Twenty third day of October twenty twenty four, allegedly according to that.
Thing we call a calendar. And guess what this is, the O'Kelly effect.
Now you could be hearing us on the live stream, of course at ocelly dot com radio and through your various radio apps. But then again you might also be watching the video, which I'm gonna release a little bit after the audio, and we're gonna need some visual elements tonight. But it is a Wednesday, the middle of the week, and we are broadcasting live on Ocelli dot com Radio. The video again not live, but it is being recorded. So you know, I'm not gonna make you look at
my face too much tonight. We've got other issues and other images to discuss, for sure. Special show tonight. Why you know, it's kind of a I've done hundreds of shows on the JFK Assassination. Of course, I've done shows on many different topics, whether it be the news of the day, the historical events of this that the third thing, various writings, various films, film makers, etc. People that have created a lot of interesting material, whether it be academic
or in the realm of entertainment. All of it barely relevant to tonight's discussion, but a grouping of shows absolutely various appearances with a lot of different authors and interesting people, even witnesses to history. Regarding the jfk assassination. This is kind of a unique thing. I've got a guy on who is an author. Indeed, you know, you could look for some older books like High Treason.
You could look for that book. You could look for.
Well, let's just stop talking about the ones that I don't want to talk about, and talk about.
The ones I do want to talk about. And in fact, you know what, I'm going to.
Hold up a couple of books real fast here, because visual aids are always helpful.
And actually I'm going to hold up three books for you.
Why because they are a set of three that I think is not just a required reading, but required viewing and an absolute necessity if you care to study the case in depth in any way, shape or form.
The killing of a President.
Now, this book is out there in softcover and hardcover form and has not currently in print, I don't think, but you know it was for a very long time. And again I don't care how you get it, you need it. What comes next, Well, there is the search for Lee Harvey Oswald, which, by the way, for years on Google. That was the book that I held in front of me when you know, I took a picture for some reason. I wanted something JFK related in front
of me. In the very first interview I ever did about the case was on Lee Harvey Oswald.
And guess what this is what I was holding up in front of me.
And well, now to a book you can still get your hands on. And I am really happy when you can get your hands on this thing. And in fact, we might give you some special information about how to get a really special bookmark before we're all said and done tonight.
And this one is much more current, absolute proof.
And you know what between these the photographic information in them, you know, even if you didn't know how to.
Read, I got to tell you.
And oh, by the way, the special bookmark looks a little something like this. It is a ticket from the Texas Theater from nineteen sixty three, from a particular date in fact, I think. But anyway, we'll let Bob tell you about that.
Oops, I spoiled it.
Bob Groden is the guy with us now. He worked on the House Select Committee on assassinations as part of the group of people working on the photographic evidence the film. He showed the Supruder film to the world basically on The Roaldo Show in the nineteen seventies. That is a historic piece of footage. I'm very sure if you've ever looked at an on the case, you've looked at that piece of footage. I'm sure you've seen the Suppruter film.
Okay.
Indeed, he's actually responsible for I don't know, something like eighty percent of the most well known, recognizable and essential pieces of visual information that have been presented publicly. Oh yeah, also autopsy photos things like that. He's put out there too, in magazine form. In let's see, there were videos out there. I think there still are some videos floating around out there, although you got to be careful which copies you get
and these books. Like I was just talking about magazines.
Oh and you know what.
He also used to get arrested in Dally Plaza. I think something like eighty times he got busted in Dally Plaza for doing what, oh, sharing information with people, setting up a table and saying here I am I happen to have photographic information. If you'd like to see it and giving presentations right there, just you know, a few feet away from what they call the Grassy Noll, or
maybe on the Grassy Noole. Sometimes Bob was doing presentations right there in Deally Plasa kept getting arrested some years ago, but thankfully that's not the issue today. Oh and the last thing is that he's going to be at the Lancer Conference the twenty second of November, okay this year, and I.
Am going to be mceing there. So I'm going to be hanging out with Bob.
And I'm telling you right now, as I said on the Friday Night Calling show, I don't know last week, week before week before, you know what it's worth the price of admission right there, You're going to get to hang out with a guy who was on the hsca part of that investigation. Not going to tell you which part, and we're not going to delve into that tonight, but he was there on that you know, as part of that investigation. He definitely again helped the world see the
Zupruter film, but I mean all kinds of stuff. Plus he's got a presentation to give in Dallas, and that'll be November twenty second to the twenty fourth of this year at the exactly at the Dallas Marriott Downtown. Okay, And if you go to Assassinationconference dot com you can get your tickets there. And oh, by the way, if you'd like ten percent off, Ocelli ten is a discount code you can use and get ten percent off of your tickets.
Okay.
But if you're going to go there in person or virtually, you can sign up at Assassinationconference dot com and I urge you to do so. If you haven't planned already to go, you should. And I gave out a bunch of names, by the way, this week on another show with Larry Hancock, which the audio is just starting to make its way out there, where I gave you a whole list of names. Oh, hold on a second. That
does remind me that list of names. It just happens to be on the back of a limited T shirt I'm going to have with me in Dallas.
And there's your list of names. Whoops, wait a minute, I.
Might not have my Here we go with the blind guy. Can't run the audio in the video at the same time. Right anyway, for those of you listening on radio, you have no idea what's going on. But in the audio version, let me tell you, I'm holding up a T shirt which has a bunch of the names, which does include Bob Groden and myself, Carmin Savasano. Mike Swanson is kicking off the conference, Larry Hancock presenting virtually.
We're not going to go there anymore.
I've wasted enough time running my mouth. I have to talk to Bob Groden, and I'm going to focus on one one small area which is probably the most significant and important area when it comes to evidence and the visual, the film, the uh you know.
The still pictures, all of it.
I put this on the top of the list because the Bruder film and it's legitimacy. That's what I'm going to talk to Bob Groden about. But first I got to shut up and ask him how he's doing. Bob, how are you tonight?
Doing well? Doing well? When you seem to be doing it fine?
Thankfully, I'm happy to be here with you. This is the first time you've ever done this show. I have no idea how to to, you know, compress your introduction into something that would take me only a minute to do. I have to talk very fast, but I mean your guy with a huge background, and because you started working with this film and you ended up working with seemingly every photograph that touched the case over the decades now and indeed, wait a minute, is the twenty second?
Also your birthday, by the way of November? Is that? Is that something I remember too?
That's correct? I turned eighteen of the day it happened. So yeah, I was lucky. I was playing hookey from school that day and I heard the first reports on TV which changed very quickly. The fact that I heard the original reports which were the exact opposite of what they told us later on, That's when opened up my mind, that the fact there was something crazy going on here.
Wow, and there you go. So I'm actually going to see you on your birthday.
In Dallas this year, and an unfortunate one at that, although you know, the universe lines things up for a reason. We'll leave it at that, and you know, everybody can discuss and figure out all of the ethereal concepts themselves. Let's talk about a little bit about you though, I mean, how long had you been.
Working with the Subruder film?
What would you say is are the key things in your background when it comes to JFK stuff anyway, that you would present just a few bullet points, because, like I said, if I wanted to lay out a good biography, if I wanted to give a good introduction that covered everything with you, I'd be here for another half hour.
