You see something's going to happen. What?
What's going to happen?
What?
I welcome to the Occult Rejects. This episode, I got the same people that were with me in part one. I got my partner in crime, Lisa, the Occult reject med scientists joining us. I also got Jin the ninja from Threshold Saints, and I got jj Vance not the vice president. If you want to check out all of their stuff, their links are in the bottom. And the guest of the hour of the episode today again Heidi, Heidi.
In case there's people who are catching you for the first time, which if they are highly suggested to go back to part one. But if you're going to continue to listen, Heidi, would you like to let everybody know kind of what your deal is and where they can find all your work?
Please?
You bet? You guys have such better names than me. I'm Heidi Love. My parents actually named me that. That's like my real name, and so that's what I go by because why not, right, I Mean, they were kind of crazy hippies, so why not keep it? And I am at the Unfiltered Rise podcast. I'm everywhere podcasts are served.
I do a plethora of things on there, but for my stuff if you search me out, because you probably won't see too much of my stuff on my own channel because that's weird, and you'll just have to look for my name and my podcast. And I talk a lot about the Mormon Church because I was one, and I grew up in it, I was born in it. My family's pioneer Mormons kind of got a hit piece
done on me for saying Mormon royalty. What I mean is my family was royalty and then they came here and they were Mormon, not like Mormon Royalty of the Mormons. I guess they did need to clarify that. So there's that. And today we're going to talk about some more of Howard Hughes and exactly how the Mormon Church always seems to be everywhere we turnaround. Oh yes, thanks so much for having me on ELL.
Yeah, thank you. No, this is an amazing, amazing story. And like again, people haven't caught part one. Please stuff from there, you know, but this is definitely going to be a spider web, and from what I'm guessing, probably at least three to four parts.
So yeah, it goes. So this one today will be more circled around like early days Mayhew, and then we're going to get into Watergate and then after that, and Watergate's so important to this whole picture because and also Howard Hughes's death and so when you talk about Howard Hughes's death, what is like the ramifications afterward?
Where does the money go? Who gets all that it?
And it also involves Mormons because of course it does. So I'm present here in one second. Let me get this screen ready, And it's an interesting dive I never expected to go down. So that's kind of a fun piece of it too, just because.
You never know where it's going to take you.
It got weird. So that's that's all I know.
So I've got that pulled up. I'm gonna send present.
I know one thing we discussed last time, Hattie was, you know, one of the questions you pointed out was kind of the question mark surrounding whether or not Howard Hughes with some sort of spook or CIA operative, you know. And I know we discussed the Glomar ship in the last last podcast, which I think that's a traffic because that's where the term glom Lomar response comes from.
I belief in regards to freedom of information, I requests.
Right, And I do think it's super interesting that he was kind of obsessed with Atlantis. And then if you look at the name and and look at where that comes from, like the project that they called it, and it's an Atlantean project, and so I just I just think it's very strange.
I didn't bring that one with me, but.
It is definitely a name of Atlantis, and so I just find it weird that not Glomar they called it. What was the name of that the actual project? Do you remember, jj.
Oh, I don't remember the actual project.
Yes, that's it right there. Yes, that is an Atlantean term. And so I do think Howard Hughes was dialed in. I do think he has the knowledge of like what people would like to see in the future released, and I do think it's going to play into today and so like our day and age, not this presentation, although it does. And so can you guys see this slide
okay for sumacor yes, okay? Perfect. So a little bit about Hughes and what happened on our last one is we were kind of wrapping up with it, you know, one of the agents for the Mayhew kind of organization which he gets labeled into the Mormon mafia, and he's
not a Mormon, so it's kind of fun. But he was a very big spy and he was excessively dialed in when we talk about hits, yeah, and so he was very dirty, completely involved in also the Bay of Pigs, which is super important, and he does have Watergate ties as well. So we'll get kind of talk with him a little bit today, but not as much. He's going to come up from time to time, but he's not the main focus because he was kind of the last time.
But Assumer Corporation was kind of this thing that they all fought over and it was funny because Howard Hughes owned it, but he did he wasn't on his own board, and so it kind of changes company hands a lot, and Mayhew at one point was running it and then Gay ends up running it and he's the Mormon guy and so it gets interesting. But Mayhew never goes away. May Hugh's too big to go away. He's kind of
the too big to guys. So summacor wanted to. They kind of had all of which Suma is also means the top it means, and he had another like a housing development in the area, kind of the same thing as Mount Olympus, and it was called something Suma's Something, and I was like, this is funny, little travel over, but that's just a little tangent. So Sumacor owned all of his corporations underneath of it, and he was getting
killed in taxes. He was just desperate to get out from underneath the tax levies that he had, and he didn't quite know how to do it. And so this guy Bennett comes into the picture heavier on this episode. And Bennett, we talked a tiny bit about last time, and there's a book out and can you still see
me a little bit? I don't know if you can see this book, but Age of Secrets and Gerald Bellett is the one that was dictated to But this is John Meyer's diary and he is a huge player in this case, and he kind of blew He blew the lid off everything on this and so everybody else kind of kept their secrets and pay prosecuted him and tried to throw him in prison for murder. So I think
he was just sick of it. And that's how this whole story kind of comes out because Bennett never did come clean, not even during Watergate did he come clean, and so we don't get this information until super Way later on Bennett and Bennett is a principal client at the time of the Watergate scandal, but he also was completely involved in the whole Howard Hughes business, in fact
being a part of SUMA Corporation himself at times. He also was a twenty five year or twenty three year Senate grandson, so his not grandson, his dad was in the Senate, I believe, and then he went in the Senate. And then he's also the grandson of Heber J. Grant,
and so that's important when you're talking in profits. And he was as an LDS church chaplain from nineteen fifty seven to nineteen sixty nine in the Utah Army National Guard, and he became president of this Robert Mullen Company, and the Robert Mullen Company is going to become very important when we get into this Watergate situation because it's basically
a CIA front for companies, Okay. And he's also kind of trying to work for Hughes under the level to help him get somehow a tax deduction Okay, some way he can stop getting completely raped for taxes, which I mean, come on, I don't blame him, and people love Bob Bennett and I hate to talk about him. And this is when he becomes a senator himself, and I mean I hated. I'm not talking bad about him, just some
of his decisions are interesting. And that's because honestly, he was in the CIA and nobody knew, and he couldn't tell the truth. He didn't even tell the truth later when he's in all the Watergate hearings, like it doesn't come out for a really long time. And during that time, he served in the Army National Guard as a chaplain. He actually was scouted out and was a part of the CIA, but nobody knew this, like nobody. They just
thought he might be an asset or something. And then he becomes integral into Howard Hughes because, like I said, he takes over PR relations director for the summacor nineteen seventy four to seventy eight.
He also secretly worked under George Bush for the CIA. So remember George Bush there, because that's going to be important. And he used this CIA front company.
Like I said, it's a pr Agency, especially for guess who. And this is going to tie in to our friend Justin who I missed desperately. He's great the Mormon Tabino Go choir. So he also doesn't have a whole ton of employees, but one of his employees is super fun guy.
It's E.
Howard Hunt, right, So once you get Howard Hunt in there, you're like, Okay, he purchased this company. He gives you know this E. Howard Hunt a job. Basically he also gives Richard Holmes. It's all this stuff. Like it's basically just cia guys and they're all older at this point and kind of doing their thing. But at the same time, like I said, he's trying to everybody is trying to help Hughes get some sort of tax break. So he's
still helping even though he's doing his thing. Because Mullen Company is not on its own, it's definitely under Hughes. It's still kind of owned through that and we still have May Hugh and he's still putting bugs in everybody's ears for Hughes. And the thing about Hughes is is he is literally desperate to do two things in his life. Number one, get the tax break number two, stop the
Atomic Energy Commission from blowing shit up. Okay, And that's because you know, Howard Hughes had Jack Parsons work for him. I don't know if you guys knew that for a time. Not only Jack Parsons, but he had this guy and he's great. Let me find this paper that worked for him. This guy, so he makes this time machine, he says, and if you look at the symbol, JJ, I'm actually glad you're here today. This was his pamphlet for this
whole nonprofit organization. It's kind of like a religious scientific experiment. I'm going to find it.
Is this that this is that location in the in the California desert like the gravitron.
Yes, yes, yes, yes, and his name is Van something. I gotta find it.
But for a long time there, yes, and it still they still go there.
They did, I think, tear that down, but they still go out there and do the whole like channeling bit. And the funny thing about this guy is very close with Howard Hughes. And listen to this story. He's not a Mormon, but he says this and an angel came to him. I've heard this story before.
JJ, has too, and told him to.
Stop blowing shit up basically and make this machine. And this was gonna rejuvenate and like basically time travel people backwards so that they could be more youthful. And Howard Hughes was kind of obsessed with stuff like this because he'd been sickly half of his life.
I mean, like now he's kind of sickly in a more.
Well, I question, self inflicted way, but we'll just leave it self inflicted for.
Now with his drug habit. But he had a ton of pain.
He had crashed a lot of times, but even as a kid, he had multiple ailments. So you know, when we talk about this and the integratron, I'm sure he's one hundred percent listening.
But basically, you know that Crowley said these.
