The Age of Transitions and Uncle 2-2-2024 Nigel Saunders

You're listening to the Age of Transitions. I'm your host, Aaron Franz, coming at you live this Friday night, February second, twenty twenty four. Live every Friday night from the facilities of OELI dot com ten pm to midnight. The first hour is the Age of Transitions, second hour becomes Uncle the broadcast. Thank you for listening live or in podcast form, however you may

be doing so. Thank you very much. Do you consider keeping the OCEL radio network going by sending a donation at ochili dot com and you can find my website and the podcast directly at Theageotransitions dot com. Lots of ways to support I have copies of my book Revolve Man Scientific Rise to Godhood. There's paperback or ebook copies. I would just say if you want to buy the paperback, the best way to support me is to go to the Lulu dot

com link and not buying it through Amazon. If you're able to. There's a link on my website to the paperback book. So if you go through Lulu, that helps me even more so than the Amazon book. But however you buy the book, thank you for doing so. I do appreciate that. Also have the Patreon campaign, which I've not added to recently, but I was just thinking about that today. I need to get back and add more material. I will thank you everybody who has continued to support you keep

this show going. It does really help your continued patreon ship at Patreon. That means a lot and it helps us show continue. Also have the affiliate links. If you're thinking about starting your own podcast, Libsyn to podcast as hosting service. That is handy and it helps get your podcasts up a place to put your file. You can get it on all the big pod apps super easy, but it just makes life very simple. If you use promo code Fronds, we'll get two months of libs and for free. You can

also click through the link at the Age of Transitions dot com. If you're ever buying books or other media online, make sure you click through the bookshop dot org link at my website and that will take you to bookshop dot org. Once you click through the link from my site to Bookshop, anything you buy on there, I'll just get a small little referral fee. Essentially,

I won't cost anything extra for you. But yeah, if you're buying any books, do remember to click through the link on my website, and again you won't be buying on Amazon again, so that's always a good thing. So I encourage you to do that whenever you're doing anything through my say, if you go through Amazon, it's okay. But and alternative is always better, isn't it. Also have the t shirts for the Age of Transitions and Uncle the podcast still thank you for being here tonight. This is a live

show. You may call in and join me if you want. Three one nine five two seven, five zero one six is the phone number. You can also use Skype. If you do type a message to Chuck He's Charles dot Ocelli and he will call you. So you type a message on Skype, he calls you. Where you can call on the phone. Three one nine five two seven five zero one six. We are here once again. We are still in the Age of Transitions. That hasn't changed. Are we

used to this yet? Have you grown a custom with this strange day and age, this bizarre time we live where technology rapidly progresses, advances at a speed that which no human can keep up with. And the technology itself, I mean, it's getting away from itself even and we can have all sorts of interesting philosophical debates whether or not machines have become conscious, self aware,

sentient in any way, shape or form. We can actually have a debate about that, and it's a reasonable, reasonable debate to have today in the year twenty twenty four. We made it. We're here in the future. Are you excited? Are you thrilled? Is this fun? Is it horrible? Is it a dystopia? Is it a utopia? Is it just business as usual in the United States of America or whatever country you happen to live

in. Is it just kind of the same Is it the same as you remember when you grew up, whatever decade that happens to be has not much truly changed? Maybe not has a whole bunch changed? Yeah? Probably? What does it mean then? It's changed? Is their meaning in anything? Do our lives have meaning? Why are so many people depressed? Is there a reason that people are so depressed beyond just you know, chemical reactions going on in our brain. Is it just some random occurrence the neurons are misfiring

and there's some sort of chemical imbalance in our brains and nothing more. It just kind of happened out of nowhere, or maybe maybe psychological conditions are the byproducts of our environment. We are creatures living in an environment. Our environment. Is it stable, is it in a state of stasis? Is it ever changing? Does it change on its own or do we affect change in our environment? If we affect change in our environment, to what degree do

we affect that change? What is the change that's being done? Are we consciously aware of the changes we're making? Are we just making changes unaware that we've even done it in the first place. And there's so much happening that we're just not consciously aware of because we were not even thinking about. We're just kind of acting. We're doing stuff, and it's having all sorts of effects and ramifications of which we're we have. We have zero accounting for it.

We haven't been we haven't noticed it. If we notice it, it's only because like it's like an anecdotal thing. It's like, yeah, my head hurts and the air smells weird. It's like, well, maybe there's a bunch of chemicals floating in the air, and maybe that's why you have a headache. Have we gone about testing the air for the various chemicals that are in it? Probably we have, Probably somebody probably did and we're not

aware of it. And there's another interesting philosophical question. If somebody found out that there's proof for something, but you don't know of it, what's the importance of that? What does our what is the value or not thereof of our own ignorance, Because clearly we're all ignorant of a lot of things. There's no way out of it. Again, it's impossible to keep up with

all the stuff happening out there. Good luck, it's impossible. It's hard enough to keep track of our own tiny little lives and get them in order. We're all just struggling to do that. Meanwhile, there's an entire giant world spinning as it always has. But there's all these different X factors entering in the equation because of the rapid speed of change that we have instituted via

our our alchemical power. Really are our ability to change our environment by taking the raw materials from it and reconstituting them in many and varied ways, we're definitely really good at doing that. We have become sure, let's just say we become masters of it. We have mastered that craft, the craft of artifice generally speaking, umbrella term. But I think it's appropriate to use an umbrella term talking like this. So here we are. That's the age of

transitions. Nothing to worry about, no big deal, it's just business as usual. We do have to find a way to exist again in our own tiny lives that we all have, make the most of it and move forward, and I hope sincerely that you all are doing a good job of that. I know it's not easy, so sincere hopes go out to you the listener, whoever you are in your own personal pursuits. But I wanted to take the opportunity here on the show to read a couple of news articles or

read from them give commentary on them. The first one I may hit here is one that gets into a topic I've been talking about for a while, which is the concept of cybersecurity, specifically the possibility of large scale cyber attacks. There have been all sorts of different hacking incidents and cyber attacks that have occurred up to this point. There's been all kinds of them, so it's

not something that has not happened. However, I think at some point what's going to be a game changer is a cyber event that is so large in scale that it truly could be described as like a large scale terror attack, right, not dissimilar to the nine to eleven terror attacks from two thousand and one. Something at that kind of scale I think is very likely to happen at any time. I don't know when I but all I know is that

it could happen any day now. It could happen, and I just presume that it's going to its amount of time, honestly, And I don't like saying that. I don't like making that prediction, but it just seems like a foregone conclusion. And on that front. The other day was it Thursday, I was watching I just you know, how the TV comes on at work in the break room, That's what was going on. It was a

Good Morning Americas on the on the TV. I just kind of like walked in and I took notice because what they were talking about was the threat of large scale cyber attacks on the US, specifically from China. They're saying like this is a big threat, China is will Basically they're saying they will hack US at some point as a massive security threat. And yet specifically they named China, which is fascinating that they did that. I mean, it tracks

with so much that's been going on. But the fact that this was a Good Morning America news story was a bit unsettling, and I guess I saw that on Thursday. On Wednesday, the news really broke this. I'm gonna read from this article from CNN from Wednesday, Wednesday, January thirty. First, the title of this article, again from CNN dot com. The title of the article is FBI director warns that Chinese hackers are preparing to rekavoc on

US critical infrastructure. So let's see here. Let's read from this. FBI Director Christopher Ray on Wednesday warned that Chinese hackers are preparing to recavoc and cause real world harm to the US. Quote China's hackers are positioning on American infrastructure in preparation to wreak havoc and cause real world harm to American citizens and communities if or when China decides the time has come to strike unquote, Ray told

the House Select Committee on the Chinese Communist Party. Those cyber officials have long sounded the alarm about China's offensive cyber capabilities. Ray's dramatic public warning underlines the huge level of concern at the top of the US government about the threat Chinese hackers pose to critical infrastructure nationwide. The head of the National Security Agency and other senior US officials also testified on Chinese cyber activity in front of the panel

Wednesday. Okay, so yeah, this is the House of Representatives, Washington had a panel. Let's see here China. These government backed hackers, Ray said, are targeting things like water treatment plants, electrical infrastructure, and oil and natural gas pipelines. The Chinese hackers are working to find and prepared to destroy or degrade the civilian critical infrastructure that keeps us safe and prosperous, right, I said. And let's be clear, cyber threats to our critical infrastructure

represent real world threats to our physical safety. Okay, and okay, here it says the Chinese government has previously denied allegations and hacking efforts. Yes, wow, surprise, they deny absolutely everything. I mean, what do you expect them to do? But anyway, I mean, that's basically it. The FBI director went in front of Congress and is saying like, hey, look, China is going to hack us. Right, so this is definitely

an escalation to be sure of tensions between our two nations. China and the US again another story generally that I've been interested in and following it following on this show. There is like a strange, you know, the Cold War two point zero concept of this great powers competition between mainly China and the US,

and there's this ebb and flow. If you read the news articles on any given day, one day it'll say that, oh, it's inevitable China's got takeover and become the ultimate domineering nation on Earth and the US influence will wane. And then wake up the next day read an article and says the exact opposite, says, oh, China's power is deflating and their economy is in the shambles and there's no way that they could possibly keep up in the

US economy is raging and we've never been better and we're pulling ahead. Good luck catching us China. It's not going to happen now. So you know, like day to day, these stupid things are always changing. Like you can't put too much stock in those sorts of articles, right What you can do is just see them as evidence that there is truly there's an antagonistic relationship between the two countries or two countries to say the least, that's absolutely certain.