So what do you think are the key points? Like Bob Roden who is Bob Roden Well.
Who has worked with a photographic evens for annow sixty one years and as a brutal film came into my possession through a story which I'll tell you a little while right now, sufficing to say that I have my hands on the original film, which was a miracle, a miracle. Researchers in the case have wanted to try to find the film and look at it for years and years. It wasn't until twelve years after the assassination that I
was able to release the film to the public. I had had it for several of the years, but I couldn't have I didn't have the opportunity to reveal it to the public. I was too afraid to Initially. I mean, here, we have the single most important piece of evidence in the case, and I couldn't show it to anybody. I was afraid to if somebody had found out, if the wrong person or people had found out, I would have been in the great deal of danger. So it worked out very well. Fate was on our side and a
wrong river. I found out that I had the film because I showed it at a conference in Boston, and he called me up and asked if I would be willing to show the film on his show, and I said, yeah, if you wanted to show it, I certainly am, and we got together in New York and we transferred to the film onto videotape and we just showed the film on the Good Night America. There were three segments to the show. The first one was Raquel welsh Able People, the second one was a fellow who was dealing with
the bermuted a triangle, and mine was the third. And that was the highest rating that Haraldo ever got, was the Zappruter film segment, and he repeated it again and that got even more so. The film itself is what got the case open, and that's a whole story, which I'll tell you in a little while. That's certainly part of the story.
And it's remarkable in that up to that point, right outside of it being shown in the courtroom in New Orleans, right because District Attorney Jim Garrison had the pointed the film and it was shown, you know there, and it had been seen in still versions. There was the still version that was printed in the warrant commission. These black and white frames in in one of the volumes, so you could actually look at the frames in black and
white form. Really not that clear, uh, but clearer than anything that you know was out there, because there wasn't anything out there.
Uh.
And then after that even there was bootleg versions that traveled around, went to universities. But these things were terrible. I mean I had my hands on one of those at one point, and uh, I mean there was a lot of whites involved in it. Seemed like a lot of missing elements. Other people talking about the muddy elements of it. I remember it looking at it, seeing it as almost transparent. When I actually held this thing and
looked at the frames, it was like nothing. It was like a bad photocopy of a bad photocopy of a bad photocopy. But nonetheless it allowed people to see the film a bit, and a few of those bootleg copies traveled around in the late sixties and all the way up until you put a very good version up on Good Night America.
Is that not true, Well, yeah, that's very true. What happened was when Jim Garrison subpoena the Zupporter film for showing in the courtroom during the quay Shaw trial. What they had was one that was purposely degraded. You could see the images, but you couldn't make out any detail. It was like visual mud. A copy was made of what he had and was bootlegged, which went around the country for years and years. But it was horrible. It's horrible.
The copy that I showed at at the Boston conference was almost pristine, but it could have been better than it was. What happened was that Araldo's people wanted to slow it down so that they could so that I could comprehend what it was seeing, and I offered to make them a slowed down version of it. They didn't want to bother whether they want to take the time, So it would have been a lot clearer if they'd have shown what I would have given him to him
to do. But you know it did. The job got out there, and all in all, it did change the history of the case. That's what got the case for you.
Well, and that's the other thing.
And I brought this up last night actually during a discussion where I said, look, you got to remember that they are often various events that come together to create a circumstance where something gets done. I talked about the ar RB and everybody points to the Oliver Stone film. Oh, by the way, Bob makes an appearance in JFK the movie, just saying he is in there briefly if you know where to find him, and I do. I'm not going
to give it to you guys who knows. Maybe we'll use it as a trivia question and give something away around the time of the conference had head anyhow.
But here's the deal.
Yeah, you're showing the film, Okay, A general outcry from the public based on other congressional investigations, the Citizens Committee, these things came together to cause enough of a ruckus that we end up with the House Select Committee. In my mind, and you need all of those elements to come together, okay. And in the nineties, not just the Oliver Stone film, but the long standing campaign of release the files was definitely a pressure campaign that was going on.
And I was living in New Jersey at the time, so I was very familiar with a guy named Bill Kelly and a few others who were actively involved in that. But there were people nationally and here comes Roaldo again in that case too. By the way, he had various people out there that were advocating for release the files. But it took that pressure, the public's outcry from the JFK film and a few other things to snowball. It's usually not just the one event, no matter what people
point to. So I would say Bob that in effect, you even had a resonant effect in creating the HSCA in the first place, which you ended up then participating.
Well, you hit the nail on the head. That's exactly what happened. When I show the film one good Night in America, a lot of people saw it for the first time. And what happened is a lot of people from Congress saw it, specifically the Virginia Congressional delegation. They contacted me, specifically Congressman Thomas Downing in Virginia, and he asked me to come to Washington to the House of
Representatives and show my addit. It's not just the Zabruta film the zu Brut film, and they fell a much more film and a few others as well, and my entire slide presentation which took about two hours, and I showed him to that as representatives in to my absolute amazement, Constant Downing introduced legislation to reopen the case. It took a long time to think, about two years to do it, but eventually it did get open, and there was a
second investigation, first being the Warrant Commission. The House House of Committed Assassinations went into far more detail. A Congressmant Downey had me. He asked me if I would be the typical consultant for the fully graphic Heavin was puty committee and it was critic full lifetime to do a lot of work. And the showing of this film A Good Night of America made more change to the issues of the assassination than anything else. I'm very very proud of.
That, right.
But again now look full credit to you, of course for participating in that. But I would say also the fact that there were other congressional investigations which were showing that, you know what, the US government might have been lying to us about a few things or hiding stuff you know, in various cases we had Watergate previous to this. I mean there is a general mood that started to come up that laid the groundwork for you to be able
to come forward. So all of these things come together, and to my mind, you have to recognize that all of them participate in this. Now, I'm putting this aside, even though this in and of itself is worthy of discussion and coverage for the whole show. We could do two three hours on just this and not cover everything. But I need to get to something else here. I mean, you participated in this historical well historical influence, a campaign of influence which you were part of a big part of.
And it does center on the Zubruder film.
And we could talk about, you know, Abraham Subruter, the dress manufacturer, and how the film came. But let's put that aside for now. In the future, I'd love to do a very basic let's get the one oh one on this, Bob and talk about it. I would love to do that, but not tonight. And here's why a great many people are out there stating that this film is not legitimate, Bob. They will say that it's not a legitimate piece of evidence.
In fact, there are people out there that say it's been fabricated.
Now, I have said in the past that I see that the film has been altered at different times. In other words, there was damage to it, There were missing frames, there were things like that.
That went on.
And also, if you see a version of the film where it is kind of stable and you're able to follow it because it appears very steady, that's generally a version that came from you, Bob. You're the guy who stabilized it. In my mind, I think you're first, and the best stabilization.
Came from you. So if you see an unstable version of that.
Film where it does move around quite a bit more, you're looking at something that came from a version before you stabilized it, or most likely.
But so I can say that it's been altered in that way.
But there are people out there that take it a lot further and they say it's been manufactured. Things have been added, things have been taken away, They took out frames, there was a full stop of the limousine, all this stuff.
Now, I don't want you to answer the.
