You see, something's going to happen.
What's going to happen?
What help?
Welcome to the occult rejects this episode. I got a couple of rejects with us this morning, and we will this afternoon and we will be talking about the inniads with arrows. Very excited to cover this topic or this stuff. This was associated with the platinis. People haven't listened to my Platinus episode. I highly highly suggest to go listen to tons of info in there and you will hear about the indiads. But before we get to the guest, I'm going to introduce the other rejects on the show.
And today we got the lovely Lisa with us. What's going on? The cult reject mad scientist?
How are you good?
And thank you for inviting me on. Hey, fellow rejects. I'm very excited to hear about the indiods. I listened to Nick's Platinus and so he touches about the idiods and theirs uff. It's going to go deep down into it, So I'm very much looking forward to that. You can find me on Twitter, sois Lisa or a Cult Research Institute dot org.
Thank you awesome, Thank you very much. And Headless Giant, what is going on, sir?
How will you you doing?
You can find me on Twitter and on x or x a Twitter, I guess they're the same thing. And you can find me on YouTube. Look up the Headless Gai podcast. And I love the topic. Platinus is so influential in early Christian thought, you know, late antiquity thought, and it's it's a really interesting bridge between the two. So I think this is going to be a great episode.
So check me out. On Thursdays, me and Nick do a show where we read your occult email, So send them over to the Headless Guy Podcast gmail dot com and he will send you some stickers if you include your address, So that's great. Tomorrow we have the Trilogus with Ethan and Ricardo, so check that out early in the morning. And that's about it.
Thank you, yeah sending those sending those emails. I mean even at this point, you could be making up a fabricated story and you're gonna get free stickers out of it. So I mean, just fucking said something at this point, Jesus Ethan Indigo, my man, what is going on? So how were you?
Thank you for making it thanks so much everyone.
I'm honored to be here. Yeah, I'm excited for tomorrow doing the trialogue. I'm easy to find on social media and frequently share writing and so forth, and I've written a couple of books. And Nick, yeah, props on your Platonius.
Show, and thank you.
I'm excited to learn more about all this. Thanks for being here at else.
Yeah, thank you for joining Ethan. I really appreciate it, really wanted you here. I figured this would be right up your rally as well, your kind of speed and your style.
Of fascination anything numerological and it is.
Awesome. And finally, Arrows, let everybody know what your deal is and where they can find your stuff. Please.
Yeah. Sure, So I'm Arrows Up. You can find me on Twitter, I think at Arrows Up Arrows to eat those on Twitter or x. And then I'm also on YouTube, where I've been going through the eniads and studying them and presenting that.
Yeah, I came across I can't even remember how I came across your stuff. I don't know if maybe you commented on a video and then I went and noticed that you had your own channel, but like somehow I came across you know, I was like, Yo, what's the odds of this go like covering this stuff? Why I'm working on Platonis. I think I had even mentioned you and told you I was working on it. After it came out, I was like, I'd really like to have
you on to cover the inniads. So it was like, it was even really weird how I even came across you in the timing. So I was really excited to finally get you on because I do think this stuff the ani ads from the stuff that I looked at when I covered Platonis, there was some real, real deep shit to me. And there's actually a lot of chapters in there that are on topics that I think are actually very important. It's interesting to know that he does
cover stuff on site. He does have a whole ch chapter that I think, you know, people are into the occult, you should read his chapter or narcissism. I think he has a solid solid point. But yeah, that's enough about that. Eros. What got you into I guess Platinus. I'm assuming it's Platonis. I don't know if it was Porphyry that or however you say that guy's name that got you into the
Inniads because he wrote them. But you know, how did you come across I guess the Aniads and Platonius and other stuff.
A long journey, I guess, but what really, Like I would say, initially, I was really into Taoism and Taro, and I practiced astrology, and then I got into Thelema a little bit, and then just I guess, weirdly, Christian mysticism, and I think that Christian mysticism is really what brought
me to Platinus. And I also wanted to say that, yeah, I watched you guys religiously, like I've watched you guys for a long time, so I think I probably did comment on something, and that's probably I think you're right recalling those details. But yeah, I just wanted to thank you guys for continuously expanding my perception on things, and obviously the awesome guests that you have on as well.
Thank you, Thank you. You know what I think it was. I think you commented on the premiere something about like you're excited for this. I was like, Oh, somebody actually knows who this guy is, you know, so when he clicked at his stuff, I was like, oh, she covers the eniots that is wild. Yeah, yeah, yeah, so uh uh you mentioned Thelma. I had no idea about that. Uh is is that kind of where? I mean? That brought you to Platinus in a sense as well. You were saying, is he one of the saints.
Platinis?
Yeah, he may not be.
No, absolutely not.
That would be kind of funny, that would be actually hysterical if he became a Gnostic scene.
See, Augustine was very influenced by Platinists though, so, and he talked about about that in some of his writings. But Platinis is definitely not a saint. He probably would have been murdered by the Christians.
Well, see that was something you had interesting that you mentioned before with a Lima and then you went straight into Christianity or Fellos. Uh do you think there is do you think there is a that's do you think that's in the Lima?
I think that there is a tie between Thurgy and uh neo Platonism. So maybe in that.
Way I like that how you explained that, that's interesting? Yeah all right, so, uh we'll get into it. I guess I don't want to get too hung up on that on the Lima and stuff. So yeah, what what what did you pick and why to let people know what we're getting to here.
Yes, I wanted to focus a bit on are the tractate? Are the stars causes? So that's any two track tate three, I believe, And I think it just really showcases some of his depth that maybe a lot of us don't always get to see. So I'm really excited about that.
And one thing I just wanted to add, maybe correct me if I'm wrong, just for people were listening and may not have listened to the Latina's episode. Uh, these were notes that were compiled by somebody else and put him into the indiads.
Correct, right, yep, Poor free his student went through the nads and he ordered them and published them.
And if I even remember correctly, they put it in an order that was kind of like some people question like why'd you do it like that? But isn't there I think in one of his books, I think Poor Forey actually lists like how if you wanted to do it in order, there is an order that you could do it in, but he just didn't put it out that way something like that.
Right, Yeah, that's right, And I think but I think in general, you can really read any tractee independently.
Oh yeah, there's a thousand pages, so there must be a lot of something in there. All right, So here I'll pull this up and we got sorry, what was this one again? On the stars?
Yeah, yep, are the stars causes. So these are just some quotes from the Enyads to kind of give us a teleological view and then also get our us thinking about some of these ideas that we're going to be covering.
