Okay, So if you're still listening on the live stream, this is a quick, easy continuation. If not, this is part two of the podcast that is a tribute to my friend author who passed away recently, Joan Mellon, who was the first guest on The Ocelli Effect in February of twenty fifteen, the first live guest on the Ocelli Effect. Okay, anyway, there was only a handful of podcasts recorded before that, and it became what it became now these many years later.
The dogs are making noise. I'm sorry about that, guys, and I'm going to get right back into the interview with Joan, because today, as I speak, it's July tenth of twenty twenty five, and I wasn't I've been so dismayed as of late, I wasn't even gonna do a show, and then I got the sad news that Joan Mellon had passed away.
And I told a story in.
Part one about the general arc of our entire relationship. Really, I left a few things out because you know, she's entitled to her privacy about some things, but she was a friend. We had a relationship of an interesting dynamic to me and I have one more small story to tell about her, but I'll do that after I let her speak for herself. I got that show from twenty four to fifteen. Here lined up twenty fourteen. I keep
making that mistake. February fifteen of twenty fourteen. Okay, that's when the o'celli Effect was live with Joan Mellan as my first live guest on a Saturday night on ucy dot TV, an alternative media radio network which hardly those things don't even exist anymore, right, I still have a little radio network for as long as I can pay for that. Anyway, it is what it is, and hopefully you guys are getting something out of this.
And I mean to be.
Very respectful and pay tribute to somebody who had a great influence on me. And whether you know it or not, if you're following real information, real research, actual solid stuff when it comes to the jfk assassination, the USS liberty, the various machinations of what's gone on in Cuba and
Haiti and other places, plus many other books. She wrote a couple dozen books, some of them on film, Japanese film in particular, but cinema and women in Cinema, Marilyn Monroe, a lot of books on a lot of things, but a whole bunch of them you'll see on the graphic for this tribute.
To Joan Mellen.
Anyway, enough out of me, Let's get right back to it and play some more of this where I may or may not stop and comment here or there, just to remind you of the context. Eleven years later from this, and then I've got a piece of an interview. Let me check the date on it real fast. I've got a piece of an interview, so it won't be the whole thing. I might play this whole thing in these two parts, you know, split between the two parts, but I might not.
But I also have an interview.
From twenty eighteen with Joan. So four years after this one, and we had done a few shows and continue to do shows. We did one on Faustian Bargain. We did one on the Sherlock being catfished. We did one on Blood in the Water, the USS liberty story, Ourman and
Haiti about de morn Shields, right. We did the discussion on the Great Game in Cuba and all of the interesting you know, anti and pro castro Cubans involved in various aspects of the Kennedy assassination and other deep political things going on, and she talks about the CIA pretty bluntly here and again my opinions differed from Joan on a few things, but I bet if you're familiar with my point of view on various things that are coming up during this interview, which I strategically brought up in
a two hour spot, by the way, on a Saturday with Joan.
I was really happy to do it.
And I thought, lead with my best foot forward, and this was the friendly person I knew that would bring me something very very solid, very very correct, very very well backed by research and proper work. And also she was a hell of a writer, clearly anyway, she had her flaws, she had her quirks, and towards the end of her life she was pretty angry at me for
various things. But I hope that she remembers now that I was always her friend and always somebody that was happy to talk her through things, work with her on things, give her a different perspective when she requested it, and gets shut down respectfully, and shut the hell up when I I was told do And it didn't matter if we were talking about, you know, Thomas Beckham, or the New York Mets, or the goings on in Jersey because
we both lived there for many years. Anyway, back to the twenty fourteen interview with Joan Mellon from the Ocelli Effect archives got.
A huge amount of contributions from Brown and Route and of course again in nineteen forty eight he did so this is a mutual admiration society. And when Johnson, by the time, let's say nineteen sixty four comes, the net
worth of Lyndon Johnson was twenty four million dollars. Now, when you think he did many scams, many and many, but when you think that President Kennedy was considered a rich man, only had ten million dollars, you can see what enormous efforts that Lindon Johnson made to feathering his nest. And he was a master act, tremendously shrewd. And he had people like Bobby Baker, and he had people like
Billy Celestes and others to help him alone. And of course in those days in Texas as in Louisianda, you could give campaign contributions anytime. You know, the person didn't have to be running for office. It's incredible. So you could so then you could call any kind of gift that you wanted to give a campaign contribution, all sorts of methods that they had Johnson and the radio station and the control of that, and how Johnson retained a
monopoly on the radio state. He had the only radio station and TV station in Austin, Texas in his wife's name, so ridiculous. And then he would sell people were forced to by advertising on these radio and the TV station, and if they didn't, he got you know, they suffered the consequences and he got money that way. And there was so many scans and so.
