The o'chilly Effect is sponsored by Wall Street Window dot com and listeners like you, yeah now checky. Apologies to you guys on the live stream. Of course, you probably already gave up and moved on, and you'll come back later to listen to replays on the twenty four seventh stream on o Chelly dot com Radio. But those of you that stuck around, you're going to be rewarded with the live show because it is the twenty fifth day of April twenty
twenty three, allegedly according to that thing we call a calendar. And this is indeed this show you're looking for. How do I know that? Because you wouldn't have found it otherwise. Uh, getting buried all over the place feels like I'm getting shadow band in my own shadows. Anyways, whatever it is it is, and I know a guy that that might know a little something about shadow banning. But let me set this up first. Really really
happy to have William Ramsey along with me on a Tuesday Tears Day. That's what it is. It is the day of death, so appropriate because you know t y R is the goddess of death, right I think so? If I remember my esoteric stuff, anyway, are we talking about that tonight? Maybe stick around, we could talk about the global death cult. Maybe this is part of it. Why I heard something in the news speeds the other day and now I'm getting a little a little bit of noise from you
William over there. I don't know what that is. Sounded like a refrigerator ice or something. But we we are live. It's okay. Look if your icemakers acting up good. But anyway, back to the story. I was listening to, uh, you know, the the audio news speeds like I do when I'm doing other work, and I heard a lady mentioned a body being dumped in the Chicago River. So my ears perked up a little
bit because something just I don't know what it was. It was like, wait a minute, geographically, that makes sense for something I heard before. And then she said something about the smiley faced killers. Now I don't know who this author was, because I'm listening to News Nation. You know that network that recently hired a meat Headquomo over there or Frado or whatever he calls himself or doesn't call himself, who cares from the privileged family over there,
right, okay, So anyway, he's doing his thing. And he's on a Christian conservative network now, which is how they identify themselves. Who am I to argue whatever it is it is? But they were having some true crime discussions, and I've been listening to some true crime stuff off and on lately. Missus O makes me so bear with me, and I do listen to some true crime stuff when there's really something to discuss the resurgence of,
like the Jeffrey Dahmer thing and all that recently interest in it. People acting like Geea, I never knew this happened because you weren't alive in the nineties, I understand, but I was Anyway. The thing is, I've been asking for several years where did all the serial killers gone? And or where where did they all go? I was thinking of that song Wearable Flowers Gone? But there it is, right, Where have all the serial killers gone?
We don't see the sensational reporting, we don't see the follow up on the prosecutions, We don't see all that so much. But maybe we do and we don't realize it. Maybe nobody's been prosecuted, but there is action occurring as we speak. And William Ramsay is somebody who's paid attention to this for a long time. And meanwhile, now I'm starting to see static. People ask me when I had him on about the smiley faced Killers, what
the hell is he talking about? Is he seeing patterns where there are none? And I said, no, it does appear as though there's some kind of pattern here. I can't discern what's going on. I'm not deeply researched here on this, but i gotta say there's something going on here. I don't know what it is, a little skeptical on my part, but again, those people that were even skeptical then now turning to it, noticing it. And there appears to be a fringe is of the online communities that are
starting to pay attention to it. So it's not just ROBERTA. Glassville Smith and William Ramsey. Of course, if you're not familiar with William Ramsey, you'll be familiar with him by the time I'm done talking. And I'm gonna shut up now. And first of all, asked my friend how he's doing. I took a few minutes to talk to him before the show, which was why we went late. But if you're hearing the podcast, you don't care. It doesn't matter So anyway, William, how are you doing to
night, sir, I'm doing great. Thanks for the invite, checked great to be with you. It is absolutely great to have you along. And look, I wanted to make sure I wasn't starting to see patterns and things that didn't exist too, because all of a sudden, I'm seeing interest in this and people using phrases that you were one of the few people out there using only a few months ago, only last year even, And you've been
on this for a bit, right, no doubt. My first documentary I put out in twenty seventeen, so I've been studying this for at least six years, all in cases and staying kind of in the community of online researchers for sure. Yeah yeah, I mean I took notice of you a couple of years ago with it, but I wasn't sure what to make of it. I'm still not sure what to make of it, honestly, because we don't have investigative agencies following up and putting these things together and showing us the
evidence that makes sense. But on the surface, when you have a pattern of behaviors and mysterious deaths and there is you know, logistical links and there is, you know, profiles that you can put together. I don't know, maybe I've seen too many movies. It seems like somebody should be putting these things together and they're not. So, you know, tell me a little bit about that. Well, you know what I'm getting ahead of myself. First, let's go back to the ABC's tell people who the smiley faced
killers are. I know you don't have the perpetrators in hand, but tell people what the pattern that you're seeing and why it is that you believe there is a group acting here, and it would have to be a group to accomplish what I'm seeing here in the pattern. But tell us about this. I believe there's independent cells actually committing these types of crimes. But it got
its name from the two original investigators who noticed the phenomenon. It's really just a phenomenon of young men being out at night, later disappearing, and later to be found in water, oftentimes much later than they should have been found weeks or even over a month later. And the two people who were researching it were Gilbertson, who was a criminologist I believe in Minnesota, and Gannon, who was a New York police officer. So they both saw this phenomenon
and kind of got together. They wrote a book called Case Studies in Forensic Drownings and covered fourteen cases, and they gave it the name the Smiley Face Killers because there's an association between where they thought a lot of these bodies were put in the water and finding this smiley face. So that's how it got its name. It really could just be called the phenomenon of young men being murdered and then dumb water is really it. But that really started. They
noticed the phenomenon in the mid nineties. Really the first case was a case in New York a kid by the name of Patrick McNeil. He was a Fordham University student. He disappeared out of Manhattan and later to be found kind of down the Hudson, much farther than he should have been, and he
was later to be found. They did a full autopsy on Cyril whacked if people know, the JFK investigation, But that same famous forensic examiner examined the body of Patrick McNeill and found later something the police did not disclose is that he had been tortured with a blowtorch and hid in the head with a hammer. So he had been taken somewhere, horrible things happened to him. Then he was later dumped in the water. So that was the beginning of it.
And this phenomenon really has taken place in the national media has done a few shows, and some of the talk show host doctor Oz among others, have done kind of shows within the last couple of years on it. But I would say the corporate media has failed to really look into this phenomenon. The online communities, however, are I've never seen it this hot, this much interest within the last couple of months because it's happening independently in two different
metropolitan areas. Austin, Texas and Chicago, Illinois have literally had people found within the last week each of those cities, but they were people found any
streak of deaths over the last year. Ladybird Lake has had eight bodies found in the water in Chicago's about on the same piece, and so they're calling it a serial killer independently, but they're not seeing this phenomenon with the kind of wide angle lens that I tried to do, which is to show that it's this phenomenon of young men being in a bar, probably drugged and dumbed in the river is happening all over the US and the UK and the world.
