Get many tell me that.
Okay, if you're listening to my little online radio station, this is coming on at an odd time of day if you're hearing it live, and it just is the seventh day of November twenty twenty five, allegedly, according to that thing we call a calendar. And we're doing a special here today. And what's it about the Lancer Conference coming up November twenty first to the twenty third, Yes,
this month, a few weeks from now. I'll be starting on my road trip on the nineteenth actually, but from the twenty first to the twenty third, we'll be live in Dallas, and i'm the MC over there. So today, what I've got is the best guests that I could
sort of gather together a couple of weeks before. It's a little more than two weeks away, and I think it's a pretty diverse group of guys that we got there, A group of guys and gals actually that are going to be doing presentations, panels and everything, and God help you all. I've actually had something to do with the selection process this time. I'm not in charge of it, but I've been involved. So anyway, I'm really happy actually to kick this off a little early, although it's a
little late. I meant to go on air well about ten minutes ago.
But that's okay.
We're going to get to it quickly because I know how to speak quickly, and so does this guy.
Johnny Karen's has.
Been on this show one other time, and I was having a hard time remembering it because it was years ago. But I'll tell you that is a mistake on my part.
I should have had this guy on more. And when I met him in Dallas, I was really really happy, first of all, who I was looking at, the kind of energy I got from this guy, the enthusiasm, and quite frankly, the solid research he was doing, which I got to watch in the presentation later, because again I was doing five jobs that weekend, so I didn't necessarily watch everybody's presentation. But Johnny I got to see outside of the conference a little bit. I think we were at the same dinner.
Whatever.
It's a blur at this point, but this is one of those good guys that I hope I can bring on here more in case you guys have all forgotten about him.
Though.
Let's see how he's doing. He's talking to us from over on the other side of the pond. Okay, so note the accent, you know, like I don't have one, right I know?
Anyways, Johnny? First off, how you doing today? Uh? Oh? Did I lose Johnny? I had him here. I swear to he was connected. Let me see. I couldn't have lost him already, did I?
Now?
I see him? I do hear you.
Look, you can shut off your camera if you want because I'm not using the video. Let's get the audio straight though, because I go.
Hey, Johnny, how you doing? And nothing? So I feel foolish anyways.
Yet, reintroduce yourself. I don't know if you heard everything I just said, but I tried to go quick. You know, I want to get into what it is you're going to present and all that, and I'll let you roll with it.
But first, how you doing today, sir?
I'm good? Thanks set Kerry.
You doing oh well?
You know, I'm surviving. Like I said, I really want to try and get you on here more in the future, because I mean, I was very sick after the time that you and I met in Dallas. But frankly, it's one of those things, what are you going to do? But I meant to start getting you on the show more often, and I've failed to do so my fault, because we need to get you back on.
By the way, those your dogs are mine probably mine. Anyhow, here we go.
They're broadcasting from home, So tell us about what it is you're going to be presenting, get people a background, and I'll kind of turn down my sound so that the weenie dogs don't disturb us here. I got little dogs, a bunch of them here, so we'll try and keep them from disturbing us. But tell us about what it is you're going to be presenting and everything else, please.
Sure.
So. My name is Jeanny Kirns.
I have been caught up in the research and the life and the assassination of President Kennedy since I was around thirteen years old. I've never really done it seriously until I don't know, maybe seventeen eighteen, and it's just something that I've just done all these years.
I've written.
I write for Kennedy's and King, which joined the Eugenio's website.
I've written numerous articles on the case.
My most best work, I think, is my six part article which I've done for the sixtieth anniversary in twenty twenty three.
And I have.
Ever since then, I've been speaking at different conferences, especially the conference in the UK for Daily Players the UK, and mostly reading things. You know, my focus is shifting now in the assass the nation more to the lifer John Kennedy. So this is what I'm talking about at Lanser for this conference. I'm just I'm indicted.
I'm not going to be there in person.
But right well, let me let me interrupt you for a second. Because you're younger than me. I'm certain of that. I mean, if not, I got to tell you, you're making me feel terrible if you're anywhere near my age.
But I don't think you are. How old are you?
I will be fairly five and start next month, so I'm fairly ford.
Just now, Okay, okay, so I understand your progression. Okay.
You joined it into the JFK assassination research around the same time I did. So what happens here is like, you know, we got into it as teenagers, and of course our focus might have been different at that time. I'm older, so it was around the twenty fifth anniversary when my teenage entrance happened. You look kind of like a musician. I was a musician at the time. Do you play any I forget these these questions because we only met that one time when you came over with Dealy Plaza UK as a group.
I think, go ahead, Yeah, that's right, So I do play.
I play guitar, and my girlfriend would would say not very well, but to me I sounded like a prime John Lennon nice I do.
I do love all sorts of music.
One of my favorite artists at the minute, in fact, is a guy.
Called Steven Wilson Jr. Who's guy from Indiana. I went to see him live.
Earlier this year in Glasgow. Totally blew my mind. He is a country and some of the best lyrics I've heard in a very long time. So that's kind of where I am. And then the minute with the music stuff. Bobby, you Chuck, what do you listen to?
Yeah?