Yeah, there's always an array of ways that any any criminal enterprise, no matter what you're looking at, there's always got to be in a ray of options for laundering the money. And Johnson certainly had many many options for doing that. But again, to put him as a mastermind for something as extreme as the assassination of John F. Kennedy, there is just no foundation for it. If there was,
that would be one thing. There's plenty of foundation for all these criminal acts that we're talking about, and we don't even have We could probably sit and do this show for the next three months for two hours every week and not even complete all of the stuff that Johnson had his fingers in. And Brown and Root, by the way, just for those who are saying to themselves, you know, this stuff isn't really relevant nowadays, or it
isn't relevant to any of the current events. I always try and point out, you know, this is where a lot of things were seeded Brown and Root. Later on, you can link it to things like ready for this Haliburton.
Okay, Well, Halliburton bought Brown and Root the minute that Herman Brown died in December of nineteen sixty two, and they didn't want to sell. So George Brown, the surviving brother, signed the papers for the sale to Halliburton just then. And so then George stayed on. I don't know the exact financial arrangements. He was still involved with Brown and Root at the time that they fortified themselves in Vietnam.
I want to say something else about Brown and Ruth that is interesting, and it's in my update also for the Farewell to Justice, and that is that Jim Garrison was very angry at Lyndon Johnson for not releasing the files and exhibits of the Warren Commission and looking at Lyndon Johnson, he also saw as people later pretending like Caro pretends that even made the discovery that Johnson was supported by Herman and George Brown, but of course everyone
knew it before that there was no new discovery. Garrison looked at Johnson and that he saw the Browns, and Hermann was dead already when Garrison made his identity investigation, there was George Brown. So the name of George Brown came up in the Garrison investigation. And some of the spies that Chuck that you referred to earlier, such as William Gerbrich, who was a cheap detective who applied the Port of New Orleans down there, real low figure. Anyway,
he infiltrated. Garrison was very trusting. That was one of Garrison's faults he had fause this was no sake. And one of them was he let people in who would flatter him and who would seem to be committed, and they were really spying and cheating and stealing documents and so forth. And so Garbrich is listening to what's going on in the office and he hears the name George Brown,
and so he reported it to a media assets. THEIA media asset named Hugh Ainsworth, now Hugh Ainsworth then called up George Brown and told him his name was mentioned Aarison was accusing him, which wasn't the case at all in being involved in the Kennedy assassination. And as a result of that whole little dance, if you like, Garrison
liked to use that metaphor of the dance. As the result of all that, guess what the CIA looks at George Brown, and they know him well, and so we get the most valuable document that I think we have on the whole Kennedy assassination in my humble opinion, and that is a description of the CIA service, the service to the clandestine services of Herman and George Brown, and a whole slew a whole list of executives of Brown and Root and they were all part of CIA starting in the early nineteen fifties.
Just whoa take note there that she literally identifies Hughaansworth as a CIA asset, even though he was a mainstream journalist and a constant go to because he was also a witness to the assassination that day, as they represented him. But what's hilarious is this is interviews in twenty fourteen. It's not till twenty seventeen that I saw most researchers willing to admit that huane'sworth was guess what.
Work and for the Feds baby anyway, just saying.
Joan did not suffer stupidity or men's words and wouldn't let me mince words.
When I talked to her privately, she was rough.
I was worried she was going to do that to me on my show, on my debut show, and I was going to look like.
A punk swear to God anyway, back to it.
And as a result, also we get a look in the same document at various foundations, including the Brown Foundation, which was a foundation set up by George Brown, I think, and all of them, and they would use this pass through. CIA used these foundations as passed throughs to fund domestic activities. There's things that they were they were not entitled to according to their the use of the foundations and all this came out in Congress by a Texas congressman named
Right Patton, who exposed it all. And so there we have the CIA's own document admitting to the use of Herman and George Brown which is gold in terms of how we connect all these things, as Don DeLillo says in his great novel Underworld, and everything is connected, and then.
