The o' Chilei effect is sponsored by Wallstreet, Window dot Com and listeners like you Now and Now and Media Tech. Twenty sixth day of October twenty twenty three, allegedly, according to that thing we call a calendar, and your humble host, being one tooth shorter than he was the last time he spoke to you, is live here on the Ocelli dot com radio network, but of course most of you are catching the podcast further on down the stream, et cetera, and so on and so forth. Anyway, gonna try to
limit my talking a bit tonight. I know I always say that and never do it, but believe me, I'm gonna have to. Uh. Anyway, good thing, because I have a guy who actually came up in an email discussion just this morning. Weird email discussion that's starting to go around because well they said I should have a panel of professors. Okay, And people often refer to Larry Hancock as a professor, although I'm not sure if you were ever a professor, Larry, You've been many things, but have you
been a professor in the past? You know, this is not like have you ever been a part of the Communist Party or anything? But I mean, although to some people who would be okay, joking done, the thing is, you know, they said I should have a panel of experts and it should be the you know, the the event with the professor's panel regarding
JFK. And more than one person brought this up and that we should sort of have a panel discussion after what goes on in Dallas, and I thought it might be a good idea, but I don't know if I can schedule enough of the people that they considered professors, whether indeed they were professors or not together on one show. But I'm gonna try it, guys, just so you know, and would like to invite Larry right now to join in on that where it's like the best experts we can assemble kind of on a
show to recap where it is we are actually at after sixty years. So it's a floating idea right now. Might not come to fruition Larry, but we have plenty still to talk about even without that. And Larry, of course, if you go to larrydsh Hancock dot com or Larryhyphenhancock dot com, you can follow his blog. You can follow a lot of stuff. And oh, by the way, we'll both be at the Lancer Conference, which
does say it's partially presented by Larry Hancock as well. Over there if you go to the links and you will see links in the show notes here to the JFK Lancer event which runs from November nineteen. Oh, excuse me, from November seventeen to nineteen. Pardon me again, from November seventeen to nineteen this year coming up, just a couple of weeks from now, and Larry will be indeed a presenter, somebody involved in the conference as he has been
for many years, et cetera, et cetera. And guess what, I'll be there too, And we're planning on making this one very different and yet with a lot of familiar faith is a lot of good stuff, and the schedule looks promising. But tonight we're going to get into a specific subject that I think hasn't been covered adequately by people that usually even cover this. But before we get there, Larry, how are you doing tonight, sir? I'm doing well tonight, Chuck. I'm feeling good. I'm looking forward to
the conference, looking forward to being in Dallas again. So I'm a good jape. Excellent, You know, I don't think there's a bus tour this time, but there is a banquet, and I'm planning on attending everything I can this time, unlike last time. But you know, and hopefully you and I will get a chance to even I don't know, sit at the bar here and there. In fact, that'll be something coming up. But anyway, Yeah, let's get to the topic at hand, because I think
this is important. And look, I know how my listeners take stuff. I know exactly where their minds are going to go when we bring certain things up. So let's cut to the chase. The plots preceding Dallas, Right, we often discuss what's number one, the Chicago plot, and it is one of the more expansive things due to the work of Edwin Black, due to the work of Well the book by Abraham Bolden, the work of Whether You Like It or Not, Lamar Waldron and Tom Hartman. Right, this
has definitely been one of those things that has been discussed. If I remember, way back, Prevailing Wins reprinted Edwin Black's article from the Chicago Monthly in their interesting releases that they used to send out the plot before the plot. Right, But we're not going to talk about Chicago tonight, because I think
a lot of people have done that. In The Men Who Killed Kennedy, the original released series, right, the six parts, that was a huge thing and was I think started around the twenty fifth anniversary, but then you know, was completed much later and went on for year. He is Nigel Turner. You know, he presented a lot of interesting stuff, and you could almost say at that point in time he presented nearly anything of major interest
in the case that the public could have gotten their hands on. It seemed like, well anyway, One of the things they presented in there which has stuck with people is this idea that there was a guy named Willie Somerset who was an informant for the FBI. And again, guys, don't worry, I'm gonna shut up real soon. Here Willie Somerset is talking to this very curious character who later on comes up in other places. Some people try to claim he was in Dearly Plaza, YadA, YadA. But point is there
was an interesting fellow there that he was talking to. And the idea that somebody said that the Kennedy thing was going to get taken care of because it was in the workings and so on and so forth. Maybe even the suggestion that there might be a rifle from an office building, alarm bells going off in people's heads if they hear about this later, because Texas school book Depository le rb Oswald a rifle seems like elements of the story. And by the
way, this was recorded before the assassination. And we've talked about the Secret Service, especially recently with Paul Landis blah blah blah. But what about the threats? I mean, I brought up Chicago, of course, on this show, I talk about Florida, and I also talk about Los Angeles. There may have been others that we don't know about. There were constantly threats
being assessed, but some were more serious than others. And yet there might be a lot more to say than what we saw in The Men Who Killed Kennedy regarding things going on in Florida. And oh, by the way, just so happens to be where jam Wave was, and oh, by the way, just happens to be where a lot of anti Castro Cubans and well a lot of other Cubans had wound up immigrating to any seems like the real hot bed of possible activity, and people have pointed many different sticks in many
different directions here regarding this. There's a lot that could be said about the state of Florida, what was going on, regarding the Cuban exiles, the Cuban immigrants, the Cuban expats, whatever you want to call them. And yet there are people that really focus on it and others who just kind of
dropped the ball. And hey, let's go back to the Chicago plot one more time, because we've got a possible you know, suspect here, and we've got a former marine and we've got Thomas Arthur Valet is the same guy I just mentioned twice already. Either way, We've also got anti Castro Cubans and Abraham Bolden's story and I don't know, but what about Florida? Is there more to it? And I'm obviously setting it up so you can knock it down. Is there more to it than the Willie Somerset informant tape?
