Ochelli Effect 10-13-2025 Dennis Brennan

Get ready for October thirteen, and we're not even close to Halloween, but it is that date allegedly, according to that thing we call a calendar.

And this is the Ocelli effect.

Despite the strange sound you heard from your host, Yeah, my throat's sore, but that's okay. We're gonna give you a little more this week anyway. Now it is a Moonday or a Monday, and it is not my standard broadcast day, but I had a guess that I wanted to get on as soon as possible. And why not because I think of him as a rock star or anything. I've never heard of him before until.

He emailed me, and he emailed.

Me and told me he was listening to the Friday night open mic show.

And you know what, He's one.

Of the handful of people that actually responded to my own plea okay for individuals to, you know, to think about what it is they're saying and how much of their own opinions that they are so strongly committed to that they seem to be married to, are you know.

Are they actually their own?

Can I even articulate this process that I'm witnessing happening where literally, I mean I hate those AI things, but I utilized it in order to find out that people were literally, whether knowingly or unknowingly, reading the same script that they were also consuming one way or another in their different algorithm driven streams of media and in the news apps they have, and in the language they were using. It was all common and it wasn't just common terminology.

And I'm witness and there's among.

People that I deal with all the time, and even I've found a couple of things in my own speech patterns when I looked at guess what the AI printed transcripts of this show? Where I am not working with the script, I'm running with a couple of notes.

These are my own thoughts.

And yet I still found some duplication of things that I was being exposed to.

Right there and robatea repetition, I mean, talk about mocking bird here we are.

But anyway, this guy wrote to me about it and actually heard my plea for please, how do we serve this out?

How do we improve this? How do we.

Convince people that they are literally risking their lives, investing their treasure, giving up things for things that they believe of supreme importance their opinions, and they're not necessarily even their own anyway. Via email was entitled unpacking political witch hunt switch Dennis Brennan. So I assume I've made contact with Dennis Brennan because that's what the email tax say.

Your mind open.

And also situational awareness is a psychological strategy that is not only important, but could result in greater in greater success when it comes to your personal survival and integrity at the same time.

Anyway, enough out of me, Dennis, this is an interesting thing that you caught the show and you are occupied with something else.

So first I want to find out how you're doing tonight, and then immediately after that, I'd like you to tell people what it is you do and you know and where you're at here, because there's some suggestions in the email.

Here that give me an idea that you and I are.

Going to have an interesting discussion about and conversation and aline My entire work is through conversation. So yeah, how you're doing and tell me and everybody here what it is.

Okay, Well, thanks check, thanks for having me on. I I'm doing well today. Uh, and I think I've been doing well trying to talk about my book while I've been out there.

I'm an attorney.

I've been an attorney for thirty five years, also a political historian, very involved in local political campaigns for many years.

They probably don't know much about Aaron Burr.

Well, you know, that was going to be my first question actually, because I know who Aaron Burr is and the ending of his political honesty in America is rather fascinating just in and of itself. But he has a legacy here that a lot of people don't necessarily know the name, except they might know that he was involved

You know, John F.

Kennedy was killed in Dallas, Texas, and a man named Lee Harvey Oswald either was the assassin or is the alleged assassin, and it was assumed that he's the guy based on the warrant commission end of story. And that would be a lengthy entry for the John F. Kennedy assassination, which doesn't begin to explain it doesn't begin to put it in context or anything else. Much of our history is this. It's worse than Wikipedia. And yeah, I know

Well, well, I you know, I don't blame you, because you know, we have some bad apples, just like like every profession. I think, you know, the one thing that's probably true is when a lawyer shows up in your life, it's probably going to cost your money one way or the other.

You know, that's that's a fact.

But I think when you compare lawyers, you know, we used to, you know, wonder about car salesman, right, used car salesmen were in the bottom wrong? Then you know, lawyers were getting that, you know tag at some point. I think now it's more the media when we talk about you know, which which job or which career is the worst it I think people now distrust the media more than even lawyers.

So and I've been in both.

I was also a small newspaper reporter editor.

I even owned a newspaper for a while.

And it is difficult because journalism has changed over the years.

Well that's another thing is I used to have journalists on and we talked about, you know, the spirit of the business. Like a lawyer theoretically should be somebody I respect and appreciate. But I don't mean I don't even care about the money comes and goes. Okay, money is not the issue with lawyers. I'm telling you. They bring misery as far as I'm concerned, and it's not just based on a divorce, uh, you know, which I have experienced as well. Uh and a pretty profoundly brutal one.

But either way, it doesn't matter. That's not what I hold against them.

Okay, But I just understand that I watch a TV show like Better Call Saul, and I really wish most of you were like that guy as opposed to what it is I see in real life. I'm telling you now, so you know. But then again, I also hold your average let's hold up Italian businessman or other ethnic businessman

And ultimately they go to well.

You just you know, arbitration through courts and through and I'm like, oh, oh no, no, no, no, no.

There's got to be a better way, you know.

Because I don't trust the court system. I see things going the wrong way all the time. And much like a whole lot of other elements in society, you know, what people.

Buy their way through.

If you have enough money, you.

Can buy what they call justice. You can buy a good result.

But if you don't, you can get ground up, either in the criminal court system or the civil court system, or you know, by basically being paid off in a way that is really a pittance compared to the damage done to you. No matter what it is you know,

Like to read the books of the guests before they come on.

But frankly, just seeing your email, I envisioned that you and I might have to have more than one conversation. Okay, if you're willing, and I'm willing because I want to explore this. So you put up his book and you do have a different sense of Donald Trump, which you and I discussed off air before we joined the audience here. But maybe you could explain to me what it is that now makes somebody who is in the legal profession so therefore has an opportunity to make money win or lose. Okay,

Yeah, I think so, I think you know the idea of you know, we first of all, we have like eighty thousand attorneys in Illinois, so we have we have plenty of attorneys to represent just about everybody. And that's when I went to law school, I think the number was thirty thousand. By the time I graduated, it was up the sixty thousand. So we have an overabundance of attorneys.

Politics.

You know, you wonder like why I would do something maybe that's not as financially rewarding. I have to tell you, I served on a school board, two school boards over the course of twelve years, and we don't get paid for school board work, and that it was rewarding.

But you don't get paid, So are you wasting time? Absolutely? And I had I had another, you know job.

Basically when I was doing the newspaper work, it was never for the money. It was to get opinions out there. I suppose to cover news. Maybe the others weren't covering. I always felt that even at that time, the journalism that we had wasn't very good. When I when I went to school. You know, journalism it's who, what, when, where, or why and how? You know, the five w's the

Right, and there needs to be a methodology here because I observed the same thing in what's the alleged news business? Some people would, you know, take it back to the time when broadcast news was done as a public service, not as a for profit industry, and people would say, well, what happens here is that we're serving the existing and waiting audience what it is they want. And I think that has been taken to an extreme in what I always refer to as the Brady Bunch format, which is,

The one that has the title in it.

