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Venus Symbolism With Symbolic Studies

Jun 20, 20252 hr 13 min
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Transcript

Speaker 1

You see something's going to happen.

Speaker 2

What What's going to happen?

Speaker 3

What a.

Speaker 4

Welcome to the Occult Rejects this episode, you got a bunch of us here together to keep continuing uh this planetary symbolism with Mario from Symbolic Studies. Today we'll be touching on venus and rejects you got with us. Tonight we got Ethan Indigo. What is up, my man? Let everybody know what you do.

Speaker 3

Great to be here. Oh yeah, I'm looking forward to this. I know Mario is going to drop some bombs. I like to write and observe. I have several books out and about and one little article recently done on the occult research into to website people check out.

Speaker 2

Well, so I know this is gonna be great.

Speaker 4

Thank you very much Ethan and his show ups around bottom and definitely check out all that man all the books that man's got. And then and then we got we got it. We got a new reject joining us. And now we got Frider Jin the Ninja. It's a new one. Jen, please say hello and let everybody know what you do is.

Speaker 1

Sure. Thank you boss. I'm mister ninety three, okay, so I'm Jin the Ninja. I have a show called Threshold Saints. You can find me on x Twitter at wi Conory, Born to Be, uk O n g and ig at Threshold Saints, as well as the show account on x Twitter And yeah, I've got lost of episodes coming up. I don't even know which one I'm on, but you're interesting spykild ontology. Yeah, that's my show.

Speaker 5

Thank you, awesome, thank you very much. Freda Jen and GJ TJ. Christ what's going on, sir? What's up?

Speaker 6

What's up? Yeah, I've just been on the Christ Path.

Speaker 7

My father was a carpenter and I've just looped into a ton of carpentry.

Speaker 6

So it's just part of that path. Uh.

Speaker 2

I do at.

Speaker 7

Contemporary Problems Underscore on whichever platform. I had to take about two months off to do this Christ Path carpentry and stuff, and uh I started a band, did a lot of things in the in the real world kind of thing. But I'm excited to get back on the in the digital world and exchange information with others and learn and listen.

Speaker 4

Yeah, awesome, thank you very much. Don't you even do like tile work or something too? Yeah, I mean, oh yeah, it's along those lines.

Speaker 5

Trying to fit in there.

Speaker 6

I think the proper term is called the tile mason.

Speaker 7

Oh yeah, nice, or a stone I'm also a stonecutter.

Speaker 4

I guess I love it all right at his shin and his links will be on the bottom as well.

Speaker 5

And last but not least, the O G Robbie barks what is going on? Man?

Speaker 8

Hey everybody? Yeah, I'm excited to be here too. Mario, You're always bringing the good stuff.

Speaker 5

Man.

Speaker 8

I am a Marx or Robbie Marx. I'm an artist and illustrator as well as a writer. And yeah, if you want to check out my stuff, I also have my metamindcast podcast. You can check out all my stuff at link tree at r M A r X and then'll pull up everything.

Speaker 5

For you listen.

Speaker 4

Thank you very much, sir, and all of his links will be in the bottom as well. And finally, to the man of the hour, hour and a half, we got Mario from Symbolic Studies.

Speaker 5

Thank you very much for jumping on again. Mario, I appreciate it. It is always always a pleasure. So please for them.

Speaker 4

Listeners who may not know who you are. And I've gotten some new ones recently, so maybe they don't. Mario please let everybody know what you deal with.

Speaker 9

Yeah, for sure, So thanks for having me. This is a solid crew as usual. My project is called Symbolic Studies. People can find all my stuff at symbolic studies dot com. And what I like to do is basically put out

content based around the signs during the sign itself. So right now, I just did a presentation on the death of the Pope in Taurus season, which is really interesting and there's a lot to get to with that because the card that corresponds with the pope they even call it the Pope card is the higher Fan, which is ruled by Taurus, right, And so I like to kind of find what's going on in the world in that regard, and sometimes I make presentations about all of that.

Speaker 2

But I like really short form.

Speaker 9

Content too, So if people have not checked out my stuff, they definitely should look at my shorts or follow me on Instagram or whatever.

Speaker 4

If you didn't say anything about your shorts, Mario, I was going to his shorts a fire. I always tell all that I'm jealous of his shorts and like, for real, for people who are interested in Taro and you want a social media account that just Tarot and Noah the bullshit.

Speaker 5

Go follow Mario. His stuff is great.

Speaker 9

Appreciate it, dude. Yeah, that's kind of the backbone of the project, to be honest. It really started with that. Also my artwork and things like that too, But the shorts really is kind of, I think, what I'm most known for.

Speaker 4

Yeah, they're great, but yeah, so we finally got to Venus. So oh, let's hear it, Mariy, what do you got for.

Speaker 2

Sure?

Speaker 9

So I want to do an intro and then I sent you some slides that you can share in just a moment. But you know, it's perfect timing because Taurus is ruled by Venus, and so there's two signs that are ruled by Venus, and there's two planets in the traditional system that kind of have double duty. One would be Venus. It rules Taurus and Libra an earth sign and then an air sign. And then the same thing

goes for Mercury. Right, it rules Gemini, which is an air sign, and then also Virgo, which is an earth sign. So the traditional things with Venus, right, the correspondences. It is associated with copper Friday, very feminine, right, beauty, you know, love.

Speaker 2

Things like that.

Speaker 9

So Venus is a very like there's a sensuality to Venus, and the divine feminine sort of aspect really really goes extremely deep, extraordinarily deep. I did a podcast not too long ago, and I spoke with a woman. Her name is Ola Wolney. If people are interested in her work, I'm pretty sure I've brought her up here before. But she is like a Venus sort of expert, and she really ties in a lot of sort of primordial, dark

feminine sort of information as it connects to Venus. She really thinks that Venus actually is where a lot of symbolism associated with the moon, where that came from. And we have a lot of overlapping sort of ideas. I think that she attributes a lot to Venus and I attribute a lot to the North Star. And so at some point we need to like publish a conversation like just about that, because there's so much going on there.

It's like absolutely insane. Right, But let's just look at the glyph of Venus actually, if you don't mind just pulling up that first slide there and right, it's a circle with a cross on top. To me, when I think about this glyph, I just think about the feminine being in a higher priority sort of position with that circle. Oftentimes the heavens are associated with the circle or the sphere, and oftentimes the earth is associated with the square or the cross or the number four, and so to me,

this kind of matches that sort of dynamic. It's kind of interesting. Actually, there are some groups that will use an inverted Venus glyph to indicate Mars, which is sort of the classic thing, right, mena from Mars, women are from Venus. Actually I say classic, but my understanding is that actually really kind of came around in like I think, like the sixties or seventies or something like that.

Speaker 2

We'll get into it.

Speaker 9

But esoterically, you could say that men are from Mercury, and all you have to do is just add horns on top of the Venus glyph, and then you have Mercury. So perhaps Mercury is the real partner or consort of Venus. Right,

That's something I like to think about. But one of the fascinating things about this glyph, if you want to go to the next slide there, is that it was pointed out in a book that I have that Venus, the glyph of Venus, is the only glyph that actually sort of can be put into the Kabbalistic Tree of Life, and all of the sepharothes basically match sort of the

outline or the line work of the Venus glyph. And so the person that wrote that book, which is where I got this from, was making the case that this is, you know, of course, extremely significant for the glyph of Venus. And what's really interesting about this, in my opinion, is that the hidden Doth dot would be right there in the middle of that circle, right that center in that circle. And so that is the sepharoath that basically connects to the Clipothic tree right or the tree of Death or

the night Side of Eden. And so in my research, that hidden sepharoth, the eleventh one is associated also with the North right. And so I'll just put it out there.

You guys know where I'm at with kind of polar northern symbolism or whatever I'm really inclined to think now, And I wasn't as confident saying this months or even years ago, but literally, the symbolism of all the signs of the zodiac, and I would say planetary symbolism literally comes from the same place, and it's a northern polar sort of dynamic in my opinion, right, And so this has to do with the fact that everything is expressed from a center and then returns back to that center.

Speaker 2

So there is a world axis.

Speaker 9

Northern polar correspondence with all of the planets, with all of the signs, and I would even say by extension, I'm really seeing that that might be the case with all constellations. Basically, it's no different than a ripple in a pond, right, you drop a pebble in a pond. Everything emanates from the center and kind of goes outward. I think that that is what we were dealing with in primordial times, is a lot of symbolism was concentrated

in the northern sky. People had this reverence for it, and then everything kind of expanded outward, and there is this sort of symbolic migration away from the center, right. And so I think that this is sort of an interesting sort of detail here that the hidden sepharroath once again corresponds with the north, which takes you to the other side. Which is interesting too, because when we're dealing with the feminine, you know, we're talking about like vessel

symbolism and the womb and everything else. And you can make the case that the circle up top kind of symbolically carries some of that symbolism. And so there's something very precious sort of within that circle, right, this sepharroath that's very transcendental and is along the lines of that middle pillar. So if you go to the next lide, you'll see that this is just a traditional tree of life sort of set up right the three pillars, the

central pillar being the transcendental pillar. You can see the hidden sepharroath right there. You can imagine just what I just showed you right the venus glyph itself be right there. And so we're talking about the feminine. We're talking about a lot of symbolism that has to do with the number five actually, and so if you go to the next slide, we're dealing with the fifth card of the major ocana, which is ruled by Taurus. And so this

is the hyerpin card or the Pope card. And I just did a presentation about all of this, as I mentioned, and basically the pope is right there in between the two pillars, and so he represents that sort of central axis. And what I said in the presentation too, is I'm really seeing it now that he is. I think all pilgrimage locations basically represent like a vertical axis pretty much connecting Heaven and Earth together, and he is sort of an embodiment of like a living, breathing sort of vertical

axis pretty much. And so of course the pope gets replaced or the pope gets transition out as they pass and everything else, and so this living embodiment of this central axis, right, So I think that makes a lot of sense because what he really represents is he's a bridge. And so that's what Pontiffect's Maximus represents, is he's the ultimate bridge builder, and so he's the bridge between Heaven and Earth essentially, or the bridge even between you know, the people and God, if you want to put it

that way. But he's always been associated with being the keeper of the keys, right, and so even like the official like emblem for the Pope is cross keys, a golden key and a silver key, and this can represent the golden gate and silver gate. There's a whole deep dive weave that we can get into later about all

of that. I also think it's interesting one of the things in the presentation that I broke down was the papal cross, and how the papal cross it almost just reminds me of the lines that break up the four different levels of the trio life, right, the four different worlds of the tree, and then you have that central sort of axis breaking it as well. And so in the presentation it makes way more sense. But he is the keeper of the keys, and he is the guardian

of this gate. So when you have the two pillars, there's an implied doorway or gateway there, and he's throned, and to be throwned is way more feminine, you know, in my opinion. So what I've been saying for a while now is that I have a strong inclination to think that thrown symbolism actually belongs more to the goddess or to the feminine than the masculine, because it's more passive.

And so women are more passive in nature, They're more magnetic, and so opportunities come to them, Suitors come to them, you know, things come to them. They don't have to go anywhere. It's more in man's nature to have to go out and seek and sort of conquest and journey and bring home the bacon. If you will and if you want to, like a really simple sort of metaphor for this is you just look at our sex organs.

You know, the phallus is projective an outward and it's the original wand, if you will, And the wand really is about energy being sent forth. And then even the sperm cells of man they travel and they go into foreign lands to inseminate the egg. On the other hand, the woman is more receptive, and so she receives right, and so the egg stays within her confines in order

for her to get pregnant. And so that's kind of the basic difference traditionally between masculine projective symbolism feminine receptive symbolism. So I see it that when a king or a hirophant, or the emperor or a lord or something is sitting on a throne, he's actually emulating the feminine. And this makes sense here because he actually corresponds with venus. And I even believe now my understanding is that and this idea of sort of guarding a gateway actually belongs more

to the feminine as well. And so this is why you see Lady Justice. It's a woman holding a sword and then holding the scales right, And she too is sitting in between two pillars in the tarot, right, the justice card. And so woman is really sort of she's more of a judge than anything else, more than man at least, because she has to judge and gauge what partners she wants to potentially connect with, or couple with or have children with.

Speaker 5

Right.

Speaker 9

Men have a very different perspective on things, So men can be attracted to many different types of women and everything else.

Speaker 2

But it's really the woman who is the.