Okay, that that was my inswer I'm on now right, that's yes, I think, I think, And a couple of things, high level things jump out of this if I try to discuss it in a bit of detail and that is that so much. So much was when the original stories were written about Chicago or uh, Miami. Lots were written over years that made these things very mysterious that have stayed in circulation. And the more mysterious things are, the more people tend to come up and talk to them and and
they never get put to bed. Okay, Uh, if we were to approach any of the cities that you just mentioned, Chuck, with what we know now, we would probably tell a different story and a much simpler story for one of the things when when you get to Miami, what we what We have two real sources in Miami, one Willie Summerman set who is in a recording talking about getting a gun and talking about people who might shoot Kennedy.
It's important to remember that we really now fully understand why that recording was made and what happened after it was made. When I first started into this, one of the big mysteries that everybody talked about is how could they have that recording in Miami? And it must be a conspiracy in a plot because nobody did anything about it, nobody followed up on it. You know, there's part of this master conspiracy. We're not even going to try to deal
with threats against Kennedy. Well, the reason the tape was made in the first place is it was made as part of a sting. Was Somerset participating on a fellow who was going to be selling a rifle to be used by some of the people at Somerset was in contact with to assassinate Martin Luther King. Long story there is to wester and I cover it in our books on the m Okay Assassin assassination, and i'mnoxious detail, but that's the reason why
that tape was made in the first place. That had nothing to do with JFK. It's just the remarks about Kennedy are just remarks that came out of that conversation. However, it is important to know, as we now know that that was reported to the Secret Service, it was reported to the FBI. The FBI did go out and interview the people whose names were mentioned on the tape. In their standard classic fashion. They'd walk up to the door and say, hey, we understand that you guys might kill the president.
Is there anything to that? And that you know the guys would deny it and everybody would walk away. That's almost the way it comes off. You know, what can the FBI do. It's like they show up, knock on the door, the people deny that have any evil intentions against anyone, and we're done. The FBI did keep certain people under surveillance in the radical racist community, and so the people that were mentioned were not unknown to them.
They knew where to find them, they knew the sort of things that they were about, which generally didn't have anything to do with JFK as a as a primary he was on a long list of Jews and capitalists and you know, freedom bus writers and et cetera. However, we also know that
so the lead did get pursued by the FBI. The lead got reported to Secret Service because on that tape it's mentioned and in's someplace that Joseph Miltier, who is on the tape involved in the tape and mentioned it, mentions that the assassination, the attempt on JFK might occur in Washington, d C. Because of that and the way the Secret Service operated, this was put in a threat file. But the way the Secret Service did their work or they
compartmentalized it to the extent that there were no generic threats. There's a threat in worship in DC. There's a threat in Chicago, there's a threat in Los Angeles. We put it in the folder, and if the president is going to that city, we'll pull that folder and oh, gosh, well there may be a threat that's been reported. Will go check these people out.
Obviously, that was a totally nonsensical way to handle It's like they could not conceive that there would be an exexstential threat by a group that or an individual that could carry it out anywhere in the nation. But that's the way
they handle it now. Just for an aside, here, Joseph Miltier, who is the guy that I referenced and didn't name, is, as you mentioned here, someone who is a credible threat in general, because he was apparently going around participating it in some way or other in various plots to assassinate people, different people, maybe possibly other civil rights leaders, doctor King specifically.
Right, So it's not as though this is a guy who's a random name who comes up here, and yeah, he was associated with people who had they had long list, the list of people, and the FBI was well aware that they were actually training rifle squads to kill a list of people JFK, RFK, basically major Jewish investment figures. Financial figures were high on the list. Actually, they were higher on their list than the civil rights leaders. I mean, these people had a shopping list and they were quite
serious about this. So absolutely he's not one that you're going to laugh at. And everybody he's associated with is on the FBI's you know, basically surveillance list with good reason, because this guy's going around literally, you know, trying to raise money, right, He's he's lobbying people to raise money, even to put toward these efforts, to put toward these guys, to train, to prepare, to lay things out, to get rid of a whole bunch of people that they think are a threat to Well, let's just be
blunt White America. And Stu, you know, Stuart Wexler, who is also gonna present at Lancer, right, you know, co authored things with you about this specifically, and so this is of interest. But it goes far beyond just this one mention here on the tape. As I was saying, so go ahead, please continue, Yeah, and it really comes out as a diversion. I mean a lot of these things once you understand the context and who's talking about what and what was really done about it? No,
it's no longer mysterious. It is a diversion from the real, known, serious threat that the Secret Service was dealing with in Miami. And it's kind of amazing to me that the one absolutely documented official threat, forget about la forget about Chicago, the one place that the Secret Service was so concerned about an attack on JFK occurring that they went to the CIA and asked for their help. I mean that almost never happens, was in Miami, because
they had a series of threats against JFK coming out of Miami. To them, the Secret Service did that there would be attacks carried out on the President during his appearance in Miami, and they were very targeted. They were from a certain segment of the very radical Cuban exile community that was extremely irate JFK over the Cuban missile crisis at the time, you know that, So it
was very focused. And it's amazing to me that that kind of gets put on the same level as all these other threats, right, and all these other incidents where the Secret Service was so concerned in Miami that first of all, they canceled a car ride that JFK had and rather than taking him from his arrival point to his hotel in a car, they put him in a helicopter. They went to the Secret Service and said, could you help us
to sign some of your people, some of your intelligence people locally. We need to put all these folks under surveillance, and the CIA obliged them. And even with all of that, there was an actual dynamite bomb planted along the route that JFK was going to take to a speaking appointment. So we have an actual attempt, and there was a documented report of a sniper in
the area where he was appearing. So these are real life, hardcore official reports, no speculation, and yet they don't stand out from the noise. You know, if you were looking at this on some kind of a media said, well, good heavens, then obviously the real known threat to the president is coming out of the Cuban exile community, which is go ahead, sorry, the dynamite bombing. You're referencing the nineteen sixty attempt, aren't you.