Well, they split the screen on TV, right, and then here we go, here's the stand in is it? You know, the standard guy who's going to argue on one side. Maybe he's got a partner. Here's two other people that are guests. They're there to promote their books or whatever, or their blogs, and they're there, they're on the other side,

Quite honestly, each news show.

Takes on a niche where you know, like the old Don Lemon show is the easiest one to not the one he does online on YouTube now, but the one he did for CNN was the easiest one to sort of you know, encapsulate in a quick summary, which was okay. So first hour, we're going to deal with the outrage

Try and be objective. And now I'm going to throw.

That on the table in the same arena, like I said, with a couple of substitutions, almost like it's a basketball game and second half. You know, you rest your stars for the first quarter, this kind of thing, all right, And then in between the commercials, which are often you know, inserted in a rather interesting way and might actually influence content.

It wasn't always like this was it.

There was a time, I mean you mentioned the who, when, where, why? You're talking about the literal like middle school level of journalism where they told you you have to structure that in the first paragraph. Now, how do I know this because I took those classes and I did beyond high school as an education. But you know what, I educated myself afterwards. So stay tuned. But that's the reality is that it really was that simple. At one time, you

Yeah, you know, I think it started to go out actually earlier than most people realize.

I think when Watergate hit.

I think Wood, Orton, Bernstein became superstars and how they're writing books.

There's a movie about them.

People I think in journalism started thinking, wait a minute, I can make money and I can be a celebrity. And it's slowly has creeped upon us over the years. I mean, it's interesting when you ask journalists, they all think they're not biased, right, they all think I do it right down the line, I'm fair balanced, whatever. But when they take polls of the journalists in the newsroom, and they've had these over several years, you know, they'll

That's a problem.

But there's even a bigger problem beyond that, where a lot of the people are coming from government going to the networks in important positions. Not only like George Stephanopolis, who was a big advisor to Clinton, doing the news shows now as if he's a journalist, but the people running the networks, you know, running the news network part are people who have been in government, who have been in the Obama administration or the Clinton administration, and they're

Around these guys.

I don't have to deal with the media the same way I used to deal with it, or Republicans in general used to deal with it, because they're not being fair. They've already, you know, basically made up their mind. They've written the story. Now they want to just get you to throw a quote in there and make you look silly.

See what's strange is I detect a sincerity about what it is you're saying. And I've heard this argument over the years, and I've got to tell you, I find it to be counterfactual completely. And the reason is that that is through the lens that you're choosing to see it. I see it through a slightly different lens, and I have people tell me that I'm insane. Now I'm obviously capable of thinking above. You know, the pay grade is somebody who's got a bad high school diploma, and that's it.

When I try and explain that.

I think that is a narrow view of what it is you're observing, and the problem is that we don't understand. I think that in some cases, Okay, I'll take the Donald Trump thing on because it is the biggest piece to bite off and try and chew. Here where I'm constantly told, look, the media has been against him, he's gone around it. I find that to be entirely false,

Literally, you could witness it.

On a grab that Donald Trump's popularity or the negative benefited the entirety of the broadcast and the news business in general. If you were covering Donald Trump, whether you were totally against him or you were the propaganda machine that.

The Rupert Murdochs of the world were running.

Either way, you know, here's your choices. It's all on a menu of choices. You want to hate Trump, you want to pretend like you're being objective, or you want to go all full throated with him because he's a disruptor, he's an outsider and all that. We have something on our menu for you. And the thing to remember about the menu they offer you at a restaurant is you know, oh, I'm making a choice. Yeah, but a lot of choices were made for you because you didn't design the menu

Somebody who's a news analyst.

I mean there's another guy who was a hustler from the same region I grew up in, and you know what, he hustled his way into an alleged legitimacy as far as being a presenter on MSNBC, for God's say. So you know, when you combine that with and back to Hillary real fast, I think there was a major miscalculation here is that even if the CIA wanted to directly steal an American election on her behalf, I don't think the American people would have bought it because there were

Here doing his clown show.

And I couldn't get legitimate Hillary supporters unless they were directly operatives and being paid by the campaign. I couldn't get just regular people in the come on and even begin to tell me why she's such a great idea, you know. And so she was such a pathetically and unrelatable character. I mean, think about this. She went out with the great grandma of you, right and been the kindly grandma. She had the opportunity to sell that as political capital out there to say, look, I'm just like you,

I mean, and this isn't about politics, I'm.

Telling you, this is about, you know, her less than capable ability to interact with the media, with people directly, and to be relatable as another human being in America. She was incapable of that, you know. And so Bill Clinton, you know, he could sell you stuff with And I know right now I probably sound more like Clinton than I usually do, but I mean thing is he was like that with his horse voice and is biting his

And why did he have that support.

Because he was saying things that were, you know, clean to the fact that people had felt as though they had been left behind and shut out of the system, ignored and now abused by the system that was meant to serve them. And he literally said, no, we're going to get the people that did that to you.

We're going to.

Change everything because I'm like you.

And I can't be bought.

And you know what, that sounds pretty good when you have alien woman over here, you know, allegedly being a candidate. She was so terrible and they miscalculated so bad, thinking there's no way that somebody's going to buy this joke over here that you know the miss and they miscalculated earlier.

Than him having the nomination.

But when I said this, old Roger Stone off the air and then partially on air, he said, you know what the problem is, Chuck, You sorely misunderstand the amount and the level of narcissism that you're looking at with Trump. This is a guy who is in no way connected to your world of thinking. He is on another level. He really believes that he can run everything because he always has and he's always been successful even when he fails. And I said, wow, yeah, and that's Roger Stone, who

By the way, I'm a fan of rober Stones.

I'm just saying I know that this guy was effective as a political operative and somebody who got things done, regardless of how they wanted to do him dirty and get him out of the establishment and get him away from everybody because he was dangerous to you know, the politic dajure of any given time period. And you notice I haven't gone for against anybody here. I'm telling you what I see as far as what was workable in the media.

You know, even people that cast the Jerry Springer Show.

Legitimately weren't necessarily in love with Jerry Springer, but the action made them feel good or better, et cetera, et cetera. And that's what Donald Trump did. The words, let's lock her up because we feel that she's responsible.

Let's get these.

People who have tried to, you know, make our lives miserable and unlivable. And you know what, that grievance, that appeal to grievance gave him the ability to say, give me the authority and I'll do it. And people bought that because at least it sounded real. I'm sorry, I know that was a long rant, but I wanted to explain that right away. Your premise fothers me because I see it in this light. So please help help me to see your side of it.