Specific charges necessarily, Bob, not at all, because again they have a list longer than my arm. Of those, you know, complaints and allegations about how the film is not legitimate.
Uh, they explained to you why that happened. Okay, that'll that'll read it. There were two assassinations in quotes researchers who came up with this idea the Zip film is fake. Why because they have specific theories. The Zapprui film disproved their theories, so they attacked it. And as time went by, four and more people got involved with the concept. Though it's fate, it's fate, it's been altered, it has not been Let me explain the only damage to the film.
The only thing that is if you consider retouching, is that there are two points in the film where there are missing frames. And the first, the first splice, takes place where there are two frames missing and two more damaged. The second one there are four frames missing and two frames damaged. They are no longer missing. They call them missing frames. But you have we had that book and in this let me take a minute to find it, and this I actually publish all the missing frames. They
are no longer missing. These are the two splices right here, this splice here was being famous by Josiah Thompson in his book Six Seconds in Dallas. But that's because the very obvious one you can see the other one here. The splice is hidden within the shrubbery here and it's difficult to see. I'm the one who found this first splice.
It was never advertised that it was there. And when I was working on the film earlier on, I had the original film in my hand, the actual camera original and as I was running it through my hand like this, I felt displice, the physical splice in my hand, and that's why I discovered it. Now everybody knows about it,
but those are the only alterations to the film. Life magazine said that the junior lab technician did it by mistake when he was running down and making four by five transparency copies, that he accidentally closed something down on the film and tour it well. I find timicult to believe in the bay quarter of a million dollars for a twenty one second film and put in the hands of somebody who didn't know what they were doing, and they never released the name of the man who did it.
But the point is this, there are specific issues that have to be faked. For some of the theories that other people have come up with, and it just got carried away. The Kennedy assassination is the biggest conspiracy in the history of the world. That's not enough for some people. They have to add additional co conspiracies along with it. And they're just enjoy the fact that they're saying that this Zubruta film was faked. Zubruta film is the single
most important piece of evidence in the entire case. When they attack it, they're attacking the single most important thing that we've got, and the defenders of the Warring Commission must be laughing, then tushies off, because that film is legitimate. We can prove that, we can prove it, and I'm going to go into all those things for you today.
Well, let me ask you this about.
These specific theories really fast, because I know what one of them is right off the bat, and that is the limo stopping issue, right that's got to be it. That's got to be one of them, because they claim that frames had to be removed. Now, I don't even want to address that one.
Usually because it is illogical.
Okay, if you remove frames from a film like they claim, well, they must have removed a bunch of frames. It speeds up the film, It makes things go even faster, to a degree that I think these people don't understand what happens if you were to do something like that. And this idea that they have to force in this limo stop is because of eyewitnesses. Now I realize why the eyewitnesses are saying what they're saying. I understand it. And it does have to do with the malleable nature of memory.
And I mean even the fact that Bill Newman was so close to the assassination, and for about twenty five years, the man stated that he thought Kennedy literally stood up in his seat, okay.
And.
Zero was shot up, yeah, and that his ear was shot yeah right, And you know this didn't happen.
And he didn't realize that until he viewed the Zapruder film in the nineteen eighties, which was kind of crazy. He hadn't seen it on Araldo's Show with You, He hadn't seen it previously. And he was still stating at that time in the nineteen eighties. You know, over twenty years later he stood up in his seat. Now, that's not what he saw, that's what he interpreted and there was a problem. Other people did the same thing with this limo stop Bob and yeah.
Things as you bring up an extremely important point at this stage, and that is the car did not stop. It didn't. This is a drawing of the entire motorcade, well not most of it anyway. There's the President's car right here, and people that are right behind it are in line with it. The President's driver, Mill Greer, put his foot on the brakes and slowed down. He was stopping,
but he didn't stop. And as he did that, people from behind that were behind saw the lights come on, and other the cars in the back actually did stop. The car from the president did not. When they saw the cars slowed down and their cars stop, and they had seen the brake lights come on in the President's car, and they assumed that they all had stopped exactly.
And that's the thing about the assumption because memory, look, information is constantly added to memory.
It's not a recording device.
So what happened is they saw these other cars stop and because of that, that gave them the idea that they all stopped. Indeed, like you said, Greer hit his and you can see in the film, by the way, in the Suppruiter film, you can see that the light comes on and he's tapping his break Okay.
Now I've observed that I don't have the greatest vision.
But if you take a little bit of time and study and look at the individual frames, a lot of them provided by Bob Groden, outside of the fact that again in the Warren Commission volumes they misprinted, they actually put one out of order in there, and all this other stuff.
But they give you black and whites there. I'm told, even in.
Those, you know, kind of bad black and white versions, you can see this break light. Okay, I know I can see it in Bob Groden's version. I know I can see it in many stills, and I have all the frames in various forms digitally. But the thing is, this is what the problem is. He almost stops. He does come to us slowing down because there's a bit of confusion, and other cars in the motorcade did indeed come to a complete stop.
So some of the people who keep spreading this crap about the Zubrutter film being faked, they have two or three points of view that they bring up. One is it so many people said that the car stopped this is a lie. People said it was stop being only two people said it actually stopped, and they were not really in a position to really tell, so they held all that. They bring up all the time. The film's got to be fake because it doesn't show the car
is stopping. The Zipbrut film, the nixt film, the much More film, the Bronze film, all of them show the car during the moment of the headshot. All of this stuff. The car never stops. And by the way, the people who say the film is faked and they cut out sections, they're saying it because it backs their theories. If the car had stopped for the two minutes I'm sorry, two
seconds that they're saying, the thirty seven frames. If you didn't out thirty seven frames, everybody who's in the proground, in the background, whatever, within the car, if you stop the car keeps moving, it would jump. The people would jump. Because the film is eighteen frames per second. If you cut out thirty seven frames, that's two seconds it would jump. People are moving around the people within the car. It's ridiculous.
A full second.
Even if you're route one full second, Bob, you have people that are going to reach up and scratch their neck. You have people that are reaching into their pockets, people that are waving, and all of that stuff would jump all over the place. And what is their answer, Well, they took the crowd out separately and pasted it back in. I mean, my point about this is actually that the further you go down that rabbit hole, the more elaborate the solution has to become. You have to remove the crowd,
paste it in separately. They say, Look, see the crowd doesn't even really move. They say, because it's been pasted in artificially and all these different things. But it just doesn't make logical sense. You'd have to reconstruct this thing in hole in order to get that effect. It's not a matter of removing frames. And indeed, if I were trying to create a slowing effect or a stopping effect for the car, I don't know, Bob, I would.
Think you would want to add frames in.
I'm just saying some One of the points is that they don't even tell you where they think it was done. They say it was done, I can't find it. You can see it if anywhere within the film.
So let's move on.
