Get ready, eighth day of October twenty twenty four, allegedly according to that thing we call a calendar, this the O'Kelly effect, and you hearing it because you decided to find it.
So appreciate you for tuning in at o'celly dot com on the radio stream live all that good stuff. We are an online radio stream where you might be hearing this twenty four hours a day on replay and all that good stuff. But as I speak to you live, it's about ten minutes after eight pm Eastern in what we used to call America on that eighth day that tearsday Tuesday of the week. So there it is. There it was, and that's what it is. Who do I have with me tonight? Well, a guy that has earned
himself a nickname from last year's conference. Some people call him a scooter Joe, and gee, I wonder why they do that. Maybe I'll get into that in a minute. But he's going to be part of the Lancer Conference. Joe Borelli, of course connected to the Lone Gunman, not so loan Gunman. Considering now there's two guys on there, well, maybe is that the loan is the lone Gunman the podcast or is it about the reference to Oswald or is it all the above? I don't know. I gotta ask.
I got to ask our longtime friend over there what this means. Now there's two guys. You can't be a lone gunman. If there's two guys, maybe it's just me. But anyway, Rob Clark, of course, who is for you?
Sir?
Excellent? We're gonna get there. Rob Clark, of course is who I'm talking about. Who's been on many of the Myths shows, been a guest on The Ocelli Effect before, but today no Rob Clark, no Doug Campbell, no quick Hits, no just Scooter Joe, Joe Borelli And again, as I said, he presented at the sixtieth anniversary, the twenty seventh Lancer Conference November in Dallas and all that, and he'll be there this year at the twenty eighth, So he's going to have to put up with me being the live MC.
And there you go. Although I'm not on the presenter list, I'm just the MC. And when you look at the schedule you don't see my name, but that's okay. Anyway, Joe, how you doing tonight? Before I get into what I want to talk to you about. Jfkland, what is new, what is hot and happening? And maybe what's not happening so hot, But we'll see anyway, Joe, how are you doing.
I am doing well, sir, and it is great to be back on the Achelli effect. We did have a great time at Lancer twenty twenty three last November, which is where I met you, and you were MCing then as well, right, sir.
Yeah, I was and doing like ten other things at the same time, because every time I turned around something needed to be done. At one point I was even grabbing a table and hauling it over everybody's head and running it to the stage for those other podcaster guys from YouTube. But I don't think they're going to be there this year. But I don't know if you'll.
Remember that, but I was ben getting to it later.
Yeah, I was all over the place.
But well, you know what, I'm gonna push back on something you said when you said I'm gonna have to put up you with you this year, because I have a completely different take. And you might be surprised by this. You are kind of a guardian angel in a sense because and I guess we can get into the scooter story. I crashed a scooter on my way to get tobacco as I was nervous before my Atlancer presentation, and Chuck was the first person to put it together. He's like, wait,
Joe left on a scooter. He came back, he was like rushed in the building. He didn't say hi to anyone. And then you saw the scooter not even parked on the side street, just like pushed over. And then later in the Lancer, so like I was rushing back, I danced the front desk to give me bandages, bandaged it up, I changed it to my shirt, I did my Q and A, and you were like, Joe, you're bleeding through
your shirt. And I didn't even notice that. And if you noticed that, Chuck, it was probably pretty bad.
Well here's the thing, right, he's getting ready to go on and I'm getting ready to introduce him. So I take a look and I realized he's bleeding, and I'm like, yeah, okay, I know why, but dude, you might want to get a control of that before you go on stage.
It wasn't like bleeding profusely. It was like a couple of red dots on like a button down shirt, so it was like folded up, so it was like leaking a little through it. So we just want to make the audience give them all the facts that I wasn't like bleeding out or anything, but I was definitely leaking a little bit for sure.
But yeah, but it was what I was concerned about.
Yeah, my adrenaline was going. My first time presenting Rob and I actually did a virtual presentation because he was not there last year. I then did a Q and A, and like my adrenaline was going, I was handing out documents of the relevant ones from last year's presentation and I had not even noticed, and you pointed it out to me, so thank you, sir.
Yeah, I mean, and that's what I was actually worried about, is like, look, he's running around trying to hand out, you know, these things so people could follow along and ask their questions and go through this whole thing because they did, you know, meet the Martins and this whole thing about all these guys named Martin in the case. It was really cool, But I was worried that you were adrenaline was going to get up, your heart was going to start pumping and you were going to really
start to bleed a lot on stage. Not that you were bleeding a lot beforehand, but if you got moving around and you know, worked up, you might bleed a lot. So you got to get a hold of that before you go up there. That was my whole thing, And I mean, you know, I wasn't going to make a big deal out of it, but I didn't want you to have that.
You know, I had gotten control of it before, but it had like seeped through bandages a little bit. Well that My other nickname is Joey Scars. Joey, I know you like Joey Scooter. Joey Scars was my official The Longe Coming podcast name. Nice and we even have some silly merch on it, so it's funny.
Oh cood. It's actually more of a street level sounding thing actually, but either way, actually Scooter joe would be a thing that was.
That was the goal. Yeah, Amafio's type of name, right.
True enough, true enough. And I did know a guy that was named something Scars. I'm not going to mention his name because he didn't like the nickname, but people knew him.
You know.
It was one of those deals, like people never called al Capone's scarface to his face, that kind of thing. So I did know a Jersey mob guy who was a part of the Dicabo camp Conti family that was known for scars, and he never liked it if people mentioned it. So, you know, just a thing.
I don't mind. I mean, I don't know where his cars were, minor like kind of on my arm, and I've had a few before then, So yeah, that it just lends credence to the nickname. But I think it's hilarious. I love it, and like I told you, I think I was on here in February last I will be going back on the scooter this year now. My presentation partner Doug Campbell said that's fine, but you can't do it before our presentation.