Speaker 9

Guardian of her gateway, which is the real gateway into this reality, basically, right. And so there's a lot of symbolism with that, with the true guardian of the gate is actually feminine. And if you want to go to the next slide, it's interesting that some of the earliest Hirofint cards in existence show a female pope actually, right, And so there's even a whole story. I don't know all the details, but I've read about it before, but I believe her name.

Speaker 2

Is Pope Joan, Yeah, right, Do you know what any thing about her? By chance? Any any details?

Speaker 8

Yeah, she came to the throne and there was a lot of problems with her being a female, and then there are some other stories about females that have come and been enthrone that acted as though they were men and then you know, get found out, you know. But yeah, there's it's been a while since, but yeah, I'm familiar with Pope Jones for sure.

Speaker 9

Right right, are you guys aware of the I don't know if it's still in use, but I have seen photos of it. But the chair that supposedly the pope has to sit in, or prospective pope has to sit in, so that all everyone else in the conclave, I guess can inspect his genitalia to make sure that he's actually a male. It almost looks like it's like a wooden chair that has an opening at the bottom, and you know,

people can google it or whatever. But determining the sex of the pope, I don't know if that was more of a thing after Pope Jon or whatever. But it's also interesting that the movie Conclave is in part about this spoiler alert, But so that's a whole entire thing. So the fact that there were these female popes early on in Tarot history, I think is really fascinating for sure, and just speaks to it to me, this venus connection

and even too. What I'll say is that Taurus, my understanding of it is that we're seeing a very sort of masculine solar version of Taurus these days. When most people illustrate Taurus or think of Taurus, they think of a mighty bull, you know, almost ready to charge, or looking very aggressive or angry or something along these lines. And my understanding is that it actually used to be

more of the feminine cow early on. And what's kind of happened is a lot of animals during their respective age, they're looked at in one way during the age itself. So the age of Taurus, the bowl, minunderstanding is that it was more so revered, put on a pedestal, more positive connotations, things like that. And then once the age of Taurus came and went and we were now in the age of Aries, that same bowl is sort of

sacrificial in nature. And so you have mythrist slaying the cosmic bowl as an example, right or there tends to be more like this demonic sort of thing associated with that, and so that aggression or that masculine sort of energy tends to come out a bit more. And so anyway, for what it's worth, I thought I would mention that well.

Speaker 8

Also, I was going to say, as far as different females that have been in throne, if you go back into Babylon, some of the queens of Babylon were far stronger than the kings, and they were more known for building the edifices, the big pyramids. And then you get into Kibbili, you know, and she was a queen that was enthroned that basically rode on a cart pulled by lions, and so.

Speaker 3

Some of the oldest When you.

Speaker 8

Get back into the more Mediterranean, more Asian like cultures, you have a lot more divine, feminine propagators that are over the male propagators.

Speaker 9

Yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly, and it just makes all the sense in the world. So yeah, I mean, even to your point too, a lot of these early queens, and actually a lot of queen symbolism and goddess symbolism a lot of times is closely related to the lion, and that the lion is either pulling their chariot or is embedded into the throne itself or flanks the throne or

something like that. And I just think it's really interesting that Leo is right next to Virgo, and so Virgo the queen of heaven, right, the stellar virgin, And so there's this interesting relationship that I've noticed with that. It's almost kind of like the feminine authority over the masculine. You know, the lion being a solar line related to the sun and things like that, and that's what you

actually see in the Strength guard. You see a woman taming a lion, right, It's almost like mother and child. So that's kind of what I see with the Strength card is you're actually seeing a representation of two signs there, Virgo and then Leo. But yeah, if you want to cruise to the next slide, it's just the Mercury glyph. But just wanted to show you that all you have to do is add horns to the Venus glyph and then you have Mercury.

Speaker 2

Very interesting.

Speaker 9

And then also if you just remove the cross down below, now you actually have the glyph for Taurus itself, right, which is ruled by Venus.

Speaker 2

So even the glyph itself.

Speaker 9

Right, I mean the simple horns you know, on one hand, yeah, you could say, and it is. It's both masculine and feminine. It's both yang and yin you know horn you think of horny, right, again the phallus or an erection or something along these lines. And then you also have it though it's a vessel, right, it's also a crescent moon.

Speaker 2

Yeah, exactly right.

Speaker 9

And there's so much lunar symbolism with Taurus as well. That's interesting. The cow that jumped over the moon I think of as an example, or I think of the fact that people have had this sort of thing saying that the moon is made out of cheese. Where do you get cheese from milk? And so even too with the cow symbolism. The cow has been referred to as like the second mother of mankind in certain parts of the world, like in India, and it's because you get so much from the cow and it asks so little.

So it's really a giver, right, This animal gives and gives and gives, and even just exactly even just milk itself. From milk you get cheese and yogurt and ghee and all.

Speaker 2

These other things.

Speaker 9

But then also you know, the hide itself, if that's how that country rolls or that those people, if that's what they choose to do, and then obviously meat and protein from there, and you know, then it helps on the farm. And then there's uses for the dung and everything else, and so on a physical level, it gives and gives and gives. But this also kind of parallels a spiritual dynamic as well, and that it actually there's like a grace and there's a presence to the cow

and the bowl and everything else. So there's things to learn even outside of just taking you know, from it. But there's a huge, huge weave too with the V. If you want to go to the next slide. Here we're talking about venus, So we're talking about the V. The V is a very powerful letter in so many ways. One of the first things I think about is the fact that the receptive elements their glyph is a downward triangle. So water is just a downward triangle. Earth is a

downward triangle with a line through it. Air is an upward triangle with a line, and then fire is an upward triangle. So the receptive feminine downward triangle. Right, So it even looks like a little vessel.

Speaker 2

Right.

Speaker 9

I even think of the yoni, or I think of the vagina, starts with the V.

Speaker 2

Right. Also, when you look at go ahead.

Speaker 8

I was going to say, as well as aspects of water it's as far as.

Speaker 9

The wines exactly. Yeah, you totally got it. And so even Vagina you have that V right there. But uh, the Taurus constellation. When you look at Taurus again ruled by Venus, you see this gigantic V. That is the most prominent feature of the Taurus constellation. If anyone here is a star gazer, and so you see a gigantic V. And then you see a really large star and that's one of its eyes, which is Aldebaran or al Debaron.

I also think it's interesting too that that specific star has a lot of symbolism associated with like the Vrill society and like the lore associated with the vril. And here we're dealing with the V again, even with Vril, which to me, when I think of Ril, I think of another aspect of ether or spirit, which would be the fifth element, which is also Roman numeral five, which is a V as well. And we're dealing with the fifth card of the major o'conna, so Roman numeral five

right there. So the V weave is super super strong, very feminine in a lot of ways. And if we go to the next slide, we'll see that if you double it up, now you have a W right from V to W and w we have words like water, womb, woman, right, which, and so there's a lot of feminine words.

Speaker 2

That associate with the W. And then if you just.

Speaker 9

Flip that and this is getting really close, uh Robbie with the water right, the zigzag of.

Speaker 2

The water the exactly exactly.

Speaker 9

Yeah, So you flip it like in the next slide, and then now you have an M.

Speaker 2

Yeah. So ma.

Speaker 9

It's like universal amongst babies, you know, it's almost like instinctual, I think. And so mom has two ms mother, matter, matrix. These are like feminine words basically mem water, Yeah, yeah, totally right there.

Speaker 6

I'm pretty sure it's ma in Arabic means water.

Speaker 9

Okay, there you go. It makes perfect sense, man, yeah, exactly.

Speaker 8

There is so many of those.

Speaker 3

Go ahead, Oh, I was just gonna back that all up in so many dozens of different languages. MA is the feminine mother expression term. And and in looking into it, it might be something else, but that it also might be that is the first annunciation that we make that we're capable of and so all, and so it might be that not that that's not amazing in and of itself, but but you're you're right, it's very much reflective in the may Trix, the Ma tricks, from which, as you do, not the creation.

Speaker 2

Yeah, yeah, exactly.

Speaker 9

Well, one of the things that's been pointed out to me is that when you say something that starts with an m hmm, it's internal as well. Right, so there's like a receptive feminine sort of quality with MM as well, versus like dah for dad. Do you know, does anyone here know if DA or Dad die is as? It doesn't feel to me as universal as MA is.

Speaker 3

It is related, I believe, but it's more Pa Pa. Okay, there you go, right, as it's shifted into English, it's a DA, but very similar of course, Papa Pa.

Speaker 2

There you go.

Speaker 9

That makes sense. Well there we I mean that's completely related to even to the Pope and some etymological words that kind of relate to Pope and and father and you.

Speaker 3

Know, the very similar energetically to your idea of the externalizing and the internalizing of those tonations too.

Speaker 8

Well, oh no, not at all. But also when you look at mother Kibbli, who's directly related to Aphrodity, who is essentially Venus. Her consort was Addis and in the mountains, they would call him pa or Papa or papa. So and that goes back ten twelve thousand, you know BC.

Speaker 2

Right, right, yeah, totally.

Speaker 9

So we got here from the V right Venus. And so let's look at the next slide. And to me, this information is so mind blowing. It's still very novel to me, even though I've seen it so many times now. But Venus, over the course of eight years makes a five pointed star from the perspective of Earth, and this is what it looks like right here. And so there's no other planet that has this sort of cycle or

makes this. This is referred to as the Venus rose or the Venus pentagram, right, or the pentacle of Venus, something along those lines. And so again this weave of five Roman numeral five v higher fit five is completely like multi layered and encoded. So I had to bring it up. So you go to the next slide, the next couple, you'll just see variations on the same thing, basically showing you different ways in which you can kind of illustrate this. So it's sometimes referred to as the

kiss of Venus as well. And so the number five and the pentacle really really amazing stuff. I mean, the mathematics and sacred geometry behind it is pretty mind blowing as well. And if you go to the next slide, you can maybe breeze past this one and then just go to there you go the Ace of Pentacles, right. So in the tarot, it's basically a tradition to have the coin to be represented with this star right on the coin itself. And so this really says quite a bit.

In the thought deck, these are called discs, which I think is interesting too because there's almost now when I see it or think about it, this disc it kind of just reminds me of like Earth in some ways personally, you know, maybe from like an ancient cosmological sort of

perspective or something that. But we put this glyph where we put this icon on this coin, and in my opinion, a lot of times when you are looking at a pentacle, you are looking essentially at a reference, almost a direct reference to Venus, right, And so because of this sort of dynamic, and so it's also encoding the five elements. As I mentioned earlier, we obviously as humans have five

main appendages. Five fingers. Oh, pretty interesting as well as it relates to the number five and Venusian sorts of things. The average menstrual cycle is like five days basically, and so even like when we refer to like a period of time, the period like has a reference to this, and also has this kind of subtle reference to like the number five as well. So I think that's kind of like an amazing sort of set of like coincidences or what have you, synchronicities. But the five point it's

stall are, it's the star. It's the quintessential star, right, and so the quintessence too is related to this as well. But it's the quintessential star. It's the star that we all draw as children. And if you look at any work of art for the most part, you know, not all the time, but a lot of times, just the average star in the piece. If there's going to be like a blanket of stars, you know, it's not uncommon

for it to just be a five pointed star. So decoding sort of the sacred geometry behind it, I think makes sense. So if you want to go to the next slide, we'll just see a pretty standard pentacle there, and it's the proportions of where these lines intersect that's really significant.

Speaker 2

So if you go to the next slide, the pent alpha mm hmm.

Speaker 9

So this ratio right here is really really important and relates to the golden ratio. And so if you go to the next slide, there's these calipers that you can buy that will retain and keep the golden ratio. And so it's one point six one eight to one. And so my understanding is even like our bones, you know, they're able to unfurl and kind of curl up into

themselves because of this dynamic right here. And so if you have calipers like that, it kind of encourages you to start measuring all these things and start seeing where this sort of like ratio actually exists. And so because of this ratio, if you want to go to the next slide, you'll see that it's related to the golden

spiral basically. And so from like the left square to the right square the upper right square, that ratio is retained right and so because of that, you can literally have this perpetual spiral that just goes.

Speaker 2

On and on and on and on and on, and that ratio completely stays intact.

