Deal. Shelly Effect is sponsored by Wall Street, Window dot com and listeners like you, Shayeah and nowise in our media check a twenty fifth day of April twenty twenty four, allegedly according to that thing we call a calendar,
and this is the o'celly effect. You probably listening to us via podcast, But we are live on a Thursday here just after eight pm, a few minutes late, about five minutes late, going to air eight pm Eastern time on that twenty fifth day of April twenty twenty four on Ocelli dot com and the streams and all that good stuff. Anyway, here we go. What is on our minds tonight? Well, it could be a lot about news. I wanted to do news shows lately, but I gotta be honest with
you. It's depressing a lot of it. Okay, it's a lot of the same. It's become homogenized. And I'm wondering if that has something to do with the delivery system as opposed to the content. Is it the content or is it the delivery system? Does one have influence over the other. There's a lot to be said there. Mike Swanson is with me Wallstreet, Window dot Com, be in the no go to Wallstreet Window dot com sponsor
of this show. Indeed, he is the author of the War State, the author of Why the Vietnam War, the author of actually a handful of books, but those who I highly recommend. But he's the author of a bunch of books. You can check him out on Amazon, or you could click one of the book links on the website at Ocelli dot com where you see the War States, that redbook with Ike on the front cover giving his iconic speech regarding the military industrial complex, the Farewell Address and all that.
Anyway Mike writes about these things, is currently writing another piece about the Vietnam War, because Why the Vietnam War is just the first in a series of what was initially planned as three volumes. I don't know if that's still three volumes, but I guess we shall see. And we're gonna hear from Mike not only about those things in the very near future, but tonight we're going to talk about the delivery of news anyway. Mike, how you doing.
I'm doing pretty good. Yeah. I sent you a bunch of links to various articles about what's going on with news websites in general. And I'm experiencing all this myself. But I've been on the internet for almost twenty five years now with websites and various iterations, and have seen different trends come and go. Isn't it closer to thirty years Mike, because weren't you on the interwebs, if you will, like in the mid nineties too. Oh yeah, sure, so it's like thirty years now. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
I mean, really, you go back to before the Internet and people had bulletin boards and we're calling in places. Well exactly, okay, the bullets I've been doing it for a long time. Well, and let's let's just go over that, right. So, so we have witnessed as a spectators but also as participants in news delivery and information delivery right in various ways. I mean, you're an author. I'm working on a book now, which, by the way, my co author and I are going back and forth
over a draft right now. But I mean you've actually published stuff in that way. You've published stuff online Wall Street Window. It's not just about Wall Street. You do a lot of geopolitics, a lot of current culture clashes, things that are going on in the world, et cetera. And here's
the deal. We've watched local news basically collapse. We watched a Facebook become people's news feeds because they were just, you know, totally involved in the late night talk shows and the comedy guys out there giving them the news mainly. Or let me talk about those two topics as a way to please talk to talk about what's going on. So people, you know, they may especially the Facebook thing because people are use it, you know. But I
was supposed to something about the local news thing. So I've considered. I haven't done it. I don't know if I'm gonna do it, but I've considered trying to start a local news business with a physical newspaper that would be free and make money from advertisers. In the local news industry, the newspaper
subscription business has been collapsing for decades and everyone knows that. But one of the things that's happened, and I was looking at this locally, and I actually looked at the paper where you live, because I was curiously the same things happening. So where I live, there's two newspapers, and one is owned by a private company of a family that's from this area. It is like a dozen or so papers, and they have a stable business. They
haven't lost subscribers. They have about ten thousand, Okay, they have, you know, so just really quickly, Look, there's a couple of different ways to go at this. And there used to be very localized newspapers that could be just for a town or just for a set of towns or a county, and that would be what they would cover mainly, and they might cover some national news, etc. But mainly if you wanted your real local news, you wanted to find out what was going on with the school district,
you wanted to find out the scheduling of your local facilities. All those kinds of things used to be printed in those local papers. Right. So nowadays a lot of people started getting informed on the Facebook pages and stuff like that. Oh well, yeah, there might be a state about the local I want to tell you. The other thing is there might be a state version or a bigger version, right Like, Okay, so where I am now in Jersey, I could have easily laid it out for you too.
