You see somethings going to happen.
What's going to happen?
What help?
Welcome to the Occults Rejects this episode.
We got a bunch of people with us today.
Today we even got like a special guest and the guest h today joining me. We got I'll start first with Heidi Love.
What is going on? Heidi? How are you?
Hey?
Everybody?
I'm good to be here. Thank you for having me, Heidi Love of the Unfiltered Rise. I'm happy to be here and I'm happy to be with all of you guys.
Awesome, Thank you very much, and I appreciate you jumping on.
And we got ethan Indigo.
Sir, Please let everybody know what you're dealing is well.
It is my honor to be here, and I'm looking forward to exchanging ideas with everyone. And I'm a writer and so on and so forth and an observer of all this crazy madness. Well, honor to be here. You believe you guys, of.
Course you know I was appreciate you going on, sir, and special guests joining us today. With our guest is Miguel from aon Bite. I'm sure you all know who he is, but in case you don't. Please we go let everybody know where they can find all your amazing work.
Good to be here, thanks for having me on. Oh simple look at my name Miguel Connor dot com and it's all there.
Yes, And if you haven't heard the occult Elvis, please go check it out and check out that book, some wild, bugged out stuff. I'll be totally honest with you. There was a lot of stuff I had no idea about Elvis until Miguel.
Told this, So please go check out so interesting.
Yes, and finally we got Julia Gordon Braemer. Am I saying it correctly?
Again? I think I asked you last time?
You are all right?
Yes?
Long, Yes, we got her back on again and we had a great time when she was on last time, talking about Sylvia Plath. And I'll be toally honest with you. If it wasn't from Miguel, I would never have known who this lady was. So that was the reason why I kind of even asked him to come on. But we got her today.
It's a book you must have, a book you must have, and it's a great book that.
I keep going back to.
Yeah, and I have to laugh because what we're going up again, So, whether it's a Colt Elvis or Paul Wilde in his book about Jim Morrison, is this resistance to the spiritual world the benefits because I remember I put out your podcast, Julia, and I put it on Facebook and other social media, and low and behold you got these people. Well she just dabbled with it. It wasn't a big deal. I mean, it was just the resistance to the truth is incredible. So I'm sure you
can really And I get the same with Elvis. I mean, their back on me, like no, he was a conservative Christian. You're just lying, And I'm like, here's the data.
You know this isn't it crazy? Yeah, they don't want to see it. They have their their tunnel vision.
And the funny thing with that is it just like like you know, we're not saying they're a bad person for this, right, Like that's not the reason of the book. If anything, were saying they were more intelligent and had more to offer to us than we thought they did. And people get upset with that. Now it's it's funny, it's very interesting. But yeah, like Miguel said, definitely go check out that book, check out the episode. It was a blast and that's why we had to have her
back on again. We had such a great time. So Julia, please let everybody know they can find all the amazing stuff. And yes, we'll be talking about Tyro Life Lessons, which is another book.
Of hers as well.
Yeah, yeah, well, I mean you can. You can find out anything about me on Julia Gordon Bremer dot com and and I'm on all the social networks on Facebook and Instagram and Twitter X all of that, So Jay Gordon Bramer on on X and on Insta. But yeah, where do you want to start here? I mean, gosh, I've been a Tarot card reader for over forty six years now. I guess that's a place to start, right.
So I guess that was one of the reasons why you wrote a book on taro.
Yeah, I wanted to write a book that well, when I first wrote it, I mean, it came from my journal entries. So my working title was the Tarot Diaries because I wrote it for myself. I wrote it with you know, I would have these incredible readings that I just didn't want to forget, and I was like, oh my god, I can't believe this happened, you know, and
something would come up. And as a writer, you know, I'm also a creative writer and a poet, and I just wanted to capture the little vignettes for myself and so I so I would just jot something down, and I would, you know, when this card would come up, or I would see somebody's face change when they would recognize such and such with this other card, and you know, and I got down all those little moments, and it was the stories that floored me.
You know.
They they were a murder showed up, covering up manslaughter, showed up addictions, you know, terrible addictions, gambling addictions, alcohol addictions, drug addictions. There was some really strange things where there was one situation where somebody was impersonating me. And like, what has come up in the cards has been mind blowing. And so what I did was I assembled them all in the order of the major arcana and I and
I just had a little fun with it. I learned that from Sylvia Plath because all of Sylvia Plath's work that she assembled, including the Bell Jar, her novel, was all in this major Arkana order. So she so she taught me and uh and and I put all of my little stories together, and and that became Tarot life Lessons, So uh so yeah, it was They're all true. I wanted to write a book that I had never seen before about the taro. You know, there's there's tons of
how to read Tarot books. I didn't want to write another one of those. You can you can look up you know what cards mean all over the place.
You know.
I wanted something to be different there.
That's great because my next question was going to be what makes this book different than all the other ones? So I guess you kind of answered that, right.
So I was going to say, everybody's got books on tower to tell you how to read it. What makes you as different? So thank you? Awesome?
Yeah, real life stories. You know, it's kind of like when when you're reading my book, you're sitting on my shoulder or or in my head and uh and you're getting the story, uh as I'm You're you're understanding my thoughts and my feelings and uh and how I'm interpreting the cards.
Wow, this is interesting. Nice.
Uh Is there any like I guess maybe, is there any examples of things that you would want to bring up from that maybe you could think of like love.
Hands yeah, sure, you know. Uh, well, like I said, you know, there's a lot of very different kinds of of things that have come up.
Uh.
