The Ochelli Effect 4-11-2025 Open Mic Friday Night with B Pete

Get ready.

Hey, hey, it's the eleventh day of April.

I kind of wish it was May. I would have made it rhyme.

But anyway, Friar's day as it is, and time for the open mic live Friday night.

Now.

I took extra time getting ready because I had a little software difficulty and had to reload stuff and all that, and a couple of people listen to me on the phone lines, because tonight.

Is the night for that.

Please be a part of this tonight show us what you got, talk to us about whatever you want, and the deal is we'll just have to juggle it somehow or other Friday nights. And here's the way you can join us, at least for now until they cancel Skype and I've got to rearrange how I'm gonna do my calling system and everything over the next couple of weeks, but all the way up to May fifth, for sure. This will be the number three one nine five two seven five zero one six. That's three one nine five

But what's going on? Man?

Before we jump right to a couple of callers, we got on the line already.

What's on your mind? First?

Right off the bat, Well, you know, this week's been chaos and the news with everything coming out of DC.

You know, we're gonna put a tariff here. We're gonna say, oh, I'm gonna wait on this tariff, but no, we're gonna put that.

One in place.

Well, just a few headlines here that I've got right off the bat, dropping oil prices as a boost to the US economy, March defson unexpectedly tumbles to a five year low.

I guess so if they're cutting everything, Trump's tariff pauses focus is trade war on China.

Markets bounce, and the US inflation rate falls to two point four percent in March, lower than expected.

But there's one other headline that really caught my attention.

Breaking Director of National Intelligence Tulsi Gabbard confirmed photo machines that been hacked to manipulate America's elections.

So maybe we'll be hearing something about this.

Yeah, okay, So well.

I'm off of some other issue that's you know, they want to shove to the back.

But sure, sure, well you know, Tulsi Gabbart, I know you.

You're always on the alert for her headlines, and you're also look, I gotta be honest, I know that your news feed preferences are definitely going to be biased in one direction, because that's.

Not the way the headlines look if you go to.

The objective sites or the left wing media, that's for sure. But the reality of the circumstance, I see it as a big collusion by the way, between the left and the right hand shaking each other and maybe shaking each other a little too rapidly, a little too often. What does that sound like to you? But hey, it's not about my point of view tonight, it's about everybody Else's

Ye.

The JFK and MLK documents will be released in days RFK.

But yeah, exactly. But here's the thing in the email chain that I'm part of, because there's a weird little there's a couple of different email chains I'm part of. Some of them drive me nuts, some of them are informative, but one of them about you know, among many JFK

On JFK.

Considering that we already have the Special Unit Senator stuff and the FBI stuff regarding RFK. Both of those things have already been made public. And the investigative agency was the LAPD, right, it was the ramparts section that one guy, the head of it, you know, the head of the investigation Special Unit Senator put out a book by the same name, of course, but also that stuff's already public knowledge.

What do the FEDS have on RFK?

A are they just going to create a document collection for Bobby Kennedy Senior here and dump that of the National Archives, which one is happening here? Because legitimately, what do the FEDS have to say about this? Unless there's some new stuff we don't actually know, But legitimately that's a fair question, right, What the hell would the Fed I have to say about RFK?

What do you think?

I don't know? It is an interesting question, but it sure is. I mean, there's no telling what's going to come out.

You know, we've been everybody's been hoping that some smoking gun's going to come out for JFK, but I don't see it happening the RFK. There could be something new, Maybe there's some reports on a little bit of investigating that they did and they found out that things don't add up.

Who knows, We'll just have to wait and see. Of course, we never know. It's either been shredded or redacted. And if they removed the redactions, then you know, what have we got left?

What really do we have left that they're going to provide us that wasn't destroyed years ago?

Well, we already know via Scott Yur that they either lost or destroyed photographs. We already know that they destroyed a bunch of other materials, physical materials. They didn't preserve it like they did allegedly regarding JFK, because they got rid of those ceiling panels, photographs, eyewitness statements, and a bunch of other things they said were destroyed because what the hell we convicted sir hand. That's the end of

Spot I've heard of.

That was they were going after a shift because he bought a house in Maryland, was claiming a residency for both to get certain loans.

But you can't both and run.

If he claims in Maryland, he can't run for a seat in California.

So right, that's right.

And she turned around and got a exemption in Texas even though she claims to live in Hawaii, and she cast a vote in Hawaii, So the Feds have a right to ask which one is your actual residence because and also Hawaii the state law requires that you maintain your residence and your tax exemptions there in order to vote there, because you're voting on things that pertain to Hawaii, you know, outside of the presidential part of the ballot.

It'll all get squashed. That'll be that.

I don't know what's going to happen Adam shiff though, because there are vendettas happening anyway.

I don't think it's just stuff with the Trump administration.

There's a whole lot of crap on the other side that's been going on for so many years as being called.

I don't know that you can end the caution.

Yeah, that's DC's modus operanda on everything.

Throw it in the back. You know, it's both sides.

I've told so many people you're not the clean house to you actually clean house.

No, I know.

It's the political Look, it's the political power dynamic, whether it's your local sheriff, which, by the way, somebody slid me a story about a new Jersey Let me see here.

Let me be specific about this. What is he again?

Uh?

Let's see police chief.

Sorry, a Jersey police chief accused of defecating on a floor to harassed coworkers. Interesting story, totally believable, by the way, out of Bergen County, I think that's where it is. But many counties in Jersey would that be believable. Let's see photograph north Bergen Police Department.

Chief.

Yeah, Robert Farley. But look enough out of us. Let's get to the callers in the order they appeared.

Are you ready for that?

Sure?

Okay, let's see who we got first. But it looks like we got Danny from California first. And that's you Danny, right, Yes it is, Yes, sir, listen. I wanted to thank you for an envelope that I received from you this week, and your bet is paid and all.

That good stuff.

I'll keep the rest of the contents of that envelope to myself, but uh, it is uh, it's very interesting, and thank you, and I hope you're doing well.

Man.

California is a weird place to be. And like I said, enough out of me, what's on your mind?

I guess that weird place is normal for myself. So I can't speak as far as weird or normal or anything like that.

But well, you don't live near You don't live near LA, do you.

No? I live in I live in northern California. The right son still has a house in La has a house. They have a very nice house and in Woodham Hills that my daughter in lawed and they're wise. They let it out for positive cash flow, gotcha. And I remember Zilloy in it a few years ago, and I told them, you're wise just to hold on to that piece of property. It's you accumulate real estate, like Will Rogers says, you don't, you don't sell real estate. So well, there you have it.

Much yeah, so much. Yeah.

And it's great because in a time period where we have a real estate hustler in the White House, who is sending another real estate hustler to go ahead and be the envoy for everything, including the Russian situation. Now Whitkoff is his envoy for everything. Now, you would think that California would be a more friendly place because a

Man?

Well, well, I was just kind of looking at today's April eleven. So you know, I'm not into numerology, but it's kind of just some synchronicity. I mean, April first is April Fool's Day, and you go April eleven, that's one one April second. I'm about ready to rename that think stupid Day. You know, some people are talking about liberation, but I think we've come full circle in this country. I mean, I'm looking at you know, Dickens wrote a

But I'm tired of it all. And to tell you the truth, there's rhyme and reason to it. I just don't know what it is at this point.

Uh.

The guy from Shark Tank that they call mister Wonderful seems to think it's a great idea.

Uh.

In all that, and if you tune into Fox News and everything, look, sey morons, we made the stock market bounce back up again. Everything's all good. When meanwhile, I didn't care about that to begin with. I know some of you have four oh one case, but you know people were crying about that. My four oh one is now a one oh one, k et cetera. But you know this is just the way things are done. The boom and the bust and the people that are gonna make money when things are crashing is actually more people

He's over here right now. He made two and a half billion dollars. Isn't it great?

You know Trump in the White House. I thought it was hilarious and I just got to laugh at a lot of this stuff at this point, man, look, what are you gonna do. There's gonna be the back and forth no matter what, and maybe we will accomplish something. April is loaded with a ton of things.