But in Georgia you might say, Okay, I've got this little tiny local paper here. But also there's like the Atlanta State Constitution paper which is statewide, but then again, at least focuses on Georgia, and there might be a section from my area of Georgia. Right, Okay, so there were the two ways to go at it. But these things have all virtually been
bought up by bigger conglomerates mostly right. And yeah, occasionally there's a larger family owned concern like you said or whatever, but most of those seem to have collapsed as well. Now you still have one in Virginia. But you took a look at what was going on here locally, what did you find? So the thing is, there's in the county I live in, there's a stable local one I mentioned. The neighboring county has a stable local one
too. However, the one there's another paper that's been bought up one of these conglomerates. And the conglomerates, the Lee Enterprises, owns the one where I live. There's a company called a Clatchy that owns the one where you live, and the paper the Lee Enterprise Company. For the past couple of
years, all of these companies in clatch included. What they've been doing is downsizing and cutting you know, the staff, well, get reporters local offices cutting to and they and they turn off the readers because they're getting you know, they're seeing their newspaper degrade in quality, and then they're losing subscribers that way. Now, what these companies have said and lee enterprises of public company. So they make these statements on earnings calls and their reports which I've looked
at, and they're losing money and their market capitalization. I mean this company and it's like one hundred newspapers and it's not worth one hundred million dollars. I mean, it's like a penny stock. So it's a troubled company. But what they have been telling people over the past couple of years is that print isn't profitable or prints dying, people don't want print, and we're gonna move everyone to online subscriptions and that's the future. And they have had a
drive in doing that. Yeah, so is now hold on because not only have these little papers done that, but even like the big monsters like the New York Times have gone to the hey, which I always find funny, pay for independent journalism, The New York Times. That's hilarious, right, independent journalism. This big conglomerate is out there saying, pay us a couple dollars a month, otherwise we're only gonna let you read one, two,
three articles a month. Right, And they do that to you, even with the big name papers, right, everybody seemed to go to the online subscription model and pay us a couple dollars a month so you can access the newspaper. Then you say, well, screw it, I'll go buy the print one. There are no print papers, or there's very few, i should say. So we're in a new age where there's a digital one. Nobody's buying that. There's no print papers. So where are people getting their
news? And you said those articles? What what's happening is that these companies, there's this startling story I saw that said that these this isn't the New York Times and Post, but these other companies like Lee Enterprises, mclatch and so forth. Yeah, that they are having a churn. They had a boom and getting people online in the past couple of years just because they're moving, you know, there's something new that they're doing. But now they've discovering
that the online subscribers are unsubscribing within eight months. It's called churn. Now, I've was in an online subscription business myself with a website for seventeen eighteen years. I mean that's where I that was my main that was my one of my main businesses. And I mean I obsessively was studying that, going to conferences about it. I know all about the industry, and this is financial publishing starting the seventies of publishing newsletters. Then moved it moved online way
before these newspapers did. Now I was going internet marketing conferences and on and on on. So really correctly tell reference just for everybody's reference point. Is you sent me this article which was printed in December of twenty twenty three on a local news initiative, and it says the title of the article is churning toward disaster. And you guys will see that in the show notes, or
if you're on ochelly dot com, it's in the chat room already. I've already posted the link there if you want to go ahead and reference the article that describes this. But as you said, independently, you were studying this because you were in this sort of business as well. I was in the business, right you know, and I had a large for a few years before I met you. It was large, it was sizeable. I had an email list of one hundred thousand people on it, right, I mean
in two thousand and six to twenty ten or so. And even that email list quite frankly, because look, every time people wanted to negotiate with me about, you know, purchasing pieces of what I'm doing, your email list is a commodity. And you have a gigantic email list because you literally just say that to say, I know what I'm talking about. And I could tell you that an eight months churn is awful, I mean awful. And internet marketing, which is like bizop and sleazy. They would trick people into
subscribing to something and it would and their churn was in ninety days. And that's what I'm saying, the lowest quality customer, lowest quality product. You have a ninety day churn. And the standard in the financial publishing industry when I was in it was about twelve months. So nine months is just awful. So when I read that, I was like, how can it be
so bad? On one hand, what that tells me is that those newspapers, including and I looked at the well these newspapers with a nine month churn that that had a sudden surge in like two years in the you know, within the past couple of years, within I would say, two, three, four years from now, they're gonna be almost doomed at that rate. Because it's a different business than say financial publishing. It's a worldwide, national
wide thing. So if you lose someone, you know, there's someone else's you know, if I lose someone in Montana, well there's someone interested in Detroit with this local news thing. If they lose, you know, they don't they have a limited pool of new customers. You know, they don't really have a pool of new customers. Okay, what you're saying is that when you have a concern, Okay, when you have a concern, let
me tell you why it's happening. So I went and looked at the those two local papers that are stable and compare them to what these other papers are doing. And it's it's so obvious to me from what I you know, know, my, my, what I know from this business. Sure, So what is the what is the comparison to the difference are charging sixty? How does he get the stable? Good? Huh? Oh? How is it that you get the stable they're not losing people. Yeah, how how
is that happening? How is that happening as compared to these other ones? Uh that? Yeah? Yeah? Yeah, the ones that are stable, you know, in the two in my area, right, they're charging an annual fee of like sixty one sixty seven dollars, the ones like thirty five okay, okay, and then the Lee Enterprise papers are all charging fifteen a month, right, And I went and looked at the McClatchy one where you live, and it's the same same sort of fifteen ninety nine or something like
that. So they're charging, you know, multiply that bout twelve. They're you know, they're charging it's like one hundred and fifty dollars a year. Yeah, they're charging about one hundred and fifty a year with these little monthly charges. And I know, you know from had when I was stone all this stuff you're about. You don't want to charge someone if you can help
it, every single month. You're better off to charging once a year if you have to a quarterly, and then and then if you are going to charge a monthly, you want to have an option that entices them to pay annually, so you may say fifteen ninety nine a month and then offer seventy five a year, and most people will take the seventy five or at least half, and then you're you're you're kind of pushing people actually to spend.
