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Coming, All guys, welcome everybody to the Occult Rejects today.
We got a packed, packed house.
We got one, two, three, four, five, six, seven, eight, and uh we got one guest and seven occult rejects coming at you tonight. Uh yeah, I'm not gonna let everybody plug their own show. Just to keep it simple. We got Lisa, the Occult reject Mad Scientists. We got Gin the motherfucking Ninja. We got the Headless Giant himself. We got Ethan Indigo, we got TJ, we got the o g himself, Robbie Marx, we got everybody in the house tonight.
We got.
Scorpion and Spider, Spider and Scorpion symbolism, and who better else to bring in but the Tarot Man himself, Mario from Symbolic Studies. Mario, thank you so much for jumping on with us tonight and covering with this covering this topic with us. That's what's up. Let all the people who don't know who you are yet, all the new listeners know where they can find your amazing work, please sir.
Yeah, for sure.
So people can go to Symbolic Studies dot com and there they can find my my YouTube and my Instagram, Twitter, all that kind of stuff.
I do a lot of short form videos.
I just released a new one today about the relationship with Sagittarius in the Rainbow, which is pretty interesting. But if people go to my YouTube, we'll find longer form of content on my live tab and I have presentations and things like that.
But they can find everything on my site.
Awesome, thank you very much. I forgot I think it was probably the last episode we were on. Somehow we ended up talking about scorpion and snake symbolism. A scorpion inspired of symbolism.
My bad.
I've used them myself recently, just in artwork that I've done, and I do think it's my opinion the things that I used a lot in occultism. So I guess, like, what got you even to even kind of like looking into that stuff or picking that stuff up, Mario, If you don't mind me asking or was it just something that came along through.
Taro and just looking at art, right, I mean, Scorpio is a sign that's really huge. You know, there's so much like information connected to Scorpio, and so a lot of people say that that's the deepest sign in astrology. You know, there's three emanations, which kind of tells you about its depth. Right, It's a scorpion, it's a serpent, it's also an eagle phoenix, and so with Scorpio, you know, I've done a ton of work with that sign. That was actually the first sign I ever made any content about.
So Halloween season twenty twenty is when I started putting out content, and so I was covering the death card and things like that. Scorpio is well known for, you know, corresponding with like sex and death. So it's always been an interesting sign. And then spider symbolism to me, actually wasn't something that came online until maybe like a year and a half ago or something like that. And it's
really interesting. I think the conversation we had that kind of kickstarted having this stream tonight is the fact that there are kind of some people out there suggesting that if there's a creature or an animal that represents the current age.
It might be eight legged.
So Thomas Sheridan, he's an interesting guy, he proposes he made a couple of videos about the octopus being sort of like the totem animal of the current age, and he went to all of these different reasons why, and he is interested in love, crafty and stuff, and so the octopus.
Very much like tied to that, right.
But then the number eight in and of itself is interesting. And then kind of in the background too, I've had conversations with several friends about the nature of the spider and spider symbolism kind of being a thing, and so that was kind of a weave with a few of
my friends in person that we would talk about. And then just before this stream, I had mentioned that one of my friends has had some like astral sort of dream like experiences with like a spider queen, and spider symbolism relates heavily to the feminine for sure, So there's so many examples of this same thing with scorpio. So there's a lot of things that kind of overlap between the two. So maybe that could be a good place to start. Is sort of like what is relatable between
the two. So they're both the rachnids, the scorpion and the there's the eight legged dynamic between the two. Like I said, very very feminine. The spider is known for being like a weaver and a spinner basically, and so spinning symbolism. There's so much feminine stuff kind of going on there in and of itself. I have some old moon cards, some old tarot cards that correspond with the moon, and you actually see spinners like women, like spinning thread
and stuff like that, like on that card. And so even the moon has like all of this stuff related to the spider, and so you're gonna see a lot of lunar symbolism kind of baked into the spider. The fact that the spider two draws things in right, it's like the web itself. It's like a snare or a trap. That's really feminine. You know, women are receptive, women are so magnetic. You know, opportunities men everything comes to them. They don't have to go anywhere. It's more of man's
nature to go out and travel and conquest and whatever. Yeah, that's even that I've been talking about that.
Sorry to interrupt you, but I think You've even brought that up before in the past, kind of like the whole idea with the king and the queen. The queen stays home and the king goes out and fights the battles.
That's it.
All you really have to do is just look at our reproductive organs and how they work. Right, So it's the sperm of man that kind of leaves home and goes on a journey and travels right, And then it's the eggs of a woman that'll stay in the confines of her body and to become inseminated to actually create a baby. And so the feminine is way more passive
that way. The masculine is more projective. I even think of the bow and arrow, so literally it's the arrow that leaves, it's the phallus that leaves, but it's the bow that stays with the.
Archer, right, and that bow is very, very feminine.
So there's a whole aspect of the spider being receptive that way and kind of in airing you know, what it feeds on. And then also too with the feminine thing, there's a lot of like dark mother symbolism associated with both the spider and the scorpion. So even the spider dynamic with it eating its mate.
Right.
