The Chilly Effect is sponsored by Wall Street, Window dot Com and listeners like you, Yeah yeah, Shelly, October two, twenty three, allegedly according to that thing we call a calendar, and this is the show you're looking for. So anyway, a Monday, and I don't do broadcasts on Monday every Monday any longer. But I had to tonight, and I'll tell you why. I wanted to make sure I got back to my friend Walt Brown. Walt Brown, PhD. Of course, he is the author of a
great many different works. Now a lot of them are JFK related, but not all of them. Uh. You know, if I crack open this book I have in front of me called The Kennedy Execution, and I just take a look at a list. Of course, the first thing I ever saw the people v Lee Harvey Oswald, Okay, history on Trial. Well, Oswald didn't go to trial. It was a novelization I believe would be the proper term, but then again, I'm not mister literary here. But
it was an enjoyable romp through what would happen? That led to some other work, Treachery in Dallas, the Warrant Omission, which I highly recommend and have recommended on the show recently, because that would be that book I said would probably more accurately rename The Commission The Dullest Commission. Wal Brown is an
active educator, or at least was up until recently. I'm not sure if he's still working, but I know he was for a long time, and he certainly educated not only students in a classroom, but hey, authors other people. He had The Deep Politics Quarterly for many years. I was a subscriber, loved that publication, published in there a couple of times myself. There's an oddity, if you know, I decided to actually, you know,
make that crazy attempt at writing. It meant something to me. The Deep Politics Quarterly was a unique and a powerful publication in my mind, and certainly it focused on JFK. But again, he's written about a lot of other things. And I didn't even finish his JFK stuff, did I The JFK Assassination Quiz book, which I have a few of them around here somewhere, great, by the way, if you can get your hands on them.
Not sure if they are still being printed anywhere, but I do know they're available on eBay from time to time, and maybe we'll find out if Walt's got a couple stashed around the house. Anyways, before we go anywhere else. You have you have the index, you have the Guns of Texas or upon you. You have the global index to the Kennedy assassination. You have the JFK Master Chronology, which is on CD. And it's because you couldn't probably afford to have this book printed as large as it is, over
thirty thousand pages. Okay, on the chronology, and what I thought was the end of Walt writing about this. Now, since then, he's written mystery novels, He's written a chronology on World War Two in the Eastern Front, he's written about well previous anyway, A long time ago he wrote about John Adams, great book on John Adams. I've read that one as well. I don't think I personally have a copy of that at the moment, but I would suggest you added to your library if you can. You the
listener out there. Okay, and yeah, a lot of stuff. But it was weird because after the chronology, I thought, what was done with the JFK assassination. I mean, he had spent many years not just researching it, but writing about it. Writing about it in the Deep Politics Quarterly. And it wasn't just a dry read either. There was a bit of the well, let's be blunt, some smartass remarks in there, okay,
some commentary occasionally some opinion from Walt. You could say he used to update us, and there used to be a guy that worked with him intensely about updating people as to who had actually passed, the witnesses that were no longer going to be available, to the assassination, the events of connected things to the Kennedy k etc. All of that went on in the Deep Politics Quarterly for years, and he spent years writing this chronology, which again I highly
recommend and short you can get it broken down into various e books so that you don't have to buy the whole thing at once, but you should certainly acquire the entirety of it, because it's an immense and amazing resource, first of all, and it's entertaining. So but anyway, the funny thing was the Kennedy execution came after that. All right, I have talked enough. Well, first of all, how are you doing tonight? You're in Jersey. I envy you for that. I'm in Georgia. But how are you
doing tonight? Oh I'm good and hello to everybody out there. We kind of lucked out over the last ten days. New Jersey and New York City have been just ravaged with rain and five miles of war. I lived. There were people getting around in kayaks, of course, I mean in the street. It's not the smartest thing to do, but they do it. We looked out in this little corner of the world, So thank God for
that. It's good to be back. It's always good to be on I gotta kick out of so many things in the introduction, Yeah, there are copies of the Quis book available. Is it being printed? No, it's a whole horror story with the group that printed it. They never paid me, but they sent me a couple of cartons of them. I appreciate the shout out to Brian Rooney who kept up with the news and the passages on the Deep Politics Quarterly, which was really a lot of fun to do.
In a thousand stories in there, I can tell you that another time, well pronology. Brian was a great guy. Yeah, just real quick, Brian. Brian was a great guy and I only got the chance to meet him once or twice. He was very, very careful and did a lot of work on that, and I know he was essential and keeping the passages together, which was a section was that always at the beginning of the d politics quarterly that that's not necessarily always Okay, a lot of times it was
at the beginning though, right the chronology itself. And yeah, you know, I know you're saying to people, Hey, you gotta read it, and you gotta get it. Anyone out there that wants it can have it. I'm not gonna, you know, pynical time. People are death over what it should cost or what it costs me to get it made. You know, we just we just go from here. I want people to read it, and as it turned out, a lot of people did actually read. Well, a good number of people read all of it. God bless,
a reasonable number of people read parts of it. I mean, I got some royalty checks from the company that published it. Interesting crew. I met them over dinner with Richard Belzer in New York City. But as I said, it took seven and a half years to do it. And during that time I took forty days off. And the reason for that was that every every entry in the chronology. Let's say it starts in eighteen twenty three,
and a lot of what builds up is the Kennedy family. They outside of the Secret Service, and it's changes or what it went likewise, the Bureau of Investigation, which became the Federal Bureau of Investigation. But every entry that went in there was always at risk of being contradicted or corroborated. And if I found something, if if I typed in X and I found something I corroborated, it had to match it up. If I found something I
contradicted it, I had to include that. And that meant that the whole thing had to be on my mental desktop every day, and it was. It was very rare. And then I got to the index. Then I took eight months. And then they can't put that on on the kindle or the whatever the sales because there's no pages on the readers. So the index is I don't consider it useless because it's annodd annotated. It tells you who all people are. That was eight months, never again, so getting to
you know, I'm done. You know that's it. Wow, put that out there. Happy days. I'm going to do something else. I don't know what I stopped teaching in two thousand and eight because they I was teaching at US Focal College and they took history out of the required curriculum, and I was the highest paid adjunct and it was the easiest one for them to I was the best value for them to exclude. So I went on unemployment
for three years, but I tasked the thirty four years. So I was all done with the chronology, and from the people who went through all or most of it, I got an awful lot of inquiries like, well, that's the bottom line, and that's where the ken the execution was born. You know, anybody that anybody that read anything more than oh, gosh, five hundred pages once or thirty thousand, I had a right, you know, to ask the tough questions. And I just decided, Okay, I'm
going to take what I know, what I can verify. And there were some things that I was able to verify eight nine years ago that were supposed to be made public but haven't been made public yet. It happens, it doesn't change the reality of the story. So I set about and the place I was going with all of it, based on what was in the chronology, was that the United States military or military intelligence or some little rogue squad
and the Pentagon we're behind the events in Dallas. And that's that's a tough call. And I imagine to some people it's a tough sell because they think the MOB data or Johnson data, or you know, Castro ordered it done. I don't know, but as you mentioned on your last program with me, I went, I went back to the beginning. I mean the beginning
of time. The first I guess the first maybe hundred pages, the first hundred pages of that book are the history of militarism in the world, starting with the days when men and women who had been hunting and food gathering decided, Hey, let's live in this place right and plant that stuff and harvest it, and we'll have food all the time. And it worked for a while, and then somebody else came along and said, Hey, we're bigger, we're uglier, we're tougher, we're taking over your land. Get out.