Speaker 9

So this golden spiral ratio is act actually embedded into the normal five pointed star that we're all sort of familiar with, and because of that, the five pointed star pentacle has all of these interesting properties too, Like if you go to the next slide, you'll see that you can basically line up these stars right and there's this just perfect tapering sort of dynamic that again goes on and on and on and on and so my opinion, basically when you really start decoding everything, is that the

five pointed star, and by extension, like the number five itself, it is also a bridge. Symbolically, it's a symbolic bridge, which is why it matches so perfectly with the Hierfink card the Pope card, because it's a bridge between the material realm and the spiritual realm, in my opinion, and that's basically sort of what it encodes, and that's why

the fifth element is also related to spirit. I see it that this is all pretty much like it all culminates together and speaks to the symbolism of Venus and the Hyrophin card and the pentacle and everything else. It exists between sort of these two spaces the same way I would even say, perhaps that it exists between our base ten sequence right in the middle right, So it's almost like a symbolic bridge from the earlier numbers to

the later numbers. With that, so a lot of the five cards in the tarot kind of represent like a struggle or some sort of setback in some way. But I see it more so as like actually a threshold something you have to cross through right in order to get sort of sort of to the next place or the next plane or whatever you want to say. And these sort of setbacks and struggles which a lot of the five cards associate with, that's what makes us who

we are. It actually makes us completely stronger. And every single berth or rebirth is like messy. It's not a clean, simple, straightforward thing, in my opinion. And so there's this sort of threshold gateway dynamic that's inherently related to the shape.

Speaker 2

And if you want to go to.

Speaker 3

I just I just thought that the one eight number, of course, represents symbolically exactly what you just said, the creative and the linking of the individual with the spiritual, the one individual, there's nothingness and then there's the infinites And also it's interesting to point out that there's another number that kind of suggests something at least symbolically value in there. If you add the thirty six to the oneh eight you get one four, which is really powerful number.

So excuse me for interrupting, but I thought that you were going yeah.

Speaker 8

Also, I was going to say, when you go back, they used to call it the druten foot, the druid foot, the witch's foot, and then it was all It was the earliest, uh like seal for the city of Jerusalem, as far as they go back in the records. And it was also the magical schedule that Solomon had on his ring that he used to some of the various gin and miscellaneous forces.

Speaker 2

Gotcha, gotcha, yeah, yeah, no, for sure.

Speaker 6

Have you guys ever heard the I've seen him on like on reels of stuff where it's like, I don't know how true it is.

Speaker 7

I don't have a measuring tape this big, but it says that, uh that you can fit one hundred and eight moons in the into in the size of Earth, and you can fit one hundred and eight earths into the size of the sun and all these things.

Speaker 6

So one and one o eight.

Speaker 7

Is the degrees of a pentagram, and it is a number used a lot even in baseball, not to throw cavetballs. But in baseball, home plate is a pentagram, yep. And every baseball, every baseball is made with a hundred and eight stitches.

Speaker 3

Yeah, that is that one hundred and eight. The moon's in between the Earth and the moon, and no, no, it's so it's you know that. And the one hundred and eight suns in between the Earth and the Sun is an approximation, but it because of the nature of the orbit, of course, and it's not so it's not exact, and it is never exact, but it is very close, and it does hint that it's kind of has this scientific creative force to it because you could almost find I forget what they call it, but the the area

around a sun where there is potential life. You could almost deduce it via this one hundred and eight mathematics via any sun I forget what.

Speaker 2

It's called, that this ring Goldilock zone.

Speaker 3

Exactly exactly, so you could almost you could almost use one one way to find the Goldilocks son with stars.

Speaker 2

I love this.

Speaker 1

Sorry, Maria good I just wanted to say that in Buddhism, we use the one hundred and eight beads on our malas, and it also represents the one hundred and eight affliction. So there's one hundred and eight worldly desires. I guess you could say that you have to overcome before you can go higher. I guess, thank gotcha, Yeah I did.

Speaker 2

One is also reminded me too.

Speaker 5

Oh go ahead, Nick, I did want to just ad real quick.

Speaker 4

It was something that you had mentioned with like the pentagram and Venus and all that, something that I think just interested me because I was thinking about the kabbala. The rose kabbalistically is an image for netsuck, which would be Venus, and then there you go, and then the fifth sphere, which would be good borrow of symbol for that can be a five pedal rose, which then is also universally used as a pentagram as well.

Speaker 5

I've seen mm hmmm. So I mean you do kind of see a tie. I think, I mean.

Speaker 8

Well, the mind, Yeah, the mind calendar. You have five ages. You look at the rosicrucion rose, there's five pedals. The Lutheran rose has five pedals. You see this consistent pinta appearing through all these different philosophies.

Speaker 1

Yeah, well, it is also interesting to go off. What Nick said is that that path twenty two on the tree between Goevera and Tiffert that can also be represented in a row. So it's like some people describe it as like the axial joint is from like tiffer It to Netsac, so there's like a path there as well, but that's really where the light from Goeverra sort of

passes through. Now there's other models that will say straight from Geverra to Netsc there's a relationship, and there might be, just there's different obviously different kinds of cosmologies.

Speaker 6

And then G is the twenty second letter.

Speaker 1

That's right.

Speaker 4

Oh nice, Yeah, that is another thing I do want to mention too that you just said, Jenn with the with net Suck and Goodbor, I mean a connection. I would assume that there is, and I do think there is, but take too long probably.

Speaker 5

To get into that.

Speaker 4

But just a simple way, just if you were to look at how you make talismans up, I think, even going back to Agrippa him be suggesting it that if you're making a venus talisman, your flesh and color, the mean color you're gonna use is green and your flashing color is going to be red, which goes back to Gobora and Mars again and Mars, if you make a talisman, it's going to be red and the flesh and color will be green because there is a relationship somewhere in there between those two spheres.

Speaker 1

Right, and remember that for when mind slugs come up, because I didn't take it from you.

Speaker 2

Uh wow, good stuff.

Speaker 9

So I was just reading prepping for the show that the mind calendar, as you mentioned Robbie, has this pentaquality to it, and my understanding is that it directly comes from Venus. Yeah, that's kind of how they gauged everything, apparently, that specific aspect of it.

Speaker 8

And then you start to get into the ideas of the morning and the evening star and the sexuality versus the war. This is probably one of the deeper subject matters in regard to planet when you start looking at the symbolism of the cosmology itself.

Speaker 9

Yeah, no, I completely agree with you for sure. Other thing I was going to mention too, is even with the five pedaled rows, right, like the tudor rose is another example or what it's kind of sometimes called, but that's right in the middle of the rosy cross, right. Sometimes it could be a different like sort of rose or whatever, but oftentimes it's just a five pedaled rose

right in the middle. And to me that's interesting as well, because when you're dealing with the cross, you're dealing with four the four quadrants or for the four lines emanating from the center, and so that center point where the vertical axis and horizontal axis meet, that would be the fifth point right there.

Speaker 8

And you have the rose itself, which is the upper sphere of the heavens, and then you have the like the rosy cross, it's on the cross, which is that lower cross. So it's giving you again the glyph of Venus.

Speaker 9

Yeah, yeah, totally, no, exactly awesome. And then related to green, I just have to bring this up too. So if Taurus is fixed Earth, it's right in the middle of spring, right, And I personally, I don't know if I've ever mentioned

it to you guys. I see like a pretty layered weave between the number four, the Emperor card which corresponds with aries, and the cross being related to the four, and then also Christianity, and then I see with the higher fint being related to the five, and then the pentacle and then Venus as well, and I see that as some in all a lot of ways actually being related to Islam, which I think is kind of random seemingly, but they pray five times a day, there's five of the.

Speaker 8

Yeah, Islam is one hundred percent dedicated to Venus when you when you get into it, it's right, and then the Christians of the Sun, and then the Judaic philosophy is to Saturn. You know, these are distinctions within each of the philosophical you know, directions.

Speaker 9

Because even the glyph and I know Islam traditionally like doesn't have symbols and they're anti sort of like graphic or anti symbolic in some ways visual visual iconography. But if we're going to pick a symbol, right, exactly, if we're going to pick a symbol that represents Islam, it would be the five pointed star inside the crescent moon. Yeah, yeah, for sure, for sure, yeah exactly. So it is and it's green, which is why I was bringing it up. Yeah,

because you brought it up. But what I see actually, oh, go ahead.

Speaker 7

I'll just say it's representing like when Venus and the moon are in the same sign, and so because that's how that can happen when it's in the same sign and it's in the right, crescent happens. I don't, I don't keep track of it, but it does happen almost every year.

Speaker 8

Yeah, And it gets into this you know, esoteric link between Venus and the moon that you constantly see coming up as you go down this the pass of these these subjects.

Speaker 3

And I believe that the Venus is seen as a crescent, right, So it might they might call it a crescent moon, but yes, it might be just Venus.

Speaker 8

And I guess all year round when you view Venus, uh, it's always a crescent moon, just because of the nature of how it sits in the heavens.

Speaker 2

Right right, yeah, exactly.

Speaker 9

So what I was going to say is regarding the sort of third pillar here with Judaism, I'm going in order in the tarot. So the fourth card Emperor ares cross Christianity, fifth card Islam with everything we just discussed, and then the sixth card is the lovers, and so you're dealing with Gemini the twin pillars, just like in front of Solomon's temple, just like in front of a lot of synagogues, you know, and then that's ruled by mercury, right,

And so I see a mercurial sort of thing. There, and because we're dealing with the sixth card, we're also dealing with the six pointed star now, which is the star of David. And so it makes me wonder if there's this mega weave between the fourth, fifth, and sixth card of the major econa and then Christianity, Islam, and then Judaism.

Speaker 7

So, for what it's worth, I have something to add to that on numbers with the five and the six, which I do think that the sixth adds to the venus as well.

Speaker 5

Well.

Speaker 7

For one, you could say May sixth would be the very middle of tourist season, so like if you were to kind of just a fifteen degrees taurus, that's usually around May sixth. And then the fifty sixth prime number is two two hundred and sixty three. Venus stays in the sky, is visible in the sky two hundred and sixty.

Speaker 6

Three days out of the year.

Speaker 7

Oh wow, yeah, so they and that has to the number fifty six in the five to six. I learned that because contemporary problems equals to sixty three. And then I went down a rabbit hole learned all that. So I'm connected to this as well, I guess.

Speaker 2

Nice, Yeah, damn that's a good one, man.

Speaker 6

Yeah, cool, all right.

Speaker 1

If I oh, sorry, no, please, I just want to complicate the sort of cabalistic association with the religions. So for me, Islam has a very Gavautic quality because if you read Sufi mysticism, it's all about the fire of annihilation. That's why they even pray with their hands facing their face, is because it's like they don't want to selve. It's like self, it's like to burn away in the fire

of God. That's the whole idea. But I agree with Robbie that there is definitely a relationship with Venus or nutsc. I have also noticed this and obviously the kabba and there's clearly some feminine essence there and the way that works. And they also go counterclockwise around the kaba. Well right, obviously sugar, I call it shukra, but Venus obviously rotates counterclockwise.

Speaker 10

So so right right, yeah, you know the other thing I'll just say, and I don't know, I mean, it seems like it's pretty obscure, but.

Speaker 2

I have seen some works of art from the Middle.

Speaker 9

East and they're like Islamic origin story sort of like paintings and it's a cow holding earth basically, which I thought was really interesting as well. And then also too, there's like a clear sort of like nomadic influence on Islam as well, and nomads have a different relationship with cattle as well.

Speaker 2

Which I think is kind of interesting.

Speaker 9

And so just all of these things combined, but it's clearly a feminine sort of thing. Even the Kaba cube is like the house of the Mother and they put a veil on it. That's the kiss walk, and so the the and then just the hijab and or the burka and everything else too. It's just like it's very clear that there's this feminine correspondence there.

Speaker 8

Yeah, in the corner you have a physical silver representation of a vagina that has the meteorites that are encased in it that are representative of the mother goddess.

Speaker 1

Well, it is interesting to consider the kabba, as I've said, as a cube of rock, because in Islamic text they definitely prefer the gin so dj I and not Mine, the gin of the Sun, who is depicted as very similar to the mythic god An, who is also in the piranhas as Naram Simha, an avatar of Vishna who is tifferatic. So Robberie was saying, like, get Christianity prefers tifferate Well, I agree with that, but tiffer it's only the six. It's only the superficial quality, the superficial sort

of illumination. Right, it's just the golden vessel. Right, there's an idea in Pico that really Christianity very strongly prefers hesse. Like Mario was saying, excuse me, and it's so Jupiter because it's that four. It's that like the sprinkling of the waters of Jupiter. It's the pacification of governor pacification of Mars. So, but four is really especially in Christian cabala but also in a kind of Jewish cabala as well. Yeah, I said, is is ever expansive? You can just ever

draw from it. It's just it's unlimited, infinite in quality.