YEA. One other things that's saying the other major thing you're saying is that they say the film was cut because you can't see the prison's car come on to Elm Street from Houston up in this area right here, right now. The thing is this Abraham's recruiter's camera like this. It's a manually held camera. It's not like a video thing whereby it's constantly going because it's battery operated. There's a Fruiter camera just like this. In order to run it, you have to wind it up. You have to use
the crank here to wind it up. And as you do that and you want a film, you hit the shutter release there you go, and then one down as it winds down and they snorre. You can hear the difference as it slows down. So cruiter had been filming for quite a bit before the person even got there. So the camera either stopped or was stopping, and he knew it, and he started to wind up. He took it away from his eye and started whinding it while it was down and he wasn't filming. That's when the
car made the turn onto Elm Street. He saw that the car was there. Excuse me, They put it back up to the camera back up to his eye and started filming again byself. If he'd have kept filming the lead motorcycles and just had done the original beginning parts of this, since he didn't know where the motorcade the president's car was, he'd have missed the assassination completely.
Well, there's that to consider, but it's also remember this for the listener, not for you, Bob. You know this, but it's a spring that we're talking about. There's a spring mechanism here. So there's a physical mechanism that winds down and actually, you know, over time, a lot of them become a bit inconsistent.
Now that that.
Particular camera maintained for a while, but eventually they become a little inconsistent. So for the concern that it may wind down one and two, the film was not very long.
They didn't have an hour of tape here, you know, an hour of film inside of Yeah, so there was only a short amount.
So he was trying to make sure that he actually captured again, not looking to capture the assassination because who knew that was going to happen.
But again that's another argument people make. We're not going there.
But if you don't know the assassination's happening, but you want to capture the president on film, He's not here yet.
Let me wind it back up, make sure I'm ready, and here we go.
So he was waiting to make sure so that the president would be in his field of vision, and when he was, it starts again, which is why the president suddenly appears in the film.
Just that simple Okay, you're right, but yeah, go ahead, continue on though, please.
There's a whole bunch of other things too, a lot of the stuff that Janet I have been working with and Jene discovered all this chat is my wonderful wife. By the way, this is a way of showing. Eight millimeter film is like this. When it's shot within a camera such as the Bruders, it's actually sixteen millimeters wide. It's called double eight. You shoot one side, you turn the film over and then you shoot the other side, so it's sixteen millimeters. Why okay, why is this important?
Because if other named Adino Rugio only who worked for n Pick, a national photographic interpretation company, he had to when when they say when he said it brought the original Zapruter film to him that night for analysis. He had to go out and buy a eight millimeter projector to show it is this important the Napruiter film itself, the original film, which was in fact double eighth. I find it here. Well here it is coming out of a camera that's really looks like it's sixteen millimeters wide
and gets slip when it's processed. Okay, right, Agel film itself would look like this, and it could not be this is it. This is actually from a copy of this bird film that was made before the film was slit right now, that is this whole movie stuff on the side. This is the assassination right now.
This shows you Just to help you out with this, Bob here just for the listener's edification. Look, it's real simple. It runs sixteen millimeters all together, but only exposes half of that sixteen millimeters while that's being recorded. It goes from one spool to another, and when that happens, it runs all the way out. You take the now newly filled spool and reverse position with the now empty spool in the camera, which when you turn it over means now you're going to expose the other half of the
sixteen millimeter film coming back through. Now, Bob just showed you visually what that looks like. Okay, but just in your mind think about this. So it is essentially way to record over the same sixteen millimeters twice, but you're only using half of the film half the first time, flip it over half the second time. Therefore you have one image kind of facing you know, in its proper orientation upward, and then you have another image and its
other orientation facing downward. That is the way it would look if it was an unslit copy. And this is the way the film gets printed. They print it in sixteen millimeter form, and there it is. It's both of them together, which you can run through, to my understanding, you can run through certain projectors, but it looks terrible because you have this confusing double sided thing going on.
But then what they do is they slit it in half, leaving only one side of sprockets, and then you take it and flip over the other piece and literally tape it together, so that.
Now you have doubled the length of the film.
That's the thing to keep in mind here that Bob just discot I'm trying to feel in a little more because sometimes people get lost on these explanations.
Bob I mean, it's a simple thing.
I understand that. I'm trying to that. That's the first half of the explanation. Why is it important Bruno, I'm sorry, Dino Brgioni, who worked and did a lot of this stuff. Right after the assassination, he was brought a film. They told him it was the original film. Well, the problem is he didn't have an eight millimeter projector until the film was slit. It was still sixteen no meters wide, and there's absolutely no one in the world that you get projected through like so there's no way you get
projected through an eight milimeter projectors. Too wide film wouldn't fit into the projector. So he went out, he bought a projector and he showed eight meter film. The big problem that the people who say the film was fake have is a the fact that the original film sixteen millimeters wide, wasn't slit until the following week. So when Brugi only said he was dealing with the original one, he was only saying it because that's what they told
him it was. It could not have been. When the film was in Dallas, Kodak processed another lad printed three copies of it. Those three copies were slit right away that day. The original film was not. Brugi only could not have projected the original film. So the issue that the fakers, the faker of backers are pushing is that since the film that Brugi only thought was the original doesn't show the car making the turn or the car stopping,
it had to be a fake. It wasn't. This is very important to me because I took tremendous chance releasing the film in the first place. If I hadn't done it, no one would have seen it. I was very fortunate to be able to get away with doing it. The Live magazine in their first issue, their memorial edition like that, they published black and white frames of superior films, selected frames. Where did those come from? From? The eight millimeter original that had not yet been slit? And that was done
in Chicago, but again not till the following week. And this it became very technical and it's really involved with if I ever do another book, and we go to much more detail about this. But when I've written, I've written eight books on the assassination. In those eight books, no one had ever brought up the concept of the film being faked. Because it's ridiculous. It could not. Then there are other issues too. An original film in the
camera is what they call be wind. Now, what the b y means is that if you hold up the film and you see it, you're looking through the base of the film because the emotion would be facing the light source. Okay, so you're looking at it as be wind. There's a bruder film. Original is be wind. If you make a copy of it, it goes emotion to emotion and then it becomes a why it reads backwards to
the other side of the film. So there's lots of reasons such as this that showed the film is legitimate and when a lot of the issues too that that they're saying, which I'm going into too much detail with, is that this is a prude film. This is from myka, it's Christine, it's in beautiful shape. It's that's nice copy. The defenders of the or or the feel that that go after the film that attack it, they're dealing with
something that's absolute visual mud too. It's it's it's as blood, if not worse than the so that the yeah that the Garrison had it's not very clear and it's junk. What they're saying, is that they see a hole hand painted in in the baculum. Prison said, well, they're not.
Well, that was the That was the next thing. I was going to confront you with, Bob, and I want you to attack this.
Uh.
They have this whole theory about the black spot on the back of the head where they say it's been literally and it does look strange in some prints. I got to be honest with you, it does look strange. But do I think it's been faked?
No, But I don't know how to explain why this happened or you know that there's a lot of interesting anomalies that come up, by the way.
In film, especially in this process.
There's a lot of things that can occur with light, with exposure, with the camera, with the lenses, et cetera, et cetera.
But it does look weird.
The back of JFK's head at a certain point looks so solid that it does appear almost like somebody colored it in, And a lot of them point to that, Bob, is there something easy you can give us to knock that down.
