The Ochelli Effect 3-16-2025 Chris Graves

Get ready for it.

Hey, the sixteenth day of twenty twenty five March.

Yep, I'm putting it all out order.

Why not, Allegedly, according to that thing called the calendar, the Ocelli Effect, broadcasting live on a Sunday. Notice, I didn't screw around with the day, because Sunday is Sunday anyway. It is what it is, and it was what it's going to be.

And all that.

Anyway, Who do I got with me here on a Sunday? I got two guests actually that are going to go out live. And the first little surprise on a Sunday is a conversation with Chris Graves. Now, if you listen to my podcast regularly, you might hurt him call into the Friday Night Show recently, you might have been aware that there was a little bit of a controversy between us not too long ago, and all that good stuff or not so good stuff, depending on who you are.

I'm doing Uh, I'm doing okay. I guess I'm just happy that we're able to do this right now.

Well, we both survived two interesting things. I had a mystery ill this and you went through a car crash. I don't know if you want to talk about that, but it's up to you. I leave it open, as I do for any guest to discuss what they want.

First of all, well, throughout my life, not to get into the.

Not to get into all the the horrible stuff. But I had a lot of trauma growing up, like a lot of people, and I I came.

To find that I was really good at research. When it came to you know.

I guess you'd call it conspiracy theories, government corruption and things like that, and it's not a very healthy place to be, first of all, but I was good at finding things that were buried. When it came to on the Internet, I utilized tools like the Wayback Machine, Google, you know, Lios, all these you know, these older search engines, and I was able to find like material that nobody remembered or maybe they never saw it to begin with.

I mean I could go back and say UFOs and things like that. But I think it's like a.

Lot of people right, sorry about the weenie dogs there, they're they're interrupting for no particular reason. Probably something's going on outside my house, but just saying it's I note here when I listen to you talk about what it is that you got drawn into and what it is you felt as though you could uncover details about. And the one thing that stands out is a lot of death, destruction and evil stuff. And you're saying, look, it's not a healthy headspace. And I get that, you know, if

I mean, yeah, And maybe I had a misplaced sense of like, maybe I can shed light on this kind of thing. But just with my background when it comes to substance abuse and depression and anxiety, that you're not equipped with the right tools, like right off the bat, that people can just kind of, you know, throw away what you're saying based on your character. That has waited on me in the last three years to be honest with you quite heavily.

And well, here's the thing I need to ask again. I'm sorry to interrupt, but I'm hearing your story and I want to help you tell it right. And the thing I'm hearing again is that, look, I realize that I've got my issues. And I could say that personally from my own perspective too. And you know, you walk through hell you think you've got to handle on these things.

I think this is something that happens. What do you think of that?

Yeah, No, I one hundred percent agree. In my situation, I let alcohol destroy my life and it's still destroying my life. And it's unfortunate because I really do believe in my abilities of finding certain things.

But when you have alcohol.

In the background, people are able to write you office just mean a conspiracy kook. And that's where I find myself currently. And it's heartbreaking because a lot of hours going to trying to find, you know, the truth, quote unquote the truth, whatever the topic is, whether it's JFK.

Nine to eleven, whatever, And.

When people find out that you have like a background when it comes to substance use, it's very hard to dig yourself out of that hole. And then people think that you're making up everything when even when you're not.

So Yeah, it's.

Well, did this happen on a personal, like just on a one to one basis with you, or do you think that this kind of publicly happened to you where people started saying, look, you know, Chris obviously has a drinking problem or something like that. I mean, because I didn't notice that anybody was attacking you like that. But then again, you and I stopped talking for.

A little while.

So were people attacking you directly in public? Or was this a private thing or what was going on? I mean, if you want to share that, go ahead. If you don't, don't, But I'm just thinking, did it privately?

Yeah?

They are now and I can't blame them because I can't. Like I got I got in a car accident on December second of December, and now I have people that don't believe.

That I even was in a car accident.

It's on record because I was in the hospital, and there's no way for me to really combat that, and I don't.

I could back up the Christmas If anybody's listening to this, wait a second. If anybody's listening to this and thinks that Chris wasn't in the hospital or wasn't in an accident, here's the thing. I might even have a motive to sit here and attack him, and and I'm not going to uh but but the thing is, he was in the hospital.

I couldn't get a hold of him at the hospital. They would't let me talk to him.

