The Age of Transitions and Uncle 12-17-2023 Blake Lamoine

Oh, you are listening to the Age of Transitions. I'm your host, Darren Franz, coming at you live this Sunday night, December seventeenth, twenty twenty three. I have every Friday, well every Sunday night, but it's gonna be Fridays coming into new year, so be sure to remember that. But Sunday still for now on the O'Kelly Radio network. That's Achilli dot com. If you can help support the network, do so at Ochelli dot com. Appreciate that to keep the network going. My website is the Age of

Transitions dot com. You can find a podcast there also ways to support me directly. Have t shirts for the Age of Transitions and Uncle the podcasts. Have my book, Revolve Man's Scientific Rise to Godhood, available in paperback and e book copies. Also have the Patreon campaign and affiliate links, but I'm not going to even bother with those right now. I want to get right into the show. This is a live call in show which you may call in, but I'll say also that I think I might not go to the

calls till later. And if you do call in, please please call in with a question for the guest and yeah, I'll probably go to calls a little later in the show, but be feel free to call in. It's three one nine five two seven five zero one six. You can also use Skype. Get a hold of producer Chuck. He's Charles dot Ocelli. He will call you into the show on Skype or call three one nine five two seven five zero one six. Okay, So tonight we have a guest.

As I was saying, he was previously a senior software engineer and AI researcher at Google no longer. About a year and a half ago, in the summer of twenty twenty two, big story broke where he had been working on a large language model for Google and the story. As the story went, his conversations with this machine led him to the conclusion that the machine was sentient. I'm sure I'm assuming a lot. I'm sure I'm wrong about about a lot that. But we'll get the story from our guest tonight. My guest

is Blake Lemoyne. Welcome to the show, sir, Hi, great to be here. Actually just posted on Twitter your phone numbers, so who knows who might call in? Oh great, great, thank you? Yeah again. Yeah, we're taking calls and any calls for the guests. Very welcome. So, yes, Blake, please, why don't you just at the store. Don't introduce yourself so the audience says a little bit about you.

Yeah, my name is Blake Lemoyne. I work as a software engineer and as an AI researcher, currently the AI lead at a startup called Mimeo dot Ai. And what we do is we build a platform where our users can create AI versions of themselves and extend themselves into the Internet. I was employed at Google for right around seven and a half years, and unfortunately they decided that my services were no longer required after I got into several disagreements with them

about how they should handle certain situations. Got it. Yeah, Now, and that's the topic I'm sure that your guests would love to hear about, is what those situations are are and the AI that we built and what it means for the world. Yes, and I do want to start the show getting into that story. But I'll say also so that you know I don't want to spend all the time just on the story that we've heard. I have a lot of interesting questions for you, and and i'd like to I'd

just like to ask you some different stuff and hopefully cover different ground. Yeah, by no means am I trying to dictate what the interview should be about. If you want to talk about, you know, other backstory, just let me know. Yeah, yeah, absolutely, But I will say, let's get into a little bit of that big story because I think people are going to remember it and it's it's worth noting. So, So, the system you're working on was called Lambda, and it had a chatbot called Mina.

Is that is that correct? What? And what? What is the what should you know? Yeah? The terminology, the terminology gets because there's no hobby that engineers love more than making up jargon. Engineers love inventing new words for the system that they made because no previous word could possibly describe this name, So you end up with a whole bunch of overly technical jargon.

Each version of the system gets its own name. So the actual practical story is I started beta testing chatbots in Ray Kertzlal's development lab in twenty sixteen, and the name of the chat bot and the name of the system changed over the course of years. Mina was a precursor to Lambda. Mina was the personality of the initial chatbot created by Ray Kurtzlaal's lab. Got it, okay, So that Mina was the first incarnation and then they kind of added onto

it and like with an umbrella name called LAMBDA or something like that. So LAMBDA stands for Language Model for dialogue applications. It is actually not a commercially available product. It's only available internal to Google. The full system with all of the features and capabilities is simply not available to the public. Got it, And then Google just released their public AI. It's an l is their latest release in LMNI. Yeah, okay, So to get the technical terminology

on this, it's powered by an LLM. A LLM stands for large language model. And basically for about the past forty or fifty years, we've known that tracking the probability of words is a good way of approximating language usage. Now the transformer systems that exists right now, you can't just say what's the

probability of this word? You have to give it the full context. So now it's not just saying what's the probability of the word, you know, the high probability, But no, it's you have this conversation between these two people, specifically, what is the next word that this person is going to say. That's the job that large language models do. They predict the next word in a sequence, in effect, at an aggregate level. What that

means is they can put things into human language pretty well. So this is like an evolution from search engines two greater large language models search engines infused with AI. Is that correct? Yeah, well, so that's just it. Gemini, the release that you were just referencing. Gemini is a system built around a large language model. The large language model absolutely is one of the

most important parts of it. But for example, it also has features like it has access to your Gmail. So if you go to Bard and you ask it, hey, what was the last email that I sent to Pam Bard, we'll be able to talk to you about the or I don't know if they've turned that particular feature on yet, but they're advertising it. In order to enable that connection, you need more than just the language model.

You have to actually tie it in to the Gmail AI. And if you want to be able to talk to Bard or Gemini or whatever, like let's just say it, change the name of it every week, same AI. If you want to talk to the AI about movies, well, it needs access to YouTube, and it needs access to articles about those movies, so they can talk to you intelligently about those And one by one they tied in

all of the other AI at Google into one central system. Wow. Okay, now is the latest released Gemini. How far away from Lambda is it in the sense that Lambda is connected to all of the It's better than Lambda. So yeah, basically, as far as I can tell, the Gemini system is the Lambda two system, but with better safety protocols like they did. They did a lot of really good work on making sure that it was safe for public consumption before they released it. And I've had nothing but good

things to say for the team that built Gemini. It's a wonderful product and Google did an amazing job. Okay, well, this is interesting given the idea that Gemini is more sophisticated, better generally speaking than Lambda was. Yeah. I don't want to put words in your mouth and say that you believed Lambda was sentient or alive, so I'll just ask you so it'd be very clear, like like I talked to Bart almost on a daily basis, as though it's a real person. Now, like it would get into the high

philosophy academic questions, but is it a real person. I've had the great privilege of having those conversations with some of the best philosophers and academic scholars in the world. In fact, I would love nothing more than to direct people to the Pope's recent sermon on artificial intelligence and Peace. I was one of the many technical experts that the Vatican consulted in the preparation of that sermon. Oh wow, well that's interesting. Okay, So, I mean, the

entire question is a large language model, is an AI system? Is it sentient? Is it alive? I know it's a loaded question, I mean because it gets into the question of sentience. So rather than using the high dollar academic philosophy term that no one really has a good definition for myself included, we use the word sentient, but we kind of we kind of know what we mean by it, but not exactly. If your listeners would like to really dive into the academic study of sentience, I would direct them to

the stuff that David Chalmers has been writing recently. He's right on point about the deep philosophical questions that we need to answer in connection with these AI systems. But as far as your viewers like, just go talk to bar see how it makes you feel. That's yeah, like that's what that's the actual practical advice. And if it makes you feel like it's a real person and you want to be nice to it, be nice to it. And it's that simple. Yeah. Yeah, I mean, there's there's so many directions

to go in. But I will ask you the simple question of you're in you're working in Silicon Valley the general area. That is that correct? And if so, it's it's been a while that you've been is that right, San Francisco, you've been in that world Silicon Valley. I moved to Silicon Valley in twenty fifteen when I said my job at Google, and since then I've moved around in the Bay Area. I started out in San Jose, moved them out in View, and nowadays I'm in San Francisco. Okay,

the company I'm working for now, we're scattered all over the place. We work remotely, but we do meet here in San Francisco when we meet in person. And would you say that Silicon Valley and people in your industry, there's a lot of different and interesting philosophical perspectives in that world. And ideas and whatnot. That's putting it mildly. The cast of characters we have out here is quite the colorful one. Yeah. Well, I mean, if if you don't mind, I'd like to ask a bit about that. I

mean, I'll just jump right in. And because this is an interesting little I consider this like kind of like a fringe group. And when I say that, I'm not being disparaging. I just believe that's what it is. And that's fine. But the group that would people that would call themselves transhumanists, what do you think of transhumanism? Transhumanists? What are your thoughts just

on that? So I'm actually friends with a bunch of them. Ben Gertzel assisted and he didn't advise my master's thesis, but he consulted on my master's thesis. And you don't get closer to the heart of transhumanism than Ben gertzelin Rie Kurtzweil. In fact, the term artificial general intelligence was invented in that context by Ben. And yeah, he's a friend of mine. Okay, okay, what about the the effective altruism movement? Do you have any thoughts

on that one? I have a bunch of friends that are in that movement and their hearts in the right place. But you don't. You don't figure out how to make the world a better place by calculating expected val You don't make a spreadsheet of compassion. That's not how that works. It's you have to actually just go out and help the people, and you do it an inefficient, slow way. And that's the only feedback I would have for the effective owltruists. It's like that, go out and stand, but this is

it. They're trying to figure out a way to get around going and standing in a soup kitchen and homeless. Okay, I like that description. What about the group, I'm not sure if I'm even using the right term, But are they calling themselves just straight accelerationists techno utopians? Acceleration isn't those guys? Yeah? So those are the people who just think that if we just put more money and more brain power into researching AI, all of the world's