Well, mainly I was a hard rocking, heavy metal kind of guy, and frankly I played all kinds of music though, you know, I did everything from wedding bands and blues and jazz straight on to death metal and punk, you know, in my time. But I'm a bit older now and you know, but it does give you a different flavor when you're dealing there. There are certain people that are in the research community that were musicians, and believe it or not, we end up gravitating toward each other a little bit.
Like I said, I.
Kind of like you, And that's a weird thing to say because I only met you a one time, and I met like hundreds of researchers and you're one of these.
Guys where I was like, oh, thank god.
As a matter of fact, I think I blurted out to you at the restaurant at Campezies. I think I blurted out to you, Oh thank god, somebody the looking at you.
I know you're one of my guys.
So it was like it was the tattoos, Chuck, it was the tattoos.
That's what it was.
Yes, Okay, So okay, now we've sidetracked a bit, and we got Larry Hancock coming up in about fifteen twenty minutes. So let's get back to your research though, because you've shifted and we did talk about Oswald the last time you were on the show. You've been to Dealey Plaza. Now you know you've actually made the trip from over on the other side of the pond to hear been
to Dallas presented at the conferences. I wish you were going to be in person this year, but unfortunately, Look, maybe it's better because with the way the airplanes are going here with the government shutdown, who knows. Anyways, maybe it's safer for you to stay over there this year. But I really wish you were coming, but you've shifted around.
So tell us what.
Just give us an idea why it is you're going into the life of Kennedy now, just from like your motivation standpoint, and then give us an idea, like, you know, what are you going to do. We're going to talk about his his later political life or are you going to give us a kind of a broad view of
the whole thing. Are you going to go back to him being in Congress, or are you're going to go back to the local stuff when he was still trying to ride on the Fitzgerald you know sort of family line, which is the other side, not the Kennedy side of his family, you know, when he was using that because he had Honey fitz as a relative. Maybe people don't know about that in Boston politics. How deep are you're going to go into it? Is it going to be political personal.
What it's going to be personal.
For sure. I I still believe in John Kennedy. And that's a strange thing to say, considering he's been dead for nearly sixty two years.
But I still believe in him and his ideals.
John Kennedy is someone that isn't in a history book. To me, he is a live and breathing ideal and it is something that guides me in my life. Not to make him out to be like a saint or anything like that. He was profoundly human, just like the rest of us are.
Right, But there's there's, there's there's there's.
Examples in his life and his presidency that really inspire me today.
For example, p.
T One O nine, the fact that he swam with one of his crew men on his back for over three miles. It's an extraordinary act of courage and.
Stuff like that. You know, it just really continues to inspire. Fact.
The fact of the matter is, I go back to some of the speeches that he delivered. You know a lot of people gravitate towards the you know, the June tenth, nineteen sixty.
Three America University University. It's a great speech.
Yes, for me, Sorry, I blurred it out loud, but I blurred it out loud when you said the date I said the American University Speech. I wasn't even thinking when I said it. And it's it's true.
Yeah, but Jun ten sixty three, right, right?
So what was so profound about that? I mean, to you personally, I know what I would say, but this isn't about me. So what what is it that stands out to you there? And why do you think this is important? I mean, look, there's been lots of years. I mean, you're twenty years younger than me about and I wasn't even alive when he died. I was particularly touched by the fact that we would have been extracted from the Vietnam War as an American and that affected
me directly personally. But what is the personal attachment you have to this? And why is it the American University speech? Just to give us a hint about one of the most widely talked about speeches he gave, generally speaking, what is it about that that attracts you to it and makes you think that it was something obviously special to you?
I speak humanity in the speech.
I don't bought am Robert Kennedy and American politics, on even politics in general.
I haven't seen anyone make a speech like.
That, and the preceding sixty two years since the events in Delli Plaza as the fact is that he tried to get.
Us to wrecking ourselves in the other side.
You know, we all breathe the same air, We all charged our children's future, and we're all MOrTL John Kennedy was profoundly touched and motivated by children. In fact, during their thirteen Days of October nineteen sixty two, one of the things that really caused them a lot of pain was the you know, the children around the world who would be killed as a result of nuclear confrontation with the Soviet Union. You know, children who had no role, who had no say in whose lives would be snuffed
out along with the rest of us. And I don't know if you know, but when he fought for the nuclear the limited nuclear test Bantry, John Kennedy, against all odds, got passed. And again when he found out that the fallout you know, from these tests came down in the atmosphere, in the rain, you know, and it would it would you know, it would affect the soil, It would affect children born and yet to be born. Kenny o'donald said, it's one of the most depressed they've ever seen them.
He was watching the rain fall outside the window into the rose garden, and he said, and I'm just paraphrasing here, that even the result of the malformation of one baby as a result of the nuclear testing should be a front of us all for this generation and generations yet unborn. I just don't see that humanity and and and not just a politician and uh and and another human being.
I think it's very profound and one that again, something that I think that's often overlooked is the political courage it took for As to address the nation the next night and Janie eleventhineteen sixty.
Three on civil rights.
President Kennedy was told, or he was informed not to do it.
The fear was that it would not only cost.
The Democratic Party of the South for generations to come, but I would also cost him in nineteen sixty four election. Right, But he done it because it was the right thing to do.