But he was there, okay, and he was there for a long time and was in intensive care, so but they wouldn't let me talk to him. I'm just just telling you, guys that that's a reality. If somebody thinks that he wasn't in the hospital and he didn't get hurt really really bad. Now I don't know all the details. Some people shared him secondhand to me, but I'm telling you now, if you think he wasn't in the hospital or he wasn't injured real bad, you're wrong. That did happen.

I just want to say that there's people out there that I really can I consider really good friends of mine, that they think I made the whole thing up, and which I can't combat because like, how do you combat that kind of thing? Because the people that don't think that I even was in an accident, they were sending me phones and they.

Were calling me all the time.

So now it's like, I don't know what, there's nothing for me to really be able to do to defend myself. But you know, they can think whatever they want to think. But it's been heartbreaking, and yeah, the conspiracy.

World, I don't know, like I could have went further than what I did.

And now I'm just like I'm better rough not to even like broach the subject. So well, what especially when it comes to like, you know, the Trump assassination attempt that the election that just happened, Like I can't I find myself in a position where I can't even go into that because it's just gonna hurt me in some way.

So Okay, what you're saying, though, is that your credibility guy's gone. Got's taken from you? But what at what point did you lose it? I mean, do you think you lost it because you were acting out a bit before the car accident or is it the car accident.

That did it? Or what?

What do you think it caused you to lose that credibility if you don't mind me asking specifically.

Well, there's people that don't even think I was kicked out of a Boston medical center on the Year's Eve, which was the case because I had to have my sister calling uber to uber me back from Boston, Massachusetts back to Taunton, mass So how am I supposed to prove that to anybody?

I don't I can't personally verify that. I I didn't know what happened to you at a certain point there, but I know I was trying to get a hold of you, but I couldn't couldn't get through to you. And then later on you got a hold of me, which you know, which is the way that worked. But look, I mean, but they're just calling you. They're just saying that you weren't telling the truth about certain things that

I mean, is that possible?

I don't know how it's possible, because I have the not only the documentation, but I had photographs from a friend of mine, Eric this is me in Boston Medical Center, and he helped me get my belongings out of my car that was totally smashed and beyond repair that I had to sign over to the Totra.

Company that had my car.

So I've been here since New Year's Day of you know, of the December.

Okay, anyway, rather and I.

Got you, I wasn't challenging you. I'm just saying, is it no.

You weren't.

No, But there's people out there that I really care about that I really think I made all this stuff like whole cloth like and I really didn't.

I know, part of it's true, like I said, because I interacted at least and tried to see what was going on. And you know, but and meanwhile, as I said, you know, you and I were kind of at odds at that point in time in my mind, so you know.

It was a weird situation.

Well look, I'm, as I told you privately, I don't want an apology. But you know, if you want to tell people about that, go ahead, that's up to you. But but I'm just exploring why it is you're quitting, and you know, if it's just because of a personal attack over over this one situation. I got to tell you, man, I've been through a bunch of these things over the years where people have challenged things and said that I wasn't telling the truth about stuff.

Or I didn't I.

Didn't do the you know, or I didn't do certain things that I claimed I did, and all kinds of weird stuff. And it's wild because you know, you don't always take the time to document everything, you know, so that I have, you know, my receipts ready for you

Over the years.

And believe me, if I was making up stories, I'd make up way better stories than the ones I've told on here, you.

Know, because of some strange stuff.

I mean, like my whole weird interaction with uh Courtney Love's father there, right. I wish I had more, you know, interesting information to tell, but he just kind of, yeah, he just sort of died, uh in the midst of him and I played phone tag, which was weird.

And yeah, and I totally believe it.

Too, I do, you know, But but he did get on the show once and uh, and then they actually invited me to go on the Zoom memorial thing they did uh uh, you know, uh. And I recorded the audio of that.

Uh.

But but I don't usually record everything I do, you know what I mean. It's just a matter of I recorded that because I was looking, you know, I just I wanted to be able to catch it all and I didn't know if I could sit in front of the screen the whole time, so I recorded it. And matter of fact, I think I might have sent you the audio just to show you what was going on. But but okay, but that was back when you and I were working together, and that came to a sudden end.

I don't know if anybody even cares if they care.

But can I just backtrack and.

Okay, yeah, tell your side of it, because for me, it begins with back to the Future, I know, which is the goofiest way a minute, let me just say this before you say anything.

It is the.

Goofiest, stupidest thing to end up in an argument with somebody over that you are like working with and trying to like because I'm trying to promote you, I'm trying to work with you, I'm trying to produce your show and I'm doing the best I can.