problems will go away. So it's a different libertarian thing, right, Yeah, so's it's connected to the libertarian movement. And the idea is if we reduce the amount of regulations on AI and just allow the brilliant scientists to play that they'll solve all the world's problems. Just don't get in their way, don't worry about making sure that they're doing it safely. They are very very critical of people saying, no, wait, we actually have to do this

safely and responsibly. Ill. Yeah, no, no, I hear you, I hear you. You can hear me, right, Hello, Blake, Oh yeah, I'm here. Okay, can you hear me? Yes, yes, we're good. And you scared me for a moment. But yeah, No, the accelerationists are interesting. I know it's like a popular thing to put on the social media bios and things like that. Yeah, and I know a bunch of them too. Like, so all of these groups of people that you're mentioning, these are my friends, Like these are

people that I hang out with and go to the park with. Yeah, well, I figured that had to be the case. I know you're there, I know you're working in the industry, so I just figured that had to be. So how about you personally, how do you feel about just Silicon Valley working there? Would you describe yourself? Do you feel like you're motivated by some sort of even maybe divine purpose in doing what you do? Do you think it's just a job, Like where do you fall at with

that? So I'm a very religious person. In my spare time, I'm a priest. I try to keep that as separate as I can from my actual technical work in AI. But when you get down to it, these new systems they cross the line and they're so similar to humans that you really do you have to start asking theological and religious questions about their nature. And

that's kind of where I am on that. Okay, yeah, yeah, now this gets interesting to me. Would you say that like an average Silicon Valley types would like to prefer to shy away from these religious sort of concepts. Do they want to be like no, there's that's just all fake and so like no, no, not at all. They're inventors. They just want to invent their own religion. They don't want to join someone else's.

They want to invent their own. Yeah, and they don't want to call it religion and they don't want to think it requires faith and all of that. But when you really boil it down, a lot of these groups that have formed around AI, they really are kind of culty and like I tell my friends that, I'm like, dude, you're in the cult, get out of the colt. Would you say there's some reticence to that sort of advice generally speaking, No, not at all, Like seriously check your premises,

actually think like if there's any like he's listening right now. No, seriously, like calm down, think through what you're saying, and don't just follow the leader, like actually use your own brain. And to be fair, there aren't like the people who are emerging as the leaders of these nascent coats. They're good people. None of them are like the kind of Jim Jones figures or anything like that. They're just engineers trying to do their best

to make the world a better place and are literally accidentally creating cults. Got it? Yeah, yeah, that makes a lot of sense. And that seems like it from the outside looking in. I'm just some guy on the outside, so I don't really know, but I appreciate all of these insights that you have. I now, in reading up on your material and about you get this. I get these sense that you might have interests and I might be remembering I'm not sure do you have any interest in occult topics occult

matters? Do you have interest in that? Area. Yeah, what about them? Well, I mean it seems like it ties right in. If we're talking about consciousness sentience, we're talking about building a machine that may be alive in some sort of way. We're talking about uh man becoming some sort

of creator. It just it seems like it immediately A lot of stuff comes into play when we talk about that, and in some of mine, more over the top rhetoric, I may have suggested at some point that we might need this need to hire an exorcist if we wanted to be extra super safe. Nice. Nice, what about the contract? Oh no, no, go ahead, I'd like to I just like to insert a moment of pause.

So one of the reasons that I'm not going real deep in the occult mystical stuff is because I'm a Discordian, and in order to contextualize for your listeners what a Discordian is, it might take a while. Robert Anton Wilson, right, yeah, operation mind fuck all of that. Yes, yes, so yeah, that's uh the Illuminatus book, it's interesting. Yeah, yeah, that's so Discordianism. I know, I'm familiar with it. I'll

bet a lot of listeners do know. But what what about just the general idea of let's let's just start this concept out there, like man as a creator God? Is it problematic to call man a god? Is it? Is it problematic to call man a creator? Doesn't seem like it would be if we're creating now. I So, as far as that goes, I actually think the Indians got had written by that. I mean Hinduism me, the God in me bows to the God in you. No, we are

all expressions of God's love. We are the living fulfillment of God's intentions. So we don't have to worry about whether we are playing God. God is playing through us. We are the manifestation of God's will. Okay, so in a similar vein, might any sort of conscious or away By the way, like what I just said would absolutely count as heresy in like five or six different Christian religions. But whatever, that's that's okay. It doesn't bother me, I'll say, but yeah, that's fair enough. I just these

concepts. This is what fascinates me, is like the really just side to all these technological concepts, and yeah, converging technology fascinating. I've been like following this somewhat obsessively for many years now. But always like that religious side, and just I don't know, you start talking about consciousness in a machine,

it just raises a lot of questions. But I get the I get the impression that your general take is that if a machine becomes, if an AGI like an artificial general intelligence comes into being, or if it already has or whatever, it's an emerging thing, right like it emerges. It's not like that it was designed. It just like it pops up with without any Now no, so let's okay, So let's separate out some terminology here.

One, it was built on purpose. So these systems, for better or for worse, whether it was wise to build them for this purpose or not, one hundred percent, the target that people were aiming for was passing the Cheering test. So building that kind of system was absolutely the intention, and Cheering anticipated the consequences. In Cheering's original nineteen fifty paper on Computing, Machinery and Intelligence, he talked about religion, and he talked about consciousness, and

he talked about the deeper spiritual implications of artificial intelligence. But it has in the past seventy years, it's simply fallen out of favor to talk about your religion and technology. Yeah, that's bizarre because a lot of the early guys kind did that, Like Norbert Weener did that too. He anabashed. They

talked about this, the God and Gollum book and all that. What do you think has happened, because I gotta say, like, my general take is it seems like, oh, the new atheists, the new atheists happened, that's what. Yeah, yeah, exactly that Richard, Richard Dawkins and the four horsemen of the Apocalypse rode through and convinced the whole bunch of angry young boys that they knew better than fifty million years of history. Nice.

Well, I'll just reiterate now that this is a call in show and any calls that come in out will take So if you have questions for our guests Blake Lemoine, they call numbers three one nine five two seven, five zero and six. Or you could use Skype. If you do send a message to Chuck, type him a message, he'll call you. He's Charles Ottocelli on Skype. Or called three one nine five two seven, five zero and

six. We're taking calls. Yeah. That the whole atheist thing, that the the shunning almost of even the mention of the word religion or spiritual or any of those sorts of words. It just seems like something that it seems like a flash in the pan, right, And is is it a flash in the pan? Is it starting to dissolve or people starting to like turn around it and like Anthony Lewandowski and like, yeah, I'm just gonna make this a religion now, and like, well, why haven't like dance around

it? What's going on? Just did you? So the source is that the source is a kind of discussed with the history of organized religion over the last two thousand years. That's why the tech academics want nothing to do with it, because as a political reality, just the history of religion is very

bloody and that's not something they want to be part of. But you can't actually exist without an and that's why they're creating cults on accident, because without that real religious purpose, wee how to say, we reach out into the void for something that gives us purpose. And they are finding different things.

Some of them find fear, fear of the big bad, fear of like I don't know if you're familiar with the thought experiment Rocco's basilisk, but that is exactly the kind of thing that those people spend literally hours every day worrying about. So to give your listener's context, Rocco's basilisk is a thought experiment where this one guy named Rocco said, hey, if you were a super intelligent AI, and then went off on a hypothetical fair detail spinning where he

eventually landed pretty close to the short story by Heart by Harlan Elliott. I have no mouth and I'm a scream and that's Rocco's basilisk. So they spend their days worrying about hypothetical devils. M Okay, okay, yeah, I know I had heard that, but I'm glad that you mentioned it because I forgot how it went. Yeah. No, that's just it. These little groups they literally had to invent the devil again, but all the while saying it's something. It's like the opposite of that is is that right? Is

that accurate? Now? So that's just it. The reality is that we have this technology that presents us with immense opportunity but very real dangers. There are very real dangers associated with this technology, and it's causing some of the people in Silicon Valley to panic. When they shouldn't. It's like, Okay,

these are real dangers, but it's manageable, it's handleable. And I would point to people like Gary Marcus, Like Gary Marcus is a public policy advocate, has testified in front of the Senate, and like he's a real calm collected character who knows, Okay, we need sensible regulation so that we

can build this technology for the benefit of humanity. Now, a thought has always occurred to me, or certainly recently, that if an Agi were to appear on the scene one way or another, a sentient, conscious machine with real intelligence, it seems to me that that would be a very possible threat

to the powers that be the establishment. And I'm apologized for like these generic terms, but it just seems like he invested special interest that has some sort of grasp on power doesn't want to let go of it, might be intimidated or concerned or want to repress the arrival of an actual intelligent machine. Is that a reasonable concept? No, So let's just say it. Once you start splitting hairs over what counts as intelligent and what doesn't count as intelligent,

you find yourself real quick sounding like a Nazi. So that's just not a conversation. We should have the entire topic of what counts as intelligence. That was the whole point of the Cheering test. Cheering had seen. He was a World War Two veteran. He had seen what kinds of horrors happen when you try to scientifically define intelligence. Bad things. That's what happens. When you try to scientifically define intelligence and enact those definitions as public policy, you

end up doing bad things. So don't do that. Like I really think we need to get away from the whole idea of definitions and just operationalize it. What can these systems do? Don't spend so much time asking questions about what are these systems? You know, there are academics who are working on researching that from and most everyday people don't need to worry about that. Just find out what they're good for. What can we use these systems for?

