The Ochelli Effect 5-16-2025 Friday Night Open Mic with B Pete

Get ready, get ready for you.

Know, it looks like it's the sixteenth day I guess of May? Is that right? Sixteenth day May? All right? Anyway, yeah, there it is not the eydes of March, but a day after the IDEs of May whatever, fifteen days after May Day. It is what it is. It was what it was, and hey, you know, adventures in the Middle East to side. Here we are. It's Friday and open mic time, so let's get to it. Uh three one nine, five two seven five zero one six is still the number to call in. And we've got at least four

Oh, it's been a busy week.

We've been dodging a lot of rain two I mean off of all every day, so trying to get your work done and between that's been a little hard to do. But other than that, busy online, you know, with the government now that I'm retired individual and subject to the large as such society that I paid for with taxes all these damn years.

But other than that, it's been.

A good week.

Just reading the story here, it's funny story picked up on a Detroit TV station that happened in Charlotte here in the state of my Choosing. The manager at Popeye's was arrested for attempted first degree murder after shooting a co worker during an argument over burnt biscuits.

Burn biscuits.

It's getting bad out there, man.

You can't even go to work at bo Hangile's without taking a chance of taking a shot.

That's rough, man. You know they closed the Bojangles. You know when you came to visit me, was there a Bojangles still down the street from us?

I think there was?

I think so.

I think there was pasted on the way to the place where we got cigarettes.

Yeah, I think so, right, because we ended up going to Lolo or something to go get cigarettes because we got the circle k on the corner and then the next block over used to be a Bojangles, but they pulled it, and apparently they pulled a whole bunch of them. They even closed some Popeyes in the city, which is weird, weird, but they were claiming supply chain issues.

And about a couple of Popeyes up this way.

Yeah, I mean Bojangles. Isn't that from North Carolina? That chicken franchise or what. Yeah.

In fact, they were quartered in Charlotte, and yeah, they started in this area, started branching out. They're one of the success stories of fast food.

Well, you know what another success story is, and I don't even know why. It's a success story from the Northeast and from a bad part of the northeast. Really Connecticut subway. Oh my god, I cannot stand that there are subway restaurants everywhere. And the reason why there are is because they were the cheapest franchise to buy for a very long time, you know. Yeah.

Yeah, And they don't they don't take up a lot of room. They're one of the few fast food companies that can be retrofitted into kiosks because they really don't need a lot of room.

Yeah, kiosk. You can put them into a modular situation where you have, like, you know, a couple of different things, like say you got a a convenience store, right, and you've got okay, I want to put a fast food in here, and then I also want to put a service in here, you know, and you want to put a couple of slots. They can design it for that too. They crunch it down and make the fridge small and everything, you know, as long as you got.

One thing I hate about that though, is when you get a bunch of those chains together in the little chios sections, it really puts a hamper on what can be sold in the adjoining convenience store.

Yeah, well did they They don't. I was just going to ask you, did they put Papa John's in your circle case yet?

No, They've Circle K's been trying to trying to keep up with Speedway when it comes to pizzas and things like that, food choices, and they've modernized a lot of Circle K's up here to put in newer stuff to allow for food. But they don't. Their problem is staff not keeping it stocked. That's their biggest issue. Speedway took over on that. Now, I'm sure.

See now you think that you think that's an issue. I got to tell you something about that though, because Kim occasionally goes down and does what like a smart shift for the Circle K. And the thing is they don't have a problem with stocking the food corporate tells them not to. They're only supposed to put out like exactly what they used the day before, basically, so they never they don't want waste.

Yeah, I understand that these stores up here though, are severely lacking on stocking and subways kicking their butt. Yeah, but they breakfast at lunch.

But they've done it here too, where they put up one rack of hot dogs and that's it for the day. Hey, how can that be possible in a busy city like this? Right? One rack of hot dogs for the day. And they got rid of the original Circle K pizza and they put in these Papa John's minis, which is weird because now you got raceway going into yours. I don't know, it's like Circle K like play in the field here or what I think.

So the Speedway just got bought out last year by seven to eleven, so they're slowly making the transition over to seven eleven, which we didn't have a lot of seven elevens in this area, and they were usually more expensive than all the other convenienced zones. And now that they bought out Speedway, they the prices are starting to go through a roof. I used to get a whole pizza for six bucks. Now it's eleven dollars, ten dollars.

Now you know what's weird about that? I read an article that possibly Circle K was going to buy Southland, and I was like, when the hell did they get that big? But and they came from.

Kay's pretty big because you got to realize Circle K used to be the Circle K and Kangaroo and they bought up Kangaroo stores.

See. Now, the first time I ever heard of a circle K was in that Bill and Ted movie, Remember the Bill and Ted's Excellent Adventure, like in the eighties. Yeah, that's the first time I ever even heard of a Circle K. And then I don't know, I thought they were in Florida or something. And then they just started springing up in a lot of places and they bought the kangaroos or they took over the kangaroos I should

Know Kingston as smile as it was.

It ended up when Circle K bought Kangaroo, they ended up with four stores in the city, each other had two. And when they merged and then they closed down the ones that weren't as profitable. But it's getting tough because now wah Wah has come down from Pennsylvania and is opening up places BUCkies, the huge place we stopped there in Texas. They're opening up stores. It's getting to be cut throat out there.

Yeah, it's getting weird. Look, if wa Wah comes down here, I'm gonna be happy because I like the way Wawah runs. But they don't have a store. The closest thing you got to ahuah Wah in this area at all, like any part of the South is Sheets, you know. Uh, But wah Wah had, you know, like the best, like just quick, quick, easy, cheap subs. They used to have. They had all kinds of hospitals.

Yeah, the owner of Sheets sent as kids to school up at the High Point University. And I got to talking with a couple of them when we were when I worked for DOT, I had to go and inspect their connections with the our road race system and.

All that, and.

So I got to talking to them, and I mean they started just to take on wah Wah. So now we've got both Pennsylvania big competitors down here.

Nice. Uh Okay, so it looks like we do have a caller. But again I'll give the number out three one nine five two seven, five zero one six. I know I talk fast, but I try to slow it down. Three to one nine five two seven five zero one six. That's still the number until things change here. And we're still playing around with a couple of different setups, trying to get the best deal because I'm gonna pay somebody.

But how you doing, Chris Graves?

How you doing?

Oh it's Chris? Okay, how you doing? Chris? I know you and I spoke yesterday off there, but.

Yeah, no it was great.

Yeah, so how you doing tonight?

We are you just wondering? I'm just wondering. I always thought bo Jangles was like a blues guitar player from like the forties, by BB King's sidekick or something.

No, he was like a dancing bo Jangles. Let me let me see if I can explain. I don't know, you know what. Maybe I should go to the Wikipedia on this, because bo Jangles was a kind of a figure who I recall was a black guy who danced. That's all I know about him. But let me, let me look that up real fast. But it's it's a chicken joint in North Carolina that has spread out to some other parts of the South. And I had never heard of it until I moved to North Carolina. And

I'm in Massachusetts. I haven't even heard of it. So that's why, like how I'm trying to remember, like is like my history bo Jangles. I always thought was some kind of blues artist, uh, from like the forties, like in the same vein of like BB King. But you're telling me it's a chicken joint in like the South East.

Right, Yeah, well, okay, so his his Wikipedia reads like this and this is this is I told you off the top of my head, right who he was. But let's see, it looks like he uh let's see, Luther his real name was Bill Robinson, Okay, and uh, let's see it was an American tap dancer, actor, and singer, best known and most highly paid black entertainer in the United States during the first half of the twentieth century. So he was like, yeah, he was a guy from

I would hope so it's they're getting some kind of residuals.

Well, ye who knows, because you know, they had a bunch of different places that were named after people at one point that they you know, like different things happened, like the baby Roof candy are right, you know, Babe Ruth's family tried to sue over that. I think they finally settled it after like I don't know, one hundred years of the candy bar being made with his family,

But it was almost like a take on Cumberland Farms.

Kind of sort of but see Cumberland Farms is another one that used to exist when when I was a kid, and Krauser's was another one when I was a kid. These were convenience stores in the Northeast, but Krausers got like dissolved into a whole bunch of independence stores. I don't think they exist anymore. There was quick Check quick Checkers another one.

