You see something's going to happen.
What what's going to happen? That's all right, Welcome back to chane It Down. I'm your host, Loomis Channitdownradio. Dot com is the website, UH sacred site. Dot info is the website for the documentary series. If you're if you haven't checked it out yet, welcome again. This is episode three hundred and one. And if you are a regular listener to this show, you know that our world is run and owned by the Darker cult. I although I touched on various bits a lot, I don't consider myself
an expert. I consider myself kind of like a student in learning. And when I started looking at these these occult groups, I had of very narrow, naive idea of how it all works, almost like a cartoon version. You could say, it's easy to throw everything in a basket and write everything off. But there's a lot to look at with the occult and nature of this information and how it really works. And I look at it as
as they have a dark magic spell on humanity. They've got us all chasing federal reserve notes here in America or an equivalent in your country. You have magical sigils on your money and humanity isn't a trance and they have no idea. So today I got the occult rejects in the house experts in their field of study. You can catch the occult rejects on any podcast player. They have a lot of material out there, great stuff, deep studies and a lot of great minds on some serious
topics of studies. So you guys are a wealth of knowledge and welcome all to chant it down.
Thank you for having us on.
Oh oh what did I do? Thank you appreciate it. Yeah here we are all right. Well, yeah, great to have you guys. So uh, I kind of wanted to get into some like top level pyramid top of the pyramid stuff here. I mean, so, I mean the question is what dark occult group is at the top of the pyramid. I mean, who really runs this ship hole? I mean, my second book ever, Down the rabbit Hole was Committee of three hundred by doctor John Coleman, just in front of Behold a Pale Horse. This is way back.
And although I think more of the people he's pointing at are like bankers and geopolitical players and like you know, like royalty and roundtables, but I want to read this real quick quote here and from him here, and he says, what are the goals of the secret elite group the Inheritors of Illuminism, Mariah conquering Wind, the Cult of Dionysius, the cult of Isisism, Bogo Millism, the elite group that
calls itself the Olympians. And then he lists the goals and you know what, we don't need to get into that because but we can. But that kind of steers the show in a different direction. But I thought we could start there because a lot was said there, just just in that little paragraph. What do you what do you guys? Who do you guys think is running this this this hell whole system? What kind of dark magic are we dealing with here?
I don't know if somebody else wants to go first.
I don't know if I can actually give you an exact person, specific group to blame, but it could be able to say certain magic.
Yeah, yeah, but I don't know. If somebody wants to go before.
I go, I'll throw in a little bit, you know, in the hat. I think that you don't know their names on purpose, you don't know their location on purpose, to know who they are means that they have lost the game because another faction has taken over and casted them below the top. When we discuss people that Rockefellers, Rothschild, whomever they're they're at the top, but there I don't think, in my opinion, that they still hold the power that
they did when they did. And I do believe that you don't know the names of the people that are at the top because they're vne amongst each other and they like living in the shadows. They like living in anonymity. There's more power that way. So I will throw that two sins in.
Yeah. Cool.
I totally agree with Lisa. I think that was a great articulation of it. I sort of am going through I guess would say ideological changes. Maybe not ideological, but I'm just looking at parapolytics very differently, very differently than I would have two years ago. So for me, I kind of am looking at, Yes, magic is real, and
so what do we do with that information? And what do we do with the wisdom sciences and the texts and the knowledge, and like people like Nick who are parts of fraternal organizations, like what do we make of all that in the midst of if we assume that there's kind of a metapolitical elite factions, which I think is true. And so I think that magic is not good per se, but I think it's a tool that which we can utilize, you know.
To.
Do whatever we want.
Really, I mean, but we we can have greater goals and lesser goals, and so I think it's better that we acknowledge that it's real and that we can use it if we want, if we so will. And yeah, that's us where I'm at with it. I don't know how Nick's gonna follow me up, but.
Yeah, I actually something that I think is good to Maybe I wasn't even thinking of it this way before. I guess I get into like, I guess my idea. I think one thing to press, you know, I think on how person is using magic, is it bad or good? Occultism? Maybe keeping things hidden on purpose I don't agree with. But uh, you know again when it comes to magic, and I guess, you know, I'm using the word of cults, which does mean hidden. So I guess like I was saying,
like maybe things shouldn't be hidden. But as people use the word a cult or magic, I think people might be a little confused and think it's always negative. So you know, before I go any father, like, just because I'm saying that this stuff is bad and it's being used against us, doesn't mean that it always has to be. I think if the person practices magic on themselves, they.
Will have an enlightenment and they.
Will actually grow as a person positively. But when you use it against others, I think it just corrupts you. So just saying that, uh, I can't say, and I'm not necessarily blaming it on the Nazis, But what I would say right now, I think the type of that is really fucking people over is Nazi style magic, which when I say Nazi style it doesn't necessarily mean sacrificing people or you know, doing horrible shit, you know, to actual people physically. You know, it doesn't even mean there's rituals.
When I say Nazi style of magic is handing you video and audio that is not correct or you're not looking at it the way it's supposed to be.
They will present you visuals to.
Get you going and to fuck up your head, to make you think certain ways, to make you react certain ways, you know, and like some examples they'll give you like the Ukraine War at first, when a lot of that stuff was going off, we had a's off battalion that was for some reason giving the United States news companies what's going on over there? Well, the azof battalion's fucking Nazi battalion. Why are they handing the United States footage
to watch? Because they probably made it up and they want people to believe whatever the fuck they're telling us is going on over there, you know, And even the thing with NASA, I would say, like almost the same thing. They're telling us shit about out of space, but I don't believe they're actually telling us unciphered you know. It's it's you actually have to understand what the fuck they're
saying to make sense out of it. I know everybody wants to say that, you know, NASA is a propaganda to an extent, it is, but it's because we don't understand the way their context is. I think if we understood what they were saying, we'd know a hell of a lot more. But it be in a cult aspect, and that's so much space as we look at it. That's even another thing. I don't know if a lot
of people know this. The whole idea we have of what's out there has always been constructed and handed to us from alchemists or ocultist anyway, so we shouldn't even really go by what we think they're saying. But and again, even with that, you know, somebody's telling us what's out there, but we don't fucking know, just like how when we're being handed something on the TV and it's like like
like another way to I guess explain it. And not that I'm picking any side, but I remember one time a while ago during the election, when the Proud Boys and Antifa were fighting. Depending on which news channel you saw it, they showed you a different clip to make it. If you were on CNN, they made it look like the Proud Boys through the first punch, and if you're on Fox, it made it look like Antifa through the
first punch. So you don't know who the fuck actually started what, you know what I'm saying, what really happened. They're just showing you what they want you to believe, so it gives you a certain, you know, feeling. I think that is exactly really what's uh going on right now, I think, and it's through politics, sexuality, a few other things but uh, even with a lot of the conspiracies that are going on right now, in my opinion, at all it is is to create hate, you know. And
that's that's all, you know. Again, I'm not sticking up for the Jews, but yo, not but nothing. You got a lot of racist motherfuckers out there over that shit that like, honestly, you should get your fucking head checked.
If you're that fucking feeling that fucking way, man.
There's something wrong with you, you know. And in just other certain races or you know, sexualities. It's like, yo, if you have that much fucking anger in you, like, and you think you're godly, No, you gotta look in the mirror, man, that's fucking satan, you know. It's just
it's just weird times, you know. And uh, And I think like again, like Nazi style of magic is giving you visuals and images and sounds to get you fucking stirring and thinking you certain way to change the way you act and the way you think.
You know.
I I would even say, like QAnon could be a real good basic explanation of that. They gave you comms. They really didn't even give you images. They gave you words and people believe that shit to where they actually live in a complete separate.
Reality of what the fuck ever we're living.
In because that shit's not real or it's the way they're looking at it.
That's some serious magic.
You have actually convinced people that they're living in a world that doesn't exist just due to fucking words on a screen. And it's certain certain words that sound you know, sit rep. Let's throw any calms. We'll throw in a couple of things to make people feel like when they're reading that they're educated in terms.
Oh I know something now.
I mean, you got people basically bust the nuts over saying the word treason on Twitter. Now, it's like you weren't even using that word fucking five years ago, and now because you think you know something about politics and you're a Trump TRD, every time you yell treason, it's just like fucking silly shit. I was watching that shit today. I was like, Yo, you b the fuck is it dumb?