The very first story is my own story. It's in Alignment with the Fool card and how I got into Taro, and and how I how I found my own natural intuition, and and and my journey into into mysticism of all kinds, and and even the Sylvia Plath work is mentioned in there because it's all been such a part of of
my spiritual journey. I definitely feel that Plath in her way called me maybe to the Taro initially, because when I was sixteen, that was when I also found the bell Jar and you know, and discovered her as a writer and a poet, so, which was the same age I found the Taro. So so I kind of marvel at that, and I think, okay, maybe she had, maybe she was orchestrating this all along. But as you know, so I tell my own story in the first the first story in the Tarot Life Lessons in Alignment with
the Fool. The second story in Alignment with the Magician. If you know anything about the Taro, the magician is sometimes the con artist or the trickster and the story of a scam artist who who basically had convinced a woman on Facebook, a widow, to you know, turn over her entire retirement and uh and I got very attached to this woman and was really begging her to not do this, and uh, you'll you'll see it. You know.
I form really interesting relationships with my clients, and some of them, you know, I care, uh And and it's it's kind of a problem. Sometimes I almost wish I didn't because I can't run their lives for them, And especially when we get into something like that or or something like the gambling addict who is in U in the story with my Wheel of Fortune card. Uh, you know,
I basically watching someone destroy her life with gambling. And you know, there is a helplessness in reading the cards and seeing, you know, having people weep openly because they're recognizing what they're going through, and yet they seem incapable of stuff. You know, that's the problem. I can show people what's going on, and I can give them guidance,
but I can't fix it for them. And boys, sometimes I sure wish I could, But you know, it's kind of like parenting that way, right, so there's lots of stories, lots of different kinds of stories. You know, there's a man at a wedding and an older man, he was probably nearing eighty, who his card showed that he'd never been loved at all, and the two of us were sobbing and holding hands. You know that he was the
hermit that. You know, there's a lot of interesting things that have come up over all of these years that I've done this professionally, and almost all of them are my professional stories, although there are a couple that were personal readings that I did for friends and uh, and they showed up as well. So there was a young man who had very severe ADHD and just kind of couldn't keep on task and and uh and and yeah, so you know there's just uh, I matched something to
every one of the major Arconic cards and uh. But you but it goes beyond just that one card, because you'll see the whole process. You'll see the whole reading and uh, and how I have the reading unfolded and how I interpreted what. You know, sometimes cards don't always mean what they supposedly mean. Sometimes we look at a card and we get an entirely different message from what
the books might say. Uh, but that's that's in the intuitive part that that I cover as well with Tara Life Lessons, And every chapter has a tip at the end of it for people who are reading. So, you know, yeah, so I think it's a it's an you know, people tell me it's an interesting read even if you know nothing about Taro, because you get a lot of good
people's stories and amazing stuff. And then if you do know Taro, it'll give you tips on how to be maybe a better tarot card reader and or how to how to trust your intuition and how to step into it more. Because I'm pretty seasoned doing this for over forty six years.
Yeah, I was going to ask that, So somebody who really doesn't know much about Taro, this book wouldn't be like out of their realm to be able to pick up.
Now. In fact, a lot of male friends and my husband have read it, you know, who don't have a tarot deck. You know, they were just kind of interested in what the hell is it that I do, you know, and why you know, you know, people sometimes think I'm conjuring spirits or you know, they kind of liken it to a weij aboard and I want to dispel all of that, you know, explain in the book. It's it's
more psychological. It's kind of dream analysis in some ways, you know, kind of just show people what they already know on their highest level of a consciousness, you know, bringing it to to the world's consciousness here and uh and giving them tools.
Really, do anybody want to ask any questions? Before I start asking more, I just want to ask me.
That's just such a wonderful way to present the archetypes that unfold out of the cards, if you will, And and I just I think that's a great way to almost intuitively learn what is an intuitive practice. So that's that's really awesome. Is there is there something?
Uh?
Is there is there a quality or some some kind of general philosophy or outlook that you might share that's not a specific order of operations as far as your different types of readings, but just something you might impart on those looking to use the donation.
Yeah. Yeah, So so there's a lot Taro and a lot in my personal studies that I may be in few in my readings. You know, I've been studying Buddhism for quite a number of years. Uh, also read the Tao, and I think that some of those teachings and stories come into my readings on occasion. I have a background in the Episcopal Church, you know, so I have a traditional Christian background, and and I find the Bible endlessly valuable.
Although I may interpret the Bible different from from a fundamentalist. I see the Bible as a seriously mystical book and that that you know, might might some people uncomfortable. And you know, I've been told make some people uncomfortable. I teach and study a course in miracles, which which I would say is very close to Buddhism, and it's you know, a course in miracles is kind of Buddhism with a with a Christian slant, because it's about owning your christ
consciousness and reaching your high Self God Self basically. And then finally, through the ploth work, I got opened up to Kabbala. And so I really knew nothing about Kabbala before the plaoth Work except, uh, you know, i'd heard the term, and I knew like Madonna and Britney Spears had like little red bracelets on their wrist, you know,
that had something to do with Kabbala. But I knew nothing about it, and as I got into the plath work, that opened me up to understanding that that Kabbala is this this kind of you know, divine blueprint that all of the occult systems fit onto, you know, perfectly, and in the most amazing way, and in truly a divine way. And and you know, so so mythology, alchemy, you know, all of these things that I never really explored. Through the plathwork and through Kabbala, I began to open up
into those directions. And of course the tarot embodies all of that. You know, the tarot has an alchemical reading to each card, an astrological reading to each card, you know, the hermetic order of the Golden Dawn of course made our modern tarot deck today that the writer weight, and and so all of that infuses my readings because I will look at a card and you know, it'll mean, It'll mean a lot more than just what the what
the books would say. You know, I take it deeper, and I add lessons and kind of build into I try to give my clients tools so that they can take away some guidance and not just have a fortune telling episode.
