up, but I was just saying I was buying time for you to go look stuff up. That was part of what I was just doing. Go ahead, So yeah, nineteen there's there's several she really key incidents. Is that happened in nineteen forty six nineteen forty seven. Um, and the one else talking about the guy goes up in the ship and
comes down to go to Venus. That's when that happened. But there was interested here's a here's the connection of someone we we your listeners may know of the Murray Island incident that was in nineteen forty seven. Yeah, yeah, yeah, okay, okay, So you're gonna tell that whole story, not the whole thing, I just but that that involved that's in Washington State. Um, and that's the one with Fred Christen and who later becomes a suspect
or figure of interest in the Kenny sass nation during the Garrison investigation. But the funny thing he was a he was investigating the thing and he claimed that men in black home to stop investigating. So he's the guy, this Fred Chrisman, who invented the men in black story. He's the first guy to
come out with the story about these mysterious men in black. And again that's a whole other area of folklore where men and black don't just show up because of aliens, by the way, and they don't look like Will Smith just saying okay, but they show up and they're weird, not even fully human in a lot of accounts, right, They're very strange. You have this other problem with time dilation. People lose time. People they can't identify them. They seem to be I'm not sure what the guy looked like. They
all look the same, and they were weird. They there was noises I heard, and they acted very strangely, and they seemed to disappear as soon as they appeared. They didn't drive away. You know, all kinds of weird stuff like that, right, I mean in these accounts over the years, yep. And I'm reading about the Murray Island, isn't it says that
that is where the term flying saucer was coined. So this guy, Raymond what's his name, Raymond All, Kenneth Arnold, Kenneth Arnold, Yeah, he claimed he saw a saucer flying past Mount Rainier at twelve hundred miles an hour and that it opened up and it began to eject thousands of That doesn't
really understand. It doesn't make sense to me. What seemed like thousands of newspapers from from spewing out outside of it, and it came down to the earth and it turned out their pieces the metal that resembled rocks, and he was in a boat, just the guy that saw this, and the rocks hit his boat and killed a dog. And Fred chris this is what Fred Chrisman investigated this. This is the Murray Island. It's yeah no I And by the way, if somebody said uh in the chat room, Fred Krisman
was the man in black, I didn't say that. What I what I said was that Chrisman invented that story. Let me read to you from something I have here though, if you don't mind, again just to add to this because on muck rock, okay, muck rock dot com, and I put the again the link in the chat room at o'chelly dot com. I'll
try and include this stuff with the show notes. But there's some interesting stuff here with snippets of documents from this article, which is titled FBI's Real life quote x files end quote documents strange connection between UFOs and the jfk assassination. Okay, a rare glimpse inside bureau's security quote in Security Matter x end quote files show the investigation of Fred Lee Chrisman and his tales of flying saucers. Okay, a version of This article appeared on Glamor Disclosure. Okay, years
ago, I heard rumors about this is from that article. Years ago. I heard rumors about some of the FBI's older files, and the author here is Emma North hyphen best older files which were curiously labeled smash X or Security Matter X. Like the X files, these dealt with some strange topics. The two examples I was told about where FBO were UFI excuse me, UFOs and l Ron Hubbard. This, of course was too strange or not file a Foyer request for but the FBI denied being able to find the records for
obvious reasons. I wasn't eager to beget a big fight over the existence of secret files on alien invasions based on a rumors, so I took a different route, requesting the FBI file for one of the people involved in a lot of strange stories, including the Morey Island incident cited as an example of one of the SMX files and get paid off. Now there's a snippet of a
memorandum here in the article, and I'll go back to it. The man's name was Fred Lee Chrisman, and he's every bit as weird a character from The X Files. Throughout his life, Chrisman appeared in at least half a dozen conspiracy theories and stories of high weirdness. One of his earliest strange stories apparently involved freeing himself from a cave in Burma during World War Two, where he was held by quote evil underground creatures end quote. From there, the
stories around him just get stranger. The story of Chrisman and Security Matter X begins with the aforementioned Morey Island incident and alleged UFOs citing and crash that occurred
about a month before the events at Roswell. According to various versions of the legend, Morey Island involved one or more UFOs that either dropped something or disintegrated, the fragments of which damaged Chrisman's boat, killed a dog just like Mike said, and an in parentheses, according to some versions and parentheses, hurt someone. Subsequently, Chrisman and Harold Doll, the other apparent witness, were approached by quote men in black end quote, one of the instances that helped