Bombs kind of open things, and Parsons also talked about this, and I think they are just trying to shut the door. And he's like obsessed with this, and that's where John Meyer comes in. He literally hires John Meyer to petition and go about following through to the Atomic Energy Commission to stop this because he's so upset by it. He's just like it can't continue. These people started to church over it. You can see there insignia is it's strange and they all kind of and Hughes paid for that
to be done, all of it. Van Tassel there it is okay. So Van Tassel does this for him under all of this money, and Hughes is just obsessed with that and the taxing, so the taxing doesn't go away for a long time.
And finally he decides, you.
Know what, through Mayhew and through Moulin company, he decides he's going to petition these people and pay them off, okay. And when he does this, it causes serious problems. I dare say it causes more problems for him than the actual like break in and the whole thing, like it's
it's just blows up in his face. And Don Nixon, his brother, is a big part of where this started because originally he takes a quarter million dollar loan from Hughes, the loan that never had to be paid back, and this becomes part of the scandal, and then it goes into a whole nother thing which we all know with Watergate that he was also paid more money underneath Hughes for his re election campaign.
But this reelection campaign was like a shell campaign.
There was like none there was no proof that it was really happening, or like where the money really went or nothing about it was. Okay, a guess who organizes this whole campaign for him? Two guesses? Because I have named two.
Anybody want to guess.
The Mormon? Of course?
Pop?
Right, Nope, it's Bennett this time. Bennett is all over this. And so Bennett is the one behind it. And this is where Bennett gets sketchy because at first people are like, oh, he's just tangled up in it because domb Howard hunh and he's just dumb, and you know it's him, and people really defend him to this day, like I will tell you guys, he's kind of want to talk about Mormon royalty. He's way up there. I mean literally, Heber J.
Grant's grandson. And so when we talk about this stuff, it's kind of it's kind of hard because I know the TV, you know, true blue Mormons are going to come after me and say, oh, he was just a nice guy that got you know, caught up in it because he owned the company. The company itself was a CIA shell, so that's not necessarily true. So all this stuff starts to come out. You know, Hughes loaned Nixon cash and his family cash and all this stuff, and
it's just not it's not good. And then on top of it, we know that there were different factions involved with not only getting Hughes out of town, which brings in these guys all this dirty money. It brings in the mob, it brings in like all the three letter agencies, and it brings in the Bay of Pigs. And that's why and is quoted saying, I don't think you want
to open this up. This is a like a whole condensation of his big report that he said, because the American people don't need to know about that right now, basically because if they were to find out exactly what was happening with the Bay of Pigs, it was going to upset everyone. And he just he was involved with so many things, and let alone with Hughes's involvement of the things, it got completely blown out of the water.
It completely devastated the trust of everybody. And the plumbers, a few of them, I think were it became Mormons after the fact, is what I read that they weren't Mormon before, but they became Mormon, and all this So what the truth is, I don't know, but I do know that Mormons are all over this, including Hughes's exit out to the Bahamas, because Hughes's exit to the Bahamas is done by guy named James O. Golden, who is huge up in the CIA and FBI, and he actually ends up running Inner Pool.
He's he's big, and when.
We get into him, he's the one that actually is involved with this paper right here Resorts International, because that's where they took Hughes. They took him to a Resorts International hotel and those all go back to the Mary Paynt company. So I think when you look at this full picture, to go to perm index, you have to lay this ground because you're like, well, who's that and why are they there?
And what does that matter to some mobster guy or whatever.
Well, everybody's got their hands in the cookie Jart, and I mean everybody. So the one thing Hughes did after he gave Nixon all this money was say like, you need to push through my medical company so that it can be my shell company for taxes, and he got it to be done. Nixon did it after the IRS denied it, and so it all looks bad like that. I'm pretty sure why he just stepped down and didn't
want to go through with everything. People also started dying like crazy, And I mean, if I were him, I definitely wouldn't want to have.
All those desks put on my conscience.
You know, that's a lot.
But other than that, also, Nixon was a big fan.
Of space and this whole you know, alien stuff, and there's talk back and forth about whether or not he put a time capsule in the White House about alien disclosure, which is curious because he was extremely close with Trump and he always told him, you should run for president, you'll win and if you get in there, this is where this time capsule is. This is just the conspiracy end of it. Of course, no proof on that, but there is proof that they were friends. You know, they talked,
they were close, and they definitely knew each other. So when you talk about these people all being in bed together, I think it's funny because the other one that's going to come up next time, probably unless we run through this is Cone and that's Trump dressed like that at Roy Cohne's birthday. And you know, people have postulated different things about their reputation together. I don't know, but I do know this. They were very close, Okay, close enough.
It shouldn't have ended how it did. And when you look at the pictures of them speaking together in different things, you go, hm, well, Trump comes up, and I bring up Roy because Resorts International runs straight into Donald Trump.
He ends up running it for a time. Actually they had a big fight.
Over who was going to get the power of it, and so he ends up taking it for a time. And it was, you know, completely engulfed with the organized crime. And when you look at that, you know, I know people want to say, oh, Trump's a good guy. I don't know. I'm watching for the fruits of his labor. I'm not going to diss on him, but I'm just saying you have to look at the full picture when we're looking at all of this. And then also how obsessed is Trump with space stuff? You know, he's got
Elon in there. We're talking. Then we get into weird speculation on that with you know, the whole Werner von Braun book. And this is the picture I told you guys about last time with Werner von Braun in Mormon theological films. And I don't think these things are accidents. You know, I think that you know, what people have said and talked about is when this whole business came out with Aliens, you know, they wanted to guard that secret, and JFK wanted to work with the Russians and they
had just had the war. And this picture here shows they're kind of together, Werner von Braun and JFK. And he dies two weeks after this is taken. And I find that super interesting, knowing that the Germans and the Russians have a very contentious relationship at this point. I don't think they want to share anything with the people
that help them lose the war. So it gets into some weird weeds and you know, we've taken all the Operation paper Clip people and put them to work, which you know, if you've looked at anything from Utah, and you know anything about Thiacoll and different Hormon space projects, you know that there was probably something that came here and let alone the relationship enough for Werner von Braun to be invited into a movie that no one else was in except for Mormons.
I find it super curious. And so is this odd?
It's all together odd, and when you put it all together with the hearings and Hunt and even their background. You know, if you get into Hunt's background, do you guys know about his background? Like back back before Watergate.
Like Oss Days or Cia Days.
Well, so Cia Days. He was the guy that was basically, you know, down to help with like any of the UFO recoveries. He was on that whole situation, and he worked with Banister, but he also worked with Banister, worked with Mayhew for ten years out of the Chicago offices when he was with the FBI. So all these people are like lengthly not just like oh I met him once at a dinner. You know, these are big relationships. And all of this kind of goes together with the Mormons,
and I'm like, why are they always there? There's always a person that pops up that just happens to be associated with the church. And then when you get into the Watergate stuff with the Bay Pigs, you have to go to Bush and the whole thing with Howard Hughes and Zapota Oil. They were using his island and the Bushes rented it to for their drilling operation, which wasn't it wasn't a drilling operation, but that island in itself is considered to be possibly one of Atlantis Islands, and
so maybe they were drilling for something. I don't think it had to do with oil. But they were also training the Bay of Pigs people there, and this is a little picture of just their training and what they were doing. It was all an anti Castro training. And this is the name of the k Seal is the island. And I was like, that's, you know, all all owned by Howard Hughes. He just leased it to the Bushes. And so even two of the ships involved in the Bay of Pigs, one of them was named the Barbara.
So Bush is all over this on top of it, and I think that you know, he, you know, Bush ties here soon. He's got some major ties with Permandex and Demorn Shield and so all of this makes sense when you put it in a big whirlwind, I guess, because like you said, it's a spider. It's not gonna it's not going to stop. I mean it just like I almost have to organizing it in my mind to like present. It is so difficult because you're like, Okay, which part do you want to say first? Which part
do you talk about? You know the fact that you want to talk about that Trump named one of his casino hotels, the Atlantis, during the time he owned this stuff, Like,
I think somebody knows something. And when you go down that road, you know about his uncle John and he's supposedly the protege to vanover Bush, who not related to the regular president Bush, but vanover Bush is who's protege tesla And this goes to aliens, and I just went, You've got to be kidding me, because I've never really I mean, I was like, yeah, whatever, I mean, there's realms, sure, you know, there's things out there. I'm not want to
like just let it go. But also like when you look at this stuff, you go, Okay, well what do they all know? Right? And then you go back to that weird story about the alien visiting that.
Guy, and then you go, what does the Mormon Church know.
The key? And once again we get back to the keys, and I'll tell you know Howard Hughes trusted them an awful lot even though they did him dirty towards the end. And then you get into what happened at the end, and this gets back to the gaze and not gay people, the gays last name, and one more picture before I move forward. This is a fun one of Nixon with Prescott Bush and who Jack Ruby. Yeah, this is just you know when you said it was a spider web,
it just explodes and it goes clear into today. So sorry, I would just want to say no, no, please interrupt because I can't.