Speaker 8

I think there was actually some contrast at a point in time where it did transfer from Jupiter to the Sun. You know, as far as the Christian philosophy.

Speaker 1

Sure, because the four is really the because the suffer of the Messianic religion. So it's like the Savior, like the merciful Savior arises from the mass consciousness at the ocean of Goeverra the ocean. You could also say of suffering. That would be a very Buddhist way to describe it. So like a savior arises and like has to obviously it's different, like he has to climb through the tree. But for them, and I think for a lot of Christians that's sort of where they would say, Jesus arises.

Speaker 9

Robbie just spitballing over here. But you know, what part does heliocentrism have to play in that of the solar worship? You know, and kind of this new correspondence, right.

Speaker 8

It's it's interesting because Jupiter is God the Father when you translate it, and like you slowly see this evolution, and I think it has to do with the Titans being put down and the transition from the Greek into the Roman religion, and you start to get this highly heliocentric model that they're like melding Helios with Mythrus with.

Speaker 3

Who's the other one.

Speaker 8

But if you go to Phrygia, there's these three thrones that are side by side with kings on them, and they're linking all these kings as so you're seeing an amalgamation of the different philosophies coming together and kind of bringing forth this new solar kind of cult, Son Victus, you know totally.

Speaker 3

I wonder how much the this reformation, if you will, that we're talking about has to do with the maintenance or influence of monotheism or enforcement over everything else and what could be the superior the Sun And that's who we're from and you have to worship us now, yeah, And.

Speaker 8

It's trying to move within the Roman philosophy from that mystical pantheism that everything you know, and condensing it down into very much like in Petra, Mohammad's grandfather they said he worshiped three hundred and sixty five idols and then at you know, the point when they got conduced all into Allah, and basically that's when you have the birth of Islam.

Speaker 3

You know.

Speaker 8

It's that you see these reconditioned forms happening over and over and over as gods and goddesses over ride and move and you know, it's very fractal line.

Speaker 3

Which reminds me of the whole celebration of the cow, as you mark remarked, Mario, and now more into the putting this aggressive character on it, and we always do that with the god's prior. They're always demonized, they're the new demons.

Speaker 9

Yeah, exactly, no, no, we'll put for sure nice yeah, if you wanna, if you want to go on over to the next line. Kind of already covered that the fifth element ether spirit. I just think it's interesting too. So the pentagon very much related.

Speaker 2

Right.

Speaker 9

You can see clearly that you can put an inverted pentagram or pentacle in there, and so this is the platonic solid that associates with ether, right, the dodecahedron and so made up of pentagons.

Speaker 4

The pentagon is a symbol for a gabora again, which is a Mars of the red sphere. So again that's more Yeah.

Speaker 8

Yeah, it's like the pentagon in DC. You know, five pentagons within a pentagon, you know, it's it's Mars all the way right there.

Speaker 2

Right for sure.

Speaker 9

So okay, this is the My understanding is that this was this symbol to the entrance to the underworld slash afterlife in ancient Egypt, the duot, and that this was that threshold that you crossed through of all the stars, of all the glyphs, of all sort of the imagery or iconography, it's a five pointed star, right. I mean that to me is like just amazing that that's exactly what it is, given this bridge sort of dynamic that

I've been referring to. And then I know in freemasonry too, the five pointed star is often referred to as like the blazing star, and then there's a whole Luciferian connection with that, it being a venus, being a symbol of Lucifer and kind of this light bringer. There's a whole light bringer aspect here. But my personal opinion is I

think as well though I know for sure. I mean, at least I've read it in some lodge material that the five point at star has indicated as well the pole star, and so obviously with symbolism there's lots of correspondence.

Speaker 4

Yeah, I think that's you know, I think it into it too much, But like this whole like think with the star and stuff in the Polestar. From my experience, I do think in the blazing Star, like even with the audio and stuff those Curlies talked about. Every time I have that experience, it looks like a burning star in the sky at first before it turns into an eclipse.

Speaker 5

It's always a burning.

Speaker 4

Star in the distance that looks like it's just this white dot that's like burning, and then eventually, as it gets bigger, it turns into an eclipse. And then the whole weird thing is that when it starts to separate, it looks like that crescent symbol that's on top of Tot's head.

Speaker 5

Constantly it's like the cheshire.

Speaker 4

Cat like smiling at you right there, this big fucking grin, glowing grin in front of your face, until it finally separates, which then almost starts to look like that other thing that you see on top of the other circle like I do, like even see like the symbolism and going again with like they what made me startle this was, you know venus. Then you know lucifer is is associated no, what is it getting confused with with with net sock? What is a lucifer I think is associated with that,

with that h with that sphere. The sigil of lucifer is very close to the way that light bounces off of your lens in your eye too. You know you're talking about the bringer of light or this and that I mean, I think, uh, you know again talking about the divisions that I'm seeing. I do think something like that as all tight end together.

Speaker 8

And the way light refracts itself, you.

Speaker 4

Know, I mean, I do this, I think like that to sound corny in a way, but I think sometimes I wonder there's the whole idea of lucifer more of like divisions that I fall in love with my eyes that really I shouldn't be falling in love right and doing.

Speaker 8

A five pointed star. I mean, that is the symbol of the upright, man, Yeah, thats the symbol, the symbol of yourself echoing into the symbol of yourself like perpetually, you know, through all your organs and all your receiving devices to determine what reality is itself, you know.

Speaker 2

And there you go.

Speaker 9

Man, that's awesome, I mean. And then the next slide actually really speaks to what saying. But before we get there real quick, I was just gonna mention that the sigil of lucifers well has a V down below. There's a V for venus down below, right, and then also the overall shape of it is like a big V downward triangle sort of thing. Right, So there's all of that, yeh, right, So there you go. The thought version of the Hierpin

card really says quite a bit, right. Even the throne of the Higher Fin here literally is the bull itself. And then you have these sort of nested five pointed stars kind of as you were saying, right, and then you got that white one of the child like on its chest or midsection, and then it's gown too. It's really almost like becoming part of the earth or something like that, right.

Speaker 2

And I think this is interesting.

Speaker 9

Too because Taurus is fixed Earth, and there's a lot of symbolism with the Higher Fin that relates to like retaining tradition, you know, and sort of like a preservation of something, and that's what the pope or a high priest or you know, something along those lines, a figure along those lines kind of represents, is maintaining this tradition or these insights esoteric secrets. That's another thing. This figure is really known for knowing things that other people don't know.

He's again the keeper of the keys, the keeper of esoteric doctrines. And there's even some like more modern maybe actually this is more modern, I mean, as the Crowley deck is relative to like the whole history of the tarot is modern. But there's decks where the two followers underneath the pope. Sometimes you'll see them almost like grabbing a key. Sometimes you'll see one of the figures and he has a knife behind his back, almost like he's

going to kill the pope or something like that. And so they've kind of encoded this whole thing that like he keeps secrets basically, And there's a whole thing with silence as well, I think with the pope, and what corresponds with the higher fint card or excuse me, with Taurus is the neck as well. And a lot of times the higher fin has like almost like a blue

band around his neck or something along these lines. And so there's kind of a whole entire thing regarding language, I think with this figure, and that that might be in part a representation of some of the keys that he holds, is like secrets related to language and rituals

and initiation and sort of things like that. So one of the things, though, I think is fascinating too is the fact that all of those stars are coming out of like the midsection there of that woman who is isis and basically a representation of Venus in my opinion, and she's holding a crescent right in one hand, kind of like the horns of a bull or the moon or the crescent that Venus makes or something along those lines. And then she's whole what looks like a sword. I

actually think he may be encoding a subliminal nail. It's like a nail sword because the Hebrew letter that corresponds with his card is nail. And the way I see the nail, and actually you can go to the next slide because it's zoomed in a little bit above. Yeah, exactly what the nail represents is it binds, right, and

so it's going to bind pieces of wood together. The way I see this, I see this as like a world axis sort of symbol, right, and so just like a straight vertical line, just like Roman numeral one or the letter I or the wand or something like that.

Speaker 2

You know.

Speaker 9

Just to say that, my opinion is there are realms above and below and they're all connected through their center through this vertical axis. And so the vertical axis has been viewed as well as a nail. The nail has encoded this axis that binds different realities together. So in a way, again it's almost not unlike the pillars in the cabbalistic tree binding these different worlds together, kind of like the papal cross as well, that central axis binding

these three levels of reality sort of together. And to me, the kicker with this one is that the an alternative name for the pole star was the nail star. And so when you look in the northern sky, you know, all of the stars, the fixed stars go around this central star, so it's like a point of pivot in the in the heavens, and so the nail star to me, kind of relates to this concept basically.

Speaker 8

Been nailed in place.

Speaker 2

Nailed in place. Yeah, yeah, exactly right, yep, for sure.

Speaker 9

And then even just to break it down on like really simple basic symbolic terms, I see the key as well as basically being a world axis symbol. And so I used to say all the time that poles and holes, you know, so many symbols go back to this dynamic between poles and holes, which relates to like sexual symbolism. Well, keys and locks is the same thing basically, right, and so poles and holes, keys and locks, the nail is

pretty much the same thing. The obelisk, you know, I think of the obelisk in Saint Peter's Square, which came from Egypt as well. When yeah, when you look at Saint Peter's Square from above, I don't have it here, but it makes a gigantic keyhole. It looks like a keyhole, right, And this is where the Pope will be in between his two pillars, addressing his people in front of this gigantic obelisk that's right in the middle of this keyhole that is Saint peter Square.

Speaker 5

Right.

Speaker 3

May I add in geometry terms, that or symbolic geometry, the line is the becoming of the point or as you alluded to, the nail symbology is the line of course and pull start the point. So those relationships are both masculine. And then the pentacle or as you referred to earlier with the taro, which is fascinating and being it being the plane. The plane and the volume are both feminine in geometry, and the volume kind of being the coming of the plane.

Speaker 8

And the cup the volume holding the Yeah, yeah, totally.

Speaker 5

Yeah.

Speaker 2

You know what I used in my presentation.

Speaker 9

I use the z axis as a symbol for this vertical axis for the world axis right, the X axis and y axis, and then the z axis right of verticality basically, I think is kind of another sort of metaphor here. But look this pentacle is these pentacles are coming from between her legs as well. Right, so I mean just Venusian symbolism.

Speaker 3

To be man, right human?

Speaker 2

Yeah exactly.

Speaker 9

So actually, speaking of if you want to go to the next lide, you know, when it comes to the womb or Uterus and the Filippian tubes, this whole system most people associated either with Aries and or Taurus, right, and you could see why very easily. You can see why Aries, and I think you can really see why with Taurus. And if you go to the next slide, actually, this is actually an X ray with liquid uh you know, whatever plunged up in there to get this X ray.

And look at how much that really truly makes the silhouette of a bowl. I mean, it's like a dead ringer in my opinion. And then I've got another one too that you can see, yeah, right, And so if you go to the next slide, so this is just the righter weight version of the higher fin noticed the sort of uterus looking you know, illustrations or reliefs in those pillars there, Yeah right, So again the feminine quality. Really, it's all there if you want to yeah, yeah, yeah,

exactly for sure. And then just to kind of emphasize the power of cow and bowl symbolism, this is literally when you really start reading Secret Teachings of All Ages by Manly P. Hall, I think they show like an image of him or someone else in the beginning, and then once you really start reading, like chapter one, you see this print here, you see this plate and it's called a Group of World Religions, and it shows you one, two, three, four, five, six at least six instances of the bowl or cow

in sort of the origin story of like different world religions. So you have Taurus and the upper left, it's the beginning of sort of that arch right, and then you have the rest of the zodiac, and then you just work your way down and then there's several examples, and then in the bottom right you have mythrisk slaying that cosmic bowl. So he begins his like masterpiece work by talking about this, which I think obviously you know says quite a bit, so definitely worth looking at if you've

never seen it. And then here you know, just the idea of like a heavenly bowl is something that's been echoed like several times, you know, across cultures.

Speaker 2

Right, and here you have this.

Speaker 9

Blue bowl stars along its belly, and to me, this particular illustration right, which is like clearly Egyptian. I think it's fascinating because of what I said earlier about the earth being related to the cross or the square, and so if you're treating the bowl kind of like the firmament basically, and these people are underneath, they're in between the four legs, it's almost like the four pillars of Earth or whatever, the four corners of Earth or something along those lines.