Ah okay, you scared up and hurt myself again.
So not sure when the scooter ride will happen, but it will be documented, videoed and put up I'm sure on the long gumb and feed at other places.
Excellent. So we will see a scooter Joe on a scooter on YouTube sometime after November. Excellent. Perfect.
So anyway, get the best, I mean, you can't love it.
Right, So let's let's get into the topic that that that people do want to hear about. And I want to first start with you know, last night, right, I get a little notice that, hey, you know, did you hear that there's going to be this thing with you know, a prominent researcher, right, Jefferson Morley is holding a press conference. He's gonna make some big announcement regarding the case. And I said, oh, great, you know, and look, I've been
invited to a lot of press conferences. People don't know it because I don't always stand up and ask a question, but other people have noted that I've been invited to press conferences, and they wonder why because they think I'm not part of the press. But I've gone on you know, like yeah, kind of sort of but virtually now, mostly because they do these things via zoom and everything most of the time. And last time, when the Mary Farrell lawsuit was going on, they certainly invited me, but they
didn't invite me to this one. So I said, Okay, I guess I'll just have to wait for the substack tomorrow. And this morning it came out, right, so, you know, a big announcement here it is. We got a whistle blower all these things, and I said, okay, and I went and I read through an article about it first by somebody else, and then realized I could actually access because I'm not paying Morley to access his substack. I'm sorry, you know, I'm willing to buy his books, but I
don't want to do the substack thing. I can't afford all this stuff. So bottom line is, I'm thinking, let me read the article. I read that, and then I found out I had access to Morley's substack for this particular issue. So I went and read through it and everything. And I know that a lot of people in the community will follow stuff like this, will be on it regardless of whether the press covers it or how they cover it. So I know you had to have taken a look at this stuff without me going in any
more detail. What were your thoughts about Morley and his announcement and you know what was going on there today.
So I follow Jefferson Marley on Twitter. I've actually never personally had any dialogue with him, but you know, I definitely respect him and his work, and I think he's been in the community for over thirty years and he's definitely one of the most I don't want the famous, most, you know, recognizable names when it comes to the JFK assassination, mostly because he was a reporter for the Washington Post, and you know he's written a few books, and you know,
loved all his works. So you know, I've been following these tweets for I think like two or three days now, and you know, it's it's interesting because you know, he has tweets like this is the most significant JFK story. And this is a quote I've ever done. It indicates CIA is hiding records related to a still classified operation
involving Oswald them the photographs. But I you know, to people like you and me, Chuck, that is a particular news that the CIA is hiding records or that they had tried to hinder the HCA or or the Garrison investigation or looking to their jurors. I mean, this is like a pattern here.
In fact, Jefferson Morley is a walking, talking exemple, you know, the exemplar if you will, of the hsca's interference, because he was suing for the documents related to a guy named George Joe and Edes for years. Of course, Brett Kavanaugh finally put his lawsuit to sleep against the CIA. Brett Kavanaugh, Yeah, that's same. Brett Kavanaugh made the final decision to kill Jefferson Morley's lawsuit in case you didn't
know it. And the deal is he was suing for George, Joe and Edes records because the HSCA had been given Joe and Edes as a liaison, okay, regarding the Kennedy assassination in the nineteen seventies. And you know, Joe and Ed's and the CIA both claimed he had no connection to the case previously, and we come to find out that at the very least that is not true. You know, ge Robert Blakey has certainly learned he was lied to
by the CIA regarding that as the head of the HSCA. Okay, and we know this, we know that, and Morley made an example of this and tried to sue to get the records for years and years. I had him on my show first time in twenty fourteen, when I barely knew him, but I knew his work, and obviously I was extremely happy to have him on because here's a guy taken on the CIA, going after records they don't want to give up. This is one of those guys we should always, you know, pay attention to. And I
love Morley's work. I really do, you know, not saying I agree with every single conclusion, etc. But it's great because he's a legitimate reporter from the mainstream media who came kind of, you know, over into our section of town, uh to do the conspiracy thing. People like that, and we need him and he's you know, what is it, the vice president of the Mary Faraoll Foundation or you know, vice chair whatever it is, second highest position of the
Mary Faraoll Foundation. Uh. He's a guy who's actively involved in trying to get things done. So I appreciate the man I do, despite the fact that him and I had a little back and forth a couple of years ago and he was supposed to show up on my show and didn't and all that, I'll forgive it. I love you, Jeff, I really do. And I love the work you do. And I appreciate JFK. Facts and I appreciate your books, all of it. But yeah, I'm looking at this going.
And Jane the Jane Roman lead with I believe he went there with doctor Newman and I was a lady I believe who was working in Angleton's office, who said who confirmed they had the operation interest in Oswald. I mean that's big, that's prob Yeah.
No, exactly, groundbreaking stuff, right, go ahead, good.
No, No, I'm saying it's just great work.
Yeah, yeah, no, great work. And again I appreciate him. But about this particular thing, Yeah, it's not a big shocker to us that, gee, the CIA is holding stuff back. Now, if there was a legitimately existent skiff, okay, that contained a whole bunch of records that they were very concerned
about keeping classified, then that is also revelatory. But what do we have here at the end of the day, right, and there's this thing about a video case of some kind, you know, some sort of video material that's there and
says it's Oswald in Mexico City. Now, we have been given to understand that there are no pictures of Oswald and Mexico City, even though Ed Lopez and Dan Hardaway found out that there really should be, though there wasn't because cameras weren't functioning, et cetera, et cetera, all kinds of bs. Read the Lopez report, I'm not going to recap it. You know, there's a lot of things that
went on here. So is their video exists in you know, existing at some point or did it exist at some point in the recent past with the Cia of Oswald in Mexico City. Wouldn't that be an assassination record? Should it not be part of the releases from the JFK Records Act. All of these are pertinent and important questions. But at the end of the day, right, what does Jeff say he has and what do they say they have altogether? Here? That is this tremendous announcement that needs
to be made. What do you think?
