The X-Files with Christopher Knowles

the National Security State by Christopher Knowles. Even though the tunnel alone you can see what kind of territory the book is moving through not just aliens, monsters and FBI files, but conspiracy culture, myth symbolism, state secrecy, and the machinery of modern belief. Knowles himself frames the book as a work of cultural criticism and historical and artistic analysis, not just fandom, which is important because this is clearly meant

to go much deeper than a simple episode guide. Christopher Noles comes into the subject to somebody who has been circling these themes for a long time. The front matter shows a body of work already steeped in pop culture, hidden meanings, comics, rock history and symbolic analysis, and in the introduction, he makes it clear that this book grew

out of decades long obsession with the X Files. He even says he co wrote the complete X Files back in two thousand and eight and describes his own background as one shaped by paranormal media, punk culture, simple spotting, and proximity to people tied to the national security world. So this is not a detached outside of looking in.

This is somebody who sees The X Files as one of the great modern myth making engines of our time, and who wants to trace everything packed inside it, from UFO law and black projects to myth religion, human experimentation, and the deeper symbolic architecture of this series itself. What makes this book interesting is that Knowles is not arguing that The X Files was just a hit show with

creepy monsters in great atmosphere. He's arguing it became something much larger, a lens for reading the fears, conspiracies, obsessions, and hidden tensions of the modern world. And when you look at the table of contents you can see the ambition immediately. Nineteen seventies conspiracy thrillers, UFO conspiracy theories, human experimentation, mythology, the Bible Files, the Gnostic X Files, and then season

by season breakdowns tied back into all of it. This book is trying to explain why The X Files hit so hard, why it stayed alive in people's minds, and why it still feels connected to the world long after the original moment that produced it all. Right, now, enough out of me, and before we introduced this guest, let me introduce everybody else that is on the show with us, all the other rejects. What is going on, Kiva? It's good to have you back on. How are you?

So you can all follow me on megas in the media, YouTube, X, all the thing, Instagram. We're doing it and we're doing it all the time. Yeah, I'm just really excited about this evening. X Files is one of my favorite shows. Season three, episode twenty really breaks down a lot of what's been going on in the world, I think, so I hope we get into that a little bit today. Yeah, I'm just excited to be here.

with her. Brandon, of course, my erstwhile co host on our Monday Lives, which we've been doing a kind of gonzo radio, which fits right in with my show, which is Threshold Saints, which is serial Experiments, inspect Little Ontology. You can find it on a substack is my best landing platform, but also Spotify and Apple Threshold Saints substack

dot com. Today I'm dropping an episode with Paul Frederick of the Demonosofty podcast and we're discussing sort of the return to Zoroastrianism or what that will look like, of course with my co host Solo Exile, and I am really excited to be on a panel with Chris. This is not my first time being on a panel with Chris. It was a couple of years ago on End of Day's Radio. But definitely I think we're going to have

a really interesting discussion. I'm happy to listen and learn, and I want to shout out arrows in the chat and also Vanessa, So what's up guys and the Great Lodge represent Thank you so much, appreciate it.

times you'll get unique information on each particular platform. But you know, things been rocking and rolling, particularly on the Patreon since twenty twenty one, so coming up on five years. Substack opened last year, and I have a YouTube channel, but I don't really do much on it, you know, I just sort of repost things. You know. Most of the materials that I will upload will be excerpts or reposts from materials that I've done for you know, the

Patreon and the substacks. And I'm doing books you know I've got of course, we're talking about XCF Ultra, and I'm working on a sequel to my twenty nineteen novel He Will Live Up in the Sky, and I'm really trying. One of my plans is to get both the original book and the sequel. Now I'm done on audio book for people, which is going to be a bit of work. You know, you can't ai those kind of things, uh, you know, non fiction books because there's so much inflection

and emotion and so on and so forth. So that's gonna be uh, once I get the book done, I'm about halfway through it now. Once I get the book done, I'm going to be hopefully launching a Kickstarter or whatever to uh raise the funds to get a really good reader. And both books are very much in the vein of you know, the things that you talk about that I talk about, that I blog about that I write books about,

you know. So it's all in the same family. I'm not I'm not like writing like like a romance novelist, you know, or historic it's all processing the same kind of information.

I just thought it was interesting for the way that you put the context of, like, you know, before September tenth, nineteen ninety three, how your life was and how you know, how you saw the world and what you were into before you you know, hit this obsession.

We had this ritual. We would order pizza and get beers and watch Cops America's Most Wanted, and then the show called Sightings.

you know, it's all gonna be UFOs. So just to back up, I mean, if you know any of you guys are younger, or your viewers or listeners are younger, this was a time like early nineties when like UFO culture was huge. I mean there would be like conventions, UFO conventions somewhere like almost every weekend. And this is like in the wake of like Bob Blazaar and Area fifty one was a huge thing. You know, Communion was a few years before, and then you had films like Fire in the Sky and.

what it was like for me. I mean, this is like a little twenty four you know, bits per second modem, right, It's the little archaic thing, right, But it was just so intoxicating. It was just like I swear to God, it was like so many injecting opium directly into my brain stem. It was just incredible. And it was like that for a while. I really missed those days, I really do. But I discovered like alt conspiracy and all this kind of stuff on Usenet, which I had never

really been exposed to. But at the same time I was really into like sixty Greatest Conspiracies of all Time, and a couple of years later it was the Big Book of Conspiracies, I mean, this is really the dawn of the age, and this is like apocalypse culture. I mean, I don't know if any of you guys are familiar with any of these books or whatever, but I was.

There was actually a store in New York called see Here, which started out just selling like rock magazines, but then they sort of branched out and they there was a lot of conspiracy stuff. I mean there was like research and a mock press and all these kind of things, and it was really like it was brand new to me, you know. I mean, even though I had watched like In Search of and all this kind of you know,

all this conspiracy movies from the seventies. Obviously Three Days of the condor Parallox Files, so on and so forth, or Parallax Parallax. Oh, not the Parallax view. I'm getting confused here. So anyhow, I was just really I was ready for it, you know, I just was prepared for it. And that first episode just totally blew me away. But then the second episode just like freaked me out. Like I really thought like I was getting put on like

a watch list just for watching the show. I don't know if anybody's ever seen the second episode, but it's sort of like their Area fifty one episode. But the whole thing was just like so incredibly paranoid. It was like the most paranoid thing I think I'd ever seen on TV before. But like I said, I mean, I grew up in the seventies, so I saw Capricorn one at the movies, you know, I mean all these kinds

of things. So I sort of had the same cultural background that the writers and the producers of the show had, you know, even though it was a few years younger than most of them. But you know, I was ready for it. So it was really exciting. And I still think that the X Files pilot is probably the greatest pilot ever made, you know, as far as like this

is the universe, this is the world. You know, it's just completely establishing the world and setting the template and just setting the table for everything that was about to come. I mean, if you just go back and watch particular those first two episodes, it's just amazing how well they stand up.