popularize the legend. The story then gained additional coverage when a government plane crashed a plane which was said to be carrying fragments from the Morey Island incident. The FBI file on Chrisman indicates that the bureau quickly determined the matter was a hoax, though the file is careful to note that Doll quote did not admit that his story was a hoax, but only stated that if questioned by the authorities, he was going to say it was a hoax because he did not
want any further trouble over the matter. End quote. Okay. And then there's a snippet from a file here BI Seattle eight Dash fourteen forty seven, which is the date and anyway, five fifteen pm. Here's what this snippet shows. Flying discs cited by Fred Chrisman and Harold A. Doll, Tacoma, Washington, smx Rurtel instance date. Okay, I don't know what that
means exactly. Please be advised that Doll did not admit to Smith that his story was a hoax, but only stated that if questioned by authorities, he was going to say it was a hoax because he did not want any further trouble over the matter. Complete report now en route to Bureau AMSD, which indicates probably Chrisman or Doll made the anonymous phone call in the hope of building up their story through publicity to a point where they could make a profitable deal
with Fantasy Magazine, Chicago, Illinois. Doll and Chrisman will not be reinterviewed unless advised to the and then something is crossed out here contrary by the Bureau. Willcox a and hold please okay. The next portion of the article reads, the air Force denied responsibility for the sightings and asserted there were no credible reports of flying discs in the area. The FBI's investigation agreed with this and concluded that the plane was definitely not carrying parts of a disc. That's about
the plane crash. The memo sighted above as labeled copies destroyed and although it was written the same day of the memo stating that Doll did not admit the matter was a hoax, and attached memo states that both Doll and Chrisman admitted
there were no discs. According to this memo, the materials found by Chrisman and Doll were simply quote strange rock formations end quote, they found in a gravel pit on Morey Island, and that Dal wrote a false letter claiming the material came from a flying disc and that they have been paid to say as much. This version of events is also memorialized in a statement signed by Chrisman and given to the FBI. Again, I'll give you the link to this
in the live chat room at o'chelly dot com. There's more in the article. But I find this interesting, Okay, that this is what goes down here. And of course Chrisman does have a fascinating history JFK assassination and otherwise of making some extraordinary claims. But again, often we find that those claims are not easily backed by this little troublesome thing called evidence. M Mike.
So, I know, I probably just bored you to death with that and took up a bunch of time, but I thought it was good for the context that you're talking about. That's one problem I have with these Almost all these characters that tell these stories. Betty and Barney Hill are an exception, but almost all of them have some strange background that defense industry. Yeah, background in the defense industry, some weird angle where they're trying to make money
with it. There's only yeah, there's only like a couple of them that are like just legitimate, everyday people that if you don't, you know, you track them down and you find out, like you said, they're connected to the defense industry, They're connected to you know, other weird circumstances. You know, turns out the same guy that says he was abducted also got knocked down by Bigfoot. You know, I mean, weird stuff all the time with these things, and this is why I don't usually cover it on
the show. To be honest with you, I don't cover much of this stuff. Occasionally I'll get into it, but I don't cover it on the show because most of the time I find it to be silly. You know, it's weird. You know, Guy Banister has tied to that Morey Island thing too, because I think it was actually well, he was he had been part of that investigation somehow. I memory is not serving me as to exactly how he was, right, but Guy Banister was somehow tied to that
investigation. I mean, he might have just been in charge of some agent that was dispatched to do something or whatever, because remember he had been an FBI agent out of Chicago, right. So you know, I'm just saying weird stuff goes on with a lot of these cases. And for a little while there were people popping up all over the place. You know, they would lose track of time and then uh, you know, they disappeared for
two days. And I thought a lot of times it was you know, some old, good old boy trying to cover up the fact that he had been running around on his wife, you know, got drunk and lost track of days and shows up two days later. Well, honey, I couldn't have made it home, buddy. I'm just repeat about the Crisman guy. Yeah, someone's made a cartoon comedy out of him. Yeah, okay,
where's that at. It's called Fred Crisman Cave of the Space Nazis. Okay, well, it's the description of it said, I have to watch it, but it's is this. The first scene sees Fred Crisman broadcrafting from radio. He tells his listeners he was not involved in Kenny assassination, saying I could never have performed such a stunt alone. Well, okay, he says, this is a real thing, act that the earth from aliens. You doubt me if you don't believe that I protected the world from the aliens.