Okay, And that fight.

We didn't get into a fight over combine or some or some guest you had on that I didn't like, because you had a few guests I did not like. You had a few you know, interesting, Oh my god, why is he bringing this guy on? Okay, Fine, you're gonna talk to this guy again.

Uh, you know.

And I've been through a whole weird thing with and I'm going to bring up a name you're not gonna like. But I've been through a whole weird thing with Bob Wilson already because.

But I was trying to produce him.

And the reason why I bring you up with him right now, or the reason why I bring him up to you, is because the both of you came off with Don Jefferies where you guys were kind of like working with him, and I was like, don you know, I'm enjoying producing your show, but you know, I'd like to produce some others, and he like kind of shoves.

You two guys my way.

And then Don was getting produced a lot, heavily by Tony Hardburn, and he was focusing on those shows, and we weren't really getting much traction out of the Jeffrey Show over here.

So I said, don look.

Take take the intro we wrote, take the artwork, take everything, bring it over to Tony and do it over there, because it'll be better, more consolidated with him. It's not because I didn't like Don.

I like Don. He's a nice guy.

Well can I say something in your favor?

Go ahead?

Well, Don, who's a friend of mine.

He wasn't promoting the Don Jeffrey Show an ochelly dot com. All he was doing was promoting his show I Protest, which was on Tony Ardeburn's network.

I'm Erica lug.

Yeah, well that's how I felt about it. And you know what, I don't begrudge him. He can do what he wants with his name, his stuff, and maybe he just didn't feel like it was worthy of promoting, which okay, cool, then go ahead and do that. And that was the whole thing. I wasn't mad. I wasn't like, oh, I don't like Don Jeffries anymore. It was just like, it doesn't make sense for him and I to get together once a week to do a show that hardly anybody

That's it.

And I don't care if I was producing Jack Blood or I was producing you or Pierce or you know. I've been working with Aaron the longest, but all I want to do is see if we can, you know, get you doing better. I want to see you guys succeed, all of you, all of you. And that's it. And the weirdness that went on with me and Bob was because he started doing Religious hours on my network and I basically said I don't agree with this, and he's freaked out and he wanted out.

So I was like, okay, here you go.

And in fact, here's a very Christian centric broadcaster that would probably love to produce your show. I even gave him another broadcaster to go to and said, you know what, and again, still even though I disagree with you and I don't want to hear you, know, what I feel as though is a very it's kind of negative when it's like, unless you're a Christian, you're you're nothing, you know, kind of I don't like that. So you want to take that with somebody who appreciates that, go ahead, do it.

So see right now, Bob Wilson got me.

Uh he he made a story about how I wanted to kill myself and he got me.

Uh. He got me locked up in the looney Bend.

Yeah.

He got you on a on a cycle that it seems.

Like, uh for like a week and a half where I literally had to blame my own lawyer.

I'm sorry to laugh, but I actually called you when you were in there.

I want to say that because it's important, because you were one of the only people that called me when I was in there that like help me.

Well.

First, first, Chris, I was concerned, okay, because if indeed you had been in that mindset, yeah, I didn't want you to harm yourself, you know, if that's where you were at, you know. But but I didn't also make that judgment because I hadn't heard you say this stuff, and you know, I was like, well, you know, Chris is a little moody, and maybe I am. You know, maybe he said some crazy stuff. I don't know. I

You know.

That's what I would and that's what I have done. So yeah, anyway, I'm just saying, yeah, so that happened, but that was before you and I had a problem.

Like I said, that's even before.

Being Bob had and I got a little mad at him over it because I don't believe in calling. The last thing in the world I ever want to do is because to.

Get the authorities involved involved to the bitter end.

And everything gets worse. Well, you see, I don't call a cops. Okay, if somebody has to be dead before I'm calling the police. And really I'm only calling them so they can legally remove a corpse. I really don't want to call them.

Otherwise, seriously, right, you know. So that's my attitude.

And I didn't like that Bob did that, and I told him I'm like, dude, I would never call the authority. He asked me, should I call and I said no. But anyway, all I know is it that my.

Corner throughout the whole thing is when I'm trying to say, and.

It wasn't your quarner, but but anyway, so we start working together and me and Bob stop working together and that's that, and uh, okay, but we're going along for a little while. But it was about a year, right.

About a year year and a half, I'm not exactly sure, but okay, I started getting bitchy about there's this episode where I wanted to do a tribute to Back to the Future, and I was setting all these clips that I was finding on YouTube and I didn't exactly put them in context. So, yeah, it wasn't you.