And yeah, it's just unsettling to see where this all goes. We've got the technological race at the forefront, if not the direct center of this of who's going to develop AI to a degree where it really draw it becomes this huge driver in national economy. Who's going to be able to do that and reap the benefits of that? Thereby I mean global supremacy there right, GDP goes uh blah blah blah, all that stuff. There's not just that,

but there is. Uh, there's all sorts of other strange geopolitical aspirations and all these conflicts are seeing all across the globe. Now, everybody's worried about World War three, and I want to act like that's irrational, but uh, it probably isn't definitely within the realm of possibility. I'm not gonna sit here and say it's a foregone conclusion, but if it were to occur.

At some point, I was like, yeah, well, everybody's been talking about it, and everybody's uh, we've been mad at each other for so long it's come to my head whatever. And I reading these articles about the cyber threat from China. It was I remember seeing specifically they brought up the Taiwan issue and somebody was saying, yes, look, if China were to attack Taiwan, they obviously they want to weaken the US because we are

going to be there to support Taiwan, or so we've said. You know, exactly what that would look like, we don't know because it hasn't happened. But the US is there on the side of Taiwan in that scenario. And so if China were to be bold and actually push the invasion of Taiwan, you know, presumably they might pull the trigger on a cyber attack on the US to weaken the US so that they would not be able to retaliate. And you know, I'm not some I'm not like a war college graduate

or anything. I don't know like strategically, Oh, what they would do is they would do the cyber attack on the US first, and then they would be diminished. Then they have to wait this certain amount of time to make it look like they're the events they're not coincide, that they're not linked together to give plausible deniability, So they do the attack. America is a reeling for a few weeks and then a few weeks or a month later,

then they invade Taiwan. I don't know like you, but guaranteed, if those two events happened, a cyber attack and the Taiwan thing, you better believe that the US is going to blame China for it. With the giant cyber attack whatever it happens to be, and for that matter, any cyber, large scale cyber attack, hacking, large scale hacking effort. At this point, it just seems like China is the go to one to point the

finger as it's like, well, China did it again. And is this the world that we're going into where we're at constant war with this country on

the other side of the globe. Is this our nineteen eighty four situation where we live in this crazy digitized world where our entire reality is all digital now, and any hiccups, any things that are because legitimately, I'm sure there will be all kinds of cyber events and hacking that continues to go on, and we could just be on a spot like regardless of whether China did it or not, is our government just gonna default to like, well, there

goes China again. See is that going to be the situation. I'm not saying that China won't do these sorts of things, not by a long shot. I definitely, yeah, it makes sense that they probably will, and so and so you get in the sticky situation of if this does occur, what will be the domestic reaction to such an event? Will it be similar to the reactions we saw post nine to eleven where a finger is pointed at

somebody who, I mean, where do you even go with that? Nine to eleven is its own like bag of worms, right, because there was the initial attack and like uh Osama bin Lada and the Taliban blah blah blah blah blah, and then they just kept rolling with that until until they finally wielded around to somehow pointing the finger at a rock and saying like, well, we got to go in there now, we gotta have war with a rock, okay, And they just make the public vaguely believe that a rock

had something to do with nine to eleven when that's not true whatsoever, and just justifies a war that's convenient for the state. Are we going to get ourselves into that mess again? What is the next war that's convenient or that's what's the war that the American establishment wants? The must now, are the American elites aware of the fact that the US is a little bit spread thin

geopolitically at this point and a war anywhere. Again, I'm not the war college graduates, and I'm not a geopolitical expert by any means, So I am not the expert. But from my very amateur opinion, it sure seems like any sort of large scale confrontation militarily internationally for the US now would be a bad idea, and it would I don't know if we're prepared for it.

I don't think. There's been all sorts of stories about how just simple things like munitions for basic military weapons, they can't produce enough of them, So things like that are you know, just a real sort of nuts and bolts issue militarily. But there's more than that. It's just how do you win? Like what situation do we win when we go to war with Iran? We're gonna the absolute mess in Israel. What Israel is doing in Gaza?

Is that going to spark a larger conflict in the Middle East? There Are we going to fight a neighboring country as a result of that, or how might we get involved in that? Absolute horror show. That's one front we've got you Ukraine, Russia and Ukraine were already there. How's that going to develop? And Russia's possible further push into you know, Eastern Europe.

You know, experts are weighing in saying that, Yeah, Russia's ambitions are to move further Ukraine and beyond, Right, should we be worried about that? Do we have the ability to be worried about that? Or do we have the ability to how much are we really able to do? Like that's too And then we're talking about Taiwan, We're talking about this, uh, Southeast Pacific, We're talking about the South China Sea, right, we're talking

about that. I mean, you talk about that and you think, you think about that area of the world, and you should think about World War two, right, and brings back that those lovely memories, especially with the

US involvement in that war was primarily on that front. So there's a lot happening, and yeah, I mean, how prepared are any of these nations, not just the US but also China and also Russia and Israel doing whatever they think they're doing now is anybody able to keep this mess up, I don't know, but nobody seems to be wanting to back down, and tensions continue to rise. World leaders seem to be getting going more off the rails

as each passing day. And in Russia and in China, you've got leaders that have been in power for quite a while and aren't stepping down until they die. That's a problem all in and of itself. I'm sure there's some. I know that there's some in the US that wish they could just rewrite the US Constitution so that they can be emperors for life here in the US, and you've got all sorts of two bit dictators trying to pull that off

at the moment here in the United States. That sounds hyperbolic. I know, it sounds stupid, it sounds idiotic, but it's happening as far as I'm concerned. Whether such efforts actually come to fruition or successful at all, that remains to be seen. But certainly the ambitions there, and we are in quite the mess, aren't we. So I think with that, I want to hit this other article that I think will segue well here. This is from Mecca toornt dot com Merca, Marca, tornt M E r c

A t O r n E T dot com. I don't know how you're supposed to pronounce that, Oh, mercator, mercatoor whatever, it's like, mercenary whatever. Okay, So this article is titled America's elites are living in a bubble and here's the data to prove it, just by Kurt Mahlberg, published January thirtieth. Let's read this because it's about America's elites, so this had ought to be good, So I'll start reading about from this one.

The elite are out of touch is hardly headline news, except when we get some concrete on just how out of touch they are, as we did this month. According to a poll commissioned by free market advocacy group the Committee to Unleash Prosperity and conducted by RMG Research, the top one percent earners in America, many of whom are Ivy League graduates, want to ban cars, ration meet and electricity, limit air travel, and reign in individual freedoms, and

overwhelmingly greater numbers than their peers. They also have very high trust in government and think Joe Biden is doing a fantastic job as President. Just on the side here, I haven't looked into the Committee to Unleash Prosperity or do your RMG research. I don't know that. I will admit they may be biased in some way, or they might have some sort of political persuasion that I

did not look into. That is very possible. But I'm just going to take this and run with it. And I suppose give this poll data the benefit of the down, all right, even though I'm sure all polls and all this stuff are flawed by their nature, We're going to run with it. Okay, there, that's that a way. So I'll keep reading. The people who run America, or at least think they do, live in

a bubble of their own construction. The reports executive summary begins. They've isolated themselves from everyday America's realities to such a degree their views about what is and

what should be happening in this country differ widely from the average Americans. For the purposes of the poll, the elite were defined as people having at least one post graduate degree, earning at least one hundred and fifty thousand dollars annually, and living in a high population density area, and were described as a group with extraordinary political and societal power. The elites represent one percent of the US population, but have an outsized voice and public policy in the United States,

with their views seeming somehow to dominate the national conversation. According to reports authors, So what did the data show? While only twenty percent of Americans say are better off today than they were in the past, seventy four percent of elites say their financial situation has improved. Just twenty eight percent of Americans favored the strict rationing of gas, meat, and electricity to fight climate change,

compared with seventy seven percent of elites. Asked if gas stoves, gas powered cars, air conditioning SUVs, and non essential air travel should be banned, between thirteen to twenty five percent of Americans agreed, depending on the particular item in question. By contrast, fifty three to seventy two percent of elites favored such bands. Okay, let's here. Nearly six and ten elites said there is too much individual freedom in America, double the rate of everyday Americans.

Okay. The reports authors summarize these results confirm what people have long suspected today. There are two Americas. One is wealthier, more highly educated and attended the best schools. They put much more trust in big government to do the right thing, and, by their own admission, benefit from more expansive government policies. They have also been hurt far less by the high inflation of the Biden presidency than those who live from paycheck to paycheck and are in the

lower and middle classes. The Grand Canyon sized chasm between where everyday Americans stand on the state of the country, expanding government power, draconian climate change solutions. Joe Biden's job performance may partly explain the Donald Trump phenomenon and his high approval ratings among working class voters. Oh, here's a good part. I definitely want to read from this. I think I'm going to branch off from this paragraph because this to me kind of stood out. Okay, Ivory Towers

is the heading. Far from being the result of a conspiracy, the report concluded, the views of American elites arise from what might be better described as a fraternity culture, inculcated in the nation's elite universities and reinforced through high frequency insular political chatter. Additionally, unlike most voters, elites can easily access and influence government officials on issues of concern America's closet authoritarians, in other words,

are using their access to power. Okay, so the thing that most popped out to me, they're saying this is far from being the result of a conspiracy. But what they're saying it is instead is something that could be described as fraternity culture, which to me is what is the difference. Isn't that exactly what a conspiracy is? Like does not? The fraternal does not, for internal organization overall, epitomize the workings of conspiracies, like does not?