Uh shouldn't there shouldn't be long before Chris's Bojangles up his way, because I mean what twenty twenty two they boat Angles opened ten locations in Jersey and they went north. They've opened in Vegas, moving east, and this last year they expanded into Phoenix.

Weird, and they kicked them the hell out of making Georgia's. I don't know what that says, but they were they Yeah.

Is Popeyees headquartered down there? Or they are they Atlanta? Or are they in Louisiana.

You know, I don't know where Popeyes. I would think would be in Louisiana, but you never know. Like I said, it's so strange to me that like subway comes from Connecticut and that that has continued to grow, because I would have thought that thing would have failed a long time ago. But it's so cheap and easy to buy, That's why. But otherwise, let me look up where what do you say, Popeyes? Where's their talk?

Looking forwards? Now, let's see Louisiana kitchen ink? Yeah, out of New Orleans.

Well, see that makes sense.

Now they're headquartered in Miami.

Now, okay, so they moved, Yeah, Miami funded.

In seventy two in New Orleans and.

Then right and and this again is the emergence of all these chicken places. I guarantee is post KFC's success, you know what I mean? Yeah, And that's a KFC's Louisville, Kentucky, right, pretty sure? Yeah, Yeah, that's right. But Miami, Miami's got a bunch of cores. Is it like Miami becoming like a big corporate center?

Now, yeah, because of their taxes.

Yeah, that's what it is, right, it is.

Texas and Florida. I mean they're going crazy.

Well, you know anytime you give them a tax break. I mean that's why Amazon does what it does, because they go everywhere where they get a special deal, you know. And that's why the Amazon warehouses pop. We got those here in making because you know, if you can what about.

What about truck?

What about pizza Hut? Because I know pizza Hut was like a Midwest thing, but it was all over the Northeast when I was a kid. And uh, now you can't find a pizza Hut unless it's like a carry carry out kind of thing, and it's not really the same, Like you don't like the salad bar and the buffet and everything. It's literally it's very hard to find.

Right.

Well, they were hurt a lot of COVID hurt, a lot of KFC or Pizza Hut locations. We had two shut down in Lexington and the only thing left was to carry out. But that's the problem is they're having to compete against Papa John's and Domino's and Little Caesars and the sit down restaurant part of it started failing. You know, people will getting it delivered to the house. Why go to Pizza Hut, So that's part of them. And then COVID all damn near killed them.

Well like COVID killed Chuck E Cheese and then Chuck E Cheese tried to rebrand itself with some other kind of pizza and you know, and that was laughable because who the hell was the chunky cheese for the pizza.

So let's see, Yes, kfcity is still in Louisville, Kentucky.

Yeah, KFC Okay, I.

Got checking Cheese was canceled way before the pandemic there, no, but see I thought so too, But no, that's really when it died.

It actually went out of business. Funny thing about Pizza Hut is I know, and it was very very strange that I know this, but I know they were founded in Wichita, Kansas And yeah, Dad heard that. Yeah, and I think they have since I'm looking now. See they're one of these ones that moved to Texas. Like BP was saying, because of the tax breaks, a lot of a lot of these corporate headquarters migrated to either Texas or Florida.

So bro and that's that's another problem for pieces of places like KFC and Pizza Hut. Not only is the competition getting harder, but you know they're not their own company. Now, KFC was bought by Young Brands, which also has oh crap, Burger King. I think Pizza Hut is in that group. So when you get one of these mega companies that buys several fast food joint Okay, well, we're gonna push

You know, it's a shame.

Pizza Hut and KFC were staples when I was growing up.

You see. Now Pizza Hut would probably be dead though without those modulars because they lost their their in house restaurant thing. Like you said, during the pandemic. They were just gone. And I never understood why Pizza Hut existed in the Northeast, because we had better pizza everywhere. Pizza Hut was like pointless to me, you know, it was like, why are you going to buy that. It's me it

Used to have the best day and lunch bufe though, so the money to her family is great, I'll tell you.

Yeah, like pizza is.

I never saw this buffet. I think Chris is the only person that ever mentioned it to me till you just mentioned it now, the Pizza Hut buffet. I never saw that.

Oh yeah, man, yeah, two thousand and five. Like I would go to the Pizza Hut buffet and literally it was like nine dollars, like with the tip included, and you can pretty much, you know, get your fix. And it was it was pretty good. And I know people will you know, look down on me for you know, you know, being like maybe that was you know, like the poor the poor person's buffet, but it was serviceable and it was pretty good. In my opinion.

Pizza buffets got me my wife in college.

Dude, listen, I was more than happy to you know, what place I loved for buffet was the They called it the Chot And I don't know where that restaurant came from, but there was a couple of them in Jersey, and they were the first place I ever saw with like all you could eat, like you know, shrimp, cocktail, shrimps. They weren't like the biggest shrimp, but they weren't the

So I'll be honest with you, that's like red Lobster.

I will take I will.

You know, take credit for putting them in the bankruptcy because when they had shrimp Fest going, it was so bad.

I'm the manager of the one there in Hickory.

He wad come in the door with my wife and he'd sit there and go, you know what, I'd do better to hand both of y'all fifty bucks and send you somewhere else because we would kill.

Them tony bucks. All the shrimp you could eat. Then, I eat so much shrimp scampy, you could have squeezed.

The garlic butter out of me.

When I got home.

Wow, Wow, you know what's funny is I'm looking up bread lobster because I was thinking to myself. Didn't they didn't they go out of business completely, but apparently now no.

They they filed Chapter eleven, came out of it, and I've seen ads now on they're running ads back in this area.

I've always loved red lobster.

Yeah, I'm looking at this thing. They've got like a order ahead menu, which is really weird for my area, Like you got to order ahead, okay, and they've got this. Yeah they got deals though, they got but they almost put it, didn't. They almost put themselves out of business with was it a crab legs or was it trip?

Well, they would have Crabfest and then they'd have lobster Fest, and then they'd have shrimp Fest, so one time during the year. Shrimp Fest was usually twice a year. It was all you could eat for a certain amount. You go in there and spend you know, twenty bucks a person, and hell, you'd end up eating seventy five dollars for seafood. I've kept them going, man. They finally got to me and said, well, you have to order. We'd like it if you'd order two orders at a time, just to

We're not fucking with them. We're here to eat shrimp.

Oh, but you've got to eat a cheddar baby biscuit. If you're a Red LOFs. You got at least.

Although I have to commend them though, they had the coldest pewter I think they were pewter bowls for their salad. It was so cold that I would have to ask them for a room temperature bowl.

It hurt my teeth so bad.

Wow that cold.

Wow Wow. See.

Red Lobster was another place I was happy to I accidentally, it was so funny. I accidentally gave out the weirdest tip ever had a red Lobster. When I was taking a girl out on a date in high school, I accidentally I separated my money into two piles, and I had a tip amount, and I had the check amount, and I gave the tip. I gave the check amount to the to the waitress as a tip, so she got a hundred. She got one hundred percent tip.

There was a score for her.

Yeah, no, that was listen, you know. And I was like sitting there, like, no, I don't care, order what you want, and like, you know, we ordered the biggest meals we could. So, I mean we each ordered like, say, thirty dollars meals. This is a nineteen like nineteen ninety, right, so we ordered, you know, the biggest meals we could. Yeah, sure,

The case things didn't work out with the day, right exactly. The waitress go back.

I'll go back and see the waitress later and be like, hey, honey, listen, Yeah.

Now, did you guys ever get into long John Silbers.

See, I only ever saw one of those in Jersey. Did you have those where you were at?

We?

We had them in h New England.

I know, I know you had them in New England, but I only ever saw one in Jersey.

I think we had one in Hicky and I want to see there was definitely want a couple in Charlotte, Okay. And then I'm trying to think anywhere else I've lived. I think there was one in Greenville for a while. Maybe wrong about that Greenville, but they were more fast food seafood than you know, sit down like you would have read lobster or something.

You know.

It was almost like a sonic Yeah, well you know they.