So one thing, one thing I did want to just bring up real quick, or I could be wrong, because there's been a few people I've covered recently that felt this way. Was he also in belief that these stars did not, like put you in a cage like they could influence, but they were not as said Destiny. Did he feel that way as well?
Yeah, absolutely, like the.
I didn't. Unfortunately, I feel like nowadays it's kind of looked at it like that. I think a lot of people who want to get into zodiacs are these woo wool people. They putting you in shackles with the zodiac, in my opinion, or they'll blame the zodiac when they're acting out. You know.
Well, I think that's that's why it's so important is because he provides sort of a philosophy behind it. Instead of just saying, here's the stars, here's what they do, he's actually making the distinction between these are the influences and these are your actions. It sounds like they were having the same problem back then as well.
Probably.
Yeah, I think it's a it's a response to Plato's Timaeus, right, kiss. Plato did think of the planets as gods and of like having will themselves, and so it's kind of just a response to that and expressing his different opinion on that.
All right, so how did you what? Did you just want to read through this and then we'll just talk on it what we think and stuff. That's good to me?
Well, yeah, I can just I'll just run through this and just feel free to stop ye at any time for questions or if you want to provide an insight.
All right, sounds good works for me.
All right, bear with me through these quotes. But I think that they're important because they really show the nuance of the one and then just kind of some of these other ideas that are going to follow up from it. So, okay, the one is perfect because it seeks nothing, has nothing and needs nothing, but instead it overflows, and this overflowing is creative. The one perfect and full generates from its own super abundance.
That sorry, sorry to jumping already, but I was like, totally Kabala right there. That's like Ketha. I actually use that. I used that quote in my episode. That's that's exactly.
I love that quote.
You know, I'm so much Kabbala. So that's interesting.
I was going to say, it's so Dallas.
It's like almost directly in correspondence with the Eating or some other similar work, and in fact too that I wanted to ask Erros what you mentioned that you're into Daoism, What aspect of Daoism and did you find, I mean, other aspects of the Aeneods that may sound dallast or have Dallas elements.
Yeah, I feel very far removed from Daoism now, you know. I studied all of that, like I don't know, close to eight ten years ago, and so you know, I only remember some of the big principles. I did a lot of tai chi back then. But the idea of kind of becoming one with the cosmos, I think that definitely aligns to platinis like his ultimate teaching of returning to the one. It's a very similar idea because it's
different than Yeah, it's different than Nirvana. So to say, I guess if you're to compare Buddhism in Daoism.
Are you familiar with the Eleatic school of philosophy with Xeno's paradox and all the rest of that stuff like five hundred BC and Greece. I'm not, well, that sounds
like where he's getting this from. On nature, they talk about specifically how everything is an emanation from the one thing, and then they go through all of the gods and how that that sort of relates back, and that that sort of ethos you could see through Plato and you know, all of his people and then right up into the Neoplatinust. It's like, this was the surviving thread that seems to come through in Kabbalah, hermeticism, all that stuff.
Yeah, all right, so we'll try it in the second one. I'll try to interrupt it again.
No, it's great, it's great. In the act of vision, the seer and the scene are two, but here in the one they are not yet too. From this unity, the vision is born, and with it the distinction of nowhere and known. Thus from the one arises multiplicity. All things are different from one another, because each draws from the one its own share, not as if divided, but as each, according to its nature, receives what it can. In this way, the one is present to all, yet
each is distinct. The one overflowing produces something other than it's. This other turns back towards it and becomes intellect, containing all things different within itself, yet unified by their origin. If there were no one, there would be no number, but only non being. Because of the one, there are two, and so multiplicity. From unity, difference is born. But the
one itself remains without difference. And then the last one, intellect springing from the one, is the first to contain difference. It thinks itself, and in doing so it contains both the thinker and the thought, and the many beings which it knows.
Nice, you know a lot of that's still before you go on. I mean, it really doesn't remind me a lot of the Kabbalah. There was even one, the one overflowing, producing something other than itself. This other turns back towards it and becomes intellect. That right there even gave me the whole idea of Chokmah, because that's like coming face to face with God. And obviously, like if you're gonna keep going down the tree, you're turning the yellow way because of going up the tree, coming face to face,
you know you're heading a different direction. So just a lot of and even like recently, I think when I was covering the Kabbalah, I had taken like a quote out of Gareth Knight's Cabalistics book, and it was very much like even describing how like Cather starts off and like everything exists due to Cather and everything that kind of was created falling from that. I mean, it's like the same thing you're hear and here you know, it's
within everything. You know, even like in the Tree of Life, when you look at the four worlds of each sphere, there is like this the middle one, or this one right in the smallest one in the middle is supposed to be like the God essence or like the god idea of God in that sphere. And that's pretty much like how I feel like this is describing how it's
in everything. Like even I think Platinus was saying that's why he didn't agree with the gnostics is because if they existence, Scott is in there somewhere and it's not bad, you know what I'm saying. So it's within everything, you know, It's very cabalistic to me. I like it.
As well as the Emerald Tablet of thought. It's almost like one to one of the Emerald tablet there.
All right, even say, I'm like.
I was going to say that this particular part of the one where these quotes are talking about it immediately brings me when it says the one, and it says the beginning, and it seeks nothing and it just interprets,
and then as it begins it turns into itself. It reminds me of what the Pythagoras is used to represent the metaphysical being the monad which you have the circumpunked, and when you look at the circumpunked it looks like an eyeball with with the iris as the white part controlling the aperture of the pupil itself, and that that
is the representation or interpretation of reality. And as the pupil ingests the message of light or the message of the photons, it then turns into itself on the retina and then back into the actual optic nerve to interpret and begin the process of reality or begin the interpretation of reality. And that is at the beginning, but it also is at the end, so it's like an actual circle, like coming back to So it's you know, the one, we came from the one, and then we will return
back to the one. And you see that kind of like lay out in most of the quotes that you selected, So I just wanted to insert that.
