The Ochelli Effect 12-20-2024 Open Mic Friday Night with B Pete

What's in the news, what's not in the news, what's happening, what's not happening, What it is you want to see happening. How about what's going on in your life? I don't care. Whatever you want to discuss. You want to talk about the Batman movie style purp walk They gave Mangioni this week. The media was there. It was a big to do. Oh I guess, I don't know. Is it a big to do at this point? Oh? Yeah? What is it? Fanny Willis is now disqualified, So are they gonna retry

him in Georgia? Probably not? And guess what? All that stuff keeps evaporating. Somebody bearing a striking resemblance to myself said something like this, but you know, I don't know what I'm talking about, do I. Anyway, hopefully you guys enjoyed some of the podcasts from this week. I didn't get Larry's out yet, but we're gonna be talking about Syria.

That'll be coming out over the weekend along with this show and everything else that happens, plus whatever goes on at ten pm Eastern tonight, because the Age of Transitions begins here on o'chelly dot com and then uncle the broadcast. So we'll put out that podcast too at the end of the week here, probably around Sunday or so. I'll get them out, but we'll see. We'll see how it all goes. Anyway. Three one nine five two seven five

zero one six. That's the number to call, or you can reach out to me Charles dot Ucelli on Skype and if you want to do that, I'll more than happily try and add you into the show if you asked me to, and that's the way that goes. You can't call in on Skype, but I can add you into the show in the meantime. The only one that I've added into the show so far is my co host b Pete. How's it going to be, Pete? What's on your mind this week? Oh?

people still doing that? Do people travel anymore? I mean, is that a fake at this point?

is closing all their stores. They're going out of business, and they have been a staple in most major cities.

of the ultimate enemies of Trump, right, was Bezos. But now he's getting cozy with him and getting in on it with the inauguration and everything.

to deliver food, you know, grub Hub or whatever. You don't need a home office. I don't think. I'm just saying that the idea of the home office might be gone anyway.

Obviously you can change the direction of this discussion in any way you want, uh, and we're wide open to your suggestions, and who knows, maybe we'll pick up on something that you have to say and run with it for the rest of the show. I have no idea, because we're just going to fill the time up until just about ten pm Eastern here, so about an hour and forty minutes from now, you've got to call in. But if you don't join us, well then you missed.

What can I say? I'm still asking for suggestions as to whether we should expand the call in nights or not. Should we do it on other nights? Maybe Friday's not the right night. I let me know, you know, if we got to reorganize things. I'm looking to reorganize in twenty twenty five and do some different things. You might be able to tell that from some of the recent podcasts that you know. I'm changing directions a little bit. But we'll see. I want to hear from you guys.

What is it that I need to be talking about. Who do I need to be talking to? What do I need to be digging into you know, listeners supported, well, listener driven. Give me an idea what you want, and that's what will make happen. Anyway, it looks like we've got Jimmy James on the line, so let's see what he's got to say. B Pete, Jimmy, you're live man, what's on your mind this week?

they probably will return it back to you. I said, okay, And I waited six months and they never returned it back to me, and they never delivered it to you, So I have no idea what happened there. And it was like plus, I asked for a signature, but it never got to you, so you never got to sign it and it just disappeared. So the only thing to do? There is it? You have assurance? Yeah? Good.

And what what was weird about this is that the guy had it on eBay and thought that he was going to sell it for something like three thousand dollars. And I took a look at it, like, why in the hell would you think that a copy of just the Warren Report, minds you, not the twenty six volumes. You know, if he offered the twenty six volumes for

three grand, that's about the right price, right. And there's actually a guy who's got a whole set of House Select Committee volumes that is interested in selling them to me for seven hundred. But I can't get the seven hundred together. I mean, I'm never gonna be able to assemble that money, but I would love to own them.

But anyway, just the Warren Report itself, right, and the reason why this guy's trying to sell it for three grand is because he opened up the front page and if you notice, the report has those you know, facsimble signatures of all the Warren commissioners, right.

of their signatures. Anybody who has a copy of the of the Government Printing Office Warren Commission just the report. Anybody who has that copy, I think he turned like two three pages in, you'll see all of their signatures. I know I have one behind me on my bookshelf, but I might go get it in a minute or so, just to make sure I'm saying what I'm saying is correct. But I know it's in that volume, and all it

is is a reprinting of their signatures. So you know, and if you were to get even just the Warren Commission Report that is actually signed just by Gerald Ford. That goes for about three hundred dollars just Gerald Ford's signature, because he signed a special printing of the Warren Commission Report back in what two thousand and three or two thousand and four, somewhere in there he did, Yeah, he did.

And yeah, and you could buy those for about three hundred bucks a pop. And you know, some of them are still selling floating around at retail. They haven't gone up in value even though he died, you know. But yeah, so you know, and that's a presidential signature, So an original presidential what's that?

to sixty percent. And then as time goes on, you know, certain people become more and less important. Uh, and you'd be amazed, you know, like, and it's really funny because a guy like James Tag totally devalued his own signature. Did you know that.

it was a really cool book, right. And I have one of them over here, signed and I got one each from my children signed all kinds of stuff because I was talking to him, and you know, it was just a good thing to get. But here's the thing that I don't know if he realized it, but he totally devalued his own signature because he was running an eBay store for a little while, and it was a JFK Assassination eBay store, and a lot of people didn't

know it, but it was James Tagg's eBay store. So you would go on there and buy used JFK books, DVDs, VHS, tapes, photographs, all kinds of stuff right related to the assassination. A bunch of different things that he had just I don't know where he was getting hold of them from, but he would apparently collect him up from somewhere and then put him up on eBay and sell them. And that was like his little side hustle in his later years.