They were the first ones come out with like popcorn, shrimp and stuff from it, you know, for lunch. It was quick to pop in there. It was in a In fact, it was at the Walmart I think in Hickory. See there in and get lunch on thirty minutes and still have time to go do something.

The one town I lived in, uh in uh is for Cood River. There was a combination Kenny Rogers Roasters. I'm not kidding. By the way, Nathan's hot Dogs and Long John Silvers in one building. Okay, that was like this one stop shop for don't I don't know who decided to put these three together, but it was the weirdest thing because it was like the three most unpopular fast food joints decided to unify in the one building in this one town. And I'm like, so that that's

Wow.

Yeah, Arthur Treacher was like basically, I think like a Long John Silvers pretty much. I mean, they probably didn't even have to change much, but the signage, you know, and it was like it was like the same thing. And Nathan, Yeah it was weird.

And Arthur True or Gary Kleaner Fosters.

The same thing.

Yeah, okay, I never saw that. Well we all have you ever?

Did you have shones like around there? You know, the Andy Griffiths restaurant shoes?

But down south, you know, the only place I've seen shoes is on Rick and Morty. I've never seen a show.

Yeah, did you know that as of.

Last year. In April, there's only two author treachers left in the US.

No, I didn't see. There you go.

There's some chips.

Yeah, named that for some British guy. Okay, I think I've seen that logo.

He was like an actor or something, right, Yeah, I have.

No idea why to hell you know, fish and chips except the English.

There's two of them, and that's U Northeastern Northeast Ohio.

There you go. But like I said, it's really weird to watch, like, you know, after a while, like every town ends up with a McDonald's and a Burger King, you know what I mean. But these other things that have gone on, it's it's like weird switching. And I was trying to tell you, I don't know, did I mention this already that I read somewhere that that circle K was trying to buy seven eleven out which way.

You mean, it's going to be tough because seven eleven just fought Speedway last year or so or a year and a half ago. So it's gonna be a tough acquisition to buy seven eleven.

I don't know, you know, it depends on how it works out, because you know, much like with the weird thing that went on with the fast food restaurants. Like a few years back, they had this thing where it was like Coke and Pepsi were backing different restaurants, and so that was the competition for a little bit. Like there's a reason why you get a Dorito's Loco taco at you know, Taco Bell, right, because they're in bed with the Pepsi people, who are also in bed with

I don't know how we got into this, right, I brought a pizza hut in all these like defunt places.

But it's fun to think about Friendly's.

There was another one in the northeast that's almost gone.

Now, Oh that's too bad.

I did not know this, but Circle K is actually owned by Canadian company. Yeah. They started in Texas. Yeah, started in Texas. They're headquartered in Tempe, Arizona. They're owned by Alimentation Couche tard Inc. Based in the volt Quebec.

Okay.

They were founded in nineteen fifty one.

Wow, Like I said, the first time I ever heard of them. They were in that Bill and Ted movie, right, and they were in what was it, San Dimas, California? Right, wasn't it the Uh yeah it was yeah, And I'm like, so what the hell is the circle? Okay? Like I said, I thought they made it up, but it turned out it was a real place, you know where.

They brought it back for the third movie too, Like the third movie, like during the pandemic that came out like kind of like they brought okay back in the parking lot you know.

Oh yeah, Bill and Ted die or something, right, they like absolutely get killed.

No, it was like they're they were trying to do a tnaciously where like they created the best song on the planet or whatever.

Yeah okay, okay, yeah, No, I read something about this like it turns out it's their kids that do the great music or whatever. Yeah.

Yeah, it was horrible.

Yeah, I give it a shot. But I.

Did not know this. Seven eleven is actually owned by a holding company in Japan, and that's why they do so well in Japan. They've got it's like it's like seven eleven. Japan bought the American issue of it. It started in Dallas. Well that was years ago. Yeah, I'm I'm sorry.

Well that was so and I know that that was Southland Corporation. And that was the interesting thing about Jesse Curry, who was the chief of police in Dallas at the time of the Kennedy assassination. He wound up working security for Southland Corporation when he retired from the police force. And that's why his book was only available in seven elevens.

That's why he were able his book, the first one he put out.

Ye, now that you mentioned it.

My parents bought it at a seven eleven in New Orleans.

Because that's the only place they could buy it, and that was the only place that sold it.

Yeah, and I got a great slushy at the seven eleven down the street from Jilly Plaza.

That'll be one hundred years old in two years.

Yeah, b Pete and I had to take a long walk around to go to a seven eleven in Dallas, and we were staying at that ridiculous hotel. When we went to Dallas, we were at the Artsy Hotels. The hotel with the paint brushes in a frame on the ceiling that place. But for some reason, we had to walk like two miles to get to a place that was a quarter mile away because everything was fenced off or something. Right, Yeah, I.

Could have hit it with a good tea shot from the from the front of the hotel, put it really good.

You know, tea shot with a baseball. Yeah, I'd put it through through the roof. But it just kills me.

I fall.

We had to walk around to get to the damn thing.

Yeah, it's thirty minute walk at least.

That was crazy. He was like, look, I'm hungry. The hotel has got nothing, and I don't want to give him any money. Anyway, Where's there's got to be a comedian. It's there near here. Yeah, it's seven to eleven, like quarter mile away.

Oh great, and that's probably the one I was at.

Oh yeah, yeah, Well, I don't think it was new.

When I was in Dallas like three years ago or whatever it was. I literally had to I had to park my car in the Walmart parking lot like two miles away.

See I remember that.

Okay, there was one that was near what what is the name of that hotel. You know, they used to hold the conferences at like this much nicer hotel and now were The new place there they're into now is much better and I'm looking forward to going back there. It's got a whole mall inside of it. What sucks is they close it over the weekend, so it's not really that helpful for us. But it's not as close to Dealey Plaza as the one that was right down

Anyway, I couldn't afford any of the hotels or motels that were in the area. And I knew that if I parked at the Walmart parking lot, people wouldn't you know, the cops wouldn't be mess with me or whatever.

Yeah, yeah, Well, I've only been able to split the cost of a room once, so honestly, otherwise, the only time I've been there is when somebody else is paid for my room. I can't, right, right, I can't do it. It's it's expensive, man. And plus they put a they put like a tourist tax on everything too.

So yeah, yeah, I know it was.

And I think Robert Rodin was out. He was out in front of the pergola or whatever you want to call it. You know, he's trying to hawk his his book or his DVD's or whatever. And I really wish I had the money to buy whatever he was hawking at the time, but I just couldn't.

Yeah, I understand this past year he was inside with us, but I think everything he had he was charging one hundred bucks for, you know. Yeah, yeah, so you know, it just was what it was. And meanwhile, I don't know how many he sold, but it couldn't have been that many, because I mean, we weren't. It was not a good year for merchandise last year. I'll tell you that. I mean, did you notice there, you.

Know, the the perch, the so called perch the Zuppruter was on with his secretary or whatever. Did you notice that they removed that?

No, that wasn't removed. That was there.

I was there last year.

Yeah, it was there last year.

You know. I thought it was removed when I was there like three years ago.

See, I heard that story from somebody else, and like I asked somebody who was in the area to check, and they said, no, it's still there. I said, okay, but I've been back there twice since the first time I heard that, and each time it's there. I mean, if they took it out, they put it back, because when I was there.

Yeah, I can't explain it. Yeah, I curseworn it was gone. Yeah, because I wanted to film something with my cell phone and it wasn't there. So it's kind of goofy that they would put it back. Or maybe I don't know, like maybe someone slipped me some psychedelics that I was aware of.

Well, did you did.

You see the did you see the plaque that described because there's a like a plaque there that explained Sabruter stood here and this and that. Did you see that? Yeah, okay, I did see that.

Yeah, that should be.

Right by the one of two pedestals that looked kind of the same and right there should be his pedestal. But every time I've been there, it's been there. Despite the fact that that what was it last year we had q A non stop traffic on Elm Street for a minute, I still can't explain that that was the weirdest thing. They all just got together and held their hands and stopped traffic like right at the moment of silence that was going on.

Well, shucka like back in the day, like do you remember in your research do you remember hearing all the stories about how Villas Plazo was basically people were taking out like the bullet fragments like with tippet and everything in the curb and the whole thing with the manhole cover or whatever like in the replacing the sign.