And you know that happened, you know, over the course of ten thousand years and in ten thousand places, to the point where in order to have your food and in order to have somebody named Rock or something like that producing tools you had to have them protected. And that was the beginning of the rise of militarists. And when you look around for a world today, no matter where you put your finger on a globe, they're going to have an army, because if they don't, the name of the place is going
to be changed and they're going to have a new flag real quick. The only place I can think of that there is no army, and then maybe more than one. But then place if I can think of the Vatican City, and they've got those guys in the funny costumes with the spears, and their commander in chief is heavyweight, so you know they can get away with it. And if having spent a couple of days in Vatican City and seeing
their riches there, I'm surprised nobody's putting a claim on that place. But militarism has gone on from time, you know, from the first time that the craps got crushed by nasty guys in our in our situation, we had volunteers in the seventeen seventies, which led to the Second Amendment shaking the musket down from over the fireplace and going out and chasing the British out of town.
And then we caught a break in the Orleans. The next time we fought the British because they won most of that war, and then we had our own in house war, which was a calamity by any by any standard, and then we decided, hey, we're not crazy about war anymore, so send the guys home. After the Civil War, General Custer was broken busted, downtick captain because they didn't need generals. The total army was like
fifteen thousand guys. He eventually worked his way back up to lieutenant colonel when he had his misadventure in Montana in eighteen seventy six, and sometimes many times, yeah, and General Custer got no Lieutenant Colonel Custer got killed, and we didn't have a standing army. For all intents and purposes, we had an industrially powerful nations which benefited from a Monroe doctrine that said, hey, said hell out of this atmosphere, and we won't buy the your atmosphere.
But for a long time it worked until after the Congress of Vienna, and the sophistication of weaponry was vastly enhanced because there was peace for the most part for ninety nine years between the Congress of Vienna eighteen fifteen and nineteen fourteen, and there was pressures going on in the United States, you know, we should help we should help them over there, and I don't think we understood quite what was at stake at first. Certainly we held off a long time.
Wilson got reelected on the slogan he kept Us out of war, and then he was inaugurated on March fourth, and war was declared the first week April, which is one of those things that happens. And the United States sent you know, the dough boys over to Flanders and elsewhere, and we were at the difference map that we were, you know, better armed or anything like that. But the two sides the axis, the Central Powers and
you know, England, France and whoever, they were just exhausted. I mean, millions of dead, you know that blow the whistle, go over the top, living the trenches, poison gas, airplanes, horror, just absolute horror. But there we were, with our fresh troops cleaning the forms. And it made a difference. Well. And the speed, the speed with which people were able to travel had increased exponentially at that point, so this was another factor, I think, right, absolutely, Yeah, absolutely,
and that's that's also a factor in militarism. You can get your army from point A to point B in a hurry, and that that obviously has only increased since nineteen fourteen, right, I mean previous to that, you had I mean, you know, people that had to wait for months to get to places. Years sometimes it took you to move an army from one place to another. Except and I made this point in the chronology and highlighted
it with some statistics which I always enjoy. Except for the people who served in the military, and that could be the soldiers in Europe, the American military such as it was from the Civil War to World War One, the Zulus in the dark. Except for people in the military, ninety percent of the citizenry never traveled more than twenty five miles from the spot where they were
born. It wasn't something they had no reason to do. So there was nothing twenty five miles away was the backside of the moon to those people, except as they run the military of because then the soldiers came home and told about eight places where they had been. How are you going to keep him down on the farm kind of deal? And there was a certain glory, one of a better you know, maybe false glory, glory attached to military service, particularly if you were, you know, trying to save what's yours.
But we came away from World War One as suddenly a superpower, and Wilson had something to do with it, had a lot to do with it, and it could have been we could have done a lot better absent Wilson's nasty racism. Quick aside, but we're not one of the guys that I'm most proud of, you know, sharing the state of New Jersey with Woodrow
Wilson. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Not not particularly likable character. And in fact, up until recent years, I would say a lot of scholars would have argued might have been one of the worst presidents in US history. Well, there's an argument that he was one of the best and one of the worst. And that's very telling, exactly, very telling. Exactly once he got back, once he got back, all of the glory of the dough boys and all of that that just staded and we sent to everybody home.
You know, the Germans. The German people gave up. They ran the Kaiser out of town, and there was an armistice and the victorious powers translate an armistice into surrender, which really wasn't because on November eleventh of nineteen eighteen, at eleven am in the morning, eleven eleven eleven, Germany had conquered Russia, you know, post Jarus Russia, and they were fighting in France. It wasn't like they were surrounding Berlin to protect it. They were
doing quite well, but they were exhausted and their guest was exhausted. And hey, let's call it time out. Well, you asked for time out, you lose. And that gave rise to to the fascism that dominated parts of Europe through the thirties and certainly least to the mid nineteen forties. And once again we said, we don't want to be part of this, but we knew for business reasons we had to be. Then I'm in choice,
you know, we had to protect our custom the nurse. And once the Germans overran Poland in the east and every place else in the West, we're wondering what we can do. And we knew Britain was hanging on by their finger nails because they survived Dunkirk, and Hitler let them survive Dunkirk, by the way, and we're just waiting. We're waiting for something to happen.
