You see, something's going to happen.
What's going to happen?
He take what help?
Welcome to the Occult Rejects. This episode, I got a couple of rejects with me, and we got a new guest on, somebody that had reached out to me and was actually a fan of the show. So, I mean, what could be even better than that? Buddy hit me up at the topic that I know zero about, so I'm very excited to have him on, and I got Gin with me to help me out since I don't know much, and we got Mad here as well to
drop some of his knowledge. Before we introduce uh Master Gong Swan, we will introduce Jin in Mad first, Jin, my man, please let everybody know what is up with you?
What's the boss? Mister ninety three? Thank you you? Uh lauscher konk sure, Fasher, I'm not sure. We'll find out in a few minutes, I guess, and maybe explain like what I'd even said, and I even told Nick I'd never speak Mandarin on air. But anyways, there you go. There's a you know, fresh Jine lore. But anyways, you can follow me at Wukan Reborn.
W uk O and g reborn. My show is called Threshold Saints.
You can find an Apple, Spotify, of course, the gray lodgethtruegray Lodge dot com, t r ve, gray Lodge dot com, and YouTube like and subscribe. Matt is our webmaster and are my co host and along with four other boys. So we have a lot of fun doing speculative call Chakra, speculative Narcissism, and speculative Cabala every Friday Night Live. So if you're interested in that, check it out. Thank you
guys so much. And I have an episode with Gregory Peters dropping today on New Way on Contra with Solar.
Thank you very nice. Well, thank you very much for joining us. You know I was appreciate it. And uh we got Matt, what is going on? You're back on again. I always love having you here. Thank you very much. Oh I think you're still muted there, sir, Sorry about that.
Thank you good.
Yeah, I'd love to be here as well. Always fun.
Thanks all for calling me again, and we'll definitely have a lot of fun today with dalism, which I really enjoy and obviously I always see connections with Cabala as well.
So I'm at Mora.
You can find me on many social media's always at more nineteen that's x, Twitter means the same YouTube, Instagram, TikTok can name it. And also my website that's Kabala dot com k A A B A l a h dot com. You can see what I do there sometimes services doing them more frequently nowadays, and also a lot of apps which some new stuff coming on, so make sure to follow there.
And yeah, let's go today.
Awesome. Thank you very much, very much, Matt, and again I appreciate you making it. And finally to the guest himself, massagong Swan, thank you again for reaching out. Like I said, unfortunately, I don't know what kind of hell might I would be. I don't know much about Taoism. Crawley even got into it, but it is something I am not hip too. So please let everybody know what your deal is where they can find your stuff, and I guess we'll get into it after that.
So yes, thank you very much Nick for having me on. I am a Taoist disciple and a master of the maus On set, and in Mausan style Taoism, we're known for drawing talismans. In the West, you would call it sigils. Like so something like this for example, Oh okay, and yeah, and also in this a bit more later on. And you can find me online at Master Gonson Taoism on YouTube. And I started my own lineage of Taoism called The Sweet Divine Tow and it's at Sweet Divine Tow dot com.
Very nice, thank you, sir. I know we spoke a little bit prior you did kind of. I guess you said you grew up in Taoism, so I guess asking you, like what got you into this? But yeah, I mean I don't know if you want to give it a little bit of background about, like, you know, how you got into the Taoism, like what I guess experiences you have and what you've studied.
Yeah, certainly, Well I did grow up in Taoism, but I didn't really. I wasn't serious about practicing until I was in my early thirties when I had a supernatural experience. I was just briefly, I was visiting my friend in a rural part of Cambodia, and those I need to set up the background at those places there, it's really rural. It's like dirt, dusty roads, no street lights after dark. So if you find yourself without a flashlight at night,
then you're flat out of luck. It's completely pure black, complete darkness. Yeah, it's extremely creepy and and the thing is it's a very haunted place that I found myself in. I was visiting a friend and the history of Cambodia was at during the reign of the Kamai Rouge. Like that's like polepot era and that nineteen seventies, lots of people were killed. Yeah. Yeah, So he was telling me, you know, when you come, you know, expect to experience
some creepy things. You never know what you'll see, because lots of people were actually fifty years ago, they were killed and then they were not given a proper burial. Their bodies were haphazardly thrown into the ditch right across the street from my house. So I was like, Okay, I didn't know what to expect. I thought he was
half joking, but he wasn't. But he wasn't. And instead anyway, so people keep dogs here because it's not actually to scare off thieves and robbers, because it's a small time. Everyone knows everyone else. There's only so much you can get away with. But it's actually to keep a watch out for supernatural entities. So anyway, I was at late at night, around eleven. I was in my room just working, and I noticed that the dog was barking like crazy.
So I went outside and then I took my flashlight and I saw that the dog was barking at someone walking just past the gate. So I was thinking, Okay, that's no big deal, because dark soon bark at people that they they know, they only bark at strangers, right, So then at twelve midnight, I heard the dark bark again like crazy. I'm thinking, well, maybe it's just another stranger, but I'm curious because who would walk past the gate
this late at night. So I go and then I shine my flashlight and there by the way, that's where I tried my flashlights. By the way, I took my flashlight and showing it onto something, and then I saw the dog was barking at some and this entity was standing right between. It was the neighbor's gate actually, so neighbor's fence. So imagine like you know here right, so I'm on the balcony, it's staring down the neighbor's fences this way, and then this entity was standing between the
neighbor's fence and a tractor. Now that's a very weird place for a person to stand, a very awkward place to stand, and who would do that at midnight? So anyway, and then then I show my flashlight on it, and I'm thinking, well, is this a person? Like what was he doing?
Right?
And I noticed his upper body is completely covered in blue. His lower body he's bringing some sort of white cloth. So blue cloth upper body, white cloth, ower body. So his face was covered up, and I could see like the the holes of where like you know, the human eyes and the nostrils and the mount would be. And I'm thinking this is either a scarecrow or a malmannequin
or something I've never seen before. But what an awkward place to stand at midnight when the dogs noticed it, And now I realized why it appeared at midnight, because according to Taoism, that's called the hour of the Seed. It's called in Mandarin the hour of the seed, and it's the most yin right, yin yang. That's probably the most famous concept that the West knows about in terms of Taoism. It's the most in time of the entire cycle.
So there we are, and then I show my light on A three once because I thought, Okay, maybe my eyes are playing tricks on me. Nope. I turn off the light and I'm thinking, okay, maybe i'm I'm just seeing things. I turn all my flash again and it's still there. I think, okay, Well, I don't drink, I don't smoke, I don't do drugs. I am completely sober. It's too early for me to be sleeping, because I don't sleep till two or three am. It's too early for me to be dreaming. So this is real. So
I do the same thing again. I turn off the flashlight. I shine it back on the thing again. It's still there. And that's when I began to feel a bit creeped out, like I know, I'm not hallucinating, that's I don't know what the hell that is. But maybe I should leave well enough alone and take my friend's advice, because he told me, you'll say something, and when you do, don't interfere, don't do anything, just go back to your room. So I did. But but honestly, it didn't feel like it
didn't feel like it cared about me. It didn't move or anything. It felt like I was bothering it by shining my flashlight on him. Because when you're out there in the middle of the night by yourself, if you're a human, if someone shines a flashlight on you, wouldn't you turn your head to look to see who the hell is doing that? Right? So who is that? Calm? Right? Like, I don't I don't think it was human. Whatever it was, it was my first encounter with something supernatural, and I'm like, Okay,
I'm going to turn a Taoism. I'm going to become ordained to figure out what the hell that was. I'm exaggerating a bit there, but it's incited, instigated my my interest into things that are beyond our earthly senses, beyond our five senses, things that exist but we cannot see or hear.
So I I was kind of going to ask a question, and I guess you kind of answered it already, Like so, I guess this experience like somehow Taoism like rang true to you to explore becaues gotcha.
Yeah, because I was already in Asia, and and I was exposed a bit to Buddhist beliefs as well, and because Cambodia is a very Buddhist country, but there's huge pockets of Chinese Cambodians, and I dis gravitated back towards Taoism because it's what I'm most familiar with.
Yeah, I get that. Uh, Jenna, Matt, did you have anything you wanted to ask or say?
Well, I have I have got a couple questions, but I'll start with this.
Master Gong set Gong stn Sorry, I'm apologe. Would you explain like just some of the cosmology, just generally for people who are like totally unfamiliar with Taoism, Like what is what does the heavenly hierarchy or like or is it ghosts or is it like what are the nature
of spirits that we're talking about? And also like what is the primary focus Indaoism in terms of like is it sociological like with Christianity, where you're trying to, you know, sort of escape the worldly system or is it more cabalistic where you're escaping like the whole conceptual framework of reality that kind of stuff.