Yeah, that's awesome. I feel like that does tie into everything that we're going to be talking about. All right, so all of these ideas are that. Then the one pours out of itself to experience the multiplicity of existence almost like a it's based off of differentiation, so it's almost like a constant state of gnosis or novelty producing. And so I like to tie it to this principle of chaos, and I think you'll see that. I think uh Platinis does parallel that a bit. And this is
echoed in multiple creation stories. Right, It's like the orphic creation story. You know, you have the cosmic egg, which represents unity, and then Fames emerges and out of him multiplicity and ordered cosmos, and then the Egyptian creation story is similar. Sometimes like like there's this infinite potential and sometimes a like unified egg, and then from this egg arises a god or a creator, and out of them
the multiplicity. And then Hermeticism as well, right, a primordial chaos identified with the mind, which brings awareness and order to what was previously undifferentiated. I feel like that's that exactly ties into what we're going to be talking about. From this differentiation and ordering, the cosmos becomes alive and structured, and all living beings emerge, each reflecting aspects of the original unity that was contained within the boundless chaos. Kay.
And then that just brings it to you know, like, how is the one kind of represented in different schools of magic. I think it's kind of interesting to talk about how it's seen differently in different schools of thought. Like hermeticis believe that chaos is onto logical and that it's a fundamental nature of reality. It serves as the substrate from which all order, form and life emerge. The focus is as is on chaos as something to understand
and align with rather than something to manipulate. But for chaos magicians, you know, they believe that this is like a primordial soup that can be shaped like a stem cell or a source of you know, creative potential.
And about the electron, huh, what about the electron? So, for instance, if you think about photons, right, and the speed of light being the upward limit of the entire visible frame of reference. Right back to what Lisa was saying about, how the divine is sort of an emanation that can be reflected in the way that we perceive the world, and so the upward limit of light would be the speed of light, and that sort of represents the god of this world because they can't imagine a
place outside of the speed of light. You know, that's something that a lot of scientists have no idea what they're grappling with, but we do know that it exists. So it's almost like the spiritual realm exists outside of the light world that we live in. That's like the upward limit that's Phani's again, is the god of light, and so from that.
All things are emanated.
It's almost like they're describing physics at the same time that they're making these poetic illustrations.
I can see that.
Yeah, that's so interesting too, because Platinus uses light as an analogy so often.
Right, Yeah, that nil the grassy guy if I even say his day, Right, he came out with like he was saying some shit, what tied with his boy on some show, theorizing that the reason we can't go past the speed of light is because we're in a matrix, and then the program wouldn't be written. So that's why we can't go past it.
Well, photons and electrons are the same thing. Their vibrations change the p everything would be well, you know, it's like the energy transfer from electron to photon is really easy, so there's there's something going on there. It's almost like that's the matrix of realities, all these little light particles vibrating together.
I think it's like say it was like in the Sims. It's like you can't get to that room yet because it didn't make it.
Yeah, the photons are going to be smaller than electrons, and photons do not have electrons, but they are the elementary particles. They're smaller than the fundamental particles. And so when you get a photon, it's like zero mass and it's like pure energy like there is it is its own you know message, there is nothing kind of that can change it its its own entity. But yeah, just a fire.
I would also think if you went past the speed of light, wouldn't that just be into the darkness the light again, Well, if you went past light, where would you see nothing?
Then?
Right, that's like the boundary of the black holes. Like you've got this a little bit on the black holes where everything seems to freeze.
At that point in the event horizon.
Yeah, time stops.
I don't know.
Well, and then that's what China's talking about. Matter and how you know, transmutation of the soul into matter. You had to go through this process.
Sorry, it's perfect spelled your name wrong.
At least he gave you credit.
Coming whatever you want. Just don't comb for lunch. But yeah, and sorry and it means interrupt. But yeah, what what heless is saying is is accurate. It's just the the photon is like its purest form of energy, I mean purest form of information. It's it's like an adulterated information. Whereas with electrons, it depends the spin, it depends the position, it depends the temperature, it depends this blah blah blah.
So yeah, and electrons belong to the actual you know that it's circulating or whatever, or unless it's like expelled. But anyway, sorry, that's good.
Yeah. I love where you guys are going with this.
I mean, I say, I didn't want to be stuck on the Dallas thing, but I guess I always am. The Dallas also have their egg creation myth. As you mentioned the egg concept before, and there's a quote here from the uh from the Dowtaye shing excuse.
Me, uh.
The Dow gave birth to one, one gave birth to two, two gave birth to three, and three gave birth to the ten thousand things. The ten thousand things carry yin and embrace yang. They achieve harmony by combining these forces. And just in respect to some of the any lines that you just quoted just kind of reminds me. But also thinking about that in terms of electron and photon instead of yin and yang, it's almost like the light gave birth to the myriad things type of thing.
The one became the many things, you know, the whole.
I love how you talked about chaos being like a stem cell and that it can give rise to anything, and it is the primorial soupia truly is like that was probably the best analogy I've ever heard, kind of, uh, relaying it to the chaos that I guess magicians manipulate for their own and and I do think in you on on the on the quote where it says it represents the underlying quantum like flow of reality absolutely, because I feel like it can become anything. It has the potential.
It is in its potential energy state. And and obviously with the observer or the you know, the airbender, the soul in matter, we can manipulate reality. We are able to manipulate mass, and I've I've often heard that chaos
is probably our inability to see the pattern yet. And so I think if in which you know, Platonists was talking about this, that we should strive towards intellectual perfectism or write something like that perfection in that it's it's more important to continue that growth towards understanding and that
that God or the One exists beyond that understanding. And so when you look at chaos, chaos is potentially, you know, not an artifact, but an actual We're able to visualize matrix when we don't understand the matrix into us, it looks like chaos because we're either not stepping far back enough or we lack the actual synapses to understand the equation or the algorithm, so to speak.
I've read that recently that almost like that same phrase right there, and I think it was in a couple of book. It might have been that Gareth nightbook saying something about like chaos. It's chaos to us because we're just looking at such a small little part. Yeah, actually look back more and you would see it's a small intricate part of a whole big moving.
Thing quantum computing to try and to achieve God.
Yoh, very truly, very good way to put it.
Yeah, I think that platinis can really help make sense of chaos for sure. I included in here a little bit about Emboocus, just that he believes that you need intermediaries to shape the chaotic substrate. So it's just kind of interesting how different schools of thought think of this principle.
Well, think about the principles of geometry, right, So as these lines are crossing over each other, they're creating new patterns, and that would be like these intersections, these points that govern other other things and other ideas and so the ideas of geometry were really central to everything that they were about, you know, the Platonic solids and everything else. We're really meditation tools of how to understand the world, how to understand the universe.