See before you get too far. I just it's a very it's an open ended question. It can be Heidi, JJ, Lisa, anyone. Uh, but I don't quite understand why his financials were in such turmoil if he if he also was in charge of several CIA fronts, is what you're saying, If I understand,
and so shouldn't the financial management be more? You know, even though that those are like a lot of black book stuff, like they usually are good book book keepers from like all the work that Nick and JJ have done and like showing that kind of like organized crime, Like.
Usually they're pretty good at books.
Are you talking about Hughes or yes, Hughes Hughes Okay, so you're because.
Why couldn't they change the or was there a great change in the code, and so that's sort of what contributed to it, Like I I don't I think I'm maybe historically ignorant.
Now you're fine, he just had so much money and he owned so many corporations. By this time, he was literally banking in the dough like he was bringing in tons of money. He doesn't have any kids, he doesn't have a wife really at this point, he doesn't have
a whole ton going out. And he wasn't this big philanthropist until he opens up the Howard Hughes Medical And so that's right there, when it becomes a whole different ballgame, right, And when this happens, it like changes the whole dynamic of everything because then also he's bankrolling the CIA, just so you guys know, and that there's been lots of proof, like even these little projects like even the Glomar he bankrolled that, even you know, all these other things he's
bankrolled and bankrolled and bankrolled. Now did he make money back off them? Sure, he had contracts, you know, exclusively to them. I in my opinion, I think.
Everybody was splitting that dough.
I don't.
I I think this was more mafia than the mafia.
You know, That's what I was gonna say.
HEII not only yeah, not only to that point, but then you have the warring factions for power within that mafia right, and it includes the literal mafia, because you just you've already paying this interesting dynamic of these varying factions of folks that seem disparate, you know, from from the out from the outside looking in.
Especially when you're talking Permadex.
Yes, you know, is the epicenter of kind of as you said, said the epicenter of this activity.
You got Joseph.
Bonano, who's the the Banano crime family, but.
Head of the head of the all the.
Five families in New York at the time, Roy Cone, and then CIA guy himself, Clay Shaw.
That's the integral figure in the Garrison investigation.
Absolutely, and we can even go there because I mean, you know, I I never know how long things are going to take. But if you know about Permandex, you know, you know who's on the board because you just named some the others are like fascists and like the attorney I didn't bring my notes down for that, but the
attorney for the Savoy family. Like, you're talking about some really important people and they're bankrolled by other people, and Permitex has been said to have bankrolled I'm going to I'm going to minimize this so I can see you guys basically bankrolled the assassination hits on not only JFK, but RFK and MLK, all of them. And you know, yes, yep. And they tried, They tried and tried and tried with him. And what permandex stands for is a permanent index of people.
So this is the hidden meaning permanent index of people to assassinate. Whereas they say, it's like a permanent industry development, but it's another show company. It really isn't anything. But yet here they all come playing again and and like you mentioned.
You know, Riboso, Babay Riboso comes.
Up in this, mo Ballots comes up in this Like we're talking about big players when we're talking about these people, and who do they bump into? You know, Trump Cone, Colin ran Colan knows where everybody is buried. He went to his grave knowing that, like for sure.
You know, Nixon's close close associate.
R I'm just going to bring that up.
Yep.
He was actually on the island with baby Riboso when Watergate went down for his like backing story, Yeah, they.
Were actually in the pool together, weren't they. That He always every time that he would vacation or leave the White House instead of going to the equivalenta camp David, he would go down and spend his time with him.
Yes, And that's just so strange, like when you look at it and you're looking at like his ties or fascist ties or whatever's happening, and then you find you you like look into it as well with the eyes open of like, I don't know if you guys have heard what Howard He's just said about equal opportunity employment, But it wasn't it was as good as the Mormons.
Talking back when Brigham was the president.
It's not good.
They're racist, and you're you're sitting here going, okay, is this their religion still? Like when they say we won the war but the Nazis never fell. I believe that I one hundred percent believed that this was just a division of a power that got too big because they learned how to tap into stuff, and the stuff I'm talking about would be a cultic in nature, and there's so many stories about that that I do think they
were imparted a lot of knowledge. You know, there's tons of different things that advance during that timeframe that you see the Germans just go and take off, like literally take off and Howard Hughes was all about it.
They said they there's a rumor that he had his own hangar at Area fifty one, and so you know, he's involved in this up to his eye balls, and he certainly says that there are other entities. Whether or not that freaked him out, I don't know, but I do know this. He started peeing in jars and holding back all of his nail He didn't clip his nails, He didn't do all these weird things. But think about it,
where's your DNA? It sounds ridiculous until you know the answer, and you go, hmm, was he just trying to keep himself from.
Being replicated or something? Or who knows what?
You know, they're making medical advances at the same time they're doing you know, Howard Hughes medical industry. They are known for developing crisper technology and all kinds of sketchy stuff. They're involved with Gates And it doesn't surprise me. Bill Gates and Microsoft Corporation is the LDS Church's number one holding right now. And when you talk about people not being qualified to run the books, you can look at Elon Musk and Jared Birshall runs his books, and he's
not qualified to do any of that. So you're just like, Okay, what's going on here, mister tunnel digger because that's where they met, at the boring Company.
You know.
Sorry, Heidi, I just want to say one thing really quick.
Is I think with the peeing in bottles and the here now so that you know it's not a way, but honestly, it makes perfect sense to me. I'm sure it makes perfect sense to that. You do not you do not want people to get a hold of your personal effects. This isn't obviously a thurgical thing, but it's you know, a we'll call it village sorcery. So yeah, like you don't want like witchcraft. That's really what that is. It's like, if you have these personal effects, you can
do things to them. But then also the peeing in bottles, although that sounds the funniest, actually those are called witch bottles if you make them properly, and you can rebuke magic done to you. This is the idea if you put in that. But also certain things usually like broken glass, needles, blue be all that stuff, so doing.
Carrying it, yeah, for like property, all kinds of stuff. And here's the thing. I when you step back and look at things that sound crazy, especially like Mormons. I'm always like, that sounds crazy. Joseph Smith said people live on the moon. And then you find out about different occultic things, or study theosophy and anthroposophy, and you go, oh, got it. And then they live on the sun is
Brigham Young's and you're like, huh okay. And so you start learning about stuff and it sounds crazy on the surface, and I don't think they want it fixed, because it's better to sound like that than to explain, oh, we might be using this for like what you said, you know, like I mean, if you heard that from a person that has like think of the most straight laced people ever, you know, you're not going to like that. As the normal congregation of people in a church, for sure, they're
going to be pretty upset with that. They're going to start wondering, like, what we don't do witchcraft stuff? I heard all that was lies, and then they're going to go look it up, which is definitely not what the church wants. The church definitely doesn't want that. And so I did find my little paperwork on the board, and so we've got Lewis Mortimer Bloomfield. And then we've got
Fernick Nause. He's the former Prime Minister of Hungary. I'm assuming everybody knows about who Bloomfield is, probably, but he's you know, high up in Canada.
He's running a lot of these kind of same schemes.
There we've got Giorgio Mantello, Roy Cone, Joseph Bonano, Jean de Manil, Paul Reagan, Denski, count Gettera's de Spatafora, and that is Mussolini's guy. So I mean you're wondering, like, wow, where did all these people come from? Ham Selgameyer and he's a banker in Basel, Carlo de Oh my gosh, uh Analio I think attorney house of Savoy, max Hegelman Muner, Shorboggi, Giuseppe Ziagotti, he's an Italian fascist, Florenk florenk h Simon Fay, he's from Hungary. And clay Shaw.
So why would you have the people that literally are probably involved in all.
This go back and be on multiple commissions to figure things out or like put these people in power?
And why is clay Shaw in with fascists.
And people from other countries right where with all the stuff he knows. So then you're like, oh, wow, what's happening here? And there's this little there's this little diagram that I found on Permandex and it starts at the crown and then it goes down and it goes to Permandex, which goes to Division five FBI, and then it goes down in the middle to the World Wildlife one thousand and one club, which I have to do an episode on sometime or through this whatever, but it's huge through
this whole situation. And then the other branch goes to honder And I'm just telling you guys, like when you look at all this and the companies that supposedly helped with like funding all this stuff, you go, oh, this sounds sketchy, right, Why is the monarch involved? Like why are all these houses of Savoy and like the monarchy and all these different things involved, Like it doesn't sound right, you know, And then you you look at.
It also to your family before in regards to the how these things are continuing on to our modern day, these other examples that continued on as well, even though Permandex essentially you know, goes away after the scandal, all of those folks not the personnel involved, but the groups and the power centers involved in that, and that board all up here again in the Vatican Bank scandal.
Well and not only yeah, not only that, but the Mormons again through Haliburton, And so when you look at who's financing, right, So you're looking at all these people and you're like, oh wow. And also what happens we run into people that are influencing our next episode RFK, Right, you run into like who exactly why is Lee Harvey Oswald interested in any of this?
Oh? Well, you know, why is Ruth Payne?
Why are they having seances in the woods with asters and all these weird things? Like they're doing some crazy stuff, you know, and when you talk about it, it just sounds insane. But then you look at it and you look at the backers, right, we get Bell helicopters.
Well, you know they hired Dorenberger, I mean, like the Dorenburger.