You know, there's a.

Grand Theft Nation Day, which is tax Day on the fifteenth. Right, you got Hitler's birthday here in April. You got my birthday on the seventh. You got April Fool's Day, which they tried to chang the JFK hearings from April Fool's Day to April second, but due to scheduling conflicts, they couldn't do it. Representative Luna said, but it is what it is, and you know it's just a wild time man. Look,

Normally i'd come on, I'd say finally spent Chet has come back, and I'd say, ladies and General spank Cannis entered the building. Oh, i'd say, acknowledge me. But gimmicks aside today, I haven't been on in a while. I just got to tell you I had a rude awakening. And now I know that government's great, really, and everything has been going on, it's great. I mean, look at that. We're got some terrors going on. We're gonna raise it

Uh.

You know, by the way, if you're against the genocide, you're anti Semitic. Don't forget that. Oh and we're and we're gonna just you know, put tariffs on everybody, and we're gonna do all this great stuff. It's such good stuff is happening. I'm so happy, it's so proud to be an American.

Well, the court, Hey, look the courts are agreeing. Okay, well you're about ten days late. But look the courts are agreeing. They're turning around and saying, you know what, this this kid who didn't actually commit a crime due to the Rubio declaration or whatever a memo where he said, this guy's a supporter of AMAS. Therefore we want to eject him from the country, and we disqualified as green card even though he's married to a pregnant lady. Here,

So you know, what do you what do you do at this point? Yeah? Good, I don't know.

I think a lot of people are turning because this is what they voted for, you know, and all the censorship by the way, you know, like you were just whoops, where did he go?

Wait a minute, Wait a minute, Wait a minute, what happened here?

Dalized?

Oh there you are?

What did you know?

You got muted? You got muted?

All right, you got muted for a second there. I don't know why suddenly you were muted. Uh you said, you don't know what?

Sorry about that?

Go ahead, go ahead, you're back.

No, I'm just saying that, you know, they had nothing on that guy. They have nothing on that guy. He didn't vandalize all that crazy stuff that Marco Rubio was talking about. Don't you love all these neocons? You know, you know, it just goes right back to what I said. You know, I've spent over the last ten years talking about Zionism and the central bankers, the guys at the very top, and the Greater Israel project and connecting the dots.

You've never heard this out of me, dude, No, I never was closed, would you?

And you've never heard this out of you?

Well, here's the weird thing to me is that I used to hear this out of guys who would scream and yell at me that I was some kind of you know, spineless scumbag because I wasn't yelling about Israel constantly.

And I said, look, it's not my bag.

I don't see as many of these dots connecting as you guys do.

I disagree with you, that's all.

And I see a lot of what you guys are saying, but I don't see it all right.

And I used to say that, and people.

Would really try to take me, you know, to task verbally in comments, all kinds of things.

But here's the funny part.

Right, there's a guy, literally the only guy I know in Georgia, you know, face to face that will come and talk to me about JFK stuff. Is absolutely obsessed with the idea that JFK was killed by the Masad. It's all the Jewish mafia, all this stuff. And I'm like, dude, you don't have evidence to back that up. But he swears he does, and he goes into all kinds of weird rabbit hole about it that don't actually connect to it, you know, tells me about how they didn't have nukes.

And two, I'm no, no, no, I know, I mean, you have evidence, but what I have evidence on now is a greater Israel project. I mean, look what's going on.

No, no, no, But now we go wait wait, wait, wait, let me get to let me get to something so.

I can ask you the big question, please, because I got a big question for you. So now, a lot of those people that used to yell that stuff and me, not that guy, because he's obsessed with he wants people to know that he's solved the Kennedy assassination, that Jim Garrison was in on the cover up and everything else.

Move those people.

And I don't know how it is. I mean, b Pete, I know that you're a pro Israel guy, but the thing.

Is if they let's clay something, I'm not pro Israel or not. Okay, I don't believe the run the world like these other wing nuts out here.

I'm sorry, I.

Got you you, Okay, I find you to be pro Israel because you seem to think that you know that they have a right to do all the things they're doing.

It seems like mostly am I wrong about that?

Or no, what are they doing? They don't have a right to do?

Okay, genocide?

Okay, so you do understand you have.

Yeah, so you don't think you don't think you have a pro Israel orientation, then no.

Let's take this a step at a time.

Well, I don't want to. I just wanted to find out. If you don't think you're pro Israel, I apologize and I'll take that back. But it seems to me like that's where you are.

Sorry, it's a.

Dress Ken's statement. He just said genocide.

Okay, there's not a genocide going on in Gaza.

If there were, there wouldn't.

Be Pedestinians in Gaza in the middle of the war.

What take their hospitals there? There's there there there, schools blocking age, starving children. I mean, I don't know if that's I don't. I don't know what your definition of genocide is, but I think Webster would cover what I'm talking about pretty easily.

You wait, and you brought up examples hospitals.

Okay, coloss is running a headquarters underneath the main hospital in the northern section of Gossa.

You don't think that makes it a tall.

Every single one of them, every single one of those hospitals has a boss of them. But guess what, there's no evidence of it. So with you, dude, I'm kind of disgusted the fact that you're going to argue this, meet with with this in the first place.

Position You don't want to debate your position, you want to.

Make debated it. It's not even debatable. I mean, what part do you want to how about the drinking fifteen ambulance workers that just got you know, bulldozed and mass graves and caught and ride about and they got caught line the idea of that just happened. I mean, I know what part of genocide you don't understand.

Okay, See, here's the thing. I don't want to go there any debate.

I love you, brother, and everything else we're going to agree to disagree.

This debate is going to go nowhere. That's that's why. Yeah, go ahead, just be beaten.

You make statements that are falsehoods, they have to be debated, and you don't want to debate them. Simple, that's what it comes down to. You don't want to debate it. Now if you want to set up a knife, what they need.

To debate about genocide? I mean, do you want to look up the definition and start seeing with what's been going on? I mean, do we have to go step by step?

See you have to.

Hold your hand. I mean, like, what's going on here? What do you want?

All right, look, one of you, I'd like one of this is not genocide.

I'd really love one of you to just not and not continue on this path because it's going to go nowhere.

But if you want to argue about it, go ahead.

No.

I mean, I was just trying to make my point about what's going on here, and it's like, I'm not in all these conspiracy theories. Let me tell you something. If the roles were reversed in the Stenians were doing this to the Israeli people, I would be one hundred percent for this Raeli people. I'm against genocide. I'm a human rights activist. I've been one for years, boots on the ground, I'm the radio, several radio shows, including this. Let me ask one question.

A Moss justified in their attack on October seventh.

They weren't justified because civilians were involved. If civilians weren't involved and it was completely military, they'd absolutely be justified because and they are, by by the way, by the international law to be justified to go, you know, rise up against oppression. You're allowed to rise up. And if they're getting oppressed and your lands invaded, you get to fight back. It's that's self defense.

Their land wasn't invaded. Nobody invaded Gasa.

In fact, they gave Israel pulled out of Gaza and left them Gaza.

They can't leave. They don't have the rights to vote, They can't do everything down to their calorie like thread in by Israel. They are in apartheid state or what are you talking about?

Wait a minute, who took away their right to vote?

Amas?

Amas is the group that they voted in. Israel doesn't have anything to do with that. Gaza was self governed.

Israel doesn't let them leave. Israel doesn't give them any rights whatsoever. They control the water, they control the electricity, but they control the aide that goes in there. They control everything.

Are you talking about?

Why doesn't Egypt let them leave?

Because Egypt doesn't want to allow them into their country.

The Egypt doesn't want them. It's not Egypt's business.

This is Palestinian lands.

If it's not Egypt's business, why is it Israel's business? They both have a border on Gaza. Palestinians can leave and when you consider that, a lot of them, you can leave where you have the Muslim good in Egypt.

So what is it that?