All right. So in the Are the Stars Causes he's talk he's responding right to Plato's Timaeus, and he's arguing that the planets aren't deterministic, they don't act in accordance with will. They follow intelligible order, and they reflect this order, but they aren't the actual cause of the things that happen. And he uses this analogy of the universe as a single living organism to illustrate the interconnectedness of all beings. He explains that everything that exists emanates from the One,
like light from the sun, without diminishing its unity. All beings, including human stars and matter, are fundamentally connected to the One as derivatives of its overflow. So it's like this idea that right, and we'll get into it more in the other sides, but that there's the One, and then that multiplies into a seer and the scene, and even further when he goes into archetypes, because he talks about
archetypes quite a bit. You know. It's this idea that things mirror each other because they have little pieces of these patterns, of these pure ideas in the intellectual principle. Right. So like if one archetype is a piece of gold, and as a human, you're a rock, or you're like an unpure piece of gold, right, Like, maybe you have the gold in you, you have these these this pattern in you, but you're a offshoot of it, so you're similar to it, but you're.
Different vibration and frequency. That's where those differences start to come in and have a geometric relationship to one another.
I mean again, I hate to even go back to like the Capolla with this, but I guess maybe you know, for people who are into the kabala, they can see a really easy connection, you know, or even like how I use like sometimes like the whole like light bulb thing, it'd be like kind of like the light that shines out of that container, that light bulb, just like it
the father of the distance goes. I feel like the more of a matter it comes into, you know, like it explains like how this emanates, this one thing emanates and just eventually starts to turn into a more dense form as it goes along.
I guess.
Until it hits the wall. You have an image.
Right.
Time is a form of distance, right, So we're really with the time scale from you know, the big bang or whatever start everything, And as it moves along and outwards, you've got different emanations that come off of the path.
Well, sense on all, right?
So I have this quote from this the tract. He says, we may think of the stars as letters perpetually being inscribed on the heavens, or inscribed once for all, and yet moving as they pursue the other tasks allotted to them.
Upon these main tasks will follow the quality of signifying, just as the one principle underlying any living unit enables us to reason from member to member, so that, for example, we may judge of character and even the perils and safeguards by indications in the eyes or in some other part of the body. If these parts of us are members of a whole, so are we in different ways.
The one law applies all teams with symbol. The wise man is the man who in anyone they can read another, a process familiar to all of us, and not a few examples of everyday experience. But what is the comprehensive principle of coordination? Establish this and we have a reasonable basis for the divination not only by stars, but also by birds and other animals from which we derive guidance
and our varied concerns. I guess I added this example, a certain planet's position coincides with the person's birth and character, or a bird's flight might coincide with an omen at what's coming. If the cosmosis an organic unity, then different events and phenomena can reflect one another. Stars don't cause human events, the birds don't cause omens. Instead, both are
coordinated expressions of the same higher order. This cosmic harmony is why divination works at all, not because these creatures are for stars generate fate, but because their actions lined up with the greater pattern.
I think that interesting.
Think about bird murmurations and how hypnotic it is. Right, It almost puts you in a different frame of mind or a different consciousness as you're watching the bird murmurations as they move across fields and stuff. You know, it's almost like seeing the geometry patterns of a different world, and so being able to connect images with that seems to be a very common practice of you know, meditation, right, So you're looking up at the sky, You're seeing the
different shapes in the sky and everything else. It's like you're connecting your imagination to the things outside of yourself and then coming back with new images.
I do like how like this thing was putting it at the end, and I sometimes I would even want like it's this kind of almost applies to it's a little lost. But like even with like the true crime stuff, when we cover it with the jamatri, I.
Was just about to say that exactly you.
Could say, you can say, because I have something else that I was going to say, so go for it.
Okay, Just that last sentence that you mentioned. Nick has always said that when we would do true crime, that we would look at jamatria, and that he did it was almost as if it's not so much that maybe that the crime or the events were being done purposefully for those numbers, but that maybe the event itself echoes a pattern and jamatra is the way to decipher the pattern or decipher the number or the math that is being expressed because of the event, or that there's a
linkage into being able to interpret the event through math. Or through you know, some kind of numerology of sorts. But with talking about the cosmic harmony in that that you can math your way in a way, you could math your way into the understanding of what is being said. Like looking at the birds or looking at the stars. It's not that the stars themselves are influencing, it's the stars are being reflective. You know, ASBOs of blah blah blah blah.
You're talking about Benford's law. No, have you ever heard of this? Yeah, it's a tool of the I R. S uses to see who's committing fraud on their tax paperwork because certain numbers have a certain mathematical frequency that happens in natural numbers versus unnatural numbers. People don't know about these these frequencies, so they'll put the numbers in the wrong order or the wrong proportion, and you'll know
that somebody is fooling with the numbers. So in a lot of ways, you've got a pattern to nature that goes along these basic principles, like one is the most commonly used number in all of nature, so you've got to have a certain number of ones in your thing to represent a more natural number. So it's kind of crazy how that works.
I was even thinking of, like, uh, even like you know, once shit gets weird or like for well, conspiracy theorists, when you know, everything starts to seem like, you know, it's just doesn't make any sense, you know, and it
just seems to be from everywhere. Sometimes I wonder, is that just like, are we witnessing something happening but it just ripples through a bunch of shit it just causes weird shit to happen, or just I don't know, it's just like sometimes like it seems like when weird shit pops off from politics and the rest of the world, it's just like a fucking huge shit comes up once
and like everywhere, you know, everybody's looking everywhere. It's just weird shit everywhere, and it's just like, is there some sort of like eggregre that just passed by humanity?
I don't know, that's crazy. I can't believe the I R. S Is coming after us with.
Like I didn't know that, but I've heard of that law. I had no idea that you said.
Yeah, they've got Bedford's Law apps for your phone, so you could actually tell if somebody's fucking with you or not based off of the numbers they're giving you.
What the fuck?
Yeah, interesting, it's like chatchypt for fraud, right, But nobody knows why it's like that, Like there's no definite reason why numbers would be distributed like that, naturally versus unnaturally.
You know, they can't really explain why that law exists, but it does.
I think it's a signature. I think it's you know, kind of like with true crime. You know, the whoever is the orchestrator of the crime leaves his signature. They're good, all right.