Well, you mentioned skiff earlier, and that is of course a secure compartmentalized info facility for which Jeff alleged that some documents related to the jfksssassination and some not really the assassination, right, that were not filed under that. I believe that's what he said. Had to do. There was a box with Mexico City, either videos or pictures, and chull correct me if I'm wrong, didn't you do? I remember these things? A great episode recently on Mexico City with Larry Hankong.
Yes, I did an extensive episode with Larry on Mexico City. I've done a couple in the past too regarding this, because it's always fascinated me that there's this, you know, handful of pictures and this guy who has been called the mystery Man and all that, and he looks like Alex Carros from Webster, you know, from the nineteen eighties to me, you know, the guy who played Webster's adopted father in the show. That's what he really looks like. And he has been later identified as you know, possibly
a Soviet agent and etc. Et cetera. But this is the weird thing for.
Mac Wallace's football teammate according to America's unsubstantiated stories.
Yeah, well there's always that too, but Mac Wallace poof anyway, all of that, but definitely not Lee Harvey Oswald. And this was submitted as supposedly pictures of Oswald. So yeah, I mean there's a lot there. And you know, do we have absolute proof of Oswald being in Mexico City. I started out not knowing and then feeling like there was no proof of him being there, you know, for several years, and as I've dug deeper and deeper, it seems like he must have been there. But there should
be more material that exists somewhere, and where is it. Well, I can't answer that because we don't know where it could be or would have went, or has it been destroyed, et cetera, et cetera. So this is remarkable if some sort of visual evidence exists right of walled in Mexico City. But then again, is it just you know, like you said,
is it photographs? Is it video? Even the person who is, you know, blowing the whistle here has stated they didn't open the box, they didn't look in the box to see what was in there, So we don't know even from the hearsay now from this person, right, So I'm kind of left, you know, feeling this wasn't such a big announcement, you know what I mean. Maybe it's interesting, but again, you know, we have a million stories in the Naked City, and there's a lot of people who claim,
look I saw this, I saw that. And at the end of the day, if all you have is the testimony of one individual, and you don't have corroboration, you don't have documentation, you don't have something else to go along with that, then honestly, you can only weigh it as hearsay. I mean, that's the way I look at it. Other people take things more seriously and go with it. Well, this person told me this, so it must be true. And you start weighing people's hearsay against other people's hearsay.
What can you do at this point? Is there an interesting passage in this whole discussion with morally regarding you know, here's your non denial denial and how it is the CIA words things. I think that's extremely instructive. You know, where they're explaining, look, we have no knowledge of Now that doesn't mean it doesn't exist, right, because they didn't say explicitly it doesn't exist. They're saying I don't have
knowledge of that. We don't have knowledge of that, so that if later it emerges that they do have that material, well we just said we didn't have knowledge of it. We didn't say it didn't exist, you see, But it's meant to be taken as the denial that it exists. So that's instructive. You got to be careful about how these statements are worded, because I assure you there with precision. You know, this isn't like Donald Trump running the CIA, where the word salad is all over the place, and
you interpret it. Okay, this isn't Kamala Harris's weird vagaries. This is very precise language that CIA people put out when they allow a statement to come out. Okay, and so you do have to recognize that. But at the end of the day, once again, has anything moved forward?
Is there anything actually new in this announcement outside of the naming of this alleged whistleblower who should have had some sort of access here but again didn't open the box, doesn't identify exactly what a lot of things are, et cetera, etc. Just claims that there is a room, so to speak, or a particular area of a facility dedicated to some of these records. I'm not surprised by that either. But that's about all I get out of this. So I
don't know how to feel. You know, I want Jeff to come out with something that is a real bombshell, But to me, it's not so much of a bombshell. I mean, I'm just saying, maybe it's just me, Joe, But look, I don't want to sit here in cast dispersions or judgments on anything in any progress we can make.
It's all welcome at this point, which is why we're going to Lancer and why it is we participate in these things in my estimation anyway, and why it is you're going there is to add to the you know, the the knowledge database, so to speak, the collective knowledge that can be accessed, to share it, to inform people about things that you might have discovered on your own, et cetera, and put it all together so that we can begin again every single year to sort of assess
how far we've gotten, what have we learned that's new, have we examined something that was mis examined or missing before, et cetera, et cetera. So again participating in Lancer, which will be at the Dallas area at Downtown this year November twenty second to the twenty fourth in Dallas, Texas.
And if you go to Assassinationconference dot com, just saying, and you want to sign up either to go to the conference in person or for a virtual ticket, you can get ten percent off with the with the the code o'celly ten, just saying, so that's always nice, ten percent off, and you also have a student discount there there is discount tickets available. There is the information about the hotel, which will be in the show notes with
this podcast as well. So I'll give you the phone number for the hotel, the sign up for the website, and everything you need to know to join us at Lancer this year, either virtually or in person. But I will be there in person, and so will Joe Borelli. Anyway, back to the discussion, what is it that you're going to throw at us this year? I mean, you and Doug working together on it.
Let me let me stop you there, because I want to follow up on something you said about the morally thing in Mexico City, and I think students of the assassination know Mexico City is one of the most complex areas of the assassination that you can kind of study. It's all over the place. Was Oswald? There was? He not there? Obviously the picture was not Oswalt. But we know there were operations photographing the embassies everyone that came
into now, so why why wasn't this picture taken? We know there were recordings wiretaps, but the voices was not Oswalt. So it's something I have not completely made up my mind yet about Chuck. I mean, and your episode gave me a lot of things to think about actually actually with Larry, and.