A conspira is a conspiracy, not a group of self interested people that get together fraternize officially by making a fraternal order of one shape or another and swearing allegiance to themselves and then just going about taking everything and giving each other favors

and just you know, moving upwards together leaving everybody else behind. Is I don't understand what the difference of I don't understand why they're like trying to brush off the conspiracy other than the fact that it's just like a dirty word you can't use anymore. But is that to me, the whole fraternal thing is

fascinating and it very much. I mean, one of the biggest, one of the biggest perennial conspiracies, conspiracy theories is the Freemasons, right, a fraternal order, you could call it the fraternal order, certainly in our in the world that we know now, Ah and so. But but there's how this article is pointing out the university structure and university fraternities I think are very important and don't get a lot of play in conspiracy lore, although they had

ought to. I don't understand how that has been missed all this time. Chuck, are you there is there a call or something, that's what's going on? Yes, I was just trying to let you know quietly that yeah, you had a caller. Okay, okay, let's all right, let's go to the call or. I hope this is uh. I hope this caller is Greek, right. I hope that they were a member of some Greek fraternity and some whatever named the state university, because we can get the

inside story from them. If not, that's fine, we'll just get whatever the caller is saying. So, caller, you are on the air. What's your name and where are you calling from? Jimmy James, I'm calling from the state of Losers, Michigan. Uh yeah, I got it. Uh well, I mean yeah, yeah, fair enough. Jimmy, are you uh your fraternal guy you I'm surely you were the number of a fraternity

at some point. Right well, as far as you're speaking of conspiracy, Chuck could help me at this because he's better with the whole Latin thing. It's see, the way you're describing conspiracy is the way see the CIA set it up in those papers conspiracy theorists. But conspiracy is an actual criminal charge. I mean, just talking to people isn't criminal. It's not necessarily bad

or good. So I would say that these universities are just kind of victims of creating their own culture and believing that everyone else must agree with them. But do you know what I mean, do you get my point that a group of people getting again and yack and that's not a conspiracy. Now if

they're yacking about killing some dude, then yeah, that's a conspiracy. I think what the bridge here is, Okay, you have organizations like the Masons, like the Moose Lodge, like you know whatever, right, you have paternal orders, right, brotherhoods of certain ilk whatever they might be at universities. They could be because of an occupation. They could be because people like to get together allegedly to do good works and also to just kind of network

business wise, et cetera, et cetera in and of themselves. With the exception of the Masons and some of the ones with the you know, more esoteric symbolisms out there, the majority of the time, Jimmy, the contention is that these groups get together and there's one facet of the group, which is just the public front facing, you know, like with the Masons,

they would call on the front porch Masons, right. And on the other end there's the inner circles and the higher echelons, and those people not because they're Masons, but because they're in kind of an elite grouping. They have the opportunity to do these things with a very small number of people who sort of rise to a certain stature, a certain level, a certain inner trust whatever. That's what it is. It's not a matter of one absolutely follows

the other, but one is a great breeding ground for the other. And why do people say that, Because the CIA, with some of these brotherly groups, founded their command structures initially through that right the people they knew the best the people that they were tied to, allegedly for their lives. If one mason asks another mason for help, they can't deny him. You know, this kind of thing, even to use a certain statement, right, I'm sure everybody's heard of it. What is it a what would you do

for a widow's son? Or would you help a widow son? Or whatever that phrase is. It's supposed to be the you gotta help me because I'm one of you sort of inner trust things. Right, So it's not necessarily that you're part of you know, I Beta PI or whatever the hell,

and now you're part of the worldwide conspiracy. It's a matter of because these groups get together, and maybe they're together at the Ivy League places, and maybe they're together because of politics and so on and so forth, and it so happens that you're in an inner brotherhood now with somebody who did rise to become the president, did rise to become the secretary of State, did rise to become the senator, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera. Therefore,

that interconnectivity leads to stuff like this. So, you know, have you ever been part of a brotherhood an inner circle, a specialized group of any kind. Jimmy, Uh, no comment. Yeah, that usually means yeah, that usually means either you have it or you're smartest. I heard. I just heard what you just said, and I would concur with that. I agree. I don't know what the hell that people at the very top are doing of anything. No, And and there you go. You

know, look, we talk all the time about billionaires. How many of us know a billionaire? Though? Really, you know, I mean we know one guy that kind of knows billionaires. Actually you, you and me are and believe it or not, but we don't know them directly. We don't know billionaires, you know. Uh, they have sort of a protected circle around them, and so do people with political power. How many people do you know are in high political offices? Yeah, you know? And

then okay, so go to your extended people. How many people do you know that? No, people in high political offices? Yeah. Yeah, it's it's another world. It's there's it's a world of party. There are I mean, there's special interest groups, there's little clubs, and there's people with outsized influence over government. To be sure, and yeah, it's just a matter of semantics, like well, what are we calling this. They're the elite, They're they're the power brokers. Is this conspiracy? Is it

not? Is it not a conspiracy? It's a fraternal group that they have because they do know each other and they do kind of like have some shared interest in their shared interest being they want to maintain everything that they have, which is ownership of all of the real assets in our country held by a

tiny fraction of the population being them. So of course they're going to look out for each other or to the extent that they are in that peer group, right, So I don't know, wouldn't you almost consider that a group of rogues? Then? I mean, if the top two guys are saying, you know what we do, we want and we're going to help out our bodies in group be too because they do what they want and we all

do what we want. What about that hole, Well, yeah, you're saying rogue, but like it's the establishment because they have the influence over the political superstructure. So it's like what do we call it? Do we call it rogue or we just call it like the power structure. It's like it's what's in charge? What's in charge? Are the ones that own everything right, I mean, can can we not all agree on that? And and it just comes down to again the stupid semantic argument of whether we are allowed

to call this a conspiracy or not, which is quite frankly stupid. It doesn't who cares what we call it? Like, we all see it. And then this article cites like, well, maybe this has something to do with trunk coming power, Like, yeah, I think it probably does, because everybody sees, uh not, everything skewed against them. So anything that pops up as an alternative is going to look good on its face if you

can convince people. But I think we have to recognize the difference between a willful conspiracy and simply the circumstances that are that simply exist and create these things as they go as natural course because of the inertia of the order of things. You know, there is a difference there when there is a willful conspiracy to accomplish something and then there's just you know, a collection of realities that

form together to create a certainty in a circumstance. Those are two different things, you know what I mean, one has the various purposes, the other one is really just business as usual that you don't necessarily recognize because you're not part of the club, you know. And there's kind of a convoluted way that people have mix these things together in you know, conspiracy culture, in old media and whatever else where. They mix these things together and they don't

recognize the separation between the two things. There is the system behaving all by itself as a creature on its own because of the circumstances that are in place, and then there's other people that seek to manipulate things directly, willfully and with nefarious purposes. And these are separated. Even though they may compliment each other, they are separate occurrences. Wouldn't you say so, Aaron? Yeah, I suppose I would. There is a distinction, But there's also an

interplay, to be sure on it. And I mean, what do you call it? When somebody, like an individual is able to their influence over the federal government and they can they can do it with their power, which is their money. They can do that. And if you get these political action committees, it's just like a bunch of money being dumped into what what is the political action? What action are we taking? Like is that a

conspiracy is a political action committee? A conspiracy and a group of conspirators that want to change the nation in okay, you know, name the pack and whatever their mission is is, you know, that's what they're doing. Well in a technical sense for people conspiring to do something. Sure, But conspiracy in and of itself is not nefarious. It's when it's a criminal conspiracy. It's when it's a nefarious conspiracy. See, there needs to be an addition

here are people conspiring? Are they choosing to breathe together and function together in order to accomplish a goal. Yeah, that's human nature and occurs on a daily basis. But conspiracy in and of itself is it always nefarious? No? The Political Action Committee is obviously a group of people getting together and consolidating their resources, pulling things together in order to accomplish an action. Of course, those actions may not be exactly what it is they represent them to be,

et cetera. But nonetheless that's a legal thing. It's not a nefarious thing in and of itself. Right or wrong? Yeah, I suppose though, Yeah, yeah, you're right. You know, so you gotta step

back a little bit. And everything that is a collective effort is not necessarily evil unless it's you know, unless it's results in damage terrible things, undo influence, undoe damage, undo manipulation of a situation where people have leveraged things well beyond what should be given the confines of what is legal, what is acceptable is right. Sure, So philosophically, I'm just saying you have to sift through these things and sort of make some distinctions. Indeed, there are

complementary and things that work together. But on the other hand, there are things that just are because they are. They're not necessarily good or evil. You know, why does the snake bite you because it's evil. No, it's doing it generally out of self defense. And if it's got venom, it uses that because that's what nature gave it. It's not sitting there going I need to kill and I'm going to twist a mustache if I had one and I had fingers to twist it with. It's just there to do its

job. Yeah, well, I mean, yeah, it's I mean, there's even a question of if you're talking about just strictly fraternity, it's just groupings of people getting together self interest. They're just doing business whatever. They're not trying to commit a crime. They're just self interested and by the way, I would go about maybe another ten minutes maximum, so you don't eat an uncle's time. Oh yeah, no, no, I'm not going to do that. I think I'm already sick of hearing myself talk. So this

will be over soon enough, so that this will end soon. I'm not sure if the same can be said for everything else. And you know, for the country that we live in, maybe it might end soon, it

might not. It might be on purpose, it might not. It's certainly I don't know that there are there are groups out there who do want to rest outsized influence over our nation, and they want to do it under the cloak of doing this good or that good, or they're doing it for God, or they're doing it for freedom, they're doing it for Maybe they're doing it for freedom. Maybe they're doing it for democracy. Maybe they're doing it

for the Constitution. Maybe they're doing it for the founding Fathers. Maybe they're doing it for Jesus. Maybe they're doing it for Muhammad, maybe they're doing it for I don't know what. Everybody's got something that they're doing, and it's the country is going to be so much better when they're in control and they're going to be doing it. They're going to make things better by force.