Here we have it. And if not for.
Garrison, and I think Chuck you were saying earlier, if not for Garrison Oliver Stone wouldn't have had the film. And if not for the film, we wouldn't have had the John F. Kennedy Assassination Records and Collection Act, and we wouldn't have had all the documents, and none of these books that have been written about the Kennedy assassination in the last twenty years would never have been published.
And the Assassination Records Review Board which was formed as a result from the outcry of that movie. And again I say you could trace that back to Garrison's case, the fact that Stone had publicized it, and all of that stuff which later gave us that marvelous collection that is there now at the National Archives. All of these things give you a blueprint for the anatomy of many of the intelligence services attempts to subvert many things, especially
the media assets. That stuff is laid out so clearly, and Hugh Ainsworth just in case my listeners think that that is a familiar name. Hugh Ainsworth is one of these guys that has always pulled out. He's still being pulled out today on all of these Oswald did it shows as an assassination witness, as an authority on the real situations that were occurring in Dallas and all these things because he was a reporter in Dallas at the time. But as you point out, this guy can be tied
to the agency. He was definitely an asset. That's just the way it is. And on top of that, you know, when you examine this stuff that's coming out all the time, again, this is how it works. It gives you a blueprint for how it is they turn around and discredit people
and stuff like this. Now, another little point that I wanted to make here, It's just a small point, is that you're not talking about Jim Garrison as somebody that you learned about through the JFK movie or that you happened to read about because he was an assassination literature or anything like that. You actually knew the man, didn't you.
Well, what happened was I mentioned earlier on our program the Piaiese Sarah newspaper series about the CIA front Permandex and Central Monday al COMMERCIALI. Well, my husband was living in London at the time and we weren't married then, but he he got a set of those newspapers and he sent them to Jim Garrison in New Orleans. So in May of nineteen sixty nine, Garrison the chaw Off course was a in March. In May of nineteen sixty nine, Garrison invited my husband and me to New Orleans and
he wanted to thank Ralph and like that. So there we go. We go, and I'd never been to New Orleans. It's terribly hot down there.
I have to tell you.
It's seltry and I was sick, and so the photograph in a farewell to Justice, I look pretty bedraggled. I'm sick with fever from the sultry weather. And Garrison and my husband and I are sitting in the hotel room and Garrison is talking about the Kennedy assassination. And the blinds were bothering me. The sun was so somebody working for the hotel came in to fix the blinds and he said, hello, mister Garrison. And I found that surprising.
By the way, at the hotel, it was the hotel monte Leone on Royal Street, and Garrison registered us as mister and missus Lyndon Baines Johnson, which is really very funny in the light of everything that has happened since, even funnier. But when this man said, I said, well, gee, how come he's saying hello to mister Garrison. I had
no idea. And then when we walked in the street, it would going to the Garrison's favorite restaurant, which was called Miran La Louisiana, and people in the street, especially black people, are saying hello to mister Garrison, and I think, I don't even know. I did not know that he was district attorney, which he was. He had been reelect it. In fact, didn't know, no, no, he was running for
reelection because the election was probably that on him. You would not know that he was district attorney except for people are recognizing him in the street because he's talking all the while about the Kennedy assassination. And I thought that was all he cared about, really, was the Kennedy assassination. Well, I knew Garrison's ambition in life was not to be a district attorney or a lawyer or any of this.
He wanted to be an author, and so he was writing manuscripts and books about the Kennedy assassination and novels, and he was sending him to me, and he wanted to talk three hours at a stretch. And those who know him are like say Vince Landry and Philadelphia. People who have been his print know that he could talk for hours and hours. You didn't say a word, and he's talking about his writing and what he's thinking and
what he's doing. And this went on for some years, and then in the early nineteen seventies when he was charged by the federal government for taking bribes from pimball operators illegal pinball gambling interests, and he was on trial and he was framed. It was clear that he was framed, and I thought, well, this would be a great subject for a book. I want to write a book about
Garrison and what happened to him and all this. Of course, Garrison was acquitted both of taking the bribes, and then he was tried again by the Internal Revenue Service for not paying taxes on the bribes that he was acquitted of taking.
