Get ready, jeez, March fifth, twenty twenty five, allegedly according to that thing we call a calendar, and guess what this is, the o'celly effect. It is a Wednesday night and we're live. Now. This is gonna be interesting because I didn't plan on it exactly this way, but I've
gone to air a little late. I'm gonna shut up quickly, believe it or not, and get right away to Mike Swanson, the guy behind Wall Street Window dot com, the author of the War State as well as Why the Vietnam War, And we're gonna talk to him about the current state of the economy because man, I'm awfully confused. We're gonna squeeze this in in less than an hour, and then right away we're gonna get to Larry Hancock in the second hour and talk to him about international affairs. So anyway, Mike,
let's straight to it. How are you doing tonight?
First of all, oh, I'm doing fun.
There's I sent you a bunch of news articles, yes that you know, as possible talking points, but yeah, their business deal is being done. And when I didn't send you because it came out after that email hit the news wire, there's a company called scale Ai, okay, and they just announced a multimillion dollar defense deal with the Defense Department to help with military automation. They have a
program that's gonna integrate with the Defense Department called thunder Forge. Anyway, this was on the CNBC website, and this is one of the victories, you know, being trumpeted. Now it's not you know, you didn't hear it in the State of the Union address. I didn't listen to the whole thing, so I don't think it was mentioned.
Well, no, and even if we go to the highlights of the State of the Union, right, I mean, there's a lot of stuff going on there. He's again talking about eggs, he's talking about how you know, look, we're going to get this Golden Dome. So obviously there's some potential spending when it comes to I mean, clearly, even though we're going to doze the hell out of the government, we're definitely not going to cut back on the military spending.
It seems like to me or maybe just well, well, but go ahead.
What's going on with the military spending is they are playing to cut eight percent and that's a big number, you know, eight percent of the defense budget.
And that's what some of the links I sent you were.
About, right, And I know initially like if all you do is follow the Twitter feeds, you just hear about the cuts.
And that sounds like a huge clallback.
I mean, that would be wonderful, you know, to cut eight percent I think in my opinion of the defense budget. And I've seen stories where, you know, some of these really horrible boondoggle programs like the literal literal I I can't even pronounce it correctly, but it's a Navy ship that billions of dollars been wasted, and even the Navy Department has said they don't really want to continue this program,
but you know, it helps certain congressional districts. And then there's there's must know, many many programs like this, But that's just one example.
Yeah, you have that fighter jet, right, the fighter jet and the fighter jet. Everybody brings that up. You and I talked about the submarine programs. I haven't seen anything about that lately.
Well, that's that's not something to be cut, right. The only problem with this it's not really going well. The submarines aren't being built, you know, the program is years behind.
Well see that's the thing, right, Hold on just a second. I want to get this in perspective because that's the problem here where people talk about they announce this stuff, We're gonna do this big thing. We're gonna you know, like everybody's asking me lately, what about space Force? How much money is being put into space Force? Nobody knows right or it seems.
Like I want to mention that too.
So they're cutting eight percent of the budget. And you mentioned the Dome. I didn't listen to this whole State of the Union has watched like twenty minutes to cut it off.
But you heard about the Golden Dome where he wants another.
Yeah, I want to talk about that too. So this eight percent cut, what's really happening? And I sent you a link where Pete Hagsith is that it's on the Defense Department website Defense dot gov. He's giving a video address to the Defense Department about well, you know about those cuts.
I'm gonna put that in the links at ocelly dot com and put that in the chat room, just get people to roll it back. They can always go in the live chat room even after the show, and I'll include it with the show notes. Yeah, but it's from depend excuse me, defense doc go of that website. So yeah, go ahead, Sorry, I just want to let people know.
Yeah, and they got a link to a JP Satilly link. He compiled a couple of stuff. His argument is that, look, there really is no defense cuts, and he's correct because what's happening is, yes, they're cutting eight percent, but overall they're playing to boost the overall defense budget. They're just eliminating, planning to eliminate, you know, some of the money being spent currently and reallocate it to other programs.
And one of the things the money's going.
To reallocate it is to what I mentioned, the scale AI thing which is announced today and what people don't know. And I've read there's a CNBC article, you know, and to me, you know, you read these things. To me, this's a lot of gibber jabber, you know, AI phrases like uh.
Glow, you know, just I don't know, you know, for the thunder Forge.
I mean, you just here all these phrases that you know, you have to go figure out what they really mean.
But what I was more interested in.
Yeah, they call these things new programs and whatnot, But we knew already that they were going to start investing in the AI stuff. It was going to be a
force multiplier. As a matter of fact, That's one of the things I said about this whole Doge thing with the cutting of the jobs, is that a lot of that had to be preparation for jobs that are going to be taken over by AI, right because you no longer need people to sit there and go through certain things if you can have sorting programs handled by the artificial intelligence, et cetera. And I mean, of course, there was the big news story about deep Seek and all that,
the Chinese thing that they slapped together real fast. And it's no wonder that Elon Musk is there because he's got his AI thing rolling, and who knows how that's gonna all go. I'm just saying there's a lot of confusion here because of what's announced versus what's really being done. Though Mike isn't there.
Well, I just want people to understand that, first of all, it's sort of an illusion that there's gonna be these As far as things stand now, there's gonna be these massive budget cuts overall, it's more like symbolic things being cut and then money being reallocated. And to me, this this uh Scale I I is a story about who benefits. So I went and looked up who I never heard of this company before? You know, who are the shareholders
of scale AI? And the biggest shareholders are Peter Thiel, h Amazon, Slat you know, which is Jeff Bezos, and Meta, which is Mark Zuckerberg.
Yeah. So what a surprise all of the biggest uh you know, social media people, that tech people that were all on the stage at the inauguration, Yeah, involved in this. What aren't you shocked, like or or you know that's sarcasm by the way. I mean, I'm not telling you that, Mike, I'm telling the listeners. God knows.
But right now, no, I'm not shocked. But people need to understand that.
I think they need to understand that, you know, this is who's benefiting. And then when you talk about the Iron Dome, so.
He called it a golden dome, golden, they.
Changed the name to gold. You're right, they changed the golden Dome.
Well, you know, it's Trump. He's got to have everything gold, you know, because it's it's an upgrade. But the Iron Dome is just fine for Israel, America gets the Golden Dome because we have to have the best, you know, Mike, So I'm sorry, go ahead.
But on the face of it, you know, as we're speaking at this point, there is no concrete plan or program. It's a executive order and a demand.
I guess you can say for them to study.
He's ordering exploring the issue, right and he's ordering going study.
See.
This is another thing people don't understand about these executive orders because the way they're talking about is it's like it's a decree. It's almost like a royal decree. Not necessarily when you read this stuff. I tried to explain that with the JFK thing, which you know, just quick side note. I know you're paying attention right a little bit to the JFK stuff, and even Jeff Morley and all those guys over there at JFK Facts, they're all going,
wait a minute, how come nothing's happening. And I'm going, guys, you are the people that should know that nothing is going to happen right away, because he puts out an order that says I want this done, I want this looked into, and we should do this as quickly as possible. But he doesn't nail anything down where he says, by this date, this has to get done. If you don't see Look, it's a pretty simple rule with government declarations. If you don't see specifics in that declaration, then you
won't see specifics in the actions. I mean, I think that's pretty simple. Or am I wrong about that?
Well, you know there's gonna be a congressional hearing on March the twenty first, right, and I don't know who the witnesses are going to be. But when they announced that hearing, uh, it's a lady. That's a congressional lady. That's Republican lady that's going to run it from Florida. I forget her.
Luna because the Luna.
Yeah, I watched her press conference and you could I first of all, she don't You can tell she doesn't really know that much about the issue because she said there had been multiple congressional investigations, and she referred to the Warrant Commission as one of those as a congressional investigation.
Right, which automatically it was correct because it was a special We all know it's the president's creation. He created this council. It's literally it's it.
Was designed to head off congressional investigation, right.
And that's the funny thing is that these new people, regardless of what their intent is or what because people are arguing are they going to cover it up or are they going to do it? First of all, they don't know what they're covering up, what they're looking for, or what's already been done.
You know.
It's pretty much like when Trump said, you know, during the Zelensky thing, where he says, and I'm not even going to get into that with you, because God knows, we'd be here for another hour. But the thing is when he said, well, look, I don't know the history of this and that, and that's only a couple of
years ago. The people that are making these statements and are supposedly in charge when it comes to getting out these files and when it comes to a lot of other things, do not know the history of what was already done, don't know what they're actually looking for, and they don't know what already exists because they're sitting there saying, oh, this will be the first time there's thousands of pages, and I'm going there's five million pages in the JFK
Records collection already and these people act as though they don't know that, because I don't think they do.
No, I don't think she right, Well, she's she. I mean it's interesting.
I mean I get the impression they're going to hold this hearing right, and they're going to have some sort of information about the autopsy because she referred to it. Yeah, and she also said that she believes the evidence shows that they're two gunman.
Well, that's kind of.
What evidence did she see? You know? See, here we go again, what evidence did she see? Even when they're saying they have new FBI documents, here's my question, how do they know what's new if they're not fully acquainted with what has already been released?
You see.
That's the thing about this. And why do I tie this all to the JFK thing, because I think it's an excellent example where you and I know the material very well, You and I might not know all of the current military spending, no matter how much you keep up with it or I keep up with it, it's impossible to know, really, right, a lot of these things without
a lot of exploration. Where we know, Look, there's a certain amount of the budget that goes to hardware, there's a certain amount of the budget that goes to, you know, supporting the families, that goes to you know, making sure our overseas bases are intact. This is what we have to pay to keep you know, certain outposts and cooperative training exercises going, which is another expense.
Right.
We don't necessarily know what's all of what's being allocated specifically to a lot of things, you and I as outsiders, right, But the people that work in the Pentagon, they in certain departments do know. And here's the thing. A lot of those people are being fired. There's a lot of turnover,
there's a lot of changes. I think it would be unreasonable and impossible for anybody who's coming out, whether a tech set or any of these people to make these sweeping declarations and actually be informed about what it is they're talking about. Now, maybe I'm wrong, Michael. I mean, you could correct me on this, because I could easily
stand corrected. But it seems to me as though, just like with the JFK thing, you've got people that are not necessarily well informed about what's already been done, what is ongoing, what has already been you know, say taking off the table, Right, So how is it possible that some of these sweeping, absolute declarations make any sense at this time, or is it just me?
Now they just got in there. It's not even been two full months, right.