And as he put that, well, but he had his eBay store running and it was pretty successful, Like he would have hundreds of listings running all the time. Okay, so he had constant income from it. You can't, you know, look, I wouldn't begrudge the guy. If I had something like that that I could constantly market, I wouldn't say I wouldn't do it if I needed money, right, what the hell?

But the thing is that he kept including signed pictures like of the arrow where he was standing by the bridge, right, a black and white picture he would have like one of those photographic arrows like the strap booking arrows pointing to where he should be standing, and then he would sign his name. And then there were other photographs of himself that he would sign his name to. And he was giving these things to people every time they bought

stuff out of his eBay store. So it was like he must have given away thousands and thousands of his signature over and over again, plus all the stuff he signed at conferences, plus the stuff that he signed you know, just for individuals who found him here and there, anybody who ever interviewed him. If you sat down and talked to him face to face, he would sign anything he asked him to. He was very accommodating. But the thing is, at the end of the day, he probably put out

ten thousand signatures for nothing, you know. And in some cases, yeah, he sold them on his eBay store, but he sold them for like three dollars and four dollars for a photograph, so they was either cheap or free. You were constantly getting James Tagg's autographs, plus every one of his books

he signed and all that. Now that all happened. And then after that Witness to the Assassination book, he released another book, and his new book was all about how he was absolutely convinced from insiders and people he knew in Texas that Linda Bans Johnson is the sole responsible party for the assassination. He was an LBJ did it guy and was swearing up and down that that was

absolutely the truth. This and that and that book came out and around the time he started arguing with anybody who said anything any different in the research community, and as a matter of fact, very famously had a nasty meltdown on me personally because he said, you know, Linda Johnson's the man who did it, and blah blah blah, and he gives me all these things, and he starts telling me about you know, Matdeline Duncan Brown and how she's telling the whole world the truth and nobody will

listened to her. And I said, James, you know, I gotta tell you, I'm sorry. I'm not on board with this. You know, I don't buy it. And I know that Madeline Duncan Brown's full of craft, you know, because you know she she lied to a lot of people about a lot of things. And I'm not just saying about the assassination. She was a little She was a hustler. Even at the end of her life, she was facing criminal prosecution for check forgeries and stuff because she was

always connon people. Yeah, she was connon. Who was that?

say that, you know what was it? Jajegar Hoover was actually at the party. Oh yeah, yeah, he was there too, Like she forgot Jaeger Hoover was at the party all of a sudden. You know the party.

right and ready at six am in DC. It's a little tough to get him on a plane back to DC and back in place, fully dressed and you know, without being disheveled, tired or anything else, and operating for the rest of the day. That was problem number one I found. But then there were a bunch of people that she said, oh, this person was here or there, and they were actually noted and seen and surveilled outside of the country, you know, so they weren't in Texas, and I mean they weren't necessarily.

maybe she knew some of these famous people. Oh you know, did she know you know, these power brokers and oil men and probably you know, probably, But once you get past that and you get into specifics and this, you know, assassination party and all that, you lose me. You know.

I feel good about it. You know, he was probably in a celebratory mood until he realized, you know, that that he wasn't going to get to do what he wanted to do exactly, you know what I'm saying, Like, you know, he was happy at first because he wasn't going to get prosecuted for the insurance scams and the you know, defrauding the US government with the oil excuse me, the cotton allotments and you know, getting tax credits for unusable land that you know, and all this other garbage.

you know, happy for your success. If you can make a success out of creating podcasts or YouTube or whatever, you know what, all for you, man. I don't care if you're out there doing game plays or you know, if you're making your own cartoons, or if you're just sitting there doing movie reviews on YouTube or on a podcast, More power to you. I'm happy for you. You know, let us create real, organic media, created by real people so that the corporations don't you know, decide every single thing

that's on the menu. More power to you. But when I see these guys idiotically, you know, not questioning a whole lot of nonsense, and you know, and and sort of cozying up to only you know, the big rock stars sort of of the of the particular media thing they're into, you know, only getting close to the big names and the JFK community, and they advertise themselves as you know, only the big names in the JFK community want to talk to us, you know this kind of thing.

Right when I listen to that and I see Bob Goroden on there, and I say to myself, well, you know what more people need to hear from Bob Goroden because some of the core stuff that Bob Roden has

to talk about is absolutely essential and is priceless. And this guy actually participated in history because he had been, you know, there to testify to the Rockefeller Commission, right and part of his testimony to the Rockefeller Commission, and his showing the Zubruder film on first on local TV in Los Angeles and then nationally on Auraldo Rivera's show. That was actually the second time it was shown on TV in the US, but that was the first time

it was shown nationally. Just by him doing those things right there, the man participated in history, the creation of the House Select Committee on Assassinations, the interest that would snowball later, and the participation in the Oliver Stone film that would snowball again later that literally led to the creation of the AARRB. All connected through guess what. Bob Groden is present at all these events and is part of the motivating factor part of the presentation that got

people thinking. So you got to say to yourself that not only his treatment of and stabilization of the Zubruder film is something that if you think the jfk assassination was important, this man is a key figure in making sure that it didn't just disappeared down the memory hole, in making sure that the visual record of it was forever etched in our brains. And some of us are way past sick of seeing the Zabruder film because you know, how many other pieces of film can you think of

in your lifetime? Right, I mean, nobody would even watch pornography, the best pornography in the world that many times. I don't think the amount of times that you and I say I watched the Zabruder film is probably astronomical in number that twenty some odd seconds of film. Right, Well, he's responsible for access to that. Okay. That said, Bob has really bad ideas about a couple of things, and I mean I want to try and help him understand

that he's got some bad ideas. But at the same time time, I don't want to be seen as the guy attacking a guy who I think makes some of the greatest points, has made some of the greatest points, and has been again a key figure in the progress necessary to keep people engaged with the Kennedy assassination even as an issue. But the problem is, Yeah, that's.

