The Ochelli Effect 7-15-2025 Larry Hancock

Of course, go to larrydash Hancock dot com. If you have listened to my show before, you're familiar, and you should be familiar with the fact that I highly recommend all of his books. But gotta tell you a special place for not only things like in Denial and I don't know, Creating Chaos and a few other things that are oh so oh maybe not relevant to today's news, right chuck, he said sarcastically as I read my own

parenthetical commentary. The thing is this, Larry's got a lot to say, and he's usually ahead of the curve, and I love that. Plus he's a responsible historian and if you don't know it, you need to know it, So go get the books. The Oswald Puzzle is the latest and the one that I highly recommend in the future. I might want to talk to Larry about Joean Mellon a little, but I did a two part tribute to

her already on this show, so not today. We have other things in the news, and indeed I'm going to get to it and again go to larrydash Hancock dot com and any one of Larry's books you don't already have, go get it. Anyhow, back to the subject at hand. The fact is I had Jefferson Morley on this show long time ago, and I used to follow them when all I was doing was reading things like Deep Politics Quarterly and gee, what was that other thing, the Crosswinds

or whatever? I forget what it was called. And you know different magazines out there, zines, in general newsletters, etc. Email chains. You know, was even on the Vince Landria email chain for a minute, although my name wasn't on it. It was actually somebody else's and I ended up inheriting it.

Strange story there, Maybe someday I'll tell it. But the point is I've been involved in the community a long time and one of the things that we learned very early on was that there was this guy, George Joannides who got sent to the hsca as a liaison from the CIA. Why because they needed one, They needed to communicate with the agency during the investigation. I'm speaking in shorthand. If you're not a JFK person, you might not be savvy on this, but trust me, you might get that

way because it's been in the news. Anyway, back to it. Jefferson Morley, who was a journalist and still is a journalist of sorts, but is also now the I think he's the vice chair of the Mary Farrell Foundation, et cetera, et cetera. Anyway, Jeff is a published author, highly respected in the community, et cetera. But he sued the CIA and most famously was turned down on his last go round by Brett Kavanaugh. Even you know the guy who's on the Supreme Court. Now, yeah, that Trump judge said, now,

you're not getting the CIA files on this guy. Joe Needes, who was the liaison to the HSCA, who was involved in the DRE, who was maybe privy to some things about Oswald, et cetera, et cetera. Big mess, big lies, lot of stuff there. We in the community knew that Jeff was right, but he kept suing the CIA, trying to get him to just give over their documentations, whatever is left of it, and they wouldn't budge, and he kept going to court, and kept going to court, and

kept going to court. And now recent transparencies allegedly have finally freed the Joe and Edes files. Now are they all of them? Are they part of them? Are they

more than what we had before? Are they a bit beyond the bootleg bits that did float around when people got a hold of documents they weren't supposed to, not because they were international spies or anything, but because it was such a nightmare at NARA or the National Archives that sometimes you got a hold of things you weren't supposed to do, and also they changed the rules about

things you were supposed to get hold of it. At one point, indeed, you didn't know if you had declassified or classified documentation in your hand at a certain point in JFK research history. But put all that confusion aside,

we may have some clarity. We may have a new revelation and confirmation of what it is we've suspected for a long time, what it is that Jeff Morley has said for a long time, and what it is that CIA and the government in general has denied and obfuscated and completely obstructed about regarding freedom of information and this character George, Joe, and Ed's now Larry. That is my quick summary, and I'm trying to be as objective as possible here. But the fact is the government lied to us.

We knew they lied to us because we knew about Joe and Eades, but we didn't have the files to confirm certain things. And Jeff was the crusader, was the guy who in the government was going after it seemingly as a journalist slash author slash researcher for years and years. I mean indeed I had him on after the case was virtually dead but then resurrected once again in twenty

fourteen or fifteen somewhere in there. So ten years ago, I'm talking to Jeff about a case he had already been at for a while, and yeah, we knew that this was what it was. But now we've got some new documentation and it has made some headlines. So I just want to throw it on the table. Maybe I'm all wet regarding this, right they used to use that phrase, you're all wet, like you don't know what you talking about. I don't know how you're you're wet and confused at

the same time. But then again, if I think back to parties as a teenager, I could I can imagine that. But anyway, Larry, and you've been in the military, So anyhow, what are we talking about here? I mean, the Joe Needy stuff is finally, at least in part release, do we do we have what Jeff was suing for for years? And in that case, do we end up with a big yawn because we knew all this or is there something new in it? Is there? I don't know. There's a lot to be said and a lot to be

looked at. And quite honestly, I haven't done my own analysis of this yet, so I'm not going to make any solid declaration here, but maybe you could. What have you seen?

of a negative template. You know, if somebody is trying to hide something from you, and somebody is smart and somebody has a lot of control, they will mean, they will destroy things, they'll move things around. And if you if you expect to find something that the CIA has been hiding from you since nineteen sixty three, and something that's so explosive that they chose to do that for the Warrant Commission and the House Select Committee and everybody.