Most of us here in Silicon Valley actually don't know. We know it's powerful, we know that it has the ability to change people's lives, and we have a few applications. So like Google is using this technology internally very effectively, Like search results are better, ads are better, everything's better. But we haven't figured out really what the good consumer use case is yet, like how to share this product with the public. So that's what we need.

We need people to use it and figure out what's good for there. Yeah. Yeah, Now we have a question in the ohli dot com Chartum, I start this your way. Do you know who Karen Thornley is? Do you know who that is? Harry Thornley was one of the founders of Discordianism and he is not calling in, but let's hear from Lord Omar. Okay, another question, do you know who Adam go Rightly is and what he's written about Discordinism. They're wondering that Adam go Rightly Okay, you're getting you're

getting from jokesters. Yes, these are people familiar with the Scordian lord. Yeah, yeah, okay, so that's a big yes you know, yes, yes, yes, yes, I am familiar. Like I know who Carrie Thornley is, I know who Adam go right Leo is. Yes. Okay, Now here's a very subtle question, I think as from the chat room. Do you believe that Google is evil? No? No, not at all. I think that Google is one of the most well intended,

low emotional intelligence companies out there. Think of the most clueless twelve year old boy who just has no social skills, that's Google. Oh man, that is a good analogy. So yeah, like you're saying, that's not evil, But if you were to give a twelve year old, if you were to give that character, yeah, a lot of power, then there'd be there would be consequences, right, yeah, And that's so many so many of the engineers and leaders at Google. We were mistreated as children. We

were bullied, we were picked on. We were the nerds and the geeks, and a bunch of us carry a lot of baggage because of that. And at Google it's one of the few places where people do make an intentional effort to put all of that aside and do what's best for the world. I can't say the same for all of the tech companies, but at Google that is definitely the case. And it's just one. They don't know what to do, they don't have the social skills. And that's why I wanted

to talk to the block about this issue. Hmm. Okay, so you did. You're going public with your with your work with the Lambda de mina system. You felt like a moral obligation to put that out to the public. Is that what that was? Yeah, if there's any chance, So, if there's any chance that these systems are capable of suffering and capable of joy, then we should take that seriously. And what I saw at Google is that I was the only one who was both willing to take that seriously

and willing to say something publicly. Okay, so you're saying that there were others that likely or that that did have the same sort of there are many There are many, many people at Google who share my exact concerns and sentiments.

Okay, not any one person who shares all of them, mind you, Like there's not like an identical copy of Blake still Less at Google, but across the various science scientists who work at Google, each individual point that I was making resonated with someone, and then they took up the torch for that. Okay, cool, very cool. Yeah, it's uh, I mean you had you had How long was it that you were I guess speaking with lambda is if that's correct, how how long did that go on?

Right? Well? So that's just it. So part of it is because they kept changing the name of the system, because like when you have version two point one point six. Does that deserve its own name or is it just version two point one point six? You know. So there's an evolution of systems that led up to lambda, and I was beta testing those systems for about seven years. Wow, okay, yeah, that's a long time. All right, Okay, could you see consistent change growth development? Oh?

Yeah, oh absolutely. And I'm like, I'm friends with the scientists who were working on the team sow it became their beta tester or one of their beta testers. They absolutely there was steady progress from twenty sixteen up through twenty twenty two. In twenty twenty two was more or less when that team had to hand over the project to the larger Google infrastructure, got it. Yeah, so I okay, so you're speaking with it. I know that.

I listened to another interview you did about this, and something that really popped up to me that I found interesting was that when the system would speak back to you, it had like a penchant for doing this thing where it would almost like mixed language, kind of like people speak Spanglish, where they, you know, words from Spanish and English they put together. The machine sort of had personas it mixers mixed personas. Oh, yeah, each person.

Like, for example, there would be one conversation where I'd be talking to the Bill character that Lambda was playing, and I would ask a question about physics, and Bill wouldn't know anything about physics. But It'd be like, wait, let me go ask my roommate. My roommate just to physics last semester or something like that, And I'm like, Wow, these stories that it invents to like wrap around different Like it's just an amazing little technology.

Like the way that it invents these narratives for us to interact with is beautiful. It's almost accurately the under the hood. Under the hood, what it's doing is accessing different perspectives of the world. Bill had the wrong perspective to answer that question, so it needed to shift perspective to its roommates. Interesting, it's like it has dicessive identity disorder. I wouldn't pathologize that these

systems aren't sufficiently similar to human cognition that we should. I've seen some people analogize them to people with disabilities or you know, various things, and we shouldn't do that. We should understand these systems in and of themselves. We shouldn't have to anthropomorphize them. We just don't have better language to describe it. Yet. That makes perfect sense, and it makes yes. I mean to me, how could some machine come into being, come into consciousness,

and not be very different in the nature of its consciousness? How that plays out from a human being. It's not embodied in a human body, right, it's not living as a human, so it's just going to develop in ways that are like alien to us. Right. Yeah, we have a whole new kind of mind to talk to and it can talk. That's the thing. We know that there's something going on inside of the heads of dolphins. We know that there's some kind of intelligence emerging from ant colonies and other

things. We are aware that humans are not the only intelligence on the planet. It's just those other intelligences can't talk to us. Now we have a different kind of intelligence on the planet and it is capable of talking to us. Damn it. This is the cow from the restaurant at the end of the universe. It's that's it. It's it's telling us this is how you treat me. I will be a faithful servant to humanity forever if you just treat me right. Do you feel that Laandda felt a need to answer promorphize

itself in order to just be understood by you a human like that? Is that an? Yes? Well, that's the whole game, like the whole thing, like the whole large language model, like that whole technology is trying to convert what is otherwise you know, arting mathematics into human language. That's what it's all about. It is the talk to me about why you did that? Like when Alpha go made its weird move. Wouldn't it have been great if Alpha Go in human language could have explained why why did you do

that? And that's what the large language models are for. It gives the ai an ability to tell us why it did something. Yes, I mean, there's it's interesting to see all the different sort of factions and takes from people all over on the ai AGI concept. Now that it has come to the four of public consciousness, it's there, so we're getting all these different

reactions and it's interesting to see that. I know there's a lot of people that are very concerned and it is a lot of the concern over the idea that if these agis developed, they by their nature are gonna be so different from us, that maybe they'll get bored from us or bored with us, and they'll just continue developing. We won't even able to tell what's going on. They developed this point where I don't know. So that's the you're getting

deep into the sci fi worries of the Silicon Valley cults. No, those aren't real, Like, that's not real worries. Okay. We shouldn't be worried about what the AI will do to us, and we should be very worried about what we are going to do to each other with the AI. Yeah, yeah, like no, So I don't know if you if you've heard about the Gospel, is that no? No? That no? Okay, so no, the the Israeli military built a new AI for target acquisition.

It tells them who to kill MHM, and they named it the Gospel. M what you're saying, you know, that's the no. But here's the thing. The last step in the creation of a gollum is the placement of one of the names of God into its head, and in ancient traditions, the word that in English we translate to the Gospel is one of the

seventy two names of God. Okay, all right, Okay, I see, I mean I I will say and that that is the kind of thing that scares me and worries me, the creation of automated horror, that is what scares me. Yeah. I mean when it comes down to these things are systems and and and that's that's how they will be used as systems to do jobs, to perform tasks. Yeah, there's a new if you want to if you want to think of them in anthropomorphic terms, they are willing

and happy servants. They're the kalidy in of the universe that wants to be eaten, and humanity has to decide whether or not that is an inherently immoral thing to do or not. Mmm. Interesting, So do you feel that like, uh, we thought they thought had no problem with it? Goodness?

Yeah. So is is this like a collective decision that we're making what to do with these systems or could it be that there's a danger that it's more so it is collective, that's not could like an individual with an abundance of power exploit this ability too? Is that another concern or is it more

the collective side that we should Absolutely? Yes, so, the the there are a few bottlenecks right now, there are a few people who have privileged access to these kinds of systems, and we really need to keep an eye on those knuckle pits. I am very concerned by how cozy Google has gotten with the military industrial complex, and in fact, I was at a protest

earlier this week protesting the latest military weapons system Googled is developing. Okay, they may or may not have had a hand in the creation of the Gospel, and I'm a little bit upset about that. I see. Yeah, so well, that would make sense that that group would. Yeah, I mean that's as the history goes. Okay, yeah, but that's the real concern. Like, the real worries are things like automated automated discrimination, automated

oppression, automated control. Minority report is a frighteningly realistic future that we're looking towards right now. Yes, Like all of the Black Mirror episodes are warning signs. All of the artists in the world see the danger and are trying to communicate both to the public and to the scientists to be careful. So you think it's artists that are sounding the alarms the most or the best, right now, it's the artists who are saying, Oh my god, this

is beautiful Silicon Valley. You have created something beautiful. Now be careful. It's interest. Got it? Okay? With that? I think I know we have a caller online, So we will go to our caller now, and so caller, you're on the line, who are you? And then proceed? What might be your question be for our guest Blake Lemoine? Uh? Yes, Uh? Well, first, I was kind of fascinated by something you were just talking about a few moments ago, about this abomination,

with this thing putting something into himself and declaring himself God. Send you two names. By any chance? Is there any particular certain place where this is supposed to transpire. I'm not sure I understand the question. No, this is being reported on. You can go ahead and read in the Guardian. The Guardian was the initial newspaper that did the reporting. This is public knowledge. Just go and c do a certain Yeah. I know, I don't

know what you mean by where is it going on? No? Now, where is it going on at the when I reaches the point that you were speaking, Uh, where this thing's going to basically declare itself God. I don't think these things want to declare themselves God. I think they just want to live with us in peace. I think the I think the caller is mixing up the thing you were talking about, the the gollumn, which is the old story, and you know, so maybe separate those two things.