The comparison to the universe has one single organism is his idea of cosmic sympathy. And all part of the cosmos are all parts of the cosmos are interconnected, like organs in the body, all part of a living whole. So it's kind of like this idea like that we're all connected, right, Like if you have a body and your finger gets hurt, then the whole organism, like your
whole self, responds to that. Right, And he says all things must be unchained, and the sympathy and correspondence obtaining, and anyone closely knit organism must exist first and intensely in the all there must be one principle constituting this unit of many forms of life and enclosing the several members within the unity, while at the same time, precisely as in each thing of detail, the parts to have each a definite function. So in the all, the higher all,
each several member must have its own task. This is part of his argument against determinism and deterministic astrology. If stars had direct power over human fate, then the principle of distinct functions in the all would collapse. Stars would overstep their role and humans would lose theirs. But in Platitis's metaphysics, each part of the cosmos must fulfill its proper function for the harmony of the all. We all participate in the cosmic harmony. If the universe is an organism,
humans are the sensory part. Intelligence is the electricity and the brain and animating the organism. And that way, nosis or novel thought could be a new sign apps from the universal brain and interesting thought in relation to thought forms that Grigore's chaos, magic, et cetera.
Yeah, I've often said myself, I think like in intelligence is electricity, you know, they even use I find weird about that is like even if you go back to uh, like the magic squares, when you start messing with what people consider angels and demons, I think it's listed like intelligences and spirits, you know, And I myself have even said I thought some sigils were actually like circuit boards or something to do with electricity. So it's just interesting you even have that crossover intelligence.
I've heard recently that they're making the correspondence or correlation with plasma and consciousness to your to your point, Nick.
Oh that's interesting. I like that. I'll have to keep an eye on that. Thank you.
Yeah, forgive my only topical knowledge of the idea.
But oh that's too much, thank you.
What does that mean for fusion? Fusion power is just pure plasma?
Oh, just running on souls?
Right, Shoot it at an aggre.
Shoot it at right.
Well, think about orbs and they're predominance of the that shape. When it comes to mysterious lights in the sky. There you go, that's plasma.
Because I I I still think there's something to do with the plasmaia blood has something to do with a magical experience.
You got back that tis you got plasma.
And the development of our quality of our mitochondria leads to all kinds of changes, right, which might be the juice in that.
Are you good else?
Yep, Yeah, just interesting because I'm I think that too, like that all intelligence is electricity, and I've been kind of following that plasma as consciousness idea, but I'll continue here. Plotinus quotes Thus each entity takes its origin from one principle, and therefore, while executing its own function, works in with every other member of that all from which its distinct
task has by no means cut it off. Each peron forms its act, each receives something from the others, everyone at its own moment, bringing its touch of sweet or bitter. And there is nothing undesigned, nothing of chance in all the process. All is one scheme of differentiation, starting from the first and working itself out in a continuous progression of kinds. So we're returning to that idea of multiplicity.
And I roughly just added a couple pictures. But this one, two, three, four, five, six, seven is reminds me of this quote from the first slide uh, where it says if there were no one, there would be no number, but only non being because of the one, there are two, and so multiplicity from unity, difference is born, but the one itself remains without difference.
Seven rays of light Oh jeez, right, yep, yeah, I mean.
The light spectrum has to be part of this, uh, this algorithm, right, and we don't even know all of those that spectrum. So you know, he continuously talks about the one being this multiplicity principle, but obviously there has to be something limiting that principle, right, And so this is similar to the idea or the story of Uranus and Saturn, right, where Urinus represents the unchecked production of multiplicity and the castration of Uranus symbolizes the imposition of order,
measure and limit on unbounded fertility. Time divides some portions out what was previously undifferentiated, and undifferentiated also kind of means like without form, like unmanifest.
Think about think about chronos and Uranus as being the photon and then the speed of light limited by time, and then you've got the formula kind of laid out right there of how time cuts off light. You know, Uranus is the god of the sky and that's where all of these light forms come from. Like you know, so you've got these geometric principles sort of embedded right there, and the mythology itself. That's why I love the theogeny. You guys haven't read the theogoeny.
Read it.
It's short.
You eat a lot of good ideas from that.
The universal organism is not static, it's a living pulse in hierarchy. For it to work, you need emanation, which is movement outward from the one. You need reversion, so like this relationship between the one and what emanates from it, like recursively, you know where they're tied together and experiencing each other, and you need limitation and form to shape the multiplicity at each level. This triad is a hallmark of neoplatonic metaphysics. In his Tractate on the Intellectual Beauty,
Platinus makes it to the Chronos myth. A says the God, fettered as in the Chronos myth to an unchanging identity, leaves the ordering of this universe to his son Zeus, for it could not be in his character to neglect his rule within the divine sphere, and, as though stated with the Authentic Beauty, seek a lordship to recent and too poor for a mighty ignoring this lower world Chronos, the intellectual principle claims for himself his own father Uranus,
the absolute or one, with all the upward tending between them, and he counts all that tends to the inferior, beginning from his son Zeus, the all soul as ranking beneath him. Thus he solds he holds a mid position, determined on the one side by the difference pferentiation implied in the severance from the very highest, and on the other by that which keeps him apart from the link between himself and the lower. He stands between a great father and
an inferior son. But since that father is too lofty to be thought of under the name of beauty, the second god remains the primarily beautiful.
Well that gets right into Venus and Aphrodite, because what happens after the severance You get the rise of Aphrodite from the sea foam where he threw the member into the ocean. Right, So it's almost like love is the principle that then binds all the rest of the forces together, sort of like the underlying principle behind all.
Of it, that cosmic sympathy. I guess if differentiation were unlimited, you'd get sheer chaos, infinite and distinguishable multiplicity without coherence. Platinus insists that to be intelligible, things need form something that defines that they are limit, a body that distinguishes them from other things. When multiplicity is given limit, it becomes structured multiplicity. The many are arranged in relation to each other. Each one is distinct and knowable, the whole
forms of pattern or harmony rather than random fragments. And then an example is music, right, And I think that music is a great example of these forms. So like if you had infinite sound without limit, it would all just be noise, but it's shaped and by ratio and measure into melody and harmony Platinas says soul. Then in the same way is intent upon a ask of its own and everything it does it counts as an independent source of motion. It may take a direct course, or
it may I might have misspelled that divegate. But a lot.
Maybe you're supposed to say, I.
Don't know, I don't know, But a lot of justice goes with every action in the universe, which otherwise would be dissolved and is predurable because the entire fabric is guided as much by the orderliness as by the power of the controlling force, and in this order, the stars, as being no minor members of the heavenly system, are cooperators, contributing at once to its stately beauty and to its
symbolic quality. Their symbolic power extends to the entire realm of sense, their efficacy only to what they patently do. For our part, Nature keeps us upon the work of the soul as long as we are not wrecked in the multiplicity of the universe. So yeah, I like this because this just ties it all together. There's this law of justice and that there is limitation.