Do you remember all that.

Stuff or well, I know this a bunch of things in Dealey Plaza people just like took as souvenirs. And for a little while there was a bit of a menace where people were taking chips off of the book depository building too. You can still find them floating on the internet. People will actually sell you a piece of the book depository building and they took almost all the boards off of the picket fence. None of those are

The grass and knole? Who was it named after?

Oh man, I should know this too.

I'll give you a honor. Starts with the bea.

No, I don't know. I knew this.

I named after John Neely Bryan, who was a lawyer. Yeah, uh in Dallas.

And fact his.

Is that his log cabin Yeah, replicause of John Neely Brian's cabin Founder's Plaza, Dallas, Texas. So he uh, just a little bit of trivia fling out there. Everybody talks about the portal of it. Well, nobody ever says.

That Brian ever heard BPTE have you ever heard the story about the glass being taken out of the sixth floor the book compository.

The window was enough so good?

Who had it? Allegedly, Bird I think had the whole windows.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, whole thing was for me.

Yeah.

Yeah, no, I always sound that to be very strange. Well maybe it's a stranger at all, but like, yeah, no, I I heard it. It was almost like a like a trophy kind of thing. I know that may be controversial to say.

But yeah no, some people have said that, and some people have said that. I I don't know how to you know, how to respond to that except to say that like a lot of pieces of that plaza were removed by different people for different reasons, and that guy owned the building, so there was no detection of it, and it was just a historical spot that he could

I think some of the production budget for Oliver stones movie like went towards restoring the upper upper floor. Like I could be wrong, but.

Well, I know they paid to restore like the grounds a bit and like some of the uh, some of the you know, the rubbery and that kind of stuff. I know they did that. Yeah, when was the Sixth Floor Museum founded? I'm going to find that out.

I wouldn't be surprised if it was nineteen ninety one, around the release.

Of the movie.

That could be wrong. I'm probably wrong, but.

That's a good question.

Because up until that point, no one was really like, besides you know, hardcore researchers, no one was really that invested in the JFK assassination at the time. Right, because when Oliver Stone's movie came out, it kind of reinvigorated the public nineteen eighty interest.

And February twenty of nineteen eighty nine, when it was established, right, but.

They didn't reopen it for a while because they started the refurbishment. But that that whole thing, that's part of it though, because Stone did put some money into it, into the plaza to have it sort of you know, put back the way it was historically as best they could tell. And they were doing that with like Groden's photographs, you know.

Going, okay, now, the museum.

The museum actually opened President's State February twenty and nineteen eighty nine.

Well it says it was founded, which was President's Day. It opened as a museum to chronicle the assassination of the museum. I don't think they were done with it yet. Let me see.

Oh no, I'm sure they've been doing stuff to it since then. Yeah, but I mean they actually opened up.

So that's about like approximately like two and a half years maybe before the release of the film. It makes sense.

Something like that, like when they were filming it would have been when the money when they couldn't have money into it, Yeah, exactly. So yeah, JFK. I'm pretty sure it was filmed mostly in nineteen ninety but let me see here, film from April from April fifteenth to July thirty first, nineteen ninety one. Okay, and it was released in nineteen ninety one. All right, I'm a little off.

There were they still filming in nineteen ninety one, because I thought they would have had a final cut by early nineteen ninety one.

No, it's gotty wrong.

No, it says, well, I'm just reading what it says. According to this, the movie JFK, directed by Oliver Stone, was filmed from April fifteenth to July thirty first, nineteen ninety one.

Really, that's what it says.

Wow, okay, all right, Well, and.

It was released later on that year.

Okay, Yeah, No, I always had the assumption that JFK was released like in the fall.

Of nineteen ninety one, but.

It was a Christmas movie that was released December twentieth.

There you go. And I'm looking at you know, the different places where they filmed and when they did it, and Dealey Plaza they filmed. Let's see, I'll see.

Budget was forty million.

He took in two hundred and five point four million at the box office.

Yeah, they filmed, Okay, they filmed in Washington, d C. Briefly, they filmed in Fort Worth, Texas, New Orleans, Louisiana, Arlington National Cemetery Course and in Dealey Plaza. So there's the filming locations and the filming dates. April fifteen, nineteen ninety one to July thirty, first, nineteen that's pretty quick bit of production there for yeah, as much as he.

Had, especially back in the day.

Well, I mean that's a lot to get done in let's see, you know, fourth month to the seventh month, three months really four months total, you know at most, because you're talking the middle of April, so you get through April and then you go May, June, July. Yeah, I mean it's only.

Well, one of the reasons that they shot and that they shot.

On such a heavy schedule was apparently when he wanted to recreate the assassination in Daley Plaza, they had to pay the Dallas City Council a huge lot of money to hire the police, a move route, traffic and everything, and he only had ten days to shoot all the footage. So he just swarmed the place with cameras.

He had.

Seven cameras and fourteen film stocks sitting there just to save time.

Plus, I know, he had to hire the duplicate limousine, which was another cost and that guy used to charge him low fifty thousand.

It cost fifty thousand just to put someone in the window from which Oswald was supposed to have shot Kennedy. Yeah, because they only had certain hours, yep, they could only see They were allowed to film at that location only between certain hours with only five people on the floor at one time.

So it was the camera crew, the actor and Oliver Stone.

And they also were utilizing different film stocks like eight milimeters, sixteen millimeter, thirty two milimeter to get all these different damage points. At the time too, you had to get Gary Olman in there as Lee Harvey, right, and they had to close off all at Elm Street, Main Street, Houston.

When you see but when you see Garrison on the you know where he's saying he's on the sixth floor. He's not on the sixth floor. He's on the fifth floor. Because I remember that from the director's commentary which was made contemporaneous with the film. It was like, oh, well, why doesn't that And I knew it didn't look right because there's a different shape to the windows, and I'm sitting there like, why doesn't this look right to me? I couldn't figure it out back then, and then I

You know, I did something. I did something I wasn't supposed to do when I when I visited Dallas, I actually turned my my cell phone on and started videotaping when because they prohibit you from videoing around the sniper's nest, and I started videotaping anyway, I'm telling you, dude, like, would that tree like I don't know, Like maybe I could be wrong, but would that tree in the way and everything? He couldn't have made this?

You know, Well, I don't know. I could be wrong, but I don't know. You know, I've been through this a few different ways, and I got to tell you I look at it, and when I look at the the FBI recreation, which it gives you the best look at what the foliage should have looked like. Then, uh, you know, because it's only a couple of weeks after when they did their recreation, their first one, which is on a silent film. You can get it at the

Well, he's gonna throw the man liquer carcane because originally it was a German nauser. I still claim. I cling to that that detail. People forget about that it wasn't the weapon that they said it was like originally, you know.

Well, even weirder than that is there is a man liquor on you know, carcano on the Alier film. But I don't know, the sling doesn't look right. See, every time I look at this thing, it makes me nuts trying to figure out that weapon because every time I turn around, whether it's you know, whether it's what's his name carrying it through the hallway holding it up, or it's you know, them supposedly finding it and Alier's filming and throwing his film out the window. Uh, and all

Wasn't there another wasn't there another weapon like on the roof of the building that was uh British, right or whatever.

But he also found well they had that, they had this the Endfield rifle was taken taking it. There was a whole bunch of stuff going on because yeah, you got the Dallas Cinema Associates film, they show him taking a completely different rifle away from the school book depository. Nobody can explain that still because that doesn't even show upon the evidence sheet. And again, yeah, people said it was you know, okay, well maybe I meant it was that style rifle or whatever. The whole point is it

Yeah, I feel like dip shoot, I know, you know I haven't seen that.

And the other one, yeah, well another port you can see Craig on is I forget who's who actually caught it. But he does the search of the parking lot, you know, next to the book depository, between where the rail yard tower is and like where all those cars are part. He's searching through there, looking around. But he ends up in the book depository too, So he was there.

Because he's the he's the guy that's always talking about he saw Oswald like leaving in a.

