Get ready for.
August twenty eight, twenty twenty five, allegedly, according to that thing we call a calendar, this is Thursday. This is the O'Kelly effect, and I am doing this live regardless of whether people are listening or not. And apologies immediately. My voice is not quite fully recovered from whatever the itck was that I had there, some kind of cold flu, I don't know, but I'm gonna shrudge through, and apologies
in advance for coughing and whatever else. Anyway, I'm really grateful because I've been wanting to get Pierce Redmond back on and I had him scheduled for a couple of weeks ago, but that's when my internet was taken away, so you know, I had no internet. I had no way to contact peers, and he showed up thinking we were doing a live show and I couldn't respond. So he was one of those people that I didn't have. I guess a number stored in a good spot. But whatever,
I'm not blaming anybody. I didn't have internet, couldn't tell him I can't do the show. Would have been a simple matter. But anyway, since then, I've been wanting to, you know, get him back on and I told him a sap. But he's got a life too, and why do I want to talk to him? Well, the Epstein thing and Porkin's Policy Review dot com. That is the website still, isn't it, Piers?
That is still the website.
Okay, I just want to make sure not much, not.
Much happening, but yeah, it is. It is still the website.
Well, but there's an archive, there isn't there.
There is an archive. Yeah, if you and you know, you can search any of the keywords that Epstein Maxwell. I was actually searching it this this morning in preparation for this, and I actually I actually saw that there was stuff that I thought I had tagged that I did it, and so there we go.
Well, look they have it, and anybody you know, independent media wise who isn't blessed with a staff and you know, a box of gold being delivered to their facility like some people you know, And that's a literal true story about somebody in the alleged all media. But we're not here to talk about them today, are we. The thing is, you know, Epstein Maxwell, the circumstances, the currently kind of
fading from the news cycle. I mean, we got new mass shootings, you know, Catholic School in Minneapolis, which oddly I heard media people saying, you know, this is probably a hate crime before they had a motive or even knowledge allegedly of the shooter. H So you know that doesn't bode well because most things that come out of the mouths of reporters during live action events like that, and I do mean to say it as you know, something that is ongoing in real time, most of those
quotes come from what their interaction with police. So police must have been saying this has to be a hate crime. Don't know what inspired that, not saying anybody's a crisis actor or shaking anything, not at all. But isn't it fascinating how the media begins to spend something before they even have all the facts at all. I mean, even if you're trying to be objective about it. Oh, anyway, back to our topic at hand. You know Epstein, what's
going on the Epstein files. We were going to get the client list, all that contramaisy and what do we got? Not much, not much that we didn't already have. And also phase one is apparently, hey, here's all the crap the researchers did. We were not necessarily all your friends anymore, but some of them are magnation and they already had this. But take a look at it like it's a brand new,
shiny object. It reminds me of the guy that in real time turned around, took a quarter from me, shined it up really good, put it back in front of me, and tried to convince me that it was a different quarter. Yeah, that's what they do. In some circles. They might call
it polishing a turn. I'm gonna stop talking real soon, guys, in case you're wondering, because I want to hear from Pierce about how he's viewing the current changes and evolution in the Epstein slash Maxwell saga, because don't forget, Maxwell is a co conspirator. Although I got a little problem here. I mean, was it just a conspiracy of Jeffrey Epstein and Gilaine, just Laine whatever, however you say, you know, Maxwell, Was it just a conspiracy between those two people or
whether others involved? Because I got this odd idea about how nobody else has been prosecuted here. But anyway, put that aside, let's think about the logic of the way this is being sold and spun spind or spun must be spun right, how it is being spun to people? I mean, really, if it's political spinning not a spinning top, is it something that spinned past tense or it's something that was spun. What do you think, pers I mean, I know you're not an English major, but.
It's still spinning at the current right, I mean, it's it's I think they're still spinning this story. And I think, you know, I feel like at the time we last talked about it, I might be wrong, but I think you were. You were a little bit more. I think I was more bullish in terms of this continuing. And I think you thought, oh, I don't know. And and I think that in many ways they are. It hasn't
gone away, and they are continuing. They're having to kind of continue to kind of reinterpret this and and spin new I wouldn't really say they're like it's like new evidence, but certainly people are beginning, I think, to U no longer uh sit on stories. So we've seen that with
the Wall Street Journal, with the S. Birtday Book. We've seen it with the New York Times and these the you know, these articles that they had about with photos showing surveillance cameras in Epstein's brown house in Manhattan, and also other things that I don't know if you that
I saw this. Uh earlier today, I was reading and Reason magazine of of of all places, and published some stuff I guess leaked emails from Ahood Barack, which there was nothing in that that was all that like earth shattering or or big, but it was kind of further confirmation of a lot of things that we knew visa visair relationship Epstein and A. H. Barock, this company Carbine that they were both involved in that sort of changed names.
Uh.
There were also I guess, you know email exchange is between them talking about Peter Teele and others. So you know, I think there's there's a lot more eyeballs on it, and there are more certainly in the I guess what Trump would deem as a liberal leftist media like CNN and MSNBC and outlets like that, they are covering it every day, and I think that even places like Fox News and Newsmax are kind of being forced to either
dismiss it or or change tuned completely. And somehow the the story is evolving to a place where Maxwell is actually the victim. And you're seeing a lot of these right wing Trump kind of cult members that are certainly following the orders of the Guru and are completely parroting that idea that Maxwell is some sort of victim, that she's very courageous for speaking with Todd Blanche and so, yeah, I don't know, I mean, it's it's a I I still I still think I'm not sure that this will
be his complete undoing. I think that that is probably you know, that this one thing is I don't know if it's enough, but it is certainly he's unraveling, I think. And you see that more with I mean, it seems like every you know, with each passing news report about this, or just each each time that a reporter is bringing this up, he's gonna declare martial law in another state. You know, He's threatened New York. He's he's gonna go
to other places as well. He's obviously trying to take over Washington.
D C.
So I mean, that's uh, it's it's it's fascinating that for Trump, the way to distract people is not bringing not fighting a war overseas, it's just bringing that war home, declaring martial law in Washington, d c. Or threatening to do it in other states, as opposed to just say bombing, you know, a pharmacy in Sudan, right famously Bill Clinton did so.
I have one question for you about this, and that is that have you taken note of any shift or pivot from the people that are far right of Gutfeld in the podcasting and media world who do make their money off of you know, hey, you know what, I'm all in on Trump, And by the way, by this particular powder and I have my own energy drink, and you know, I also have gun products, which, by the way, I don't object to anybody hawking whatever people are willing
to buy. But when they tell you your literal freedom depends on you know, your energy drink, it gets a little weird for me. But anyway, have you taken note of any of those guys and the strange pivot that's gone on recently, because to me, I'm seeing that yes, indeed, this is not something that could instantly quash in the news cycle, but it is being incrementally changed. And quick note on CNN, just real fast, I don't know, you know, people have argued with me over the years You're ridiculous.