And I think that's what all this reality is about, is the limitation and being.
Yeah, it seems like they can't be form without limitation, and I think, no.
I'm messing with magic or whatever or whatever they consider what was it honosis they would call it, or to think that would be unraveling those limitations, breaking those limitations.
Back to Mercury again, right, so Mercury and Saturn are associated. You've got that that same sort of thing going on here.
Well, yeah, that reminds me too, because like if you start looking into Iamblicus, he believes in like Hecata as a psychopomp that can traverse through like the world soul and the in use, and I think other trains of thought would definitely consider that to be mercury. Right.
Well, they both have a similar psychopompic quality, but I think one is the projective, one is the receptive, and
the three headed goddess would be the receptive version. You know, she's associated with dogs as well, so there's there's some sort of black dog association and snakes, so you've you've also got the keys and in a lot of ways, if you think about Vadicus, the goddess who was on top of that mountain before they put the Vatican there, really has that same sort of quality as Hecata over in Greece or Turkey.
Actually, so the two.
Keys of the Vatican flag might be associated with some sort of a control of goddess worship.
I think that there is some like people have made some relation to like uh Asteria and stuff like that, and that makes me think of goddess worship a lot.
Was that was that the last sorry, go ahead, go ahead.
Well, they had a lot of association with the daughter of Demeter. Well, yeah, daughter of Demeter, which she was kidnapped by Hades, right, and so that idea goes back to Mesopotamia as well. They have this goddess going through the underworld being stripped of different articles of clothing until she's finally at the center and then she's got a rise again. So it's the springtime kind of easter association.
And then you've got Nergall, which is like the complete opposite of all of it, and he's like this bloody god who rises in the spring to wage war on all the rest of the tribes, because you know, to them, spring is at a time of flourishing and everything else. That's war season. That's when you go over to your
neighbors and you steal all of his stuff season. So it's kind of interesting how these different gods and goddesses and associations are really heavily into the culture, and you know, they still have a reflection of each other.
Though when it comes to him talking about the stars and stuff. Do you think he's putting it in the sense that they're not stopping you from having the experience of anosis or is it saying more of like it's not like or it's you know, something to that degree, or do you think he's saying, like, it really doesn't impact your daily life that much, it stops you from achieving thing.
How do you think he's like meaning it in that sense too, when he talks about the stars not impacting us as much as others things.
I think that he would agree that the stars, well, not the stars, right, but the pattern that the stars are mirroring definitely has an effect on the material world. So it can affect things external to you and maybe your b steal form, but it's not going to affect the soul within because that's independent, you know, and that's
just kind of attached to you by choice. But I think that he would believe that it's up to us to kind of contemplate the soul and contemplate the higher sphere so that we can we separate ourselves from the beasteal world, which would be more ruled by those patterns
and stuff like that, and you've become more aligned. And then through that alignment with the higher sphere, you know, you would explore that and contemplate, and eventually, through that contemplation and this act of dialect dialectic, you would reach a hinnosis. So it's about kind of overcoming the best steal and becoming an alignment with the higher sphere.
I think it works on the same level that you know magic works. In the system, everything is associated, and we could choose those associations to some degree, and so by making those new associations through actions and everything else and symbols as well, you can kind of move from one area to another in the same way that you know free will acts on nature. So I think it's all about associations and how these associations play.
Out, you know.
I think also we have to kind of consider as with and I think Nick and I kind of went into all that whenever we were looking at the gematria and numerology and isosophe and all that other stuff. You have to keep in mind what was happening at the time when all this was being thought about, thought about or thought upon in that was this kind of like a pendulum thought from the current thought that everything was
ruled by the movement of the stars. In that were they existing in a time where the stars dictated everyone's actions, thoughts, behavior, whatever. And so his his his, I guess rebuttal to this is that maybe it's not And I agree, but I
think a lot of it too. Is that I think some people take it all the way to the other side, and I think when we forget what was being said, we kind of, you know, listen to the extreme part of it, not keeping in mind that at the time everybody was on the all the way on the other side. So I don't know, just something to kind of insert.
Well, what patterns do you associate these stars with? You know, I mean all of them are associative, so there have to be some sort of relationship based off of the associations in our minds. The way we associate concepts and ideas are basically how we live out our lives. And so if all you're doing is trying to connect the nuts with these stars, you're not going to be doing much else, and so it becomes determinative at that point.
You know, I think it's all I think you have to keep it all in context. I think it's all true. Let me say that, I think there is truth in every single theory and every single concept. And it's like when they say contemplate the soul. I think it is that indicates that we have to look upon each theory or thought or philosophy and tease out what is truth and what is not, and that percentage varies within our own experiences. So one truth for one person is not
going to be absolute truth for another. And that's when you say, contemplate the soul, like what is true to you and then be ruled by that.
Right. So Titus would definitely, you know, he speaks of archetypes a lot, and so he believes in these ideal forms, these ideal archetypes, and these eternal truths, and his tractate on the Dialectic, he talks about this kind of contemplation a lot, where it's this act of comparing and contrasting things, recognizing how things are similar, how things are different, what's true, what's false? What are eternal truths? What are things broken
down to their most simplest parts. And so I think that goes along with a lot of what you were saying, this idea of kind of recognizing those patterns to understand the role that you play and then to ultimately recognize the the One for what it is. And there's a lot of discerning that has to take place to fully recognize the One.
Yeah, something I find interesting is how, yeah, I know Platinus was big on talking about this stuff. With with the stars. You know once like Marsilio Ficino uh started rept you know, translating his stuff. You actually see like with him, uh, it was Tiger Brahe and a few
other people. When you start covering them or looking into them because of them being into this, that whole idea is seemed to resurge again, like at some point in between now and then in between these inniads but kind of saying this stuff and then it changes to where people do think it totally dictates everything. And then these people come back out because this gets translated, it starts
repeating it again. It's kind of funy. You'll see that happen around the Renaissance time is a I know Marceillia Facheetah and Tyco Brahe when I covered them, they definitely had a little bit of a different opinion of the people, and they're saying it definitely can influence, but it is not keeping you in change.
Isn't it funny that conspiracy thinking has become the new form of dominant sort of superstition online.
Yeah, you know.
Some eras it's it's all about the stars, and other eras it's all about you know, conspiracy it's almost a frequency between the two.