Really, Okay, so let me take the wide angle lens and apply the skeptics eye to it. Okay, in all fairness, I come from the Northeast. Now, dumping a body in a body of water is not
unusual up there, all right. I even took time to study something that happened in one of my one of the places that I would call my hometown in Neptune City, where there was this a group of young people who there was a girl that disappeared for a little bit, right, And it turns out that one of her quote friends end quote, had discovered she inherited some cash and decided to kill her and dump her body. And I knew all the locations. I knew where these people lived, I knew the streets,
and so therefore I got kind of hooked into it for a minute. And they dumped her. Now they had done a pretty nasty job of bludgeoning her. It turns out it was one guy, maybe it was two. The two of them went to trial. Certainly, it's an isolated incidence, and I don't believe it's part of this at all okay. Now, the only reason why I bring it up is because again it's a common thing if you're near bodies of water and being from New Jersey and New York, guess what.
Bodies get dumped in the HUDs, and they get dumped in the various inlets, they get dumped in the ocean, William. I mean, this is just a fact of life when it comes to murder in the northeast of the US. Now we are talking about two different areas where this is happening. What is different from say just an increased to currency here in murders where people are just getting dumped in bodies of water. And I'm just going with
people here because I use the girl as an example. But you know, victims can vary as to whether they're male or female all the time, and for various purposes. It could be robbery, it could be vengeance, it could be you know, you slept with my wife. I mean, lots of reasons for people to kill somebody and dumping in a body of water thinking that they destroyed the evidence, thinking the body may never be discovered, especially
if it's in the ocean or something. Although generally speaking, unless you go out far enough and you weigh it down, and they tend to get dragged
back in by the times and wind up on a beach somewhere. The thing is, what would be the difference between that just sort of happening and maybe there's just an increase of murders, And I mean, there must be some other common links here outside of bludgeting or the fact that it's young men, or what are the other common traits here that make this form a pattern as opposed to maybe it's just an increase in murders and people are just dumping the
bodies of water. It's a great question. I think that really what sets these apart is the focus on men coming out of bars, so they're out late at night and like they're being hunted. So I think that that's the difference. I do think that this has been a kind of tactic or technique of the mob dumping bodies and water. This goes all the way, that's
just like you said. But what sets these apart really is this kind of like innocent, non targeted victim and later to be found later oftentimes not at the same time they were disappeared, like they were abducted, right, So like the first title of my first documentary is who is abducting, torturing and murdering college age kids? So there's some kind of abduction element where these people
are not found right away. They just had one guy from Waukegan in between kind of like the area actually where Jeffrey Dahmer kind of applied his trade of murder in between Milwaukee and Chicago. But he was found. He was disappeared from Waukegan on Saint Patrick's Day twenty twenty three, just found thirty three days later, like literally within the last week. His body was found. So why is this guy not found right away? And these are massive searches.
Shamus Gray was a work he was part of the navy. He was I think a merchant seaman in training. So there's a massive search for this guy. Why isn't he found right away? And this is the same kind of pattern that ties a lot of these kind of things called the Smiley piece killings together, is that they're typically young people who could swim. Shamus Gray was in the navy. He no water. How does he just fall in and drowned? It's very unusual, especially for this guy. I think he was
twenty one. So this is just one of many cases. There's probably three to four hundred cases. Well, again, approaching it from the skeptic angle. Okay, that girl that I just brought up, that was murdered in
Neptune City, they never found her body. They found all kinds of stuff tied to her body, and they got these guys to confess about dumping her off a bridge in Belmar, which, if you're familiar with the area, there's an inlet that comes off of the ocean right and they dumped her off a bridge in Belmar, New Jersey, right right outside in Neptune City where they murdered her, and they got them to confess. But quite honestly, they never found the body. And that does happen with bodies of water.
Now, is there something that appears to be intentional about the way these bodies are being dumped? I brought up the fact that quite often, if you take it out far enough off of the shore and you dump it and you weigh it down, that thing may never resurface or might get consumed by the aquatic life, and if it does resurface, nobody will recognize it as a body. Things like this. Is there a pattern of well, technique here
used to weight down the body or something like that. Or is it just that there is a time element where it appears as though the body wasn't in the body of water for a whole month, but the person had been missing for a whole month, right, I mean, I think that's a good question. Some of the information is not obviously not divulged by the police on some of these deaths. For example, they found some bodies in Austin. They're calling it the Ladyburg Lake killer or ripper or the Rainy Street ripper.
So these phenomenons taken on these interesting names, variant names. I guess they just title the serial killing something. But for example, he was just not found in water. He was found near water. So and just like I mentioned before, this young man Patrick McNeil, the injuries to his body were not disclosed by the police. The family had to get the autopsy and look through the autopsy to find out what happened. So whether these are people are
drugged. The original investigators can And and Gilbertson found a high incidence of GHB in the bodies of the victims they studied, and they did a very detailed study, and that was you know, fourteen guys, so like half of them had had higher levels of GHB, which is endogenous to the body, means it's already present, but not in these high doses that they found. So I think a lot of these people this is kind of like a drugging. And go back to Jeffrey Dahmer, and he was very much of a
drug He was getting drugs to his victims and people. If you remember that, he actually got kicked out of right, he was kicked out of the bath houses and all that stuff when he was drugging different people. Initially he
wasn't trying to kill him. He was just trying to incapacitate him. And then he had somebody really really needed medical assistance in one of the bath houses, and then he got himself banned if I remember the story, right, and they sort of were like, yeah, he's not even welcome in the gay underground. Here is there an element of that going on, because look, GHB is typically what I think of immediately is they called it to date rape drug. That was the first date rape drug I ever heard of.
Rue hypnol is more common nowadays, I think, but GHB is classically known as a date rape rug. Is it not? Yes, it is, and it's there's actually been articles in Austin that they're calling this the roofy killer, so people are getting roofied. And they actually had a victim in twenty nineteen who was suspected to be a victim. He woke up in a ditch and his name was I won't give this full name, but his name is Chris, and he didn't remember anything for sixty hours. So he had been
drinking down in Rainy Street and just blacked out. And this is actually very common, and I studied some of these other cases. There was a gay killer in London. His name was Stephen Port and he was drugging people and was responsible for death. So I think that these some of these guys are I think they're gay motivated. I think that's why some of these victims are met. This pool of victims is male not female, so like there's a heterosexual killer, I guess, so the women are the victims. But so
I think that that's what's going on here. There's a there's a high proportion of drugging, and that's that's really what's going on. And I think it's kind of the perfect crime too, because a victim, some maybe survive. They have to actually had another victim survived recently within the last four months in Boston. Boston and New York City were the hotspots for this kind of death. But these people don't remember stuff. They're really their memories are not good.
So I think if you if somebody gets drugged and the perpetrator knows they're drug they know this person isn't going to remember facts about the crime. They're just gonna you know, if they're not victims, they will just wake up. And there's actually one of the most prolific rapists in UK history was in Manchester and his name was Reynards Sinaga and they think he raped over one hundred or two hundred men using kind of this technique. And what he would do
is he would go out into the streets at night. He would wait for the late night. He would wait for the men to leave the bars at one they're your two, finding drunk men or stragglers and invite them back to the place and then and then drug them and raped them. Well, they caught him with that because he had and a lot of these men didn't know they were raped. They caught him because somebody they caught him on his phone.