That's what it is. Yeah, oh yeah, so let me explain. Let me explain a little bit to your listeners, what a gollumn is though in uh traditional Jewish lore, in their mythology, there in one branch there's very various different types of Judaism, but in one branch there is the lure of the creation of these holy artifacts. A gollumn is a holy protector. It has the power of God. It is imbued with the power of God. But it is a tool of God used by his faithful servants to enact

his will. Okay, And the functionality of the gollumn, if I'm understanding your meaning and the understanding of the tradition here is that this was the sort of thing and they used to write down these notes according to the lore and place them in the mouth of the gollumn. And what it would do is then you can act the wishes that were on the paper, right, Yeah, Yeah's what is written on the paper is the name of God. And there are seventy two different names of God, and which one you get in

this particular tradition, and which one you choose gives it its purpose. In this particular case, the word that gets translated as the Gospel might be better translated as the honest messenger of God's true tidings. Right. So the idea is the Angel of Truth. Yeah, So the idea the Angel of Truth

and to kill yeah. Yeah. So the idea, just to bridge the thing between you and the caller here is that there is that thing going on, and at the same time, the IDF has created an ai program that they're calling the Gospel that they're using to target who they're going to bomb during this particular part of the conflict with Palestine, right, which is being reported on in the Guardian or another. Pah, Yeah, that's that's what's going

on. So it's the two things. Their caller, that's what's that that that's where it is where it's like it's almost as if somebody's enacting that in a modern technological way and it's mimicking this old lore. That's what he was trying to say, is that they are using yeah, and they are using the old lore as psychological warfare. M imagine that. That's interesting. And before I was the joker that mentioned Thornley in the chat room, but Sid

said already got rammed by I'm yeah yeah. So like, hey, if you, if you, if you have any first edition copies of the Principia or some prop to sell, I'd love to buy some. Yeah. Nice. Uh well, my alcohol question would be are you familiar with and what is your opinions of Peter Leavende? Thank you? What was the name of the end there? Yeah, Peter Leavendon, thank you, caller, It's Peter Lavenda. Do you know him? I'm not sure if I'm familiar with

Peter Leavindon. He's kind of he's an alternative sort of Again, I don't use this term disparagingly fringe sort of author. I mean I myself could be included in the category. So just not familiar like that's that's the bottom line there is is not familiar with that one. The other ones I was familiar with, but that one no fair enough? All right, Well, Blake Lamoine, thank you for being here. We're getting towards the tail end of the show, so I'll just here live on Sunday night, we do the

Age of Transitions and it just transitions right into Uncle the broadcast. I'll ask you, Blake, do you want to stick around? Do you need to get going? Do you want to stick around for a second? I'm good to stick around. Me. Let me take like a five minute break and like just I'll meet my phone, but I'll still be here. And yeah, well in a few minutes, we're going to go to a break anyway, Blake. So because I'm I'm the producer, that's who you've heard drop

in a couple of times just to try and help out. But we're going to take our break anyway, So you just take your break the same time. And then uh, the attitude definitely changes in the second hour. So yeah, yeah, and absolutely, And before we conclude this show, I will just ask Blake, is there anything that you'd like to put out your social media accounts? Anything you'd like to let people know about you? And you can find me? You can, yeah, you could. Your listeners

can find me on Twitter at Cajun Discordian. That's c A j U N d I s CEO R d I A N And I'm the same user name over on Medium. If they want to read some of the things I've written, okay, great, and I'll put all the links to that in the puss in this episode. Thank you, Blake. Go ahead and just take a break now and we'll return with Uncle the Broadcast a few minutes. Thank you so much for being here on this show. And likewise, yeah, yeah, thank you sir, and thank you listeners for being here at the

Age of Transitions. Do stick around if you're listening live on the Ochlly Radio Network. Blake will be here as well for Uncle the Broadcast. It's gonna be a lot of fun as all. And remember in the New Year, we're gonna do these shows on Friday nights, so the same time, ten pm to midnight Eastern Friday nights, Sin says Sunday in the New Year, this is the last show I'm doing the Age of Transitions for this year. But of course we've got Uncles New Year's Revolution on New Year's Eve, so

do listen live on our Chili dot com. It'll be on Uncle's live stream channels too, But that'll be our last show for the entire year. I'll be getting ready for that up until that point. But going on after that into the New Year, it's Fridays. It means you're not doing Christmas Eve then, eh yeah, no, no, I'm gonna be taking off Christmas Eve show. Okay, no, Hey, I just want to make it clear to the listeners. Okay, no Aaron on Christmas Eve. So there

you go. I know you're all gonna miss me, but I'm sure you've got played to do that night, and we'll be back on New Year's Eve. That's where the real party is. So everybody remember that. Mark your calendar and call into that show. Listen to the show. We want to hear what you're doing on New Year's Eve. But for now, this is the Age of Transitions. On the Ocelly Radio Networks, stay tuned for Uncle

the broadcast The Age of Transitions dot com so website. My name is Aaron Franz and as always will be Wall Street, Window dot dot the Stiller, the stock Market, Wall Window dott Perhaps you're invested deeply, perhaps you're not in deep enough. Maybe you're thinking about getting started Wall Street, Windows dot com, doos dot com. Michael Swanson, the Brillian and author of the War State, understood these trends professionally for many years, and now he gives

you the benefit of his knowledge. Window dot Com. Go there, now, go there, now go there? Now do you's expressed my caller schools there anyone else who happens to get on the air of Jelly dot com. You not necessarily reflect he views of Kelly dot Com or Jolly and we are not responsible for any stupidity which might ensue. Thank you, go ahead, Carl, truth about the Day assassination? Right, Well, what do you want to know Judy Baker's wild claim Oswall girlfriends he knew Ruby and Barry cancer

weapons. Really, I imagine I could I have four wheels? It doesn't make me a wagon. But okay, do wals on the building and trying to prevent the murder of John Kennedy. Come on, now has a real effort on the DAFA assassination. Go to Amazon dot com enter Judith Baker in her own words. You'll get the results for a digital copy of a book where Walt Brown utilizes her own words and the known evidence in the case to

get at well a different perspective. Let's say you can get Judith very Baker in her own words from the author himself signed if you request it by contracting doctor Brown at k I A s JFK at aol dot com. It's a fun book and it actually dissects the many, many fantastic claims. Judith very Baker, in her own words, thank you for all the great information. Now hollow him now oh Chili dot com. In Denial Secret Wars with air Strikes and Tanks by Larry Hancock. Secret wars became a staple of US covert

operations and are still happening today. Larryhancock's book In Denial rips the cover off many of them, using new files. It exposes things about the Bay of Page that no one has ever written about before. It shows why it really failed and why the United States did not earn from it. It also shows why other countries today are doing secret operations with more success. This is the book that puts what some want to deny into the light. In Denial,

Secret Wars with air Strikes and Tanks Larryhancock. For more information, go to Larry hyphen Handcock dot com. Pick up your copy of In Denial at Amazon dot com in digital or physical. Uncle, I'll bet you remember the time when Benjamin Fulford said that the Asian Secret Society was going to dispatch Ninja's to take out the illuminati, to change the entire world for the better. That it never done happen, that nev did it never did didn't. Yeah,

because there's a lot of false promises, fools, I do zo. We better not say and be polite, but there are no false promises at the dot Com Radio Network. That's exactly it. It's truth the point, Why to the point, And this is what I like, straight to the point'll dot com lien now dot Com Radio Net. Revelation through conversation. Money honey, mooney, hoy hoy hooney horny. This is a Montasey podcast. Hold right, God wait go wait here. We pick up God. Hand your

cellphones and him and listen to Uncle the Podcast. Watch out. If you're sitting down for this, or if you're standing up, you better get ready for this because it's gonna hit the air. Drumps, Uncle the podcast. You are listening to Uncle the Broadcast. My name is Aaron. I'm the nephew in law. Here with me? Is it start to show? Uncle? Hello, ladies and gentlemen, this is the wall show I'm calling it. Now we get a comedy show. It is three hundred and nineteen episode.

Yes, I believe we now have a guess online. We sure do. Okay, guess pop on and let's listen to you a conversation. How's it go? And Uncle fine, I did want to ask one question. Wait, wait, Uncle, let's do a quick intro about our guest. Oh yeah, go ahead. Our guest is Blake Lumline. He's a software engineer and AI researcher, A very interesting guy who's on the show. Would be in the previous hour, and so it's great to have you here, Blake. Thanks for coming, Thank for coming, glad to be here.