You know, it's got to be significant enough, so it creates a whole Are you going to find that? You know?

It was one of those you know, Dallas sixty three things he did and I'm sure you know what I'm talking about, where he did a series of him and they were they were kind of similar, but they picked up little bits of things and then he answered questions and he always had way more to say than he

had time. But Peter Dell Scott, who is the guy who, by the way, is responsible for the concept of the deep politics and deep state and all of this, whether he wants to be or not, he is, you know that phrase and all that he said at one point. You know, you got to keep in mind another thing about this, which is, you know, you want two pages,

they're gonna dump two thousand on you. Or you want two pages, they're going to hide two thousand and make you fight for each one of those two thousand, so that nineteen hundred and ninety eight of them end up being nothing. And the idea is that through attrition, you'll surrender. And that is a strategy that's also been part of this that I think a lot of researchers never bothered to mention because it you know, it used to be a big gigantic waste of time, paper, energy, money. Okay,

you know you're paying for pages. I mean I remember getting angry, and I've told you this several times. You know, I request and pay for you know, thirty pages, and what I got are ten copies of the same newspaper cutout article that we're in, you know, ten different folders, so therefore at different numbers, but were literally the same repetitive crap that I already had, you know, and I

had a better copy than the congressman did. That kind of thing happened to me, and it happened to a lot of researchers, and it did cause people to say, you know what, there's nothing to see here. There's just a bunch of redundant garbage. And in other cases, when you're trying to pry things out, you'd be confused because you'd get a hold of some things and you'd say to yourself, like I said, with the newspaper articles, why is this classified? This is something that was publicly available.

They stuck it in their workfolder, and therefore it's classified. What a waste of time. So you have this double waste of time thing that also goes in with this regular hiding, destruction moving, you know, claims of ignorance. We can't find it, we don't know where that is, we never heard of that person, et cetera, et cetera. There is a wide array of weapons that are used to keep things away from the public, Am I right or wrong?

have good practices for that, you just be naive. So the fact that they don't have a body of best practices that they can use against us, even if it was just for us, you know, they know how to do this. So first off, you have to accept that. And the sources of things that you're describing are in their Their best practice is manual. You know, trainees get that.

And in what Jeff is pursuing, we have a good reflection of that because we have the We have the CIA fighting Jeff in court for years and years and years over Joinees administrative file. Now this is his personal admin file, what jobs he held, what clearances he got. We have had personal files on Hunt and Morales and

other well known CIA figures for ages. You know, it's not like they have not shared that stuff before I shared them with committees, you know this, So you'd have to say, why in the world, you know, would I have David Phillips adman file or David Morales sadmin file and I don't have you know, I don't have Joan edies And they're fighting in court? What what is the big deal? And I think it gets back to what you're saying. You know, there's there's kind of like a

first line of defense. You define, you defend something that's relatively innocuous and that holds you at bay. So you can't request his operational files or the special affairs staff files pertaining to him, or the DRE files, or you can't you don't get the opportunity to really pursue the question of all why months and months of his DRE files uh just went missing? Now you're stuck on this admind Phil edmin file. So I think it's it's like what you're saying, Chuck, we all wondered, why would they

be so stubborn in protecting that. Well, it's like first line of defense. If you can keep winning in court on that, then you don't open the door going to the really critical stuff, which might tell you the Osbale story. So that's part of it. Because so we need to remember, first off, what Representative Luna managed to get for us is literally to persuade the CIA to release that admin file. And they didn't make a big deal. They kind of snuck it out onto the server on Friday evening, you know,

and there it is. So there's the admin file. Finally, it's like, what's the big deal. You were in court for years and years and then and then you told Jeff in court, oh, we can't find it, but oh you found it when the congress person asked for it, and you just put it on there. So you know, this does kind of expose the fact that there's something

of interest here. None of us expected a smoking gun in an admin file, that would be ridiculous, but this, if they're fighting this hard to hold back even the most basic information about Joe and Edes, it's it's interest signal. And I'm amazed by the number of people that say, oh, well, this means there's nothing there our contrere. It absolutely means that there's something there, maybe not in their file, but something associated with Joe and Edes and the dre in nineteen sixty three.