Obama's not gonna get arrested. He has presidential immunity. And I actually tell you the truth, because of what Trump did in court and beat that case, it's actually given presidents coming forward and presidents behind this more of excuse to do the dumb shit they did. So honestly, Trump opened up the door for every fucking president to fuck us over and the ones in the past get away with it now. Like, I don't think people realize what the fuck's going on. They're so stupid because they're being
controlled by images, memes, you know, fake fucking photos. That's how I think is that I can't tell you the exactly the person behind it, but the style of magic. I think that's what's ruling the world right now, you know, in social media. Social media is a huge way that I think it had to be a vehicle to do it because now I can show you know, when we grew up, when we were kids, what was our influence the people around us?
Maybe a little bit of the TV. Now I got some motherfucker in.
Zimbabwe making me think I should act a certain fucking way when I never would have known my motherfucker existed twenty years ago. It isn't even real. I could be watching an AI video and thinking I have to be like that person so I can have friends. What the fuck is going on? That's magic?
The screen magic. It's a bunch of screens telling everybody what to think, how to act, and embedding ideas and ideologies. And yeah, I mean, I guess when you mentioned the Nazis, I guess I think of the real society. But you know, I'm no expert on really that too much. But that is that is pretty good because that is the magic that we're seeing in our lives. The uh, well, the mind control magics. What it is, isn't it. Yeah?
Well, even another reason why I did even kind of throw the Nazi in there is like, again I can't give you certain names, but in my opinion, we are seeing you know, nineteen forties kind of replaying out again, you know what I'm saying, Or we're seeing kind of like the same tricks that they did back then.
I think here it's just you know, being labeled a little bit different. You know, it's just weird.
You know, we're we're having we have we have a different reason to do it, but we're throwing people into fucking buildings now, and it's like, how do we know what's going on in there?
You know?
Oh, you hop the border, which I don't agree with, but now we're gonna start stuffing in them into prisons and like again they should they should be just sent the fuck home, honestly, because now we're wasting tons and tons of money on them.
That was another thing that blows my mind.
When I was in the FEDS, do there was people there for fucking years waiting to get deported. Why are we giving the you know how much money it costs to house somebody in the fucking Feds for a year? Send them the fuck home? No, this there's a fucking reason this is going on. But you know again, it's just like, yo, why are we all of a sudden toss some brown people in the fucking buildings?
Now?
It's just you know, and it's just the thing for me as Anna cult this, it's like, all right, well they're in the middle of the road to melotonin, So like, to me, that might be interesting. What the fuck is up with their panel Glee? Because it's different than a white person, they're different than a black person.
We can't hear you anyway, Lisa immuted.
It's good because I was laughing.
Okay, me and a friend we're doing a show. Well we're still continuing on how we all. I mean, you know, there is interesting things about this is a little side trip, but like how everybody got, you know, the different races on Earth occurred, like I mean, the DNA is it, you know, like the facial features and the you know, just the pigments. I mean, did it really happen the way they said it did? But that's a side trip. But there's a lot more to look at it there.
I think that we're not that no one wants to talk about.
Yeah, I mean I've even said before this is gonna sound crazy. We don't have to even go into it. But I think the whole race war is just to mimic the pupil and the scallere of your roible mm hmm, because I do think that that has to change in order to have a magical experience. Yeah, I know that sounds fucking out there and way off, but I do I do wonder about that at times.
Interesting well, they certainly keep it, hold on to that in any division they can divide people here in this in this alternative media truth movement, whatever the fuck you want to call it. I mean they they hand this community's things too, and people riff off of it. You know. It's like we're not immune to it either, you know, like we get we get it too. On our level of study too, if we're not careful.
I mean, I would say, if you want to you know, I don't know how how fall Lisa wants to go with this, but I would say, if you wanted to get into maybe specific names of people who might and now again, I do think you might be into the occult. I think he's more of a tech person who knows what the fuck he's doing. But my opinion, I think Peter Teal's got to slumb up the fucking the United States is right now controlling it. I think he's controlling Trump,
he's controlling jd. Evans, probably knocked off whole Kogan too, who the fuck knows.
Yeah, well, this is interesting what Nick's saying. Sorry, loomis no, no go for it. I had nothing real good to say, go ahead. I just wanted to say.
What Nick's saying is really interesting because It's come up in several discussions that I've had lately, is that this idea of like parafictional magic, which is people will die. So Haul Cogan could have died last week, like Nick was sing, we don't know because we weren't there. We have no no fucking idea, So he could have died at any time, but they tell us magical dates or they re narrativize the dates, so it's not untrue, like, yeah, he died recently, maybe died two days ago, but it's
not a magic number. So we're gonna just a lot of Chinese people do this. This is why I know about this, because especially for birthdays, they will do it. If you're born in an inauspicious day or an unlucky day or very very unlucky day. There are certain remedies that people do and like they're kind of magical. I would say, like one of the things is this happened
to Bruce Lee's. They dressed him as a girl for a year and gave him a girl's name, so then when that year was done, he became a boy and then that was his actual birthday was one year later.
So me neither.
So there's a lot of ways that I think that this happens with especially with people who know occult numbers and know numerology and astrology. I think they pick dates for themselves. I don't think it necessarily just aligns like yes to a degree, yes, but in general I think that they choose magic things to happen on magic numbers
or at least things that appear here magical. So I know this has been something that Nick and Lisa I've talked a lot a lot about on a NIXT show is that it's like magic is about perception, exactly like what Nick said, it's about what you believe, like your own preconceptions of what you have around things, rather than what they actually are.
And to build upon with Jinn said, doesn't royalty do that with numbers like birth definitely like death dates. I don't know about birth dates, but I do know like about marriage dates and all of that other stuff, royalty do align the dates specifically to their liking or to whatever they want it's more magical or powerful. And then to build upon wa Joe was saying, Yeah, I one hundred percent believe exactly what Jin is saying, and as well as with Nick and then magic is the hammer.
You can either use it to help you or you can use it to harm others. And usually if you're that hammer on other people, it's probably too harm where it's not in their favor because you're wanting to manipulate a situation. But if you're using the hammer for yourself, obviously, but you know, if you're using you know, you're probably trying to benefit your situation or you're trying to benefit
yourself and grow as a person. And I do think that when we initially my experience, when I heard about the word occult or I heard the word of magic, it had a negative connotation.
That was the I guess.
The society that I grew up in, the culture I grew up in, that that was kind of the sentiment, so to speak. But then when you go into the Hispanic culture and you're speaking in Spanish, it didn't have that. And so I existed in these two planes where in the English speaking world of my life, magic was bad, a cult was bad. In my Spanish speaking way of life, magic was a tool. A cult was hidden knowledge that the Shamans practiced, and that it was outside of the
realm of institutionalized and centralized medicine. So I mean, I think it has a lot to do with breaking that stigma and realizing that it is a tool, just it's portrayed. And like Jim was saying, the perception is everything. Goebbels was a master at this in the Nazi Party. That perception was the actual way to sway and manipulate, and that was a magic tool. And what he did, especially what you said was screen What did you say, screen magic?
Right?
Mm hm.
They even see people compare these things phones to a scrying mirror, you know. So yeah, that's interesting.
I always like bringing this up.
As as Kirchis said back in the day, he said, at some point you believe that, you know, in the future, that through crystals and light, we'll be.
Able to project demons and spirits. I mean, and that's.
Basically exactly how how our technology works. I mean, are all these screens line up with crystals and with the internet that we have? All it is is flashing light through fucking waters, so I mean technically through that and then turning into Wi Fi you know whatever. But technically the guy wasn't wrong. He said that in the sixteen hundreds.
Wow. Yeah, yeah, Well where is this technology really originating from? Too? That's that's probably an answer that leads up to the top too, because this kind of this this stuff, I mean, if you were living a tribal member coming out of the the forest, been living there your whole life, and you saw that you can get internet anywhere, that's magic. I mean, even I don't. I don't understand how Wi Fi totally works. Like I can get it here in this room. It's like it's like a radio station in
a way, but like it's just weird. It's like it's magic in itself. So where's this technology coming from? It seems like they're just giving us little bits, like giving us a little here there here. You guys have these phones now, but they're they're coming from like some kind of stockpile of of you know, really high tech stuff, and they're just there's slowly releasing it out to the public.
