You see, something's going to happen. What's going to happen? What help? Welcome to the Occult Rejects. Tonight on the Occult Rejects, we welcome viv Scarlet star and occult practitioner, esoteric voice and creator whose work touches shadow work, ritual symbolism, and the deeper currents of spiritual transformation. We're getting into her path, her philosophy, the meaning behind you, what that will and whether Thelema is essential to her work or
simply one thread and a much larger tapestry. This one goes into magic, identity, discipline, and what it really means to walk in occult path. But before I introduce her, I would also like to make a few announcements. On Saturday, April twenty fifth, the Southeastern Masonic Symposium is happening at Asheville Masonic Temple at eighty Broadway Street in Asheville, North Carolina. I will be there in person, so come on down and meet me and the rest of the crew and
the people that will be speaking there. We will have John Michael Greer, he will be there. We got Colin konk Wright from American ESO Terek and he's been on the show numerous times. We got the man himself, Ike Baker. I'm pretty sure you all know who he is already, and we got Tom Carter and so yeah, if you're available and you can make it, I will be there.
Come on down. It will be a blest. And I also want to remind people about the website if you're into reading, we have tons of information by multiple contributors and we got t shirts up on the site if you're interested. And fun fact, the art is all based on the eyeball. All right, that's enough out of me, and I will introduce Viv Viv what is going on? How will you please let everybody know anything that you'd like to promote? Plug let everybody know what's up.
Hi, thank you so much for having me on here. I'm Viv. I'm a magical practitioner. I've just been getting back into I guess what you'd call making content or whatever. So if you guys want to follow me on Instagram, TikTok, threads, it's Viv dot Scarlet Star And starting in the summer, I'm going to be making YouTube videos again Scarlet Star Synctum and I'm also thinking about making a substack so
stay tuned for that. I love to write some of my favorite and I think it's something I'm good at, so I just want to kind of ease into that space as well.
That's great. Hopefully in a couple of years we'll have you back on for releasing a book or something.
Hopefully, Man, you.
Have something coming out on Wiser and Llewellen.
That's a dream of mine for sure.
That's awesome. Nice. Nice. So you did mention now your YouTube You used to do this prior in the past.
Correct, Yes, yes, I did. Yeah, I did YouTube for a few years. I stopped for a little bit because life just got really crazy. And I'll kind of get into that a little bit as I talk about like my magical path and stuff like that, because it all correlates a little bit. But I do really want to get back into it. I miss it a lot.
Nice. Nice, all right. So I guess, for like the listeners for people just meeting you for the first time, who is viv and what led you into I guess this path or even led you into the occulta magic to begin with.
Oh okay, so there's a lot with that. So I would call myself a witch, a pagan magical practitioner and Athelamite. My magical work really centers a lot around nature haikat as well as a big influence of the Hekatail by Jack Brayle, big influence in my practice, and more recently, i've, you know, kind of delved into the path of Thelema as well and become really interested in that and more
ceremonial magic stuff. But my experience comes from witchcraft and paganism, and I kind of had a stint with demonolotry as well for a couple of years as well, and it was a part of my practice that I needed at the time, but it didn't really stick with me, and I ended up kind of delving into filima and how I got into this stuff. I was super young. I was twelve or thirteen, and I grew up a Christian and Muslim. It was kind of a different upbringing from
most people. My mom was Muslim and I lived with her, and at a certain point when I was young, for a few years we lived in a village in England that didn't have any mosques or anything like that, or any Muslims at all, So we ended up going to church and I was sort of exposed to that, and my dad was an atheist and would kind of have these like debates when I was a kid, but he always kind of encouraged me to think critically and to question. And I started to question organized religion when I was
about twelve. And then I ended up having a recurring dream and I saw in my dream, I was in a forest and there was this meadow, and I saw this man and just something about him felt divine to me, but I couldn't quite place my finger on what it was. And the last couple of times that I had the dream, he turned into a stag and he just went off into the forest. And I had no idea what to make of this. The only you know, religious texts that I was exposed through were the Bible in the Koran,
so I thought, this, this is saint? Is this like what is going on a prophet? And I ended up doing some research and learned about Carnunos Horned God and he is still, you know, a god that I worship that i'd consider my patron. And I actually got my
first tattoo in honor of Carnunos. It's a pair of antlers of vines and verbena flowers and that was really what got me into it, and then I kind of started off with Wika and then I kind of segued into just calling myself a witch and a pagan and that was how it all began.
That's awesome. What was there, like a specific moment or an experience or maybe an encounter. Maybe it was what you were just saying now that made occultism real for you instead of just like interesting, Like was there a moment and you're like, oh, this is going to be like my thing?
Like yeah, I feel like there's so many of those for me, like throughout my path. I think I think that recurring dream was sort of just the beginning, but I still didn't really know what was going on, and I was super young, you know, I was quite sure, but I experience it, Yeah, I was. I was just a little baby Viv. But I'd had so many experiences
since then. Just kind of experiencing divinity, I guess has been a big thing for me in my work with Hikate, just having synchronicities that I couldn't explain otherwise, and things that I that other people might call coincidence if they weren't in my shoes and just kind of these recurring things. And I also, I guess my work with Hikate and cardinos and just spirits as well and stuff like that. Just feeling like I was getting these sort of messages
that weren't coming from my brain. That was a big thing for me, you know. And it's like it's hard to explain to other people because then they'll tell you, oh, well, you know, you're just you're probably yeah, you're just creating, or you're actually having these thoughts, but you're telling yourself that you're not. But when you know, you know, you know,
when you have those experiences, you know. And so I think just all of these experiences combined and then actually having spells and rituals work and create tangible changes in my life that I can trace directly to what I did, that was a huge thing for me as well.
I know you said that you seem to have kind of I guess got interested more in ceremonial in thelema, which I would think thilema, I mean, it's kind of ceremonial. If you're going by stuff Crawley suggests you to do, it would be very ceremonial. When you first got into this stuff, I guess like what kind of what were your practices like then, you know, from from the beginner up until you got into the LIMA.