And when the Soviet Union was attacked in June of forty one, we were already signing on with what was called lend lease, which means we gave everybody a bunch of stuff, and they gave us leases on stuff we didn't need, but it was legal. We were just when you when you see the want list from Europe to US a week after Pearl even before Pearl Harbor, we want thirty thousand tons of aluminum to build air planes. We want three
hundred airplanes and five hundred tanks every month delivered. And you know, we we gave away a ton of stuff. The craziest stuff we gave away was in a lot of the packs packages that we sent it had spammed in them. And the Russian soldiers loved that. We also included razor blades, and it wasn't really necessary because must of Russians weren't old enough to shave. That's another ugly story. They were, they were, they a lot of them
were shorter than the coats they were given, no one to wear. And World War Two ended with US as the superstars, with the asterisk, the asterisk being Hiroshia and Nagasaki. But let's not talk too much about it or year next, and you know, the un Truman talk tough. We didn't take any nonsense in Korea, and we'd gone from an isolationist place totally in nineteen nineteen, been before two the world's military power going into late forties,
nineteen fifties, nineteen sixties and today. And having said all of that, with JFK as president, you could spin a globe. You on one of those little globe stands. You could spin the globe. You hit your fingers someplace. Your finger is probably going to land on a place that the Joint Chiefs of Staff wanted to do something about it. True. I want to interrupt you for a moment because there's a question in my chat room, you know, from a live listener who wants to know why Hitler allowed the British
to live on at Dunkirk. Good question, that's a fantastic question. Hitler had a tremendous belief in the British Empire as as a kind of a fault rom for stability in the world. He did not want the British Empire undone. If he could have raised holy hell, the dolftwoffer and gotten Britain to surrender and come to terms wouldn't have changed the British empire at all. It just would have taken him out of the war and there would have been you
know, Hitler and Stalin. And that's that's the best answer I'm aware of, because Goring hold Hitler. Listen, those guys are sitting on the ten and fifty thousand guys sitting on a beach. My planes can't miss him. Well, hold off. And it's not like they got stuck on the beach and they got run out of town on the next day. They were sitting there for days. They left all the heavy equipment behind, but the men,
the British Expeditionary Force and portions of the French Army got away. They were hoping Churchill hoped to be able to evacuate forty five thousand, and they got almost ten times that many off the beach in row boats, in sail boats, in cabin cruisers, in larger ships. It's an incredible story, easily easily vulnerable to the to the very well mechanized German army that should have been able to absolutely decimate that that group Kudarian's second Panzer Army had had dunkirks
around That's why they were stuck there. As the French believed in the maginal line until the Germans went around it. But as as I got to, you know, at some point in the presidency of JFK, you can put your go on the globe and the Joint Chiefs had an interest in something in that neck of the woods. Call it Laos, call it Vietnam, Cuba, Berlin, others. It's funny, these are almost I almost verbatim,
almost verbatim what you just mentioned. I mentioned just a little while ago when somebody asked me about this, where I said, you got to recognize that there was not a place on the planet that effectively you wouldn't be close to, somewhere where there was a conflict being encouraged and an idea that we should be able to win, that we should be able to win against the Soviets, against the communists who are here there everywhere, whether it was Laos,
Vietnam, East and West Germany, exactly the stuff that you mentioned. Let's invade Cuba, let's get them out of there, because they're in our backyard. I guarantee the replaces other than that in the Central and South American region that were considered as well, but they didn't have the headlines. But each of those places is a radiator. You know, Cuba is a threat,
not per se, but to spread the spread right Laos Vietnam. The Domino theory, as as stated in those words, those exact words by Eisenhower, Berlin Stalin communized Poland, Bulgaria, Romania, Hungary, Austria to a point, and they got it. They got away East Germany, blackvill Lithuania, Estonia. So the Iron curtain, and that phrase is attributed to both Girbels and Churchill, and Gurples was dead when Churchill said it, So do a math. The iron curtain was. It was there, but it was movable,
and we had to stop stop communism someplace. And this is the this is the context that the Kennedy presidency has baked in because this is the reality around them, right where people start talking about, well, Kennedy comes in like a war hawk kind of, but not really because he's a war hawk.
It's just that that is the situation of the time, that's the orientation that we're at, right, we're supposed to be at all times involved in this conflict with the Soviets, and either it's going to be a hot thing, or it's going to be a cold thing, or it's going to be a lukewarm thing one way or another. But we're constantly up against that and we don't want them to continue to spread around the world. This is not uncommon to anybody at that time period, but this is where he comes in
and proceeds. And there were there were communist cells, yeah, everything. When when France was overrun by the bear market, what survived with the communist cells. I mean they were as close to being France as the free French word, and you know, you had you had the whole McCarthyism in the US. Come on. I mean not that we're not close to that today, but that's another story. You know. It was just in a sense, it was a horrible time. I mean, lives were ruined because somebody
said, hey, I think you're a communist. And that's what Kennedy walked into. Yeah, and he knew that. And here's the thing though, his resistance though, because they kept offering him opportunities, they kept advising him, they kept telling him, we need to get on this. We need to get on that. And I mean everything from let's deal with Cuba or let's get more intense about what we're doing in Germany to you know, what
we can win a you know, a nuclear exchange. We can win in a nuclear change with the Soviet Union, don't dead, yes exactly, but we can win. And we need to do this because this is how we're going to guard the future. I mean, this was not you know it's it's it's Doctor Strangelove kind of, but it's also not fiction. This is the reality. This is serious. People thought said this, advised the president in this way, and we had a president that was not on board with
it, okay, and he you know Kennedy. What Kennedy did when he made that speech in Berlin, you know, let them come to Berlin, Berlin or that took took the air completely out of what was going on there
completely, and it was done verbally. You know, he had military guys standing there, but he stood in a place to see over that wall, and there could have been twenty thousand assassins targeting him, but they had to wait for Dallas in in Southeast Asia, when Kennedy was in the House of Representatives and he was considering running for the Senate against Henry Cabot Lodge, whose
family was intent entrenched in that Senate seat for generations. He realized his knowledge of foreign policy was not up up to what it should be to be in the Senate. And he and Bobby and his sister, I believe it was Patricia took a tour of Southeast Asia in nineteen fifty one, and he was sitting a top a hotel room, sitting up on the roof of a hotel having dinner in Saigon, was someone who had been one of his legislative aids
or whatever, and was now a State department functionary in Vietnam. And they could hear the gunfire miles away, right and the legislative aide and the name escapes me right now. But it's not important as a name, said to Kennedy. Outsiders can't win this thing. If the people of Vietnam can't win it, no outsiders going to win it. The French aren't going to win it, and We're not going to win it. And you know, when you see Kennedy talking to Walter Cronkite, you know he says, in the
final analysis, to their wary they wanted. They got to do it themselves, right, did a tribute for people. By the way, you know Henry Cabot Lodge. Very interesting because who is Nixon's running mate in the nineteen sixty election. Henry Cabot Lodge, Right, yep, yeah, you know, And that's amazing after losing his Senate seat because he didn't even campaign.