I'm gonna jump in really quick. Loomis, Oh sorry, Loomis. I think that the reality is is that technology is magic to a high degree.
Yeah.
I think it's basically indistinguishable. This is why I think it's really important what Nick and Lisa both said. It's like if you call magic evil but then post from your phone, just to use a personal example, you're doing magic, whether you acknowledge it or not. Maybe you remain in ignorance or maybe you grow in wisdom. I think that's interesting sort of way to put it.
Yeah, we don't know.
We always like if we were to drop a car back in I don't know eight hundred BC. They would immediately say it was magic, or it was a devil, or it was a demon, or it was it something because they don't understand it, they don't know how it works, they don't know what it is. Fear Fear taints and colors the object, for instance, the car in this scenario as being back as being magic because they fear it. And the moment you place fear and you color it
with fear, it automatically becomes bad. And so with the technology, like Jen was saying, I think it is it is magic, and maybe a lot of it is that what we perceive as chaos isn't really chaos.
We just don't understand the language.
We don't understand how it works, and immediately we immediately say, oh, it's this or it's and maybe it is again, but we don't know the ins and outs of it per se. But to an extent, it is magic. You are summoning information. I mean, isn't that the whole definition of acquiring the Akashak records? That you are summoning information that exists out
in this unorganized air into an actual scrying rock. And you said, tribe tribal I mean John D when he uses grying rock, it came from the Macha cup people, the astic people, and that's where you got rock from, and that's where he got And please correct me if I'm wrong, most of the Innokian magic.
And so.
You're accessing this information and organizing it into this device to project a more ordered form of information for you to understand. And that's exactly it. I mean again, I don't know, I don't know if that was incorrect, so please correct me if I'm wrong.
I think that's great. So I mean, that's exactly what Least said. It's like the ipsos, it's like the many or what we're drawing knowledge. That's what really what it is, because that's what the Internet presents to us, like an infinite possibility of knowledge, specifically that word knowledge. But it comes with so many pitfalls, so much misinformation, so much false things, and even in truth things can also be false.
So I think that you brought this up, Blu misses that like the even the quote unquote truth community, Like what truth are they really looking for? Because there's truth that that's meaningful and truth that that is what I would call a cleap up.
But maybe we won't go there today.
But it's it's it's a pitfall really, like it's like a truth that doesn't really matter.
I had, you know, right, I don't know if anybody here has an avenged sevenfold fan. Well, like I've posted this and I really do think it really encapsulates humanity today. And I'm sorry if people take it, you know, it's their line. Uh, tell me a lie in a beautiful way. I believe in truth, but just not today. That's exactly what the fuck people want. They want to hear some alien ufo, fucking somebody got fucked in the ass and Alista Crowley did it.
That's what they want to hear.
They don't want to hear the fucking truth of science that they can't understand and it scares them.
So it's just fucking weird.
I can't understand this, it's not I can't digest this in a meme, so must be bullshit and I don't want to entertain it. But like you got people covering some of the most ignorant shit being praised for that work. There's something wrong.
Yeah, I agree with you. I well, I think the pursuit for truth for some people it's just kind of exposing this, you know, the darker agendas in the world, which you know, I get behind. But a lot of people will get into this and they they don't realize what they're not really trying to dig out real truth, and they don't really want to take it that far, you know. And of course the the what is that saying that?
The the.
Two worst crimes I'm butcher butchering it is is not getting started and not going all the way. So a lot of people don't want to go all the way when they really seek this knowledge and really go well this, Oh no, I don't want to I don't want to go there. That just that's too much for me. I just want to know a couple of things. So I guess, yeah, it's it's good that you said that, because what are people really seeking in this truth community? You know?
But I think they're seeking more of dick and far jokes and dudes rubbing themselves down with baby ohill, that's what I think they're seeking more.
Yeah, it's half assed for sure. Yeah, well you know that, it's I think dark there. There is definitely dark occultism where people are using this against us, but they're just using like you guys have said a tool. So I guess going back to kind of the original sort of thing we started with, is these Olympias they called themselves.
What when he said that was that I didn't get that because in my opinion, maybe Gin and Lisa might even thought the same thing when I heard Olympians, I'm like, those are gods like we would use in magic, like or planetary gods.
I just didn't understand very yeah.
I was like, I was like, technically, they're not like I was gonna say, they're really like not like they're in the flesh. So like, I didn't understand where that was coming from.
I don't know that's what they called himselves, So I guess they think that of themselves, As you know.
I found that interesting people he said the Olympians. I'm like, see, now those are actual like planetary.
Gods and like what she said in Pika Tricks and stuff.
I did find that interesting that that was mentioned, because I don't know if most people would even know.
That, and they might think Olympians is something else. But I don't know how he was using it. I find that interesting.
Well, he's using it because he got information at the London I think it was a London library or somewhere where he got a lot of this information and found out about the Committee of three hundred. But this group called self the Olympians. Now I don't know, but that I mean, then then you get into the well, okay, is this is this going off off planet or interdimensional?
I mean, I don't know, like these blood line are these the are these the blood lines of the Nephilum where you know that we're put in charge of this planet? I mean, is that what they're getting at. I don't know. I'm just just going off riffing off of it. You know.
Well, I think like even the Lisa's talked about it on our show a bunch of times in different ways. I Mean, the blood line thing, I do think is something that's trying to be kept for sure. I mean, you could definitely see preserving blood or the DNA.
For a reason.
If they came from, like you know, fallen angels.
I don't know, but you know, I wonder how much of it is that they're referring themselves to, Like they don't want to call themselves elite because elite has now been given a bad connotation, but they do consider themselves an elite group. You know, think of an Olympian, a person that trains and they get to the Olympics and
compete in the Olympics. Technically they are the elite in their group, right, They basically competed against other people and they qualify there and now they're going for the gold. And maybe that's how they are perceiving themselves and why they refer to themselves unless they're Greek, I don't know. But it's interesting that they say themselves because it's like if there's the three, you know, if them three hundred
morphed into the twelve. When I say twelve the Olympians, the gods, they were a group of twelve, weren't they. I mean in twelve in your group? I mean, is that what we're saying.
I don't know.
And then when we go with blood lines, yeah, there's definitely a search for bloodlines. Blood lines have been very important. If most of the important texts that we know they document bloodlines. There's this constant surveillance of blood throughout when and I go back to Royalty because I think their decisions us what is important to them, and they do all kinds of blood testing to see who is related, and you can only marry who is related, and keeping
the bloodlines clean and what have you. It is important to them. And so my assumption is that it is important in a grander scheme that we don't understand or don't see it how they see it.
So one thing I would like to add to what she's even saying, even when it comes to science and physiology in the body. You know, me and Lisa and I even myself are doing solo work, have like showed multiple times people from the fifteen to sixteen hundreds that are drawing eyeballs and brains and nerves and talking about the blood. You know, that's how long ago you know,
they were occultists. They understood that. There's a lot of times, in my opinion, there is actually science, like legit science about the body that's even being shown in occultism, and people don't catch it at all. You know, But if you start looking back at some of the people that influenced, you know, all the bad guys that we have now, uh, you know, the ogs that nobody even knows the exist they're looking at, you know, how the eyeball works, how
it works with the brain. You know, they're talking about how blood is important. You know, you're talking about alchemy and saying it's not even metals, that it's spiritual. You know, you have to start wondering is there actually some science behind the magic as well? Because they were talking about it then, how could we don't hear about it now? You know, so like you know, even getting into just tying the blood into it. You know, they were looking
at that stuff a long time ago. Yeah, I think, uh, one of the people, Robert Flood, I think, uh, Lisa correct d it was you who found it.
Wasn't he the one.
Who I think kind of figured out or like worked on somebody's something with blood pressure, the way the blood flowed. I think, so, yeah, I know it's yeah, and I know I put it in the in the in the show, but it was something that you had told me about and I looked into it more. But I mean, you know, even he was you know, this guy was from the sixteen hundreds. He was an alchemist, and you know that guy was like basically kind of set the set the
standard of like something to do with blood flow. You know, these these people were into ship like that.