You know, I.
Have the feeling that there was this operations running within operations, right, an OP hidden within an type of thing. And it's just and I might have heard this on your episode, but I kind of lean towards this now. Is because, of course, the Warrant Commission would have loved to publish a picture of Lee Harvey Oswell leaving the Russian Cuban embassies right, It would have just helped their case so much like there's no reason not to disclose that, of course,
other than to protect operations or protect personnel. And what if Oswalt wasn't alone, Now, then that doesn't go towards the loant narrative. And what if the person he was with was someone Cia or whoever else didn't want to disclose was with Oswalt's That's seems to be like where I'm leaning towards because I am I do think he was probably in Mexico, z And he was probably impersonated, so that that screams to me ops within ops. And you know, we could spend a long time on this.
I mean, your past episode on this went way deeper than I'm going to but it just that's kind of my inkling right now. But back to the Morley thing. Yeah, I mean, when you have anonymous sources, it's never going to sit well with the document researchers, like the serious document researchers, right, if you can't produce a document and it is hearsay, like you said, it's it's hearsay, it's another story. It's very interesting and maybe there's more more
to come. But to your earlier point that there was a press conference that mister Morley did early and it was only for working journalists or media, and but for for JFK researchers it wasn't. It wasn't for them. So that makes me think it might be more of a I don't know how to say this a mainstream topic revelatory thing than a researcher, you know, a big, big revelatory document that's coming out. But that's what he he
he described it as it was going to be. So but if and I know he was on a few shows today and I know some of the authors of Chokeholds are going to be doing some media hits and stuff like that. Anything that raised this is awareness on this topic. And the documents, and the government both democratic and Republican of not you know, doing the adhering to the JFK Act in nineteen ninety two is all good for me. So I'm not sure exactly how this is going to play out. I'm hoping it's all good things.
Maybe there's more to come. Maybe if like a congressman or a senator somewhere else gets involved, and maybe this whistleblower can get protection and he comes out, maybe that opens Pandora's spot and we get documents. As you know, and I'm sure you know Trump and RFK Junior have
been talking about releasing the documents now. For of course, Trump is now saying this for the second time after he did the first time, and I got on Trump for that on the Long Woman Podcas asked, and this is not a pro or anti Trump thing, It's just he said he was going to do it and he didn't. I do. I do think he is very likely to do it with r K on his kind of team, now,
you know, I don't. I think if you were to say what percentage chance Kamali release it or what percent has with Trump and RFK and some capacity to release it, I don't think it's a conversation, right, So, I don't know. I'm the timing is interesting because it's coming up a lot in the in the campaigns, the JFK files, and say anything that that brings awareness to to what we study, I'm all down for. So I just kind of want to like give that contrarian view there.
Right. Look, I'm more than happy if anybody comes out and pushes this forward. If either one of the past two sitting presidents had done the right thing, I would have been pleased and I wouldn't have cared who did it. You know. Of course, Trump could have done nothing instead of bending to the whims of the of the intelligence community, which is what happened in twenty seventeen. Okay, I mean
that's the truth of it. At the last minute, the intelligence community came to him and said, look, we need to hold onto these things for longer, even though we knew there was twenty five years where these things, you know, were sitting waiting to be released. Trump could have done nothing and those things would have had to tumble out, but he decided to do what they asked him to do. Okay, Fine, Then Biden comes in and people go well, maybe Biden coming in. I heard this in real time as it
was happening. Biden comes in, He's going to do it. Now, well what does he do? He kicks the can so far down the road. Now we have no idea when it'll be revisited. So therefore the lawsuit came in. And that's why the Biden administration was the one that got sued. Okay, because both administrations were given a chance to do that. And my wonder is just because RFK Junior is on Trump's team now I think they're dangling it there as
an attractive thing for us. But the truth is, what is going to change with the intelligence community between twenty seventeen and now twenty twenty five, as far as you know, what is really going to change that's relevant between that seven year time period from then to now that's going to allow this to be well, it's okay, now, let
it come out. Or is the intelligence community going to again implore the Trump administration or the Harris administration either one to again look hold off because still and I
don't think it's even about Oswalt. I think it's about something connected to Oswald that might lead to bigger things because The thing is, I don't think Oswald is the key here, but he might have been in proximity to something that they still I do not want to allow outs because it would allow us to know something brand new and the old theories, the old problems with whether
it is or isn't. And they're going to answer Jeff Morley's appearances on these shows with probably the likes of a Gerald Posner, who's gonna come out and guess what make the kind of argument I did. We have hearsay here. We don't have anything outside of hearsay. So what has changed from the time I wrote my book Case Closed, which you know, again I contend I'm not certain that mister Posner wrote that book, But anyway, point is that book came out with his name on it, and he's
later caught as a plagiarist and everything. But you know, Enjoy Posnor appears on the MSM and always counters this stuff, and only because Boogliosi's dead, because otherwise they would haul him back out. I'm sure to say. Look, I solved this case in my book already end a story, and by the way, Oswald did it because he was a Communist sympathizer blah blah blah blah blah blah blah, and crazy kid Oswald wanted to make history because he was
a loser, and the loser wanted to make history. And people don't want to believe a loser killed Kennedy and Da dah da da da, and that's what they're gonna do because that's what they've always done.
So well, that's interesting you say that, Chuck, because I don't know what the reaction is going to be to the story. And this is my conspiratorial mind thinking here, sure, but if there was something to it, they might call up Posner to try to, you know, say exactly what what you just said. And it's interesting. It will be interesting, I think, in the coming days to see how the MSN or deep State or whatever you wanna call it kind of counters it or if they pay no attention
to it. I have no idea, but I just thought of that as you brought that up.