They're left bringers there after Trump. See, they don't understand
the dynamic here the major shareholders. If you take a look at the people that actually own and control CNN, Okay, not kidding CNN directly, but also you take a look at the different corporate individuals and entities that are involved in that media company, and you examine who it is they gave money to in the last election cycle and the last time that Trump was also victorious, You'll notice that CNN is one of his best campaign contributor contributors,
not just on regular paper but through their shell companies, through the packs. You know, it's sort of like, well, you know, the Kochs are supporting these left bring organizations times because they have different views, and I'm like, no, they're supporting badly standing left wing organizations, so that the right wing organizations are supporting what you can afford to do.
If you make a couple of million dollars an hour, you know, you can support a poorly designed adversary and a well designed enemy and allow them to fight in public to make a point. Oh wait, that's kind of the formula for the WWE, and that's what you do Okay, so CNN is literally living off of the content they make out of Trump, however you want to view it. And eventually they do apologize back off, and they're being inundated with plenty of mag of people now who are
making the other argument. And you know, they pay Abby Phillips to sit there and go, well, that doesn't make any sense. They do that now instead of Don Lemon going this doesn't make any sense. And now in the next hour we're going to play how racist is it? You know, Don Lemon is out there trying to do a thing and he's surviving as a blessed podcaster as well. But on the left, nobody's paying attention. There's an interesting guy named uh oh god, what is He's got an
odd name. He's an Arab guy who is on the left. You know what I'm talking about, I'm not sure. On CNN, no no, no, in the podcast sphere, if you will, they were accusing him of taking money from Qatar for a little bit, and then you know they found out that wasn't true. And you know, he recently did a round the uh no, the Arab guy very short had time.
He recently did a round thing where he brought a bunch of magat people into a room, got surrounded by them, and got them to admit that they liked fascism and stuff like that. You know, is your thing? No, no, it's not the guy I got. I gotta look it
up really quick. But anyway, my point that I wanted in the question, which is now lost in my babbling, is have you observed that the right wing media sphere is doing And I do mean the constant radio shows that still exist on you know, terrestrial radio, uh, you know, mostly brought to you by Fox News, but there's still some indies trying to creep in and become the next uh, you know, Bondi, or or become the next you know, deputy director of what is he the NBI d o J.
I forget, what's that guy anyway? Who cares? I don't know, Bino, Yeah, whatever the hell he's allegedly doing and was outraged about, or you know, the next cash Betel without money, Uh you know, something like that.
Uh.
Either way, there's a sphere that goes from the very obvious in the corporate to the fringe, and they are all effectively uh you know, living on the Trump side of the fence regardless of what any of their past you know, discussions, were their ideas about the Constitution in air quotes, uh, et cetera. It's okay, constitution is something we can beat everybody over the ad with until our guy breaks it, in which case, you know what, That's
the way it was supposed to be. You know those guys who are out there like Trump's a hero right now, everything's going good. I mean, they're literally locked into a greater, more intense propaganda machine than Fox News ever was. Have you taken any observations as to their pivot lately.
I mean, yeah, I've definitely. I mean I would say, like the obviously, like the big one that I think even people who are completely removed from this would know is like the Joe Rogan kind of you know, pivot from Trump is Messiah to what's going on here? He's covering everything up and and I think that, I mean, I think they're they're they're really uh, I think they
they're unsure of what they're supposed to be doing. I think this is like so I think for any of them, like the kind of more twirpy you know, Charlie Kirk, I mean he he seems completely content to just do whatever Trump calls him up and tells him to do. So you're you know, you see him suddenly saying release the files. And then the next day is I trust the government. I love the government. They know what they're doing. Maxwell as a hero, we should applaud her. But you know,
and that's kind of like part for the course. I think that's like, of course you would be so spineless as to defend a pedophile and certainly, you know, at the best case scenario just an enabler of a pedophile and at the worst case someone that was involved in abuse and in trafficking people. That doesn't shock me. Some of the other people, though, on the right wing, it it I think they like I saw, I think.
This was on.
Like Piers Morgan has a TV show. I don't even know what the network is. I saw this on YouTube. But there were even you know, even Jack Paso bit or whatever the hell his name is, who works at who Human Events now, and you know, he was a Guantanamo intelligence officer. He's one of these just right wing bigot Trump supporters. Even he is like super pissed. I mean,
this was this was arguably several weeks ago. I'm not sure what his view is now, but he seemed to be I think, kind of like shell shocked by this realization that this person that was claiming to be the answer to all of these things is actually covering it up. And then the further question is like why are they covering it up? So yeah, I mean I have noticed it. I think that it's it's It's interesting though all the same,
how people are able to kind of dismiss it. I mean I've seen you know, I mean, obviously people like Alex Jones are you know, schizophrenic and the what they will support of what they want support. And he seems to be kind of just almost like a this whole movement on steroids. She probably is on also, but he doesn't seem to know which way he's going.
You know.
I saw that he was, you know, he was saying that that people from Trump's office were calling him telling him to stop doing this. He's defended Trump and I've seen something he's gone after him. This is really Trump's you know, double secret three D chess deep state ploy, you know. So yeah, I don't know it. It's fascinating. I think though, that the thing that is interesting to me is that there are enough people within his movement and and also just people are you know, right wingers
that dislike him for whatever reason. And we see that with some of the people in Congress that are certainly not you know, they're not I don't know that I would say on ninety nine percent of the things they would agree with Trump, but for whatever reason they dislike him. There's enough of a I don't know, political will to pursue it. And I think that I don't know that I'm not sure that they're fully aware of what they are pursuing. I think that many of these people think
they can. It's funny, I find the more and more I look at this and you see all these people like you see Trump and Bondye and the response they've had. They always seem to think they can handle this. They know what they're gonna do. And you see that too with a lot of these like right wing radio hosts. They think, no, no, I can spin this, I can spin this. This is good for us, don't worry. And I think what what is happening more and more is that the people listening to these people are just even
more incensed. And and you see that like with like the like the timeline of events that uh has transpired with this like this the original you know, when they initially sort of renegged on their promise to release the Epstein files. Then you know, a few days later, Trump is complaining to his bass. Then the Wall Street Journals you know, comes out with the the this Epstein birthday book story, and Bondie fires Maureen Comy. Then the Wall
Street Journal, you know, publishes the story. Then suddenly Blanche is gonna meet with Maxwell, and you know, then they're they're meeting with Maxwell, and then you know, initially Maxwell claims, oh, I don't know anything about this, you know, recruiting from mar Alago. And then you know, a day later, Maxwell says, oh, well, you know what, actually maybe maybe we did recruit someone from mar Alago. And there she's obviously talking about ju free,
but did her name? And then a few days later Trump is says, oh, no, well, actually Jeffrey was stolen from our a Lago. He you know, she worked there, and I don't know Epstein, you know, hand picked her and moved her over there. And then suddenly Maxwell's moved
to a new prison location. Then you've got the new York Times Brownstone story where they published photos where you can see the surveillance equipment, and then they released the Maxwell transcripts, which you know, I was I have not listened to all six hours of it, but just jumping around listening to clips that, you know, the kind of like newsworthy ones that all the kind of main media had, and then plus I would just sort of I would just sort of jump around between the six hours and
just sort of pick a spot, and it's it's like a complete It is just six hours of Maxwell basically saying she is the victim. Everything is everyone was against her, nothing bad really happened. Everything is fake, you know, according to her. I mean, it's like right out of Trump's playbook. But and we could we should get to that a little bit. But I just find this story it just keeps unraveling, and they keep thinking that, oh, Okay, if we do this, then everyone will kind of move on,
and it doesn't work. So I I think that with the I think that the the congressional hearings that are going into this, my sense is that they I think they're looking for something. I think they're obviously from who they want to subpoena that they're obviously, you know, with the power the Republicans have in the House, they're trying
to kind of pin this onto the Democrats. But they are also asking people like Acosta is going to be there, He's going to be answering questions, and you know it's Acosta has said some pretty crazy things in the past, including that, you know, he was told to back off of the Epstein stuff because of his connections to intelligence. I think anyone you know, on that committee that gets there five minutes or whatever can ask him, you know, what the hell, why what happened? Why did Trump? You know,
did you what was going on there? What about the Sweetheart deal? So I think that they believe that they can kind of control this story, but this story is uncontrollable, and it just seems to be getting worse.