But you know, when you look at okay, you're saying Olympians, and I'm thinking Greece, and correct me if I'm wrong, Gen, please, stuff and that Greece and Turkey as somewhat of a bridge between Sufiism and all of coming from the East into the West. And you had this this kind of bridge, I think. And so most of what we know with occultism is Western occultism, and most of the Western occultism
originated in the East. They borrowed it, or they synthesized it, or they made it their own and put their own label on it, but most of it came from them, and a lot of nipple stuff, a lot of the scientific stuff. Almost all the polymaths, all of the occulties of old were polymaths everything everything from literature, debate, to medical science, astronomy. They knew everything. And I believe, Jenny,
please correct me if I'm wrong. You had this huge East that came across and you have this pivot almost within Greece and Turkey, I mean geographically speaking, and then it moves over into the West.
Is that correct, Gen.
That's exactly what happened, Lisa, you said it really well, so absolutely, I think that that's a really interesting way and I think that's sort of why we all work well together on the when that invites me on and Lisa is obviously on the with me. Is that is because we kind of are able to like suspend our disbelief in sort of the modern ideas of how occult texts got transmitted. So obviously this is a running joke
on the show. I'm sorry, Nick, I'm not trying to tease you, but we say, well, I will say it's a larp or I'll say we was kings wearer kind of words. So a lot of a lot of modern occultists do we as kings, which means that they believe that they are the originator of all that'll call knowledge. Right, everybody does this, every ethnicity, every single one. I can guarantee you there's not a you know, there's not a tribal there's not a tribal group in this world that
doesn't believe that they are the chosen people. So I'm not going to say that, but yeah, so I also have I'm a Central Asianist by sort of how I look at the world, loo miss, And so for me, it definitely what Lisa said, It's like Turkey is such an important point it's a point of person Persianification. That's really where a lot of this idea ideas come from. Is really is Zorastrianism, if you want to call it.
That.
A lot of our sort of alcoholism, whether it's Eastern or Western, there is sort of like where they're meeting in the middle the world island.
You could even say, so an origin point. You're saying kind of in Turkey, you think, I think that's that's very close to the truth.
I think that you see in Turkey because Turks aren't Arabs, right, So we ascribe a lot of our modern medical knowledge to the Arabic texts. But the Arabic texts were actually written by Mughalized meaning Persianified North Indians. So is it really Arab knowledge? I mean, I don't really think it matters. That's not how I sort of think of it. But I'm just when we're looking at a continuum of ocult ideas, we have to say that this kind of Aryan Persian,
Kashmir KASHMIRI sort of like Tibetan, Kazakhstani, Azerbaijani, Armenian. There's kind of a nexus point. There's a nexus point with all these different religions Christianity included and esoteric Christianity maybe the most important in terms of how we understand the different Like Lisa was saying, it's like a wheel that pushed all the information in all ten directions.
You'd say, yeah.
And the reason I bring this up because you mentioned the Olympians in that they consider themselves to be at the top, and so where do you sit at the top. It's going to be advantage point or a vantage view where you can see all. You can see into the east, and you can see into the west, you can see into the north, and you can see into the south.
They are doing.
They sit at the top like on Mount Olympus, right, they could see over everything and synthesize all knowledge and incorporate it into their own and utilize it for their own And that's what I'm assuming is what is happening with all that. But again going back to the bloodline,
I think that is very very important. They do think there's a preservation for a purpose, but we cannot forget that they are they were privy if they are bloodlines and they preserved and that means that they've preserved knowledge as well.
They probably were at.
The new ground zero during the biting of the apple, don't take of the fruit of knowledge and evil. They decide to take the bite, and they want all knowledge, regardless if it's good or evil, and so they sit at that point absorbing the knowledge for regions. In my mind, that's how I see that.
Yeah, I like that.
The Olympian point is also really important. Like Lisa, I know she keeps coming back to it because it's so important. No, it is important because I think it's about archetypes. I mean, I don't want to speak for Lisa or Nick. I just want to say I think it's about.
At least one layer, one layer.
You should say there are multiple layers of meaning, right, but I think at one layer, I think it's about the planetary archetypes, the actual god names that people are familiar with. Like when people say, like Jupiter, I know that's not a Greek name, that's a Roman name for the quote unquote same deity. But we're saying they're equivalent.
I'm just saying they're cosmologically equal. For this conversation, I think when people don't understand like what that actually means, like Nick was saying, like from the pictrix, there is a hierarchy. There's a hierarchy in angelic intelligences and also planetary like there's there's layers of how these things should be understood, and everything is kind of ordered underneath God. So people get really caught up with these what I have called lower density names, and because that's exactly how
a book like The Pictricks would describe it. It's a lower quality name. You're drawing something else. So if you're doing an invocation or an election to Jupiter, you're probably going to do it for my maybe getting a job maybe depends. It depends. Different people have different ways they work. But you can do it for that. You can do it for like maybe a promotion that would be a
really good jubiterarian working. So I think that people draw in these archetypes in the lesser quality is what I'm saying, So they try and embody it like a CEO that fulfills a lot of magical archetypes. A tech CEO fulfills a lot of magical archetypes because tech is also magic to a degree. So you could say these are quote unquote modern alchemists. Now do I think they're very smart? Not really, but there are really smart people in the sciences,
and there are really smart people doing tech work. So I think it's about it's kind of a race to see which idea wins. It's kind of liberated absolutely, you know, ecosystem of information or a more hyper controlled one.
Yeah, And just to kind of interject into exactly what j'en said in that it it is they I feel like maybe the Olympians where they sit in the Committee of three hundred, or probably the Polymaths of the three hundred, they are sitting at the very top. They are the administrative staff. I don't know something, and that they and everything that we see today and we talk about today, that that is where they're trying to do the most manipulation.
Whether it's biological, whether it's electromagnetic, whether it's human consciousness, whether anything that you have heard on some sort of truth or conspiracy podcast. They've looked into it, and they probably have their own science team, they probably have their own lab, They probably outsource their stuff, and they are aware of it all because that is important to them.
And again we go back to the synthesis of knowledge and that they know they're taking from all the different cultures and all the different belief systems and synthesizing something for themselves and taking a bite of that apple.
So we're talking about Zoroastrianism. Is that right? Would that have come from something else? Though? Like would they have taken that from the Samerians or the Acadians or I mean it's that same region. So do you think it even came goes further back? Or what are we looking at here?
Okay, I'll just say really, I'll see my part really quick and then I'll let weecond LEAs a go. So for me, I don't think it matters lumis. That's how I sort of look at it. I'm more like, we have this information. We know it came from about the first century AD, maybe the first century DC. We have texts that come before, sure, one hundred percent, But what again, what narratives do we believe? It's like the ecosystem of ideas,
which ones do we build our world around? So for me, I just think, okay, yeah, sure, it's all those stories, the other ones that came before. They're great, they're nice, so it's beautiful. Okay, But I because I'm a Buddhist liimits. So for me, we believe it, we treat religion or not religion. Me, we treat cycles much more axially, so it progresses. We're always in a progression forward. Doesn't mean
that it's not a cycle. Sure it's a cycle, but what we do with it in our consciousness right now, like this very moment, like us in discourse right now, the four of us, like what do we take of these little these ideas that we're talking about and then move it forward into our conversations like in a week or in a month, or like.
The ways that I'm more interested in.
Consciousness is I guess what I'm saying, rather than speculative archaeology.
I'm sorry, I didn't mean to take that long Beta. Yeah, Lea's sake over, you can go, Lisa.
So the what I know about Zoroastrianism and Zarathustra was the stuff that Nick and I covered on vehicul Rechecks when we looked at occultists from the past, and to me, it was a very interesting trip down what is available historically about that. Now we all know that history is written by the winner, Honker right, and so have to look at all history as okay, who's.
Giving who wrote it?
And what was the skirmish that led to this person writing that, but and knowing that what we do have, Yes, Zoroastrianism does come from that area. To answer your question, or at least that's what it is said, and please correct me if I'm wrong here.
That seems like that seems like what it's said. I mean, that seems like our origin point. So we just say speculatively, that's our origin point, right.
That's our data point. That's what we know so far. And I like to say that to nick a lot, it's a data point. We don't know if it's right. We don't know now, liar, we don't know what. At some point we're collecting all the data and we'll see where it falls on the graph, right, But.