how hyperstition basically works. You put all these memes and concepts and strange vocabulary and all these kind of things out there, and this is very much obviously an Internet based kind of thing from that Wild West period of the early nineties, and you start to change the course of reality through hyperstition, you know, through introducing these concepts and ideas and like I said, memes and symbols and all these kinds of things in a directed way, and

it becomes almost like the sort of push and pull with external reality. Okay, and if jen am I am I on on on track there, I mean you said.

more and more and more about. I mean, this is something that we can discuss in another episode maybe. But the two things that I say are that, you know, as far as synchronisticism is concerned, which I think is sort of the redheaded cousin of hyperstition in some ways, it's sort of the poor relation of hyperstition. But I think the X Files in my mind and the work that I've done, and I think the work that I

put in the book bears this out. I think it's the most the second most potent synchronistic generator that I've ever seen, and then I can even imagine. I don't think you could have something with that kind of power at any other time, like not even now, you know, that time and history, when you still had a mass culture. We don't have a mass culture anymore. When the Internet was new, it's not new anymore. You had all these preconditions that allowed something that was just pumping all this

incredibly potent symbolism into the culture, and it changed. It changed the I mean I think it changed the course of history. And that might sound a little over ambitious in some ways, but but I really do believe it. I think that it changed the way people thought, Like you wouldn't have people like Alex Jones and Mark Dice in the late nineties without the X Files. I mean, those people were just they just would have never gained

any traction. They would have just seen as you know as the way the people like that were seen prior to the X Files is just completely marginal, irrelevant, koops. And it was because the X Files had made this whole worldview so alluring, And I think alluring is really the term that it gave, you know, conspiracy culture and all the rest of it a push that I can't imagine would it ever ever happened without it?

like it's it's putting. I also have a problem with believing it might be real, but I do see that now it's like it is putting shit that was considered a year or two ago, fucking fanatic thinking into like, oh no, what's real.

think it gets to be very murky. But I do think one of the main one of the I think one of the main objectives behind the epstein whatever it is. I mean, whether it's a pyop or hyperstition or conspiracy,

whatever you choose to label it as. And it's going to depend on how you perceive it, right, But I think and I said this, and I got in trouble for saying this, but it's like, I think the idea was like to push the concept, to push this notion in the public mind that elite pedophiles are interested in post pubescent girls, when in reality, elite pedophiles are almost exclusively interested in pre pubescent boys. Okay, I mean that's just the reality of it. And I think that people

have gotten sort of misdirected, you know. I think it's very convenient for a lot of people who are involved in elite predation let's just call it, to think, oh, well, it's just you know, it's these sixteen year old girls who you know, they would have gotten in trouble somehow anyway. You know, they are just you know, from trailer parks, and they're all headed for trouble. You know, they probab would have just been like working the strip in Pensacola

or something whatever. And then that's shifting the shifting the focus away from what it really should be on, which is that it's always been It's always been and you read this in religion, in history and myth it's always been focused on pep besting boys. And this might be like a little bit of a you know, maybe this is a little bit too much of us, you know, a strong drink for people, but I really do believe.

whole operation. And like I said, I mean, it's like I think most people take it for granted if you read the newspaper even that you know, girls under the age of twenty, you know, say, between the ages of fourteen and twenty are very highly sought aft or for prostitution, whether it's in sort of this gray market prostitution in Las Vegas or Los Angeles, wherever, you know, whatever you're talking about. And I think it's just like the problem

that I had. And this gets to vocabulary and definition. Epstein, as we know it was not technically a pedophile. He was in a feeble file. He was interested in adolescence. Those are two different phenomena. You might have been following this horrible situation in Texas, right with this FedEx driver who kidnaps this girl. See that, to me is what see Pedophilia to me is also very very much a misnomer because really what it is is pedopathy because it always,

it always leads to violence. You know, the children in the materials that they consume always get younger and younger and younger. It always becomes violent, all right, it always be. It doesn't always end in murder, but violence is really at the core of it, because it is a moral sickness, Okay, And I think redefining that is this this some sleazy old banker from New York who has a taste for sixteen year old blonde girls from Florida doesn't really do

the real problem. You know, it doesn't do that doesn't do justice to what the problem really is all about. Okay, so I'm sorry, I'll get off my soap.

But there's an episode called Red Museum, which is one of what I call the nonfiction episodes, and it's it's about this town where they're injecting the cattle with weird genetically modified drugs and so on, but they're also injecting the kids, and it's you know, a pedo sort of blows the cover on the whole thing. But as I said, I mean, he's interested in young boys, you know what

I'm saying. And that's really again, I mean, this is you know, maybe a little bit too dark for noontime on a Friday, but that's just that's just the way it is. And that's the problem that I do have with the Epstein materials is that I think that it is a huge distraction for what the problem really is.

and it's quite fascinating. How then, that is itself a paradigm shift in the collective consciousness of the media marketing slash human angle to be able to see something and then for to like basically plant seeds of people who are already on the outskirts and then allow it for them to open up these radio shows and things like that.

So I do find that to be it's an easy way to see how modern myth is interactive in human experentiality, and how it's not just myths are outside of us and humans and the experiences we have or outside of us, but they're deeply integrated and as well. You then get this inversion with what you were just talking about with how how do you traumatize and create traumatized humans is to start at a young age, no matter who they are,

boy or girl. But it's really fascinating that then in the military industrial mechanized, old garchical parasite class that how do you build up people in vulnerable states, Just like in the LSD experiments, you put somebody in a vulnerable state.