I mean reasonable, no matter how you feel about this administration, right, no matter how you feel about the people that were appointed, the secretaries, the you know, deputy secretaries. I mean, you got Cash Pattel and then the other guy at the FBI, and people are complaining about him already, And I'm saying, there's no way that these people could be even fully prepared to address anything yet because they don't know what's
going on. Actually, they make these declarations that it was weaponized, that it was this, that it was but do they actually have the evidence in front of them? Have they had the ability to examine it? I don't think it's
humanly possible to have done all that just yet. No matter what your actual intent is, whether you're going in there to you know, oh, they're going in there to destroy it, they're going in there to make it great again, they don't even know how to evaluate what they have or don't have yet, Or maybe it's just me, am I wrong?
Now? That's I think a reasonable Do you think.
That's a reasonable way to look at this, right.
I mean, but if we look at the Kennedy case, Yeah, my impression is you tell me if I'm wrong.
But this is just mind pression, is that.
Maybe I don't know if they're going to release anything new or not, right, whether they release a lot. I mean, really they should just dump the files out and that'd
be done with it. But they're having these hearings, so whether they whether they release one file or all you know that's new, or all of them, all the ones they can right, no matter what, my impression is, they're going to have one or two days of hearings and they're going to make social media clips out of that and a couple of news bites and that'll be the
end of it. And they're going to probably say there's two gunmen, this lady will say some stuff I don't you know, and that's supposed to become a shopping shocking revelation. I guess it will be how it's spun, and that'll be the end of it. Well, that was what I think, and that's it. I think.
That's huh.
You know why you think this, Mike, Because we saw this already in twenty seventeen when they were supposed to just finally allow the stuff from the ARB to be released. Right, you remember what happened. You and I were in Dallas in twenty seventeen while it was happening, and it started happening before we went to Dallas. Remember it was like they started releasing stuff ahead of the date and it was coming out and it was a vail. Well, you and I were surprised even, or at least I was.
Maybe you weren't, but I was surprised that the National Archives even allowed this stuff to be accessible online. It was like, right away we could download it. Holy crap, that never happened before, right, It was kind of cool. And then they said, well, we can't release it all, and we're not going to release the majority of it. And what went on here is that what happened the news media grabbed a hold of these little fragmented pieces. They at that time said look, there's two shooters, there's
an FBI report. And then you and I literally took a look at the thing that was released that people made a big deal out of, and then they brought out who did they Wheelow Gerald Posner, The usual suspects to come out and go nothing to see here. This is all nonsense. And here's the sad part. Posner was right because they had this fragmented half a report from an FBI agent who heard a story, and you and I talked about it. There's no explaining who the source was.
You remember this, the two shooter thing, right, you do recall this.
I don't remember the two shooter thing.
Okay, well they did that talking about they did that back then there was if you look back, you'll find it. But you and I talked about it, and you could probably hear the if you go back in the Ocelli archives, it's probably still on the list. If not, I'll re release it because there was a lot of stuff I talked about regarding the document dump in twenty seventeen, and we talked about it, and you and I went to l Answer that year and I went on James Corbett
Show to talk about this. Anyway, the point is that they turned around and they did this, you know, half a hangout where there were these little fragmented pieces OGE.
We have to address it. And then, quite honestly, a bunch of people behind the scenes, and I don't know if you know this part myself included rallied people to Bother CNN to go get Jefferson Morley to bring him on, because that was not long after the whole Kavanaugh thing was coming around and Kavanaugh turned around and shot down the last part of Jeff Morley's case and said, no, you're not getting the Joe and Edese files, right. That was yeah, And that was the same guy you saw
crying about beer during his hearings. Just for everybody's notes. But anyway, don't care about that and not looking to re litigate it. I'm just saying reality is, we pestered the hell out of CNN. I gave I sent out
emails with the phone number and everything. Bother CNN tell them they need to get Jeff Morley on to have another point of view, and not just Gerald Posner coming out saying, well, you see, our society really wants a great explanation because a loser like Lee Harvey Oswald should have never been allowed to kill a great man like Kennedy, even though I can tell you that I don't even believe for a second that guy wrote his own book, and if you know his plagiarism, you know record out
there in public, you can see why I might say it, but anyway, put that all aside. They wheeled out positive because Boogliosi was dead, and they wanted to wheel out people that looked official, that were lawyers because Passe there's a lawyer too, don't forget. But they wanted to roll out legal people, just like every time now, whether it's you know, the actor that died recently, or it's the latest controversial shooting, who do they go get Michael Bodden
now all the time. Sometimes they used to contact cirah Weck, but he's passed away. The point is they bring out official people that are well known to defend the official story every time a semblance of something comes out that's slightly controversial. And what they had during twenty seventeen was a couple of fragmented pieces of effectively useless material. Yeah, there's an official FBI memo here stating that an FBI agent was told a story by a witness. The witness
has never identified. They have no idea what kind of person this was. It's simply a report from an FBI agent. And the fact is that FBI agent got the story from somebody that there was two shooters based on what they witnessed allegedly either in the autopsy room or in the plaza. And quite frankly, it wasn't even made clear where this witness witnessed whatever they did, and so it was this vague half a report, and the fact is
it was incomplete. So I pointed that out. And this is one of the things where the media, of course, Alex Jones went out with it. There's definitely been two shooters. The government admits it now, by my tiny changerine.
See you think this is what the lady, the congress lady was referring to.
Well, but the point is is that it's a very similar story and maybe the same thing, yeah, or it may be something different. But there's plenty of possibilities where an FBI agent could have taken a report from anybody, you know, who was either there or maybe heard something or was connected to somebody, or there were lots of phone calls. Lee Harvey Oswald was spotted alive the next
day at a bar, you know, all that stuff. Any of that could come out now and they could say, look, there's allegations that there was another shooter, there's allegations that
there was a conspiracy, there's allegations. They can take it and spin it any which way they want, and Alex Jones can scream, the government now admits conspiracy, but they won't tell you that, And then CNN can roll out somebody like Gerald Posner and have him come out and say, look, this is much ado about nothing, and here we go again. And you know, it's just that John F. Kennedy was an extraordinary human being and people want a reasonable explanation
as to how a loser could have killed him. And that's Gerald Poster in a nutshell. I mean, that's what case closed is. Right. Anyway, my point about all this isn't even the Kennedy assassination. My point is that once again we will have people that are not familiar with the material telling you what's in the material, right, and even when they were preparing for, you know, allegedly another release and everything else, Jeff Morley learned that the CIA
was giving crib notes to the major media. Anyhow, Okay, come on New York Post, come on different news outlets. Let's all sit down and the official CIA guy is going to explain it to all your reporters, because, in all fairness, your average reporter doesn't know what the hell's in the files, what's already known, the background of the case, etc. Right,
So here we go again. This is the same thing that's going on, is that people who are not well informed about the particulars and the nuances are going to do what They're going to make declarations and spin on behalf of the official story to make Trump look good. Trump's people will do that, and the news media will
do what they need to do for their agendas. I mean, let's be honest, right, I mean, isn't that what's going on with the military, with the military spending, because people throw out numbers and they'll turn around and flip a billion to a trillion and nobody cares, nobody notices because it's not been relevant. These people just like the whole Epstein file thing. Did you see that, by the way, recently Kim Bondi and all that.
Well, what had what I experienced was a friend of mine, someone I know, a friend of mine, was messaged me saying that I'm not I'm not. You know, this Epstein thing is something I never was. You know, I never got into I didn't just research it or anything.
I know what it was.
It's dead and I'm just like, well, this is kind of very strange. It was to care that he was killed in that prison, so you died in the prison, whatever happened.
You vaguely about the case, but didn't really know the ins and outs of the details. You hadn't studied it or followed it.
Well, I mean, I've listened to your show and some of the guests you had on it, and I remember reading a couple of articles, you know, a couple of years ago, and my question was how did he? To myself, what I was interested in wondering was how did he get all this money? And it didn't really make sense to me how he was basically a nobody, a school teacher or something, and then overnight turned into you know, this giant financier investment person for all these rich people.
It didn't make any sense on the face of it. So well, he got in.
With the guy who had Lane Bryant and what was yeah these secrets? Yeah? How Well, to my knowledge, Mike, he was a hedge fund guy. And I don't know how you get into being a hedge fund guy, but he got into being a hedge fund guy at one point. So he was like a money manager who you know again lucked into some heavy clients and got in. You know, I don't know how that world works. Quite frankly, you would have more of a personal idea about how this works.
And the fact that you're saying it doesn't make sense almost bothers me, because I would think you might know how somebody might luck into a couple of you know, high priced clients. Maybe I mean maybe you didn't have them, but you might know how somebody ends up with, Like I don't know some of Bill Gates's money to manage or whatever, you know what I mean, Somebody's got to run that stuff. And it's not Bill Gates himself always, right,
So somebody's got or Bloomberg. Bloomberg's another guy, right, I mean, he can't possibly manage all of his hundreds of millions of dollars that are coming in constantly. He's got to have people that do it right. So if somebody's a standout, if they do really well, well, maybe they get entrusted with more and more. I mean it's not just rock
stars who get built. I mean, Bernie Madoff didn't just have a stable full of dumb rock stars and athletes that didn't know how to handle their money, right, So you end up with a high profile client who may be built a business, but afterwards doesn't you know, quite figure out how to invest or whatever, because they know how to run their grocery chain or you know, like the Sam Walton's family right ever, after their family has plenty of an inheritance there, but somebody had to manage
that money. And not every one of those people who inherited some of that, you know, Walmart Fortune, knew what to do with it. So they find somebody to manage their money to make their investments. And Epstein was one of these guys. I mean, that's what I understand. Maybe maybe there's more to it, and people have lots of allegations, you know, like as in maybe he was an intelligence asset and all that. And I'm not saying that I
know exactly what to and what not to believe. They're I'm not an Epstein expert, you know, but it just seems to me like if you get in certain ways.
Oh yeah, I just was like the the Epstein you know meme or whatever.
Yeah, in the popular imagination.
This friend of mine a few weeks ago told me all that scene files are going to.
Come out right, well, because that was an announcement being made by the Trump administration for a while and it was a popularly shared thing. He's finally see. That's the thing is, they got this idea that Trump is going to make everything transparent in the government. He's going to reveal all of the elitists that he's been doing.
Battle right right, Well, yeah, exactly.
And a friend of mine was saying, well, he hopes this will finally expose Bill Clinton, right, and he and I said, I replied to it about the argument.
I just replied to it, and I said, well.
I don't I said something like, it's possible that he had a connection with an intelligence agency.
I don't know that. But the Maxwell lady.
Right, Galler Maxwell, who is in prison, Yeah.
Her father was connected with it with the Massad because he was a heavy supporter of Israel.
And also British intelligence, right right.
But I just replied to him and said, it's possible he was connected to Massad, you know. And I said, if that's true, it will never come out. And the person replied to me and he said, this is what he said to me. He doesn't know what Massade is, okay, but he just wants the pedophiles exposed.
And Bill Clinton exposed and he hs Bill Clinton, well.