You know, Yeah, I was gonna ask, and again you beat me too, and I ask about incorporating the kabbala, I would just assume when you do that kind of From my opinion, I think it helped me obviously when I started playing with Taro. But I could see you being able to maybe get much more of a life lessons of stories when you can kind of incorporate what's going on in the cabala with where the card fools. I think it just gives out a much more deeper ritually understanding and story behind the art.
I love that.
Was there anything that you saw popping up like over and over again that like made you think about like even doing this, you know, writing this?
I guess was there a certain life and that you really you know kind this?
Yeah? I so. So. I really just had my journals, which you know, were not all tarot recordings that lot,
you know, personal stuff whatever. During I had shared to my with my husband during COVID that I had done all of you know, that I'd been recording some of these and and and I would tell him some of these stories, you know, I would come home and I'm like, God, you wouldn't believe this party and people sat in front of me, and this happened, and this happened, and he was always saying, you need to write this down, and sometimes I would, and sometimes I would plan to write
it later. And anyway, during COVID, you know, we all had our downtime, and I said to Tom, yeah, you know, maybe i'll put maybe I'll go through my journals and assemb all something. And so I put it in this book form, and I decided, well, it would be fun
to tell my story upfront. As the fool kind of play with that a little bit, just sort of falling into it, because of course I never set out to be a professional tarot card reader, and you know, if anyone had, you know, like, why would somebody choose a career that gets you virtually no respect out in the world, you know, and you know, and challenged in academia and
all of that stuff. But yeah, so somehow, somehow, it all just evolved and happened, and so I thought it would be fun to tell my story up front, and because everyone asks me, like, how do you become a professional tarot card reader? You know, And so I did that. And interestingly, so I just had this book sort of put together, and I hadn't really planned even to send it out, but in you know, they say when we're
in flow, when we're in synchronicity, everything on folds. And I got a a fan letter over on Instagram for my Sylvia Plath work, and this woman wrote me and she said, I've read your first three books and I'm fascinated by what you're doing, and do you have anything
else coming out on Plath? And I said, well, it's interesting that you mentioned this because I spent the last fifteen years working on this biography on Plat's mysticism, but I wasn't finding a publisher for it, and I just kind of put it away and I wrote this other book,
you know, just for fun. And she said, I want to introduce you to my friends over at Inner Traditions, and long story short, she gave me the introduction to the editor and they snatched up both books, and so Tarot Life Lessons came out first in twenty twenty three and the Occult Sylvia Plath came out in May of
twenty twenty four. And what a gift. I mean, it just felt like very in synct you know, I didn't even try, and and that's a god thing when when it just done folds like that, and and they've been a wonderful publisher too. Just couldn't be happier with in our traditions, which on my books as Destiny Books, that's the imprint of inner traditions.
I've had so many of their authors on if I ever go to publish a book, they've had a publisher for me.
I canna tell them that. No, No, they.
Feed me so many people on their old grades, so I appreciate it. No, it's ah some place for.
Me to deal with.
So another thing I did want to ask, I guess, like after after doing this book, well while doing it, or like putting it together, did you ever kind of look at any of the major arcana a little bit differently now from looking at like maybe a string of seeing it maybe show up differently in the stories and now you're like, hmm, this is a little weird or different for you.
Interesting.
You know, I have been doing I have been reading Taro for so many years that I may look at a card and the story might kind of jump in my head for a moment. But when I'm reading, I'm very connected to who I'm reading for, so it'll be their story, not necessarily mine. And so no, I wouldn't say that the book has changed my perception of the cards.
You know, when we're reading, we're we're channeling. Basically, we're very connected to that person and you know, and what they most need and I'm asking spirit to tell me what they need to see here, and you know, and I do love the cards because they're so visual and I can share that. And sometimes sometimes I won't know what I'm seeing, but I'll hold it up and they'll know, you know, they'll be like, oh my gosh, yes, of course that makes perfect sense to me. Sometimes my clients
don't explain to me what it means. It might be too personal. I've had that happen where I've I've said some words that I'm not even sure of what I'm speaking, and they are reduced to tears or something. But they may keep it to themselves. And that's cool, because it's not my business. My business is just to give them the message nice.
Nice Have you ever had, like I guess, when it comes to doing these readings and stuff, where you find yourself in a situation where you, I guess you don't want to instill fear. I'm a little bit more of empowerment instill instead, So maybe you try to word the reading differently, not differently, but try to like give them more of empowered because sometimes people, I think you'll can also be very frightening with them.
Oh sure, sure, I mean it's not a responsible tarot card reader who you know, who says you're going to die next month or something. You know. That's yeah. Now it could be if I were talking to someone with stage four cancer who was in hospice, you know, and that might be all right, we got to you know, say our final words to the people we love, you know, and that has happened actually, so that would be, you know,
an extenuating circumstance. But in general, you know, we don't tell people there you know, they're cursed or that, you know, I just I believe that I'm reading for you because we're connected just by being alive. I call that life force God. So you know, we are both hooked into that God system, and we have great power over our lives. And so if we see something coming up that we don't like, it's an opportunity to do it differently, you know.
So like I said, it's it's always a heads up, it's always an opportunity to shift into maybe a different behavior or at least a different and way to look at something. You know, sometimes we cannot change other people, or we cannot change world circumstances, but we can change our perception of it.
Have you ever been lied to by the like like spirits.
I'm just curious, I mean, because I read John d.
