Get ready.
February eleven, twenty twenty five, allegedly according to that thing we call a calendar, And yeah, this is the show you were looking for. How do I know it because you found it the o'celly effect. Anyway, Look, it is a Tuesday, right and tearesday it is. And it's funny because normally I've had Larry Hancock on lately on Wednesdays. But this is a special episode anyway, for more than one reason. And in case you haven't guessed yet, yes,
Larry Hancock is back with me. Of course, an author who takes up a lot of space on my bookshelf. I've said this before, and he doesn't just take up space there. And we're not today gonna talk about the new book on Lee Harvey Oswald, not at all. In fact, we're gonna talk about something that I really was unsure
we were gonna end up getting to. But then I saw on Instagram and caught up later that maybe somebody had made an appearance on the Alex Jones Show that had something to do with one of the well more discussed characters in the JFK case. Okay, and not necessarily the first name that you would think of on this show for sure, but definitely somebody tied to well, let's
spoil it a little bit, the universe of LBJ. Anyway, before I go any further into the discussion, let's see how Larry Hancock is, because he's with me tonight and we're going to actually team up sort of to do an interview with a really unique guy that I'm real happy to have on the show who is related to one of those people who was in that Johnson universe and Hm is he the guy who was working with him in the Oval office? No, anyway, maybe it goes a little d deeper, maybe a dozen't. You got to
see for yourself, Larry. How you doing tonight, Sarah?
I'm doing good, Chuck. And as I was just saying, this show has taken me back, like almost thirty years to the late nineties when I was working all things Texas, and it's like it's been a great opportunity for me to try to recover some long varied memories, right.
And you know, I'm struggling in my head to figure out the proper way to introduce the man that's with us today because he's an interesting guy and like, just just talking to him a little bit off air. It has been interesting for me. I'm very curious about this audio that came out. I mean, perhaps you and I should talk about that real fast, because I wasn't even aware of that audio and you passed it over to me, and I said, WHOA, how did I miss this? And
I did. I was busy with other things, and I was like, WHOA, wait a minute, how did I miss this? It was literally marked as a confession once again regarding the JFK assassination. And maybe you could help me set this up just a little bit, because I think it requires some setup before we let this gentleman speak for himself about this tape. It's wild, though, go ahead, ry.
This was an area that got a lot of discussion, as I stay, starting in the late nineties. Probably what really brought it to more general attention is Billy saw SDS did an interview with a French journalist, William Ramond,
and that interview was circulated. I got a copy of it, an English translation of the interview, and in it, Billy Saalest was talking about the involvement of Linda Johnson and Cliff Carter in a series of murders out in West Texas and that that really surfaced this within the assassination rechurch community. It became a big, big deal for two or three years, a lot of discussion, of course, of Johnson had been discussed as a as a suspect for
since day one. You know, when I told Jane when I first started working in Texas, it's like everybody I talked to, all the Techans, Texans said they assumed it was Johnson because nobody trusted him about anything, and it was just kind of like the assumption he must have had something to do with it. So, but it's that's almost three decades, you know that that's a long time ago. But it was a topic of a great discussion for two or three years, and then Billy sol Estes published
his own book. I think after maybe Romone did not give him the kind of money that he was expecting, as I recall from one conversation and that you know that carried it forward. But it's not been you know, it was as this these things do they they come and go. So it was a very hot topic at one point in time. You know, would have found it all over the compu served a forum, but it really has not been around for a couple of decades as a major discussion topic to come knowledge right now.
For a long time it was preserved in the Man Who Killed Kennedy kind of concept, and in fact, the Men Who Killed Kennedy they took away that episode right from the Men Who Killed Kennedy series. Although I got to say the way that they scripted that was pretty was pretty interesting, because I was just thinking of it while you were speaking. Tongues were already wagging in Texas, you know, regarding Johnson immediately, because Johnson's from Texas, it
would have made sense Kennedy's killed in Texas. But then it got deeper and at some point we have this testimony too, right where you have this list of victims of lynnon Beans Johnson, and that surfaced and that was obviously clearly shown in that episode of The Men Who Killed Kennedy. And as far as I know, that is the main place that people were still discovering this is by the bootleg copies of episode nine of the Men Who Killed Kennedy. You know what I mean?
That is true, But Chuck, the kind of surprising thing is that had first become public back in nineteen eighty four. Again, this is not a new story. Billy Sall had appealed some charges he'd been convicted of, and he was looking for a deal with the Grand Jewelry. Douglas Caddy of what Watergate fame was his lawyer at that point in time, and his paperwork actually refers to a series of murders
in West Texas and the murder of jfk. And at that point in time he was talking to his lawyer about the fact that he had tapes with Cliff Carter talking about this. So again, this is really a long time story that surfaces again and again over time.
Right, So now enter mister Stevens into this conversation, which how you doing tonight, sir? You ready to tell this story?
Yes, sir, thanks for having me on and I'm excited to talk with you guys and your audience.
Right now. Larry has just given I think, a really excellent background on this as to what people could have discovered where they might have heard the name Billy so Lestie's before, and where they might recognize that he was tied to this circumstance, that he was known among people who researched the assassination and things like that, And indeed
going all the way back to the eighties. This was one of the things that I had to be initiated into because I got into the case in about eighty eight myself, and of course I had to hear about this, but it was one of those things I didn't know what to do with. It was part of what everybody
called the Texas Connection. And one guy wrote a book which wasn't all that great, called the Texas Connection, but other people had written many a book about these different connections in Texas, you know, and this involved the oil men and Madeline Brown and everything, you know over the years, going through the Heraldo appearances, going through the television appearances and all of that. And meanwhile, this is a member of your family we're talking about here over and over again.
So let's let's begin there.
Yeah, and it's fascinating here and Larry talk about some of the conversations he had with my granddad.
You know, he hadn't been with us for over a decade now, and you know, he certainly missed that.
I remember vividly the times of Saul talking about, Oh, we're going to get.
A big book deal, it's going to be a movie deal, and you know, he went from being one of.
The wealthiest men in Texas way before I was born, in the fifties and early sixties, and to really, I mean, it was the richest rag story of my grandmother after they took everything from him and put him in prison, her working three jobs and sewing my my mom and her.
Brothers and sisters clothes.
You know, they had a really, really rough and you know, it was kind of tough on the family, but a lot of them recovered to some degree, and Saul always thought in his head, he still had a kind of a twinkle in his eye. He thought that he was going to recover financially and make a big mint and get it all back. And part of that was, you know,
about a book deal or a movie deal. And you know, frankly, I kind of never started to give up on that because there were probably two or three different ones, and finally I was like, I don't think anybody's ever going to pay the money to do this.