Yes, my Mark, Jenet and I weren't in the museum in Indiana, and they had a piece of hard work. That's what it looked like. I'm I'm going to look at this. This a damn. This is the area that would be considered the prison's hair on a Zibruter film. And this is the hole in the back of his head. If you do Densitomoy readings on this as opposed to this, it's going to be different. That's what you would expect. Mention when you see, right, that's the answer. Now you
have JFK absolute proof there. Yes, there are specific frames of the Zaprui film Fames three thirty five and three thirty seven, the two clear frames, the only clear frames on the back of the prisident's head after the headshut. Okay, this is a blow up of frame three thirty seven. Missus Kennedy is looking right at the exitum of the Act of the President said in three five and three thirty seven. The uh that is in profile and you see the evlsteria that was described by all the doctors.
Now one thing I'm watching to be pleased be aware of. I know you are, but anyone who's watching they should know. I'm not saying that Oswald acted alone. I'm saying it was a conspiracy. Oswald, based on the evidence, had nothing to do with it. I'm on the same side as the people who are saying the film is big fakes, but they're doing it wrong, and they're taking the evidence that proves that we're right and just ignoring it. And
that's absolutely dangerous. It's thing with this, I just get away with it.
And that's the thing. They're literally undermining one of the most important pieces. And we can draw a lot.
I mean, if you see a good copy of this, and I don't mean you, Bob, because you've seen the best versions of this film.
But the truth is, if you see this very.
Closely, carefully and you're able to view it in its best form, I can literally see blood splash on Jackie Kennedy's face.
I can see her react and flinch to it.
Okay, and this is not the best possible filming that was done, But when you look at the best possible copy of this, you can see a lot of details, the reflections of things in the hood of not the hood in the body, in the paint of the car. You can see things on the rear trunk of the car that are reflections. Okay, there's a lot of detail that can be seen if you see a good copy of.
This Jackie Jackie climbs out on the trunk of a car and piece of a piece of the skull, right, you can really see and once again, you know, copies that I have are made directly from the original and they're flawless, just flaws. The stuff that they're looking at is like multi generation exactly. There's a technique call they call it four K, which means it deals with the
amount of resolution within a frame. They got a garbage copy of the film, and they had a four K copy of garbage and that's what they're dealing with, and it's it's ridiculous. I have when we spoke before about my my d d ds, before we started doing all this. These are two DVDs which I have. This one is a full documentary on the Kennedy case. It has the highlights of all the films, has explusive interviews from the Dallas doctors and things of that nature. This one has
intact versions of all the films and the assassinations. In fact, the total of one hundred and twenty two between the Moti Kaid and the assassination and the investigation. These are cooler copies than anyone else's got, and they're available and tremendous.
Let me say something about that. Before you're done talking about that they are available. I want you to tell people where to get them, but I'm going to tell people why to get them.
And here's the thing.
It's not just that the headshot and the events of the murder are memorialized in the Subruder film. You can see this in the Knicks film. You can see this in the much More film. And now there's also a couple of others in there that people often do not mention. The Bell film, for instance, shows the headshot. A lot of people never mentioned that, and I know why. Look, it's very very hard, even with you enhancing the Bell film, it's very hard hard to make out things on it
because of the way he shot the film. And there's yet another film on there that that shows the headshot.
And which one is that?
Bob, Well, the next film shows it, right, Nix much More Side of the Street.
Oh jeez, yeah, no problem at all. I'll just continue on with what I was saying.
Know what happened with my my my my phone went off of my year m sorry, oh no, no problem. You. Okay, all right, there's a lot of the next film. We'll talk about that too, But well, there's a lot of things that showed the supporter film is genuine. Right, they're saying that that it's been fake. And the reason why the uh, the reason why the uh, the film had to be spliced at the point where the where they can't begin after the turn. Well, there is something that
happens in film that doesn't happen in videotape. That's called flash frame. You had mentioned before that there's a spring tension on the Zubruiter camera when you start filming. It takes a fraction of a second to get up to running speed. So the first frame is given more light and it includes it's called a flash frame. This is a section of the A side and A side of the Zapruter film. This is the regular exposure. This is the first frame. You see how much brighter it is.
And that's because it actually travels through the gate slightly slower, therefore has a greater amount of exposure to light.
Is that correct?
There you go. So the point of the matter is that same type of flash frame occurs at the first frame when the car comes into view. There's just one more piece of evidence that's genuine, it's legitimate. There is when you see the Zuppruter film the way I presented within the book, you're getting to see more detail.
Yeah, there's more detail.
And right, Ray, Ray Ray, let me call you. I'm doing a radio show.
Right now live. This is what happens when we record live, folks.
I'll go right back a little while, Okay, I thank you, thank you, all right.
No problem, Bob, go ahead, continue. Sorry, I forget where I even was.
Well, you were explaining after the flash frame, right that that's present, and then you were going to explain something else after that. The legitimacy passed the flash frame, which is shown right after the turn, which reveals to you that this was obviously the start of the film once again with the spring and.
All of that.
So you would not have the flash frame if in fact it had been edited to duplicate with it Veray cut out there. The flash frame is the key. Most people don't even know the flash frames even exist. But I've been in the emotion picture industry doing this kind of stuff for thirty five forty years now, and I know what to look for. The point of the matter is that I can't explain the emotional reasons why people really have to attack the film. There's only actually about
a half a dozen of them. But we've we've got one one character who's assisting the film is faked, who says he knows it's faked because you only see one Secret Service agent jump on the back of the car on the truck. There only was one right u Hill. This guy for some reason believes that there were two of them back there, and they edited it out to cut the other off the truck of the car. Why
only Heaven knows. If you're going to fake the film, and you can see this very clearly in the book, you're going to cut out any part of the film that challenges the official fiction. If you're even do it, you're going to cut out the frames that show the back of the head. At three thirty five and three thirty seven, the doctors all said that the head wound in the back of the prison, said was a lost outwards who was just the skull was out. They part it looked like a volcano. You see that and the
Zapruda film, they would have cut those things out. They cut out the fact that the president was thrown to the rear when he was hitting the head, showing that the shot came from the front. They don't. It's right there, all right. Why would we leave that in? It cuts something else out. You can ask the defenders of the film if they know what they're doing I'm talking about, they'll back it all the way. For the people who attack it, the one question you can ask is Quibono,
who profits? Won't do it? There's no value to it.
The only Devil's Advocate issue I can give you, and I can give it to you and then knock it right down, Bob without a problem is that some people might say it was specifically done to add confusion, to make sure that okay, you don't have the official story, but also the real story of the conspiracy is hidden this way too, and therefore you have a document which
does not support any story properly. And then I say, well, look, there's a couple of problems here, and one of them is you'd also have to fake a polaroid.
That kind of goes along with.
It, because you know, there was this lady there that was using a polaroid camera, and I got to tell you, polaroids are probably the last thing that anybody who works with photographs ever wants to work with photographically because they're horrible. You know, you literally have chemical spray all over the damn thing. I mean, they're nice for what their purpose was, you know, in the time that they were popular and all that, for home use.
But to try and do something with that, to try and alter it, oh my goodness.
I mean, I don't even want to think about the kind of project it would take to alter that.
And I'm talking about Mary Mormon's photo. Those are polaroids originally.