You know, not by spirits. I've been lied to by my clients right right. But yet, you know, I I believe that I'm connecting with Holy Spirit, so I'm not going to get l like. You know, it's funny people have asked me about wija boards just to get on a little tangent for a second. I have a joke that you know that the Oija board does not believe in me. And I say that because it's never worked
for me. And I've had people who say I'm a master at wija you know, it's you know, they claim, and they've channeled all kinds of things and gotten all kinds of spirits to show up, and every time I've sat down, which has been numerous times, it's just dead. It is nothing. And I realized that's because I am not open to random spirits. I only want source. I
only want love and light. I don't want to contaminate myself with those dark energies, and so I've put that guard up and it's not going to work for me, so I won't get lied to. A tricky spirit would lie, you know. Now, people lie. And I have had situations which, you know, it's kind of funny where I'm thinking of three sisters that I read for at a kind of an outdoor fare event and I read for one and they're like amazed. I read for another and she's like wow.
And then the third one she's like, now now not done, sound like me? Not true now, you know, and she's just poo pooing the whole thing. Well, as soon as she got up, the other two sisters were like, don't believe her.
She was lying, she's you know, and they said, I nailed her, you know. So so sometimes you know, whether they're lying to themselves and they just don't want to see it, or whether they're just not.
Wanting to admit it to me. You know. I've also had things where things like, you know, uncomfortable situations like affairs have come up, and people don't always want to admit something like that, you know, they kind of like WHOA. And I don't push it, like, you know, I'm not asking for a confession. I'm I'll just say what I see and they can acknowledge it or not. You know, but.
Sister had some slain interview or something.
No, just kidding, right, right right.
I wonder as you practice taro. I mean it's kind of a dundant question, but you might have some experiences that are not so how much as you practice taro, how much does that kind of build on your random intuition or your intuition outside of tara.
Yeah, well, you know what I've learned. When I was younger, Taro was my crutch and I needed the cards. And as i've gotten older, and I mean significantly older, like I'm talking later fifties, I've realized that I'm in my early sixties. Now, I've realized that I have all that in me already, and I just didn't trust it. And so I'm better now at you know, I'm what they call Claire audience. So I'm sure you know all your you know, there's clairvoyant and Claire Claire sentient and Claire audience.
So I hear it in my head and and yeah, you know, I've just learned that the cards are helpful. The cards are helpful because my clients like to see the pictures and they explain things. But I can do
readings without the cards. I just like the cards, honestly, and my clients like the cards, and it validates, you know, to my clients, they're like, especially if they know me, it's one thing, you know, like I have a lot of I have some clients I've been talking to for ten fifteen years, and so they know me and they
totally trust me and my abilities. But maybe somebody new might be like, well, she's just making shit up, you know, and so but if I pull a card and hold that up and explain, then it's sort of a oh like, like they get it a little more. You know, they can trust it a little more because they can see for themselves that this has come up.
I had two questions.
I don't show not which one I want to go with first, because it's going to kind of change the use the tone. Was there any things that maybe you'd like to say because we were kind of saying it before, you know, I do want to when it comes to Taro, I think to an extent, there is like a little bit of a you know, it doesn't have the best
the best I guess name to it. Sometimes is there any like kind of things that maybe you wanted to like yell or just say, like certain things that seems to go on a lot that you just like to sell like it's not really like that or whatever.
Right, A lot of people are afraid of it, you know, they think I'm conjuring spirits or demons or they heard, you know, in their churches that it's evil. And you know, that's so crazy to me because I feel so God centered in it. And I know now I have had fundamentalists tell me, well that Satan who's tricking you? You know? But but wow, Satan has sure done a heck of a job with Holy Spirit, because because I've seen really beautiful, positive, loving,
wonderful things happen. It's never been dark. It's always been helping. It's my purpose. I mean, I'm here as a light worker and I absolutely believe that. And and and so you know there's I am. I am not wanting anything to do with Satanic energy myself. I know a lot of people are. You know, they sort of lump it all in as a cult and Tarrot, and you know, in a cult of course, just means that. It just means hidden, and it's what the masses are are a
little uncomfortable about, you know. Get getting back to when when we were talking about, you know, the the occult Elvis and the occult Jim Morrison, and you know, the stuff is sort of all coming out now and and it and and people are just really uncomfortable with what's not familiar, and so the occult is about it's very unfamiliar territory. But I do get people every now and then.
There's a story in Tarot Life Lessons of when I was working a Renaissance fair and some very gothy kids came in and they were, you know, in their pentagram necklaces and their black eyeliner, and they're you know, and they're like expecting like demon stuff, you know, and they wanted me to be all cool and demonic, you know. Uh, And boy was disappointing to them. And I and I shared a thing or two about their energies because one of the one of the things I have found is
people who mess with that. I say, yeah, there's there's a certain amount of power in that. And if you look at the people who mess with that, they're almost all in very poor physical health. They're generally either obese or emaciated as well. It's a very interesting circumstance that I don't think you can mess with that dark energy and not be physically stripped of your of your physical power. It's it's very interesting. I want nothing to do with.
It, Julia, what do you think about the idea? And of course there's means and tiktoks about it and documentaries. There is a dark side to New Age and it's out there. Obviously, there's a shadow sight to everything, and unfortunately creditors and hucksters they go where they go could be a fundamentalist church, could be the New Age movement, and they are out there exploiting women, taking money from men, getting addicted to drugs. So it's always going to happen
in any sort of arena. So what do you do to sort of watch out for it or warn others about it?