this point will forever stick with me. You know, there were these guys that were doctors, that that were lawyers, that were you know, professionals of certain types, that were you know, involved in sophisticated computer technology and stuff like that, that lived in New Jersey, believe it or not, because they didn't want to live in New York and their business was done in New York, but they you know, actually kept their home and their family in Jersey, you know,

stuff like that. And they would have to get an idiot street kid like me to come in and set up their home theater systems. They would have to get a kid like me to come in and do stuff like that. They had no concept of how to run sound from you know, the television to the amplifier to this to the speakers. No clue. They would have no idea, Oh, a plug doesn't fit. We can't make this happen. It

doesn't come right out of the box fully assembled. They don't know anything they barely know how to turn the key on their own cars, so they go to somebody else who again is not necessarily harder than me, but has a base of knowledge as a mechanic, and you know, maybe they find out why their car doesn't turn over. Although when your doctor, lawyer, et cetera, you don't really have to do that because usually you just get another one. You know, no big deal that one no longer works.

Get another house is no longer good, buy another wife is kind of looking worn out, Let's get a new one. Whatever, Right, I like that. But when they would get a house, let me finish, Let me finish the point here. Let me just finish the long winded point. If you don't mind, then I'll shut up and let you and be Pete run with this. But the long winded point is this, they would have a brand new, you know, extremely expensive.

I'm not talking about a couple of hundred dollars worth of stuff that you set up in your living room, but I mean, like, you know, five grand worth of equipment that they would want to set up in their media room. First time I ever heard that expression in their media room, so that they had a home theater experience okay, which meant that they wanted the THHX theaters, the round sound to be set up. And this is

something we used to be able to do. Set it up so that if you were in a scene in a movie, you practically felt like when somebody put a cup down on a table, it was literally being put down on that table in front of you, and you could see things as clear as the technology allowed for at that time, I mean as crystal clear as possible, better than what you could see in any given movie theater that the rest of us schmucks would have to go to to go see this thing projected on a

giant screen, and these guys would have a screen that was you know, let's go with the eighty inch kind of measurement, okay, So imagine an eighty inch or a screen that takes up most of a wall in a nice den of a not small house, but a larger house, and this screen takes up significant amount of the wall so that a crowd of people could easily view every single part of that screen. Right, and the sound quality, you're not asking what the guy just said, because everything

is crystal clear. If you set these things up properly, right, these guys didn't know how to plug anything in. They didn't even understand how some things might require batteries and other things might require electrical outlets in order to what run. They would bring a guy like me in and say, can you sort this pile of stuff out? So a guy who's you know, on his best day. Back then in the nineteen eighties, if I found a job for five dollars, I thought I was rich, you know, five

dollars an hour. So a five dollar hour in nineteen eighty seven, eighty six five bucks an hour wasn't bad, right, Hell, you know what when I got when I went and did my stack as a mall Santa Claus, okay, and I was I was one of those guys that you know, you go and you get your pictures taken with with the kids. Do they do that anymore? Be beating the malls with the with the Santa Claus and take your picture with a kid? Do you know about that?

make a polaroid. And even though a polaroid at retail level costs a dollar a picture to make, they charge you ten bucks and they put it in a cardboard frame and here you go, Merry Christmas. Right, memories last forever. Well, I was one of those Santas in let's see now it would be and let's see go back nineteen nineteen eighty nine, in Night Christmas of eighty nine, I was a mall Santa and they paid me, ready for this,

seven dollars and fifty cents an hour. And tell you the truth, that was like a damn fortune in nineteen eighty nine to get paid that. You know. The only trouble was actually good, Yeah, the only trouble was I actually had to sit there for nine hours be in

Santa Claus. But I had to put on you know, the pillowed you know, almost like a fat suit, but like a cheap fat suit, and you know, velvet, velvet type of cloth, red Santa outfit right, the big hat great, you know, white beard hanging all the way down, but it's strapped behind your head. And there was like a skull cap to keep my hair back because my hair was long, longer than than it is now, and stuff like that. And they put rouge on your face and white.

They also took this white stuff and put in my eyebrows, and you know, it take days to get it off my face and all out of my hair and everything. But seven fifteen hour for a seventeen year old kid in a late eighties, you know, New Jersey pretty damn good. As a matter of fact, if I could have maintained that job, I could have gotten my own place in a matter of a couple of weeks. So anyway, but I didn't, not right away, not then. I got it shortly after that, when I got a more steady job.