And.
This constant attempt Like I saw some interview with Jim Jordan basically on Fox being like, yeah, there's nothing to see here. You know, Maxwell is innocent, and you know, she said that Trump didn't do anything wrong. Let's move on. And I mean it's just insane. Can you imagine if this was Biden, right, and these allegations were about him.
Well, that's the interesting thing. There's always a hypocrisy built in, and I'll just like, let you run here. I didn't want to interrupt you because I wanted to listen in real time to your thought process. And I've got to say, you know, look, you and I disagree from time to time on certain things, and occasionally I gotta be fair with you. You know, sometimes you got to flip a coin as to which one of us sees this the correct way when it comes to the way certain things
are going to play out. And that's what's happened over the years. That's why I love talking to you, by the way, because I'm not always right and you're not always wrong. You know what I'm saying. It's greatest. We haven't a back and forth here, and my argument is very simple. Oh, by the way, Ziteo is the name of the media organization this guy started, and his last
name is a San. I thought you meant his first name was the San, but I didn't have that off the top of my head, Mehdi or something like that. I'm probably butchering the name. Eh oh. Yes, So it's
like Mehdi Hassan. He's a left wing guy who literally said, you know what, surround me with maga people, and I'm gonna have him at the mic one by one and let the other mag of people throw up red flags around us, you know, to say, you know, when it's time to cut this guy off and let them debate me with whatever points they think I'm an idiot liberal about. And it was pretty fascinating to be honest with you.
I know, I know him. He used to work for Al Jazeera for many years, and then he went to The Intercept and then MSNBC and now yeah, he has his own I know him from from interviewing recently Miss Rachel. She is a kids she makes kids content, but she's also been very outspoken about the atrocities in Gaza. So anyone with a one year old or you know, older will probably know who Miss Rachel is.
Okay, cool. I you know, I don't know Miss Rachel because my my youngest is now eleven. But believe me, I understand.
Yeah, I think, yeah, yeah, I think Frankie is probably phased out of the Miss Rachel sort of. She's sort of like a the new mister Rogers.
Gotcha, No, No, I understand. Look, there are these trends that come along. When Frankie was little, they were doing this, you know, say hello to your fingers thing online and somebody created that. That was a big deal. And the gaming channels where there were families playing games were a huge thing for your kids to watch. And it came along with songs and everything else. You know, you go into the nineties. I remember women, I knew young women
with kids, and you couldn't escape Barney. Look, there's always a trend among kids that you can't escape if they're ever exposed to the media broadcast other kids.
Forget it.
It's over that you're stuck with something. And I guess miss Rachel's the current thing. Don't tell me anything else about it, please, because no matter what it is, whether it's baby shark, it doesn't matter. It's gonna drive you insane if you're a parent for a little while, I promise you, okay, And you know, look, and I'm very happy for you. I don't want to discuss things, but I'm very happy for your change in family situation, which
is very recent. And as a first time parent, you're going to experience some things that no matter what I tell you, you're just gonna have to do them. Quite frankly and sorry to say, and look for those people to take them all on the left wing side. I always love to point these things out, and Pierce might disagree with me about this too. Just current event, totally not tied to the Epstein thing or anything. What's happening at
the CDC right now. I'm kind of happy about it, but I worry as to what the payoff to Big Farm is going to be, because they're not going to just go out of business. So I'm a little worried about the other shoe that drops that nobody hears in the woods when it comes to things like this. So you know, Bobby Kennedy legitimately wants to do some of what he's doing. How far that'll go and what the background deal on that is going to be or is already in place, We're going to find out later and
it's going to probably be unfortunate. But on the surface, I'm happy about what I see there a peers. You might not be when it comes to vaccinations and you know, and the weird things going on and people resigning and saying, oh, it's now more dangerous in America because we don't have the ability to you know, enforce these things on people if we don't have all these people in place, and we did the science, even though they didn't do a lot of studies. People like me have said this for years.
They made declarations without studies, despite what the propaganda says, and that, no matter what your position is, should be alarming. So, you know the fact that some people are resigning and being fired over that, I'm not upset. I'm actually if Trump wasn't a complete disaster in eighty other places might
be starting to side with his administration over this. And in fact, that's a dangerous lesson for a lot of people who got their niche thing addressed without ever taking into account the ramifications of that or the rest of what goes on around. You know, if this place serves me a good cheeseburger, I don't care if they're raping and murdering people in the back room is almost a lot.
I mean, yeah, look at all the people, I mean just say in that with what you're saying, Look at all the people that voted for him, because he was going to round up all the pedophiles. He was gonna he was going to blow the you know, blow the lid off of Epstein and how it's all the Democrats and they're they're murdering children, and you know they're they're using their adrenaline and sex parties and all this. You know that that's that's it was a broad swath of
people voted for him, probably for that one thing. I mean, you could look at the same people to all these I mean, I don't want to call them idiots, but you see you see this like every day when you're on YouTube, it's like another news clip of some poor you know, Hispanic voter who voted for Trump and now they're like, you know, niece is being deported, or they're being deported, or someone they love is is being rounded up.
I mean, these are people that like voted for him and they were like convinced, no, no, he's going to you know, he's going to round up the drug dealers, not the you know, the guys that are you know, hanging out at home depot getting contracting work. Well yeah, I mean there's so many of them. We're willing to look beyond what he has been saying about, you know, these evil immigrants coming in and stealing our jobs and
raping everybody and stuff. And you know that you just assume no, no, no, it'll be fine, and you know it's completely working against them.
Yeah. Well that's the funny thing is like there's still a look of shock. See there's two things going on that are interesting though. The look of shock on the lady who goes. I didn't think they were going to come and take Jose the ice cream man, which they did. In a couple of communities they took.