Or yeah, well, you know, I think it's on a case by case basis, right. I I was reading for a friend who became very upset because a girlfriend of hers has followed this man. He's sort of a I don't know he considers himself like a prophet or something, and he's he believes he's you know, like possessed by an angel and and uh, and he's basically got this harem of women who he's got them all branding themselves with a kind of a you and and they're all
his concubines, you know. And and I'm like, what the hell? You know? You know, stuff there there's a a lot of weird, dark energy stuff that's right here in Saint Louis, by the way, you know, that the heart of the nation. But you know, I, I know I have clients who get into you know, They've told me about things like orgies and burning man. You know, you know, it's it's not really my world. And and I guess, you know, I listen and and if I can offer advice on
somebody to navigate in their own personal life. But every circumstance is different, so you know, there there's definitely stuff going on.
Yeah, well, take off my nick tattoo. I hope nobody sees it.
Yeah, I still got the unic.
That's an interesting problem that you bring up, Miguel. And sometimes I'll point out to people that, at least for me personally, I don't pursue new age. I pursue old age right where I'm actually looking for almost the carving on the wall or the hermetic scroll or whatever. You know, the old age stuff is presented as new age and gets deformed or perverted for these you know.
I totally agree with that.
Yeah, So I.
Think it was gonna say, even with Tower when I think it just goes with everything. It all depends on the person using it in my opinion as well. I mean, it's really on the intentions on the user. I think it can be used for good things and it can be used for horrible things.
Yeah. Plus there's no as I always say, there's no guarantees. Oh yeahs open the door. You know, there's no guarantees. And if you want to know the truth and know thyself, there's going to be a lot of pain. There's going to be pain and ego death and adjustment. Some people want, as somebody said, they don't want transformation. They just want their broken toys mended, and they end up in that
attitude and they go down the wrong path. So it's, uh, it's supposed to be somebody else said, Yeah, mysticism is supposed to be destructive by definition what it is.
Yeah, I mean that's the tower card, right, and and on the tower card that the crown is knocked off, which is of course the ego. And uh, you know, and I like to say the foundation is wrong and the building has to come down, and it's the next card in the series is the Star, which is our hosts and our dream, everything coming true, you know, after that destruction of the ego. So yeah, it's all, it's all part of it. And and it isn't easy to face this inner stuff, and not everybody use for it,
you know. And that's another reason why people are not always comfortable with the hero. I guess they don't want to see the truth, you know. They don't want to see how they really feel. It's much easier to just numb that out with distractions or addictions, you know.
Yeah, that's why I love the Course of Miracles. I'd see it as very gnostic because it does teach that everything is a projection. And I always like everything it is true. Every time I get mad or jealous or fearful or I have to look within, because there I am projecting something from another life. Sure people are wrong and mean, but I am participating in some way or another.
So it's not easy.
I was going to say, I think Julia found that one out of three are going to deny it. Right in your story of the three sisters, they're you know, I'm going to not want to hear the lessons they must face.
Oh yeah, that's that's kind of an interesting little analogy right in the work out in the world.
Yeah, and but but those two out of three are are are willing and doing the work, and you know, maybe that maybe that's hopeful for for the world today.
I do believe most people want to do good and and be decent people. You know, maybe not everyone, but most people. So it's part of you know, part of the.
Yeah, meat Loaf did sing two out of three ain't bad? Who would bring me love? A cult discussion? Nobody but me?
Right that that was the best. The meat Loaf interview with Dan Rather was one of the best interviews I've ever seen. The guy had such a life. Oh yeah, he's got the big interview. It's a show Dan Rather did, And yeah, look up meat Loaf, what a life. Guy was amazing? Will trip you out.
Wow, I'll have to check that out. I really don't know much about that guy at all.
Yeah, yeah, you'd be surprised.
There's a rumor. I have to check, and I don't know if it's true because I'm getting so much information about Elvis. But there's a story that Elvis was originally going to play Meat Love's character in the Rocky Horror Show. He would have been more Elvis. But I don't know if it's true or not.
I don't think the timing is right. I think Elvis was dead before Rocky Horror came out, because I remember when Elvis died. I was probably I was probably about thirteen when Elvis died, and I feel like Rocky Horror came out a couple of years after that because I was at the theater see in Rocky Horror.
No, those are great shows. Yeah, No, Rocky Horror was nineteen seventy five, so it was it was before Elvis. So I don't know if it's any true, but yeah, I love the Rocky going to one of those were a lot of fun, Julie until they got all I don't know, politically correct, because when we used to go it was just it was a wild thing. People were throwing stuff and dancing. It was out of control. Then suddenly it was like, oh no, you have to stay
in your chair. We'll give you the bag of throwing popcorn. You can't get on stage and dance with you know, doctor franken Furd, like the old you know, it just became really terrill and I stopped going. I wanted to you know, it became like a mosh pit.
Sometimes we were the same era.
Yep, it was a class. We can't have fun things. As they say, it's just.
Can't do the time warp anymore?
What is this? No wonder there's world's falling? Aboart?
What time ethan? Yeah, you want to ask?
I was going to ask a sort of technical question as a neophyte, and I hope the question is not misguided as a neophyight, but could you present maybe the characteristics of each of the four suits, if you will, of the tarot, the the swords, stuffs, pentacles, and wands, if cups. Excuse me, if they do share characteristics or maybe they're all different in the in the numbers.