Because here's the problem. New Year's comes, they don't need Santa no more. But anyway, even back when I was doing mal Sanna and stuff like that. These people were more than happy to hand me one hundred dollars bill if I could show up, and even if it took me twenty minutes to set up their stuff, okay, and another twenty minutes to test their stuff, one hundred dollars bill they were happy to give me. Plus you know,

take a six pack or whatever. There is the drink in the fridge, and you know, do you want lunch. These guys were happy because they had no clue, not even clue number one, about how to handle one of their little toys. And inevitably, while I was there, then the wife or the housekeeper would come by and guess what they would be asking me, and the housekeeper might have a shot at it, but the wife never did. They'd be asking me if I knew how to set

up the electronic parts of their kitchen stuff. We got a stove, you can program it, but you got to set it up. We don't know how to set it up. We got a microwave oven, We don't know how to hell it works. They had microwave ovens that you could make all your presets for and then you could choose to create a button on the front for like, okay,

here's an instant thing. Popcorn generally had a timer on it, and if you bought the same kind of popcorn all the time, you know, the microwave popcorn in a bag. At one point it was sort of like, this takes two minutes or this takes you know, two and a quarter minutes or whatever, and it should pop the entire bag. Now, there were other methods described on the boxes. But the thing is some people had microwaves that already had a

button on it that said popcorn. Well, some of these rich ones, you could actually make a digital message come up on the little screen that if you touched the button, it would say popcorn, and then you could choose to press the button, which would make it cook popcorn by the ascribe time. And supposedly it changed the settings in the microwave too. That was the other thing. You know.

You could use a microwave to thaw things out, or you could use a microwave to cook things, or you could use and some of them were actually combo ovens where you had a confect or oven combined with the microwave oven. So these guys who had the money would buy the top of the line thing, have no idea how to set it up, and then whether it was them or their wives or whoever was going to operate it,

had no idea how to operate it. So I could literally go from room to room in a doctor's house or a dentist's house, or a lawyer's house a lot of times, and I didn't own any of these things. I just had a general idea about the logic on that, or a VCR or that was the other thing, taking some of the older things that they had that they still wanted to keep even though they had a top of the line. Let's just say they bought a VCR

in the mid eighties. That wasn't the two hundred dollars or three hundred dollars VCR that you or I would have bought. They got the ones that you know, have no English on them whatsoever, but are absolutely top of the line, beautiful. You could make broadcast quality images appear on a screen. But they were made in other countries. They weren't made in America. They didn't even have American names on them, or even recognizable brand names on them. To me, so you can't read the language and figure

it out. You sort of had to know the logic of the of the appliance. So I would go and set up their VCR to work, along with their laser disc player to work, along with the choice that they had to project. Instead of using a standard TV screen, they could project onto a standard screen which was a slab or a cloth kind of thing that was, you know,

specially designed to be an in home movie screen. And the movie screen wasn't something where you know, it was like barely you know, it's like, oh, this is kind of crappy, like looking at the home movies from the sixties or seventies or fifties. No, this was like projecting on a smaller scale, exactly the same kind of thing you would see in a good movie theater somewhere. But they would have this stuff, and then they would have

some of the older versions. They would have brand new things, and they had no idea how to make any of them work. So anytime they moved or required new stuff, they had to go get somebody like me who would never own any of these things, but would somehow know how to make them work, to set it up for them, and thusly they would pay. Like I said, if you think about it, they're paying me, and I'm looking for

a five dollar an hour job. You know, in a dream, I'll probably get four dollars, but I'm looking for a

five dollar an hour job. So even on a good day for me getting work somewhere, it would take me twenty hours to get to that one hundred dollars before the taxman sees it, right, and then the taxman will see it, and it won't be one hundred dollars, but twenty hours of my life could be the thing I would have to sell to get that, and I would get, you know, one hundred and twenty five dollar dollars worth, because between the drinks and the you know, and and

and the lunch and you know, and the cash, it maybe comes up to about one hundred and twenty five dollars altogether. Really, I would get about one hundred and twenty five dollars worth of value and do forty five minutes worth of work if I knew what I was doing, and if I didn't, it still didn't take that much longer. So because I could just figure it out, these guys couldn't figure stuff like that out. So later on I discovered that, you know, when I had no money at all.

And I wasn't around anybody who had any money, but I heard stories of the same kind of thing going on with these guys who were rich, guys who were you know, had you know, the great elevated jobs that are you know, way way high paid, and all that they would have computer systems in their house, they needed somebody to come in and make it so that they could just hand it to them in full working order to begin with. So they would have to have somebody come And how do you show me how to get

the computer on the internet? How do you show me how to make it so that I don't want the crap screen that came with it. I bought a whole another brand new screen. How do we make this work? How do you make my plasma TV work? I have a plasma TV. Anybody remember plasma TV's. They were like the rage item per a minute, right, Plasma TV, plasma TV? How do I put the plasma TV with my computer? Now? How do I make it so that everything comes together

on the one screen. Today you have smart TV's, But for a while there that required a bunch of different appliances, didn't it anyway? How did they learn how to How did they learn how to operate them, How did they learn how to set them up? How did they know what the hell even they had bought? They never did. They had to have some porschmuck come in who could function on that level and figure those things out. And

that's my point about this. When you know, when you say, oh, Oliver Stone's a brilliant guy, listen, he might know everything there is to know about film. He might know I'm not going to say history, but let's choose something else. He might know everything there is to know about art. Maybe he's got a degree in art. Matter of fact, I think he does have some sort of degree in art. Okay, he's got honorary degrees, he's got degrees coming out as wazoo.