Oh I'm running against that kid, that Kennedy kid. Come on, he was out running around in nineteen fifty eight with all of the people that they wanted to get elected. And in the eight yeah, in the keep reading in the keep reading section again for the listener, I'm now going to bore Walt for a second. But you know in the keep on reading section, who was the ambassador to Vietnam? Who was who was the guy there?
Oh? Is it the same guy? He was the guy that couldn't arrange for airplane transport for No Din ZM and this brother No dn knew when they were assassinated ye three weeks before Kennedy. They knew they were in trouble. They begged to help lots us. You know, we're not on any planes. We can't help you. I think exactly twenty days before right. It was like November second, DM and new second of somewhere right in there. I'm you know, it's not like we were getting, you know, timely
newspapers from Vietnam. But it was right there. I think it was reported on that day. But if it was a day before or a day after, it wouldn't be a surprise, is what you're saying. And of course the other connection is who was the large family chauffeur in the nineteen forties. Oh, well, that would be the same guy who was driving the car in Dallas. I think Bill Greer. H yeah, but that's his name. To me, that's coincidence. Isn't that some question? I don't.
I don't see anything. But the generals wanted something done in Berlin, and the Russians sent out a battalion of tanks, a tank battalion to what was by now the emerging the Wall, and the American military planners wanted to send out bulldozers and knock go all over. Kennedy ships can't do it because the Russians have to save face. You they they can't, you know, we
can't attack them. So Kennedy ordered an equal number of tanks to be sent to our side of the wall, while Bobby went back channel with the Soviet ambassador who got to hold the crew step right away and said, look, the tanks are facing each other. Pull you as away, and he did. And that was the end of it. But the military that and that was not that all. Nah, yeah, that was it had to be after sixty two comes the wall, right, it was at all at far
from Dallas. Now it's within it's within eighteen months of Dallas, I'm certain. And here here's okay exactly so we have some right we have We have another question from the chat room, which I want to get to, but I want to say that right now. You guys have just listened to Walt explain effectively the first chunk of the Kennedy execution pretty much in a different way than it's in the book. It's not it's not like you just read from
the book. But he explains a lot of what is in the very opening uh sentiments, let's say, in the Kennedy execution, which is what we're talking about tonight. And I just want to make that clear and give you this question from the chat room because it is it is interesting, and I might reword it a little bit. Now you know, what the hell with it, I'm gonna read it. Well, okay, so you know,
pardon me for reading and takes me a second. After the assassination, would it be accurate to say LBJ was put in a position where he had to act against communism because the government concluded that it was the communists that did it, or like, in other words, he had to act in Cuba, Vietnam, or Germany somewhere to act against the communists because communism certainly had something
to do with it. And now I'm going to add to this. After all, Lee Harvey Oswald was the commy right, he was the Cuba supporter that he's gotta we got to act against these kind of people. Do you think that LBJ was putting a position of having to do something like that after the assassination? He put himself in that position in the in the times when there were political crises, and particularly during the time that the Cuban missile crisis.
When they met as x come, Johnson didn't say pete and that there sorry, that would be the executive when Kennedy was not in the room, Johnson became a hawk, virtually saying to virtually tell them that joint chiefs, Hey, if it was me, and this would be different. And the three choices who gave Berlin, Cuba and Vietnam. Vietnam was easy, that wasn't Russia, and it was a guerrilla situation. Berlin was US and the
Russians period determined people had nothing to do with it. And Cuba was Russia in South America because guaranteed reaction would have had to occur from the Soviet Union based on the agreements. They had their submarines chasing on navy as we were watching the missiles being withdrawn, and we finally sent in submarines to say, hey, our submarines are covered in your submarines. But yeah, Johnson had to do something, and what he did was Vietnam. There you go.
So you're saying that would be accurate to say then that there needed to be a reaction against the communist world, so to speak, because but at the same time, if you follow take any six major newspapers in the United States in ninth in November of sixty three, Oswald starts out a lot more communist than he winds up a week later, when the Lawn Commission is appointed. He starts out as a Castro read and then Redman and they back off.
He's celeftist. You know. He handed out stuff, you know, meaningless stuff. He paid a kid two bucks to hand stuff out. The kid didn't even know what he was handing out. Charlie Steele, the fear was, Look, we can make him as communist as you want, because Oswald was a man for all seasons. If Chris Tip had been killed in the backseat of a limousine on November twenty second, nineteen sixty three, going through Minsk, Oswald would have been the target. Hey, look at this guy.