In nineteen sixty three, there was actually another dynamite bomb was found along as motorcy route. There's actually a newspaper story out. Okay, that's another one because in Palm Beach, Florida, right, there was a guy in pablic who was charged and caught. And you know that's I believe the infamous story that he saw the kids and decided to change his mind actually was pretty close. And yeah, he tried to position himself to blow up Kennedy.
This is why I keep saying Florida, because it wasn't just Miami where threats had been you know, had had been a credible, very credible in motion. That's a near miss right there in nineteen sixty right, and yeah, absolutely so. But yeah, so this is a different that in nineteen fall of nineteen sixty three, two different actual threats on site. You know, they didn't catch anybody, they were reported they did find the explosives. I
you know, I give the link to the newspaper story. So it seems like that should stand out head and shoulders above anything else if you're talking about a risk to the president that you can attribute to a certain group of individuals. If I were in the Secret Service, and it's kind of like, wait a minute, where are we going to go where some of these other Wherever we're going, we need to watch for these kind of people. And what makes this really interesting to me, Chuck, is again people don't seem
to relate it. You mentioned the Los Angeles threat, which came, as I think from Richard K. Snagel in some detail, and which he attributed specifically to a couple of very radical Cuban exiles in Chicago. The real threat that Abraham Bolden talks about is not Thomas Valley. That was completely independent. It was about a report that his Secret Service office received from the FBI about two people that were traveling again Cuban exiles, radicals that were traveling in Chicago
that might be considered a threat. So if you really tied back, if I was sitting there, you know as of October at Secret Service Protective Service Headquarters, I would be looking at these things like there's a common factor going on. We really need to if we're going to focus on somebody. It's a threat, it's common in all these locations, and it just kept getting worse. Something. You know, by the time it's in Miami, it really is not only ex extential, you know it's real and you have real
evidence that somebody's trying to carry it out. Yet when we follow this on with to Dallas. Their protocols were such that when they go to open the folder, the PRS folder for Dallas, there's nothing about a threat in Dallas from anybody except from the right wing. The people who had protested against Stevenson. Right, the people who had chased Lyndon Johnson down the street, who who had chased the UN ambassador down the street and hit them over the head
with placards. This is the threat we're going to look at. Because people have happened in Dallas before. We can't bring anything in, So we're going to be concerned about people that hit folks with signs rather than people that had
dynamite and rifles in Miami. Right, people that were making themselves obvious by printing stuff in newspapers right that they wanted him, you know, and handing out flyers that they wanted for treason, this kind of stuff, Right, This is what they were looking at and not you know, hey, maybe there's guys with dynamite and oh, by the way, how is it that anti Castro Cubans are somehow involved here in Chicago? And also, I mean
in Miami, it would make perfect sense. Proximity. Again, this is about proximity too, and the Bay of Pig still being a thing that carried negative sentimentality among the Cuban community in general. Right, So it seems to me as though, you know, again, there's a whole lot more to be said about all over the state of Florida, specifically the places he's going.
But we've had a whole history here going back already. I mean, he wasn't even actually sworn in as president yet when this bombing attempt, the one I was talking about was first made, right because I think that was December of sixty which he's sworn in in January sixty one. So you know,
here we go. There are things going on now that's not tied to the Bay Pigs obviously, but what's going on here and here we go, it's well beyond just the Summerset recording, which again is startling because it seems to give a preview in a way, right, in a loose sort of way, to what the official story would be later. But there's a whole
lot more going on. So I find this interesting, especially when you know, we got treated to the details from the Kennedy detail, right, and we're listening now to you know, our friend in the Secret Services giving a new story about how you know, look at the very least he tampered with some evidence by moving it by based on his admissions as to whether they're accurate
or not. Another story. It's selling a book pretty well. But nonetheless, we have a whole thing going on with the Secret Service here, and it almost seems reasonable that somebody at certain points said, maybe that suspicious activity right there right the enemy within concept, because look, you got these guys that were drinking the night before in Dallas, before the event that happened.