It was me, like trying to put together a show at the last minute. Okay, so we've done it.

Can I interject something here? Can I just I.

Put together quite a bit like at the last minute because I don't know just my OCD or just my personality whatever.

Okay, let me just interject something here, right, is that? Okay?

So about two hours before he's about to go on air, he sends me all these clips that I gotta go and record real fast. I got to record each clip so I can play them, yeah, or I got to set it up so I can run you know, all these tabs open on YouTube, which is not an efficient way to use a computer at all. So I'm looking at it and going, wait a minute, let me add together these times? All right, Now your show is.

Only I'm sorry, but I'm.

Just saying your show is one hour long.

What a fucking schmuck I am. But you know, I well judge the language, but.

It's okay.

Look, let me let me just finish saying what I'm saying here because I want to get this out. So I'm looking at the time and I'm going, now, Chris's show is usually an hour, but if I allowed two hours, which we had an extra almost an hour, and sometimes he'd run over, so the show would be more than an hour long. But it was okay because I had a two hour pocket where you know, we could do

Number that you're not You're not off.

I'm not exaggerating.

I think maybe the exact number might have been twenty eight, but it was close to thirty clips. Okay, and they're all a couple of minutes long, and some of them were longer, like seven eight minutes.

So the point is when you add them all together.

I looked at it and went, there's more than an hour and twenty in clips. And I'm going, okay, Chris, are you sure you want all of these?

Yeah?

I know, I'm went in his response, wait a minute, Wait a minute, wait a minute.

His response is.

He's one of the best producers out there.

But his response was, never mind. I just I just wanted to have fun. Screw this, never mind. I just wanted to have fun. And I'm like, Chris, I'm not trying to tell you not to have fun. I'm just trying to do math here, and so we're going for it, and then and then he's like, okay. So we're getting about ten fifteen minutes before showtime, and he's like, you're mad at me, aren't you. And I'm like kinda, but never mind, Let's do the show and just get through it and forget it.

I want Spas to gun. Chuck is basically what it comes down to. Because I have a all lot of mental issues.

So well you wouldn't let it go. But you wouldn't let it go, okay.

And and then you were like you got on air and you go all right, look I'm on air, but I don't even know if I want to do this, so screw it anyway, play a clip.

I'm like, Okay, this is funny to me.

I was not professional in the least.

But this is just funny to me because it's like, I can't win.

There's no way to win.

You couldn't and you know what, you you put up with my stuff as best you could.

And all I can say is that I apologized.

But first it's okay, it's okay. Look, it's it's okay.

But look the phrase it comes to mind Star Trek fans, Kobe Yashi Maru.

You have the no win scenario here. I couldn't do anything.

I mean, it was just like, dude, okay, just just forget it, Chris, go go ahead, do your thing, do what you want to do, don't worry about me to help with me, go ahead and do it. And you were just like, no, we're on here.

Here's the thing.

Folks like like he no, he agreed to like produce my show and put it out on his channel, which you know, I don't.

I don't how do I put this?

Like he put up with insanity that he didn't have to, and I it was one of the worst things that I ever did, like in.

My adult life. Bad.

Look you know what I written out. Honestly, it's okay, one of the worst things.

And ever since then, everything that's happened to me, Like, I've thought about this, like for a long time, because this is like going back like a year and a half, two years ago.

Almost, and.

I've been trying to figure out a way to make it up to Chuck o'chelly.

Yeah, look, you don't have to do that.

The thing that bothers me that a person has to you know what I mean.

Yeah, But here's the thing, man, I'm gonna tell you bluntly and right right here in front of everybody as best I can.

I don't care.

I'm gonna put this out the way it is. And it's just I'm sorry, I'm laughing at some of this.

I'm gonna have to. I have to laugh because I can't.

I was, well, it's it's kind of funny because realize this is again just because we're playing like Marty McFly clips, you know, from.

Back to the Future, which is some of my favorite stuff.

And he's so pissed at me that that he can't even do his show and he's just forget it. He's just angry because I said, are you sure you want all these clips?

That's how it started. It was just I don't know how I became the bad guy.

I'm like, I can't justify what I was saying. I can't.

It's okay, it's okay, it's just to me. It's the funniest thing because it was, like I swear, I felt like there was no way, no way for me to win. And then it got weirder after that because the show's over, okay, fine, we cut it off, and uh, I don't know. And then you got mad at me and started tweeting all kinds of crazy stuff and I was just like wow, like I don't know what to say, Like, well, just let me let me ask you this question because you

Okay, well that makes more sense.