Well.
See, that's the thing, Johnny. And that's the thing, Johnny. You know what.
I'm not one of these guys who tries to apply sainthood to John Kennedy either. But I think it is extremely important to recognize that there was a huge difference in the way this man conducted himself from what we see today. And that difference was seen not only in the nuclear test ban treaty, but you know, because remember I started researching this around the time you were born, Okay, And the thing is this, what I see is a
guy who was continuously under pressure. He was being told that we could win in a nuclear exchange with the Soviet Union. He was told that we could get that done. By his military leadership. He was being pressured to go to war over conflicts that stemmed from places like Germany, Laos, you know, and other places before Vietnam, but also including Vietnam. And you know, let's invade Cuba, let's do this, let's
do that. He had pressures on him, and you know what, it would have been easier, It would have made more money. It would have attracted you know, a certain like hawkish political you know, cachet to him. It would have given him political capital among certain people in the United States, and it certainly would have given him the thanks, so to speak, of the military industrial complex in general who would have been more than happy to prop it off a bloodshed no matter where it was. And this guy
repeatedly did exactly the opposite thing. And I think the consideration, in part is exactly what you're laying out, which is, you know what, there's a whole And I bring this up all the time, not inspired by John Kennedy, but inspired by common sense that no matter what, if we're going to loose the monster of war one way or another,
people make a lot of brash statements. They make a lot of you know, sweeping statements about well, we'll just go to war, we'll just bomb these people, things like this, and I don't mean just politicians, but regular people. And the thing is, this is a guy who said no, And this is a guy who considered that there would be people injured, there would be people killed, there would be people impacted that never ever had anything to do with that conflict, with that weaponry, with that war, with
that prophet, with any of it. And I think that was a major consideration here, and that, my friend, is what we call leadership of a different time period than what we see now. I'm not naming names, I'm just saying it's a different kind of leadership, especially in America.
What are your thoughts about what I said? Do you object? No?
I think as a leadership that we were longing for, were craving for.
And that's not just in the United States. I think it's all over.
John Kennedy gets there's a lot of their opinion divided over Vietnam. The one thing I will say to people that think that John Kennedy would have took the same course of action as Lyndon Johnson did is that John Kennedy knew that, and he told us to Mike Mansfield and Kenny O'Donnell actually in the days leading up to Dallas, that if he tried to get out of Vietnam, then they would have had another Joseph McCarthy red scare on their hands. It would have been denounced as a communist appeaser.
But when he got reelection, that's when he could have really pulled out. And again he signed in SAM two to sixty three first one thousand troops home. But the political landscape at the time was, you know that they couldn't no politician could be seen to, you know, lose ground to communists and all this kind of stuff.
But John Kennedy was never going into Vietnam.
He was told on numerous occasions to bomb moref Vietnam, bomb the hopes human trail, and put ground troops into to Vietnam, and he never done it. Once he was told to go to Warren Berlin, he was told to go to Warren Laos, he was told to go to war in Cuba, he was told to go to warre in Vietnam, and every time he rejected it. Yet Lyndon Johnson, when he was presented with war, he took it at the first opportunity. And that's the difference between Kennedy and Johnson.
As Robert Kennedy says, you know, they used to have a president who was a gentleman, and now they've got a president he would only be nice to if you want to kiss hiss behind all the time, right, you know. But yeah, that's so that's what that's what inspires me about it. And that's the tragedy of of Daily Plaza. Of course, as well, he was he was he was half the days.
On this earth. You know, he was spent in excruciating agony. He had a bad back.
He was given the last ride to the Catholic church four times before his inauguration, but he kept on going.
And it would have been easy for him to live a.
Life a luxury, to live a life where you know, he didn't need to go to public service. But one of his favorite books was Pilgrim's Way and it was written by a Scotsman called John Buckan whose name is Lord Tweedsmere, and he said that politics is still the greatest and most honorable adventure in John Kennedy believed that, and I think if you look at his life and his presidency, I think that shines through well.
Outside of the Lancer conference, where can my listeners go to follow up to see what it is you're working on?
Do you have a central place?
Are you working on putting anything together where we can see Johnny Kern's work, you know, for ourselves. I mean, is there a link I can share with people or anything like that? Or do you just say go look at my articles and look at my presentations or you got something upcoming?
What's happening with you?
So am I do right?
For Kennedys and King, I've wrote numerous articles. All articles are basically on there. If you type my name into YouTube, you'll find presentations that I've done in the past, and I also co authored a book with a Canadian researcher, a guy called Dave O'Brien.
Dave was a.
Reporter who got access to the Texas School Book to positry in the nineteen seventies when the building was basically derelict and the books called case not Closed, which obviously was the playing words of the Gerald Posner book.
So yeah, most of my work is on Kennys and King.
I have got an article that's going to be coming out on the twenty second and is going to be a tribute to it.
Fridge John F. Kennedy.
So for anyone that wants to be my latest work will be on Kennyth and Kenglin.
The twenty second excellent.
Well, look, I look forward to that on the twenty second, but also look forward to seeing your presentation at Lancer. And you know, I appreciate you taking the time today to do this with me, and I'm more than happy I got to get you on more in the future.
Johnny.