Yeah, yeah, they're they're different. They you know, I like to point out that they align with a regular deck of playing cards. So so some people ask, like, how can fortunes from a regular deck of playing cards. And I can do that because they match. So the wanes would with the clubs and a regular deck of cards, and wands are about energy and enthusiasm. Typically creativity is
also part of that. So so when I see wands, I I I know that it's it's a high energy kind of situation or a creator or an imaginative situation or something I'm enthusiastic about. Cups are love and emotion. They have they tend to have water in them, so it's about flowing and you know, an expression. And so cups are in alignment with the hearts in a traditional deck. Swords would be in alignment with the with the spades and and and that would be a Swords are about
striking out. They're about actions. They can also be about decision. Uh be customers are sharp. And then are those gold coins and that is money and you know the things of earth, and that would be in alignment with the diamonds in a traditional deck of cars. So all of those suits they have those main properties. And then we've got in the mind, we've got the numberses. Uh we
kin to ones, the new banks twos. They tend to be partnerships, relationships, so you know, so like a two of cups is a very loving partnership, a two of ones is a partnership like going out into the future with with some enthusiasm, you know. But then it gets a little weird, like two of swords can be sort of like a stalemate kind of thing. So there's there's It isn't quite as simple as one number means just
one thing. Uh but but each number has, you know, the numerological properties that those suits and expands on the meaning. And then of course we're looking at the meaning of you know, the pictures in the cards. So when I let me get a minor arconic card, so I got like the three of pentacles here, and this is a promise or a commitment, and you can see it looks like a marriage in fact, you know of vows, and so when this shows up, it's about making a commitment
toward the direction of your life. So it could be marriage, or it could be signing on the dotted line to buy a car, or it could be committing to do a job of some kind or in reverse, letting go of a job of some kind. You know. So they all have their their meanings within the numbers and their
meanings within the suits. Going beyond those major arconic cards like the Hangedman, the famous ones that we know from Hollywood, you know, the Fool, the Lover's Death, that can those are the major arkana cards.
That was such a wonderful explanation. You just completely de occulted terror.
That was wonderful.
I like how you tied it to playing cards.
Thank you. Yeah, Well, anybody can read uh fortunes. You know, it lacks a lot because of course you don't have the major arcana, which are the milestones. But if you know the basics, if you've learned the number system, and you maybe remember what the actual terror arts look like.
So I pull out a four of club and I'm thinking a four of wands, you know, and so in my four of Wand's mind, I'm thinking, Okay, it's like a neat little house and a happy family and everything's in order, and so it's an order and have everything in place at home, and some more of clubs that doesn't have any pictures on it except the four clubs, but I can relate it to that. So that's that's how we do it. If we're reading from a regular deck of cards.
Now, I know you had mentioned before, you know, the cabbala and tying it to the Cabala. I guess do you want to like give maybe the listeners a little bit of an idea of how you do that. I mean, I know I've mentioned it on my show plenty of times, maybe hearing it from somebody else. You know, how do you attribute the cars onto the major account to the tree?
Well it fits. I mean, if you were to look up online you can see, and you can anyone can do a search and see how the tarot fits on the Kabbala tree of life. There is a card for each of the seffaro, which are the main stations of the Kabbala tree of life, the card for each pathway connecting the suff It all fits together in this incredibly beautiful system. And I do profess to be an expert Cabbalist.
I'm I wonder if anyone can be. Honestly, it's it's such, it's it's such a journey to learn Kabala, and there's so much to it. I as I understand. Uh, they say that no one is even capable under forty years old, and uh, and and it traditionally it was always a man's pursuit, which I find very interesting. But but uh, you know, in the books I've read on Kabbala and the copy of the Zohar, and you know, I I dip into it and I I use it much like
any other kind of scripture and and just learn from it. So, you know, I remember learning about addiction in the Kabbala and about how it was our favorite distraction to keep ourselves numb so that we don't feel our feelings. You know, that just little lessons that I've picked up from Kabbala. But but I think it, you know, it's a very involved, deep, deep study. We're talking about the dark side. There's that whole cliphos, that that other shadow side in the Kabbala
Tree of life. Some people have devoted their lives just to studying that.
You know.
It's it's all, it's all fascinating. It's a map of creation, and it's I think it's a it's an understanding of how the gods system works and how the universe was created. And it's very you can go as high level and superficial as you want or as deep as you want, and some people have gone so deep that you know, they've been accused of going into madness. And yeah, it's a lot, it's a lot, but but I think that
I think that it's got something for almost everyone. Uh, you know, it's it's the system that all of the occult sciences operate on. It's the organizational blueprint for astrology and mythology and alchemy and taro and you know, and it's just how the system works, and it's fascinating and it does not vary. You know, every occult science seems to fit into this in a most amazing way.
Yeah, that's just like seven kind of shows you how everything can be matched onto onto that. Miguel, what is your thoughts on.
On the Kabbala?
Like, have you ever heard that that whole theory with forty year you should wait till you're in your forties and that you know to shake and like you know, basically drive you crazy.
You've heard those theories, dude?
No?
Yeah, yeah, I mean again, it's there's no guarantees. And like the shaman going into the underworld, which is what any mystic or terror reader does, you are going down into the spirit world and it's not a safe place. It's a dangerous place. You have to be centered, you have to be prepared, you have to Yeah, you have to know the risk you're taking. So and of course the Kabbala, there are many types of Kabbala, so that's hard. The Zohar is of course a monster book to even
get into. I know Elvis gave it a crack. I think Larry Geller was the one who probably you know, who had some experience and helped him and saw it. His attitude was just code. That was Elvis's way of seeing things.
You know.
It's if I find the code in astrology and numerology and all this, I can break the code of reality and get closer to God, which was his centering or what he wanted. So I think it's a good way to approach things. But yeah, it's you never know, You just never know. It's a risky.
Is you know? That's a good question, a good point to make, Julie.
And you don't want to ask you this, I guess for yourself and from doing this, you know, Taro or I guess you know, being into the occult and mysticism whatever we want to call it, would you say for yourself? I mean, you have to keep your own house in order, or you're no good to anybody.