It doesn't always have to be a drugs. It can be with these lower circuits that you know, sex and all these different things and put them through terrible emotions and then you can implant these circuitry these new programs, put them into Hollywood, put them into the public sphere, and it's almost like they're walking eggrogres themselves. They're walking

dark shades of the Night of the kliptotic spirits. As then they go and they push up against everybody else, you know, And so it's a fascinating that's a fascinating discussion. So I just want to add that to it. Is how you create an inverted myth for our culture to follow and then at the same time be able to cover it up and say, well, that's just all fantasy. Because it just happened in a TV show doesn't mean it's happening in real life. And so there's just so many layers.

about human experimentation. I mean, there's and there's a whole host of those, right, those episodes are the ones that really get on your skin. And I had mentioned that second episode Deep Throat. Now, if you watch that up, actually, if you watch the first two episodes, you doesn't. And I write this in the book, there's no reason to believe that any of this is aliens, that anything that

you're seeing is anything but the military. And and this is something that's explicitly spelled out in the in the series as well in the fifth season, there's no reason if you go back and watch that, it's just it's all about people being experienced on the first season, you know, the first pilot, like I said, it's about kids being experimented on and there's no there's no trace. You don't see a gray, you don't see a UFO. I mean, you'll you'll see some lights in the woods and so on,

but that could be anything. That could be some sort of helicopter, could be any you know, just something special effects that they were putting on for the for the agent's benefit. So when you when you put it in that kind of context. And this is why the Scully character is so important too, because she ideally provides a very credible alternative explanation to what you're seeing. And there is this weird and this, you know, this cuts to

the heart of the liminality. There's something that I've always noticed is that the most effective paranormal, supernatural, mystical, whatever kind of stories you're talking about. To me, the most effective ones are the ones that are for you, within the narrative, a very credible counter explanation to the paranormal, to the to the mystical, to the spiritual, to the supernatural.

But ever, this this is a very strange power and I think it is some sort of I'm not exactly even sure how to explain it, but it's something that I've noticed, you know, throughout you know, throughout all the things that I've read and watched and so on and so forth, that the best story. That's why the Scully character is so important to me, because she's the voice of the audience. And I think I believe Chris Carter said that. So that's when that liminality and that and

then it starts to break out of the screen. You know, it starts to break out of the confines of fictional content, right, it starts to I don't I don't want to use the word infect because that sort of has a negative connotation to it, but it's you know, it starts to play in seeds in your mind. And that again, that's why I think the show was so I mean, there'd been a bunch of shows in the past, like The

X Files. You know, the main example that people always cite is cull Check the Night Stalk from the early seventies, but that didn't have a powerful counterargument to the paranormal and that's why it didn't last long, and that's why it didn't have the effect, right, I mean, let's be frank here. I mean, it's also the chemistry between David d'copany and Jillian Anderson, ironically, who hated each other's guts when they were making the show, but they had this

incredible on screen chemistry. But see, that's what that's what it was really all about for me, is that when ideas break out of the confines of fiction, when they break the confines of entertainment, when they break out of the confines of like a weekly television show, and they start to plan seeds in the culture, and that is a formula that will never be replicated. I don't think I don't think you'll ever see anything like that again.

And that paradigm shift that you're referring to really boils down to a bunch of really smart people who really did the reading, really did the research, and maybe did have this sort of sense that they did want to They didn't have the term for it. I don't know if they knew of the term hyperstition, but they were basically, you know, it's it is a former chaos magic, I think ideally.

and you're almost like yelling at her. Can't you see it's right in front of your face?

their beliefs, which is colored by their prejudices. Okay, so that's something when you go, if you're going to do like a rewatch, you know you're not watching a presentation of objective reality ever on that show, Okay, And and very deliberately so, they always were presenting you who is telling you this story? Is this scholar? Is this Mauldi scholar? Is this Skully? Is a small or is this somebody else? I mean, who who's who?

long time. So really, what Molder and Scully are is that their assassins, Okay, they're programmed assassins, and they're programmed with their particular point of view with their particular prejudices, right, But there's this huge program, this post war program, this eugenics program, you know, to create a slave race, to create super soldiers, you know, to create all these various, uh, subsets of humanity. And they were chosen because their families

were both part of the military industrial complex. They were chosen, you know, not only to be these programmed assassins. So when they're hunting down these monsters and so on, really what they're hunting down are the rejects or the escapees from this genetic engineering program. And I mean, as crazy as that sounds to some people, there is an episode in that twenty sixteen season called Founders Mutation that basically kind of spells that out. And that was that was

the episode. I mean, even though that series miniseries whatever was pretty underwhelming, that episode blew my mind open because I'm like, oh, there's there's the final puzzle. So you're not watching these two separate series where like there'll be the episodes with the UFO and alien conspiracy and then you'll watch the episodes with like the monsters and so on. No, it's all the same story because they're not aliens, they're

not monsters as we understand them. It's all part of this genetics program, and Moulderin's Gully are programmed to think that they're fighting monsters or they're chasing aliens or whatever to assuage their consciences so they can, you know, they can kill these poor creatures who are all part of this genetic horrific experimentation you know that started in the post war paper clip and all the rest of it.

But at the same time, they're also being primed to create like children, you know, bere offspring for the new super race. Now I spelled this out in great detail because I can cite you chapter in verse in all the different episodes that bolst of this theory. And like I said, in those first two episodes, you don't see aliens. There's no why would you believe in aliens. There's no

sign of aliens anywhere. I mean, you don't. I don't think you even see actual, like sort of gray aliens until the second season, and even then you're not sure if it's a hallucination or not. And that's kind of the magic of the series as well. Now, if you go back and watch that with that in mind, you should also you know, read the book so I can explain it for you know, episode by episode it will start to you'll suddenly realize that you're watching a completely

different series than the one you thought you were. And again that granted that is a theory, right, it's a fan there, but I think it's pretty well supported by the evidence. So there you go.

are thinking it's it's date grape. And then all of a sudden, the boy's like no, that's not what happened. And then Moulder and Scully are being interviewed by Jose Chung, who's an actual writer in real life and he wrote that episode, right, is that No?

took them in for human experimentation and then did a psychological experiment on them that blanked out their memory, or actually it was all three and not the gray aliens, but different aliens were going on. So you get memory. You get these kids who actually have imprinted implanted memories of being abducted by gray aliens, and they both have similar but slightly different understandings of what that abduction happened.

And as they're going through it, they're able to peer through moldernscoolre able to peer through the actual layers of the abduction theory to see that it wasn't a gray alien, but it was the military industrial complex psychotherapist who was putting them in an hypnotic trance to make them believe that it was an alien abduct But by the end of it, you actually get to see this alien that was there, that was there on the outside, and it's

so crazy. And you also get the men in black coming in just even true, I think is one of them if I wasn't mistaken or WI. Yeah, exactly. And so that's a perfect micro macrocosm to exactly what you were saying of question, the questioning of the question, to try to get back to what the main theory was that it was there were aliens evolved, but not really,

it was the military industrial complex and not really. The mind is so malleable, and I think that's one of the base theories of the X Files is the malleability of the mind through paradigm shifts of conscious and people trying to work on it.

what that episode is explicitly about. And there are hints of that, like I said, throughout the series, and like the first two episodes, I think you could plug that same interpretation into So yeah, that's that's a good one, and I recommend that everybody watched that.

a part of something. And then just going back to like what you said about the show being able to just blast people to like the expansion like that is like that Neptune Uranus thing. It's like, you know, and it's in Capricorn, so Urinus was blasting open Saturn's world of materiality, and then you have Neptune giving us this like foggy, very like grounded glimpse of the others.