But what does he actually know about certain things? He has zero idea about some of the less than academic issues. He might know everything there is to know about art, but could he even remotely come close to telling you, even explaining to you verbally, how to paint a picture? I mean seriously, like literally, what kind of paint do you use? Where would you acquire it? How would you apply it is? Do you use a brush? Do you

use a sponge? Do you use your fingers, Oliver Stone, I'm almost promising you knows about as much about that as a kid who can fix his bicycle knows about how to fix your prius, okay, or your What are those toaster cars called again? Uh? The toaster box like you have a BP. Oh, the Kia Kea, the Kia Soul. That's the I always think of that I called the toaster box or the or the hamster car.

through a tin horn or whatever they used to say. Right, doesn't mean I know anything about the Kia Soul, and

vice versa. Even if I knew everything about how to make a Kia soul per baby per and last, you know, an extra two hundred thousand miles above what everybody else gets out of their kisol, And I knew everything about the maintenance, every little in out, positive, negative, etc. And you hand me a bicycle, You may not be handing the bicycle to the right guy, because I might know nothing about how to make that bicycle run, except it'll make sense to me to put the chain on thisprocket.

What I'm saying to you is that Oliver Stone has some knowledge. Not an idiot, but he pretty much gets handed that mongoose when he knows how to run a kisol and he knows how to maintain it knows everything about that. You hand the mongoose and he goes, duh, put chain on sprucket. Looks like it works in the same place. These parts seem to fit into these parts, and he'll go no further. I mean, on the most

friendly level. I'll tell you this, Professor Joan Mellen. I've had some interesting ins and outs of her, and I haven't talked about them all together publicly, but it's been really weird on occasion, and I have an affection for her. I used to live near her. I used to check on her after natural disasters would tear through our common area where we lived, not near each other exactly, but not very far from one another either, and I used to call her up, how did you get through the storm?

Are you okay? Anyway? Joan Mellen, I would consider to be one of the most intelligent authors to ever write on the jfk assassination. I would consider to be an excellent writer in general. She taught at Temple University. She was a professor teaching you how to write. Okay, at Temple. This was her profession. She was good at it, she did it well. Okay, However, you asked this woman. You know, I invited her onto my show in twenty fourteen only because I couldn't get her on in twenty thirteen when

I started. But I had a way to figure it out in twenty fourteen and I was going to go live. I chose her to be the first guest I ever had on a live Internet broadcast. And you know what, even though Joan Mellon had a Skype account, she had no idea how to get into her Skype account, how to use the Skype, how to utilize the mic. Now, this is something so commonplace. I've seen, you know, four year olds deal with Skype and set up Zoom and

other things. Because in our current digital world, in our current existence, during the you know, COVID exercise, all of that, guess what was going on? Then everybody and their mother picked up how do you run these things so that we can have meetings, so we can have a face to face, so I can snapchat you, so I can stipe you, so I can have a zoom meeting with you and the family and or business or what. It didn't matter. Everybody and their mother learned how to do this.

I'm telling you this right now as brilliant as Joan ever was, as brilliant as she is or is not now is irrelevant. She as smart as she was in the areas that I knew she was brilliant in. Plus, let's not forget as a biographer. That's a skill set as well. She's an excellent biographer. And I don't just say this because of JFK. She wrote a biography on

Bobby Knight, the basketball coach. She wrote other biographies. Hell, if I could afford the commission any biographer at a certain point, and I wanted to write my own life story, or I had the ins and outs of somebody else's in my hands, and I wanted to choose somebody who

would properly immortalize another person via a biography. I would ask Joan Mellon, Maybe not today because she's grown tired and things like that, and after her catfishing book and experience, I don't know where her mind would be at today.

But if you would have asked me that question ten, twelve, fifteen, twenty years ago, let me think harder twenty five years ago now, actually, if I want to think hard about it, because I was talking to her when she was writing a Farewell to Justice that's when I first started talking to Joan Mellon. I would tell you, hands down, that's the writer to go to. Doesn't matter. She's a woman, she's this, she's that, she's what. Nope, that's the writer

to go to. If you care about generating a biography that matters, that will be done properly, and that will not shy away from significant facts. This is the woman to go to. And not just again, not just because she's a woman. This is the writer to go to. Period. That's coming from a world where you know, quite honestly, female authors in the JFK case have always been almost automatically partially marginalized. That's the true thing. I'm not mister

social justice warrior on this, it's just the reality. You have to know that without some sort of assistance and support from others, I've never seen a female author actually, and I mean like strikeout on her own and on her own merits even create a fairly decent amount of success in the JFK literature in general.

then accessories after the fact. But she's the only female author to come in and absolutely stand on her work at all and become you know, recognized as one of the responsible, as one of the good ones, as a great contributor to the literature, et cetera, all that stuff on her own. Sylvia Marr is the only one. Sometimes people mispronounce it the way they read it and they

call her meager, but no, it's Sylvia Marr. Uh, you know, so much so that even Mark Lane would have to, even with his you know, interesting ego trap he had going, would have to acknowledge that she was absolutely responsible as a forerunner as a you know, as an establisher of the modern you know, of the postmodern uh historical literary area, that is the JFK assassination literature in general, and even her contribution in a wider regard concerning just simply post

modern historical literature, which in essence I believe was begun with the Rise of the Fall of the Third Reich. Where again Professor Rodger Remington used to make this point to me that you know that effectively, that was the only time in which uh and that was one of the first times in which there was the acceptance of a piece of literature regarding significant historical events that had occurred less than seventy five years prior. And that was so that.

of the National Archives. Yeah.

don't know. I am now going to do what I would normally do, which is double check everybody's facts and see what the publishing world and the copyright office has to say, etc. Okay, and hey, BPTE.

the director's commentary on that scene. Okay, I remember this vividly from the DVD that I got, because I just was dumbfounded and had to rewind it to make sure I heard what I thought I heard entirely, okay, Because I'm looking at a lot of stuff in the JFK movie, and I know some of it is crap, all right. Some of it is just nonsense. It's a fiction. It was, you know, urban legend, whatever you want to call it.