That's that's a great question. Well, to start off the basics is I would consider Taoism to be the Paganism or the Wicca of the East, because I see a lot of parallels about living in harmony with nature, about the guardians of the four directions, which we have in Taoism as well. It's it's very much I would say it's a chaos magic of the East. Oh wow, yeah, and uh well, I think a lot of people are familiar with this. I have a lot of props to show people. But this is a what we call a
tides e two. It's called yanyang symbol ties two in Mandarin. And these are the trigrams they represent the just the different. Well, this is Tien and this is Quinn, and it means like the divine yang or the sky. So the divine yin, which is the earth? Right, So I started off as observation. Actually we're observing, hey, why does the sun set every night? And why does it like come back up again in
the morning. Right, So it's stuff like and through the observation, so kind of like science, where through this observation we discover certain truths about the natural world, for example, and that's where you come up with the twelve rules of a yin and yang. Right. For example, a great great yin leaves a little yang. And I'll give you an example of how that is. So it's always starknest before dawn. Right,
that's the western sing around what for three or four am? Right, that is quite yin because it's really dark at that time, right, But it becomes a little yang because an hour later, hey it's sunrise. We can see daybreak. Right. So it's these these rules that that are a result of the observation of nature. So I started off very much about nature. Anything else you want to And yes, and I believe someone, I mean I saw it called oh yeah, yeah, yes
right right, the mini world theory. There are many other infinite number of realms. The official in the official the the what's the working for the official stance is that there are nine heavens, go ten and it's reflected in all the incantations we have. For example, when you are offering incense, for example, grab some incense here. When you're offering incense, you're spilled to recite the offering incense incantation,
and the very end of that incantation is jind. It means that we want the incense to take our energy and our prayers to the nine heavens. Right, So I would say it is there's the physical realm, which is the what we call the Rincien, right, and that extends all the other planets like Mars, Mercury and all that, right, and then we have the different planes. So it's actually similar to some Western New Wage thought on the astral planes. There is an equivalent of astroprojection in Taoism as well.
Oh wow, yeah, I noticed, because I just I studied a bit of Western Taoism. I've been studying a little bit because I noticed there's lots of equivalence between tawas an Eastern and Western occult very like similar. For example, the adage so was it as above so below right, that's very like Wi Cup, but that's also Taoist.
Oh, it's just like, well, honestly, what you were explaining before heavens in the earth, I mean, I was above.
Rh exactly right. Yeah. So somehow the ancients they didn't actually communicate, they couldn't because of the vast distances, but they all came to this essentially similar conclusions. They drew to similar conclusions just from observation.
One question, one question, I just want to ask real quick, and I not to like spur off on this, but I don't know if you're into it or not. But maybe you said you were actually a fan of the channel. Have you ever noticed any stuff where you're like, oh, this sounds like Kabbala in some ways, Like do you ever see influences or ties you think to Kabbala and what you're into.
Yes, that's a great question. I studied a little of the Kabbala too, and they have the tree of life for example in the Kabbala, right, the crown the uh. I don't speak Hebrew because so I don't remember, but the official name is, but I remember, like, yeah, the English translations, right, and there is right, because we have the different realms of existence, right, we have the the
physical realm being non physical. Right, we have the astral planes lower astral, all the way up to what mental, causal, budic, divine. And that's yeah, exactly, Yeah, that's the great comment. Everything comes back to number nine. Yeah, the nine Magic squirts and Taoism, for example, the hood to the river of the river map. It's also astrology. At the same time, the whole brand of Taoism devoted to astrology and predicting our destiny just based on our birth, our time date
to year, month of birth. It's called bots of the Eight or the four Pillars. Eight characters, four pillars.
Did you just say nine uh militaries squares? Did you say something like that?
Uh, it's it's actually called the it's called the magic square, the Foe magic Square. There are nine squares. Yeah, there are nine squares. A picture of that.
Yeah, I mean you see stuff like that in Agrippa, and.
Like you, they all came to the same similar conclusion. So something is up there. Something must have happened there, like there's no way they were reading letters to one another. So I'm not sure how they influence each other. But it's a long even up from the on the Silk Road. It's a long way from China to Europe.
Well I can make an apologies, Yeah, just.
One click, isn't it on Taoism?
Also that they have this, I don't remember if it's on the Talaging or where is it they have it? Like from the Taul came the the Yang, from the Yang king, the Ying, and then from all the things something like that.
Yes, yes, yes, absolutely, I don't I love that one there. I love that picture.
If you can, if you can recite it, because because like in Kabala, it's going to be more or less the same, the same idea, you.
Know, and then everything. Yeah, the primordial chaos, the wood, he gave rise to the Taisi from one yet gives us to the two, two to three and three king ten thousand things. Yeah, that you're right, that's exactly from the town that see and that is written by someone called Lauds. It means the old one. Actually, he didn't actually found Taoism, but he he's very much revered and honored in the faith.
I was just going to say, Matt is really good at the Bakuah and like even yeah, even better than me at.
The sort of like the eight triagrams.
He kind of gets it, like he kind of Matt has mapped it to Kabala through his system. So I just want to say, so he's quite good at it. But I wanted to follow up on what you said about Lolzza because I think a lot of people misunderstand
like that point. Like you know, every there are different kinds of Daoists, as you said, and there are different sort of cosmologies that are both more esoteric cosmology exists, but then also like a quote unquote folk cosmology exists, where they might put a Buddha or they might put jade emperor, or they might put guan y In depending on like your level of I guess knowledge in the esoterica.
So can you just explain, like what what happens when like a person who's never experienced Daoism walks into a Taoist temple, Like what should they expect to see?
What should they like take note of?
And like what spirits are especially for your school or your sect or for the sec that you trained in, Which which are the most important?
And why?
Great great question? Well in China, because they try to harmonize religions. So like when Buddhism arrived in China, it competed with Taoism, uh, and then the authorities had a policy called syncretism. So they wanted to harmonize religions or else it will be in conflict and you know, and then that will lead to like you know, the wars of religions in Europe, right, I mean Protestants versus Catholics.
But so you might see like Guanyin, but Guanyin is actually like a Buddhisatta and is Buddhist, but somehow she made it into the pantheon. But we have an equivalent in Taoism called Shansenrin, and it's just someone similar. So someone who a woman who accumulated great merit and then managed to become an immortal what we call a CN
after death, which is actually the goal of Taoism. Actually, the goal of Taoism is to break the cycle of reincarnation become an immortal ourselves so we don't have to come back and suffer again, because both in general, both Taoists and Buddhists view this earthly realm as not good as a place of suffering in general, not everyone.
But is it in Taoism that there is like eight immortals?
Oh, you're right, yeah, yes, Actually there's a huge pantheon. There's more than eight. There's like thousands of them actually, But the one that you're you're mentioning, I think you may have seen a movie about them, you may have heard them. But there are eight immortals that are famous because of what they did, but they all come from different eras of Chinese history. Actually they didn't all live around the same time. But yes, I'm very press that
you know about the Basi and the Eight Immortals. Yeah, there's actually a comedy movie Hong Kong Cinema. There's a comedy about them actually. But anyway, so to get back to Wukong's question, Uh, I first glanced, it might seem similar actually when you enter a Taoist temple, similar as into a Buddhist temple. But the differences are that are that, Uh, the Taoism is uniquely Chinese and the liturgy is just in Chinese. So if you can read and write Chinese like,
you don't need to learn a different language. Right. For example, if you want to read the Bible was originally written it wasn't It wasn't it Aramaic that Jesus spoke right, written Hebrew, and that was translating the Greek Greek to Latin and Latin to English. Right, So that's a lot
of translations. A lot could be lost in translation, but in Taoos the meaning has been retained and nothing has lost was lost because of because it's the same uh, the same language, and of course Buddhism is in Sanskrit. Now to answer Howard's question here, what's the main difference
between Taoism and Daoism. The answer is nothing. It's just written differently because of the romanization of the Chinese language into English before it was called Taoism, but it's technically supposed to be Daoism because of what you call hanya pinion. So I just pronounced it Taoism because it's what people are most familiar with, but it's there's no difference. It's the same thing.
I thought I was fucking that all up. I was like, Wow, I've been mispronouncing it this whole time.