I've seen that seems to be real popular thing these days. We're going to force this or that one way or another, and it's gonna all this force and all this strength and all this reverting back to what this country is always meant to be is going to bring freedom, and then the constitution will be finally operating the way that the founders intended by uh ah, by our decree essentially. And there's all sorts of different little brands of authoritarianism that we

could decide to take on. And I don't know, yeah, I don't know whether to call any of those efforts a conspiracy or just playing. We've gone off the rails and we've been dumbed down to such a degree that any bad idea that pops up will just latch onto because we're just desperate at this point. And one of the great points of agreement, even for Jimmy, who's still on the line, I guarantee you, is that, yeah,

things have kind of gone off the rails. You know. This is one thing, like you notice that there is the common ground is okay, Look, I disagree this. This is the people to blame. This is what's wrong. This is what's actually okay. But here's the problem. Are things messed up or not right? Real simple? And you know what, you can agree with him on that. Absolutely. It's like, no, things are not as they should be. We can do better, you know what

I mean? These two things I think are the universal points of agreement are not as they should be, and we can do better. I don't know, maybe it's just me, yeah, And I think it is a problem when we do start like pointing the fingers and like making enemies and like this person is causing all the problems in this country. We just if we wrap them out and if maybe if we throw them in jail, like that'll fix

everything. So that is something we have to watch out for. And maybe like saying like there's any sort of conspiracy is sort of like jumping to that. And so we do have to keep ourselves in check there that we're not going out like witch hunting everybody, you know, whether or not how much

we believe it's a just fight or not. We have to maintain due process at least everywhere, but everybody seems to be quite sick of that, and we want to institute firing squads for whoever it is that they don't like. So, I don't know. Maybe maybe it'll come to that, I hope. If so, I want to be able to not be around anybody.

If that's possible, it's probably not so. I guess we're all just gonna have to suffer if somebody decides to go ahead with their particular plan of action to just make this country the shining beacon that it was always meant to be.

So we have Aaron Franz progressively working his way to becoming the prepper, the man on the mountain out in the desert there pretty soon with his you know, extremely long beard because you won't buy a big razor anymore, and his survival food and his family all out in the and he already built his electric fence around his compound. Don't forget that. There you go, electric fence around the compound. And just well, I mean back to the elite.

They're the ones that are doing this. They're building their luxury bunkers in New zeal End or wherever else they buy them. They're the ones that are doing this more than anybody else. Well, because they have the money. They're the sending people that got no problem defunding the police. Of course, that they got ten armed guards with them all the time. Right whereas you and me will be sitting there trying to bury a nineteen sixty five bus in

the sand somewhere. In order to create an underground thing, these people will just buy the stuff they need and have it dropped into the ground by contractors. Boom boom boom. They got an underground facility all set for themselves. And that's just because they got a little nervous when Obama got elected. I'm telling you, it's just I mean, paranoia is Paranoia is universal, Like

nobody is immune to it. Everybody has succumbed to it. And so what does that mean, Like if you're not paranoid, you're not alive at this point. Right, Look, I'll help you bury the bus in California, so long as there's three spots there for my family and we can go. I'll help you burying the buses, okay, cause you know I've seen those

compat people don't talk about this on the news or anything. People bury trucks and buses and stuff in order to create I'm not kidding, in order to create these little underground things and then they just add like some tube shoots to it and boom, you have a structure underground, a tube underground, and it's a bus. It works great. You can drive it out there, so it's you know, easy to transport. You know what I'm saying. This is the poor man's underground bunker. Okay, so now I know what

All these large vehicles are being driven out into the desert. For now, I understand that. Yep. Know those ones, the ones are seeing driving the desert. People are living in those ones. Yeah yeah, I mean, well there's many a broke down r V that I see every trip out there, that's for sure. But that's a different story. I'm telling you those nineteen six sets, those nineteens here here, here's the here. The thing is cargo boxes. They're buying those big metalers. Yeah yeah, yeah,

I know. I was. I was facilitating the sale of those shipping containers not too long ago here in Georgia as one of my little side gigs. I know, I know all about it. They're turning them into houses, and they're turning them into houses and trailer parks right now, yep, because they will last a lot longer than the trailers. That that people were getting, and they cost less, way less. You can convert those into a little trailer basically. Yeah, I know, you can make it quite

chic too, if you have the designer's eyes. Oh no, you can make it anything from stylish to completely functional. And you live in a tin box. Baby, it's beautiful. Uh yeah, yeah, pretty cool. These people put stairs on them and everything they get stairs leading up. They put them up on blocks so they're you know, raised up in case the flood comes all that. Yeah, yeah, it's it's not quite Peter Teal level. Let's cut a mountain in New Zealand in half and make a luxury

mansion in the side of it. But it's the next best. Yeah, it's bunker on a budget. I mean, I'm just telling you, you know, like I said, if you if you got the you got some land, so you know, you get them buses going, I'll help you bury him, all right. I'm just telling you. Chipping containers, I know where to get them, no problem. Yeah, they do have an excess of them that they they there's plenty of them to get rid of and so you know, yeah, those didn't get caught up in the supply chain

too. Bad. I can get them, no problem. Cool, I might have to uh, I might have to follow up on that. That'll be our conspiracy. We're already conspiring. See I told you this is true. Good all right? Anyway, Jimmy, well anyway, yeah, Jimmy, Jimmy, let's let's let's end this thing here. This has to stop. We're going to end the show. Jimmy, thank you for calling. Do you want to hang on for the Uncle Show? Uh My, I heard that there's a guest on Uncle and one's supposed to call in. That's

right, that's right. Yeah, I'm sorry, so I have to apologize. You can't. I will say though, if anybody wants to call in using Skype, you can use Skype, so that will happen the next hour. You're right, My apologies sorry about that, but yeah, that that's what's gonna go on. The special guests will be on. But if you want to join via Skype and talk to the guest on the Uncle Show, that is possible. I'm Charles Dottocelly on Skype, and Jimmy, thanks for

calling in. I'm gonna just put you on hold temporarily, and yeah, we're gonna have to heir way. I am here every Thursday, three o'clock to five o'clock Pacific time, right here on the O'Kelly Radio network, which is really one of the most uh. I think it's a gem in the landscape of media today. Please donate, buy a coffee and some smoke from my man, my producer and the owner of this network, chuck today by

donating at a Chili dot com. Keep it alive, Keep it alive, Ochili dot com revelation through coffee, Wall Street Window dot Goal, seward the stock market, Wall Street Window, dott Perhaps you're invested deeply, perhaps you're not in deep enough. Maybe you're thinking about getting started. Wall Street, Windows dot Comdows dot com. Michael Swanson, the brilliant author of the War State, understood these trends professional for many years, and now he gives you

the benefit of his knowledge. Wall Street, Mdow, dot dot Go there, now go there, now go there? Now? Did youse expressed my colorer schools there anyone else who happens to get on the area of Jelly dot com who's not necessarily replied he using dot com or and we are not responsible for any stupidity which might ensue. Thank you nuclear holocaust. You know what

uranium is, right? I think called nuclear weapons and other things. Uncle, Do you remember that time when Benjamin Fulford said that an Asian secret society was going to dispatch ninjas to take down the Illuminati? Oh that's interesting, Yeah in the platoon. Yeah? Did that ever work out too good? No? It didn't, did it? But here on o'ceelly dot com radio network, things work out a bit better, don't they? Much better? It is clear and understanding about the programs, the programs, how much clear

getting live people into it. They really have a good conversation going much better, much better scene. I say, forget Benjamin Fulford and his ninjas and listen to the ocelly dot com Radio Network. I agree, it's straight to the point, straight talk, and I like that idea dot com dot com radio network revelation through conversation. Honey horny, morny horny, Horny, horny

horny. This is a money se podcast. Cobred cobrat co. Wait here we pick up your hand, your cellphones and hi me in listen to uncle the podcast. Watch out. If you're sitting down for this or if you're standing up the better, got ready for this? Because it's gonna hit the air air drums. Uncle the podcast. You are listening to Uncle the broadcast. My name is Eron. I'm the nephew of law. Here means the start of the show of Hello, lades and gentlemen. Three and twenty two.