And I said, we ask you where are they. I don't see any here. You're welcome. Yeah, okay, And I just went over to IMDb really quick to check this out because IMB's a good resource. And um yeah, Fred Chrisman volume War apparently Cave of the Space Nazis uh is a let's see what can we get the synopsis here? Um, let's see writers direct director is uh Brian Shickley, which I think somehow I run across him before any There's a whole cast and crew and it's apparently a short animation starring
a character made fashioned after Fred Chrisman. I can't even imagine what they I did not know that they made. This stuff apparently was made in twenty twenty two, by the way, so people are still interested in this. M Let's see here's his Wikipedia page film Freeway. I'm looking to see if I can get a quick synopsis, like a really good one. Space Nazis written by blah blah blah. Okay, let's see if this gives me a good
quick synopsis. Joseph's Midwest Weird Fast Shorts reviews. Okay, here's a review of it. Anyway, it doesn't matter. That's that whole thing that was mentioned in that article previous that he had made a claim that he escaped from you know, the evil creatures role they get captive, the evil aliens that were from what do you say Venus? Was it Venus? Mike, Kay, I can't remember. It doesn't matter, you know what, because I mean it was Venus was another story I was talking about? Well was that
another I'm sorry I might have mixed it. Anyway, They were from another planet and they held him, capped him in a cave. But again, he's also tied to some pretty fantastical stories regarding the Kennedy assassination. I don't know how anybody takes a guy like this seriously, but what they do, Uh, is he somebody that was clearly involved with some disinformation agents? I think so, And I think this is part of the fun and games that
goes on. Plus, you know, don't forget what was the primary way that they used to criticize Warren Commission critics, right, and people that were like when I first started to really look into the Kennedy assassination, right, I was still a teenager. Mike. Were you looking into it back then? By the way, as a teenager? Uh? Thirteen? Okay, So you started with a casual interest. You and I really parallel universe here, You and I could have hung out, because I'm telling you this is
when I started to look at it. And in nineteen eighty eight, let me get this straight, I guess I'm sixteen and nineteen. When at the age of sixteen is when I got serious around the twenty fifth anniversary, because there was stuff on TV, and there was stuff on the radio, and there was just a lot of information out there in magazines, and I got
really into it. So that's when I got in. When I got in though, one of the main attacks, and for probably a decade and a half until after Oliver Stone's film had set in and we got the records, review board and stuff. What was one of the main things that always came up, right, Oh, you believe in that Kennedy JFK conspiracy stuff? Right like on the X Files. Oh yeah, yeah, there you go,
Molder, You're on the Grassy Knoll again, right. What they used to say to us is, well, you believe that Kennedy wasn't killed by Oswald? I bet you believe in what little Green men. They always put the aliens right along with kenn It's like I didn't bring up aliens I'm talking about you know, actually, yeah, you're one of those wacky people.
Isn't that funny that it seems like that was the design, Just like when we saw the memo where you know, stop calling these people Warren Commission critics start calling them conspiracy theorists to undermine the fact that they don't have any of the facts. That's what you're supposed to do. That was the directions given to the media. You remember that document, I'm sure, yeah, yeah.
So what I'm saying is is that the nomenclature shifts around, the phrasing and the labeling shifts around, and this is the way things are done. This is the business of propaganda in the modern age. They attached labels to you, and those labels imply connections to other things. And therefore, guess what you're this you're now that you know, if you're a liberal in certain
circles, then you're the root of all evil. If you're against Joe Biden and you're complaining about him, you must be a Trumper, and therefore your somebody who's against this and against that, and you believe they make all sorts of assertions off of a very simple jumping off point and then attach you to eighteen different things. And one wonders why that formula is exactly the same. I don't wonder. I see it. People are given those marching orders.
You're told you're directed, You're fed that information constantly, they repeated enough, and they tell you if this, then that if you believe that Kennedy wasn't killed by Oswald like our good and proper government told us, then you believe in little green men. Okay, then you don't believe in this. You are un American. If you think that there's any question about the you know, nineteen angry guys with boxcutters taken down two buildings in New York City.