Yeah, most interestingly, he was acquitted of the tax evasion on the bribes that it had already been established in the court of law. He hadn't taken That was the fascinating part of that for me.
Yes, So anyway, I thought I'll write this book then, and then I just didn't. I didn't know how to write a biography. I certainly didn't know enough about any of this, So you know, I didn't start then Garrison, and so I saw him again. The last time I saw Garrison was in nineteen eighty seven, and Oliver Stone was working on his film, and he was very happy about that. He was going to play Chief Justice or
a Warren. Garrison played or a Warren in the film, which he thought was funny, and so he was very young.
But he was just the same in nineteen eighty seven as he had been in nineteen sixty nine, talking NonStop about the fact that the brother of Dullas's second in command, General Charles Cabell, was the mayor of Dallas at the time of the Kennedy assassination, and the business with the parade route wasn't changed going over this material that Oswald never fired a shot, going over this over and over again, and then he got sick, and I didn't start writing
and doing the research the actual book until nineteen ninety seven. I wrote many many books since during that time, but I didn't start again until ninety seven. And the first person two people together. They were afraid to see me alone.
I thought.
The two people that I saw first were Frank Minard, who was the coroner of Orleans Parish for many many years. He was the only white man that got re elected in later years. But Frank told me that when he would go into the house of somebody, when some collect a dead body he was a coroner, he would see three photographs in the black people's homes. There was, predictably doctor Martin Luther King Junior. There was John F. Kennedy, and there was Jim Garrison. These are the people that
were that were most admired. And so Frank told me Nana and lou Aivan was the other person that was with him, and they began to tell me about Jim Garrison, what he was like in his life, and and it was funny. I think one of the things that I missed in the Oliver Stone film that was was the humor of Garrison. That's sardonic irony, and I love the line.
I ope my favorite rong it still is the line of Garrison where he says was talking about in his investigation and being in the investigation, and he said, I thought I was living in the country I was born in, and the country that he was born in was a country with civil liberties with us, that with justice, justice under the law, and that you don't have a country, for example, in which when he charged Clay Shaw with perjury after the Shaw trial, it went into federal court,
which I had no business. It was a state Louisiana matter perjury. It's not a federal crime. But somehow it got into federal court and it was dismissed because Shaw lied on the stand in the trial and he said that he didn't know Oswald and he didn't know David Ferry.
And we have ten witnesses or more. There was some that didn't compere at the trial, black and white, who said that they saw Shaw and this is very important to Shaw and Ferry and Oswald driving in a black Cadillac up to Jackson and Clinton, Louisiana, north of Baton Rouge and Oswald had gone up there there to Clintlinton to vote and to figure out what Garrison see.
Now, this interview continues for quite a while more, and if you want the whole thing, by all means, go ahead and email me.
I'll be a lot happier if you.
Know supporters that have supported me before, email me to request if you want a copy of this if you didn't already, get it through the archives or whatever else, or get it, you know, in a replace somewhere, or get that upgraded version of it I put out a
couple of years ago. I'll be more than happy to send you the best version of it that I have a copy of and fire it on off to you via email at least for well the remainder of July, which is as long as I'm sure that I'll be able to maintain my email storage account.
But we'll see what happens.
Anyway, we're going to take a little break here, and as we do, I'm going to come back and play another piece from a separate interview with Joan, and we'll continue this particular tribute to Joan Mellon, the author of many many books on the Ocelli effect.
Stick around, revel level, through, Okay, through break Through.
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Second segment of The O'Kelly Effect, Part two, tribute to Joan Mellon, and we're gonna get straight on into it within your interview from twenty eighteen. And this is regarding a different circumstance.
How about this. It looks like it's hour number two from.
The Let's See Now October twenty sixth, twenty eighteen interview with Joan Mellon regarding the USS Liberty and her book Blood in the Water. Anyway, it's the second hour, and I think I was on American Freedom Radio at this time.
I don't really remember. Now, maybe I wasn't. I don't know.