Yeah, I have a question because you mentioned the bald zi, which is I guess what people in West would call it? The astrology, right if I'm not mistaken, Yes, But also I'll say most likely people who only know it by their like but then we would associate it as the
year's time. But I'm pretty sure much more complex than that, Like anytime i'd try to search something about it, there's like a million other things obviously, and I'd like to understand from you, like how do you if you do use it in your practice in some way, because for example, in Western magic, you can use a shorge for a
lot of things. You can use it to plan some ritual or to like consecrate like we were talking about the schedules, you can make some schitus or some talis months based on the startge thing or you can you know, like plan ahead, you can do a lot of stuff, or like read someone, you can do any things. So I'm interested to understand from your point of view, if maybe in your school or from what you know about tourism, how they how they use this with all this two great question.
It's around us. It's about the same. We use it just as two because there are actually five different applications of Taoism, and the spots of the astrology is a part of what we call destiny studies. It's called a meaning share and it's like it's not set in stone, but like if you calculate someone's spots, that you can figure out what their life is likely to be if they continue to be on the same path and make like the same decisions. Right, But we have this in
order to get a glimpse into the future. And it's kind of like a warning, right if you don't change, if you're going to be like this, and this is what your future will likely be like. So yes, we use it too for similar purposes.
Nice, And they're like, is it two? Because for example, with astrology, in Western astrology.
A lot of people will obviously then only know their sun sign and then people will make a lot of associations from that, but it's not like you should then in the sun Australogy, it's not exactly like that. There's a lot of other things in the sun is like just a small part of it. So I guess the same happens with when someone just knows their year time from from Balsa. Would you, like, I don't know if if it makes sense here too, just like maybe give
a small clarification of how is it? Uh, how's it formed? Because for something in astrology have all these signs and then you have houses and so on. But as far as I know it about you have the have like pillars.
Right right, well, we have we have it. What we have we need to know the exact like hour and minutes, day dates, month and year of someone's birth right and then that's pared with the the what we call the the ten trying to translate this into English, ten heavenly stems and the twelfth earthly No no, I know, I got that mixed up ten heavenly branches and the twelfth earthly pillars. And I'll give you example of what it is.
Actually it's actually all here. Uh, it's written in Chinese but like, because I mentioned, I have this thing here and so that's the taisy two or the Unian symbol, right, the trigrams and here on the outer part is actually the old Chinese calendar. So stuff like for example, you know le don is like the establishment of winter soushre little snow, just based on observations of China anyway, because I know that in other countries in the tropical areas, right,
they don't have snow, right, and they're humid all year around. Right. But yeah, so then that's paired with stuff like this what we call I mentioned actually something called that this, right, and that's the ancient Chinese way of telling time. This is the hour of the seed and that's around eleven pm to one am, and that's the most in time of night. And yeah, so that's paired with the so someone's birth would be paired with the heavenly stems and
the earthly ranches and uh. And then and then we look at compatibility, and that also has you have to pair that with the twelve phases. I think that's a better translation. Some people call it elements, but it's not true because these there are phases because like water, earth and all that they turn into each other. Right, so there's a yeah, but that's similar to in the Western occult.
Right you have like air, you know, water, fire? Yeah, yeah, exactly, yeah, and then we see and it's all about balance and we see if there's conflict or if there's balance, right, if someone has too much fire or not enough water, right, and that could lead to certain events.
Very nice.
And do you, personally or yours who has any like daily practice, like something that you you kind.
Of want to do daily.
Maybe okay if you miss a day or whatever, but like you want to do daily, you should probably do daily.
Oh great question. I love that question. Yes I do. I like to practice the light of the Golden I mean sorry, what is it called the Sutra of the Golden Light? Uh? And for those of you familiar with Buddhism you may have heard of that. It's the light from technically from the sun. And this is what it looks like in talisman form. I'll explain. Here is the sigil of the Golden light, and this is this. Individually they have meaning, but put together this has no meaning.
So even for someone who can reach Chinese but is not Taois, they don't know what it means this is this refers directly to the Zuwako, meaning the purple Palace of the Jade Emperor in the heavens. So, and that's that's where the golden light comes from. So I practiced this because it's a part of cultivation what we call that. You may have heard of, Teak, and it helps for me to cultivate not just my own energy, but also
also it actually protects the gains. Like for example, if you see any or encounter any evil entities, you just recite the what we call the suit of the Golden Light and then you mentally draw this in the air or like with your fingers, and that's that's gonna scare them off, and it'll make you calm down as well make you feel better too.
That was a great question, Matt. I have a quick follow up.
So, gestural magic is really associated with Daoism, especially in the West, and because of like all the famous movies like I love the Mister Vampire series. Personally, I love Chinese like all Hong Kong cinema. Every anyone who grows up in the West like that is Chinese descent. They love They pretty much love Hong Kong movies. So that's a given.
Yeah.
But then also the when you showed the Fulu charm or the seal charm, the you're right that I cannot read the characters, even though anominally I can read Chinese, but there is one character that I do recognize, so it's lightning late. So this is a really important idea in Daoism that like the descent of the lation, Like can you explain a little bit about the master dongsn.
Yeah, certainly there's something called thunder magic in Taoism where you try to try to absorb the young energy and there's a certain practice that that's well, that you cultivate it every day. But but you're right about that, Like this here, this is the root radical. It means rain. So the fact that we have rain here means that in early ancient times, Taoism was actually associated with shamanism because the shamans which tried to summon rain and the drought.
So that's why we have uh this character here, you're meaning rain, and of course, and that's very similar to lay meaning thunder because it's all weather phenomena. But we certainly need all the the rain because it's life affirming, it's life giving, right with a water, right, we would all die within a few few days moisture right, Yes, so that is exactly and that's a really good question too. Yeah, they're all sorts of different cultivation. In cultivation and Taoism,
an thunder magic is one of them. For sure. You're supposed to actually absorb the young energy because we want to be in a state of balance. We can't just have yin all the time. Right. In fact, if you die in a state or too much energy, you become what we call a gay Cian and it means an immortal. But you're a ghost and not in a good way. You're like stuck in a lope. Yeah, yeah, because that's too much un energy.
Yeah, residual haunting. That's turning into.
Yeah, you're becoming evil spirit like Grigis watch.
Oh that's a great movie. It's really scary. I find it pretty scary. But no, that's a really scary wild that's great. Yeah, it's it's excellent. Yeah, that was the everything they have twis priests battling hopping corpses called jens Uh And yeah, and I love mister Vampire too. It's very It sparks a lot of like curiosity uh, in Taoism, because that the priests in that movie was of the same sect as I am. Mouthsign and that's what we're known for. We're known for writing these sigils and battling
hopping corpses. I've never seen one myself, so you know, I'm not one of those you know, movie star Tawis priests. I'm just a humble practitioner and to teach people.
Uh jin, did you have any any other questions?
Oh?
Gesture magic, So how important is that to Taoism? And we like I know that Nick talks about this when he was in the Oto, like he would do the lesser managing pentagram the greater punishing pentagram, and.
They do a lot of hand gestures.
But like from where I like, my background is more chaos magic and then also grimoires. So for me, I didn't nobody was like, oh, you need to do this gesture, this gesture. It was kind of like free flow until I really got it to be a serious Buddhist like later and I learned how to do pujes for myself.
But just explain, like how important is that and.
What in what modes do you employ them?
Great question? Uh, these are called they're from the Sanskrit actter the word moudra, right, the gestures and uh, and that's that's what it's called. So we use them to empower and seal certain incantations. For example, I mentioned the sutra of of the Golden Light. This one here right, So whenever I practice I there are many murders you can actually do. For example, you can do two sword muders here and then and then just being chanting, or you can do this one here, uh and uh. So
it depends on which incantation that you're chanting. Like I chant that one I mentioned the Golden Light. I also chant the it's called seeing scenes and so meaning the purifying the heart or mind incantation. So this one is here like this right, and and just speak in to chant,
and I envisioned the sigitl. The sigil is important too, because when you're chanting, you have to be completely using your visualization skills and to imagine whatever sigil is associated with your incantation that has to go within your body to empower empower yourself. Yeah and uh yeah mudras right,
and so that this is like the purifying heart. And then if you purify your mouth and this is called there's something similar in the Kambala where you have to purify your It's called logos or I don't remember what it is. You guys are much more experts in Western occult than I am. But you have to clean your mouth before your incantations will be effective, right and then and then like the moodrip comes down here for the
purifying the mouth incantation. So yes, great question, uh mister Wukongjin, because and that that I believe it's I'm not sure if maybe one influenced the other, but I think how I may have gotten the mud thing from Buddhism. I'm not mistaken.
Well, yeah, Lasha, thank you very much for that. I appreciate that.