We are on and we excellence have a special guests to night. It's con Condrey Condrey the Ponzide Zone. This is a very interesting guess and I want you all to listen. Do you ski listen very closely to this man? Okay, here yourn he and oh boy, Hi everyone, Nigel Saunders here, that's it. Yes, it's great to have you man. You have a very exciting YouTube channel. Yeah, then thank you for inviting me. It's an honor to be on your show. Yeah. Uh. Uncle

Nigel is a expert of sorts the art of bone side bone. I'm very interesting in the punchize system. Uh one now is to put it together. What I like to him is how you get him to put on and try to put it together. And I want side chick here to understand to listen to you to it. You want to know how to put a bon site together or how it grows up and how to get to put it sort of what's the first step in say, it's the first step. Well, the first step you need to get a tree. And there's a lot of different

places you can get your tree from. You can grow them from seeds, you can snip a cutting off one and root it. You can buy them from nursery stores and then make them into BoNT sie, or you can dig them up from your garden or the wild and make the tree into a bone. I also so bony is a it's an art form of miniaturizing a tree. And they can grow in any size. You can have a bone side that's a couple of inches tall to one that's three or four feet tall or

even larger. So yeah, you can get a tree from anywhere. And then the rest is just all techniques to miniaturize them small trees. Uncle, it's just that simple. Yeah, that's simple. That's simple to grow them and to just watch how they grow. Is might seem to be light because I soon don't like those because they I can stand here in my speed and just watch it glow. That that's only thinking on these sides, because that takes the patience is waiting for them to grow, because you don't want to

be clipping them all the time. You've got to let them grow and then get healthy, and then you pun them back. And you can do it for pretty well any kind of plant. I've seen people bone side marijuana plants and a fantastic looking tree. Yeah that's nice. Yeah. Actually, Nigel, I first found you on YouTube because I had a firestick succulent and my idea was yeah, yeah, I was like, I want to bonce side this. I want to see if anybody's done it and see what techniques they've

done. So I type that in fire stick succulent bone size and one of your videos popped up. I watched it. Okay, do you remember that one? I do. It's one of my It was one of my most hated trees. It did not respond well to trimming, and I eventually it eventually died and I wasn't too sad to lose it, actually, because it was very frustrating. Every time I prune it, it would like instead of the branch subdividing and getting better looking, at it just got worse looking.

And it was just a struggle. And I if you leave them alone, they grow fantastic, but as soon as you start pruning them, they start reacting funny, and I never had any luck with it. And it could be the climate too. I'm up here in Canada and it's very cold and we have very long winters, and it's not an ideal environment for growing succulents. I believe that's it. I think hit it because of the glow. You got to glow it in the area. We have a few of them

the ground here, so that's probably you're lucky. Yeah. Yeah. The easiest trees to grow are, like you're native trees to your area because you know it's the ideal climate for them. But you know you can't have all native trees. It's nice to dabble in exotic trees from all over the world. That's what I try and do. I have trees from I think every continent on the planet Earth, and it's nice to have that kind of variety. I'm sort of, I guess half a bonseye enthusiast and the other half

of me is a tree collector. I like collecting different species, and so I have about three hundred trees on the go. Wow, and not all of them are like most of them are like seedlings and stuff that are you know, three to five years old, but I have you know, I have a selection of ones that I put in shows in that and they're slowly maturing. A bone side tends to get with the proper carre, it can get better and better every year. And there's not many things in life that

do that. You think, when you buy a car, it's it's in its best shape when you buy it off the lot, and then it slowly degrades over the years. The other thing that maybe wine increases in quality with time, or whiskey or something like that, but not many other things in life get better and better the older they get. So bonsie is one of those hobbies where you know, the more you work on your trees and the

older your trees get, the better and better they can. Look. There, you go, that's what That's what kind of keeps me fascinated with the hobby is that every year you see the changes in your trees and they just you just sometimes you just stand back and admire them and go, wow, it's really coming a long way from when it started. That's what I do. I look at it like just like you say, just like that,

yeah, and just watch it. That's what doesn't mean yeah. There's no point, you know, growing these beautiful trees if you don't stop and admire them every now and then, is there. Yeah? No, No, that's a very relaxing, meditative thing. Yeah, Nigel. What is the name of your YouTube channel, Nigel? Yes, Oh, my YouTube channel is called the Bone Size Zone and I started it in twenty fourteen, so it is now. I'm now entering my eleventh year on YouTube, which is

gone by in a flash. It's hard to believe. I've been a YouTuber for ten years and it started out just I was the club president of our Bone Size Club and I thought people might be interested in posting videos of their trees in that so I started a channel for the club, and no one else except me made any videos, so I decided I'd just make it my

own channel. And the reason I started it was there was very few channels on YouTube that showed the same tree over and over, showing its progression over the years, and I wanted to show, you know, taking something that doesn't look that good, and then hopefully, you know, by the time I'm really old, that you'll be able to trace this tree back from where it started to this magnificent tree in the end, so you can see all

the steps I took to get the tree to where it was. And it's the designs to get to my opinion on these trees or the designs how they grow and how they fit in the ground and goog out of that right. For example, excuse me for the example the movie one with the talking about karate, Well, yes, it has that the gun greams a tree out of the wild, painting out, put it in the bag, gives it to him, and the fellow that makes him glows them, and and that

that appeals to me. That movie has gotten a lot of people interested in BONSI. That's what got me dot the karate kids. Yeah got me, that's what That's what plew me to that tree and that that's what got me started. And say, you know what. Another weird thing is that that made it popular in the Northeast for a little while, is that Howard Stern had some sort of Boneseye sponsor early on when he was only on one radio station in New York. Oh really, yeah, I didn't know that.

I didn't. I can't remember which which one it was, Like the name of the sponsor eludes me right now. But like when I would say like thirteen or so. I remember that he had a sponsor, and I'm going, what and the hell is a pone side tree? Yeah? Like I had no idea, and uh like that was where I first got introduced to it, and then I and then I saw, like everybody else that Karate kid say, you know where meet Miyagi tries to put his tree on the

side of the mountain and the whole you know storyline. You know, but yeah, I mean, you know, yeah, so good. I have a lot of trees that I you know, I groll them in my front garden when they're starting from seeds, and then like ten years later, you dig them up and you start working on them more and more, and eventually they turn into really cool trees and you can style them any way you want.

You can have a you know, a tree that looks like it's been growing in the mountains and it's had avalanches falling on it and the wind blowing it, and or you can have a very peaceful tree, like one that would grow in the middle of a field, where you can create forests and landscapes. It's it's you can use a lot of imagination when you shape and grow your trees and forests. It's a kind of a cool hobby. I

think we have something you can do until you become very very old. Like you know, there's people in their nineties that are still active in the hobby and they can take care of their trees. What we're thinking you're doing in the fun area, I think we're to try to put one or two of those in the front area. Busie in the front area, not not by with not by where they're not allowed to have them. I mean, I mean back back in the front area. Well, I like to put some

of those into that spot that you were told and mixing. Yeah, there's some Actually, if we pull some plants out of our yard, there's a couple that have been growing to have a nice thick base that I could actually turn into a bunk side by pulling them out of the landscape. Yeah. Well, if you I'm kind of exit about that. I did to do

that, and just to have them to sit there. We can build it up and you just put one or two there, set it up there like that that way, because I'm sitting in the front line and I can watch these trees and that'd be a surprise for me to list watch it. I know what you guys in. We're in southern California, California, Okay, okay, yeah, yeah, that's that's why we had. Yeah, we had to luck with the firestick, like I was saying. And in fact, I'll gloat a little. I think I've come up with a pretty cool

technique to bone side the fire stick that I've been working on. Yeah, I've been working on it for a few years. I'm kind of proud of it. Cool. So one of these days off to I haven't really shown any pictures online, but one of these days I'm going to. I want to get to like a real nice state. I can check what out I want to be. Uh. I'll be proud of it, and and we'll just share a picture. Someday. I'd like to look at them. I will. Maybe they'll inspire me to try again. I still have one on

the go. I haven't totally given up on them. I still have one growing. But yeah. So one of the easiest trees to work with is like a fcus or something. You can buy them in the grocery stores and they're inexpensive and they can grow indoors. They like to be outdoors in the summer and the warmer weather. But they're they're a very easy tree to grow and hard to kill, so good for beginners. Yeah, but there, there you go. There's what you got to do, the teaching something.

Yeah, you like that. It's funny. In my YouTube channel, I have a lot of subscribers, and most of the time it's just me working away in my backyard with the camera talking to myself, and it's and I'm not really I'm not aware of the audience other than seeing a number of you know, viewers on your videos. And it wasn't until I went to the US National bone S I showed this summer that I realized how many people knew

me. It was really bizarre. Uh. We were pulling up to the venue and there's like this big lineup of people trying to get into the show, and there's like people pointing at me, And then we went to the back of the law and then all these people were coming getting pictures with me and talking to me, And it was really strange because I'm I'm not used to sort of being I don't like to use the word famous, but well known. I guess it was quite a surprise for me because I'm not exposed

to that, so you'll be surprise. You'll be surprised when you start putting something on the YouTube thing like you're doing. I mean, they'll come to you. You don't have to go to them now, they'll come to you. I see something like that, people interested. I had a very famous person, Peter Chan from the United Kingdom, who visited me this summer in my backyard. And when I got into Bonside like thirty two years ago, one of the first books I bought was by Peter Chan, and to have

him actually standing on my backyard was just absolutely surreal. It was like an honor and it was just I couldn't believe that Peter Chan was in my backyard like someone. He's published like twelve books on the subject, and he's world famous, and it was just amazing that he I got to meet him. Yeah, that's pretty exciting. I'd say that your story is definitely one of those shining examples of look. YouTube and the internet with its ability for people

to just share whatever creative outlet they have with other people. Is this exciting opportunity now right? It connects you with a lot of people. Now, there is a downside to YouTube. I meant there's a certain percentage of negative comments that you might get like that, you get the odd person who's non interesting. Maybe not maybe you're not the most stable person in the world. Sometimes they're but anyway, but I would say ninety nine percent of you know,

YouTube is very positive and it's I enjoy it. I think you have to enjoy both bones eye and making videos because you know, half the work of YouTube is video editing and filming, and and if you don't like the process of making videos, you're not going to last long on YouTube. You have to. Yeah, now kind of half and half. Had you done any editing before this, Nigel, or do you start because of the channel? I assume right, Yeah, I started editing because of the channel.

