And guess what it is a Tuesday afternoon, and I'll tell you it's kind of a strange one. It's the twenty first day of May twenty four, allegedly according to that thing we call a calendar. And if you're hearing the live stream, you're saying to yourself, why did he just go live? Well, I had to book a special time to talk to two special guests about an interesting volume on the Kennedy assassination. And they have been asked for
by request, and all of that, of course, always requested. William Law the author of In the Eye of History, co author of various other books which have given us historical accounts of many things, especially surrounding the medical evidence, the casket, the autor autopsy when it comes to JFK. But William Law, I mean, if you don't know who he is, then I guess you really have not been in the JFK literature at all in the past I don't know, three four decades. Because if you haven't read William
law stuff, you don't know about the autopsy either. The greatest collection ever by the way of interviews, in the Eye of History. But that's not what we're discussing. Today, not at all. His co author is with us, and you might recognize his name. I know you do, because you guys requested that I interview him, and you guys requested that I interview him about the book we're going to talk about, Donald Jeffries, who is
also the author of many many other books, let's see Bullyocracy. He likes to mention a lot, but I gotta tell you, Survival of the Richest is still, even with this volume on the Kennedy assassination, is still my favorite book by Donald Jeffries because it describes, oh, I don't know what exactly is happening right now, why it's happening, who gets put into positions of power, and why when it comes to the financial spectrum, if you
will, and what goes on in the world around us. Survival of the Riches go get that one, But again, not the book we're talking about today. This one has something to do with an interview that Don and I kind of discussed when I was producing the Donald Jeffrey Show for a little while, and he wanted to interview Dean Andrews. Third. Now, if you don't know Dean Andrews is or that name doesn't jump right out at you. I guess you didn't see the movie JFK either, and you didn't recognize the
fact that John Candy did this incredible performance. By the way, when I look at the archival footage of Dean Andrews, this fascinating lawyer from New Orleans, you take a look at John Candy's performance. And oh, by the way, the title of the book comes from a line in the movie JFK. But you know what, I think I should let the authors explain this and tell you why it is they thought it was a good idea to come together write this book. I mean, I've got a hard question or two
about that, but maybe I'll get there, maybe I won't. Let's talk about it anyway. First, William Law, how you doing tonight, sir, or this afternoon? Excuse me, I'm doing well. Thanks check excellent. And again, William, you know I love your work. I really do. I mean, anything you see if you see will William Law on it and it's please. I can't recommend it enough. I've done I've done shows on your books without you on the show. By the way, I
want you to know that. But anyway, with everyone felt that way, I do love it. I even made sure to mention you on Coast to Coast AM. I don't know if you know that. When I went on there, I said, you know what, if you guys want to know about the autopsy and all this stuff, if you haven't read William Law's book, and you haven't checked out the Blu ray and the gathering that he did and all of the stuff that he's put together over the years, then you
need to go to school, guys. I think I said that on Coast to Coast AM anyway, But okay, and Donald Jeffries, Gee, don you know, I'm not all that familiar with you. How are you doing today? Yeah, I kind of lay low here. I I don't get out much on these interviews or anything. Now people people probably maybe hear too much and maybe yeah, it's nice to talk with you again. Rare podcast. Look, actually you'll be able to catch them on Rent's radio network.
What Later Tonight? Is it? No? Last night? That was by run It. They rerun those shows several times a week, and then uh, you know, Eye Protest comes on Fridays and now ban video. Alex Jones station actually carries the archives there and you can also get him an America and plug so you can you can find me lots of laices, right American plugged, I protest And by the way, the sub stack is that is that also called eye protest? Or is that? Yes, it's I Press.
We're going with the aim there. And for people that know, I've written about my love for the movie Meet John Doe nineteen forty one friend, cap is film, and I just love that film and the character of John Doe. His column was called the Eye Protest by so that's why I keep
using that. It's kind of a tip of the hat to Capern. Okay, so now I want to shut up and let you guys explain something here because I remember that you and I had talked about maybe you should interview Dean Andrews third on a podcast a radio show, And yeah, great idea. Now why Dean Andrews the third? Why do I keep adding that third to it? Because this is the son of the guy that John Candy is portraying in the movie, right, and yeah, so go ahead explain this to
us, like how it is you knew him? And how does William Long gets involved in it? Pass it over to him, and then I'd like to hear about how he gets into this. Yeah, go ahead. Well, you know, Dean came into my life and there are some coincidences and he my brother told me probably twenty or twenty more than twenty years ago. Now I guess that he had met this guy and and they weren't like a therapy group together, and uh and he said to this guy, yeah,
he's his name's Dean Andrews. He said, you know, he's the son of that guy that John Candy played. JFF. Cannon's thinking, you know, he's probably somebody that just is imagining he's you know, instead of imagining's Napoleon, he's imagining something like a much less historical character. I said, okay, so but anyhow, you wanted me to meet him, So I said, okay, have him over for dinner. I've done that before. So he came in and you know, he had the big scrap book with
his father and all the pictures. You know that Dean Andrews Junior ran the door land Sjazz Festival there and so I you know, I'm instantly this guy's the real deal. So I was just amazed that, you know, talking about serendipity, that something like that that we can He was amazed at me too. All I knew about you know, I knew more about his dad in the Kennedy assassination than he did. So you know, we struck up a friendship and we were fascinated with each other. And then, you know,
he used to come to a lot of family gatherings. He came to Christmas before. He didn't have family really, and he just you know, but I didn't ultimately, I just didn't think there was a there was a book, there, a story there. I don't know. I guess it
was too stupid, you know. But then and so when we talked about interviewing him, uh, I think the reason we didn't do it is because he had He's had health problems off and on for you know, quite a while, and I think at that time maybe he was in a rehab center. So I can't remember exactly, but you know, I kind of I always put that because I'm always writing other stuff. And then William, when he found out I knew him, he was saying, now, you come
on, you got to get this guy on the record. You got to talk to him. And said, okay. So William really pushed it and I said okay. And then we when we started getting this in together as well, we can make this into you know, Dean and his father or the focus, but we can make this into something bigger, and so we ended up putting together what I think is hopefully is a is a clear impression of what I think. You know, it was the ground level to ground