Why is it Israel has to adis are not only Muslim, they're Christian, Jewish, They're all kinds of different things.

Israel to a level that you don't hold Egypt to. Why and they're fellow Buslims.

Why because Egypt's not going in and invading their land and kicking them off in the West Bank and in Gaza. Egypt's not the one that rough about ten years sure bombed on Gaza and destroyed it more than Hiroshima was.

That's why of the.

Country of Jordan gave the West Bank to Israel.

So what is it?

It's iron country?

Did not give the Spress Bank.

It was Palestine. No, George is another country.

That bail is brought out by colonialism. You don't know what's going on, VP, I'm sorry.

Exactly what's going on.

And if you want to debate facts, I'll take you on any time and let's rock.

Okay, you guys can arrange if you guys want to agree to a date to come on and have a debate. Here's the problem though, one if you're gonna have to take turns and you're gonna have to accept somebody controlling the mute button because you're yelling over each other.

I don't want to yell. Yeah, I got you.

You're yelling over You're just yelling over each other. And that's all that people are hearing right now. I know both of you are trying to make a point, but believe it or not, be Pete, the stuff you're saying would kind of qualify in my mind as yeah, you're pro Israel, that's all. Okay, that's the only thing I was trying to say. And sorry, if you don't think that's right.

Okay, you can take that position on my position. If you wish I'm not pro Israel. What I'm against is all of this, this animist that gets thrown towards is Neil. Let's start with the comment, yeah, the twos run everything. That's basically where Ken started. Well there's a big rabbit hole and there's a big cabal, and we're all tied.

I said, well, true, okay, but but here's the thing that's a point of view, and if you guys want to have a debate about that, then you know, we could just do that one night if you want. But like I said, we'd have to have you take turns like here, here's your five minutes, here's your five minutes, and just go over and back and forth. Fine, state your cases, but if you're going to just yell at each other, it becomes very difficult to listen to, to be honest with you, I.

Mean, I don't I mean suck. I mean, I don't know how many times I have to say this, And I've said it on multiple shows everywhere else anywhere anybody has known me for over a decade. We'll tell you my views are not against Jewish, it's not anti Semi. It's against Zionism. It's against debating the land and taking it.

But when when somebody who is that's what I am. I get listen, I get what what's that? Bepet you're trying to say something?

No, just sorry, I'm laughing. Okay, scientism, same thing.

Well it's actually not.

But the thing is, the thing is there is Look, there is a way to explain this and go over it. And there was a whole you know, subgroup there that was all about the Zionist movement in the eighteen hundreds and the seventeen hundreds, even at a certain point, you know, way before the Holocaust and all that. That has a lot to do with what it is Ken is probably talking about.

I don't know how well read he is on it when they.

Got the power. So okay, in nineteen thirteen, the Federal Reserve came into America. So you just let's keep arguing.

Well, I don't don't. I don't want to keep arguing.

That's the thing there. There's a whole thing to unpack there. If you want to go into it, somenight, that's great.

But you know what, it's his default position, Okay.

Ken's default position is an automatic problem for your default position be pete. So you know, stating that the nation state of Israel is one thing immediately. You two don't define it the same way immediately. The two of you don't define what Palestinians are the same way immediately. So this is a complete clash of worldviews. And you know that's not gonna let anybody get anything out if you

But I don't think it's gonna happen. You're impromptu. Look tell you what I'm gonna do here is real quick.

I'm just I'm just.

Gonna put you.

I'm gonna put you on hold temporarily. I'm gonna put you on hold temporarily. I'm gonna put the show on hold, temporarily. Calm down, everybody, calm down, and let's just take a quick break, all right, And I'm gonna come back and handle the rest of his own lines. And everybody else who was waiting and listening to that go back and forth, and you know, maybe you got some food for thought there, Maybe you didn't. Segment number two of the Ocelli Effect Friday Night Open Mic coming up next.

The War State by Michael Swanson explains the great national transformation that took place and put the Kennedy presidency in the context of the times, and reveals never before published information about the Cuban missile crisis. President Kennedy would not have been assassinated if he had been president two hundred years ago. His assassination took place in the context of the Cold War and the rise of the national security state.

Do you like history?

Real history that you were never taught in schools? Why the Vietnam War, nuclear bombs in nation building in Southeast Asia? By author Mike Swanson, with new documentation never seen before that'll open your eyes to events that led up to this. Why the Vietnam War Nuclear Bombs in nation Building in Southeast State nineteen forty five through nineteen sixty one. Get your copy today at Amazon dot com. Why the Vietnam War by author Mike Swants revel.

Through calm sage here, Oh shell, oh Sally, praise that day?

Cry uncle.

Do you remember that time when Benjamin Fulford said that an Asian secret society was going to dispatch ninjas to take down the Illuminati?

Oh that's interesting, Yeah in the Klatoon.

Yeah, did that ever work out too good?

No?

It didn't, did it didn't? But here on Ocelli dot com radio network, things work out a bit better, don't They.

Much better, Much clear and understanding about the programs, the programs, much clearer, getting live people into it. They really have a good conversation going much better, much better scene.

I say, forget Benjamin Fulford and his ninjas and listen to the Ochelly dot com radio network.

I agree, it's straight to the point, straight talk, and I like that idea. Chilly dot com, Chili dot com, we are.

Hey, Hey, hey, hey, hey.

Yo.

Yois Doug Campbell, host of the Dallas Action Podcast presented by Wall Street Window, and you are listening to the o'chilly Effect. Revelation through Conversation.

In Denial, Secret Wars with air Strikes and Tanks by Larry Hancock. Secret wars became a staple of US covert operations and are still happening today. Larry Hancock's book In Denial rips the cover off many of them, using new files. It exposes things about the Bay of Pigs that no one has ever written about before. It shows why it really failed and why the United States did not learn from it. It also shows why other countries today are

Want to deny into the light. In Denial, Secret Wars with air Strikes and Thanks Larry Hancock. For more information, go to Larry hyphen Handcock dot com. Pick up your copy of In Denial at Amazon dot com.

In Digital or physical force, Revelation through conversation.

What's yours? Why don't get one around?

We'll brn it off? No, no, no one as small as drugs regular help.

Help let me get ready.

For it, you'll tell me.

Second segment open mic night and here we are the hazards of the call in show.

It is what it is, so we'll keep going here.

I know I got Jimmy James on the line, but I would love to hear from anybody and everybody who is listening. Do us a paper, give us a call in, drop something else different on the table, or you know, continue on if you like, I mean, hell, if you want me to open up all the lines and we can just let everybody argue. We could do that for the rest of what do we got another hour? But we started about fifteen minutes late.

My fault there. But it is what it is.

So it is Friday night, and we could talk about one hundred things. Or maybe it's what is the quote from the article? I know I had an article in front of me here about Tulca Gabbard. I meant to bring up to be Pete, which I did real quick. But let's see Tulci Gabbard. A hundred people working around the clock on RFK and MLK assassination files. But like I said, Larry asked a great question in the private email group, and I'd love to know what it is she's going to do. But controversy swirling?

What a surprise? And isn't everybody tired of what's going on?

Uh?

I know I am.

I'm tired of even trying to cover the news. Uh could you tell last night when I did my news show? Could you maybe maybe not? And Uh, I did hear your feedback regarding my sources where I used certain sources too much? Fine, I am switching my sources up and I'll use different expositionary material to explain to you what it is I'm seeing reported in ten places. I'll just pick different examples.

No problem.

I can do that because I got to read like one hundred articles before I can even put together fifteen minutes worth the show. Anyway, maybe that's a fault of mine, my inefficiencies, but it is what it is. You could tell me and teach me differently. Three one nine, five two seven five zero one six three one nine five two seven five zero one six. And I know I got Jimmy James on the line, so let's go to him real quick. Jimmy, what's on your mind this week?

All kinds of things, all kinds going on?

What's going on?

Man?

Hey?

How you man? You sound as groggy as I feel. Did you just wake up from a nap?