Speaker 5

Right.

Speaker 8

In Egypt, they had the APIs Bull, which was basically a body for the soul of Osiris to reside in before it was reborn, and there was all these qualifying factors of it was a black bull with a white cube, and like you know, there was all this mythology that breathed on your children they would be successful. But it was basically a sign to be slaughtered at a certain date and but but but it was also to carry the divinity during a certain time on the earth itself.

Speaker 3

You know, I believe that the bull in Egyptian terms was corresponded with nutt who as you just said, Robbie carried Rah across across the sky.

Speaker 9

Mm hmm, yeah, you could even see like I don't know if that's exactly what it's alluding to, but those two boats underneath the belly, right, yeah, you know, and then even the the crescent moon, Like there's so much arc ship boats and associated with like the moon in lunar symbolism, right, which is echoed in horns. So what I didn't say earlier when I showed the five pointed

star of the Duot. I have a book called the Isis Thesis by this woman named Judy K. King, and basically what she puts forward is according to her hieroglyphic translations, she says that at least in one point in time, amongst a certain sect of Egyptians, that their understanding was that their soul a sense to the northern sky upon death, and they believe that they exited the horn of a great bull basically upon death in the northern sky.

Speaker 2

Right.

Speaker 9

That's really interesting as well, because if you look at like the Dendari zodiac, there's the thigh of the bull in the northern sky, which is basically major and so that's so there's northern bull stuff for sure, like that's what kind of almost can be a separate conversation or whatever.

But the other thing that's really interesting about that is that we know, regardless of sort of your cosmology or what kind of earth you think we live on, I'm very convinced that there is a toroidal field around Earth, right, and that this is the magnetosphere, and that there's an opening at the north right, and this is why we have the northern lights pretty much, and this opening is what they're referring to. And to me, it's like no coincidence that we refer to it as a Taurus field.

Of all the things, right, of all the labels, we refer to it as a Taurus field. So to me, when they're referring to the horn of a great bolt, they're talking about the torust field.

Speaker 3

In my opinion, yeah, I'm down with that.

Speaker 7

I always when it gets oh it is the Earth round or flat, I always say we're on a turtle and I get really into the turtle lore. But the tortoise is the Taurus. Yes, and sometimes the tortoise is connected to cancer, but at the same time it's also can be connected to the bowl a lot. But then the moon connects with that as well, because the moon also exalts in Taurists. So there's lots going on there. But yeah, I'm with you on.

Speaker 5

That for sure.

Speaker 2

Definitely, hell yeah, right on, Yeah, no, it makes a lot of sense to.

Speaker 8

Me, just kind of a wing nut thing in the whole mix of things. There's this conspiratorial idea that the swastika was a fire sign being related to the bull, whereas the peace son.

Speaker 1

Was a water sign.

Speaker 8

And there's kind of this whole thing that Aleister Crowley gave this to Winston Churchill, and I who's to say if it's even true, but it's just interesting, like wing nut theology that's out there, you.

Speaker 9

Know, totally, totally. Yeah. So if you go to the next lide, you're just going to see a simple depiction, a graphic depiction, not a real photo or anything, of Taurus. And so you really see that v that I was talking about earlier, right, and then it's worth talking about too.

But within Taurus there's the Pleiades basically, and so it's the seven Sisters and and you know my opinion, essentially, I think you guys, you guys aren't going to be surprised with this one, but I maybe already mentioned it here at some point I probably did. But the idea that the original seven stars of Enlightenment belonged to Ursa Major in the north. People's idea of a stairway to heaven existed in the northern sky, and this was during

primordial polar times pretty much. And so there's this concentration of symbolism in the northern sky, and at some point these symbols and the storylines and the mythology I think got exported largely to the path of the Sun when people became more solar, right and when people really latched onto helio centrism and considered the Sun to be the

new center in the heavens basically. And so what happened was my understanding based on the authors that I like to read and everything else, and there's actually more people who've written about this than I previously imagined, but that the symbolism shifted to the Pleades, and that the seven stars of Versu Major a lot of its symbolism shifted to the Plades, and this basically from the Pliades or Taurus to Scorpio basically became the new axis to the afterlife,

and when you look at how people talk about the pleades, I mean, it makes all the sense in the world that there's actually like an earlier sort of storyline. You know, my ancestors come from the pledes, We assent to the pledes. I think this is kind of a modern sort of I wouldn't say distortion. It is and it isn't, but

it's definitely an echo of something that existed previously. And because people became more solar, they paid more attention to the path of the sun, they paid more attention to the ecliptic, so they had to find a new axis. So I think that maybe symbolically it's like people were more vertically inclined, were more vertically oriented rather and had a connection with the divine in the above and below, and then things became more horizontal, and this maybe was

the actual real pull shift from polar to solar. Because to me, to think of this axis from Taurus to Scorpio, there's a lot of interesting things going on there, but it's not very it's not as holistic in my opinion, it doesn't really to me feel like the true center of things. I think in people sort of perception, it has become that over time. But I see that the northern sky has more of a true, unifying, holistic, eternal sort of quality to it, just in general.

Speaker 8

And so I have seen in a couple places that the symbol of the plates is substitution for the pole star. Yeah, yeah, you know as far as the seven and the seven.

Speaker 9

Here's even another wrinkle to all of this. And I did a whole presentation called the Pleadians, the Pleadians if people want to watch it, And basically, Alice is the father of the seven Sisters of the Right. And when they used to show Alice, he was holding the firmament way back in the day. Nowadays he's holding a world,

he's holding a globe. Beforehand he was holding like the vault of heaven or the ceiling of heaven, basically, right and so, and you know they would show him in a northern sort of looking location and like a central location. So to me, the Seven Daughters is a reference to ursa major. If you look into the mythology of the seven Sisters, there's actually a missing sister, and they actually have a myth about the missing sister.

Speaker 2

I could be mistaken.

Speaker 9

I think her name is Elektra and that she's the missing sister, because when you really look at the Pleiades, there's actually only six main stars, and so they had to come up with mythology that sort of reconciled the difference between the seven stars of Ursa Major and then the six stars of the Pleiades, and they both look very similar to right, Ursa Major looks like a dipper vessel, and then the Pleiades kind of looks like a vessel

too as well. So for that reason and more, I I think it made sense to create this new axis. And another thing with all of that is that when you're looking towards Taurus, you're not only looking at the Pleiades.

Speaker 2

You're looking towards Aldeboron.

Speaker 9

You're looking at al Debaron, which is the eye of the Bowl, which is one of the royal stars of astrology. And then you're also looking at the galactic anti center. When you're looking towards Scorpio, you're looking towards the galactic center, which I even feel like I need to I don't

know if I need to qualify that. I don't know if that's necessarily the true center of things basically, but it's what's been said is the real center right towards Scorpio and terras in between like Taurus, excuse me, in between Scorpio and Sagittarius.

Speaker 2

And also a Fucus is right there as well.

Speaker 9

And so people in today's world have basically latched on the heaven heavenly gate symbolism with Scorpio and the Hellish gate symbolism with Taurus. So the cross keys of the higher fin the golden gate would be, yeah, the golden gate would be Scorpio, and then the silver gate would be Taurus, if I'm not mistaken, the gateway to heaven and the gateway to Hell. So just an interesting thing

to consider with this polar to solar shift. But if you want to cruise to the next slide, actually so you can see the pleiad's right there kind of in the shoulder right there, right, and you only see it's that cluster of stars. How many stars are they showing

right there? They're showing six, not seven. But if you go to the next slide too, you'll see sort of this new axis right, so generally from Taurus al de Baron towards Scorpio, which I don't think you can actually see here really, and then if you go to the next slide, this is where I have the information from my recent presentation, the Turus scorpio axis right, Taurus, Silvergate, Galactic Anta center, Hell, the Heaven excuse me, the royal

star being Oldeboron, then the Golden Gate, Galactic Center, Heaven, and Tara's Yeah. So I think, actually this is kind of veering away a little bit from Venus stuff. But when you look at the death card, if you want to go to the next slide, I think this is actually what it's really referring to. It's referring to this new solar axis that people have aligned themselves with. Because you have literally the higher fint pope right there on the right hand side, very much indicative of Taurus. He's

literally underneath two towers. He's always in between two pillars, right, and so they're aligning him with that central pillar or that sort of gateway the keeper of the keys. But I think in this artwork, what you're kind of seeing is that the true keeper of the keys is death

himself or death death themselves. And by holding that poll, what I kind of see is that, well, not only is there a flat with this rose that we've been referring to, this five pointed rose that's inverted for the most part, the largest sort of silhouette of it is pointing downwards, right, So we're dealing with this gateway sort of dynamic. But he's holding a pole, a world axis symbol. One legged symbolism is world axis symbolism in my opinion, which is why you see the thigh of the bowl

in the northern sky in the then Dera zodiac. And what I kind of see is that this pole almost subliminally continues the line downward, like through the leg of the death figure and then also through the leg of that horse right there. So from the very top of the canvas to the very bottom of the canvas there's almost this implied unbroken line that's basically saying that death is in charge here, this is his card basically, and that the pope is kind of like subordinate to the

cycles and rhythms of death and everything else. So I think that this is really speaking to the scorpionic taurus sort of axis scorpio being related to death and rebirth and sex and everything else. And then everything Tourus relates to which we've been talking about, Well, you.

Speaker 7

Can even add or to help validate that it further is like with Libra ruled by Venus, it's there to be the gatekeeper to the underworld.

Speaker 2

Yes, the like I.

Speaker 7

Sometimes refer to it as like the customs agent, where it's like where you're going, you're going to the underworld, where you're going, do you have your stuff? Like are you going to the right place? Like making sure everyone when they do go there, that they are going to the right place that they are like yeah, set up for that.

Speaker 2

Yeah totally man, Yeah, yeah, you got it. So yeah.

Speaker 9

So I've never seen this so clearly in my opinion that it's a reference to the Taurus Scorpio polarity axis business.

But to me, it seems pretty clear that this is definitely like the case, and that's what most people if you're going to start looking into things, I would say that most people who are like into astrology, this is probably the axis that they would point to if there was such a thing as like a Sti way or a ladder to Heaven or something along these lines, right, And even just how people treat these two constellations, and especially the pleats, how people treat that asterism like it

implies all of this stuff in my opinion, but the last two slides are just plugs and then I'm all, I'm all wrapped up here. Of course we can continue chatting and everything else, but I just did just the other way.

Speaker 4

I wanted to look at some of the first second, don't the way something on that horse was just reminding me of thought?

Speaker 5

Was okay with the legs and ship?

Speaker 2

Yeah, no, you're all good man.

Speaker 8

Oh well, I did want to bring up in regard to Venus and and the whole death ruling overall, when you get into the mythology the rolling of the Golden Apple and then they picked Venus or Persephone as the most beautiful and then they marry her a vulcan basically so he can create the weapons for the gods in regard to the reigning down of terror and death. So there's maybe something there as well.

Speaker 2

Oh totally.

Speaker 9

One of my favorite death cards shows a nude woman as death basically, and she's holding a scythe. And there's another death card that I have where it's a pregnant woman holding a scythe as well, so I think it's it's very interesting. Was Vulcan known for being like not attractive, he.

Speaker 8

Was ready complexed. He was so ugly, all the goddesses ran away from him. And basically the deal was made that he would marry or Sephanie or Venus in exchange for he was a titan basically that had been locked away in the underworld, and they brought him back, that resurrected him up and gave him, you know, the most beautiful Venus for the sake of him, you know, giving the gods the various thunderbolt, the vajna and some of the other various various accouterments.

Speaker 9

Gotcha, gotcha? Okay? Right on, Well that's what I got. Like I said, the last two slides are just quick plugs. I did a show on just an audio only podcast on Taurus recently, and by the time this comes out, you know, it'll be freely available to everyone. But that woman that I was referring to earlier, Ola Wolney, she

submitted a voicemail. It's really awesome. She's super interesting. She really thinks that Venus contains a lot of the secrets for like female alchemy and all sorts of other stuff, which I don't disagree.

Speaker 5

With that completely, right, right, and so, and.

Speaker 9

Then I did this presentation called Death and Taurus relating to pope symbolism in the Vatican and kind of getting into a lot of the stuff that I mentioned with the Abbe and the Keeper of the Keys and you.