Yeah, let me, there's a lot there. I'll agree with that if you put a lot there. I mean, you start with did the media build up Trump? Yes, I think they did, but it started in the primary, and I think they did that with the purpose of Trump being the candidate they thought Hillary could beat.

I think when you look at.

Uh, I agree with you on that, just.

Ahead and you know, and it's like he was a star on MSNBC, right, Joe Scarborough, who now dislikes him.

I guess we had him on all the time.

Trump would call in, and I think those relationships, so they lay out in the book, the owners, not so much the people, like the president of NBC at the time, her what she called her life partner, was a lobbyist, you know, and he also worked for mauryel Bowser, the Democrat mayor in DC. You had ABC had their news executive producer Mary to Susan Rice. The CBS president, David Rhodes, was the brother of Ben Rhoades, who was in Obama's

I don't.

I just think they're misled. They don't, you know, to the point that you made originally in the previous show. You believe things that you keep being told, and the media is one of those brainwashing mechanisms, as is our education system and a lot of our institutions.

Right here, I have a question in this pocket, please, because okay, you mentioned the debate, and yes, on the one hand, you're very correct.

There's all these people that are democratic operatives and all that. But then you have to square it with what happened, which is, okay, the debates happened. And when I had Roger Stone on Jeb Bush, he was writing a book to basically kneecap Jed Bush in the primary. Okay, he put out that book. It wasn't very popular, it wasn't necessary because Jeed Bush, you know, took himself out. All right. Meanwhile the Democrats are turning around and making sure to really manipulate a selection process.

When he came to Bernie.

Sanders directly, okay, because he actually had people that were enthusiastics supporting him among the Democrats, we totally removed him from the equation, you know, just based on what it is they wanted to do, regardless of what the people wanted.

So there you go. But the interesting thing.

About Trump and the debates is that he didn't even win a debate. What he did is go in there and say, you know what, realistically, a debate is not just about winning. Now most people think that's all it is, you know, win your point when your argument. Debating in more than that, Donald Trump walked in there without the knowledge of a how to really debate anything, but he did know how to win an argument, and those are

And I mean, so you've got.

To recognize it that way in my mind, So the people in these media organizations, regardless of their intent, when they saw this, they could have corralled it and put a stop to it and taken the spotlight off of him if they really wanted to strategically defeat him. But that wasn't what it was about. It was about the fact that some of them were on their way out business wise. People had stopped watching a lot of this stuff.

People were bored with it.

And knew they were being deceived, you know, for political talking points. You know, like I said about the astrasenttion stuff and removing the drug you know, any criticism of drugs that were literally being marketed and killing people. You didn't see big news stories on that. You saw new stories about drug companies doing well because you know, magically and just go instantly that's who their sponsors were. You didn't see them being guys and they were literally killing people.

Air, stopped giving him the controversy.

I mean, even when they dug up the Access Hollywood team, that was a search they did trying to come up with something anything, because they wanted the sensational breaking headline. Everybody wants to meet TMZ, you know completely probably there going.

Another lawyer running a media out.

There right, And here we go.

The way I'm viewing it. And again you might think I'm crazy or maybe I got intense, you know, because I'm just sort of hostile towards disingenuous people.

But I mean, if i'scle towards.

Disingenuous people, I should really stay away from politics and media people, because that's what I'm gonna get is a lot of fake not just fake news, but how about fake newspeople and fake politicians. They're not real, they're not legitimate, they're not really speaking to their values or their reality.

They're here to come and that's what they do.

Well, no, I think you know, you hit on something that I wanted to make sure we didn't pass up. Like you mentioned the Hollywood Access tape. Hollywood Access, Right, that's the show that came out. You know, they knew about it, but it came out a month before the election. So he's already the candidate that they've helped create because they think he's going to lose, and then a month before they realized, wait a minute, he might win this thing.

Does not care about that.

And I think also you have you know, a lot of even the regular Republicans were at that point upset because you know, Obama Hillary Clinton were both attacking Republicans in general for years. So it almost becomes I'm not voting for them, and so I think that Hollywood Access tape. Yeah, they were trying to take him out at that point, and usually that works with most candidates, right, It didn't work with Trump.

He used to, but I think Bill Clinton taught it's a different lesson because remember, the moral high ground was supposed to be a big deal. Now I'm not concerned, and I'll tell you I was part of that then, and that was one of my you know, my first

I didn't like George H. W.

Bush.

I didn't like him.

It wasn't about Democrat Republican. It was just about I found Clinton likable and the thing is he gets caught up in a scandal where he's taking advantage of his position and power over this girl. Her life is ruined, right, can't even be faithful to his wife, so therefore, you know how we're going to trust him with the country. This was, you know, part of the moral outrage of

Way is talk radio.

It survives even today, just barely, based on the fact that it is absolutely loaded and has only been successful in the political game. You can do sports radio or you can do conservative.

Radio, and that's it.

In Rush Limbaugh, you know, crack, that coach very well figured it out how to work at that. But there are, you know, many of them. Before Rush Limbaugh. There was a guy named Bob Brant, New York that I used to listen to all the time. He used to start his shows by basically insulting Mario Clmo with an Italian every.

Day, and I used to listen to him. You know, Curtis Sleeve was running for mayor.

Now, yeah, he was a Guardian angel and he was almost seen as a lefty kind of but he never was, and he's now what the Republican.

Candidate for mayor in New York not doing well? But there he is.

Right, that's pretty substantial of the change.

But here's the deal. Bill Clinton did.

Something that normally should have disqualified him on his character. Uh. And you know, most of America, in all honesty, even though with the impeachment and everything else. And I'm bringing him up only because he's a Democrat, even with the impeachment and everything else, a lot of people like myself kind of went, so what because you know and that yeah, and that's what happened with access Hollywood. And meanwhile, Bill Clinton literally had a physical relationship that was proven in public.

And he lied on the oath.

And still people like me said, yes, so what, who's not gonna lie about cheating on his wife? I mean seriously, that was what it boiled down to.

So yeah, he got the bill, you know, and he knew that he knew them Trump did at the time, by the way, but anyway, go ahead.

No, I think you know, that's a real good example. Clinton might have been the one that that broke it right that uh, it didn't matter you know if people because that was the excuse and that excuse even went on when you know, George W. Bush became president and what were people yelling on the other side. You know, Bush lied and people died, you know, and for and they would say that when Clinton lied, it was about sex.