Well, you know, here's the thing. If they bring out pow though, it's an indicator not that there's something to it, but actually that there isn't. And I'll tell you why. Because the last time, when they were hauling Posner out here in uh I think it was. It was it
last year. I think it was last year. They hauled him out because there were some revelations and there were some documents that did come out, and there was some stuff that was released in twenty seventeen that finally people understood, and then there was some stuff released even last year, even last year, right that people understood. And what happened was Posner comes out and says, look, you know, he was countering this whole thing about this document says there
might have been a shot from the front. And the document that says there might have been a shot from the front is from an unnamed source, okay, who makes a claim. If you really dig into it, it's a big old piece of here. Say that was given to a report that the FBI had and they don't follow through on it. The document trails off into nothing and rightly goes out and says, this document doesn't show you anything, but the MSN produced it. As is this real information
that could be proof of a conspiracy? Is it the actual smoking gun? They were out there doing that on the news and then they would bring out Posnor to fill that slot again to make the same argument, So that.
For clicks, is that for clicks?
Yeah, exactly. It was just for that. It was let's take you down the road that goes nowhere, Joe, because that's the best road for you to go down. Let's go down the road that goes nowhere. I like how they always pick apart the most ludicrous of things. They never face down the real information on the MSM. They always go after, well, there are people that say this, there are people that say that the driver shot him. You know, they'll go all the way back to that
and never address some other things. Like I've always said, I'm waiting for Ceeing to have the guts to put somebody on to say, you know this, Lady Sherry Feaster was a blood spatter expert, went and did some work here and nobody's disputed it yet, and it was scientifically analyzed, and she realized that we have proof here in the publicly observable records that there are shots from the front and they will never face that because nobody in her field,
even after her death, has challenged her work. So that should just stick in there and be a problem that you know, explain this to me if you only have a low nut mister Posner. But they don't do that. They face down. Here's this half assed report. Here's this, you know, only a partial thing where somebody has an
account that they think this happened, et cetera. And it turns out that the hearsay is actually from somebody else's here say they were told this when you actually read the document with the MSM said oh, there might be proof of shots from the front, when they know, damn well, just read the rest of the document. It's no good.
So it's literally staged. You know, when when you're gonna throw a fight, if it's going to be a boxing match, you gotta show up and you gotta look like you took some punches, so you know, you got to you gotta land a few so that it looks like you're trying to fight, and then you actually throw it. And that's what they're doing in my estimation, and that's when they and they obviously haul out Posner and make sure he's read in once again, because he never knew anything
about the case. He didn't even know about stuff in his own book when he was doing his book tour, so give me a break. But you know, thirty years later, let's bring him out. Oh yes, of course I know all about this, Yeah, because somebody gave you exactly what it was. It was like when the CIA briefed everybody before the documents came out and got all the newspaper people together and said, listen, there's gonna be a bunch of stuff released, but I'm gonna explain to you what's
in it. Since you guys aren't gonna understand it, it's no big deal. So every newspaper pretty much word for word, went along with what the CIA told them to say, including Tucker Carlson. Thank you very much, But you know what can I say? Look, Tucker Carlson said that blah blah, yeah, yeah, yeah, but he went out and said there was nothing to it with the CIA and everything. And you know why, because the CIA briefed all these people about listen, these documents.
You guys aren't going to understand them. It's difficult to read, so let us explain to you what's in it. We're the CIA, you can trust us. And they briefed them before the documents were released, so you know, here we go again. And I'm sure that there was a pre briefing on any of this too. You know with the agency anything that's about to come out, you know, thirty
days before. They'll tell the reporters for the Washington Post and New York Post, you know, the everything, the Chicago Tribune if it still exists, whatever, the mainstream electronic media. They'll get them all together and say, listen, here's what's actually in these two thousand documents. Don't worry, we're gonna dump them. But it doesn't mean anything. If you want to call attention to something, here's something you can look at.
And they're going to give them a guidebook because these guys who have never gone into study on this stuff and don't know really don't know anything about the case. So what word are they going to take? You know, Well, I got briefed by a CIA officer, Yeah you did, and gee, I wonder if they're trying to protect not only themselves but others. Anyway, back to it, and I want to get to this before we run over an hour talking here, you know, I want to get into
what it is you're going to be talking about. Give us a hint, a preview, a little bit of a teaser, if you will, about what you and Doug are going to cover at the conference.
Please sure. Well, I'll just back up a little bit. Last year, Rob Clark and I, who is my co host, I'm and founder of the Longomer and Pot Cast, did presentation on the coincidence of the name Martin, but specifically Jay Martin coming up in the assassination. We found over thirty instances of that, but it really evolved not into whether it was a coincidence or an anomaly or whatever. It evolved into a detailed study on a couple of Martin's in which we took deeper than anyone had ever
had before. One being John Thomas Martin, the former minuteman who seventeen year old kid at the time who had took the famous film of Walker's House and the Lee Harvey Oswalt friends on the same reel of film. It's
on the six Floor website. It's fascinating. And also James Rover Martin, who Marine and I moved in with six days after the assassination, and Rob and I had found documents that no one else had found before that proved that not only did James River Martin have a direct line in his house which Marina moved into six days after Lee was killed. I'm sorry about the assassination, but also that his wife, Wanda, was under oral contract of the CIA, and that was actually, I believe it was
the April twenty twenty three releases. As we were preparing our Martin thing, I searched the new releases for Martin It's name, and I found this, one of the Martins we were studyings released document that his wife was under oral contract on the CAA. And you know, that's that's that's the bombshell. You know that that's that's very fascinating.