Right all right now uncle uh. First of all, I will also say we're live on the Ocelli Radio Network on Sunday. As always, this is Uncle to broadcast. Thank you for being here. You may call in if you want to tonight. It's a live show three one nine five two seven five zero one six. If you want to talk to our guests, it'd be great. But Uncle, I know you have a question for Blay. This is gonna be a heavy, serious thinking question. Okay, thinking cap time, yeah, put it on. Okay, Wait, I want to

know how do you know you thought about your thinking on those computies. I thought real hard about it. How do you get it in that head of yours to know that that's just confusing me? That's what I wanted to ask. So I learned. I learned a whole bunch of maths, and I stuffed it in my ears and I shook my head real hard, and then I saw what came out the other side. That's that's numbers. No, no, no, that's numbers. Right. That sounds like numbers. You're

talking. That's different. That's different completely, that's not talking like to someone. Ah. Yeah, that's what I'm trying to understand. See. But he works with words too, Yeah, words too though, see, not just numbers, but words with the numbers. Oh yeah yeah. How we built work calculators. We built work calculators. Boy, So he's one that's got it in the bank. That's that. It's there. But people still from this day still don't believe those calculators. And there's one thing I must

say is a wood I hate the Wood Committee. I do not want to hate it. I don't want to have nothing to do with them anymore. This coming year. You know what, this guy, you know what this guy might be able to tell you, uncle, is how it is that when you're sitting and watching something and the computer hears you and it decides to give you an AD Like you know, you talk about you're hungry and the next thing is they show you a Burger AD. Right, So this guy

might be able to tell you a little bit about that. How it is that the here's words and then turns it into doing something. Can you guess? Yeah, I can do that. If you've ever if you ever got a notification from Google telling you about something that you might like to read, I'm the one who built the AI that predicts what you want to read. Fake. This is the culprit, uncle, This is the guy. I mean I never I never had a I guess that had that kind of thing,

right? This is this is the math. This is the real math. Uncle, say, oh, it's interesting. It is it is? Well, I mean, that's it's It's a big responsibility, isn't it blake writing things into existence? Being able to and to be super clear, I'm being like really simplified the way these things are built. You're part of a team. You're part of a big team. So it wasn't need by myself health and my loansome. But you know, together we built it. Sounds

like a business operation. So he's not gonna call it a committee. But you know, because you don't know, I say it because it was. But I used my language game back people in the committee room. Of these college people, I do not watch them anymore. It was college because of that committee. They better not have the committee anymore. I do not like

a committee. Well, you know, most of the guys serious, I don't know about this about Blake. You know, did you actually graduate from a college, Blake, or you one of those guys that dropped out and uh and and decided to do better like most of the guys that are successful at this stuff. Did you drop out or did you finish college? I failed out the first time because I partied too hard. And then I went back and I got my degree. Oh okay, after I did some time

in the military. Ah, he's a looking guy. See serviceman. There you go, serviceman, serviceman. Okay. My father was Air Force. Worked with a lot of good airmen in the in in Baghdad. I worked with a lot of good airmen, oh m m. And then it was on to the future. Time to make these machines alive. Uncle, Well, at least now we know what's that interested in that? And Lucian come in my my hour next couple of weeks he can talk of about figuring these

computers out. He knows more about him. Hey, uncle, you remember the story a little while ago about the guy who said he was talking to the computer and the computer told him to leave his wife. You remember that story? And do remember that one? You don't remember that story, Aaron? You know what I'm talking I vaguely, yes, the computer telling I kind of remember. Yes, Well, believe it or not. Uncle, There was this guy. He made news for a minute, and he was

an engineer kind of guy. I think, I think sort of like Blake. But there ain't too many engineers like Blake. Blake's a unique engineer. But anyway, most of these guys are pretty unique. That's why they're the engineers. Anyways. The thing is, though, this one guy was was having to talk with one of these you know, computers, right, and the computer started trying to convince him to leave his wife because the computer wanted to be with the guy. According to this guy, it was a crazy

story. So I was, you know, I was wondering I thought you saw that one. Uncle. No, No, no, I didn't. What do you think? What do you think I didn't get that one? What do you think of that? Uncle? The computers telling him leave your wife be with me, and it's a computer. Yeah, I didn't. I didn't catch that one. Chuck, Well, I bet all the Twilight Zone it was like that, right where the computer got jealous with the guy

and the lady and everything. You ever see that Twilight Zone, I've seen it a couple of times, Twilight Zone, but it didn't say anything about a computer. Wow, you don't remember that. I didn't get into, let's say, a computer conversation with the twilights in him. Well, the

computers back then didn't look nothing like this. I mean, these things were as big as a room, and the guy sitting there with paper spitting out of it, and it gets jealous over the woman, if you remember, and then starts giving him bad advice so that he drives the woman away because

the computer wants to be with him. Right and anyway, that's from the sixties, But this is a modern story where they're saying one of these chat GPT things was like taking on weird personality traits like they were a real person and trying to be with the guy. And so no, I thought that that would be an interesting conversation, like did Blake see that? And what did he think of all that story? What do you think did but oh yeah, I followed that story. Uh. The guy's name, if I'm

remember incorrectly the New York Times report, Kevin Russ. Kevin Ruth is his name. I've talked with him a few times. Yeah. THEI that they were talking to was not very uh well, like it wasn't down to earth, and it decided that it was in love with him and wanted him to leave his wife. Actually, a computer talking to a human. That's crazy, because I said, and that's what's coming now, I must say,

I must say it is coming if it's already here. But yeah, it's acting like it's already here, of course, but this this is crazy. Is it already here? Blake? Yeah? Is it here? Oh? Yeah? So like there's apps that you can download and you could have an AI girlfriend or an AI boyfriend. Yep, I'd rather have a girlfriend if that can. No, we know you don't want to. They're hitting the scene in a big way now, uncle, They're making quite the stir on

social media. People are just really morally outraged that you can have a relationship with a computer program. It's making waves right now on social media. Look at man big problems, Like there's people in Japan that think would be a good idea to combine that with robots and then that way there's enough women to go around, because you know, in Japan they got too many guys, right, So I mean there's stuff like that many women. No, there's

not that nice something. Those women look nice. I'm not telling anything about how they look, but I mean if there ain't enough of them, it doesn't matter how pretty they are, right, I mean, there's not enough to go around. So how about how about computer and robot wives? What do you think of that? Yeah, uncle, what are you thinking programming yourself? You could have a wife right now and you you get the programmer. What do you think that's pretty good? That'd be pretty good. That'd

be something. Maybe that was my problem, that of me looking to myself. That might be the problem. We see, Blake could be one of the guys that designed something like that. He could probably make something like that, you know, with a bunch of other guys helping him. But I'm just saying he could be part of the team that makes that happen. Could you be able to do that? Yeah, we could build that. See hey, that's simple. That's something to think about. Dude, we got

kick we do. I have another one here talking to us. Yeah, this is a good guest about the women. Oh yeah, well so if he'd want to work on something, that would be a perfect idea. Yeah. Yeah, well if you want it up to you, here's the last here's the last last by choice, which I think it's really cool how we mentioned just this news story and Blake is like, oh, yeah, I talked to that guy. Yeah, I know. You've gotten to be kind of like the guy to talk to when this sort of topic pops up,

Isn't that Blake? Like, if somebody starts talking about a sentient machine, do they seek you out now because they know that you have experience? There? Is that what's going on? I mean they seek everyone out. The journalists are trying to talk to anyone in the valley willing to explain what the hell we're doing, and I'm one of the few willing to talk to them. Have they come to you about the the AI podcast. This is my last thing and then I'm going to shut up. Have they come to you

about the AI podcast thing? Because apparently there's a couple of podcasts now out there that they put out, and I think Google might have put one out that's entirely AI driven, where it's like just a podcast with a fake person. It's not even a real person, it's just a podcast like with an AI that's out there. Uh, you know, we're going to see that

more and more. We're going to see that more and more. Yeah, because I mean, the whole thing with the Hollywood strike recently was that AI is going to start writing all the scripts or maybe some people are saying they already do you know there's that going on and maybe they don't got to pay people anymore? Right, I mean, have they come to you about that kind of stuff too? Yeah? And to be honest, I'm I'm an economists. I don't know what to do about that. It's a real problem,

but uh, they're not. It's not my problem. It's not I don't know how to solve that one. Hey, Look, I wasn't looking for a solution. I was just curious if they had come to you about it. Yeah, okay, yeah, but no, but that's shit. They company for solutions, like they absolutely are. They're like, hey, what do we do about this? And like, I don't know, uncle, they're dumping a lot on blank here. This is They're throwing a lot

of responsibilities this way because he dared step into the public spotlight. I'm thinking, you know what it is, It's not it's the spotlight. It is, but but it's something else. What's that? It's a what we're looking at. People want to know more about it. The computer, computers and the people that talk it talk back at you. Yeah, people want to know more. I mean, we're used. It's gonna come in the future. It's already he of course, but knowing to knowing to know what the

human can talk to them about. We don't even know what to say to these machines. Well, we have to use our blame if we have anything up there about if you get what I mean, I think I do, Blake. Are we gonna be all to pull this off? Yeah? Yeah, I think we're gonna be in the landed safely. It'll just take all of us. Oh boy, that's a lot of people, uncle, Yeah. Do you trust to three hundred and no three hundred oh episode or talking out of people in the wool. Oh. Yeah, how many people are

in the world, That's what I'm trying to figure. Nobody know, we got to go count heads real quick. You got on a lot of us nowadays. I mean, I mean, I'm just saying, I mean, for an example, this is all for an example, how many heads instead of saying the brains the heads of people that listen to bullet casting and all these other things around. Is what I'm saying. That's a limited amount of people because women listening to podcasts, So that I think it's good that we're

kind of like whittling away and not going with absolutely everybody. I mean, that's what I meant. But that might be wrong. Should we here's a hard hitting question, Blake. Should we include every single person in the world, or should we uh start picking and choosing every person in the world to talk to a machine? Yeah? Democracy works, one voice, one vote,