And given the time period in which the film was made, you got to be forgiving of a lot of it because a lot of knowledge was being kept from people. A lot of things were still as yet classified. Certain other individuals had not come forwards, certain records had not emerged, even those that were not being held in classified hands. Right, So there were a great many things that I could forgive, especially reading the annotated screenplay. Okay, but this was unforgivable

in my mind. Is he he's sitting there in the Beverly Oliver composite character, as you said, Jimmy, it's a combination on there. But the woman that he clearly means to represent Beverly Oliver in the movie, and I is named Beverly, but I don't remember if it's Beverly Oliverer. It might be Beverly's something else. But either way, you know, just like that old Kevin Bacon character in that movie is a composite. It leans on Perry Russo extremely but

it's not entirely Perry Russo. There's a couple other people, so't of mixed in there the Perry Russo discussion and exposition. But anyway, back to the Beverly Oliver thing. He literally says during the commentary, he goes, you know a lot of people this is the Beverly Oliver section, and there are a lot of people who say that she's full of shit and they just don't buy it. But they're wrong. She was there. I believe her. So he's saying this blanket number one.

carrying a film camera. And not a single one of them, in my estimation, bears a resemblance to guess who Beverly Oliver not even close now in the grainy early days where she was an ancillary character, and even when they printed in Life magazine, and there she is as this blurry thing sort of with an obstruction around her face and all that you could make a claim I was holding a camera. She could have been holding a baby

elephant in a box for all we know. You know, and somebody could say, look, because of the distortion of the film, you just can't tell. But you know, a couple of things have happened. And before AI filled it in, which, by the way AI fills it in, you ought to see what what that looks like. I have not been permitted to take a copy of these, but there are some people that are doing the debunking myths things right

now that are working on something I don't know. I didn't get a clear explanation, but maybe it'll be on a TV channel sometime soon. Anyway, one of the things they're doing is letting AI fill in some of the blurs and streaks and gaps and stuff like that based on a whole bunch of you know, probabilities and likelihoods that should be sort of you know, used to clarify photographs. Now, is that a reliable, absolutely reliable piece of evidence. No, but it will clear up a lot of the garbage

that we see when people have you know, for decades. Now, you know, looking at you, mister Blevins held up a blurry ass picture and said, look, there's eight things in here, and I don't see one of them, you know, much like the good.

look heavier than I was, because she wasn't heavier. If you look at a picture of nineteen sixty three, Uh, to be honest with you, he was.

is Dick or Richard Sprague. And if you remember, Richard or Dick Sprague was at the beginning of the HSCA, was supposed to be the guy who was the head of it, right, He was supposed to be running the HSCA investigation, Richard Sprague.

that was hard to get for a long time. I'm thinking his first name was Robert P. Pete. You got any idea what I'm talking about here?

was supposed to be in charge. He was temporarily in charge during the transition between Sprague and Blakey for the HSCA, but not much got done because they hardly got funded. They even cut off their phone lines. I think at a certain point they were like a phone company. This office no longer needs a phone and cut off their phones even while this guy was supposed to be, you know, running the investigation. Right, Yes, let me see what conference

two thousand and three. Let's see presenters. Maybe that would be a good way to go, right, everything's an issue with me trying to enter this. But you don't know what I'm talking about, b Pete. I know you've seen the guy on TV. We've talked about stuff regarding this guy before, and I just can't think of his It might have been Robert, but it wasn't Robert, not like g Robert Blake either. I'm telling you, if I was able to actually see and type, it would be a

whole lot better. But because I got such terrible lighting in this room, and uh, well terrible eyesight. Let's be frank. Uh you know, it's hard to it's hard to get at it. Let's see lectures waxed JFK documents and videos Ducaine somewhere on here would be and this is for the fortieth anniversary. So see baumb Tannon bomb. There was tann and bomb. Robert Tannenbaum. That's it. That guy took

over in the interim and everything else. But he took over and then remained on as some sort of like junior council or you know, deputy to whatever, because gee, Robert Blakey took it the rest of the way through. And strangely, at the end of the investigation, he had been allotted more money than he used. He actually returned money back to the Congress that was unused for the investigation. I know that sounds like I'm talking crazy, but I'm

telling you it's true. They did not utilize all of the funding that was allotted to them under g Robert Blakey. Because you know, if you.

at it. I mean, we had the civil settlement that occurred that some people know about which you know, had no teeth, did nothing, but it is on record anyway, to conclude on all this, and I'll tell you about Badgeman real fast is I'll tell you what if you can look at the original polaroid and you can and you can honestly say that you still believe, or you can look at even a a first or second generation copy of the polaroid and you can tell me that

you still believe there's a Badgeman there. Do me a favor and tell me what he's standing on, because it doesn't make sense to put him on a car or in the bed of a pickup truck, maybe the pickup bed of a pickup truck. But if you did that then he's.