Right, and that was that's the last time. I didn't have any more conversation with it. And then a few days after this conversation, the file was given to some far right so called the file MAGA influencers, and then they were disappointed in the file and said, there's nothing new in it.
So the whole thing sounds like it's a big dud. There is nothing new in it. I examined what I could examine, and what I see is, you know, some more redacted pages with a lot of names missing. Uh, you know again Nick Bryant, who had released basically part of his contact book from before Epstein's you know client list they keep calling it. But either way, a bunch of contacts had already been released. It's a big nothing.
Well, and that's trouble in for a lot of reasons. But does that mean that's what's gonna happen the Kennedy.
Thing, Well, I don't know. See, this is the thing is when you have these pronouncements again. You know, Trump makes these grand pronouncements in his administration. His guys make these grand pronouncements, but they're not well informed. They don't even know what it is they're saying is great in coming out. That's why I said, when they're saying to us, oh, well, suddenly we have three thousand new FBI pages, How do
they know what's new? They don't. So And I'm not even saying this as somebody who's like, you know, oh, you're trying to tear down Trump, because some people have broken it down to this US and them teams mentality where it's either you're on team Trump or you're not right.
And if you're on team Trump, he's doing you know, God's God's work, you know what I mean, Like literally and even said that during this you know, during this joint addressed to Congress that he survived the assassination attempt. When he was addressing that and the family of that firefighter who was shot to death at in Pennsylvania, right, he had the family there and he said, God had me survive so I could come and make sure to make America great again. You know, it reminds me of
the Blues Brothers. I'm on a mission from God. You know remember that movie. Oh yeah, it's a good movie. But the thing is you're either on team Trump or you're not right. So of course he's going to expose all the pedophiles. They've been saying this, whether it's Q or any of the these other groups for years, that he's gonna bust everybody because he's not one of them,
you see. And if you point out that he knew Epstein, which he did, and if you point out that he's photographed with Epstein and they were at parties together and stuff like that, they got one hundred different excuses for it.
Because that's true. That's not conspiracy theory. By the way, if you remember that guy I had on the show, Sam Spadino, the comedian, you know, was holding up pictures of Trump and Epstein at his rally, and that's why the Secret Service dragged him out and kind of beat him up a little.
You know.
Do you remember that guy on my show?
Yeah, I didn't know that happened to him.
Yeah, that was the guy who you know the second time that they went and dragged him out, he was going, dad, Dad, Dad. I don't know why he was doing that. I still couldn't get a clear explanation, but they were dragging him out of there and he was doing that. He was holding up a picture of Trump standing next to Epstein
at a party. You've seen those pictures, right, yeah, sure in the videos like the video where they're actually loggling girls and okay, well, but the thing is, you say, then, well, Trump went to the island, he got on the jet. Oh he was only on there twice, and Bill Clinton was there eighty seven times, you know whatever. And the thing is, there's also been a falsified records put out there that people shared. They said it was a wat.
Well, whatever you think of Clinton, there's no history of him molesting young girls.
Not young girls, No, it's usually grown women. But people would say, this is the history, this is the proof. You know, why was he going there? Why was various
media figures going there? Why were you know, all these famous actors, the guy who ran house to go, Kevin Spacey, right, who also got himself in trouble with the whole thing, and then all those charges were dropped against him if you remember he was supposedly, you know, trying to pick up underage guys, right, Kevin Spacey or why is it that it is a case Kirk was on the plane. Epstein was grabbing people from the media influential politicians of all kinds and bringing them on his private jet to
you know, Epstein Island, his private island. Some people call it Lolita Island. Some people call it rape Island. Right, It's a whole dirty subject, and they've been saying for years Trump's gonna expose it. Trump's gonna expose it. And Trump has even made weird references to it. Right, I don't believe that guy was committed suicide all of a sudden, the cameras didn't work. He even said that during one of his rallies. Right, So, I mean, I'm just saying
it's a whole weird thing. But at the end of the day, does Trump or any of his people really know what they should be looking for, whether it's in the Epstein files, the Kennedy files, or at the military, you know, at the Pentagon, do they know? I mean, do you trust? I mean, I don't know. I never really watched Pete Hegsett's analysis of the military on TV, but it seems to me as though, you know, he
was right wing, not well informed. So if he's going in there with that, and he's already mister expert because he served in the military and all that, my question is does he even know what he's looking for? You know, which is also my question with Elon Musk. Does he know what he's looking for when he's trying to find waste? Does he know what waste would actually look like? Does he know?
Right?
I mean, are these not fair questions?
Well?
They're not if you're if you're not on Team Trump, and even if you are, I don't think you're allowed to ask these questions. You know, Mike, you're either with them or against him. You know, it's like the Sith lords. You are either with us or you are against us, Young Skywalker, you know what I mean? That's all there is. Would they speaking absolutely well?
I wonder, like the way they did the Epstein did, if it's just like these are like distractions, Well, of course, it doesn't even matter if it flops or doesn't flop. It doesn't even matter. You just go onto the next one.
But that's the thing, is that with the rate at which these things are being presented, and the clash with you know, you know, the guy from Ukraine, and with the tariffs from Canada, and with the you know, the different pronouncements about we're gonna do this, and now I've made English our official language. All these things keep happening,
and they're happening so quickly. It reminds me of what Steve Bannon said many times, right, which is, remember this whole thing, We're gonna flood the zone with just constant barrages of things going on so that the media can't catch up and our opponents can't catch up to what's happening.
Now.
The thing is, it's just a matter of all this crap is going on, and nobody is asking the real question, which is with all of this chaos, with all these pronouncements, with all these alleged investigations, plus don't forget a lot of people probably have the mass deportations are supposed to to be happening. They started to happen, right, and international deals are being struck. China got ten percent of a tariff. Well now Canada and Mexico got twenty five percent tariffs
going on. We're gonna feel the effects of that. Eventually. The stock market took a piss. I mean, I don't even know what to say about where the market went, which I was gonna ask you about, Okay, but nonetheless, we don't have time to breathe or catch up on this in my mind, and obviously that's being done intentionally. But the real question is, if all of this is going on on the surface and a lot of it is amounting to nothing, what is the real thing that's
actually happening going on? I mean, are we now striking a real estate deal in Gaza? Is that going to be the thing? Also, he's dead serious about we're gonna take Greenland one way or another. So I don't know if you know that, but in the address he said that as well. Did you catch that part?
Now?
I turned it off after twenty minutes He's talking about Greenland and yet yeah.
Fair enough is see, this is what I'm saying, is that there's so much going on, okay, you know, and he's like in the Democrats are standing there against us, but you know what, they need to get with the program and make make America great again. I'm going to revoke the Chips Act, and of course I want to back police, but I pardoned the January sixth people because that was an atrocity. Yeah, let me just go to the highlight here. I know I have a highlight kind
of cueued up. No, I don't have the audio, but I have the I have the situation here where he's talking about it. Yeah, the Golden Dome, and I mean, these are things he just did in this hour and forty minutes, which is one of the longest presidential Well you got.
To really be Yeah, it'sn't sit there for an hour and forty minutes. Listen to this an any politician. Yeah, yet to be almost out of your mind.
Yeah, tell me about it. Why do you think I'm a little crazy lately?
Trump?
Trump on Greenland listen quote.
I don't care hear the about that's a long time do hear anyone talking.
But Mike, here's the thing. Look at you blowing it off after because you're being barraged with so much crap. But let me give you a couple of quotes. Trump on Greenland. Quote, We're going to get it one way or the other. Okay. I also have a message tonight for the incredible people of Greenland. This isn't quotes, mister Trump said, quote, we strongly support your right to determine your own future, and if you choose, we welcome you
into the United States of America. Mister Trump said the territory is important to US national security and that his administration is quote working with everybody involved to try and get it end quote quote. And I think we're going to get it one way or the other end quote. Mister Trump said, We're going to get it. This is in quotes again. We will keep you safe, we will make you rich, and together we will take Greenland to
high heights like you have never thought possible before. It's a very small population, but very very large piece of land and very very important for military security. End quote. Literally these are quotes from the man. I mean, I'm not making this stuff bup.
Well, Joe, one thing that's been running in my mind, and you're going to talk to Larry Yes about Ukraine.
But one thing that's in my mind.
And I plan on thinking about this, Uh yeah, taking time to think about this. But I know a year ago in the summer, I sent you some emails said some of the fact it's all over you know now. When I was writing that, I was referring to sort of the notion of rational debate or discourse United States and in the media, which is what you've been basically talking about.
But now, huh, yes, that's what I've been saying for a while now, Is that that I.
Was referring to in the summer and emotionally thinking, well, what is the point of me or anyone you talking.
About this stuff on that.
You know, when we're in the media, we're in business of former media, when you know the culture we have is going down the toilet like this. But now since Trump's been in office, you've heard of this Greenland thing, and then you know, the tensions have increased.
It's pretty wild.
Do you think about the tensions Geopolitical tensions have been increased between the United States, Canada, Mexico with the terriffs, now Greenland.
Last night again is Europe?
You know, advanced when to Europe and basically was a musk went over to Europe first in campaign for the extreme far right in Germany, whose roots are with the head of the party.
Her father was.
A Nazi judge, and he's over there campaigning for them.
And Vance has weird idea. Wait a second, Vance has a lot of weird ideas. Anyway, he has this bizarre impression in his mind that the First Amendment applies to people across the planet, because he's sitting there saying, you know, I don't like how they treat free speech. Count well, that's very weird.
Look, what he's really talking about is what I was mentioning about this AI company, right, he's those tech guys that were supporting Trump that created vance Dance.
Is himself is the creation of Peter Thiel.
He's a product of the technocracy. Mike, this isn't democratical what you was talking about free speech.
He's not talking about the First Amendment that we thought of as children, uh, you know, in government school. He's talking about the rights of the technology companies to not be treated as a newspaper or a publication. No, I know, but that's that's what he's really talking about. They're right, and also the rights to collect everyone's data, privacy to yeah, not not to have Europeans protect the privacy of your of their citizens.
But that to him, that's eliminating free speech.
This is all convolution. But what I'm trying to say to you is that the entire discussion is so convoluted at this point that people somehow think that they have freedom of speech in other places, regardless of whether it's.
On rine or what.
The point I was wanted to make with you is that, as I said last year, I staid you, it's all over. Well, now I haven't. I'm trying to understand this.
This is all happening in real time.
You know that what also may be over certainly changing as America's role in the world and in and I had you know, in a sense it may be over to not not in the sense that the United States is about to collapse, but that.
You know, I've read a lot of years ago. I read a lot about the.
Founding fathers, and you know, I've read the writings and so forth, the Federalist papers, Jefferson's writings, and you know this stuff. And the idea that the United States would be that the founders are working for a quote more perfect union, Okay, okay, and in the greater Welfare is a phrase in the Constitution. Well, the idea of that all suggests that you're not perfect, but you're working towards it.