You know, I've been up since the crack and noon, but nice, I didn't sleep much because I didn't. I didn't go sleep till like seven in the morning, reading those well bring more JFK documents.

Yeah, I was doing some of that too. And by the way, thank you for sending me that Watergate audio.

I did download it, so I don't know if that temporary link's gone, but I appreciate it, and I haven't sat down to listen to it, but believe me, the next time I got to sit down and write out a bunch of stuff, I'm gonna put it on and take a good listen because I love digging into the audio files like that. It's it's great. Which, by the way, I don't know if you know this, and I have been informed by some people that are working with Narraw there are upcoming other pieces of material that are going

Do you remember the number, Jimmy.

Because twenty four hondo twenty.

Four somewhere in there, right, I mean if I said somewhere between twenty and twenty five hundred, you'd say, yeah, somewhere in there. But whatever it is, love to see the additional material that's the way I'm thinking about it. But anyhow, you were keeping yourself up with that all night. Well I'm sure that's not the only thing on your mind. But did you discover any I don't know, gems.

Well, I just this isn't new to me. But check your email. Let me see what clip you got. I just sent you a clip?

Okay, earl does say?

Does it say it's promo? Is it a ten minute clip? Nine minutes something like that?

I don't know. It just showed up, so let mean give me a second.

By the way, whoever's calling from Earlemont, California, I don't know where that is, but stay on the line. Stop hanging up. They keep calling in and hanging up. Please hang out.

Anyway, what do we got here? Popeye the Sailor? Okay? Is that the clip?

Yeah?

Oh? Wrong link?

Okay, sorry, I got a Popeye think which By the way, this year, the original Popeye shorts became public domain. I don't know if people know that, but public domain Day happened in like January. I know everybody pays such close attention to it. But Singing in the Rain became public domain. Finally, stuff made in nineteen twenty nine stuff that was copywritten then has now run out of its copyright and become public domain, and the first Popeye short is on that list.

But yeah, yeah, I'll get the right link and whatnot, and it'll take me a minute, so go ahead and get the uh the other callers in and see what they have to say, because mine might take about ten fifteen minutes.

Oh boy, all right, well you hang on then and I'll go back around. First of all, I promised Danny real fast. Let me just check in with him before I go to Kent. Uh, Danny, you mind, you might hang you mind hanging out for a couple of minutes. I'll go back over to Kent and then I'll come back to you, and then Jimmy should be all set.

Right, no worries, no worries to Hey, by the way, did you know about that?

I think you might be the kind of guy who's interested in when stuff goes public domain? But did you know, the first Popeye short and also the first all color film, was made in nineteen twenty nine, like all color, and it does no longer exist in print. But if you could find a copy of the first film ever made on all in color, you could, you know, do an exposition of it, play it somewhere, upload it to YouTube.

Singing in the Rain I think that song.

Happy Days Are Here Again also became public domain this year, And I figure, you're the kind of guy who keeps track of that stuff you.

Do, right, Not really, I mean i've seen the original Popeyes. That's hard too, but not really. It's I mean, I mean, I will hear it in passing, but it's not like, Wow, that's someone to go down that. I mean, there's just other things. I'm a little more interested, But I'm not, like not disinterested in that type of subject matter. Why it's kind of fascinated.

Like last year, I think it was last year or the year before, the very first Mickey Mouse Steamboat Willie version of Mickey Mouse is now public domain.

Yeah, now that's always that's always fun.

Now, just to be clear, Mickey Mouse is not public domain because they've continued to use it. But the Steamboat Willy version of Mickey Mouse and Steamboat Willie is now public domain, Okay, because of because of the year it was released.

Yeah, go ahead, yeah, yeah.

And I think your phone call that keeps dropping off. I'm just curious that is that happened to be Early Mart because that would be that would be that would be south of me, that would be near the Fresno area, between Fresno and Bakersfield. There's just a small farming community kind of like to buy a little bigger than the community I grew up in.

According to my call out, yes, according to my call log, you're correct, I missed the eye. I didn't realize it until you said Early Mark, but yeah, I missed the eye.

There.

It is Early Mark, California that has called in and dropped a few times.

Yes, yeah, yeah, they should call in. It's between Presno and Bakersfield. Up the Highway ninety nine, Interstate ninety nine and there. Yeah, it's a little farmingcare. There's probably some if they're a native from there's probably something we can relate to. As far as small farming communities in California comes of John Steinbeck mode.

Okay, cool, I'll tell you what early Mark California listener. Tell you what I'll do is, if you call in, I'll let you and Danny talk about California, if you want to put you both on the line at the same time. But Danny want to put you on hold for now and go back around to spend Kent and you know, maybe he's got some other things on his mind, or he wants to talk about what he was talking about before. I don't know, but you know I wanted to give everybody a breather, so I did. Anyways, Kent.

Yeah, I'm totally chill, guys. I mean, you guys got to remember something. I'm not a statist. I don't perceive things the same way. I'm a voluntarist or an anarchist. No rulers or master and you know this, Chuck, So, I don't see borders is a big deal. I don't see you know, religions is a big deal. I'll see any kind of state or authority is a big deal. I care about people, care about people, give me, he writes access. I care about the people.

Yes, I know, can't let me.

And when natural rights are are violated, I care about that. So that's where I'm at. I'm not anti Semitic, I don't I'm not out for the Jews.

Can let me, you know, Kent. Let me.

Let me introduce you to an idea. I've never tried to run by you because I've heard all this from you, and I heard all this from you when we did we co hosted this kind of thing together. You know, I used to talk to you on other shows.

You and I have talked.

I know this, But let me just run something by you. You got to understand something from the other side, which is this. You know how there are people that react to if you tell them that you practice certain things when it comes to religion or politics or even sexuality. But let's just let's just go with the religious aspect, which is a little bit separate from the topic that got everything heeded here, because that's kind of religion and

I also say anarchists, I'll say no rulers nor masters. Yeah, I don't believe in government. And there's a reason for that. Let's just look at the track record they are. Okay, you see, from ars to pharaohs to the presidents. I don't believe in that stuffs for the people. It's never gonna work for the people. Okay, But you see, that's what I talk about. So when I say anarchists, I understand what you're saying. Hey, I'm an agnostic atheist, druid Bard.

Okay, Now, Frankly, a lot of different things.

See, I'm for human rights. I care about human beings.

Like Frankly, Like Frankly, to me, that didn't make any sense to me. Okay, I'm just telling you now, that doesn't make any sense to me. How you end up being sort of like you know, a Bard and into that end of things and on that end of spirituality, and then also being an agnostic and an atheist, which are two different things.

None of that makes any sense to me. And meanwhile, when I explained to people, stop stop, stop stopping, don't know. I don't want you to explain.

I'm trying to explain a different point to you here. It's not about the particulars hang on. The thing is that doesn't make any sense to me. But when I explain to people that I am actually a minister and I do minister to people, and they say, well, which particular thing do you minister to people? And I say, it's a multi faith situation where I minister to people based on their orientation. Some people look at me like

And I tell them, no, that's not the way it works. I mean.

And if you want a practical example, you think about the guy who is, like, say, the chaplain in a military unit. He's going to serve the Christians, he's going to serve the Jews, he's gonna serve the other people who just don't know what to make of anything and just have a general belief in God. He's going to serve whoever asks him to serve them, because that's the meaning of the word minister, is to serve someone to

A lot of times.

I'm just telling you this. I'm passing this to you as advice. That's all I'm saying. And now I'm going to shut up. But I wanted to throw that at you because I'd like other people to think about this too. I'm, you know, sorry, I'm kind of using you as an example here, Kent, But oh, I got it.

It's all good man. I mean, I'm always trying to better myself in any way I can. It's not necessarily saying I can't a buy human beings. That's what it boils down to. My spirituality is a little bit like the Druid, pagan or whatever. But no, I don't believe in the fairies. I don't believe in all that stuff. Obviously, as as far as being an agnostic goes, I don't believe there's a God until I have evidence. But it's being or excuse me, an atheist. But as an agnostic,

Of Celtic practices and beliefs. Though, leads me to believe that in some shape or form.