Deal and make it happen. But I guess who knows, Larry, maybe your name was one that he had mentioned at the time, or.
You know, somehow perhaps we were in the same conversation area. So it took a few decades to get together.
But here we are.
Well, yeah, and that's an interesting take because look, on the one hand, there is your life experiences and what goes on, and then later on in life, you know a lot of people try and cash in on something that they were part of something or other. And I'm not casting any aspersions here. I wouldn't blame him, especially you know, he has to go through his family having
to go through what it goes through. You know, when you get incarcerated and you lose things that way and you lose your well, you're standing in society, your property itself, all of that. I mean, look, everybody looks to come back out of that and say there's got to be some redemption here. And if you have something that you could offer, I mean, why not. Plus, I mean, if you're talking about the nineteen eighties on, there's a lot
of lucrative deals here that are made. I mean, for God's sake, they paid Vince Bugliosi a million dollars and he didn't know anything about the case at all to write a book. You know, why not? And yeah, I'm taking a stab at a dead guy, but I would do it if he was alive. Trust me. Point is right, there was plenty of money. Why not. He has a connection and con troversial connection. But a guy who was forever marked as what you know, one of the I mean,
let's be blunt. You've heard this before. He's marked as one of the con men who was part of right Johnson's criminal organization. And by the way, I have no problem calling Lyndon Baines Johnson a criminal. But but I'll leave that alone. Maybe maybe you'd agree with me, maybe not, we'll see. Uh. But you know, but look, your your grandpa is your grandpa and uh, and he has this tie to it. And I mean, what were your thoughts about it early on? I mean, did you did you
know about these tapes all along? Did you know about the whole story all along? Or did you only know about part of it as you were growing up and learning about it later. I mean, give us an idea of your awareness of this.
Yeah, so, I so.
One of my earliest childhood memories, and I guess this would have been in the early eighties, was going in this old beat up limo and driving out to Big Springs, Texas and picking Soul up from jail or a prison out there in Big Springs, and I was just excited that we were going to get to, you know, have my granddad back and have him as part of my life. And certainly not old enough to understand or comprehend any of the magnitude of picking.
Your granddad up for prison or what that really meant.
It didn't feel kind of dirty, and I, you know, I knew that I didn't necessarily want to probably touch a lot of people there or something, which you know isn't necessarily true, but that's the memory that I have. But when I was six, maybe seven years old, of going into a prison to pick him up, and then all of a sudden, I was on the front page of the Appline Reporter News with him holding me and carrying me out of jail.
I was excited about it. I thought it was pretty cool that I was on the newspaper.
But then, you know, friends at school, and all of a sudden it blew up that you know, my granddad was a con man and a you know, a bad guy, and felon and all this stuff. And so, you know, Abilene was a pretty small town then and still to some degree he is. And you get judged pretty hard for that stuff, so all of a sudden when starts living with us, you know, it was kind of almost.
A burden at times.
He lived with me and my mom and my dad for years, and then my mom afterwards, and frankly, you know, I really avoided most of this stuff. I'd never read his book, either of his books, my aunt's book. I haven't read most of the books on him. I read Roger Stone's book, but I just stayed away from it because it just was kind of almost a negative thing.
I got you. So you're six or seven when he comes out of prison. Yeah, okay, and then how long does it take before you know, like I say, you become more aware of this stuff. I mean you said initially you weren't. Really it's just your granddad's coming out, and you got the childish view of prison, which is in normal natural you know, you don't know what to make of it. I mean, listen, grown people don't know what to make a prison if they have no exposure
to it. But the thing is, okay, you got granddad back home, and you start to realize the communities not necessarily welcoming and back with open arms, and you got to contend with you know, what was he a bad guy? He's in prison, but he's my granddad and you're dealing with him on a daily basis, and you're saying to yourself probably like he doesn't seem like a bad guy, right, I mean, this kind of thing going on, But eventually you're gonna change and you're gonna start to look into
these things. And just to qualify it, how old are you today as we speak, if you don't mind me asking?
From forty eight?
Now? Forty eight now, so you're just a little bit younger than me. Okay. It's interesting though, because this is a big transition to go from six seven year old to you know, just just edging up to fifty. All right, go on, So so tell me about how you learned and grew into this to know about this a bit.
And I don't remember specifics, like a specific.
Time of you know, this was the time that we sat down and had to talk that there's these tapes and whatnot. But I do remember at a certain age me, my brother cousins of us talking about, you know, kill Saul. The only reason he's still alive is he supposedly has these tapes and he knows who killed John F. Kennedy, and you know, they his life's endangered, and the reason he does certain things is to so that he's trying to protect us from being in danger.
And so it's kind of like you kind of live in a little bit of fear.
Of something bad could happen based on this knowledge that you know, there's powers that be out there that if these tapes were to get out, that something could happen, or that if he didn't have them.
That he would be dead.
As a kid, it's kind of formative, you know, it sticks in your head a little.
Bit and you kind of.
Keep your head on a swivel, just looking around to make sure everything's safe. And then, you know, as I've gotten older, I started to look at him different. You know, I think I heard his feelings a lot of times because I was partial to my other granddad, my granddad on the dad's side of the family, because frankly, I bought into what was said about it to some degree, you know, and there are some truth in everything that said.
But the more, especially in the last few years, as I've looked into it more, and especially in the last few weeks, as I've talked to all these people that knew him. I've started to understand that kind of the assassination and character assassination attempts on people and the media and what they can do to people. There was they did a lot of that to him. I mean, he brought a little bit of it on himself, but there was a lot that.
Lyndon nor the Kennedy's wanted wanted him out talking or funding LBJ or involved, and the attack on him was brilliant attack on LBJ, and there was no way to really get him off without incriminating LBJ.
So LBJ just kind of left and the.
Rod So I've you know, I look at it differently now, much different lens today than I did even two months.
Ago, right, And I mean there's a lot to be said there, because again it's interesting. I mean, we even know that the you know, the Johnson estate through Ladybird was still you know, utilizing influence over the media and things like that. I mean decades later Johnson's dead in what seventy one, I think, but for decades the influence would still be there. There was pressures on people not
to discuss things, media companies, people that weren't connected. So I can imagine somebody who did who was in that universe would be pressured as well. But these tapes, and this is the important thing, right, because these tapes are crazy in that I mean, there's a portion here where you have a guy like, I don't know, maybe maybe Larry, you should explain Cliff Carter for a moment, and we should talk about who's on this tape here, because we're
hearing about your granddad. He's one of the voices on the tape. But there's another thing.