But I think that you're right in like there has been a lot of French scholarship on the sort of the transmission in the first and second century especially. But then also when you have like the mix, I know this ignites everyone in the chat. But if you say, like the Scythians, there was a there was a group
of mixed Scythians. So they weren't one hundred percent, but they were mixed, and they came into China and Amoga Vajra is the most famous with his flaming red hair, and anyways, he came in and so a lot of the Daoist magic, what Daois magic looks like now, and Buddhist magic as well was influenced directly in this kind
of syncretic time. So there's an idea that maybe the sigils either came from Daoism or came from Buddhism and they sort of enter married and they became like more of a spiritual technology like that is more universal in Central and East Asia.
Or vice versa, so I think.
And and also the mudras, so the mudra's definitely come from Buddhism, but I think that it's like a mutual adoption like different mythologies, like you were saying the sword mudra. So like obviously we do all the mudras and we visualize the bija so just very similar as the sigil, or we use the whole mantra, and some mantras can be written in Chinese, as I'm sure you know this. This is more for like people who who are unfamiliar, and sometimes they can be visualized also as deities, but
the deities themselves are actually the word. So and then this also links it to what you were saying about the logos and kabbola. So it all kind of there is a kind of interflow in a way that this all makes sense. And I just want to point out that you're totally correct about the having a clean mouth.
But this is not just kabbala.
This is also in contra we I'm sure as you know this, and especially in Chinese Mahayana Buddhism, there's a lot of dietary restrictions based on the lunar calendar.
Well, I also cannot.
Eat before I do mourning sona, so like we don't eat ragostic foods if we're doing certain parts of it, meaning like garlic, onions, chilis.
Like all that tumasaka and rajostic foods.
So yeah, there's a it's definitely the idea of like ritual purity is really important for us as well.
Yeah, that's very well said. Just to add on to that, because I have here, I have drawn what we call one of the sigils. So this is so we see I meaning the offering of the instance sigil for this. Now this part is Chinese, but this is not so I'm not even sure where the sigils come from, but you mentioned it could very well be if it's from Buddhism, maybe this is like Sanskript perhaps, or maybe it was influenced by sanscrit. But this is definitely not Chinese writing.
I know that's how you you're supposed to write the sigil, but I'm not sure where it came from.
This is my last thing, and then I'll let I I'll let Nak or Maco I apologize the There is actually a magical script that is specifically developed for writing magical language in Buddhism that they're talking that is called Sidam script. And so you can actually construct entire sutras so exoteric text like you could write a Bible in Cindam script. But because the cinem script has innately magical meaning and maybe preserved in and of itself, that it
can actually in part also a magical meaning. So even though it's a sutra, it can impart grimoire kind of knowledge as well. But maybe you don't the regular practitioner wouldn't necessarily know right away.
Oh that's so cool.
I have a question as well. So there seems to be a lot of things. I mean, when I think about like Chinese Terroriism or like or like mysticism or from the area, and there are a lot of things that I'm then I'm not necessarily sure if Taoism is going to be the root or but.
Certainly somehow connected. For example, thank.
Stuari with I'm butchering the word by the way, sorry about that, but so I know, for example, obviously then it gets drained on and even though when it comes to the West it gets even worse. Again, like with the same idea, people just knowing there about the year's time, thanks shut they would just think, oh, it's just about like putting this there and so, but there's a whole
other there's many other things behind it. But would you like, is there a set of practices or like teachings maybe that are connected necessarily to talk to Taoism or is it for example, fanctually is the thing that came afterwards after someone learned howism they kind of came up with it.
That's what I am a mask or is it a great part of the thing?
Great question, that's a part of what what it's called the Wuzoo meaning the five arts. So I mentioned destiny studies, that's one of them, right, is actually I'll let me put it this way. So bats remember the bots of the four pillars, eight characters. That's that's your astrology, right, that's the diagnosis. Fumsu would be the cure. Right, how do we live more in harmony with nature? Right? Should
I build my house next to a cemetery? Right? In Eastern culture it's a huge tabit, Like no Chinese person would want to live next to a cemetery. It may not be that might be a cultural thing, may not be the same in Western culture, but certain areas are not do not have good functry, and that could affect the health and the prosperity of all the inhabitants of that house. So yes, that is one of the five for the five arts that have been derived from Taoism.
Nice, So would you say, like then badi like being the first one, thanks for being the last one, and then what would be the ones in between?
Like the other three?
Oh? All right, there's also traditional Chinese medicine, So there's the right. There is because of course the destiny studies, right, And there's also because functually would actually be a part of like how best to how best to live more in harmony with nature? In order to be healthy and prosperous. And yes, and there's also and that would be a
part of like I would say, divination studies. And of course you've heard the zeene right around ye ching in the West, right, that's our form of divination as well. We used to well we're supposed to use yarrow sticks or your auro stalks, but you could use coins for
that as well. And the rest of them are Also there's another called siang meaning physical inspection, meaning that physiognomy, that's what it's called in the West, where we look at how bigger noses in order to see how much money you'll make at age thirty two for example, right. And also there's also one called mountain meaning sun, and that has to do with alchemy, immortality and like tigunga and all that and cultivation. Yeah, so those are the five nice thanks, Yeah, thank you.
I do know that you did say you had some stuff that you wanted to show. Besides, I don't know if you've got to show everything that you wanted to show, but could you maybe we start off with explaining your outfit.
Sure, sure, this is what I would wear during ordinary times. So in this respect, I'm more different from a Catholic priest, because I remember when I used to attend church, they would wear green during ordinary times when they celebrate masks,
but they would change to what was it. I don't remember, but it was a different color, like was it white or whatever it was to attend I mean to celebrate Christmas Mass or Eastern Mass, of course, Easter being the most important holiday in the Christian calendar because of the resurrection of Christ. And yeah, so this is what I wouldn't normally wear just on a regular day. I'm not affiliated with the temple anymore. I used to be in Hong Kong. That's where I learned my my my craft.
And this is a regular Taois hat called dom mao. And we have the of course of the taisi too, and the guinea and symbol and the trigrams and uh. And in order to practice Taoism, you actually need to have a lot of tools. You need to invest in some tools, but they're not that expensive, like, for example,
I have two ceremonial swords here right. And this Jen might be familiar with because if you remember from the Mister Vampire series, the Towers Priests played by Linsang Nin He had a This is called a coin sword, right, and it's actually made of ancient Chinese coins. This is just a reproquest, not actually real coins, but and it's in that shape and uh and another kind is peachwood.
And these two swords are meant to stop the chance of the hopping corpses from well, from eating you from yeah, and yes, and so there's this and this is given to me by my master, actually consecrated or otherwise to call that tai kwang or opening the light. I have this one too, with a special sigil here. And these are just ceremonial swords, but they are actually meant to protect you against supernatural entities as well. And you'll notice
that this is not sharp. It's not sharp because it's not a letter opener, and it's not meant to harm other people. It's not meant to hurt humans. It's meant to hurt ghosts, and ghosts are not physical, so it doesn't matter if it is sharp. My ghosts can't get hurt by this, but they can through the magical incantations
and the consecration. Yeah. So, so lots of things that we kind of need to invest in, but they're not really that expensive, you know, And this is of course the tellsman the sigil this paper.
Masters and I have a follow up for the sort. Yeah, I love that. This is my favorite part.
But how important is ghost both veneration and exorcism? Like I kind of know the answer to not necessarily your answer, but I kind of.
Have an idea of it.
But for people who don't know or aren't familiar, especially with the diaspora, how important it is to have someone who can sort of perform these rights of.
Mediation we'll say.
Between the spiritual world and the human world, especially because the importance of ghost worship in Chinese culture generally and just Southeast Asia.
Yeah. Sorry, go into that a little bit if you don't mind.
Oh, certainly. Yeah, that's a great question. So it's always better to have someone to know what they're doing, to mediate right to act as a medium. I mean, you wouldn't want to do surgery on yourself, right, It's always good to have someone who knows what they're doing.
Uh.
And about the ghost magic thing, some Taois practitioners love to work with ghosts because ghosts are I mean, you can pray to the Taois gods, right, and they're just divine manifestations of the taw. You can pray to them, but it takes a while for them to answer. But if you work with spirits, the results are almost instantaneous, and that's why a lot of people love to work with the spirits. For example, I used to live in Thailand and there are people who pray to someone called me.
I mean, you know this very well, yes, you know. Yeah, I saw the movie. Actually there's many movies based on that. I saw the comedy on Netflix. But yeah, they pray to her and and honestly, she came to me a dream when I was trying to figure out when I just started doing this, I try to figure out who should I work with, and she came to me a
dream and said, you can work with me. I didn't end up going down that path because although the results with ghosts are instantaneous, I think they are unpredictable sometimes and that's why I don't work with them. But certainly, like a lot of people, especially in the indigenous practices of Southeast Asia, they love to work to work with spirits.