You have these clear you know, we're only looking at it after the fact, but it seems like nobody took certain things seriously enough earlier on to track down any greater threats, and there probably were many that it seems like, you know, the independent researcher seems to be able to discover later, but the Secret Service in real time trying to come up with threats. What are they doing? Are they doing their job bad or are they doing their job
badly on purpose? Or is this just you know, a symptom of the times. No agency could have foreseen any of this. I'm just saying it opens up a whole lot of questions, doesn't it Yeah, I think, and I think that's what it really does to me. That's why the Somerset lead is important because we can track it. We now have the documents to show how it was handled, and in knowing how it was handled, it
exposes a systemic weakness in Secret Service protection. And I think it directly addresses the question you're talking about, Chuck in that now it's not a mystery or at least personally a view as a mystery as to what was not done. You know, was it intentional or was it an oversight? It was a systemic problem that it was just the way that they handle threats. It was
they could not translate. They had no generic threat. They weren't looking at They were looking at threats the way that the Secret Service always had somebody. It's almost an up close and personal threat, you know, who's going to step out and attack the president. They had never dealt with an organized attack
by multiple individuals. You know that it wasn't part of their protocol. They could just they were setting there waiting for individuals to report threats that someone had made against the president, and then they would go out and investigate them, which is in one way. It's actually a very criminal justice approach, Like we can't do we can't be proactive, right, we can't go out and start shaking people down just because we suspect their threat. Now, if somebody
provides us a lead or some something is actionable, we can go. We just can't get ahead of it. You know. That's and that's that is true for law enforcement in general. Right, you know, you can't you can't pull somebody in until the crime is committed, no matter. You can try to do something aboard it to abort it. But it's just the way they operated in Texas for example. I mean they did have a standing threat that was reported on the Texas trip out of San Antonio, right, and
we know that that's in the files. Did they do any special protection in San Antonio? Not as far as I can tell. What we're The real hole that we have in all of this, and I think this is important, is we don't have people spent a lot of time investigating the CIA and the FBI and the Dallas Police Department as far as they're practices. Right, you know, how do you how do you guys do your business? Why? Why did you Why did nobody ever ask why did you not translate this
Miami threat to Dallas? Nobody ever asked that question. Nobody even made the challenge. In fact, we don't have the files, the PRS files on what was really been done. Vince Palamara quite frankly dug up the interesting fact that at least one new individual who appears to have been almost like an intelligence guy, was assigned to the presidential detail about this time. Was there a reason for that? We don't know why it was brought on board. There's
some suspicion. Bent seemed to suggest that he may have been an electronics specialist. Did somebody think someone was bugging the president? You know? But we have no insight we know, for example, in Dallas, Okay, we don't know what Headquarters told Dallas Secret Service of US to do. They weren't part of the presidential detail, right did they? I'm told one of you know, very few of them talked that much, but one of the Dallas Fort Worth Secret Service detail guys said, oh, we had no orders,
We nothing special, no special duties. How can that be? You know? Even the Dallas police I interviewed the guy who's a reserve intelligence officer. I said, were you doing that day and said they had me over at Black Panther headquarters watching them. Okay, well that's good, but in terms of connecting the dots, there's a real hole on the Secret Service. You know that did they do some things that we don't know about? Is that why those trip records went missing? Was that mysterious or not? Or I
still don't know what's in them. People say, oh, they really didn't go missing, but I can't find them. You know, we don't know that they might not have been trying to do some things. Certainly the presidential detail we know about, but we don't know about the rest of protective services, because nobody ever focused on protective services like they did the CIA or the FBI or Dallas police, right, and one could say that, look,
they were trying to deal with it as what has happened before. And the idea that someone would attack the president from a distance outside of a couple of shots that I know about taking it maybe Lincoln, you know, nobody knows, and of course no Secret Service then not for presidential protection. Outside of
that, you don't have somebody taking a shot at a distance. Most of these it would be attacks on the president, whether they were successful or they were near successful, whether it's you know, Gerald Ford or it's the others. You have people trying to attack close up, which is a different situation from what occurs here in Dallas. Right. The idea that you have a sniper from a distance is not something that was really the main focus, which
is weird. Yeah, you're right, totally right, Chuck. What it strikes And this is my impression. My impression is that it's kind of the old military thing about you always fight the next war based on the last one, right, and that's what gets you in trouble. I think that's it. With a Secret Service. They always prepared for future attacks as they had based on what had happened before, and they just weren't up to anything other than individual threats. And we can kind of see that in Chicago. Okay.
Separate from the Bolden and the Secret Service from the FBI, that whole threat, totally separate is the fact that the Secret Service did get a report from a guy who had talked to another guy and a Bowling Alley diner at breakfast, and this guy was talking about something needed to be done about the president. That was reported secret Service, and they did follow up on it.
They went out and did a covert call in his apartment. They arranged for the police to pick him up and make sure he was in custody that day. They were all over it. They could understand that, right. I got a lead from a guy that says this guy might do something bad against the president, and they handled it with their standard practices and neutralized him.
This is getting Valley pulled over, and you know he has this many rounds in his trunk and all that stuff, and at least they have him in custody at the time, etc. But separate from that is the other threat, right, which is this thing you brought up before about there's a couple of guys who are suspicious they have rifles. Right, And the report gets a little hazy here regarding this, right, Well, not when it's first. I think we're running too and I'll go out on the line.
And I was there when Abraham Bolden first told his story. I talked to him in person. I heard him speak at Lancer. It was this real straightforward story. He was the side of the case. He was in the case. He heard the guys talking. A telex came in saying there are a couple of guys traveling and they might represent a danger to the president, and it kind of told them where to go to look for them. We know where that was. That there was an apartment that they were staying at.