Yeah, I think that's a good idea, Chuck, because one thing I would recommend, and I'd recommend this to anybody who really wanted to understand the background of this story. Right, this story is is really about Billy saul SDS and Texas politics and the Democratic National Committee which Johnson set up from the Beguinea. There was there was no real
Democratic National Committee until Johnson or Republic. Johnson came up with this concept of collecting money and partiallying it out nationwide two different Democratic campaigns, but obviously to the Democrats he wanted to give it to, and so he created this whole concept of going out and getting big donors, kind of bringing them inside the administration, giving them special access getting their money, but not necessarily even the LBJ, which is kind of different for LBJ, but to the
DNC as a slush fund as a pack. A lot of what we're seeing right now came out of this era in time at around nineteen sixty fifty eight to sixty and if Billy Solestes played a major role in coming up with money to go to the DNC, and that was all administered by the head of the DNC, who was Cliff Carter. Cliff Carter wasn't really as part of the Johnson administration per se. He was Johnson's political network,
political bag man, if you want to call him. That would recommend to anybody a book called Act of Treason by Mark North, and Mark actually digs into a huge amount of detail in you know, people I think maybe think that Billy saw ST's did have a lot of money, and he did have a private aircraft, and he did loan it to the d n C, and he did
send money to Washington DC. Mark even found copies of you know, hundreds of thousands of dollars sent to the DNC, and SD's did have contacts into the Agriculture Department with Secretary Freeman, so st was very much embedded in both the DNC and the AGG Department, which is the source of a lot of the scandals that get talked about, and they were there. But Cliff Carter, you need to kind of compartmentalize in your mind. Is he's a Johnson political aid. He's not so much administration per se. Is
he's an organizer for Johnson, collect money, disperse money. So that's who he really is. And when these when these scandals started to emerge circa nineteen sixty one out in pay Cooas, it was tremendously embarrassing fort Johnson because there are documented connections their letters and yes, he brought sds to the inauguration for he and Kennedy and so there's you know, there's no doubt about these connections and of vests taking advantage of them. He has access to Freeman's
at and it's embarrassing for JFK. Not I will say, not nearly as embarrassing as the Bobby Baker scandal, which would come up in sixty three with Johnson. But in its day, it was you know, national news. It wasn't just Texas. It wastional news. The local newspaper reporter who broke the scandal got a Pulitzer for covering the STS
scandal out in West Texas. So I got to say one thing you have to consider in nineteen sixty two, you know, sixty one, sixty two into sixty three, ST's was a well known national name, probably more so than Cliff Carter because Carter is kind of behind the scenes, but EST's was very prominent nationwide.
Right. So these two men that are clearly involved in shaping what it is we're dealing with today when it comes to the national committees. And you know how they created these funds to be able to push them around to do things like influence elections in other states and stuff like that. The stuff that we see above board today. This was just coming into existence at this time. And why are we talking about Cli Carter? Well, he's the
other guy on the phone for this conversation. And I don't know if I was Billy Celesti's I might have been taping everything, to be honest with you, but it seems as though he was, you know, because I wouldn't have trusted the circumstance I was in. Again, I'm thinking defensively here.
Yeah, Billy sawt in nineteen eighty four, Billy Saw when he was making his Grandeur appeal, right, told his lawyer Douglas Caddy, that he had taped everything. He never trusted any of these people, so he was making tapes all the time.
Right, right, and anyway, So back to you now, you know, mister Stevens, I gotta say that this is interesting because tell people, I mean, if they haven't heard the tape, and I'm gonna give you guys a link to go and listen to it for yourselves. There's only one place I've seen it now available on the internet. Just a little snippet, but you know, kind of describe if you wouldn't mind what's on the tape.
I will, and it's if it's okay.
I just want to kind of rewind back on a couple of things to catch up.
I've just been making notes.
Absolutely please do just for.
The record, LBJ he died in nineteen seventy.
Three, seventy three, and okay, yeah, and.
That's important because this tape I believe it was recorded in nineteen seventy one, so as you know, a couple of years perhaps before LBJ had passed away.
That's why I'm making up seventy one. Okay, my mistake there, I'm thinking seventy one, but it's seventy three that Johnson died. In my mistakes.
Thank you, Yes, sir and Larry, you're the real deal.
The amount of history and factual information that you have is it possibly surmounts to most of the other folks that have reached out to me since this, And in fact I did not know that basically Johnson and Carter created the DNC. I've had several people posting and saying and texting, oh my gosh, this kills the DNC. That makes more sense now after what you just taught me about that. But one thing we're discussing also was how
all these stories get shut down. And in the seventies, at the time of lbj's death, he was worth about twenty five million, and to put that into terms today that that correlates into probably two hundred and fifty million, two hundred and seventy million, such huge. I mean, we look at Barack Obama coming out of office, and he's worth twenty five million in today's dollars. Well, this would be like him coming out and being worth two hundred
and fifty two hundred and sixty million. My granddad had said that he personally gave him approximately ten million over the years, and whether that went into it directly to his bank account or into you know, funding different folks. Either way, there's there's a big legacy and then a big pile of money and wealth that was left behind.
And so Jack Paline was pointed pointed over the Motion Picture Association and his job and then he died or left that was to protect any motion picture coming out, to ensure that nothing would come out against LBJ and could harm that reputation and that legacy. And then there's also another guy, I think his last name was Johnson that was put in with CNN that was overall of
the media to help protect and cover that up. So there were a bunch of different angles put forth to try and suppress the truth, just like we've seen.
In you know, the last decade. But you know, there was a lot going on to suppress that.
And you're right there, there are a bundle of tapes out there, and this one is you know, one of the most damning, and there's others that I've heard of and folks that supposedly have them, but you know, nobody's willing to let go of those or share those at this point, so I trust they'll come out in time be to get to your question, Chuck, about what's on the tape. You know, if you'd like, I can play it, I can play part of it, or I can just fill you guys in on what's on there.
However you'd like to approach that.
Yeah, sure, if you're able to play it like nice and loud, and we'll hopefully see if people can hear it. If not, I can go to the link and play it on the show here either way, because I don't have a digital copy myself, But go right ahead if you want to try and play it. I'll mute up, and I'm sure Larry'll mute up and we'll just listen. If you want to play it, you have it ready.