That's that's what I gotta do because I appreciate the energy. I have similar thoughts to you, and again, I just by meeting this guy I knew exactly. I was looking at somebody that I want to follow and pay attention to, another younger guy than myself. And I'm happy to see that also, because you know, my generation was kind of not as full as the previous generation when he came to the research community, and I was kind of feeling like we were losing the next generation or two.
But thank the Gods.
I've got you and Alex Harris and a couple other guys that I've run into that let me know that there's younger guys out there. I mean, really, if I put you in Alex Harris's ages together, I don't think I get mine, all right, So you know, here we go. I'm getting to be one of the older guys, although I'm going to get in a slightly older guy. And I say that with all the joking there because I
love them. Larry Hancock coming up next, but you know, there's the generation before me, and I'm happy to see that we're going to continue on because eventually, my friend, I want to get at something that resembles a full public disclosure regarding the truth about what happened here. I think it's important for the reasons that you're laying out and your presentation, your upcoming article, and your current you know,
vein of research that you're tapping into. And I look forward to seeing what you're going to do in the future. And hope I'm going to be able to get you on here more so we can talk about it and I can keep up with you a little bit better. So Johnny, again, thanks so much for joining.
Me, love, thanks for having me so as a pleasure, Chuck, and I look forward to speaking to you again.
Absolutely soon, I hope.
And so with that, I was going to take a break, but since Larry Hancock is actually with us already, I think I'll just see if Larry, are you ready to go?
Do you want to talk to me yet? Or should I take a break.
No, I'm fine, Chuck.
You know, as an old guy, I got up early for my afternoon nap and it's just a few minutes before time to eat, So I'm good.
Listen, I'm getting at that age though you and I would be trading nap times if we were anywhere near each other. It would be like, well, look, i'm taping my nap here, you take yours there, and we'd figure it out. But you know, Johnny, I don't know if you want to hang out or if you want to disconnect, but you could hang out if you want and take a listen to what Larry and I are going to talk about up to you.
Yeah, I might listen for a bit.
It's because it's so late here, I might have to slink away. But I'm always interested in what Larry's got to say, so I'll definitely stay around for a wee bit.
Okay, great, So you just hang out Johnny and Larry. It's you know, long time no talk. You and I talk every couple.
Of weeks, like, oh yeah, days.
A few days ago. That's okay.
I love talking to you, Larry. I'd have you on every week if I thought I could convince you to do it. But you know, it's it's interesting Johnny's talking about the you know, the living legacy so to speak, when it comes to the JFK a bit more. But you have been as of late focused kind of on Well,
let's just go with it. The Oswalt Puzzle, which is the name of your latest book, which I highly recommend as a matter of fact, if you if you want the truth, I would say I recommend it above you know Larry's other work on the case, depending on what.
It is you want to look into.
It is one of the best pieces that you put out yourself and David Boyland together. He's your co author, and you'll be presenting with him this year at Lancer again virtually. Unfortunately, I wish you were going to be there in person too, but I'll be there and we'll get your virtual presentation yours and David's. Can you give us a hint what it is that you know you're working on, going to be doing so on and so forth, you know, give us an idea talk about the conference.
The floor is yours, sir. Oh sure.
Well, First of all, I really do miss being at the conference. I know David does as well. I was at the conference in person for the better part of two decades every year, trip down to Dallas, drive down to Dallas, enjoyed, enjoy you know, local visits and doing tours in Dallas. I led walking tours for years. So I do miss the physical presence for sure, There's no doubt about that. And all the I probably did more research in the hallways, you know, talking to Malcolm Blunt behind a pointed platt.
Malcolm, you know, slipping some documents my way, or meeting with Jim or.
Just a host of people that could be either Jim, Jim, Mar Jim d Gdo you know that used to be used to be an activity I look forward to every year.
So I do miss the in person part, but.
I'm happy I'm still able to do it remotely and still able to participate remotely and hopefully going to have some dialogues with people during the conference, even outside our presentation, remotely as it were.
But so I'm looking.
Forward to it.
I wouldn't want November to pass by without it, even if I can't be there in person. As far as the hint of what we're talking about, David and I are talking about, we're following along the trail that we opened up in the Oswell Puzzle. And I would have to say, just as a personal declaration, having been in it for so long, you know, you get into this research and at some point in time you have to satisfy yourself, you know what am I going to focus on?
What's going to answer my burning question? And to some extent I did that.
I did that with Tipping Point, which laid out what my conclusions were on the actual nature of the conspiracy, and someone would have talked. I laid out my thoughts on the nature of the cover up, and I view the two as partially linked but not totally part of any grand plan.
But that takes us to Lee Harvey Oswell.
Because that at the end of all of that, my view was Oswell a certainly is innocent Oswell as a patsy. Oswell is just not any patsy, but it's a patsy ordered obtained to point the finger of the assassination in a certain direction, not just to make it. Don't think the conspiracy ever intended him to be a loan nut. That's probably the only satisfaction I take out of the whole thing is that part of the plan failed, failed miserably, or was obstructed. Let's put it that way. It didn't
come out. The whole thing didn't come out what they wanted it to be.
So that makes me feel good.