Uh.

You have an idea that the Earth in and of itself is sentient and alive as a being. Right, So the Earth is a greater, much larger, higher being than our little human selves. You know, size doesn't really matter in this case, And no I'm not talking about that, but you know what I'm saying.

Uh, the Earth didn't exist, we wouldn't exist. But that's and that's I'm not saying like exactly what you're saying, But what you're saying is true.

Yeah, that's a scientific fact. Without the Earth, we're gone.

But the thing is that without that science and without all that stuff, usually what you're saying requires a little bit of a belief in higher entities that would be gods, even if they're small g gods. Right, And so when you say that and then you mix it with atheist and agnostic, I go, what the hell, I'm just breaking it down now, Okay, going into the particulars.

That's kind of my thing doing like it's fun to explain so I can understand where like you under like like whoa, whoa, I got it. But just to my spirituality, But do I believe in a higher power yet? But do I believe?

No?

But I do I believe there could be a higher power absolutely.

I mean I promise you that in a nutshell right there.

And I promise you I'm one of the most open minded people you're ever going to meet, because I will literally sit and explain to somebody even though I don't want to defend either position. Some people go Satan worship devil worship, same thing, and I go, actually not, you know, because I've taken the time to study and go, No Satanists believe in Basically you.

Want to break down.

The real shocker is that a real Satanist, the Church of Satan people actually believe that they are God, that they within themselves are God. A devil worshiper is just what it sounds like, a devil worshiper. And they're actually two different things. So you're, you know, your temple of set But in.

Order to worship them, you have to believe in them. The point is, I don't believe in any of them any any any more than I believe in them a higher bier God. No, I believe there's possibility and everything else. But until I believe that, I'm not going to believe in no devil, that's for sure.

Right. But here's the thing. See, but here's the other thing.

Right, Even though I would say that you know the Bible, okay, in air quotes the Bible, the Holy Book, whatever King James version you've read, et cetera, it is simultaneously not a historical document in my mind, but it is also the truth, and that is a position where people go, what the hell are you talking about? There is a lot of truth in there, and it's not just little pieces of it. There is a whole greater truth in there. And then some people would say, well, then why are

And my personal beliefs.

Again are different than the things I do when I minister to someone. So you know, here we go, things are not there's a lot of nuances. Okay, that's all I'm trying to get at. And you got to consider that when you make sweeping statements about stuff like it's really interesting. Like I got into a weird argument down here down south, and I'm going to leave it at this because I just had this odd thought while I

Right? Yeah, Okay, well see now there's your answer. No, No, I got you.

But here's the weird thing about this conversation. Right, there's a group of guys there. It's me and four guys that were born and bred here in the South, all right. The guys from down south here freaked out.

Like why would you do that? You know what I mean? And it was like, well, why wouldn't you do that? What's the you know?

And their idea is that a little person is akin to a child in their minds, right, So you're like just creeping toward pedophilia if that's where you're going.

No, I'm just telling you what their logic was. Okay, And the same thing happens.

When they hear this, they off to go meet the sheep down in Milton's Creek whatever in the barn.

But yeah, go ahead, listen, I got I got a hundred jokes. Okay, no no problem at all, Like like you know, like.

Like somebody once said, hey, wait, you said you're you said you're Italian, right, and I said yeah, and they said, well you should be somewhere beating your wife.

Right.

Look, the point is that some of these guys, they have certain ideas about things, and it's not and I'm not even pointing to be pete on this, I'm saying that generally, when people hear certain things, they default in positions based on their understanding. There are Christian guys who, you know, I figure a pretty open mind mind. It actually fairly what you would call socially liberal down south here that I've run into who immediately equate a gay

It's all together, you know.

And I point out that this is why, you know, they stress things like in the Bible that even if you find somebody laying with a man, yes, execute them a man with a man, but also a man with an animal.

Not only kill the guy, but kill the animal.

Two.

It's very blanket sometimes, and people have these beliefs when it comes to their politics, when it comes to their socialization, their family connections, their religion, et cetera, et cetera.

Yet in the Book of Joshua says kill all animals, humans, everybody else except for the pre teen women will take them as our own. So they kept the virgins alive.

Well, because you can always yeah, you can always take them and breed them into obscurity.

And besides, well anyway I can make a joke there. I'm not gonna but the thing is. There's a lot to it, right, I'm just saying anyway, let's just see, I don't even know how much time we got it.

You're guys that we always read the Bible front of the bag. I've studied all this and human history and everything else.

Me too.

You know, I do absolutely know what I'm talking about on these these topics.

Believe I'll say this, I believe it or not. I'm ordained.

I'm actually ordained as a reverend in more than one more than one face, So I get.

It, gotcha, Okay, So I just want ever to know, is I'm not racist. I'm not against Jews or anything like that. You know, I'm cool with BT if we want to discuss something, that's fine. But you know, I'm totally cool with you VP. But look for a long time.

Listen, he's serious about doing listening.

Again, I don't want him to know that I'm not one of.

These Yeah, okay, you already.

All right, you already said, you already said, but listen. He did also, and I want to get this out before we lose track of it. He did say if you want to have a debate with him some night on the show, that he's been willing to do that with you. So if you want to do that, do me a favor, contact me and let me know which night would be good. Uh, you know what time I like to broadcast, and I'll arrange it with him and we'll come up with a knight to do that.

But you guys are both gonna have to take.

Like because I actually want to talk to business with you about a certain cashed out with span Can show. Well maybe we could talk some business with Okay. Well, and I'm talking business, I'm my money in business and everything else.

Okay.

Well, I'm producing shows. I'm producing shows until midnight here at least tonight. Okay, So I'm going to be producing Aaron's show and the Uncle show after this.

So do you want to talk to me that? Do you want to talk tomorrow or But.

Well I was going to actually get a jump on Uncle tonight if if it's okay, well yeah.

That's fine.

But we can't talk business on uncles. So I'm asking you when when do you.

Want to do?

That's what I'm saying. Maybe after Huncle you get off with them and you stay on with me and we could throw around a couple ideas and then we can mess each other and stuff.

Okay, there, I usually like to get done that for a while.

I took off and I plan on going on Uncle. So if you want, if you have the time, if you're not too tired after Uncle, then then yeah, I'm around, so all right. If not, we can message everything as far as that goes. But I just want to make it I just want to make it completely clear. I'm totally cool with DP.

Okay, that's great.

I care about human beings. That's what I want people to know.

I understand, and that's and that's where this is all coming from.

With you.

Your whole position anyway, is that you're you're concerned about the fact that there are people dying, and uh, you know, and it's it's not quite by their own will exactly. I know that everybody says, well, you know, that's the government they put in and this and that. But the one thing to consider is that the majority of people there are children, and we're not allowed to vote. The last time they held a damn vote, So.

Yeah, they weren't even alive the last time. Most of them weren't even alive the last time.

There was a vote.

Well at least the last time in two.

Thousand and six at least, yeah, the last time and six.

I mean that would make it you have to at least be eighteen, almost twenty nineteen years old vote and then you would have to have been twenty or eighteen. Then the vote, well, you'd have to make you about forty. You'd have to be a minimum of thirty kalisins children.

You know, you'd have to be a minimum of thirty seven years old right now to have actually been alive and able to vote back then.

I think. So you know, here we go. Anyway, it's a complex thing.

If you guys want to do a debate, yeah, probably about thirty seven. Yeah, yeah, if you guys want to we are chalked about thirty seven and two. I was thirty six in two thousand and six.

I don't even remember when I was thirty seven. I don't know.

I think it was around twenty twenty ten. But anyway, whatever it is, it is. The thing is, you guys can debate another night or whatever, but let's go ahead and get to whatever else you want to get.

To and we'll move through.