I don't know how many like species of spiders that actually like happens with, but that's definitely a thing. There's actually a great movie. Has anyone here seen Under the Skin. No, it's completely related to this. It's really fantastic. I'm not going to give too much away, but it's about the whole entire dynamic of luring men in and kind of like taking advantage of them. It's like a sci fi horror movie. Scarlett Johansson's actually in it, and it blew
me away. I saw in the theater once. But it relates to some of the stuff that I'm gonna be talking about tonight. Probably the most interesting thing that I wanted to bring up. And we have so many like like intelligent panelists here, I want to give people time to talk. I came across a book called Arakney Rising, and I didn't read it from cover to cover, but I got the gist of what this guy was trying to propose. And it kind of weaves in like spider symbolism,
scorpio symbolism, and even the number thirteen. It's Friday the thirteenth, right, and the number thirteen is like really really intriguing to me. But this guy was trying to make the case that there's a constellation kind of like a hidden constellation, and there's a lot of lost constellations. There's even a book I've been wanting to get for years, literally titled lost Constellations, Constellations that were acknowledged way back in the day that
people don't acknowledge. Obviously, this is like always an evolving sort of thing, but he was saying that there's a constellation that is called Arakney and it's a spider, and he was trying to make the case that this is actually the true hidden thirteenth sign, right, the true hidden thirteenth constellation. And I just thought it was interesting, and I'm always willing to hear people out out and maybe
it becomes relevant later or whatever. But what I thought was really intriguing was that he was placing it directly opposite of Efucus, which is what most people say is like the thirteenth sign, right, So most people when they make this claim, I've heard people make the claim of the Pleiades is the thirteenth constellation, Arakne being the thirteenth constellation, Ofucus being the thirteenth constellation. So the fact that Arakney
is opposite O. Fucus I thought was really intriguing. Ofucus is riding between Scorpio and Sagittarius, and even a lot of people say that the arrow of Sagittarius is pointing towards O. Fucus, or that the stinger of the Scorpion is pointing towards Ofucus. And right in this area too, is where a lot of people say is the galactic center as well, and that that's actually what these constellations
are kind of pointing towards or whatever. What I've heard through authors who are really interested in like the polar tradition and primordial tradition, I've heard it be said that
Ofucus symbolically is the exit off of the zodiac. It's almost like a bend in a river something along these lines, and it actually takes you to the northern portion of the sky, so it's almost like a bend towards the inner portion of the ecliptic basically, and Ofucus is more northern than all of the other signs along the ecliptic.
The path of the sun right and Ofucus also, people say that it's ruled by mercury too, which is really interesting, and so that makes a lot of sense because Ofucus is like the serpent bearer, the serpent handler, and there's a lot of serpentine symbolism with mercury and stuff like that, and the healing arts and stuff like that comes into play. I would say with all three of these signs, Scorpio, Sagittarius,
and Ofucus. And so I've heard it be said that Ofucus is the exit from the zodiac, and it being the thirteenth sign, the number thirteen breaks to me the way I put it in my words, right, it kind of breaks a solar spell. And the number twelve is heavily related to this solar spell, this solar dynamic, this
solar age that we kind of live in. Right now, you've got the twelve signs of the zodiac, right, You've got twelve numbers on a standard clock, right, and the clockwise rotation of the hands that we see on all clocks that's more of a solar rotation. To go counterclockwise is actually more of a polar rotation. The solar rotation is more expansive, like the rays of the sun, more projective, more masculine. The polar rotation is more contractive and goes
towards the center, goes towards the pole. This is why in Islam, you go to the mecca, you go to excuse me, mecha, you go to the kabba cube. You go around the kabbacube seven times. You go counter clockwise, as you're actually going towards the center, you're getting closer to mother. Basically, the kabba cube is a symbol of the mother pretty much, right. It even literally has a veil.
It's called the kisswah, So they create a new veil every single year, and veil symbolism heavily ties into virgo symbolism. This is when you know, the virgin wears the veil, right, and then the veil is lifted on her wedding day, when she symbolically no longer is a virgin.
Right.
But virginity used to mean something else way back in the day.
It meant unwed pretty much, not physical virginity, So you could still have had sex, but technically, or I guess in using the old language, you were still a virgin pretty much.
So when virginity mostly applied to women.
Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, that makes sense. That makes perfect sense exactly.
And so the number thirteen basically breaks the harmony of the twelve signed system that most people follow. So with a twelve signed system, you have this perfect sort of gritted circle, right, you have four quadrants, you have this cross, right, and then in each quadrant you have three signs, giving you twelve signs in total. If we had thirteen signs, it breaks that harmony. And so it's actually the number thirteen does break sort of this solar spell like I'm
referring to. And the number thirteen is the card in the terror that corresponds with death, and so the death kind of breaks a cycle in itself right with what it represents and everything else. And the death card is what corresponds with scorpio as well. So again scorpio relates to sex and death, and so there's an interesting dynamic
with scorpio and the number thirteen, and even Sagittarius. Sometimes Sagittarius's tail used to have a stinger at the end of it, literally a scorpion tail, and so and even sometimes too, Death used to carry a bow and arrow and have an actual scythe with them, which kind of corresponds to the archer and things like that. And so what I've kind of heard over time is that this exit, this this o fucus sort of gateway out of the solar cycle of things is basically it's a it's a
polar sign, it's a northern sign. It's actually encouraging you to go back to an older skyclock. So what I've talked about before is that the path of the sun and the modern skyclock that is astrology. Modern astrology is a newer construct basically, but in the Primordial Age a long long time ago, the skyclock was ursa major and minor, and so a fucus kind of encourages you to go back to a polar sort of dynamical polar age and polar wisdom and things like that.
Well, I act wonder, Mario, if you can imagine those two snakes being like a branch and the rest of the zodiac being the fruit, and we're hanging off of the northern pole, right, So it's like not only exit but also entrance. So it's like we're sort of that fruit hanging off the vine or the branch.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, totally, no, I can totally see that for sure. So Scorpio creates like an axis with Taurus as well, which is really interesting. And what I've basically heard, because Taurus and Scorpio are opposite each other, is that in this primordial age, the main exit to the other side to the heavens, this stairway to heaven idea, existed in the northern sky, and that the Pole Star was kind of this star that basically was an indicator of where the exit from this cave actually is right.
And during this transition from a.
Polar age to a solar age, the axis shifted, so kind of the gateway to the other side shifted. And what I've heard is that the Pleiades and Taurus kind of acted as this new sort of mark that indicated this exit out or this exit in, and that this new axis basically went to the northern sky through the Polestar along the lines of what's referred to as the
world axis or Axis Mondi. And then now basically a lot of people acknowledged that the Pleiades and Taurus, or sorry, the Pleiades, Taurus and Scorpio kind of operates as this new axis because it's along the path of the Sun.
And when people became.
More solar, they wanted to find this new gateway that basically has this harmony with the solar path pretty much.
And so on one side you have scorpio.
On the other side you have aracne potentially, so on both sides you have this this scorpion and then you have this spider. So that's kind of another interesting like parallel between the two.
That brings up cancer. Like the height of summertime would be like the thing in the middle. And if you think about the three fates of the moide, you've got Clotho, the spinner, You've got atroposts, which would obviously be the you know, the stinger, and then what's in the middle. I think the middle part would probably be that crab symbolism because it's sort of always moving. The crabs make massive migrations. They're the measurers of distance, which.