Right.
What Trump is doing is clearly he wants a more powerful country.
That would he always talk about.
And that's that's a that's much different from thinking that you're working towards a very perfect union. And and you know, the total abdication of you know, the post war orders. What has happened the past couple of weeks, you know, and we've been critics of it, but what's he going to replace it with? Nothing but pure power politics?
It looks like indeed, but I don't it's just.
I don't know.
I thought I had two is you have.
I've read a lot of Roman history, and you know Rome became an empire too, And I joked, I think I sent you this email.
I know I sent it to J. P. STILLI I think it sent to both of y'all.
When they chose vance Is to be the vice president, I made a joke that I don't remember the name of it, but there was a Roman emperor that they had one of the Roman empires died and there were two emperors, two people that want to be the emperor, and they basically bid on it with the Practorian guard, and the highest bidder got the position.
And I was made a joke that, well, that's the point we are now when JD.
Vance was chosen to be vice president, because it looked like it was a purchase done by some of these technology people. But one thing about the Roman history is that there is a rich literature the culture out of the Roman Republic in the Roman Empire two and spanned almost a thousand years.
But at some.
Point five hundred years of the Roman Empire, there is really no literature that we really have from it. It's just fragments. And I think it's because it just wasn't worth preserving. The culture just became junk or whatever.
And I.
Suspect that's where we're at now with the United the history of the United States.
Now absolutely true. What has happened here is that we have the collapse of what was an American empire that was able to exert its influence all across the planet, and now.
With something of a moral foundation, right, you know, right, there was this was real, some of it wasn't, but there was some basis to it.
Now there's none.
Right, there was some basic concept of you know, the greater good. We were at one time called the world's policemen, were the arbiters of encouraging other people to seek out their own freedom, et cetera, et cetera. And yeah, that's done. And now we have the dumbed down culture. And some people would say that the dumbing down of America. You remember that old phrase from the conservatives, right, Oh sure, yeah, very popular phrase and with good reason, because it was
happening in real time. Okay, I'm sorry, but it just was happening in real time. We were looking at people, you know, losing their ability to have anything but cognitive dissonance about their concepts. All we have is people going, you know what, I root for this color, I root for this party. I believe that anything that is against us is evil, and anything that is against us is obviously communist, foreign et cetera. And all there is is xenophobia and the idea that we have moral superiority, even
when morality is not part of the play. Again, the people that are in control, what do you have? You have a cacistocracy where they are some of the worst people that have been in control and continue to be in control.
Well maybe, you know, not everyone's good to agree with what you just said or what I was saying.
No, And but to those but the majority, it's wrong.
Maybe that we're being too pessimistic or wrong. I just say, well, you could just go and buy a Milania Trump theme coin.
Yeah, no, do it, do it up. But that's where we're at is, Yeah, buy your coins, have your you know, cryptocurrency, do your thing, root for your team, And that's the thing these guys don't just think that, you know, we're wrong. They figure that everything that's going on there is right. That's right. We should tell Canada where the hell to go, that's right. We can own Greenland, who cares, you know what,
We have military, we don't need to do this. We need to support Israel because they deserve it, and we can make a really great real estate deal in Israel and this is fine to them. And you know what, screw that British guy. You can tell them where to go because we're America. How dare you even say anything to Trump, like correct them about whether it was twenty fourteen or twenty fifteen when CRIMEA was taken. You know, hey,
screw that. He's right. And that's the thing. Mit is right, and Trump is right, and that's the thing, and the majority just agree with that, and anything other is bad. And I gotta tell you this is what I basically was complaining about for a long time, is that that we're going to get to this point. And people said, you're being ridiculous, just like you know, this Greenland thing. The reason why I pointed it out is because it was a joke, right, remember Mike, Oh, come on, he's kidding.
He's going to make Canada the fifty first state. He's kidding. No, he's serious. And this is where we're at. People think that those decrees, those executive orders are like kingly decrees. They think that that's the way it works. Whether it does or doesn't we could argue about. But the truth is, we know that they're supposed to pass laws, they're supposed to be money allocated by Congress, and whether they run a rubber stamp it or not, they have to at
least go through the process of rubber stamping it. But not according to these people. He said it, he's the boss. That's it. That's the way they think our government works because they have no idea about the framework that was there. They have no idea about you know, and it's all good. You don't need people that are informed. They can do
what they want and they'll drop stuff. And I guarantee you there are people that think those Epstein files were great, but you know a whole lot of people who actually read them, that didn't just retweet and say, hey, we want again. The people that actually read this stuff go, wait a minute, something's missing you and I reading the JFK files like I've been saying for the past couple of weeks on my show, I got people coming to me that are Trump supporters, saying, aren't you happy now
he released all the JFK stuff. They think it was done the moment he put pen to paper and signed his name and did that signing ceremony. Look it's done. You see what I'm saying here? Yeah, this is where we're at. Now. Could we do a standout thing? Could we be unique in this time of interesting times? I think we could, Mike, we could do something different, and we could try and inform people who want to be informed. But we got to recognize that that's not a big
audience at the moment. Which, by the way, what do you think about the twists and turns in the stock market? Just before we go, because I got to get to Larry, But I mean, truthfully, what do you think about where that's at and where our economy is heading just this year? Where do you think we're going to land on all this? And oh, by the way, he said he was going to get the egg. He spent time at the address talking about the egg prices, how they're going to fix that.
But don't worry, We inherited a big disaster from Biden. It's going to take a little effort, but don't worry. He's going to fix all of that too. But anyway, any any thoughts on them?
Oh, I think this is a call before the storm and the stock market went up twenty two years in a row.
Yep.
I don't think it's It's just I don't think it's going to do much this year one way or the other. I think it's just going up and down.
So we're not due for a massive correction.
We're just due for I hope, I hope. I mean, if i'm that's what's gonna happen.
But I'm thinking this is gonna have its ups and downs but basically go nowhere but eventually go splat.
So we're gonna have choppy seas for this.
Year, that's what I think.
But it's not really gonna crash, and it's not really gonna climb. It's just gonna dip and bounce and dip and bounce. That's what it is.
Hey, I'm just curious.
Yeah, but see, but there you go. And that's what we have is a lot of noise and I can't figure out which dog is being wagged or if there are you know how many tails the dog has, you know the old adage about wagging the dog instead of right where they would distract you with something else, so
you ignored a war. That's the only thing I'm actually concerned with is if we're actually going to step into something here where there will indeed be a war, if you notice, during that White House thing, and this is what I'll close on, because it's gonna bridge into Larry. During that White House thing, Zelenski tried to say to him and imperfect English, which of course you know, no
patience for that. It's not the guy's first language. And after all, he was, you know, a reality show TV guy was playing the piano with his penis not long ago, Zolensky,
that's true story. But the point is that that guy who was sitting there and is that war in his own country is trying to tell him that, look, I know you think you got oceans protecting you, mister president, but eventually this stuff, whatever goes on over in Europe that you think is not going to affect you directly, will eventually have influence over things that do affect you here. And that was one of the greatest things where you know, Trump was very mad and Dvance was very mad and
everybody got angry. How dare you disrespect us? When he was trying to say that eventually what goes on in Europe is going to affect you here. Whether you have a big ocean and you know there isn't planes directly flying over your head right now, eventually this will affect you. You have no right to tell us how we're gonna feel, because he said you'll feel the effect. You have no right to tell us how we feel in America. We made you into a tough guy, that whole thing. I'm
sure you saw it right. So the point is that I think that's relevant. And all Zelensky was trying to say is that, you know what, the world is a little smaller than it used to be, and indeed an ocean could logistically protect you from a lot of things. But eventually the destruction that is you know had in Europe does begin to affect the United States. Unless you think you're a complete island onto your own, which, regardless of what people think, I don't believe we are capable
of being a complete island on our own. Now other people think we are we have our own guess we have our own this, We have our own that we don't need anything else. But that being the case, why do we need the fifty first state of Canada? And why is it that we need Greenland so bad? Just asking? You know, I don't know where all this is going, Mike. That's the other thing. I don't know what the trajectory is.
I'm not sure about where our war footing is going to be a year from now, and I don't know if you have any ideas, but Ukraine may play a role in that, And I guess we're going to talk to Larry Hancock about it coming up.
Yeah, I'm looking forward to hear me too.
So anyway, Mike Wallstreet Window dot com. People can still sign up for their emails over there. But also I urge you to get the book The War State. It is relevant and might get more relevant. In fact, you might have to write an update on it coming up soon, okay, because it's going to have to go beyond the twentieth century. We're now a quarter century into this one, and boy is it getting interesting. But also why the Vietnam War? And hopefully we'll see another volume of that because that
was planned as a three volume set. I don't know if you're going to be writing more on that or if you're going to have other things to write about, but I can't wait to see it because your writing style makes it very relatable, digestible, and teaching you about a lot of sophisticated parts of history that might be ignored by a lot of other authors. So, Mike, anything you want to say in closing, I just again endorse your books. And you can see him on the sidebardochelly
dot com. And if you don't own it, you should own it. And I'll tell you what. If you already own it, get it as a gift for somebody else, because you know Mother's Day coming up, and I don't care the summers. Kids need to read these books if they're interested in history at all, especially American history. And Mike makes a lot.
Of the war State by Michael Swanson, explains the great national transformation that took place, and put the Kennedy presidency in the context of the times, and reveals never before published information about the Cuban missile crisis. President Kennedy would not have been assassinated if he had been president two hundred years ago. His assassination took place in the context of the Cold War and the rise of the national security state. Before World War II, the United States was
a continental republic. In the decade that followed, it became an imperial superpower. Generals such as Curtis LeMay not only wanted to invade Cuba, but knew that there were short range missiles on the island arn't with nuclear warheads that they could not destroy because they were on mobile launchers. Their invasion could have led to a Third World War, and they wanted to go to war anyway. The War State by Michael Swanson revealed why, and we'll show you
what President Kennedy was up against. For more information, The War State dot com, oh Chili dot Com.
In Denial The Secret Wars with air Strikes and Tanks by Larryhancock. Secret wars became a staple of US covert operations and are still happening today. Larryhancock's book In Denial rips the cover off many of them, using new files. It exposes things about.
The Bay of Pigs that no one has ever written about before. It shows why it really failed and why the United States did not earn from it. It also shows why other countries today are doing secret operations with more success. This is the book that puts what some want to deny into the light.
In Denial secret wars with air strikes and tanks Larryhancock. For more information, go to Larry Hyphen Handcock dot com. Pick up your copy of In Denial at Amazon dot com in digital or.
Physical force through conversation.
Yo, yo, this Doug Campbell, host of the Dallas Action podcast presented by Wall Street Window, and you are listening to the o'chill effect revelation through conversation.