But so David and I, that's what took us to take another look at Lee Harvey Oswald, totally revisiting Oswald
regardless of anything I've written in the past. We took it a new approach, and what we're doing now is extending our research, we've been I guess for the last six months, we've been continuing to research two sets of leads really and two sets of leads with some input from the new doc releases that point us towards all who knew Oswald, who knew about him, who would have been in a position to target him for particular purpose, who would have had the ability to reach out to him.
I know, twenty years ago, twenty five years ago, one of my biggest.
Questions was as well, who knew him well enough to make him a patsy? Who knew him?
Where was he visible?
And if you think he was visible, And if you think.
The conspiracy involved elements of CIA operations people, then how.
Did they know about him?
And one of the things that has come about, fortunately is that with David's efforts at mapping and understanding the CIA's paramilitary operations and their anti Cuban operations, which has taken years, with a lot of cryptbusting that a lot of us have done Simpic and others so that we can actually read documents, not just read documents, but trace the document.
Flow, who's copied, where is it going? Oh, what's their jobs they working with? We just right, and it reached a whole new level, right.
And this is important because look, at the end of the day, if Oswald is nothing else, he's useful as an element in the propaganda and the propaganda that emerges as a result of you know, the the sort of the blowback, the aftermath of the assassination itself, the way.
They dealt with it, you know, in real time.
But also to create you know, the legend, to create the character on the media stage that would ever after be useful. This was all engineered in a certain way, and I think that gives you some hints as to who was interested, because he had to be cultivated. You know, there's a reason why he gets radio interviews, there's a reason why the television station you know, captures him at a certain time doing the activity he does.
That was all arranged. That was all, you know what I'm saying.
In other words, these things had to be created so that you had a workable legend and you had something to distribute across the nation when the news went live, and this way, I mean every place in the in the United States and probably across the world got to hear this guy saying, no, I'm not a communist. I'm a Marxist Leninist. You know, this was useful because of the current, you know, state of affairs when it came to the Cold War, et cetera. So I think that
is is useful information. And David is developing a way of looking at this to see who it is that could have been maneuvering him, to see who it is had access to him.
I mean, you're doing it too.
But it's really interesting, and I think that's that's going to be a key thing to show people because this.
Is how we've been able to access it over all these years.
How did they use this guy as a character who would have been responsible for handling the programs and sort of you know, moving him across the board that you know, the game board, if you will, you know, as a pawn, as a patsy.
So this is all rather.
Fascinating and it's something that is worthy of reverse engineering in my mind. And we need to understand this because I think it reveals formulas and one could say that we could see the nuts and bolts of this, we might understand how propaganda efforts and other let's call them historical legends were built afterwards and previous to Oswald, you know,
sixty three. Given the landscape of the time, given who was in charge of what at the time, et cetera, where their focuses were, where their assets were available, what was being funded, all of this stuff is relevant. It's a bit complex, but it's all relevant. So yeah, I think this is really excellent. I'm looking forward to seeing this as well. Are you guys going to take up the whole hour you think with it? Or I know you got more than an hour's worth of material to go, we.
Will take we will take up the whole time with this. We're really because one of the reasons we take up the whole time, as you said, it is complex, but also there's a timing element to it, and as we've talked about in the past, there's always the devil is in the details, and it's one thing to be able to identify who knew what, who was doing what project,
But then the timing comes into play. When did they know it, When did they know it when they could when could they have started to do something about it? And for example, we know that the DRE began a propaganda program against Oswald that the CIA shut down.
Why would that happen?
Why wouldn't the CIA very successful everything you just described in New Orleans, the dra took, they took to Miami, they started writing congress persons, they started putting out flyers, and suddenly the CIA shut them down. Why would That's not standard practice when you're paying the DRE to do propaganda.
Then what we find out is, at the same time they shut him down, a fellow in Special Fair staff in Miami was Propaganda Operations begins his own program, taking the information from New Orleans, taking the knowledge of Oswald, and starting a new program that we literally know nothing about other than the kickoff. So the timing for a lot of this stuff appears to be questioned, but appears to be useful. And looking at what happened, and Chuck, I have to.
Ask you, it looks like we might just have lost the feed.
No, no, we're okay, we just lost Johnny again. He had to hang up.
Oh okay, that's what it was. He disappeared and I disappeared. But I'm still here. Okay, got it, Yes you are.
Chronology it will.
Take a full hour because we have to talk about not only people and people in what position, but people who knew what When we have to talk about anomalies, and this is really only half of what we're doing. So this all relates to what the CIA was doing and speculation about the CIA's operational use of Lee Harvey Oswald, what they had in progress, and what would have been hugely embarrassing on November twenty second, people that talk about a poison peel in Mexico City, that's only a minor part.
Of the story.
The speculation we're presenting is that there was a full fledged propaganda program ready to go overseas, not inside the US, but overseas to support this new m world operation. Totally black, totally deniable, just about ready to release, and then Oswald comes up as a long cooman in Dallas and everybody's reputation is at risk. We're looking at the other angle too, but that will come out next year. We're looking at given what I just described, who knew what.
About Oswald?
When?
How would this tag into the actual conspiracy because that was just the first element what the CIA was doing or thinking about doing with Oswald. And then the conspiracy steps in and makes use of Oswald. Two different things, although they hinge around some of the same people in Miami it's a very black story.