Yeah, I've got through a lot of different phases as a practitioner. Like I kind of mentioned earlier, I started off with Wicca, and not obviously, you know, I wasn't doing like Gardenerian Wicca at twelve years old, but just some of the more basic stuff that people start with
that would be a little crazy. And then witchcraft and paganism i'd say, like kind of eclectic witchcraft for for a while and just learning about that and in the basics of energy work and spell work and you know, bringing about change into your life through you know, the in the microcosm and into the macrocosm. And then I kind of had a stint with demonolotry for a couple of years, and that was kind of a thing I
got interested in. But thinking back now, I think what really drew me to demonolotry was the almost like ceremonial ish aspect of the rituals. And I was kind of into the sort of like what you call left hand path current at the time, and so that kind of you know, that really interested me. And I stuck with that for a couple of years. But I think what drew me to Phelima was, I don't know, it was something that just kind of happened. I knew about Filima.
I had friends online and you know, like mutuals and stuff like that, who Arethelamites. I was exposed to some of the ideas, but I didn't really dive into it until I became more interested a couple of years ago, and then I didn't really deeply dive until more recently, like a few months ago. But something about the imagery really really really just like I don't know, it really stuck with me and it drew me in. And I can trace that back to my childhood as well, with like,
for example, the Egyptian stuff. My dad would take me to a museum in England and there was a section that was like just ancient Egypt and it was super immersive. There's all this ancient Egyptian stuff and like you could like touch stuff, you could look at all this stuff, and I would literally spend hours in that little section.
And then I was also always really interested in like Masonic imagery and stuff like that, and yeah, that kind of thing, that kind of segued into ceremonial magic and felima and that kind of symbolism, and just something about the energy and the current drew me in.
When you were first thinking about I guess like thelema getting into it. The reason I'm asking is for some reason, a comment that somebody had said to me went through my head while you were talking. I think it was a Serena Serena Saint Sinclair. I was on her show, and she had asked me if I consider myself a Theelamite, and I was like, yeah, I would, and but I forgot. I was like, I said, I'm almost like like it's almost like embarrassing sometimes to say that. And she had
said that. I think Mavis had kind of like said the same thing, that it's just like the way people look at it, you're almost like embarrassed to say that you are because of how fucked up people I guess
just view it. And so like when you I remember, even for me before I even't went to like an Oto lodge, you know, when I was thinking about going, I was just like, if I make this my thing, how do I tell people if they have to ask, Because you almost feel kind of like did you feel like that when your friends getting into Selma You're like, wait, if I get into this, I don't tell any of my friends I do this. I think I'm crazy. I've fucked up.
No. Absolutely, I get that so much, and like it's it's kind of like I have a little bit of experience with that with like telling certain people like, oh, I'm a witch and then they're like, but with Felima even more so because it's it's so much more niche and like people don't know what it is. Uh, And I still kind of struggle with that, especially people who aren't into like the magical stuff and stuff like that, and they ask me what I believe in, and I'll
be completely honest. Sometimes I just say I'm spiritual and I leave it at that. Especially living in Texas, it's like some people you don't want to, you know, open that candle. Worms. Yeah, tough. It's rough because it's like people either don't know what it is or they think you're great. And there's even people in the magical community to who kind of demonize Selima. You know, if you say Salima or Crowley, they kind of they don't like that.
So I really think for me, It depends on, like the audience i'm speaking to.
Yeah, I know exactly what you mean totally. Oh did you ever make it to that library?
Not yet? Crazy week last week, but things are kind of slowing down for me this week, so I'm thinking maybe on Thursday I'll head up there.
I'm telling you, you check out those notes, you're going to be you're going to see a total different side. I think it Crawley. You're gonna be like, Wow, this guy really isn't fucking around.
Yeah, I'm excited to go and check that out.
You're gonna be like, Yo, his book is just ciphered you guys doing the math and everything on the side. Yeah, it's pretty wild different. You mentioned and I've never actually heard of this. What did you say? Demonolotry is something to that effect. Can you explain that a little bit for the listeners and myself.
Yeah, So demonolotry, it's it's a practice, and it kind of got a little more popular a couple of years ago, but it's still kind of niche, and it's basically, rather than working with demons in the solemonic magic framework, it's more so I don't like to use the term worshiping when it comes to that, because a lot of like left hand path people don't like that term and they get a little like like, oh, I don't worship them.
But I also don't like the term working with even though sometimes because that's the only way people you know, you know what I mean, like online, that's the way people talk about it.
But I'm utilizing demons right now.
I'm utilizing demons. I guess. I guess it's similar to like how you would appro which magical work with gods, but with demons, and so some people some people love it, some people hate it. I think I had pretty good results with it, and there's there's books about it. But my kind of issue with that is was that I did feel like some of the books I read kind of claim the super ancient like historical lineage, when I
didn't really feel like that was the case personally. But it is interesting and I think it's sort of a different way of working with demons, and I had I had good experiences with it, and yeah, that's kind of that's kind of all it is.
If you don't you don't have to get specific if you don't want to. I'm just a little bit more interested, like how, like, you know, how how is this done? Or is there certain maybe demons you can even give names of. I'm just like really interested like this whole and like, I guess maybe what were you working towards too? If you don't want.
Yeah, absolutely So. A couple of the ones that I personally would like work with, for lack of a better term, was Bill and Stolus was another one. So Stolenus is like all about knowledge and kind of all these kinds of things. And rather than like doing solomonic magic, I would like cast a circle and there's a certain way that you do it where you call upon demons that are associated with the different direction, and I would like
have incenses going for them. I would have candles, I would have specific herbs and stuff like that, and I would like write my petition or whatever it was, and I'd also do like a lot of deep meditation, you know, kind of connect with that spirit and that energy, and you know, at the end, I burned that petition, probably leave them an offering of course, and just close that out. So pretty basic, but it was I felt like it was effective, and I what kind of I felt like
they were good for my personal development. So that was one thing that I did work with them for my personal development, and also stuff like bringing in abundance, bringing in prosperity. With Stoless, it was more like knowledge and kind of facilitating that and like bringing in new opportunities for that into my life and success and things like that.
I like how you actually like cool the quarters and you had like the whole setup. I mean it's that. Yeah, I was getting ceremonial or ritual already, you.
Know exactly, and I think that's part of what really drew me to it. So then when I started reading more about ceremonial magic and getting more into that, I was like, this is also kind of what I've been looking for. And at that point I was kind of moving away from the infernal energies and those kinds of current, not because I thought they were suddenly bad or anything like that, but I just had different kind of energies coming into my life and different things I was drawn to,
and and kind of Thelema factored into that. And funny enough, when I did get into Selima, like after that my entire life turned upside down and it was kind of a rough period, But after that my life just got so much better.