I guess we'll have to listen and find out. Let's see, because I probably announced it at the beginning of the hour, if that's what happened. But I haven't listened to this. I'm listening to it along with you guys, because I just randomly selected these things. And well, I mean, truthfully, I wanted to play part of the first interview, at least that I did with her, but I wanted to follow up with something else, and I chose this at random, So hopefully this works out for you guys, and you
enjoy it. I know it'll be packed with information, just like the other piece was. And again it's look July tenth of twenty twenty five, and unfortunately Joan Mellon is no longer on this planet with us, so hopefully this sound quality is a little better too, and maybe my delivery will have improved in a couple of years there, because now I'm more than four and a half years deep into my broadcast career.
On this clip, right.
From after we repeat to bring my brother back to where I'm coming from.
Now, treat joy again.
That's all.
That's all. That's all.
Second Hour The Ocelli Effect begins now here to Shelley dot Com, but also heard a variety of other affiliates. We do appreciate all of you for tuning in. Anyway, if you're catching this in podcast form, you're going to need to refer to the show notes to find out where you can pre order the book, which is by my guest tonight, Joan Mellan, the author, but she's a lot more than an author.
I'll tell you.
It's listen I'm gonna include a link to joanmellon dot com so you can go and read about the author if you like a bit. I'm going to also include the link to pre order the book, which is Blood in the Water how the US and Israel conspired to ambush the USS Liberty, which is the topic tonight. But of course Joan's written about a great many other topics, and as I said before, she's been on the show quite a few times, and I always am happy and learn something every time Joan is on the show.
I've heard got to mention the name, Chuck. We need we need to mention the name of the publisher, Prometheus Books.
Prometheus is publishing this.
Okay, I didn't even notice that, to be honest, because you've actually worked with several publishers over the years.
Yeah, no, I guess. And you know, whoever wants to do a topic this publisher Prometheus Books. They like to do books of historical events that are not solved, that people don't know about, and this is a perfect book for them because it's an open story. People still don't know exactly what happened, and that's partly because they don't want it. They're afraid of the material. It's very goes right to the root of the American imperial enterprise, if you want to put it that way, and the relationship
of US and Israel. It's like a taboo topic along with the Kennedy assassination.
Well, there's a whole bunch of taboo topics in here.
First of all, to cast dispersions on Lyndon Bings Johnson is apparently not in vogue at the moment, you know, because, as you said earlier in this discussion, his current official biographers, what are they doing but whitewashing his entire existence.
And I know that I was very friendly in the past, maybe in the eighties with Robert Carow. I even bought at one point, I was invited to his birthday party and I bought a cake, a huge cake in the shape of the LBJ ranch with cows and horses and cowboys and it was and it was a cake. So I mean, I really I knew him quite well, And at that time I didn't know any of this, and I didn't really know until recently. Really he's a depth
to which he's covered up. But those people who have read his most recent book realized he's distorted the Kennedy He had to write about the Kennedy assassination. There was no way around that. And there he gives the official Warren Commission story, and that's just been't disproved over and over again. So he just was terrified of the subject, obviously. And I just wonder his new book volume would be covering nineteen sixty seven and would be covering the USS liberty.
But I don't know if it will. Maybe we'll force them into it just to look at this.
Well, maybe there'll there'll be a mention there, but I can guarantee you it's not going to even remotely resemble what you produced.
Here in this world.
No, but he is the object of He and Robert Dallak as well. They want to rehabilitate Johnson as a credible figure. And it's part of protecting the mainstream politics of the country. If you have a president as a murderer, as in the case of Lyndon Johnson, and I'm not talking about his killing Kennedy here, he is really responsible for the deaths of all those people, and many of them, maybe half of them at least, that the planes had been allowed to go and go to the site of
where the ship was being attacked. Some lives there certainly could have been saved. So he abandoned American sailors on him in the field of battle that they hadn't sort of after themselves and got away with it, didn't he well? And even when let me just say this, even the sailors, the survivors actually filed a war crime report against Israel in two thousand and four, which is something that when you want to file that in the military, you have
to deposit it at the Pentagon. And they never answered. It was never answered. But the petition itself does not mention Lindon Johnson. And I asked the author of the petition name who was one of the people in the Air Force who actually was aware of the liberty incident at the time, with Wyndon Johnson's name on this, as he certainly committed war crimes, and he hung up. He wouldn't talk to me, and he wouldn't see me. And this was on the phone, and.
What could you do, right?
I actually have a PDF of something that is dated and listed as war crimes committed against the US military personnel June eighth, nineteen sixty seven, and it was submitted to the Secretary of the Army.