Like, yeah, the one in like, uh, what is it in, like Los Angeles or something, Well.
There's one in LA. But there was a couple like somewhere in the Midwest too, where it was like, this is like Jose the ice cream guy. He's been around here for thirty years. He never bothered anybody, and they're like, they took that guy. And recently they also took firefighters who were fighting you know, massive wild fighters. They fires. They went to the fire department where like you have any illegal immigrants and they were like, well, you could check,
but we're in the middle of fighting fires. They waited for them to go on break and took them. You know, that doesn't sound to me like the murders and rapists and you know, cartel people. But then again, you know, I'm told they are anyway, and oh well, you know, nobody wants to pay attention to that part of it. But here's here's the amazing thing. You see the individual look of horror on why did they take the maid? Why did they take the guy who sweeps the sidewalk?
Why did they take the ice cream man? Why did they take your guys from home depot?
Damn it?
How come I can't get guys to do my field work, et cetera. You know, I wonder what these guys with the I mean, I guess there's machines now, maybe at the wineries, the vineyards in calip I don't know how that's gonna work out. But anyway, you see looks of surprise from that, and yet is there a significant drop
in his support? No. See, that's the thing is that, as much as it may horrify that women they get on camera, who's willing to talk to the local newsperson standing there with their you know, phone on a stick, because that's how they send out most reporters now in most cities, by the way, here, take your phone on a stick, use your own car. We'll give you some gas. Go. That's what they do. In serious, in mid in mid and even major size cities, they don't have a cameraman
at a truck anymore. Mostly they have down sized. And it's usually the you know, you got a good iPhone, Great, here's a stick so you can film yourself. Is literally what's happening. It's cheaper, way, easier, faster anyway. But that look of horror is not counterbalanced by a significant group of people disappearing. Sure, it's an example of somebody going, I can't believe this is happening. How come there's no guys at the own deepo to help me fix my cabinets?
You know, holcome the ice cream man got taken away? They took firefighters. Oh my god. Yet you didn't realize how many people might have not had their paperwork straight. They were doing a lot of jobs. I get it, okay, And that is the point, or it's the liberal media trying to sell it to you. He's not really losing anything, and he's still pretty much maintaining his support. I mean,
en mass. And here's the thing, even if you want to bring up this immigration thing, I got got to play this TikTok video please because and it's the audio and I think it's less than it might be a minute in something, but it's it's titled let's talk about immigration hypocrisy in the Trump family. And the reason why I bring this up is not even to attack him.
I just wonder how it is that we can be morally indignant about so many things that are in our wheelhouse of issues and when it's your guy and it doesn't matter, by the way, any side does this. You know, we care about family values until their guy doesn't care about family values. We care about drug problems until they find out, you know, their kids have a drug problem. We care about It's amazing. I mean, we are literally the land of hypocrisy that doesn't want to, you know,
face itself. I don't know what do you even call that anymore? You know, telling the truth? I mean that's a bygone conclusion because whose truth is it? But here's this this TikTok, which yeah, obviously it's somebody who's opposed to Trump, But can you argue with the facts that are in this And even if you can argue with one or two, can you eliminate all of this interesting information about the dynamic when somebody's trying to remove if you're born here, you're a citizen. If you have this,
you're a citizen. Also. Can I just take you know, people who have their citizen papers and send them to foreign countries to screw them. Uh? You know those statements, all that stuff line it up against a little bit of recent ancestral history. You know that you should be able to see on ancestry dot com regarding you know, the current president. That's all. That's the point of listen. Let's take a listen, peers and see if we can learn anything from this. I'm sure you know all this,
but let's see if we can learn something here. Let's see come on.
The green cards for me, but not for thee.
Today we're gonna roll back the tape and do a quick bick recap on first gen American Donald Trump and his immigrant family. Of course, the story begends with Grandpa Drum, German immigrant came to the US at sixteen, eventually tried to return to Germany but was deported for dodging military service.
Okay, you can hear this right, yes, okay, good. I just want to make sure you could hear it clearly. And obviously we've covered you know, original drump coming to America, tried to return to Germany and was ejected from Germany because he had failed to take care of his military service, so they didn't want him back. That's by the way, I had no objection. Who knows, maybe he was a pacifist. I'm not saying there's a problem there. But let's just
face the reality of the history. And now I'm gonna let it continue unmolested here and Pierce and I are going to listen. But I wanted to be sure Pierce could hear this because I didn't test to begin with guys forty listening. Anyway, here we go.
Friedrich Drumf married another German woman and together they had Fred Donnie T's dad. Fred Trump built his fortune using government subsidies to build affordable housing. He was later investigated by the Senate for profiteering and sued by the Justice Department for racially discriminatory housing practices.
Okay, a little inaccuracy there. I'm not sure how much of the government subsidized housing he actually built, but he did bring in a lot of money from government subsidies to maintain things, to install new things, to improve the government housing that he was offering up as here's my chief alternative, so I can get you know, like section eight payments, it was called something else then, I think, But either way, this was the business he was in, and that's just you know, I just point that out,
and I'm not sure if she's entirely accurate there. Anyway, let's let it continue.
Fred married Mary Ann trump Done' mom. She was a poor Scottish immigrant who came to New York and worked as a maid. In a nineteen forty US census, she falsely claimed that she was a US citizen, even though records showed that she didn't become a citizen until two years later nineteen forty two.
Now let's talk wives.
Donni TI's first wife, Evanna, was an immigrant from Czechoslovakia. All three of their children, Eric, Ivanka, and Don Junior were all born before she was a US citizen, and despite being married to a US citizen, Donald Trump, it still took her eleven years to get her citizenship. And then, of course, his third and current wife, Milania, born in Slovenia, came on a visitor visa, worked illegally as a model, and somehow landed in Einstein visa and then used chain
migration to bring her parents over. Her son, Baron, also born before she was a US citizen.
So essentially, what we've learned is that.
Trump's entire existence and that of his children is thanks to the very same immigration policies that he's fought so hard to destroy. So next time somebody says come the right way, ask them if that also includes the Trump family.