and mc again. In so I'll make a trip to Delley Plaza, okay, Jimmy, just for you, and I will try to see if we can figure out a way to put somebody in the badgeman position from behind that fence where he should have been, and see what we come up with, okay, because it's real tough considering where she was standing from utilizing an instant camera, okay, which creates a lot of this problem with this silver nitrate crap or whatever they call it that ends up throughout

the paragraph, throughout the photograph, which makes a whole lot of little sloppy smears and anomalies and everything. I don't know if you've ever really taken a good look at polaroid photographs, but if you take a look at the surrounding stuff and the way light gets bent and all kinds of weird things, it's very interesting. It's a very sloppy sort of photographic process.

of the ones after that. That was one of those questions that I tried to ask Mary Mormon regarding her camera, and frankly, you know, here we go. I mean, she was just what she was, like a seventeen year old housewife or something there on the Noll, right, So seventeen eighteen, nineteen somewhere, and there she was in that group of very young people, and she had already become a housewife Mary Mormon. Okay, I don't think she had a lot

of knowledge about the way her camera worked. And she didn't even seem to be able to remember to me whether it was the kind that you actually have to do something else with the picture afterwards or not. Now I did, in all fairness, I asked that question to her in twenty seventeen to her face. But you know, what can I do? Look, maybe I could possibly get old of her phone number, and maybe we could have

her come on on for one last interview. I mean I had her on the show once or twice after that, to you know, talk about the circumstances and how she took the picture. I don't know if you ever heard those shows, be Pete, Yeah, okay, I didn't know if you had. But I was at the conference with her in twenty seventeen. Matter of fact, I think we did a show before the conference and then after the conference.

And as a matter of fact, her granddaughter wanted to make sure that I came over and gave her a hug in twenty seventeen, because I was so nice and kind and helpful to her in the interview, like I was especially nice to Mary Ann Mormon Kramer. Anyway, So Jimmy, yeah, here we go, right, Badgeman, I'm sorry, I can't put him in that position. I mean, Gordon Arnold though, comes up. And that's another thing where people think that military guy.

Allegedly there's a military guy next to Badgman, right, yeah, and then some people even talk about the possibility of ready a hard hat guy, a construction guy wearing what looks like a hard hat.

yeah he went and did that. But this I'm talking about the incident where Badgeman would be just having fired, right, And then he says that Badgeman jumps over the fence pretty much right, and you know, kicks him while he's on the ground and everything else and takes his film, remember, takes the film out of his.

After the men who killed Kennedy and all that stuff. Now, remember there's no six to four museum yet in nineteen eighty eight, so people just went to Daily Plaza and just you know, wandered around Dally Plaza to check out the historical site, right, and there were these again the homeless guys were there, you know, and they somehow somebody organized and created the thing where they would hand out the newspapers and they would come up to you and

bug you, Ppete. You know what I'm talking about with the homeless guys in the newspapers. See now today they're not all homeless, but they come and they hustle you. Right, They're like, hey, you know anything about the spot you're standing on, right, pp.

special you know souvenir. You almost felt like you were getting some secret souvenir because nobody was advertising for it or anything, right, and it had a special you know, bulletin newspaper all about Dealey Plaza and the conspiracy and

all these things. Anyway, the funny thing is during that time period when I did indeed go to Dallas as well, but had not been there to go to Dealey Plaza, and I was there to talk to people and interview people at their houses, which were not right there in that part of Dallas, so I never made it to the plaza. But the thing is, I'm doing these interviews and you know, making tapes and stuff. But here's the thing that was happening in Dealey Plaza at the time.

Gordon Arnold was walking around with a T shirt that literally just had like it looked like one of those things you used to be able to get in the mall, like tell me what what words you want to put on your T shirt? And a lot of people would go and get you know, World's Greatest Dad and a picture of them and their kid. You know, a hot

iron onto a white T shirt, right, well, Gordon Arnold. Yeah, so Gordon Arnold had one of those kind of T shirts made that said, Hi, I'm Gordon Arnold, jfk Assassination witness. That was literally inconvenient, literally that was his T shirt that he was walking around with in nineteen eighty eight, twenty five or nineteen eighty nine. Wait a minute, Wait a minute, I can confirm it in ninety two. Sorry,

I can confirm it in ninety two. But I heard that he started doing that just after The Men Who Killed Kennedy was first broadcast, which I believe is nineteen eighty eight, on the twenty fifth anniversary when they put out the first part Nigel Turner did. But either way is that.

you know, the Johnson did It segment? Right, So that was like part nine of the Men Who Killed Kennedy? I think, right?

way or another. But back that time period there, Yeah, they went to Walt Brown's house and Nigel Turner was there in Jersey, so I know that when they were filming the last part of it, he was still alive. But I think they had to change narrators because during the post production, I think he died or something like that. So I'm guessing that that was actually around the fortieth anniversary when they were finishing up, you know, the actual editing process for all that. But I don't know. I'd

have to double check. Like when The Men Who Killed Kennedy, when was the last one of it actually put out? Maybe I should check that.