He had recorded a lot of stuff. But what if Snaga had had dead bodies like Jeffrey Dahmer, But if he had to dispose the bodies. So some of these people have been caught, so people say, oh, these people are committing these crimes, this phenomenon having been caught. I wouldn't surmise that actually they have been caught, but maybe not for a serial killing, right, They've been caught from one crime or two crimes. So I think the study of this is really it really is this modern phenomenon, a
very large bill happening all over the world. Well, this can become a Rosetta stone because quite honestly, if you have here's what I'm imagining, Okay, the only way that this starts to make sense in my mind is if you have people collaborating on this kind of thing and the idea of using the
date rape incapacitating drugs, and there's a shame factor attached to it. There is a look, if you got a non homosexual man who has now been raped, even if he does have some vague recollection of it, a lot of times they don't want to report it, okay, because it's just you know, who wants to go through that. Um. And women do the same thing. Yeah, women do the same thing. Women do the same
thing. But I'm telling you that it's a little different for a man because quite frankly, I mean, at least in my age group, I know it would be very different because look, you don't want to cop to the pack that you got yourself in that position. You really do feel like you made a mistake here, and you may have, uh, it may have been a mistake to be trusting go go hang out with somebody you didn't know, uh, this kind of thing, and you didn't expect this, you
know. Um. And and also you don't have a great memory of it. So there's a couple of aspects here. Um. Now this going on, this is a whole lot more of a common oc currency. And I think people want to want to ever admit that this occurs, right, Yes, I agree, I totally agree. And it's actually chuck. It's happening a lot, even in LA. There may not be the death associated, but there have people who have been caught roefying you know, clientele, bartenders
and people of bars, roofy people. It's happening often I think it's much more common in the gay community maybe than the heterosexual community. But people have to watch their drinks, and women they are notoriously you know, drink watchers. They didn't know what can happen to them. Well, that's the thing they've had to learn the hard way. You know that somebody who could slip
them something. And you also have if these guys are waiting around for people to leave late at night, I mean quite frankly, they might have already been plied en up with the alcohol that their inhibitions are down, their judgment is down. Uh, they're clearly not you know, thinking very quickly on their feet, etc. So you know, you have a much easier prey if you will. Um. So I'm and I'm breaking this down all different
ways. Here's the thing that I think is missing. If there was the discovery of some sort of communication here where, and I know that this in all likelihood very well exists, That there is a group somewhere that I'm sure is talking about techniques about how to pull these kinds of things off. I guarantee that there is, I mean every kind of horrible thing you can imagine. I mean, look, let's just get blunt and ugly about it.
You know that that the pedophiles who find each other online petterists of all sorts. We'll sit there and collaborate with one another. This is how they share and start trading, you know, a kittie poort. I mean, this is what they do. So there's usually some sort of meeting spot where people do get together. I mean just like, uh, you know, guys get together to argue about the ins and outs of the backstory of Star Wars
figures. Okay, right there, there are interests points here, and maybe you can't just you know, walk out onto the common street corner and find a friend, all right, And this is obviously the prave dark part of it. Guaranteed there is somewhere a forum or a chat room or something where there might be people commonly sharing. Look, this is what works. This is how you can get GHB. I mean, I would have no idea how to get ahold of a date rape drouke right now. I don't know.
I have never I mean I could probably get a hold of any substance I could think of, you know, if I wanted to get high, But I have no idea where I would get a hold of something like that right now, you know, but there are people that do know, and how do they know? They were told by somebody. So what I'm saying is there has to be some level of communication here, especially if let's just say you have a collaborator or even a single person working there near Ladybird Lake
and then somebody else working near Chicago. You know, at certain points these guys might be coming together somewhere, So there's to be a point of connectivity, right, agreed? No, I agreed? Gannon and Duarte. Duarte was his kind of partner in the p and the police Department in New York. They did a recent interview probably within the last four months for Chicago Chicago
bar Stool. Because everybody in Chicago's worried about these cases, they're tying it together, so they invite again and on, and Gannon said that exact same thing. He has proof. I don't have proof, but he has proof that these people are communicating on the Dark Weapon. Well, somebody's got to bring that out, you know. I guess that the reason why it hasn't been brought out is because they're really hoping to catch somebody, and maybe somebody
has this information elsewhere who's investigating. But I'm not so sure because how seriously do you think the authorities are taking this? I mean, not publicly serious. They just had a huge denial in Austin, the head of the police came out and said there's no correlation. They've done the same thing in Boston, but Boston's had a huge amount of cases. That's just a whole show
in itself, the Boston cases. But I mean, they've had many a lot of things associated with like gaming events and things going on at the TDI Center or whatever downtown Boston, but they're not publicly doing it. But I know, I know in one specific case, the guy's name was Dakota James. The mother had a meeting with somebody from the Secret Service and the FBI. This was twenty nineteen. I think, so, yeah, so they're
involved. I mean they're saying then. One of my complaints, one of my critiques of Gannon and Gilbertson is they're not giving a lot of their information out to the public, and I think that's unfortunate because their findings aren't there for people to work on and see connections or maybe somebody's familiar with dark web or these I've surmised like these kink sites or fetish sites are things where people are exchanging information like I know how to do this and get away with it,
blah blah, know how to get people into dungeons things like that. So it is kind of it's unfortunate that the information isn't being shared. Sometimes it's just like I have tons of information, but just the process of Shane, I'd have to put out a book. I have to put out a full book because I have so many cases. Well, you know, as an idea, why hasn't somebody reached out to others? I mean, I'm very sure that there have been guys that have been busted doing stuff like this.
How about going back over the information and maybe trying to, you know, drill down on these guys for resources and say, look, where did you learn how to get this stuff? I mean, Jeffrey Dahmer was getting stuff from you know, he worked for what a veterinarian at one point, right, and he was working in a pharmacy or something. He got ahold of some of this stuff and he got veterinary drugs at one point. Uh, you know that was meant to like, you know, when when you're
gonna go new to a dog or whatever you give him this stuff. I'm pretty sure that's that's fairly accurate for one of the things he did in order to get his hands on it. But he was working from the seat of his pants. Now, if one of these other guys was informed by somebody else and they could track it down, you know, and figure it out, well, how did you figure out how to get a hold of your date, rape drugs? How did you figure out how to victimize people?