Even in Taoism, we have a practice called the Walkway the Five Ghosts where we actually I don't have because I don't practice that sort of magic, so I don't have an example. But it's made from the same paper as a thousand paper, and it's you have like five dunny cutouts in the shape of ghosts and then you and then you find out which ghosts you want to work with. Actually, and I can get kind of a
chromatic and macomber. Actually you're supposed to go to like a graveyard at night and do a bunch of sermon, which is similar to Western occultism. I'm sure.
Is it on Taoism or is it a thank stray that they have like different schools, Like is it like red hat, black hats something like that.
Or yeah, I believe that's more of a functory. But there are many different schools in Taoism. We have we have like different branches kind of like you know, Orthodox Catholicism, Protestantism. We have that sung e Orthodox unity we have, and then we have another branch trends In, which is trends in it means complete reality and they do a lot of scriptural reading and so they reade it doubted seeing and unlike the Christian Bible, there's only like you know,
the old New Testament. In Taoism, there's over one thousand, five hundred books that are considered canon, like holy scriptures. I don't know them all and I have not certainly not read them all, but I actually do go over the main ones on my YouTube channel. I go over the Doubt, that's seeing the Huawu, seeing the Uh, the civilizing the Barbarian Sutra literally that's what it means, and
UH and the and the winds. But there's no way I can do you know all one thousand five hundred books in a lifetime.
Are they different types of books?
For example? I know, I don't know.
I think it's in like more of the Greek Kramatism Swan they have, or like in Vedic astrology or certain Vedic stuff as well they have kind of some books are like poems, and some others are like stories, and some others are like you know, like different kind.
Of types of books or scriptures. There work similarly.
Yes, yeah, there are, there are, because because there are, Like it's not all written by by launce. Laos is kind of considered the founder, although he didn't found. He just like wrote a few things down, but but he is very much venerated. But there are other practitioners who who But basically anyone who is considered like an asstted master, like can write a Taoist text and that would be considered canon. You may have heard of like the Bob,
who's the embracing simplicity. Uh, there are gmoirs like the Luban who I have a talisman actually about that, Actually about Luban. This is the equivalent of what is it? What's the famous? Like Gramaran is Agrippa. There's three are famous.
It was Agrippa is the most famous? Maybe the Keys of.
Solomon, right right, That's exactly what I was thinking of. Yeah, so this is like Luban is the equivalent of like the Keys of Solomon, the Chinese equivalent, tow was equivalent. Yeah, and then that's that is considered canon as well. And yeah, so there's just uh, there's too many books for for any priest to know in a lifetime, but there are some mean ones.
Great question, Matt. I have a follow up actually, because MAT's question was so good that we've discussed sometimes in our great lodge spaces the importance of what we call folks sutras or like the coot.
Or like yeast from the Marsh.
Or like there there are deep Taoist and Buddhists both kind of like a mixture folk religious framework that is in them and some sext do you consider those quote unquote sutras, So if you don't mind making a comment on that, and I'd appreciate that certainly.
Yeah, this is right on my alley. That's one of the four classics of Chinese literature. A lots of the marsh. It's also called was a band of something about brothers anyway, it's culture.
Well, men are brothers.
It has because organizations of it. Yeah, I just know it's culture in in in, in Mandarin. But but yes, those are you talking about, like specific sutras that are mentioned in in that those works of literature. That's great works of literature of course.
So of course in Journey to the West, the coz that that is a very important concept of the sutra being hidden within the actual novel itself. But then also some sex. I don't know for everybody that I know in Taiwan that there are some sex that actually and probably Hong Kong as well, maybe Singapore and the like that I asked believe that the actual cooz is a sutric text, or they at least associate it with being a heterodox part.
Of the greater canon. Right, right, that's a very good question.
Well, of the four great works of Chinese literature, I love Coot the most. It's the most like fantastical.
Right.
We have some of coen Is, you know Tisa R. B. In the seventy two transformations. We have the the tinguang Ku, the say I can't think of the English word, the thing over his head that titans if he disobeys his master.
Right, you usually call it a circlet.
There we go, thank you.
But it's not doesn't I think for English audience, I don't know if that totally makes sense, but that's what they usually translate.
So will you go, oh, all right, thank you. But anyway, but that I realized that that is actually an easy question because that's Buddhists. So I'm not actually too sure because I'm not Buddhists. But that might be considered canon in Buddhism because we do know that the author of that, the author of the of COT. I believe it's unknown. If I'm it's never been ascertained.
If I'm not mistaken, he has a kind of Taoist pseudonym or a Buddhist pseudonym that could be read as emptiness as well, like his name is emptiness.
But that's only one way.
Chinese obviously has so many ways to express similar or even the same thing, but in very different ways, using different characters in different words.
Right right, right, that's true, right, yeah, that's good. That is very Tawis and Buddhists, right because or disciple like Pixie is like wood sing or is it? I keep it mixing them up, and then you know Sandy is like wood sine. Yeah, but there is yeah, that emptiness part. Yes, I believe that if it is it could be canon if whoever wrote that has is said to have attained a certain level of cultivation of the town. But it depends on who the author is and how how much he has cultivated.
That was a great That was a great answer, Sorry, Mary.
Yeah it was.
It was very nice learning about a bunch of stuff. And I was curious to understand Also the purpose of the hat you're wearing, if it's like similar to maybe a kipa from the Jewish, like kind of protecting the protecting the head. So there's the symbol, is it? I remember the name right now, I know it in for cheese.
Is how we call.
Purchases like the the before heaven or something that, like the heaven from before or whatever.
Are you talking. It's the pre heaven and post heaven something that yeah, even right, I was just actually bringing about this to brush up because it's been a long time. It's like an introduct introduction to to Ta Taoism because those years ago when I learned about that. But essentially this one here, if you see the the three that ten right, the divine Yang, the skies here facing on top, this definitely pre heaven because post heaven is another one
at top. But anyway, this is supposed to be pure because pre heaven just means anything that existed before creation.
But once we come into existence, like there's like changes, right, So that's why they changed the even the position of the trigram, because here we are in these meatbags, in these bodies, and we're all slowly heading towards death, heading towards like as soon as you born complete yeah, like degeneration, right, and that's post that's post heaven, right, because we're subject to the whims of time and space, the laws, the whimsical laws. Maybe I should call them whimsicals. They're actually
pretty constant. But but these laws are not fair to to us in general, I think because you know, because who wants to get aches and pains as they get older? Right? Who wants to have deteriorating eyesight? Right? But but yes, but to ask your question, yes, this does protect the head. This is the holy symbol in Taoism, right, the yang symbol. Right, And I want to point out that, you know, we see a bit of the yin and the yang and and vice versa. Right, And that's because everyone has a
bit of everything in us. Right. I was born biologically a male. I do have some feminine traits, as does everyone else. And my sister was a tomboy growing up. Right, we all have like these traits in us, right, But they're all like part of the same thing, right, two sides of the same point. So yes, it protects my head, and it's supposed to be a sign of like a purity. It's a very holy symbol. Thank you.
That was a great question, Matt. I didn't even think of that, to be honest, So good job.
Niceyeah, thanks for thanks for answering us.
Was there a was there any other things that you had with you that you wanted to show on screen too. Let's put you on the spot on.
That's about it. I just want to make sure more and more stuff like this. People might find this interesting as well. This is.
This is Choo.
It says choose, and it means to promote your fortune and to get rid of the get rid of the evil choosey, I mean to get rid of evil actually and uh. And then we have the holy symbol here. And then we also have like you might be interested to see to know what this is. So here we have a phoenix. Here we have a dragon. Now these are actually very auspicious animals in both Chinese and Taoist culture.