level conspiracy. Okay, the people that think of misled researchers down that human rabbit hole. Because all the anti cast Cubans, all these people were there in New Orleans along with all these other guys, and I personally think I think William agrees that. I think they all were being manipulated like Oswald was, and you know, they probably all had intelligence connections. Well, before we get there, let's go over to William Law. William helped me out
here and help out the listener in case. Look, I know, but I help help out the listener. Uh, Dean Andrews, right, the guy that John Candy played, How would you give, you know, a bullet point description of that guy who happens to be the father of this guy that just randomly showed up as one of Don's brother's friends. Uh, let's describe the guy that John Candy plays in the film in case people don't know,
or maybe they're just familiar with that character who was Dean Andrews. Dean Andrews was was a lawyer in New Orleans, and he was one of those characters that you often meet, uh there that was just bigger than life. If he didn't exist, you'd have to make him up. Uh. He he talked in a form of jive for the time, and uh I just found him really amusing. And when I spoke to Bean, I asked him about Candy's portrayal, and he said, well, he said, Candy,
Candy got the got the character right. He said, he got the he got the jive talk right, and and he fit the profile pretty well. He did a good job, he told me. And uh so, you know it, he connects into this thing of of why would he be connected, you know, sought out to represent Oswald. You know, the character itself is just kind of amazing, and I really wanted to know more about this guy. I mean, well, you remember seeing the old white paper,
right the the Garrison Investigation in NBC. You know it takes a look
at blah blah blah. Dean Andrews shows up on there and literally One of the lines in the movie is taken from that where he says, you know you got the right top time, but the wrong ho ho right, And that that to me is the line yeah, go ah, I'm sorry, Well, I'm just saying I love that line because that line, you can hear Dean Andrews say it, you can hear John Candy say it, and it's like, oh, okay, I can see this guy did some work to prepare for this role, because it was clearly, you know, clearly
a good echo, right, And a lot of the character actors that did stuff in that movie actually did solid jobs representing who it was they were trying to represent. I mean, you think about guy Banister and anyway, let's not go off on a rabbit trail. But the John and character is fascinating because of John Candy showing it to us, and there's film of this guy a little bit here, a little bit there that you can catch some of
this jive talk. But the line that you guys took for the title of the book, which we haven't even given yet, is also a line. Was that your idea or Don's idea to make that the title of the book, William, could you give me some insight on that and tell people what
that is. Yeah, that was my idea because when you see that scene in the movie, a beautiful woman in red comes across for an instant the camera and these two are having lunch, Dean Andrews and Jim Garrison, and Dean says, pipe the bimbo in red and he says, well, yeah, she's cute, Dino, but not have as cute as you are. Words to that effect. Yeah, and they get into this argument. Goes Andrews says, why are you dancing on my head, mam man. We've
been thick as bees, you know, clear back to law school. And they get into this discussion about why his description of Oswald has changed over the years, his height and how he looked and all that. Right, So that immediately spoke to Garrison and his investigation. And so when it came time for the title to the book, that's what stuck out to me was that
scene. And I've recently read something on Facebook by someone who read the book and they commented, as soon as I saw the title, I knew what the book was about, and that was why I wanted to use that title. Oh yeah, I mean absolutely, I knew exactly what it was. Now, for those of you don't necessarily understand, the beat nick thing pipe of the bimbo in red means basically, hey, check out that good looking woman wearing red over there, which you know, your piper, you take
a look. You actually use your eyes, you know, look through a telescope or something and go get a good look at her. And I thought it was it was beautiful. Which, by the way, in that scene, you know, stop eating that damn crab meat a minute and listen to me. That whole exchange is just I mean, and it's only maybe like two minutes of the movie. Maybe I'll pull up the audio clip here while we're talking and and play it for people to give them an idea in case
they forgot. But if you're familiar with the movie, JFK, there's no way you forgot that scene with you know what you're dancing on my head for, you know. And and we've been think as molasses I think it was since law school, right, William something like that, And there's this whole thing going on where Jim Garrison, uh, you know, back to the
real life story. Dean Andrews is a a real guy, but Jim Garrison is really having to deal with a lot of interesting characters in a let's call it culturally diverse area of New Orleans, okay, where you know, there's people of all sorts of lifestyles, you know, not the least of which is David Ferry, who comes up later. But Andrews is somebody who was a person of interest because he was asked to represent Oswald at a certain point. And this is the thing that Garrison is after. I know this guy,
but he was asked to, you know, check out Oswald. And meanwhile, he's sort of a hustler lawyer. And he even tries to say something there which is a line that I can't decipher, where he says something about being a you know, a hacker, hot dog something like this, where he's like, you know, I'm just a hustler lawyer. Basically, it's what he's telling him. And Beatnick too during this scene, and you're
you're asking about something that I don't want to answer. Then he lights a cigarette, takes a drag and looks at him and says, you keep asking these questions, and it's bye by Dino, which you know, was I'm to end up getting killed here I keep talking to you. I think he was really afraid of that. Yeah, well then he wasn't he wasn't going to talk about it. He he he knew things, and he knew he shouldn't have known them, and uh, he was going to keep quiet under
all circumstances. Right now, I don't know really what happened to Dean Andrews, like say, post clay Shaw trial. Uh, Andrews I believe didn't Garrison at some point and indict him or try to indict him. He did go ahead and take that done. Yeah, don yeah, yeah, and that in for perjury and and that's the uh one I think. Uh, you know, A very interesting aspect of the book is you get the the bat, you get the the backdrop of what what one family and the Andrews
family went through that was connected to the assassination. And so you know the and I I had the pleasure of having Dean's mother for dinner. It's probably been fifteen to twenty years ago now, but she had never talked about the assassination. She's still alive, she's well in her nineties, living in New Orleans. He doesn't see her very much because he can't travel because of his
condition. Really, and she's you know, in her nineties, but she and I got her to open up a little bit, and you know, she basically is under the impressions that her husband was crazy and and they I can understand why, you know, this was. They were He was one of a celebrated lawyer in New Orleans, had lots of big contacts. He ran the New New Orleans Jazz Festival, and this thing really tarnished him,