And you know, a weird thing came up after you did your presentation too, And I don't know what you ever did with this, I forget, but I sent you a scan of a press photo I have, and I have a little collection of stuff from different media outlets over time, and I'm gonna bring it with me to the conference. I'll probably just give it to you when I see you. But this picture which claims to be of James Morton, and there he is, and he's somehow
connected to the Kennedy assassination. But the image is weird because it doesn't match up with any of the guys that I think are supposed to be matching this up to in the case. Did you ever take a look at that or get into that any because I sent you there?
You know what, do you remember that now that you mentioned it? I can't. My memory is terrible. I can't remember if I didn't any follow up rings a huge bell. I do remember it didn't look like the James River Martin pictures that we have. We have a picture of him escorting Marina into the warrant commission, right, and a couple other ones. But this, if my memory is correct, did not look like him.
Well, I'm gonna bring it to you because it's either a up I AP. I have a few from CBS television. I'm gonna bring a small collection of these things with me to the conference because I know people will be interested in these in these photos. But I'm gonna try and give you that James Martin photo because I'd love for you guys to follow up and tell me about you know, who the hell this guy is, because it's weird. He's actually giving testimony to something here in the descriptor.
You know, they put little like a paragraph under, under or on the back of these photographs all the time you've seen them. I mean, do you own any of these, like, you know, archive photographs from any of the press agencies. Do you have any of that stuff yourself?
A couple not many time.
Okay, well, I'm gonna bring this one because it's the first time I've ever seen Martin show up in one, and I just happened to notice it in my collection, which is why I thought you guys would find it interesting. Maybe you and Rob can do some follow up on it on The Lone Gunman because I'd love to know, just you know, a little shout out. I'd appreciate if I give you the photo. You know, Kelley gave this to us.
And you can come on. You can come on and chat about it once we do it.
Yeah, definitely, so okay, But anyway, Yeah, you did this whole thing on the Martins last year, so what's up with this year? Yeah?
So yeah. So of course Rob Clark and Doug Campbell, my partner for this year, are podcast partners as well of the book Hits podcast right, which debut is about once every month. And I'm you know, Doug and I did not really plan this. It was kind of an offhesis of of something we were looking into. I'm gonna get to in a second, and.
Uh, you know, we.
You know, I just want to thank actually Kenneth and Gabby because we were initially scheduled for Sunday, but I am flying out Sunday, so they moved us to Saturday. Before Bill Simpach and after Gail Nicks Jackson. Of course, Doug Campbell wrote the chapter in Gail's book, Pieces of the Puzzle, And you know, we're going to get into Cuba Shocker and Cuban prisons.
MM and and and what effect.
That might have had on the jfk A. But you know, we have a few characters we're going to explore, and we are we're going to do it live, which you know, Rob and I did it virtual this last year, as in it was pre recorded, so it's going to be a little different challenge. But we are just so excited because, you know, we're going to get into a lot a few characters that were in the prisons that I know
almost all of your listeners will recognize. I'm not going to name them all, but they're they're going to be very obvious and some that might not be as obvious.
And you know, we're gonna ex you know, there isn't really a definitive timeline of of Cuban prisons and who was held there and what their overlap was, right, what these characters like, were they in the same prison, did they share a cell, did they refer to their stays or to each other and say they're hsea testimonies and you know it's I'll give you one name, Santo Trafficante Junior.
Yeah, okay, that was the first name that popped in my mind because I'm thinking about the the slew of Italians that were in the prisons in Cuba for various reasons, and Trapiccanti is one of the biggest names. So yeah, there you go.
Yep. Yeah. And so when Pastro really took over in like mid kind of nineteen fifty nine and like you know, march into Cuba, he imprisoned a lot of mafioso's, right, a lot.
Of them when he officially took the place on New Year's Eve if I remember correctly, right, you know, very shortly thereafter. I mean it's almost like, you know, the reason why they played it out the way they did in the movie The Godfather is to give Michael Corleone the ability to get out of there, but not everybody escaped via a private plane that night, just saying would would you agree with that? Joe? Yes?
Yes, And you know a lot of the characters we're going to talk about really were imprisoned I'm going to say, like mid nineteen fifty nine over the summer, including soundtra Tafa Conte. I don't want to give too much away. Maybe someone by the name of John Martino.
Yeah, and there were maybe some deals struck with some other characters you might know who went down there to assist in getting their releases as well. Is that correct, Joe? Just in general?
Yeah, of course. Louis McWillie was one of the ones who was alleged who admitted in his AHCA test that he visited Persconia On Prison, which was the immigration center where the mafiosas were held up, and he brought a fellow with him. And this name will probably be familiar to I hope everyone who's listening right now, and that would be Jack Ruby.
Yes, sir so. And that is only the beginning actually of what you could learn tracking this. So this will be fascinating because to my memory, I mean, outside of a few people have gone through, you know, some of the adventures in Cuba. Joan Mellen comes to mind. You know, she discussed some of this in one of those books. It might have been The Great Game in Cuba where she discussed part of this, but again, nobody's gone in depth.
And even if they did, they mentioned the mafia guys, but there was more to it than just the mob guys.
There were the mercenaries, yeah, were I mean there, I mean, and there are people that were just yeah, I mean working on rigging slot machines for for uh Cuban casinos that were then when cast Up took over, they were imprisoned. I mean, you have such a big discrepancy from some people like and we'll get into in our Lancer presentation
in the exact dates, but soundra traffic content. He spent like two months in a Cuban prison, and even when he was released and he had to go attend his daughter's funeral which was in Cuba, like then he like didn't want to go back to the US because he had like wards on him. I mean, there, we're going to give a really definitive timeline of all these characters uh in this presentation, And you're right, Truck, there is
nothing about this. There's nothing about the overlap. There's nothing about who like who and who acknowledged knowing the other, and UH, it's going to be fascinating. I think it's Uh it's still we're still working on it, of course, UH being the the procrastinator that I am, Dougson, but it's it's going to be really good. And I you know, UH,
people like David Boylan and Larry Hancock, who I know. Oh, by the way, I want to say this, your episode on what's the difference between an informant and UH an agent and and what's a soft file that you did a couple of months ago with them or a month or two ago was was great because I just loved it.