I mean, I don't know if that's grounded in real astrology personally, but I recommend you check out that episode and maybe get back to me and tell me any sort of my real life. It's called ZG, you know, like the whole idea.

some ways, you know. I mean, it's like his whole and it's almost like very medieval thinking as well too, because it's all about, you know, recognizing patterns and that God is constantly presenting us with these sort of puzzles that we need to solve and everything like that, which is kind of the basis of you know, what I've been doing for for a number of years, that we're presented with with all these puzzles that if we start to recognize the pawn and that's explicitly in the dialogue too.

You know, it's like the winners recognize the patterns, they can sense the patterns, and they can work with the patterns, you know, which to me is it's almost a synchronistic manifesto in some ways. So anyway, there you go.

maybe divert them off in different directions. And it's it's almost like it's a culmination of all of these different hyperstitions and now they become the hyperstition magicians, putting out strategic ambiguity and all sort of walks of life, you know, flooding the zone.

network of capillaries. Okay, and that's increasing. I mean, all you have to do is just go on a Twitter. And I think that that kind of like cast sunsteam thinking is very archaic, and I don't think that it's

really subscribed to anymore. You know, There's certainly been attempts to sort of manipulate the alternative, you know, the other mainstream quote unquote, but it always fails because you've got groups of young people who have these micro mini micro cultures, whose language and whose mode of thought and whose methods of communication are so are cain and so hyper specialized

that you can't infiltrate that. You know, it becomes like that meme that the Steve Semi meme, Hello fellow kids, right, you know you can't you can't infiltrate some discord group with these extremely online kids who've been talking to each other exclusively for for years, have their own vocabulary, their own modes of unconscious signaling. Even you can't infiltrate that.

You can't subvert that anymore. And I think I think that's really played into the you know, what I see is, you know, we are in the middle of the Fourth Turning, and I think the X Files in some ways, you know, I mean, it was thirty years ago, right, but I think that it did sort of presage Fourth Turning in a lot of ways. And the people who I don't want to say they're in power, you know, that's sort

of a subjective term. But the people who grew up on the X files are the people who are moving into positions of influence in whatever field or or not. If they didn't grow up with the X files, they grew up in that same environment, right, And you know, talking about people like Mark Dice and Alex Jones and so on. I mean, if you go back, I don't even know if you can even find the stuff because

everything is disappearing from the Internet these days. But you know a lot of quote unquote conspiracy sites, you know, would use something like files, and you know they're always trying to sort of glom there, get some of that glamour, right, some of that X files glamour for themselves. So they use like similar typography of fonts and so on, or you know, use the files in their name and everything

like that. But that again, that's that's archaic, that's already cycled out of the culture completely.

Now the whole thing with like the abducted sister and that's it's Orpheus and Eridity, and then when Scully is abducted they play that up and that the future film Fight the Future it's even more explicit. Like Carter was really focused on this symbolism from the mystery cults, and there would be episodes that Wou'd be playing like on Demeter and Persephony, so on one episode which is very hard to watch called Ubiliat, which is it? And like it even ends on a river, you know what I mean,

like the river sticks. And so I've been writing about this for years, right, and then getting back to twenty sixteen. Right, there's an episode called Babylon, and it's literally like Mulder takes mushrooms, even though they have to hedge it for the for the censors, right, but he takes mushrooms and he descends into the underworld and he's on the River Styx, right, and you know, with the dams and everything like that. And I just remember watching it and thinking, God, Chris

Carter wrote this from me, I really did. I really thought that, because like I've been talking about all this symbolism, you know, particularly from Greco Roman mystery cults. But it really began for me before I sort of realized that Greco mystery cults. There was a guy named David Flynn. I don't know if anybody's ever heard of him. He was a Christian conspiracy researcher from the nineties, passed away, I believe twenty twelve, which is kind of ironic because

he'd written a lot about twenty twelve. But he had started this website in nineteen ninety nine now it's two thousand, called Having Moulder's Baby, and this whole thing was like this whole storyline, you know, Moulder's abducted and so on, and it's like Osiris and Isis and Horace and all that kind of thing. And he you can even I don't know if the website is still online, but you

could probably find it on like internet wayback machine. But I was waiting for years for him to follow up on him, like okay, well you know, tell us more, let's hear it. And he never followed up on it. So I was like, all right, I'm going to do it myself. So I went back and watched this whole thing where like they're playing off the whole thing with that and Osiris and the birth the birth of Horace and so on, and the wilderness and everything like that,

and they followed that arc like rather closely. I mean there's no there's no exact symbolism, like you don't see pyramids and all that kind of stuff or whatever, you know, eyes of raw something, you know, there's none of that. But they're following the mythological arc very closely. Now, this has been done for thousands of years. I mean this is as old as time, right, just rewriting myths for your new myths or whatever, for your religion or for your stories. I mean, this is as old as time.

But I was really because I have like really serious OCD. I was just so hyper focused on the detail of it, and that again led me into this whole other you know, the Greco Roman mythology and so on and so forth. But they are there's also what they call easter eggs, so they would put they would insert a lot of symbols explicitly, and that even on the official website back when it was running, would let you know what they were and so on. But I think a lot of

that was sort of misdirection. But it's it's all to sort of hyperactivate a part of our imaginations, I guess you would say, And that to me fed into this liminal power, you know, of this hyperstitious power. Even though it's not like you'll see where say, say like the Matrix films, where the symbolism is like bashing over the head with a hammer and saying, look at us, aren't we clever? Look at our symbols? WHOA right? And it's just it's just so corny and cheesy, and it doesn't

really land. I think when you have to go searching for it, or when you're sort of soaking it in unconsciously, that's when I think it really starts to bed itself into your unconscious mind.