You know, you're going to create a more stable business. So these people don't they don't know that kind of information, they don't know what they're doing, and it's just I mean, it's just crazy. So, I mean, I figured I was reading about this last year and this is one of the what I what I believe is that that Lee Enterprises paper where I live. It's that because they report earnings, I can see that they've lost a huge number of people in twelve months, and at that rate, they're they're
going to be gone or they're going to be a ghost paper. So I was thinking, well, if they're gone, and it's kind of an opportunity to start something on my own. But I don't know if I got the energy to do it or try to fight that battle. But I just wanted to tell you, this is the local news thing, and I can see
another collapse coming because these kind of companies own so many newspapers. In the next couple of years now, Facebook is more symptomatic of all the other the other news stories I sent you, and it's directly affecting me and you and you know, other content creators because of why it's happening so well. Look, it's a different circumstance because for a while there people were blaming Facebook and like the social media outlets because now you could get your headlines through them and
you didn't have to subscribe. But if all you wanted was the headlines, I mean, you could search online and get them yourself. I mean, there's a reason why Google is a profitable company still and continues to be profitable, right, which I always find bizarre. That's something that started as a search engine. Effectively, is this huge company now? Right? The alphabet alphabet's doing pretty well, right, I mean financially, sure, yeah,
financially it's doing well. But it also dominates, whether people know it or not, it dominates a lot of the flow of information. Oh yeah, you so in a way, here's the thing. Yeah, it ends up being profitable and not everything. Okay, And when you're looking at monthly subscriptions for newspaper, I mean think about this just in your own heads, right, If you're gonna pay for whatever name your local paper, right, You're gonna pay almost the same amount to get Netflix as you do your local paper
every month. Yeah, something's off there. I mean, you get a lot more out of Netflix, you know what I mean than you do out of the local paper that way, when meanwhile, two things. One, there's either a free news app right that does alert you to stories in your area, or you don't need the news app necessarily at that kind of price anyway, Like you said, a lot better if you just pay a singular fee once a year, at least you'll have steady customers. You'll have steady
well the news app, like the new news break is one. We talked about it before. It's kind of a huge threat to these companies. I'm sure it's hurting them, Oh yeah, because a lot of the content that these publishers publish and are charging people for are simply pressure releases that they're copy and pasting. Yeah uh. And and those pressure releases are available for free
on the news apps. And then there's people that are you know, getting paid a small amount of money per article, like say five dollars, when they you know, anyone can write on there, and they're creating news too, and they can copy and paste the press release or reword it and write all kinds of stuff. And there's I'm sure people you know in India wherever writing articles about where you live. Yeah, exactly, because letter you know, I could pick up and say, okay, I'm gonna write for the
Michigan Concern and I could just write all about it. I've never even been there. I don't even know where the streets are, nothing, But anyway, it's gotten to a weird business where there's a disconnect. Plus there are the people that only really want the headlines anyway, which you're already shared on whatever the hell app they're on, or whatever the hell social media thing they're on anyway, right, and then you got guys like me who you know,
podcasters and podcasters. There's local podcasts by the way, where it's like it's just about your area and stuff like that, right, and you know we're giving most of those away for free. So I mean, there's tons of free content out there that if somebody really is interested, they don't got to pay the local paper twelve bucks a month or whatever, right, they can get it elsewhere. But social media is weird too because now that's peeling back. I mean, yes, Facebook has fallen out of favor anyway.
Elon Musk, in my mind, has destroyed Twitter, even though Twitter is now becoming something else because now there's radio shows on Twitter. There's you know, different programs on there, like it's almost like it's a TV video platform. Everything Now Twitter is right communication of all sorts. The only thing he doesn't have is his own version of PayPal on there, I think yet, But I don't know what groc is. Do you know what groc is?