Oh yeah, So I do find that an interesting question, right, because according to a lot of things that have been argued, supported, demanded as of late by the president, is you know, acolytes, his sick offhants and the rest of the people that show up at rallies. You know, seems to me like most of his family, ex wives, everybody should have been deported at certain points here, you know, and maybe he doesn't belong here. Oh, by the way, does that mean
he shouldn't be president? I mean, I'm just questioning. So really, if you follow the chain, now, I don't agree with any of that. By the way, I think that if you're born here, as I've understood it, that's your citizen. They change the law or change up the constitution after that, you know, there's this thing called a grandfather clause where you know, that's the way the law was before. When you did this thing, we can't rewind to go. They changed the law, so now we got to punish you
for a crime. Now we have to deport you because you're not I think that's the way the law works. But then again, I'm crazy. So you know, there's a logic there that if you try and present this to somebody who is all in, they just, you know, completely spit it. It's sort of like throwing a cat onto a table when you're trying to build a house of cards. You know, they might not be interested in that house of cards, but that house card is going to fall if you throw that cat on the table. And that's
what they do to your logical argument. That's what they do to their own arguments. That's what happens to everything. And at the end of it, you're just happy the cat didn't scratch you. I mean, that's literally the metaphorum looking for you here. Maybe I'm again out of line, and I'm not even trying to be against the guy. In fact, today would be a good day for me to be for the Trump administration because of the action
at the CDC. I mean, I could pick out that and I could say, finally, somebody's doing the things and saying some of the things, including we're one of the most medicated populations on the planet and yet we're still very sick. Something doesn't make sense here. Bobby Kennedy was saying that today and has said that many times, and that's a sentence that comes out of my mouth almost
similar one often. So somebody who is actually enacting my will under the Trump administration, I'm still concerned as to
what the price of that is going to be. And even though it may be a nice little victory here or there, you know, I always have this sneaking suspicion that when they give you something nice, you know, there are certain people that only give you something to either a get something or to distract you from something there taking from you, and they give you a little prize, you know, when somebody's house burns down and they show
up with a sandwich. Yes, you're grateful for the sandwich, but if the same person who gave you the sandwich burned your house down, you're thinking maybe you lost in that equation. Just saying, but I know, none of that makes any sense, Piers. Maybe that's your thoughts for later. But when we look at this Maxwell slash Epstein situation, I have that same feeling. You know, here we go, we're not going to give you much, but by the time we do. Maybe it's my experience with the JFK
stuff that's done this to me. You know, by the time they give you something, they've already stolen ten things, They've already declined to prosecute certain people, they've already removed people from the list in quotes, they've already so, you know, and the spin is happening. I think incrementally it's going to get cushed and over time, this outrage it's not even going to put a dent in his popularity and his efforts to maybe even take a third term, which,
by the way, according to the Constitution. You know, that thing I thought wasn't even a question, But everything is now questionable, depending on what you want the answer to be anymore in America. That's the new reality in which we find ourselves, which is why I figure not only is his positive media going to quash it, but his alleged opposite, you know, the media that's allegedly in opposition to him, is going to let it fade. I think they're already doing it. It's not at the top of
the headlines anymore, Piers not mostly. But then again, here's the version your algorithms. Your algorithms may vary goohd no, No, I think.
That's true too. I mean, you know, what, what I'm looking at when I google it is probably different than what you know everyone else is seeing when they google it. It's listening. But I think I still, I still believe this has serious traction, and I think it might be going away among certain aspects or certain swaths of his supporters and stuff are willing to kind of turn a blind eye and stuff like that.
But I.
Still think that I'm fairly certain he won't pardon Maxwell. But even that seems like, I don't know, maybe he will, you know, I mean, I would like to think that that is like a red line that even he won't cross. I don't know how he would explain that. But the fact that that's even being floated, that he's even floating it, is shocking, and I think that that's shocking to people.
But I still think that there are now so many eyeballs on it that weren't previously, And I think there are people that are that we're sitting on stories like the Wall Street Journal, New York Times, CNN, others like that, and they now see an opening and I'm gonna see more of that. I don't think that it's necessary, Like,
you know, there is no smoking gun. There's not going to be a you know, video that's going to come out that definitively proves that, you know, Trump was with Epstein partying and having sex with you know, underage individuals. I don't think that's ever going to come out. But I think that this has the potential to really unravel the administration. And I still think that at this moment right now, he is so the administration has become so insular, and now it's like he's kind of he's stuck. He
can't replace any of these people. He can't get rid of Bondie, he can't get rid of Ptellit, he can't get rid of Bongino, you know, all these Todd Blanche and others. I mean, And in some ways you could think, oh, well, yeah, it's just sort of strengthening it. But in other ways, I think it really kind of like it locks him in and now these people also have power over him. You know, you can't get rid of me, because if you get rid of me, I'll, you know, I'll leak
such and such a story. And I still think that also that this particular story is so vast and far reaching. There are so many people involved in this, and it is it is an event or you know, a period of time that has never I don't think that people have ever really been able to control the narrative at times, people on the left, people on the right, they've been able to kind of control it to an extent. You know,
it's all Bill Clinton. No, it's all Donald Trump, you know, those sort of looking at through everything in these sort of political lenses. But I think more people are beginning to see that there are victims involved in this. There are people that want to know there are there's more at stake than this, and I think that none of them really have a sense of how powerful this is. Now.
It's it's completely possible too on the you know that because so many people are involved in this, will never really know to somehow it will get, you know, quashed. But I think that even if it does get quashed like that, enough people will will understand and will remember why is that, you know, I mean just just thinking you know about this before and then you know, when you were talking about you know, CNN, and then the
true sort of like puppet masters there. This was something that I didn't know until you know, a few days ago or today actually is that you know, Bill Gates has been meeting with Donald Trump in the White House. They would have these private now and I really really doubt that they were talking about Gates, you know, global health initiatives. I'm sure they were talking about Epstein and I'm sure they were talking about Epstein when they had
this private dinner, you know, before he was inaugurated. And you know, it's that kind of stuck you know, I mean, which you could look at that and be like, nothing is going to come out because if Bill Gates and Donald Trump can agree on one thing, and it's that. But at the same time, I really do think that
there are so many more eyeballs on this. There are more people that are speaking out about this, even you know, people that had like Maria Farmer, who and maybe I'm wrong, but I you know, before all of this came out, I don't believe she ever spoke really negatively about Donald Trump.
And now she is she is telling people about you know, stories when you know, going to Epstein's office in the middle of the night and seeing Donald Trump there and Epstein telling her no that you know, she's not for you, or something to that effect.
Yeah. There, here's here's the issue I have with what you're saying. And look, you're my friend. You know, I'm not trying to destroy you, Okay, I'm not trying to even debate you full on. I just offer some counterpoints. And here's the problem with this idea of well, he can't get rid of BONDI and you can't get rid of bond Gino. I think that's bs. And here's why in order to you know, leverage somebody with that kind
of information in order to perform blackmail. Let's remove all of the issues from this, except that in order to blackmail somebody, in order to leverage somebody with information, right, you have to be able to identify that is, you know, valuable. You have to be able to access it and control it, okay, and then you have to be able to communicate to your mark that you have the ability. And a lot of people get to that part and they can communicate
the threat or the ability. I mean, you know, Elon Musk communicate it a threat on Twitter and then changes his mind about it. You know, Trump is in the epstet piles. I'm sorry, I was angry. Yeah, I mean, okay,
Bondi and Bongino could communicate that threat. But the level of competence it would require to identify, capture, and then control information in order to successfully utilize it as leverage requires a level of competence that I think these characters that you think are locked in do not possess, and you know, evident by making public statements that make you look like a fool. Uh, you know, regarding he's ready to quit, you know how many months ago now Longino, he's ready to quit over this?
No, No, I agree, I agree. I think that they I mean I think that if anything, it just illustrates that the I mean, how incompetent. Yeah, they are as an administrat you know. And it's so funny too because it's like, oh, they're gonna they're gonna do, you know, destroy the deep state, and it's like, well, best case scenario, they're completely incompetent.