and he I don't think he realized. And that's why I still, you know, we looked into this phone call and everything that he got, and I still don't really understand it. He really hasn't been examined much scrutinize. He definitely got the call, and we go over in the book, how you know he called people right away and asked him he can you come to Dallas and he's and helped me represent the Harpy Oswald and you know, his his secretary inexplicably said no, she couldn't come, which I thought was very
strange. But once he uh, once he realized how deep this was, and Garrison started a reopening things and he started getting scrutinized because you look, you look at read Dean more Than Andrews Warren Commission testimony, and we I think it's so valuable that we included it as a as an appendix. You know, for people who hadn't read it. It's if you've read and you know, I'm sure you have checked. But if you've read the Warren Commissions
hearings and exhibits, you know they're very dry. They're mostly irrelevant or are hardly ever interesting. You have to really search for those needles in a haystack. But Dean Andrews testimony, I call it the Beatles testimony of the war. I mean it's it's it's the top one. It's it's the you know, it's number one with a bullet. I mean, you've got to read any of the testimony. Read Dan Andrews TESTI first of all, it's just
entertaining as hell because of his beating a lingo. But he you know, he just he just brings up at one point where he says, there's two people I want to find, and one of them is this Burton character, and the other one is the real guy that Shatley. Every eyswall and you can see that, you know, the council saying, what do you mean you insinuated that it wasn't like archives. I know, damn you know, I know, good and will it wasn't him, and so people have to
read it. That's why we included it in there, because it's uh and Dean, Dean the third really hadn't read it, and I said, you know, you got to read this, man, I mean, this is incredible. And he recognized because what we got from him, and you can see in the interviews that that Wayam conducted with him, which of course,
you know, form a good part of the book, the transcripts. But Dean described how his father, you know, in behind the scenes while he participated in the NBC white paper, you talked about the smear job on Garrison, which was so one sided. They had to provide him with thirty hours of response time. Back when they did that thing, they allowed that a fair time rebuttal but yeah, the fairness doctrine still held that he had the ability to reply, so they gave it to him and black and white,
mind you in the middle of the night, but here you go. Yeah, yeah, but I mean they recognized how that how one sided it was. But despite perdicipant, despite committing poetry behind closed doors. Dean Andrews Junior was incredibly paranoid. He did literally pretty much go crazy to a certain degree because he was he saw he knew all of them, and he said in many of his interviews that I you know, they they can kill the president.
I say, they could smash me like a bug. And one of his other great things I like to breathe, you know, And he talked about all the time that he knew, he knew all these people that were dying. He knew about the JFK witnesses, you know, the body count. He didn't want to become one of them, and so he uh, you know, he basically did all this out of self preservation, but it still destroyed his family. I mean, Dean the third was on track to
become a lawyer like his father. He dropped out of law school. His younger brother had problems for decades and just died I think last year or something. But he battled drugs his entire life. And you know, he he described, you know, coming home from school and not being as a little kid and he couldn't get in the house because his dad, Andrews would lock all the doors because out of fear that they were going to get him.
So that's how apparently he was. So in real life, Dean knew there was a conspiracy and he was afraid they were going to get him, and he was haunted by it for the rest of his life. I think he died at fifty nine or something like that, maybe run nineteen eighty, something like that. But it so it's a people get a real unique view of behind the scenes what this family was going through, and you're not going to
get that anywhere else, right. And the only other interesting scene, because Candy appears again in the JFK movie during the courtroom, rushes and does this whole thing where he denies that Clay Shaw is Clay Bertrand, which is a big deal because here's the thing in that phone call. Initially he says that
a guy named Bertrand asked him to represent Oswald. I mean that that's the point being made in the movie, and that's also part of that that's actually part of the testimony, right, I mean, no, yeah, that's what you know. Basically, when there were two things really that that triggered
Garrison's interest in it. Now it's it's it's I mean, I think that it was that that Auverstone got right, and that it was my hero Huey Long's son Russe along that I played by Walter Matthew and JFK who reignited his interests by Sam you know, the one you're talking about Baggie's drawers, and you know that the warrant Commission got it wrong, you know years later when he met him on a plane. But the other thing was reading because again
this is described like a young young dean. Dean the third told me, you know, he used to tell me to say, oh yeah, you know Garrison. Garrison used to call her house all the time. You know, you pick it up to young dean. Can I talk to your dad? You know? And so these these were old friends. They used to go to New Orleans Athletic Club regularly and stuff. So they socialized together. And uh so this name jumped out of him. Again. Garrison hadn't studied
these exhibits, just like the rest of America. He you know, early on he questioned David Ferry and you know again all this is and Jay and all of a sudden does a good job of you know, portraying this. And then there was a gap of a few years and then he you know, he gets you know, talked to on the airplane by Russell Long and then he starts looking at this stuff and he's first really drawn in by the testimony of his longtime friend Dean Andrews. Well you know what is this?
You know, yeah, because by that time he had started pouring over the volumes, right, and he's going through all kinds of stuff and just going, geez, what is going on here? Why are they and they show this in the movie. They're not asking the right questions, right and not going back over stuff. Why the hell is nobody doing this or that he's arguing with his wife over it because he's carrying the books everywhere. My understanding is he had three copies, by the way of the twenty six volumes.
He had one at the office, you know, in the house, one at his regular office as DA, and another copy somewhere else that he was constantly pouring over these things in between all of what he was doing in his life. Right. So then he runs across his friend in the volumes and you know, no index, so it didn't come to him, you know, immediately, but right, so, yeah, and what about that William I mean, it's it's an incredible peace that this guy runs across here's my
friend, right, and he knows there's a connection. Oswald was in New Orleans before this. You know, is there any indication that young Dean knew Oswald at some point? Did did Young Dean run across Oswald anywhere? You know? I mean they're in New Orleans together, Who the hell knows. It's kind of a huge city but a small town at the same time. What about that, William. I don't believe he ever ran across Oswald that
I can remember in our in our conversations. Yeah, the ones that we did, I think kind of get chiseled into stone was at we we nailed it down through uh dem the third that uh that Clay Bertrand was indeed clay Shaw. And that is a big, big thing in this case. And ye, you know, look, maybe one of you would like to describe why that is such a big deal, because, uh, there's the whole thing with horber Gosh and taking the uh I always mispronounced that guy's name.