They went out to talk to them, and you know, okay, just kind of like val We're going to go talk to him, see what's going on. And when they went in the front door, these guys went out the back door, okay. And there's nothing that says they found anything in the room. But ultimately, and we don't know apparently that they did get caught and they did get taken ultimately into Chicago PD. But yeah, that's that's a complete and a very simple story, has nothing to do with
Vallei. And the two guys got caught and essentially or like Valley, were neutralized. They were in custody that day and then because there was nothing to charge them with, when the president didn't come, they were released. Right. So I've written a lot about that, and we in different places, and we actually even know the names because it was checked out by the FBI and they came up with okay, this person, yes, had gone from Miami to Chicago, and yes, we'd Conhier them a threat and anyway,
so to your point, though in essence, the same thing happened. They're just disconnected. People were reported as being threats. The FBI communicated it at the Secret Service, and between the Secret Service in the FBI, they kind of took them off the street during the time they might have been a threat. Did you address that? And tipping point, by the way, I
did, Yeah, okay, that's where I thought it was. Okay, great, And by the way, that's yet again one of the many books that you that you can find on Larry's website and on his you know, bibliography so to speak. There the various books by the author and again taking up a whole lot of space on my bookshelf as opposed to any other author, more spaces than anybody else. But yeah, definitely, and that's one
I highly recommend. By the way, which is the last that's the last thing you published on the assassination, right, that is that is I'm going away from the book where oute what I'm doing these days is publishing monographs because I just don't have the energy to deal with publishers anymore. But those like you'll find Tipping Point on the Mary Ferrell website. Right, you'll find links to other work that I've done, but there primarily am going to monograph route
because that just it's quicker. I can put it online. And you know that's what That's what it's happening these days. No, and you're more interested in getting the information out as opposed to adding another book to your author page on Amazon. Yeah, I know they have room on the bookshelf anymore. Well, there's that. I mean, you're taking up a lot of space here. We're killing threes, Larry, I'm joking. Look, it's all worth it. By the way, if you get a physic, I suggest
physical copies on all this stuff. But your work is continuing still too, So let's not forget about that before we're done talking today, because part of what you're going to present in Dallas are Now I'm not certain about everything you're going to do, but would you mind going back over what it is that you're going to be involved with in Dallas because one of those things I think
is absolutely necessary. Now. I did mention it with John Newman the other night that I think it would be rate if a lot of people reevaluated the character that we have all come to known know as Lee Harvey Oswald. Okay, yeah, and that does come in. I'm actually I'm doing one presentation and David Boyling is joining me. And David is doing one presentation and I'm
joining him. The presentation I'm playing lead on is basically the title of the presentation is Entangling Lee Harvey Oswald, and that presentation will be speaking to what we think we've found three different levels of what I'm calling entanglement with Oswald in nineteen sixty three, being entangled both by activities that are happening within the Special Affairs staff of the CIA, other activities that are happening within the dre operating
on its own agenda, make it to make itself look good with the CIA and keep their funding. And thirdly tanglement which led him into the actual not into the conspiracy, but into being a patsy of the conspiracy. So that'll be one presentation is on entanglement. The other presentation, which David is leading is Sylvia Odio and another look at the Sylvia Odio story, who her visitors
were, why she was being visited. In my view, David has found some explosive new information as to why Sylvia Odio was far more important to a CIA story at the time than we've ever known up to date. How that connects Sylvia Odio all the way from the United Nations to the Cuban consulate in Mexico City. And so we will be talking about an analysis of the visit and these new connections of Sylvia and who we think her visitors most probably were.
And then finally I'll be kind of keynoting the banquet and introducing kind of trying to sum up the last many decades of JFK research in about ten minutes. And we know how brief I always am, so that should work. Well, there you go. Well, look, before we depart from these particulars of what you're going to be presenting, would you mind doing me a
favor. I know this is you know, going to put you to sleep for a moment, but remind people about who Sylvia Odio is, what it is that's important because you know somebody who's not let's just say, different levels of how far read into the case you are. Sylvia Odio may be a name that people don't recognize one or two They might know it from the JFK
film or something, and say to themselves. I think there was this lady that was visited by Lee RB Oswald, and there's a place where he was spotted, according to the summation given by the Garrison character in the movie.
But I mean, could you give us a thumbnail sketch as to why that's interesting, the timing of it, etc. Sylvia Odio came to the attention of the Warren Commission and later the HSCA because it was reported to the FBI that she had told people that she'd had a visit from a couple of mysterious, suspicious unknown Cubans, and along with those was an individual name that they
named as Leon Oswald. And when after the assassination, the afternoon of the assassination, when she began to see pictures of Lee Harvey Oswald, she recognized him as that individual, and actually, at that point in time she had something of a traumatic experience was admitted to the hospital. In any event, that report came from some of the people that she had talked to came to
the FBI. The FBI investigated at some length and interested enough. It becomes fascinating because the FBI wrote it off as being just a misunderstanding on her part. She you know, she didn't really know what she was saying, and they had tracked down the three people who had visited her and it was all perfectly innocent. And that was the report that was given to the Warren Commission. So the Warren Commission could kind of like close out that lead write it
off. The fascinating thing about that is that there is an internal fbi'm memorandum this entirely contradictory to that. Yes, we looked at these three guys and know it wasn't them, and they said it wasn't them, and they we located them at their job in any event, So that's one of those instances where the internal FBI documents on Sylvia Odio say something different than what the FBI
provided the Warren Commission, and that's always entertaining. But as far as Sylvia herself, one of the reasons she's important, her family was a very prominent Cuban family in the trucking industry, had large properties and landholders, part of the establishment in Cuba, and her father was actually ended up supporting the anti Castro, the anti Castro factions in Cuba after the revolution. He became involved in some people who tried to kill Castro in a bazouka attack. One of
them was found hiding on his properties. He and his wife were both arrested and put in prison, and were still both in prison in nineteen sixty three. So it's kind of a real humanitarian case for Silvio with her her parents in prison, her whole family had to flee, etc. Etc. But because of her position, she was also very close to Manoa Ray, who had been a major political factor in Cuba pre Castro pre revolution, was leading a very progressive exile not exil group, I'm sorry. They were in exile