So Mary and Mormon is a very close friend of both of us, of Jan and myself, and I've had in my hands when I worked for the ass Assassin's Committee two of the three pictures she took on Elm Street. The third one was given to a police officer who destroyed it and it showed a six foot window with
nobody in it. Okay, anyway, I have a copy in the book that shows Mary Mormon's picture taken from a first day copy negative done at Channel FAA, the Channel TV channel in Dallas, and it shows very clearly the home on the back of the head that the people, the people who were attacking the film just ignore right.
Well, and that to me is the key, because you would again have to work with that. Okay, look, if.
You take a look at what's out there on the internet, sure it's inconclusive, but that's because of the nature.
Of the copy of being a copy, being a copy being a.
Copy, and then the digital process which makes them of it even further. So you can't use that all right, Fine, what about the other films that corroborate the Zapruder film. Some of these guys even get into an explanation where those have been altered too, and that is just the level of insanity. I can't match up. So let's knock it all down. You can't possibly have accomplished this, in my mind, as fast as they did broadcast the much
More film shortly after the assassination. That was broadcast. Okay, that was one of the few things that actually made it to broadcast, So that went out there. We know it's been memorialized. Come on, now, they made the much More film match up to this right away. I thought it took all the way through the weekend with all these stories to get it all done, right, So you've got a problem here. Anyway, The point is. I mean, I think those are the key points that people go to.
You know, well, what you don't believe the CIA.
Would do this?
Absolutely, I do. Could they have do we have evidence?
You know? But they did?
Right.
I just realized what I was talking about before on the phone running this particular it's called screwball. The person who attacks the film okay, uh says he can tell his face because the cigaret service guard Roy Killiman, is sitting next to the driver. He jumps out of the car, but it doesn't show it. He sit in the car all the way to the hospital. He never left. This guy comes up with stuff out of his you know what. Yeah, and Uh not only can get into names any of
these people, because it's just crazy. Some of these people believe the garbage that they're saying. Other people know that they're lying. It's hard to tell sometimes which is which. But some people have pretty good credentials in other areas. But do you know what the f stop is?
I would love for you to explain it best. I read about it, and you know, I have a basic idea, but I would love for you to explain it because you bring it up on almost every interview.
I love it.
You always say, you know, they don't know an F stop from a bus stop. That's one of your favorite phrases.
But just grab my line.
I grabbed your line. But can you explain it to people though, because I have had that question, ask to me what is in F stop?
So please let me explain to you that a friend of mine said, nobody knows photography. I only know it was video table blah. But so the F stop is the size of the aperture that allows more or less light in to the raw stock or unexposed negative. You mentioned it. I'll mention myself too. The people who are attacking this's a Bruta film don't know and have stopped from a bus stop. And it's absolutely absolutely key to
know that. People have claimed that they all I've been in the film business for twenty years doing what working in the office, filling out paperwork. You know, they don't know the techniques, They don't know what to look for. One thing that I nearly forgot to mention is in
there's a Bruder film, there's a Bruti film itself. The camera original has information in the picture area and on the left hand side it's got pictures between this rocket holes, yes, which are not within the so called regular picture area. The original film has that information between this rocket holes. All the jubigates do not. The one that grew Brunoni and Brugioni and the others have dealt with did not have the information between the projects right, and therefore they
were not working with the original film. There's there's that simple.
Right now.
Just to explain this again to somebody who might not understand the sprocketal, what happens here is that there is a kind of a an imperfection here where light is being exposed onto a part of the film that's not meant to capture image. It's there to be you know what it is the sprockets, right, The crockets are supposed to grab it and carry it through the projector or carry it through the camera as it's being run through. And that's not an area that's meant to capture image.
But the thing is it's a little bit of skew somehow.
And therefore it's getting exposed that's not supposed to happen. And you'll find variations in this because people have taken other versions like they they've taken basically Suppruters camera, but not Supruters camera one just like it, and you'll get different exposures in those Sprocket holes, sometimes right where it doesn't go all the way over, it goes only a little bit over, or not at all, and things like that.
So, yeah, these these are the Sprocket holes I'm waiting too, right, those are the things. There's a clause that goes to the camera and then to the projector that stabilizes and holds the film in the right position that's on the
original on Subruters camera. Doesn't happen in all cameras, but happened on is when it's actually image being captured on the film between there, right and again, I have to waste so much time dealing with why we know the film is real and why it's not, and why it's important is because it shows what actually did happen and what they're trying to say. People who attack the film
say it doesn't show it actually happened. It shows on the thing right, as you mentioned before, if they were to cut out the two seconds that they're talking about, everybody in the car would jump from point A to point B right as the president would be going from this to this in one frame instead of a series of frames.
Exactly when you remove frames in between, you know, movements, you're going to have what appears to be super fast movements. You know that used to be something they did as a special effect in a very basic way for films where you were creating an image where somebody you know moved, they were able to run, you know, twenty feet in less than a second.
How could you do that?
You could remove a bunch of frames and in less than a second they are twenty feet in another direction.
No problem. That's the type of effect you would get by removing frames.
And that's what you have to remember here. I mean, I'm really explaining this in the layman's way, best way. I know that you know all the technical things and you actually understand film, which again is a whole different thing from what we see in video and digital.
Versions, et cetera.
So absolutely right, all of this having been said, Bob, is this does this cover the main keys you think for what people should know regarding this Zebruder film fakery idea?
Or is there one more thing?
Or should we be looking to you in Dallas for a presentation, because my understanding is this might come up during your presentation in Dallas.
Will you know again you bring that up, That's an important point. Two. There are a whole bunch of other issues that we can be spending time dealing with, and we don't get to even talk about those who have to spend so much time dealing with this craziness that comes up on in the minds of people that really don't know what they're talking about exactly. That all these people are already they have taken technical issues that they're they're familiar with in other areas that don't deal with
the mechanics of the film. There's a brutor film is, which is that absolutely, there's no question about it. You couldn't fake it. Do what you did. There's a there's an issue called jump cut, which is if you had this guy here and somebody else over there that looked like him, you could eliminate the frames in between and spice one to the other and get a jump cut. That does not occur in the film at all. There's nobody like that. There aren't that many people on the
far side of the street. One of the researchers who came up with the idea of the film is faked shows that all the people standing in the crowd on the north side of Elm Street are all cardboard cutouts. Really one of the people who are really there? Where are they again? The Supreme film, the Knicks film, the much More film, and the Bronson film. We have those four. The fifth one of the Oliver film, who was taken by the FBI, We've never seen it. I've released all
the others. I've released one hundred and twenty two films of the assassination, the motorcade and follow up the investigation. I even released shouldn't get into this, but I'm even released in absolute proof the autopsy photographs of the President, which are not yet released officially won't be these is supposed to be released in twenty thirty nine. How we don't think there were be released even then.
Yeah, good good luck on that.
As we watched the cane kicked down the road. Even with the assassination records review board, I am not holding my breath for that release date. I wanted to just touch on one other thing, you know, I'd love to spend time talking about a lot of things with you, Bob that we did not touch upon tonight.
And I'm just going to bring up one of them, which.
Is a great feature and Absolute Proof there was a role of film apparently taken where we now for the first time see some images that had never been seen by anyone before as far as I know, of a surgical theater and someone being operated.