I will say that it is.
It is older than some of the religions that today, you know, kind of are more of the headliners, you know, or the super bowls of the religions. And it does come from that region. It has it crept into other religions. I'm sure it has. I'm sure at some point there's synthesis. I mean, being a Hispanic, I know a lot about the belief system of the indigenous because it was married into Catholicism. Because I was the only way. The indigenous were just going to uptake it. Now, I think that's
true of other tribes or other peoples. In order to come in and bring in your thought, your belief system, you had to somehow adopt it into what they currently were doing. They're not going to incorporate tomatoes into someone's diet if they've never seen it how to use it.
Same thing with religion.
So I think that I've heard the narrative that zero Astrium is just Islam, or as lom as just Zoroastrium.
I'm sure there's.
Remnants and there's I don't think there's anything wrong with that. But with the Zoroastrianism, yes, it is a completely different belief system to.
What we do know.
But I will say, if you look at the actual person that they attribute Zoroastrianism, he had a lot of inspiration from Pythagoras. And yet you know, we have a lot of these secret societies that all get their belief system from Pythagoras as well. All these people were building upon each other, All these people were incorporating these ideas into their belief system because they were all seeking knowledge as well. They were all seeking the truth as well.
I don't know if that answers your question that was really long when died to apologize.
That's pretty good, it's pretty good, very nicely.
I guess my answer and why I had to let Lisa go first is because mine Pia just actually probably kill the whole the whole question, unfortunately.
But it's just that's my opinion.
I think most of these stories and all these different you know, pantheons, I think that is a group of people that happened to start having their own magical experiences and started using art and symbols to express it. I just think different areas just have different art. And what I'm getting at is like these symbols in this art and these gods that they create are archetypes to express
the experience of dying and coming back. And you know, that would be my opinion, that's what happens when you cross the abyss, so have a magical experience, you separate your soul from the body or tell pretty damn far and uh you know, just say and it sounds crazy, but uh yeah, it's the experience the visuals that they see, and then I think they're even expressing and I know this sounds crazy, like I think a lot of gods and a lot of archetypes are actually parts of your body.
And when you have this magical experience, things change, and that change is depicted in god names and all this other stuff. But you know, I have even said before, you know, when you want to start getting into it, even when you start looking at how the nervous system looks in the body, it looks a little bit like wings. And what does the nervous system do? They send messages? My opinion, I think angels are just fucking nervous system.
That's one part of it. You know, Jim was saying before that you have all these different these different levels of angels or gods and this and that. I have said this multiple times. There is basically one male and one female and then all those other fucking names. We're all just the same person going through their journey and changing through an alchemical experience. It's like if I, you know, had a flashlight and I shined it here onto the wall, you're gonna have Isis and Isis and raw or Isis
and Osiris just those two. I mean, I could probably go back fall the Hathorne Raw whatever those two. Now, you know, between this Flashlight and that wall are gonna change into all these other characters until they finally hit the wall different spaces of time, And I honestly think, like that's.
You know, it's again. I'll put it this way.
Tooth is Horace and Raw at some other point, you know, it is all just the same one or two male and female energies that are going through this love dance like a DNA and changing, you know, as they're intermingling. So I mean, so I guess what I'm getting at is I think a lot of these gods actually and all these.
Pantheons really aren't literal.
There's another thing I say on the show, I don't believe these things again just for me maybe because like if that at some point I stopped reading comic books. I don't think like fucking Thori is some real fucking dude that's.
Gonna come down and smashing people with his hammer. You know, I don't think.
There's you know, uh, it's Modious is waiting in some room for someone to fucking call him down so he can manifest and start doing horrible shit. It's all parts of your fucking mind and your whatever your body. I don't believe these things are like the way people look at them.
You know.
So that's why I said, it kind of kills the whole the whole question.
You're asking because I just kind of basically shit on all those ideas. But again, you know, they I think they do tell a story, but I just think the deepest story of it is, uh, is actually physiology, parts of the body and the experience of dying and coming back.
Wow, I've never thought about it like that. That's awesome.
I'll tell you like one thing, like this is my honest opinion because of fucking with magic. If you have you ever seen the movie Flat Liners, that shit has to be real because of my appearance. That's just that's a hack to have a magical experience. I'll go into a meditation to knock myself out. They'll just use fucking medications that knock themselves out and bring them back.
Same thing.
That's really uh, Please correct me if I'm the so Thustra J. How do you say his name? I don't know how you say his name? Okay, he was in meditative stance on the river bank when he had an experience with God. Everything that you're talking about meditation and most of these people. I'm assuming most of these people that are practicing magic for themselves are wanting to have
an experience with God. They're wanting to have an experience with a divine or with something outside of themselves, bigger than themselves. And I think that they want to cut out the middleman and and no longer adhere to the middleman and just me and me and JC or me and g O D or me and whoever want to just have that conversation without someone interpreting or having the
type of of a you know, middleman situation. But you know, with your question going back to Zas, yes, this is where I guess again, Jin please please please please correct me if I'm wrong. Zoroastrianism is where we start to see dualism enter into the Western religion. This is where we get eschatology, this is where we get angelogy, and dualism is in that Trojan Or Am I wrong on that?
No, You're totally correct.
Like before Zoroastrianism, there really wasn't a philosophy of religion. There was just practical ritual texts, like just texts that you did performed for state rituals or maybe private rituals, whatever it wasn't. It wasn't like people didn't think about it in these like more intricate ways.
So the world wasn't ending like in eschatology type scenarios, right.
It just continued.
You just performed the daily sacrifices or the daily and the world just continued.
It wasn't.
It wasn't particularly demarketed by time. Now, this is really interesting because even the concept of time and divinity comes from this split that Lisa's referring to. In early Babylon, they applied Aristotelian logic to ritual text and then derived the philosophy of religion, meaning that they can speculate on the nature of God. Zoroastanism is very specific that you do not speculate on the nature of God because God
is all that is good, that's the primordial idea. But when you speculate on them on Him in your consciousness exists a husk that like the if you believe God can be any part of evil, then that sort of takes shape in the world. So that's really what Lisa is speaking to, is like this idea of dualism. This is something that I think the Dharmic religions get really right. Is that we really put a high emphasis on non duality,
so not understanding like spell text. So when they say ferocious things for us, it doesn't mean that it's actually a coded language, a twilight language that you have to sort of pierce the densities understand it. Like Nick is saying, like you have to understand it at a biological level, you have to understand the level of consciousness and maybe a secret.
Level, maybe a more magician's level.
So that's that's a lot what I think where all the three of us are. I think we're coming at it from different angles, but we're saying very much the same thing. Is that the story presentation, the mythology doesn't really matter that much.
It's it's yes, it can help you, but you shouldn't. It's not a crutch.
And people, especially in modern magic, tend to use it as a crutch. And I'm not saying it as.
Like especially the Zodiac call man, it's everybody's past on doing dumb.
The shit.
Totally is yeah, you're not a passive agent. And I think that's what Zarathustra was also saying. It was like you need to be performing these acts. He called them tapisa, which is you are the flame. You are the flame of perception. So all the work that you need to do is inward. It's all turned inward to yourself, and that's where the experience of God will be.
Hmm.
So here's a little little direction changes slightly. But I've wanted to kind of know this a little bit. I mean, what is the Is there a is there an application that for gold and magic like to gold? Is there something that gold is so important about gold? Like through history people are trying to chase this stuff that has no intrinsic value, yet it's it's so valuable that all these people are Is there is there a magic application with gold? I mean, what what is so important about gold?
And why are these people chase it so much everywhere?
I'll take a standout at first.
Okay, so gold is the most and gen police correct me if I'm wrong.
Gold is one of one of.
The metals that's the least reactive with other elements, and so you can you.
Can wear it all the time and it's not going to turn green.