operating against Castro after the revolution. The group was known as Urrey. They were headquartered in Puerto Rico actually in nineteen sixty three. The summer in nineteen sixty three, Silly had gone to Puerto Rico and had a lengthy meeting with Ray, and then once she was back in Dallas, his second in command
had actually gone to Dallas to visit with her again. This visit was explained that they were looking at using Sylvia Odio as a gun buyer, as a weapons buyer, which is kind of really strange because that's not the sort of thing that Cuban women did culturally, nor did she have any connections to do that never made much sense to anybody. It didn't tie together too well. And now it looks like there may have been a much more ambitious action and
play with Ray using Sylvia for something completely separate. We'll be talking about that. But Sylvia has been a minor figure because of the prominence that she got in that FBI report, as you know, having encountered Oswald and her visitors. Supposedly one of them called her back try to chat her up, mentioned that the guy that was with him was really loco. He could kill Castro,
he could kill JFK as a real loose cannon. You kind of get the impression he's setting Oswald up. So there are several elements to the audio story that make it both mysterious internally contradictory, questionable, and that's why a lot of us who've been very involved in the research have been hung up with Sylvia and what was really going on with Sylvia and did this mean? What did it mean? Was that really leon Oswald? Gayton Phonsie spent a long
time on the audio story, something that made it even more well. In any event, Phonsie, as an investigator for the HSCA felt her story was important enough. She finally agreed that she would tell all the elements of her story which she had not told before, and he promised that he would get
her with a meeting with an hsc investigator. The HSCA investigator tried to conduct the meeting with her in a hotel room, and this did not go off well, and Sylvia made it clear that his interests were not in what her story was and she was done talking about this. So that's added a certain element lot of good heavens, what did she have to say that we are
never going to hear her? Well, there's that whole bit of intrigue, which again it's it's highly suggestible what it is that investigator wanted from Sylvia, And you know, I urged people to go read it for themselves and and
find out about that. But there is another element of this, which is the audio story is often dismissed, say by people that would advocate for the lone nut theory as what Yet again, another one of these reports that the FBI had collected, which there were many of after the fact, that was like there was Oswald everywhere, there were people, you know, and you and I talked about this, We've joked about this as we've read through this.
You know, all of a sudden, he's in Alaska, he's in you know, he's in Ohio, he's in Idaho, he's in he's in Texas. You know, two hours later, I mean, you know everywhere. It was like Oswald was seen everywhere. Yeah, at a certain point. So they've tried to brush it. You know, the positors of the world, so to speak, have most of the time tried to brush it into I don't remember if he did specifically, but guys of his ilk anyway,
have just sort of brushed it into that category, right. And what they failed to mention, Chuck is and what they never mentioned, yes, and Pausner certainly didn't mention, is the interesting fact a lot of these stories
are really disconnected, right, which makes them more mysterious. In Sylvia's case, what makes hers even more interesting is that her uncle in New Orleans, where these guys had said they came from, was actually in the courtroom with Lee Harvey Oswall when he was brought into an answer to his leaf letting issue on the street. Yeah, her uncle, fellow named Guitar was actually in the room can be seen Oswell's presence. So if that just adds another element,
that kind of it keeps her going, what in the one? What's the connection? So Oswald in her case, Oswald didn't come out of nowhere right, No, she was certainly was not a figment of her imagination, because here we go, her uncle's there. Literally, what you're talking about is the incident where there is the alleged fight on the street between Berengear and Oswald and they're both arrested and Oswald winds up pain like I think a ten
dollars fine whatever. They let the other guys go. That whole incident that led to him getting interviewed on television and radio. Right here we go, this is all connected. So again, it's not somebody, Oh I have this crazy idea in my mind. I think I saw Lee RB Oswald at the local McDonald's. No, that's not what happened here, you know. So again I just I'm glad you brought that up, because that's great. Uh, this is not something that's not interconnected. And yet we still never
got the entirety of the story. And could it be because somebody was, you know, doing the creeptastic walk with a female witness or could it be that that was intentionally done in order to completely turn somebody away from the case and wanting to reveal what it is they had to reveal. You know, it's it's interesting because a lot of the follow through not done by the officials. Aren't you surprised, Larry, Uh, you know, shocked and amazed?
Yes? Absolutely, I thought some prayers on it too, you know, just saying it's it's amazing. So anyway, that's just part of the re evaluation of Oswald, that that you'll be presenting here and putting them in a different context because I think we are you know again, uh, there are people out there with with fan fiction I'll call it where you know, they turned Lee RB Oswald into James Bond. Not buying it? Now?
Could he have been a useful asset to somebody? To a couple of somebody's looks like, yes, you know, but but here we go, h was he? And oh, by the way, does it mean that he was guilty or innocent? I don't give you an answer there. When people ask me that, you know, the whole isn't oz Oswald innocent? I say, well, I don't know. Uh do I do? I think he's the responsible party for the assassination as the Loane gunman. No, but
how he's involved, what he's involved in? That nexus again another another title Larry's books. By the way, I love using that word when you're on
uh nexus another one. I recommend that nexus of activity individuals and the confluence of so many different things here makes it, in my mind impossible to believe this is just the kooky kid that decided, you know, against a lot of what his behaviors had shown previously to one day just decide to make history with a crap rifle he got from the mail order place because it was cheap. Uh. I believe that he would buy a cheap rifle. I do
believe that, because apparently he was a bit of a planner. Yeah, Oswald. Oswell never did anything that Oswald did not plan and sketch out and prepare for. Oswald did just not do. Oswell was not spontaneous except when he got into trouble. And when he got into trouble, like many of us, you know, he would say whatever crossed his mind, you know, like okay, yes, you caught me with my hand in the till but it was an accident. But other than that, no, uh.
And and I think the one comment I would make is that if after you get really know and appreciate Lee Harvey Oswald, if you wanted to use them, it would be much better to use them at a distance then to to give him an order and think that he would follow it, because that's not something I was well did. Oh, and expect that he will improvise given that he doesn't have a plan in working order, because apparently, I mean, I would say that clearly all of his activities show a pension for improvisation.