They can't even crisis manage this story. So I don't know how they're gonna take on the deep state, and then it's like, you know, worst case scenario, this is the deep state. This is how incompetent they are, you know, this is like this is well, these are the front the best that they can offer.
These are the front men and the secondary front man. Because reality is different. Look, never forget that he had to get rid of Komy, even though Komi had successfully put out information right before an election that he won that undermined you know, Hillary, which I you know, I still say to this day, the CIA could not have even convincingly, uh, you know, stolen that election for her in public. But you know, so that's why we got
Trump in the first place. But remember this, He replaced Komi and got Christopher Ray in there because that was his guy, and he seemed to be doing his bidding. He seemed to be doing a lot of stuff. And then eventually Christopher Ray is actually an enemy of these other people.
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The views expressed my caller schools there anyone else who happens to get on the air. Jelly dot com do not necessarily Reples dot com and we are not responsible for any stupidity which might ensue. Thank you.
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So we returned from a quick break. There little technical issue, but I was in the midst of talking about Christopher Ray and the changeover from He's Trump's guy to replace call me too, he's part of the deep state, but also recognized that John Bolton had to be removed. Uh and then he was no longer a good guy, and he was on a media tour, and then he put out a book, and then recently they raided his house. So you go from being I know, the best people
to your an enemy of the state. And I don't know, it doesn't seem like these guys' behaviors changed.
Uh.
So I'm thinking, you know, Bondi Bongino, I mean, what, they're not eligible for the John Bolton or the Christopher Ray treatment appears. I mean, that's my objection, and I turn it to you with that.
I think you're I think it's a valid point, and I think that it's totally possible, especially with someone as mercurial as Trump. He could turn on a dime, obviously, and he does every day.
And he's transactional He's transactional always, so you know, remember that it's about the last transaction. What have you done for me lately? They might have said in the eighties, but you know, here, here we go.
Sorry, go ahead, No, No, I mean I think that, but maybe I'm wrong. I might be I might be over estimating this, But I think that when it comes to this particular issue, the Epstein stuff, this child trafficking, pedophilia, this hits with his base in a way that almost
nothing else does. And and it was interesting we were talking earlier about these you know, these poor people that are getting uh, you know, rounded up by ice and they're being you know, rendered to different prisons across the United States or being sent you know to El Salvador or Mexico or you know, and then sometimes places they're
not even actually from. And that that makes you know, some people that vote for oh, I can't believe they you know, they got rid of this guy who was his beloved ice cream man and blah blah blah, and it's kind of like a blip, and it kind of like leaves. But and that's like someone that they might actually have a personal relationship with. Yet there's all of these these kind of faceless, nameless victims out there that
you know mean everything to these people. And it's funny because even even the actual like victims that are involved in this, like you know, Jeffree who's no longer with us, Maria Farmer, Courtney Wild, Sarah Ransom, you know, so these
people that are their names have come out. I mean, to them, they don't even really like see those people, you know, but it's it's all the all the girls, all the women, you know, Epstein, They're just they're they're doing all somehow that this amorphous group of people they can't really name that means everything to them. And I think there is some power there, and I think that they the for me, at least the number of people
that voted for him based on that. I don't think that he can just turn that off and convince them no. So I don't know. To me, I think it's just true he could totally turn on these people like Bondi
and others. And I think it's interesting that someone like Bolton does does have a little bit of juice enough to go on CNN and be like he's an idiot to write a book, and you see the response to that is that they're raiding his house and you know, I don't know, he's keeping national security secrets and he's being removed from the you know, his CIA daily briefings
and all that kind of stuff. But I think Bolton has enough juice to you know, for him, it's like okay, whatever, like let's let's do it.
You know.
I mean, this is like a Neocon these Neocon royalty. I don't know, but I don't think he's gonna like, I don't think that Bolton is and it suddenly just stop. But and I do think that he could turn on these other people, but I think that if he does, I do think his base is going to have a reaction.
And I think that he's he's trying his best to tiptoe around it and to manage it, and in some respects it is working because I think you are right, the kind of like magnifying glass on this is maybe not as powerful as it was a few weeks ago, but it's not going away. Johnson's attempts to make it disappear, you know, at the summer recess, I mean it's completely meaningless. They're going to come back and they're going to vote
on this. There's already a committee that is subpoenaing all sorts of people, including Acosta, And I don't think it's going to end with this one committee hearing. And yeah, I don't know, I think it. I don't think it has the power to like take down the presidency the way that some people in the media that dislike him
might think. But for me, at least, the fact that there will never be a history book written that doesn't have to have a chapter on this that I think is like a pretty big blow to someone like Trump. And I think that's what drives him. It's not, you know, it's not what the media thinks about him. It's the fact that this is going to be in the history books.
There's no way to avoid this. And I do think that there now you're beginning to see not like cracks in this, but he has said this is all made up, it's none of it's real. Maxwell is saying none of this is real. And then you have people like Brad Edwards, who he was, you know, an attorney for that represented many of the victims, he's saying, who has actually been favorable to Trump, but he's always said that Trump cooperated with him. Trump was willing to go on the record
with him. You know when when Courtney Wilde was one of his clients, was suing Epstein, So you know, Trump is one that was you know at the time he wanted to talk to Edwards. Okay, okay, any thing I know about Epstein.
I now have to interrupt you, because, first of all, if you examine the way that Trump has handled depositions and lawsuits in the past, you know that's not going to be a productive deposition no matter what you're looking for, because that is.
His and I think it's BS two. And in fact, it wasn't even a deposition he did. They did not. I don't think they truly subpoenaed him. He spoke just on the record to him. He's just like talked on the phone. But even worse, there was no deposition.
Even worse because when he's in an adversarial position with lawyers actually questioning him, it gets really strange. I mean, you can look at any of the released stuff from you know, various lawsuits against whether it's Trump University or it's you know, the sex assault you know deal, It is such a nightmare of this guy is actually skilled in making sure you get nothing done when it comes
to trying to depose him. So no matter what methodology, how loose it is, how committed it is, how legal and lawful it is, how much on the record, it's all irrelevant. One. Two here's another thing that just amazes me. See this will have to be in the history, but you're forgetting something. The people that were with him on the He's going to get the pedophiles thing were with him in twenty fifteen. They witnessed what happened with Epstein.
They witnessed the suicide, which they questioned. They witnessed all of that. Then he left office and Maxwell was taken in while Biden was in office. If you listen to those people now about the history, they're fully willing to accept that Epstein committed suicide under no I know, I know. So the adjustment of the timeline is like these people that argue Mandela effect with me, it's just nope, it was this way, but it wasn't yes, it was what do you do with that? So the acceptable history that
could be written out of this. And I talked to Larry Hancock last night about how history is being manipulated and politicized, and this is exactly the kind of thing that's going to create false histories, and people are celebrating over false histories that claim to want the truth the history. This is where we're at. So I gotta tell you your point doesn't stand very well with me considering what
I'm watching happen in real time. I mean, it's like they blame stuff on Obama when he's not even in office. They say, well, you had control from the outside. I mean, I have no way of stopping the intellectual contortions of those that will change the timeline, change the power dynamic change who was responsible? And they're also fully on board with that wind of change there. When Bolton was brought in by Trump, he's a great guy. When Trump rejected him, no longer, I need to grow up.