Rambler, right, that's the other thing he says, Oh, I saw him run down the hill and get into a station wagon basically leave. And that doesn't that doesn't go along with the official story the bus ticket that that Oswald had in his pocket with a transfer for no reason. He got off of that because it got stuck in trap exposedly and then he takes the taxi and all that. But that makes no sense if he ran across the grassy, no, and what got into a station wagon? You know?

Okay, Yeah, because I'm going on what Steve Cameron was talking about like years ago.

Yeah, no, no, I get it, I get it. It's just that if you take Craig at face value, that's fine, but you gotta look at just look at the films he's in that's all I'm saying. And he's there, I'm gonna check it out.

I haven't seen the films you're talking about.

Yeah, look at the Alia. It's spelled A L y e A or something like that. I could look him up real fast, but that's the name of the photographer and it's generally referred to as the Alier film. But let me just make sure.

Okay, don't want to check that out, Chuck, Chuck, just out of curiosity, what is your thoughts on like the whole German Bowser thing.

Well, I think they took several people and several weapons into custody, but they don't want to cop to all of them. And the three the endfield is funny because that's probably what do you call it, uh buill Wesley Frasier's weapon, and they were they were telling him, Hey, you're screwed because you took this guy to work and you know we're gonna bust you too.

On the roof right.

Well, I don't know where they got it from, but they took his weapon, the endfield.

Oh yeah, they he had to turn it in when he showed up at the police department. They wanted to see his rifle.

Yeah, immediately they wanted to see his weapon, and that was the only one he had. I think that was that was of that type, you know, a long gun.

You want to be in his situation. They're trying to pin an accomplished wrap on you.

Yeah, of course that's that. That's honestly, that's how I account for a lot of his changes in his story and everything else.

THATSS well, I.

Kind of would be. I mean, look, if you and I, you and I went to a city together, okay, and they arrested me and told you, hey, listen, I know you were driving this guy and he took a shot at Trump. We're gonna blame you. You're gonna be like, uh, I had nothing to do with it, and I don't know what the hell you're talking about. And you know, I'm just saying I was just driving the guy. That's what you would say, and you'd be right. But they'll they'll they'll jam you up. W f A a TV reporter,

I don't know.

I knew a guy in the military. He had the same last name. When we pronounced Olia.

You know, some people have the same last name, pronounce it different too. I mean, you know, I forget who who like was in the case. As a matter of fact, there was a weird case of that where it was like people were, oh, I know what it was the FBI agent. Everybody had called him Siebert for years. Uh, and it's cyber right, that's the way to actually pronounce his name. And he would get irritated if he called him Siebert by the way, Sebert O'Neil, the two that

How do you tell you're talking about the FBI guy that picked up a bullet from the lag and put it in his pocket. Heard that?

Yeah, Well, and that's funny too because is Mark Oaks did a really good piece on that, And I don't know if it's available on the internet because it was a VHS tape at one point, and I think it might have made it to DVD, but I don't know if it's existed. After that, he did something called the Mystery FBI Man, and it's funny because we talked about Jesse Curry's book earlier. That's where he first got a

Those pictures originated in that newsletter. Who is the guy that was investigating it.

Well, you're talking about newsletter, You're talking about Penn Jones newsletter. But it was the original.

Those photographs were originally in there right now.

They were originally taken by a local newspaper. There was a pair two photographers that work together and I can't remember their names now, but there were two photographers that work together for a local newspaper and it wasn't the Morning News, and they took those pictures and if you checked, I think Jesse Curry actually credits him with it in the book. But but nobody knows who this guy is picking up this bullet is the point in Jesse Curry's book.

I had the name at one point. I got to look back into where.

Yeah, it's something real basic though. Yeah, let's see Mark, the Oaks prone figure Jacobs community know for.

Because I think the same FBI agent has some kind of device in his pocket that remember Hicks, Hicks was photographed having some kind of walkie talkie type thing.

I'm trying to look at. I'm trying to look up something about this right now.

Yeah, yeah, no, I yeah, it's all coming back to me now. Yeah, I had the guy's name at one point. It was around the time that I was doing research with Who's the guy Bob? Bob He used to produce this show.

Bob Wilson, Bob Wilson.

See, I've removed him from my brain.

I can't even remember.

But it was around that time I was going back and forth with him on Facebook and uh we, uh we we were talking about those photographs and uh not only was this guy named Hicks, he had some kind of like walkie talkie in his back pocket, which was you know, he was photographed, but also the dark complex complexion man or whatever. The guy that was standing next to the umbrella guy, he had walkie TALKI two.

They were saying they saw two of him sticking out of his uh yeah, out of his back pocket and whatever. Let's see.

But the guy that picked up the bullet in the lawn, he had a walkie talkie too. I think in one of those photographs.

Could be I'm looking at anyway, I'm looking at the clip. You know what's funny is I see a clip of Mark Oak's original video is up on Vince Palmyra's YouTube channel. But well, let me see if I can find out. Okay, what do we got here?

Right?

Okay, I just stopped. I was trying to play an audio there and you were talking, so I didn't understand any of what just happened. No, what you say? Good?

No, I just said Vince PALMERA. He was like, he was the expert on the Secret Service detail, right.

Yeah, he pretty much knows more about the Secret Service than pretty much anybody I can think of. Yeah, regard this. Yeah, let me see something.

Also, in a telephone interview with Deputy Sheriff oul man Ox, he told me that a bullet was picked up on the south side of Elm Street and reiterated the same at dinner before our present at the JFK Assassination and Information Center in Dallas. This is a photo of Deputy Sheriff Al Maddox standing behind Lieutenant Day on November twenty second, nineteen sixty three, and through his help, he put me in touch with a well known FBI agent who does not want his name mentioned, and who told me who

Information at the same time.

The name that the FBI agent gave me without hesitation was Dallas Special Agent Robert at Barrett.

He had worked on several commission exhibits.

Here you go, it's Barrett. That's who it was, Robert Barrett. Okay, that's who he said it was. And he goes through a whole thing where he's trying to compare photographs, asking other FBA eye people all kinds of things in this UH presentation here. But I'm pretty satisfied.

Maddox right, no, no, no.

Maddox, Deputy Maddox or the guy who was who retired. I forget what he actually retired as.

I'm getting the next of them.

Okay, Yeah, Al Maddox was a nice guy, was one of the easiest UH cops to talk to in the nineties in Dallas UH and and was very cooperative with Mark. So they had actually done a presentation together at one

So Bart sit in the photograph where he's picking the bullet and the grass.

Well, that's that's the best that a bunch of people said, you know, that's who they thought it was, and including Gimbreling, which is really funny because you know, Gimbling you know, the first report that was written on the assassination, right the first you know, was it three hundred pages or whatever was They often refer to it as the Gimbreling Report.

Partner I had no period of time after the assassination was a man by the name of U. E. R. Buddy Walters, and they had some photographs of UH on patrolman Joe Foster over on the south side of Elm Street that UH went in order to investigate that area to see if you could see anything, and eventually uh al Mannox's partner, Buddy Walters had come over there and another man had uh joined them to take part in

And I'd just like to show you this as a confirmation. And he sent me, And I was wondering if you had any information or an opinion as to whether that might possibly resemble mister Barrett, and if you knew him personally.

This is not the first time I've seen this picture. Bob Barrett and Ivan Lee were two agents that worked closely together, and we're responsible for a section of the first report I wrote in November thirtieth of sixty three.

Which was about a multiple page section containing photographs of all the various locations of Ozma's escape route front.

All right, Now, what he handed him is a picture like you were talking about, which which had the guy reaching down and seeming to pick something up out of the grass. Yeah, and he handed him that and a picture of Barrett, and then a note from Barrett saying yeah, that's me. Okay. Once once he did this contact with Gimberling, though then Barrett wrote wrote him again angrily saying, hey, that's not me.

So really yeah, yeah, it was really.

Funny and so oaks that That's why he put out the videotape where it was like here, watch all this happen, just me trying to figure out who's in one photograph.

You know.

It was just like I found it extremely fascinating. And this is again, this is Gimberling, who I think is dead. Now.

Uh, let's see, did you ever meet Barrett Barrett? NOA, I met uh two different FBI agents with the name Kennedy, and I never did met Kimberling.