That was the last release. And oh, by the way, when you if you were to buy it on the History Channel store not too long ago, they eliminated the last three episodes, which was kind of good because guess what, you know, the last three episodes contained not only Johnson did It, but Judy Baker in the love story for a whole damn episode of the Men Who Killed Kennedy.

assumption here that you really shouldn't be making. I mean, Vince has done some great work and at a lot of great parts of it. But again, these guys, they get into these blind spots and they start to believe their own hype. He had the wrong Secret Service agent identified in a pretty clear damn piece of film. You know, it's not like you and me mixing up which one of them with the bowl cuts, you know, those perfect not bow cut buzz cuts. You know which buzz cut

guy in a suit looks like which one? They're almost I mean they were all white. So a bunch of white guys on black and white film, buzz cuts, dark hair and suits on. Yeah, you might mix them up. But Vince should not have been doing that, you know. So he he made a well ripka, he kept saying.

have taken home most of his records. That's why, Okay, that's why he got to write that book. Sorry, no, I'll screen.

stretcher or whatever? This guy was a driver, right, Paul whatever. Yeah, But you know, I thought I answered the question pretty well when the guy was, you know, asking me, well, why is it nobody is bringing that up. I said, well, maybe because credibility fell away from that story completely. So there's no point in talking about something that is not credible. You know. Uh, maybe he's just.

a seed from him. He just does his thing, and somebody else goes out there and acts like they wrote it, or they make up a name, and it's a pictationous author doesn't matter. A ghostwriter is somebody you don't hear a seed from. And and it's very likely that the eighty something year old guy who's you know, at the end of his life and all those points that this guy was trying to make me in Dallas had decided, well, I don't have the energy to write a book, and

they said, don't worry about it. We got a guy. I'll do it for you. You know, sit down, have a couple of dinners with him. We'll buy you guys dinner, and you can talk and you know, a couple of conversations. There's a little bit of research, have a future, you know, give him a couple of give him a couple of right, Yeah, give him a couple of good stories, and we'll wrap it up into a book. And you know what, you're

gonna get paid. So there you go. There's your But you couldn't get good retirement benefits from the Secret Service. We got a retirement benefit.

advantage of a situation that you were somewhere near. I'm not saying it's right, but I am saying it makes sense that somebody would just go, yeah, you know what, screw it. I put up with for years people questioning me, acting like I'm this and that and whatever and asking me about you stuff bunch of stuff. And all I was was the driver, will screw you. You know what, I'll cash in on this now. Thanks. Because he went around on that book tour with plane and you know

he didn't get paid a lot. You know what I'm saying. Him, and I'm sure that you know him, and what's his name there, you know, had to go around. I mean he was spent a lot of years as an alcoholic. The guy who was Jackie's agent, you know what I'm saying. The guy who actually did his job, Clint Hill. You know, Clint Hill spent a lot of years drinking himself to death. He probably needed the money, and Landis went around because he needed the money. He looked at Gerald Blaine getting

paid and said, this guy was a paper pusher. I at least drove a car. You know, hey, how about this?

I know I got another caller here. Bet Pete. Anything you want to add throw in or you want to just wake up him in what's up?

for people self published, et cetera, et cetera. I know, there's not a huge chunk of change really in publishing anymore. Unless you have, you know, a book that's on fire and millions and millions of copies or sold. It's not a great business either. So what I'm saying is is how does he end up with the money though to make these trips hips and journeys to places without you know, sinking a lot of money into travel and the expenses

of doing an investigation, uh, you know everything. I mean, there's a lot of money that went into this stuff where he's running around. We're going to go to Connecticut, We're going to go to this place. We're going to go and bother this person who moved away, you know. And I've always wondered where the money came from, or even the money to go to conferences and things where he's not running them. He's not being paid to show up, but he has the money to show up and cause

a disturbance. That happened a bunch of times, not only with the nine eleven good.

the drop of a dime. And you definitely couldn't fund us.

This was like a special set that you know, had all these films in it and had all these resources on it, and it had a dog.

didn't unless he was paid David Lifton. David Lifton got paid to go to the University of Minnesota and have this thing filmed to have it distributed later. And it was pretty extensive. And why is it that David Lifton is not one of the people that you see a lot of regarding the Zapruder film being faked and all that. Guess why? Because nobody bought it from David Lifton. It wasn't as credible as he tried to make it look

and sound. It didn't work out. Let's go over to our next caller, though, because they might not want to talk JFK. They might have something completely different on their mind, unless you want to tack something else on Bpete. Sure, all right, and I'll try and shut up and sit back, because I think is this Danny.

that far yeah, tomorrow or something. Okay, So anyway, anything else on your mind, man, Well.

So I'm not getting any word from my co host, and I'm not I'm not getting any word from anybody. All right, let's try and redo this here right live on the air, I guess, and try and reconnect because I somehow lost Harlan, I've lost Bpete. And let's see what we can do here Friday Night Live calling show. I guess things happen. I'm trying to reconnect here on the Skype to get back into it, and I don't know what's going on, guys, not at all. I'm not

sure if I've lost internet here. If I have, then this is being recorded and you guys are not hearing it. Let's see. But yeah, so I'm being recorded and trying to dial back into my own phones, and I guess I'm just being recorded in my internet's down. Yeah, Well, with that, perhaps I have lost the recording entirely. No idea what's happening here? Guys? So I appear not to have a stream. I have a now a non answering skype and that's that. So I don't know what to

tell you. If youse expressed my caller schools there anyone else who happens to get on the air to Kelly dot com. You not necessarily reflect the US little Kelly dot com or chum. And we are not responsible for any stupidity which might new student bevlation through conversation.

Judith Very Baker in her own words, thank.