I was drinking, But that's that's not an excuse to go against like one of your best budds.

Well, it's it's.

Look, I'm not I'm not trying to make an excuse.

I was just asking, just saying the mindset, like was not the mindset if.

I don't know, you know what I mean.

Yeah, Like when someone goes to drink and then they go and do something very public, it's not an excuse like you fucking made. You made the decision to put yourself out there in whatever state of mind, whether you're smoking weed, you're doing trooms, drinking whatever. You as a fully formed adult, made a decision to present yourself in a certain way.

You can't take that back.

But is this where everything starts unraveled though? Or did it?

Or because it looked like there was a transition over to some other places and I thought everything was gonna be okay, you know, not necessarily suicidal.

I was, And not to give Bob Wilson credence because when him and I were arguing, when you weren't, I wasn't talking about suicide.

I was just kissed at Bob Wilson.

So now when you look back, oh yeah, he you know, he got you locked out and everything. Yeah, how can you argue against you know, oh yeah, you know. But the stuff that was going on in my life, my situation, my living situation. You know, how can you justify what your actions are, what you say.

And you really can't.

Well, so here's the thing, Like, on the one hand, people want you to share what's going on in your life, right, but on the other hand, you got to kind of put up a firewall because you can't give him everything because if you do one way or another, people use it against you, you know, And this is always the problem with even being just minor in the public's view

Like even though when I when I.

Would watch the news, it was making me nuts for a little bit because like I was watching the Don Lemon Show, and I started saying, look, it's like a game show.

It's like how racist is it is?

One hour and then the other hour is let's do the break bunch split screen and argue about Donald Trump. And that was his format. And I was watching it to just get to observe what's going on in one of the.

Major media outlets.

But I never had the urge to be like, you know what, I'm gonna go after Don Lemon.

Uh.

I didn't want to do that. Like I and I know other people are like, oh, you know what, I've heard terrible things though he's actually people made accusations against him. I don't even want to repeat some of the weird stuff people have tried to say that he did because.

I don't know how true it is. And that's the thing.

I try not to repeat things that I think are just crap unless I go, look, this is a rumor, this is crap going around, and I'll tell you that. But but I've never had this urge to watch something or to continuously listen to something and then go, I gotta take this presenter down. I gotta I gotta go after this actor. I got to go after this broadcaster. I gotta go after this news guy. I've never done that. And even even when I turned away, like you know, I'll admit it, for a little while, I was an

Him, right.

So the thing is I was listening to And even though I goof on him and I see what he is now, I'm not like actively trying to take him down.

Personally, you know, Like I just I don't know what that is.

Like, Like even I wasn't necessarily comfortable with when his his ex wife was going out on radio shows for a little bit. I almost went and got her, yeah, and then I didn't because I was just like, you know what, it sounds to me like she's arguing personal

It's just business, never personal.

It's just you know, not a big deal. But I don't know, like if you're just a at.

Least this is the way it used to be.

I don't know if it still is because everybody and their mother got a podcast now. But the thing is, if you were a podcaster for a little while, you guaranteed got you some hate listeners who wanted to go after you personally. So if you uttered the wrong thing or somehow expose your kids out there too much something like that, they go after your kids, They go after your your your love life. They go after you know, you were drunk in a.

Bar two years ago.

They dig up your your police records, they.

You know, and I have I have that now, Chuck. Yeah, Like I could.

I could go on and try to do a bunch of podcasts right now, and I just feel like it's all going to get destroyed.

I do, I really do because.

There's people out there that don't think I was ever in a car accident which is on record, and I'm still dealing with that record.

Well, I guarantee you that if they did a little research, they could they could get the police reports.

Yeah, absolutely, it's public record.

You know, there's got to be an accident report because I saw the picture of that car, So there's definitely an accident report.

People that don't think that that was like attributed to the accident which a friend of mine, Eric, he came down and he brought me to the car to try to get my license in all the cards that were my wallet.

But how am I supposed to combat that now?

Yeah, and you don't want to lose that stuff. I got to tell you because because right now, because I don't have a valid government ID, I'm locked out of my Facebook. I've got all kinds of things I can't do because I don't have an ID. And yeah, Facebook will not let me back into Chuck O'Kelly or the Ocelli effect or any of the stuff on Facebook until I show them a government ID. And I uploaded to them a brand new one because my old one is no good.