I got into my life turned upside down.
Yeah, I cropped that all, you know.
No, I get it though. I get it though. Oh I uh. When you were first getting into this stuff, was there any like certain uh, I guess authors or specific people that maybe well, you know, books, teachers or traditions that kind of you know, hit you hard, or that you know kind of rang with you. You know that that you gravitated towards you, like they got something I want to hear or you're into.
Oh, that's a good question. Have I have such a big collection. I'm looking at it right now. One that I mentioned before we started the show was The Heck of Town by Jack Rayle. This is like my holy Grail. I love it. It's my favorite book in the world. I bought this from my friend and it's really influenced me as a practitioner in my work with Kikat and just in the past couple of years since I bought it.
And you know, it's a grimoire that you work through and it's very very effective, very intense energies, you know, with Hikat. But this is one of my favorite ones going into Felima. I mean, other than like Curly obviously David Shoemaker. I loved his work. Yeah, I read Living Salima. I bought Way of the Will. Actually I bought it at Atlantis Bookshop in London, and I was so excited to go there because it's such a historical place, you know, like I'm in the same place as Crowley and Gardener
and you know, it's amazing. And then Matt Orrin's Psychic Witch and Mastering Magic. I think those are great books. I really enjoyed those. Jason Miller his books, Wow, his.
Name in a minute.
Yeah, I love who else? Who else? Freighter Ud had a couple. Really enjoyed those as well. I mean there's just so many. There's so many. I really have to like go through my whole collection. Oh, Jason Mankey, I enjoy his books more like on the witchcraft side of things, and oh man, I have so many.
What was the uh I guess what was the first? Uh, first Croly book you ever picked up?
First Crowley book was, oh god, the Book of the Boss. I had no idea what's going on? I was like, oh, like it was. I thought the prose was beautiful and like I did feel you know, I liked reading it. But I was. I was a little confused. And then after that magic and theory and practice and that was a little more you know, practical.
I guess you could say, yeah, I totally you totally get it. Yeah. I think the Book of the Low was my first thing. Everybody in too, and I was like, what the fuck did I just read?
What the fuck is going on?
Yeah, it's like, like, I mean, it is what it is. I guess, like when you're reading New Eat and by the time you get to the end and you're getting like, you know, Jesus's eyes are getting caloughed out, or like what the fuck happened? You know? And I even think that is all just symbolic anyway. I don't think it's literal, but.
A lot of curs.
Writing oh yeah, yeah, yeah yeah. So, uh, when you describe when you describe yourself as a Thelamite or or is Thelema, I mean you kind of answered already it was just the Lema one influence among several I think you kind of answered this already.
Yeah. I feel like I'm I'm the kind of person who likes to draw from multiple things, multiple sources, and my path is definitely very like multifaceted in that way, So I think Thelma is a thread in that, but I think it's a major thread running through it now or it's becoming that. So it's definitely my biggest focus right now compared to everything else. So Felima's what I'm reading about, Fellina's what I'm studying. You know, the kind of rituals I'm learning and doing are kind of part
of that that current. So it's a thread, but it's out a major influence and I think that will only grow over time.
Do you do you happen to do rush?
Yes? Yeah, I missed a couple in there, but I love it. You know, an interesting thing I've noticed too is that I've I crave being in the sun, like ever since I started doing it every day, I'm like, I need. I just feel a lot more connected to that solar energy than I used to because you know, I was very lunar. I mean it was very lunar very you know, night moon, and it's kind of changed the way I feel a little bit.
So it's interesting. Do you actually go outside to do it?
Yes? Well, I try to not all of them because like sometimes I'm at work or but whenever I can I do. That's my favorite way to do it, like in the morning.
No, I think that's actually very key to it, not till I get off on like a weird science tangent. But like you know, I've noticed in Will somebody else actually pointed it out to me, so I can't say I figured it out. Lisa who used to be on the show. Uh, she was like, you know, into science, and she was getting a pH d. She was into
all that stuff. And she had said that if you were to go look at the sun at all those times that he has you do these, it would actually prime your pineal gland to be at like optimal working. So I'm wondering, like, if you do do that without even just making I mean this sounds grate for you anyway, but I'm just wondering, like, does is that actually creating a difference in feeling too and making you feel better and all that.
Yeah, that's really fascinating actually how to do outside as much as possible and see, because that's really interesting to think about.
I actually do think, believe it or not, I do think that guy might have been into science and just didn't put it in plain times.
Yeah, I think so. And like even his approach and then his writings. There's a lot of like healthy skepticism and scientific method with recording your rituals and recording your meditation stuff like that. So I think you're on something there.
Did you know did you do the star Ruby or you know of the Star Ruby?
I would assume, right, well, the Star Ruby, I don't do it currently, but that's something that is like on my list.
Oh yeah, that's I mean, that's a whole other language. You got to learn to say. Yeah, yeah, it took me to memorize it. The reason why I brought that up is that I even and then I'll get off the whole science thing. But there's a part when you're acting like you're I guess isis holding horus and breastfeeding the child and again like it just mean sound crazy, but it's true when you go to breastfeed the child,
the mother goes to breastfeed the child. I think it might be in the colossrum that like thin liquid at the beginning of the milk that actually makes a connection between the mother and the child's pinilga and it tells the child like where it is, where it is on the like the you know, what season it is, what time it is, where it's located on the earth.
All this weird stuff. So there's actually something transferred. And I was just like, did he know that? Like, I don't know. Yeah, I don't know, but may have. I'm given him too much credit, but I've just thought it to really wonder with some of this stuff.
Wow, that's that's a rabbit hole I'm gonna have to go down.
Yea, it is. It definitely is. I guess I was asking to you a little bit about rush. The reason I even brought that up at first, What does your what does your practice look like today? Daily? So I'm assuming rush is part of it daily practice.
That's been a big thing for me to really be kind of disciplined with. So the morning, I do rash, I do the LB RP, and I do meditation. I do like a mindfulness meditation, but I kind of switch it up sometimes as well visualization and stuff like that, and I like to pull Tarot card for the day. And I also I make protection oil like this protection oil like for spiritual protection against that you will and that kind of thing. Put that on kind of visualize
the sphere or protection around me. Just to start my day, and then beyond that I do obviously I do rush like noon and dusk and midnight as well, and that's kind of the extent of my daily practice. Also writing down my dreams, that's been something I've been doing as well, and I have noticed a huge difference in how much I'm able to recall, So that's been good.