Speaker 2

Know some other stuff. If people are interested, Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 7

I will say on a lot of my enlightenment journeys, there's some that I've like kind of calculated through just like using taking all this knowledge, whether like the astrology wheel, like I use the alphabet, all these things to like get to like understand this journey and like the loops

and everything. And at one of the craziest ends of one of it, and it was these thru like just decoding the alphabet and being like, Okay, well now I need to go live this out so that if I am to teach about the alphabet, I've at least like like I've gone through this or whatever. And when I got to the end of it, that's all I could think is that like whatever.

Speaker 6

I met, whatever energy I came to.

Speaker 7

When I was like at the end of the Death, I could see like how complex, like just got to the end of my lesson, I felt like, hey, I just met Venus and it was keecked to the letter Z and everything and like and that wlod kind of thing and Z sorry Canadian, the Canadian came out there. But uh, in that, I think Venus has a lot to do with the phoenix. Those two words seem to seem to sound a lot alike as well. And in

that too, it's like birds are very vocal. They're the singers of like this realm pretty much right, So that has to do again with like the taurus and the cerebellum and ruling like this part of that and they that you could even say that with libra because libra is an AirSign communicator. A libra is like the like one of the masters of understanding the social constructs.

Speaker 6

And like that whole kind of thing.

Speaker 7

So uh, I don't like to have tons on that, but like it has to do with like, yeah, the A to Z and the alphabet, like it's phoenix arizona, phoenix a Z. It's all hidden in it that it has to do with it all. And that's what I would have like liked to have brought more on. But nonetheless, at the end I met at the end of my journeys a lot of times I'm pretty sure it was Venus that I met or something.

Speaker 9

Oh dude, that's awesome. I'm so glad you brought that up. For a few different reasons. One, Alif the first letter in Hebrew is ox, right, and so we're dealing with the bull the cow. This is a castrated bull, and so there's a Venusian connection there.

Speaker 2

The other thing is that.

Speaker 9

The first and last cards of the major arcana encode bowl symbolism, because one the fool relates to aliph, the first card of the major arcana, and then the last card of the major arcana is Tao is related to Tao. The world card is related to Tao, which means cross, but Tao is in like Taurus, right, and so all crosses kind of symbolically relate to the Tao cross the

anc is related and things like that. And then also that kind of just reminds me too of I can't remember how the mathematics work out, I'm sure, or maybe somebody here knows.

Speaker 2

I don't know.

Speaker 9

But pie, the way we use pie is actually like it could be shortened if we used tao instead of pie. And so there's even some people that promote the use of Tao over pie because you have to do an extra step when you're using pie mathematically, but Tao in and of itself, you don't have to do that extra step, and so don't ask me too much more beyond that, But I just think it's interesting that it's related to.

Speaker 7

The shortest fraction you can get to form something close to pie is twenty two divided by seven gets point three one four. So we have that twenty two again, which was v and everything.

Speaker 2

Right, Yeah, yeah, totally interesting.

Speaker 9

So anyways, this beginning and end, I even think of the literally the trust field as well, you know of just just kind of this cyclical sort of thing. And then you know, yeah, so what you said there, I totally can see where you're coming from and why you would think that or see that or shore that.

Speaker 4

One thing I did want to mention, you know, you talk about the phoenix and the you know, and thinking of Venus and Netsak, where Venus would be on the cabalistic ttory of life.

Speaker 5

The rainbow doesn't emanate from that over.

Speaker 4

To Hode, So I mean I could see like how you maybe like the phoenix, you know, how it has the rainbow close.

Speaker 5

I could I could see that.

Speaker 4

I've even questioned if the rising phoenix because it's rising from the ashes. This is how I look at It's basically the right pillar. How he was explaining male and female ones, receptive ones, projective. You have light that's getting sucked to a magnet. I've offend wondered if the rising phoenix is like the light coming from the left side going back to where it's going, you know, the dark, the blackness, the ashes light. Yeah, like yeah, it's kind of like kind of taking a U turn.

Speaker 3

I now will never look at M and W the same with the dual triangles. And I was going to add, I think that it's uh you could. I'm always looking at where they're two. There's four, right, and with the masculine and the feminine there is With with the masculine you have projective as as you pointed out, and also reflective, and with the feminine you have receptive and creative too.

Speaker 2

Right.

Speaker 3

They're they're like the matrix, like the ma that we and we celebrate. So just just an interesting and that kind of dual out dual triangles kind of correlates with.

Speaker 5

That as well.

Speaker 4

If you think about that's exactly how pictures have made or like at least now with the computers, you sucking light onto a magnum. Yeah, it's basically going from the right pillar to the left projective.

Speaker 8

One thing, one thing I was going to bring up. Are you familiar with the second Venus as the Greeks called her as far as Psyche. Yeah, so Venus her child Cupid basically got together with this earthly woman, Psyche, and they took her up on top of the mountain and put her up on top of the blackstone, basically in the wind, and she ended up having this kind of night journey. But there was an argument amongst the gods,

and nonetheless they said it. They ended up saying it was okay for Cupid to be with a mortal and then as a result of that, their child that was born was pleasure is, which is where we get pleasure on earth.

Speaker 2

So uh oh good, I.

Speaker 8

Was gonna say, But Venus, she was super upset that people were calling Psyche the second Venus. You know, that was her main beef, her being you know, the most beautiful of the goddesses.

Speaker 9

So one of the things I was gonna add, Tija, I love that you brought up Libra being like the entrance to the underworld right and being ruled by venus. My kind of my opinion is that similar to mercury hermes going to the underworld or different sort of spheres of reality or whatever, I see it, that sexual symbolism when a man is having sex with a woman, he's

going to the underworld. Basically that's part of the deep symbolism behind it, you know, in my opinion, right, And so even there's that dynamic as well, that the underworld symbolically can have this sort of feminine correspondence, and so even to the orgasm being referred to as like the little death or whatever, right, And so I think that there's like a lot to be said there. And then of course when you ejaculate, it's a similar sort of thing.

It's just like energy going up the pole basically, you know, going up to the underworld or what have you. So I think that that's kind of related. And then the other thing I was going to say too, regarding the Tau connection with the last card of the major arcana the world or Universe card in the crole version of the Universe guard he most cards most decks do to pick like the tetromorphs, the four living creatures, right, the cardinal or excuse me the fixed signs, including Taurus the

bull and in his deck. It's really interesting because they all are in the corners right, and then you have the bowl I think in the lower left or lower right corner, I can't remember. But the bulls eyes are the only eyes that are swirling. All of the other eyes for all the other creatures are just kind of normal for what they're supposed to look like, but the bulls eyes are actually swirling. And so there's even a whole deep dive bull's eye connection with Aldeboron being the

eye of the bull, the eye of Buddha. It was once known as I think it used to be called the follower as well, and there's all sorts of things going on there. And then literally like target, like to have a target tour get it's a reference to the bull, right tor. And then even centaur is a reference to the bull as well, in that centaur basically means bull killer, and so arguably you can say that the centaur in astrology is aiming at the bowl. I think there's actually

a few interpretations, but that's one of the interpretations. And this kind of makes sense as well because Sagittarius is right next to scorpio. So when the scorpion is rising, the bull is falling as well. So even like in the mythraic mysteries with the tarroctny, you have the little scorpion pinching the testicles of the bull, right, and so similarly, when the centaur is rising, the bull is also falling.

And so to me this all comes into play funny enough with target, like the store target, and so you have target target get.

Speaker 2

The eye of the bull.

Speaker 9

The symbol is a bull's eye, it's a circumpunct. It's red. Al de Baron is also referred to as like a red planet or a red star. Basically, there's a lot of symbolism with Al Debaron related to Mars and things like that, right, and so their branding is red. They have a bull's eye logo, and then their mascot is a bull terrier of all dogs, of all breeds. It's

a bull terrier. And then they put literally a bull's eye over the eye of one of its eyes, right to kind of whatever, just flesh out all of this stuff. So I did a video about it years ago, but it's kind of amazing that the target symbolism really it's related to Taurus and the bulls eye and all the things I just mentioned.

Speaker 3

That's fascinating. Your whole presentation was fantastic. And I read that it was the bullseye expression was from hunters engaging their prey in that manner that they got the target right in the head or I but I think it makes much more sense your idea that it's more stellar. So that's awesome point on a great presentation, man.

Speaker 9

Right on, Thanks dude, appreciate it.

Speaker 7

Last one last beautiful thing to say about Venus. Venus, when we enter tourist season, that's when we first get our first blooms and blossoms that happen. And when it starts, the grass starts to get greener, we start seeing flowers, we start seeing all that. It's it's a very very

beautiful time of the year. Also in Libra season, that's when the leaves start to turn from green to gold and so on so forth, a very beautiful season, just reminding us how much Venus is here to teach us to appreciate the beauty, especially the beauty in the birth and the death as well.

Speaker 9

So definitely definitely right on.

Speaker 5

All right, Genny, ready, Uh, that's sure. I am already watch which one of these? Which one of these?

Speaker 3

Down?

Speaker 1

They're not in order, so we'll just I'll just all try and under ten minutes and to it. Mario kind of dead. Okay, So this is I thought it would take you. Since Mario's here and I don't often get the opportunity, thank you, I'll take the opportunity to like do some symbolic studies with Mario. So they obviously do a tontrac chronic mixture version with the little Vita Ca astrology thrown in, which I'm sure Maria's familiar with most of it. Stuff, No big deal, and I'll try and

be concise. So the I think the one thing to think about is we go through all the pictures, is like the Venus or the goddess, we could say she has many expressions in Tantra. She can be expressed in every sephra, she can be expressed in every planet, and there are different densities or different personalities. Maybe you could say she even has at and so the deeper you get,

her expression outwardly also changes, so that's really important. And then Tantra also preferences two numbers really, which is well three numbers, will say three numbers, So it's seven, ten and ten, which is obviously two numbers because it's one in zero e ceph for our negative space via negativa. So that even goes along with something that Mario is saying right at the beginning with Va. It's like there's a negative quality to it. And I'm not saying negative

isn't bad, just a negative polarity, you could say. And so she Lakshmi is the sort of superficial density of the goddess. You could say, it's her as a frivolous maiden. And interestingly enough, she was originally married to Shiva in the earliest praanas, but then this got changed so she would be married to Vishnu, who is the greatest hero of the Mahavira, so he's the worldly hero, so he's the one who dies, reincarnates, comes into the world, and this is conducted by Venus. So it goes along with

what both Rabi and Mario were really saying. It's like there is an element of life and death, and I will get back to that, but this is actually even though I'm saying it's the normative Hindu goddess and it is, this is actually a tontric image. Why is this the tontric imistint Because she's riding of Hahna. Her vehicle is named Ulu, who is the owl. This is only found in contric images of Lakshmi. So if you ever see this in the wild, you will know instantly, okay, that

person is actually signaling to something else. Because you don't see this very often. It's very hard to find. And so because she's really fixed, so Mario brought up that really interesting point about being enthroned, So she's fixed in place, and usually in the non tontric images, she's actually looking down at her own reflection in the water, and she's transfixed by her reflection in the water. And so she's

also non generative. So I thought that was another really interesting point, talking about polarities and receptivity and you know the polarity the different forces. So she's non generative. So she the only thing that she expends her power on is worldly things gems, gemstones, gold, silver, all that she grants wealth, but she's fickle. She's a maiden, so she doesn't grant wealth infinitely. She grants it in portion, which obviously also relates to the idea of net SoC because

it grants fortune and life force in portion. So I think that's kind of an interesting idea. Okay, sorry, Nick, we can go to the next one.

Speaker 4

Have you ever, I'm assuming you understand a little bit of a new meat from the Book of the Look right, a little bit. I would like just this image. It makes me think a lot about her, the gems and the jewels and the sense and this and that she's supposed to have. Yeah, even though it's totally differently, you know, a pantheon and everything, it just made make me think about that.

Speaker 1

Well, there's a I think everyone on the panel agrees that there is a relationship. Maybe not one to one, but there's a relationship with all the pantheons. I think I think everybody would say yes to that. I mean, maybe not, but.

Speaker 5

Nice.