Yeah, and that's it, Like it's interesting even like what you know, I was thinking about that kind of what Lisa was getting at, is that like even just an outcome to pushing back on an idea that's just constantly being forced. You're just coming up with something different now, you know, right, Yeah, very.
Interesting in that last sentence relative to what we're talking about. For our part, nature keeps us upon the work of the soul, which is like we're all we're all doing
our own mission. Maybe it's to be the best shoemaker two hundred years ago, but it's all self development internally also, And that last part, as we are as long as we are not wrecked in the multiplicity of the universe, or maybe one could interpret that is, you know, as long as we're not as long as we don't become obsessed with one idea or another into a detrimental pattern, you know, because all these things, as Lisa you said, there's truth in so many different things that sound divergent,
but there's actually truth in them, and in the different planets and the different star So is that that that idea of being wrecked in the multiplicity of the universe is just like wrecked by all these ideas.
Maybe I would agree, And you know how like they say, don't bind yourself to this earthly realm. Well, in essence, if you are governing yourselves by the planets, that's still binding yourself to the earthly realm, because well, I mean, it's what you see, and what you see is earthly. I don't know, but.
Yeah, yeah, absolutely so. China's definitely think so the planets is just like part of the like no different than.
Trees, or I would agree, I would agree, and I almost I would almost guess that maybe at the time when he was walking the streets, people did not I think the planets were also governing the earthly realm, you know, I mean, no, no, that's not how I want to say it, that the planets were also part of keeping you tethered to the earthly realm. By looking at the planets and saying that the planets had an influence, they think that they're trying to be metaphysical or you know, supernatural.
But he still was trying to say, no, you're still being governed by this this binding to the earth.
Well, think about how important the stars would be to an agricultural or agrarian.
Yeah, yeah, well, and it I think it's part of an important evolution anyway, because the patterns that they recognized and the stars, you know, opened up the train of thought that would lead to a greater understanding of the universe. So a lot, a lot of things start that way. I was thinking too with what Ethan last said about
that last sentence. You know, as long as we're not wrecked in the multiplicity of the universe, you know, I just think of chaos again, because you don't know how it's going to overflow, you know, and it's it's always going to be something different, some sort of differentiation. And you know, we are unfortunately on the bottom of the totem pole, I mean above rocks, I guess, but we're still when it comes to like the intellectual sphere, we're
at the bottom. So it's just that idea of like it's going to continuously overflow into things that are different and new and novel, and you just don't know how that's going to affect you and affect the universe.
So and you know Arizona that he kind of did he get into something speaking of the intellectualism, in that some people are more aware than others, be based on how many times you've incarnations, right, in that some people are going to be much more hyper aware of you know, the metaphysical or whatever versus people that are brand new in terms of incarnations or I forgot how he referred to it. And so when you think of like, you know,
don't get wrecked by the multiplicity of the universe. Everyone has their own measuring stick of what is real and what is metaphysical, right, And I'm saying metaphysical lightly like you know, what is not like outside of reality in that based on what he was saying, some individuals are more hyper aware than others, and so you can't expect a person that is not aware of the metaphysical to
have the same measuring stick that you do. And I think that that that when we look at the different truths or how much is true in a theory or whatever, we also have to consider what measuring stick are we like, what rubric are we using to gauge And it's not going to be the same as you know, for me, as it is the next person or my neighbor or anything like that, And how they gauge it is not wrong.
It's just how their soul is now, you know, transversing this understanding of who it is and how it is and how it's evolving within that trajectory.
I don't know.
Yeah, well about think about the word logos, right, so in the Greek it would be the word is almost pure metaphysics like that, that's, you know, the pure state of metaphysical matter, because as you're speaking and discussing, you're almost creating these different ideas and thoughts in a creative sphere. So you've got a connection to the universe on a
personal level with sound frequencies. So in some ways you could see that we're on the bottom of heaven, but we're at the top of hell, and maybe we keep trying to crab bucket each other back down when we could be using our speech and everything else to edify and lift up. So there's a there's an element of positivity there, I think.
I think I heard. So we say, like the best part of hell and the worst part of heaven. So that's where we're stuck in right now.
We're the bacon layer and the blt.
Yeah.
Yeah, he definitely talks about how like every part of the universe is working together to kind of elevate itself to a higher sphere. Right, So that's it's pretty interesting. I forgot what else I was gonna say.
One thing I did want to say about the the planets. You know, when I look at it akabalistic form, I kind of go back and look at it almost like the way I think Headliss said something earlier about frequency and vibration. I just look at it as like those those planets, or just different frequencies that we are, times of chaos of change that we went through before we ended up in physical form, you know, or it's just representing that something that that or light going through different frequencies.
Do you mean like a like we all have different starting points kind of.
Well, I think probably the same starting point, just maybe the different reflections of the different way different frequencies that we all went through to, I mean, into our own form that we are in a human there would probably be like, you know, a certain I'm just gonna make it up like this, like a certain frequency be seen a certain number, but then all the little stuff in between is what makes us all a little separately different
than the next one. But we all fall into this one certain frequency something like that and you go through like you know again, like all that different shit that you know might determine you don't know, I wouldn't say maybe a hype, but like just certain things like that might kind of determine like how you ended up popping out.
But yeah, it certainly seems so right because if the be steal, you can have tendencies that can be related to, you know, an ordering of the planets at your time
of birth, but you can evolve that. Then it does kind of indicate that you do have some sort of starting point that is influenced by the environment of matter, the material world, at the time of your birth, and then kind of how that material world unfolds over time is definitely going to affect you as well if you're not taking charge of your own will to like raise yourself above the material And I think that it's interesting too because I think, like what Lisa was talking about
about kind of these starting points and navigating up to the one, right, Platina talks about these different starting points and these different archetypes and kind of how people are naturally inclined to take these paths. So, for example, if you are really drawn to aesthetics or music or something like that, like compositions of beauty. Then you might recognize these patterns and through through those types of things, right, and then through reflecting on those patterns of aesthetics or
musical composition. You know, that can lead you to deeper contemplation and then to the one. Or if you are just naturally born like virtuous, more virtuous, and more of a meta physician, then it's more of a direct path. But we all definitely have these starting points and these different patterns that we notice that will lead us to that evolution up through the intellect into the one.
Have you ever heard of nominative determinism. No, that's the idea that names can have an outcome on a system. So like if you think of a woman named Karen, that name is kind of determining how she is.
Right. That's such a good example too of like you don't know how the multiplicity will work because ten years ago Karen was a fine name to have.
F it's not.