If you question that, you're unpatriotic, you hate America. They always do this mike where they attach some other thing that may not necessarily be true. I gotta tell you, I stand in a position of saying to myself that realistically, there is very likely other life in the universe. Right, just mathematically, it makes sense to me that there is other life in the universe besides this one little ball that we're on. And yes, I do think the Earth's round, not flat. Let's not go there, But forget if
it's a ball, let's just call it a rock, Mike. We're all on this rock here. I think there's life elsewhere. Now. Do I think they're coming down and visiting people and rectally examining us? And not necessarily do I think they've come down to mutilate cows and they've come to, I don't know, get the cream of the crop to examine and figure out how human beings work. Realistically, would erase of alien do that? They might? They might look at us as zoological animals. That's a possibility. It
is a possibility, But has it actually been happening? Are the people's stories that tell it true. I'll tell you another thing, um an interesting theory that comes up, and I'm gonna throw this at you, and then I'm gonna let you run with whatever it is you want. And I think we'll probably, you know, either close this out or go to a break real quick and give people our final thoughts after it, because we probably exhausted everything
you wanted to talk about with food for thought. I knew some people that they describe certain things that were in their memories, and I feel like they did describe that this this weird space that your memory can get into when you've been anesthetized and you're in Like, I've had a couple of surgeries. Have you ever woken up during a surgery? Mike had a surgery where you woke up? No? No, okay, okay, I have, and I've had surgeries where, believe me, it's just like, wait a minute,
what happened? I blinked, and I don't realize that. You know, I've been under anesthesia for eight hours, right, or three four hours whatever it was, you know, like snap of the fingers. I'm just waking back up. Like when I had my throat surgery. I remember them starting the count on the anesthesia and we got all the way to one. We was counting backwards from ten. They were a little surprised that we got to
one. But the next thing I knew, I was in my room, despite the fact that I was told that I had been awake previous to that and taking some actions. Actually I struck a nurse coming out of anesthesia because I felt as though I was threatened. I don't recall any of that, but I do recall coming partially conscious during anesthesia before them, and you could
see things in a lot of weird ways. You might see people with big blurry heads, you know, and if they've got white masks and white hats on and stuff like that, maybe the whole head looks pretty white or gray, blurry gray. It could seem like that. And some of those experiences
sound like something like that is in their memories one way or another. But why in the hell would you know, Like some of the people that we've seen them abduct, like, I don't know the background on the Bill and oh my god, Bill and Betty was it that we were talking about before. I don't know Betty and Barney. I'm sorry, Betty and Barney.
I don't know their backgrounds. But some of the people that I used to see on TV, I would always look at them and say, if I were an alien to come down, I would not pick these people to examine. They don't seem to be what would be interesting about them to examine them. They're not smart, they're not pretty, they're not anything. They're not exceptional that you can tell that right away, Like, what would an alien want with these people? Anyways, I'm just saying it's a very weird subject
interesting. And here's the thing I'm very skeptical of most people's stories, but I do believe there's life out there. Not sure if they're aintually probing us. Okay, I'm not sure if I buy most of the stories, famous or not so famous. But it is an interesting phenomena and it has been consistent for well quite a while. I think these things did exist before World War Two, but I think in the age of mass media, it's the awareness of it has grown just like anything else, and it did grow during
that time period. I think because as technology has emerged too, that has also sort of created shock among people. So I think all of those things culminate together to create what, in some cases is a mass delusion. And yet you know, there's stuff like the incident over Phoenix, Arizona, and there were incidents over cities in Mexico where thousands of people witnessed some pretty interesting things in the sky. You know, some of the triangles, the weird
formations. I mean, I'm sure you've seen some of those right where. There's actually videos now that have emerged to show some of these mass sightings that clearly occurred. They don't look normal, they don't appear to be airplanes of any kind. Strange things have happened, and can we explain it all or could we solve it all? Today? Absolutely not. Does our government really
know what the hell is going on? I don't know. Is it possible they don't have a clue and they just want to keep us busy with anything else so that we don't realize that they've got zero clue as to what's actually going on over our heads. Maybe they are just covering their incompetence with anything at all that will grab your attention. I don't know, Mike, I just don't know. So I'm skeptical. I believe there's probably other life.