I do.
And for the viewers, as Larry mentioned, it's super important to research and start looking into the names of this Cliff Carter and who he is. You can go on to Oval office tapes and Spartaca's educational listen to Cliff Carter's voice.
And I know my granddad's voice for sure.
But when I first had these tapes transcribed, I looked up Cliff's voice.
Just to make sure that it was real and you can tell it's the same guy talking.
But anyways, I'll hit play on it and just tell me if y'all can hear it loud enough if it's coming through.
Sure, if you didn't.
See has on treating.
Today West I, it's been pretty touch and those situations. London and I've had one a few unpleasant words here lately over the deal with that he hired Mike Wallace to assassinated. It's been sactic in every way, but we've lived through this far. I guess we'll continue to do so. London should. I'll never pisued that order.
To Mike.
But we've had our differences in I'm a true blue to Lendon, as I've always been and tried to carry out every order that he'd.
Never given me.
But this is one or problems never be able to forget. And the times that we've had in in Texas. Yeah, my embarrassment to Lendon has gotten from Kennedy. I guess there wasn't anything else to do.
But what he did, well, you know London that already hit anything was.
Well, London's kind of person who doesn't want to have anyone. He's you know, he's all for London, and.
That's way pretty much always did for They had meat that's on that Henry Marshall Kendan and they just kind of blackmailed me to keep my mouth shut. And if I hadn't had a bunch of tames that I played after I got killed, if you know, seventeen got killed.
In this situation, very mysterish me h.
And I've found a lot of time and I've lost a lot of money into hurt my fame the whole lot, and it's it's.
Really got me.
Just discussed it up with London in one way.
In one way, sorry hard, but.
I really feel like that in Lendon's hard he fail like that he was doing the right thing.
He felt like that.
He was a favor of the commons.
Man.
I feel like that in his heart he wanted to have people that has not. But I don't believe that anything. When I heard about the background, would have never let me thanking all the killings that he has done. What do you think about itself? Well, and you really believe it it could have been handled anyway without killing all these people who got rid of a kin. If you're thinking that one election against him.
Well, I don't really believe so he really definitely to do just that, So there didn't seem to be any other way. He I only he regrets a lot of the things that he has done. But still it's been.
About what they want. There less you do appreciate all the things that you've done for them.
Clarishment.
I appreciate the trusted and you've had any time for a long time friends. And I'm just sorry that I've embarrassed all my friends, all my friends through this. Oh you didn't embarrass me in what I was really afraid of my brother job that.
Got killed, our plaim was.
Down at Brian the day that Mike Waller's killed or Marshall, and I break that's gonna tie him into the same and we couldn't afford to.
In fact, Pam start to write a book.
From when she she really got scared, when she got anything.
It was just.
It was just too scary a deal.
But anyhow, this this too will pass. Well, it's been long long, old Hearney, what do you think about Tepo Bankston, Well, the old little great leader that he's been prob one of us things that are wrapping out of Texas.
Of course, she's got a lot lot of river good friends, and Linda has been one of his true buddies for many many years. With anything that he just have to'll be able to see this.
You know.
And I just can't believe that Definel banks and has.
There over the police department that he has.
You know, he ad buys every year of the sheriff as my brand new car, Bill Decker, And I just don't see how politically he can get with it that nobody will ever understand. In really thirty years, I thought that Glennon really had a mission from my higher power whose I choose to cald God, to carry out a lot of things for the common people. And I really believe in his heart that he thought that he was destined to.
Room people.
How to his size up Glendham Cliff after all these years of horror, Well, actually London's uh just been kind of going downhill hose politically wise, he's just wore out.
And uh, I feel like kids.
Come to his end of its role.
But all these things has been eating on him for all these years and just found taking his course. And I feel one who liked.
Done a lot of good things they love, and he's done a.
Lot of bad things.
The clear I hate disease and down trying and and so this carried and I just hope that you can get a hold of yourself and not vice of tored anyhow that's going to happen. Let's have a cup of coffee and sunday.
Okay, sounds good?
Means So, now that is an incredible conversation, which again I I don't know if anybody's ever heard that much of it publicly even but man, you know you've got the the hen Henry Marshall death reference here, which again if you watch that Man Who Killed Kennedy episode you know about that even, you know, in a cursory sense. But also he mentions his uh, Saul's brother, right, he mentions he was killed. Now, I don't know he didn't implicate anybody directly there, but if it's in this conversation,
that's another thing to consider. And mister Stevens, you know anything about that or is there something to that which I just heard?
You know, It's funny there are so many little trails that you could run off on researching this, Like I've tried to look up F. O. Bankston and then you know, I guess Bill Decker to see, I'm assuming that those were actual people and the head of police in Dallas.
And well somebody.
Bill Decker was the sheriff of the county there. He was the county sheriff at the time Kennedy was assassinated by the bike.
All right, So basically that's like him, I think, telling on him that he was involved in it.
He's in the motor paid, he's in the motorcaid for God's sake, Oh my lord.
So it is a lot.
I think all these words, little sentences and different things probably have more meaning than I know. But guys like you can, just like you said, I can kind of break this deal apart.
But with Uncle, I think it's Uncle Bam. I believe he died, may have been in a plane crash. I've been told before.
I'm sorry, my memory's not that good and I don't mean to be disrespectful to my family members have passed away, but I.
Don't recall specifically. Now.
I also don't believe that it was anything suspicious as far as they're.
Thinking, Oh, that's okay. It's just that since he mentioned it in the midst of this conversation. I'm thinking to myself, maybe it's got something to do with it. And that's the other thing is Cliff Carter doesn't balk during these discussions, says himself, Mac Wallace was sent to kill Kennedy. I mean in this conversation, and you know, Cliff Carter doesn't go, hey, hey, wait a minute, you know that's not right. No, he
says it himself. And yeah, Larry, I mean, like, try and give us a little context here for a lot of what you just heard, if you don't mind. And then I want to go back to mister Stevens on it and get what he knows personally. Again, but I did want to ask directly about your uncle there. Look, I don't necessarily know how my uncles died either, but you know, it's one of those things. But I just heard it on there, and I said to myself, is
this involved in it too? Who knows quite honestly? Or did he have a suspicion even if it was a plane crash, right, could he have felt like maybe that was a warning shot at him? Or who knows? You know, I don't necessarily know without being able to speak to your granddad myself, right, and hearing this tape, so I wouldn't know what was in his mind when he brought that up. But Larry, do you have any thoughts on what you just heard or have you heard all of this before, etc.