When the plans evaporate or run out on him, you know, he runs out of stuff that was planned, you will get some improvisation. It's not as though he won't take action one way or another. So you know, whether it's the the suicidal ideation in the Soviet Union, or it's some of the curious answers he gives to things at certain times to certain people, or it's deciding to defect and then you know, so on and so forth.
Whatever in your script is not what it's going to be, right, I mean, you know, after he asks you know, another woman to marry him, he does ask another woman to marry him in Russia, I mean, you know, not Russia, excuse me, in a what is now Belarus. Uh, you know, he's willing to ask more than one woman to marry him in the space of a couple of months. I mean just saying, uh, you know, these are these are things he does when the original plan fails, he might improvise. I mean that just seems
to be a general characteristic. Also according to people who knew him intimately, I mean, little stingy with the money. I can see him bargain hunting on the rible I really can't. But just saying, you know, and uh, see Marina Oswald, if you've ever had a conversation with her at length, I'm told it's even worse than what I ever got. But just saying, apparently not a guy who was looking to be extravagant and might try
to save a dollar here there, just saying, uh. And incredibly, the way he paid back his you know, his traveling a loan, I mean, that's amazing considering what it was he was. Anyway, that's a whole other story. But Larry, I think it's going to be an interesting conference. We've we've run almost an hour here because we started a little after
the hour. But is there anything else you'd like to throw in? Because we're not going to hear from you on this show, and I'm hoping to capture a few moments of video here and there, possibly with you and I, but maybe some video of you not necessarily giving your presentation, because I'll let Lancer, you know, give those out or whatever. But who knows, Maybe I can get a couple of comments from you on video around the
bar there or something. Or maybe we can have lunch. I don't know, are you going to the box lunch setups and all that, or you just neat at the banquet, So okay, at certain points we'll get a chance to eat and talk and everything else. And like I said, I hope to get a little bit of audio or video from you, you know, when we're in Dallas, And honestly, I might forget to record stuff. I got a couple of things I want to give to you when I
see you too, a couple of little gifts and stuff like that. And by the way, I know I got a signature from you a couple of years ago. I actually have a book I want you to sign please, I'll use I promise to use the same name. Excellent. I would appreciate that because I have my my very old someone would have talked hardcover and I would like you to sign that if you wouldn't mind. But well, I'm looking forward. I think it's going to be a unique experience on the sixtieth
in Dallas. Absolutely look any one of Larry's books. I would highly recommend by the way, which you can go to you know Larrydshancock dot com. There is his blog which he has blogged about the conference. He's blogged about appearances on this show, other things going on, is work in the UAP community. Some of his other commentary responses. I think you you did a blog post about the response to the Landis revelation too, didn't you? I did? Yeyep, Okay, just just checking. But there's a lot of
other stuff over there, and it's always very interesting. I'm also wanting to get and keep track of any of these monographs that you're going to put out. Is there going to be one very soon about this reevaluation of Oswald, this entangling or de entangling of the of the man? Or are we going to see a monograph about that very soon. That'll be next year. I think we'll have that out next year. Uh, it's it's in draft form. I'm having it peer reviewed by several people. So yeah, that meant
that monograph will come out, but not not in this year. I would expect it hopefully to be maybe spring next year. Again, it's the sort of thing, as as I've told many people, if I'm going to be contrarian, I want to be consistent when I'm being contrarian, So I need to have it really checked out. And since it's it's probably going to take a different view in many areas than what is the kind of like establishment view of Oswald, I need to I need to get all my ducks in row.
Yeah, fair enough, And and you know, once again I mean you also, if you go to Larry's blog, you can see a list of presenters that are going to be at Lancer along with Larry, and you'll see my name on there as giving introductions and this kind of thing. Also, we're going to do stuff in the breakout room. There may be some unplanned things that occur here. Let's see, you're presenting with Boyln. We also have Robert Groden going to be at the banquet. By the way,
I think I forgot to mention that last time. But you're gonna hear from you know, John, John Carnes or Cairens. I always forget how to say that, Larry Schnapf. At a certain point, we're gonna hear from Monica Perez, Jimenez. I'm just giving you a couple of highlights. You're not gonna list everybody but Stu Wexler, Vince Paul Marra is still on the bill right, yes, no, Vince. Vince decided that he had nothing
to say. I see, okay, no problem. He was part of the bill, but we offered to let him do a presentation as well, but it remotely but that did not happen. Rex Bradford is going to be
speaking twice. He will be doing an extended presentation on the on basically the history of getting documents, getting documents released, getting documents accessed in great detail, and then he will be speaking at the keynote on his kind of like rodent of Rex's personal experiences over several decades in dealing with the National Archives and dealing with documents and how did we get where we are? I mean, people, these just days just accept the fact that someone can mention a document
and you can go find it online and they really don't comprehend. We may not have resolved the assassination, but we've come a lot ways down the path with the history, and he'll be talking about that at the banquet. Well, you know, if nothing else can be said, we can certainly say that we filled out quite a bit of history over the past, especially twenty five years, regarding this. A lot of mystery now has been consigned to history. We've sorted out a whole bunch of stuff, which, by the
way, linked to your Oswald you know, reevaluation. I keep searching for different words for this because this entanglement idea is one way to put it, but I know there's going to be more to it. Greg my title for it, just to get people the right perspective I'm trying to Oswald has been put in boxes. He's been made one dimensional. The Warren Commission made him
one dimensional because they wanted him to look a certain way. The research community, quite frankly, has made him one dimensional because they want him to look a certain way. Actually maybe different ways, but yeah, there's actually a couple of ways. You know, there's the innocent Oswald. Then there's the