Like, I'm like, what is happening? And it's because they had that knowledge, right, they know all the secrets of all the things. But they've shut all that down pretty much unless they want to start Wi FI and then they did that.
But other than.
That, they're not Aliens. Yes, nationalism right the more.
Then yes, Well, if we want to get into Mormons and Nazis, that's a whole So I mean, like think of it. They're really you know Jay Rubin Clark. You can look him up if you guys think I'm not telling the truth about the Mormons. They are literally the same ideals as the Nazi regime at that time. And they were the ones that kind of started the whole genealogy thing and they helped people like started it to be more mainstream, we'll say, they started helping with the Nazis.
They said, look, let us into your church records and stuff and will help you prove if a girl is worthy to date. And you started to have to hang your three generations back to go dat a girl to make sure an eye. This is not my words, this is a quote to make sure you were not a granddaughter of a Jews. That is what they said.
And so I'm telling you guys like they literally were in bed with the Nazis.
You can look up like the Olympics, then you get into the stuff that Justin talked about, like with them visiting and going to the Olympics and talking all about it in her journal and everything, and she's all happy about how wonderful they treated them, and you're just like whoa. And then Mormon Moroni and the Swastika by David C. Nelson, that book talks all about how you know they were Heber J. Grant was at a banquet there with a big insignia over the table. We'll just say that because
I want to get in trouble. I don't know what I can say. And then mission presidents, you know that we're putting up signs saying no Jews allowed. Like they were completely on board. They were doing the salute, they were doing all the things. They were along with them, because you know, they were white supremacists pretty much at that time too, you know, and they blame it, but I.
Think a lot of that is comes from their heritage though, right, So, like you're mentioning the alien seance with the DuPonts, the Asters and gang and the Pains and whatnot. Well, the Grants, the Bushes, these folks all come from Connecticut and Massachusetts settlements in early early Americas. They so I think this blue this quote unquote blue blood lineage of these folks will manifested things like the Mormon Church permeates throughout their family tree.
The alien.
Yeah, absolutely, and I think they well, you know, if you talk to you know, anybody that's a Mormon FLDS person, when you get to the Kingstons, they literally will tell you that the bloodline of Jesus Christ and so yeah, they want and they're inbreeding and making sure they keep their bloodlines pure. So they take this very seriously. It's not like it's funny to say it, like haha, but like that's a real thing for these people. And they're like, well,
that's just FLDS. That's not the real Mormon Church. Where do you think it came from? Came from the top, you know, it didn't get split off until the government ties started coming in and they wanted to have statehood.
You know that that's a real They were forced, they were forced to make these changes.
They weren't theological changes, but they were you know, beamed in from you know, no no.
And one of the monuments, I can't remember which one it was that they were building and everybody sent a stone in to have this monument built. I can't remember which monument in DC it was. But the Mormons weren't completely finished with their statehood yet and they set like the Masonic eye with the Beehive State, sure, the State of Deseret, And they're the only ones that like had anything like that.
So that tells you a whole lot of answers.
And it's just funny to me because I'm like, Okay, obviously you said they're channeling you know, these beings, Well they say they're the Egyptian deity. Well what is Joseph Smith completely obsessed with Egypt? He's buying mummies off people, you know, I mean, it sounds ridiculous, but it happened, you know. And then he's got the Book of Abraham, which became a huge problem for them, and you know,
he's saying his writings are reformed Egyptian. I just think, you know, he talked to something that told him some things, and that's really what I feel.
But I don't know, it's too hokey and weird to just make it up.
And then and then.
Also it correlates with other people's stories.
And I'm like, oh, well, that's where it gets more credit, because you're like, this person also said they saw this, and then this person this pond they're all, oh my gosh, they all started religions and so then it gives it, you know, a little bit of clout. But when you're looking into these things and people always say, well, who cares about world wars or Permantex or whatever these things are, Well, they're running things today.
They just changed their name. Yeah, they just changed their name, which, you know, it's kind of frightening knowing that, because you're like, wait, why would you just quit?
Like you fought for all these years to take over like the whole thing Trump and then you just like walked away from it one day. No, you're just passing the torch. You know. They're all in bed together, and and you're right, it's a spider that can't be separated. Like the web is too thick, you know, the spider web is is really intense. And when you start looking
at it, you're like, oh wow. And then you bring in like the aliens, like you said, and when you start bringing that in, I mean, you know, the Nazis were not afraid to talk about what they were doing. That's just here that they're weird like that.
But over there they'll tell you all about it.
And then when you get into Tesla and MG twelve, you know who comes up Banister, and who is Banister working with for ten years again Mayhew, and it goes right back to Howard Hughes. So you're like, Okay, they obviously and clearly know quite a few things that they're not going to share or probably can't, you know. But again, Tesla, you know, I mean people want to say, oh, well,
you know, maybe he didn't really know things. He got arrested for making an earthquake in New York City, like arrested he made an earthquake, and people still have a hard time today like, oh, weather modification, you nutjob. I'm like, okay, we'll go look it up. I mean, he got arrested for it.
Left Tower from a while and that was that what that calls that I.
Think it was.
I can't remember the name of it.
I just remember he got arrested for it, and I thought it was hysterical. But like they try to, you know, hold these people down. Yeah, well, and got in big trouble for I think it was a dare if I remember correctly, And even the people that go forward, like I mean, just for an example, the guy that took Howard Hughes out to the Bahamas and basically kidnapped him. And that's why I say, do I think it was
self induced? No, I think they were drugging him. They found needles in him post mortem, and they were the big steel needles. And back then when you were doing drugs, like, I'm pretty sure you wouldn't want those honk and needles breaking off in your body. He had multiple of them broken off in his body. I do psych I know what causes that. It's not a willing participant.
How long ago was this never good? How long ago was this again? What what year was this around.
Like when he died?
Or yeah, well, I guess what I'm going to get at is, at some point, believe it or not, syringers are not easy to come by. Oh first, if you were junking in the sixties seventies, you're struggling looking.
Yeah, yeah, they were like, oh he had nurses. And I did want to mention another thing about the future. So in nineteen sixty three, the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter day Saints was miserably failing and almost bankrupt. Okay, well nineteen sixty two, So up to nineteen sixty three, they are not doing good, and all of a sudden they hired this guy from Canada, and I've researched him a lot. I will not quit researching him till I
find a little more answers. But I find it fascinating that the year Bennett takes a fall for a whole bunch of stuff in Watergate, right, and just basically lets him brad him and doesn't say he's in the CIA, and he just gets slapped around. Kind of it totally ruined his reputation for a very long time. All of a sudden, the Mormon Church does great, and now like within that year, like all of a sudden, all their problems are gone. Do I think that's a coincidence? Not really.
You know, people are getting paid off left and right, And I don't think that he did that for free. I don't think any of them did it for free. I mean, they had to have some reason. It's not like they're just loyal to a fault for no reason. I don't believe that. Like, if you were in the CIA and they were coming at you with everything they had in court, you don't tell that. It seems strange, you know, I don't.
Think he was interesting dynamic financially speaking, I don't I'm not familiar with that narrative of the sixties. That's certainly something I'm gonna dig into with that Canadian fellow.
But yeah, his name was Nathan.
Nathan.
I thought I wrote it down for.
Another dynamic while you're looking for that, Heidi.
One other dynamic I find interesting at the same time where these Watergate heres are going on and the Mormons are in the US government or beefing, you know, or there's some you know, there's some you know, obviously some disagreements in dynamic there obviously right with whatever's.
Going on, Oh yeah, situation.
Oh yeah, he's going.
To the same stuff with the US government. That's kind of the peak of their Operation snow White. There beef for the US government. So another ancient alien cargo cult at the same time doing these infiltration and spook activities with the US.
Absolutely absolutely, And then you wonder, like, Okay, I know for a fact Thomas D. Smanson has ties. And if you look at these families, and I know Justin mentioned this, none of their children go to their mission here, Okay, Like a lot of kids get called on their mission and go to like Chicago or go to like even some of them go from Salt Lake to Ogden, which I mean, it's just not very far apart. Yeah, and so none of these people though, do They're all international,
all of them, and they're all involved. Like there's always these little ties to either Yale, Skoll and Bones type stuff, which we know Bush was, and so these are brothers, you know, Thomas S. Monson shook Bush. It was it Bush. Yeah, baby Bush's hand and there's a picture of it and they're doing a secret hand shake and it's not Masonic. So I definitely think these people are in a lot higher Like they're all a ton of the Mormons at that time period are in the Birch Society. They're in
secret societies and they're not supposed to be. Remember, they didn't change that till I think it was maybe seven or eight years ago, where you could actually join a secret society and not go against the handbook of the Mormon Church. You're not supposed too. But now they don't care. And Freemason temples and stuff are popping up more and more.
There's like one right down the street from me that was like an old apartment complex and the next thing I know, there's a Freemason flag hanging off the thing a couple of weeks ago, and I was like, WHOA, where did that come from?
You know?