So I can't find her. They want to reinstate my license.

Five hundred dollars, right, and I'm sitting here in the trailer and I'm not able to do anything now.

The only thing you're going to be able to do first probably is go get just like a dmv ID and to do Yeah, they'll issue you one of those, and I mean as a handicapped person. In some states, if you're handicapped, they'll they'll give it to you for cheap or free. But even in places where you got to pay for it, you know, it might be twenty bucks something like that.

Yeah, it would be thirty twenty five three dollars.

Okay, well yeah, well again that's Massachusetts, so it's gonna be a little more expensive, right right.

The thing like I I have to I've been trying to get a disability lawyer for my.

Lower back, right.

I when they when Boston Medical Center kicked me out, I wasn't able to bring my back brace, so my lower back wasn't able to heal the way it was supposed to do.

You're gonna have to find a doctor and get re evaluated and then present that stuff to disabilities.

What you're gonna have to do.

That's what I'm trying to do right now.

And I feel like I got people that I considered like friends in mine for the last three years that I think I just I was making up the whole thing.

Well, I'll talk to my a couple of my family members that are in the area, and it's like, how do you all these people that I consider friends? Do they think I made the whole thing up?

Well, I know you didn't make the whole thing up.

Yeah, but it's like, how do you prove that?

Now?

They even were the same people that were sending me like a phone like to the hospital, and now it's like I don't have any way to like, how am I supposed to like prove that, you know what I mean. I don't mean to get emotional, but it's like I've been in hell for the last like two months.

But look, man, I don't I don't feel good about where this is going. I don't want you to have to break down over this stuff I was.

Sorry to do. It's just my everyday life. I don't want to do. No.

I understand this. I understand where you're at. I just yeah, I understand where you're at.

Man.

Look I wish I had a.

Solution for you on this, I really do, but it's so impossible. You know, once people decide something about you and you know.

You're, yeah, your credibility is out the window and.

And you know, here, here's the thing, like, and I'm not trying.

To be mean, but understand what you're thinking. Well, just understand that, you know, if you acted out in certain ways in the past with people, right, they might see that. You know what, you can't necessarily trust everything that comes out of him because he said things in the past or whatever alcohol or you know, or maybe he.

Was And that's the thing, you know.

So I don't know all of your interactions with these people that are that are turning on you. I really don't. I can only speak for myself, you know what I mean. And you know, and I feel bad because it's like I I wish, I wish I could help everybody.

You know what I mean.

But but frankly, I don't have the ability to do much for you except tell you that you know, you gotta you gotta let go that which is not on your side and just work with what you got. And I know sometimes it's not a lot. And believe me, I've been there. Yeah, you know, I I've had to reckon recently with the idea that you know, pretty much outside of the people that I connect with on the internet, right uh, you know, all I've got in my adult life is Kim.

That's it.

I've got no connection to anybody. I don't have friends in the area. I don't see people, really, I mean, I see random strangers on the street or whatever. But I don't have friends. I don't have family connections. I got nothing.

So and I'm I'm I'm at the same place that you're in.

Honestly, the only the only advantage I have over you right now is I've got a partner. But I mean, honestly, it's it's a very very tenuous thing.

You know.

It's like your whole hold on anything outside of yourself in life is just one other person.

Yeah, you know.

And I tried to build up I excuse me, I tried to build up like the podcast thing in the last three years. And now I noticed that a lot of the people that I considered like really good friends are gone now because they think I'm full of shit. And that's another reason why with the podcast stuff, I'm kind of done with it because.

All I'm going to get in like the comments.

Section or whatever is that oh, you're full of shit, and and I can't bring myself to read that. Maybe it's just too much of a pussy, but I just can't like all the stuff that like right now, and like I don't have any pain meds for my lower back or whatever, and I'm just gonna get comments from people saying, you know, you're full of shit, you know, like you never had an accident. It's like, how am

But like what I'm saying to you is, look, you gotta unfortunately, you gotta.

Let go of it because it's just yeah, people.

That are not on your side are not on your side, you know, and they're gonna they're gonna make their choices just like you made yours. And I mean, I'm sorry, but that that is what sucks about this, right is that you're you're gonna make almost no friends doing this, you know, and the ones that you do, you never know how long you're gonna hang on to them for.

But Chuck, just if if I can ask you this, if I were to continue trying to do shows and things like that, like what do I do? Like, like what do I do? Because I have a lot of ideas for shows. But now I got this whole contingent of people that are going to think that I'm just making it up.