of collection anything that would be relevant. You know, the JFK Records Collection Act, right put into law by George hw Bush and then enacted by Bill Clinton when he took office because it was an executive branch agency. Just giving you that context that in ninety three you have the HSCA in existence. I mean, no, excuse me, the ARRB in existence. My fault there, Sorry, I misspoke. And

in two thousand and three Jeff starts to sue the government. Okay, as far as I know publicly, all right, I don't know. Maybe the case was worked on before that, etc. I'm not sure. I'm just telling you that first filings I see here in two thousand and three, Okay, But it went on and on and on and like I said, all the way up to right before Kavanaugh's last decision before going to the Supreme Court is shooting down this situation in court. Meanwhile, one congress person happens to ask

for it. That causes me to ask a few questions. But I'll leave it alone, Larry, and let you get back to it. But I think that context is necessary to understand as we sit here in twenty twenty five, almost sixty two years after the assassination, when he started suing them, forty years after the assassination, and we had a you know, an agreed upon bipartisan bill that went through Congress, and a law created and an executive branch agency created to collect anything relevant, you know, in ten

years before Jeff started suing in the early nineties. I'm just saying, I mean, you want to keep going backwards. We could talk about the seventies and the HCA and the Warrant Commission and what the hell is going on here, But anyway, just the context I want to give people is that after sixty two years, almost here you go because a congress person asked, go ahead, Larry, please continue.

They passed on to their case officer propaganda pieces and letters that they were preparing about Lee Harvey Oswall's okay. Now, as far as Johan Edes is concerned, he never admitted to anybody that he was in contact with the DRE, that he was in contact with the DR about oz Wall. When he was assigned to be liaison to the HSCA, he knew the HSCA was asking him about the Student Directorate. You know, we're trying to find out about the student Directorate.

We knew that they had contact with Oswald. Could you help us locate information on this? Joinees never brought forth that he's the guy. Okay, Now there's a real problem there because there's no reason he shouldn't do that. There was nothing in world. Now you might argue domestic surveillance, domestic operations. But in any event, he made the decision

not to share that information. So you have to ask why the CIA made the decision not to share the information that their case officer had been getting this stuff. So none of this would could be officially confirmed to Jeff he knew what had happened, he could not essentially confirm that the CIA was lined and the Joean Edes

with wisoling information with this ADMIN file. One of the key parts, not the only key part, but one of the key parts is it confirmed the alias that the Cubans had said that they were using in their contacts with their case officer Howard. Okay, kind of innocuous Howard. They even had a copy of a receipt we sent stuff to Howard. This this exposes the fundamental why that the CIA knew Joeann Edes knew. They knew about these

contacts with the DRE. They knew all about Oswald. There was information going into a file, a case officer's file at made a minimum at JM WAVE about Oswald and within the Special Affairs staff, oswelld was a non figure in an old character and there was a body of information in their in their possession there at the CIA. Okay, Okay, So this, this one thing in that admin file gave lie to the CIA's denial. That's that's a big thing, because why would they do that. There's by itself that's no.

But this was his job. He's supposed to talk to these people, you know, why why not disclose that? Okay, So that's the first thing that you have to back off and say, why in the world were they defending that. Well, one of the things is it gives lie to the to the depth of information that the CIA held on

Oswald prior to the assassination. But it exposes another big thing that we need to bring into the context that Jeff and John Newman had pursued years before earlier as well, and that was conversations about Oswald in Mexico City and conversations with ci off Sir Jane Roman, in which they pointed out to her that CIA co headquarters had been asked by their Mexico City station to pass on current information about Lee Harvey Oswald and they had not done so.