He was a US Marine sharpshooter who defected to get here. Come on, that's all the resume you need. Yeah, as it doesn't ransomaze, that's it. And the nice thing of which has been widely developed by his firstwhile lover right, and the interesting, the interesting, wonderful thing here is that look, you got him on tape saying no, I'm not a communist, I'm a Marxist Leninist. And that tape circulated really fast. Actually the
weekend of the assassination. It was heard on radio stations. And I've done an analysis on this. The speed at which that was distributed is amazing. Considering the technology of the time, it is virtually impossible in my mind for them to have distributed that that as quickly as they did unless somebody knew that they were going to have to literally ship tapes to certain places because there were
some places they were not going to be able to communicate audio. Okay, you'd literally have to mail them something that they could then put into their machines physically, and it played on some of those types of well broadcast platforms that government jets making deliveries. Well, you know, I would bet that I don't have verifiable information about that, but it seems to me as though between the Post Office and the military, they had the best network to be able
to get it done quickly. Uh in the country at the time. Anyway, I'm just saying focus well a lot, a lot better than it runs today. Despite the fact that I did see Walt's books. By the way, for Dallas, I have the Judith Berry Baker books in hand, guys, so I'm gonna have those in Dallas, and they came today, just so you guys know, on Monday. Sorry, Walt, I derailed you for a moment, but I wanted to get that question across and let you
continue, because you've adequately described the beginning of the Kennedy execution. But let's get into the rest of it, because this again is your post chronology, and the chronology, by the way, would have featured facts exactly like the Henry Cabot Lodge connection and who was driving the car in Dallas and all that. You could easily find that, track that and index that through the chronology if you wanted to, along with a lot of other stuff. Okay,
related to mister Greer, et cetera. Just saying, well, eventually, you know, when Kennedy walked out on some of the meetings, so they were talking, you know, saying, look, we can you know we can. If we can stand thirty million dead, you know we can do this thing. And you know he supposedly said that they call themselves human when he like castor off the hook without bombing them, missiles, doing both kinds of unimaginable things to Cuba, which, as we looked back sixty years later,
is a meaning was a little block in the Caribbean. Once he did did nothing there he was he was a target. The question it becomes where, you know, where is it going to be the best target, and ultimately it comes down to Dallas. There are too many things that happened in overlaps to the main event. I actually along those lines, I have another live question which is said to me via Skype if you don't mind, and
it is about precisely this, the events preceding Dallas and the location. Uh. They want to know if you have any thoughts on the possible plots which might have emerged in Chicago, Los Angeles I bring up, and this person mentions Los Angeles second, and then also in Florida previous to the trip to Dallas. What are your thoughts on those? Yes, well, certainly,
certainly there's there's smoke with respect to the Chicago events. Yes, And if memory served, and I'm not going to depend once, but that was very reasonably close in time to Dallas. I think Angelis was in the summer of sixty three, and you don't have the political climate in La God knows what you got there, but you don't have the political climate there that you have
in Dallas. That the critical thing about Dallas, and possibly you know in Tampa the week before they knew something was going on, they knew there was they knew there was you know, the secret Service, the people that needed to know that there was danger knew there was dangerous. But Dallas lost the hate capitalty in that state. Well, and even with the you don't have to blame any specific individual. Dallas did it right. There's a book with
that title. That's true. And the thing is about Chicago. You have an intensely industrial area there. There is uh not not the same kind of politics you got into Alice, but you have an intensity there where there's an
automatic cover. In Florida, you have the close proximity to the Cubans and a whole lot of this other stuff because there's a great deal of Cuban immigrates there of all types, and everybody is the headquarters of our overseas Bass Air Force Base, right, was that it was the headquarters of I think they called a shafe then, but it was. It was the centerpiece of everything.
And I lived nineteen sixty. I lived on an island about sixteen miles from Attill Air Force Base, and every night at six o'clock, four bombers went over my house headed for Cuba, armed and the place just shook, and it was it was you know, hey, that's the cold warrior hearing.
But so you had possibilities. Yeah, but the great, the great contrast you talk about with La though, that's a totally different animal because you don't have the intensity of the populace like you have in these other three locations. But again you see the reaction of the Secret Service. They changed the motorcade route in Miami. Right, they canceled the trip to Chicago, Las a little more nebulous, like it's there, there's more things going on there.
We're not. We don't have a clear indication of Secret Service reaction, but the concern about Texas was clear and present in any case, you know, no matter what you want to ascribe to it, with the Secret Service reaction. Right, So this would be a way to put those events in context with this. But it makes the most sense for the event to actually happen in Dallas. Right. Well, I used to well, I was involved with COPA many you know, thirty years ago we had a recording secretary
of sources. His name was John Judge, and I can still hear him saying, and he said it several times. The American government had an Oswald in every major city that they could just reach out to and get things done, and not by name Oswald, but you know Thomas Valley whoever. And I just looked at him and I said, how many major cities out there in the United States? Well, I didn't know. I said, we're talking five fifteen, and we're talking one or two in every state or in
the bigger states. So answer, but doesn't Oswald everywhere? So a ton, they don't need thirty Oswalds. They don't need need one. And the one that we had was in Dallas Hate Capitol at the World And I encourage anybody listening to get a copy of the speech that Kennedy was going to deliver at the Trademark. It would be entitled in your Face. I mean, it just called out Texas for what it was. And you're talking about the Trademark that we see footage of today where they were waiting for his arrival.
It was the endpoint of the trip through Daley Plaza from love Field and he didn't make it there, but that was going to speak it to Trademark and the speech he was gonna get, which is somewhere in the chronology. But yeah, there's one section in the chronology is famous speeches of Kennedy's famous speeches, and it's in there, but it's in your face. I mean, it's it just there's no olive branch in it at all. And and you know his vice president is from Texas and the future president was from Texas,
you know, which, of course that helps everything. It's if you turn it around. If LBJ had been president and JFK was vice president and Johnson had been killed in Boston, Kennedy would have turned the United States upside down and inside out to get to the bottom of what happened. Johnson didn't right the hand. But at the Hoover, sit here, do what you want to do. Wow, I've seen the rifle and you know, you know, you know, I've looked down the scope of Gosh, I could shoot
myself in the foot with that thing. It's so good. Yeah, well, a piece of garbage. But that's neither here nor there. Well were gathering, Yeah, just really quickly in that speech, after he gives this you know, hello, I'm glad to be here kind of thing. I like this one of the opening lines, which I'm sure you'll recall as I read it. It is fitting that these two symbols of Dallas progress are united in the sponsorship of this meeting, for they represent the best qualities I am
told of leadership and learning in this city. Okay, and uh are let's see, let's let's read on a little bit here, uh from M I T to cal Tech? You know, I mean, it's just yeah, this is definitely a speech with attitude. By the way, I'm gonna give you guys a link, a public link to this. Of course, I obviously would love for you to read it in Walt's chronology, but I think this is relevant and it is publicly available from the Kennedy Library online, just
so you know. Nowadays, at the time won't released it. I don't even think they had this stuff up, to be honest with you, which is weird. And it is a fairly interesting and intense speech that I think you'll agree with Walt's characterization of it. I'll also put it into researcher friendly. Not usually they didn't do that, right. I actually the Johnson libraries a little more friendly to you when you're trying to know, so I think
they are. No, not my experience. For a long time, the gatekeeper was a guy named Walt Rosto, who was one of Johnson's staff flunkeys in the White House, and I know Jay Harrison requested files that were theoretically available and got told you're not getting them. So I know, I know his experience, and that's that's basically the totality of what I'm working from it in terms of johnson lives. And of course the Johnson Library as crooked as
a day as long. It's part of the National Archives. So LB J and family did not put out sent one to build it, you know, not at all a lot of these other people that want to have the you know, Harry Schmidlapp Library, they got to pay for it. Not I'll be J and LB. Jay never paid out of his pocket. The people around him were always working. They they had jobs in the post office. He had Jack Valenti doing god knows everything well. He was headed at Motion
Picture Association, a job that Johnson had offered to haul people sawns. And look at him and I don't know what I know about the movies come on, but he will have paid twenty one thousand gets his cabinet job didn't pay him, but his speechwriting Jube didn't pay that much. But Johnson's in Texas that's that's a gold mine right there, right because he wasn't all that tremendously popular in Texas, and this was his chance to increase his popularity play the
game. The Secret Service was exhausted after the Florida trip, which was the weekend before the assassination. I mean they were, they were all were to place and as a result, you know, you've got people in the Dallas motorcade and of the three teams that were on site on November twenty second, the motorcade group was the weakest. Once you get past Kellerman and Greer, I mean in the car behind him, they got Jackie's two agents. They
got one guy on loan from the West Coast. The guy behind hill Ready was a full time agent. The guy's the guy up on the seat, George Hickey was a driver agent who was not, you know, a gun total Secret Service agent. He was a driver. The guy to his right was worked in the protective research section. He was you know, he filed the index cards. I'm sure when they tell him he was going to Dallas,
he had to go looking for his gun. The other groups had stronger contingents, with with the Ark Godfrey and the guy that wrote the book and then quit. Not Minders, the guy that quit. They wrote a book ten twelve years ago so which was a nonsense book. But he you know, he was there. He was in Austin the week before the assassinate.