Probably there have been alien vehicles here. Probably there are still. I would think that some of them might have thought of something as simple as Star Trek did with the cloaking technology at some point. So most of the time they're not seen. But then again I don't know. And by the way,
how many people actually look up at the sky anymore? That was a question I had the other day on Union of the Unwanted, when somebody brought up the aliens and stuff, and I said, well, you know, as far as being a kid, I remember again you and I being kids at about the same time, Mike, we might look up at the sky, we might take the time to do that. We might hear a noise over
our heads and look up. But nowadays so many kids are looking down at these little stupid rectangles and stupid phones, you know, smartphones, whatever, their final slabs, tablets, you name it that. You know, even if there was aliens flying over most kids heads, would they notice it. They have every opportunity to photograph it, because almost everybody you know has access to some sort of small camera that they could put right in their pockets via
these smartphones, at least in North America. And yet would they ever actually get photographed normally? Who knows. Maybe a lot of things have gone buy overhead and nobody's taken notice of it, much like keem trails, you know. Anyways, Mike, I know I just said a whole bunch of crazy stuff. But what are your thoughts. Should we take a break real fast and give people a final synopsis on this or what I could sum it up and close close it out pretty easy? Well, whatever you want to do,
Mike, you know what, it's it's your time. We haven't quite gone an hour yet, or we have gone about an hour, so I don't know. Maybe maybe you're sick of hearing my voice by now. I wouldn't blame you, but no, I just I don't have but one little
thing to add. That's all. Well, look, let let's just let's just go to a quick break real fast and uh and and let's get ourselves organized and give people a tie a bow on this little present, this interesting discussion, because I don't think I've ever sat here and talked to you about stuff like UFOs before for a full hour, and I never asked you about Star Trek. So you know what, we'll just take a quick short break here on the Ocelly Effect. Mike Swanson and myself will be back right after
this revelation through conversation. Wall Street, Reindow dot Gold, Silver, the stock market, Wall Street, Window dot dot Perhaps you're invested deeply, perhaps you're not in deep enough. Maybe you're thinking about getting started Wall Street, Windows dot com, do dot com. Michael Swanson, the brilliant author of the War State, understood these trends professionally for many years, and now he gives you the benefit of his knowledge. Wall Street, Streetdow dot do go
there, now go there, now go there. Now this is James Gorbatt Korba Report dot com and you're listening to the Ocelly Affected Ocelly dot Com. Go ahead, colle in the truth about the Java assassination. Right, Well, what do you want to know Judie Baker's wild claim Oswald girlfriend who knew Ruby and Barry dancer weapons? Really? I imagine I could claim I have four wheels. It doesn't make me a wagon. But okay, Oswald was on the Jibe and m time prevent the murder of John Kennedy. Come on,
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the many, many fantastic claims Judith Arry Baker in her own words. A great information you're listening to the Ochelli dot Com Radio network. Do you like history, Real history that you were never taught in schools? Why the Vietnam War Nuclear Moms in nation Building in Southeast Asia by author Mike Swanson, with new documentation never seen before, felli open your eyes to events that led up to this. Why the Vietnam War Nuclear Moms in Nation Building in Southeast Asia
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literally aarone was just sneel. Oh she goes up on a throne and crass and they wiped her fat butt revelation through conversation, final segment of the Ocelli Effect Tonight here on a Thursday with my friend Mike Swanson, who I'm more than happy to point you to Wall Street Window dot com being the no go over there. Sign up with the free newsletter. Also read his books now.
He's written a bunch of them, interesting history of Danville, Virginia, which I don't usually promote some stuff on finance, but the two I do promote, The War State, fascinating essential piece of reading. And I may indeed have a copy or two of that with me when I go to Dallas, along with copies of Why the Vietnam War when I go to Dallas, And who knows, maybe we'll give away one or two on the show before
I go, because I think you guys need to read that. That's the first in a series of at least three or potentially three volumes on the Vietnam conflict, and it is a unique piece of work from a unique author. Michael Swanson. Okay, now that I've done the obligatory promos and all that, Mike, I gotta say I did not expect to have an alien conversation with you, or a UAP or UFO conversation with you. I wonder what
you think about all this stuff really, because we never discuss it. I guess you know, again, since you don't believe Oswald did it, necessarily, you must believe in little green men, right, Mike. I mean I brought that up. We talked about the evolution, the weird connections. You know. One last thing I'll mentioned before I let you tie a bow on this, Mike, if you don't mind, is remember the Majestic twelve nonsense that went on in the JFK research community. You know, JFK was
killed because he was going to disclose that there were aliens. I mean, I don't know how stupid you had to be to buy that one. I mean, they had some fake documents rolling around that were clearly blatantly fake. You know what I'm saying. Do you remember that stuff rolling around when it