Because they have busted people doing this, maybe they'll come across the guy who is not just the rapist but the murderer. I mean, catch them all. But you know what I'm saying, why why not? No percent? Though for a perfect example, you can look up a case. I got to get the name for it. But it happened in New York City at the beginning of this year. Four guys, all Latino guys, were trolling the gay bars and drugging dudes and stealing their stuff. So they were doing
so that's what they got caught for them, right. I don't know what else happened or if they were I don't even know if the purpose were part of the gay community. But that was their target. So they were working as a team to carry out these these stuffs and you know, felonies. I have to find the case. But it is interesting. So that's what people get busted for. Just like I said, like what if they were involved in murder? Just like you said, right, yeah, right,
I have to ask those questions. Well, and that's the other thing is that actually digging into one thing can lead you to another. What you bring up there with the with the four Latino guys. I remember a situation again
when I was younger in Asbury Park in New Jersey. Again, uh, there was there was a fairly well known gay spot there, and quite frankly, there were guys that were working it and robbing the gay guys, and there was a whole thing about you know, well, gee, does this guy even want to go because maybe he was not out of the closet yet, does he even want to go to the police and tell him, yeah, I got robbed right outside of the gay bar. Well what were you
doing there? Um? You know, And that went on for a while. They didn't catch those guys for a couple of years because even though they had, you know, clearly stuff had turned up, even stuff turned up in pawn shops and all this kind of stuff that was clearly you know, the it was flagged, and you know, they did the right thing and contacted the police. Hey i've got this thing that you having alert out on so on and so forth. But it was a lengthy problem trying to get
hold of these guys. Now, there's no telling if they didn't have a robbery go wrong, they killed somebody, or maybe they escalated. I mean, it's always possible. But again, where did the idea come from? Right? If they just you know, dreat this up by themselves smoking a
joint one day, okay, that's one thing. But if they were trying to like come up with let's figure out a good you know, a good crime way of to start, and they go on the internet and somebody gives them the blueprints, well you might be leading into something else here where guy's like, yeah, I know this works because I've done it, and maybe that's the guy you want, or maybe he's informed another guy who, instead of you know, just stealing watches and stuff, has decided, you know
what I'm gonna get I'm gonna get my rocks off doing this is what I'm gonna do instead of stealing this stuff, and you know, maybe I'll steal this stuff once in a while make it look different. But truthfully, you know they're going after a different target, right, you know, and you would hire the article. This is just April first, twenty twenty three. This is not an April Fools joke, says New York City police. On Saturday identified a trio of suspects in the killings of two men who were drugged
and robbed last year after visiting gay bars in the Hell's Kitchen neighborhood. Authorities posted photos of the suspects, identified as Jaquan Hamilton, Robert Demio, Jacob Barroso, John Umbuger thirty three, and Julio Ramirez twenty five, were killed in two separate incidents in spring of last year. Both were seeing leaving bars with unidentified individuals before thousands of dollars were withdrawn from their bank accounts via facial
recognition on their phones. New York City Police said there could be as many as seventeen connected cases. Now, seventeen cases, I mean, that's definitely qualifies as a serial criminal thing going on. Not necessarily all murders, but maybe Again, like I said, there are robberies at went Sideways, which happens. Okay, you didn't intend to murder somebody, but that's what ended up going on because they fought back or whatever. So there's a wide variety
of things. So again I want to get back to this though, because if you have a circumstance now in this case, you don't have guys being dumped in bodies of water and being discovered later and tortured in hell do you? I mean, as far as what we know about this right for what's come out. But see that's another thing is do we know that there are not more of these things happening because they're just simply not being reported And I
don't mean reported to the police or whatever. I do mean just you know, being reported by the media in general. See, here's where the media, local or otherwise can play a role in making people aware. Like you know, let's go back to some classic stuff. Uh, you know what happened with the Son of Sam. A panic came up with the Son of Sam. And realistically, not that many victims there. We're not talking about you know, huge numbers here. This was not Ted Bundy, but he
did shoot a few people. Now, we could say that that was connected to a lot of other stuff, and I'm not fully satisfied that it was the massive you know, the Morey Terry store to story. I'm not sure that he's one hundred percent correct, but I do believe there's something there. There's some there there right regarding the connectivity, and I could be totally wrong
about it, But these are the things that you got to consider. Is when you see a massive, successful action where people are not immediately busted, where they certainly have a mode of operation that they have developed somehow, Okay, it usually means that there were other crimes that led up to it. Like I said, Jeffrey Dahmer initially not killing and eating his victims. He was just drugging them, right and having sex with them or being sexual with
them whatever, depending on how you read the reports. Okay, but eventually it escalated. And there's another element there. If you have people working in concert with one another, though, then there's no reason for the grooming and the training process. They have them of operation, they have the techniques in hand, they know where to get the drugs. Yeah, like you said, you've got almost a perfect crime here, because again, if the victim
survives, they can't really report much even if they try. And if they don't survive, you got a body. The dead men don't speak. Of course, you now have to look for what went on. So the high levels of drugs and the torture that, let's not let that go because as common as it seems in true crime discussions, torture and murder are not necessarily always connected. Usually a murder, somebody gets right to the point and it's done. Again that case I was talking about in Neptune City, right,
I mean, they didn't torture the girl. They just smashed her in the head and she was dead. Well, they smashed her in the head and then strangled her. But anyway, it was because the smash in the head didn't work, and that was that they didn't hold her for various days trying to you know, get things out of her in this and that they got right to the point. Now, that is typical in murder cases, right, I mean, you just kind of go right for it. That's the
way it goes. So when you have the torture element here and the sexual sadism or just sexual assault element, these are kind of unique to put together. They're not as common, right, I mean, sexual assaults common, but sexual assault combined with torture and then murder not as common. So these three factors coming together and then having them dumped in bodies of water. Again,
do we know anything about the time difference? I mean, are they dumped in the body of water and discovered later after dumping or do we see that maybe they were dumped after being held for a long time. Well, that's a good question. I think there's variance, but some are clearly they have to be held for a long time because the bodies aren't in bad shape. They're not they haven't decomposed. And a perfect example of that is Dakota James out of Pittsburgh. But it's hard to say because a lot of that
information hasn't come out to the public. It's like police information. It's hard to get the police to tell you the truth about anything, at least that's what my experience is. So, but the time difference, like you can just go to your standard kind of criminologist and ask how long a body decomposes and waters and floats and comes to the surface, and it's not that long. I mean, that's dependent upon a variety of factor's son eatw whether the
water is cooled. But somebodys are clearly missing for a long period of time. They should have been seen right the time the found. And some people aren't being looked, and some of the others they're being looked in great detailed. There's an incredible case in Many Young PA about a kid by the name of Montgomery, Shane Montgomery, where he was found in three feet of water that had already been checked. They've been systematically checked by the police, like
literal, you know, underground. They found his keys, but they didn't find his body, and then his body turned up there. Look up the Shane Montgomery story. It's incredible. So there there's a lot of variants in Some of these cases are obvious, like murders. Some are not as obvious, but some are very obvious, like these are people who shouldn't. I mean, it's weird that people think that these guys are so drunk they would fall in water and fall and like not be able to get up, but
they're able to make it to the water. So like there's a lot of like stories about oh, they're just going to the water and paint going to the bathroom and then they fall in. So but they're able to get up and get you know, stand up, but they can't stand up in the battle of a body of water or swim out or anything like that. They suddenly just go unconscious or go into shock. Yes, these are like the
drowning rationale is very suspect. Well, it's very weird because look, if you have rapids, if you have a really strong you know, flow to a stream, I get it, because if you're intoxicated, it is a little difficult to breathe. If you're fully intoxicated, it is you know, you don't have your coordination necessarily together, and fighting against rapids is hard, which is why I understood when some people did get drunk and drowned in the
ocean. Again I'm from Jersey, right, it did happen, um And it would be difficult to know if somebody had been bludgeoned before they went into the water, or if they bashed their head on a jetty this kind of thing. Uh, So you would think that, you know, occasionally this this does really happen. But when you've got bodies of water where you don't have a strong current, um, this gets well, see that that is what I was going to bring up, is that you got these three locations
that you brought I mean three main locations that you mentioned so far. You have the Pennsylvania area. You have the Illinois area. Okay, you talked about you know, between Milwaukee and Chicago. It's not that big of a jump. But then we go to Texas. These are fairly well separated, uh regions. Right. The bodies of water are not connected very well.