In Egyptian terms was the scare beetle, the symbol of rebirth.
That's right, yeah, yeah, exactly. It's interesting you bring that up too, because there's a relationship with scorpio, the scorpion and a lot of other words that begin with We made a whole entire video about this, so like skin to skin something I guess skin came from skinning, which came from the fact of skinning an animal, like with a blade. Right, there's always this penetrative sort of thing. So screw, scalpel, scar to scold somebody, right, even like skull.
There's a lot of words that begin with this sound and actually relate to scorpio or the scorpion or have some sort of correspondence like that. So scare a beetle, I would say, is like another one, right, So they're both water signs the cancer and then and then scorpio.
Right.
So so that was one weave that I just wanted to get off my chest, you know, with everything, the world wide web, right, what we're on right now too, And so is this a snare? Is this a trap of some sorts? You know, reality itself has been likened to a web or like a fabric that's woven and things like that. So I think that's another interesting, you know,
correspondence with everything. The spider resting in the middle of a web has been likened to like the center of the world or the center of the universe, which I think is really interesting, which exts in line yep with the axis mundy as well.
Yeah, exactly, right.
The number eight too has been a thing that I think is, you know, just really intriguing. Some people have said that, you know, if the number seven has all of this mystical stuff going on with it, there's alchemical processes that make use of seven steps.
Right.
It's said that there's seven colors to the rainbow, but I'm learning that there's actually six colors. But the seventh color is actually like invisible. It's kind of the etheric transcendental color. Basically again ursa major minor. They each have seven stars. You've got the seven traditional planets, seven days of the week. Right, it goes on and on and on. There's actually a number of myths that incorporate seven spiders
or seven scorpions. So I guess when Isis was looking for Osirius's body parts, that she brought seven scorpions along with her. And then in one of my books too, there's an old spell that I came across, and you say the scorpions name or the person you're trying to basically like hex seven times and then it'll go out and sting the person that you're actually trying to sting and inflict damage on. So there's a number of things.
When I was reading through my books, I'm like, Wow, there's the number seven again, seven spiders or seven scorpions or something along those lines. Seven chakras, right, so the number eight might be like the destination of going through seven steps. Basically, it's almost kind of like the apex or pinnacle or something along those lines, once you go through those seven different tiers or gradients or processes or whatever. So I think it was kind of intriguing.
The Book of Enoch, or the books of Enoch, I should say, the Slavonic eno they specifically talk about their seven days of creation and then there's an eighth day of timelessness or rest. But the entire Enochian system is based around sevens or seven seven seven, got it?
Got it?
Yeah, that makes perfect sense exactly.
Eight and thirteen would have a lot in common, then, wouldn't they, because they break the cycle right exactly.
Yep, that's how I see it too, for sure.
The system of music that we use now too, right, is got seven notes, but it's called a set of octaves, and so that eighth in that not only is this symbolic, but in that structure, the eighth is leading to the next level. As you kind of alluded to, Maria.
Excellent. Yeah, man, I'm super into it. I've also heard people refer to this as the eighth climb. I'm not even sure what word means, uh c L I M. But one of my books he refers to as the eighth climb once you get to that point. And then I think Rudolph Steiner has a thing about the eighth sphere which sounds like it could be related to some of this business as well.
Well.
I always think about the seven spheres as lacking the eighth part, of course, which is us earth right having
having that structure to it too. And in Dallas kind of reckoning, embodying the eight levels is understanding the eight elements of the eaching and that really and this, this whole process is has a divination path towards it about it, but it also teaches us essentially to walk softly relative to the world, and then the world is not as impactful in regards to us and the spider and in Taoism has a very respected life in that it creates with its mind from its body, and uh, it really
illustrates the something that we can all seek to embody. The Wu Way process right, it sets up its web, it doesn't work more than it needs to, and it it is patiently receptive.
It's going back to what you're saying, without feminine energy. So the whole.
Yeah, the whole WU Way idea is having the most result from the least tedious effort and useless effort.
Gotcha. Yeah, I love that too.
You had mentioned something before the stream about a Native American myth or deity that's related to the spider Yeah, being a grandmother, right, yeah, yeah, the Hope.
And actually the reason why I can never pronounce Hopey words is because of their ski and w's and they all have this word I cannot pronounce.
It has a skit in it, I believe.
But the.
Spider Grandmother, of course, embodies the feminine and combines and then separates with the son God, Hope, you did to create all life, to weave all life, and she spins out from from.
Her web.
All the people and all the tribes, and in symbolic kind of relationships, she brings all humanity out of the four caverns into the first world.
And then there we are in the fourth world.
Now according to the Hope and Uh, the the Spider Grandmother of course brings us in kind of this uh orphic even up and down manner that we've been touching on recently. She brings us into the underworld and saves us from these cataclysms and then brings us back up,
and so the the Hope. Uh And in the Southwest and in many different Native American cultures they have similar spider woman divinities, but none so as specific or are articulated, maybe as the as the Hope, which the Hope have a prophecy too about uh this that one day the spider web will cut for the Earth. And I believe all their prophecies are when this happened, good things might occur. And if this happens, not too good things might occur.
So I think that's what is kind of gaimed them respect But the prophecy I was alluding to is about one day the Turtle Island in North America will be covered by a spider web.
And for many decades it was noted to be.
The telephone poles and the electric poles, but in recent times, of course, it's.
Been related to the Worldwide Web. One the.
Hindus, they believe that the spider and the spider web is like the as as you mentioned to Mario, the veil between Maya and Nirvana. Right, it's it's the very dimension that we passed through, these these energies and and all that reminded me of the very famous eight legged animal that's not real, the slip mirror of Odin, who's of course related to eight and all that, but his horse has eight legs in order to transverse these dimensions.
It's it is said, so that I appreciate you let me to share. That's all kind.
Of for sure, man, No, that's excellent. Yeah, yeah, A couple of my books brought up some of those things that you just brought up to.
Yeah.