Well, I've heard the fundamentals before. And actually again this goes back to Billy Saul's interview with William Ramon for the book that was published only in France, by the way, and in that I've got notes from the interview and he was very straightforward in terms of you know, the murders, and he provides some more detail in that. You've always got a segment what Carter would have known, what he
would have told SDEs about any of the murders. But I think one thing, and we can confirm Billy Sall that did say in the interview that he had talked with Carter about the Marshall relate murders at the time. And Henry Marshall was actually murdered in nineteen sixty one before this whole scandal came out. Now this is earlier timeline is important. SDS and the scandal were not really
in the press at that point in time. Investigations were being started within the Department of agriculture because things had been pointed out and leases and properties, and that there was an investigation going on at the time. Marshall, who had signed off on a lot of things that actually
turned out not to have been there, was killed. So if you compartmentalize these murders, and the murders and suicides involved people that were in agriculture and in the businesses that were Billy Sauw were in, and even the insurance
side of ensuring those assets. There were not just Marshall, but there were other at that point in time, and that's pretty well documented because basically when Estes was paroled is last time and came out of prison, he decided to seek basically an overturn of some of the charges
against him, even compensation for some things. And he involved not only Douglas Caddy, but he got a lot of support from Clinton Peoples, who was a Texas ranger that had been involved in investigating especially the Marshall murder, and
People's made a very good case for the murder. And based on People's case, the murder, the death came back to a grand jury and Billy sol Estes was invited to testify and took that point in time to initiate this process with Caddy and to jump start the whole thing. So I guess in terms of contact we have a
lot more detail. And this this really all started with the murderers out in West Texas, Marshall and the other AGG and SDS related business people, so that that part almost stands on its own, especially with the investigation that People's did, which is well documented. The JFK thing was kind of an add on at the last uh. And by the way, just for context, and the connection between Johnson and Macwallace is well documented. Mac Wallace had worked
in the AGG department. Johnson kind of had the AGG department and his control for a good period of time there. And uh, mac Wallace had indeed killed a fellow who was competing for the affections of Johnson's sister. And there's no doubt about that. Johnson.
You're talking about Douglas Kinser, right, Yeah.
Douglas Kinser and Josepha Johnson and Johnson did again the strong case that Johnson intervened and interfered with the witnesses and comper wise witnesses and Wallace got off. So there's a lot of dirtiness even before this begins. But I guess what I'm really trying to say that the connection
between Johnson and Macwallace, for that is well established. The connection between SD's Marshall mac Wallace and the murders out in West Texas is well established, and that was all kind of setting there, and that was kind of the basis for this appeal to the Grand Jury that ST's launched and offered, offered those tapes that you that are
being talked about here. He offered all of those tapes which would have discussed that dirty business in West Texas as part of the deal, and actually got as far as the DOJ became involved. The ga DJ got in contact with him and even had a meeting with him in which he was supposed to turn over tapes and other documents, but they would not guarantee immunity. And because they would not guarantee immunity, they've met like a motel
conference room. They met. It's kind of like and at the last minute, it's kind of like, unless I have written offer of immunity or guarantee of immunity, I'm not handing this off. And the whole thing collapsed at that point in time. So that's just a little background to separate. There's a lot going on with this beyond JFK and Carter and Johnson and what may have been going on there, right right.
So, mister Stevens, were you aware of this at the time at all or did you become aware of this later? Regarding that the whole circumstance that Larry just laid out.
Yeah, I mean I've learned more and more about it over the years, and plot twist to some degree add to it.
So Mac Wallace or Malcolm wall his family has reached out to me and they were a little bit shocked, but their family stories and family secrets aligned with our family stories and family secrets, so at some point they're not comfortable. They're like, Shane, if you're still alive in a month and a half or so, we'll probably go on and talk about it.
But they had the same.
Fears, just like you talked about Henry Marshall. For the audience, I think it's important for them to know that he was found dead on his farm in Robertson County or Robinson County, and he had five bullet wounds across his chest. He had a contusion to his head, they later exumed him from his grave and did a test and they found sixteen percent poisoning from carbon monoxide in.
Him, but that was ruled a suicide. And even j Edgar Hoover.
Who was as corrupt as the day is long and was huge part of LBJ and his control and influence, he said, I cannot see how a man could shoot himself five times with the twenty two long rifle.
Yeah, it's pretty hard to do.
But the judicial system, the courts, the coroner, everybody had reason.
I supposed to rule that a suicide.
And so when Saul got out, one of the things out of prison in the eighties one of.
The things he wanted to do was write the shit there.
And the spouse of mister Marshall, she was finally able to get insurance payout because they wouldn't pay out life insurance to her any insurance because it was ruled a suicide. But based on the testimony that my granddad gave and really common sense.
We know that it wasn't a suicide. It was overturned.
But yeah, so everything Larry's just said again factual history.
Anybody can look it up.
There's nothing conspiratorial or questionable about anything that Larry said.
It's all just plain simple facts.
Oh no, I do my very best to not come on here with a lot of like if I say something that's speculative, believe me, I'd say this is all speculation. When Larry speaks, you don't hear me qualifying what he's saying, do you know?
Business?
Yeah, No, I wish I to get offered a little bit more. I almost had a chance to. When the martial death was being investigated by the FBI, a family friend of ours named Jelly Brice actually went down to West longtime very famous FBI officer and crack pistol shot went down to Pey Coast to investigate, and he said, actually asked my brother if he wanted to come along, because he thought it was really strange and he was
really going to look into it. My brother told me, you know, I really really missed going on that trip. I should have gone down there and hear what he had to say about it. But when he came back, he was just shaking his head kind of like no, no, no, that doesn't.
Stick, doesn't work anyway. But getting back to the direct connection here, a lot of things get opened up, you know, because of this audio if you think about it, and again, look, it's not even a definitive. This is Cliff Carter saying this. This is you know, your granddad saying this. And you know what knowledge did they have or what knowledge were they given to is yet another story and you got to very carefully examine that, especially considering we don't have
these people to talk to anymore. Right, we can't cross examine this exactly. What all we can do now is to look back and try and put the pieces together. And these are some incredible pieces. And meanwhile, you're telling me there's a there's bundles of audio out there, and one might ask why why now? Let's say, why now would be the best time or do you think it was a good time to finally surface this because obviously it's existed since nineteen seventy one, this tape, And why
is now a good time? I mean Granddad's been gone, like you said, more than a decade, right, so right, you know why now? Exactly?