In fact, this is one of the guardians of the of the directions, actually, because each direction has been assigned a guardian, just like in Wika, I had a I mean I still have a close friend who identifies as Wickan. He's a practitioner a Wika. There's something called the guardian of the watchtower tower of the west and of the east. Right, we have something similar. We have we have we have sifang singlo meaning I mean sorry, I mean don't found
silo meaning the green Dragon of the East. We have Sifang Vaihu, meaning the white tiger of the West, and these are like spirit animals that guard the directions. And you might be interested to know that it's all intricately type with Chinese culture because in Chinese culture, the dragon represents the Emperor of China and his empress is represented
by a phoenix. So again we have yin and yan, we have balance, and you'll see that the culture is all about balance because if you look at Chinese characters, you don't have to know what they mean, but there is a certain beauty about them, about these characters, and the reason is because of symmetry. It's balanced. Right, we all want balance in our lives. We don't want too much of anything, right, so anyway, so that's what this is. And this is just a way too. It's outside soaur
tim is just sumon wealth. Well I said, we don't want too much of anything, but maybe with the exception of money, no one would complain about having too much. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. We also have like these these are Taoist symbols as well. This is a hulu. It's a gore disused in taois magic actually too, well, one thing. It's used for us
to trap evil entities. Uh, this is a fan and I'm sure Jin knows all about it because, uh since he is a fan of coz uh Nilmo Wang, which is the of the the See, there's no such concept in the West where you are so close to someone you become like brothers and you undergo a ceremony to become a brother, but you're not actually related. But anyway, the Bull King is the brother or the sworn brother of the Monkey King of Somukong, and his wife is Tikongsu,
Princess iron Fan, and so she uses this too. You know one blow, I mean, you know, one action and it causes people to be blown like thousands of miles away.
It's a great story.
I want to say that, like, Princess Iron Fan is actually the first Chinese martial I'm not saying it because they are the daughter Nick, but I say, but Princess iron Fan is really interesting because it's actually the first martial arts movie ever made.
It's lost now there's only.
Like a clip that's a few seconds long, but it is was the first martial arts movie.
In nineteen forty one made in Shanghai, so very.
Important character and you can see it in a lot of Hong Kong movies, especially like sort of like these anti kind of tie Ti characters who have magic powers or psychic powers and they're kind of like nagging and yeah, that's kind of her archetype, I would say. But it's a very funny character and a lot of Cantonese people really love it.
Oh yeah, yeah, it's wonderful. Of course, there's always the parody version of it two in Hong Kong cinema. A lot of people get getting into it by just watching the parodies anyway. So this is something I just hang on my door. Actually, this is.
Like even with that symbol right there, I feel like a lot of a cult symbolism and that just like not even blatant, like the circle in the square together circle in the square very hermetic. Yeah, I don't know, that's uh, the X you're even getting like the X and them and it's just a huge with the cross of the swords. You see that everywhere in different different like I guess beliefs that symbol like that. You know, it's something that I've gotten out of this so far.
I mean, and I guess I kind of looked at it like that anyway, even though I didn't know much about it, because it is so uh, it is so big, and I guess ceremonial magic in a sense, this is very ritualistic, I would assume, like very almost like ceremonial there's a lot of it. It almost seems as if like it's already known that there's going to be a lot of study or figuring out stuff just getting into this. It's pretty interesting.
That's pretty many years, many years learning the basics.
Actually that's like not you know, sometimes it might look like I'm coming after Christians. It's just kind of funny how you look at like certain religion and it's like you to pick this up, you have to do all this in depth work, and then somebody's like, oh yeah, Jesus Saves, I'm good to go, right, Like what the fuck, how the fuck does that happen? I don't know, Like this is just listening to this, I'm like, you know, this is like picking up a whole of the like
system of ceremonial magic is fucking deep. Shit, it's impressive.
Oh yeah, it's but there's always an equivalent. I noticed in the West, like and that's why I noticed like the more I study Taoisan, the more I notice, hey, there is some counterpart in Western occult, because I'm also sudden a little bit of Western ocault, you know, just to you know, because I like to broaden my horizons and have more to talk about with lovely folks such
as yourselves. Right, So, and I study all this and I'm like, hey, that's we do the same thing in Taos them so above us below it's the same thing.
Another reason that you know again like that's you know, necessarily as picking on Christians. I should have even added more than I wanted to say, because, like I know you mentioned earlier about Catholicism, you're interested in that that, in my opinion, is extremely ritualistic as well. So is that kind of like were you looking for something that I had all that in there and that's why you know this interested you because you were hands on doing
things and stuff. Is that something you were kind of like looking to incorporate regardless of what you were into.
Yes, I do like the ceremony. I like the the instants, what we all do.
I was burning dragon's blood resident right now while we're doing this.
Yeah, yeah, and I yes, And there's something very comforting about the rituals in general, like Eastern rituals and Catholic rituals too. It's very comforting. The prayers. I still remember a lot of the prayers, you know, Hail Mary, full of grace, you know, the Hail Mary prayers, the Our Father, all of it. There is something very not just comforting, but also like it harkens back to like childhood, where
you know, we know nothing, we're disoriented. We can't even travel half a block without getting lost.
You know, that's really interesting how you're saying that, and you're incorporating like you're talking about the mother, and you're saying completely lost and not orientated. Just like a real interesting scientific fact. And I've mentioned this before, when the mother breastfeeds the child, the mother's panial gland will actually tell the child all that where you are, Yeah, the seasons, the time, Yes, the pineal gland, the mother's pineal gland.
We talked to the baby's panilla in the Yeah. So it's just funny how you mentioned like the mother and like you don't know where you are, Well, she's actually the one that does.
Tell you that now, Yeah, and speaking mother's there's always like a mother figure in almost every major belief system, we have the Virgin Mary, right and Catholicism we have the Guana, the bodhisopha goddess of mercy. And Buddhism we
have the equivalents the Hans and ron In in Taoism. Right, So there's always a there's always a place for like everybody, like for for both genders, I would say, like and for and then even like there's like third genders, like one of the bastion that you mentioned, Matt, one of them is transgendered. I believe it's I believe, yeah, so, but then again, you know flower boy, Yeah, yeah, yeah, yes.
Although obviously we think of it as like a translated as boy, but yeah, I mean he it's it's always a question, right, like what exact It's never quite.
It's he's ambiguous. I think that's a.
Kind of way it is. Yeah, there's only one one female for sure, like uh, of the eight immortals.
But yeah, do you think that that might go back to kind of like the hermaphadetic hermaphadic symbol for hold like cabalistically again, like go back to that image, do you think that might be a tie there, like maybe it's almost the same thing.
Yes, yes, I do, because somehow we all, you know, we're all separated by oceans and mountains, and we came up with observations that are eerily similar. I mean, uh, A lot.
Of chemical text show, like instead of Bohamett being just one person, it's it's a man in the female being split apart almost or together.
Right, well, it's we do need both, right according to to tell with them, yes.
Yeah, And what you were talking about the two polars, like then we have also the great motors in h in benign cabala.
Great. So is that there of life there? What is that there? Yeah? Yeah, oh it is right, Yeah, it is.
Yeah.
When there's the thing in the the idea of like the I mean you you're going to say it better.
But one thing generated the one and the one generated the two.
The truth, it's going to be like the same idea, Like there's the eyeing generates care and then behind and it generates all the other things. So it's always like the this idea.
Yes, very nice, Yeah, that's true. True. I remember one of them was, Oh I remember some of the names of it because I studied a bit of malkoot Is the kingdom. I'm probably mispronouncing it because it's supposed to be in Hebrew. That's yeah. And then there's like and I don't remember what the.
Difference better than average people.
Yeah, yeah, I studied. I find that quite interesting.
Actually, there's a there's a good Chinese story actually about that interaction between Ka and Cadula. It's about the fire god and the water god when they have their gongong. I think I can't remember, but uh, they have a battle before before the other gods, like it's a primordial battle right after depending on what cosmology you know, you
believe it. But when the giant cracks the egg and then he comes out and then the fire and the Water god have this kind of crazy battle and the earth sort of gets created recreated again, I guess, or flooded or whatever.
But yeah, that's the same. That's very similar, right right.
Yeah, that's that's so cool.
Was there any other questions that you guys had.
We had one about Blue Green?
Sorry, and that's that I'm trying. I'm not trying to wrap it up.
No, no, no, not at all, but very.
Interesting when you were describing the and I thought you had a great point, like it is very similar to ceremonial magic in my opinion as well. Like really and then also with the coin, you did pick up on it, and I guess I'm so used to seeing them that I didn't It didn't click for me right away. But yeah, it's exactly squaring the circle. It is like the well field. That's the old character for like a malcouth. That would be like a malcouth kind of idea, like a well
field like a house with the fields surrounding it. So there'd be like a exactly what you guys talked about the beginning, like a nine square, but with a tenth in the center that would be the actual farmstead, and then each field would be portioned off, you know, in a specific way. So it's definitely referring to that, like the central pillar junk wall, right like the Middle Kingdom. That's what China is called, right Like, it's all about like what country believes that they are the center of
the world, the pillar of the world. But you had a great point about the dragon, the dragon and the phoenix. So in Chinese chain can also mean blue green, So this is can you explain a little bit about that because a lot of people when they hear green, they think, oh, it's like jade green, but it's actually not quite jade green. There's actually a little bit of a conceptual difference.