I'm not sure it's some new thing on and ever since Musk took it over and started monetizing the blue check marks and stuff. Sure, he's still got a financial model in his hands and it is massive, but seems like people are not really getting their information from there either, according to these things.
I'll tell you what else is weird is something that survived for the longest time is the Drudge Report, which he never updated his website, like it looked the same from nineteen ninety six or whatever till like, you know, two years ago when I was looking at it, it still looked the same. You know, the Drudge Report. Oh sure, I yeh, that's still go to it. Yeah, But now, from twenty twenty to twenty twenty
four, this weird shift happened. Do you think it had anything to do, by the way, with the change in society because of the lockdown and now you know, people doing things more remotely and the rise of the food delivery and all that kind of stuff. Do you think that that had anything to do with it? Because during that time period, all of these social media sites where people were seemingly turning for all of their news and information lost
tons of traffic. I don't know where that traffic went, do you. Well, So Google and Facebook and Twitter forget about Twitter, it's got its
own problems, but they're simply setting less traffic to news websites period. So Facebook, for example, after the Trumpell action, you know, there's this whole mania for about two or three years about fake news and all these stories about all these websites that sprout up that found a way that they could get all this traffic right from Facebook, you know, by writing articles that got people's attention, and there are people making a living doing that, and there's
a huge backlash. The Democrats in Washington really in Facebook racked to that by kicking a lot of these websites off and so forth. But they also about a year and a half ago basically said we're just gonna start downgrading news in general in the Facebook feed, and then really starting a year ago, they accelerated that process to now they're hardly setting in traffic at all to news websites. And if you have a Facebook account, if you load it up,
I mean, this is at least what I'm seeing. And I should be seeing news sites and news stories because will I read them. Know, I'm a consumer of news, but I don't see that in my Facebook feed at all. And what they said they were going to do, and I believe it's what they're doing, because it seems to be what I'm seeing is engineer the Facebook feed so that it's more algorithmic driven to show you content that sort
of like the way TikTok works. It may not be things not people you're following or pages that you're following, but stuff that they think you'll react to or will keep you on the site, you know, as long as possible or turning as much as possible. So it's become really algorithmic driven. And I'm sure there's people that are just creating content for that algorithm. Now, what I noticed, and I've heard others comment on that say the same thing.
So I don't think it's just happening to me. I'll ask you when I say this. But what I notice, and I'm looking at loading it up now, is I'm seeing less content on Facebook from people that are my my so you know, your friends list, or that are pages that I even follow. Like, for instance, I'm scrolling down. The first thing is something about star Trek from a page I don't believe, I follow something some strange page, another star Trek thing, then something called another page I
don't follow, heavy and classic rock. Now here's a local advertisement. Finally a picture from someone that's in my face, you know, Facebook friend. And now I'm going through again another These are pages I'm not following, right, No, I get it all. It's just none of these people, and it's all the stuff I'm seeing. None of it's about news. It's all cultural stuff like movies. Yeah, it's like mi Amazon. It's like my Amazon feed used to be Okay, since you like this, then you'll
probably like this. Uh, And that's pretty much what they're doing on there. I would guarantee you. If I open up Facebook, I'm gonna get
some Star Trek. I'll probably get some other stuff about TV shows that are similar to TV shows that I that I watch or whatever, but not necessarily from the pages I follow or the people I follow, And in fact, unless somebody sends me a direct message, my attention is not being pulled to say like you like it used to be, or even JP satilly you puts out Yeah, I don't see JP stuff, and I'm sure he's posting every
day. I'm seeing something right now. I don't follow this. I mean literally, it's a picture of a stake in the pages called homemade cooking. But you know so now, will you looking up groceries or cooking or anything on Amazon or on Google recently? Well, because that's what I'm discovering, is that it's more about your connectivity to like your search engines and the stuff
you're interested in, like that, like food. If you're interested in food for one day, they turn around and they start feeding you stuff about food. If you're looking for a TV show or you look up something you know to try and find out when they're going to put out you know, something new or whatever, you'll get that even if you look it up off of that site, it comes back around into the algorithm. But like you said,
it's mostly cultural stuff and it's not the local stuff anymore. There was a time too that Facebook was very localized, right where they would show you, Okay, you're interested in food, here's a local restaurant. I suspect and I heard someone else say this. I mean that they're theorizing that. What's probably happening is that real people, you know, are not posting as much on there as they used to at all, and so Facebook is filling
the gap with all this other stuff. And and but at the same it's probably actually discouraged, you know, because you know, it's probably even driving fewer people to comment. But they look at it like, yeah, I'm sure it works at keeping people looking at the stuff or entertained. But only
but only for the big corporate stuff. Because look, as an independent producer of content, right, every time I release a podcast, uh, the post goes on Facebook automatically from one of my sites, and then uh, you know, then other things feed onto Facebook and tell people I put out a new podcast, I'm doing a live show. Whatever. Nobody sees it it looks like to me, it goes out there, and people used to engage with it. And I used to see traffic come to the website from