Right, because look, the assassination winds up tying to the Cuban operation, which was underway already.
So what you've got to do.
Is lay out what was going on at the time forget Oswald to start with, Okay, here's the way the landscape is, right, then you got to start laying in chronological order a bunch of things that were happening within the system, let's just say. And then you got to lay out the chronology of how it interacted with Oswald and start to make sense of it. Okay, what could we expect from this assuming then what do we see here that went the you.
Know, sideways?
What didn't function according to the way it should have and why is that significant? And did that start happening before the assassination or was it just a cya thing afterwards? These are all important questions to put these things in
proper order. And I know this word comes up a lot with you and I, but in their proper context, you have to know what was happening, what usefulness this guy would have served theoretically, if you're just looking at the Cuban operation, put the assassination aside, right, because he could have without the assassination. Let's say theoretically he's still useful as an American propping up or propagandizing people in
public regarding the Castro regime, defending Castro. Now, this could be all sorts of an intelligence operation to draw people out, to find out who's who, to see in a particular area where the concentration is, to test the local Cuban population, et cetera.
These are all these.
Are all general speculations on my part.
Guys.
I'm not revealing anything here. What I'm saying is that you got to put that in context. Now we put it in order. This is the way it went, this is the way it kind of should have went. And now the assassination comes up, what do we see before and after that? And if you can lay all this out, you get an idea of who had their hands in this operation one way or another. You have an idea of where the money came from, You have an idea of who else he interacted with.
Right, So this lays out a.
Lot of important facts about the alleged assassin.
Am I right or wrong?
Now?
Absolutely, you're right.
The real question is at what point do these things begin to run in parallel.
I mean, let's assume there.
Is a black propaganda operation going on by the CIA that's being prepared, and we see traces of that, and we'll talk about the traces that we see. The interesting act is we see now see so many documents and so much about the Cuba project in Miami, at Miami Station, but it's all on the military and paramilitary side. We see nothing about this operation that we now know is going on because the head of it asked the FBI
to provide information from the FPCC. They wanted documents, they wanted letters, they wanted you know, we need information from the Fair Play for Cuba Committee because we're going to twist it and we're going to fake it, and we're going to revert you reverse it. We're going to take it overseas and make them look really, really dangerous. We know that was the goal of the operation. We know they contacted the FBI and among the information sent to them was coming from the guy that had been writing
letters to Oswald and responding to Oswell's letters. So the key, the key to all of this is to try to put that in parallel as you describe and see at the point in which they diverge. When do the people in Miami who are running what is probably a sanctioned perfectly you know dark you know, probably end project. When do they get had? Basically, when does somebody steal Oswald.
And begin to manipulate him to make him.
Something more than just a propaganda tool, but an actually patsy in the assassination. That also gives us a clue as to when the actual plans for the assassination began to gel.
And that's very important, very much so.
So Look, with the last ten minutes or so that I have reserved with you, I want to let you know that there's going to be a chat room. And I don't know if you've gotten the information yet, but I'm sure you will because I spoke to Gabby the
other night about this. We're going to have a chat room that people will be able to go into during the live conference from the twenty first to the twenty third, And this way you'll be able to interact with people and you won't need Facebook because you've been I still can't believe I'm saying this. Larry Hancock is like banned on Facebook.
I don't know why.
Okay, but anyway, we're gonna have a chat tangle room that people will be able to visit and you'll be able to sign into Larry. You should be given administrative access to it all and all that so that during the conference live they'll be able to interact with you and also with us there on the ground. We should all be able to get into this chat room during that weekend, the twenty first to the twenty third, which
is when the Lancer Conference is in person. But we also have a planned extra day of virtual stuff which might occur on Monday. My understanding is that'll be the extra day on Monday for people that go to Assassination Conference dot com and sign up and get your tickets. And oh, by the way, you can get ten percent off with the code Ocelly ten. The coupon code is Ocelli, which is my name and one zero ten as in
you get ten percent off. But so you're going to have a live chat room, are you still willing to do the live chat with us that weekend or.
Are you going to have time? What's going on there now?
I'm looking forward to that.
Gabrielle mentioned that last night when David and I did our recording for the conference of our presentation.
She said, you you would.
Educate me on how to get into it, and I said, that's great.
I'm more than happy to do that. It gives me a view into the conference. Let's you know, let' let me talk with people and possibly because I've.
Been at this so long and have heard so much, at least some of it I remember, and you know, on many many topics can share with people that are interested after moderating, like fifteen conferences or so, there's a lot of history there.
If I can just recall it, I'm.
Sure you'll do fine.
We got Joe BURRELLI coming up in about ten minutes, but before we get there, because you to be online on the jitsu thing, which by the way, Joe, I don't need your camera.
If you want to kill that, that's fine.
We can just have the audio feed and just hang out while I'm still finishing up with Larry here. But no, I look forward to that and I want to be able to use it on the ground. Now I'm going to be busy, busy running around and introducing people, and allegedly I'll be part of one panel anyway, so we'll see what happens. Plus I'm giving a presentation. So I don't know how much I'll be in the chat room. I'm going to be depending on you, Larry.