Speaker 1

So we're gonna go to the buffalo symbolism right away. So I know, you're seeing a lion and you're asking buffalo symbolism. Well, the demon that you're seeing, he actually is a buffalo. That's what his name is, ahish ma Asura, the buffalo demon. Literally, so this is Venus as Tondica or the fortress. Obviously that corresponds kind of one to

one with nets A, at least in one understanding. So she rides into battle, so she's bringing to that goverratic quality Venus bring coming into the fortress, sort of racing into the battlefield to slay the demon. So there's something else so interesting about this is that alder Baran, the star that Mario and Robbie discussed in Tontra, that is a goddess called Rohini and she is the red bull goddess. So she's actually married to the moon. So that's kind

of interesting as well. Okay, we can go the oh. So I just want to say this is this is she is the highest expression of Venus. You could say inenormative religion. So if you're just like a Hindu and you want to pray to the highest God of the highest God, because there is a hierarchy and there just as I said, there are different expressions of the goddess. Not all of them are equal, and it's really important to understand like why and where they are in the hierarchy.

So she is definitely the zero if we're going to talk numbers, because she's not really contained in her own her will is not really contained within her She's a composite of all the deities, all the demons, all the she is Mohammaiah. Basically, she's just the like Nick was you and saying, like the it's luciferic expression of light, like just that explosive force. So okay, we can go right.

Speaker 9

Actually, I would love to add something real quick if you're on my mind. Very interesting stuff, dude. I love it when you present images and talk about them and everything I've read before. I think it's fascinating that you

brought up the buffalo connection here. And I've looked into this figure lightly remember a while back, but I've read in some of my resources that there is a traditional sort of adversarial dynamic between the line and the bowl or buffalo, and that the line represents like this heat and this fire and dryness, and the buffalo and cower bowl can represent like a moist sort of quality, and that they've been used as like animals, to be sort

of symbolically like contrasted and things like that. So just the fact that that's kind of echoed here, I think is interesting. And then just to kind of piggyback off of Nick's point with Knutt or Nui, I see it that if you look at the circumpunct as an example, Nui would be the circle itself, and then had it

would be like the point itself in the middle. Right, kind of piggybacking too off of what Jinja said regarding everything she represents and all of that, the totality of all the things, so you know, in some ways you can look at it that the masculine exists sort of within her or what have you.

Speaker 1

Anyways, that definitely the no Mario. That was great because it definitely explains like a lot of what she is and who she is, and so we can go the next one's screening. So this is actually a tontric goddess, so I said it the first image. That's not a tontric goddess, but I use a tonic image. So this is the highest expression of the wealth goddess, so Lockshmi. But she gets an upgrade, so she gets to be

called Kamalatmika. And if you hear a similarity with someone's name, that is because there's a direct one to one relationship. So Kamala Mika is the golden goddess. So this is also really interesting. And you can see she's sitting on a five pedal lotus in this image in particular. But tonic images tend to be a little idiosyncratic depending on region or artist or different things, but it should relate

to the text. So this actually does relate to one of the Kamala Meka tontras where she sits on a five. That's very interesting and I'm going to actually get back to that also. But when she is expressive in the world, as you see, she's looking straight ahead. She's not looking above orblow, she's looking just straight because her power is to grant infinite boons, so boons that do not affect

your karma. This is obviously from a contract perspective, so you can interpret it how you want, but she does not implicate karma. In fact, the she can grant liberation, but the goddess, when she's at her lower form at lauchmet, she actually uses your karma to grant boons from your future lives. So you're implicating your wealth karma or your love karma or anything when you even just pray, just regular normative prayers, So she doesn't. So that's another interesting

kind of idea. When you're getting like a little higher in tontric thinking, like what they can do and who they are, and you can see her Vahana is the elephant. Well, the elephant's really interesting because you guys brought up the son or like the goddess has a son in Cupid, Well you could say that the elephants usually there are four to represent the four quadrants or the four crossroads.

This is actually how it's even described. And her son Ganesh, although it's not necessarily this goddess's son, although they are all one in some ways. Yeah, you could you can also say that, so her son is Ganesha. Obviously they call him, we call him Ghanapatin Buddhsm. But so Ganessha who has an elephant's head. So he's the lord of obstacles. I know he gets assigned to other things like lord of wealth and all that stuff, but really he's just

the lord of obstacles. That's like his really his primary function. So you can see, like how important. So she even lifts even though he's a higher god, like he is considered a Maha Deva, he's even higher than that. She can actually lift hit any obstacles that he play before you to. Well, there are ten directions in Tntra, so This is also really important because there's five above, five below and then up and down right. So anyways, sorry about this. So you they come together and she kind

of lifts off. So that's what venus is. It's like really like it's very luciferic in chatre. It's just like you're like, sorry, we can go the next one, okay. So you can see I did choose it because she's wearing green and I thought that's interesting in green and gold. TJ brought that up. Nick brought that up, like that nets oc gold and green quality. So this is actually her real husband, who is Kubera. So Kuberra is a Yaksha king, meaning that he's a nature god, but he

is actually the god of wealth. A lot of people have different ideas of like who the god of wealth is in Hinduism, this is the god of wealth, Kuberra. So he's married to latch Me. So he is considered to be the tryasurer of the celestial and the chathonic treasury. So he literally sits in the vault counting the coins and his wife Lakshmi spends them. That's kind of the idea when she's granting you a boon she's kind of spending the things from the karmic treasury. So that's what

I'm saying. When you know, you pray for something and she grants it, well, it's just it's a future thing that actually you've already earned. It's something that you'll get in a future rebirth. But she's actually borrowing it from there, so you can exhaust it, you can exhaust it in one lifetime. So that's why she's considered fickle. So she

also hates her husband. So that's also interesting because even though I picked one where he's considered like he looks more handsome, he's usually like a little pot belly dwarf, which is how all yakshas look. So you know, that's just the way it is. But you can see the greater Lachmi standing above them pouring the jewels down. So in this form, she's not using your karma. She's actually drawing from the higher heavens. Her husband, her true husband,

which is Shiva. As I said, she got switched, but he's a worldly god, so in this he's also she's also married to a worldly god, but in her higher portion, she's really married to the highest god, who is Siva. Because he's really the one if you want to think of it like that. Okay, we can go the next one. Certain, Okay, So there we go, shoe crass. So this is the

planetary deity of Venus. So this is like the outer of the outers, you could say, like if you're giving it, like what is net SoC Like, this is the Venus. This is like the planetary probably intelligence, you could say. And so he is sex, drugs and rock and roll. It's like, I mean, Marios talked about this as well in his amazing videos. So yeah, he's sex, drugs and rock and roll. He you know. He one really interesting story that correlates to something that all you discussed was

the thing about eternal life. So originally Venus ran clockwise or turned clockwise, and so that's really Shukra. So the physical planet is Shukra. So when it's turning clockwise, he was able to grant humans immortality. But some of the other gods, not Shiva, Vishnu or the Goddess, the middle tier gods, you would say, they said, look, if you grant them immortality, what's going to happen is there will

be no more gods born in heaven. Because that's one of the consequences of good karma right is to be born in a higher realm. So they basically said, you have to turn the other way. So then he took away that boon or that portion of life force, and then we have mortality. So this also goes along with the death card. Who is also riding a white horse, and the white horse is a really interesting mount because it is amount is specifically in Tantra that is only

associated with kings, So very interesting, I think. And the oh, this was a note because I don't have a slide on it. But you guys were talking about the sun and like how we lived well, Mario and I have discussed it, like polar age, solar age, hyperborean age, who knows. But there is something interesting is that the Sun cult in India, so this is kind of the reverse of

the West. Almost the Sun cult became absorbed into the Weish novel cults, so the Vishnu cult, so all of the vishnws, like all the different forms of Vishnu that most people worship, that's the most prevalent kind of Hinduism, like seventy percent them. So Suria got absorbed into them. So Surria is not no longer an independent deity, but he used to be a very very important deity, probably the one of the primary cult focal points, you could say,

for about seven hundred years. So it is interesting that he got absorbed into this kind of what we could say is like a hesatic kind of messianic hero cult. Just interesting idea. Okay, Nick, we can go the next one, thank you. So again the luciferic thing. I had to choose this one because when Nick was saying it, I was like, Okay, that totally makes sense, because like, if she's empty, she's the zero the light passing through. What happens, It refracts into ten distinct spaces or wheels of time.

So I have said, and I've done a series with Nick on this a long time ago, that this is actually the tontric version, at least one kind of contra of the cabalistic tree, because you can even map them in different paths if you understand. So the image itself is not complete. It's probably less complete than actual cobalistic tree in terms of how much you can glean from the outer layer. But if you are just like somewhatle

you can actually figure it out. So it is kind of interesting because they're each numbered and then it's like her expression into her will. So when she's them, you could say, or them individually, she's fully expressed in her will. But when she's the zeros, there is nothing she doesn't have, like a core concept, except that the world is her.

Speaker 2

Also, do you know, I love this?

Speaker 9

Do you know if there's a correspondence between the images or scenes that sit opposite each other?

Speaker 1

Absolutely? So, do you want me to take you through it? I can do it really quick?

Speaker 2

Sure? Yeah.

Speaker 1

Okay, So the wheel always starts at the top, which is Collie, who's related to Saturn. Right, I'm just going to give you the tondric astrology like association because I think that will make sense to you. But one is not a prime number. So one is not the start, it's just the movement of the wheel. Right, it's the prime mover. It's not the prime cause I've talked to Nick about this million times. Psychologize. So then we have

Tara at two. Tara is in fact the expressive force's she's related to Jupiter, so we were talking about like the expansiveness of Jupiter infinite in her capacity for mercy and loving kindness. The mother of the milk ocean. So we also talked about milk before, so that's also interesting. And so she nurses Siva. Actually that's one of her fun like that's the story that she comes into the world. She comes in and nurses Siva with her breast and with her milk because it cures the poisons that arose

from the world ocean from the center. And so next is Tripera by Robbie. So she is the three. So she's related to mercury. And she expresses the word so like the actual name of the word, like the the, like the more, not necessarily the sound, but like the depiction maybe on paper, that is also her. So you can't think of it as like it's not masculine or you know, sometimes more masculine like toath. I was thinking because Nick is here obviously, but he gets associated with writing,

and I think that that's true. I think that the male deity is the physical act of writing. But when we're talking about in a contrac view, they would consider the actual letter when it's in an expression to be feminine. Does that make sense? Okay, So that is what she is. So she's extremely important. Some Tontra's place Kalia is the most important. Buddhist tantra obviously places Tara as the most important, and shri Vija tantra, which is just as popular as

Khali Kola, places Tripra sundry as the most important. So the word is the most important in some kinds of contra, so that's kind of interesting. Then you have Tripura by Ravi, who is associated with the knock Chatra or the hour of birth I think that is, or the Logna. Excuse me, she's associated with Logna. And then you have Chinnamastica, who's associated with Rahu. She's the only goddess who can clear

Rahu fully from a birth chart. Then you have I'm not sure which one this one is, so we'll come back to that. But then you have Dumavati as the widow in the chariot, so she is related to Tattoo. She's the only goddess who can clear Kattuo fully from a chart. Then you have Bagalamuki who's wearing the gold. She's related to Mars. She actually has a very interesting power.

It relates to the Hebrew Cabala actually quite well, it's like that stunning power, or it's like a she's holding a hammer and holding the demon's tongue, So it's kind of like the potential energy transforming into the kinetic energy. It's like the time before something takes action, Like I've likened it to the flintlock on a musket before. That's

very much what it is. But it's also like the moment of perception, like if you're driving really fast, especially in the winter, and that there's trees around you, but the light kind of pierces through and you kind of get momentarily stunned. That's even how it's sort of described, so kind of interesting. With that, then you have I don't even know which one this one is. Which ones are we missing? Okay, well that's okay, I don't remember. But because they do, they look too much alike to me.

But no, that's basically it. So you can relate them each in astrological timing using the Vedic chart. There's obviously ten mahavija, ten greater wisdoms, so they could be likened to stars. Is one thing I thought was interesting when Mario was speaking, because they're kind of greater than the planets.

They hold more potential, you could say more there, but they're not stars at the same time, because the stars are actually accounted for in the vitas, they're given specific names, so you could even say that they are the negative space between the stars and the planets. That's one way that it has been described. So that's also kind of interesting. I think, okay, boss, we can go the next one. I'm sorry, Okay. So Mario was talking about, like, oh

it's starting. Nick was talking about like that relationship with Geverra and Mars. So the monkey guy with the red flag, he has a direct relationship with Mars. He you could say he's like the the higher angelic expression of Mars in their system, so he's always worshiped on Tuesdays. Hanuman, that's the monkey King, not the same as the Chinese

monkey kingf saying he's the paronic monkey king. And then the little blue guy beside her is really interesting because he kind of is the serious god of the Tondrack pantheon. He's the dog god. That's why you see a little dog even sitting beside him. But it's also her husband. It's also Shiva, but it's Shiva in a very specific form. Is Siva as smoke. So why am I saying that?