Uh. You're not gonna find, like, you know, a stream that goes from one place to another, or in the instance of say, dumping a body in New Jersey and then it turns up on the shore and I don't know Maryland, it's a possibility that a body could get taken there and dropped off somewhere else, right, because you have the tides coming in and out. But when you have a circumstance here where they're ending up in these still bodies of water, drunkenness does not make sense to me as to how
they could have drowned really easily, at least not at that age. Again, if you're somebody who had trouble breathing to begin with, and then you drink your your respirations a little off anyway. Clearly your hand eye coordination is bad. You're gonna have a little trouble swimming. Maybe not as good. I could get that. And if you lose a fight with the ocean or roaring rapids, it makes a lot more sense. But again, Ladybird Lake,
like you said, is a pond. And my understanding about this Chicago area is that they're not exactly finding them in areas where it appears as though they've been dragged along, you know, through the stream quite a while. It just that's just where they were Or am I misreading that? No, you're right, I mean, and that's kind of the way it is. They're not in that bad of shape they're in. They're literally in ponds.
Like there was one min Chi Yang in twenty twenty two was found in a pond at the university kind of outside of Chicago, about thirty thirty miles but like literal pond. Like it's incredible they had a jewel or Dono was found just March sixteenth, twenty twenty three in a lake. And this area where Shameless was found was like in a place like a huge dock area, right, so you can just pop back in the dock it wasn't like some rapids
like you said. So these are very suspect, very suspect cases where these guys are supposedly uh, you know, incapacitated or whatever. But here's the families are very suspicious. If you ever go on record and say, hey, there's something suspicious about my family member's death. He was either healthy like there was a one kid out of Austin like twenty eighteen marchin Gutier. Is
he's a healthy like he's a total athlete. There's no way that this guy's gonna fall in water and have some path you know, panic attack and suddenly drowned. And a lot of these the family go these guys aren't even drinkers, you know, when they have two beers, you know, they're not big drinkers. So the assumption is that these guys are all like freaking out hardcore alcoholics. And then the family goes, yeah, he didn't like to drink very much, but he'd like to go out, you know those type
of people. Well, and that is the thing too. But but here's the deal is, you know, one two beers doesn't affect too many people too badly, but you had GHB in there and it doesn't take even the beer, right, you don't have even you look at some of these characters.
You look at these guys, they're out of character. They're acting strength to get kicked out of bars like that's something that may have never happened and wasn't like a constant thing where they go to a bar and get kicked out a lot of people think that that's why they have got this personality change is taken over because they're drugged. Well, that starts to make sense. So
let me ask you how it is. This has now been going on for depending on who you talk to, anywhere from one decade to three decades. Now where the discovery of these bodies, it keeps happening. These guys are disappearing. It's young men, um. You know, I'm told that most of them are fairly attractive also, and all this kind of thing. They sort of fit, but they don't fit a racial profile exactly. That's things to almost all be wipe it. It seems like now it's just across the
whole spectrum. Yeah, the original Indians, African Americans, right, the original cases and again you know Jeffrey Dahmer, I mean, typically it was it was black, guys. That's just the way it was. But uh, generally speaking, when you have a serial hunter of people for whatever purpose, they do kind of choose an ethnicity, a type, if you will. Right, But that changed, which is very strange. And now there's this new interest after all this time. Where did the new interest come from?
Exactly? What do you think? Because you know, I'd like to say it was you and the fact that you keep talking about it, and the fact that ROBERTA. Glass is talking about it, and maybe you guys finally got through to people. But I don't know. Something else seems to have happened. Tell me about it. That wasn't it? It was because all these bodies are piling them. There's bodies piling up in Austin and Chicago. You've got in Austin you have Jonathan Honey, Cliff Axtell, John Case
Clark was was found ten days ago, and Joelji Rouster. These are all this year, Jason Jason John. So all these people are going, hey, this is a pattern. It's just simple pattern recognition. Same thing in the Chicago, all these ones. Shamus Gray, the fact that he was missing for thirty three days is very suspicious. Well, Is it because it's so what you're saying, is it's because it's become more frequent. Yes,
it's frequent, and people are noticing it on social media. They have a they have now on Facebook a page called the Lady Bird Killer, you know Facebook page for with the eighty thousand followers. So that's huge. I mean, that's fairly good sized. That was nothing like what was going on when I was on Facebook researching this, Like there were smaller, smaller face killer pages and the researchers all kind of knew each other. But yeah, I
just was broad interesting to go again. Some of these other new platforms as well. There's TikTokers. There's one guy in Chicago who's covering the Chicago cases
who has a million followers. He was unknown before he started covering the Chicago death cases, right, so he's looking around and you know, so it's like a whole new host of people seeing the big picture of recognizing these things, just finally getting around to it. Okay, Yeah, there was a CIA agent on TikTok saying, yeah, I believe there's a serial killer in Chicago. I can't remember what show it was, but it was kind of like one of these new internet new shows. But she flat out said it,
and I included it. You can go to my podcast, or you can go to Rockman and watch all the recent shows I've done. I've done probably five shows on all the cases. You can watch some of the videos that I've included there, or just listen to it on William Ramsey Investigates, Right, and tell people again how they can see that first documentary because I know it was it was on Vimeo or something at one point. Yell William Ramsey, you can just go smiley Face. But you can just type that
into Vimeo. Yeah, I think I can link to you. I can send you a link. You can put it in the show notes. Yeah, send me the link. But I think if you guys, interesting interesting thing, uh, Chuck, is I can see kind of where the location of people watching my videos is from. And the number one location where people
are watching the Smiley Face video is Austin, Texas. Oh so maybe that's it, you know, locally, maybe it starts as a local thing and that's how Facebook page gets started, right, And so it's it's the newer version of what happened there in New York with the newspapers and everybody's starting to talk about it, you know, like I said with the Son of Sam deal Um, you know, all of a sudden, it was like women
were cutting their hair and all this other stuff. Yeah, caused a panic, but it was because people were actually talking about it and it was becoming this, uh, this conversation point that everybody had in New York. So what you're saying is finally people have gotten to get together, maybe locally a little bit paid attention to something that's happening near them, and then it's growing from there through social media. Maybe no doubt. Okay, I think that's
exactly what's happened. Yeah, sorry again, you know, I didn't plan any of this out with William by the way, just for you guys, it's I'm really just questioning this as I go along because I find it curious. And again I found an interesting that now not really the mainstream, but some of that, you know, like the newer sort of corporate media that's come out, Like I'm almost willing to bet the Newsmax is going to cover this at some point. Uh, you know, in those kind of channels