I don't know. And I think again, that's a valid point, and I think that those people are too far gone. They are you know, these are the equivalent of you know, Trump's own sort of sea Org with these individuals.
They're they're they're so.
Immeshed in his culture personality. But I mean, you're never going to really convince. I mean, again, they could see a video of Trump with Epstein and doing god knows what and it would be fake, right, you know, I mean everything is already fake. But I I mean those people, you're never gonna convince it one way or the other. I mean, you know, they would be willing to turn on their own family members, and some of them, I think do because of that. But I do think that
there are enough people. I think there are still people that are on the fence. I think there are people that were more recently conned by him, and he's utilized those people, and those are the people that I think he's pissed that he's losing.
Yeah, but see, here's the thing about that hardcore group that you were talking about will never leave him and the barnacles you know, on the bottom of the whale or whatever. Here's the deal with that. Though a lot of them have podcasts, a lot and a lot of them have if they don't have that, they're popular on social media. They have platforms one way or another, and if they didn't have one, they could go get one untruth social So the thing is it's not just about
them and that percentage. It's about the influen that has continued to give reasonable doubt to those that wish to believe and given cover to those that insist on believing that are out there that are not speaking out. That's what's maintaining his numbers. And I think everybody is underestimating that. I really do, because these are the people that have stuck with him. When he said I didn't know the guy, then video comes out, Well, I was around him some
you know, we lived in the same neighborhood. What are you going to do? Yeah, okay, but you know, every excuse is acceptable unless you're somebody I don't like that. None of your excuses are acceptable. Matter of fact, there's a cover up, and your excuses represent something else.
You know.
It's literally that weird strategy of not only am I going to deny what you're accusing me of, but I'm now going to accuse you of it. And I don't
know what that is called. Necessarily there's a term for it that I can't think of, but it's a real thing and it's working think so, you know, and maybe not one hundred percent, maybe not even more than thirty five percent, but it's working enough to create the coalition, and the other part of that coalition could be I don't like any of the stuff he does or says but he's doing what I want, you know, the camp that I could fall into and what.
I said, Yes, I'm just saying I think a lot willing to.
But if you stitch these things together, that's a majority.
That's what's happening in my mind. And I think this again, incrementally, it's going to get quashed and then the way the history will be written is going to be determined by a whole lot of things, because they're going to have to say, look, the president said this at the end of the day, doesn't matter if he's a pathological war doesn't matter if he switches, you know, based on well, why does that guy you know, literally I watched him recently go when they say what do you think about
what this guy said? And he goes, does that guy like me or not? Like? Literally, that's part of what it's based on for him at that level, but it represents something else to these other people. They're not just against Trump, they're against America. And there were people always like that that said you can't talk about the president. I mean you were alive for Bush Junior, for sure. You remember you talk about the president. Boy, you were
talking against America. What are you with the terrorists. That is still there, except now it's what are you against Trump? You're against America. You must be with the democrats, the terrorists, the pedophiles. You're with that. And that's the real thing. There are people that see that's a straight face, not like, are you trying to make a ridiculous argument. I mean,
the weirdest thing I saw. I got a guy to take down a YouTube video which I was totally shocked at, and maybe it came from other places and I'm just thinking too big about the comments I threw at him.
But this moron was trying to Edward j Epstein, the you know, suspect critic of the Kennedy assassination, one of the first ones who seemed to be, you know, constantly undermining, you know, legitimate questions against the official story, even though he was supposed to be a critic of the official story. That guy who did a whole bunch of weird stuff, and I'm convinced was an intelligence asset. Edward j Epstein.
This guy was wondering aloud on his YouTube channel how that guy who wrote books on JFK still looked so good in the nineties and the early two thousands, when he was a sex trafficker because it's Jay Epstein, you see, right? And I went, you know, is this a joke? Because you are playing the straight man way too well and you do realize these are two entirely different human beings that simply share a last name, which I'm not saying.
I know they're related or not, but you obviously don't know either, and you're relating this guy being a critic of the Kennedys. How do you even get there? Is this a joke? And a couple of days later the YouTube video disappeared, but it was funny because he's got a following. I'm not gonna even give his name. I don't even remember it off the top of my head. But either way, this guy is one of those social commentator guys out there who is on the MAGA side
for sure, but was asking that question. So you know, how many stupid things can they throw at the wall before you get lost in their stupid things and forget about the core issue? Is my major question? So you know, here we go. How is this going to be written? I have no idea, but I don't see it affecting him at all, and I don't see it affecting him in the long term or his legacy or any of that.
And I'll give you the final word on this, Pier, because I held you a little longer, but we got disconnected, et cetera. And next time we talk, I really want to talk about South Park, just saying because there's there's something weird going on there too, boys and girls, and you know, obviously go over to Porkins Policy Review dot com check out his archive on Epstein. You could probably learn a hell of a lot more than you will from reading any of the current stuff or any of
the propaganda related to it. How about the core issues And oh, by the way, it was the alternative media picked up on this first, the actual alternative media, and then it was hijacked by the right wing all media, and then it became a thing, and now it is a mainstream I mean, you would think that people like
myself and Pierce would see this as a victory. And there are some people out there that are claiming that, which is funny, even though they sit in somewhere in Central or South America and never go anywhere and seem to, you know, be proclaimed as the greatest journalists ever. I'm not talking about anybody in particular, am I anyway? You know, and your book sales do well when nobody buys books. I mean, it's just you know, it remarkable anyway, and
that was a couple of people. Now I just shot fired, you know, warning shots at But anyway, perce, I mean, this is not so unique, and yet maybe it is a little and I think it's just going to disappear down the memory hole along with everything else. I mean, in the past less than nine months, we've had Trump bomb Iran. Okay, literally, you know, tell people that no matter what Israel does, it's okay, screw Ukraine if the
guy can't wear the right clothes and say thank you enough. Uh. And all of that has happened in less than nine months, along with the big beautiful bill, the various tariffs that you know, he claims is making great progress for everybody, even though your prices are still up all over the place, but he says eggs and gas are down. All of this has happened in nine month once. And I don't know,
I don't really see his support wavering. Matter of fact, you know, sitting here in Georgia, and maybe it's because I am in a truly red state. You know, even though people can play bulled, Lada's not read road blueoo Democrats, And yet that doesn't account for the whole rest of the state that is controlled top to bottom by the GOP. But you know, maybe it's just because I'm sitting here, and I'm even sitting in an allegedly liberal area. They're
all for everything he's doing. And they've announced that recently we're going to see more ICE activity here, just like in Los Angeles and everywhere else. Get ready for that ice is going to be in your face in your community locally. They're making sure to let us know that, you know, same time they're going to Chicago and everywhere else. That couldn't be a coordinated agenda, couldn't. Anyway, I don't even know of that many, you know, people that could
even be potentially illegals around here. There are a handful, But you know, Georgia I don't think is the hottest bed of it. But maybe it's. Maybe maybe I'm wrong, and they'll pull out another one hundred thousand from here, Pierce, But in real time, I think we're losing the thread on this and we're gonna lose the fight and they're going to bury something that you know, people like you and me said should be brought to the light, and
they brought it to the light. But now they're going to pull the rug right out from under the lamp. I think, But maybe I'm wrong. What's what's your way of closing this one out?