It's a Tuesday before the assassination. Ruth Payne gets a phone call from someone named J. D. Wilmos, who was a professor of Russian at the University of Texas, and he says, listen, I'd really like to hear I have to have a talk with because you and Marina, because you know, I love you know, I love Russian, I teach Russian. I'd like to hear somebody from the Archangel oblast to hear, you know, the nuances in their speech. So he shows up on Tuesday in nineteenth Ruth paintiles.
The guy's a master spy. He was serving in the United States legation in Moscow in nineteen forty four, nineteen years before tonight's event. Gerald Blaine, in two days of working in Moscow, he could have heard every accent imaginable. He didn't need to listen to Marina to know what somebody from Archangel sounded like. That was a ruse, and his job was real simple, Marina Ruth, here's the deal. The world is going to fall on Lee Oswald's older real soon. You can get on the bus or you can be
sewn under it with him. Period. That was the conversation once the HOWD he does were over. Favorite Payne has spent spent I think she stole alive, but she spent the last sixty years trying not to let people know who she is and what you do. You know her sister and her brother in law work in Langley, that's no secret. She's living in a cracker box and her husband is separated from Merne. He's working I think for Bell Helicopter, and the whole thing is I like how I like how CBS Television describes
her as the Oswald's best friend. On that first broadcast when they did this special, the Oswald's best friend asked Marina about the friendship sometimes, Uh, it was. It was a horror the Motorcade itself. Again, there's weaknesses. I mentioned on the last time we talked that there was a listing of who the officers were that were Motorcade related from the airport, but the trademark there's no listing available from the trademark back for the airport something. I don't
know what that means. I don't know what that means. Well, traffic itself, the traffic itself was or the security was strictly traffic cops. There weren't any detectives on the street. Uh you know, there weren't any people running around looking trope and windows or anything sticking out traffic cops. And if you had such and such corner to cut the traffic so the motorcaid could go
by. As soon as they went by at twenty miles an hour, you got on your motorcycle and on forty miles an hour about four miles ahead and cut some more traffic because they had just enough guys. And the first car in the motor kaid was driven by the head of the traffic bureau for due larrence. The second car had two detectives and it was the driver was the Dallas Police lieutenant who was the head of the US Army reserves in that region.
So when when when you hear Kevin Costner, your own, you know, the the army which is always there, was told to stand down. The army was there, they just didn't didn't do any enforcements. Lumpkin, that's the name Lumpkin Tenant. I think it's George Lumpin next to him as a man with several names, some people call him George Whittmeier. Other people's say his name is Albert Weidemeyer w e ede Meyer. And he has a curious background because one, what's he doing there too? Who is he?