And so now they can do whatever they want, like they're not hiding it anymore, you know. And I mean and not that it's I mean, honestly, it's the same thing. You know, Mormons and Masons are so close anyway, but they hit it for a long time, and a lot of them, like Spencer W. Kimple, I believe it was. Now, don't quote me on this one because I'm not a huntered. He was one of the ones that said he was going to miss the rotary clubs so much when he
got called to be a prophet, you know. And then, like you said, we've got all the people coming in at the same time into government, on and on and on. When these people are supposed to not trust the government. These people have been raised up to what bleed bleed the beast, right JJ, you know, Bleeding the Beast is something that the FLDS still does. But the Mormon inc Is a whole different story now. And I do believe
it went mainstream. I think there were other nods to it, but the most mainstream no was when George A. Smith ended up on the time cover and and it was just like, yep, these are part of the They're part of the club now, you know, and they do you know they bought Westminster Abbey. I just found this out last week. Google know that that happened. Yeah, and they
kept it quiet. You can't tell me that they can build down the street from the Vatican and buy Westminster Abbey at like around the same timeframe and there's not some change in the Guard. There's been a change in the Guard.
I agree with you there for sure. I agree with them.
Yeah.
I think it's money. Yeah, And and and it's like somebody sent it to me and I was like everything I find out about the church is like that's not true. Who I guess it's true. And so it's all over the place, Like you would think that would be something they definitely wouldn't sell, right, Like yeah, right, the important I mean, that's just for me. I would be like, okay. And even the guy that like I said that stole
Howard Hughes, he gets in. Within a year of Howard Hughes being there, this guy that took him there becomes Howard Hughes's tool come and he's like over all of his stuff, and then all of a sudden, the next thing, you know, not even six months, he's not even in the Howard Hills Tool Company for six months, and all of a sudden he gets pulled back over to Organized Crime Section of the Justice Department setting up intelligence. I'm like, and strike teams for this, And I'm like, oh, what
better way to do it? Because you freaking know where everything is. You've been there, You're right there with him, you know.
And he becomes like a head of intertael and you can't hardly find anything about this guy. You got to really dig deep. And I'm just like, wow, okay.
I mean awesome, interesting cares.
Oh he's interesting, James O.
Golden and yeah, he becomes the vice president of Entertail and then after becomes the Crime Section of Justice Apartment of the Organized Crime and I'm like, yeah, because you were organized crime. I mean, it seems funny.
It was your at one point too.
Looks like yep, he was all the things. Man. If you look at his death announcement, it's very interesting. That's a lot of times where you have to go to find anything out on these guys because they keep it on the DL. So hard, you know, it's like very very He was one that was hard to find things about. And actually I don't know that I would have had it not been for old books like this book. It's not that old, the Age of Secrets book. But there
was also another one that was something Spies. I'll find it because I want to give credit where credit's due. But it was very interesting to be reading some of these old things and go, wow, these guys were like there. I don't even know if there's people like that anymore. Like these people like led the brigade on things. These
people like were out in the trenches, you know. And it's just wild to me that that it gets so deep, you know, when you're talking about all of it, and I guess it shouldn't be to be honest, like when you step back and go, well, duh, yeah, I guess, But I guess the altruistic part of you, especially with a church, you want to believe that that isn't how
things are ran, you know, but apparently not so. Like I said, Gay goes on to run Howard Hughes Medical until he dies almost Clarintel two thousand and six, and that legacy has been left to his family and not only that, but his son went on to actually well.
He worked with Romney at Ban and Company.
And not only did he do that, but I think he kind of got kicked out of the Quorum of the seventy for doing these little micro loans at that point that were kind of looked down upon for desperate situations before they conglomerated and smashed companies. They kind of would do the little here, let me help you, and then it was like impossible to meet the needs of this loan and they would fail, and then they would just swoop up all the companies.
And Bane and Company was known for this.
And they're both Mormon, you know, so and not just Mormon Quorum of the seventy Mormon. And so he makes it in and and like I said, normally when you get to be seventy years old you kind of have a place for life in the Quorum of the seventy. They don't like release you from your calling. And they waited till he was seventy and then they released him. That's a statement like and I don't know if it was that they were trying to shake him down for more money because they have a lot of money.
Because his dad was the trustee over that whole thing.
Do you know there's I think it's like I think they said seventeen billion dollars a year goes to Howard Hughes Medical Institute. I think was what the pledge is through. Yeah, it's like been, Yeah, it's a lot.
I didn't realize the gay family was associated with Bank Capital.
Yeah, his son, it's his son.
I had a picture.
But that's interesting because that's uh, you know, Romney never really gets questioned about those activities too much, you know a little bit politically speaking back in the day, but not the right questions, right because that Bank Capital it got to seed money from George.
Soros yep, and George well because they don't want to get into so again, like I said, the mole In Company was the start for the Mormon Tabernacle choir stuff. As far as they're advertising promos, well, then what happens is exactly what Justin says. And we get into big comfy red chairs, right, The big comfy red chairs come with like the Koshoge family and all these big families.
But where are they linking up and meeting people? They're going to these concerts that cost like two thousand dollars a chair, which is nothing for them, you know, and then they're sat next to these other really important people on the d L and then they can just have
a big meeting and no one knows. And so that's how that plays into forward from this situation, going into like the eighties with Beverly Bruff Campbell and Beverly Bruff Campbell had so much clout that she literally changed the temple ceremony through the prophet and that shouldn't be that that was supposedly given to them from God literally, So if she has that much poll, I mean, what did she know?
You know.
Which profit was? This was this Benson Benson.
With Beverly Bruff. It was in the eighties, I think it was.
Those are the two prophets of the eighties, right, yeah.
Campbell, Let's see Campbell. Let's look.
Jeff Benson has always be an interesting character to me because you know, once again when we were mentioning his calling bones and the blue blood families involved in these alien seances, the taps are in that conversation for sure. Oh yeah, that's the only Chief of Supreme Court and US President and William Howard Taff but found founder of the Skull and Bones is the Taff family as well.
Yes, well that's why they came in set it up here, right, like it's never been done before since.
Yeah, isn't Bill Bennett a part of that? Part of that extension there is the University of Utah Skulling Bones.
I can't remember if Bennett was, but either way, he's dialed in ten ways till Tuesday.
He's in there every single way.
They would put that there, but not at BYU though, right, it's at University of Utah though, right.
Yeah, it's only at University of Utah, yep, because I think they didn't want to come across. I mean think about it like you would rather you would rather it be a little bit apart from you. You know, if you're going to have to do dirty deeds, you know, dirty deeds aren't going to go over as good. You can't hide as much at b YU. Not that they're not included. I'm sure they probably profit just as much as anyone.
You know, you got him, Sorry, no, no, no, no, it's totally okay.
I didn't want to like interrupt the flow, but you had you had brought up this idea of the blue Blood seances, and that was my That's where I wanted to jump in originally, So I apologize for that, but I know, I think I think it was so interesting you said that JJ. So first of all, great, that was a great point. But I also think it makes a lot of sense to what Heidi said last time about the Martinists, because there he's even a link in Canada.
So this obviously goes to my second point, but maybe in a moment, is that there's a link between the huge and o French, the French Protestants, and the Martinist tradition. And so as a as a French Canadian strument, as a we do not.
Like huge and o's. It's like it's kind of like embedded into like your identity.
It's like you're the antithesis of them, kind of like as a French Catholic, that.
Guy, that guy that took over the money for the church, they said, he was a big deal there in Canada and basically from like one of those wealthy, big deal families.
So that's also really interesting because you were saying, Heidi about the chartered corporations like the Savoy family and all these people that are royalty, Well that's that's the majority of Canada. I mean it's like eighty two percent is crown Land, so it's in trust in treaty as they would say, held by the crown. So who is the crown? Well,
the Crown is really the UK. But if you understand how confederation works, the provinces were confederated at different times, so certain provinces are actually confederated with a charter from the Dutch West India Corporation, like Newfoundland. So that is also interesting because that's where they wrote the Charter of Rights and Freedoms.
John fun fact on that the first book of Mormon that was ever translated into a different language was Dutch because they had so many of them. Oh so connects connects, And yes, Bob Bennett, was you of you? So I'm assuming he's tholen bones.
They keep that pretty on the DL at this point.
Now, well that makes total sense.
And then you'd also have the international travel the thing that you said, Heidi, like when they do their missions, they go, the spooks go away. Well, this is exactly like how university is as well, Like if you do certain particular studies, I'm sure everybody knows this area studies like I study Asia Pacific studies. So it's like people like me, I'm not a spook, but I'm just saying it's area studies. And it's also like Middle Eastern studies,
Central Asian languages, Russian, like those kinds of things. Those are the programs and philosophy and like. So it's always people who go abroad. That's really was because it's a perfect cover. Right, You're just doing your mission, yeah, miss.
Just doing your job. Yeah, I don't think you're wrong.
I don't think you're wrong the spook. Classic statement of a spook.
I'm really not.
I am not a spook. We were talking Watergate today.
They wanted me, they would have picked me in university. That's really the truth that they really wanted me. But obviously I'm too rebellious.
You bring up a great point with the international missionaries, and that's kind of I was getting out with Azrataph Benson, like there's this weird there's always been this weird dynamics between the federal government. Despite their claims of me being at more and whatnot, there's always this weird dynamic between the two. Azrataph Benson was the Commerce secretary for Eisenhower for years. Yes, and later the you know, the the prophet of the church, and then his forefather also AZRATAF.