Hey, hey, we are Hey, Hey we go hey we hey hey.
Go ahead call it the truth about the JFA assassination.
Right, well, what do you want to know? Dy Baker's wild claim Oswald girlfriends you knew Ruby and Barry handswer weapons. Really I imagine I could claim I have four wheels. It doesn't make me a wagon.
But okay, And trying to prevent the murder of John.
Kennedy come on now, has a.
Real effort on the day assassination claim.
Go to Amazon dot com enter Judith Baker in her own words. You'll get the results for a digital copy of a book where Walt Brown utilizes her own words and the known evidence in the case to get at well a different perspective. Let's say you can get Judithbary Baker in her own words from the author himself, signed if you request it by contacting doctor Brown at k I A S J F K at aol dot com. It's a fun book and it actually dissects the many, many fantastic claims Judith ary Baker in her own words.
Thank you for all the great information.
Episode of the Yes.
Wordy Honey Today?
Do you like history? Real history that you were never taught in schools? Why the Vietnam War Nuclear Bombs in nation Building in Southeast Asia by author Mike Swanson with new documentation never seen before that'll open your eyes to events that led up to this. Why the Vietnam War Nuclear Bombs in nation Building in Southeast Asia nineteen forty five through nineteen sixty one. Get your copy today at Amazon dot com. Why the Vietnam War by author Mike Swans.
Around Time of.
Canada, what's your name?
Around the Allia?
The last no Labs has a times come?
Why don't it's one time around? So you can will burn it on the.
No No.
No no, you've seen the farest.
Wandering one widing for the smallest.
Drunken sex in three districts alive with regulated the lakes up and don't do it. I've never been.
No hell hell he he he.
Man was sing final.
I got the said that Donna Way said, pop you I a soldan family company.
Now the vieus expressed by callers schools, there anyone else who happens to get on the air of Jelly dot com. You not necessarily reflect the US of Lly dot com or and we are not responsible for getting stupidity which might have issued.
Thank you.
Get ready.
The second segment of this Wednesday O'Kelly effect. And yeah, it's only the fifth day of March, but uh boy, a lot has gone on in the past couple of months. And in this segment slash hour, I have with me Larry Hancock, of course, is the author of many many books, and tonight I think I'm gonna have to mention creating chaos, okay, uh in denial, shadow warfare, surprise attack and why because I think all of these things either are currently or
will be relevant very very soon. We're gonna talk tonight about Ukraine, and this is one of those topics that always gets me in trouble, So why not let's do it with Larry. And I love you, Larry. I'm glad you're here. He takes up a lot of space on my bookshelf. And why you could learn for yourself by going to Larrydshhandcock dot com, follow his blog, buy his books. I recommend them all and I'll tell you one special recommendation one more time for the Oswald Puzzle, co authored
by David Boylan, and I'll tell you something. It is an extra special book. I love all of Larry's work, all of it. Okay, some I have more favorites than others. I gotta tell you Unidentified as a cool book, but Creating Chaos is one of my favorites. In addition to someone would have Talked, but of course that's a classic. But the Oswald Puzzle, this is an essential piece of reading for understanding Lee Harvey Oswald, the assassination of Kennedy JFK.
That is. And oh, by the way, maybe we'll touch on that before we're done, but maybe not, because we
got a lot to do here, Larry. You know, there is the concept of what's going on with the administration and all that, and I tried to address it with Mike as best I could, but I still stay by my stance, which is, how the hell do you even know how to evaluate what they may or may not release in this administration given you have no idea what they're informed about, came before, is currently available, could possibly be available, or even is relevant, no idea, And especially
with this group, how do you know what they're informed on and not? I don't know. I can't evaluate it, And I'm not even going to ask you a comment about it, because, hey, why not what happened in the White House the other day with Vladimir Zelensky and the President and you disrespected us. You're a tough guy. I don't understand. I don't know any of the history. I love that he admitted he has no idea about the history.
He has no idea what happened when he wasn't in office, so it doesn't matter because he's there to make a deal.
And that was an interesting stance to take, and Zelenski tried to explain to him, you know, eventually, you may feel some of this stuff going on in Europe over here, even though you have an ocean to defend you just saying and of course he has no right to tell us how we're meant to feel and etc. But man, I wonder if you wouldn't comment on that spectacle that went on there, tell us what you think of it, because the initial reactions from almost every listener I have
was that's a staged event that occurred for a reason. And I said, well, you know on some hands, yeah, absolutely true, because they set it up this way, this is what they've been doing. Here's your meeting with everybody
sitting down, then they go to two podiums. Except well, in this case, they skipped the podium press conference, didn't they because Zelensky left kind of unhappy and he didn't have He also didn't have I think you're back, Larry, maybe, but he didn't have a letter from King Charles delivered to him this time. He just had the problem with Zelensky and the White House meeting and then no post
conference press conference. But anyway, I wonder if you wouldn't comment on what happened in the White House first and then talk to us about what is happening and is gonna happen regarding Ukraine. Uh Oh, I may have lost Larry. He seems to be on, but let's check because I might have to go to a quick break here. All of a sudden, I'm reconnecting to Larry. Well, you know what I'm gonna do, guys, I'm gonna take a quick
break and get Larry Hancock back on. I was actually talking a little long just to sort of keep him in the loop there and make sure that he was still with us. But we may have lost Larry in the meantime. But I really do want to get his take on not only the White House, okay, but you know what occurred there and all, but I also want to get his take on what's going to happen, what is happening, the state of diplomacy, the state of the state regarding the US, and not just what Trump fed
us right, you know in Congress the other day. So yeah, we're going to get to all of that. We're going to get to all of that when I.
Come back to the bridge.
Yeah.
Yo.
This Doug Campbell, host of the Dallas Action podcast presented by Wall Street Window, and you are listening to the o'chill Effect Revelation through Conversation.
O'chilly dot com dot com Radio network. Do you like history, real history that you were never taught in schools? Why the Vietnam War Nuclear Bombs in nation Building in Southeast Asia.
By author Mike Swanson, with new documentation never seen before that'll open your eyes to events that led up to this. Why the Vietnam War Nuclear Bombs in Nation Building in Southeast Asia nineteen forty five through nineteen sixty one. Get your copy today at Amazon dot com. Why the Vietnam War by author Mike Swanson.
Governments, Thanks, governments, Thanks.
Fine, fine, Thanks the paper. I don't know what day talking about.
Oh no, don't know what that meaning on.
I don't know what they talk about. The government's thanks thanks, thanks, thanks, thanks tanks, Thanks fire by God, No, no.
And they don't know what they want to do.
Make it double fun people cleaning and change, change, change and armor.
The War State by Michael Swanson explains the great national transformation that took place and put the Kennedy presidency in the context of the times, and reveals never before published information about the Cuban missile crisis. President Kennedy would not have been assassinated if he had been president two hundred years ago. His assassination took place in the context of the Cold War and the rise of the national security state.
Before World War II, the United States was a continental republic. In the decade that followed, it became an imperial superpower. Generals such as Curtis LeMay not only wanted to invade Cuba, but knew that there were short range missiles on the island aren't with nuclear warheads that they could not destroy because they were on mobile launchers. Their invasion could have led to a Third World War, and they wanted to
go to war anyway. The War State by Michael Swanson reveals why, and we'll show you what President Kennedy was up against. For more information, the Warstate dot com.
Yeah, I get ready for it. Larry Hancock is back with us. We had a little technical issue there, but that's okay. I know he was listening to me talk about here we are the White House meeting, which was the sit down press conference before we get into the
podium driven press conference. Except the podium driven press conference never happened because well, you guys heard me already, enough out of me, Larry again, love the fact that you're on with me, and again Larrydashancock dot com go over there, because I know people skipped my commercials and went straight
to this part. So anyway, Larry, your impressions. First about the fact that, like I said, people's first reactions to me were, this is a staged event, this was some sort of puppet show put on just for the media, and indeed partially true. But then again, how true is it? Or maybe you want to go at it a different way. I trust you, Larry. First off, how you doing? And second, go ahead and tell us about this White House half a press conference that went on.
I'm doing fine, other than, like everybody else, at least in America, trying to live in a state of utter chaos. I don't think can probably be good for any of us mentally and physically, but otherwise generally speaking, other than that, if I totally isolated myself from the world, I would be fine. But yeah, Chuck, First of all, I think there is a very objective way to look at this, and that is compare what happened with what should have happened,
and what should have happened. As you said you alluded to it is, you know, you have a public press conference at the end of a meeting where there have been serious discussions behind closed doors and you've either reached agreements or you haven't. I mean, in many cases you don't reach certain agreements and you step back and you agree on a joint protocol on what can you can say to the world about what you did agree on and what you didn't And that happens all the time
in diplomatic meetings. You know, that's what we should have seen. What we saw and as you said, that should have been in front of the press in a podium type environment. That never occurs. You know that the two people are standing up and they're reading from a release. So and there's a typical anomalist one shouldn't have been that one.
Yeah.
One second, because there's been a typical pattern here, even when the British Prime Minister came, other world leaders have come. Just in these first six weeks, we've seen the sit down with the yellow chairs and people lined up on each side and there's sort of the press photo op. Then there's a second part. And even the British Prime Minister who came and brought the letter from King Charles right, he wrote a lovely letter. This is great. I was
making jokes. You know, maybe he's gonna fall in love again like you did with Kim Jong UN's letters. But I mean, nonetheless, here's your presentation, Oh, mister Trump, We're glad to meet with you, this and that, and then they go to let's talk and take questions from the press, really at the podiums where we have our flags behind us. Right, this has been the standard pressers that have been arranged
by the administration thus far. So we know there was a pattern break here because they didn't do the second part of it at all.
Right, they did not do the second part. And you never have a third party like Vance, you know. That's that makes no sense at all. You never have a third party in the diplomatics, you know, because these two people are speaking for their countries, you know. So there's no reason to have Vance, certainly, for no reason for a person like Trump to have Vance speaking, because Trump's
whole history, Trump speaks for himself. So the mere fact that Vance is there is again anomalous and suggesting something's being set up. So no, this was I think one of the things that drove it, and I think one of the things we're going to see throughout this is Trump's agenda is very different from all the other diplomatic meetings are going about on about Ukraine. It's that's why it's going to look different than all of those other meetings.
Trump's Trump has very clearly stated what he's focused on, and he is not focused on dealing with Russian aggression, and he refuses to acknowledge Russian aggression. Trump is totally focused on peace, and I hate to be I hate to be, you know, like conspiracy orient since we know we don't do that. But I have seen it positive that the reason Trump is so focused on peace is that he wants a legacy, and one of his legacies is that if a peace bringer, even if he has
to force it. And here's so we're talking piece. He is not talking what's happening in Ukraine.