Yeah, but you know he had moved not because of character. He wasn't you know, politically taken down because of his character. You know this, he was politically taken down because he had and people forget, he had been part of those investigations that were challenging and actually pulling some of the dirt that people were doing the government out in the public. So that's why he had to be sidelined. That's why Gary Hart went out.

If you don't believe me, check.

Out you know, his involvement with some of the investigations and the slew of them that occurred in the nineteen seventies, which by the way, is also part of his calculus here. And I'm not even going to go too deep into the Iran contrast to that year. Another thing we're seeing that both sides of the equation do the dirty thing, and if the public doesn't care, take the public doesn't care, you know, I mean Barack Obama. I can make this

Now, I know that.

That guy is not popular, and if I bring up his name, people are going to go, yes, so much. But Barack Obama literally ordered the murder of an American citizen on foreign soil. That's a historical factor, okay, and more than one in my estimation. But you know what I'm talking about.

Right, yeah?

And I think you know I've mentioned this to other people when they talk about so called crimes by the president. You know, it's like he said, be careful because you never know if they want to look back at others who have done things that you know aren't authorized by Congress, and he just you know, as the commander in chief, you have a lot of leeway and often they finish it.

You have a lot of leeway, even contradicting the oath that you took to take that office. You know, he's supposed to defend it ready, the people of the United States against all enemies, barre and domestic. That doesn't seem to invite that you can call a drone strike on a guy that you've declared to be a terrorist. Whether he was a terrorist or not is irrelevant. You didn't give him a due process. You didn't give him the opportunity to the constitution to do what to prove his

Guess what.

Yeah, the American people are going to look at that and go, yes, so what And I don't blame them considering you know, if I want to dig, I can find all kinds of interesting things. It used to be a problem when we had a president who wasn't even you know, no military service. You refuse military service, you're a draft dodger.

All that stuff.

He used to count too, And then what Bill Clinton? Right, so no military service. Don't even attempt to pretend like you did. I mean, Ronald Reagan didn't serve either. But you know, here we go, right, no military service and Rile Trump is canet bone spurs as far as I'm concerned, you know, and went to a military academy that was paid for so he can walk around that uniform. But that's the closest he ever came to serving. So now he's commander in chief. Where's the outrage over that? People

You know what I'm saying.

It just.

Yes, I do know what you're saying.

And I think it's funny because some of the people maybe that said there was no due process back when Obama was doing his thing now would say, you don't need due process on the you know, the drug cartels that are you know, in the boats that Trump is blowing up.

And vice versa.

Well, the Democrats have offended Obama now say where's due process?

And we, as Americans?

I think the great thing about being an American maybe or maybe the sad thing is we switch our positions based on where our party is, you know, and.

That seems to be constant. That's the only thing is constant in politics.

Right, the only thing that's kind of se I learned this in New Jersey because Jersey politics the outsiders that have never experienced it, you know, up front and closed. I think that in a lot of cases that New Jersey's a blue state and it's liberal and this and that, and you totally misunderstand Jersey if you think that, because it's not. It's a clearly purple state that literally swings back and forth like those things that used to sit on the desk with the metal balls that we click

And it is corrupt. It is corrupt too.

But it's not, you know, at the level that some people like to portray it as. And it's not New York City either, even though if you live in New Jersey and you say the words the city, you're talking about New York, you're not even talking about a city in Jersey. But the reality is it's attached to New

Party in absolute.

Now, people would say, well, what about Atlanta, what about Savannah. Yeah, there's these blue sploshes in there that indeed make an impact because they have the better media outlets, But in reality it doesn't matter. You can't beat the rest of the state with just you know, a couple of cities.

It doesn't work.

And I'm even sitting in an allegedly blue area in Macon, Georgia right now. This is where I live, and Macon is you know, they elect a Democratic mayor or whatever. But the truth is all they keep doing consistently is electing corrupt people and the city gets fleeced and then we move on to the opposite side of the equation. So that's why that Democrat's theirs, because the last Republican flees them, and then they'll put this Democrat in and he hasn't done it quite yet, although there's already.

Allegations it'll come out this guy. I'll flee them and then they'll switch to the Republicans.

This is what they do. So I kind of feel at home almostly it's Jersey because of this, you know, arbitrary switching back and forth, thinking that one side or the other is going to do something different. Yeah, and so but anyway back to this overall thing about Trump and Jeb Bush. Jeb Bush was a failure as a

It's gonna be like I'll leave.

Versus Foreman, let's do it again, and that's what they're gonna do here. I really felt that way, and I was almost shocked when Trump was taken seriously and then I saw what you saw, which was they were gonna undermine and destroy this guy as a candidate. And therefore it was like, look, we're gonna let this guy get in there and even encourage it because he's going to be so easy to be. Now, I knew that was a miscalculation, but I in no way thought this guy

Never have been bought.

It would have been like, here's what happened, folks, We won the war because the Cats were out of space, intervened and decided to fight on our side in the air, and therefore we won.

Nobody would buy this.

Nobody would buy that Millary Clinton was a you know, voted in by potting and ellectedly she won the popular vote, which.

Tells you something. And by the way, I have.

Questions about a lot of elections and the manipulation on both sides, although I don't believe for a second that either any of the elections in recent times were actually stolen.

Constructs here in America.

Almost be like, you know what malpractice on the KGB and gru's.

Part if they didn't do that.

So they are actively doing it, and they are actively trying to insert themselves into our political discourse at all times. And yeah, we see it sometimes. And really, if you look at the rise of our team and the shifting of the media about fifteen years ago and ten years ago especially, you know that there was a propaganda and a you know, any sort of a dark and yet direct campaign to run a PSI off on the American

And yet, like I.

Said, the immediate response is there to get people to react, not to inform them. And that's the key here with this, with his cable news and these different outlets that.

Have risen up, and take a look at it. Look at what's risen up.

You know, in the past ten years, I mean Newsmax was what a YouTube channel. In my mind, it was nothing. You know, Ruddy's organization over there.

Now it's an entity. You know.

You have Oann, you have the Rise of the Epoch times. You have, like I said, Ruper Murdoch consistently, though, has run his propaganda outlet exactly down the line, even when he discarded a guy like Bill O'Reilly, who I used to religiously.

Watch by the way, you know.

And that's the other thing that people get this idea that I'm some kind of liberal now because it sounds like I'm being hostile to trumble. But I think you recognize where I'm coming from, even if you disagree with it. And that's because you're actually hearing what I say. And there is the key problem with the witch hunts and how they're informed and how they're motivated. So you know, let's get back to that, all right and talk about it.

Who the political operative is, or although Riverta is a.