I mean, the other thing I wanted to mention is this spin dynamic. And if we're talking about kind of like spin transversing or going through different like realities or thresholds or whatever you want to say, you know, there's a huge parallel with this sort of opening or gateway with the world axis what people refer to as that.
And so when you're talking about spinning everything, whatever spins has to have an axel, it has to have a folk rum, it has to have a point of pivot, and so one of my books was saying that literally the word spider comes from an Old English word spythra, which literally means spin. And then in German the word for spider, I guess is like spin or spine or something like that spi n e. So literally just going
back to this spinning sort of dynamics. So again, nothing can rotate, nothing can revolve without this sort of axis in the middle. Which the more I learn about symbolism, so many things go back to axial symbolism, you know, like a point of pivot, you know. And I would say mother is the hub of the wheel.
She just is.
Mom is the hub of the wheel with the family unit. In many ways, she makes the world go round. Even in the World card and the tarot, you have a woman in the middle of this wreath around her right, It's like it doesn't it wouldn't make sense to me symbolically to have a man there, But it makes all the sense in the world to have a woman there. And oftentimes she has like a cloth wrapped around her.
So I see a lot of world axis symbolism and axial symbolism, hub the hub of the wheel symbolism with woman like through and through big time and I'm coming across a lot more information about woman and her relationship with the pillar, which the pillar essentially is like an axle as well pretty.
Much right well, I think that clotho angle, the spinner angle, has to do with the repeating cycles of time, right And that's sort of how we get tracked in that spiderweb. Is that continual repeating, that continual going back. But I have pulled up here the spider Kachina from the Hopie and Hope mythology. Spider Kachina is a significant figure associated with creation, fertility, and wisdom, often depicted as a kachina doll carved in wood figurine adorned with feathers, cloth, and
other emblement embellishments. According to the Hope legend, Spider Kachina is a manifestation of Spider Grandmother, a powerful and benevolent deity that played a crucial role in the creation of the world. Spider Grandmother is said to have brought life and order to the world. What's really interesting is that the Hopie are very, very in tune with keeping the cycles of tradition, so they'll have like eight month long rituals that people can come see at the very end,
and I have a special connection to the Hope. Back in two thousand and one, me and my mom went out to Arizona to actually see older ribe. The oldest city in the United States, over eight hundred years old, continuously lived in right now basically a trailer park. They moved all their trailers up.
On this.
Butte and on top of this butte, this is where the oldest city existed. So they have a bunch of hogans outside of the buttes, but they have to maintain their ritual presence there because that's how they maintain their connection to their gods. So when me and my mom went there, it was in January, and in January there's
not much tourism out there. But when we showed up, they welcomed us in like family, and we actually got to see a naming ceremony for one of the babies that was just born because we were there to get a raven Kachina and so, you know, they bring us into their home, they feed us beaky bread and beans, and like, I've never met these people in my life, and you know, they're treating me like family. So it was a magnificent experience.
Nice. Nice, Yeah, I bet hey headless.
You're pretty knowledgeable with with Greek mythology, right, A little bit is Arakney, do you do you know much about that specific myth and and her contest with Athena not at all.
Let me know what it is.
Yeah, I do know a little bit about that, but you go ahead, go ahead, Maria.
Okay, right on.
Yeah, So, I mean I don't know too too much, but I just reread like several accounts of it, just like really quick summaries of what the deal is, looking into the spider thing, and so.
They had the right exactly right. Yeah.
So Arakney was a young woman and she was an excellent spinner, and so she created tapestries that were beautiful, and basically she challenged Athena to a spinning contest. And one of the versions that I read was that they both created this tapestry and it was declared that they were equal and that it was essentially like a tie, and.
So Athena could find no flaws in her weaving. Wow, she got enraged, so but yeah, go ahead.
Yeah.
And so.
Basically the fact that she didn't win and that it was a tie completely like was devastating to her. So she actually hung herself which is really interesting given you know, all of this stuff, and so I mean, given the nature of the spider and what it does, and so apparently she was basically preserved in the constellation Aracney, which I don't have any books that actually acknowledged this constellation, by the way, I just looked, and for some reason they're not there.
And that.
Out of our eighty eight constellations, only thirty five are Greek, so the vast majority were later but the Greeks actually had like one hundred and thirty five constellation and so we don't really have access to a lot of that knowledge because we don't go back to the Greek astrological comparison. But I think when it comes to a Rackney, it really has a lot to do with the idea of fate. And I think it was Athena that challenged a Rackney because a Rackney boasted much better she was.
Yeah, and that original tale comes from Ovid's metamorphosis.
Right, yeah, Yeah, So I think that's really interesting too.
So let me see here real quick.
Jinn have something to say.
I saw him on Mute as Mike, I didn't I didn't know if he was trying to say something before that.
Oh yeah, sure, thanks man.
Thanks No.
I want to say, Mario, in contric astrology like this, what you're saying is opposite a fucus or a rockney is actually considered an invisible constellation and it is considered part of the pleiades can that are part of the matrakas. But it's empty. She is empty. So she is eight, like she's eight limbed, And I just posted a picture. Nick just retweeted it on the rejects things so people can go look on the feed, so people can look at it. But she's really nine. She's not really eight
because she always has a concert. There's always the implication of a concert in all contract images, whether they are depicted or not. Now, if I'll teach people just a little trick to looking at iconography. If they hold a trident and the trident has the prongs closed, that means that usually that the consort is implied. If the prongs are open, that means they are receptive to receiving the lightning strike or the consciousness of the concert. So you
can see that there's always an implication. And it's interesting because in the Mahaviga system, Matongi, who is the goddess that I'm referring to. She plays a sea tar, and it's considered that she controls the rajas, thea or the carnatic sort of compositions of the old of South India that were adopted into these kind of Vedic ritual grammars. So she would sort of rearrange the grammars. And even in her story, she's described as a chandali as an out cased as a tribal goddess, meaning that she is
part of the pleats, but she's actually not. She's actually from outside of the civilization. She's outside of the container of who they are. So it's something that it exists
in a liminal space. It's more of a reflection of what happens at the sun, and that that she gathers all the ritual grammar, maybe you could say the ritual grammar of mercury, or maybe you could say the ritual grammar of like a higher source, and she puts it together and that is the song she plays, and then that is what creates like the maya or the illusion around us.