But the policeman who's sitting there, you know, taking uh clay Shaw's intake when he's when he's been arrested, right, would one do you like to describe that? Don would you like to or would you like William to describe that to people? Uh? Yeah, well, I mean I'll take it. It's yeah, Officer habrig rst to whatever your parents. Yeah, he did put that down. Of course. It's a great scene in the movie where he u you know, the judge rules against him, and you know,
Garrison says, you're show my whole case. So you didn't have a case, Jimbo, if that's all you had, you know, but uh, you know, we go into why Garrison had to rely on something like that because his witnesses, key witnesses, David Ferry and obviously he died in a very strange circumstance, a lot of Old Valley the same day, fell on a hatchet through his head. He had tons of witnesses like Julianne Mercer that were scared to come forward. They could have offered something and h you
know, so he had it was in that climate. People were frightened. Even somebody like Beverly Oliver, who whatever you believe is she was really the Bullushka later or not, h was apparently scared too. So there's you know, there's there's the reason why the clay Burg in places. All the thing is crucial is because again and there, if people read the book there and I don't want to I don't want to give away a spoiler because I want
people to buy the book. But uh, Dean the third reveals something and obviously uh William knows that something is shocking about his father's stay in the hospital. He makes a shocking allegation there, so he you know, his father was in the hospital on the day of the assassination. Later that day, I guess late afternoon whoever he's called to, uh, maybe early evening,
I forget the exact time. But he's called by this guy Bertrand, who he knows is Bertrand, and Bertrand has uh has given him clients, the latinos, the gay cavalieros, all the way when he describes it in his testimony, and Uh again Oswalds isn't that million And that's why I say that these guys were all in that what I you know, I think personally, I think they were all working against each other. They might have all been
told the same thing. Garrison believed that Oswald was told was on assignment to infiltrate a plot to kill the president. And I personally believe they all might have been told the same thing and they're working at Creek cross purposes because they all were manipulated. Several of them were knocked off. But you know,
here you have and there's you know, why was he called? And how did how did Bertrand I think we raised that in the book, how did bertran You know, I think I think it was brought up by young Dean evens is how did he even know he was in the hospital because he said he wasn't it wasn't advertised, right, But somehow bertand knew how to contact it. So you know, he didn't call his house and they told him he was there, So somehow he knew how to contact He didn't imagine it,
he didn't hallucinate it or whatever. And you know, why why was he being why did they ask him? Was because he was the lawyer at the center. He was the lawyer who Oswald had gone to for his immigration problems with his wife. And you know he notably, you know, Dean
Dean Junior was grousing. Notably, I think Oswald note him twenty five bucks or something, and so, but all these guys, all these anti Castro Cubans that are part of this New Orleans ground level conspiracy, I think to provide a smoke street and get people misdirected to look at Cuba, which I think had nothing to do with the assassination as me personally. But again, all these players are are there in the same place, and Dean Andrews Junior
is right at the center. There's he's he's you know, he's providing legal services for all these anti Castro Cubans and for Oswald himself. So is that why he was called? I don't know. But then you know, if the conspirators contacted him, I didn't they know they were gonna knock Oswald off? I mean, I amn't really sure, and I think I I personally think Dean Junior probably had a lot of these questions running through his mind too. Is probably driving him crazy. You know, why did they call me?
Especially after Oswald was shot and killed? He probably didn't know what to think. And uh, you know, I think that's reflected kind of a little bit in his warm commission testimony. But obviously it's crucial because then if Bertrand and in this in our book, Dean the Third you know, comes right out and says, yeah, clay Bertram is clay Shaw. Uh,
if they are one of the same person, then obviously clay Shaw. And we we go into this book goes into clay Shaw's connections and they go they go back to Operation paper Clip and the Perman decks and he's connected to everybody, to Alvin Oxner at the Oxnar Clinic, who was a notable doctor who serviced a lot of Third World dictators that tied in with the CIA, and who also that was the place, the actual clinic where Oswald's the best friend
in high school, Edward bobl died mysteriously. And this is, you know, one of the exclusives we have in this book is we talked to his sisters, the family of Bobel, who talked for the first time on the record, and they have some very interesting things to say. Right. So again, the name of the book is Pipe the Bimbo in Red Dean Andrews, Jim Garrison and the Conspiracy to Kill JFK. That's the full title,
just so you know. And it's got a red cover which I'll put on the graphic for this show and give you a link to go pick it up. Amazon is the main place to pick it up currently, right right, Don, Well, yeah, I mean we don't care. You look for the best deal. I mean, you know your authors get so little from their books, and just get the best deal you again, Yeah, you'd be happy if you might definitely get it U And I'm telling you now it's also by the way, I always like to make this special note, it's
not an overwhelming book. It doesn't bore you to death like some people's writing on the Assassination has in the past few years. I'm just telling you now it is an interesting read and it's filled with a lot of fascinating stuff.