You know, you can put it into something and it's not going to it's not going to react readily with that other elements. And I think one. That's what they what chemists love about gold. What I do know about gold is that gold is not created on Earth. It never has been. Gold is in police, correct me if
I'm wrong. Gold is the product of supernova's dying, right, crashing, bursting, And so at some point something happened that we ended up with a whole lot of gold, whether we were near a supernova or we were with a star collapsing or something like that, and we ended up with that. And usually what happens is that when you have like a bursting or a crash or a dying of a star, it ejects, you know, all kinds of material, and that ejection tends to you know, do you know, I guess
what send out? And then we acquire it in our Earth's crust land whatever, and then you know, more dirt gets laid on top, or lava gets laid on top, or the flood comes and puts that into the ground. So when we are mining gold, we're actually mining something that is not produced by the Earth per se. It was somehow given to us by the universe or the collapsing of stars. And that's why it's finite there. The Earth cannot produce what I guess. The Earth doesn't produce gold,
so it's a finite quantity. So you know, the law of you know, economics is that we're not making anymore. So why do we want to create more gold? I think because alchemically when it has a high value. But to the fact that it's it's a very stable compound and it doesn't react with a whole lot of other compounds, I think, m.
Yeah, I would even say with gold, I would even go more I guess into science with that too, or I can't really explain it too much, but I do think that for neither vibratory cimatics or I think in a science way, gold actually can help maybe change frequencies stuff to do with, you know, with electricity. It may sound crazy, but I do actually think that is one of the reasons why the Catholic Church might sometimes put certain you know, gold and use a lot of stuff.
There's a lot of times now not a lot of times without finding out now and like I'm just wondering the type of metals have anything to do with it too. They're finding out now that there's churches that just the way they're built is will change the sound of the organ that's being played in there, so like whatever they're playing, actually the church is making it a different sound, but people don't even realize it. You know, does the metals
in there even help with that? But I do actually think when it comes to certain metals, especially gold, there is actually something scientific with it that I think helps with like you.
Know, unseen science.
And I also do think when it comes to gold, just as symbology, I think just looking at it, even where it falls on the tree of life, I think by the time you hit Tiffer right, you're pretty much ready to blast off. So you know, it's also even looked at like where the magician would have the experience of the Holy Guardian Angel but are come in contact with it. But I just feel like even in a cult symbology symbolism, gold is used a lot as well just to express like maybe experience.
I agree with that. I agree with both Nick and like because I think it is about it's it. I think the layer is it's it's alchemically sacred. So I think that and this is you can see, like it's not that all metaphysicians or wizards or alchemists or whatever
you want to call them, they don't all agree. So there's obviously everybody knows that there are the three states in alchemy albedo, rubido, and nigrido, but there's actually a fourth state, and there can also be a fifth state, depends on how you count, and different alchemists will say different things. So there's obviously the state of greening, which
is called chrysopia. So this is like a it's kind of what like Nick was talking about, like if you're talking about Cabala sometimes Tiffer, it is also described as having a green corona. But then you're if you're depending on which way directly. I know this is getting really esoteric, but depending on which way you're facing when you're there, you could see blue green or you could see kind
of sparkling gold. It's kind of interesting if you're thinking about in a level of magical experience, how do you understand the sort of sign posts that are before you and which way do you want to go?
Yeah, well that's that's cool, man. I I always just thought there was some kind of alchemical thing with gold. So there's something important that's there that we're not saying.
That's another thing too, uh.
Not not to get off of that, but if you really, if I really mean this, if people are like Google, you know, all the old alchemists, you know, like you know, the ogs, the people that I really had something to say, I'll tell you right now, probably ninety percent of them are going to tell you in their work this is not actually metals. This is the spiritual alchemy. I'm not trying to disc but I'm just the saying that I do think when it comes to alchemy, it's really not so much about.
Creating a gold out of like a couple of the metals.
I think it's more of like again, even with the Cobaalistic tree of life, every one of those fears, if you look at it hermetically, they all have some sort of mineral or you know, iron, this and that, aluminum, you know whatever, they all have something associated with that. If you start looking at like what those things do in science, you'll almost be like, I might almost make
more sense for it to be like that. And certain things are reflective, certain things absorb more heat, certain things reflect more heat.
So you know you saw one. You know, certain things that believe it or not tell you the truth.
If you were to wear tinfoil hats for a long time, that could actually start to become a bad thing for your fucking brain. People probably don't know that, and it's a joke, but like there's somebody on my show actually really looked into it, and they even sent me some like shit, They're like, yo, it's actually not good for you to wear tinfoil hats. I was like, yeah, that's interesting.
People will proponent it. Probably know that too, but uh, again, these original alchemists, a lot of them, were saying it has nothing to really do with that, and again just trying to show like when it comes to science, in my opinion, when you want to start looking at metals, it to me it almost makes no sense that they might have. And I know the weird thing is is to say, like, well, how did these people know this? My opinion, we've had this tech or understanding for a
long time occultist at least did. I hate to say it, but you know, people again, like I was saying, people, it's certain people that I've covered, in my opinion, in their books. When they were drawing the eye in the brain, it's just as detailed as shit that you look at today that's done with like you know, microscopes. How the fuck were you doing that, but they were, you know, and it's a little weird. I don't know if like people like you don't maybe don't really notice it or
be like even think. You know, I probably looked at the shit for a while until I was like, wait, how did you do this in the sixteen hundred? You know what I'm saying. Most people wouldn't think of that, though, But there's something there with that. These people actually, in my opinion, they understood a lot more than we than we think that we understood back then.
Hm hmm. Yeah, well, I mean so they've always been had they've always had an understanding I've been going back to like these Olympians or whatever. They've had an understanding that the average people don't. So they want to keep it hidden. So I would consider that dark occultism, as in they're using it against us.
So well, yeah, that's I think, you know, keeping it hidden is a problem to be do with, you know what I'm saying.
Yeah, But do they do they think too? I mean I don't know, of course, we don't know what they think. But do people in the circles of magic think that the regular people just couldn't handle it? Anyway? I mean because it is a lot can we handle magic, I guess is a question. You know, I'm going to do a really quest or anything. I'm sorry.
I just want to say this has been a discussion on Twitter like the Furious for the last few weeks.
I actually see that is people.
So Peter Carroll, who obviously wrote Libernel in the Psychoanod and many other chaos.
Books he chas magic works, Excuse me.
He he basically said that we're going to liberate magic for the masses. We're going to give it to them and we're going to not let them be slaves to the arcons.
I'm paraphrasing. That's not his exact words, but it's pretty close.
Like what's his definition of magic?
It so it's a lot about sigilization, applying your will that sigil and getting yourself there there. So I'd say, yeah, those are the three components of good chaos magic.
All right, Okay, But I just think it's I think it's that's I think I know a lot of conspiracy insury people will dislike this answer, but I actually think that there has been a kind of large scale and call an occulting, ad oculting of ocult tax, and I like to think.
In a small, small way, like next much bigger than that, and Lisa obviously as well, but I think in a small way, I'd like to think that I contributed to a little bit of that.
H No.
I so yeah, I would agree with that. Yeah, yeah, Well there's a lot of the there's a lot of entry levels. I mean, I'd still consider myself there even though I've been looking at this for a long time myself, but like, there's so much, there's so much more to know. I mean, it's just when does it stop?
You know?
You know, it's like a while too.
If you saw looking at all the cultists and see all the inventions they made, You're like, holy fuck, Like all of our toys and everything we love today were actually created by them originally. It's like even it's like, yo, why does it even seem like any like valuable invention? I hate to say it came from somebody who fucked with dabbled with that stuff. I mean, think tech we
have today will comes from the computer, the processor. A lot of that shit all comes from people are into the occult and we fell in love with this shit.
I think I think the occult to take kind of a one look at it. I think the occult and magic. Putting it in the hands of the masses is no difference then putting AI in the hands of the masses. There are some that will utilize it as a tool and they'll become brilliant for using it, and then there are some that will use it for a bad and either will make them dumber or it'll not help the
situation that we all are. I think I think to an extent, you should have to go through a process, some sort of I'm going to go with Lake for instance, losing weight in you could take a diet pill, you could do ozembic, lose a bunch of weight. Fantastic, you lost the weight that.
Was a goal.
But everybody knows that when you go through the process of trying to lose weight, you're going to the gym, You're waking up to go to the gym. You're overcoming not wanting to go to the gym, You're overcoming the frustration of not seeing anything and having to choose between this food or that food, choosing that or this that. After about a year of that, you are mentally changed.