So when it comes to the citar, it's like closing and opening. So that's that's what I feel when you're talking about that, it's like the waves of it itself. It goes from so far out to so far in within one single stroke of the citar that I really feel that.
Jin what you were saying about the console. I don't know if this is related to it. But whenever I think of any number, you know, if I'm thinking of the three, I think of a triangle. If I'm thinking of the four, I think of the square. Right, the hidden console is always that center point right. So with any number, every number has a relationship with that next additional step, that next number right. So the eight has a relationship with the nine, nine, with ten, you know,
et cetera, et cetera. Is that kind of related to what you're saying, by chance?
Absolutely, And I think it even relates to your point about the four and the eight. Sorry, I doul a little numerology the thirteen and the eight eight, but in the more western way. So because eight is hod it's the eighth sphere, and then thirteen has a secret meaning where it's just said, but it's the three plus one. So fire, earth and water in synthesis produces the secret fourth thing, which is air. But this is also related to vadra, lightning or perception, So there's an inter relationship.
And even what Headless said about the naming of things, that's a property of hode, Like you would name something, call something into reality, into form with its proper true name if you want to say it like that, and so, but it would be reflected or bounced off the ocean that is said or is Jupiter, So that goes into really a dialectical relationship with the way the numbers work.
And also yes, definitely the concert. And I was thinking it's so interesting because I'm working on an eon of the Daughter series right now and just thinking about like you're saying, there's a lot of mother energy, and I think for me, I think of it and as more of a daughter energy. But I think it's like a very interesting formulation, like because they are the same in some ways, but then they also have important distinctions. So I think that's very interesting and corollary, well.
When you're talking about the naming, naming goes into the cloth ough angle. This is the spinning. When you're naming something, you're sort of spreading it out and opening it up because then you have the access to it. And like he was saying, it's the naming of the thing is what spins and weaves the universe. So I think that goes into the deeper meetings behind some of that sympathetic magic.
It's going to interject really quickly speaking of sympathetic magic, can you hear me? Okay? So most of the meso American natives, they also practiced sympathetic or emititive magic, or whatever they saw they worshiped her, they put into practice, into rituals or whatever. And it seems like whatever they feared was a god to them, right, because whatever was I guess some strife or whatever, that was punishment by
the gods, so to speak. But however, when you talk about the spider within like Aztec culture, you see the naming of the Great Goddess being associated with the spider, and so that from what I understand, is she was
associated with darkness and the underworld. But when you say, oh, she was associated with darkness in the underworld, it was mainly they were attributing her to birth because within the underworld they had nine levels and it was supposed to represent the nine months of gestation, so anything below was to bring forth, and the earth itself was mother, and so whatever came forth, whether it was coming out of the earth or out of a cave or whatever, they
associated that with birth, mother giving and so forth, and so that's why they considered or have a lot of the depictions of the Great Goddess being associated from what I read with spiders, and I think, like her shield has webs on it and stuff like that, So I do remember that. And then so that you know, the Spanish kind of documented that when they first arrived in Mexico around fifteen twenties or something, and then later I
think it was fifteen thirties in Peru. You start to see the or the report of the Nosca lines right, and you see the line the big from up above. You can see the lining within that area of Peru, and you see a spider being associated with a lot of the other morephalllogies that were carved into the side of cliffs. So yeah, it was it was a big deal even to the natives of Latin America or meso America, South America too.
Absolutely.
I want to just jump off of what Lisa has said, which was so great, which was about the Mother and darkness, because I think you see this a lot in TNTRA,
especially like people's misperceptions of like what that means. And I think Lisa's right on where she's saying, it's about birth, it's about the it's the birth canal, it's that it's the it's the outer darkness sort of that you first perceive, but it's not really darkness because there is light in the womb, and there is a sort of luminescence that is within the body, like a bioluminescence that the I
think the baby even sees. So, but when they come into the artificial light, if you're having it specifically I'm thinking in a hospital, then that is really the you know, you're you're piercing the veil kind of. So yeah, I think that her association with darkness is an to know mean, And I think this is true in Buddhism in the sense that she is very much like connected to the
Astarte or Lilith myth. But she's Antinomian only in the way that she's completely nondual, Like she's completely she both accepts and rejects form, but it's sort of neither nor rather than she's not in an extreme. So she is the one who said the first words or spoke the sound, but it's called the sound without view, meaning that it doesn't have like it's not contained by klipa. It's not contained by askonda is what we would call it. It's
there's no aggregation around it. So it's just like a howling wolf or a howling or whistling sometimes is described as whistling. So it's not a word as we would understand, it's it's it's a sound. And that's sort of the reverberation you could say, even of the heartbeat in the womb. There's like that sound and maybe that's what that even is referring to.
Well, there's something there's something you owe me in about, you know, ambush predators, right, I mean, there's it's like you wait for them to be attracted to your your flame or your your your source of light, and then you catch the prey.
You know.
It's and if you think about this Grandmother imagery, it's like you have to be caught in form so that you can experience this life. And so the web or the weaving is sort of like the basis of all material plane things, you know. I mean that's that's a very gnostic view of things. But that's pretty accurate.
I was going to say if Wimer the commentary, Yes, thank you for highlighting that magic. Yes, that is absolutely correct. The spider Woman of the d Wakan pre dates the Great Goddess of the Aztecs, and I believe she leads back into the toll Tech and even before them the ol Macs as well. So you're talking about one hundred BC. You know, that's a long long time ago, and most of these codses that they've read through or whatever have
that indication in there. So yeah, thank you very much for reminding me about that.
Jin What were you saying regarding maybe the whistle or screech or a howl or something like that. It's more primal, right, that's the idea. Yeah, it's the primal sound. It's the primal sound.
It's not the word. But in one way of thinking, her daughter or her great granddaughter, she is the one who create forms the word. So it's like the third cause. Nick, Robbie and I actually spoke about this the other day. So I'm sorry, guys, but the word is considered to be sort of the third or the fourth cause, depending on how you understand the ordering. So yeah, her is just the sound that penetrates the outer darkness. It comes
down forms material reality. But like Buddhism is narcissism, especially like contract Buddha buddhasm. But it's not gnostic and there's no due. It's non it's non dual, there's no we. We we embrace that. There's an idea of the carnal ground and the garden. At the same time, it's just how you perceive of it, or you how you view it. So it's it's really about perspective rather than like being in a fixed way of understanding.