suspect Oswald. And indeed there are different people who want to make him, you know, the angel, and there there are others that are just attempting to dislodge him from, you know, being the primary suspect one way or the other. And those agendas dictate the boxes that they're putting him in. So yeah, I'm trying to give him his own dimension. I'm writing about the Oswald dimension. And the title working title is Oswald in three Dimensions,
you know, which we don't. We need to look at him from his own perspective, how he looked at the world, what he wrote, what he said, you know, and reality checked what we have all been saying about him. I find it amazing that people still characterize him as a right winger, like hidden patriot without ever having read what he wrote in nineteen sixty three as to his real group views on geopolitics and progressivism. And it's right
there in the Warrant Commission. And I've I don't find anybody or find very few people without you know, pointing it out. It's kind of like, have you read about what he said about the world himself and and typed and wrote in the months right before the assassination. Nope, nope, nope. Wouldn't that be very important? You know? How about his speech to the religious community that he made, If you guys really looked his own words,
well, that's very important. Reading some of what he authored, I got to say he's a little more of a progressive figure, but certainly nuanced beyond what most people want to allow. Which is interesting because Greg Dudina is also doing a thing on the Walker shooting, which is which is different as we kind of showed talking to him on this show. He's got a different point of view about that than I've generally seen, right, yep, And I'll be on that panel too. There you go. Plus you know you'll hear
very truly from say James Corbett and Carlin Savastano and a few others. Bark campbe also making the presentation, and Alex Harris the youngest presenter I've ever heard of at any of these conferences or any of these get togethers presentations public education forms regarding well, the Kennedy assassination. I don't think I've ever heard of a guy who showed up there at fourteen, you know, I mean, this is making me tired, Chuck, there's gonna be so much. I
think I better go rest now, just to be ready. There you go, so again, Larry Hancock. Go to Larry Dashncock dot com. Obviously follow up on his books regarding the assassination, but a hell of a lot more Larry has written about regarding the behaviors of the national security state, whether it's about UFOs under unidentified and of course his work regarding UAPs now let's be correct, and what the national security state was doing about them. There's an
interesting thing that you're continuously working on with a group there. But also you authored that book you have, Creating Chaos, you have in Denial, which is about covert operations and not so covert operations, et cetera, surprise attack. Guess what the title kind of tells you what it is, shadow warfare, on and on. And I don't list all the books here because I got to let you go, Larry, but I really appreciate you taking the
time tonight and really looking forward to seeing you in Dallas. So good. I am merely O'Kelly and all of you are indeed the effect. Thank you for listening, and thank you, Larry for doing this always a pleasure. Chuck everybody, good night, Oh Chili dot Com, wall Stream, Window, dott Gold Silver, the stock market, wall Stream, Window, dot dot. Perhaps you're invested deeply, Perhaps you're not in deep enough. Maybe you're thinking about getting started. Wall Street, Windows dot Com, Doo dot
Com. Michael Swanson, the brilliant author of the War State, understood these trends professionally for many years, and now he gives you the benefit of his knowledge. Wall streetdo dot Dot go there, now go there, now go there now. In Denial the Secret Wars with air strikes and tanks Larryhncock. Secret wars became a staple of US covert operations and are still happening today.
Larryhancock's book In Denial rips the cover off many of them, using new files that exposes things about the Bay and Pigs that no one has ever written about before. It shows why it really failed and why the United States did not earn from it. It also shows why other countries today are doing secret operations with more success. This is the book that puts what some want to deny into the light. In Denial, Secret Wars with air strikes and tanks Larryhncock.
For more information, go to Larry hyphen Handcock dot com. Pick up your copy of In Denial at Amazon dot com, in digital or Physical Force dot Com Radio Networks. Revelation through Conversation. The War State by Michael Swanson explains the great national transformation that took place and put the Kennedy presidency in the context of the Times and reveals never before published information about the Cuban missile crisis.
President Kennedy would not have been assassinated if he had been president two hundred years ago. His assassination took place in the context of the Cold War and the rise of the national security state. Before World War II, the United States was a continental republic. In the decade that followed it became an imperial superpower. Generals such as Curtis LeMay not only wanted to invade Cuba, but knew that there were short range missiles on the island arn't with nuclear warheads that
they could not destroy because they were on mobile launchers. Their invasion could have led to a Third World War, and they wanted to go to war anyway. The War State by Michael Swanson reveals why and will show you what President Kennedy was up against for more information the warstate dot com nuclear holocaust Lord Millennium is right, think of nuclear weapons and other things like watsy Millennium is right any more dot com radio, go ahead call it about the JAFA assassination.
Right, Well, what do you want to know? Tony Baker's wild claim Oswald girlfriends he knew Ruby and Barry cancer weapons? Really, I imagine I could claim I have four wheels. It doesn't make me a wagon, but okay, bib and trying to prevent the murder of John Kennedy, Come on now has a real effort on the day as fascination. Go to Amazon dot com enter Judith Baker in her own words. You'll get the results for a digital copy of a book where Walt Brown utilizes her own words and the known
evidence in the case to get at well a different perspective. Let's say you can get Judith Barry Baker in her own words from the author himself, signed if you request it by contacting doctor Brown at k I A S J F K at aol dot com. It's a fun book and actually dissects the many, many fantastic claims Judith Vary Baker in her own words, thank you for
all the great information. If youse expressed by callers schools, there anyone else who happens to get on the air to jelly dot com, you' not necessarily replied, he views o jelly dot com or CHUCKO Kelly, and we are not responsible for any stupidity which you might ensue. Thank you going to chuck O Chelly. We're here, Choco Shelly. You know