Oh, yes you have. That's the petition that the Liberty Veterans Association filed and the war crime petition.
That's right, right, what I'm referring to exactly, I'm going to put a link to that along with this show, and also it's in the live chat room. You can read it for yourself. It was actually filed according to this in two thousand and five. Let's see, actually on June eighth, two thousand and five. Indeed, so wow, almost forty years later, thirty eight years after the fact, they filed this and as you said, it has not been answered.
Right, were answered and there was there have been books about an international law that have you know, discussed all the violations and including one by a person named Walter Jacobson. He was in the Navy and uh Lisle the violations
and war crimes and suddenly h to blow up the lifeboats. See, they had released the lifeboats into the water because the captain had actually in the midst of the attack, had had ordered them to abandon ship, and so so then they slew these were they let the lifeboats inflate in order to get to save some people if the ship is going to sink any lifeboats and the Israelis uh, they they took the machine gun, the life rafts so that they couldn't be used, and one life raft they
grabbed and they took it to as a souvenir back to Israel.
H I wasn't aware that they took a souvenir back to Israel, but uh I did refer to that earlier. And as far as I understand, there are multiple aspects of the Geneva Conventions that that specifically prohibit attacking UH lifeboats or things which are being utilized to save lives that are unarmed on a battlefield. I could have swore there were rules against this, Joan, maybe I'm mistaken.
Well, no, I think that this is definitely prohibited, prohibited. Yeah, so you know, people do what they do, and I think that, you know, I don't want to get into the Israeli politics too much, but you know, I can understand after the Holocaust, the Israeli position is what rules, what rules of what humane rules of in law of in law? They certainly weren't didn't that the Nazi period destroy all civilities and war.
We see unfortunately a lot of the stuff that was developed.
As you know, reasonable agreements between civilized nations allegedly came after that. Right, A lot of it came after that, including you know, things like bands on medical testing, on you know, unwilling subjects, things like this, you know, a whole.
Round also agent rans and the napalm in order the murdering of villagers in the Vietnam War. There are guilty.
But by the way, by the way, one one question I do have for you. I once read that it was white phosphorus which was utilized on the liberty. Uh napalm may have also been dumped on it, But was white phosphorus also used during.
The attack, not that I know of.
It was ny palm. A lot of canisters of napalm and it ignites and makes fires. You no, you look at the histories of this scene. I never heard of why prosphorus, but maybe they meant nay palm when they I don't know.
Well, I tell you there's a lot of My point is there's a lot of confusion about this. And to be honest with you, I know, the type of research that you've done, you probably clarify a bunch of things that you're not even aware of in this book, Uh, just letting you know that, because there's a lot of speculation. You notice I said that there might have been Russians who were present, who were you know, flying around, or
Soviet planes. I have also read that there were other planes that happened to be in the area that might have put eyes on it, who might have not been aware of what was happening. I read about the Israelis who refused to fire upon the liberty.
I've read about it.
Let's get back to the Soviets because I want to add a point, and that is on the night after June, the night of June, after the shooting is done, and they're just wobbling around in the water, ship was listing, you know, at ten degrees.
I think, well, let's let's paint the entire picture. It's crippled. It's got a forty foot hole in it. You know, the circumference were the you know, the diameter not sure, but either way it's forty feet okay. Large hole. Power is obviously challenged or gone.
And now the US is not coming, nobody's coming to help, and they're all alone out there. Nobody's coming. And on the horizon appears a Soviet ship and the Soviet commander in English sends a message to the Liberty do you need help? And the Liberty answers no, thank you, and the Soviets say, well, we'll stay here for a few hours, you know, through the night, just in case you need us,
and they did. Now these people who say, oh, we don't need it, go away, these are people who were educated in the Cold War, and the Cold War thinking is Soviets are no good and we don't want anything to do with your the enemy. But the fact is that the Soviets behaved impeccably throughout the story. And I traced the Soviet presence in the Mediterranean in relation to the Liberty throughout the book, so I can tell you they appear and the Soviets were doing the same thing.
They had surveillance ships, so they understood. And then there's a whole story that I have about the Soviet submarine that somehow on that submarine they developed a week of mercury, and the men on that submarine were dying and sick and throwing up whatever. And the captain wires Moscow and says, I want to come back and bring these people to the hospital, and they thought that this was so serious a situation that they said no. So that's another aspect does the story Well, yeah.