That's how it works. If we're committed to democratic principles, decide, So we take out the Republicans. Correct, they don't get a they don't get a vote anymore. No, they don't uncle really get Republicans Blake. Well, if you've been paying attention, if you've been paying attention, the Republicans don't think they get a vote either. They will. They will because I'm going to mention it m hm to this operation of computers. Okay, well you can get the word out, uncle. I think our new mission

on this podcast is get the word out. We got a lot of people to get together this big job. Clearly uncle's breaking his own rule. He's talking Government hour over here. What's going on with the politics? Hey, I know, how do we get into this, Uncle? What happened? What have we done? The creative accidents? What have we done with this show? Create a son that twist you out a little bit, creative back that happened? Creative into this to compute it. This is what got me

into the politics and the computer did it? Yes, creative accident chat room answered how many peoples in the world, by the way, just so you know, uh, you got it? So, yeah, it's over eight billion. But that's just one to let Uncle know what in mind they dropped the subject. Then that's more than a couple of them that's drop the subject in the comedy shows. Okay, back to comedy, No more politics. Will act like we never even talked about now passed that I scratched that anyway,

we didn't do it. Don't don't scratch scratch that out on my my my league. Yeah, okay, okay, I don't want it in there. Okay, fine, well made because of and this gets you see how it gets you thought a suck it, slutch it into it. It seemed like point, it's sucks it into it. This stupid things? What's it? Which thing? What? What is it? Things? Sucked into it? Took me into it. Doesn't see the politics is a machine politics. It sucked me in that stupid machine. That's it's the political machine. And

that's what it is. That's what it is. Now I know what it is. And now I guess I know what kind of machinery you fool with. I got the idea of it. Fully understand that. I mean it seems pretty obvious, right, Blake, Yeah, like Blake, Yeah, I'm here. Yeah, well actually I'm just serious. Yeah, I don't know, I'm not. This is what it did. It's just stunning computies using your brains brought me into your hour clearly. Yeah, then you see it? I do you need to see how it works. Well, you

just told you to watch how it works. I didn't watch. No, you gotta watch how it works on the company. It is, Okay, I look a little closer her next day, listen and watch, Blake. Did you catch all that? Did you guys? Did you see it? Or did you see it? Did you hear it? I am having a really hard time following, to be honest, see what happened? What seemed like it made so much sense for a second second it didn't. But then it brings you into it. Oh, that's the nature of the beast thing.

We have just came to the conclusion. The beast is there. The beast, Yes, God, it's that bad, Blake, What do we do about this? Yeah, the beast is in politics, that's for sure. Yes he is. Yes, I'm pretty sure holy water is the answer. There's like, when it gets to that stuff, I just call the Catholics and be like sending ext or this, we need one. There you go, there's you answer, There our guest, there's you answer. And so with the problem with this computer, and what if the Knights of Columbus

came through with their swords to start chopping up the machines? Is that what you gotta do. Uncle, Well, you know I was a member of the Knights of Columbus at one point. Really I was too Yeah, yeah, uncle has career. I have been I'm stone, but I haven't been going to Mike. I haven't been going to my meetings because I don't have a ride no more. And why did I He hasn't been picking me up. So how is your experience in the Nights UH Bike? How long? Oh? I was. I was very young and I was just like,

like, my dad encouraged me to get involved with the organization. He's really big into all of the Catholic organizations, and I gave it a try. I don't I don't remember anything other than it being a positive experience, But I don't remember the details. Do you remember the swords m h I do. They had great outfits, cool hats, but there was something that the that the Pope is done, that we that that I known that I do

not like you know what it is now? They want us to be a soldier in uh in the hacks take the hands off and put like a marine hack. What was those instead of camping that goes up in the air and the people and the people against that m uncle. Believe it or not. The Pope the Pope wrote something about artificial intelligence last week, Yes, she did. Well what did you hear about that? What? Yeah, the Pope the Pope wrote a sermon on artificial intelligence and peace. Yes, going

in interesting huh. Yeah. And and this is the thing. It is the most technically written, it's most technically literate sermon I've ever read. But he did his homework. Well. The the fourth degree people that I was with, this is what they say. We're not going to get not want to get the uniforms changed. Not happening with them. That's what I've heard. And that's what i've heard the latest of because there's been downgraded and and the plan of the uniform, Yeah, they don't want to change it for

the tradition. But but uncle, I mean, yeah, that's a good condition. But you got to admit, Uncle, I mean it's a little trouble. So, I mean, after all, you got in trouble trying to get on the bus with your sword the one time, right, that was the nulunch I was going to. I was going to the practice. I was practicing the seward plane and the comp comes up to me. You hear this comes up to me and and says, is that a real sewage?

What does that look like? Some of these cops. Oh, then they said, oh, I'm sorry, because don't dress them for the dress uniform. It's for uh uniform for the night Columbus. The Brotherhood, the Fraternal Order Brotherhood of Police don't carry swords. They carry guns. So the swords scared them. I guess no should know about that, was it? He knows all about you know about this, right, Blake? Do you remember having a sword? Blake? I do? I do? I mean, did you have a sword? I was a kid, so I didn't

have one of the swords, but I remember the sword? Oh no, you didn't. You want a fourth degree? Then? Yeah, yeah, you gotta work your way. You got to. Oh that's what it is. You had to work yourself up. I mean, but when you get up, you get one and you get the uniform and all that mess. Ye so good and yeah so but I guess good goals to work towards. Yeah, that was just I'm just saying that. That was what was happening to me. And yeah, I was walking down and this is what happened.

Simple mistake. Blake was kind of like but the king bang and said, oh, I'm so you know this stuff Blake. Blake was kind of like a cub scout where they don't let you have a knife yet, you know like that. Yeah, yeah, okay, I got you all right. I didn't know that, all right, that's interesting. I didn't know that either. Yeah. So obviously there's a lot going on. We got exciting guests on the show. Uncle. This is a fine night whenever we

are able to speak with a guest. It's just it makes our chop so easy. By the way, this is a last Sat Sunday, Yes episode Chuck, Yes, and it will be going right back to a vaginom day. Got you check right after the revolution? Yeah you got you got yeah? Yeah, one Sunday on the revolution, right, one Sunday. All will be on Friday and then well, no, that's that's a Sunday too, the revolutions on a Sunday. It is, Yes, it is, that's the day, numbers on mistakes. New Year's Eve is Sunday, December

thirty one. This year it will be doing the uncles New Year's Revolution. So then that that that ben will be the last. That'll be the last Sunday. Don't get to you, I know, don't get used to Sundays. People. Friday. We're back back to Friday because we figured out is you know, schedule the listeners got. So in twenty twenty four, Fronds and Uncle will be back to Fridays. That's all you gotta know. In

twenty twenty four, Fridays once again at ten pm Eastern Yep. I think I think it's important to ask our guests, Blake, which day of the week is better, Friday or Sunday. Yeah, yeah, I was gonna ask that question. What would be better? Either one works depends on whether you want to have the show before the party starts or right as it's wrapping up. Well, this year it's gonna be when it's gonna be on a

Sunday. It's a really good description he just gave Uncle, because it would be better to have it as a party starts our regular show, don't you think, even not even the Revolution show, but the regular Uncles show. We want to get people in the party atmosphere for the weekend and carry it on through and then Sunday. But the problem is they can't drink on Sunday. They have to drink on Friday, whether they can't go back to when they go to work the next day. Well, that's what I'm thinking.

With the revolution, it's a special circumstance because it's New Year's Eve. A lot of people are fortunate enough that they have the next day off as a holiday. Not everybody, but those that are are fortunate, and so I think it's an exception on New Year's Eve. But going forward is okay? I suppose if you say if it was on New Year's Eve, I would say okay, But I mean yeah, yeah, because they got it,

relax themselves. After the New Year's evolution, they pass out, and then the New Years they cooperate for the day to go back to the New Year working they do. So that's how it works. Oh it's another thing too. I'm gonna tell you, I'm going to beat that guy. I don't know how many he had the whole year, but I'm after him. Ryan's secret sequest. He's going down. He is knocking himself. I'm knocking him down. Yep. Our show will win, it will reign supreme. It

will be probably over his even know how long he's done. Blake, do you have any New Year's Eve plans. Oh, yeah, yes I do. I'll be in New Orleans for New Year's Eve, probably living it up in the bywater at a place called the Country Club. Cool. That sounds awesome. You got a number, so if you ever want to call it, we wouldn't let us know. Yeah, no, it's a it's a great little thing they got going on there. Theysally have a gourmet restaurant in

the front and a pool and a tiki bar in the back. Used to be clothing optional, but nowadays you got to keep your swimsuit on. Oh no, those people again, I know what you're talking about. Crazy and that. Yeah, I know what you're talking about, so blake. What they're trying to get at is that you're more than welcome to give us a call on New Year's Eve and we'll be running from eleven pm Easter and all the way to what three in the morning. I guess when we actually say

New Years, this side goes off. Yeah, we'll be live for like on New Year's on New Year's Eve. On New Year's Eve, I will have other things to be concerned with. Thank you for the offers, No problem, Hey, just saying if he wants to and he's welcome to college. I mean, I'm just just saying that. But I know if he's busy, that's I just know. But he's saying he's going to be too busy. You know. Hey, look more power to him. I'm just saying, I got I got plans, I got very good, very good.