Facebook. No more, it's gone. Facebook traffic is gone. I mean I can get I can see them. I have a Facebook page for Wall Street Window. Eleven thousand followers, right, eleven thousand likes. Okay, Now, every time you post a new article on Wall Street Window, doesn't it post to Facebook automatically for you? No, I don't have it. You don't have that set up. Okay, sorry, but okay, but I posted one today, you know, eleven thousand followers, right, one
hundred and twenty two people saw it. Yeah, that's insane. How is it You have eleven thousand people say I'm interested in this, I want to follow this, and you've only got one hundred engaged. I mean even phone callers do better than that. When you've got a radio station, I mean, and they tell you, you know, one out of one hundred calls there basically, right, So that's crazy though, one hundred people out of eleven thousand. Yeah. Yet, no, you see there's something odd there
where your stuff is not being put under people's noses. So even if they're following your page, even if they're a fan of your page. Because you're not the larger corporate entity, you're not getting put into those feeds. So when you go on to the feed or the news story, because you notice how they have the thing where it's like you can put this on your regular
feed or your news feed or whatever. You know, I think nobody else is seeing it when you put it on the news feed because even though you know, theoretically that should pop up for people that are your friends, for people that follow you, because some people that are you know, not your friends, do follow you on Facebook, right, they should see that. It should just come up in their feed somewhere. But if it does, it must come up way down in their feed, because I don't think anybody's
seeing these anymore on Facebook. I mean it's almost, yeah, you see nothing I'm posting, right, And like I said, at least a few times a week, right, a radio show posts. On top of that, I do go there say something else, I put out another thing, Hey, you know, donate to the network, whatever. And I'm starting to feel like I shouldn't bother because I don't think anybody's seeing it really unless they very purposely, go to my little radio show group on purpose, go
and visit that. And here's the thing. When they land on the Facebook site, they're encouraged to go to these other places, like you said, Star Trek or whatever. If you start clicking on that, you'll probably go through a maze and you'll be you know, Okay, what's the new show. Hey, there's some news regarding this, there's a new DVD release, whatever, And an hour later you've been on Star Trek. Now you know what I mean. You'll never like even bother to go look at another interest
or see what your friends are doing. Unless you decide to message me directly, you're probably not gonna hear from me, you know. And you and I we follow each other, you know. If you say something on there and I see it, I read it. It used to be anyway I would go, I'd comment on it. You and I used to both comment on JP stilly stuff because it was really brilliant, like little mini articles. Right, but when was the last time JP popped up on your page?
It's been a long time. Let me see time. Yeah, he posted something six hours ago to two posts three posts today. Okay, but did it come up today. I didn't see a single one to It didn't come up in your feet. No. See, and this is a guy that you and I would definitely like to read, we like to follow, we like to hear what he has to say, right, I mean, you know, I'm not just kissing up to JP here, but I'm just saying he's a guy that we would look at, right, I mean, let's
see what his new article is outside of him. Mean, you and I both read the Rundown right when he publishes a new article a lot of times if it's even remotely interesting a topic wise, you and I go read it on a lot of different websites when we know it's happening. But are we getting informed that he's publishing an article. I don't think so anymore, because unless I see it in my email, I don't know he's publishing anymore. I mean, do you, Well I get the emails. No, you
get the emails, but you don't see it on your Facebook. Well you're not using Twitter anymore, right, You're you're not even using Twitter anymore? Right? No, so, but you still go to Facebook. I know you do that, and yeah, yeah I do twice a day. How was that going for your local stuff, because for a while there you were following like the local councils and stuff on there is any of that in your feed? Well that's an example of all this too. So I still do
that, but I don't see it doesn't appear in my feed. I have to go to these pages. Right, it looked for myselves. But that's what I was saying about my radio show. Unless you're going to the you know, the coalition of a factors group on Facebook, you're not seeing my radio shows getting published. You're not seeing I mean, I got people literally every once in a while sending me a mess SAIDs going, do you still
do a show? And meanwhile they're following me, they're in the group, they're they're they they follow the page I have and they don't know that I'm still doing a show. I mean, it's it's bizarre. So anyway, if you're an independent content creator, that's where you're at. But again, if you're a larger corporate entity, I'm sure you know McDonald's is still getting their ads done and grub Hub is getting advertising on there, and I'm sure
you know, like you said, the big the big companies. I mean, uh, do you have an ad for what do you call it? Paramount plus? I mean, you know, yeah, you're probably getting all that stuff still, but are you getting any of the independent content people? Probably not? Right, Well, I'm saying it's not just independent content people, but the national news outlets too aren't getting well ultimately, yeah, but ultimately that's what I'm getting to. Look, you don't have the independent content
creators. No, you don't have the local news coming up. It's not being fed to you at all, is it? Okay? What about the big stories? So are you seeing stuff about the conflict in the Middle East? Are you seeing stuff about politics? I mean, because I know you follow politics a bit, are you seeing stuff about that in your feed? Nope? No? So what is there? You know what I mean? Like, well, I'm going through it now. And a picture of I
mean, this is the kind of crap I'm saying. I mean, I don't know why this is even I don't It's bags of water in a refrigerator, okay, And it says it's a screen you know, it's one of these themes, I guess. And it says tired of boiling water every time you make pasta boil a few gallons at the beginning of the week and freeze it for later. What is this? Okay, I haven't seen that one, Mike. I don't know what's on your feed with the boiling water and all. But okay, I mean, why is that even on there?