that are kind of emerging and jockeying for position. Now in the in the ever shifting weird media landscape out there. I'm very sure that some of them are gonna I think they did it. They did a local spot. There was a local spot on like Talk to It radio in Austin. Also info Wars, which is located in Austin, had a segment on the recent desks in Austin. So people are covering it. I don't know if they've seen the big wider picture, but they're definitely white, I mean, very interested
in Chicago and Austin. But there's been other cases. Houston had three cases in the last twelve months. Minneapolis, Iowa City had a guy found a week ago, Christian Martinez. There's a kid still missing in Pittsburgh, Brandon Phipford Davis. There's like a weird tie in with the uh Co burger. You remember that guy who killed three people in Moscow, Ida, Oh yeah, that guy right there was a there was a guy found like a smoty
face killing type murder, found literally a rocks throw from that house. His name was Hudson Lindau. Really really yeah. See that's a whole weird case in and of itself. You know, look, there has to be a stalking element here. See that's another of the thing is that people are under this impression that stalkers are easily caught now because everything's you know, electronic,
and oh well they know where your phone is. But you know people that are well aware of that maybe or thinking around and outside of the box here, you know, not necessarily. Can you see burgers driving habits on the night of those murders. He took the most roundabout way like an hour home. He could have driven like ten miles. He was trying. He was stalking or cruising or doing something. He was just covering territory. Very strange
like, very thought out like he was. He was I'm surprised that that the whole crime went down, but like people think he's involved in other stuff. He might have been involved in the Hudson lind Down person death. Well. But see there it is is, Look, if they don't mind these guys, if they don't, you know, interrogate them, and I mean they're not going to do it, you know in the in the old school,
you know, crazy good cop bad cops sort of way. But I mean, quite honestly, if they don't you utilize some these guys as resources. Somebody who clearly planned things out and did this and also had some other strange behaviors. I mean, I'm almost willing to bet that. Yeah, the ideas, they're all supposed to be loaners and all this, but at some point there was connectivity there, right, at some point somebody informed this
guy and you know, he might have been self taught that one. But I'm telling you there's got to be some element here that and I don't know how to articulate it, but there's got to be a point of connection. If you have people that are acting in concert with one another, which you described it as a series of cells, you know what leads you to believe that exactly? Like, how would you Okay, I'm just gonna again play
the skeptic, I don't believe you. William Ramsey explained to me why it is you believe this would be cells as opposed to I don't know a couple of independent operators who are just say it's three guys. We had three locations earlier. Three guys are together in a chat room. Maybe it's just their
little click and they've decided to do this together. Why are you saying three or because it's happening independently, so different geographical cosmopolitan areas are it's happening, So the overlap would be strange for somebody to be operating in Austin and Chicago. And I think that these murders are not caused by one person. I think it has to be at least at two or three. And the reason I say that is because a lot of these other killers worked with other people.
If you look at some of these other craft or there's another guy either from the Midwest, people who've researched those guys says they couldn't have done it alone. They were handling bodies. There's body handling and things like that. So I think there's interesting if you look at some of these weird groups.
I've looked into this guy out of Michigan, his name was Katunski. He had this kind of weird werewolf group online where they would, you know, kind of almost like the Pizza Gate stuff, where they had inside inside statements like yeah, we go out at night, we're wolves. Yeah, hill at the moon, you know, hey we go hunting, but watch out
for us. So I think that those kinds of groups do exist. And so I think that that for those like you said, there's some kind of place online for those people with this type of interest, and if you look. I mean I included this show Kink in my first documentary. What that was was like a hardcore BDSM place, but people would come in from all over the world to stream these things and pay large sums of money. So maybe something like that's going on. And so so anyway, to go back
to your point, I do think it's different cells. Different people have some form of communication with the dark web and may even be doing like you said, those pedophiles are sharing pictures of kitty porn. Maybe these guys are sharing their films. Yeah, I mean, because that's still a business. By the way, is you know they I know, nobody ever talks about it
at all anymore, but snuff films are still a thing. Um, you know, I know, we all know the stories from the seventies and eighties and stuff about you know, you get taken in a place in a you know, in a van with no windows and and all that, and that's how you can get invited. I mean, it's a common urban discussion. Not saying it's a myth, but I am saying that there were a lot of people that talk about it that just have heard it, second, third,
fourth hand. Um, one of the statements you mentioned the Son of Sam, they said that one of the Son of Sam killings was recorded, right, and more than one person has brought that up. Then maybe there's a film of some of that stuff. And that's another weird thing is that quite often there there is an accomplice mentioned. I'll give you the most famous one is that a lot of people think that Dennis Rader did not act alone, right, the BTK killer. I'm sure you've heard that, right,
I have not heard that. Oh, okay, well, but it's kind of like the same thing, right, there were four people, so how did you subjugate that whole family? Right? Yeah, Well, but there's always a lot of odd things like this where it's like, hey, there may have been an accomplice, And it's funny that a lot of the accomplices
are never caught. They get the main guy and that's that. And then of course you have the weird, the weird world of oh Henry Lee Lucas right who you know, Hodest too, honest tool and all that I mean, And clearly they collaborated on some stuff. Now did he exaggerate and add to it, I think so. But did he actually do a bunch of things? Yeah, we know he did. Um but but anyway, what I'm saying is that I'm not saying that these guys are all reliable by the
way when captured as far as their information goes. But some of them might be, uh and they might offer some information and somebody might be able to sift through that and come up with you know, there could be ultimately a whole secret network somewhere. Again, the dark web is the easiest place to mention, but there's other ways, you know. Uh So anyways, um but but that's the time. But yeah, I think that there's groups of people. And one of the interesting case cases is this one Joey, because
he died when the Arnold Schwarzenegger Classic came into town. So it's the biggest body building exposition in the world. So you have all these people from all over the world come in and he just suspiciously disappears. And these are all dudes on roids and they're supposed to be like a supposedly a kind of gay element to the body building yea, So I mean it makes sense for I mean, you think of the perfect crime is to kind of go to a
place nobody knows, you commit the crime and leave. Well, there's that, and then there's also a guy who's working locally who says to himself, look, there's gonna be a lot of strangers around it. It'll be impossible for them to track things down, so somebody could use it as a cover. I was just going to mention that thing about Boston, which, by the way, it seems to be increasingly a nexus point of all sorts of bizarre and murderous activity. And I don't mean organized crime or you know,
typical grudge type stuff or gang killings. I mean there's something very weird going on. And now they're going to have a Satanist convention there too. I just read you saw that, right, you know. And look, if you were to go ahead and commit a couple of murders and be a little sloppy about it during the Satanist convention, you'll have people running in eighty different directions, you know, whether you came into town for it or you live