And but that those people really know the most about UH Cuban affairs and UH and you know we're consulting with them, and UH, we hope it's going to be a really enlightening and educational presentation forever for for maybe more amateur researchers, for the most serious researchers, because even I've been a lot of money chuck that the most the top researchers can't put dates on when these people were in when they got out, who they were in there with they might have an idea, but.
You know, yeah, it would take me a while to assemble a timeline like it would take me a few months worth of work for sure. I don't have anything like that at my fingertips or in my mind that I could draw upon. And usually I'm pretty good with
this kind of stuff. But no, I don't think it's ever actually been laid out with any sort of documentation, with anything to really back it up again, And you know, people connect a few pieces of hearsay together and drop it normally that's what happens, honestly when it comes to this issue. Uh So, no, I'm looking forward to this.
Because this will be and h no, I'm sorry, and uh yeah, everything we have it is backed up by documents with you know, none of it is going to be here, say, and you know, we have a drop offs full of documents that that will make public at some point for interested researchers. But uh, you know it's
I guess at heart, I'm a document researcher. And I'm going to credit this Hilarry Hancock when when I met him last year, because you know, and I made a joke about this a little lone gum and I was like, man, I feel bad for Larry because, like, do you know how many decades he said to deal with listening to every crazy theory And these days it's like if you don't have the documents, like, don't waste my time?
Well yeah, basically yeah, I mean, and look, you can't you can't argue. I loved Larry's presentation, by the way, uh last year, which this year, Larry will be there virtually. Uh, David Boylen will be present. As a matter of fact, I'm gonna give you guys the whole schedule real fast. Uh. Friday, you got Mike Swanson, Sarah Jordan Hines, Brian Edwards, Casey Quinlan, and then there's a dinner in a presentation. Uh. On Saturday, you got Dick Russell, will of Hallerin who you've heard
on this show. Jacob Hornberger, who you've heard on this show, Bob Nelson, Uh, Paul blow who has been on this show but not in a while, Jeff Meek, and David Boylen altogether.
Uh.
Then you have uh, let's see Saturday continuing Carline Sabastano, Gail Nick Jackson, Doug Campbell, and Joe BURRELLI as he mentioned Bill Simpitch and then a banquet okay, and then on Sunday, Gary Fanin, Daniel Sheehan, uh Andy Keel leave is how you pronounce that we got a lunch break? Then Fred Litt, when Alex Harris, okay, Larry Hancock and
David boy lyin. Although Larry will be there virtually and David will be there in person, Matt Doutitt, Brent Holland, Robert Groden, Janet Groden and Paul Blau will close it on Sunday, just to let you know. That's the total schedule as it stands right now. But Larry'll be there virtually this year, kind of like what you guys did when Rob did virtual and you were there in person. Larry'll be doing that with David boy Lin, so and
that ought to be interesting. I don't even have a preview on their presentation actually, although I think he's gonna have to talk about the Oswald puzzle pieces because the Oswald puzzle is out for pre order now, as I let you guys know last week on the show with Larry. So anyway, I'm looking forward to this man. This is gonna be really good and it'll be a unique piece of work, so you know, and I don't say that that often, to be honest with you, a lot of things,
it's just we're rehashing something, We're going back over something. Okay, you think you can find something that hasn't already been found, maybe you can. Okay, great, But frankly, this is unique. So I really do look forward to you guys doing this and you're gonna have handouts this time too.
Or what well, I mean, I'm not sure what the audio visual or the visual setup is going to be this year at the Marriott, so I can't say. Last year, I did kind of like an audible and realized that some of the people towards the back wouldn't see because I didn't blow up the documents enough the specifics that I want them to see. That I and shout out to the Lorenzo Hotel for accommodating me. They printed out like thirty document for thirty copies of four different documents
like one twenty. It didn't charge me a cent and also gave me advantages after my scooter falls, So nice to you.
Yeah, I'm hoping, I'm hoping we won't have to print out documents for this, but you know, we we we take it as it goes, you know, it depends.
But I can't wait, Chuck, I mean, I can't wait for you to MC. I know I've been talking to Alex, Harris, Kenneth and Gail and you know we're going to be following Gail and it's just a great spot for us, the Lone Gunman, the Dallas Action which is Dougs podcast and Quick Hits and yeah, we're hoping we can make it a really fascinating presentation. And the great thing about it is Bill Simpach is a real expert on this topic and he's going to be there in person presenting
after us. So we're hoping. I have a little Q and A. So I know Larry is moderating the Facebook group. I was emailing with him this week. I think he told me so maybe he could submit a question and Builk and chime in in person and we can just have a really great conversation. And that's what it's about.
And that's why I think Rob and I are are our to our horns, but just are really good because like we really don't have a agenda here right, a certain faction or element, like we just kind of follow the fact, same thing for Doug and I know with a lot of people and the Oswald puzzle. And I hope that some of the help I gave Larry earlier in this year makes it through editing and into the book,
because that would be really cool. I already gave some hints about what those could be earlier in theisode, but uh, you know, I'm last year. I didn't mean a researcher. Even if we completely disagreed on everything, that wasn't completely nice to me. And and that's just the vibes Lancer and it's great. And I know there's a couple of conferences more like you know j the Very Baker and some other conference, but like Lancer is the best by far, and I can't wait to be there. I can't wait
to see you again, mister Chuck. I hope you can be my spotter and fill me when I uh, when I go with my scooter conkering mission there.