Mmmm.
Either you're caught in the net or you caught the net one of the two.
One thing I do find interesting. I just want to mention real quick that you brought it up and it just popped into my head. With the howling and the wolf. I'm just wondering, like even thinking about like the howl and stuff. I mean, you hear musicians say it, and like I get it, but I also think there's like doesn't necessarily mean you need breaks, but like you know, you'll say, like you know, if it wasn't for the space between notes, that'd be no music, you know, So
that how there's actually not much space. So like, in a sense to me, it's actually more free of form because it's just one long sound without anything breaking it up and changing, you know. So I even wonder if that's like something something to think about.
Yeah, I agree with what Nick just said. It was quite deep and like she is persuading all space. That's one of her like appitats like she is the primordial space that exists within. So just like what Nick said, it's like it's continuous, it's ongoing, there's it fills.
Everything right right stop the vibration, the monochord.
Speaking of sounds and even silence and stuff like that. One of the things that I think is really interesting in older tarot decks, if you look at the major arcana, the death card is the only card that does not have a title.
It doesn't have a name.
And this is actually related to the scorpion because there are some cultures where like the folk sort of like idea was that you did not actually say the scorpions name, that it was an animal that you left unnamed, because they thought that if you named it, if you actually said scorpion, that you're basically invoking death something along those lines, And so you don't say death's name, because otherwise it's going to come for a visit, and you don't say
the scorpions name as well. And these two things are so interlocked with each other that I think that's an interesting correspondence. So there's that whole side of things too, which I think is intriguing and then also too related to just kind of more like folky stuff that has
been like around for such a long time. But I read in one of my books that there are genital mutilation rituals where the glitterists would be cut or snipped, and then the blood that comes from that wound was referred to as the scorpion's venom, and so they made a direct link with the square orpian's venom. And then that blood similarly the exact same thing with circumcision rituals
as well, referring to it as scorpion venom. And so this is something that's been seen at least in a couple of different cultures my understanding from what I recall that it was some African tribes.
We're doing that.
So just to show you the relationship of how deep the scorpionic weave is, you know, once again with the genitals and sex and everything else.
It goes way back.
Well, Lisa, what about the recurve of the coccyx, right, it comes back in sort of like a scorpion stinging itself.
Yeah, on the on the latter part of them. What I was going to say about the scorpion venom. It's it's interesting that you say that because usually most of the sensory part of the genitalia is predominantly neurological. Right, it doesn't it doesn't show to have a lot of capillary systems in terms of bleeding, but a lot of capillary systems for the sake of sensory right. And so if you look at the venom of scorpions, scorpion venom
is neurotoxic. It is not hemotoxic. And so it's interesting that they wouldn't say it's snake venom, but it's scorpion venom, whereas I don't I'm not very familiar with all of the snakes of Africa, because you said that the ritual was practice in Africa. But I do know at least in the Americas, you do have more hemotoxic venom than you do neurotoxic. Not to say it's not here, but in terms of Africa, it would be interesting that they made the distinction between scorpions and not snake.
Well, hemotoxic would be more like vipers, right, it depends.
It depends which viper. Yeah, how they use it because I cobras are neurotoxic, snakes are hemotoxic. You do have girl snakes that are neurotoxic, and then you do have which is the other ones? Jen I'm running. I think there's some in India that are mainly neurotoxic, but you do have some hemotoxic. Most of your mamas are neurotoxic.
Yeah, mamas are definitely neuroto I think mamas actually have all three. Okay, they're just like super like they're just one of those crazy venom ones all correctly.
Well, these are all independently developed venoms too as well, which is really interesting about snakes. Yeah, what about the sea snake? What's the sea snake? Because that's I think that's the key that sea.
Crops majority of those are neurotoxic.
There you go, that would make sense.
I believe neurotoxic. Like I said, neurotoxic is much more popular on the older world versus the New World. Is more humotoxic. I again, I'm very fluent in my in my reptiles. I need to brush upon that. But yeah, from what I remember, do.
You know why it's called herpetology. When herpes is left untreated, it looks like snakes as it erupts from the skin. Who so it makes the little snakes going all through it. So herpes and herpetology goes, you know, back to the same origins.
Well, all for this headless is that that is not considered a snake disease in Chinese medicine, but it is considered a scorpion medicine because of the orientation of the boil.
So like that would be a yang. If you have an uprising inflammation, that would actually be like a more associated with scorpions or centipedes, and so you there's an idea that you use like to treat like so in some of those formulas they will include like pulverized and dried scorpion or pulverized and dried snake, But snake diseases are more of like rough hewn like psoriasis is a snake disease. So I haven't studied enough of the Native American.
Animal classifications, but there is that does also exist in Native American like herbal medicine and Dan Mormon's book he touches on it a little bit, So that would be interesting for someone like I know a few of them, but the snake ones I'm not familiar with.
So it would be interesting to sort of look at that and see if there's a corollary between like venom remedies as well as the animal itself.
I do know, like I spent some time with an Amazonian shaman in Peru, and they also believe in that that the disease resembles the actual animal that cures it. So I mean he even showed us, like, you know, the sting of this bark or bulble and I'm sorry, the sting or the bite of this snake. And he held out, you know, dead snake. You know, they had
the checkerboard or whatever of it. He's like, it's cured by this bark, and then he placed the bark right next to the actual snake and the two corresponded, and so it you know that. I think you hear the one about the kidney breaking up, kidney stones or whatever, and they don't have anything like some aliament with kidney stones, but yet they already knew that these beans helped with kidney stones. So stuff like that that it looks similar
to what the aliment was. So yes, even in me, at least the natives of from Mexico on town.
There's the There's a Bible quote too, Luke ten nineteen that really brings these two.
Jeez together.
And it reads almost like a healing blessing that I give unto you power to tread on serpents and squirret and all and over all the power of the enemy, and nothing shall by any means hurt you.
So it has that so that.