I've done some like when I was young, my favorite thing to do is build models and then film them with a Super eight camera, like doing special effects and stuff. And so I had, you know, a little bit of video or not video experience, but filming experience, but not a lot. So it was all new to me when I started my YouTube channel, and I think I'm still learning. I don't think you ever stop. And it's always YouTube is a there's always it's getting the content out versus the quality.

Like if you wanted to make like a movie quality video, it would probably take you two weeks to make one ten minute video of like every shots beautiful and planned out. So you've got to balance, you know, getting the work done and the videos out there versus the quality. And somewhere in there is a nice balance where the quality is you know, pleasing to watch and you know, not too boring and not too fast paced. And I

try and and I try not on my channel. I try not to preach like some people start a video and say, this is how you prune a fcus. And my approach is just here's how I'm going to prune the fcus, and you can watch me prune it. And if I have any useful tips, I'll include them. But I'm not the authority on pruning a fycus. You know, I don't try and be the person who has all the answers, because you know, I'm learning to even after thirty years, I'm

still learning the bones eye and and yeah. So that's my approach. And I always try and all my trees, I try and show pictures of the same species of tree in nature or in parks or wherever, and I try and make my bolts eye representative representative of that species of trees. So I want my maple trees looking like maple trees and nature, and I want my pine trees to look like pine trees in nature. And you know, so I try and show photos of the tree in its natural setting and then showing

what my goal is for my little miniature version of that tree. Got it now? Back? I know? With the editing thing, do you do you with video editing and even maybe with YouTube in the particulars of YouTube, do you see any parallels between that and the process that is bon saill like making a bon side tree? Is there any similarities to like the process of editing or or maybe engaging with the audience or anything like that. Yeah,

it's it's always a balance. Like some people say this video is too long, and then the next person will say, oh, it's too short. You get some people who like the long form content, and then you get other people who want to watch like a three minute video on the before and after they don't care about what you're doing. And somewhere in there again there's a balance. So I make some videos longer and more detailed than some videos

are shorter, and I don't necessarily do it for the audience. It's it's for my sanity that I I hate doing the same thing over and over, and I think most people do. It gets repetitious. So you start to look for how can I make this video in a new way. I want to get different camera angles, or I want to get out in nature and so the trees me walking around them or something like that. You know, I hate to get into a formula where you're doing the same thing over and

over it because it would drive you crazy. It just becomes like a job then, and I would hate to do that. I've never thought of YouTube as a job. And you know, if it starts to become feeling like

a job, then you just take some time off. And after about three or four days, you realize that this urge to make a video starts building up in you and it just I don't know what it is, but it's like photographers, they have to go out and photograph things, and you know, maybe you guys, you there's this something in you that says, let's go talk to someone and find out what they're like. And it's something that's

just part of your nature. I guess is that. I just feel like maybe it's because I've been doing YouTube for so long it's become like a part of my lifestyle. Like I don't think I could prune a tree without talking about what I'm doing, and that I've never tried to prune a tree in silence and not video, and I haven't done that for Yeah, it sounds like broadcasting, right. Oh no, that that's what you're doing is a pump the thing you're doing talking about it because some people, like you say,

don't even know how to do it. I mean it has that ken is something to watch. That's why I'm thinking about that's my tuful. That's helpful having somebody to understand, well, he's actually doing something about a pond pond's eye and somebody, well I like to listen. Yeah, and I find most other Bone size channels they show you pruning the tree, but they don't explain what their goal is for the tree, what their intended style is, and why they're doing this pruning. They kind of miss that step.

They kind of just show you pruning the tree and they don't explain, you know, why they're pruning that branch off or why they're shaping it like this, and I think that's important is to have goals in mind when you're growing

your trees. Yeah. I mean that's so much a bone size, Like that internal dialogue you're having with your self and again that meditation and that reflection and you're just kind of I guess you're doing that and filming it and I guess, yeah, that's the That's what sets you apart, is like the more full version of what bone sye is is what you're attempting to do.

Like, there's two different kind of people in bonsi. One that look at bonsai as a product, like to get an end product, and then there's the other type of person who engrows, who enjoys the process of growing your tree. And I enjoy the process of bonesie. That's why I have seedlings and I go everything kind of from scratch because I enjoy that process watching something

go from something insignificant to eventually immature tree. Yeah. And I don't think of it as you know, my goal is to get the tree to look like this in ten years or anything like that. I just I try and do what's best for the quality of the tree and just enjoy every day working on your trees and stuff. And if in the end you get a really cool looking tree, that's your bonus. That's just a bonus. You've got to enjoy the doing it, not just the end result. They're never finished.

They're never finished. Like you can work on a tree for forty years and then someone when you die, someone else will take it over and maybe grow it for another forty years, and and they're always changing. It's like a painting that you never finish. It's something you work on your whole life. And yeah, it's it is a piece of it's a it's a piece of art. But it's also a life form. You have to remember that that too, that's yeah, and it's a growing life form. It's like

you can't the trees never stay the same. Like even if you grow what you think is like the perfect tree, it's not going to stay the perfect tree. It's going to go out of shape and out of proportion. And so you have to trim the challenge. Yeah, that you gotta trim them. I agree that you have to trim them to get him, well you want him. You saw that video of Nigel doing that, the trimming. He's doing all the pointing, right, Uncle, that Yeah, that was

a cool video. Yeah, that was a nice video. I'm watching just trimming it away that. Yeah, you're the roots and the top of the tree and yeah, and you're always looking at the style and and you have to do it at the right time and the right when the tree is healthy and growing. And you know, there's there's a lot of factors. I tell people, you know, the first five years of bone siye, you're not really training the trees. You're training yourself to take care of the trees.

Because there's a steep learning curve when you first get into it. You're going to probably kill a lot of trees at first because you just you're just not aware of what kind of care they take and what it takes to keep

them alive and healthy. That's exactly my point. Yeah, especially like I mean, you're it's not a completely unnatural thing you're doing, but you're definitely you know, where a tree in nature is growing in the ground, where it has this unlimited amount of well, I mean, you know, relatively unlimited amount of dirt underneath it. This isn't the definition of bone size something like planting in a shallow pot? Is that the definition? Am I right?

Yeah? It's basically a tray planting. It doesn't specify what kind of plant, it doesn't specify what the tray looks like. It's a very general term, and it's a Japanese term. I think that Chinese word is pensi, which means the same thing. So it originated in China, and then the Japanese adopted it, and they kind of developed their own style, and the Chinese have their own style, and now it's spreading all over the world. And I hoping that, you know, we get a style of North

America, which I think is developing. You get North American trees, north American potters, and you get you know, displays in that when they're at shows, like when I went to the US National Bone Size Show, you see displays in that that you wouldn't see in Japan. But we're very interesting and very North American, like you know, yeah, very interesting pot stand, tree combination style and everything. And I think, I think that's what

you want. I think, you know, I want. I would like to see every region of the world have their own kind of bone sized style, like I know in Australia they have sort of a style of tree that they like in Africa, South Africa. They have a certain style that they develop, and yeah, it's it's like you know, you don't if you go to a mall, you don't want every mall to have the exact same stores in it. You want to see variety. And same with bonsai.

I think, you know, you have to have a certain number of native trees in your collection that represent your area that you live in. And then I think that becomes like for me, Canadian bonsai and for you guys American bonsai. And there's different regions of America. I mean Florida has their ficus and their tropical trees growing, and California it's famous for junipers, And I wonder in Flawda if they do a bonsai in a shape of their kind.

So I thinks there because you know, there's a lot of Ficus in nature there, and yeah, yeah, they have their Florida's famous world famous for their Ficus bone sie. They have some of the best, you know, trees in the world for Ficus that and like Taiwan they're they're famous for ficus

too, and Vietnam all these tropical countries areas. Yeah, but yeah, well, you know, I've got a ton of variety of trees on the go, and I really enjoyed all the different varieties and learning about the trees and looking them up to see what they look like in nature, and then trying to grow them. No, yeah, yeah, no, it's it's fun. I love growing plants just generally, but only recently started doing the bone side thing at all. But it's definitely cool. I enjoy it.

What about I mean back to the YouTube aspect of the don't size zone. Have you ever thought about going or have you or have you ever thought of going to one of these? Like I think they have like conferences and stuff where YouTube ers like go and like they meet together. I have have you ever thought about doing one of those things or have you done one of those? I've never heard of one. They used to have in Toronto, Canada,

which is about an hour and a half drive for me away. They used to have one of those YouTube studios where anyone could go in and use their studio to make a video, but they closed that down years ago. I don't think those things. I don't know if they exist in the United States, but there's none in Canada anymore. And I haven't heard of any YouTube conferences or any get togethers or anything like that. Yeah, yeah, they definitely have had them. I'm not sure if I've heard of the studio.

What you're describing reminds me of like cable access, but instead of putting your material on a cable access channel's posted to YouTube. I suppose. Yeah, yeah, they gave like they had all these studios and they had like all the good sound and lights and people. Would you would just book your appointment and then you would go down on your day in time and you could

make a video in this professional studio. I never did it, but because you know, I do all my stuff in the greenhouse or outdoors, but that's the first place to do them. Do you go out to like the forest or somewhere out in nature to collect specimens? Do you ever do that?