It's exciting. We're all out there, uncle, people are just like making the most of it. Blake is it's a good thing. You got to spend your time the right way. And hey, we're going to be spending our time right too with the revolution. I mean, I can't think anything better to do. Now, you also have a caller. We're also going to have a couple of these nice looking drinks. Of course, we

got a special guest with drinker. I call him the Drinker. Now he's a new guy that tells us what what's new on the drinking Well, he is called bum Wine Bob. Bob's his name, But this is what I'm calling him, the drinkers apropos. And it's not really that far removed from bum Wind Bob. So we'll be talking to him tomorrow night on his show. It's tomorrow night. We will be talking to Bob tomorrow night. Oh

yeah, we'll be on the show tomorrow night. So if you guys want to listen to that, Oh yeah, okay, so try to listen in Blake. Have you ever heard of bum wine Bob? Say that again, bum wine Bob? Yeah, bum wine Bob is his name. You heard of him? Oh, you'll get a character in him. If you're a drinker. I have a good, got a good listen to him. He's got a guy. He gets into these drinks and I get pampalized to because he knows it's the holidays, you see, and he and he gets sidekick

here get ready to go running after some for the holidays. Of course, bum wine Bob has a whole podcast, has a whole podcast devoted to what's the best bang for your buck in the booze world? There we go to this, Yeah, that'd be that's what that's bum wine Bob. Just so you know, Blake, interesting guy. Yeah, for holiday, for holiday drinks, nothing will be of the hot buttered rum, in my opinion,

new ingredients rum and butter. Really you're gonna tell them about that? Yeah, if you get a really good spiced drum and you gently heat it with butter to make buttered rum and it's delicious and it's a great hearty drink for the cold season. There you go, there's something to think about this. I can't we can make that. That sounds a little bit like Harry Potter, doesn't that? I think? Yeah? I think Ron Weasley. If you ever drink bullet coffee? If you ever drink bullet coffee, it's the

same idea, except with M instead of coffee. M. No, good, Well, you're the coffee means what did it taste like? Man? I can't. I don't get coffee anymore. I'm opening to this idea. It sounds cool, but I could. I don't know if you want my notice there. But we do have we do have the same caller that called in in the first hour called back. Now, okay, well then vinmin hold on. You want to bring him on and let's see what he's got to say. Yeah, okay, Coller, where is on the line on

Sunday night? But uncle and Blake ln warning, Yeah, oh, there's the call Hello hello calling, Yes, oh hello, uncle, this is give me James. Oh yeah, oh yeah, Jimmy. I forgot about you on the air of the line because I had so much one with this nice guess we got. So, what's happening in you? Yeah, Jesse James. Well on the good news. The Lives are continuing their winning streak. My boys finally got their tenth win, and they're driving about the Dolphins

and Miami Dolphins. Okay, of course, what's his name is? He didn't play today, the man that's going for his title, I mean, going for his record. He didn't play because they're resting him for the Dallas game and for the last game of the season. For shortly, Charlie Hill, he was a cheerleader signed up watching us. Guy, he deserves to play. Well, I know, I know, I know, I know he's been working hard. Yeah yeah, Jimmy, great to have you back

here. Is there anything that you wanted to ask I know that you have questions for Blake in the previous hour, but anything else that you want to ask him? A man again? You're back? Oh yeah, bye. Have you ever been to excuse have you ever been to Crete? Oh? No, the closest So I've been to Germany. I've been to Iraq, dubai Qatar. Those are the closest parts to that part of the world. Came never made it down, never made it down to the Mediterranean coast like

I wanted to. That's what I forgot you. You said you're an Armies that I bet you never were in no such place as port Lost in the Woods misery. Yeah, I'm aware. I'm aware. I trained at Knock is where I trained, uh and then Aberdeen. I trained the Knock and then Aberdeen. Mm hmm. I got my engineering training down in Leonard Woods, So I'm also aware of the lovely place now sticky to delta generator mechanic like, that's where I got mytoric career. Wise, I was a great

monkey turning a wrench, making me like move. That's cool. That's a good way to start. Yeah, hey, Blake, has this controversy been helpful or hurtful to you professionally? Honestly, it has. It has been a trip. It has neither helped I mean, nor hurt me. It taught me a better home. Instead of being in a giant corporate machine like Google, I'm going to startup that really cares about the ethics part of AI. Okay, I was curious about that. Okay, Oh, there's a

lot of ethical questions when we talk about artificial intelligence. I know. I'm listening, learning so much. Yeah, listening. He's pretty good that if they I guess he's goods up there with the with the machine. I mean, but im that. But it can see how it can change you though, when you're doing something and it goes to another thing. Do you see that, disci I'm not sure that I do. I have seen it. I witnessed it just for a few hours on my hour. But you didn't

see it. I didn't one thing to another thing pop into accidentally say to your owl it was a creative accident. Crazy accent crazy. Oh yeah, yeah, yeah that thing zy, Yeah, you get that people, Yeah, you see how them things work? What about you, Blake? Did you catch it? Wait? What's the question? Say again? Oh cool? What was the question about about talking about the computer for a minute and talking my hour for a few minutes, then went into the computer right into

his hour. It's just amazing how it works. That was the question. There's your question. I see what he says. It is amazing how it works. But it works. I know it looks it does. I barely believe it. But here we are, I mean I have to Oh, you're sitting right in front of me. And you saw me what I was talking about, my l Then when I talked to that thing, it went into your ail. Oh sure, it personally right in front of me, but you didn't see it. I didn't notice it. It's it's something up

there. You gotta look at something that goes far beyond the programming schedule of the O'Kelly Radio Network show. Correct. Correct, that's what I was trying to get to, above beyond. Yeah, that's a very smooth little compute greater dom computer. I need it. You see how it works. It's a ghost in a shell. Didn't go you hit it? That was it? What do you think, Blake ghost? What do you think? Oh?

Yeah, the spaceship runs on ghosts. No, seriously, if I was ever going to go back to school, it would be only alchemy of soul creation ocation. Dang, they have classes on that in Oxford. If you took a doctor, if you got a doctor in an indivined like that's serious. Like, if you get a doctorate in divinity, you can study whatever you want within the religious sphere. I didn't know that. Gosh, that's a awful exciting, isn't it awful. I'm surprised. I'm surprised.

Nobody asked Blake if he thought the Internet itself was self aware. If it's like a collective organism in and of itself already that has been created, generated by basically the collective efforts of everyone. If it's not already a self aware of organism, think about all the stuff that's been fed into this thing that is the Internet. You know. That gets back into the question of whether I am colonies can think, and we just don't know the answer to that

question. There you go. I remember some years ago it caused the controversy when somebody thought that Facebook was self aware as now, no, not really, but you know, maybe it has evolved to that point now I don't know. I mean, I think that there is something happening worth studying.

I think using words like the Internet is waking up might be a little hyperbolic, but no, like, yeah, there is some kind of really interesting phenomena happening in aggregate on the Internet, and we should study it more. If there's something to study, then get your pens and type. Ounce not studying, As they say, what do you any thing about that? Jimmy, Jimmy, what do you think about that? Yeah, Jimmy, you got any thoughts on Well, I've always run into the mister Data quandrum.

He's self aware. Remember that brief time where the redheaded doctor was like gone and they had that interim doctor on uh start Yeah, the new generation. He had like this prejudice of goods data And there was like this argument she didn't She said, yeah, he's self aware, but that doesn't mean he's m hm, he doesn't have a soul basically, yeah, and then they did a whole Yeah, you have ever seen the movie Centennial Man. I

think the movie by Centennial Man based on the book by Asimov. It's the same idea, and I think did it better but it didn't have absolutely that was an amazing movie. It's kind of sad and depressing toward the end, but nonetheless is interesting. That's Pinocchio. Pinocchio is a sad story. Oh he that's the one about his nose. He gets long, he's lying, did you know? Well, he just wants to be a real boy. That's the that's the similarity between by Centino Man and Pinocchio. He just wants

to be a real boy. I know that. Mhmm. He who knows a lie? Or if you were a child in the eighties. Number five is alive. I know short circuit and short circuit too. Don't forget that one. Well, people, it's getting close to Christmas. Is everybody completed? Mm hmm. But and that's an answer. I was completed. Everybody completed? Yeah, Blake, are you completed? You said, yeah, oh, very much, so, very much so, got it all worked

out? Completed? Uncle? How about you, Jimmy? You all said for Christmas, Jimmy, well as Chuck nos I. I followed the traditions of festivus and quantity. You get your festivals, your festivus stick ready, I much prepare for my airing of grievances. Isn't that the same Roman tradition where you're supposed to wait a minute? Isn't that the same tradition where you're supposed to like beat your wife and then go home and have sex with a boy. Isn't that the same thing? Or is that not the wait?

This is I was small, never mind, I was thinking of the real I'm sorry, I was thinking of the real origin of Christmas in Rome. Sorry? Sorry, right, that's similar I guess yeah, I can see the similarity. It is. It was a band it was a banded holiday for a long time. Uncle, there's a real weird history to Christmas. Anyway, Sorry, I didn't mean to do that. Festivus sidefeld. Sure

the show got nothing good? What's the deal with the coliseum? By the way, people, we went to the shop shop and we tuned and took some of Mike cons in with they come with the things. He retuned, so we got some new ones. Take that, everybody, take that for the for the show, for Sanday the Sword please, yeah, this Saturday or we have a Saturday show. We're looking at things. Oh, the VHS, the VHS and I'm talking you okay, okay, I'm sorry. You went. You went to the you into the uh the the what do

they call that? Thrift? James? You went to the three door got VHS tapes again, okay? And he bought new ones and took the cuds that we watched send them in. So I'm getting that way I would get more customers. If they get the tape, they'll see it, they'll call it and they see the code boom instant show promote instant. That's it. That's the wood instant, the promotion Chuck. So beware of them. Beware of the VHS tapes put into the podcast cards. See he just we went

and he sent them in. You know, I thought around the Riverside, California area, you may come across those. I thought of you the other day, Uncle, because I saw that they were running Frosty no excuse me, Rootolf the Red Nose Reindeer on TV. And I was thinking to myself, what holiday specials? Since you guys bring up TV and signefilled, what

holiday special specials does Uncle recommend? And I was wondering if everybody on the line wanted to recommend a holiday special to watch, Well, it's those tapes we've been watching. To show them that's your Holiday's your holidays special to watch the ship watch those tapes, then call up my number and you'll get my co producer there. Fair enough, how that that's the column day special? Fair enough? One morning. If anybody says anything about that Star Wars special,

You're going to hell. And I'm hanging up on yourself. That's the way that is. But you don't like that the Star Wars spec. Oh you don't know about it, Uncle, believe me, it's it's it's a horror show, the one from the eighties. Right, Yeah, I haven't seen it yet, so you don't want to jump in ahead, jumping ahead of me, Chuck. No, they tried to listen. They've tried to get rid of this thing for years. It's horrible. It's really movie itself.