That's so touch because even the shaman himself he said two things. He said, God is very kind to nate the naive mind. And then he said everything on earth God has placed for the purpose of curing so beautiful. Very yeah, it was very It correlates very well.
Exactly correlates.
I hate to leave early, but I have to depart and take some care of some responsibilities and honor to be here with you guys, and I apoloize. Thanks, I'm gonna I'm gonna continue listening as I take care of my stuff.
So good night, everybody. Apologies, you're good, thank you, thank you.
Now, while we're on the subject of the Bible, when you look at when Noah went into the arc, it was in the sign of scorpion, and then it was the great dying or the passing over into the new system. And then also when Jesus as far as Judas, the kiss of Judas that was also said to happen when Scorpio was in the sky, and the sting of the scorpio, it is that you get that kiss. Look that kiss type pattern.
So excellent, No, exactly, yeah, yeah, And deceivers and traders and stuff are are associated with the scorpions and scorpionic things.
The whole thing with.
You know, the cure for different ailments having like a symbolic relationship with whatever it is you're talking about. Some people refer to that you might already know this, but for the audience as doctrine of signatures, and so there's all sorts of amazing examples out there. So it's definitely
the real deal for sure. One of the things regarding venom and least I'd love to hear your opinion about this, But in my symbolic reference books, there's so many examples that I have where they say that back in the day, people used to create a ring of fire around a scorpion and the scorpion would sting itself to death. Now I read this many times, and I've actually made posts about this, like on my Instagram and things like that, and people confirmed and have said, hey, I've seen this for myself.
My grandmother used to do this when I was a kid.
I used to do this people from like you know, Mexico and like Central America and stuff like that, And I have videos. I've found videos of this happening, not with fire, but with a container, like a glass bowl or something like that, and the scorpion is stinging itself. Yet every single mainstream source online, every single source online, says that this is impossible. It doesn't happen. This is only like sort of like urban legend type stuff or
folklore or something like that. And people have had different things to say. They've said, well, if it's surrounded by fire, it's actually so hot that it's kind of like seizing because of just the temperature, and it looks like it's singing itself, but that the venom cannot hurt itself because it creates its own venom. So it's like immune to it, basically. And so I've heard different things from different people and different sort of ideas about what is maybe going on
there or what isn't going on there. If you have any thoughts, I'd just love to hear it.
In terms of physiologically, In terms of scientific literature, I have not seen anything, but I remember my family, my grandmother speaking about that, oh and talking about you know, the little folk whatever that in terms of singing itself. But see, I have also heard that the individual scorpion itself cannot die from its venom. However, you do have courting whenever scorpions made, and they hold each other's singers
away from each other. So apparently they, you know, it is somewhat of a you know, poisonous to each other. So I don't know if it's something individual jin. I don't know if you know anything about that, but I mean, I'm pretty sure you do, but you're just saying that it. I don't recall anything. What I do know about scorpions is that they are one of the few iraqnets that
has remained unchanged. People believe in the fossil record that I believe that in over five hundred million years they have not changed, and so it's one of the few racknets that has remained virtually unchanged evolutionarily speaking. And then they're exoskeleton. You can see it with UV, and I think that that is also more of I guess the defense mechanism as well. So birds obviously if they can see UV, they can spot scorpions. So that's also one of those predator prey dynamics.
Well, I think that's one of the Emperor scorpion, isn't it. I believe there's two different times types that really dominate. It's the brown yellow kind and the black kind. And the black kind is the more UV reactive.
I think both of them are, whereas one of them probably dominates in terms of how much fluorescence they emit.
Gotcha, okay, jin go ahead.
Sorry, thank you, Mario. I just want to say, and they also great job, Lisa, and I will synthesize what something Lisa said with something What Mario said is that there's this idea. So I don't know if the what you scorpion. I thank you Lisa for thinking that I
am so knowledgeable about zology. I'm really not, but it's flattering. Uh, But there's there's an idea in Tantra that the scorpion represents like the the first words or or maybe the yeah, like creative and destructive words, that they both can be contained in the same sort of vessel. So when you speak them, it's sort of like speaking a scorpion into
the world. So if you if you misuse the words, if you misuse the words improperly or without holding to dharmic ideas, the the idea is that the scorpions will come back and sting you, or that they will return to you, or you will be eaten by that kind of wolf slash scorpion queen that I also tweeted so people can go look. And so I think that there's an idea the oath breaker in that, and that that's the corpse she stands on, Like every dikini has a corpse that they stand on, and she stands on the
oath breaker. But it's not just the it's not like an oath breaker as in like you're upholding like a secret society oath. It's it's the oath of the dharmaic rules which we're all subject to. So that's sort of the idea. It's like if you're breaking the covenant that exists with all of us then and using the words of creation or misusing them, then you will suffer the repercussion.
So I think maybe there's even something in the meso American story about that, like, because there seems to be like a power of repelling negative sorcery or turning it backwards or into itself. So I definitely think that there's something there.
Well, I think, on a tangent from what you just said, I think it's important to note that the scorpion has an eye on its tail, and the spiders have eight eyes, and I think that that should talk a lot about the dharmic repercussions of what you're doing, and also it should go directly over to Nick to talk about the eye, because if you think about these things in terms of the number of eyes and how they relate to one another and how they relate to the rest of the world,
that's an interesting correlation, especially if you think about them as being proto brains that would grow into other things from that point, and being one of the oldest creatures of the planet and having an eye on the tail.
I like that I know anything about the eye on the tail.
Times logical real deal thing. They have an eye on their tail.
Yeah.
Wow, damn, that's amazing. I've never heard that before.
Well, think about it. These are the most like deadly creatures in terms of mythology. They've got to have an accurate targeting system or else they're fucked, you know, and that that's their weapon, you know, that the backbiters, and they've got to be able to sting exactly where they want to go.