Yeah, that was something that I've even noticed, and I had somebody tell me the same thing, because I was always like, I really don't remember my dreams too much. Like start writing it down and you're realized all of a sudden you could start remembering more.
To God, It's true, absolutely, And I actually read something kind of sciencey about this. Your dreams don't get in your long term memory. From what I read, your dreams don't get stored in your long term memory. They get stored in your short term memory. So you know, when you're in ground sleep and so when you wake up, if you write down the dream and you think about it immediately, then you kind of store it in your
long term memory or or else it disappears. And I was like, oh, that is interesting.
Now when you said you also, I guess kind of like visualize like a protective bowl around. You said something around that. Do you have you ever done the middle pillar before?
I have, yes, And that's again that's something I want to incorporate into my daily or like switch up from doing the OLBRP as well. Yeah, that's and I love the kind of visualization aspect and the energy where yeah it.
Yeah, when you mentioned visualization and then like meditating and stuff, that made me think of that because it is a meditation that if you do it what they're telling you know, you will stop visualizing things and all this stuff going around you kind of like a bubble. Yeah. I think it's a great meditation to visualize stuff too.
I agree. That's a big part of my practice and a big part of what I've been practicing recently as well, and just kind of always Yeah. Absolutely, And I think it transfers from my witchcraft stuff to my alima stuff really well as well, because it's just a big overarching thing. And I think that applies to all magical practice because at the end of the day, so much of it is energy work and visualization. Yeah.
No, I think just my opinion, I think when it comes into magic, I do think kind of being able to close your eyes and visualize things or create your own images is very important. That's just my opinion. So as soon as you said that, I was like, oh, nice, because I was big into that.
Yeah, it's important.
Now I know you're also one thing too that I wanted to ask. When you do your stuff, if you're going to do a spell or ritual whatever you call it, do you do you go by like lunar tiny lunar timing or planetary forces or anything like that.
Yeah. I do like to do for the lunar timing and stuff like that, like waxing, waning moon, full moon, on the dark moon, I do all my hikate stuff, and I'll do meditation and sometimes it's it's intense, but but I love that. Uh. And I do my full moon, my my waxing waning stuff, and then planetary timing. I like that as well. It's not always practical, you know, if you have a full pall lot, but when you
can it's great. But even just doing something on the day of the week associated with that planet, I like doing that as well. But if I can do it like on the planetary hour, I love that.
Nice. See I think I'm not sure, Like you know, people who are may not be into the stuff that listened to the show. That's more of a thing I've been trying to like ask some of the guests just to kind of hammer a point that I don't know if a lot of people realize. Like even the moon, depending on if it's waxing and waning, is also you know, I guess the thing that you work with a deal with.
So yeah, absolutely, yeah, waxing when you want to kind of increase something and bring stuff in and waiting for when you want to shed and.
Release, Yeah, banish or in vogue kind of too.
Yeah, yes, yes, absolutely uh. And I like working with the like I said earlier, dark moon energy with Hikata, I think that's really good for shadow work and for maybe delving into some deep stuff that you might be avoiding, because I definitely have those themes come up. My last one, my last meditation I did with Hikata after leaving her an offering and praying to her and everything on the Dark Moon, I really ended up confronting my fear of death, and I had this kind of like looming fear of
anxiety for like the next two days. But as I processed it mentally and like worked through it. I kind of became okay with it, and that was really interesting as well. And it coincided with some things in my personal life as well, kind of related to death, so it was it's kind of interesting to see how those things come into play.
It's kind of interesting the whole death aspect. That's a very cool I think that's a lot. I was going to ask, and you kind of just brought it up already. Now shadow work, What role does shadow work play in your path? Because I know you do speak on that and I know you are into.
It, so yeah, I think it's super important. I think that I do think that for you know, people with kind of heavier trauma and stuff like that, I think it's good to work with a therapist, like actual professional can guide you through that. I myself have also been to therapy, you know, and I think that's really useful for anybody actually, not just people Trump. I think everybody should do that if they have the means, if they're
able to at some point. But shadow I think it's I think it's a great tool for self development and exploration. I think knowing yourself, like know thyself, that is so important as a magical practitioner, as a spiritual person or
as a person in general. So I think that it's something that's not it's not easy, but it's something that is important to do, and you know, facing our fears, understanding our flaws for lack of a better word, and understanding the kind of influences from our past that shape why we do what we do, why we say the things we say, why we treat people in our lives the way that we do treat them, Because every single one of us has something that you know, affects how
we show up for ourselves and for other people. And so I think through that is so so important and you'll be so much better for it as a person.
I totally totally agree. Do you think, like as a magician or a ceremonial magician, do you think that is something that's actually supposed to be incorporated in their work, is actually shadow work and working on themselves.
Yeah, I think so, And I think it can take many different forms, but I think that at least self development in general the form of therapy, but just like delving into your psyche and really understanding yourself, I think for ceremonial magician even is important and I think also like talking about filima, for example, because such a big
part of it is our spiritual development. But before we can fully develop spiritually, also have to, like the Maslows hierarchy of needs, you know, we have to kind of take care of ournies as well, and that's a good place for us to start. So I do think, like I personally would say that that's the thing all magicians should do and all magical practitioners because it'll it'll make your magic stronger, it will make you a better person.
And how do you tell? How do you tell? Like I guess maybe the difference between intuition, projection and wishful thinking.
Oh oh wow, that's a good question. It's a difference between intuition projection and wishful thinking.
That's a tough one, even thinking like if I were to answer that, I'm like, fuck, that's a tough question. I'm sorry.
I can't even always tell the difference. I'm like, do they hate me? Or is my intuition telling me something? But that that is a really good question, and I don't know if I can give the best answer to that without thinking on it first, you know, But I do think that I think part of that is also
like going back to shadow work. I think understanding our own tendencies and our own insecurities can help with that, because, for example, if you have certain insecurities that make you automatically think, oh, this person hates me, and you do some introspection and thinking on that, and you kind of understand, oh, this is something that I tell myself because maybe as a child I was ostracized a lot in school or something like that, and you can kind of stop projecting
that on other people and kind of understand, oh, that's not my intuition telling me that. That's me projecting my past experiences onto other people who don't hate me. So I think I think that's a big part of it, is kind of understanding yourself and kind of what's going on up here.