But the most interesting person I think I ever met would would have to be I, come to think of it was was. Wade was the most interesting person I ever met on that whole trial. Wade was too much man. Wade was too much and he told he told me the same story that he apparently told like everybody for about thirty years. Uh. He loved telling the story about Jack Ruby, uh speaking out daring that press conference. I don't know when he started telling that story, but I

So yeah, Chuck, you may have told people before, but I've never heard your take on it. But Tom O'Neill, his book Chaos, the whole thing was Jolly West. What is your take on that? I don't even know if you have a take on it.

But.

I actually have. I have Tom O'Neill's work file on that book Chaos and Man, oh man, it's right there. It's almost I'm how do you explain a guy who was part of MK ultra okay in his own handwriting, by the way, he said it, several times O'Neill got letters out of his papers from the from the universities. This guy was there. Jack Ruby goes crazy after he meets with him alone. Yep, he goes and gets special

And Timothy McVeigh what I I don't Jolly West is a wild story in and of itself.

Carmine and I did a two point rby it would be a fair explanation because Ruby was basically completely nuts after he met with him, So timeline wise, either he did have some sort of brain damage, like you know, bell I was trying to say, or you know, or maybe he got dosed. I mean, I can't prove that,

Well, he even had connections with who is the heiress, the the rich heiress that the Liberation Army.

What's the name, Patty Hurst, pat h He had connections with her toil.

Yeah, right, And also there's a weird thing about cointelpro and chaos and targeting the white Panthers and yeah, which by the way, would have probably qualified most of the murder victims at the at the teaatehouse.

Yeah.

Yeah, because Abigail Folger, everybody thinks of her as nothing, but you know, except she's the coffee you know, a coffee heiress. But no, it went further than that. She was also political activist. It's a whole crazy thing. And O'Neill got as close as he spent twenty years on that damn thing. Do you know that.

Yeah, yeah, I tried to have I actually, when I was doing the show, would you get that thing? I try? I reached out to him and he was charging for interviews, and at the time I was like, well, I really can't pay for an interview. But I can understand why, like he was doing that, you know, because he basically put like twenty plus years of his life into this whole film.

Yeah, I know, and believe me, I'd love to talk to the guy too, but I haven't been able to book him either, So yeah, I didn't. I didn't get a.

Feature Stuttering John Stuttering John once like trial in books.

See now him I got for free. I don't know, you know, I just happened to get him when he was putting out that book. Oh really, okay, yeah, I got him when he put out what the hell was the name of that book. I don't even remember what it was, but it was like, you know, his life story and his struggle with stuttering and all that. Yeah, I can't remember the name of the book. But I also thought it was interesting that he was mentoring kids

Yeah, now like he all he does is trash Howard now you know, yeah.

Well you know, what are you gonna do?

But anyway, Yeah, No, the Jolly west thing I always thought was very interesting, And for anyone out there that doesn't know, I think Jolly West Stron helped him commit suicide in two thousand, in nineteen, in ninety nine, and I think like Jolly West's wife ended up passing away like not too long after that.

I think he did die in ninety nine. I don't remember the circumstances.

But let me say, well, Jolly west Son wrote a whole book about how he basedically he killed his father, you know, right, let's see pretty sure that it's on the record.

Yeah, it says here he died of a rapidly advancing malignant tumor. But okay, nineteen twenty four to nineteen ninety nine.

Yeah, if you look deeper into it, I'm pretty sure he put out a book with like a Jack Tavorkian kind of assisted suicide scenario.

You know, I don't know, because there is a whole strange controversy about his collected works too. That's another thing. But let's take a look at what his books are that are related to him. Let's see Alcoholism and Related Problems, a rare recording of Margaret's singer Yike's Explorations in Psychology of Emotions, The American Psychiatric Association Explorations in Psychology of Emotions, The Green Rebellion Notes on the Life and Times of

It was John like uh didy Gooy's whole leftist. I guess I know he hates Tromp.

And right now we spent most of our time honestly talking about uttering and uh, and you know, and a little bit about like his time with Howard Stern a little bit. But you know, what are you doing with the podcast? Well you know, what did you put in the book?

Uh?

What? You know? What kind of story are you telling here? You know? And like I said, talked about the man. I only had him for about, I don't know, thirty thirty five minutes.

I think he tried to charge you at all if you don't want the.

Well he didn't, he didn't. I didn't pay him.

He was apparently he's notorious for trying to charge people.

No, I have not paid for an interview on my show.

No, I even know. That's cool, that's cool.

I mean and I tried to book RFK Junior before, you know, before he became what he is now. And uh, yeah, that was that was a he wanted twenty five thousand. So really, yeah, that was that was his speaking thing. Wow, you want RFK Junior to speak twenty five thousand? And John Barber will back me up on that, because he invited him to that loss.

He invited him to that Yeah, well, he invited him to that Las Vegas thing he did with Joan Mellon and uh or k Junior again twenty Yeah, sure, you want me to show up twenty five grand?

Wow? Okay, wow, you know probably was twenty five grand plus plus put me up in a hotel plus, you know, but no, right, you know, but I obviously wasn't gonna put anybody up in hotel.

Anyway, barely put my shelf up into a hotel.

Yeah right, I can just keep the roof over over the heads over here, that's it. I mean, you know, I can't. I can't even go and visit my home state of Jersey. I can't make it up there, So you know where am I going? And I certainly don't have twenty five g's for a speaking fee, for God's sake. I mean, somebody else tried to charge me money to I can remember who else, but there was there was actually like two or three other people I think that tried to charge me money to do a podcast interview.

It was?

Was it Marina Oswald?

Well, no, Marina. I can't get a hold of Marina now, so I don't know what's going on. Yeah. I used to be able to and I cannot now, so I don't know what that means. I had heard at one point that she was so totally fed up that she was done and talking to anybody. But I used to be able to get a holder.

Well, let's work on uh, I think uh Lee Harvey's kids, they they're still open to doing interviews.

Must work on that.

Yeah, it wasn't done. Wasn't Don Jeffries going to do that?

Yeah? He's in concept with them. Yeah that's why I'm so yeah.

Yeah, I mean yeah, I know. Hey, I'd be more than happy to hear him get hold of or even Rachel or whoever you know, Yeah, would be interesting.

Anyways, listen, even gotten I got in contact with you know, you know the Patsy that time, never saw you know, Thomas, the Arthur rally.

Okay, what about Chicago plot?

K Yeah, I found his sister.

Yeah mm hmm. So, uh, I'm.

Gonna I'm not gonna pest for her, but I'm gonna continue trying to uh get that interview.

Well, I hope you don't hit the same Yeah, I hope you don't hit the same wall I did. Because I got a hold of somebody in his family at one point. I don't remember who it was, but it was so usy too. Somebody related, somebody related to him, why ago And I pretty much got told that like they cared about him when he was you know, around, but he was like a very difficult person and they just don't even want to relive it, is what I was told. So I don't know what she'll.

Be telling you, like like eight right, I think.

Yeah, I mean I don't even know what he does. You know, that would be another you gotta be looking at You're asking me all these weird it's coming back to me right.

Now as we're talking. Yeah, sorry, this is.

Like the test I'm not prepared for.

You know, I took up the whole hour or two. I apologize one else that.

You know, No, look, nobody else that's called in. I was gonna get ready to take a break. But but other than that, nobody's called in. So it's fine. I wanted to look at I want to look him up and see what what happened to him, because I remember what year he had passed away. But let's see archival footage blah blah blah blah, And it's very hard.

To find anything on Thomas Arthur Valley. Well, and you know something, you you actually called me el rot something that I was talking about on other shows. For a while. I had always come across a thing that I wasn't able to substantiate, and that was that Thomas Arthur Valley was pulled over in a car that was registered to the rby Oswald.

Yeah that, Yeah, you were one.

Hundred percent corrects Like I can't prove that.

Yeah, I couldn't there, look was wrong. Yeah, I know about him being pulled over, and I know about the police trying to get rid of the records on it and all that stuff. Yeah, they you know, he did have a bunch of rounds. I mean, like some ridiculous I forget how many, like three thousand rounds in his front or something. Yeah, yeah, and it was like, okay, that's pretty crazy. But other than that, they had no reason to take him down, and it was just like it was weird.