Well, the timing of it is fascinating, and I'll fill you in on the detail.
But really, even just today, and do you guys think about it, You're in the middle in amidst a big part of American history, right.
Smack dab in the middle of it.
Because if that tape is true, and if you know, we find out from the release of the JFK files what I'm assuming may be in there, then it says so much about what our countries come from and the deceit that we've endured as an American public. But just today, there's a lady Anna Paulina that's heading up the task force, and she says, based on what she's seen, there were two shooters. And then based on this tape and based on what I've heard little family secrets, it sounds like
there was always more than one shooter. And again common sense leads us to that to some degree as well.
But are the timing you know, I've.
It was kind of put on me to take the real tapes, the original tapes from the family, and I'm the oldest grandson, so I suppose it makes sense. But then once I converted it over to digital, which that's kind of a funny story in itself, and I've distributed multiple copies of that out to.
Everybody to hold on to.
And that was just kind of the same concept as my granddad if you know something happens to these tapes or to me, well, at least there's a copy of it that survives, it can be released in time.
To share the truth.
And it's probably to some folks, especially outside of this LBJA ECO system, like they probably think it's crazy to be afraid or concerned about your Locke being in danger sixty years after something happened. But I can tell you that that fear has been real within the family and nobody really wanted to go about releasing it or.
Taking that risk.
And Frankly, the only times that I've pulled this tape out the digital recording to let people hear it were you know, a few.
Friends or folks that were fighting for the right reason.
So you know, at one point I went to around table with President Trump and the schedulers supposedly had let him listen to it. I let Don Junior listen to it. I've let Ken Paxson listen to it. Several key people that are fighting, you know, the goodbye from Frankly, the fight that I think JFK.
Was fighting, and.
Ultimately I wanted to warn them that they they could be in the crosshairs. And it turns out. Obviously we've seen what happened. Because ultimately, if they can't get people to back down, slow down, stop attacking what a lot of power and wealth has been built off of, they'll do whatever it takes to get rid of them.
Yeah. Well there you see. Now, you and I could disagree on a lot of steps along the way to that statement, but that's that's the truth of it is that, you know, if the powers that be don't want you to speak or don't want certain facts to be known, there is no end to the amount of damage they're willing to do or the amount of death they're willing to cause in their own cause. You know, that's something I think you and I would absolutely agree on, regardless
of politics, regardless of them. I mean, this is just the way of the world. You know, if you need to be shut down by those who have money and power, you will be. I mean, it's just that simple.
That should scare every American, whether you're a Democrat, Republican, libertarian, centrist. If our government and powers that be are more powerful than our president and can hide and run covert operations that none of us and even the President note don't know about, that's a problem that's not a real functioning democracy.
Right, Absolutely true. So let's go a little further here. I mean, what what else in this I mean outside of the grand statement you just made. And I'm glad you did, uh, you know, because you're basically saying, look, this needs to be done. You're taking it upon yourself. You realize that there's some risk of doing this. Uh. And I'm really grateful that you're sharing even this part of it with me, uh and and with with a
you know, those listening and Larry. I mean, this is a really this is a really a great privilege to be able to hear these things and to uh to get a look at, you know, a real intimate look quite honestly at something that has been just sort of discussed, just sort of floated out there, uh, in the past. And I'm really really grateful. I want to thank you
for doing that first of all, before I forget. But uh, you know, but but what what is it that you know, the rest of the story that needs to be told? What do you what do you think it is here?
Well, now, I think if you look at.
The overall case, the overall wealth, it's concerning that we've got, you.
Know, monuments and highways.
And you name it named after an individual who theoretically, based on this tape and based on some other evidence, had a president of the United States killed essentially a coup of taking over from them. So grasping that and then essentially looking at the ripple effects because if that's the case, it wasn't just LBJ involved, I mean that means Hoover was involved.
Now that means you've got CIA involvement. That means you've got at.
Beyond that means you have the sheriff have in Dallas and their police department involved.
And then what happened with those people, Well, all.
These names that have been alleged to be involved, mine O, Dulls, you name it. They've risen to massive levels of wealth and power. And there's some folks that say that we've elected very few presidents, truly elected them since the sixties that you know, for the most part, they've controlled the elections and we've just kind of been puppets to whoever they choose to put in power. And they've made massive amounts of wealth and money off of the taxpayers backs.
So that's been going on for sixty years. The implications are huge, but we also have the chance right now to clean it up and fix that and talk about an amazing era going forward of what this country could look like in the level of prosperity that the American people could achieve.
Well, fair enough, is there anything else that we need to sort of wrap around on this, Larry, you think anything else that we should mention here in fairness to make sure the context is all there? I absolutely leave with you because I think this is you know again, it's a remarkable piece of tape, and there's more. But nonetheless, I mean, what do you think, Larry.
Well again, some context, because we already like context going all the way back to this period of time nineteen
ninety nine, nineteen eighty eight when I first learned of this. Actually, there is a lot that could be done in terms of investigating Johnson, as you know, check in my book Someone would Have Talked twenty ten, I lay out three chapters that present Johnson as an accessory perfectly honest, I still have a lot of tactical and logistics problems seen as him as the only person involved in this, like he and Cliff Carter and Mac Wallace did this with
their own initiative by themselves. But in the book, I lay out the case against both Cliff Carter and Lyndon Johnson, why they would have participated, why they would have been involved, how Johnson would have been connected to the rest of the conspiracy, even the timeline, and I think that's important.
So I guess what I'm really saying is, if we can get some more documents, there are things that we already know that are suggestive about Cliff Carter's involvement, not with mac Wallace, I mean, and by the way, supposedly in the scenario from Billy Saw, mack Wallace was shooting from the grassy knoll. He was not shooting from the book depository. We should probably get this on record. The scenario that I had in my notes and that he told Ramond was that mac Wallace was shooting from the
grassy hole. Mac Wallace or Cliff Carter had hired Jack Ruby, who had hired Lee Harvey oswall as kind of a gun for hire, and he was shooting from the Texas School Book Depository. So there were two shooters. But that's the scenario that's presented that way. But there aside from that, there are a lot of things that Cliff Carter did in regard to the trip to Dallas, his communications with Jack Peter Bow. Jack Peter Bow was the agg Department aid from the White House to actually run the motorcade
and did a lot of details. People heard from Pewter Bowl and they thought it was the Secret Service, and when secret Service was questioned, they lost in The Secret Service chief of the motorcade said no, that wasn't me, that was Peter Bow. He put the cars in that sequence, he moved the motorcycles. He You know, we have people that say at the very last minute the motorcycles were stripped off the rear of the President's car by somebody
who came over from the Vice President's vehicle. There. This has been explained in the past because of Johnson trying to minimize Kennedy's political impact in Texas. That's a longstanding argument. But I guess, guess kind of to wrap up your question, there is a lot of room. We already know a lot that would have made Cliff Carter suspicious and Lyndon Johnson suspicious before the fact and after the fact. So there's a lot of room to investigate their involvement. And
I had thought from the very beginning. This is even with the had airing the tape, hearing it described to me, and with what I found out about Cliff Carter and the motorcade and the Texas trip, there was ample reason to be suspicious of he and Johnson. So with that a start as a starting point, it would be fascinating.