Thank you we have. I don't. I'm not a big fan of collecting from nature unless the trees are going to be destroyed or something anyway, Like I I personally, it's not for me, like some of these people that climb up to the top of a mountain and then they find this stunted tree and they dig it up and it's going to be like four or five hundred years old. I think when a plank gets that old and it's alive, that it should just be left alone for others to appreciate if they climb

the same mountain. I think the whole goal of bones I or my goal anyway, is to try and grow a tree that looks like that tree that's up growing on the mountain, not to actually collect that tree. I would rather, you know, start with a juniper from a nursery and then develop that to look like that tree. But I think, you know, there's exceptions, like if there's a bunch of trees and it's going to be bulldozed or something, Yeah, it's nice to go in and save the trees and

collect them. I don't really it doesn't agree with me. People like there's professional collectors who just they just get permission to go in people's land and they collect all these old trees or climbing mountains and collecting them, and that's not my thing. I think the people who you know, buy those kind of trees are again after the product they want, like the instant, old, bone side looking tree. They're not growing that tree and there's nothing wrong with

that. They're like there's some people who are bone side collectors, and they don't work on their own trees. They just have them in the backyard and they look at them and they have a professional come in and take care of them. And that's very common in Japan actually, is that people have a bone size collection in the backyard and then a professional will come in and water

them and take care of them. It's almost like a gardener. But yeah, but for me, like I said, the process to the month side that I enjoy the most is the actual development, the day to day work growing them, taking care of them and watching them slowly get better over the years. Yeah, no, hurry to get like a finished looking bone side that now now I can relate and and I understand, Nigel, I know that. I mean one of my favorite things to do is just go outside

and just stare at plants and sometimes yeah, that's I love it. It's one of my favorite things just look and look. And I do it with the landscape because I find I look at each individual plant, I think of like what it is, but where it will be in the future and what it could be and how if I maybe trimmed it or pernto a certain way, or if I even moved it or if I put another plant in with the grouping. This isn't even bone side, this is just plants. But

both sides the same thing. You have one like okay, if I if I leave this tree in the ground for a cup years, then I pull it out, will be a good place where I can start, you know, like doing bone side techniques to it and stuff like that. Like I love it. It's a lot of fun. Yeah yeah, yeah, Well I would say, you know, you'll enjoy bones I there's people who bonsie

is a competition. There's people who grow their trees just to try and win best in show at the bone Size show and stuff, and that's their goal. They don't really enjoy bone side. They just they have a lot of money and they buy the best trees and they show them. And so there's a lot of aspects to the hobby. And I try and show what someone

can do in their backyard. Like I would say, I'm a I'm I'm a professional in the sense that I make some money off of YouTube, so I guess I would be called a both side professional, but I'm I'm a hobbyist at heart. Like I I do bone side as a hobby. It's not but I never set out to make it a career on YouTube. I'm actually I never expected by channel to grow anywhere close to where it is.

I you know, I was amazed when it broke ten thousand subscribers. I was like, Wow, there's ten thousand people who actually subscribe to my channel. It's because they like the design. And that's my thinking too. Liking the design, liking something goes a little put further, you know, Yeah, and you're at makes the difference. I watch. I watch all kinds of YouTube channels. I watched these model making channels where you know, people

assemble these scale models, and I'm fascinated by that. Even though I don't do any model making anymore, I still like watching someone who's good at what they do, doing what they like doing. And I think that's a lot of YouTube is that you get to see these people who maybe have obscure hobbies and they're good at what they do and they enjoy doing it, and it shows in their video that it's enjoyable watching these videos because the person really likes

what they're doing and their enthusiasm kind of rubs off on you. Yeah, that's what it does mean, that's what it does mean when I see him doing one and I just say, watch him how he builds it and how it goes, you know, yeah, yeah like that. Yeah, that's yeah, yeah yeah yeah. So Nigel, it's it's been great to have you here. I know it's late over where you're at that did you need to get going soon? I can stay as long as you want. I'm I'm available. Okay, Well, don't go to bed till late. I'm

usually edited videos late at night night. That's funny, that's cool. Half my time I spend. I usually I start videoing around ten or eleven in the morning, and then I usually finish up by like three or four in the afternoon, and then I'll eat and then i'll after supper, I'll edit video, edit the video, and then you have to process it into one video, and then you have to upload it onto YouTube and then add all

the titles and thumbnails. And it's usually I probably spend at least eight to ten hours a day on YouTube. And then and then you know, I get maybe thirty or forty dollars per video if it's doing well. So that's my life. It's a lot of work, and I don't get a lot of money for it kind of like, thank goodness, I'm like retired. Basically, well, Uncle dandel Life and Nigel Saunders. What do you think that's pretty interesting? Yeah, that's pretty interesting though. So what I'm saying

is this YouTube channel is a labor of love. It's not it's not making me big money or anything like that. That's my uncle uncle. He's not just similar to us. No, No, he's doing he's doing what we sort of do. But what we get on I do a little extra stuff like these videos on Saturdays to watch and we bring him into the shop and let people look at him, and I have my caught in it and put somebody to watch it. We watch all vhs DH take yeah, watch and

we listen them on Saturdays. So that's if you interested listen to those and you have a go to one of those, look for that and you see my client in them, make a party out of it. Yeah them cool? Yeah Yeah, So yeah, I'm sure I'm sure that Nigel's subscribers will find that interesting. The story of like, well, yeah, they're waking up making the video, editing and that night because nobody gets to see that. All you get to a finished product, right, You're like, oh,

yeah, there's a video. You don't realize how I got there. Yeah, well, during the pandemic, I was making videos fairly regularly, and then I got I got a comment from someone who said they were working in the hospital with COVID victims or COVID people, and they said, I just love coming home at night and I'm so pumped up. I'm working like

a twelve hour shift that I need to relax. So I put one of your videos on and they just thank me for making them, and I kind of that kind of inspired me to make kind of a video every day. So I was making a video every day for like I think four months or maybe even more, without skipping any days. And and then I get I get like people in the US Army who watched me over and like they were watching me over in Iraq. Oh, and and it just surprised me.

I've never ever considered that people in the US Army would be watching both side videos over in a foreign country. And it's kind of surprised me. It's it's it's real. It's strange. Having like a worldwide audience is very bizarre for mexpected. It's the divining relack agent of the person that likes to watch states. And that's what you do. You do those things on, like

you say, and and it relaxes the who doesn't like that? Who doesn't like anybody like they want to want to relax, so they just pop that on and and and just see that tune in the size. That's true. I mean, you know, some channels on YouTube aren't relaxing, Like I I've watched some that you can just tell the person's kind of jumpy and they that's you get kind of anxious watching them. Yell's that people are. That's the people relaxing. You gotta pick them so like you gotta like pick them

out like this and like that. There's that's like the styles, style, presentation, styles for making online videos without a doubt. That's what we're getting to what I'm trying to understand. Some of them definitely are fast paced. They borrow editing techniques from you know, you could say sources like you know, MTV and things like that. They can't they're born out of that. The speed clips like rapid rapid edits and and like that like that. Yeah.

Yeah, and it can be okay to watch occasionally, but I wouldn't want to watch every video the same style like that. You know, it's not the bun size one. That's not what you get. You know what I was, you know, to watch you know what I'm wondering. You know a lot of people that have because you have a large amount of videos on your channel. I'm looking at your channel and I put it in the

chatroom at Chilli dot com. Guys, So if you want to go and check it out yourselves, go ahead, and we'll put a link out there and everything for you know, new people. But I mean, you got like two hundred thousand subscribers, you got you know, a huge over a thousand videos. Sorry, go ahead, Yeah, I think I made Last year, I made two hundred and two hundred and seventy videos, so you

know, not every day, but certainly a large quantity each year. Well what I was doing is yeah, well look I think I have over one thousand, five hundred videos. Now, yeah, I know it's well over

a thousand. But the thing is that when when a YouTube channel gets to that sort of a point where it's got that long of a history and everything, right, some of them turn around and put out like it's almost like a live stream that constantly reruns their old videos right where it's almost like tuning into an old school TV channel, but it's on YouTube and it's just running your old stuff, say right, and it might be stuff that people might

not choose to run themselves. Instead of them running video to video from an algorithm, you have a stream that continues to go. Have you ever thought about doing that? Because your stuff reminds me of like why it is we keep the radio station because we don't have anything. We don't have a huge

amount of listeners for the online radio station. But there are some steady people that will tell me, like, this is like what I listened to, you know, in the middle of the night, and it's just whatever you're rerunning and all that kind of stuff. And I rerun new stuff, and for the holidays, I do special things outside of us, you know, broadcasting the podcast as we're making them. We rerun stuffy. So I was just curious, you know, and some people, it's only a small group

of people are like I depend on your radio station, you know. So I was wondering if you thought about maybe putting your old stuff through like a continuous playlist almost that's like a twenty four to seven playlist where you could rotate things. You ever thought about doing that? Well, I have I have playlists set up for each year so you can watch. You can click on a playlist for season eight, for instance, and you can watch all the

videos made in that season. Or you can click on the playlist for each individual tree and you can follow it from the last ten years to wherever it is now. So I organize my channel like that. So I have a lot of playlists for each species of tree. Oh yeah, what they learn about, but this is you can watch it from when I got it to where it is now. And some of them have been on the channel for

ten years. But what I was thinking of my oldest a selective a selective grouping of stuff that runs almost like a TV channel where you know you're not in control. Oh I see, yeah, like like some of these channels on TV where they just play stuff NonStop. Kind of yeah, there's people on YouTube that are doing that now, like not just using the playlist right where they're just tuning into the streams. And some of these older channels I

notice have star. I'm just thinking it's another way that you know, if you have viewers there, they still give you the commercial revenue. You know, I've never done any streaming. I've never done any live streams or anything. And I don't know. I don't do the YouTube shorts, Okay, I just so you're not using like all the stuff then you're you're just going for the like here's my videos, here's my playlist, and yeah, okay. I see a lot of people ask me, you know, why aren't