In fact, they had overtly not done so, saying basically, we know he's about to come back from Russia. Oh,

by the way, he's been back for over a year. Okay, and that's the most recent thing in the files where we know now without a doubt that there was a body of data in CIA at wave within spatial Affairs staff, and the two guys got Roman to even admit that what this looks like was that there was an operational interest in Oswald and the information of him on it was being compartmentalized, compartmentalized within SaaS from the rest of CIA,

certainly in compared to life from Mexico City. So in the second stroke to all of this, without putting it in, you know, in a little memo to anybody, we now know that the CIA was holding information on Oswald that they were not sharing internally, and just on that piece alone, it's almost impossible to think there was not a reason

there was there was, indeed an operational interest. To Jeff in his articles has interviewed you know, two or three CI officers and said, look at this, look at this situation, look at what we now know, and tell me what you think it means. And they're all going, based on our experience, it clearly means there was an operational interest in Oswald. For something how serious, whatever, you know, anybody within the experience in the CIA would draw the same conclusion.

So now we've learned that too. The only question is where are those files?

and forget that. We need to hammer the fact that the House Select Committee on Assassinations wanted people that were going to liaise with them from various government agencies and representing industries and all kinds of stuff, and their one condition seemed to be, we want people that weren't involved in the events in nineteen sixty three, and we need liaisons that will be knowledgeable enough to go find what we need found, you know, during the course of our investigation, etc.

And they send Joe Eadies, who clearly at some point had to say, no, I don't know anything about any of this stuff, and yet he's being asked specific questions in the seventies. Right, So isn't this the big red flag? Isn't this the thing that really got Jeff to chase it in general.

have it. So yeah, it's a huge red flag. And I will say, you know, going all the way back to that time, because the other thing that was revealed by that work is the fact that the DR reports their reports to the CIA, which everybody acknowledged they were making they were being paid to make on their activities. And by the way, there is there is a master DRI file. Okay, so we need to clarify this. You can. You can log on and look at a CIA head

quarter file that symblarizes the activities of the DRE. So we absolutely know that CIA was collecting information on this group, which I mean they're paying them, so they should get something in return, and then information is being reported into this file But here's another instance of the negative template. You go through this file and you see the file contains incidents in which DRE people were involved in propaganda, you know, sending out flyers, letters, doing radio shows, they

were involved in media activities. In one document I read sort of some students had been to Cuba and they had come back and made a strong endorsement of Cuba, and the CIA is asking the DRI to go on the radio and respond to that, and you know, you know, and so there's this whole file on the DRE at headquarters, but there's absolutely nothing in it about New Orleans, about Oswald, about the propaganda that DRI has done on Oswald, which Jeff is documented and which they confirmed, and so it's

another part of the negative template. It just raises the question, you know, did somebody scrub the DRA file after the fact, or was somebody in again controlling information at Special Affairs staff in Miami and not even reporting that to headquarters. Why is it all? What was so damaging or threatening about this information related to Oswald that somebody decided that it had to be kept even out of the internal records.

social circles, all kinds of things going on. He's handing out procastro leaflets and he's not appearing in that file. That means it's either like you said, scrub or directed elsewhere or or am I incorrect about it?

operation that you're doing with them. You know that you've you've pulled them in and made them a specific asset of what you're doing. For example, Uh, we do know that the the DRE was invited to participate in a new autonomous deniable operation against Cuba and over several months came up with a plan for that. That doesn't show up in this headquarters file. That shows up in operational files related to that activity. So, I mean, there's a

reason for compartmentalizing data. It's just that you've got to know what to expect to find where. The other thing we have to consider is if somebody is simply thinking about a project or an activity, it's it's uh, you know there, it's we haven't decided on it yet, we're talking about it. We're talking about it in the local office.

Those sorts of things are set kept in saw files in somebody's desk, drawer, file, cabinet until they really gel to the point of well, let's propose it the headquarters and let's get it somebody to kick it off as a as a proof project, fund it, you know, do a tasking on it, you know. So there may as well have been if you're looking for an operational file related to Lee Harvey Oswall. It could have never passed

that stage. It could have been setting in a you know, we might be able to do with this with Oswell, we've got these propaganda programs that we're considering. We'll work with INC and New Orleans. They'll make up some propaganda materials. But we're you know, we're just it's just generating. You know, we're just generating it. And you know maybe that's only in a SAW file. Uh. And saw files don't necessarily go to headquarters. We know that, especially if they don't

get you know, fully endorsed. So we we just have to face the fact that the people that say, oh, there's no smoking gun because you haven't found an OLATA while operations file are being either very naive or they're literally just being in denial, or they have no clue to how things really worked within the CIA, right.

of developing and pursuing before they they elevated it. So you're right it and it quite frankly, there are also things that we know never get reported to headquarters, and we've talked about that before. It's sort of like, you know, this is risky. Maybe we want to test it a little bit, see how it's working, and you know, then we'll take it to washing and run it up the flagpole.

point was called Howard, but there was other people called Howard. Okay, and it's a weird thing, like maybe Howard meant something like you might not know it, but in the nineteen eighties, if you called somebody Becky, there was a meaning to that, and it might have been just that, like a little inside joke about being a Howard.