Yes there is, and apparently it's not just some Chinese, because I lived in Thailand for a little while, and same thing in Thai. From what I could remember, there are like it's hard to well, I don't have the best type, but at first glance, there is almost no distinction between green and blue. But I'm not sure if it's just because of someone's color blindness or maybe because yeah, or maybe because of another reason. But but yes, ting
has that connotation. But I would say that if you write the character, I mean, it's like kind of like this, right, and that could also if you just add the three dots of water, it means pure and it's sing as in the Chain dynasty. And and because of that, like that's more associated with like purity anything like blue or green, like as pure as the as you know, the most beautiful like tropical ocean, or as blue as the skies.
That's a that's I mean, you just hit it. It's like this is the kabalistic parallel. It's that idea of the blue green also being clear, also being diamond thunder, you could say, also being like the escre, like Matt often talks about her, like I often talked about.
I call it a brig poor diamond under.
But that kind of fifth density, that's kind of a very important idea of like where you want.
To go in Kabbala.
You want to kind of go into that conceptual the pure sky, clear sky, but it looks blue, it looks blue, green or turquoise, but it's actually clear.
Yes. Yeah, the very color of purity of it's supposed to make us feel good, right, we look at it and we're calm, We're soothed when we look at like blue or green. I'm just ringing through the comments. I just realized there are comments, and that's where it's coming from, because sometimes a comment that pops up and I'm not sure where it's coming from.
Oh yeah, yeah, the bottom yeah, oh right, oh wow wow. I was just trying to see if there was any other questions here. Yeah, was there anything else that you wanted to mention about about any of this stuff.
I can respond to some of the comments, actually, because some of the ear towards me, and I didn't know that there were comments like this until now, I suppose where I am right now. I live in Southeast Asia. Actually right now, I'm in Cambodia.
Right now, it's like eleven class.
Yeah, exactly, Yeah, we're exactly. I'm actually at the same place where I saw that that demon that I talked about at the beginning. I'm at the exacting house. Yeah, so come around full circle. I'm really good friends, yeah with some of the villagers journey the ghost Yeah yeah, yeah, they let me see the ghosts and I come and live here and I try to purify things. But yeah, anyway,
I and thank you, mister dreadlock. I I spent some time like studying in the US and Canada, so I kind of see myself as an ambassador of Taoism to the West. In order to be an ambassador, you have to learn other people's languages. You have to You don't necessarily have to be a part of the culture, but
you still have to understand their culture. And I know that if I want to introduce house In to the West, then if I can't explain it clearly or if I have unintelligible English, that would make life much more difficult for me. And yeah, and someone mentioned something about something about oh yeah, the uh yeah, so the flower boy sounds like in modern terms and the West's femboy. Yeah, I suppose that would be one of the the eight eight immortals. Then Chinese magic. Let's see something about yeah,
tantric sex, I think was it? Yes, seman retention multior gas makes sense. Yes, we're technically so anyway, when we practice our ceremonies, we're technically as men, and we're not supposed to ejaculate at least three days before. And there's certain like probitions, certain means we can't eat, like you can't eat frog before or duck or dog. Not that I eat any of those anyway, but yeah, so there are certain like you know, these rules. I'm not sure
where they came from. I'm the least like dogmatic out of anyone that I know, but I try not to break certain rules. But I don't think they're in the doubt that, seeing they're not in any scripture. I think it just came from like our set. You know, some some master you know, centuries ago, right, found that, oh, if you ate frog and you can't do magic or something. But yes, you're you're supposed to retain your semen, because that's where the essence is that seeing. Yeah, yes, thank
you a coon. Yeah, that's seeing the essence it's supposed for men in any way supposed to be in the semens. That's why we're not supposed to excaculate before, you know, before doing magic, or even or even writing this. We're even writing a talisman. You're not supposed to ejaculate like the day.
Of you know that is it's like a huge thing. Unfortunately, it did like so many ceremonial traditions, either the lack of eating meat insects prior to serious rituals. Yeah, I'll be something that that get on that stating the vegan.
I could never be vegan.
I have limited meat.
Neither could I prior to rituals for sure, Yeah, no, neither could I.
The frog and the dog makes sense?
Sorry, sorry, master, Well that's okay. Yeah, yeah, there's frog, dog, duck and something else. I don't remember what it was to memorize. My master told me too many rules to memorize.
And dog is a transgressive substance, and so we would only use it for a ritual purpose, although we don't use real dog, but the idea it's the idea, right, it's the conceptual idea. But also frogs trapped the last breath. This is something I've heard from one like Cantonese folk. Frogs trapped the last breath, So that's why you don't want to eat them before rituals.
Also, good thing, good thing that you didn't go to Jewish Kapalada, because they have six hundred and three things you have to do or not.
They're very very stubborned, like oh yeah, yeah, I could never do that then because I also liked to eat pork, so that's very much against right in the West too, Right, there's bacon and ham, and you know people love pork. We have a like Chinese barbecue, Cantonese barbecue pork.
I mean that's like, yeah, yeah, I went to the US the first time a couple weeks ago, and I had a burger with bacon jam the first time I had literally I had a goose bump.
Thank you goose bumps. That's great. I don't this.
I would assume unless there's certain staples, uh in your whatever what you do, what are common goals of magical rituals. I mean I'm just assuming maybe that would be kind of like kind of personal, like you know you're the one deciding that.
Yeah, yeah, I would say it's like results magic, right, similar to like like any chaos magic practitioner. Right, you want to affect a result, we want something in return, we're willing to burn in sense, right, I mean that's there's nothing free in Taoism. Right, there's no such thing as a free lunch. If you want something, you got to give something. That's just the way it works. There's
even something called yin debt. Actually, now that we're talking about this where where where If you haven't been cursed, or if you if your phone's raise is great, but if you're still having bad luck, it's because you have to pay your yin debt. It's called yenzai. It means that once you've been like once you're dead. I mean, according to the Taoists, like theology, you know, you go to the underworld, you're escorted by neotom mien, which is
horse face and cow head. Right, those are the cycle pomps in Taoism, one of many actually, but apparently their services don't come for free. So you know, you accumulate a debt if you can't pay, well, you have a borrow, right, so technically you're supposed to well, actually, that reminds me because I have something here called the con scene. This is spirit money right here. I'm pretty sure mister Gin would be familiar with it as well, because it's very
much used in the East. You're supposed to burn some. You have to calculate your own in debt, right then you got to burn some to pay off your debt. So no such thing as a free lunch or or free incense. That's interesting, right, Yeah, it's called cut gold and spirit money. If you burn it, it goes directly to the underworld or to whoever whoever relative you want to burn things to. And that's why in Taois funerals
we do a lot of burning. You would see like you know, like you would even see like it's all made a paper, right, But if you want your grandpa to have his iPhone in the effortlife, you have to burn like a cut up like you know, a paper version of a phone. You would see a paper version of a house.
Right.
That's uh, yeah, that's very much very much about it's very much burning the stuff so that your relatives in the underworld could receive it. Before they reincarnate.
So I guess even another thing that uh I'm just getting out of from what you're telling me. Also very uh very much with like honoring or acknowledging uh the past, you know people passed on.
Mm hmm.
I guess it's you know, kind of like how you even mentioned before. I guess with ghosts. I mean that kind of fits.
No, yeah, yeah, ancestor worships collect yeah, yeah, I prefer call it veneration. But in every tow was Chinese towers household, we would have we call like a lean tongue and it means like a spirit, like an altar, right, and and you might have a what we call a like a spirit tablet. And because it's a very fact that without them, there wouldn't be us. You know, if they if our ancestors you know, did not have sex, right, we wouldn't be here today. Right, So that's why we're
honoring them. It's we're honoring their lives. And and in Taoism where basically like you, even after they're dead, you still have to take care of them. You have to make sure you know, they're buried in what we call the yin residents yin yinzai and it means and this is a part of fung shwe that Matt asked about earlier that functually deals with anything to do with the
yin the yin realms. So you make sure that your grandpa is buried in a proper place, a place that is conducive to his own pun shwait and or else there could be hell to pay. I mean, like he could he could like wreak havoc from beyond the grave. He could he would let you know that he's unhappy or all right, he could make sure that he would stop your prosperity for instance. Right, So yes, so very
much about ancestor veneration and and that's why. And that's a cultural thing too, because that's why, like boys, having a boy is more seem to be more culturally valuable than having a girl in the in China anyway, because it's the it's patrilineal and Patrick Nimmicks, so the man carries on the family name. Right, If you have a girl, she marries, she's married off to someone and she goes
to marry to live in her husband's residence. Patrick local too, right, the three the three p's, I call them the three patries. So yeah, so having descendants is very much a thing in Eastern culture because there they have to be there to like sweep your tomb during this tomb sweeping ceremony. They have to be there to you know, pass on the family name, to have to continue the lineage. Makes sense. Yeah, but that's very much a cultural thing, I know, not in agriculture.