No, I think it was Actually you answered that really good. Actually I totally know what you were getting. I would even say sometimes I think like, uh, like sometimes like for myself, i'd even catch it like that's just my ego trying to preserve some shit. Yeah, And sometimes I think, like we were talking about before, I guess kind of like like a thing popping into your head. I thought, uh, sometimes like when I would get those, like some random
thought that would pop into my head. I'd be like, oh, maybe that I should listen to, you know, because it always seems to be like one of the more honest ones, Like I wasn't trying to mind fuck myself and give myself an answer. I wanted to hear, you.
Know, absolutely like over time that discernment gets.
Better too, Yes, yes, yes, nice. Nice. Have you ever had an experience that you couldn't, like really rationally explain that kind of your worldview?
Yeah, I've had that happen before. I don't know what this experience changed my worldview, because I already believe in spirits, the spirit world and stuff like that. But I did have kind of a spooky experience I like to tell people about and that I could not rationalize at all. So quick story time. I was with my dad and as you guys can probably tell by now, me and my dad are closed because I brought him up a few times. But I visited him in England, or I
tried to, like every year or so. And one year we were at Abury for the summer solstice and there's a stone circle there, Apriy stone Circle, but they have like the summer Solstice festival, so we went to that the night before and then the day of we're just like exploring. April's is the day of the solstice, and we ended up going to this neolithic barrier too, and we like, on our way there, there's this like big
flock of curls like flying above us. No big deal, whatever happens, and then we walk into the tomb and the first thing and there's like these little rooms, I guess you would say, like I don't know, little sections. And the first thing I noticed was that there were birds nesting there, and they were behaving very strangely, not like any normal bird out in the wild. You could walk up to them and they would just stare at
you like they were alive. But they would just stare at you and just look at you like they were scared of you. They didn't fly away, nothing like that, and almost like they were in the days. It was really weird. I don't know if there's some kind of scientific reason for this, but it was very odd. And then me and my dad walked further into the tomb and like I was stone called stone cold, sober mind you, no drugs, no alcohol.
And.
I started feeling woozy and just seeing these like purple kaleidoscopic shapes. I did not take shrooms, so nothing. And later on my dad told me he saw a woman, like a figure of a woman crying, like on the QVE floor. And he's like a skeptic too. He's not like, oh ghosts like he's he's he's a skeptic, like I said earlier, like growing up he was an atheist. He's
kind of more agnostic now. And I just had the feeling that we have to get out of there, but I also felt like there's I just remember thinking this is some kind of like pootal to the other world or something like that. And we ended up leaving and we were like booking it to our airbnb and just like running through these cornfields and our airbnb was on a farm, and this is kind of a funny part. As soon as we like got onto the property, these floodlights came on and we were like screaming because we
were sold. Here was like an episode of Scooby Doo. And then we like ran up to our airbnb and we went inside, but more weird shit happened. The light started flickering like in the living room and it wasn't doing that the night before. And then the weirdest thing that happened that night was I went to take a shower and I wasn't in the shower yet, the shower was off, and the shower had like turned on by itself,
and I was just like freaked out. And then he saw the light on the TV flickering all night and it wasn't doing that the night before. So that to me just like solidified my belief in spirits in the spirit world. Because my dad, who was a skeptic, and I both had this crazy paranormal experience on the solstice and neither of us could rationalize it, neither of us could explain it away, and it was insane. It was. That was my craziest paranormal experience to date.
That is, that was pretty wild, especially I mean the fact you have all the confirmation somebody else was there and saw the shit, you know that it.
Was real exactly, and a skeptic take at that it was it was insane. Wow, Yeah, it was. It was scary. It's funny telling it now, but yeah, we were booking it.
That's awesome. When what do you think what mistakes do you think people make when they rush into magic or esoteric practices.
If you've noticed, Oh, that's another good question. I think that people first getting into magic, I think a lot of people are really excited to get into the flashy stuff and the cool stuff. Totally understandable, like we've all been there, like when you start obviously when I get into the cool ship. But I think that it's really important to also ground yourself and remember, like I need
to learn meditation. We're talking about visualization earlier. I need to learn visualization, and I need to learn how to ground myself. How do I keep myself centered? How do I you know, like just these little not little, they're not little at all, but just these kind of basic foundational things like starting with that, I think that's important. I think I think another thing is like boxing yourself into early. I think that's the thing that a lot
of people do. I know this is a lot in like the witchcraft community for sure, especially with I mean I'm a younger person, but especially with younger people with I'm this type of witch, like I'm I don't know,
a green witch or whatever. I think that peoples are generally useless, at least at the beginning of your practice, because I think that you really need to take the time to learn everything you can about the path that you're getting into and take the time to figure out what you like and what works for you, and you know, don't live in yourself at the beginning of your of your path. I think that's a big kind of thing people run into. Those are the two big ones for
me that I'm thinking of right now. But yeah, I think, you know, in general, like starting out not limiting yourself, starting with those basics and building a strong base of knowledge. Like the Internet is very useful, I think for exposure to ideas initially, but I don't think people should rely on social media for magical advice. Like I see people asking on TikTok like what should I do for this
kind of ritual? Or like should I practice this? And I'm like, why are you asking these people on TikTok, because then half the comments are misinformation, like people who don't know what they're talking about. Much better to go straight to the source and read books or you know, if you can, like talk to more experienced practitioners in person, or you know, message somebody, or I don't know, join join an academic group or order or just just something like that or take a course.
I don't know.
Is that something you've noticed more nowadays? Is academia kind of coming into the circle.
Like academa coming more.
Yeah, yeah, into into magic and you know, orders because I think I have.
I don't. I don't know, because I think that like me personally, I don't know if I've been around like long enough for there to be a comparison to the past, like with my time in I guess magical community, or because I did spend a good bit of the beginning of my practice just not on social media at all or or in person communities either, And so coming into this, I've kind of it's kind of always been like that
for me. But I think also so with academia being more in these circles, there's also that opposite end where there's kind of anti intellectualisms for people too in our society in general. I think that extends out as well, but I think that's less so in like ceremonial magic and occult spaces, and more so in maybe some more new ag areas and more some of the witchcraft community in paying.