Now, before we go any further, I'm actually gonna introduce through fair use, I'm gonna introduce the audio of the clip that we were talking about from the movie JFK, and then kind of let William Law pick up on this from here for a minute and tell you a little more about what's in the book. But then I got my hard questions coming up after that, So let's take a listen to this clip together. This is again John Candy portraying Dean Andrews, not the third but his father, Dean Andrews Junior, the
bimbo in red. Wait a minute, we got to back that up. We got to back that up to catch the whole thing. Hold on, here we go pipe the bimbo in red. Oh yeah, she's a kid, all right, but not half as kidd as you, Dino. Thank you. You should try a legitimate line of business. Why are you dancing on my head for my man? We've been thick of molasses past this, just conn and me, Dean. I read your testimony the Warm Commission go
again, granted suits album. The day after the assassination, you're called on the phone by this Clay Bertrand and asked to fly to Dallas and be lee Oswa's lawyer. Right, that's pretty important, Dean. You also told the FBI that when you met him he's six foot two. Then you tell the commission he's five foot eight. Now, how the hell does a man shriek like that? Dean? They put the heat on my man, just like
you doing. I gave him anything that pop in my KVASA. Truth is I never meant the dude, oh wonderful one likes friends that have friends. Indeed, I don't know what the cat look Okay, now I want to just point this out. I'm interrupting the clip for one good reason. He
says, I never met the dude. Then Oliver Stones very skillfully shows you him sitting in the same room with who the Tommy Lee Jones figure who is clearly Clay Shaw slash Bertrand, and they're having this discussion while they're about to have a drink together. So I love that little quick cutaway during this discussion between Garrison and Andrews in the restaurant, and I just wanted to point that out since I'm not able to show it to you visually. It is really
I love the art of this picture above all else. I want to want to tell you when it comes to the movie JFK. But let me just continue the audio clip a little more. Looks like and for them all. I don't know where he's at. All I know is sometimes he sends me some cases. So one day he's on the phone talk with me about going to Dallas. Read them Oswald if there was speak to dollars, Walden Ballance. Hell no, like I told that Bertram cat right off. This ain't
my scene, man, I deal in Munich court. I'm a hacking Nick the whole commission d Like I told you the Washington boys. Bertrand called that summer and asked me to help the kid upgrade his marine discharged. Well, I was led to believe that mister Bertram said that he would take care of all. Hello to whom am I speaking, I'm Claire Burton. Whatever they are guarantee there wasn't no conspiracy, jimmet, they will. Why the hell didn't Bobby Cannedy prosecuted as a tiny general. He was his brother, for
Christ's sake. Fuck all those people can keep a secret like that. I don't know it was Oswald. It was a fruit communication problem, Dean. I know you know who clad Bertrand is. All right, I stopped beating that damn crab. Meet, I met, and listen. I'm aware of our friendship. But I want you to know I'm gonna call you in front of the grand jury. You lie the grand Drudgys. You've been lying to me. I'm gonna charge you with perjury. And I took nine judges on
right here in New Orleans, Dino, I beat them all. So am I communicating with you. It's just off the record that HEO good and that case let me sum it up for you real quick. If I answer that question, you keep asking. If I give you the name of the big Enchilada, you know then it's bon Boyard Dino. I mean like pluming it. I mean like a bullet my head. You dig your mouse fighting a gorilla ken? This is is that grab meat? The government still breathes.
If you want to line up with a dead man lips? Do you know either you dancing or the grand jury with the real identity of clid Bercher your bat behinds going to the slam and now you did me. He was crazy, so mama goes to show it to the jeans. Give you any idea what you're getting yourself into, daddy O, The Government's gonna jump all over your head, Jimbo and go cock a doo do doo. Good babies. Okay, Now there is a lot of information built into that clip, the
idea that you know he says, you're as crazy as your mama. Guess what Garrison's mother had mental disorders that Andrews knew about because he knew him real well. Okay, there's all sorts of information in there. His response to his Warren commissioned stuff. I must have imagined it. I told those Washington boys pretty much everything Don just explained to you in fifteen minutes is in that two minute clip, one way or another, which I think is remarkable.
William, this clip is in and of itself. I mean again, it's less than two minutes, but it's a masterful piece, loaded with all sorts of subtext that I guess inspired mainly this this book where again, and I see it as strange because I wouldn't think of you as and Jefferies as the same kind of writer, although you have similar interests. So is this really the total inspiration for how this thing was built? Is just this clip? Is this the whole thing? Well, I've always had a soft spot in
my heart for Garrison. I named the middle name of one of my sons Garrison. His name is Sean Garrison, and that's after that's after Jim Garrison. And as a matter of fact, years and years ago, when he was a little boy, I met Joan Mellon and she had just come out with a book on Garrison, and I had her autograph it to him. And when I when I gave it to him, he looked at the inscription
and and said, does this mean, I'm famous. Nice Nice was it the Was it a farewell to justice or was it the other Garrison book about the rest of his life? I believe it was a farewell to justice.
This is a number of years ago. He just turned twenty nine, so and he was a little boy five or six, So that'll tell you how long ago it's been, right, right, Okay, So anyway, continuing on, though, it seems like that clip actually has, like I said, all the text and subtext from all the stuff that Don described and the inspiration in the book built into it in that two minutes there, which is pretty remarkable, and that's why I figured we had to play it in comments
on it. So it is a great scene. It's a great clip. It sums up a lot of things in a very short period of time, and of course I love Candy's performance in it. Right. I think in that time frame of a couple of minutes, he captured he captured the Dean Andrews and his son basically said, yeah, he did a very good job of capturing my dad's lingo and things like that. The one thing that came across to me was that that I think if I had met Dean Andrews.
I would have really enjoyed him. You know, he was outside of the outside of the Kennedy thing that he was involved with and all that dark stuff. He seemed to be a really fun guy that I would really enjoy talking to. Well, is the son very much like the father in that way? Do you do you get the same feeling like he's very much like his dad? Or is he very different? What would you say about that?
Is there a like, oh, clearly we know who's you know? You see you see my daughter for instance, you know in about five minutes, if you know me, that's my daughter. But you know, is it like that where it's like, wow, okay, I can see Dean Andrews the second clearly coming through Dean Andrews the third, or no, in talking to him, I basically talk to him. I did not meet with him.
Don could answer that better than I can. But yeah, he's got quite a sensive humor, not pretentious at all, just just lays it out there. For he's got some wonderfully funny stories talking about driving the cab at one point. Yeah, just a wonderful character, just like his father. Take that on, Donald, Yeah, Don tell us about it because you've had dinner with the guy and everything, so you've had a chance to observe
him physically as well. I guess. I guess. So Williams just talked to him over the phone and stuff, right, Yeah, he was a guest, regular guest over here, and I he's you know, he's living and he lives in Section eight housing. He's got a little place and he I go over there. In fact, I need his birthday's June ninth, and I need to go over there and I'll take him out to lineeshit. I've been doing that and using the woman that takes care of him and goes
there day. She comes along too and eats with us. But he's he's always he is always entertaining. He's very funny, but there's a sense of sadness about him. You know. Sometimes he'll kind of talk about his life, and he understands the fact that his father got drawn into the garrison.