Well, I wish I had a good suggestion for you, because the fact is that if you're gonna get really upset about people attacking you, they're gonna do it.

But they're only going to do it just so long.

You know, most of the people that have come after me for this or that, or tried to, you know, personally harass me out of doing what I'm doing, they.

Eventually go away. They fall away.

You know.

I've been doing this now about twelve years. And the thing is, from the beginning, it started with like I said, as soon as you got like ten people listening, guaranteed at least one of them hate you. Okay, I'm just telling you, And they'll use anything against you.

That they can.

Yeah, And what I'll tell you is that if you've decided that you don't want to deal with that, then don't you know you can do anything with your life you choose to do. I know that there's limitations right now. And believe me, I've dealt with limitations my whole life, where it's like, you know, I can't get access to this, I can't get access to that. I don't have you know,

Back me, right, you know. So that's it.

That's all I got, and I have to either live with that or not. And if I can't, then.

I won't do this anymore.

And you know what, when that comes, and it will come eventually, I mean, at some point I'm gonna stop doing this.

I'll drop the dead or something, you know.

You know when you have the hit Tricker's Guide to the jfk assassination.

Well, you know, I've got most of that written and I don't even know what to do with it at this point. I mean, I'm really questioning a lot of things personally too going forward, and not for the same reasons as you. I didn't go through a car accident, but I went through this weird mystery illness, which is funny because it actually happened around the same time that

Whatever.

I'm not even necessarily saying I believe in germ theory. I'm just saying, Look, I got exposed to people who God knows what they were carrying or shedding or whatever. And at first I even thought maybe I was just dealing with the shedding of the you know, of the COVID vacs, right, But whatever it was, I started getting sick.

And I think it was one of the new strains.

I god, well, see, here's the bad thing. I went to a hospital at one point and they were stumped. They were trying to find bird flu. They were trying to find COVID. They were, and you know what, they found nothing. They're sitting there going, we don't know what's wrong with you, right, and you know, and meanwhile, I don't have the money to pay this, you know, all all this credit like, it's not like I can go, Okay, I'm gonna go see five doctors afterwards.

I wasn't gonna happen. So right with, the best I could.

Get was they call it the coliseum over here. I forget what the technical medical term is for the hospital. Even I forget now because I actually haven't gotten the bills yet, which is strange. They haven't sent me to bills.

So I got a bill for two hundred and nineteen thousand dollars.

See, I'm sure they're putting one of those together for me, because I was in there a bit. But but I don't know what, you know, at some point I'll probably see it, like next month or something where it'll.

Just show up.

But the point is that, h they couldn't figure it out, and uh, you know, basically, Kim just dragged me home and started, uh you know, feeding me capfuls of gator ray just to try and keep me going.

Uh, And I was out of it. Man.

I could not function at all, and I wasn't sleeping either. I was just kind of like in a zombifide kind of state. And I have no idea what was going I really thought I was about ready to kick is what was going on? Because even I, like, for years, I have drank and everybody people know this about me, and they make fun of me sometimes I drink soda. For years, I've always drank lots of soda and lots of caffeinated soda. I drink lots of caffeine in general.

I have no idea what was going on.

It was like my body was rejecting everything and I was just ill. And like I said, they tried to find COVID, they tried to find bird flu and they got negative tests.

So I don't know what hit me even.

Yeah, you know, and I and even Kim thought I was about ready to check out because I was just that out of it and I just I don't know.

It was like, is did I have a stroke?

I don't know, Like I really was that far out.

Of it.

And I've had neurological issues.

So what did they tell you for aftercare? If you asking?

They did not.

All they said is to keep me hydrated, and you know, pretty much eventually I'll be able to keep food down.

That that was their whole aftercare. Nothing. That's what I'm telling you. They were stumped. I don't even know. That's why I'm saying, I don't even know if they're gonna send me a bill.

Maybe they won't, you know, but I mean normally they would anyway, regardless even if they do nothing, they give you a freaking aspiren they send you two hundred dollars bill, So I don't know, but so far I haven't received it.

Just saying, yeah, I don't know what to make of this.

And like I said, during that time, I know you were you were in there because I tried to call you and they wouldn't put me through. It's like, yeah, I got the right floor, I got the right nurse, but you know, and I went through their switchboard, so I know it wasn't like, you know, your buddy's phone or something, so.

You know what I mean.

The thing now, like now it's like I don't know how to prove that I was in there are not like.