Because he is non generative. He's an acetic on the carnal ground, so he can lead her to greater knowledge, but she in and of herself does not possess it. And this also corresponds to the chronic stories because he is he gives her the tontras, but when he is in the world or up at the carnoground either or but when he's a little boy, he can't. He doesn't say anything's there's a like a Siturnian quality and also

like a Rahu I always liking it to Neptune. It's kind of like a little bit Neptunian, but he's not the he's kind of like the mysterious element of that more so than he's not like really related to Neptune. That's just a more conceptual understanding. But yeah, he's the dog god. He writes it. Usually it's a black dog, but sometimes it can be any pariah dog, so like any kind of like wild dog in the city. He's associated with like very outcased carnal ground, like you're living

on a smash on it. But it's not necessarily transgressive. It's just totally acetic, meaning totally non generative. So that's one idea Okay, we can go the next one. Thank you, Nick, thank you.

Speaker 5

Okay.

Speaker 1

So this is Shiva as the householder. So you could say that when the goddess who is not not locks me. I know I was talking a lot about Lockshmi, but it's not. It is Pavarti. So this is when she is a householder and they're all together, so at their most coherent, you could even say. So it is interesting because I even I wrote down in the chat bowl and caw, well, he rides a bull. Shiva rides a bull, and she obviously can ride a lion, but there are some forms of her where she does also ride a bull,

so very interesting. And his bull is obviously white. And you're talking about milk, well, his worship is done with milk. They use milk on that stone, so you can even see it. That's why I chose this particular image. It's it's the three lines with the red dot in between, and you pour. It's a black stone. It's usually made of black chloralite, and so you pour milk over it and the milk appears blue, so it gives it like a turquoise kind of that's the god color, right as

the turquoise or it can be lapis lazulai. It depends in tntra. Sometimes they prefer lapis.

Speaker 3

And that's a lingum, correct, is that right?

Speaker 1

Yeah, it's a shiva lingam. So it's it can be said that he's at his most generative when he's a householder, but he's unhappy. That's how it's described. I'm not saying to take that literally, but he's described as unhappy as a householder.

Speaker 3

I was just going to point out the relationship between the lingam and the obelisk, both having the lem meant to the phallis line and the point when one viewed from above.

Speaker 1

No, that's a great point, Ethan. The thing is is that his sons. You see his son sitting there with the peacock behind him, his son actually holds something that could be described as obelisk like in structure. So it's his magic spear, which is a vell. So see that has a point. The lingam does not have a point. And because it's non generative, meaning he's not and that's why he's described as an acetic, because he's not interested

in perpetuating creation. He's interested in his own mind. So that's why he actually goes off into the cardinal ground is sick explore. He's like a magician. Rights he's well yogi, he's a he's the chief yoga or he's chief Yogi.

Speaker 5

Excuse me.

Speaker 1

So he goes off into the cardinal ground to do yoga. That's basically how it's described. So that's where he develops tantra because it comes to him when he's surrounded by all the ghosts and demons. But his son back can be said to be obelisk like, and he is the god of logic and chess and all that stuff.

Speaker 9

So the detail of the milk changing color when poured on the shivl ingam that that's an amazing detail.

Speaker 3

Man.

Speaker 2

I've never heard of that before.

Speaker 9

And I saw that happen a number of times when I was in India, and you're totally right.

Speaker 2

I never made that connection. But that's really brilliant.

Speaker 1

Oh thanks many. I appreciate that. You know that just I think that is just because I've seen it so many times, U huh. And you know, I know the colors are obviously from Buddhism, so I understand like how to kind of interpret it. And I've read all the contras,

not all the times but many contras. So I, you know, I have a understanding of the processes even though even in a normal pouja, right, because most people who go to a pooja, it's like, but most people go to a mass, they don't really understand what's happening.

Speaker 2

Mm hmm.

Speaker 1

It's only like, right, so all the processes, even the priests don't know is understand especially I'm talking about Indian. I'm not talking about anything Christian. I'm just talking about normative Hinduism. A lot of the priests don't even understand the processes. They might know the you know, the method of worship, the shastra, but they don't necessarily understand like the different things they're doing.

Speaker 2

Mm hmmm, right, yeah, I know exactly.

Speaker 1

And it is interesting that since you brought that up, Mario, he is considered to be the god of secret knowledge.

Speaker 2

So that is that's what I was trying to say.

Speaker 1

Of like tantra and yoga, that he is the god of secret knowledge, and he wears the cruscent moon like you guys were talking about the crust he wears's head. So there's actually a grouping of sixteen goddesses who also wear the cruscent moon above their head. So we're going to also end on that when we get to the last two. Is that the so those goddesses are called niche goddesses. They refer to the different phases of the moon. So there's sixteen like waxing and like whatever. It's that.

That's kind of how they're arranged. It's like a waxing and waning cycle. So they are considered to be her daughters, so that is also interesting, and they're like each one is given like one or two nights and then they're given that worship, but they're worship through her. So remember I said that Tantra loves the number seven for her, but also the number ten, So you could say that this pairing when they're at four also corresponds to what

Robbie was saying. There is like this expression. This is kind of like expansive. They're able to grant boons in the normative way. So for most people this is the image they'll have. This is a very normative image, except that it includes the son who's sitting on the bottom that is non normative. So I did choose something kind of Tantra, so not necessarily intentionally, but I just did think it was more interesting with the peacock king. Okay, we can go the next one. Sorry, Nick, thank you.

Speaker 5

Oh.

Speaker 1

I did want to say one thing about the other image is that he has a blue neck ring around his neck. So that is a really important sort of motif of Shiva's that it's called nili kantha. It refers to this blue green ring and it can also refer to a naga, so a snake. When he is wrapped around his neck. It prevents the poison, which is the sort of you could say the noxiousness of mercury or quicksilver. So only mercury is actually not as toxic. I'm not saying to anyone to use it, Please don't use it.

I'm just saying as toxic as perhaps is in the popular consciousness. So, but there is a point where it can become very toxic if you over the over application of heat, and it takes a lot of heat to make it offset. So basically that's kind of the idea. It's like, then there's so much heat that the kind of noxious fumes of quicksilver sort of like overtake the heavens and then the gods fear for their collapse. So he swallows, and then that's why he has the blue

ring around us. Okay, so this is the star. So basically, this is what I was thinking when you guys were doing all the tarot stuff, was this is the yontra. So this is the magic seal of this very important goddess. So I have named like four goddesses. I believe this is the highest expression of them, of the goddesses, of all the goddesses that I've described, but this is the

highest expression because it's Yantra. It's formless. I mean, yes, obviously has a form, but it's on a copper sheet as well, and that's also very venus, very nat sock and the star obviously. So the five pointed thing, which was also interesting, and Nick brought that up definitely, Mario brought that up, Robbie talked about it, Ethan talked about it. It's the five purified elements in this formation, so not always his time is really important, right because it's also

her husband. But you could say that it's the five purified elements, meaning that his chakra. But we're using a five point in system. It's all rectified in her and then it's expressed in sound. So that's kind of the highest expression of venus in contract thinking. It's sound.

Speaker 7

I had that like thought while just staring at it was like, just with the geometry and stuff, with the five into the six and with the five, it's like the five.

Speaker 6

Can go into the six more than the six can go into.

Speaker 7

The five, and the six is the structure that holds the energy the five to create the harmony. So I was just you just validated that for me. I don't know if I explained my thoughts well, but you really validated that for me.

Speaker 1

No, you absolutely did. That's so interesting you said that TJ because she is this goddess for Ahi, which we're gonna see image of her next. She's actually considered to be the father goddess of Tntra. Even though she's a goddess, she's the father goddess, So she's generative at one point, but not in the whole you could say, in the whole way, not in her whole story or Leela, but as the Verahi, she is generative, but it's a masculine

generativeness even though she's female. So this is explained by the fact that she could be considered to be like a tree of night goddess, a klepalithic goddess because she is the goddess of the smush on her. So she rises through all the klipas or all the tree of death, and then she arises back. Just like I said, there's like a clockwise and a counterclockwise element to venus or Mamrio obviously said that too, but yeah, yeah, so she climbs up and so then she can climb the whole

tree like she can climb all the way up. But it's because she's gone through this experience. So that's what makes her the most important, because she's learned to the saying is that she can liberate light in matter with sound, So that takes all four elements plus mind, which is really akasha the space. So what is a better way to trap four elements in space is with a word, but it's really sound, So yeah, okay, So that's pretty much the explanation. That's why it's also anti and iconic

because it's there's no image. It's just that's how this is the true contric warshaw beyond image, no idol. But interestingly, always in the South, these are always installed underneath or on the ceiling. If you go to a Buddhist temple. These will be installed on the ceiling of the images because this is considered to be the true image. Cool, okay, we can do the last one, thinks man. So I did choose this one specifically because of what Nick said

was about netsak Geverra, red and green having a relationship. Well, even it's interesting because even she's wearing the green undershirt, so it's like green as the foundation, but the outer sorry is red, so it's like the it's almost like the red is perceiving her, the red is looking at her and sort pouring over her. So I don't know, I thought that was interesting. But you can see like she's even standing on the star, because what is she?

She's the greater expression of space, or at least of the way to put the four elements or five elements into space. So interestingly, to go along with Mario's point, I don't know, Mario feels complicated for you, but she is. Although I chose an image where she's depicted as throned, she I can actually also be dancing, so she can be both, So I think that's also interesting. But she's the most powerful if you're going to say, like what is the most powerful contrick we'll call it undoing air

quotes archetype of Venus. This is the most powerful condrac archetype of Venus because she can be accessed in both no normative and non normative kinds of Hinduism, as well as the most important goddess in Buddhism, second only to Tara. So that's what I have. Thanks guys, Yeah, thank you. That was awesome.

Speaker 2

Yeah, that was fantastic. Thank you. That was was amazing.

Speaker 5

Apprecire h. Is there anything else anybody else? What did it?

Speaker 9

I don't think so. There are so many things, though, Jim, that you brought up that we could riff on for a really long time. And I'm such a visual person that you bringing these things to the table is super valuable. So I was taking screenshots and stuff.

Speaker 2

Yeah.

Speaker 3

Yeah, both those presentations were amazing. For a little levity. I thought that the god of seriousness in that Shiva form him to have that funny dog is a very funny.

Speaker 1

Yeah. No, it's really interesting that you bring that up, even because he's childlike, right, so he he has like an element of play. I know, I've heard Robbie say that word before. I say, yeah, that's what he is. He's like there's an element like I'm gonna lead you to the cardinal ground, but it's not going to be You're gonna see terrifying things, but I'm not necessarily terrifying in the way I'm presenting myself well.

Speaker 8

And interestingly, she was riding the tiger, but if you go back to Mother Kibbili, she rides the lion and Addis runs along with her with a dog at his feet, which I think very much relates to the full card running off the cliff.

Speaker 1

Oh yeah, he definitely is. I would even place him att Chuck mat personally. Yeah, so no, I agree with that one hundred percent. And with the full Card. That's because he he's like, he is very choked.

Speaker 3

Ma.

Speaker 1

He's like a manifestation of the smoke you could say, in the world. But he he can travel through the sufferer, but he can't really. He can do little things. It's like very there's a hode like mercurial like element to him where he can kind of like he can influence maybe things, but it's it's it's minor. It's not like, oh, I'm gonna like, you know, the great thing, like a childish state exactly.

Speaker 5

All right, nice, Thank you very much.

Speaker 4

There's actually a lot of eye stuff in there that I just didn't get into it that maybe i'll talk to you about one, Dach. I don't want to come on about it, but uh, thank you very much. I really appreciate those visuals.

Speaker 5

Thank you all for coming on.

Speaker 4

A little bit longer than I thought, but I mean it was all solid salt stuff, so I appreciate you all spending the time tonight to meet up again. We got Ethan Intogo. His notes are in the bottom, his links in the show notes. Frida Jinn as well. We've got teaching down there, Robbie Marks and Marios. All their links will be in the show notes. Thank you all again, this is a great show. Can't wait to do the next And until the next one, have everybody be well later

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