So and that that'll be again available.
That I should be able.
To be I should be able to be there all the time.
And you know, if I see something separate, I'll let you Gabrielle and know by email or something like that. If I you know, if the feed goes off or something happens.
So, yeah, I plan. I definitely plan to.
Be hanging out almost all of the conference, just as if I had been there in person.
We'll just consider this the hallway.
Well, if we have reception on the cell phones, do me a favor, just call Gabby or call Can and tell them to directly because I don't carry a cel phone. Okay, but just call him and tell us any proproblems, because you're going to be like our lifeline to the online people. And you've served in that role for the past couple of years. And you know, the last time I think you were there was geez, what maybe twenty nineteen.
Three years?
Well, I think about maybe it's been three years since I've been there.
Oh, you were there for maybe sixty of.
It maybe, So maybe this four years ago.
Yes, you were there for the sixtieth.
It was on the sixtieth.
Yeah, you were there for the sixtieth anniversary in twenty three.
That's right now, my memories got it.
I just wanted to butt in Larry and say hi because I love you, and Hi, Joe, how are you, sir? And Larry was like, you know, he was like the president walking around at the sixtieth and he was gracious.
Enough to.
Give me an hour or on Sunday morning to review some of the documents and presentation we had found on James Verbartin and just someone that's so great with us time and I consider a mentor.
So I'll let you guys finish off.
I just want to say hi, Larry, and whenever you're done, I'll kick in or I'll just hang out.
If I had just been able to keep that security detail, maybe I would have been on Facebook now, but you know, things happen.
I really cannot.
I'm still dumbfounded by the fact that your banned on Facebook. But yeah, that's right, you were there in twenty three. As a matter of fact, you gave me something that I treasure that's on the top of my bookcase behind me.
That year, and I appreciate that as well.
But look, also, Larry is on my show all the time, and I tell you guys, go to larrydshancock dot com follow his blog because it's more informative than people's whole web sites, and it's just the stuff he thinks about blogging about. On top of the fact that I recommend all of his books, they're all on my shelf behind me, which is not just JFK stuff, by the way, might include some things that revolve around the case, like I don't know, Nexus, Surprise.
Attack, Shadow Warfare. Geez.
These titles sound like they might be something that might have something to do with the Kennedy assassination, but they're not focused on it. But of course I highly recommend someone would have talked tipping point, you know. Please the Oswald puzzle right now is the best thing to get.
And do we have.
Any announcements about anything coming up, Larry? Are we waiting on that what's going on there?
No, we do.
We do hope to have what David and I are working on now in print in some fashion next year, so it will become available.
I don't have any time on that.
Yet, but we've we've completed our initial work on those those two areas.
You know, who knew what at.
The CIA and what does that mean for operational interest in Oswald? And where's the crossover to the conspiracy and how did that work?
How did they take over Oswald?
How did they essentially take Oswald out from under you know, the CIA propaganda element and and began to set them up when So we finished all of that, it's written up, it's even edited, and I just don't have a specific data as to how it's actually.
Hell when.
It will be available next year, but that will happen and right, and I'll publisher now for another book on UFOs.
So who knows.
I'm not sure I would live through it, but I went off the deep end and proposed it.
Here we go, Okay, so it just as a quick thing. Yeah, there will be in adendum to the Oswalt puzzle, and we'll keep you informed on this show as to when exactly it drops, and I will let you guys know right away how you can get it and all that stuff. But in the meantime, hey, look, if you get really worn out on the JFK topic, indeed we can go into UAP.
They call it now.
We could talk about those disclosures and the work of the you know, current Congress if they ever get back in session, I guess, you know, and see if we get any more disclosures, there any new data. You know, It's funny, Larry, I see a couple of pronouncements from mainstream media that sound like they're starting to come in line with that group that you know, didn't exactly grab the headlines the same as the guy who said we
have alien technology and aliens in our possession. But you know, it seems as though that is having an influence that group you're working with. And of course we've happily promoted that and the book on Identified, which is again another great work by Larry Hancock, but that definitely doesn't revolve around the JFK assassination. That's more about what they used to call UFOs and currently call UAP and the UAP what has it done. I saw recent discussions actually about ges.
You know, we see that there are actual patterns related to the interest of these vehicles, etc. That are surrounding our nuclear facilities or at least were it seems as though that's not currently what their focus is. And yet we're still seeing them and they do exist, etc. And guess what, a whole lot of academic data was put together by a team Larry, not all by himself, but as part of a team that did all that work.
What is the name of that organization again, the USC I think it is something like that.
And yeah, Scientific Coalition for Anomalous Phenomena, right, which is basically it's SCU Study of Phenomenous funnel, which which honestly I dislike because I think UFO was very straightforward. But when the new government committee decided to study it again, they made it anomalous phenomena, which, you know, phenomena could be lots of things, so we took it away from being something pretty physical and pretty obvious and made it mysterious again, which I think was going in the wrong direction.
Well, not only could phenomena be a bunch of different things, but so could anomalous. But okay, fine, government speak, what are you going to do? But we got to give them the keywords and phrases and acronyms to go search for because I want them to find your work, and we will put links in the show notes. But if you go over to Larry's blog, and just roll it back a little bit. You can easily see the work that Larry's doing on that as well, So not only j Kay and moderating a chat room for us and
everything else. Maybe you're not traveling, but you're still doing a whole lot of work.