And three he was really close friends and worked side by side with Curtis Lama in the bombing of Japan in the nineteen forties, So cleary, he's interested in what the what the US military can do, which by the way, was more deadly and destructive than even the use of the nuclear weapon in the immediate use of the fire bombing in Japan. Oh brutal. Yeah, it was absolutely brutal. You know, sixteen square miles went last night because Japan the houses are made of good and paper. Uh, you know, it
was it was. It was a follow up to Dresden in Germany. And at least we had a sense of humor with that event because we did it on ash Wednesday. Well look, I you know what, we have gone slightly over an hour here and again this is about what's in the Kennedy Execution. And it's really fascinating Wall because you've kind of told us a bunch about things that are not in the book and a few things that are in the
book. And I love this because this is the somebody just wanted you to finally put a cap on it. And I don't want you to tell people exactly how this concludes, but maybe give him an idea and tell him, uh, you know, look, I'm gonna give I'm just gonna put Walt's email address out there and you can get in contact with him and get a hold of a copy of the Kennedy Execution, a copy of the Judith Verry Baker, in her own words in Chronology, if you were one of the
eighteen surviving copies of Warren omission the others I don't have. I have one of those behind me here on the book show. I don't have. I have one copy of People Vague. But John Adams book was the first one I ever did. That was my doctoral dissertation and it got published by luck U. Yeah. From from the time, well, when Lumpkin and Wadamier get to the corner Houston and Elm, they had to stop because of the
epileptic situation that had happened there. That gives them an opportunity to look over and take check out a man named James Powell, who was a military US military intelligence agent whose job was there wasn't military intelligence all the way along in the total presence was across the street from the depository. They wanted to make very short that Lee Oswald was not out on the street walking around when the shots were fired. So Powell's job keep him in the building, make sure
he stays in there. And then he goes running into the building and nobody would have known who he was except he told him. He said, look, you know so, and so I got to get out of here, and he showed his credentials. But the reason that second car stopped us to make sure that Oswald's in the building. The car turned the corner and the rest is history. And you know the stories about Curtis wal May being at the autopsy. I can't prove he wasn't. I can't prove he wasn't,
But there was talk about a general in Curtis. You know, it's not the rarest of names, but it's not Smiths of Jones or Brown either. But regardless Curtis Lamy should have been six hundred feet underground Omaha, Nebraska, at the head of a strategic air command, because that was his job. And he wasn't that, you know, because who knew for certain except the guys that write the stories. Who knew for certain at six o'clock PM that
it was totally a domestic event. Only the people that made it a domestic event. And there's dismore in the Kennedy execution. It was, you know, the history to get you from ten thousand BC in nineteen eighteen. It's a little dry, but it's informative as hell, right. And then, as you might remember, the chapters are the view from Havannah, the view from Deely Plaza, the view from the White House. You know, each one of those places comes together in Texas and the rest. We'll have a
sixty and anniversary next month. It's it's unbelievable at sixty years, right, So please your listeners get a hold of me. I'm not going to break anybody's bank, including my own, but I'm glad to help if i can, and and Chuck has my email, we'll do what we can do. Right, I'm gonna put it in the show notes. Ok. The Uh it's k I. As you know, I don't have it in front of me. I should have a JFK JFK right, K I A s JFK at aol dot com. There it is k I A s JFK at aol
dot com and it'll be in the show notes. You'll be able to click on it and go and email them directly. He's got the chronology, like you said, he's got Kennedy Execution. You can get from him the Judith Verry Baker book. If you don't get one from me in Dallas next month, you can easily get one from Walton. By the way, I have
them signed here, they are signed. Uh, but you can get him her no bye bye by you exactly, although you know I am actually thinking I'm trying to approach her and seeing if I can get her to sign one, in which case I will mail it back to you. I love, I will mail that back. You've got a copy of Posner's book. Yeah, it's Posner's book about Martin Luther King God, and it's signed by Posner and James R. Alay's brother. Really, Uh, you have I have
with James R. Already book signed it's been sitting here forever. Well that's a great one. Uh that that that's that's collector's item right there. But I'll tell you I I my only question about that other book is did he actually write it or anything? Oops? Did I say that out loud? You know, because some people played out. I don't know if he did, because he was busy spending time with Nassenko. Yes, my reservation was canceled. Yeah. Well, you know, I look at the guy.
The guy really quickly was able to go from what Wall Street lawyer to having all that research done on the Kennedy assassination. I mean in what six months? I mean, that's a hell of thing, you know. And he became a presidential historian? Did he? When I've seen him on TV down below? It's a presidential historian. I got a PhD in US history. I've written a book about a US president alive, and I'm a conspiracy farrist. I'm sorry why I have to I have to laugh exactly do the math?
Uh so again? Wal Brown? Uh? You know Wal Brown, PhD? Doctor Brown? I called you doctor Brown in the post out there by the way, just to just to confuse people and give him something like what is you talking about? Uh? And but believe me, the show notes will will reflect. You can get in touch with them. The chronology. I recommend the Kenny actually, all of Walt's writing on the Kennedy assassination
I can recommend. I also dig the John Adams book for Short. I didn't I forgot that that was, but you reminded me that was your doctoral thesis. But if you guys can get a hold of that, get it. You don't have any copies of the people be Oswald that are available, but you still have the quiz books, which are cheap. By the way, the little quiz books are cheap. I know that. Yeah, they
cost as much as a postage. There you go, and you know, maybe if you get a couple of things from walk get a little package together, I'm sure Walter'll hook you up, you know what I mean. And definitely worth it. I advise it. And again I don't put everything on my shelf. You guys know this. I mean, even people that send me free books and nice packages and all that. I don't bring everybody, even on the show, because some people are wasting my time. There's no
wasting your time. Whether you're going through thirty thousand pages, or you're looking at this very short book on Judy or it's you know, three hundred and forty or whatever pages of the Kennedy Execution. I think it's around three forty something like that. Two fifty four now, oh, two fifty four now, okay, yeah, you must have made it larger. Spiral bounds. Oh right, I have the one that is black. It's got a plane cover, and uh, you know, but you actually are have some spiral
bound ones which are a little bit different dimensions. That one you have is out of print, that's sold out, okay, okay. And I know the Judith Verry Baker book which has that you know, thought bubble on it. I love that, by the way, uh that I had about twenty of them left. Well, I'm going to bring about a dozen of these the Dallas guys just say, you know, so you know, I'm gonna
offer him out there. Maybe some will be prizes, maybe some will be sold, but I will definitely have him available and again minor signed and you can get stuff signed from Wall too. Again. His email addresses KI A S JFK, which he told you on previous shows with that stands for at aol dot com. So k I a s JFK at aol dot com. That might sound familiar to you guys for the little audio commercial I run too, h So there you go, and in fact, I'm gonna run it
at the end of this podcast. Well, and again, I really appreciate you taking more than an hour with me tonight. I would love to read the chronology you have on World War Two in the Eastern Front and get into the file if you could give me some of that so I could at least familiarize myself with your work on I'll get to the file. I'll send it at the file. Be more than glad to talk about that. I'm always willing to talk about you know, jfk uh stuff as well, and especially
with the sixtieth anniversary coming. And if you guys want, if you guys have a good productive reason, tell me that you want walk back on and I will gladly try and squeeze him in again before I go to Dallas and see if he's got time available and we could talk about the chronology or the Kennedy execution or the Judy book or any of that stuff. Or if you guys have a whole slew of questions which I have a feeling you might give them to me, and I'll conduct a podcast with Walt based on that.
We'll just ask your questions. And I say again that, look, he's a diverse individual, for sure, but I consider him to be one of the experts. I found it remarkable the one time you were talking about Josiah Thompson during one of those get togethers at your house, and you said to me, because I was sitting there, and I was kind of, I'm not very impressed by a lot of these guys who are allegedly experts and a lot of the authors, because I find out in ten minutes that they usually
some of them don't even know what's in their own damn books. Walt, Let's be honest, Okay. So I gotta tell you I would sit down with Walt though, and you know, the guy's knowledge was immense on the case, and it wasn't the only thing he knew. He didn't devote his entire life to it because he had other life besides the you know, seven years he spent writing the chronology. But the thing is, he said to me, you know it was great when uh, you know, Tink Thompson.