But that's the thing is that how do you get to peace without facing the circumstance. See, that's the problem here as far as I'm concerned, I don't know about the history when I wasn't in office at that time. Doesn't matter. Wow, Okay, you're telling this guy doesn't matter, and you're telling him you're being a tough guy. You're being difficult about this, and he doesn't have the history and he's trying to say to him, look, you don't want to see I don't want to see spire. Even
mocked him, I don't want to see spire. And he's going, look, I would take a seaspire. But Putin doesn't stick to his agreements. At least that's what I heard Zelenski trying to say. Maybe I'm wrong here. I don't know, but I don't think he's looking for peace. He wants a deal, which is different than peace.
Now, you're exactly right, Jack, And I didn't say, but to him, Trump is how many he wrote the book right. Everything to Trump is a deal, right, and that means that nothing is relevant other than what goes on during the deal making. He cares about what's on the table, you know, he doesn't care about the history. He doesn't, which is again totally different than diplomacy, which has to consider history and it has to consider contacts, and it
has to consider promises and broken promises. And that's just totally foreign to Trump's way of thinking. And I think that's one of the things that keeps shocking Zelenski, and I think it did shock a lot of the other European leaders. Although they've come to realize what we're realizing now.
But Zelensky, you've got to you know, if you're Zelenski, how can you deal with the situation where the person you're talking to doesn't accept the fact that you've been invaded, that you've been brutalized, that genocide has been committed against you, and that the other party in all of this has never kept a promise in his history. Putin has never ever ever kept a promise that he's made. So Zelensky,
he put yourself in his position. How are you going to set down with this guy who says I don't care about any of that, you know, I just want a deal. Now he may have heard this, may he may have learned his lesson the hard way, but you can understand why it would be difficult, especially when you're speaking to someone like Trump, of like, what do we what's this dialogue? What are we really talking about? I thought I was here to talk about bringing peace and
you just want a deal. And you're not even give security guarantees? Right, you know, no, no diplomatic arrangement like this could occur without security detailed degree and you're not even going to talk about security. I don't blame Zelensky. He wasn't being disrespectful of the United States. He was totally at sea in dealing with Trump personally.
Well, and here's the difficult thing in my mind is that now you have to go down to brass tax here. Whether it's right or wrong, this is what Selinsky's confronted with now. So that's the only partner he's got that could even possibly say something to putin. Otherwise he's back to being on his own. It's almost pointless to involve the United States now. I mean, we have a cessation in military aid, right that's supposed to have stopped. I
believe I read today now it's officially stopped. So there goes that he's left with whoever is European allies are here, and I think Trump is going to take it as don't even work with Zelinsky, like he has really set him out on an island now of his own right or am I reading this wrong?
And well, I think the one thing that speaks there are two things that speaks to that Trump and the United States the American public don't have a realistic concept of what's going on in this war in Ukraine. Trump doesn't want to know about it. And doesn't really care about it, nor does vance the American public are not seeing it. The media is not covering the war. I mean there are bloggers and military websites where you can
see the war being really covered. You can see in Europe there are the media is covering the war from a you know, what's really happening on the front lines, what's really happening with weapons and ammunition, But that's not being covered in the US. In fact, every day I look at the US media, and the US media is repeating the Russian version of the war for whatever reason haven't quite figured out. And that's all media, you know, right left indifferent. None of the media is covering. Yeah,
they'll posts that Russia just took two small hamlets. They won't posts that the Ukrainian counter attacks took them back. So it always sounds like Russia is winning. So I guess one of the things that we're facing ears there are two wars in Ukraine that are going on, the one that's being covered in the United States and the one that Trump really doesn't even want to talk about,
and the one that's going on in Europe. And at least do see some media coverage of the fact that the Europeans are about to take this war on by themselves Macron and the French and the British, and now after the German elections, our understanding that they no longer are going to be able to reply rely on the US. And if you read today's news statements and about the meetings that are going on in Europe with now there's discussion of actually offering Francis nuclear umbrella to the rest
of Europe. There are new pledges of building new arms arments factory. Ukraine is about to not be reliant on the US. Now there's going to be about a four or five month gap where there is a stretch, but Ukraine is not going to be nearly as reliant on the US as it has been, or that Trump thinks it will be. He's obviously he thinks everything centers around the US, but that actually is not true.
Well, and here's the thing, just from a pragmatic standpoint, right, you'd have to say that eventually through attrition alone, Zelensky is stuck here without significant assistance from somebody.
Right, No, I wouldn't say that. I wouldn't say what Zelensky is stuck with is the is the the lines of combat where they are now. Zelensky and I think that is true. That is something I think that has to be. There's no way until Russia collapses financial, until it it's dragged down by a war economy, which has now fallen into a strictly a war economy. There's no way that Ukraine, with our support or without our support of the US or anybody, is going to retake the
twenty percent of territory it's lost. That's absolutely true. There's also no indication that there's going to be any break in the front lines or that Russia is going to suddenly move west at a great pace, which is not done for six months now. So that's what Zelensky has to face. To some extent, I would say, I had to say this, but you know, Trump is is right.
At some point in time, there has to be a negotiation accepting the fact that Russia, because of its size and its manpower, you know, claimed a certain amount of territory and you're which is now almost totally destroyed by the way, unfortunately, but you're going to have to deal with that. So to that extent, I would say yes, But to the thought that Zelenski or Ukraine is not going to be able to hold the fronts holding now
on they're doing a pretty good job at that. The much touted Russian winter advance did not happen.
Okay, you know what it is. I'm trying to voice what it is that I'm seeing here from the American adage, because the American attitude is pretty much, well, you know, to hell with them, we don't need to support them, and which I find strange because I've never seen this before, and I see an odd agreement with the Russian version of events, like you pointed out, all the media has gone there and you know, I said this months ago,
and people said, no, that's not true. You know, the left wing media is this way, and I'm like, no, no, they're all lining up to just parrot what is coming from Russia today. RTI. It might as well be Rtie feeding everybody. And people said, and in my media analysis is pretty damn good. I'm sorry, it just always is.
I can predict things, I can see trends that it seems as though it takes other people many months to accept or to recognize this is an absolute this is the way it's going, which is strange to me because you know, about two and a half three years ago when this all started, which I'm amazed that it's gone
on as long as it has. There was a very supportive for Ukraine, the people of Ukraine attitude among a whole lot of our media, our corporate media, even now, our alt media always went in Putin's pocket right away and they've stayed there. And it's about denocification, and it's about all these things that look, you know, just like the and I've been told that I was completely incorrect about Crimea really wanting to go to Russia and all of that, and again we're being told the same thing.
This is, you know, Russian people who want to rejoin the Russian Federation and they need to be able to do that. But again, Ukraine is only vulnerable in my mind, because they were convinced to let go of the nuclear weapons that they could have held onto some years ago, and I think that might have changed the equation. And everybody talks about, well, NATO's encroachment on Russia has been
the thing surrounding Russia. And I'm very confused because of this shifting narrative that's gone on here where it's like and I don't expect and people. Some people say, you know what it's because you think that Russia is still the Soviet Union. No, I don't think that it is a different thing. It is a totally different state. I've been into that, and I'm not going to go into analyzing Putin again because I've said what I got to
say there and I stand by it. This is a guy who figured out that organized crime was good enough to bring into the government because that would give him an infrastructure, and it's worked out well for him. Okay, the oligarchs and organized criminals are the same guys. It just is what it is, and it's not a bad strategy.
He's been very intelligent about this and he's held this together very well, very powerful, I mean again not trying to make moral judgments about it, Fairly intelligent, strategically all the way around. Great. But the thing is, I still see this as a larger nation preying upon a smaller one, and I don't see how they could sustain this. I'm amazed they sustained it as long as they have because just pragmatically, again, they're going to run out of man
power even if they have the resources. Manpower is down. A lot of the country has been destroyed. Not the capital city, but a lot of the country appears destroyed, depending on who's reporting you look at overseas, but in the American media not so much, not much at all really, except here we are. This is what we're faced with and here's the bottom line. So what am I to take from this there?
Well, I think what we take about it America generally, Europeans are much better at history than America is. They've had more of it, and they pay attention to it, and they've lived it, and we have never lived European history.
It puzzles me to think that anybody thinks that Eastern Europe was Russian, because Eastern Europe was a whole series of independent nations, small nations forever, and there was a Russian Empire and thee it overtook some territory, but most of the nations were talking about This only happened after World War Two, when when Stalin told his allies that basically, and this is literal paraphrasing, any place we occupy becomes Russia, and any place we occupy we will rule with our
political system, and that meant all of Eastern Europe. That's when all of these countries became Soviet Russia. As soon as they had a chance to leave Soviet the Soviet Union, they left. You know, that should tell you right there that you know, there were a lot of people that were not happy, you know that, Oh good, the Soviet Union collapsed, we can be independent again. That's what they wanted.
So those people that somehow think this was all Russian to begin, when eastern Ukraine was only Russian to the extent that Stalin settled it with Russians after the war to take advantage of the industrial capabilities of eastern Ukraine. And as you said earlier, what came out of that, you had a whole series of oligarchs in eastern Ukraine that were tied to Moscow, and when other parts of Ukraine decided they were mooring oriented towards Western culture. That's
generated a real power struggle. And so we've talked about that. I talked about that in Creating Chaos. I would defy anyone to read that book and counter the story that I'm just describing, because that is history. But we don't Europe knows all that. See, we don't know all that Europe knows all that Europe knows NATO as a military organization was never a threat to Russia. I mean, we're
talking about NATO. It's like even Trump were going, NATO is not a threat, it's not spending enough money, it's a military So it can't be that NATO was threatening Russia. That was never in the cards. The threat was the fact that democracy was threatening the Soviet Union and it's you know, Soviet states. And that goes all the way
back to something we talked about. This this democratic initiative that they came to fear so badly started under Ronald Reagan in nineteen eighty three with a program called NED which was funded and American money started going to fund democratic activities around the world, including Eastern Europe. Bush, the first Bush, reinvigorated that whole program in two thousand and two with his own democracy in Issie. That's not NATO was threatening Russian military, the US and NGOs funded by
the US. We're threatening you know, the oligarchs that were still in power and a lot of these nations. But again, the Europeans know all this that America does not know that and suffer something of a guilt complex about NATO, which I've never been understanding. Do you think the Soviet Union was ever really afraid of NATO? Was putin ever really afraid of NATO with the largest standing army in
the world. I don't think so. In any event, long winded answer to your question is that I think Europe has its own vision of the reality of what's happening there, and if you look there are you have to reach out for it. Because of this media issue and I sent you a couple of articles. There are media folks in Europe and some analysts in the US are that
are taking hard looks at the Russian economy. Well, let's fact that it's been turned into a totally war driven economy, right, and where real question is does food want to give that up?