Benson was at Was he a president? I don't think he was a president. Was he was he a No, I think he was twelve apostles maybe, I think I.
Think he was. I think yeah.
But it's weird dynamic because when you're talking international missionaries.
And spook activities is a cover.
Well, Joseph Smith had dispatched you know, international missionaries back in the eighteen you know, you know, eighteen.
Forty, so you know that long before anyone heard the.
Name CIA or you know, FBI or any other three letter agency. So I always often wonder that Mormons kind of invent the American spook game.
Well, it's odd you say that, because I will tell you guys, within twenty five to forty five miles of my house, there's Hill Air Force Base, there's the NSA, there's the FBI, there's the IRS and the CIA.
Damn.
I mean, I know, I can't believe they haven't stormed my house yet. Sometimes I screw with my ship though it won't work, like my streamyard link won't be there. And weird, but whatever.
That was weird that is weird.
Yeah, no, and that kind of stuff will happen all the time. When I did the show with Justin, my camera crashed, my laptop crashed. I went to go get on. I have another computer right here. That one crashed, but and then my power went out, and I was like, are you serious right now? I was, and he was laughing. But then he asked me, are you by yourself? And I was like, yeah, whatever, I've got a big dog. Come at me, bro if I die doing stuff like this, so be I don't care. Speaking of rebellious oh.
I wanted to ask. Sorry, I am so non knowledgeable on Mormons. Yeah, very fine, I'm learning.
Just so the profits, this was a very interesting idea. So do they receive revelation like every different profit.
So every prophet that it becomes the profit or president of our church is called a profit seer and revelator, and I do believe jin Now I think that. Okay, we're going to get into some weird theosophy anthroposophy, which will be great because you probably know all this stuff.
So when we're talking about the things that they do in the temple and it piercing the veil, Okay, it's well known that you know, things can pierce the bell and usually it's blood, right, like has something to do with that, but also.
It can be mimicry. And I do think these.
Mormon people, the goyam, the regular people like I once was, that don't know anything.
I didn't even know as a mason.
I even know that. I didn't even know what a mason was. I didn't even know that. So those people that do all these things and ceremonies, why would they have people do ceremonies, They don't understand because they're harnessing that energy, that's why. Yeah, and so they're taking that and what is the number? Okay, so they're doing the work for the dead. When you go through the first time, it's for you, but every time subsequently is for a dead person. So what does necromancy provide you if it
works the gift of sight to see? And what is the profit a seer and revelator?
I mean, that's a good point in regardless of the calling though of the of the of the new.
Prophet, seer and revelator the president of the church.
I often wonder how that goes down, right, Yeah, because they have to have some sort of witness right, I don't remember. I don't recall the precise details, but I do recall there being some sort of witnesses required in that process. And I've always this is they're very ambiguous. I believe in the exact particulars there the Well was saying there now.
Right now, it's.
Ritualistic whatever's going on there?
Right?
Okay, follow up question? Sorry, sorry, Heidi, I don't be sorry. Okay, So two fall up questions. So uh one, my second question will depend on the first one. So is there contention and how the profits have been named?
Okay?
Yes, okay, So this is an idea in prophecy, just from my perspective. All someone has to do is change it so slightly. You know, if you have a son, if you have a cousin, if you have a brother, that you would rather them take the place. Especially for Mormons, all you have to do is say it came from the higher source. Since you are tapped into the higher source. That's not a really, that's not really a it's called we would call that a skillful mistruth. So it's not
quite a lie, but it is skillful. So it's not the person that maybe the angel said it should be if you're believing it. I don't personally believe in spirits, like I believe in them, but I don't take notes from them. And so yeah, so all you'd have to do is just change it ever so slightly or change your wording. Because a lot of them are lawyers, right, so they understand this idea of like how you can stretch the truth like very well, like that's kind of
the point of law. So I just think that there's something interesting, like people could say it was a lie if you if you misappointed someone, but there's a magical way to think of it.
That's like you can kind of get around a direct.
Lie, get around the karmic Well.
I do find it interesting that you bring up lawyers because Joseph's great great grandpa was an attorney and he was a statesman, and he also was a part of the Boston Tea Party and so actually they say he was the one that organized it. And so these people come from by Salem, they don't come from where they say they do.
They just don't want that on their on their shoulders, right.
And so yeah, say brother, cousin and father, you know, passing on the uh, you know, the the power to you know, sometimes when you're neeling with the Mormons, sometimes that's the same person your brother, your brother, your brother cousin.
It's your brother cousin.
Well, this is something interesting because it's like I brought this up several times. I'm sorry, Nick. Is that the Owen Davies book on grimoires. So the really the I would say, three quarters of the Inquisitions where we could say probably really it's really about finding source the publishing of grimoires. That's really what the inquisitions were about, later
as the Jesuits round them. Originally the Dominicans were doing something you could read as good in the sense that they were wiping out what they would think of as Satanic calls. But later they were really about the publishing, so you could maybe you could read Salem as also kind of taking place in this like yes, it's framed as witches, it's framed as like, you know, Tituba, who's
really interestingly from the Bahamas. She's not really, she's probably even she might be Afro indigenous, but she's probably not, so she's probably just fully indigenous from the Bahamas, whatever that is.
And then well, his grandpa was involved in the inquisition. He was an accuser. He actually had his sister in law put to death.
That's interesting even that word the accuser, because that is something of Mars. Heidie Like, it's like, I'm sure you know this is and Nick also knows. We've been talking about it. Is this like idea of like what is the negative sort of formation of like the spheres of the planets, and the accuser is actually the it's the klipa of Mars. So that is kind of interesting accusing someone of doing something specifically that you had yourself have done.
And what is on their family knife. It's called the Mars knife because the sigil of Mars is embedded in their knife.
Yep.
So so I'm glad Jenn was here for that one because I wouldn't have thought about that on my own.
I know that all those separately and not together.
So yeah, And I just think that that was another nod with Crowley being so fascinated with Joseph Smith that you know, like knows like and I think he recognized a magician in Joseph Smith, and I think he knew exactly what was going on. And I think it's funny too, because if you're gonna be guilty of something, what are you going to do. You're gonna blame another person so vehemently like me thinks you protest too much, right, and he's like, no, she's the witch. Yeah, she's the witch.
So yeah, because mass owned all the grimoires, that was sort of the point.
I sorry, I missed that about Bowen, Davey Sink. But the men own the grimoires. So when they.
Say, oh, it's about the witches, it's about like the things, that's not really what it's about. It's really about getting at other people's compot. Maybe it was about impiled to grimoires, because we know a lot of people would make addendums to their especially those like Hugiano or pure. I've only seen the huge O version, so I apologies, but I assume the Puritan Bibles are similar.
They would add.
Little notes in the margins, little things like get compiled focus.
They had parchments, they had magical laymen's so.
That completely makes sense to me.
Anyway, I can show them if you want, so, yeah, okay, I will do that. Yeah, because it's very interesting and the things that you're saying, I think one hundred percent play. And this is kind of where I've always kind of gone with it is that it's not for no reason that this stuff keeps popping up, right, the canes and the parchments and all this stuff, It's got to mean more.
And that was where I kind of started things, because his mom is quoted as saying, we don't just sit around and draw things to the House of the barac all day and stuff like that. So I'm just like, no, she didn't do it on accident. Did you do you see this?
Yeah?
Yep? That is one of the Smith family parchments, one of three, same.
Cycle as the integratron there yep.
And if you notice, and and Jen will probably know this, when you leave them open. When you are calling down a certain thing and it doesn't have a seal, that means you have a working relationship with that spirit. And so you know, when you're when you're telling it what to do, you have a seal. But when you're when you've got a working relationship with it, it's a little bit different. You're not so much commanding. So uh, I find it interesting that he was an unlearned farmer. Don't
you know. There's one let me tell let's see, there's three. H let me minimize that and find it on second.
So when you said folk wisdom, there jen that that kind of you know, that's kind of right where I'm at with thinking the origins of the Mormons. So well, yes it has origins in freemasonry. It to me, it clearly has origins in this Vermont, remote Vermont, you know, the.
Martinism, the Martinism, And it makes me very curious. As I read some books from Peter Lavenda, there is something called Volk magic so freaking similar, and I.
Was like, it's I did Nick JJ and I did a show on De Laurence Company Heidi and Uh we talked a little bit about like Dutch pow wow. Well this is basically Dutch powow magic. It is like the bombs, the seals, the ways you use your.
Very solomonic magic.
Yeah, but they include like they'll drawing a couple of saints, maybe they're not saints, is like how Protestant thinks of it. But it's like, as a Catholic looking at it, that would how that's how it would be.
But there are actually profits from the Bible.
So there is something kind of similar like what you're talking about, Like there is this kind of like with NJJ, there is this kind of Northeastern magic that is very America.
I think it's Celtic if I remember correctly.
I'm trying to get the baptisms from the dead like.
That's long been an interest of mine because I've done baptisms for the dead in the temples numerous times in my earlier years, So I've long wondered the origins of this practice. It doesn't seem to be freemasonry, so to say it's simply freemasonries. It is largely freemasonry, yes, for sure, there's no doubt about that, but there's other elements they've matched together and there in a Krowalley esque the Lima fashion matching these things together.