Well, look, any anything I can do, I'll actually have missus O with me and and Frankie, so I'll have a couple of extra pairs of hands to do a few things. So we'll get it done one way or another. And it's it's gonna be a good time. So I definitely urge people to get this, to get in on it. There's a graphic out there, it's kind of funny. One of the graphics has you, Me, Doug and Brent Holland on it. That's an interesting little graphic out there. And
there's some other schedules and things out there. But I've been trying to share this stuff on social media, and I really hope that you know that anybody listening is going to participate. Like I said, you can get online and participate virtually. Assassinationconference dot com. You sign up over there and if you want ten percent off and show them that you're supporting my show, Ocelly ten is the is the code you can use and you get ten
percent off. More than happy to get a discount for anybody on anything, but whether you're going there virtually or not, I appreciate it anyways. So Joe, in closing though, why don't you tell people where they can find the Loan Gunman.
Of course, there's the YouTube channel now, but you guys, of course are out there in your podcast form, your regular podcast form or anything else you want to go ahead and plug, go right ahead, and we'll close it out now as we've been at it for about an hour, which is good enough, I think, and I'm looking forward with this too.
Yeah, I'm surprised. Usually we go on tangents and it's much longer. But yes, sir, The Lone Gunman Podcast l O n E. Gunman Podcast on YouTube dot com and Twitter and spreaker and all their Apple podcasts, all of their podcast platforms. We go live every seven pm Eastern every Friday night. I know you have a show on Friday Night Live as well, so for o Chelly listeners, check us out on the replay of course, right.
Well, either that or tune in over there at seven o'clock and then come on over before I'm done at ten, and you can call in and tell me about what you heard on the Lone Gunman if you want, because I'm more than happy if anybody wants to pop on there and even promote other Sometimes people come on and promote other people's podcasts. I like it better if they're coming on to talk about their own. But you know
that was happy. I had Gail nick Jackson on my Friday night call in a couple of weeks, like maybe last month and I loved that because it was right after I had just been asking Gail, you got to come to the conference this year, you know, blah blah blah. And the next thing I know is she called in to let me know that they had put her on the schedule, and I was like, oh, perfect, because I wanted her there this year. And I also made sure to get Jacob Hornberger on there as well as a speaker.
And I'm really really grateful that Mike Swanson is actually leading off the conference. So it's going to be a good one and really interesting. I mean, especially if we get some unique stuff like Joe and Doug are gonna do. But Lone Gunman you can get on most podcast platforms, especially on YouTube. Go ahead and search it out. But you're live on YouTube on Friday nights or what.
Yeah, So we go live every every Friday night at seven pm Eastern, and we've been doing that every week since Lancer last year or I guess the twenty second was like a Monday, right so ever since then. And listen, it's a grind to come up with interesting topics every week because you know, a lot of our audiences I'm sure like yours, like very having a lot of knowledge on the JFK assassination, so you can't just recap things
every week and expect to get attention. So we were always trying to come up with with new topics, new ideas, new guests. We hope to have a couple of answer guests on as well in the coming weeks and after Lancer, And yeah, I mean, it's it's just I mean, Lancer is just a great networking event. I mean I would have never met Larry. Larry, for example, I would have never sat down with him for over an hour on
Sunday morning and showed him the documents I found. And you know he's blown away by a couple of them. And you know that that would have never happened if I was in Dallas. And I might be newer to this community than most. You know, Rob's been grinding away at the Long Gun in for over ten years, like I know You've been grinding away a long time. So I'm just happy to be a part of the community.
You know.
I respect everyone that that does good research in it. I respect the friends I made, like like you Chuck last Lancer, like Kenneth, like Alex Harris, like Doug Hampbell. I met him in person for the first time. It's just it's a great community and by far the best conference out of the three. I might be biased, but I can't wait to see you again and to see everyone else, and yeah, what's connection. For sure, I'm thank you again for having me on, sir.
Absolutely. Another highlight, by the way, is you get to hang out with Robert Broden one of those days too, because you know Groden as much as you know. Look, you can argue with his books or whatever, but nobody has released more photographic evidence to the public. Nobody has participated in these things. I mean, he was part of the HSCA, the photographic work that was done there and all of that, plus part of many legendary documentaries, et cetera.
And I enjoyed being able to sit down with him because I've encountered him a few times over the years, but was able to sit down and talk with him at Lancer, you know, at length if I wanted to. I think I actually ate dinner next to him too. At the one night we had dinner, no, actually twice because Dealey Plaza UK people went over to oh Man went over to the restaurant Campes. He's over there, and Bob was at the end of the table too, and
then I went and sat down with him. Thursday, I definitely want I don't know what night I'm gonna go, but I'm definitely going to Campezes one night while I'm there. I love going over there. The original location, by the way, the one where Jack Ruby actually used to eat uh,
is the one that I go to. Uh. And yeah, there must have been like thirty people from Dealey Plaza UK there when Bob sat down and I sat down at the end of the table, and it was just like this long line of very cool people including uh, oh Man, Johnny, Johnny Carnes, Cairen's what however you pronounce that? You know? Uh? And he he's great uh. And I was like, oh, good, I see one of my own. There's tattoos and uh, you know and something like that, and I said, oh, it's one of my guys. Felt
really good. And I even brought Pepete with me last year. He's not gonna make it this year. But but instead of that, miss is O with me, So you guys will meet the missus. That'll be different. Anyways. First, yeah, me too, and my son will be with me. It's going to be an interesting time in Dallas November twenty second to the twenty fourth. And like I said, you can also attended virtually Assassination Conference dot com and one more time, Ocelly ten is the code you can put
in to get ten percent off. So I want to thank Joe Burrelly for being on have youse expressed by callers schools. There anyone else who happens to get on the air of Jelly dot com.
You've not necessarily reflect the views of Kelly dot Com or Juck Kelly, and we are not responsible.
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