I on Facebook? And why are I on Twitter and Instagram and that? And it would drive you crazy. I can I can barely handle doing YouTube. It's like when I post a video, I'll get all these comments and I try and answer them, but I just can't. It's well, have you ever thought about many? Yeah, have you ever thought about maybe turning it into a Roku channel or something too, like, you know, one of these other things where it's like part of a because there are these little

niche channels on Roku by the way that do stuff like this. Like I know there's something on there that's like for like dollar Store crafting. Somebody showed me a channel on Roku. Dollar you know, go to the dollar store, you pick up stuff and you can make you know, cool, you know, decorations and gifts and things out of stuff from the dollar store, right, So it's like the cheap crafter. Yeah. And there's literally a channel devoted to that on Roku. Really. Yeah, and I'm like,

I didn't know about that. Yeah, it's the first I've heard of it. Well, that's why I was thinking of it, is that this kind of thing would be intricate enough, interesting enough and cool enough to be its own Roku channel, you know. Yeah, yeah, I don't know, just my random thought possibility for the future. I'm sure, you know,

I'm sure YouTube won't last forever. I think. Yeah, it's it's it's changing YouTube, you know, it's going definitely more for commercial content rather than yeah, the small creator it's well right, right, right, No, I understand. And again I had a YouTube channel for you know, I don't know how many years. Let me see, twenty eight to twenty twenty two. I guess it was what twelve fourteen years? Uh, you know,

wow, that's that's amazing. Yeah. I mean they took it away because I was controversial, you know, but it was because their community standards change, not because of me. Really, it was, you know, they started flagging out for stuff I put up there eight years ago. For no reason things like that, but it was, uh, you know, it was an interesting You're very lucky actually that my topic of bonsye is very

there's nothing controversial about it. Yeah, nobody's gonna take it. Really yeah, nobody's gonna take it advert right, I'm saying, really interesting it is, I mean, and it's there. I could watch it almost all day and it's watching And I'm thinking if it's custom made for advertisers too, because I mean, the home Depot could advertise with you. You know, the big corporate sponsors could drop in on you because they sell plants at home Depot.

It's the logic is that simple, right, And if you're into this hobby, you definitely want to go buy your stuff. Now, maybe you don't want to buy it at home depot, but local plant nurseries, uh, you know, any of these kind of things could all drop in there. And I'm thinking of myself as long friendly, as long as I don't start talking about, you know, events in the world, and that I'll be pretty safe with my YouTube channel. I think, don't don't don't sculpting

your trees in the shop of Donald Trump, and you'll be fine. Yeah, yeah, don't know. Me that guy. Politics. Politics, don't don't go near that guy. I mean, it can't be medical. It can't be medical disinformation. You can't do Yeah, you can't do medical dis guys. Donald Trump. Oh no, no, no, not me, no, not sense not since he happened to do what he did in the in the White House. Since that happened, dropped this case. I think, I think you shouldn't even be running scene. I think was okay with

him being on the Apprentice. That was all like plant planted the FBI and that that we're leading that insurrection, and then they were trying to get people to go into the Capitol building and see what you get set up by the Feds. So so you never have political side talk during your Bonseye demonstrations. Yeah, yeah, no, it just came up. No, no, no, it's okay. I was just the different side of Nigel Saunders that people be interested if you like, Oh I didn't. It's interesting, you

know, like Nigel'll get banned on YouTube for Canada. We get a different view of the US politics than I think people in the the United States kept because we're kind of looking at it from the outside, not from within. Oh I see how are you looking at it a different way? And by the way, Nigel, we never did have those YouTube studios here in America.

No, we never had that here. That that's oh really okay, Yeah, I don't remember hearing about that even yeah, yeah, because I remember, I know there was one in New York City, briefly, one in Toronto. Yeah, briefly, there was one in New York. And there was one in the U in the headquarter building in California briefly, but they quickly got rid of it. In America, it was not something else,

Okay. Yeah, I don't know why. I don't know the whole reasoning behind it, but I do know that it persisted in Canada for a while and I thought it was the coolest thing. That's where I heard of it. Maybe they maybe they don't want to encourage the small content creator. They would rather like That's true, big corporate companies, right starting YouTube channels

like the news stations. That's the other thing is you started long ago enough that quite honestly, you know, ABC, NBC they didn't have YouTube channels when you started. Where did YouTube come from? They say they used to make fun of such things, right, you remember big radio people calling podcasters losers and things like that. Now they are rushing to get them now they

all have podcasts, but yeah, it's not just a podcast. When I started YouTube, if a channel had a million subscribers, it was huge, right, But now a million subscribers is like not a big deal anymore. No, Yeah, that thirty dollars. It was the thirty dollars you were talking about making off of a video. I could do that off of five or six thousand subscribers back in the day. Yeah, yeah, and it was it was like that, and yeah, if you had a million,

that was great. But then they started having these people doing these weird videos. See that's the thing. People did all kinds of weird, experimental things on YouTube. It was kind of interesting and the corporate thing wasn't involved when you got there. So, you know, Fox News didn't have a YouTube channel. They were laughing at YouTube. YouTube was like idiots making their own videos. Ha ha. Yeah, you know, it was interesting. It

was different than television, and now it's just becoming television now. Well it literally has it literally has YouTube TV now, where you know, hey, look you want your TV, we can combine it with your YouTube, no problem. And yeah, it's now a product as opposed to this like platform that was experimental where you got in. I mean today, if you tried to build that channel from scratch today, you'd have a hard hard time getting

the subscribers that you have. Not not being no offense to you. Your videos are very cool, they look nice, they're well organized, all that stuff, but you'd be sitting out there, you know, lost, because you wouldn't be at the top of the bone's eye. You know, somebody sponsored by a miracle grow very hard to start a new channel. It's yeah, somebody who comes out of the gate sponsored by like Miracle Grow or something like that, would be would dominate your category. You'd never be able to

access those people. They'd never find you. Even my my channel, I don't have mid roll ads on my videos, right, and to the YouTube algorithm, my videos probably make less money per minute than other videos, so it wouldn't get promoted as much, right because it's all about YouTube making money, and my videos don't make them a lot of money because they're long and there's no commercials in them, and they went through that time partial at the

start in the end, right, the ones that are loaded with commercials there's lots of exchange there. They can show lots of exposures, and they'd rather show people stuff like you know, the kids playing with toys was a big thing for a while, you know. Yeah, Like, I'm sure you're aware of the Ryan. The guy, the kid's name is Ryan and his whole family basically got to deal with Disney off of him just playing with these toys that he was getting sponsorship deals. He worked that out piece by piece,

you know. And uh No, it's really interesting, though, uncle, because this guy's a snapshot of the legitimate, like organically grown YouTube guy that used to exist. If you try, I'm serious, if he tried to start his channel today, he would not be able to. People wouldn't see it, they wouldn't find it. It would be lost because of the because of the he got in at a good time to do something like this. It's really interesting and I'm I'm growing an appreciation for this as I'm looking

through your stuff. I'm just telling you it's it's really great. I mean I always thought that Bush he gets very good, very good. When you look at a panchai, it's sort of what it does. What it does, it relaxes the person right. Yeah, for like like to say, for example, you've had a bad day, right check, say you had a bad day and and and you want something to relax you with this here, putting this show on like he's done, would relax you and relax you

something. That's the job that does it. That's a good job to do. Job to do. Lie right. Well, Look, because we are at the end of the show, I just want to remind people they need to check out the Bone Size Zone again. I put the the link in at the O'Kelly chatroom at Ocelli dot com. Uh So if you go back and you roll it back, even if you're hearing this podcast later, you can always go back to the chat room get the links if you like,

and follow this and again I'm gonna put it there. Uh if you type in you can go and relax YouTube dot com at the Bone Size Zone. Okay, literally, that's the way it is. Again, I'll put that link at the in the chat room. But I encourage you guys to check it out because it's very cool and I've never heard of them before. Okay, because I'm not a bone tye enthusiast, not even as much as Aaron, but it's very cool. So you know, there you go, guys,

it's in the chat room again. And Nigel, this was really great. Thanks well, thank you very much for having me on the podcast. I really appreciate it and it was really nice talking to you guys. I really enjoyed the conversation, even though we didn't get too far into you know, some of these other topics that aren't bolts I related, but it's best to stay away from. Yeah, well, we appreciate you indulging as Nigel, it has been great having you. Thank you so much for being here.

Thank you for having me. And oh and Angrew if you want to talk this anytime, welcome to call. Oh you know, thanks, I know the thing. Yeah, we'll stay in touch. Perhaps Aaron will do a part two with you. That'll be great. I would love to see that. Yeah, yes, so good night night. All okay, all right, so Uncle not just I liked it. The bun size down on

YouTube. Something we learned post and if anybody's interested in us, we are Uncle the Podcasts at Uncle podcast on YouTube, but also Twitter and Instagram at Uncle podcasts and Uncle the Podcast. So thank you for listening and also my things. Like I said, on Saturdays. So if you guys ever want to listen to it tomorrow, this is this is the next one. I'm going to be showing this Stranger by Orson Wells, will be watching on VH Be there tomorrow when we watch it with us. Will be fun, all

right, there you go, a little little Orson Wells. No drunken uh wine commercial or whatever it was. No, no frozen peas or California wines this time. No no, no, no, no, no no wine case I'm watching them is just outages me to watch these things. It might be this one. Just take the watch