His father got that his father never got that phone call in the hospital, his life would be completely different, but he did, for whatever reason, he got it, and he got sucked into it, got sucked into the Garrison investigation, and their lives were never the same, and his lives is never same. He was on track to be a lawyer. Instead he ended up, as William said, he drove a cab for years in New Orleans and also learning. He had some very colorful stories to talk about John Goodman
and some other people, and I used to love hearing those things. And he is, he's a very colorful storyteller, and he he really had a lot to offer. And it's a it's a shame that, you know, he ended up. His life was spent in you know, trying to get help and not making enough money. Really, so he's on s SDI as my brother was. Again that's how they met, you know, because they
had a lot of the same things going on. They both were on SSDI, they both you know, qualified for special housing and so they just you know, obviously came from different worlds. But you know, it was a far cry from the way he was raised because again they were his father was an affluent lawyer and very well known in New Orleans. But he's he's always great to talk to. But I always feel a little sad for him too, because you know, you look at because he said, but I think
he's seventy. I think he's going to be seventy one. Well, is he? Is he happy with the way the book turned out? I mean, your brother was also a colorful character. To my understanding too, you and I talked about your brother quite a bit. Uh. And from what I understand and from what I heard from others, even your brother was an interesting guy. Uh, you know, and and that's clearly Dean Andrews was also an interesting guy. Dean Andrews the second was an interesting guy and had
an interesting son as well. So I guess he retained some of his father's colorful characteristics. But he's a different sword of dude. Okay, fair enough. So is he happy with the book? Does he like out turned out? Yeah? Tell me about that. He's very happy with it, and he's I think he's he's read it two or three times, and I know he Uh. I gave him copies for his sisters, I think, to send to them. I think he didn't think his mother, you know again,
his mother doesn't like him be reminded of it. I forget how many copies that game, but I know I gave him alice for resist. I never heard what they thought of it, because they were all he was also supposed to be working on getting some of his William not City Wayam wanted him very badly to see them writings. His father had stories and stuff he had written, and so we thought that would be we would have been really cool to include the book. But he was never able to get his hand.
We were lucky we got the photos we got because that wasn't easy for them, because again, he's he's here in northern Virginia and his rest of his family is his mother and sister in New Orleans. And you know it's I mean, I don't I think he gets along okay with his sisters, but I'm sure they look at him the way most of my family looked at my brother. You know that he's on SSDIS you know, you know what it is. It's hard to judge because in family dynamics there's always stuff there that
is unspoken and really not accessible to people outside of the family. And this guy let you in a bit. And the photographs, that's another good point to bring up here. Uh And and in fact, i'd like to get both of your commentaries on this, because you have some interesting images in here, including on the front of the book. I think there's a photo of Dean Andrews. I don't think I've ever seen it before. What is the the image of Andrews from there on the front of the book? Do you
remember Do you know where we got that? Do you remember where we got that one? From? Way? Is that is that it might have been something Chris that was our publisher that found out. Yeah, I think Chris, Chris Milligan pulled up. Okay. It's an interesting image though, because there's not that many pictures of them. You know, there's stills from the NBC thing out there, right, and there's like one other black and white interview that he gave at some point for some TV station. But you don't
see a lot of imagism out there. So I found that one kind of interesting. But anyway, yeah, so what about the what else could we say here is a good selling point for the book? How about William? You give us a good point here? What is it that somebody could learn in this book or get a new insight on that is different from other volumes? It is different, by the way, it is a unique volume. I'll tell you again. It's not a gigantic, hard to read thing either
that takes you a long time. It's entertaining. It moves along quickly, even though they are laying out a lot of interesting information here, mainly guided by Don's style. I think throughout the book that's what I read from it. But I mean, what is another good selling point? What else can somebody get out of this book, William, that they probably won't get out of any other You know what I really like about this particular book is that I think, you know, we put we put skin on the bones of
this man. We show you that he was more than the person in the movie that we give you his character it. Like I said, I think he was a He was a fun, gregarious guy that if he hadn't been touched by the jfk assassination, he might have gone on to have his dream of the jazz festival that he loved so much. He loved music, he loved people. He was good to people that didn't have anything. And you'll find that out when when you read it. I love I love knowing the
backstory of the people that I write about. It's as interesting to me as the main story they may be involved in. Well here's a specific question, then, William, what about the look John Candy great portrayal? But we get no sense that he has children. We get no sense that he's even got a family. Dean Andrews, the character in JFK. Right, just from the film, What about that aspect? Do you get an idea what kind of father he was, and how what kind of husband he was all
that kind of thing. Do you get that, goodhead, Dean? You get that. I was very interested in him as a person, Dean, but his father. I wanted to know everything I could get about his dad. He tells a story about taking him and his sister to a Beatles concert when they were on score. It was sixty four, and he talks about all the girls just going absolutely nuts. And I think it was toward the
end of the concert. At the end of the concert, he sees he's pointed out by his kid that this little girl is about to jump over the balcony to get, you know, to the floor. And he's so freaked out by this. He goes and he leaps out of his seat and he goes and he gets this kid and keeps her from jumping, you know, off of this thing where she could have been killed or hurt. Right, I mean, it's just things like that that you aren't gonna hear that anywhere
else? You know? Right? Well, and now I'll turn to down on this because is there a sense do you get a before and after the Garrison slash, you know JFK involvement, because look, clearly there's a story from sixty four there regarding the Beatles that's previous to the Garrison investigation. Do you get a serious change? You know, at some point here you lay it out and say, look, this is the guy before, this is the guy after all these things went down. Do you get that transition noted
and kind of laid out the book as well done? Oh? Yes, definitely. I mean there's a there's a demarcation point definitely from the time that Andrews got sucked into the Garrison investigation. That was it. I mean their their lives are never the same. I mean their their marriage was lucky to stay together, you know, Jim Garrison didn't so many you know, somebody
whistleblowers and before they end up their families abandoned them. Well, you know, Garrison's wife dies, you know, and why it's so cogn you to watch Kevin Castro say, damn live, I got can't fight the whole world and you too, well, and she ended up, you know, siding with the whole world because she ended up. And one of the great revelations in the book is from our friend John Barber, who contributed a lot to
it too. And you've probably heard that story, but I think if you want to know what kind of person Jim Garrison was, he tells the story of how when Garrison was dying and hospital and again his wife had Liz had abandoned him years before, it turned her back on him when he needed her most, and so he had every right to hate her, to resent her. Instead, he demanded she be called to his betside and remarried to her
so she could collect his lucrative pension as a judge. Right. Yeah, yeah, to me, that says, I don't know how many people would
have that kind of character. Well, that's a great story. And yeah, John told that story on this show and I went over that with Joan Mellon, and you know, it's it's a fairly well known story, but it's interesting because again in that movie Sissy Spacek, I think it is place Liz Garrison, right, and she, you know, is constantly seemingly battling with Jim about Look, you know, you're getting more into this than you