It's no longer about losing weight. It's that you have psychologically and mentally become stronger and the weight the weight loss is a positive side effect. I think that's true of knowledge too. You have to go through the processes of struggle in order to somehow appreciate what that knowledge is on the other side after the challenge. I'm not saying that knowledge should be kept from the masses. I'm just saying it could be a process of maturation in the attempt to gain it.
That's it.
I guess it's like martial arts or anything you know, go through and to get to the the real knowledge. Yeah, if you really want to take it serious.
Uh yeah, I guess when it comes to magic, uh, I guess. I mean, I guess it depends on how fast you want this to happen. But uh yeah, I mean, like I guess.
All right, yeah, now the definition of magic for me will be uh, you.
Know, I always have to take it to an extreme.
I would say again, definition of magic are crossing the abyss is working on yourself and having any experience with God that I do think involves a death to get to that point. I mean, even in that, if you want to really think about it, that is the ultimate sacrifice. You're gonna give up the flesh and blood. I'm gonna give up possibly podcasting again. I'll give up you know, people that i'm you know that I have relationships with, or I have love for, you know, things that I
have fallen in love with in this world. I'll have to give all of that up, possibly not even maybe things won't go right and I won't come back. So you're giving up like some serious shit to have that experience now, And if you know how I look at it, if death is a part of that, and from my experience, whenever I've crossed the abyss and I have come back and opened up my eyes, there isn't like a faith anymore. There's a knowing in certain things. It's really hard to explain.
First you'll probably see visions that will actually like confirm it's hard to explain, like almost like flashing things that are like you just somehow get something out of it, and like even opening up it sounds a lot like matrix with neo.
Oh, I know, komfun nouns and I'm not that.
Drastic, but you know, every time I've ever had a magical experience, I can tell you when I've opened up my eyes. I've understood suff I didn't understand before. I knew stuff that I didn't know before. Uh, you know, I think you will also be shown truths that you may not have been ready for, or when you see certain things or you have these things that are not faith anymore, and it's a knowing and it's completely opposite of what your faith has been your whole life.
That can be really hard.
To swallow and could possibly even drive people mad. So well, I guess what I'm getting at is that like if this was a long drawn out process where maybe people are actually told like, yeah, if you want to have a magical experience, you're gonna have to probably die for a few seconds. And if they were like okay, cool with that, Uh, then you might have to actually tell them, you know, Like to me, I think you would have to be extremely mentally prepare to just unleash magical experiences
onto everybody. And if they weren't, I do think I
mean it probably be interesting. I mean I don't know, like maybe if I like lived somewhere where I didn't have people living around me, it might be pretty interesting to watch, because I do think you'll probably get mass suicides and mass murder and fucking all sorts of crazy shit because people are don't want to even admit what the fuck happened, or they thought they lost their mind, or they think they're schizophrenic now to like the test degree that like, you know some shit, And I do
actually think you will probably see some sick, crazy shit done because people are like what the fuck?
Or you'll got people who are like, wait, what the fuck?
Uh?
I could do some fucking nasty shit now because I understand certain things that I didn't understand before.
I do think it will be a shit show, will be chaotic, and I think it was shitty at first, probably see things we never wanted to see, but I think after that it's done and over with. I do think the better of people would actually outnumber the others and might be okay.
But that's just my opinion.
I think if we were able to flip a switch and then make everybody have a magical experience, this world would be fucking chaos for a little.
Bit, because I don't think we're ready to deal with it.
But if it was something that was a prolonged thing, kind of like what Lisa was saying, maybe it's like, yeah, to work yourself.
Up to it.
I think that could reap benefits, you know a lot better, you know whatever, but it would take longer. But that's just my I honestly think this is my opinion too. A lot of serial killers were magicians. Neither they're mk altered and that's why they acted out because I don't think a lot of them are also even told like
go kill. I think some of them just were like acting out because I'm having a magical experience and just didn't know how to sit in their skin comfortably because they were just out of it for too long, or maybe they brought something back.
Or this is another thing too.
When you start fucking with magic, you'll start actually opening up all the parts of your brain. I do believe demons are inside our head. So if you start turning on all the parts of your brain that you haven't turned on before, you're gonna wake up the good and the bad with it. And now you're gonna have a demon that you've never even confronted before because you just woke the motherfuck up. So you better make sure that you're real good in the head before you pull the trigger.
You're gonna have to deal with maybe some shit when you open up your eyes, and I don't think most people would be able to do that.
Yeah, I have to just second what next set? It is quite profound, really, and also I believe that about serial killers because it does actually make sense. They would translate horrific things that they saw in a magical experience the quote unquote carnal ground, as we would call it. They see that, And yes, you do see that, but that's as an next set. It's also your own mind. So how do you perceive that? How do you take that?
Do you take it in a sick o way? Or do you kind of come back and be like, yeah, I'm actually human. The things I saw were crazy, but you know, I'm going to reconcile them and myself and my mind and sort of come back to like a place of like wholeness and oneness or whatever you want to call it. And I think that that's I think that that's a quintessential core of magic really, and so
people can take it in whatever way. Like Lisa was saying, like, did we go through a kind of threshold in twenty twenty, I personally think so, And so I think this is why we saw initially, why some people were attracted to truth or attracted to Q or attracted to like these things, because I think that those were illuminant events. Now how much did people take of them? I think the whole point was not to get caught up in the narratives, or rather to just take it as an illuminant event.
Like I wasn't even personally aware of Q like at all. I had no idea existed. Oh you're lucky, so I can just look back at it. And then there are people who have looked at it in a more magical way, and they kind of are like, Okay, there are like there are actually interesting metaphysics in it, whether without judgment, you're just you know, just true neutral.
Yeah. I so, I we'd probably should wrap this up pretty soon here. But I I kind of liken it to people that take psychedelics that aren't ready to you know, when you when you take any hallucinogens and you're not ready for that experience. I mean I've I've seen it myself when I was younger, you know, like you know, teenagers, you know, like yeah, this guy, you know, my friend took some MASSID and freaked the fuck out because they're
not ready for that experience. But I guess if you're ready for it, and you're you're a psychonaut or something, then you're gonna be able to deep dive and come out okay. But we're not all equipped for that, and I can't say that I am totally either, you know.
So yeah, yeah, one thing I even I've said before just from my experiences, uh like if you know, I've had these magical experiences and it's just like just even for me as a mind fucker, it was just like, if that exists, why the fuck am I stuck here?
You know?
So like even me dealing with that and even trying to wrap up, like wrap my mind around that, I'm like just like, okay, so like where did I go wrong?
Like what went wrong?
Like that was that was an experience that It's just like, if that's real, what the fuck is this?
It's just it's hard to wrap.
Your mind around because it's it's almost like it is almost like ultimate freedom and experiencing this pure love.
So you know, And this is another thing I even want to add to.
Why even you know, giving everybody a magical experience right away is really bad is because in my opinion, I guess maybe I.
Can liken it to drugs in a certain sense.
I mean, I'm assuming, you know, I haven't done everything, but I'm assuming if you shoot heroin, really the only thing that's gonna make you feel like you shot dope is shooting dope. Maybe another opioid to something. But you know what I'm getting out like that is only going to be due to that one thing, magical experience. And I'm just being honest. And again I do think like death is a part of it. When I have my magical experiences besides seeing visuals that are also which only
happen and it's only it's repetitive. Every time I do it, I see the same shit, and there are feelings in my body that I will get and I will experience before I cross over, and those visuals and those experiences physically that I feel the only time I ever have that or ever feel that is due to that experience.
The only time I will feel that.
Physical experience and feel that, I guess coming out of the flesh is due to that. So I guess what I'm getting at That's the only time you're going to feel it. So if you really really really liked it, which I think people will it can almost be addictive, and now you're starting to really fuck with something that's very dangerous. And I do think people will You'll turn into Kanye West or Joe Biden if you abuse it.
So I think you'll.
Get people that are very you know, oh my god, that was amazing here to experience that again and will fuck themselves up physically and mentally. Yeah, because I could even say, like, I did it a bunch of times in one week, because I just I like, I was just like, that was amazing. And that's the only you know, I've said on the show. You know, I stopped because I could see it becoming addictive and I don't think that's good.
Yeah, well, guys us start to wrap this up. It's kind of hard to so we kind of went from talking about the Olympians to Zoroastrianism and magic and the responsibility with it. So I don't know exactly how you guys want to wrap this up. But what kind of words would you like to say to kind of finalize this?