I don't know if anybody what consmirms me about the documents is nobody really investigated Cliff Carter and Lyndon Johnson, even though as during the Garrison investigation there were claims that were made in Worshington d C. By John Roselli and remarks that he passed on up the channel. Johnson was scared even in nineteen sixty nine that people were coming forward and we're going to accuse him of the crime.
And we've got all of that documented too. So there's a large story here for Johnson and for Cliff Carter. I just I don't know how much more we can get out of the documents, but it might be possible to get some more secondary testimony and an investigation of it. And I, for one, I agree with point that Linda Johnson was intensely corrupt, and I would say it is it is very unsatisfying to have his name on so many things with how corrupt we know he now was.
And it galls me to hear those guys talking on the tape about Linda Johnson like having good intentions and will follow him to the end regardless. It's kind of like, you guys, listen to yourself talking and you know he killed people. What's going on with that tape? It's like, how can they even be talking that way about Linda Johnson. Oh, I'm I'm tied to him to the end. I'm always going to be his man. It's like, what the heck?
Yeah, there's something, there's something really special there because again, you know this guy whenever Johnson comes up in discourse now right, the civil Rights Bill? Uh, you know he
was a good guy, right, he's the uh. And I'm like, how is it that these historians, I mean, there's I'm not even gonna name the guy who's got like three volumes out there on Lyndon Vans Johnson, right, who mentions zero of his corruption, I'm pretty sure throughout his books because all he does is talk about, you know, this Greek president that came up at a time of tragedy and had to inherit all the mistakes of the Kennedys. And I'm going, man, you know, are you not looking
at the whole of the of the man here? Are you not looking at the rest of the story. It kills me?
You know, And we even note check we eveund know this is historical record. Manchester did this. We would know. Johnson spent the whole night after the assassination at home at his house talking to his political coronis about exactly how they were going to take over the Kennedy agenda. Yeah, we've got people being interviewed about how Johnson is list literally going to lift that and make it his own.
Yep. Absolutely, And you know, just I guess as a final thought here, unless you've got something else that you think we missed, mister Stevens, I mean, what are your thoughts about that? I mean, that's That's really the thing that's incredible here is that still to this day, right
LBJ is this celebrated figure. And you know, look, we should be honest about what it is we're looking at here, and we should get honest about who it is has been in charge, as you and I both agree, But I mean, for God's sake, you know, something needs to be done here about balancing the record at least, don't you think you know I do.
And you know, another thing I was just thinking of as far as you know, a lot of folks not watching the negative comments off.
You know, Saul's a con.
Man and this is a generated and you know all these things. But you know, perhaps we can pretend that that is part of it. But if you're on that side of it, just pretend, try pretending that it's real, and then start looking in to all of it, like, okay, well if this is real, then the Warren Commission was a sham, all right, Well who's on the Warren Commission?
And then start looking too all those people and I guarantee, I mean, it's a whole web that somebody with the you know, right amount of time, resources and access could dig into and you know, figure out so much about our political past and the corruption and who was corrupt and who was on the take.
And you know, I think a lot of it was.
JEdgar Hoover had tapes and information on so many people and they'd set them up. But then they worked together, him and LBJ and LBJ, even my granddad.
He was most fascinated with LBJ.
He had seen plenty of wealth, he'd seen plenty of power, but he had never seen anybody wheel power like LBJ.
And he was fascinated by it. He was enamored by it. And you know, obviously it ended up negatively impacting him and his leg.
See, so I think there's a lot more to be unpacked with it. This is kind of the tip of the Osburg and I hope you guys can run with it and take it because y'all are both highly educated on this topic and had the passion for it.
So I'd love to follow up with y'all and see where it goes.
Well, absolutely, I mean we I know I'm going to follow up on this, and I'm going to encourage others to do the same, especially some friends I have in Texas. And I'm really glad that Larry got involved in this. And just for the record, somebody noted to me on Skype and I think they didn't hear me earlier when I said, because they heard Bill Decker mentioned on the tape. Bill Decker is actually I said he was in the motorcade. But let me let me clarify that for you. He's
in the lead car in the motorcade. He's in the pilot car of the motorcade. Mister Stevens. Okay, wow, that's wow. That's he's in. He's there with Jesse Curry. Jesse Curry's on the radio if you've heard the radio transmissions. But
in that car with him is Sheriff Bill Decker. And the majority of the first statements taken by witnesses that I used to have to go through when I was trying to determine, you know, exactly what happened what witness saw what are referred to as Decker exhibits because they were taken by the Sheriff's department. Okay, and they're literally if you if you even attempt to enter him into into evidence somewhere, they're referred to as Decker exhibits. I'm not sure if the all.
The depositions were taken in the Sheriff's department.
Yeah, there you go. Yeah, I'm not making it. To see Larry's verifying what I'm saying. I'm not making it up. This is what I know. I dug through so well.
And then Larry's one thing that I did, like our little family.
Side of it was supposedly at Matt Wallace was in the repository, is what we've always heard, and there was a fingerprint of his. I've got a video that was recorded and it was one of the former best fingerprint ID guys out there, and he says it's a match of that.
And then the other thing.
That we've always thought or been told was that the shooter wasn't actually on the grassy knowle, that the shooter was behind a fence.
At the edge of the grassy nole. Was the second shooter. And then there's a slight possibility I've heard, and I don't think it's from my granddad, was from one of his friends, that there was potentially a third one. But I don't have anything to really go off on that.