are your own family and everything else. And I think that is a dynamic that needs to be explored in every one of these characters, whether they're getting involved directly an investigation or you were a rece urcher at some point. I gotta be honest with you. Your family, the people that are around you one way or another turned to you and say, what the hell man? You know you are putting so much time and effort and energy into this. I mean, even if you're not writing a book like don you know,
they altern to you and say, what are you doing? You are putting more time into this than you are us. You're putting more time into this than you are the things you usually care about, et cetera, et cetera. And that's a line of demarcation. As William Law so aptly coined the phrase you know that that exists I think in the character of anybody who steps into the pray regarding this. What are your thoughts there? Don Yeah, well, and I think you can look at behind the scenes and we get
a sense of that. And Dean the third talking to William and it comes out in there. He tells a lot of the Great Beatles anecdote, and there's a sense that his father was very funny. He used to talk about at home, and I think he looked at him, you know, really favorably before that. Now I guess he was maybe he was. He was traveled quite a bit. He talks about the strange trips and Wallim could probably
talk to that better than he took to Washington, DC. And he he thinks something fishy would have been going on with his dad, with his connections before, because he used to take these trips and he didn't really understand why, couldn't explain them well. But they were a very stable family doing well before it. But from the time he, you know, again, he became involved in the Garrison investigation, suddenly, I imagine they were probably scenes
like they were in the Garrison household, on a much smaller scale. I'm sure his wife, because I know how bitter she still is about it. She never recovered from it, and she thought to her husband was crazy, and I tried to tell her, no, he wasn't crazy at all. You know, this was this was a real thing, and he got himself in the middle of it. I'm sure he didn't know what to do.
And he lied to try to protect you guys, probably, but I'm sure there were those kinds of things where she was probably maybe mad at him, just like Garrison's wife was. Although his case that was ridiculous because all he was was the guy got a phone call in the hospital. You know,
he wasn't he wasn't trying to reopen an investigation. But sometimes it shows what happens when you know, people can the victim of circumstances where you just you're just you know, something like that have And I get the sense that then Andrews never really figured out why he got that call. But that's his connection to the Kennedy assassination. If he had never gotten that call, he would never been testified before the Warren Commission. Probably none of us would know who
he was. Well, maybe there's somebody, some deep researcher might have found that, you know, this is the lawyer that Oiswald went to to help with his dishonorable deschrudge or something. But that was his connection there. So he's at the heart of the text because without him we don't know about the clay Bertrand alias exactly. And that's the interesting thing here, so to kind
of close this out. I want to go to William Law and you know, look, this isn't unusual character who if he had never been touched by the Garrison investigation, if he had never been pulled into this, he would still have been an unusual and colorful character. It seems like h Dean Andrews the second and of course his son is along for the ride. So you get a sense of that, I guess in the book the before and after. What are your thoughts on that though? Do you think that you know?
Look, I think or the scary part is he did know why he got that call, or he did know a lot more and needed to shut it down. Is that the sense you got from it, William, that you know this guy knew a lot more, probably could have created a stir for people that didn't want anything stirred in that pot? Is that the sense you get? What do you get he was afraid? I think he was
afraid because he did no more. He was He was friends with Carlos Marcello as well, and Dean talks about meeting him and that sort of thing, and there was at one point where he feels he saved Marcello's life. I'll let people read the book to find that one out. But Dean Andrews knew a lot of people. I think there's a lot about him that even with what we know, we don't know all of it, not by a long shot, nor does his son. But I think that's that's why in the
end he was so frightened. I do think that that he came to believe that he was being used and that after the whole thing was over, his life was still in danger. I think that's what drove him crazy. And even without the representing Oswald phone call, right, I mean, you could be still writing a book about a guy who was well hooked into the CD underbelly, if you will, of the society in New Orleans at the time, because he knew people across the spectrum, right, I mean, he
was representing not necessarily all the high profile, big name clients. He was handling a lot of you know, he says even in that clip, right, municipal court. Uh you know, I I heard that jump out of the lingo real fast. There he's going to family court and handling you know, some of the most really ridiculous, time consuming, uh non profitable cases in the New Orleans underbelly, and he seemed to know people from all walks of life. At least that's the way I understand it is that Is that
accurate to your mind? Too? Well? Yeah, yeah, absolutely, I think that was that was all part of it. I do want to leave this one cautionary tale and that that with you know, I still find it amazing all this time later, that that, you know, when Dawn first told me that that he knew Dean Andrews the Third and he's just real casual about it. Yeah, And I'm like, you know Dean Andrews the Third, Well have you done anything with that? Well? Yeah, his
mother comes over for then he comes over. He's friend, he is my best my brother's best friend. And I said, you're dealing with a historical character and you have access to this character and you haven't written about it yet. And I said, do you ever think about writing about that? And he said, I don't know that there's a book there, and you know, I almost fell over. You know, sometimes you can get so used
to these people. It's like I've known a number of people that were involved in some way from the the JFK case for so long, so many years that after a while they stopped being a source, they start being friends, they start being a close friend of yours, and you know, it's it's just like with Jim Jenkins, that is the last man standing, so to speak, from that era. I'm very close with him, but it took
years. Years. I was very close with Paul O'Connor, and you you stop looking at them as this historical figure and just realize that they're human beings. But at the same time you have to keep in mind that these are historical characters that they need, they need to be treated with that respect. And sometimes we can lose lose that if we get too close. Yeah, I know, with all you write, researchers out there, keep that in mind. If you know these people, get their story. It's important,
Yeah, get their stories and don't get bogged down in silliness. I got bogged down in silly arguments with James Tag, you know, before I ever got a chance to do anything with him, And you could get bogged down. He loved to talk, yes, and he would get me on the phone sometimes and I'd be on there for hours with him and I couldn't I couldn't get off the phone with him. But a lot of times it would be because I didn't jump to agree with something and it didn't necessarily have to
do with the case. It could have in anything, and he would spend literally two hours trying to drag me over to his side of whatever argument it was that he thought I had with him. Uh, and it didn't matter. You know, does that sound does that sound like the guy? You know? I told him I was writing something I can't remember what it was years ago, and he says, well, you know, there's really no
use because I've solved the case. Yeah. Oh that was. Yeah, that was when he came out with his UH a little while later, his uh Linda Johnson did it book right, And yeah, he started telling everybody I've got it all solved now. Yeah, that was finding how many people that you talked to? I have. I have a friend that also in the New Orleans area and she's an actress, and she says to me one
time, I haven't got it all figured out yet. I'm I'm trying, but you know, it's not something you can go in and just I've been at this for thirty five years now and I haven't got it all figured out right. You know, have you got it all figured out. No, And you know, as a as these guys die one by one, at some point I'm going to be the senior member of the researchity. They got Robert Groaden, I don't know who else left. And I started in the
mid seventies as a teenager with Mark Walliamson group. So it's been a long time and the only the only thing that's solidified for me is obviously knowing that people ask me to kill jfkn. I always tell them all they inadvertently proved that. It's definitely proved it wasn't our eyesball. Now who else I don't know. You can, we can speculate, and and that's with this book. I mean there's it's not really speculation, but I hope that you know.