But it's the combination of that seems to be some.
Sort of folklore magic of some regard.
I think it's it's magic mixed with masonry.
But also like when you look at this, I mean, you can't miss the kabala involved in here, you know, yeah.
I mean harmonic seals. You can't.
It's it's one to one even when you I'm not saying that people should do this, but if you buy them, like the Botanic booklet seals that come on, like the vegetable parchment they they have, they come in their planetary colors, so they're not prepared. You have to do all the prep yourself. I've done it probably hundreds of times, but you basically have to You just have the imprint and then you have to like consecrate it from scratch. So you could say, jj that it's folk magic because it's
like taken out of its like original form. Like if you pass down Agrippa, yeah, you'd be a decent ceremonial magician. You could like figure out a lot of things with the Three Books, Sure, no problem. But you could also say that this is part of like that higher knowledge as well, Like even.
Though they see that one too, can you see this?
Oh yeah, So that's what I'm saying, Jim, Like it seems like you know the Kabala, I mean obviously you know you have influences of Freemasonry, et cetera, But like, oh, use other elements, like again the baptism for the dead.
That's always been a weird one to me, Like is there any other are you familiar gen with the origin story of where that might come from?
So the Manicheans, the Manicheans actually did this. So a lot of weird things come from the Manicheans actually, like the idea of like the pillars not being the blue and the red is more of the primordial idea, and then it became the black and the white, right like the Masonic pillars, the Kabbalistic pillars. But red and blue is really the primordial colors. So but Minikianism really is this idea of the block and the white. Everything is like it's either of God or it's anti God.
It's not.
There's no there's no current that's useful going to the other side. So it's only one. It only goes one way, you could say. So they're very dualistic. And they also did this these baptisms of the dead in order to bring in these people who they thought would just be forever trapped in the cycle of reincarnation. They thought, oh, we're going to baptize these people and then they can hear because people who were I guess practitioners and many
Chianism they were called hearers. Like a lot what Heidi says, like just the goyam, the people that they're not worthy of hearing, of having a voice, They just like they're just hearing what the elect are saying, and that's even what they're you know, religious leaders were called the elect, So I think that that has a lot to do with us in it.
Did they ever touch them onto living people, because that's been my question.
Attached like sides all these body things.
Yeah, I've thought of it, because here's the thing we're looking.
Okay, so multiple things are happening in the temple.
You're using portal mirrors when you're getting married, and you know you're over an altar. We don't know what's in that altar. We also do typhony and stuff like when we do the payala ill this this is what we do.
And we do it three times.
And I'm just telling you guys like like this, this is how I got married.
So see the mirrors facing each other and create the portal.
And as you get married over the altar, you look into them and say you see it forever and ever, And.
Then I did I did not know that. That's interesting, yes.
And then.
You do it every time you do a marriage for somebody.
Right right, which is you know that's very exclusive. You know you got to be both be the you know, the the folks getting married to be members but the folks attending have to be members too, right, and they have to get approvals.
Correct.
Oh yeah, only my family that recommends could go.
Mm hmm. You can't just go. There's no way. My dad couldn't go.
You even if you're just a member, you still have to get the temple recommend right.
Yeah, no, would either.
Should you look in the mirror, I'll say this.
Yes, let me pull that up again. I have another one here too.
So this is what it creates. It is a portal. And I truly believe that they are attaching spirits because think of the spirits that are here that are not legally here. If you believe in angels mating with women, those people that were created from that or those beings did not have a spirit sanctioned by the creator. They were made illegally. And so what does it say in the Bible about that these things wander after they die
looking for a place to rest. And that's why in you know, when you talk to Jewish people, they'll say, there's demons everywhere, and they're all over us all the time, like literally, like it would suffocate the room if you could see them. So when you think about it, like are they trapping anything here because the pentagram that they have outside on the temple, let me show you it's upside down, and and then they have a pentacle. I think the pentacle is right side up if I have it in this one.
And the same concept as body things for scientology essentially, that's.
How I feel. That that's what I feel.
Okay, I have a question for Nick about there you go. Did you notice any colors or thought it was interesting for any reason?
There?
Well s, I didn't think, you know, something up with the gold probably and then the.
Even the gold is probably knowledge, don't you think, like.
Yeah?
And then like that looked like there was like kind of green going down the middle.
Yeah, I thought so too.
Yeah, that that I found interesting, Like.
It's a it's a diamond because there's a crystals like from the lear there's a crystal illumination and then it's going into green, so you're coming back down into nutsalk into the diamond.
Also, we were given to us by Lucifer in the temple. I'll show you that with figs. Yeah, that would. And his sigil is to Venus. One of those sigils is to Venus. Because I've dissected all of them, and just for fun, so that you know, that guy that built the integriton said the aliens he saw were from Venus, that they came to him in his bedroom at night, at the foot of his bed, and they were from Venus.
Just so you know, well that makes sense in the environmental stuff that you were talking about. Because okay, so hypothetically, again, I don't speak to angels, but if I did, or angels from any planet anyway, they.
They're like, don't come at me.
Angels, don't come at me, bro, But they but they angels of Venus would be they would be protecting the fortress or protecting the garden.
So it would be like protecting the natural world. That would be like a big part of their function like that. You would not that the garden is supposed to be pristine in their view, so we were we are never supposed to like kind of you know, like tame, like we're not such dominion over it. Like that idea from the Bible would be kind of antithetical to what angels of Venus would think of the world.
These are our outfits, but these are this is a very unclear picture because somebody snuck in and took these and this is no shit. New name Noah, shout out you, but new name Noah snuck in with some Google glasses. This picture shows dark aprons, but they are green. They're very dark green with fig leaves on them and one
sided robe. Yeah, and then we get there. They're praying in the circle right now, and then they're going to raise up their hands and say, oh God, hear the words of my mouth because they changed it, but they used to say peley l and if you look it up, it's a bad translation because I don't think he was very good at a Hebrew But anyway, whatever, and so this is the temple garb that you wear like it's just what you do. And I remember going and thinking this is not where I belong. This is bad idea.
I was super scared. I was like, uh, And the devil actually comes in the so Lucifer comes in. This session takes like two hours, and you're in the Garden of Eden and you are going through the whole fall, and everybody has two parts to get a new name. They give you a new name at the veil and all these things happen. But when you're there and Joseph or Joseph, when Adam gets kicked out of the Garden of Eden. He's praying and he's sad and he's crying out for God.
But but God doesn't show up.
And who shows up Lucifer, and he says, hey, you better get dressed. Here, put this on because God's going to see what you did, so you better put this on. And then everybody stands. They say please stand, and the men are on one side, the women are on the other. And then you get up and put your apron on this little fig leaves from Lucifer. I was always like, why the hell are we doing what Lucifer told us to do? What is happening right now?
Well it makes I mean, everything you said makes perfect sense from a cobola sik Len, like perfectly you have the green flashing of Banah. So that's an idea, that's like how the diamond crystallizes. That's why it comes into the density that it does. But then it's also the gardens pristine. That's the idea of the garden. That's why it's dark green because it's self luminous like jade is another color. Malachite its stones that light cannot pass through.
But because the light is there right. You're saying that Lucifer comes to the garden.
Yes, yes, he comes and says put it on, yeah, and then you all stand and do it.
Herb above that's a you know, a plant of venus as well.
So you said green and I had to pull up this stone. You know, Joseph Smith had a lot of stones, but this was one. This was one of his stones, and I found that interesting as you said that, that popped into my head.
So is that one of his seeing stones that he was Yeah.
They say that he liked this one the best, but I don't think so. I think there's a white one that that he probably used the most. Because the church refuses to even give anything of it except a rendition, an artist rendition. I have the artist's rendition of it, but that's it. Here's the artist transition. I my guess exactly.
Uh.
You know, he knew too much to be a dumb farm boy like and his family was too prominent. Like his family. His brothers off a Dartmouth Indian College. They call it the Dartmouth Indian College piece. But you know, I think he had a lot of access to books because he was sick. You know, what are you going to bring your brother home that's laid up with typhoid fever and has all this pushtul and almost died and you know, all this crap in his leg. Well how about books?
You know?
Yeah, And those very Bamon towns were very well educated despite being you know, the mountain folk, very well educated. And you know, I think there's a lot to be said about some of the origins of where he learned these things amongst those towns up there.
Absolutely this is a rendition from a neighbor's testimony in the Glass Looker case. This is a drawing of what he described happened when they would come and do treasure digging. And so you know, there's a lot of things they leave out of the story, which are like the practices with Sidney Rignan in the caves afterward, and the whole bunch of other sketchy stuff. But they just don't want
to go into it. And I think, you know, what, if you're if you're Mormon and you want to, you know, be a part of the Mormon Church, and they really wanted to help you, like they say they do, why do they have so many ignorant people that don't know anything because they are using people, and that is why I'm pissed off at them. It isn't because they do magic.
I could give a shit less. It's because they do this kind of stuff and they're harnessing the energy from it for their self, and that is just that to me, is just diabolical. You know.
So well? And interesting?
Sorry, Look at the symbols on the temple their gin.