I kind of needed that because you question things, and you have all the fantasy and the sci fi as a kid you're reading, and it doesn't really lead you into this thing about like what is the matrix? You know, it's like it's you know, it's like something of the mind and it's all around as blah blah blah. You kind of need that, but it's not like it landed. And that's something I'm continually trying to tell people is that you don't just take the red pill once and

you're done. You need to continue embed these sign symbols, myths into yourself and then when you get into what you're just talking about, the deep mythologies of Osiris set battling Horace. Finally the battle the isis going out and doing the thing, and this going back through and you get, you know, from the Mythrick to Plato to the Orphik

to now you're in the uma Elish and beyond. Like that's how you really get the fine pin details, and your consciousness truly changes and now you formulate a worldview, and then from that worldview you can I think personally, this is the theory Brandonly. Theory is that then now you can see magic in all things, because you're not just some automaton NPC agent Smith. At any time an ideology can imprint you. And then now you're just spewing

nonsense of left or right. But now you're actually able to see the narratives because you can pick apart the deep underpinning of the myth, the magic and the meaning of things. And so I've just love what you're saying because I think as much as I'm all like, you're right, it was bashing over the head. And now look where they're at and they're trying to change the red pill into some training porn. But the idea is that you know, it's like it's like taking this terrible, like this beautiful thing.

Even I like all three. I think I've heard you say you don't really like another two. I don't know, you can well listen. I was a huge William Gibson fan, yeah, okay.

the head with that. But I was also I'm still a very big fan of Dark City, which came on a year before and Matrix sort of I don't know how it happened. It might have just been coincidental, but the Matrix ends up recycling a lot of the ideas from Dark City, which I think is a vastly superior film. But I picked up on all the you know, the queer theory stuff in the in the first Matrix because really, yeah, I thought it was pretty obvious. I know, I did.

I thought it was pretty blatant even then. And you know when that I didn't.

the only, the only Christopher Nolan film that I really like, Amento. Yeah, Which it's funny if you watch Memento, it's kind of like the Matrix in reverse, because the Matrix is all about like im like remembering, you know, It's it's about waking up and remembering, and Memento is about like forgetting and falling asleep. Think about that. Watch those two films together. You'll see, in some very strange way, they're they're like mirror images of each other. I don't know if that's intentional.

But but she has you know, she has sort of like a very butch kind of presentation and and but that but that all comes from Sally Shears in the William Gibson Okay, so and look, William Gibson's just completely I mean he's completely lost his mind. Over the past ten years twenty years or so, he hasn't written anything. He hasn't written anything since. I think the last thing

I enjoyed by him was All Tomorrow's Parties. I read that other trilogy did with like Spook Country and the rest of it, and I thought it was just insanely boring anyway, But that's that kind of ruined the matrix for me because I was just I was too well versed in all the material that they were just completely plagiarizing.

interesting to me that he's that. Because he said it, people associate it with him, and then that is hypercition creating your own great marketing.

I had written I had written there was this. So I was an associate editor on this magazine called Comic Artist back in the day, and I had written this editorial called show me the magic, which had to do with you know, Grant Morrison and Alan Moore, because at that point in time, Omethea had just become what I call theosophical summer camp, where it just become you know, it's it wasn't a story anymore. It was just like, oh, let's walk around through you know, the tarot and and all the rest of it.

reading at the time. But one thing I did want to bring up, and just before I lose my train of thought on this with the X Files, what really I first started to notice was all the mushrooms and LSD and hallucinogens and iboga and so on in the storylines.

And the thing that I began to notice is that they would either put either explicit or very thinly veiled simple about mushrooms, LSD and all the rest of it in this what they call the mythology, right the stories about the alien colonization, or they would have the episode before or after the stories about alien colonization have an explicit context with like I said, I boga, mushrooms and

so on and so forth. And then they even did this one episode about iboga where they explicitly call out MK ultra, right, But they also did another another one, another episode with it's eybotenic acid. I believe that's the the active ingredient in I boga, right, but I think yeah,

And in the episode it's it's mushrooms. So I'm not exactly sure what the context is there, but I started to just go back and realize that the whole all the black oil is a hallucinogen mind control basically trope if you look at it in the context of the stories and all the rest of it, you know, I mean the aliens themselves, the aliens themselves are mushrooms. Now that sounds like, oh my god, what is he talking about?

the storyline. And he's never been shy about you know, that he based his stories on this experience he had at this Navajo Peyoti ritual. So uh, there you go. So but it all ties in, and you know, we were talking about the mystery cults that's all based in hallucinogens. You know, all the Isis and Osire's stuff is all

plucinogenic symbolism. We're seeing this in the news now that the Elsinian mysteries of Demeter and Persephone, they the the kaikon, as it's called, was was actually a derivative of l s A, which is a precursor to LSD. Yeah, so, I mean that's.

and completely off the wall. But like you know, samul Thra Soleusis, I mean, they were very very strict. You would have to fast and you have to study because what it was really about was preparing you, you know, to meet the gods and not have a bad experience. Well you end up meeting you know, the gods or the angels, not the demons, right, And that's really what it was all about. It was about learning to you know, to focus your mind to fast, to purify yourself so

you could enter into this realm. Now that's something you have to be very careful about because we're seeing it all the time, and we're seeing it like in this supercharged THHC. That's that's everywhere. Now you know where you get these? You go to the gas station and get these, you know, Delta nine cubes of a lot of three thousand milligrams per gummy. Oh yeah, you know what I mean.

And you know, people when I bring this up, there are a lot of people who's like, religion is the hallucinogen itself. And I'm like, no, you gotta be careful, you know. I mean, people have been telling you for thousands of years that this isn't a joke. This isn't a game, you know, this isn't recreation. This is really serious. This is where you read, you meet real entities, you know, and real entities get enter into our world through you and these chemicals.

episodes like that throughout the series. But I'm just seeing it more and more, you know, I'm seeing people behaving. Did you see that video that woman who was stabbing that little kid in the parking lot and you just saw the look on her face and just like that is lot out possession. That woman was possessed. And you just see this on an increasing basis. In gosh, do you think and there's anything to do with like, you know, all these drugs being mainstreamed and fed to people who

are ready on the edge, already on the borderline. So again, I get a lot of criticism because people think I'm just being puritanical. I'm not being cured.