I don't know, you know, I don't even know. I guess it's a joke. I don't know. How are you going to use your boiled water if it's bagged and frozen? What you got to reboil it again, don't you? I mean, okay, this is where we're at, boiling bags of frozen bags of boiled water. Okay, sure, why not? But Mike, what does this mean for the delivery of news then? Right? I mean forget about the quality of the content once again? As I said, I mean, we could sit and talk about that all day.
What is actually in the news? The news headlines? It's pretty depressing. What are they doing? They're jamin us with twenty twenty four. They're jamming us with the Trump trial in the broadcast mediums, which, by the way, you know, did you take note that a guy set himself on fire outside of the Trump trial? Did you see that last week? So? I didn't see it. I saw the headline and then uh, actually someone sent me his manifesto. Did you see that? Yeah? Yeah, of
course I'm on his substack, so because he has a substack. See that's the other question. I have read the manifesto. Yeah, yeah, no, I read that too. But okay, what I was wondering though, is did you see that fed to you during that time? Because broadcast news didn't really cover it. I just saw, I mean saw, I saw the headline somewhere. I don't remember where. I don't really want I don't watch the television, no, but you see my But you see. My
point is that something like that happened. You figure that that would have been shoved right under your nose on these feeds, and it was not. Uh the guy died, you know, and we talked about it on the Friday
call show. Yeah, he passed away like on Saturday, I think, but we talked about it on the Friday show because I read the manifesto and really couldn't figure out what his point was, you know, I mean I get his points, I understand, and frankly, most of it is stuff that I say, Uh, you know, both parties are bull crap and everything else. But but nobody can can explain to me adequately why it is he decided to do this outside of Trump's trial. What was the actual point
he was making? I mean, you know, I couldn't figure that out. Yeah, I mean, I'm not saying I agree with this, but he was making he I don't believe this is happening, but he I mean, I've got my own problems with crypto and bitcoin. Yeah, but he was claiming basically that that crypto market is a conspiracy. Uh uh, what would you call Ponzi scheme? The phrase he used created a bout Peter Teel and a few other people to create a fascist order. Once it once,
they pump and dump it. Oh No, I get that. No, I get that. And I also get that he's saying that, you know, both sides of the you know, the political fence, are on the same team. I get that he was saying that if you read the whole manifesto he talks about, you know that here's the worldwide conspiracy that's going on. There's the financial grip that they have on us, all of us,
et cetera. And I got all that, But what I didn't get is truly, like, what was the point he was making with this display, you know, I think, yeah, for him to kill himself and and and not have a clear point you can easily see what it is and forcing
us to guess, I think it's a sign he was mentally ill. Well maybe, but but I would also I told someone, when you study these topics in general, uh, if you try to figure out like there's some some things I agreed with what he was saying too, and some things I thought he was wrong, but he certainly thought he was correct and everything he was saying. And if you try to take these deep politics, look all that topics and think you can figure it all out exactly who the players are
and exactly what they're doing, you're gonna go crazy. You're almost guaranteed some mental You're guaranteed to get crazy. And you and and you can we can think or maybe some people have done that, and I mean we can think of examples. Uh, maybe that what's his name, Michael Rupert maybe did that, or that Danny Carson was his name, Castellario, Maybe that happened
to him. I mean probably would think of people that that that. Maybe maybe there's people in the Kennedy case, Well we've seen him exactly seen and known people that if they get deeply enough into you know, the the weeds on these things long enough, it's almost to guarantee that something happens to them emotionally or mentally, because it just it breaks you down after a while. I'd suggest that what a way to metaphor for it is they're trying to figure
out who all the people on the inside are and what they're doing. Well, here's the thing about that. Let's talk about the people on the inside. And if they do that, try that. Well, first of all, they know not to do that. Yeah, if you're saying the mafia or some organized crime group, you know, you're not supposed to run around and ask what is going on all the time with this person that person. You're not supposed to ask, you know, every little detail supposed to know.