Well, and here's the thing, Okay, from one side of it, it's you know, ken Russia sustain itself this way? And does it want to sustain itself this way? And in that case, if they withdraw from Ukraine, what's next? That would be my question. But this VOA article you sent me has the headline that asks a huge question that I think everybody should be asking here except the people that you know. I have taken the attitude of USA screw them? I mean really, that's what it comes down to.
Can Europe arm Ukraine now that the US has halted military aid? That is the question, ken, you know, because they weren't spending enough on NATO, according to Trump over and over again. Right, they're not they're not putting in enough money. So we're gonna, you know, we're not going to be involved in NATO now. Uh do they become our enemy anyway? That's a question for later. But can your armed Ukraine now that the US has done that's the idea?
Is that?
Is that an open question?
Oh?
It's it's definitely an open question. And and actually there there are two questions. Okay, one can they afford to do it? And the answer is yes, especially if they release all the Soviet Russian funds? Sorry I get trapped into that. I'm sorry. There's if they behave like that, then I tend to call them that. But can they release all the impounded Russian moneys? You bet they can afford to do that.
Uh.
They're building new factories, they're increasing their their weapons production. They're at a big, big deal for major deal for Ireland for artillery shells. Can they do that for themselves? The only thing that would stop them and gives them there's a period of risk of six to eight months, is if if Trump somehow managed to forbid and I'm not sure how he does this American companies to manufacture and sell weapons to be purchased for Ukraine. I'm not
talking about the US paying for them. I'm talking about our factories fulfilling orders. Canadian factories filling orders by the way, but our factories.
To you know, do that.
So does Europe have the money and are their sources to sustain Ukraine? Absolutely? Trump can get in the way if he's trying to force basically, I mean what he has done in the last forty eight hours is an attempt to force Ukraine to concede, concede something to putin. And that's you know, that's the the answer, as Zolensky would say, you know, when when Trump, if he managed
to not we're not talking about more money. We're literally stopping them from getting anti missile weapons and anti aircraft weapons. If we shut off the flow, including what's being ordered for them, it gives them some leverage. But that that's going to be his decision, and that's that would be the US deciding that we're not going to support someone that's under attack by an aggressor. If it goes that far, it's going to be a hard pull for Europe to
do by themselves. But yeah, they can do it within a year two years absolutely, Okay.
Can Zolensky survive that long.
With the lag?
Yeah, that that's the question, and and that that, you know, I think the answer and what we saw as of this afternoon, and this is real time stuff. I mean, you've almost got to be looking at it every five minutes in the right places. Zelensky has has basically knuckled under because he's he understands the stakes and now he's he's willing to come back to the US. He's willing
to discuss the mineral deals. If he's willing to discuss the mineral deals, and you know, that's the first step, then there are stuff out of Washington this afternoon saying if he apologizes and willing to discuss the mineral deals, then we'll probably stop, you know, withholding not just weapons but intelligence. Right, So that's why he is going to concede.
That, Yeah, Because that's the other key announcement is that Trump directed you know, is national security people to tell Britain to stop sharing intelligence with Ukraine.
Right.
That was another big thing today, wasn't it.
That was one of the three big things that to relate Ukraine. The other big thing from a couple of days ago, as Trump has ordered all of our basically cyber warfare to regard Russia as safe, so we're to lay off any attempts to deal with I mean, it's insane, but we won't even go there. But yes, the two big things that happened within the last forty hours. We will not deliveries of stuff that had actually been ordered
and paid for it. And this is Trump stopping things that had been ordered, contracts signed, and Congress had appropriated money for. And then he also cut off the intelligence, although that's not as big a deal because the Ukraine gets much of its intelligence from NATO, not simply the US.
Well, I got a say that I am not surprised at all that Trump would stiff somebody on something that was already ordered and paid for because you know, go back to the casino business that happened there too. But pay no attention to that because I'm just an anti Trump guy and I'm a jerk. But the thing is, you know, I'm saying that with all sarcasm attact. You know, it's just I wonder where this leaves us though, I mean, is this is this really where we're going? So Zelenski's
gonna knuckle under. He's going to apologize for allegedly insulting the United States or Trump or the administration or whatever. And now he's going to give up mineral rights to the US and order for US to continue to provide him with something. And yet he's got to submit anyway to Russia.
Right, Yeah, I think I can't see myself visualizing and and and Putin is going to drop back to he's going to and I got to get this point in. I wish you'd post. Every time I think about it, it irks me. But this is going to be basically, we're going to abandon all of our foreign policy back from to the point of Kennedy's speech in Berlin at the Brandenburg Gate, a speech about defending liberty wherever an aggressor attacks. Uh, this is over because we are going
to force a peace settlement with an aggressor. We're essentially going to take the side of the aggressor where there's no doubt that there was an aggressor here. If you don't see that, then you just haven't you haven't been part of it. But so that that's going to happen, I think pragmatically speaking now, and Zelensky's going to probably end up giving up the don boss and Russia is going to take that, and then Russia is going to reset to rearming itself and going back to active measures.
And you and I have talked about this, Chuck, this actually was kind of anomaly. Putin is really good at active measures and political warfare, you know, buying politicians using Russian money to undercut foreign elections, as he has recently in a Romania and a couple of other countries. He'll fall back to doing that. It'll be a cycle, and
he's gone through these cycles. He went through this cycle with Georgia, and it's an old story of basically, you do active measures and political warfare, and if you've got a you know, some Russian speaker speakers somewhere, eventually you get to the point where you declare that you have to support them militarily because they're being harassed or whatever. It'll it'll be the same cycle and the net result I think will be Ukraine just literally losing twenty percent
of its territory out and Russia. The interesting thing about that is what Russia will do is inherent and erit a you know, eastern Ukraine, which is in a sad state. So one of the things to look for this is a prediction what you might see out of this negotiated settlement if Trump pushes it, actually a fund where the United States joins in and forces Ukrainian money to go to rebuild Russian territory.
Wow. Wow, I mean, so they're going to rebuild the part of Ukraine that was destroyed by Russia taking it.
Yeah, yep, absolutely because Russia it can't. Russia in no way can afford to do that. And so to make itself look good and to make the quote unquote peace settlement look good, you're going to You're gonna have to have money to do that, all right. So where's the money going to come from. You can either you can either take some of the money that's been impounded, you know, from sanctions, and say well, we're going to split this. We'll give it to both parties. We won't just give
it to Ukraine, who's the victim. We'll give it to Russia as well, or we could. I kind of hope Zelensky signs the mineral deal quickly, because otherwise I would not be surprised to see Trump forcing some of that money to go to Russia as part of a settlement. I mean, Trump really wants a settlement that looks good to Russia.
Wow. I mean, I'm just I'm stunned by this idea and what's happening here. I mean I almost you know, I was almost as stunned when I saw Vattelli Klitschko was the mayor of Kiev.
You know, uh, what's going to stun you really? I mean we three days ago, we had Pravda publish a headline article that said it was happy to see the American foreign policy was now in line with Russian foreign policy. I mean, that was headline. I don't know how many Americans have seen it, but that's what they that's what
they anticipate, that's what they expect. That's that's what they expect from Trump and to something to some that's sustained by saying, oh, we should be there's no reason we shouldn't be friends with Russia, and it's economical and we want them back in the G seven, you know, we want to we want to reset this all where they're they're you know, and we could reset back to the point before this all started, and then it will go through that same cycle again.
Wow. I mean I would have never expected this, you know, But then again I did kind of expect it. And I'll tell you why, because you know, they told oh, that was all fake. Trump was never on the side of Russia. But when did he deviate from normalizing relations with Vladimir Putin? No matter what. And I'm not saying that the ideas we should have remained, you know, at odds with him at all times on all things. But the idea that, like you said, siding with an aggressor.
And there are people that realistically and with fully open eyes argue that Russia was not the aggressor here, you know, that Ukraine and attacking people and having a Nazi brigade and this and that, and.
I just thought that to one extent, Paul, I'll push that back. Let's let's be totally factual. Go ahead, let's step away from the ideology. Let's go back to the video tape. Let's go back to what we watched these people maybe didn't watch this live. We watched live for eight months of Putin massing forces and saying that he would never invade. Okay, we watched that, well heard that. Okay,
then they invaded. But they didn't just invade. We had newspeople on the streets of the Russians coming through and literally you know, killing people, terrorizing people, rape, plunder, genocide. That this wasn't just a march across the border, and everybody welcomed us. It was the most brutal invasion that you toss away all the politics. Let's just look at what happened to people with Russian troops crossing the border.
Ukraine did not cross anybody's border. Russian troops crossed the border, you know, headed for Kiev, headed toward Kharkov.
Right.
We all saw this up close and personal. We saw the bodies. So how anyone can say at this point in time they are literally and I'll say it, they're in denial because we've seen it. If either they didn't see it or they refused to look at.
It, well again, it's a refusal to look because of an idealistic ide you know, and not idealistic ideology. Excuse me, because of an ideology that guides that that's the way it is, you know, And I'm just again, I don't know what this means except that, like you said, and what's funny is immediately the liberal reaction within minutes, a lot of liberal bloggers went out there and said, we have just what witnessed the destruction of basically US policy
for the past fifty years. They were saying, and what you said is no, it's more like sixty something.
Yeah, yeah, the way I would put it. Let's put it this, Okay, So if you really want to put in the history, that enough history. The point being, there was a point in time where Americans were seen as about nothing but money, nothing but themselves, and the term ugly American. When I was growing up, ugly American was a common description of Americans overseas. They threw around their money, they did business deals. Everybody knew that they were only there for, you know, to get what they could make
out of the business deals. That was true certainly in Latin America, but in other places in Asia as well. It was the age of the ugly.
Americans, entitled greedy, overstepping, rude. Absolutely regarding any other cultures other than their own, which they didn't really have a culture, et cetera, et cetera. Yeah, that's the ugly American.
Yeah, and that was the legacy of World War Two. We felt we deserved it. We saved the world. Okay, hey, it's only fair. It's our turn. And I think that's what we're returning to. We're not. We're returning to, Well, people do business with us. Yeah, they'll do business, but they will try like it's cash up front. You know, we understand these guys are deal makers and and you know that's what they're about. They're you know, morality, ethics, idealism is not in the game. Let's look at the cards,
you know, make them show their cards first. So what we will have lost, I don't think is we will have lost a certain amount of trust. So I wouldn't go over I wouldn't go over bored, but certainly, certainly the fact that anyone could trust us if we just accepted the fact that basically the big guy wins, which is what Trump keeps saying, Literally, the big guy wins. You need to recognize that. You need to deal with it.
The people have the most money, the most power, wind you just need to step in line and follow along with him, which was the classic ugly American thing. So you call that America first. That that's sounds better, okay, And that's what we'll call it, you know, back in the day when I was growing up. It's because you know, what is good for Detroit and Chevrolet is good for the world will be you know what's good for America, it's good for that's we just we've entered a new mode.