I know this territory very well. You know, I know it was completely familiar to me. It was people don't believe me when I say that, but you know, what am I going to do?

this can actually happen. And I do what I do see a correlation of what you're saying. Once he took other things, it was like, this doesn't seem like I see a little bit of a correlation.

all the time. And he and he and that starts playing into this whole a blow where he's seeing you know, demons and so on everywhere it goes that. I can't recommend the film enough. It's not an easy watch. It's gruesomely violence in some some places. But it was based on was it the Bardo? The bar help me out here? Kaiva's and the Tibetan book are the dead? It's what is it? The barto a dole?

or Neptune. And depending on your framing of like the outer three planets and their relationship with the Vita castrology, but yeah, I think it's the same. It's like you're in this kind of interstitial zone. It's not it's not it's not it's not destruction and it's not creation. It's kind of it's in between.

do you understand what I'm saying. And that's something that you see throughout the X Files, ironically, and the other thing I should mention too is that him Robbins is the star of Jacob Sladder and the last person you see on screen in any X Files episode, which is the eleventh season last episode, is his son, Miles Robins, who plays Mulder and Scully's son, who's and he rises up out of the waters, and he he is the new proteus because he's a shape shifter as well, but

he's also psychic, so but he's all he's prophetic, and I don't know, I mean, I wonder how much of that ties into a cargo was saying about the whole influence of Neptune on the pilot episode. Some Well, I guess at that point it was twenty three years earlier, right, that's too Yeah, I mean that seems like so Uranus is the sky.

plays one of the Lone Gunman. If you guys want to talk about that Lone Gunman episode, it said that the CIA would have fortune tellows and astrologers at Hollywood parties back in the early nineties, and one of one of them, you know, it's said to Chris Carter when the show was being developed, you know this is going to be you know, it's going to be a huge success, and all the rest of it kind of makes you wonder though, right, Well, one thing I try to impart

to people because there's this whole and this whole comes from that whole boomer conspiracy world. Oh it's all distraction or whatever. It's like, No, there, these people really are true believers. I think there is I think a grave misconception and it's one of the things I write about, you know, Like I mentioned my first novel, He Will Live Up in the Sky, is that I really wanted

to impart to people. The people who get involved than these kind of programs and stuff when it deals with the paranormal and so on and so forth, are true believers. And I think that's become blatantly obvious now with this whole UFO disclosure run around, you know, I think, you know, it's it's fairly obvious that, you know, people like Jim semi Van and what's his name, Grush, you know, and all these people who come out of the quote unquote

intelligence community, they really are true believers. You know. I don't think they're play acting. The more disturbing truth to me is that they really do believe all this stuff lock stock and barrel, you know, all this UFO lore that has been ceded into the culture by the military since the nineteen forties, and specifically the Navy, you know, talk about Neptune and Proteus, right, and that whole influence is that group Nightcap, which is explicitly cited in the

next Files episode the Executive Committee. We're all Navy and Marine flag officers, you know, which means like you know, commanders, commodores, admirals, generals and so on and so forth. I think there is a misconception that these people aren't true believers, and I think that is a very very dangerous belief.

when we should actually be thinking of these illusions. Are these internal aspects of how we use our perception to understand external events, And so it's such a fascinating thing. Jesus did it when he was, you know, confronted with Satan on the mount and he had to go through the Three trials. Buddha goes through the three trials. I feel like same thing we do when we're going up

against our own delusions. When we take high dosages of entheogens, you go through that first ego death and you're confronted with the great you know, Guardian at the threshold. And

I think that very much relates to alien disclosure. What the X files was constantly trying to ask us about our own paranoid Schitzo understanding about how these things are happening in the world, that we are deluded to think many things and if we can calm those delusions and try to center ourselves through you know, practice of sorts or understanding the synchro mystic events you know, of the

external internal world as they happen. It's just funny how these things continue to spiral out and in together.

our understanding. It's kind of like a Kantean Compernican revolution is where it's like it seems to me that the ideal realm was first created and why we speak about cabbala and missicism magic and then everything stems forth into materiality. And I think about it when we were talking, is like we spend most of our days in the ideal or in the idea spheres, in the imaginal realms. In the imagination, we sleep more than we do anything else. And even when we're walking in the world, in the

material world, we're sleepwalking through our reality. And so to think that materiality is more real than the idea spheres is kind of a deluded take, because of we are within the ideal realms at all times. And then to even say that I am contradicting myself because I don't. I think cartesianism is one of the worst things to happen to us. And so the idea is that we need to merge these two things. And it's really hard

because our language, which is magic. Right, even saying language is magic is getting us away from understanding that all language is metaphor, and so we can understand the metaphors of our own understanding. Is that then we're understanding something.

We're we're merging the body mind back together. And I think that's really important to understand then when disclosure happens, to not believe it, doesn't say it's not happening, but to understand that if we read Jacques Villet, Carl Jung and the ancients and the modern the and the mythologies of our past and present, that they're trying to tell us much of the same thing all the time, is that this is a remembering and you're waking up to

something and to stop sleep walking through through your reality.

we're sort of coming up to the point where all of these late nineties films of living in this sort of unreal world are now coming to fruition, right, So you know, you've got the Matrix movies about this unreal matrix, you've got Dark City, all of these other things are talking about the unreal sort of taking precedent over the reel and trying to find your way out through this maze. So at what point are we going to reach that sort of breaking point? Is it going to be a

positive or a negative thing? Because we have most.

no conceptual they have no inner dialogue real. So I think that it's going to be I don't want to say, like a Dawn of the Dead situation, you know, where we're dealing with masses of zombies and just a few sentient people. I hope we know we're not chased into extinction because it will all fall apart. Then I think it's it's up to the individual. It's up to each individual to tend to their own enlightened. You can't rely on systems anymore, you know, particularly now because all institutions

have been infiltrated, subverted and degraded. Really, I mean all our education system, our religious system, government industry across the board, right, media, it's all been degraded, it's all been co opted. So we can't we're not going to get our power from that, you know, you have to find it somewhere else. And discussions like this I think are a really important part

of that. But just understand that you're almost sort of like putting a target on your forehead because we're dealing with a growing mass of sleepwalkers who don't want to be awakened, who don't even know there is an awakened state, right They're they're totally focused on the scrolling. They can't even focus on a half an hour television program anymore. Attention spans have been just completely shattered on a majority,

I think of the population. So you have to take you have to take responsibility for yourself and I think networking and coalescing and so on, while avoiding creating a new set of institutions, right because whenever you create a set of institutions, those institutions need to be maintained, all right, And the people who are going to come to you to maintain those institutions are going to want to co opt them and you know, bring them into this clive

mind that we're seeing built, okay, on an increasing basis. So it's a it's a weird kind of dance right where you need to. You can't do it alone, you can't work in isolation. But I do think that any time a structure or a system is built, it will be either co opted from within or destroyed from without. I really honestly believe that.

if upsetting them enough, you will be killed. And I think that's really important. Knowing that I'm not saying people are going to be physically killed here, but it's happening. But the idea that further goes is that you're not bringing the light back with you as you go in. You're not bringing the forms back in there as you go in. You are going in there to kind of do the thing. Because the cave is this institutionalized world, the bureaucratic world. It is this that even that we're

doing right now. We're speaking and then we speak in dialogue and dialectic and you know, really, to me, you know, all of Plato's work is what in him, what he's trying to do is he's discussing the orphic mystery traditions, the Pythagorea and mystery traditions and all the mystery traditions that he was a part of at that time frame. And upon doing so, he's teaching people how to philosophize.