And I know you.
Dread volunteering for another book because it's so funny I've seen, Larry. Now, well, I've got an article. Okay, so I've got a monograph. Okay, maybe I have a book. Every time he dives into something, it seems, I mean not every time, but it seems to have happened I don't know, good three, four or five times since I've known you, Larry.
Is that a pattern or what it seem?
It does seem to work that way, and I've decided that it's a good thing. I didn't set out to make a career as a short story writer.
They just would not have worked out.
Yes, now it is a novel and a masterpiece. We could blame everything on Rex, right, Larry.
Yeah, that will do for the moment, without a doubt.
Well, at the end of the day, yeah, yeah, and.
There will be there will be more. At this point, it's kind of interesting.
The Oversight Committee in Congress is looking at four different subjects right, three assassinations and UFOs, and I've provided material that's working with the committee on all four areas. Beginning to lose track of who I tell what about which?
Yeah, I mean, Larry, at this point, the only thing you're not working on is the Epstein files.
But stay tuned, folks. You never Yeah, I'm kidding. I'm kidding. I'm not trying to push you into anything.
If I were twenty years younger, i'd go for it.
There you have it, So Larry, I appreciate you taking the time. I know we're at the end of your time here that I arranged with you, and I appreciate that as well as the fact that you're with me
every two weeks or so. I'm not sure when we're going to come back to this because obviously we're not going to be able to get to anything, you know, the week of the conference, so I'll probably talk to you, I don't know, maybe around Thanksgiving or maybe the week after, and we'll get back together and you know, maybe do a post mortem on the conference or something like that if that suits you, and if not, we'll talk about
your next project. Or your current project or whichever article is about to you know, you know, germinate into a book. We shall see, right, But in the meantime, Larry, I really appreciate it, and everybody go to Larrydashhancock dot com. That again is where you can keep up with well. I'll give you the links in the show notes because most of you are going to catch the podcast. So the thing is, go in the show notes and take
a look under Larry Hancock. You'll find a link to his blog, a way to find his books, and usually I'll put something there. Likely it'll be the Oswalt Puzzle, a direct link, because if you don't have it already, you need to get it, and you're gonna want to follow up when these guys add to it as well, because his co author David Boylan and himself will be presenting at the Lancer conference, as I said before the twenty first to the twenty third of November.
So thank you.
Larry, oh, thanks Chuck. I appreciate It's good to see Joe again, and I'll probably drop off, but I'll be connecting with everybody remotely during the conference, so everybody safe travels and we'll we'll get together with you all again electronically then exactly, thank.
You, Larry.
I joined a few minutes early just to say hi to you and crash your last couple of minutes, so your segonment. But I do have unidentified one and a half feet behind me, and I'm all right my dad recently surprise attack, so because highly of it. So and if you don't have the Oswalt puzzle, what the hell are you doing? And I think we're going to talk in about a month on our thing, this thing, all right.
I'll joining you to take a look at that and just make a note. David and I need to talk more about Tony Verona, but that's another story by Chuck.
We'll see you in Dallas one way of the.
There you go, I'll see, I'll see in the movies. Everybody stick around. We're gonna take a quick break here and when we come.
Back, we'll have Joe BURRELLI with us and uh pitch.
In Denial Secret Wars with air strikes and Tanks by Larryhncock. Secret Wars became a staple of US covert operations and are still happening today. Larryhancock's book in Denial Rips the cover off many of them using new files.
It exposes things about the Bay and Pigs that no one has ever written about before. It shows why it really failed and why the United States did not earn from it. It also shows why other countries today are doing secret operations with more success. This is the book that puts what some want to deny into the light. In Denial secret wars with air strikes and tanks Larryhancock. For more information, go to Larry hyphen Handcock dot com. Pick up your copy of In Denial at Amazon dot com.
In digital or physical work?
Do you like history? Real history that you were never taught in schools? Why the Vietnam War Nuclear Bombs in Nation Building in Southeast Asia by author Mike Swanson, with new documentation never seen before that'll open your eyes to events that led up to this. Why the Vietnam War Nuclear Bombs in Nation Building in Southeast Asia nineteen forty five through nineteen sixty one. Get your copy today at Amazon dot com. Why the Vietnam War by author Mike Swanson.
Travel through calm sage.
The War State by Michael Swanson explains the great national transformation that took place and put the Kennedy presidency in the context of The Times and reveals never before published information about the Cuban missile crisis.
President Kennedy would not have been assassinated if he had been president two hundred years ago.
His assassination took place in the context of the Cold War and the rise of the national security state.
Before World War II, the United States was a continental republic.
In the decade that followed, it became an imperial superpower.
Generals such as Curtis LeMay not only wanted to invade Cuba, but knew that there were short range missiles on the island arn't with nuclear warheads that they could not destroy because they were on mobile launchers.
Their invasion could have led to a Third World War, and they wanted to go to war anyway.
The War State by Michael Swanson reveals why and will show you what President Kennedy was up against.
For more information, the Warstate dot Com