there already. So there's that in play as well. Has there been any correlation about different events coming in because look, Austin and Chicago are two great places for people to come in from out of town. You know what what about that beca one of the recent victims was at a bachelor party, and so there's been other deaths kind of one one arguably was a drug relate to death, but bachelor parties but Austin. Yeah, it's a place where people
to go party. And it is interesting that these are kind of like blue urban areas where these kind of things are happening too, which this is a strange correlation, but you know, there's always like there's been other kids. One was that like a model you win in Chicago left his hotel disappeared. Another guy's business trip in Boston it's found under the pier like two months later. Just really crazy stuff. So it may not even just be the people
are coming from out of town. The murderers are coming out of from out of town as well. Or yeah, it could be a little bit of column A, a little bit of Colin b though, because I mean, it's just very strange. And the other odd thing to mention here is that a consistency among the victims appears to be. Now, look, a lot of families, especially after somebody dies, you know, they elevate their morality, all of a sudden, they become a saint, you know what I
mean. And I'm not saying that all these families are doing that, not at all. I'm not trying to smear anybody. But what I am saying is that consistently, though I don't see a lot of well, you know, this guy was out there risk taking and being involved with a lot of partying, Like these are not like known party animals that seem to be the victims unless I'm misreading it or it doesn't seem like that, like if there's a lot of videos online of the family members telling stories like they're not big
drinkers, they are athletes, you know. So it's the cut across, isn't. It's not like it's the hard drinking, partying frat type all the time. It did more most recently, maybe originally, but like there's almost no frat member like that kind of thing happening now. It's almost like middle aged kind of you know, upwardly mobile yuppie types. It's weird. No, it is very weird, and if it's evolving, then you know,
it could be something that's growing. That's another thing too, is that you know, once you get a successful little bit of cult activity going on where you have a high control group. You mentioned that guy who's Awarewolf. Now I know there's a couple of groups like that out there, and a couple of these like you know, vampire clubs of sorts, right, yes,
where they have you know, a high exalted one at the top. And it's on one level it's kind of a goofy, you know, cosplay sort of thing, but on another level it gets a little more serious and maybe there's an inner circle and all this kind of stuff goes on too. So there's a lot to consider here as far as the possibility. So I think it makes it very very hard to do your normal track and trace, right,
Okay, So who did the victim know? Because usually it's somebody that knows them that gets ahold of them like this, And if it's a crime of opportunity, what was the point of opportunity? Maybe there's common links and it seems like it's very difficult to pin down based on those kind of you know, thought processes when it comes to investigation, because it varies a little, but what is consistent is it's this sort of you know, late at
night. It's not broad daylight stuff, And it's definitely, you know, somehow somebody being lured away from a public place and then they disappear. And generally speaking its younger men, although there have been some other victims. Maybe they're in the mix as well. That are women, right right, Yes, there's a few women out there that this has happened to, found in the ditches and stuff like that. Yeah, not many of them, right.
Well, even in the case of the ditches though, does it appear as though the ditches were sort of on the way to a body of water? Is it that kind of thing or a little bit? I mean, I was talking about this guy, Hudson Lindslough. He was literally found in a creek like like I would have stepped like, yeah, it's not even a foot deep. So so everyone's different. Some are found in very strange places, ponds on golf courses, weird bodies of water like, and then
some are found in you know, Lake Michigan harbors. It's all a mix.
But so here's the thing. Outside of going in taking a look at William Ramsey investigates, Okay, outside of doing that, if somebody is interested in looking at this case or starting with your documentary on Vimeo, And yeah, do send me all the links you want, because I want to provide them to the listener and let them go ahead and do their own exploration after they've listened to this conversation, right, you know, where would you suggest
they go ahead and look to start seeing the kind of thing that you're seeing here? And it is perhaps something that could be done by the public if people got together. You don't know which rock you might kick over, because you might have access to something that somebody else doesn't, or you might have an idea somebody else doesn't. So how would you suggest somebody approaches this if it's a brand new topic to them. Yeah, they can look at my
two documentaries. I have the one Spontiface Killers, who is abducting, torturing, murdering colleges men in the US and UK, And then I have a second one called Spontiface Killers The Global Slaughter Continues. You can see that I've done one hundred and twenty case studies of the individual cases, so you can follow along and see what the families say and see how they progress. That'll
give you a broad overview. I have conclusions on there. You can listen to all my shows on the Smiley Face Killers, on William Ramsey Investigates, my podcasts I have, like you've probably done thirty shows. You can check out Jim Smith probably one of the best public investigators at his twitter feed which is at Smiley Faced Cult, still posting all the stuff. He was the original kind of researcher and researcher for my first documentary, so he's been at
it for a long time. He knows a lot of these cases more than I do. But that would be a good start. And I think you can just kind of look through YouTube and type in what these people think Chicago serial killer and Ladybird Lake Killer or the Rainy Street Rip or whatever they're calling it now, and just look on YouTube because all these independent researchers have cropped
up within the last two or three months. So a lot of people that I've never seen before kind of researching these types of cases, are are interested now right now look for a final pass it all this. I just uh and and again I want you to check out. Just enter into a search engine, whatever one you use, William Ramsey Investigates. You'll certainly come across William Ramsey and and yeah, dig into this. I mean, you do a lot of other stuff too, so I want people to look at all
your work. But focusing on this right now. One word that I did purposely avoid until you just brought it up, okay, which is cult. I know it was part of the Twitter handle of Bill Smith, right, you know, Jim Smith. Sorry sorry, common name, common name, Um, sorry about that, but anyway, Jim Smith, And yeah, I would definitely check that out as well. But cults, What would be the thing that would indicate to you that this could be a cult like activity?
Now, initially just my own thoughts. When you're talking about dumping bodies into a body of water, there is a ritualistic aspect that could be here, and torture could be ritualized as well. But what are the indicators to give you an idea or they give some people the idea Because I've seen this discussed by others that there may indeed be some sort of discernible cults in play here, right, And I think there might be like a group of people
who were practitioners of some occultism of any different stripe. And there were those people in Chicago that were called the Ripper Crew, and they preyed upon women. It did horrible, unspeakable things. But the likelihood that these guys may have some kind of ideological outlook could be real. And I, you know, I've talked about possible ties with other groups and things like that, but I go into it and I actually you know, investigate that in my podcast.