I'm just saying it could be theoretically. But please continue, because a lot of people who are like not as deeply read into this or not as familiar with a lot of the things that you just very clearly explained are probably saying to themselves, Okay, but what does this really mean, Larry? What does it mean that you know he finally got this and what can be plainly explained based on this thing that was held back now for what twenty years, What.

That is, you know, still decades later, there's something behind that. There's something behind this Howard DRE connection. There's something about this compartmentalization of Oswald information. There's something that was dangerous. It was considered dangerous for decades. So you just can't avoid the fact that information was compartmentalized by about Oswald, about Oswald and the DRE. You can't avoid that that

that shows up all over the places now. So there's that's a very serious lead, perhaps the most serious lead that we have. There's something going on in Miami with Howard and with those DRE contacts that was evolving into into something that had to be protected. Now there's something else in the file that my my friend David has

really seized on. I probably would have missed the fact that the file shows that Joyne's got A had to go through a special clearance process and get read into and approved for some new covert project in the late spring of nineteen sixty three, apart from his regular day jobs. This is something new. The fact that he would actually have to be cleared and go through a new security process read into a new program. That's very interesting because that's more, you know, more than his just been a

staff officer and a case officer. What's this new project? And the interesting thing, of course is we know some interesting projects that got kicked off in that timeframe. The other interesting thing that has been disclosed is that David Phillips got read into and assigned to a news project within specialized fair staff in this same period of time. Does that confirm anything to us, No, but we can say both men had expertise and properanda and in Phillips's case,

especially in what's called black propaganda. So what it's his leading us to is, you know, is again, is there something explosive in an admin file. No, But the fact is, again it points to something going on with Joan needs that may lead us to what they're trying to protect, is there and what was threatening which could lead us with one to one or more operations involving the Harvey Oswald well, not necessarily involved, but built around Lee Harvey Oswald.

is there some new direction? Is there something new that's been learned here where it's like, Okay, now we did not know that this agency, this subset, this special Operations Group or whatever existed before, but now it's in the file here, we can request files on that group because it's clearly associated to this which was clearly associated to Like do we have Domino's falling here that are going to bring us into a fresh direction?

You know, who was he talking to?

You know. That really puts the pressure on Uh. So, Yeah, there's there's a great opportunity there if they comply, and if they don't comply, certainly it will be yet another signal. Right, But I can't say that any of this is is going to be easy because we don't really we don't have the and have we've we've gotten a lot of files on Miami, Miami Operating Base in terms of military activities. Uh, and David has gotten a great doing great work and

digging into those works. We know what their maritime guys were doing. We don't have nearly the same view into what psychological operations propaganda operations we're going on with these new initiatives that it really raises the question. And we've talked to Jeff somebody should be requesting memoranda or documents related to phillips new assignment, because Phillips may end up being a key factor in this, as many of us

has speculated for a long time. So yeah, it does target us to specific things, whether we can get them or not. You know, I don't know where they destroyed long ago, may have been. They've gone through a lot of work to even hold back the basic leads that we're following up now, and we have to acknowledge that. So again we're back to the a thing of are we going to end up with the cold hard data

that we want to see the operational file? You know, what we're Joe and Ed's and maybe Phillip's doing with Lee Harvey Oswell is in terms of propaganda, black propaganda, white propaganda, maybe something more sinister. Certainly, if it's more sinistor, I don't expect we're kind of see it.