And again, the research community is and William and I talk about this all the time. The research community won't be kind to this book. They never are to either one of our works. They just ignore us pretty much. So it won't matter really what is and that's a natural demographic. That the natural demographic for this book, it should be the research community. But they they have never supported me, and they have been not very kind.
William is the most underappreciated researcher out there. I think, uh so, they're not gonna and having his name associated with me is not going to win him. He's got gonna win him any new people from the research community, So they're they're not going to start now. But you know, I think we demonstrate clearly here that there's a distinction between the real conspiracy, which I think was the top levels of the government, you know, you know,
however you want to delineate that. I think Oliver Stone got it pretty much
right. Something in the air Consortium of forces within the CIA, the military adjustrial Complex, the Pentagon and everything got together and they had an invested interest obviously and in getting rented GfK. But I think they created this that they put Oswald into the millstrom of a Milly of New Orleans, put him in there, interacted with all these interesting characters like Banister and Ferry and all the anti Castro Cubans that had their own intelligence ties in many cases, and we're
being manipulated as well. I think Shaw was the only member, and that's why he gets more attention in this book, because I think Shaw was was a cut above. I think he was probably the conduit between the ground level conspiracy in New Orleans with all these players are being manipulated and the real conspirators in Washington, DC or wherever. And I think he was connected to them. And you look at his his connections and they were at a whole different
level. This guy was, you know, he was sitting on the board of perm Indecks with you know, people that were connected to Hitler and the President of Hungary and all these really powerful figures. And he wasn't like the others were had their connections. But there's no question that Shaw was was the key man in that conspiracy. And I don't think I think Garrison understood that, But I don't know for sure. I think Garrison did the best he
could where Shaw was the biggest fish he could find. Well with all with all the chaos that you know, overran Garrison's investigation, some of the stuff he brought upon himself, honestly, because he invited a whole lot of people in I mean everybody from May Brussel to uh you know, so Weisberg showed up there to help him out, you know, one way or another, and some people not to be so helpful, but maybe just to plant you know, listening devices, you know this kind of thing. It's it's quite
a it's quite a mess. It's almost amazing that he kicked over any of the right rocks, considering all the interference there, not the least of which came from Bobby Kennedy as well. But that's a story for yet another day. This one is Pipe the Bimbo and Red Dean Andrews, Jim Garrison and the Conspiracy to Kill JFK. And the authors again, William Matts in Law and Donald Jeffries, in no particular order. I'll swap orders on those.
I don't know which order they are, and I think Jefferies is listed first on the book, doesn't matter. The cover of the book is in red. And both of them have given you a very good indication for why it is. This is an interesting, valuable and unique volume in your jab going to Chuck o'chelly, he's Shark or Shelley. You know it's Shark Shelley.
You are about doing marking upon the great who say the eyes of the world out upon you, The hopes and prayers of liberty loving people everywhere march with you in company with our brain allies and brothers in arms on the other front. Your task will not be an easy one. Your enemy is well trained, well equipped, and battle heart He will fight savage, command the man. The tide has turned. The free men of the world are marching together
to victory. Good luck, and let us all be seeking the blessing of Almighty God upon this great and noble undertaking. Going to Chuck o'chelly, you're Shark of Shelley. You know it's Charcolly. You are about to embark upon the great brusade. The eyes of the world are upon you. The hopes and prayers of liberty loving people everywhere march with you, in company with our brave allies and brothers in arms on the other front. Your task will not
see an easy one. Your enemy is well trained, well equipped, and battle heartened. He will fight that the man demand. The tide has turned. The free men of the world are marching together to finger it. Good luck, and let us all be seeking the blessing of Almighty God upon this rape and noble understand Oh Chili dot com, go ahead, call it the truth about the Jafa assassination. Right, well, what do you want to know? Tony Baker's wild claim Oswall girlfriends he knew, Ruby and Barry answer
weapons, Really, I imagine I could claim I have four wheels. It doesn't make me a wagon, but okay, I'm Bilby and trying to prevent the murder of John Kennedy. Come on now has a real effort on the DAFA assassination. Go to Amazon dot com enter Judith Baker in her own words. You'll get the results for a digital copy of a book where Walt Brown utilizes her own words and the known evidence in the case to get at well
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use expressed by caller school. Is there anyone else who happens to get on the air to Jelly dot com do not necessarily reflect the views of the Jelly dot com or Joco Jelly, and we are not responsible for any stupidity which might ensue. Thank you in denial the Secret Wars with air Strikes and Tanks by Larry Hancock. Secret wars became a staple of US covert operations and are still happening today. Larry Hancock's book In Denial rips the cover off many of
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