You're not supposed to do it and not wanted to know everything. And that's really the people on the inside, I would suggest, no, that's how they're supposed to do to handle the world that they're in. And those on the inside who try to figure it all out also go insane, and that's probably what happened, for example, to James Angleton as one one, you know, one famous example, when he started, you know, imagining
conspiracies everywhere and this kind of stuff. Eventually you become delusional. So you're you're figuring that this guy just became delusional and somehow it made sense in his head to go light himself on fire, even though on the outside he couldn't even fully explain what the hell that was. Yeah, that's what I think. Okay, fair enough, But what I'm saying is that that wasn't even something that came up in people's speeds. You'd figure a couple of years ago
that would have been the viral story, wouldn't it. You know, that would have been everywhere. And indeed it was like, you know, not that big a deal. Now this is very much changed. Is all I'm saying is that what did you What did y'all make of that? When you're talking Friday, I haven't thought about that. Well, that was it. I didn't know what to make of it, except that it was like, it was very strange to me that it wasn't the biggest headline, that nobody
made the effort to figure out why the hell had happened. It was just sort of like, well, this kind of happened anyway, moving on, you know, it's it's yeah, yeah, actually I did try to read a mainstream story about it after I read the manifesto, and it just labeled him as a conspiracy nut. Right, didn't even bother to tell you what he wrote it all, Yeah, right, nothing exactly, just he's just
a conspiracy theorist. See. But that's the thing is these very homogenized kind of like what you get out of Wikipedia now is about the level of information you get out of the world Wikipedia, you know, and it may be right, it may not be right, it might be off a little bit. The only thing Wikipedia is good for is they pretty quickly adjust. When somebody dies, they pretty quickly put their date of death on their entry at Wikipedia. That's about it. Other than that, it's a mess. And
that's the information stream that's out there now. People search it themselves with phrases and half baked phrases usually, and they just use Google to go get their information. So nobody wants the local paper anymore. Nobody's using Facebook anymore. People are just griping about their opinions on any social media platform, whatever it is, whether it's to own the libs or to make their big point or to try and you know, be an influencer somewhere. That's all they do,
and that's it. It's about your opinion and your world and you don't have to be connected or informed about it anymore. And it seems to be the general sort of persuasion. And yet there are people like you and me who are going, I'd like to be informed and know what's happening in the
world. But where are we to turn at this point? Right? You know, you can pay a lot of subscriptions and maybe they'll let you access more than three articles a month or an article a month, you know, like, like I said, New York Times even does this now where it's like, you know, oh no, you've already seen an article this month. Come back you know later, or subscribe pay us a couple dollars a month. It's amazing to me that even with their advertising revenue, they're still
going after the subscription model. Anyway, It's a very weird time in the information stream, is all I'm saying. So with the oversaturation and then with the twisting of information via the algorithms, I mean, how are people going to become informed about things when they want it? You know, think about this selection process that's coming up, and Okay, Trump's court cases blah blah blah blah. But outside of that, are people going to be informed about?