But it could be and that may be the reason why that the government isn't funny. It is because they're not looking for some kind of cult behavior that's involved in this kind of predation. Well, my first instincts when I see the authorities not into rested in following up on something is one of two
things. Either they they do not have the aptitude to approach it, they don't know what they're looking at. Or my what really usually comes up first is maybe there's somebody that is among the protected classes, if you will, one way or another. Either they're a rich person in the community, or there's somebody who's important politically or something like that who is somehow directly involved or easily tied to it. Like I'm very sure that uh, you know,
what was it. Rosalind Carter was never thrilled at the fact that she was photographed with you know, he's last four victims were thrown in rivers in Chicago, and there was what the final tie I was going to bring up is that, you know, when you got an area like that, and of course he was dumping people, not just in his house there, but it's it's last few. They were dumped in bodies of water, and I mean gay she made a lot of claims and was saying that he wasn't the only
one involved. I don't know that that wasn't just some sort of strategy on his part. But if it wasn't, if there was even a grain of truth to that, you know, you could be looking at something that's been operating for possibly fifty years here, if that's connected to this, And that's a possibility even too. We don't know for sure, do we. I wouldn't know. I really wouldn't know. I mean, it just seems like these types of crimes were not happening in the seventies and eighties with the same
consistency that they are now. So yeah, I would hope that it hasn't gone back that far, but people haven't found a lot of those cases in the seventies and eighties. It really was something that started in mid nineties. Very strange, but it's happening. It's white hot now Chicago, Austin, p safe. Be careful, don't get your drink spiked. Stay together. Men have to stay together too. You should act like you're going into the back and you go out at night. In some of these cities, it's
like stick together, like you're part of a platoon in Vietnam. Like everybody gets out alive, Like I'm that serious, Like don't let people walk out alone. Make sure everybody gets in the car together. And your uber driver is probably a danger too. So yeah, really, things that are really sketchy in the States right now. So be careful. Well, there's another element too. Just last thing I want to bring up is that if somebody wanted to follow up on this and they were very serious about it. Modes
of transportation are often a key to uncovering things in an investigation. I mean, how many times do we have to hear about, Yeah, we wouldn't have busted this guy if it wasn't for a traffic stop or some ridiculous thing, right, you know, the plate was out of order, this or that. Now, in modern times here and especially in an urban area or a more metropolitan area. Let's say there is certainly a lot more use of stuff like yeah, Uber and whatnot, so there could easily be something trackable
traceable there. I mean, you know today, would would would would you know the guys that were used in taxicabs years ago? Okay that was a little more anonymous, but I mean your your uber driver knows where they brought you to and from. Uh. They almost always have some sort of photographic proof of who you are. You know who they are. There is something trackable and traceable there. How come that's not been utilized. Has anybody looked
into as did these guys use Uber? You know, because somebody's a good question, you know. I think that there's not a lot of stuff. One of the things that I have found in a lot of these cases there's a reason why their cell phones are found where they're abducting. I think it's intentional because the perpetrators do not want to have any track and trace with the phone, So the phone's either found broken or sitting there with the belongings and
things like that. So there has been one case that I can think of offhand in Boston. His name is Keller her and they followed his phone because he was going north from ted I Center or whatever. He was going north over the Charles River and then his phone picked him up going south, which was away from his house, and then he was later found in the Charles River. But that phone gave away some information that he was not going the way he wanted to go when he left. He wasn't drunk too, he
was walking just fine. So but you information is very important. But like I said, some of these police, you don't know what's coming out. You don't know how serious they're taking as And if they say it's just an accidental drowning, it's done so after bought books and you move on. So yeah, there you go. I mean, you know, when they say they've got a suicide on their hands, there's no reason to look for a
murderer, go, you know, very simple. That's an interesting correlation though, I mean, are we finding that the cell phones are almost always abandoned at the point of abduction? Is that is that a common seems like it. There's I could probably go back and look through all my notes and find twenty of them with their cell phones have been found, So it is there is some kind of weird correlation between that or they're in the water. So
I mean that makes sense too, right, destroy the evidence? Yeah, well, either way, it makes it a whole hell of a lot harder to find, and especially if it's been turned off. There you go, you got a dead bone in the water. Not exactly the easiest thing to go. I mean, you don't believe me. Drop it into lake somewhere and see if you can find it. You know that that's just difficult in
and of itself. But okay, so there you have it. And again William Ramsey investigates, and I urge you guys to go ahead and follow up for yourselves on this. Are there any one last thing? Is there any other like I know there were some Facebook groups there you mentioned, but is there any centralized location for this yet or not? To my knowledge, I think that there's a lot of things going on TikTok. I'm not on TikTok, but you can probably find the older Smiley Face research groups on Facebook.
I haven't been on there, but they were around five, you know, seven years ago, so I assume they're still there. And you can go through and look at all that all that knowledge that's been a crude there's quite a bit or scroll through Jim Smith. There you go, So look at Jim Smith's up and obviously William Ramsey Investigates. You're available on most podcatchers, right, I mean most of the things out there everywhere. Yeah, pretty much, spot on Spotify. I'm hosted by Spotify. Now, so oh
you're hosted by Spotify. Okay, that's okay, great, I almost did that. But anyway, long story. Hey, look, it might be a good thing for me to do, but then again, I want you guys to follow up. Go ahead and check them out. Anywhere where podcasts are you pretty much find William Ramsey and you're still on YouTube. You're still allowed there, right, No, I got banned. Oh you got banned.
I'm sorry. So I'm on all My stuff's on Rock Rock under William Ramsey Rock then yeah, my third channel, so I think i'm my I've lost three channels to uh to government censorship. Yeah, okay, so rock then they can see you on video and you're stuff are still up on Vimeo, right, Yes, sir, there you go, William Ramsey Investigates.
And I thank you for taking the time tonight. I know it took you a little over time, but I think people should get in on this while it's resurging, because this may be a time when who knows, something might break in the case, and you never know. You might have at your fingertips, in your locale, you might have the information you might come across
to yourself. You the listener, not you, William, but anyway, no matter who you are, where you are, when you are, remember I'm merely o'celly and all of you, or indeed the effect William Ramsey investigates. Find him wherever you find this stuff. Wall Street, Greindow dot dot, gold, silver, the stock market, Wall Street, Greindow dot dot. Perhaps you're invested deeply, perhaps you're not in deep enough. Maybe you're thinking about getting started. Wall Street, Windows dot com, doos dot com.
Michael Swanson, the brilliant author of the War State, understood these trends professionally for many years, and now he gives you the benefit of his knowledge. Wall Street, Street, Indo dot dot Go there, now go there, now go there now can use expressed my caller schoolhos there anyone else who happens to get on the air Jolly dot com. He's not necessarily replying. He views at Ochelly dot com or jolly and we are not responsible for getting
stupidity which might ensue. Thank you, James Formancardo Report dot com. And you're listening to the Ochelly affect at oceelly dot com. Revelation through conversation Looper Holocaust. You know what your runium is right? Called nuclear weapons and other things like lots of uranium is right? Bad things things have done with uranium, including some bad things nuclear holocaust. What duolium is right, luclear holocaust,
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