Great example of yeah, try and tell me where he's really coming from. Okay, And like Howard Stern in the equation, which by the way, has been popular as far as dragging out clips of Donald Trump, because hey, that's what the Howard Stern Show does. Show you dirt, and you're supposed to, you know, hear things that you're not supposed to hear on him.

So that's why you got what you got.

There.

Although it is weird some of the stuff the Trump.

Said on there, but hey, go back through anybody's interviews on there, you'll find it unless they were very very careful.

I mean, even O. J.

Simpson previous to the murder trial. You take a listen to that interview. It's kind of creepy.

What Howard Stern has a talent for.

Getting people to voluntarily spit out on the show.

So that's why he needed to make anyway.

And you might have different opinions on all of this, but I think the media landscape, even the people that are analyzing and criticizable or oversimplified what it is, they're looking at strategically because I say again, Donald Trump effectively saved a lot of the news organizations that he now says are the enemy within. He saved that. He gave them the content directly. He's a content generator. Even when he wasn't in office, he was.

A content generator.

And previously is you know, expansious into the world of polity. He was a content generator, whether it was on lifestyles of the rich and famous, or he was involved in you know, some small scandal or you know, and notice I haven't even gone into Jeffrey Epstein, which you know, by the way, is the ubiquitous problem and is representative of a larger ubiquitous problem. But you and I might have to have that discussion another.

Day, so please continue on.

But you do recognize what I'm saying about this media landscape not necessarily bring the black and white world that a lot of people want to make it into. Or do you think I'm out of line with wor.

No.

I think you're right, and I think you hit on a point that's also in the book about how the media has changed. I think you know, you mentioned some of those networks, but it's also we have now, we have.

Blogs, we have podcasts.

You know, we have You know how Joe Rogan influenced the election more than most journalists the last election, or at least he's getting credit for it when Trump went on there. And I think now people are getting their information, whether it's news or not, in many different ways.

And you know Trump has played into that.

He may have saved those legacy media I call him the den media, but it's the same thing.

He may have saved them as temporary.

I think you know the numbers are down for those networks they have trouble.

They have much more competition, even with streaming, you know, for other choices.

We even look at the late night programs, you know, the Tonight Show and well now we're going to have one last with Colbert leven and May. But those shows became much more one sided politically, and I don't know if that's the reason they're going. I think that might be part of it. The other reason is, you know, it might be all tied together. I could tell you from my own experience. I didn't find it funny, so I find something else to watch at that time, and that's I suspect a lot of.

People do that. I don't have any hard data and that except that they've lost you know, viewers. And you know, part of that I think is Trump.

No, it's absolutely Trump, and he led the way here and now I'm going to tell you what he actually set up to continue. Yes, indeed, you know, broadcast media in general is dying, and people showing up at five o'clock, six o'clock, eight o'clock to catch their favorite shows is the thing in the past. So the dynamic, the interaction the audience is so compartmentalized and set.

Into so many different directions.

Okay, it's it's gone way beyond the five hundred channels I'm paying for and I've only.

Watched four of them. It's in a whole other arena now. And I think what he's set up and set in.

The Motion is the new media landscape which is represented by Joe Rogan. I don't even find Joe Rogan funny, and I don't even find his interviews interesting most of the time. I got to tell you, they're not very revealing, they're not very unique, and quite frankly, I think he's been given a privileged position in media. You know, somehow this guy is magically the most popular thing in the world, and I don't think he's done anything of relevant since he did Fear Factor.

The guy is not interesting to make. But here's the thing.

No matter who you are, whether you want to live on YouTube or you want to find your favorite podcast, Okay, if you're you know, listening to one of the other great you know podcasts of the day, or you're involved in the streaming thing where you have your shows you know, delivered to you on demand all the time, this is the new media reality.

And I think he said it in Motion. Why do I say that we can see it directly. Like I brought up Bill O'Reilly early.

Now he has his own platform.

Okay, what happened They.

Got rid of Chris Cuomo. He went over to the Christian Christian Nation station. But eventually I'm pretty sure he'll be independent.

You know, the guys like Tucker Carlson, who you know, regardless of what people think of.

His background, has served in every type of flavor.

Of media as if he knows that it's all about the corporatism as opposed to any other ism. And he's supposed to be a conservative and now he's taking on trying to be the hero of the alternative media when this guy's been a corporate media guy his entire career.

But these guys, slowly but surely, look at what they're doing. Colbert, indeed, I think, is going to reboot himself as.

The old you know, Colbert Rapport character and go out.

There and be the conservative mockery again because it'll seem press in this current era. Okay. And that's where we're at, is that this is now going to become a compartmentalized thing where instead of the massive corporation being represented in one you know, chunk in one channel, you're gonna have these guys who are going to cooperate.

And appear to be independent, and.

They're gonna be out there on their own because that's what the market demands, a mentalized, personalized thing where you know what, instead of just yelling at Don you know, Don Lemon on Twitter and yelling at your TV, you now can go to this chat room on YouTube but he streams and directly comment at him and he might read it directly file yes, yeah, and.

It's more direct.

And like I said, Bill O'Reilly's done it. These other guys that have been demonized for one reason or another or you know, gotten acquired allegedly, they move on to other careers and they do it in a different way, and they still exist and they continue on and I still see that they get you know, preferential treatment one.

Way or another. Okay, I mean even look at the guy.

Who on Fox.

I found that amazing that a guy said that we should, you know, voluntarily you know, give lethal injections, involuntarily excuse me.

Give lethal injections.

Almost people the clear of that problem. You know, you would have thought there would have been outrage and this guy would have gotten channed.

Over that, you know what, Okay, let me give.

A disant jet apology.

Moving on.

That's not against what it is they're doing at Box.

And trust me, that might be a guy.

Who eventually is you know, kicked out or removed or whatever controversy, and they will find a way to give him another slot.

Somewhere else where he's allegedly independent.

You know. Even the world.

Watch Jones is interesting here because this was a guy was on Access TV, came from the bottom where he was paying to air his shows.

Right, and then he got involved with radio and.

He's part of Genesis and this and that and in pult War certain you're up the triple the screen buying.

My stomach, uh, you know, and I knew.

People work with them.

And he transitioned from ringe nothing okay to magically a completely mainstream guy who's still screaming that he's not mainstream. And that's the funny thing because if you remember Fox News in its earlier incarnation, they were saying we're not the mainstream media, yet are the mainstream media And they even carry a see media name by calling themselves Fox.

And it was assembled piece by piece.

By Rupert Murdoch who went around and.

Bought independent TV channels all over the country so that he created.

A brand new network.

So you know, when you see this and then you see these transitions and handoffs between these different entities that now deliver it in a different package, I think you're just seeing, you know.

And again, podcasts not too long ago, we're laughable.

A blog was like, oh god, why don't you to scream at the wood at the wall because you're not.