I think that when he talks about how and you were mentioning aesthetics and music composition and all that other stuff, all that is math, and I think I forgot who it was Nick. We were talking about this but beauty. How we perceive things that are beautiful, just for instance, a human face. What we perceive as beauty is actually recognition of symmetry. We recognize that there is high order of symmetry on someone's face and then perceive them as beauty.
And from a biological standpoint, when we see high order of symmetry and we perceive it as in a brain, then we recognize harmonially they may be someone perfect to mate with, because that means that their DNA has high order of symmetry, high order of organization, and therefore they may be the most suitable to mate with or have
offspring with. And so when we think about high order symmetry, we start thinking about the Fibonacci sequence, about the golden ratio, about pie and all these other higher order mathematical concepts. And when we get into some of these philosophers that talk about the One or the source, they are in relation to symmetry and mathematics, and there are many of them that believe that you can math your way to God. And so I think all of that kind of goes
hand in hand with itself. How our brains perceive beauty, esthetics, symmetry, and so forth. So I don't know, And the soul is usually inclined towards symmetry, whether it's music, composition, literature, or anything like that, because that is I think part of a reflection of the soul realizing the math towards source.
Yeah, Platinis does talk about how them met a physition has to become adapt at mathematics, and I think that recognizing beauty is like recognizing these patterns of order in this cosmic harmony.
Is anything else anybody wanted to do? You have more slides? Well, okay, I thought.
It kind of was it Marcus Orrelius that focused on the good, the true, and the beautiful? He was almost making a metaphysical statement and everybody just sort of took it as like a moral statement. But like these are these are ways of seeing the world that exist outside of what we know of those words. You know, there
there's something different and something deeper to that concept. And I think that's probably why the Stoics were so uh so interesting to everybody, because they kind of went along that same pathway of hermetic thinking more you know, neo platonic thinking.
Yeah, that beauty or that idea of arrows, right, it's almost like this drive towards the one. It's like, not like erotic, but kind of like in that. I mean that is a path to the one, right to like recognizing patterns or whatever. But there is just this innate craving and like attraction towards the one that draws us in that parallels and beauty and certain sensory thing.
Think about the Greeks obsession with beauty. That's the whole purpose that they thought. It was getting them closer to God and their way of thinking.
I mean it's like even when you get into the Kabbalah, I that's like an idea of a sphere. You know, beauty, I mean even when it comes into like a cultism or depending on how you're taking and it can even have a negative connotation in a sense. You know, the beauty of the bedazzles, what took you off the course of what you were doing. You know, that made you fall in love with something other than I guess your commitment to being a magician something like that.
Well, I think it's all got to line up. That's how you get home. You've got it all in a row. That's the way it's supposed to, you know, flourish and blow them.
I think when the beauty makes you lust, that's the problem. Yeah, but uh, was anything else that you guys wanted to say or ed? I think that was great. Actually I had a really good time with him. Absolutely, Yeah, Erros will definitely have to move on to another one. We got to do on ostssism or something or on site. Nice.
Yeah we should do on site at some point.
Yeah, I would really like that. But yeah, this was really fun. I really had a good time. I appreciate everybody else are jumping on as well. Was there anything that you wanted to plug errors or anything you wanted to mention before we wrap it up?
Nothing that I didn't mention in the beginning, But I really appreciate you guys having me on and it was too bad an get to go over on site a bit more. I feel like I jypped you a little bit, right, No.
Well, these things, honestly, there's a lot to them. So I mean, really trying to stick to of these into one episode, you know, it could be a lot. You know, you may not do injustice if you try to crunch them. So not a problem is you know, I'm not going anywhere right now? So I'm sure we can do another one down the road. So yeah, real quick, I just want to let people know if they have not listened to the Platina show that I did, please go check it out. And if you're interested in that stuff, go
check out her channel. She does cover the any ads. I will get her links of I forgot to add them. I forgot to put anybody's links. Actually, after the show, I will throw in her links so you can go check out her Twitter and her YouTube. But thank you very much, Erro. So let everybody know where they can find you as well, if you.
Can find me on Twitter at Arrows to Eat Those and on YouTube as Arrows Up.
And again, thank you so much for coming on. I'm glad you responded. I really appreciate it. That was a good time, and yeah, of course, of course, you know, we'll definitely get you back on again. And my man, Ethan, please let everybody know what's up with you and where they can on your amazing work and your books.
Pisa Aros, that was awesome, very inspiring. Thank you for sharing.
I'm easy to find on the usual social media sites and Ethan Indigo Smith on Amazon too. I got a few books and yeah, I appreciate talking with you guys as always. Thanks for putting this together.
Of course, of course, and go check out his books. He's got a plethor of so I'm sure there's one in there that you'll like. And my man, Headless Giant, what is going on?
Sir?
How you doing?
You can find me on x at the Headless Giant and also on YouTube, and if you have any occult or strange or magical experiences that you want to tell the world about on Thursdays, you can send it to me at the Headless Giant Podcast at gmail dot com. Thank you for this episode. It was a great time.
Well yeah, thank you Heller, So I appreciate you coming on and contributing. And lastly, but Ales, Lisa, what is going on? How are you? Thank you very much much for joining us.
Thank you Nick, Thank you for inviting me on Fellow Rejects. Always great to chop it up with you. Airs up. You did amazing. I really really liked your presentation and definitely I think with this topic, I think it was good to concentrate on just this itself because you could deep dive into some of the other stuff way more and we would probably not do it. We would do it a disservice if we were just kind of picking and choosing. I think, like actually going concentrating on this
is really good. I love that you picked the specific ones to talk about it hit on so many different episodes that Nick has covered recently. So and then of course Nick's amazing. Latina's so thank you so much. The only thing to plug is soirly Lisa on Twitter, and please check out the Afficult Research Institute dot org where some of the rejects like that and head lists as well, has contributed to some projects literarily and checks out there a cult Research Intoitute dot org.
Thank you, thank you very much, Lisa. I appreciate it. I'm glad you I'm glad you made it. I appreciate your contribution. And again, Erros, I really appreciate you coming on. I had a really good time. I needed that. It was really something that I wanted to talk about. I was looking forward to it, and it was a good way to start off my Saturday. So I appreciate it, and we'll definitely do this again again. Thank you everybody
in the chat. I really appreciate everybody here. There's a lot of people here, from the beginning to the end, and that's what's up, and that's why I go live. And uh yeah, glad everybody enjoyed it. And until the next one, everybody be well later