Yeah, absolutely, you know. And you know I warned people a lot about just getting guidance or advice from any spiritual well any person. I mean, would you go to in aunt if they didn't have their finances in order?
Right?
Like that's crazy, you know, and you want to if you're seeking. I know so many people who are going to be a life coach and I'm like really knowing that they can't get relationships, you know, successfully managed, and they maybe have money problems and that this problem and that problem. I mean, you just it's amazing how many people hang up a shingle that don't have their house in order. And so I never want to be a hypocrite. You know, I am not perfect, not by a long stretch,
but I'm doing my best should be a person. And yeah, and it is something that you you know, how can someone teach or guide when they're not on that pass already? I don't think it's possible.
You know what about I do the eaching. The terror is not my thing, and I like the eaching because it tends to be pretty slaps you in the face and will scold you if you try to play around with it. So it's not easy for my ego to try to game the eaching, because that's what egos does. And my wife, like you, has been doing terra for like thirty years. She's a devout Catholic and she doesn't even rationalize. It's just something it called her and that's
just the way it is. But she's really good at terror and she always says she works at its simple. She says, every client knows the answer deep within them. They know everything. They are part of God like I am, so they know. We all know what our problems are. We just it's a matter of face. We all have the ability to look behind the veil. So her job is to sort of teach them that, you know, the answers. I'm just here guiding you.
Yeah, you know. My husband used to sit in my tend the Renaissance Fair when I did the Saint Lonis Renaissance Fair way back, and he used to eavesdrop sometimes in my readings and he would say, you're not telling them anything they don't already know. And I said, right, they needed they needed to hear it, they needed to be validated, They needed, you know, somebody to see it. And then they go, oh right, yes, of course, and and that's it's just bringing it to their full consciousness.
Yeah, the answers are always in us.
I was thinking that there may be kind of a twofold reasoning for the forty idea. I heard recently that young wouldn't even accept people if they weren't over forty because he just found them uninteresting. So then maybe there's
one reason that we just don't know so much. But the Bible kind of infers all these forty days and forty year initiation processes, if you will, right to where there's there's something about being able to handle yourself in the world when you go through either a forty day or forty year cycle.
I will say for my kids, they have no interest.
In any of my stuff, Like they're like, yeah, you're boring cheese the channel, but they're all young, yeah.
Not young young. Like almost getting.
Back to Sylvia Plath and Ted Hughes were both under forty when they began their journey into kabbala as as I have shown. And Sylvia of course died when she was thirty. And you know that the punishment, according to Cobblists is you know, first of all, you're supposed to be over forty and you're a man, and the punishment
is supposedly madness. And I find that very interesting given you know, what happened to Plath, And some might say Hughes went a little mad too, in his way differently mad, but but you know, he had his demons, especially after Plath died, which was part of the story of my Occult Sylvia Plath book. But yeah, that whole Kabala facet is pretty interesting. Just you know, if you believe that there's a punishment for being in I don't. I don't know, Like I said, I don't believe that stuff can touch
me on love and light and positivity here. But but that's going into deep in too dark.
Yeah, I like the When Kabbala originally started, it was a lot closer to sort of nas. It was very dualistic. It was all about demons versus the light powers and Samuel and Lilith, and it was hardcore stuff, and I always liked, you know, the more punk rock religions, which that's how they start, I think, even Buddhism or sober. Then then it sort of as it grew and it developed, it started moving out and making it more palatable, and then you know, you get to the new age Madonna stuff,
which is like, oh my god. But obviously Kabbala had to go underground for a while because of a Shabbatai zev which you know, humiliated an entire religion. This guy who was just yeah, he was Jim Morrison in the Elvis of his time. He was just without a control mystic who had had millions of people thinking he was the Messiah. So it's, uh, yeah, he's a it's a it's powerful stuff, but hey, anything else is average.
As they say, it's funny that you mentioned him.
Even Blovotsky say that he like used the most like screwed up version of perverted version of the Kabbala.
Well, it's all, you know, how it is with the related it's interpretations. You know, he started interpretating the tal mood and the Torah and you know, the Messiah must go into darkness to rescue the sparks. And he was like, oh, does that mean I need to drink and have sex with other girls? You know what I mean?
Like, well, I guess you could say that, but that's not what we rabbis do. And he was like, oh no, I'm in I'm in, you know, the redemption by sin like Crowley and some of the Gnostics used to say, so not my bag.
I'm sorry, you know, but you could see it happening.
So Jesus, one woman's enough Jesus Christ.
Uh, Juliet, is there anything about the book that you would really like to I guess maybe talk about a cover before we get the wrapping it up soon, maybe, or anything important that you would like to touch on. No, might be having a delay again, yes, yes, sorry, that might have been a delay again.
I apologie. Oh yeah, I was asking you about the book.
All right, I'm sorry. What what about the book?
Yeah, if there was anything about the book that you might have wanted to, uh maybe mention to talk about, to bring up before we start to wrap it up.
Yeah, yeah, I'll just say that. I also recorded it on audio book, so for those who aren't readers of paper books anymore, I recorded it in my own voice. That was important to me. I wanted to read my own work, and and uh and it took a little bit of acting, you know, because uh, it's you don't just read something flat when you when you record an audiobook. But but I had fun with it. And so so you can get it on audible or any of the audiobook sites as well as you know, just buying buying
a paper copy of it. And I've had a lot of new clients from my book. You know, they've read my book and then they wanted to get readings from me in person. And some of them have had lessons from me online, you know, as they've read my book and and they're like, Okay, tell me how you would do the spread, and you know, and we go over things and and I'm happy to do that with people as well.