Going to be read by anybody, You're not gonna be hurt by anybody. And now it's becoming what the new actual standard need.

These things are transition, right, and you know, so the but.

Yet the corporate thing remains in play because who backs it at the end of the day, who's actually you know, conglomerating these things? Okay, now part of this podcast network, and it gives strength to something like iHeart Radio, which now owns you on.

Any like radio station's iHeart Radio owns. And how many podcasts outlets they own.

They're huge.

And what was I you know, not too long ago, you know nothing, It was like it's sort of like jet Jet Peso says one of the largest you know, entities.

On the planet.

And meanwhile, it was a bookseller in my lifetime. I remember it in the nineties.

It was like, oh, you want to buy a book, go to Amazon and maybe they'll sell you some CDs.

And that was it.

It was just an outing for that stuff. And now what is That's what we're seeing is a shift of the technology and.

The delivery and an audience that is demanding something that absolutely is custom made by them, they think, but it's really just then wring off the slightly different venue than what they used to have.

So what do you think of that?

Yeah, I think it's a it's a good point.

I think also, you know, you leave out X with Elon Musk, him him purchasing uh what was Twitter?

And then I think he declared we are.

The media now and you know in some ways, yes, you can put you know, links and you know there's certainly something there's some power there.

Social media is a part we haven'tone really touched. Only it's uh.

You know what you make a great point about muscle. Let me ask you about.

That, because you know, Elon muss is not just running Twitter like it was.

It's now X, which by the way, is a standard thing. He slaps an X on everything that he decides to take ownership. That's the standard thing X when he was involved in it.

But anyway, that's actually X. You can broadcast on X live.

You know this right, yeah, yeah.

You effectively a channel on there where you're a podcast and broadcast outlet.

You have the ability to publicize.

That outlet right there, You have the ability to.

Process, you can literally upload accessible videos into.

There and communicate with other people.

He's actually taking that platform and created guests a catch all. All he needs now is something like the communication issue we had where.

You know, we have an automatic get together and.

It doesn't have to be really yes, like, all he needs.

Is a private communications set up, which he already has at his disposal.

Because of Star Like.

He can make X into an.

All in one media experience, whether you're producing it or you're selling it to people or you're actually decided to you know.

Just just watch it.

You have everything with the exception of a streaming. I mean that I can see so far.

So he is doing that and that's where that was going.

And meanwhile, Facebook, you know it's not original because Facebook, you know, Meta is doing the same thing slightly less successful. Is still existing, and a lot of these other platforms are becoming multipurpose.

So this makes sense ball because if you put it.

Together with that independent now or the illusion of independence from these people are cast offs from the legacy media.

Guess what, Betry Wise, who was a blogger, is now.

Going to be running CBS News, right, I mean basically, yeah, I see, And well that's quite an evolution and a switch. So somebody who was you know, in a different decade, would have been seen as a loser blogger that you know only your mother or cat's read, is now a major media organization and deliver your ub Okay, So I mean recognize this too, right, I mean this is a different world, Dennis.

I mean you gotta agree to that at.

Least, right.

Oh yeah, oh absolutely, Technology, like you said, it's it's uh, I don't know, fractured or you have so many different outlets for information.

Maybe I think it's could.

Actually be good honestly, but you know, there's also the downside of it. Right now, when you when you look at anything, or I find myself doing it.

I don't know how many people do this.

I'll read a story and it's incomplete and I have to now go do research. I'm the researcher for the media, just to see what's true what's not.

And I shouldn't have to do that.

I should be able to pick up the Chicago Tribune here and get a story that's not biased or that's at least complete.

They're neither.

They're biased and incomplete, and I have to go and look for the you know, real story behind.

It, which I don't want to do. Really, we're not to have to.

Well, you know what, that's another thing that's coming around.

I almost any corporate sponsor. I don't have any corporate sponsors, so only.

Which is.

That with that model?

Though I saw something called round News. You ever heard of it?

No, I don't think so, okay.

So ground News.

I was going to actually sign The Great Movie with them, and then I just I had to debate for like three months, and I was gonna use them as a.

Sponsor and everything else.

But I can't do it because you know, corporations inevitably exert influence over the people they're working with, and that's been the problem with this kind of media.

If you're really independent, you avoid that.

But these guys, if you ever take into it, they're all you know, still corporate supported. Okay, even the leged independence, even the pariahs like Bill O'Reilly are still corporate supported.

But I am not okay, and that makes me pretty rare.

The thing is the ground news turns around and is an aggregator and swords for you.

Here's the left wing bias, here's the right wing bias. Here is the you know, nearly non.

Biased news right and they'll collect it on a story like you asked about, I don't know, pick a news story for the past, you know, recent hours of okay, cease fire, okay.

Palestine Israel.

It'll sort and show you where the spin is, where they're consistently kind of you know, going on the same line and everything else, and begin to sort the general resources out there on the internet to tell you, look, these are the people that are slanted, These are the people that are mount pieces for the government, these are the people, et cetera.

They actually do that.

And I'm again I'm not being paid, okay, but I almost signed a thing with them to get paid for explaining this, but.

I would have to do at every show.

And again, like I said, I can't sign.

The corporate sponsors. It's just against my against my brain.

But the thing is I did consider it because their work and what they seem to be doing is exactly the answer to what you're talking about.

We are cable of absorting.

This one way or another.

You don't have to get lost in the you know, see of property and what crazy people like you and me.

And here's where I'm gonna put you in the same.

Boat with me, like it or not, you know, crazy what human me might actually try to facts? You know, like I realize when I see a story of police interaction, right, somebody gets shot, somebody gets killed, there's a car accident, and it was in a police interaction.

I know of the majority of what I'm gonna read came from the public information officers email, because.

That's who puts it out there, okay, and actually gets the story out And you can see.

It right away in the reporting where they're like, the.

Police said, the police told us this, and then they'll say a bunch of other things, but it's all.

From one source.

They don't go and get a witness anymore, and they don't try and talk to.

The person who's involved anymore.

None of that.

So what will I do, crazy person? I am try and reach out to people that might be in proximity. Hey, what is this area of town? Like? What actually happened? What were people saying locally? What was seen is there? You know? I do like that personal as much as I can, I reach out, you know.

Make home falls, not just to the cops, you know, I take their side of the story, yes, but.

Then I look at the other stuff.

And you know what, when you do that, you get a completely different view from almost anything that's being published out there, whether the reporter is lazy or biased or not.

You can find information on your own. Who wants to take all that time if you're not being paid.

To investigate everything? So right, there's gotta be more tools that will be developed here.

But that ground news thing is, even if it's not the endgame, it is a great idea.