And that's why I'm trying That's why for me and my work, I'm like, let's learn kind of Like what you're doing, Chris is like you're like there's this synchronistic events going on. You're reframing people's understanding how to make the connections between as you're always talking about the sirens and the Sirens Call and these things in our music. Two then the X files and our modern myths of today.

And when you can see those from a new perspective instead of just recreationizing them, but seeing them as this grander cyclical pattern, then others can take up their own stand, in their own agency in the world and start asking questions and then have the dialogue, because I think that's something that we need to all get back to, which again, like you said, and I agree, panels like this and all the work that you know, Greg Carlwood and all these different people are doing out in the world is

really important because without this, all people are getting is the modern mainstream media pandering back and forth between that Hegelian dialectic because they don't want to teach people how to think for themselves.

I mean, you can't. You can't take responsibility for somebody else's enlightenment. You know, you can't. You can lead a horse to water, but you can't and make them drink right, or you can't make them think right.

to do the spreadsheets and everything. And the people who do that, quite often are people who are basically broken inside and want to use your structure, your institution, whatever you've built, to subvert it to their weird, suicidal, destructive, apocalyptic ends. And I realize that sounds a bit pessimistic in some ways, but hopefully we can learn or we can develop technologies where these old institutional superstructures can become obsolete.

So it is this time of like changing how we exchange information, changing how we learn things, breakthroughs in science and like humanity and connection because Gemini is like the bridge between the black and the white.

you didn't mention, was it Neptune and aries? Did you mention?

There's some sort of conjunction of something that hasn't happened since like the time of Christ. What was that there's some major alignment or some something.

terms of American history, become aware of. We thought that, you know, there was a reciprocal relationship going on here, but it seems like human resources are more and more used up in the toss to the side, and then we get something else. You brought up naval intelligence, and this is like the original form of intelligence, right, and

in multiple ways. But for society, like you had to have this naval trade network that allowed for the you know, the trade of goods across boundaries using the water as their medium. What we see now going on with UH with Iran is that the naval blockade is sort of

the central focus of society, right. And if you think of water as some sort of a conscious energy, what we're seeing is now this blockade of consciousness and and you know, everybody's sort of being diverted into this path of you know, focusing on on warfare and how can we how can we prop up this failing empire? And another way of putting naval intelligence is om fulo skepsis right,

which would be naval dazing. And this is kind of the naval intelligence that we have now where all of these you know, people are just so hung up on themselves.

and for fifteen years from Marvel Studios. Now, I don't know if you've heard about this, but Disney, who owns Marvel, and that's a whole other story that we can maybe talk about one day, just basically fired everybody. So all the people who are making these movies, creating the concepts for these movies, that were basically keeping the lights on in Hollywood. I mean, Hollywood is rapidly imploding. We're just

unceremoniously let go. And where where's the loyalty? You know, these these these great artists, these great visualizers, these great conceptualists, who earned billions of dollars for this company. It's like, sorry, goodbye, you know, no gold watch, You're done. I mean, I'm sure a lot of them got good severance packages. But I had been aware of this back in twenty twenty. Ironically, you know, the last work I did for Marvel was right before the whole COVID thing, you know, the shutdowns.

In March of twenty twenty. I just finished my last job for Marvel just as that kicked in, and that was for the Eternals movie. And that was the movie that basically broke their backs.

find their ass with both hands anymore. But I knew six years ago that it was over, you know, because I had that I had a different vantage point. Remember that scene in Mothman Prophecies, or like, you know, see that man up there cleaning the windows. You know, if there's an accident down the street, he can see. It doesn't make him gone, It just means he has a different vantage point on what's going on. And a lot of people are like, oh, you're crazy, you don't know

what you're talking about. Oh It's like, well, maybe I do know what I talk about because I work for this company for twenty five years. Maybe I have a little bit more insight than you do, miss or random blogger nowhere person. But anyhow, I mean I knew that it was over, right, I knew that it was over because I wasn't getting the call. You know, my phone wasn't ringing. They weren't because there was no work to

be done because the Canarian. The coal mine for the collapse of the Marvel Universe was the collapse of the work I was doing, which is licensing and merchandising for the films and so on. Because nobody wanted the toys anymore. No, no, you know, kids did not want eternals toys. I mean that you can still find them, like you know, these

clothes out stores and everything. But that was that's to me, reminds me what Kay was talking about, because that's the whole woke thing, and that was I don't know if that's Aturnian or Tunian or whatever it is, but that was very much like, you know, people wanted to jump on this bandwagon. They didn't realize that the bandwagon was headed for a cliff that they were all going to go over, which you know is exactly what happens. So I'm not exactly sure what the you know, the astrology

on that would be myself. But I saw it happened, and it's exactly, you know, ties into what what Kayla was saying before. So anyhow, and of course now they you know, the same company Disney owns the X Files, and they bought Fox and they're doing this whole reboote that I know is just not gonna fly. People have asked me about it. I'm just like, no, this this isn't. This isn't. This is an exercise from the last regime,

the Bob Eiger regime. Hopefully they won't do too much damage to the to the franchise, because I'd like people will continue buying my book.

our culture? And maybe, like these people, you know, destroying it is like giving an opportunity for new growth and culture that we need or something.

the sixties, seventies and eighties. These ideas, you can't just rip them out of the time period in which they were created and to the conditions and situations and realities that they spoke to and just expect, you know, oh, we'll give them a modern gloss and it'll be business as usual. It doesn't work that way, you know, things, mythology is not forever. This is something that I very strongly believe is that myths are part of the worlds

in which they arise. Okay, now there are universal ideas and concepts and impulses beneath those myths, But I'm talking about the structure the outer shell of the myth is created for particular people in particular times. Okay, they're not just it's not like, you know, like a widget, you can just change it out right, you can just put a coat of paint on it and resell it. It doesn't work that way.