Oh nice, that's awesome.
Uh, you know, maybe one one more question and then uh, and then if anybody else has a question that you can go and then we'll wrap it up.
Uh.
And I have to put too much pressure on you, but like maybe if you could, like I'm trying to think of like an easy way to wear this, is there maybe one card from the major icona that you noticed throughout doing this book that maybe you could touch on and like how you sort it, like what it meant, like the meaning of it to you throughout this book, Like maybe like the Tower the Lovers or something, you know, whichever whichever won.
But because I have a story for each card. You know, there isn't like one dominating card, you know, there's there's one dominating card for each story. Yeah, but not throughout the book, you know. You know, I could say my favorite major Arconic card, and that would be Strengths. It's this, this beautiful woman, and she tames the beast. You know, she tames the lion. It's supposed to be the nemean lion,
herculess lion. And and and that Lyon almost killed them, you know, but but but she she triumphs not with brutality but with love and gentleness and her character. And uh. And I always tell my clients that's them when when that card shows up. And sometimes when strength is nurse, I say, you may be doubting your own strength. You may be very very tested, but nobody gets a strength hard who isn't strong enough, you know. So so that's one of my favorite cards.
Very good, very good. Thank you, Ethan, Heidi and Miguel. Did you have anything that you wanted to ask before we wrap it up?
Just thank you, thank you for coming on.
Yeah, thank you so much. That was very insightful. And I love the idea of soft strength that you just kind of put forth.
Yeah, I just want to end. So how do you think, uh.
From having been on your show?
Yeah, yeah, but how do you think? Do you think Silvia is being served? You think your book is slowly making progress? Or how has it been received?
I do you know interesting? When I went to London last year, I had two standing only events in London, and boy, that is my city. Like you know, the Londoners their their emmesticism, their readers, and they love Plath. So it's like the perfect combination of energies. So I can't wait to go back, and I'm talking to one of those bookstore owners about that just as soon as I can. But but you know, the book is selling steadily and it seems to have I really think more
of an international appeal than a national appeal. It's doing okay here nationally, but it's in Britain and Austria and New Zealand and you know, Netherlands, that's where people are buying it, which I find very interesting.
Yeah, that is very interesting.
I just think Americans are not readers anymore, you know, and which is really a sad thing to say, but seems to be true. I know a lot of people who tell me they don't read almost proudly. You know, it's just how it is.
That and I will say as much as and you know what I think it is maybe because of the communities where around, we tend to think that there is a lot of people open to this. But my belief, I still don't think the United States is as open to the occult as some other countries are. You know, that stuff is kind of just almost like play day, So that can maybe have something to do with it too.
I actually believe it in that, Yeah, which.
I still visibly see shock in people's faces if I merely say the word and whatever context one might imagine, if I say o cult, they it's just kind of veer back.
Yeah, although the word doesn't even make sense anymore. And I know, ye like the word pagan or something like, what does it even mean anymore? And there's nothing that's occulted and paganism used to be a derogatory term for non Christians. What's a pagan is an African animist and a Buddhist a pagan. So sometimes, yeah, I think our
language is also failing. Is that's why you know, people like Yung or Crowley or so many others are like, we need new words, new languages to open up our consciousness, but we're still, you know, we're still We're still hanging on to these words. That's why the publisher called it the occult Sylvia Plath and the occult Elvis because that's what works still. But the word doesn't work.
It works with the people who are looking.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah exactly.
But thank you all for coming on real quick. Before we wrap it up, Miguel, remind everybody where they can find your amazing show, please and all you work.
Yeah right now, just go to Miguel Connor dot com. And it's kind of a which way Western Man. You can go to the Occult Elvis way am I substack, or you can go to I'm Bignostic Radio for all the no stick hereses podcasts and all that stuff. So that's where you should go.
Awesome, great stuff, And thank you so much for jumping on. I really appreciate that. That's awesome. And uh, Heidi, please let everybody know where they can find you.
I am Heidi love of the Unfiltered Rice Podcast. Everywhere podcasts are served. I do have my own website, Unfiltered ricepodcast dot com and you guys can catch me there.
Thank you everyone that was here today, Thank you, thank you, and Ethan.
In the go please, thank you so much for involving me in this great conversation.
You guys.
I love hearing your insights. And I'm on the usual social media and so forth. And Ken, I just dropped an article about the circumpunked on a cult research institute, so check that out.
Ethan's going to be on a bide at the beginning of June. He's going to talk about Taoist themes and Rocky Horror Picture Show.
Awesome. I was like, I had no idea it was intinet.
Actually no, no, we'll have fun. We'll have fun.
That's right, that's great.
And Julia, please let everybody know where they can find you in and let them know about all the books.
That you have.
Yeah, well I have five books altogether, but but my two latest are Tarot Life Lessons that we talked about and books on Amazon. Just Julia, Gordon Bramer or uh and uh. And I'm on all the social networks on Instagram and say book big Bramer for the Yeah, love to connect.
Awesome. Yeah, I think you broke up a lot on that.
But yes, you have the Occult Sylvia Plath, you have the Taro Life Lessons and you can find her on Instagram and Twitter. I will have I'll put all those links in the bottom. If they're not there now, I know I do have your website at least. Julia, thank you so much for coming on. It was a great talk. Like last time, about to have you on again in the future for you know whatever.
Um.
Yeah, and we appreciate it. And again, thank you everybody in the chat. That's what's up. That's why I went live. It was great to see you all there and I appreciate it.
Thank you. Donald.
Like I said, I just sent you out stickers today and we have to send you like another box. I appreciate that. Super chat. Yeah, and until the next one, everybody be well later