A community as well, I think, or maybe I've just come across more people that are into it since podcasting, But for me, it seems like I think that it tends to get a little bit more. I think looked at I try to come across from that angle too, So I guess if people listening to my show, they must be into it.
Yeah, I think the occult stuff and like the occult community and more like western naso terrorism. I definitely noticed that, and I love that. I think it's I think that's great.
You know something I meant to ask you earlier. Yeah, I would say that this is Exactadeemi. Well, I guess maybe if you wanted to do it correctly, it would be a lot of research. When you mentioned that you didn't get into Solomonica, I guess, like you mean kind of like the Geisha was part of not doing that because of the whole setup and how much shit you had to get into like that, if you want to do
it supposedly, right. I mean, I was never really too tempted to really work with demons, but when I even looked at the Goaysia, I was like, I'm not this is too far.
I'm like, I I'm a normal person. In the twenty first century, like I don't want to do all that. I think that was part of it. And then part of it too for me was like wanting to get away from Abrahamic influence. I guess yeah, no.
I could see that. Yeah, it makes.
Sense, but that was a part of it as well, because it's just so much and it's very specific, like the setup, the the tools, all of that. I found it interesting though, but I think for me was kind of the Abrahamic or the kind of Christian thing.
Was it for me? You got a lot of garb and then you gotta put like, you know, the sigil. There's a lot of work in that, and then we're working with that stuff.
Crazy.
Oh yeah, for sure, for sure. Just random question only because I don't even know what I forgot. I already forgo, already lost my thought. I was gonna ask you something about World War two. Yeah, I had something to do with the cult is to go into that, but I just totally forgot. Sorry.
Yeah, I'm no expert on World War two, bro.
I was gonna ask you if you thought it was like maybe a cult and a cult war, but I totally forgot why I was going to even say that. So it doesn't even matter.
Yeah, just a while ago about like, which isn't a coltists doing magic against the Nazis like in World War two. I can't say I'm like super like, I know that happened, but I can't say I'm like super well first on that history. But you know when people say, like fighting fascism with magic is like some new thing that that's like trending ar or whatever that people are doing. Absolutely, Oh no, I.
Mean Hitler was actually using magic. No, I think the whole actually magic. Well yeah, yeah, yeah, I just wish I could remember why. Oh, this is why. That's why if you're just wondering if you did believe that, Because prior to the war, I found this interesting, Like when Italy was kind of like starting to pull their shit too, they went over and uh invaded Ethiopia and they took
an Obelisk, and they took the Lion of Judah. And at that time when they did that, the ruler of Ethiopia actually was deemed as somebody who had the bloodline from the Salomonic family. So I found that like really interesting. There was actually even a country up you know, up until I guess what was that in the thirties. Oh, whenever it ended actually ruled because the ruler was supposedly
had you know, it was the badline of the solemn moony. Yeah, it's really weird that actually were like, I don't know, it's just like, you know, it's interesting to see what countries of people acknowledge this stuff outside the United States as well.
Yes, absolutely, yeah that's something I was like, that's another rabbit hole from sure for sure.
Yeah yeah, yeah yeah, let me see what other what how do you ground yourself? Like, how do you keep yourself grounded while exploring you know, kind of intense spiritual stuff.
Keeping myself grounded, that's that's really important to me. Having people in my life that keep me grounded is really helpful, you know, my boyfriend, my friends, like all those kinds of people, and my start. I think spending time in nature is super super important for me. So I try to spend a few minutes outside every day, even it's just ten minutes, and then like maybe once a week I'll try to have like a walk outside, like a hike or or just a walk out on the trail,
whatever it is that's super important to me. And then also working out lifting. Yes, I do it five days a week. That keeps me grounded and like in my body and just you know, part of the real world too, not getting overly caught up in one thing or one aspect of life, you know, and just like having different hobbies I think is really important. So I'll read, I
won't just read about the occult and spirituality. I'll read fiction as well, and I'll watch TV shows and do like normal person things, but just try to stay ground curial as well as the spiritual.
Yeah. No, I think it's great advice, especially like that losing yourself completely in that like still you know, being attached to the real world and still like you know, doing other things.
But yeah, like trust me.
Yeah, but I like, like you mentioned the gym. I mean, I do think for me that is that is huge. It's even a way I guess of probably just getting out aggression or if things are bothering.
Me, you know, absolutely, And I think and and even I mean, I know I was talking about like going to the gym and getting out of just like doing spiritual stuff. But I think it's a great way to get your your energy moving too. And I just feel like moving my body almost every day. Things in my life feel less stuck too, And I just find that interesting, like just that energy moving, you know, I think that's really important. Just moving your body in some way is really important.
Yeah, I think there's like a phrase I might be saying it backwards move a muscle, change of thought, like to even say that sometimes have you ever noticed for me, I even think doing the l b r P technically counsel as like a physical meditation, But do you think like sometimes when you're working out, do you notice like it's almost kind of like a physical meditation?
Oh? Yeah, absolutely heavy. I have to breathe and just like really on my breath.
Yes, But.
Like I definitely feel that that aspect of it, And I've really been thinking about that lately, is like just thinking about how I can connect the gym and and lifting and like that aspect of my life with my magical practice too, because I definitely feel like there's an energy like you're moving, and there's there's an energy work aspect that you can tap into with that as well. And then I've been thinking about that, but I haven't quite fleshed out my ideas on that yet.
I think definitely think you're onto something there for sure, definitely think that helps matters.
This is life.
There's a lot of people I know that are huge into this stuff, and they all have some sort of like physical way of like keeping their body active or just moving it, you know, keeping it awake and you know all that stuff. What since getting into this stuff? Uh, what misconceptions do people project? Have you had? Like people kind of project onto you right away when they when you mentioned this stuff. Have you ever had a deal with like silly shit?
Yeah, that was so much soilichit it's not even funny. I guess there's stuff from from like lay people, and there's stuff from other magical or spiritual community people who don't know much about filima and stuff like that. So you know, I guess from lay people. I mean the first one is like, oh, you must worship the devil like your safeness blah blah blah. I think a lot of us have probably gotten that. Uh, some people it's worth like laning. To some of them it's not. But
you know, some people are just setting their ways. And there's also people who are who are very you know, extreme Christian who think anything that's not Christianity is double worship, like Yoga's demonished, and it's like shock the fuck up.