Well, look, I like I said, I wouldn't spend my time doing battle with this stuff.

Right, Okay, I don't have the energies.

I'm like, literally, well, and you got to get yourself together.

Man.

It sounds like to me like, look, you're suffering right now, and you got to focus on that, and you gotta find a way out of.

That one way or another. Okay.

Yeah, And I'm not suggesting chemical solutions. I'm not suggesting that you can do things that you don't have money to do.

But there's got to be a way out of it.

And I'm sorry, I wish I had the solution for you, but I didn't even know what to do with myself when I was sitting here sick. Yeah, you know, and there was you know, nobody seemed to miss me all that much when I stopped doing my show, So you know, it's like, okay, what happened to that? I mean, I had one or two people that care.

I missed you this whole time, my friend, right, I treated you like garbage, and I'm very I'm very for that. Well, look, no, I really am.

Yeah, but you know what, I don't. I don't hold it against you, all right.

I really do.

I can't explain like the mental stuff like anyone out there, check o'chilly is a great producer, and.

I'm just a very flawed person. And I never meant for what happened to happen.

All right, Look, I'll tell you what. Let's leave it.

Let's leave it off here, Chris, because here's the thing. I don't hold this against you, okay, And and I don't.

I don't. I don't need apologies or nothing.

I just you know what, I want you to know that though I appreciate it, and and I want you to know that I hope that whatever you decide to do in the future, that you excel at. I hope that you you you have a future in front of you.

You just got to decide what to do with.

It, Okay. And I can't make those decisions for you. I can't make those suggestions for you. I wish I could, you know, but if I felt competent to solve my own future questions, then I would. I would probably tell you something, but I can't, you know what I mean. So look, I want to leave this off here. Obviously we're not promoting anything today. You can go get the TNP feed still has your stuff on it, doesn't it or did they take that down?

They still have it on there.

Okay, Well, look if people go and search out get Mad with Chris Graves or digging Chris Graves, he's got a couple of things out there on the TNP feed. I'm sure that's still up on the Rumble channel and things like that. I'm pretty sure you can search it there. I know a bunch of us got perched from Rock Fin, so I don't think you're up on there anymore or whatever.

But yeah, a lot of my shows are gone now.

Yeah, I mean Rock Finn ditched a bunch of us apparently.

Yeah, Weezy America Unplugged.

And Corbett Report and my show and yeah, so you know.

I don't know what that means.

I'm just saying, uh, but you might be able to find Chris on Rumble still and I know I put out some videos with this stuff. I I don't know where they are if they still exist, because a lot of my stuff got knocked down, but but you can find it out there. And again, we're not doing this to promote anything. I just wanted to have a conversation with Chris and be like, look, you know what.

I hope that you.

Know they're going forward, You're you're gonna be able to to succeed. It's cool, man, Look I love you too. I always wanted to I. Yeah, well, you know what we all are. You know what I'm saying. I I know that I'm rather flawed as well. That's why again I don't even blame you. It's just I I didn't

It just was weird and things.

Really it was my situation at the time.

Well, look, things happen, and hopefully at least some of that has improved. You know, whatever was going on then I hope you're doing better off of that. I hope you're doing better outside of the fact that I know you're suffering at the moment. I hope you're in a better place than you were.

Then.

I'm trying trying.

Well, look, man, that's all we all can do every single day.

Yeah, you know.

Anyway, I'm gonna leave it at that, guys, And uh, I'll put this out as is, not going to edit it or anything.

It just is as it is. And uh, you know what, I want to thank you for coming on and doing this with me.

And I don't know, I'd love to see you do some stuff in the future, but I can't tell you what to do.

I just I'm not sure because of all the craft surrounding the accident and all that.

You never know, you could change your name.

Right, because I have a lot, I know, I have a lot to offer. It's just you know, the conspiracy theorist guy. I don't know.

Well, yeah, but who knows.

Maybe you can do something else and make Chris your last name, right, and then use your middle name as your first name or something like that, you know, switch it around.

I'm gonna try, yeah, switch.

Around, after all, Jack blood is not you know, that's not his name.

I know. Yeah, I just want you to know that he would you taking the time to.

To talk to me and my all, my ship, my bullshit right now.

Look, man's if it's the least I can do, it's the least I can do.

But I I really heard thinks.

Man. You're a good man. You're a good man.

Thank you. I I I just hope that things improve for you.

Man.

That's all for you guys listening, We're gonna leave it at that. I'm just gonna cut this all right.

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