Because I got about about twenty eight minutes until we begin the age of transitions here, So go ahead.

Oh I'm good. I'm just I you know, we get so many bad so much bad news going on tonight, you know, and like I came in with my April Fools prank and everything about just like we are just we've got so many greedy people and the systems got to change, you know, people, we got to understand, like either way, this is not a race war or any of us as a class war. And that's when one of Luther King was pointing out before they killed him, and you know, this is a class war. It's us against them, it's not.

It's not.

We don't need to be raped against each other's race or even politics, the left and the right and all that. We need to get together and just say, hey, what's best for humanity right now? Like what what can we do to help, you know, help people and not just businesses and corporations and governments and all this crap. So yeah, yeah, I mean that's just I mean, we all know that's what it is to say something funny. I'd like to talk about jokes. I'm looking forward in June the bears

Yeah.

No, just listening to the bird chirp, just watching the you know, bird fly or whatever schools play wherever you're at. From my case, a gator swim sometimes, absolutely it's absolute medicine. But let's let's get some other callers. Anybody wants to say anything, I'll chill for a bit.

There we go.

So you know what, and I agree with you about the nature and medicine and all that good stuff, because man, you know I could use more of it. I'd go outside more, but there's too many damn loose dogs in my neighborhood lately, which is why you keep hearing Weeni dogs on my broadcast, because they're getting riled up about the other dogs running around my house outside when they shouldn't be so. Apologies there, Kent, did you find your clips?

You mean Jimmy James? And yes, I emailed to the right one and them Gmail took your Gmail.

Oh, I meant to say, thanks to Kent, and then yes, Jimmy James, you're right. So let's see what do we have here? Looks like meeting James Angleton.

All right, all right, yeah he been. I was gonna introduce it, all right. This is important for anyone interested in eleven twenty two sixty three, which is what I'm interested in. As far as historical stuff. I don't claim to know fucking Muhammad this, that and the other thing. I'm concerned with this one day and everyone's let's get something straight about the genius Angleton. Okay, he wasn't.

First, let's just play this clip.

It's pretty self explanatory. The man's got bona fid, he's up the behind this isn't no, damn just jacking the jaw. Let's listen to this guy. It's like a nine minute clip and be thankful because the real show's over two hours and I listen to it. Well, I the main part that's of interest to us. All right, well, community, long.

Long clip here, But let's see if we can get through nine minutes without them hitting me with a commercial.

No, no, teeny tiny clip. Like I said, the original ones like two hours, things like nine minutes.

Yeah, but as I said, nine minutes is kind of long. Let's see if they let me get through it without a commercial.

Okay, let's see what happens.

Special Operations Cobert Ox Spiana, the Team House with your hopes, Jack Murphy and David Bark.

Now, before you went to the farm, you were an intern for a while, right, because there was a formative I thought that in your book you mentioned that this was actually kind of a formative part of your CIA vision.

Yeah.

Yeah, you've done your homework, Davis. Yeah, I described that in my first book, fair Play. My training out of the farm wasn't going to start for a couple of months after I arrived at the CIA, so I needed an interim assignment, and not knowing any better, I took an interim assignment in the counter Intelligence staff and it was really interesting work because my assignment was to update a study that the counter intelligence staff had done on the Rhoda Kappel, which was.

The have you ever dreamed about living and glorious varmony?

Yep?

Hold on a second, the Russian networks and German occupied Europe during World War Two, and.

NSA at the time was finally, all those years later, breaking some of the traffic between the center in Moscow and their operatives out in occupied Europe. They were communicating, of course, via clandestine radios. I found it absolutely amazing to read the first person at CI headquarters as these transcripts came in from ensay the drama, the tension, the actual patriotism of these Russian spies throughout Europe putting their

So all of his attendants are telling me how to behave When I got there.

I'm getting pretty nervous. So finally they said, okay, going in, and so they opened.

The door and I kind of walked in. They had told me that it would be.

A dark room, and in fact it was. He had big black curtains, he had just one desk lamp and these all these eyes looking at at me, and the big haze of smoke because he was a change smoker. And they had told me standard attention in front of his desk, he might not speak, So just launch into your brief.

On Eurota Capella study.

I did that, and I'm going I'm feeling pretty good about myself. I was flowing pretty well. I said, this is going pretty well. He cannot fail to be impressed by my ci acumen of this very early stage in my career, not at all. Because at a certain point he stopped me. He looked me in the eye and he said, mister Olsen, don't you realize that the Rhota Capello was nothing more than a German controlled deception operation?

The road to Capella.

I knew it wasn't German controlled, but that was his thesis.

He saw conspiracies everywhere.

He was a double fake expert.

Okay, now, Jimmy, I'm gonna stop it here and I'll tell you you need to send me these clips ahead of the show, because I would have rather checked out who this guy is.

Okay, well, he gets to that.

Yeah, he eventually gets Angleton's job. Just play yeah. From now on, parts are coming.

Up, all right from now on.

Send me these things ahead of time, because I would have sliced off in the first two minutes and I would have checked out who.

This guy is.

Well, I would have checked out who this guy is.

I would have checked out the operation he's talking about, and I would have done background on this to see if this is something that's really you know, heavy or what, because some of the you know, there's a lot of these guys out there making claims that they were this, they were that, and indeed they might have worked.

For the CIA, but.

I don't know. I'm just saying I don't know. Yeah, I'm trying to tell you something.

Yeah, good, what then you particularly the relevant point?

Okay, well, but that's the thing. It's not the listen, it's not the relevant point. I would rather cut it down to the relevant point and done background work on this so I could explain it, because now I'm at a disadvantage here. And also I'm thinking this is a pretty sleepy story so far. The guy takes his time telling the story.

What are you gonna do? It's fine, I'm going to continue to play it. Yeah, but nine.

Minutes is a long clip for somebody to listen to this. If they've never heard of any of this before, they're going, what the hell is this guy talking about?

By now believe me?

Okay, So I would rather punch it up and also have the back so I know what I'm talking about when I turn away from it. But anyway, I'm going to continue to play it.

Here we go.

And so he rudely dismissed me, said that I had wasted his time, I had wasted the CI staff's time by coming up with these totally erroneous conclusions. I go out to the outer office, everybody, how did you go?

How did it go?

And I'm crushed. And as I'm walking down the cordor afterwards, I honestly was saying to myself, you know, Jim, you had such high hopes for this career, and what a shame because it has ended before it even started. There's no way you're going to survive that kind of a chewing out by the most powerful man in the CIA.

So I said to myself, if by some.

Miracle, this CIA career survives, which I doubt, I don't know what direction will take me, but I know one thing I will never ever again go anywhere near counterintelligence. Which is pretty ironic, is that because I ended up being number seven in the chain of counterintelligence a chiefs at the CIA later on in my career.

And it's interesting because you probably didn't know it at that time, but later you realize how much damage Angleton had actually done, not only to the CIA, but to the field of counterintelligence in general.

Right, Yeah, that's exactly right, Dave. That's the legacy of James E's and Angleton continued for many, many years after he was finally forced out. He discredited counter intelligence and discipline. He made it useless for the twenty years that he was the chief from nineteen fifty four to nineteen seventy four because he was chasing fantoms. He did not allow us to run any Russian operations because he was too

Okay, So Jimmy, let me ask you a question before I finished this clip out, because you and I both read a lot of documentation and what this guy just said right here is kind of false. And I'm trying to be polite because we know that there were counterintelligence operations that were run against the Russians from fifty four to seventy four.

That's not something that didn't exist.

Okay, angle To had his own points of view, and also Engleton, Yeah, he was nuts, he was paranoid, We know that for certain. But we also know that he actually did a lot of things that people don't even realize that he should be credited for, regarding diplomatic connections that were not supposed to be made on his level but were later revealed as you know, above the board, diplomatic connections regarding various assets in Europe.

Right, let's just let play out and then we could discuss it.

Yeah, sure, but I'm just saying right there, that's that's a rough piece right there, that he's saying that you know, he ruined counterintelligence entirely, and that we had well.