But yeah, you know I've gotten that. I've gotten people who think that, you know, I practiced witchcraft for cursing people, or that it's like all baneful like bad stuff, And it's like why why would I care enough about you to curse you to put all my energy, to put my energy into doing that, Like you're not that important?
Uh?
And then I guess with Thelema, A lot of people have misconceptions about curly, about the Lima as a system, you know, about like it just being like hedonism and doing whatever you want.
Somebody's getting It's it's so much and the amount of people ever since I kind of started being more vocal about like Felima and like talking about it, who have used the whole do what that will, like do whatever you want?
Argument watch a moment like I've never thought about that before.
And it's like, you know what's funny, Really, anybody that I knew that was serious into this stuff never took that that way anyway.
Exactly exactly. It's all people who don't know what they're talking about it.
It's like somebody read a couple of memes on Crowley or Thelma and then start running their mouths like saying stupid ship, and it's.
Very obvious that they're just regurgitating what they've heard someone else who is ignorant say, so I don't I don't take that too seriously. And then you know, sometimes I'll link them to like one of my little videos or something like, Okay, so this is what we'll talk about this. If you're interested, you can maybe learn something new, and if you're not, that's okay, we don't need to continue this conversation. But there's a lot of misconceptions out there.
Oh yeah, you know, when I first started off this podcast, I was actually more in the conspiracy community actually, and uh, you know, there was I'm just gonna be real, there's a few podcasts out there that really lean on that ship just to shit on the Lemur and Crowley all the time. It's always to do with that will. But they never finished the rest of it where it says love is the law, love on.
The will under will.
Like why are you leaving? You know, there's love in this whole phrase, and you seem to just think it means horrible.
Shit exactly define like waking a man in the world and he was sacrificing babies and all this the stupid shit.
I just I mean, listen to me. The guy could have maybe fallen to his own demons at it, you know, at the end. But I mean, I do think again, not putting him up on a pedestal, because he even said that twice in his own work. Don't do that. I'm not the one. I do think he was onto something, and I do think he had a glimpse of love and beauty at some point.
And I think nuance is so important, and that's something that is missing from honestly, maybe even a majority of the conversations I see online about be it occultism and magic, be it politics, be it I don't know, think of any kind of any topic of conversation, but I think nuance is really important and it's something that people need to lean into more. Because Curly wasn't perfect, and he wasn't you know there there. He was a flawed human being.
But that doesn't mean we just write him off completely and just say he's basically satan and like he's the worst guy ever, because that's also not true. And I think it's really important to have like a balanced active of people especially historical figures, you know, like they lived in a different time and place as well, And I think it's important to keep that in mind too.
I agree, we got politicians now they're eating kids.
Yeah right, let's be outraged over the right things.
Please, Yeah, exactly right. That's magic in itself, I think, Actually, yeah, yeah, yeah, Oh what what what do people you think romanticize about the occult that they really should not?
Oh, things that people romanticize about the occult that they should not. That's a good question. I think that maybe people come into vehicle with expectations of it being something it's not, you know, where it's like super flashy like the movies or or whatever, which is normal because it's like if you haven't been exposed to it yet and you haven't been in the community and you haven't practiced yet, that's natural. I think we all kind of probably had
that coming in. So so I think that's a big thing, you know, but like it's not like the movies, and you know, don't get disappointed coming into it and it like you're still in this on earth, you know, like it's not. So I do think that that's a thing that people do, and I did it and I'm sure everyone does it at the beginning of their path.
Yeah, I agree with that for sure. I did the same thing as modious. Isn't going to actually physically appear in your living.
Room, I don't think, right. It's not like the Sandman, where like they do the ritual and he just like dropped down off the full in front of them, just like no, sorry, that would be cool.
But at least happened in your first month, because I think I know what you mean. It Like when I came into magic right away, I was, I think kind of expecting like more, I guess serious stuff at first that happened, you know, and then you kind.
Spirit work and stuff like that. It's like, oh, they're definitely just gonna like appear in front of me, Like I'm gonna see apparitions. It's gonna be like so cool, like Edgar Allan Poe and it was. You know, it's not usually how it is. You might see things, but yeah, a lot of the time it's just things you that come into your mind and intuitions and smaller things like that. At least in my view.
I would even say something that took me a little off too, And I think it's stuff that we and you both kind of on already, is like the beginner things. I was just like, I got to meditate, you know what I'm saying. I gotta do breath work. I'm supposed
to visually, you know. And it's just like I don't think I really really thought it, Like I just thought it was gonna be like, oh, you know, I'm gonna start spinning around drawing this ship doing this, and then you know, I'm like, fuck, I actually got to put some more work in exactly yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. So no, I do think that was a that's a good Yeah, definitely. It definitely got me like that. I got it like maybe like sorry, go ahead, go ahead.
I said it happens to the best of us.
Yes, I like that phrase. I say that a lot actually happens to the best of us. For somebody drawing to occultism but genuinely uh serious about it, where should they begin? What's your advice?
A lot depends on like the path that you're drawn to as well. But I think as a general thing or as a general starting place, I would say, explore different paths and see what you're interested in and and do a lot of reading. Do as much reading as you can, just like look at the foundational texts of whatever paths you're interested in. You know, if it's witchcraft, I mean there's so many there's so many witchcraft one on one books out there. There's other stuff you can
look at too. There's like traditional witchcraft, there's WICCA, there's different types of WICCA. There's just like eclectic witchcraft that you could do. There's folk magic, you know, and then like in terms of their magical paths, I mean there's ceremonial magic, and then there's like different paths you can go within that, and there's just so much stuff that
you can learn about. So I think starting off with that knowledge base is super important and going from there, I mean, like we said, meditation, learning, meditation, visualization, just like tapping into that spiritual current and then also learning to still your mind is super important. And I would say make sure you keep a record and write everything down because if you don't, you will regret it in
the future. So keep a record, like write down the things you experience, write down the things that you learn as best you can, and your practice will shift most likely over time. I think that you know some people they start with something and they stick with it. But I feel like that's pretty rare for a lot of us. I mean, we go through kind of different phases and kind of end up finding something we're interested in or multiple things. Like I think my path is always going
to be multifaceted with a lot of different influences. And don't be afraid to ask questions. I think that especially online. Now I'm not saying ask questions on TikTok, but there are people you can connect with their communities you can join, there's discord servers, there's courses you can take, there's there are people's patreons you can join. You know, there's a lot of people out there who have a lot of knowledge to give, who are actual, reliable sources of information
and of guidance. So I think those things are are super important. And take everything you see on social media with the grain of salt, and don't stop reading books. Books are important.