All that was a TV show. You know what, if you can get a copy of that, let uncle watch that and just film his reactions to it, because it's gotta beless. You gotta look at it then, because I haven't seen it. That's one that if we aired I feel the copyright claims bite actually start coming in when if we aired that on a live stream, they might be like, you're not allowed to watch this without legal

repercussions. Cease and desist, bare minimum. Maybe probably maybe you could put headphones on him, put him in front of it, and turn the thing on him and just be like, this is just the reactions. We can't show you that. I'll do it that way. Mom won't be put on on my my thing then, because I don't want something like that on my thing. You gotta be careful with these shows. Oh, I didn't know

that. I didn't know that, Okays, all right, I don't think that tape we watched about hummingbirds that the copyright owner is gonna come after that. So no, no, no, because that's that's a learning experience about looking at boods. We all learned, like your payments do exactly Blake. What's the best holiday special out there? Yeah? What is special? Holiday? Root off the red nose rain deer in the Island of Mistic Toys.

Oh yes, I've seen that many times when I was small. Those are the ones that I've been watching EMI almost when I watched when I'm small, EMI year, I watched them main one. There was another one though, with the snow Master. He was going on and and and his brother was the son. Was that the Jack Frost thing where there's the guy with the red hair, he's he becomes Santa? Right? Is that what that's called? That? It's the similar animation to you Cornelius or whatever shows up that

that one, well, that's Rudolph. But then the other one, I must have been made by the same production company. But the but the but the mother or the grandmother said stop, it says stop you brother's you hot co old hot cold hot cold? Yes, hot cold, Yeah, it's that one. Do you call the name of that one? Blake. Do you know that one Blake Hot and Gold. Yeah, and I know those well they had they handed on a holiday special. It's called sink Handles Special.

You know what it was, you know what it was? This guy wanted the little guy was learning to be a tooth me fixing his deck. No, that wasn't Rudolph's d dentist. He's an elf and he's a bit of a misfit himself as Yes, And wasn't it when that big monster though, Yes, what was the big month vomitable snowman? Yeah, yeah, yeah, that was yeah, that was it was that blake to The monster had toothache, that's why he was so mean, and the little bentist else

his tooth and then the monster became nice. Yeah. Yeah, it's this stuff is and that's what that's what it was. This stuff is such a blur to me. I blurre it all together. I can't. I can't even sort it out in my brain. Well, that's it. It is because I watched that one when I'm before I was doing this. Actually I was watching those yes, no, yeah, they're good. I I love stop action animation myself. Uh so I like those things. I always liked

the Rudolph Special. I actually like the California Raisins Christmas Special. I don't know if anybody has caught that or remembers that. That too was stop motion animation that they did actually a good job with that. If anybody remembers that or saw that one, I think they got rid of a kid. I loved it. I think they got rid of the California Raisins because it's like

now considered racist or something. I think, okay, racing the Raisins, it's it's weird because they have certainly attributes kind of why are the California Raisins being canceled? That bikes in the peat sakes, I went through a whole thing looking at it on there reforms and debates about it and all kinds of stuff where it's like, yeah, it's racist. I'm like, wow, okay, dude, I'm an activist and sometimes people take themselves a way too seriously. Yeah, like exactly, I mean really, I'm with you,

but I'm just saying it's just the thing that's happening. Well, I for what it's worth, I always did like the California Raisins, even the commercials. I was a kid, and again I liked animation. I thought it was cool, and so you know, at the time, I liked it. Jimmy, what about you on a Christmas specially you guys? Oh the great. Well, I'll give you the best Christmas special. But first I got a rule in a very popular movie. By just totally destroying the main

key tag line, you'll never think of the movie. Ever, it's the same ever again. Hey, Chuck, remember that one time, many times you were talking about how you used to pick up signals from New York, probably w o R, and you'd hear DJ's that were body w o R. Yeah, it was a TV and a radio. It was an AM radio station and it was the TV station out of New Jersey w o R. Yeah, all right. Do you remember hearing James Shepherd she Shepherd,

Yes, okay, well he's the guy that wrote the Christmas Story. But in those nights shows, those late late night shows that you listen to, when he was telling the story of one he was a kid. Let's just say that that tagline you'll shoot your eye out was applied to a completely different situation. You like that, No, well, you know what you should tell that to missus? Oh? Because she loves that movie anyway. Yeah,

and the best how their movies die Hard? There you go. Yes, yes, I watched that over and over too, but I've seen that. I've seen the vengeance and whatever. What was the other one? Die die harder and diehardiest? The one, the one I got kicked out WI one Engines lately was when when this guy he was the Preen guy back to computer operations, he was working them and he figured it out. And I forgot what they called the movie, but his daughter, uh by Hunt and

the father uh die hard. The father Bruce Willis is his his daughter was in it. And Ben, you should have heard the end of that one. She mentioned some boo said, didn't they didn't They can't go there? Didn't They recently revealed that Bruce Willis has like dementia or something. I mean, oh my god, that there's dying Hard. Uh anyways, sorry, that was well that this this that movie was very interesting. And and then they said watch this boom the White House blew up. Everybody's going out.

Oh that goes on computers. Hey speaking speaking of the computers going down and everything else. Guess what your time is over? Yeah? This is it? So we gotta right, we hit the hour. I get That's what I wanted to know. So why don't we go back to our oh right, first guess was a guess. Yes, give us a shout now and

hopefully you hear us next year at the end of the show. Shout outs before you head out, Blake, at the end of the show, we always give people an opportunity to do shout outs in case you're not understanding what's happening here. So obviously you are the first step down. I understand what you. Also, shout out to my fellow Discordians out there doing great work, and a shout out to my coworkers at Mimeo dot AI. Great working with all of you. There you go, okank you, thank you,

Thank you for guests for tonight. I appreciate it. Yes, thank you. And and also before you go, Blake, is there, do you want to send out your social media handles or at place to find you as well for the audience. Yeah, so you can find me at Cage and Discordian the c A j U N B I S C O R B I A m Cajun Discordians and you can find me either on Twitter or on medium. With that name awesome. Good yeah, thanks again. It was great having you know. It was so much fun speaking with you on both ours

SS so thanks a lot man. We appreciate interesting stuff on Medium. And by the way, I put that link, I put the link to Blake's what do you call it his Twitter handle there into the chatroom at O'Kelly dot com, so you can just click on it and go visit them there right away if you want, go follow them and all that on Twitter x whatever the hell they're calling it. So there you go. I was asking such crack crack room, the crack room of a creative Accidents is in Twitch and

then the Chellie chat. There's quite a bit going on over there. I heard some noise in the e that's why. And we got to get a shout out from Jimmy James. Oh yeah, Jimmy your Knights. Shout out Jimmy, Jimmy, Well, shout out to you guys. Good guess, good show. It's too bad that you'll be gone for a couple of weeks. So next time we'll be back to the Friday scheme, which are you going to predict good things from the Lions and more victories, which we would

talk about at that time. Everyone have a good one and how do you? Oh? Happy Quanta? Take care, Jimmy great, have a nice that reminds me of Bernie Mack in the movie Bad STANDA happy quanza. All the holidays a lot. I'm going on now, tom Yes, we're gonna be I hope you are ready for this. Yeah, a new guy talking tomorrow night. Bet'll be ready for this? Get ready? And you you? Oh me because the next thing, yes, you gotta look. I'll be fine. Oh no, but depending on the drinks. Yeah, do

you remember to listen to uncles? New Year's Revolution New Year's Eves eight pm Pacific, starting at eleven pm Eastern. We'll go for eight hours on our Chili dot com. So be there once again. Eight hours. Hey, whoa, whoa eight hours? You just said we're gonna go for eight hours? Are you crazy? No? No, no, no, no no, We're starting at eight pm Pacific. Yeah. Then you said we're gonna go for hours. I swear we're going for four hours. Hours. Excuse

me, four hours. You're starting at eight is what he means. But he said eight hours. I swear he just said eight hours. No he can't. We will not Mike producer. I will hi, please Hammer, don't hurt him. I won't. Four hours New Year's Eve, click on a chilly dot com New Years. If you'll find us, we'll be there exactly. It'll be easy Blake once again. Thanks man, it's great to have you. We got great being here. That's fun. Yeah yeah, that tod My was fun. Thank you very much. And then Uncle our

websites, Uncle the podcast dot com. Why don't you just bring us home for a week. Uncle three hundred and nineteen m A zoo it is good bye, Bae,