That's and.
That's the world is going to have interesting thing. The world's pretty quick. It's going to see that and react to it, which is what we're seeing in Europe right now. And they're gonna understand this. And partnering will be in terms of business deals, it won't be in terms of alliances.
Well, but here's the other thing to remember, and I always keep this in my mind. You know, the street level, Larry, You know me, I've always got to go to the unrefined street level on this. And here's the thing. The big bad guy who is out there. Yeah, he's feared, nobody wants to mess with him. Of course people will make business deals with him, and yeah, they won't trust him, and they'll handle him just right and say the right
things to his face. But here's the problem. Eventually, eventually somebody figures out, you know what, if I bust the big man in his kneecaps and knock him down, I can be the big man next.
That's the thing.
I'm just saying this.
China is just ready and waiting to do that. Do you read the Chinese statement today about the tariffs.
That's where I'm going with it. Yeah, that event.
Whatever kind of war America wants.
Yeah, that's the thing about China is that they've spent all this time building up this economic engine which is not purely communist, no matter what people tell you. Okay, it is influenced and run by and absolutely engorged as far as the Communist Party of China goes, but it is not a communist machine. It is a blended machine that is pretty efficient, looks like to me. And I don't know that we're prepared to really start to face that down if we become just the big guy who
is waiting to get kneecapped. I'm just saying, you know, and I think that's what Zelensky was trying to say. It is broken English, is that you know eventually, I mean because you caught that part of it. I'm sure you analyze this a bit. The meeting, right when he said, you know you're gonna feel this influence, and Trump jumped to the wrong part of the statement, which is, you have no right to tell us what we feel. It's
not about what we feel. What he was trying to tell you is that eventually you're gonna understand this is going to change things for you. You get it, And I think Zelenski was trying to tell him that. And I know right now I'm gonna get ugly emails about how dare you and don't you understand?
What?
Are you some kind of anti American? Now I'm just looking at it from a realistic standpoint, okay, which is, if you want to be the guy who's only got the big gun, you can do that. But most people will adhere to it and they'll back down.
You know what.
That's the big guy, that's the big gun. I'm gonna keep my head down and yeah, I'll make business deals like you said, But eventually it also grows a small population that goes we can take that big sucker out.
And that's the difference, Chuck, that Europeans understand that Europeans have been doing. That is diplomacy. Diplomacy. Go back to Machiavelli that they understand diplomacy because they've been lots and lots of small states interacting with each other for centuries. Trump doesn't have that background. He just doesn't think that. And to a large extent, the US, other than are the diplomatic core that we used to have, you know, doesn't think that way either. That's just us. It's a
different way of thinking. And and the pushback is, no, we're not going to listen to you. We're the big guy. What could you have to tell us about?
And the.
Mackey Avelli has a lot to tell you about, you know, and how states interact with each other. And it's you know, it's power. It's not just economics and dealing.
Well, that's the thing, you know.
And to look at it from a really truly well nuanced and intelligent point of view is to understand this. Uh, the culture that produced whoever and whatever suns Su really was understands this very well as well. And I think Americans would do themselves a whole lot of favors by trying to internalize the lessons within Sunsu and the art of war because it's not just about war per se.
Oh no, it's it's yeah, none of this is about war. I mean again, that's the whole difference chess and checkers thing, you know that we keep talking about it. You know, No, it's not all about war. It's it's about power. It's about manipulation of power, and power is not just military. Chin China understands. It's fascinating that China's big initiative around the road with their you know, their new road programs is all about extending foreign aid to acquire influence and power.
And of course what we're going to do is close down usaid. However you feel about that? The what I saw today, it's like, well, how can we have to We have not to spend money. We don't have money to throw away like that overseas. Okay, no, I guess we don't. But are the Chinese stupid?
Then?
Are the Chinese? You know, are they just really dumb to realize you know, they've got economic problems too? Why are they throwing away money around the world? You need to ask yourself. That's always the question. If the other guy looks to be stupid, is he really or did you miss something.
Right, And that's the problem I have with the people that say, you know what, it's a ways to do this. Okay, maybe so, But on the other hand, you're missing the rest of the point, which is, regardless of what you think of it, even if you don't care about, you know, wooden shoes in Holland, okay or whatever, the point is that this buys you other things. You know, Like I've said before, you know, and we have bought ourselves plenty, and I don't understand that, you know, over time we've
had this, you know, two hundred years of history. A it's real long, two hundred three, let's call it three hundred even three hundred years of history, even though I'm being generous. Other places that have had empires come and go and have risen and fallen and have now built other modern engines do seem to have a slightly different
philosophical bent here. And I don't think that anybody would claim that the Chinese are foolish, that their government is foolish, that their business people are foolish, that that entire machine there, integrated machine. Again, not as communists as some people think, but definitely not capitalist or whatever either. It's a whole blended system there. It's not doing things out of the goodness of its heart, is all I'm saying. And there might be some intelligence there in some of the strategies
that we are now going to abandon. And I think this is a prime example. I mean, what is and what is the end result here giving up twenty percent of Ukraine in order to secure peace. I have a bad feeling that that's not going to work out either for the long term. In the short run, it will put an end to things and allow many people to declare victories here.
Right, everybody except so might get President Trump a Nobel prize. I doubt it, but it could could very clear that he wants that. But that's a that's a rather limited outcome in terms of what's in the best hinters for everybody else.
Right, So, anyway, Larry, I know I've taken you, you know, a little over the hour here. In conclusion, what could we say to the audience here as far as what's coming? I mean, do you think it is just as predictable as that we're going to see Zelenski return, apologize He's going to give up his mineral rights and secure peace and then Trump will declare victory and that'll be that. Of course he's now the peace president.
Yeah, I think it. Unfortunately it is that simple because we let it. And by the way, I will I will be the first to say that. You know, the Biden administration takes a lot of blame for all of this because this never should have happened, rightfully, so, but it goes all the way back to the Obama The place to has stopped all of this was crimea in the first place. It was if you were going to you, if you're going to take a stand, you take a
stand then. And the way that we the way we respond, well, not just Obaba, Trump and Biden, the previous administrations all failed to respond to this, and maybe Biden has failed failed most dramatically to seize the moment and give Ukraine what it needed to actually retain its territory.
Uh.
If they had had what they needed uh two years ago when they began their offensive, they probably could have taken most of Ukraine back. We didn't give them what they needed when they needed it, which which means we left the plane field. So when you leave the plane field essentially, which we did, then this is what we end up with and pragmatically I saying, I think that would be my conclusion. I would you can you can
toss blame back over many administrations in many years. But the bottom line is what I really wish people would take more of is is to look at what the situation really is in Ukraine, the situation really is in Europe, not what's being covered in the American media because it's it's it's as good as repeating as you said earlier, the Russian line. I don't know why both sides, liberal
and conservative are both doing that, but they are. But if people really want to know what's going on they need, this is going to be resolved in Europe and Europe and Zelensky is they're going to give Trump what Trump needs to feel good and take his position and look good, and then they're going to go on with their own business. And we just to a large extent, that means we just exited the playing field totally, not just a little bit, but totally.
And the last thing I have to ask you, and then we'll close this out entirely, is that are we looking at a related or unrelated next situation? Because you and I both know I mean we're still dealing with the you know, the Palestinian thing, which is now going to be a real estate deal too. And I told people that that's what that is. I mean, and that's where he's looking at is. We're gonna just build it. We're going to own it. I don't know what he
means by owning it, but that's weird. But anyway, I think, Yeah, that's the way he's looking at it is, I'll just build a Trump tower there in a resort. Let's what casinos in Palestine. I mean, this is where he's at. Although don't let him put a casino there because he will run it into the ground. But the thing is a resort, you know. That's the way he's looking at that,
and that's where that's going. But you know, there are people that are still willing to go to war and still have these you know, principles of all sorts, and it could go in a lot of directions. I may have lost Larry again. I'm not sure Larry you there. Oh, I may have lost Larry again. But you know what, he's given us a great conclusion. We exit the field there it is, and outside of the Palestinian Israeli situation.
I got to say, I don't know where the next fire is going to get lit on the planet, but I'm figuring that the US is definitely not going to be there to put it out or police it. And that is the newest world order. Larry Hancock. Go to larrydsh hancock dot com check out as many writings as blog everything Larry Hancock. I recommend all of his books and an interesting and open discussion here tonight about Ukraine, the US foreign policy situation as it is, as it
was and as it has been reset to. And there you go, Ukraine in a nutshell, and I tried not to interfere with it at all. And there's Larry Hancock's very considered and measured analysis. So we got that and Mike Swanson in the first hour to tell us about the economy of economics and how bad it might be, where it's going and where it's been. What the hell we're in a new age. And we'll just see if the o'celly effects survives it. After all, you are, indeed
the effect. I am merely o'celly. And I'll tell you this if you don't support me in the next month or so. Who knows if I'll be able to pay the big bills or not. I guess stay tuned and find out if I disappear. Hopefully it's not because I ended up being shut down somewhere and stuck in a black site, but that might come up depending on how crazy it is. I want to go with the next set of guests and the next set of topics on the show, and what the hell? I guess rock out m nuclear holocaust?
You know what uranium is, right?
Just think called nuclear weapons and other things like lots of you know what uranium is right? Bad things having things are done with uranium, including some bad things.
Nuclear holocaust. You know what uranium is right?
I have been gree.
Nuclear holocaust is nuclear holocaust.
You know what uranium is right?
They just think called nuclear weapons and other things like lots of you know what uranium is right?
This is James Corbetty Order Report dot Com and you're listening to the dot com.
Cool.
Do you remember that time when Benjamin Fulford said that an Asian secret society was going to dispatch ninjas to take down the Illuminati.
Oh that's interesting, yeah in the clutchroon?
Yeah did that ever work out too?
Good.
No it didn't, did it. But here on o'chelly dot com Radio network, things work out a bit better, don't they much better?
Much is clear and understanding about the programs, The programs much clearer, getting live people into it.
They really have a good conversation going.
Much better, much better scene.
I say, forget Benjamin Fulford and his ninjas and listen to the Ocelly dot com Radio Network.
I agree, it's straight to the point, straight talk, and I like that idea dot com.
Chill dot com.
A conversation.
Do you like history, real history that you were never taught in schools? Why the Vietnam War Nuclear Bombs in nation Building in Southeast Asia by author Mike Swanson, with new documentation never seen before that'll open your eyes to events that led up to this. Why the Vietnam War Nuclear Bombs in Nation Building in Southeast Asia nineteen forty five through nineteen sixty one. Get your copy today at Amazon dot com. Why the Vietnam War by author Mike.
Swanson dot Com Radio Network.
The Mayor humped dumps Am, the Mayor hay holding the DA