Yeah yeah, okay, So that sigil that you show of Joseph Smith's you had a modern like sort of the modern we'll call it the updated uh Pentacle of Solomon for it, it's the Pentacle of Jupiter. And interestingly, that pentacle is used for exactly what you were just talking about. It's used to cast away spirits, protecting treasure.
And his whole table on this because I this was his Jupiter talisman that he had. They say it wasn't quite correct and that it possibly led to his death because instead of prosperity, it was kind of a curse upon his life because it wasn't quite right on the table there. But either way, you know anybody that you know well or you can look up that is an
actual practitioner of magic. If you do not know exactly what you're doing like people that want to just go buy stuff, and like, well, I'm just gonna think you do this today. You best be careful because I postulate and Jin's here today and this isn't what we were talking about. But if you guys are good with it, I'll keep talking. I just did a full comparison of Crowley and Joseph Smith, and I think he did the abermelon. I one hundred percent think he was looking for HGA.
I one hundred percent think he was calling out to things specifically. And I don't think he closed anything after if he got it. And that's a problem because once you open, if you don't close, we all know where the Lochness Monster supposedly came from.
Right, Well, this is interesting at what you're saying, very very interesting to me. And I told you last time that this idea of him as a magician, like as a full fledge, like he's all the way, he's thirty three, he's thirty four, Okay, But what you're saying is like maybe he didn't know. It's like what JJ is saying, there's like the folk tradition, so it's like folk Martinism.
And I'm not saying that it's a sortative, but maybe there's not like a long line attrition where the Catholics they have Rosicrucianism.
So a lot of the priests understand.
A lot of the you know, people who are running the institution understands. But like with these kind of like rebel hugeon O's and Puritans, there's no one, there's no like great faction running the show. So some of the knowledge may have gotten like a little bit lost, a little forgotten.
Right, Yeah, I think that he well well and if possibly which I think Lumen Walters was the one that helped him. But also you have to remember when he got sick, and JJ can attest to this. When he got sick, he has always been it's always been said like and then he just laid up in the kitchen with his mom, Right, JJ, have you ever heard anything else different, Like basically he's laying around the house, he's getting better. No, they sent him to Salem. No, they
sent him to his uncle Jesse. And I found this way later and I was like, I never heard this before. What And so he's at that age, that critical learning age where maybe Jesse taught him some things and then Lumen Walters comes and teaches him some things, and maybe none of it was complete, because but he knew enough to become a master mason in a day. I know that. So he did have enough knowledge to pass a lot
of tests. And in fact, one of the angels that I showed you in the sigil that was black and white, is actually a Freemason password, so it was Jebulon. So I'm like, Okay, he knew enough to know how to get in trouble. I think, no, fourteen years old when he went up to Salem.
Was that about fourteen?
Yeah? But then no, I think he was quite younger. I think he might have been around ten or eleven, because that was when his leg his leg was early in life. I think he was maybe seven or eight, and it lasted for a long time. They were going to cut his leg off, but instead they drained it and it was pushing out the bone shards.
It was like this horrible situation, and we all know that, like.
If you have a life or death, you know thing, then that can also play into it where he would be more open, you know at that point. So I mean good points.
I've always wondered that story is accurate as far as it was a miraculous tale of recovery because he's some sort of profit and overlord type of deal, you know.
But there's obviously something got in there.
For something going there, right, Maybe that's a cover story, who knows.
Or something got in him when he was down, like and helped him live the rest of his days. I always wonder about that, like what if you say you'll do anything literally or was it his parents, you know, did he you know? Who knows? But I do know this. It gets very thousands.
Long around that time, you know, not destiny from north to south.
I mean, there's a lot of this kind of ceremonial magic, cold activity going on.
Yes, he wasn't the only one. I think he just got killed because he had a fat mouth. So the king fall it, the King fall it sermon. If you look it up, it's very cabalistic in nature. It's also talking about plural deities. And I think they were just done with his shit. Like I think they were like, okay, look, first you're banging everybody's wives. Now you're doing this like that's enough. You know. That's my thoughts. He did marry
William Morgan's X Well not ex wife widow. I suppose that many, many point their finger that Joseph had a part to do with his disappearance.
So politically speaking, he was kind of the Donald Trump of his day, involved in numerous industries. In fact, he had the second largest militia in America, just slightly smaller than the US Army.
You know, the governor of Illinois was not going to mess with them.
The Mormon militia was far far larger than the Illinois militia. So very powerful, dude, bank banking guy politics. So he's kind of the you know, the Donald Trump of his day, if you will.
So, yeah, he ran the president. Yeah, yeah, president. I think it's not wrong.
Yeah, that's what I think may have got him killed. Right, there was the I'm gonna run for president, make this entire country. Mormon came boy.
And then you know about the Quorum of the fifty two. There's that hidden fifty inside where they don't ever talk about it. And I think that he knew enough to set it up really well because they're like, oh, he
never read the Book of Knock. And then he made something like the whole communistic community that he was making, where you give every thing it was like the Order of I think he called it the Order of Enoch, and so I'm like, well, you guys are dumb, like hide your history better if you don't want anybody to find it check it out. Weird. But anyways, with that, we will wait for the rest of this fun stuff with RFK and how it plugs in there, it's quite more fun.
I think Jin will like it better because we're going to talk more.
About the seance, although we did talk about aliens from Venus, so that was pretty fun.
I love all of it.
I love the Nixon stuff I have, like I kind of I interpret it like they're all magicians, they're all mafia.
Like I don't really pick sides.
Yeah cool.
Oh I think I found when I was looking, and I don't I don't want to misspeak, but I will say I'm ninety eight percent sure Joseph Smith is related to the Rockefellers.
To be continued Next time on that, I'll bring some actual proof because then that makes one hundred percent since what Jin just said, like, yeah, it's one big circle.
Bring some proof of how his grandson married Lawrence Washington's great granddaughter.
It doesn't surprise me. Yeah, it does not surprise me with it being he supposedly arranged the whole Boston tea party. I didn't know that until I did.
I was thinking of when you said that exactly.
Yeah, I never heard that before. You would think as patriotic as Mormon's are, they'd be like.
And we did that.
Yes right, No, never heard that before. But a Mormon all my life except for the last what decade, so weird gets weird.
Never know, it's just super weird.
Yeah, all right, now we're going to wrap it up. Yes, no, thank you, thank you, and thank you, uh, Jin and JJ. Let me let you guys plug your stuff now at the end of the show, JJ, real quick, let everybody know where they can find your amazing work PLESEA.
JJ vance Tests of Operation GCD not the vice president, also no longer Mormon, but deeply fascinating on its topic due to the first.
Twenty years of my life being Mormon.
Awesome, thanksciate, appreciate the invite, Nick and Heidi. Great, great, great talking to you again.
Awesome to talk. Can't wait till eachat again.
Yeah, no, thank you for both. Thank you for joining j J, I always appreciate it. And Jin the Ninja what is up my man? Let everybody know where they can find your stuff, please, sir?
All right, well thanks Boston say that fighting me perpetually on a series of course, JJ, who is I guess my my new co host on when I'm a Reject? And then Heidi, I've honestly, I'm like everything that I've learned has been quite profound and in a sense I'm thinking about everything in a different way because of one statement that yes he found his ahga, so you still have an awesome conversation. I think on my show eventually it will happen and hopefully and if you say yes and yeah and.
So bringing my curly notes.
Interesting because I kind of just look at it like, yeah, they kind of lie a lot.
So for me, I don't take it like they they can do things maybe, but I don't know.
I kind of think that they're you know, tall Tales is the greatest magicians to a ball.
Well, the Angels always did lie. John d even says that, and then even Crawley later after he did the Book of the Law, later he was like, ah, they lied to be a wassu asshole. So with that, I'll quick cussing on your show and stuff though, Gin.
You plugged everything.
Yeah, so you can find me, sorry, guys on Twitter, at wucom, re Born to the Uko and g Reborn. Also my show Threshold Saints a Spotify, Apple and anywhere you got your podcasts, And thank you guys so much really fun.
Oh yeah, and you'll like we'll be on the bottom as well. And Heidi finally the guests. Let everybody know where they can find all your amazing work.
Please, awesome, thank you again. I had a fun time.
You guys are awesome, and it's always fun to talk Mormon stuff, especially Nick loves it.
Oh yeah, Mormons and Nazis, and so we're going to get into both. Yeah, I mean I love it.
It's so good right like, and I am at the Unfiltered Rise yep, everywhere podcasts are served.
I do have my own website, unfiltered Rise dot com.
If you don't want to go to anywhere else, if you go to YouTube, you'll be sadly disappointed.
They do not like me and do not like my work.
I talk too much about weird things, so I get dinged enough. I am mostly on any other podchaser, so once a week on YouTube if it wasn't too spicy.
Yeah, awesome. Yeah, So everybody go check out their links. They're all on the bottom. Thank you all again, I really do appreciate you coming on. This is an awesome series. Again, it's a lot of it's a lot of stuff I don't know a lot of it, so I'm just like sitting here like what, what the fuck? But thank you. This is really really interesting and I'm really happy to have this on on the Occult Rejects. And that is the end of this one and until the next one, everybody be well later.
Assass