And I think something that could be out of the people's.

Toolbox is where we aggregate these things together and recognize see.

And that was the core. But what I was talking about on.

That show that night is that if you and you begin to compare these things, you'll see a consistency.

A pattern of behavior and human.

Beings are you know, our mindsets, no matter how you want to argue or what you believe about psychology, because it is a pseudoscience.

In my mind.

The thing is, you do have the capability and built into you is something called the ability to.

Do pattern recognition, and you'll see the pattern to merge.

And there is no reason in the world that the you know, newscaster in Des Moines is telling you the same thing as the guy.

In Chicago is telling you.

The same thing as the guy in la unless they're working off the same source and practically the same script, especially when they were words. And it goes well beyond the Sinclair you know conglomerate where they have and that's another thing that argues against that old liberal media thing, not because Sinclair is a is a conservative outlet, but.

Here you go. They own every kind of alphabet, you.

Know, a type of network broadcaster out there.

They put them together and they still.

Be the same scripts. Throw so your legs liberal.

You know, NBC is reading the same script that a more conservative at one time that scene is more conservative. CBS is reading the same script because they have the same corporate overlord, even though they still carry the different letters.

Okay, so you got to realize this is no longer a come to dry black and white situation. And another thing we didn't touch on even is.

The intelligence agencies and even the pentagons directed and intentional influence over those organizations too.

And we've caught that time of time again.

And I'm not even talking about just the mocking birds of the world or the fact that we had people admitting in the nineteen seventies during Coggression with investigations that yes, we actually.

You know, embent people in our media in order.

To influence it.

And you know, hello, Cia, I thought you weren't supposed to operate domestically, but l.

This is the reality, right. So my whole point is that I just I.

Know I'm being one winded.

And I'm saying a.

Lot of stuff here, but I'm hoping that this.

Is actually the beginning of a conversation between you and me, because I believe that we could objective these things and you could help me some of the confusions I have, and.

Indeed I might give you a couple of new thoughts and a couple of new ways to look at these things. What do you think about that as far as you know, motivating.

Yeah or two?

On this? What do you think.

I like it?

I think it goes to your suggestion we might need to have another conversation, maybe several conversations, right right.

And I know I'm taking up more of your time than I said I would, and I apologize for that, and also apologize for my small pack of dogs that are, you know, somewhere in my house making noise. I apologize hopefully, But you know, I am broadcasting from home on the low budget.

So what do you want.

I do have some sound proofing, but you know it doesn't kill everyone. Okay, sorry, anyway, here we are.

But this is the real deal. Okay, this is the reality of things.

And whether your name is Cuomo or you know your name.

Is Lemon or whatever else.

He came from the alleged left, or you know, you're one of the ultra conservative guys out there, or you're a really big ball of confusion like Carondo Rivera.

I think media figures are all going to.

Graduate into this podcast space one way or.

Another if they are popular enough on their own, you know, like John Stewart is now, yeah he's back on the Daily Show and he's part of that corporate entity. But also guess what he's got the Weekly Show podcast on the side too, right, Yeah, Bill Maher an alleged leftist is and I do say alleged because I think he's you know, one of the most disingenuous, disconnected, you know millionaires who's out of the loop as far as reality goes.

Anyway, Bill Maher, even though he.

Did sit down with the President Trump and have dinner with him, which.

I found strange also, But anyway, that guy right there is on HBO, one of the biggest corporate conglomerate run legacy media things on the planet, but also does what a podcast on the side.

He goes, Oh, I don't care, we smoke bought on here. We're gonna be you know club I can't remember the name, but.

It's Club something.

Random show and he's like mister laid back and does single interviews there, right.

So they're alleping into what was independent.

Space and they are bringing their corporate you know backers with them in a covert way. So this you know, change in the media landscape and also supported by guys like you know, Elon Musk and the other you.

Know elitist top richest people on the planet one way or another. Uh. This this is a big landscape.

Where I think they're gonna pool you into believing again that you have an independent and.

Impartial media, except now it's.

Going to be on demand, custom made and scene as though it's really being legitimately done.

Because this is a guy talking to me from his basement.

Now you know, this is a guy Don Lemon talks to me from his attic studio.

You know what I'm saying. And the less polish is now.

Going to be the truly polished when it comes to the new media and the deception. And I think that's the thing that we need to keep our hands up lot and remind ourselves about whether we're dealing with a witch on a demonization or people trying to literally encourage a civil war like Red.

There are people that want that one way or another. Okay, And we didn't even touch on Charlotte Kirk and.

The recent you know, bloodthirsty comments and all that stuff on all sides, right, we didn't even go there, but I think we could do it the part too. And I apologize I talked a lot more than I wanted to in my sore throat water me too, I trust, trust me, but excited that somebody's actually willing the thinking and examine this stuff and look some of the.

Stuff he said.

Though to me, I was like, God.

That is an outdated look, because you've got to take into account the new stuff. But on the other hand, you have some very solid ideas that I need to integrate.

Into view here.

And you know, you're not necessarily going to create my new opinion.

Nobody does. But we all do actually.

Influence one another if we bothered to listen and to clearly and consistently speak our minds and to articulate what it is that we are witnessing, because in any circumstance, even with eyewitnesses, you can have five eye witnesses, which will give you five different versions of an event that lasts less than five minutes any given day. And the thing is, they're all important because they're all reality to somebody.

And the more we inform.

Ourselves, the more we'll understand the things that went wrong, the things that went right, and the things that just went And I think that's the important part here.

So I'm going to now shut up and ask you to.

Again remind people about the name of your book.

You know, any websites you have the stuff that you have to promote, please and hopefully I'll have some links in the show notes, which I'll put this out as soon as I.

Can as a podcast.

And apologies because we went like twenty minutes over the time I thought I was gonna do with you, and it's because I'm long winded and obnoxious, and I apologize. But things need to be set, things need to be explored, and we need to continue having revelations like conversations. And I mean conversations, not arguments, not pseudo debates, you know, not, Hey prove me wrong and.

I'm gonna fight with you today.

And I don't mean to even.

Make an exclusion to Charlie Kirk. I mean, that's really the attitude of people.

Let's have a debate. I want to prove you wrong.

That's not really the full purpose of debate.

You know.

Let's understand a dictionary. People say, oh, a dictionary is to give you definitions.

No, don't know, be careful. For dictionary is for adiction. It's to tell you how to.

Pronounce the word. It is not for meanings. There are definitions within it so that you can properly know which word you're referencing. That is why it's there.

An phonetic spelling is before.