Well a couple of things. That fingerprint has been since disputed quite well by a better finger and believe it or not, I tracked through to figure out who paid the guy that you're talking about that looked at that fingerprint. I went through all of that. It's actually a friend of mine that wrote that check that. It's it's really interesting, but you know, he he was mistaken, it seems like. But even so, that doesn't put Macwallace out of play. It just kind of puts him away from that fingerprint
in my mind now and there. And there's a pretty good book out there called Faustian Bargain if you ever want to pick it up, that actually contains an appendix with that evidence in it.
Uh.
And it was something that an author named Joan Mellon did. She hired people to do it and compared it with Macwallace's military record fingerprints.
So I end upending on how far I want to go with this deal and how many of these I want to do.
I probably need to start research and I'm learning all that.
Yeah, No, I'm just I'm just letting you know that there's a dispute on that. But again, I would place that shooter not on the knowle anyway. I would place that shooter somewhere near a fence, like you're saying, based on the work of forensics people who have who have guessed as to where the trajectory would have come from if people had done the right investigation in the first place,
you know. And here's where I have to mention somebody like Sherry Feaster And I'm sorry, go ahead, Larry, you were going to say something.
I'm just going to say, be prepared to devote a good time. I think I probably look over. I've probably got a six inch stack of papers dealing with that fingerprint in the TSBD and how it came to attention, and the arguments for it and the arguments against it, and and oh he only he only identified the fingerprint after somebody told him about a damage to the hand.
That would I mean, But the point is, there are all I guess this is what I was referring to, are the notes from Ramon's interview with Billy Saw as to what he said then, and then you know that. So that's way back in time. But absolutely the debate about the fingerprint pros and cons is a deep one, involving multiple print experts, and you know, good luck. That's kind of like I hope you gained back the time
I lost working on it. But regardless of that, one of the things we had discussed is irrespective of that, I would say, irrespect of Eve, even Macwallace, Prince or in the school Book Depository or whatever, there are things by themselves to connect Carter and Johnson even without that, and directly connect Carter. I'm talking about things relating to the motorcade, things recating to the plan, things relating to
Johnson that night. Even if Macwallace was not part of the equation, there's a case to be made against Lyndon Johnson as a prime suspect, regardless of that. So wherever you get to on their fingerprints or whoever said, well, I think there would be a case there regardless.
And here's the other thing, your granddad. And this is absolutely not meaning any sort of offense, but here's the thing. Your granddad is in no way claiming to have been there. So what he would have gotten would have been secondhand. But in his case, it's a hell of a second hand because you know.
He said his deal was he was supposedly supposedly at the White House with Cliff Carter, mac Wallace and LBJ when LJ said we're.
Going to move forward with this, right, And so yeah, he wasn't. There wasn't a part of it.
Didn't help in the planning, and he took that to his grave that he was not a part of killing him. He actually liked Kennedy. He's got a thing that was, you know, signed to him from Kennedy.
Right, So it wasn't it wasn't necessarily his doing, but he knew that he had get killed regardless.
But I think big picture, a lot of folks can get hung up on you know, was Mac him, the repository was Mac?
There was Mac, This was LBJ involved. The big picture.
One thing that we can all agree on is that, you know, our senses, like our God given sense, tells us that we did not get the full truth, that there were a lot of things left out. We've been lied to. And I think that's the common thread that makes this whole mystery so fascinating to people, is what is the truth? Because we know damn good and well we didn't get the truth, no doubt about that exactly.
So with that, I don't think you want to put out contacts or anything for people to get a hold of you, mister Stevens, right, and not directly anyway, No, I.
Do, just because the first time I did this was everybody started reaching out to my different businesses and tracking me down through different means and avenues. So I just set up a couple of things. So one of them is on Twitter and it's just Shane Stevens TX SO SAH and E st E V E N S t X and then I set up a little website and it's just Stevens s T e v e N S Team six and that's the number six. So Stevens Team six dot com. And please don't do go reach up
the businesses. Everybody kind of freaks them out. So just if you need to contact me, contact me.
Through that, all right. So that's what we'll look at, is the Shane Stevens t.
X on Twitter right, yes on X now.
I X right Twitter X. I keep doing that. Sorry for years I was on Twitter. Now I'm on X. Excuse me. But yeah, I'll actually go ahead and I haven't made contact with you there, but I'm gonna do that right now. And uh certainly I you know, bother him through that exactly. And the other one is Stevens Team you said.
Yes, Stevens Team six, so S T e v e N S T e A M and the number six dot com.
Excellent. All right, Well we will leave it at that, and who knows, maybe I'll ask you to do a follow up on this. I'm sure a lot of questions are going to come up when the podcast comes out and all that, Larry, is there anything else we need to say before we're all said and done here today.
No, I think that really covers it. I really appreciate that. A great discussion, and just let me know as soon as this is available online, so I want to do a blog on it myself, so that'll that's great.
I enjoyed it absolutely, and I think we did it a little different than you might have heard it elsewhere, but that is what we do here. So remember this, guys, I am merely O'Kelly, and all of you are indeed the effect. And I'll put the links in with the show notes so you can go ahead and follow Shane on Twitter. Obviously, I'll put Larry's links in there too, and you'll be able to follow up all you want.
And at all times I ask you go ahead and do your own research check into this, and at all times.
The Michelle dot com radio network word did you expressed?
My caller?
Schools?
There anyone else who happens to get on the air. Jelly dot com do not necessarily reflected the views of the Jelly dot Com or junko Jelly, and we are not responsible for any stupidity which might ensue.
Thank you.
In denial, secret wars with air strikes and tanks by Larry Hancock. Secret wars became a staple of US covert operations and are still happening today. Larry Hancock's book In Denial rips the cover off many of them, using new files.
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Yo, This Doug Campbell, host of the Dallas Action podcast presented by Wall Street Window. And you are listening to the o'chilly effect revelation through conversation.
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The War State by Michael Swanson explains the great national transformation that took place and put the Kennedy presidency in the context of the times, and reveals never before published information about the Cuban missile crisis. President Kennedy would not have been assassinated if he had been president two hundred years ago. His assassination took place in the context of the Cold War and the rise of the national security State.
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Oh no, and I'm sad.
I am and I'm in man, I'm gone up and I stand, I'm act mad.
I'm a fire brand up down, scrap out scrapp, gone down and gone down and got down.
Out.
Oh now album the sun with help fire on my youm of that show some one to go. I'm the best friend of your must I ass and on the exactly around on your master.
Be right down the guy, don't care up, go down, come down, come down and.
Go down by stop get ready for I'll.
Show you that. That's all you know as bud shilling and her bereepment.
Masonic energy known as bud shilling and your bereemptment