Let's put this way, there wasn't any successful counterintelligence programs. Well, say, damn. Success we had was with fake guys like Nasenko. But let's play the recording and hear what the man that was there has to say.

No, I understand, let's hear what the man has to say. But here's the thing.

When I'm reading through tons of documents, though, the fact that he's saying there were no operations is flatly false. Now, there were no operations through counterintelligence sub section under Angleton that this guy was in on. But we also know that Angleton ran a whole bunch of weird stuff, and again success another story theory. Well, that's that's not my theory.

That's what the PaperWorks is.

Bruce. Now all it is your theory. Bruce Solely was actually the man who would have been doing those things, and he was a Dan kg be mole. Let's just play the recording.

Well, like I said, there's a lot of other sections to the agency that we're doing a lot of things. And I'm not a fan of the agency, but I would say, you know, again, I would have rather done some background on this first.

But okay, let's play the rest.

He had destroyed our Russian operational program for all.

Those years, and I can forget that.

But even after he left, the reputation count intelligence was so teened, it was so out of vogue for anybody to go into count intelligence that we had trouble attracting good people to go into counter intelligence. That persisted for many, many years.

And at the same time, there actually were moles at CIA and other governmental institutions that correct me if I'm wrong, Jim, We're not being sought out because of this.

That's right.

Counter intelligence was use. It was worse than useless because it was preventing us from doing real counterintelligence. Some people said that Angleton could not have harmed us more if he'd been a Russian agent because he paralyzed, and we were not able to overcome that until much later. I would say that we really were only able to rehabilitate counter intelligence at the CIA in the late nineteen eighties, when we finally began to get our act together and good people win.

It to It's okay. So that's the end of the clip.

And then I guess they play music and probably promo for their teams team house thing.

Which I'll give it.

I'll give a link to I'll give a link to what one second, one second, one second, Jimmy, I will give a link to this and credit these podcasters along with the show notes, because that's the right thing to do, just to let you guys know. That'll be in the show notes, and you know whatever it is they're called. Let's see the team House. That's the name of the YouTube channel, and I believe the name of the podcast that these two guys run, who I'm not familiar with.

But go ahead, Jimmy.

Now you were going to say, yeah, that's the good part about playing the first part. They've said all that.

Yeah, I know, but I don't want to run a promo. I want to acknowledge. You have to acknowledge. You got to give acknowledgment, you know, accreditation to somebody when you're playing their clip, and you got to do commentary for it. Otherwise you're just stealing their material. So we plan to turn this into a podcast. So I'm just letting you know this housekeeping stuff I gotta do. Man, Sorry, good.

Right, trying to Oh yeah, so Angleton, Yeah, and believable. There's a hell of a little more than that. I watched this guy for hours and hours this James Olsen guy ended up with Engleton's job in the eighties, and it's worth watching if you're interested in the Cold War and in particular the JFK assassination. If you some people just think that boy that Angleton's the mastermind, well, first beyond actually maybe you should read the documents and then

I absolutely agree with you on that point, that that task force and any further efforts to declassify things that are relevant to that time period.

To the assassination, etc. Et cetera.

These people require a bunch of consultation and from more than one source.

You know.

Look, I appreciate what Jeff is doing, and I appreciate his work in the past. Obviously I've had him on this show. I've read a lot of his material. I respect him, but his is not the only point of view that could be relevant, helpful or enlightening regarding what

They're on Capitol Hill.

And the people they're consulting with. Now, I'm not saying eliminate anybody. I'm saying, add what do you think.

Jimmy, Yeah, pretty much. I'm just saying, look more. At the end of the day, Stone, Morley and Dougenio or as they like to call him, do you good, Juda? And they know they all basically got the same packed everyone in the damn community except I don't know me apparently thanks the CIA did it. A couple of koops think that the mafia did it.

What I don't know, well, I'm not a CIA did a guy, and I'm the guy who yelled at everybody for years the mafia is not responsible. But yeah, I've got different points of view on it too. And you know, saying that I'd be the greatest consult but I could be a somebody who could give some consultation here that would definitely differ from what they're getting now. And there are a bunch of people that have various areas of study.

Okay, just saying Larry Hancock would be.

He would be excellent.

He would be excellent because he's bless him and bless Wiseberg.

I don't know how they do it, but they have that that they just will not be tempted.

And to start with what Wiseberg would have called the siren song of conspiracy. As soon as they start what specifics, he backs out, says, no, no, no, you know what I'm saying.

He'll give you.

What's known, the facts.

And then your mind kind of fills in the blanks. And there's no real reason to you know, come up with serious conciencies when you just lay out facts the way those two guys can.

Yeah, the only mistake Weisberg ever made really was with that photograph, and like, you know that that was it. Outside of that, you know, the guy, the guy really was remarkable in that he was not pulled down everybody else's rabbit hole, you know, and he was after a documentation.

He was involved in a bunch of foiler lawsuits. Good stuff. Him and even David Rohan in the seventies, the two of them.

You know, before we had the ARRB and before we had the HSCA be and you know, public knowledge and everything else, these guys were suing just to pull all kinds of things out and showing us where documents were missing, the executive sessions of the War Commission and things like this that they had to sue to get. And Weisberg knew what he was looking for, you know. So yeah, no,

Would say, Stu, David Larry's I'll tell you something that's interesting about Larry.

I had my dad, who's basically a novice, read his new book, and you know how Larry.

Doesn't come out and say someone's guilty or anything like that, right, right, And then after my dad read it, I just said, so, so who does he think did it? My dad said, he seems to think the Cubans said it.

And I said, our Cubans are the Cubans are.

Cubans, said good, good job. Well, that is an excellent primary book, right in, an excellent book. I've read it, my dad's read it, and it's a good book. Everyone's to read it. That's interesting.

No, when I told you on this show that when I've got hold of that book finally, and I had seen the drafts beforehand, But when I got hold of that book finally, what did I say? This is a textbook, This is a reference book and is absolutely you know, one of the best resources you're going to get on this historical character.

You got any reason to complain about my viewpoint on.

This, No, I just think that it's interesting. That's what my dad took away before that. He was mostly an.

LBJ man, and I would say that even though I don't necessarily point, all of the blame on the same people that Larry does. I'm convinced that they were involved, So you know, take it as you like, Yeah.

That's that's the thing. I mean, there's a I bet if you ask, wasn't even the Eugenio and them, wouldn't they pretty much say the same people were the actual team in deely as say, for instance.

I would or no, no, they wouldn't. It's it's really weird. And in fact, the Eugenio you.

You know what, I'll discuss the Genio with you off air, because his viewpoint has shifted in a weird way. I was almost surprised that he was allowed to be part of that. I mean, I know he was there because Oliver Stone and his connection with him, and that's why he was there. But man, there is something weird going on with Jimmy at this point, and not you Jimmy anyway,

I got a feeling some people might have hung up. Let's see.

Oh maybe I'm wrong about that. Danny's still there. Looks like Kent is still there as well.

That's all I had.

Thanks for indulged to me. I thought it was pretty interesting. I think anyone the JFK community or anyone interested in the Cold War might find it pretty interesting. But totally different, totally. You gotta admit this is a totally different look at Angleton than anyone else's. I mean, everyone else is present this guy like, Oh, nothing gets by this guy. He's he's almost godlike, he's a genius. Just ask him.

You might want to go back in the You might want to go back in the archives with me and Carmine discussing this guy, because you find that. My viewpoint about Angleton is he's definitely a double edged razor. I mean, because he did some remarkable things, but he was also a paranoid mental case. Uh, you know, at certain points and his paranoia, as per usual, was going in the wrong direction, and it was pretty dangerous for him to be in control of so much of u CIA assets

No, I found that very interesting. I got to ask the question, why do paranoid metal pieces seem to rise to the top.

Why is that so?

I don't you know.