The definition, okay, And people need to learn exactly what tools they're looking at and how to use them, and not just assume they know because automatically have all that knowledge. No, you need to continue to learn at all times because the world changes, and no matter who you are, how smart you think you are, you've got to always recognize you don't know everything. And I'm not addressing you, denism, addressing everybody.

Listen, get myself.

Even you don't know everything.

You can make an effort all the time.

But let's try to get a handle on it and get back.

To mutual understandings where we can be productive as a group of people.

Because I assure you, the rich.

People, the elite.

People, that people that benefit from us being at.

Each other's throats.

Will be more than happy to keep communication muddled and impossible and so biased that nothing is heard. Because the less we communicate with each other and the less that we can work together and you know, stopped, and the more we can stop turning on each other, the more likely it is we might actually hold people accountable that are doing us damage on a daily basis.

So that's my preacher speech for a minute.

Tell us all.

About where we can, you know, follow up the name of your book.

Is it available on a couple of different websites or do I go to Amazon?

Tell me about it? Oh, and I.

Lose, Dennis, Did I lose? You might look?

I am going to go ahead and it looks like as a leader fifteen points to consider. Okay, he's got a leadership book out there.

I'm going to get more information about the stuff that he does. But I think the g n Keith phrase to.

Recall here is unpacking witch Hunts with Dennis Brennan. And I'm going to put that into a search engine and also contact Dennis and see where he's.

At regarding regarding his work and tell.

Us where we can find it all because the letter in and of itself that he sent me was the inspiration for this conversation, and I think it was necessary based on the spirit, and I think we can continue to have a great, great interaction in order to continue our understanding.

And it's DC Swamp strikes.

Back is the name of the book.

I'm sorry I got that wrong the first time about the book, but DC Swamp strikes Back. Aaron Burr, Donald Trump, let me get the full title here, because I just did a search.

And I wanted to pull it up and be able to promote his book directly if I could.

I'm also going to put it in the live chat room and put it in the reference notes for this podcast kind because it's absolutely necessary for us to.

Get at you know, the bottom line.

There is a grand manipulation occurring. There is a lot of ugliness where you.

Know, we're being manipulated.

Doing things that are counterproductive to ourselves and to one another and to this country over and over again. And I'm getting pretty tired of it. I hope you are too.

DC Swamp strikes Back Aaron Donald Trump and their similar battles victims separated.

By centuries, bound by opponents and hatred.

Okay, And that thing came out in May.

Of this year, and again, the author's name is Dennis A. Brennan, and I was.

Really really happy to have marn regardless of the fact that we lost them toward.

The end here.

And I hope that you guys have gotten something out of this, and I also that we're going to continue this conversation in.

The very very near future.

So with all that in mind, I'm not even gonna bother to give you any other details or whatever about my stuff, where I'm at, what I'm doing, because why.

Botheration through conversation, you are the effect.

The decid is broken.

Through spoken revelation, through conversation.

Through ptopy life.

So show effect revelations conversation, abation, a devastation, revelation through conversation, the effects You are the effects true conversation, amonstration or.

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And yet the.

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And that is not three decades charge the scroll.

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I am the ant of my soul.

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Teach us about religion, keeping score at home.

For a people you'd like to see even by wolves dishropped, dying soon tangles like Jacko tips and has continued golf stormy tour him when you streak, he says.

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Well, listen through conversations, but all.

Praise no straight.

Revelation through conversation.

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I'll tell you affected revelation through conversation.

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Ever done for my indokable soul in the constant circumstance, I have not wist, no cry aloud.

He's a chance my head blade about it. You are the effectually effect.

Convolation through conversation.

Revelation conversation y relation to conversations.

The War State by Michael Swanson explains the great national transformation that took place and put the Kennedy presidency in the context of the times and reveals never before published information about the Cuban missile crisis. President Kennedy would not have been assassinated if he had been president two hundred years ago. His assassination took place in the context of the Cold War and the rise of the national security state. Before World War II, the United States was a continental republic.

Expressed like caller schools.

There anyone else who happens to get on the air who jelly dot com if not necessarily reflected the views of the jelly dot com or Jelly And we are not responsible for any stupidity which might ensue. Thank you.

In Denial The Secret Wars with air strikes and Tanks by Larryhncock. Secret wars became a staple of US covert operations and are still happening today. Larryhancock's book In Denial rips the cover off many of them, using new files. It exposes things about the Bay of Pigs that no one has ever written about before. It shows why it really failed and why the United States did not learn from it. It also shows why other countries today are doing secret operations with more success.

This is the book that puts what some want to deny into the light. In Denial secret wars with air strikes and tanks Larryhancock. For more information, go to Larry hyphen Handcock dot com. Pick up your copy of In Denial at Amazon dot com.

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Revels through com section.

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Right, Well, what do you want to know?

Dye Baker's wild claim? Oswald girlfriend if he knew Ruby and Arry answer weapons? Really?

I imagine I could claim I have four wheels. It doesn't make me a wagon.

But okay, Oswald on the building and I'm trying to prevent the murder of John Kennedy. Come on now, has a real effort on the DAFA assassination. Book into her claims.

Go to Amazon dot com enter Judith Baker in her own words. You'll get the results for a digital copy of a book where Walt Brown utilizes her own words and the known evidence in the case to get at well a different perspective. Let's say you can get Judith Barry Baker in her own words from the author himself signed if you request it by contacting doctor Brown at k I A s JFK at aol dot com. It's a fun book and it actually dissects the many, many fantastic claims Judith very Baker.

In her own words all the.

Great information.

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Revelation through conversation in a radio show slash podcast. You want the good news, listen to the o'helly effect. Check o'ceelly is the most underrated voice in all media, news, education, and entertainment. The daily bread from o'chelly dot com. Go there, save yourself from ignorance ochelly dot com. But we all agreed to put o'elly dot com on and listen to the o'helly effect. Revelation through conversation o'helly dot com, Gee, ochilli dot com.

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Dot com radio, go ahead, the truth.

About the day assassination? Right, Well, what do you want to Judy Baker's wild claim? Oswald girlfriends he knew? Ruby and Arry answer weapons? Really?

I imagine I could claim I have four wheels. It doesn't make me a wagon.

But okay, Oswald was on the building and I'm trying to prevent the murder of John Kennedy. Come on now, has a real effort on the DAFA assaffination claim.

Go to Amazon dot com enter Judith Baker in her own words. You'll get the results for a digital copy of a book where Walt Brown utilizes her own words and the known evidence in the case to get at well a different perspective. Let's say you can get Judith Ary Baker in her own words from the author himself signed if you request it by contacting doctor Brown at k I A s jfk at aol dot com.

It's a fun book and it.

Actually dissects the many, many fantastic claims. Judith very Baker, in.

Her own words, thank you for all the great information.

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