You know? Where are people going to do that? Now? Remember the old days where you might read about what is the candidate's position, what's going on there? Unless you're going to go to the candidate's websites and read their platforms for yourself and hope there's a platform on there, where are you going to learn about that? Even if you wanted to make an educated decision about who to vote for, who to support, who's on your side and who's not. Mike, I mean, is any of this gonna be helpful
or healthy going forward? What do you think? It doesn't seem like it's gonna get much better, does it. No, it seems like it's degrading and getting worse by the means. So Mike, I know you got to get going pretty soon, and I'll let you go, that's for sure. But before you do, how do you want to tie a bow on this? I mean, the information stream is raging. Social media had its effect, but seems to be uh, you know, doing something else. Nowadays,
the broadcast news is not informing people. Local news is not informing people. Print media is is you know, dead? Uh, where are we at here? What are we gonna do to be informed going forward outside of going to Wall Street, Window dot com and being informed over there. But I mean, where are we going to be informed about anything we care about? What do you think? Well? I mean, I think people are
gonna have to subscribe to things like JP Satilli's news vandal. You know, they're gonna have to subscribe to sources that they trust to sift through some of the mess. So we spend an hour a day, you know, looking at various news websites themselves, which you know or both or something. Yeah, but the majority of people, A thinkin they're going to sit there and
just take whatever their phone gives them. You know, that's true, and that's going to be that And I guess they want it all delivered, They want it all delivered on demand, So you know, make sure you subscribe to the right stuff. I guess. Huh, Well, unfortunately, you know that's what people are going to do, and they're going to go and look for sources that just tell them stories that they want to believe in. Right, Whether they're true or not, because they just well, ultimately,
that's the greatest problem is that nobody is looking to be informed. All they're looking for is what verification of their preconception. They want the echo chamber. They want somebody to tell them the opinion they already have defeed it back to them once again. Which is how some of these places have stayed in business now for the past ten years, I think is just by telling people what they want to hear over and over again. It doesn't matter if it's really
happening or if it's actual news. It doesn't matter if you being informed about what's going on in the world around you objectively. Uh, They're just going to feedback to you the things that you want to hear. And that's it. That's that's the business model. You want to be successful. Find a group of people that have a shared opinion and feed them that opinion back to them. I mean, doesn't that seem to be the way of the future
or am I wrong? That's what we're witnessing. But it's also what the algorithms are doing, you know, yeah, and rewarding and and what's bizarre is we may be at a point like it just use Facebook as this Facebook feed as example, where the people are creating using let's say AI tools or something to create content for the algorithms, and then other people are creating doing the same thing and reaction to that content. So it's now becoming a cycle
of strangeness. It is gonna get worse and worse. It's just the recording of the echo, and then the recording of the recording of the echo, and that's all there is to it. And again, it all starts with your opinion and the thing, the preconceived notion that you want fed to you in the first place, and the algorithm is waiting to serve you, and that's all there is to it. Anyways, Mike Swanson, Wallstreet, Window dot com, do buy his books and do go to his website, because
you know, we're not getting served by the algorithms here. I don't know. I mean, your books still pop up. If I go to Amazon and look up another book, your books still pop up and tell me that I'd be interested in your book, even though I've told Amazon already I have your books, but they at least try and sell me your books. But anyway, you know, it is the thing, and we'll be talking about the Lancer conference coming up this year too, because I hear tell that Mike
might go and might present there. Maybe I'm gonna be there, I'll be the MC and all that. But anyway, we'll get into that in future shows. And next week I'm gonna be talking to Carmin Savastano about an article he's written recently. So Mike, I thank you for doing this with me once again, and uh, we'll probably get back to it in about two weeks. Okay, sounds good. You have go excellent Wallstreet Window dot com be in the no go to Wallstreet, Window dot com, Why the Vietnam
War and also the War State books by Mike Swanson. Yes, I recommend all that check it out on nochelli dot com. Check it out on Wall Street Window dot com, Revelation through Conversation, Walls, Window dot dot Gold, Silver, the stock Market, Wallstreet, Window dott Perhaps you're invested deeply, Perhaps you're not in deep enough. You're thinking about getting started Wall Street,
Windows dot com, do dot Com. Michael Swanson, the brilliant author of the War State, understood these trends professionally for many years, and now he gives you the benefit of his knowledge Wall Street stream window, dott go there, now go there, now go there now could he was expressed my caller stools there anyone else who happens to get on the air O Jelley dot com who not necessarily replied debews little Jelly dot com or jumko' chilly, and
we are not responsible. We're getting stupidity which might need students. Thank you. This is James Corbet at quarter report dot com and you're listening to the Ocelly affected o'hlly dot com. Go ahead, caller, I'm inter in the truth about the Davey assassination. Right Well, what do you want to know? Dy Baker's wild claim oswal girlfriends he knew Ruby and Barry hands to weapons. Really, I imagine I could claim I have four wheels. It doesn't
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Air Strikes and Tanks by Larry Hancock. Secret wars became a staple of US covert operations and are still happening today. Larry Hancock's book In Denial rips the cover off many of them, using new files. It exposes things about the Bay of Pigs that no one has ever written about before. It shows why it really failed and why the United States did not earn from it. It also shows why other countries today are doing secret operations with more success. This
is the book that puts what some want to deny into the light. In Denial, Secret Wars with Air Strikes and Tanks Larry Hancock. For more information, go to Larry hyphen Handcock dot com. Pick up your copy of In Denial at Amazon dot com in digital or physical foh Chili dot com. The War State by Michael Swanson explains the great national transformation that took place and put the Kennedy presidency in the context of the times and reveals never before published information
about the Cuban missile crisis. President Kennedy would not have been assassinated if he had been president two hundred years ago. His assassination took place in the context of the Cold War and the rise of the national security state. Before World War II, the United States was a continental republic. In the decade that
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