Well? I think maybe I'm just trying to be more optimistic in a very pessimistic and sort of negative environment that we all find ourselves in. But and I think that what you're saying is is absolutely true and valid, and I think that it can certainly go that way. But I still tend to maintain some hope that this story is too difficult to control, and I think that there will be more that will come out. It's not going to be I think what we all are hoping for.
You know, there's no client list, there's a smoking gun, something like that video evidence. But I don't think it's going to completely go away. I think it's going to make it harder just in a you know, on a kind of like personal level for him. I don't know that it's in an impact policy, but yeah, I don't know. I think I'm just I just tend to be a
little bit more optimistic. Maybe I don't know if that's quite the right word regarding this, but I think that I think the fact that it's even still an issue now it is evidence of the power that it has. And I think that while certainly his most ardent devotees are have really demonstrated the lengths they're willing to go, oh I'm not, I do wonder if they're I mean,
Jeffree's memoir is going to be coming out soon. Her family has been, you know, speaking out a lot about this and speaking out about these weird meetings with Maxwell and others, and I do I do wonder if at some point there will be you know, enough pressure there will become this sort of you know, the these sort
of drips and drabs that are coming. There will be enough that more will begin to come out, and it will be really hard to control the narrative and and of course they will probably just lie, deny it was the other people, It wasn't me, This is all fabricated.
But I don't know.
For me, I think there there might be a breaking point where where people are because you know, I think that sometimes it's it's really easy to kind of view this world we live in where you know, all of his supporters are cult members, and cult members have no free will. They're completely you know, we use this term like brainwashed all the time. Other brainwashed. You can't you can't undo that. You know, they're crazy, my you know, friends and relatives and all that. You know, they've completely
gone over and I can't speak to them. And so and I think that there's no cult that that operates like that. There's that's impossible. You cannot control people to that degree every single day of their life. I mean, even people deep in high control groups always have doubts. That's you know, I mean that that's that's kind of like that that that can be part of the kind of pull and push and the control, but there's always doubts. And I think that we don't know the level to which.
This can be.
Pushed to where these people are going to really begin to doubt, you know, the leader, the guru. So I don't know, maybe that is is being a little bit too optimistic, but that's that's just how I view this. I I tend to think that there is an upper limit to this. And you know, you can't fool all the people all the time. That's that's sort of how I tend to look at this, but I might be completely wrong.
Well, you know, again, it's still my basic counterpoint. You don't have to pool all the people, you know, all you have to do is have a Any revolution is not based on a majority. You know, a lot of people think that revolutions changes for the better or for the worse, or based on a majority of people decide No, there's a small minority that sticks to it, and through fear, they have a bubble of people they influence. Through convenience, they have a bubble of people they influence. And that's
how that majority is built. Not all for the core of the people that believe it, but you know, the people that are bending their knees in the corporate world, the people that are literally making the payments to the Trump Presidential Library, the people that are paying the fines and turning around because they want to be able to sell their company, the people that are et cetera. This is what we're at. You know, even the you know, the supported comedians are honest to this and that they're
doing a Saudi Arabian event. Now you know what I'm saying, This is transactional and reveals the real ugly about how a lot of people don't have principles, but they will act like they do, you know, and they're just looking for a new leader. That's all they're ever doing. So this is one of the time and I think somebody who is managing this for him, not him directly, I mean he knows how to, you know, just act as though. I mean, it's that that guy that gets away with it.
You ever see somebody in a store, in a movie theater or whatever who gets away with doing something and you literally look at it and you go, how the hell did that happen? One hundred people could have tried that and would have never gotten away with it. You know, the guy that gets his food free at the restaurant because he made the right complaint to the right person, and consistently, that guy does that because that's how he lives.
You know, the guy that paid seventy five percent of what he could or sixty percent of what he had to to get work done, and then turned around and failed to finish paying it off and then said sue me and then paid, you know, fifteen percent more of what he should have paid initially. He ends up with a fifteen percent discount across the board on the whole project. And I am talking about Trump and I am talking about Atlantic City. Now right, this is the way it's done.
He's got a discount that he builds in through resistance, and fine, take me to court. I got all kinds of lawsuits. I don't care. I got lawyers that are on the car all the time. I don't pay them either. You know, it is amazing. So I don't know. I think that we weren't all prepared for this, the majority of us. So anyway, maybe I'm the pessimist and Pierce is the optimist. Judge for yourselves, but go to Porkins
Policy review dot com. Check out Pierce. I don't know how much you tweet anymore, but maybe I'll put your Twitter profile link in the show notes. Anyway, you know, contact Piers, question them, ask him, you know, whatever it is you want to do. He'll handle it his way. And we haven't seen any new podcasts lately, but life sometimes gets in the way, and I'm kind of glad it has for you actually, So you know, I hope that you have enjoyed these guys and appears anything you
want to say in closing. Ope, I guess I either lost them or something. All right, revel like sorry travel like, oh okay, I paused my music. Sorry you weren't there. I thought maybe I lost you.
No, I just I just muted my microphone for some reason. So no, I didn't know. Nothing much else to add
just other than this. I just am fascinated that this story has taken on the scope that it has, and it is just really it's amazing that something that was so kind of niche to me and other people and now, you know, when you're like I was sitting on the train the other day and like looked over and it's someone I was like watching some stupid YouTube, you know, all media influencer podcast talking about Epstein and I did. That is just amazing. The reach that this story has
continue to have. And I think it's just because it's such a fascinating story. And again, as I said, I think it's really hard to control it. So yeah, I would just continue to kind of to look at it, and yeah, and hopefully I might have some stuff on this on my show, some new material as well.
Excellent. Look, you know, you know you've crossed over when we went from four or five podcasters literally in the English speaking world talking about this some years back to you know. Now it's everywhere and literally you can find Epstein icebergs on YouTube. If you don't know what an iceberg is, go check it out. It's pretty funny to me. I actually do watch the icebergs to see what it is people think are important. The iceberg concept that kills me.
But anyway, we have transitioned, that's for sure. But you know, just like people question other transitions, is it a good one? Anyway? That's up to you guys. Like I said, and like I said before Pierson, I might have different opinions about this, but I think both of us are a little concerned about the future of it one way or another. And maybe you will be too, but then again, maybe not. I guess we'll have to see. Amili o'celly, all of you are the effect. Thanks Sage.
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