When I was looking at who they were recruiting post World War Two, I asked myself that same question. You know, everybody points to paper clip, but nobody talks about who was actually in on paper clip, you know, and who they actually recruited. Some of those guys, not just the Werner von Brauns, you know that they brought across because duh, science, rockets, et cetera. Some of the intelligence guys they brought across.

Because they're recruiting.

Holy crap, they were recruiting surveillance guys that were insane from the from the Germans. And I'm going, why in the world I wouldn't let this guy in my house to feed my dogs while I was.

Away for the day. And they're bringing them into the CIA. I'm going, this is insane.

Their own psychological evaluations would tell them that these guys were paranoid, violent, this and that, and they're like, no, no, no, let's bring them over to the US, and you know, we'll wipe the record clean. They're not war criminals. Well, at least we'll tell people they're not war criminals. But anyway, you know, it was crazy looking at paper clip man. So I don't know what to tell you. Yeah, people do rise in certain positions when they have compromised personalities.

But but we'll be allowed to happen. I mean, just just just give you just a more recent thing. You know, look at the Epstein Flea deal. He's intelligence hands off. Yeah, I know, how how how did we just possibly let that go? Well, I mean I've never understood that.

Yeah.

Yeah, and I noticed that. I noticed Epstein is not on the list of stuff for Tulsea Gabbard to get to.

Hey, b Pete, you're still with us, man, Yeah, I'm here. Cool.

You got any thoughts on any of this stuff or the question Danny asked.

No regards to Jimmy Engleton, I don't know. I've never been able to get a fix on Angleton. I figured he was just a dirty intelligence off like the rest of them. He had goods on people, and they manipulated people to get what they wanted.

Yeah, I do.

I think it was in Kennedy. I think there's a chance he very well could be.

Yeah, I mean, look, it is also it's also possible to be a dirty, dirty problem and a genius at the same time.

You can be more than one thing, too, right.

I mean absolutely, it wasn't for evil geniuses Superman's the Superman franchise when I never got off the ground.

Yeah, he'd be bored man, just you know, waiting around for when Lois decides to trip and fall down a manhole or something.

Right, Danny, Yeah, that's true.

But about Danny's question, what do you what do you think about that idea that it seems like only you know, paranoid nutcases rise up in the ranks in a lot of cases.

What are your thoughts on that.

Well, it's just paranoid nutcases in a well, if you would imagine a terrarium or an aquarium, you've got a bunch of psycho nutcases in a psycho nutcase world. People that I have met that have worked for intelligence agencies for the most of them were complete nutbags, and somehow maybe that's a prerequisite to be hired. And some that I've talked to family members connected with agencies that.

Really have no.

They have no outward look whatsoever.

It's whatever they get through the agencies that they're working for, and that's what they feed on.

So, you know, organizations like that, a military, any of these.

Three letter acronyms that you can find throughout government, they seem to attract nutjobs.

Fair enough.

I mean, I've always been told I should take it as a compliment that I didn't get that job with the NSA back in two thousand and one or two, right, was that.

No, they'll tell you, like they told me in the Army, you're too logical to be here.

You need to go.

Okay, applied to.

Be a signals analyst.

I know I've admitted that on this show before, but I don't remember if I did it on a Friday night. I did apply to be an NSA signals analyst, so you know, and they they they were doing the interviews, they went to interview people. I can tell you that it was my you know now x and dead in fact wife that screwed it up, uh in my mind.

But they didn't tell me why I failed exactly.

But I failed to get through their uh their background and uh you know examination.

So there you go.

I did a good Over the years, a lot of these personality tests that you have to take before certain places will hire you, and I always get told, well, you know, we had some questions about some of your answers on the test, and.

It's like, well, do you want to discuss it? Well, no, we're not going to offer you the position. It was like, okay, and you.

I've had people to say that they have looked at my answers and said, you're two stic of most people.

Mm hmm.

And it's like, well, you know, my parents raised me to tell the truth. They didn't tell me that not everybody tells the truth.

That was the problem. You get very skeptical over the years. I don't trust the band soul so father and I can thrown.

Mm hmm, I hear you, so, Danny, Yeah, you're right, Danny, your your your thoughts on that feedback.

I'm kind of like like VP, that was raised to tell the truth, and I've always believed, like you know, the truth is such a free I mean, it just I sleep better at night. I'm not good lying, if that makes any sense. It's difficult, So I get, I get where VP is coming from, right, It's just much easier to for your conscious to tell the truth.

Yea, No, that's what it boils down to.

And I mean, if I'm honest about the way I was raised, I'm supposed to say all the things that you guys are saying, but that's not the way I operate, and that's the way I'm supposed to go, and I rebelled against that. So you know, I was raised with the concept of duality. You have a performance that you put on for certain people, and then you have your

So defensively, yea.

In most of these groups and organizations, you have a lot of egomaniacs that are citing each other to their way to the top, because that's where the power lies.

And it's.

All egomaniacs.

You know, there's not a government agency out there that I have a bunch of egomaniacs. Like politicians, most of them are narcissists. Well what you say that, Well, as much as they promote themselves and think that they're going to be the answer to the world's problems, I'm sorry metapoliticians.

And yet it wasn't a narcissist, no.

Exactly right. And the other problem. See, this is where I fail.

And by the way, I've been told that I fail in certain personality tests because I'm not driven by a self aggrandization, like there's no way to like hook into me, like, well listen.

Well we'll reward you, we'll elevate you and this and that, and I don't really care about that. I never have.

And that's what my problem is is I'm not the active, narcissistic self promoter, you know. I know people think that's strange you slap your name on everything, and well as just unoriginal thinking.

There, that's all that is. And also I know nobody else will steal it. That's all.

It's just a matter of defense. Again, I'm a defensive thinker. I mean, what am I supposed to do with that?

Anyways? It is what it is.

But I'm just telling you there's a difference in psychology, and probably I would not have I could have done well in an intelligence agency, but I would have never been, like, you know, the chief of anything big because I would have never sought it. You know, I would have just wanted to.

Yeah, to be.

Honest with you, I don't it would have lasted long because I don't think we can kiss ass.

There's another problem. There's another problem, and that's the other weird thing is that these guys are bending themselves into pretzels trying to kiss their own asses, and yet they have to spend a lot of time kissing other people's asses to advance, right, and that's another weird aspect of it. So you take that with whatever other mental health issues these people have, and you throw it into a pot, and what do you get? Crazy soup? You know, and

You know?

Good? What was that be, Pete?

I said, I think most of them are.

Yeah, fair enough. So Danny, it looks like we're getting close to the end time here. Oh we are at the end.

Crap, all right, guys, here's what I'm gonna do.

I'm gonna just kind of close this out here, and we got to get over to the Age of transitions. That's just the way it is. And I think Aaron might even have a guest and we'll do uncle after that. So coming up the age of transitions, Beat Pete, I want to thank you. I want to thank Jimmy, and I want to thank Kent and also Danny for calling in our friend in What the hell was the name

Man, we'll do this again. Final word, be.

Pete, Well, tell everybody to go to Ochilly dot com and hit the donate button. And believe me, I put my money where my mouth is, so you know, I'm not telling you to do something that I would to do. We need to support. There's a lot going on. We're gonna have to make some changes to some software that we're going to be using, so got a lot of upcoming stuff. Other than that, I hope everybody has a good week and looking forward to doing it next week.

Right.

I might even expand this to video the call in if you guys want to do that. I mean, your feedback will be helpful, and any contribution will be helpful because we are going to have to get some new software and a few other things this month. And be piece not lyon. He definitely contributes and I appreciate that, and I appreciate.

All of you that do the same.

Danny has I know that for sure, and so has Jimmy James. These guys do put their mouth where their money is, and their money where their mouth is. I don't know if that's sanitary, but it is the way it is.

Joke.

Sorry, about that, but anyway, I am merely o'ceelly. All of you, including those who do, contribute to those who don't, share the show.

By the way.

Let people know and see if you can encourage other call ins. I'm merely o'ceelly.

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