On in that book. And you got it off of a role of film that had not been developed for many, many years.
And indeed you had a hard time even pulling images out in the first place.
But you've actually created a set of.
Images in this book that I would love to spend a full show discussing with you what is it we see in here? What's going on? Maybe you could get people a hint. And another good reason why this it's an expensive book. But it's expensive because it's very expensive to print high quality copies of photographs, my friends, And that's what you have is high quality photographs throughout this book. And you know, Bob will tell you how many. And of course he's got the other two big books which
released plenty of photos before this. But this is one of the very unique things in the book, Absolute Proof. Would you mind just telling people what that is or a little bit about it?
The killia of President and the search for le Harvey Oswald and before that kind of trees and then the k I've written eight books on the case. Absolute Proof is the only one that's still really available. I was the first non authorized person initially to see this approver. I'm sorry. The ontopsy photographs I've seen and handheld the originals in the National Art gives the originally one hundred and fifty two pictures. There's only fifteen of them left.
I published them all in the book. There's one photograph that's not supposed to exist. I think this is what you're talking about. It's a black and white. The size of film is called one's one piece of film, and there's a series of images on that. They're all pretty much the same image, but they start under exposed, instead of getting brighter and brighter, to get worse and worse until you can't even see anything. There is not any inventory in the archives or in the warr commissioner anything
like that that explains these pictures. They show the president from about mid thigh up to over the top of his head, and we're looking at him from the left side, and he's lying on the table. This is supposed to be something which doesn't even get explained. There are a lot of pictures that are missing, but this is the only thing that's not supposed to exist, which does I have no way of explaining how or why. But I publish all the pictures that I could, including the autopsy pictures.
I felt it was important to see it because when you see the condition of the prisons said and compare it to what the government said, completely different.
Absolutely.
Two situations, one for the Warring Commission, one for the House Assassinations Committee, where they had artists drough the drawings of the presidents. The first was done for the Warring Commission by Philliam Skipper Roberg, and mister Roberg was not allowed to see the prison's body, was not allowed to see the autopsy photographs. They just told one to put there. The second was for the House Assassinations too many. They hired an artist. Her name was I to docs Maloney,
the official name she uses professionals justide docks. Janet came across a saying she she she left something uh in a report tweety. When she was asked about the drawings, she said that she made the drawings to illustrate the conclusions of the medical panel, not what they actually showed. You need to repeat that. Yeah, but I can't do it as well as you just did. Did we able to hear that, chuck?
Oh no, I heard it. Yes, absolutely, the conclusions of the medical panel not frustrated. Yeah, that's what was illustrated.
Yes, she did what they told her to do. And there was another thing too, during one of the meetings that was going on, where Michael Boden, who was the head of the medical panel, said to her, Ida, you can do better than this. You didn't like the fact. Now in my book, which you've seen, showing the pictures of the back of the prison's body, right, there are two holes in his back. The House committee never once mentioned that, but sure to hear.
Well.
It's funny because in the docs images, what we have here is a bunch of missing information. It does look to me like she must have seen the photos, but clearly she left out tons of information. And the funny part to me is that these people, some of them claim to be you know, photographic acts words, don't realize that they're looking at a drawing at number one and number two make statements like look at how much more cleaned up he is in these in these images, and
it's very funny. It's not just cleaned up, it's literally redacted by her drawing. But you're showing us something different in the back. And then I have something else to show you.
But go ahead. This is the president his back right. The Warrick Commission said that the entrance hole of the bullet was in the back of the President's neck. Who pushed this, Gerald Ford? Yes, but he did it to clarify the image. There is no hole in the back of the president's neck, none at all. There are two holes in his back, the entrance wound from the depository or somewhere from behind, and the ais of wound from
the throat wound, right next to each other. This one here, the larger of them, which is too large to be a carcano bullet hole it the front and his bank just below that is the engine would with a uh oh, hey what they call it a abrasion collar. That's it, thank you, you can rememh And they spoke for me, no problem, I'll help you.
Uh.
The second one, what the House Committee did is that EI dogs draw the bank, eliminating the engine would but showing the agent would name calling it the entrance.
Woold right, yeah, no, it was amazing what was done there.
Uh And and the thing is, look, I've had I had a decent copy, and I wish I still had them, But I lost my copy of the what I would call the fox set, which which was made from a very good copy at the time. I could see a lot of detail in those that I've never seen anywhere.
At no offense to you, even Bob, but even in your book, I had a very good copy that was better than even what I see in your book at one time, because it was allegedly made from there was a contact a negative made at one point, and mine was made from that negative. Initially, you know, when those photos started to circulate, they were just photos, and then
someone created a negative. Well, that negative supposedly generated my copy, and I had eight x tens and I was very proud of that copy, but my ex wife didn't allow me to keep them anyway.
But there was a lot of detail in those photos. What's that.
Well I would love to have if there's some way, I mean, look, I don't know what it would cost you or whatever, but if there's a way I could acquire another set of those, Believe me, I'd love to have them.
Fox pictures were taken and they were black and white, yes, and they were taken by an FBI agent named Fox, and that's where they came from. White and white, mind and color.
Yeah.
But my but my set, Yeah, my set still contained a lot of information though about I loved that set. Anyways, I want to show you what it was I was going to ask you about, which wasn't that photo. But these images you see where we have doctors in Yes, you see what I'm talking about now. And I'm probably a little out of focus here, but I assure you, guys, if you get the book, this is one of the things that right there is why you need to get this book.
This is just two of the pages.
There's multiple pages of this, and there's doctors appearing to you get ready for surgery here.
Yes, indeed, those pictures were taken of Lee Harvey Oswald on the operating table when they're trying to save his life. This is after he shot, before he died. The last pictures of him in life are taken their life of him being alive, right, and the first shots of them when he died. And the thing that nobody even knew they even existed, and I came across them some years ago. The films had not even been processed yet, they hadn't
even been developed. I took them to the only place in the world it's still processed that type of film, and we gone processed. And the thing is they were damaged. It's was like more than a dozen years after they were taken, and they had been heat damaged, water damage, whatever. And when we processed them, there was no image at all on the burnt y nothing. I came up with an idea of using a food called Farmer's reducer, which ruminates to what they call a dmax or the really
dark blacks of the pictures. We put onto a computer generated processing machine and brought out eighty nine pictures, the most important ones I put into the book.
Right, And I just wanted to say that that is images that we had never seen before.
Now.
It's funny because if you're telling me these were basically acquired by you in well, you were working with them in nineteen seventy eight, about fifteen years after the assassination.
Much later.
It's much later.
These were much later.
Okay.
One of the doctors unauthorized took the pictures the authorities at the hospital confiscated them and never processed them. They were given by the doctor to the people at the hospital. The person at the hospital had them, gave them to a friend of mine who gave them to me, and I had them processed. And that's why we're even to have it. It was like forty years after or something much later, right.
Then, two thousand and three or so.
Then like maybe twenty years ago you were working with these then by that, okay, I just want to clarify that, because I wasn't sure. But the interesting thing here, though, is that these are images nobody's ever seen before. There are also images of Oswald's autopsy in there. There are images from the Zubruta film, the various other films that are in there, the analysis of it. And like I showed you earlier that that ticket from the Texas Theater,
here we go. I put it in plastic. I put in one of those protected plastics, but from the Texas Theater. That's an actual ticket from the days.