Yeah, No, I think you're right about the whole investigating and read as much as you can. Like you said this so much out there, and I would even say, you know how to tell a good in my opinion, if you asking somebody their advice how to tell somebody, if they're good enough to listen to, they're probably going to be like, I'm going to direct you over to here to read this. They're not going to give you
the answer and tell you what it is. They're going to tell you where to go to find out more information, you know, And uh yeah, and I even, like you were saying, with the discord service, there's a there's a few people I know out there now with the discord service is a plethora of information, regardless of what they're into like that, not to Mayvis. You know, I've knew a few people that are in her discord server and they say, it's just amazing the amount of shit in there.
Yeah, and she's eligible and she's I mean, when I talk to her, I'm just always amazed because I just learned so much and just finding those people, and like you said, her discord server, and then you could talk to other people who maybe have a little more experience, and they can they can help you find those sources that you learned from as well.
One day, maybe I'm gonna get you on the show one day. I tried, I've tried to reach out to it, but I can't get her wrong, But uh yeah, all right. Next, I think I have what there's one thing you wish people understood about your work before judging it?
Oh oh ha, There's there's a lot of things with that. I think that, especially for people who aren't familiar with magic and stuff like that is the assumption that dark equals bad, right, Like I work with dark and light. I kind of try to have as much of a balance as I can. But for example, with my work with Hikaate, you know, a lot of people who are kind of outside of this fear they see that as kind of scary, they see it as weird, or even with Carnunos, right, because that you know, the antler is
the horn god, kind of archetype. People straightway think devil, which obviously isn't the case, right. Carnunos is the forest, nature and just just all things that are sacred and beautiful too, I think all of us deep down, you know. And so I want people to understand that dark does not necessarily mean evil, and that image of the devil that you see portrayed in Christianity demonizes pagan gods of nature. And so when you see people worshiping Carnunos, worshiping pan
it's not devil worship. They're not evil. I mean, that's a big thing for me. And the other thing is kind of the wu wu assumption that I have like my head in the clouds, or I don't believe in science, or that I'm somehow less intelligent for being spiritual and for believing in magic and for being real whimsical. That's not true at all. You know, I believe in science. I'm interested in it. I'm also interested in magic, and I think that those two things definitely go hand in hand.
And like actual magical practitioners know this, being anti science does not necessarily correlate with believing in magic and being a practitioner. And it does bother me that that's a misconception that people have because some of the most intelligent people I know also practice magic. And yeah, it's it's a shame that these misconceptions are still so common.
Thank you for mentioning that that's even a post out. If you've ever seen me do it, sometimes I will throw it up every once in a while. It's not old dicks and demons like, it's not always like horrible bed stuff. There's a lot of magicians out there that are actually doing this stuff because they want to be a better person.
Absolutely, and I would say a good number of people get into this stuff that people want to be a better person, they want to improve their lives, they want to maybe get out of a tough spot, or they just find it beautiful and they see how can add value to their lives. And there's nothing bad or evil about that. And obviously there's always there are always going to be bad people in every space. There are always going to be people who are you know, seeking power
or seeking whatever. And but that's that's true for any space and in or outside of the magical sphere. But I think for the most part, people are here to grow and to improve and seek spiritual I don't know if enlightenment is my word, but spiritual attainment, I guess.
Yeah. There's even like times in not saying this to pat myself on the back or say I'm better, because I'm not. But like there's even times like when I had my when I was you know, heavy into my practices.
You know, I could do a ritual, you know, meditations and everything included almost like an hour long and that literally could have been just like the orgy really where I just set myself up to pray to God, and I'm thinking, I'm like, yo, like, not for nothing, but it's just like, you know, to a Christian or a Catholic who wants to demonize what I'm doing, it's like, you, like, what I just did to talk to God to ask
him to make me a better person. That will probably take you three months to spend that much time in prayers. You're like, you know what I'm saying like that for nothing, but like I'm actually trying to really put myself into having a conversation with the Man, oh God or whatever it is, you know, and like saying, tell me you worshiped Satan. I'm like, fuck, really, yep.
That's such a good point. How much praying?
Yeah right, I mean at least I guess if you're a Catholic and might counsel roseries but you know, like but uh I.
Think, yeah, no, I've thought about that, like yeah and whatever, but uh I think we'll we'll leave it there as well, if you don't mind.
Uh.
Viv, that was really a great, great talk. I really had a good time with you, and you're really you're really impressive actually for your age. The amount of work that you're doing and how you're into it. Pretty cool, pretty cool. Good for you again, like I was saying before the show starts, hopefully in a few years I'll have you on the show for a book that you put out, so that.
Would be wonderful. Thank you so much for me. This has been a wonderful conversation. You know, it's been my first podcast back in like yours, I go back online, so it's been really fun. I really enjoyed it.
Great. Great, Please let everybody know where they can find your stuff, and you want to like remind them about your old YouTube or anything you know that you're going to be doing in the future.
Absolutely. Yeah. So you can follow me on Instagram, TikTok, threads as viv dot scarlet Star, and I will be posting videos on YouTube again starting in the summer, and that's Scarlet Star Sanctum. I will also be making a substack, so just like stay tuned on my socials for that for where I kind of get into the routine of
writing and everything like that. And I'll also get my Patreon back up and running most likely this summer as well, So just stay tuned for all of that stuff and just follow me on those platforms for now, and I will give you guys updates on what's coming.
Awesome. Thank you, and definitely follow her Instagram. I love how like you do like the planetary and elemental kind of associations and stuff like that. You know how you can like the basic stuff. I think that's cool.
Yeah, yeah, I like to have like those, like resources for people, but in a way that's accessible and easy, so I don't need to make more of those.
Yeah, definitely, definitely, But thank you again, viv I really had a good time, and everybody in the chat, thank you for joining and thank you for the comments. And that is the end of another Occult Rejects and until the next one, everybody be well later.