Some people call him tink. I don't know him that, you know. I mean, I've encountered him before, but I don't know him. Josiah Thompson. Guy wrote six seconds in Dallas, and guy I wrote last second in Dallas, right. Uh, he says, well, before last second in Dallas was a thing. Uh. He asked Walt a question about something, and what was like, this is like, uh, I forget exactly which baseball player you said, but it was like something like this.
It's it's almost like Johnny Bench just asked me for a batting tip. Derek Jeter, Okay, well, I used Johnny Bench wouldn't have been bad me on the phone and he was going to be debating somebody and the question about something. I said, oh, well, look here's the answer. WI. You'll find the answer. You make out of what you will. And we went back and plus you know, how how do you do all of that? When I up the phone, I said, Jesus derec teed to
just called me for batting tips. That's what it was, That's what it felt like. And that's no disrespect, meant to think, because he's been at this a long time and he's done good work. No. But the reason why I bring it up is because you asked my opinion about something, uh during one of these get togethers, and the room full of people kind of snapped their heads at me, like, WHOA, why do we need
to get his opinion. I felt for a moment there like I had my Derek Jeter just asked me for a batting hit moment, because you asked me my opinion about something where something led and it was related to I think it was related to the whole. At the time, waltimate sacrifice was a big deal, so C day was a highly charged debate among people or whatever, and you would ask me something about that, and I had that same kind of moment. I was like, you want my opinion on this. You
know more about this than I do. Walt is an expert on the I don't call myself an expert. I never have. There are some people that are worthy of being called experts on particular areas. I talked about that last show, and that's true. Walt is one of those guys, though, that I consider to be an expert on the whole of the case. Does that mean he knows every single thing? I don't think that's possible for a
human being. But he is an expert. So I love doing this with you, Walt, and I really want to thank you and appreciate the time. And I'm going to be really I love the idea of taking questions. Yes, believe me. If these guys will give me enough questions, I mean, I will write to me info at Ocelli dot com, write to me on social media, give me your questions for Walt Brown. Do a whole show. I'll give you guys a couple of weeks to write to me,
and let's do it. Put him in the chat room, put him everywhere, get them to me, and I will assemble them, try to make sense out of him if I can, you know, like put him in an order sort of, and we can just do a whole Let's ask doctor Brown. Let's ask Walt Brown. And the one thing, one thing I absolutely have to warn your audience if I don't know the answer, I'm gonna tell you I don't know the answer. I'm not going to both smoke up your nose. Yeah. No, I love that. I see.
That's that's what you call. You know, somebody who's honest about what it is they know too they don't make up. See. That was the other thing that you and I used to witness with people too. I know we
commiserated about this more than once. Where it's like, you ever notice how some people just feel compelled to make up an answer for the sake of an answer because they want to give one, but they don't they don't have I would much more apt, and I always said this, I would much more appreciate it where a guy goes, listen, I know a lot about this, but I don't know that I don't know about the thing you're asking. You know, It's sort of like the guy who is giving you the whole
dissertation on the Secret Service, but he doesn't actually know firearms. So you ask him a firearm related question. He might go, listen, I know about all the Secret Service in her workings, but I don't really know anything about firearms. So I gotta I gotta not answer you here because I don't know. I appreciate that so much better than the guy who goes, well, let me see what I can do, you know, and he just makes it up, And you know, it's so obvious when that happens.
Anyway, Walt doesn't do that, so if you guys answer ask good solid questions, you will get good solid answers. Inasmuch as Walt knows about it, and the chances of Walt not knowing about it are kind of low, but you might stump him. I don't know. Maybe we'll give a prize. I'll tell you what. I'll give a prize to somebody who can actually stunt stump Walt. How about that? How about I'll give you I'll mail I'll personally mail you one of the Judith Verry Baker books, free of charge,
directly to you. No problem, if you actually send me a question that stumps Walt, not something ridiculous deep in the minutia. I mean, you know, like was you know, was Jesse Curry left handed? Don't don't give me this kind of crap. I mean seriously, although Walt might know it, but but don't give me that. I mean, if you really stump them on something and it's sort of like, wow, Okay, that's a good question. But you know, if you stumped them, I'll
send you a Judith Ferry Baker book. How about that? And we'll just we'll work it that way. What do you say, Walt? Does that sound good? To you. Yeah, or I will. We'll get him a book. We'll get We'll get you a book. There's the other thing. They might have a Judith book. We'll get you a book. One way or another. You stumped them. So there you have it. Walt again, I want to thank you, and I'll let you go with this and let everybody else go for the night. Uh. This has of course
been the Ocelli effect on a Monday. And yeah, we're getting close to the sixtieth anniversary at JFK. I'm going to be in Dallas with Walt's book, Judith Ferry Baker in her own words. But tonight we were discussing the Kennedy execution, which was the conclusion effectively really to a very very long really a thirty year trek through the JFK evidence with Walt, but a seven year effort of writing this chronology, which is immense again two thousand pages approximately,
is what the index, not the book, the index. Okay, So your thirty two thousand plus page chronology, which is a completely valuable resource available on CD and you can write to Walt to get a hold of those things. The Warren omission I suggest as well, you need one of those before they're all gone. And of course this book we talked about tonight to Kennedy execution Judith Arry Baker in her own words, all of Walt's work whatever you can get ki A s JFK at aol dot com. And all I got
to say to you guys, I'm merely ocelli. All of you were indeed the effect, and we were really happy to have Walton send me those questions. And we'll do this again soon. How about that Wall Street window dot gold silver, the dot market, Wall Street window dot dot Perhaps you're invested deeply, perhaps you're not in deep enough. Maybe you're thinking about getting started
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a wagon. But okay. Oswald was on the builty and science prevent the murder of John Kennedy. Come on, now, has it real Eckert on the Day of Hay Assascmation. Go into her claim. Go to Amazon dot com. Enter Judith Baker in her own words. You'll get the results for a digital copy of a book where Walt Brown utilizes her own words and the
known evidence in the case to get at well a different perspective. Let's say you can get Judith Barry Baker in her own words from the author himself, signed if you request it by contacting doctor Brown at k I A s JFK at aol dot com. It's a fun book and it actually dissects the many, many fantastic claims Judith Barry Baker in her own words. Thank you for all the great information.