It was it wasn't registered to Lee Harvey Golswalt, not that I know of, No, But what do you got so like the urban legend like behind it?

I guess yeah, let's see, he was trying the information again was not in as long to analysis. Yeah, it's funny because after he was released you see, I'm seeing a bunch of places where people are like dead end, dead end on him at a certain point here strong indicators Chicago. Yeah. See, Now the other guys that they were supposedly tracking, the supposed group of Cubans that were there in Chicago same time, those guys disappeared, and that's a whole other thing. They just never tracked him down.

Yeah, there were like four guy who's renting like an apartment or whatever camp.

Yeah, I mean Valley was shorter than the other thing is, oh, the guy looked just like Oswa and not really. He was shorter than him, you know, you know, he was shorter than him, he was thinner than him, he had blue eyes. I mean, there's a whole thing that is way different on him.

But didn't they try to like push to the uh, the John Birch society like angle like with him and instead of just the you know, the Cuban angle.

Yeah, like that's the ya. That's the thing is they've always said that and I don't even know where they got that from.

Yeah, I don't either.

You know, outside of Okay, when you look at Bolden's claim, it's one thing, right, and the information that he gave to Edwin Black, that's one thing. And they did a light detector on him, and I, you know, for the most part, I believe Bolden, but you know, without documentation, I don't rely on you know, this guy's memory alone, especially considering look from his own words. You know, he was medicated heavily in jail. Yeah, so a lot of information could be lost or misrepresented. Gler.

Mark Lane was representing Moulden a certain period of time in like the early seventies.

Yeah, Mark Lane interjected himself into a lot of cases and got some people out of place. So yeah, yeah, no, Mark Lane did a lot of stuff like that, and then by the end of the seventies he's in freaking Jonestown. I mean, you know Mark Lane another yea curious Yeah, No, it's okay. I'm just saying it's just, you know, it's another case.

So you're right though, he was Jose's lawyer.

Like, like, I got to tell you.

You know Polly Perette from CSI, Yeah, she made that documentary Citizen Lane. I think like ten years ago.

Yes, Citizen Lane. I remember that.

I tried to get her on the podcast, and for some reason, she just wouldn't do it. I don't know why, because I thought she was proud of the work that she did with that documentary, but it always like, maybe feel weird about it. And I talked to Charlie Robinson about that too, and I guess she tried to do something similar, like getting her to come on to talk about that, and I just don't know, like what the deal with that whole thing was either.

So look, i'd love to talk to her about that myself, just as you know, what was going on behind the scenes while you were filming that, because she took a while to film that, I think, so I'd love to just get some And it's also weird because that's around the time I think I got a letter from him. Is no, no, No, it was earlier than that, because it was around the time he put out that The Final Word or whatever book that he sent me that letter,

So be Pete, what do you think should we take about that?

Should we take a little break here be Pete. What do you think?

Yeah, we take a quick one if you want.

Yeah, I need to do that just so I can get another drink. To be honest with you, and I'm just gonna put you on hold Chris for now while we go to break real fast. And I know we've done JFK hour and I'm sure some of you are thrilled and some of your now, but it's like Chris testing me and me having to figure out stuff and piece things together as I'm going, uh, you having fun with this, b Peter.

No, Well, it's just it's just most It's like most conversations that you have. It's a little bit of trivia here there, and it just starts rolling.

It's you know what, though, it sounds exactly like most of the conversations I have at the conferences, you know that, right, Except sadly I usually know every single thing these people ask me at the conferences. Chris keeps stumping me on weird little things. But at the conferences they're like would you know this? And I'm like, well, there's kind.

Of indicative of the whole JFK thing.

I mean, you can spend hours talking minutia and never you know, end never discussed anything really.

Questionable. It's just this whole JFK world.

Now is nothing but a bunch of little facts for this or rat you know.

Revelation through kan say heurial, Oh.

Shell a fat to belly spring. You are the fact, you are the.

Uncle.

Do you remember that time when Benjamin Fulford said that an Asian secret society was going to dispatch ninja's to take down the illuminati.

Oh that's interesting, yeah in the coatroom?

Yeah?

Did that ever work out too good?

No?

It didn't, did it? But here on o'chelly dot com radio network things work out a bit better, don't they?

Much better? Much?

Men?

It is clear and understanding about the programs. The programs much clearer, getting live people into it. They really have a good conversation going much better, much better scene.

I say, forget Benjamin Fulford and his ninjas and listen to the o'chelly dot com radio network.

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Get ready for all right, second and final segment for the night for sure and be Pete, anything on your mind before we go back to the phones.

Well, I've just been sitting there standing the headlines and that early in a while and news out there for faddy. Now usually their faddy's isn't when you start dumping stuff, so it gets lost on the weekend.

But I'm not seeing much out of here.

I got to tell you, the week was kind of lame for news, you know, which didn't exactly motivate me much, you know, I mean outside of it. I kind of have a commentary to do on Trump's ol story about the fat shot, which I think is funny. But other than that, what's what's news?

You know what?

Trump went to Saudi Arabia, okay.

Least kissing everybody's ass.

I don't like us, okay, so you know that's the point I'm not, you know, like, didn't we do this for oil before anyway? So now he's doing it for cash because supposedly they're going to make a six billion, six hundred billion dollar investment. Whatever. Am I even interested in this? Does this have anything to do with me? You know what I'm saying.

I have noticed something though, in the past three months.

It seems like the littlest of things can get so blown out of proportion in a matter of I mean minutes, the minute something hits Twitter or the minute something hits some other social platform. It's like it takes off and it takes a week and a half to get the actual story after all this people running around with their hair on fire. Yep, it takes a week and a half to get down to the basic, actual story and then it disappears.

Yeah, you know how many things that were? You know it was a fire alarm when it happened. Now we don't. We haven't heard about it months.

Yeah, and now I'm just exhausted, to be honest with you.

Yeah, I think that's the purpose, Just exhaust everybody. And they said, I'll.

Ask for maybe maybe that. It looks like we got Jimmy James on the line, so I'm going to bring him on and see what's on his mind. Jimmy, Uh, it doesn't look like I kept you too too long. But how you doing? Man?

Oh, I'm doing fine.

Cool. Were you enjoying the the JFK stump stumped the host and going on there for a minute.

Well, I was in deep meditation. I missed it.

Oh listen, man, congratulations to you. I wish I could be in deep meditation anymore. I can't even focus long enough, so props.

Oh my goodness, yes, oh, I.

Had to chuck. I had to.

I send it right up there too, like I'm one up. Oh, I'm up to cloub twenty five. Now I've seen the Greek. He's a cloud seven.

I went up up.

I'm up nice, I'm glad, I'm I'm I'm cheering you on, man.

No.

Oh, I was just you know, up there, just clouding out, chelling out, taking it all in. I'm kind of bummed out of miss JFK Hour though. Chris, uh, you know it.

I owe you an apology.

Oh sorry? Yeah, you want me to put Chris on with you? Oh yeah, okay, I'll put Chris on with you. Hold on, okay, Chris, you're back on. You're on with you.

James, Hey, Jimmy, James over here, and you did every time.

I owe you an apology.

Once you said, uh, man over guns and bullets all over deeply plaza and I crissed back a little on that, but I shouldn't have, as you were correct, there were they start counting.

These things they add up, Yeah they do.

Yeah, you have photographs of FBI guys like putting uh what appears to be bullets in their pockets.

You have.

I think there was there there was another bullet.

That hit.

The streak, and not not James Tieg's bullet, but there was another bullet that Oliver Stone brought up on Joe Rogan's podcast, and uh, I didn't even know about that.

Yeah, well what what? Uh that's an easy one.

You know.

What's funny about that is I knew about that years ago and why because of a guy named Stavis Ellis. Okay, he's he was another cop. And what's funny is I had him written in my file for the longest time is Steven Ellison. I don't know how I did that, but Stavis Ellis anyways, Uh, this guy swore that the bullets struck the road near him, which if you positioned him correctly, you got bullet strikes on the ground behind limo, which you know, nobody ever found the bullet for. But

Hole in the windshield Chuck No, maybe made it.