Look at that.
See now he's got a string of him there and he's going to include one of those as a bookmark in absolute proof for as long as well supplies last, right.
Okay, they're good. They getting rare and rare as time goes, but.
Well they would help you exactly, So keep that in mind.
And all the information to be able to acquire Absolute Proof is going to be in the show notes with the with the podcast or if you're watching this video, Uh, you'll be able to see it below, and you'll be able to contact Janet grow or Bob Roden one or the other uh directly and get.
The book from the author.
Uh.
Now there are other books available too, but they are not in print. Absolute Proof is still kind of readily available.
Uh.
If you go to the conference, though, I'm willing to bet you'll be able to get a hold of all three books.
And you just have to ask, right if if you contact Janet Claire twenty nine, Okay, spell this out j A n E T C l a I R two.
Nine at gmail dot com.
Janet Claire twenty nine, Okay, one more time j A N E T C l a I R two nine at gmail.
Dot com, you can get in touch with her and figure it out. Eighty dollars to buy the book twenty to mail it in the US. If you live somewhere outside of the us.
Different arrangements might have to be made because postageink going to be twenty bucks.
But otherwise, yeah, you can start there. I would advise you get.
A hold of all three of the big books if you can, the magazines that Bob has put out, other books Bob has put out, uh you know, for for instance, High Treason, the first one, not the second one.
High Treason.
Is a good book, you know, because because I had personal interactions with the guy who was a co author years at one time.
And uh, anyway, you and I will talk another time about that.
Okay, maybe not suitable for air anyway, it is what it is. Uh, But yeah, so High Treason. Yes, also Bob has co authored a couple other pieces. But I advise strongly that if you're serious about the case, and you're interested in getting the information for yourself and studying
the visual information, you need those three big books. You need the two videos that Bob showed you, Okay, and you can get a lot of other stuff that has Bob Groden's name on it, because, as we've said here, look he got a six decade now long plus history working with the photographic evidence, and on his eighteenth birthday, happy birthday again, Bob on the twenty second, which I'll be able to say to you in person when I see in Dallas. Guess what that's the day the president
was assassinated in Dealey Plaza. But meanwhile, will be in Dallas myself and Bob Brodon. I'll be the MC Bob is going to talk to you about Guess what films and photos and what is the title of your presentation?
You have a title yet not really Essentially, what it comes down to is that it's dealing with the legitimacy of the Zubruter film. I'm wasting so much time, but it's so important. This is my legacy for crying out. I could have ended up in jail. I could have been shy, I could have who knows, and you know the story in Daley Plaza. I got to Dally Plaza, I started to up to people about this. The city of Dallas ticket to me eighty four times.
Oh I had my number wrong though.
Twice because they didn't want this information. Now, let me give one last description on the book if I can sure. The book has got a thousand pictures in it, literally a thousand pictures, about seven hundred of them have never been released before. The entire book is on acid free semi glass paper, so it'll never fade, never yellow. I'm very, very proud of it. Of the e books I've written, this is as good as all the others put together.
Thank you, absolutely, But look, I'm telling you guys now, I don't care if you find it used. If you pick it up from Bob directly, I strongly advise you to get the other two as well. They are a three volume compendium of the best photographic evidence that you're going to get your hot little hand without having to go out and chase things down for about thirty years, Okay, I'm just telling you that's what it would take you probably to assemble these things yourself, if you were to
go and get decent copies of various things. I mean, I have a hell of a time even getting press photos at this point, right, But we've been through all that before on the show. I'm extremely happy. Thank you Bob Goroden for you know taking Now, we took more than an hour. I'm sorry, but we can't compress this
into an hour, to be honest with you. But I look forward to seeing you in Dallas, which again the Lancer Conference will be from the twenty second to the twenty fourth at the Dallas Marriott Downtown.
Okay, so you'll be able to attend there.
And if you go to Assassination Conference dot com and use the discount code Ocelli ten, you'll get ten percent off of your ticket. Also, student prices are available. I advise you to go there in person, but if you can't, you can attend virtually. And Bob Groden is definitely worth the price of admission all by himself. So with that all having been said, I'm done for tonight. We didn't take commercials or anything, but hey, what are you gonna do? It is what it is, and I'm glad that you
could join me. I'm merely o'celly. All of you are indeed the effect. Robert Groden was my guest, and look down below either in the video or in the podcast description to follow through and get yourself a copy of Absolute Proof or anything else you can by contacting Bob Groden and following up on the photographic evidence in the JFK assassination.
Thank you, Chuck for all right.
Much revelation through Conversation dot com, Radio Chili dot com.
The War State by Michael Swanson explains the great national transformation that took place and put the Kennedy presidency in the context of the times, and reveals never before published information about the Cuban missile crisis. President Kennedy would not have been assassinated if he had been president two hundred years ago. His assassination took place in the context of the Cold War and the rise of the national security state.
Before World War II, the United States was a continental republic. In the decade that followed, it became an imperial superpower. Generals such as Curtis LeMay not only wanted to invade Cuba, but knew that there were short range missiles on the island arn't with nuclear warheads that they could not destroy because they were on mobile launchers. Their invasion could have led to a Third World War, and they wanted to
go to war anyway. The War State by Michael Swanson reveals why, and we'll show you what President Kennedy was up against.
For more information, the Warstate dot.
Com yo Yolas Doug Campbell, host of the Dallas Action podcast presented by Wall Street Window, and you are listening to the o'chilly of quickt revelation through conversation.
Go ahead, Colin about the DAFA assassination. Right, well, what do you want to know?
Dye Bakers wild claim Oswald girlfriend he knew Ruby and Barry answer weapons.
I imagine I could claim I have four wheels. It doesn't make me a wagon.
But okay, Oswal was on the building and trying to prevent the leader of John Kennedy.
Come on now, is a.
Real effort on the day of pay assassination.
Go to Amazon dot com enter Judith Baker in her own words. You'll get the results for a digital copy of a book where Walt Brown utilizes her own words and the known evidence in the case to get at well a different perspective. Let's say you can get Judithbary Baker in her own words from the author himself, signed if you request it by contacting doctor Brown at ki as jfk at aol dot com. It's a fun book and it actually dissects the many, many fantastic claims.
Judith very Baker in her own words, Thank you for all the great information.
Do you like history?
Real history that you were never taught in schools? Why the Vietnam War, nuclear bombs and nation Building in Southeast Asia by author Mike Swanston, with new documentation never seen before that will open your eyes to events that led up to this. Why the Vietnam War, Nuclear Moms and Nation Building in Southeast Asia nineteen forty five through nineteen sixty one. Get you a copy today at Amazon dot com. Why the Vietnam War by author Mike Swatson.
You get ready for you tell me about ship.
Ship with.
My Nat scrape h.
Nuclear holocaust. You know what uranium is right?
You think of nuclear weapons and other things like lots of you know what uranium is right?
Things things that dona with urims leaving some broad things.
Nuclear holocaust.
You know what uranium is right?
I didn't Nuclear Holocaust