But when you look at it, you step back and look at it from an instance, you see that things got so obscure, and especially with the HSCA, with the CIA trying to explain itself that they actually got to the point where they said ignore anything they as Phillips is telling you, because he's not really aware of what's

going on. Wow, now that's strange. On the other hand, David Phillips himself wrote in one book that Oswell wasn't even on the radar, wrote in another book later actually same book, if I recall, But Phillips wrote like two or three different books. He wrote in the book and asserted that he absolutely was convinced that Oswell had come back from Mexico City with ten thousand dollars in his possession, that he had been given by the Cubans to kill JFK,

which is the old Gilberto Alvarado story. So you've got you got three things going on in Mexico City. You've got owe Phillips doesn't even know anything about you know, Oswell's time here, So don't talk to him. Don't let him confuse you, or Phillips saying, oh, it was important to Oh, by the way, actually the Cubans paid them to kill JFK. That's a strong reason to go back to look at everything that's being said at Mexico City, because again, this is the level of disconnect that's not tolerable.

It absolutely hads to mean that Phillips was going on was doing something related to Lee Harvey Oswell in Mexico City, maybe after the fact. I'm not saying it was before the fact. Maybe after the fact in regard to that visit. And we're not we're not being given the truth, and we're going to have to try to piece it together.

That Alverado story is extremely interesting because it's Simpach and still have pointed out there are elements of the Alverado story that are quite real, right in terms of personnel within the Cuban Somebody knew what they were doing when they put that story together. Now the real question was did they put that whole story together on Ova twenty second or had that story been being assembled before that for some other purpose. I have to raise that possibility

because that's the sort of thing that Phillips did. Phillips can already be traced back to black propaganda, which involved threats by Cuba against JFK in nineteen sixty one. It all traces back to his role during the Cuba project. Was David Phillips thinking about revising that and bringing Lee Harvey Oswell into a new Black propagand to project before the assassination. I don't know, it's an interesting thought.

I don't know, we can anticipate possibly in the future. Do you have an idea about that or you know? And and by the way, when Larry keeps saying his friend David, of course he's talking about David Boylan, who is the co author of the Oswald Puzzle. Again, that book, which I do recommend. I recommend all of the books with Larry as a author or co author. But either way, that is the latest and one of the greatest. To be honest with you, I enjoy that book and it's

a great reference. I've got a copy of it within an arm's length. So just telling you as I speak. But Larry, what you know, what should we take away from all of this? Ultimately? How would you kind of give us a quick summary?

involved in the assassination of the president. Now, this is the first time we've heard had a reputable congress person saying that in a long time. You know, could that actually lead to a true investigation, not just a records release? Interesting concept with as much chaos as there is, you know, it's just I don't know that the president is going to get away with not having an investigation of Epstein. If you can investigate that, you could investigate this again,

a real investigation this time. Uh So, this is a story that has some legs to it. That's that's on one side. You know, it's when you when you can prove that the CIA is line and clearly had something to cover up that was important enough to do so, I mean, not just the routine stuff, but in regard to a presidential assassination. That's one story as far as the leads I discussed. Yeah, that's opened the door. I

think you you will definitely hear more from Jeff. You will definitely hear more from David and I once we

work through some scenarios on this. I suspect you'll hear from you know, there are there are researchers that have been you know, necked deep in JF wave and special affairs staff for years now, building the database, building the org chart building the crypt base that would let us go to work if we actually had you know, if we had a find like this and join d And is it that kind of a fine Phillips, Maybe that kind of a fine too.

you know, priority wise. I didn't think this was a priority. He feels like he's done with it whenever he's asked about it, even off and hey, you know what about the Jay I already did that, you know, like it's already done as far as he's concerned. And you know, Trump is the key element here when it comes to getting things done, it seems like in that administration. But then again, maybe I'm misreading stuff.

presenting virtually, but David might be there in person. I don't know. We're waiting to see, but who knows who else might show up and have something to say. Representative Luna has been invited. Now I don't know where that invite has gone. I don't know if she's even seen it or just her staff has, but I do know

it's been sent. So who knows what will happen in November between the twenty first and the twenty third this year in Dallas Texas, and I'll get into more details about that very very soon and give you the discount code if you want to sign up at Assassination Conference dot com you ken, but primarily I want you to go to larrydsh Hancock dot com. And again, if you're missing any of those books, get them, get them while you can, and if they're on sale, get to Anyways,

I'm merely o'celly. All of you are the effect. Thank you, Larry Hancock. And I'm gonna do another hour after this, so keep listening to ocelli dot com live, and if you're catching the podcast, as most of you do, do me a favor and go to the next one because it's going to be a little more about declassifications and files and oh hell, I'm gonna be talking to Pierce Redmond about the Epstein thing. So two points of interest

about you know, transparency, let's put it that way. On a Wednesday, on the Ocelly Effect, stick around, uncle.

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