I think it's interesting. And I myself am trying to push the aon of anime weebdom because I find that the East and Japan, South Korea, China are the anime that's the new modern myth. And even Jim Lee has come out and said anime is crushing us, Manga is crushing us right now because they're actually not being pushed

by a woke agenda. They're come up with new ideas that are still hitting on old Shinto or old Japanese or even old Western alchemical and all these different mythologies of the West, but they're doing it in a new way that's capturing the attention of the youth. And it you know, and just you know, it tookt me wrong. The first thing. A lot of people think of and think of anime as that web style of you know,

all the more lewd things that you get. But there are brilliant, beautiful changing of how to take a modern individual who suffers and bring them into the wider scheme of things so they can transcend their lower states and reach higher divine states through suffering and that passion and through trying to the old be Bushido code that I will die daily and upon doing so, I will alchemize myself and transcend my current state to be the highest

individual that I can and bring my friends along with me.

that I talk about all the time. People have probably heard me say this is that I think CGI killed the magic of the movies, right. I think that when you look at CGI, no matter how beautiful it is, there's something in your mind's eye that realizes that it has no atomic reality. It's just pure electrons. Now, you go back to the movies that I grew up on, right, and some of the you see some of the like in camera of puppet puppetry and all these kind of

effects and miniatures and everything. Some of it can seem pretty laughable now. But you didn't. You didn't think that. I mean, it used to be going to the movies was like going to temple, you know, it was like stepping into this temple of the mind, of the imagination. And I think that CGI broke that packed with us. You know. I remember seeing the first Blade Runner when it came out. The weekend it came out, and I

was basically a religious experience for me. And all those miniatures of the city and all the rest of it, and the spaceships flying around and everything going on in that movie. People might look at it now and think, well, yeah, it's a little dated. I didn't think that. I was, like I am in that reality like you would not believe, you know, I'm sixteen years old. Actually no, it's still fifteen. You know. My mind is still just totally pumped in prime for this right to step into this other world.

And what was the other film? Oh this is good. Nobody's heard of this movie. But when when me and my friends were kids, we're all just total delinquents, and we used to have this thing where like, let's get as high as we can before we sneak into the movies. And there was this movie that nobody's ever heard of. You can probably look it up. It's called Rock and Roll nineteen eighty three Don Bluth animation film. When I went back and looked at it, it just looked ridiculous

to me. But my brain's in that state it was. I was in it. I was in that world, you know, I entered into that world and I can't remember, I cannot remember the last time I had that experience at the movements, And I think CGI has a lot to do with that. You know, it doesn't, it doesn't capture you because somewhere you know, it's it's unreal. So that's sort of a I don't know if that has to do with the X file. Well, I'll tell you exactly

what it has to do with the X Files. I did not like the feature film, the first feature film at all. It took. What made the X Files magic was the intimacy of it. It was very intimate. You know, it's this intimate relationship between this man and this woman suffering and struggling in the dark, you know, out away from the public eye. And when there's giant spaceships and all and buildings blowing up and all the rest of it,

that broke that compact of intimacy. You know, I don't know, I don't know how to explain it, you know, to give you an effective metaphor for that, But it's it's, you know, it's like when your favorite band becomes popular because they change the style, right, they sell out. I kind of felt like, you know, the X Files kind of sold out for that movie. I mean, I love the second movie, which everybody seems to hate. But that's the whole other discussion. Anyhow, any other questions.

which is what both Pluto and Uranus can do. But I think Pluto actually allows for a kind of recreation of the not the past, not a return in like an Evolian sense, but perhaps maybe something new, a progressive, a on and not in the political sense, but just something like a way to move forward with the movement of the cosmos, or some sorrow rather than you know, be referential to like a mythical as I call it.

X Men. You know, all these just archaic and you know, anachronistic ideas from a completely different world, a completely different reality. We can't let go of them, right, I mean, the corporations can't let go of them because they don't have anything new to replace them with. And then the fans are so emotionally invested in these characters they have to die, you know, they can't just be the walking dead forever. You know, and again I'm totally against this whole of anybody,

anybody doing like a new X file series. It's like, no, that belongs to the nineties. Let it go, leave it in the past. Right. We have to have like new stories to tell each other. If we just keep telling each other the same stories, I mean, that's why things

are just so depressing and static. You know. I consider myself incredibly blessed, you know, to be like this weirdo kid who lived for pop culture when you know, in the seventies and eighties, right when when things were new and exciting all the time, and it was like new ideas kind of you know, like I said, being fifteen years old going to see Blade Runner, being ten years old and going to see the first Star Wars movie. It's just like you can't replicate that. It's like stuck

chasing that dragon. It really is. It really is an addiction, you know, and it's like you'll you'll never equal that first high, You'll never equal that first rush that you got from seeing Star Wars or whatever film. I don't know the answer to it, and I just unfortunately, I think the economics of it don't pan out anymore. I mean, hope. I mean, I know a lot of people are very

down on an AI, and I completely understand why. But I think the only hope is is somebody in there, some kid in their basement, you know, tapped into whatever clod I don't even know whatever animation AI and having something new to say. You know, that's that's the only way out of this mess. We have to let all these old stories die because they are smothering us, you know, they're smothering us. It's to me, it does feel very Saturnian.

It is a very set you know, like Saturnian energy, just like pinning you down in place right and just sort of smacking you around. We have to let go of that. We need we need fresh ideas and fresh energies, and we certainly need them more in more than just pop culture, you know, we need them in our governments and our institutions and our economics and all the rest of it. We need like truly new ideas, you know, like socialism is a not a new idea. It's actually

a very very ancient idea, you know. I mean ancient sumer was actually a communist state, you know, it was a communist theocracy. Those aren't new ideas we need, like real new ideas and fresh thinking.

war in heaven between Draco and Sepias. Right, Oh, don't get me strong on that. We'll never get out of here.

this gonzo radio thing. You can also check me out of Threshold Saints and the Gray Lodge, which is our group show all speculative Cabala, speculative Cali Chakra and speculative Narcissism, so we do Friday night Nastic Mass.

If you want to listen to us for two to three hours jabber on about certain topics, that's what we do. Ethan Indogo and I just did a show. We're both tai Chi martial art practitioneers. We did one part one, We're gonna do part two next week, and then we're gonna talk about the Dow the following week, most likely coming up on my show. I have dropping a Sarah Jane's Dream Mysteries that I just did. We went deep

for a few hours. It was fantastic. The Great Gordon White is coming on at the end of the month, which I'm really excited to chat with him because I like you, Chris, like Greg. I've been listening to you guys for years and it's kind of like talking to the people that have helped also, not just mold, but people that I'm like, oh my god, other people think like I do. Thank fucking heavens. As well. As there's a book it's called Black Pilgrimage David Beth he's the publisher.

He owns the publishing company fone Press. He's coming on and I'm going to be dropping that that book is fantastic. So yeah, everyone just head on over there. That's my shtick again. Thank you Chris, thank you Nick, and again everyone out there subscribe. I can share to all of these people. Head over to Kiverros eleven thirty three. She's the best astrologer out there. Book yourself with her if you want to figure out how your life works in the Grand majesty of this celestial.