There's a lot of considerations there because the Soviets to become entangled in this now could you know a lot of things could be misconstrued or misrepresented later on. It's actually kind of dangerous for that Soviet captain who have even offered assistance given the uh you know, I mean on the.
Night before when on the night after the attack, right, yes, but I mean you could see they have a good spy system too, and they could see what was going on.
Here's here's actually a question from a live listener, which which I think is a good one. Were the men that you spoke to that were on the ship that survived, were they immediately aware that they were attacked by Israeli assets?
Yes, well that's a very good question. Well, on the same day as the attack, late in the afternoon is said they did they accepted responsible vility and they said they did it and it was a mistake and it was an accident, and they did so the same day they took responsibility. They wanted to see. I think it's it's when you look at the political thing. You realize that they took the responsibility to take any any chance away that the people could begin to blame the United
States for this in some way. But they immediately stepped forward. And they've kept quiet about this for all these years, fifty years they have, and they've really covered for the United States on this ship, on this business, and Israel has covered for them. You see, it was no one's neither of their interests to tell the truth. And the United States has worked hard on every president since Johnson to keep up the covert cover up and not to
get into this. And many sailors have called their representatives and senators and asked for help to get it. They wanted calling for a new investigation because the first naval inquiry, which is the only one, was fraud. And so Dave was lived in Vermont at the time, so you know who his United States senator was. So this United States senator answers the phone as he was wont to do, and Bernie Sanders says, I don't, I don't want. I
can't get involved with that. And then the other senator was Patrick Ley, and he also said I can't get involved with that. Well, Dave then said to Bernie Sanders, Listen, you don't have to do that, because I have I know a rabbi who's very simple, sympathetic to the liberty, and you can do it through him. And and and Sanders said that isn't appropriate either. His phrase was, it isn't appropriate, which is sort of kind of makes you a little bit down on Bernie Sanders. And what if
you have to lose. He's an older man now, And why can't you tell the truth and why can't it stand up for people? And but of course if you do, you know you're out of politics. Because his alias have a very strong robby it's called APAC, AIPAC, and they
will destroy you and make you lose an election. One of the people that happened to was the son of Adelais Stevenson, Adle Stevenson, the one that ran against Prisident Eisenhower, and he was at the time in the United States Senate and he wanted to run for governor of Illinois, and he ran for governor and he lost by a tiny bit. But the point the APAC really came.
Out and he.
He lost.
Well, it's no strange coincidence or accident that even in twenty sixteen, we observed every viable presidential candidate, including the guy who's in office now, went before.
Apak and pledged for it. They would do the right thing.
See, those are very powerful, that's the American Israeli Political Action Committee and the extremely powerful. And I have this funny feeling that they certainly wouldn't want to pick at this scam.
That's really the way that they look.
This is very important. And when I call various Israeli writers, including one name Avenir Kohane, who had written the book Israel and the Bomb so which they've had since the sixties, it's another part of the story. And President Kennedy gets involved with that anyway. I called him, I asked him about the liberty and he said, it's a comedy of ARUs.
Comedy of the comedy of Wow.
You know, they see that's a weird thing because in recent years, again the concept that maybe the Masade had Kennedy killed is you know, is popularized in certain circles at this point over the fact that there was a problem with the you know, giving the nukes.
Basically, I mean, let's just cut to the chase.
We didn't have to give them nukes. They have had nukes since Kennedy's day.
Yeah.
Well, and not only nukes, you know, weapons, not just the material but the actual weapons. They've had nuclear weapons since nineteen sixty three.
Yeah.
Right.
But the point is right to.
President Kennedy, Yeah, she won't Paris, that is, it will not be the first country in the Middle East to get nuclear weapons. And of course they were, they had them. Well, and that's also a taboo, another taboo subject. You're not going to hear that.
Well, but that's why I bring it up right here and now, because the bottom line is, look, I have no qualms with bringing up realities. And people talk about this as being a motive for why the Masade wanted to kill JFK. The problem is there would be no need for it because they already had this stuff.