was twelve. Yeah, I mean, what the hell you know? Anyway, But there is this real world connection with chrisman and and Banister being tied to the Moray Islands deal, which, again according to uh well, according to muck Rock, and according to many analysts, was a complete fraudulent fake thing. The FBI has memos on it. I don't know how I feel about Morey Island or many of these other alleged incidents, but I'm sure sometimes
there have been weird things that can't be explained that have happened. Again, Larry Hancocks laid out a few interesting things in that book Unidentified that have happened at military installations and in interactions with military personnel and the security state's reaction to it. That is some fascinating reading. But outside of that, out in the weirdness and the videos that we've seen released in the past couple of years, I don't know, man, I still remain kind of unconvinced in any
direction as to what's actually happening regarding all of this. Uh, what are your what's your old world take? Well, I'm very skeptical of all these stories, and but I just say I drop I've dropped a link in the chat to hit hitting Atism session done at Barney Hill, and I just say, like the stories of people being abducted and all that stuff, this is the first story. All the other stories are copies of what happened to Barney Hill. Where is that? Where's that link in the chat? Mike,
I don't see it. Uh, Barney Hill hit No session, Okay, because I don't see it in the Uh oh wait a minute, there there it is, Okay, it's a video video vide okay. So in the live chat room at shelly dot com there's a video link there which looks like a family picture and that's apparently the one with the hip. Yeah, that's them and with their dog. And this is a hypno session. So anyone, you know, if you put that in the show notes, people can
listen to it judge for themselves. I'm highly skeptical of them. That said. People making YouTube comments are not they say, he screams at the nine minute thirty mark, and it gave the person goose bumps. It must be real. Anytime you're hear an abduptee screaming in agony during hypnotic regression, you get chills on your spine when you do. You know it's real. So some these people making these comments like that they're convinced, but you can listen
to it and judge for yourself. Well, I say, you know, look, obviously you judged all these things for yourselves. I mean I am not again not claiming to know a damn thing about it, right. I mean, you know, you look back at some of the official stuff because somebody said, Hey, whether other interviews conducted, I'm not sure. I'm looking at an obituary and a write up at the University of New Hampshire again where I told you some of the papers and artifacts from them are stored there
at the university because Betty was apparently an alumni of that university. It also says she was a social worker, etc. I mean, these are interesting, regular people. I don't think they really were out there seeking a lot of like notoriety, unlike some of the people I was talking about that were on the Horaldo Shows and stuff like that. Later who I think, you know, became a queen and king for a day, you know what I'm saying. Like they got on TV and that was their big, their big
moment, you know, a lot of things are possible. A lot of things are possible, And I mean, what what what can I say? Uh, it's it's a strange thing. And who knows that we'll be able to track any of that down? Uh, you know personally, I mean, and it is weird watching Congress have hearings about it. And again, our our mutual friend Larry Hancock is involved in a very serious study of you know, these things that have been witnessed and accounted for by the military all
the way up to the nineteen seventies. So maybe I should ask Larry next time I have him on in a couple of weeks about about what he thinks about this, you know, the abductions and stuff. I'm sure that that's not the area that his people are working on, but what the hell I can ask him about it anyway, right, Oh sure, And uh, look, I'm open to any kind of discussion. And this is definitely a weird one, Mike. I didn't expect, like I said to uh,
to have this conversation with you. But what the hell I've take can you overtime? And I've taken all you people over time tonight on the o'ceelly effect. But again, go over to Wall Street Window dot com. I'm sure Mike won't be writing about aliens unless something comes out in these hearings, in
which case he might report about it on his news feed. But other than that, Mike, I don't see articles on aliens coming up in your near future or UAPs or UFOs or the X files unless or something I don't know, I mean, tell me, I hope not, because then something crazy is happening. Not either that or Project Blue Beam, which is something we could discuss one day where people told me they were going to fake an alien invasion and all that, uh, and it was definitely coming, and it
was supposed to have come in twenty twelve. They were going to do it, you know, alongside of the mind calendar, right and all that. Anyway, look, I know I've had a little fun and I've laughed a few times, but I had a great conversation with Mike Swanson, and I hope you guys enjoyed it. Thanks Mike dig it. Anyways, I am merely Ocelly and all of you are indeed the effect. Get involved at ocelly
dot com and again in on the the Swag program over there. I'm not selling anything, but I've got stuff to thank you for being a supporter if you chip in and support and we could use it over at o'ceelly dot com to keep things rolling. So I am o'celly and you are all indeed the effect tonight