Anyone so many I'll do, oh you know what, I'll go real quick. I'm sure they'll say something like really profound. They're a lot better than me, So I'll just throw in something that I would like to try to say a lot when I was going on shows recently, because I was kind of covering the topic.
But I do want to say for your listeners.
Just in case they've never heard the show before and haven't heard me say this.
It's just something I.
Do want to throw out there, just for people to look at things differently. When it comes to a cult symbolism, I really do think that a lot of it, especially in sigils and especially Italian Renaissance art and Catholic art, a lot of that is depicting the inside of the eyeball and part of the brain.
You know.
That may sound crazy, but start studying the eyeball and what it looks like and this and that, and I guarantee you'll start seeing religious shit in there. And again, like I was talking about before, you know, and I'm considering that, believe it or not, I do consider that giving away secrets that aren't supposed to actually be known. And another one that I'm going to say right now, which I've said on the show, I do believe that some of the secrets of secrets of the mysteries and
a lot of symbolism and parts of stories. It's in there, and people will never understand the story completely unless they have the experience of dying. So I just want to let people know that I do think that is actually just like that movie Flatliners. People want to go check it out. It's people putting themselves out on purpose so they have this experience and when they come back, yeah, the same shit coming out of my mouth, they'll know stuff.
They'll be different. You're not the same anymore.
Uh.
I do think that is.
An actual Like again, expressing the feelings that you had in the visuals that you've had in sigils and art is huge, and I don't you know, that is a thing that I don't think people will fully grasp unless they've had that experience, or they start entertaining that just like Jesus tells you you gotta fucking die, you start entertaining that this death and rebirth that everybody talks about, the death may have to be literal.
Yes, it's scary, but it might actually be true. All right, I'm.
Done, awesome, mic Drop, How can we follow that up here?
Yeah?
Exactly, yeah, go go.
I actually don't have anything more profound than that for sure, but I think the I think Nick was on fire tonight. I think everything he said was one hundred percent true. I think as close to the truth as you can really say. It's really fundamentally about these experiences, these kind of thurgic surgical climbings of the tree, I guess, And so I think that that's fundamentally like the nature of our realities, which is also contained in our minds. So
be careful about what you put in your minds. And number one, and be careful what you believe. And it doesn't mean that you have to. It's not about paranoia or fear, like to bring up something Lisa said, It's about sort of overcoming that and realizing that actually there are deeper understandings. It's not about good or evil, it's not. It's just about what you take of it and what you do with it, and you have agency over yourself, like Nick was saying, like people in the ocall community,
I think he's seizing me because I've lately been setting him. Oh, a mercury is in combustion and all this stuff that I never used to. For two years, I never would say anything about astrology, and then I started to a few weeks ago. So that's okay, Nick. I accept that because I always say, like astrology is just a it's just a sign post or a guide post. It's not it doesn't really matter if it's real or not real.
It's like how you take it. Do you want to be Like the planets can be considered arcons, so you know, like do you want to be ruled by the archons or do you want to be ruled by yourself?
See again, that's basically what I think even when.
It comes to astrology. And sorry it's robens, we're closing down. But like again, if you look at the symbols and you think of the stories that you get from the.
Zodiac, I do think that all applies to ether. You know what's going on in a person when they have a magical experience. It's almost like you're breaking devices. And I don't want to get into it too much, but again I do think those stories in that sense, it is telling you that. But again, like I agree with you too what you were saying.
You have to know the stories. I think that's really important too. Is like Nick was even referencing, so you wouldn't know it exactly. It's like the both of those things together. It's it's understanding, wisdom and understanding. That's exactly what it is. If you want to look at think of in a cabalistic way, it's wisdom and understanding together. So exactly what Nick said, Yeah, one hundred percent agree.
It's the You have to know the text and you have to have the experience, and when you put those things together, then you get your knowledge.
Awesome, Okay, and now that leaves me and both of those were hard to follow, but I will say this, I know that, and I apologize to the listeners and to you that you know, it did seem like we're.
All over the place.
We started with three hundred, I mean with Olympians and three hundred and then kind of ended on this, you know, magical experience in physiology. However, and in part part of the episodes that we cover are like that. And if we suspend our belief in terms of having things organized, what we I believe are doing, especially we did on this episode is we're placing pieces of the puzzle in the right side to be later moved over and locks together.
Right now, they look like puzzle pieces just scattered on the table.
That's what they look like. Right now.
But if you continue to listen, and you continue to learn, and you continue to seek, you'll finally start to put pieces together. And that's really what I think the truth or community, the conspiracy community is trying to ultimately hopefully accomplish. And that's what I think this episode really highlighted on, is that we brought in a couple pieces of knowledge and hopefully someone somewhere will be like, oh, that puzzle piece fits here.
So that's what I'd like to land on and thank you for having us.
Oh yeah, thanks for coming in guys. That's this is exactly what I wanted to do. I wanted to start out with that, but I knew it wouldn't stay there. I wanted to start out with the Olympians, but I knew it wouldn't stay there. I like, how can we stay there when we start talking about magic and going there? So this is exactly where I wanted to go, except I didn't know where it was going to go. So thank you guys for coming on. You joined an awesome show.
Awesome great work you guys. You occult rejects. Is how many of you are are there? I've kind of that's something I don't.
Know right now, and it's staying this way in case anybody happens to hear this no more, We're not taking any more applications. We've gone through our growing pains, and I'm quite happy where we are right now.
There is a total of twelve of us.
Wow, yeah, so, and I kind of wanted to keep it that way from it just sounds good, and it is nine men and three women, so you know, we got to keep the ninety three going. So so but yeah, yeah, yeah, there was a bunch of us. Not everybody is you know. Uh again, everybody has their own forte. Everybody's a little bit different, and everybody comes on with the same shows. But I even wanted to like that, you know. But uh, I think everybody that I have on the show is
the best at what they're doing. And I'm very lucky to uh right now as it stands, I'm very lucky, i'd say, to be working with the people I'm working with now. You know, I have zero anxiety of a podcasting and I have a really good time and I learn a lot with the people I'm using now, So that's a blessing, you know, And and I do believe that that is some of the benefits of magic. You know, uh, you know, that's like just one thing. I know we already like wrapped it up, but like one thing I
do want. I just want to leave with people. You know, with magic, especially magic with the k it could be the most beautiful experience that somebody can have with themselves in God that will change them so much that I mean, this is I do think is when you really have to not worrying about the judgment of character. You know, after you have that experience, you can either be a very manipulative person or you can share your story and help you know, I'm no different, no special, I am
not special. If I can have a magical experience, anybody can magic. If you have a magical experience, it's going to be the most beautiful thing you've ever had. In my opinion, after you've had that, you need to share that with everybody else and let them know how they can have their own. And I do think magic in that sense would change the world for better. And it's
not bad. Magic is not always bad. I think all three of us here and the rest of the show would say magic is having a spiritual experience with God and having some understanding, you know, and and being blessed with that experience. You know, that can change the world. It's not all bad, but that's what I'm getting at. You know, magic is not all bad. So you know, don't don't worry if you're gonna put on the Aicle Rejects or not. You know, Satanists, you know, we're not
promoting bad stuff. There is actually benefits, I think to having a magical experience.
Everybody should have a magical experience because when I got graduated high school years ago and I saw what people were doing every day, I was like, there's got to be more to the world than just going to work every fucking day. You know, this is not it. This can't be it, and it's not so we but you have to experience magic too, and synchronicity and well psychedelics helped me, but you know, all that just to really see what this world's really made out of, not just
what's been put for us to do. So thank you guys for coming on, and we'll do it again sometime and check out the Occult Rejects. Everyone that they got a ton of shows, probably all podcast players. You guys have a website. I didn't plug that we do.
We have one this called Occult Research Institute dot org where some of the regions contributed into like a literary format of content. So if you'd like to consume your content like that checks out a culte research into too.
John Wick.
All right, well, Jen Lisa Nick, thanks for coming on the show and we'll be in touch and thanks for everything. Thanks so much, mess appreciate it.
All right, close your eyes, look into the darkness, find the blazing start focus on it will be called the eclipse. Don't feel looky, sure we do gues you sh