I mean, we know, well, that's right, that's right. And they also outsmarted Kennedy. And when he sent inspectors to you know, there was kept to do inspections of these places. They created new elevators, they build new buildings. They were they were able. They said it was a holiday. Somehow nobody got to see anything, right, so they didn't they didn't need to kill him. They could out smart at him and.
Them us right well exactly, So that's why that whole assertion falls apart on its face.
See and there you go, guys. I mean, what can I say except that this conversation goes on and on. And I'll tell you what. Somebody, and I don't know who, but posted this show.
I don't know the guy.
He just decided for his own interests to post half of my interview with Joan Mellan on YouTube.
Other people could post my stuff on YouTube, but not me, So you know, it's like other people can have PayPal accounts.
And I don't anymore. Anyway, it is what it is.
I put a link in the live chat room and also with the show notes if you want to help out and try and keep us running. I'm trying to pay the small bills as they come in with other means, but I used to do everything through PayPal, and now a whole lot of loss, all your memberships, all that stuff is going to be gone. I'm not going to be able to collect it. So you know, I'm not going to cancel anybody's membership on the website. It's not your fault that.
You can't pay it.
So the memberships are frozen until I come up with a solution there. But anyway, I'm going to do a separate podcast probably tomorrow night about this situation with PayPal and a few other things before we do the Friday night calling show that we always do, and I'll be able to do it this week, but who knows how long that'll go on for. Also, I'll have a new episode of the Age of Transitions ready to roll tomorrow night on o'chelly dot com. No Uncles show, I think, but I'm not certain of that.
Anyway.
We shall see what we see when we see it. But I wanted to pay tribute to the great author Joan Mellon, and I'm going to put the like I said, the link to this guy's YouTube channel, you know, for no other reason except that you guys can hear the whole hour, at least the whole second hour of this discussion on the USS Liberty with the author Joan Mellon, Blood in the Water.
There you go.
So Joan was a friend and somebody I really appreciated. Oh, in that final little story, right, I started talking about how she didn't show up for JFK and Dealey Plazid and all that and didn't show up for the answer recording and wanted nothing to do with the research community
any longer. And I tried to have a private conversation with her to get her to just do one last appearance on Jim Garrison, and you know, considering that we had gone through the twenty seventeen time period that we all waited for and never got the documents on and everything else, and I wanted her to come to Lancer one more time after you know, Trump didn't release, then
Biden didn't release, then Trump again didn't fully release. And we've gotten some new documents recently, that's true, but we still don't have everything, and we still don't have full disclosure. We still have you know, non communicative and non cooperative government agencies still in violation of the JFK Records Collection Act, covering you know, the CYA and also not the CIA, the CYA if you will, of it all.
And doing that.
And for other reasons too, but anyway, who cares, right, I just wanted to say thanks to Joan, and like I was saying, we were waiting for those documents, and I wanted her to do one last present.
But her whole thing was she kept telling.
Gabby and other people that were affiliated with Lancer that she would only do a presentation at the conference if she could talk about how stupid conferences were and how counterproductive all this was because the community had become such trash because.
Judy Baker qa non trumpy people. She was sick of it all. And I get it.
I really do albeit Lancer this year, and we'll see how it goes. If I make it to the end of the year and I'm still not homeless by then, I'll go to Texas on somebody else's dime. If not, I'll be probably gying to survive somewhere and not able to be gotten hold of.
I guess we'll have to stay tuned and see what happens.
But before any of that goes on, I wanted to pay tribute to Joan Mellon, who was a great ade author, intelligent person, great researcher, and absolutely indispensable contributor to the library of knowledge that is accessible to people regarding a great many historical events, but especially those of the assassinations of the sixties, the USS liberty, and various characters that are ancillary, tangential, or directly connected to those events.
So Thank you, Joan. I wish yet.
Stuck around just a little longer, and I guarantee she had another five books worth of stuff like just laying around her house. That would have been better than ninety percent of the authors that put out the junk they put out. Anyway, much love, Joan, you will be missed. I am hereli o'celly of you. Those of you who have supported me, have done what you can over these years.
You are the effect.
Good, the use expressed my callers, schools, there anyone else who happens to get on the air of Jelly dot com. Do not necessarily reflect the views of the Jelly dot Com or Jumbo Jelly, and we are not responsible for any stupidity which might ensue.
Thank you.
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