It is like that funny how it goes for for Jewish the woman's side.
Actually, yeah, I heard about that too. Yeah.
Yeah, if the mother is a Jewish, you're technically the father could be in the mother parts you're not Jewish.
Yeah, anything else, you guys, I have one last one. I have one last one. I promise my last one.
Hey by Woo song, you are you familiar with the yes? Okay, so if you everybody loves this, like people Westerners. I'm a Westerner, but I'm gonna use that term to refer to like anyone who's not familiar with Chinese cosmology. It's not a I'm not calling anyone names or anything. I'm part of that. So, but people really love this in the West. I found like the two ghosts of Gods. They just it's like the journey to the west. It
kind of just captures them for whatever reason. So if you don't mind saying a couple of words about them.
And who they are.
Yeah, So so they're like neotom mien the uh what was it called horse face and how their cycle pomps.
Uh.
There, we would call them like wait hire yinsaig and it means that yin police or the ghost police. They're there to escort you to the afterlife because once you're for whatever reason, your physical body no longer works on the physical realm. You're dead. It's a permanent transition to the other planes of existence. You got to go. So in Taoism, they don't like you hang around when you
clearly don't belong on the earthly plane anymore. You're dead already gotta leave, so they're there to make sure that you get to you need to go. So hey, by wotang is these are technically so they're tycle pomps, but they're technically they're once human. These are two humans that lived in ancient China at different times, and they displayed great virtue their compassionate help others and the celestial the
pantheon led by Yuhuangdad meaning the Jay Dumper. He's supposed to be like the you know, the all powerful number one guy in the pantheon. He made them psychopomps and it's their job to escort newly deceive souls to the afterlife. And mister Jen mentioned the movie Rigor Mortis, Hong Kong movie. Those two appeared in that field. I'm not sure you remember in the hallway holding umbrellas. I remember that scene very well, and there was a woman and her child
there and then the main character. They were all terrified, right, but the woman said, well, who is it that said? Someone told the main character, don't bother them, get out of their way, and they won't reap your soul. So they're like grim reapers essentially. Yeah, and in Taiwan they call that, say, seventh Grandpa, eighth Grandpa. I'm not sure why, but anyway, Yeah.
It must have a different story over there.
They must have some other weird, you know, worktale that they yeah, associated with that.
Thank you so much. That was a great That was better than I could do. So thank you so much for that.
Funny how you mentioned the ghost police. They have a similar, very similar concept in Afro Syncratic religions. In Brazil, so like in Banda and one of these kind of things where this is the thing, like if you go to Semetary, there is going to be like the specific like shoe or like Pao or whatever, the kind of war as the place and make sure that, like you said, there's nobody like wandering around. They just yeah, let's go next incarnation, you know, just push it over.
That's right. They don't mess around, you know. Uh.
I guess if you guys are good, I mean, as we could probably wrap it up here. Unless there's anything else that you wanted to add any questions matter Jin had, I'm pretty good.
That was.
That was a lot of stuff, dude, Thank you very much for coming on. Like again, I really I didn't know you. I didn't know anything behind it, and you really have piqued my interest. So I almost want to start looking at so looking at your stuff to see if it helps me out on my end with the stuff I'm into. Yeah, uh yeah, again, thank you very much. And again Matt and Gin, thank you guys for jumping on.
I mean, this was I truly truly enjoyed this. I you know, it wasn't it wasn't bad getting up and you know, making sure I was ready for ten o'clock Sunday morning for this. You know, I truly enjoyed doing this before we ended. We'll have everybody plug this stuff and let everybody know where you can find them, jin real quick, let everybody know where they can find your amazing work.
Sure, so I just want to say any master soon, and thank you to Nick and Matt especially for tolerating my like diaspora Daoist Buddhists burg But Matt knows this is like my I rarely get to discuss it like as much. So thank you so much, Master Consent for tolerating it and like dealing with my kind of meandering way of getting there there.
Maybe that's very.
But I really appreciated it. Yeah, me too, And thank you Nick for inviting me and now obviously for joining. Of course I love that and that's all. I don't need to plug myself, but you can always check me out with cong Reborn and Threshold Saints and obviously the Great Lodge and just I have a lot of fun doing these, like some panels like this where it's like a kind of newfound topic because I can't be a master of like all the subjects like I'm not even a master of.
My own.
So like it's you know, to do this and like be able to sort of explore the system I'm sort of familiar with but not quite is really very.
Well, You're already very knowledgeable, Jen, I'm very impressed with your knowledge already. You know a lot more than because you grew up in the West, right, but you seem to be very knowledgeable about the Eastern concepts as well.
I did live in Asia for quite a long time, so that's part of it too.
Oh I see, no never figuring it out. Thank you, Jin, I really appreciate you coming on for real. And Matt, thank you again, Bro for coming on. I really appreciate it. Let everybody know where they could find all your amazing stuff for sure.
Also had a lot of fun with what Jin was talking about, Like I wish, you know, I could clone myself, and you know, part of a clone of myself is like an in China learning all the how is stuff, an under clone is learning all the other stuff. So I cannot all just hang on with the Kabala just pretty good already. But yeah, I had a lot of fun. Thanks Thanks Master, Thanks Nick for calling. Thanks to you for being here as well. Thanks everyone in the comments.
So yeah, you can always find me on also shows at thet More nineteen. So that's Twitter, that's YouTube, that's Instagram, TikTok and now Twitch as well. Shout out to Polar Nights in the in the chat you created an account there.
It's my one, but it's my one fan on Twitch exactly.
Now I'm on Twitch as welcome those. Maybe I'll start the instreams reading the art filmer. I should, I should do this.
And also my website that's always Kabbala dot com k A A B A l a h dot com.
Thanks a lot again, No, thank you very much for coming on. Matt and Uh, Messa Gongs Gungswan. Please let everybody know where they can find all your stuff. Certainly, I'm at on YouTube, I'm massacles on Taoism. You can go to the Sweet Divine tao dot com where I discussed uh, where I discussed.
My own lineage of Taoism. I'm on Instagram, I'm on x at, slash master, going swin one and I'm going to add all of you on there. Actually I'm gonna follow you guys on Twitter, Instagram, and and everything as well.
We're head I Jay, you're on Twitter, I gotta find you on that.
Sure, Well I don't really use it okay either, but that's how I reach people because most people are active on there, so so I forced myself to create an account.
Oh if it wasn't for me trying to get in touch with like either people for the show and stuff, I probably really wouldn't use social media that much at all. Like I had to have my preset posts from like, you know, spreaker or whatever, like share from YouTube. But I really don't think i'd be on social media much anymore. It's fucking shit hole, shit show. Really just a shit show.
Okay, I just followed gins. I'm gonna follow his money.
I'll definitely follow you back. And I want to apologize for my I made a couple of Mandarin mistakes. I know there's a couple of language spurgs, and our fan of my guests will call him and I just I apologize for that.
It's I'm rusty my dad, so it doesn't happen either.
Send you perfectly, Yeah, no problem. Communication rage just about understanding. If you can understand each other then and that's all that matters.
Absolutely thank you for saying that, but I know it's a little rusty.
Thank you.
I will after the show. I totally forgot. I will include your YouTube link in the show notes so people can go over and smash. That's a prescribe button over there, so definitely go check out his channel again, Matt jin Master. I really appreciate you guys coming on going so on. You're always welcome on. If you ever got an idea or a topic for the show, please just hit me up. I'm sure we'll keep in touch anyway. But if you
ever got an idea for the show, definitely welcome on. Man, that was a great, great presentation and I really thoroughly enjoyed it. Thank you everybody in the chat. It was awesome. Questions you know, I really appreciate that people. If people listening you want to ask questions, please just throw them in there the guests. I'm sure we'll be happy to answer them, and it's you know, less.
Work for us.
No, but there's a lot of questions that sometimes people ask in the chat. I'll be like, damn, I wish I would have thought of that, you know what I'm saying, Or it's like you know, I know myself sometimes as a listener when the show's over, you're like, fuck, I really wish they would have asked this or that, so I will get those ideas from the listeners, So please, if you've got questions, throw them in there.
Again, thank you all.
It was an awesome show. I thoroughly enjoyed it and until the next one, everybody be well later