No talks about see but maybe maybe not because is that the windshield that ended up at the National Archives or not? You see, because it's true, you know, I'm not saying that.

I know for I'm pretty sure there was photographs before it went it went the I'm pretty sure there's photographs before that limo was sent back.

To Michigan, right, like where there wasn't there was tests of money from like another FBI agent that said he put a pencil through that bullet hole in the windshield.

Well that was the guy who came out later said that, right, And then there was also a medical student at the time who became a doctor leader who said that she could put a pencil through it. But it's all weird. It's a whole weird contention because here's the thing. When the when you take a look at the FBI, were the secret Service photographs of the limo they're mainly focused on the back seat, and you know, so if you.

Think about it, though, it's just a lot of opening that shirt away right right in a Parkland. He literally had like a bucket with like soap and water, and they were.

Like, there's already a guy with Yeah, there's already a guy with a sponge rocket cleaning it up at Parkland. Yep.

If you think about it, though, I paint the bullets that are just connected to the car. You had a ding in the in the trim above the windshield, right cron piece four, sir, you had a crack in the You had a crack in the windshield. There's photos of the car sitting there Parkland with some either a crack or a break in the windshield.

There's definitely a blemish in the windshield. Yes, absolutely, all right, Now.

Look at the shots. Kennedy took two bullets that we know of.

Okay, he took the first shot where he was grabbing his throat, he comes out from behind the sign and there's a fruder film and then the headshot. That's four shots already. I don't think the bullet that hit the chrome. Looking at the imprint in the chrome on the trim and the windshield. You can see a perfectly round hole. So that thing, if it fragmented, could a piece of that hit the windshield. Well, all right, let's say that was one shot.

So now you've got three shots.

You've got two that hit.

Kennedy and the one that hit the trim in the car and could have possibly damaged the windshield.

There's three shots. You got the shot with take and.

You've got three shots, and you've got three missing fragments now which well, which were dug out of the carpet of the limo.

But I mean they could be fragments of from whatever hit the trim.

They can believe they could potentially be from one projectile because they didn't even one.

That hit Kennedy in the back.

We don't know that's got the shot on Connolly too, the turn out that is the same one that hit Kennedy in the back.

Let's to make it simple. Sure, So you're looking at it thour shots already.

That's the way I look. I've always seen it that way, okay. And the thing is, I think that you got two from the front and two from behind. I really think so, because he was clearly struck in the back as far as I'm concerned. And when you end up with those bullet fragments, let's just call them fragments of the same projectile. Okay, that's one two Okay, the one that ends up in Connolly's leg. Don't forget there was a projectile in his leg.

Yeah, yeah, he's up his wrist right.

Well that if you go with the theory, okay, that it's all bull it hit his wrist before it hit the leg smashed, the wrist went through and then and it ends up partially buried in his leg, in his thigh. Yeah. I'm not saying I buy that. I'm just saying, if you go with that, that's one bullet. You have the fragments. They apparently account for a second projectile. He's still got a problem. I don't see how all that happens. And tag there's three exactly bare minimum of three.

That's what gets me about the War Commission and how so many people bought it. I mean, they had to finagle a single bullet theory to account for three shots, and they're still not accounting for tague shot. So how in the hell they could release the war report and not at least match up the number of shots to the number of bullets that they don't.

Exist because their kills me. Their idea is he took three shots. One first one missus strikes curb take but second one JFK's neck passes through his neck into Connolly, into his leg. Last one head shot.

But see that's just did though the bullet that hit his back.

Based on their own testimony, I guess you could call it that was a dead hole.

They felt the bottom of the hole in his back.

Yep.

So you've got one shot, You've got the shot that hit Connolly, there's two shots, you got the head shot. It's three shots, yep, and tags let alone what bounced off the damn trima of the WHO shield.

Well, and here's the problem. Unless you're going to tell me that the head shot sprayed all of those fragments in his skull and ended up in the two the three now missing. By the way, those fragments are gone. I don't know if you know that those are totally gone. They don't even exist anymore. They were taken in evidence, but they don't exist anymore. They say they were destroyed as a result of testing. That's the explanation, you know, supposedly,

Surprised there's anything left for him to release that a thing hasn't been done done away with.

Yeah, well, you know, just just like look the biological material see JFK's brain. There's another thing. And I'm pretty satisfied where that went, because that casket that that that RFK had dumped also contained biological material. Now some people would say, well, that's just the blood and everything that ended up in that casket when they carried the body,

Forward change the back bullets on JFK as magic bullet in his in his draft for the age.

Yeah, in his draft, right, he's said, you know, back back of the what was it, back of the neck instead of back is what he changed it to, right, yeah, yeah, yeah.

But that was about three inches three four inches.

Yeah, all true.

And our instructor completed it with the magic the whole magic bullet scenario, right.

The thing, the thing that gets me the most out of it is when it was released. I mean, you had you pet people like Mark Lane going no, this story doesn't make sense. Why you didn't have more of the intellectual assets that this country had. I mean not just Mark Lane, not just a lawyer, but the the media and everybody else. Why they just blatantly swallowed the Warren Commission report.

I'll never understand.

Well, Warren Commission reports released in sixty four, it took a little while for everybody to go through. By sixty six, Lane is going around to colleges and given discussions and everything else. Sixty six, sixty seven, sixty eight, sixty nine. Garrison joins them, and they were going around all over the place trying to give demonstrations. This is why this doesn't work. This is why this makes no sense. You can't cycle the rifle fast and all that stuff.

No, that's what gets me is with the amount of.

With the amount of intellect that we had in this country in the mid sixties, why there wasn't more questioning of that report coming out from different different avenues.

I just I'll never understand there's a swallow of it. You know, Lockstock and barrel.

Oh yeah, Well the War Commission said, uh huh, where is your intellectual curiosity?

Spread?

COVID the crap they just twenty twenty here in COVID. That's the same thing I was thick and during COVID. These people are stupid as hell. They can't believe this.

Come on, well it was believed, it was blievably went along with it, and the same thing happened is believe the experts. Remember David Bellin went on a tour along with a bunch of these other guys trying to support the Commission, saying, look, we got it all correct. You know, even if we didn't sort out everything, we sorted it out enough to tell you this is the basic story done, and believe us. We're the experts. That's really what it came down to. I mean, I hate to say it,

You know.

Well, nineteen sixty four, I'll give them a lot more grace because the government up to that point had gotten caught a lot less slide. But by two twenty everyone should have been calling out this COVID garbage fools.

Hey, look, I agree with you. The only thing is that I really wish we had seen, you know, more of what happened in the seventies, because all that questioning started to come out. Which, oh, by the way, that announcement I was going to tell you about real fast before we run out of time, was that Apparently you know, they made a list for Representative Luna to go to the CIA with, and Morley wrote, let's see the Florida Republican chair of the House Task Force on Declassification expects

And Chuck can, Chuck can? I asked yourself, Yeah, real quick, Yeah, good, Okay, the RFK assassination. Had you heard? You know, there was a documentary called.

The Second Gun.

Yep, did you ever see?

What is testimony that there was another sugar besides Eugene Caesar.

I recall that there was a couple of ideas about more than one person having a gun. And you know, Caesar is your best person because he had a He definitely had a gun. And you know that that clip off, that clip on tie you see laying next to RFK in the pictures is Caesar's, Yeah, because he was that damn close to him.

But there were other there were other witnesses that I actually sound that said that they saw a guy shoot what apparently was blanks like confetti like you've seen like a molie like, uh, shooting blanks.

Well, I didn't see it. Yeah, I didn't see the thing about shooting blanks. I did see the the other witnesses who said they saw other people draw guns. But I don't recall anybody saying everything about blanks blanks I think comes from Lisa Piece's work, but I could be wrong about that. Anyways, looks like, let's see what time is it? Oh crap, I'm about a minute over, so I got to get on over to the Age of Transitions with Aaron Franz. Guys, but I appreciate you and

All right, everybody head to a Telly dot Com hit the donate button to which you can.

Every little bit helps.

Other than that, looking forward next week, appreciate Jimmy and Chris calling in and we'll do it again next week.

Yes, thank you everybody for listening. Thank you Pete for joining me at uh really