Wow, that's incredible. I got to look into that, man, that that really is fascinating. So one of the things related to the venom suicide sort of conversation is alchemists have associated scorpio with like the blackening or Negretto step right. And I was just reading too that apparently this concept of scorpion time was a thing for the alchemists as well, and that this was like a major sort of transformative, transformative aspect to whatever it is they were like transmuting
and things like that. And so people have kind of likened this potential suicide dynamic with the scorpion of being able to change things, you know, dynamically and rapidly pretty much right on their own accord. And so I think that that's kind of an interesting sort of thread. And obviously what is death right, It's a huge change, you know, and so you're going through major, major cycle upon death, and so in that way too, I kind of see it that the scythe of death itself is not unlike
the stinger of the Scorpion. And there's actually huge correspondence I see with Saturn and and kind of like father Time type figures and stuff like that with with Scorpio. So there's like interchangeability, you know, kind of between these two ideas.
I would say.
The other thing I was going to bring up too that I think is interesting is a lot of people have said that Virgo, Libra, and Scorpio were once considered like one huge constellation and then kind of like a sword, Libra being introduced almost split up this huge constellation to three smaller constellations, which is fascinating too, because Virgo and Scorpio both have glyphs that look like m's right, and so Virgo looks like a glyph with an M with
like a fish. Some people have different opinions about what that is. To me, it's opposite Pisces. So I think there's a piss and sort of dynamic with that, it's almost like her child, you know, it's almost like Christ Virgo and Christ or something. And then with Scorpio you have the glyph with the M with the sort of like stinger or to me, it almost reminds me too.
Of the arrow of Mars, the glyph for Mars.
Right.
But you have these two signs and one sign, Virgo is on the light side or day side of the zodiac, and then Scorpio is on the night side of the zodiac. And what do you know, they're opposite of each other.
On both sides of libra the scales, so it's almost like they weigh each other out. So it's almost like the light Mother and the Dark Mother or something along these lines.
Absolutely, you nail there, because the M is one of the oldest glyphs for feminine energy.
Yep, absolutely, mom, right, mama, so the waters, yes, exactly right. Yeah, so I've heard two M. I don't know if it's exclusively the only sort of letter phonetically, I think so where it's more internal mmm. You know, it's almost more receptive in and of itself, right, versus you know a lot of other sounds more projective, more masculine.
Mem is the thirteenth letter of these album.
That's right there you go, and that's the leak that corresponds with also the death card, the thirteenth card. So yeah, exactly, there's a hole that thirteen weave is strong.
Well in the with the thirteens, you know, you have going back to Jesus in the twelve Disciples, you have Washington, d C. With the thirteen Colonies. You have this perpetual idea of death and rebirth based around the number thirteen.
Yeah, exactly.
And then I think of the American Eagle, like this is one of the expressions of Scorpio as the eagle. Yeah, right, And so that to me in and of itself is kind of intriguing too. Right, So you look on the dollar bill or the seal of the US thirteen arrows, thirteen stars, thirteen olives, and thirteen leaves, and then literally that eagle right there emblematic of Scorpio potentially.
Well, I think there's a lot of yin yang energy and a lot of different kinds of polarities when it comes to Scorpio and eagles, sky and earth, because there is definitely an earthy feel to both spiders and scorpions
like it's very very much in form in matter. They have exoskeletons, you know, And I think that that aspect is really kind of one of the things people don't want to look at in their own shadow is going to be about how they create their webs, how they have their influence, and also who they're fighting the most, because if you've noticed, I think a lot of narcissistic people always hurt the people closest to them, you know, and that's not an accident. That goes back to very
very deep psychology. And another aspect would be the idea that spiders have pets. I don't know if you guys have seen these videos, but some spiders will actually have pets from other species and they'll feed them and they'll take care of them, and they'll you know, treat them right. What would happen in human evolution if giant spiders made humans their pets.
I love that, man, I've never heard that, the spider pet thing. I'm gonna look into that too.
I will say a friend of mine had a tarantula and he kept like a little spiny, prickly pair and you know, like a little I don't know what you call just a cactus or whatever spines and he would feed the tarantula, and the tarantula would place his prey on the spines almost like a cupboard. So I remember witnessing that behavior of a tarantula and you're thinking, wow, that's that's that's a lot of planning on that. But I was going to say headless to your point about
the eye on the singer. I'd never heard of that, so I looked it up really quick, and apparently the entire skin of the scorpion is a photo is a photoreceptor where it has many photoreceptors on the skin, and it is referred to as the universal eye.
Wow, shit, I'm not think about horseshoe crabs. Horshoe have proto eyes on the outside of their shells, and also that goes back into the crab. You know, they shed their shells, so there has to be some sort of ocular component to them.
Yeah, which is a photoceptor, which is the retina. You know what where is where the photoceptors reside in the retina majority of them. And then you said the horseshoe crabs, some scorpions and some spiders do not contain hemolytic type properties. They contain more of a cyano or like sano hemolytic whatever the what is it the copper based blood that horse crab have, right.
They also OCTOPI.
That sorry at least I didn't mean you. But the color is really significant, I think, and that you're saying the ciani like the the I'm calling it the fluids. So those biological fluids like that matches perfectly with like the colors that you would see dripping down if you think of cabala like your sewed, it's that dark purple almost like very And then copper is obviously very closely related to net SoC or venus. So yeah, you have like some really interesting yeah.
And then you have a lot of guanning or guan you know, like in bats, but you have a lot of guanning being excreted in their excrement as well.
I do.
I remember them shining fluorescent or UV light on the droppings of scorpions, and so they do glow as well. So you have a lot of very alien like properties I think, in my opinion of these scorpions, and considering that they were also worshiped by the natives in Mexico as well as all the way into Central and South America for a really long time.
Well, think about the structure of the horseship crab with that law long spine that comes out of its back end that could curve up, you know, into that scorpion like uh massage, and then you know, everything wants to become a crab for some reason. So you've got Scianus and which is just you know, all these different species
end up becoming sort of this crab idea. So there's there's a really interesting combination between you know, these arachnids and these crab like beings and they all sort of come from the same sort of route and they're just branching off and coming back into one another over millions and millions of years.
Wow, the.
I thing, man, that that is.
That's so interesting, dude, That's one of the more interesting facts I've heard in a little while actually.
Thinking about you know, how many how many times you see crabs and lobsters using occultism, then.
If that goes back to any of that, that's just weird.
Yeah, it is.
Have you still one that for a minute?
And well, I was also going to say the spiders they've also found that the exoskeleton actually allows them to survive the void of space, so there is some theory that they've actually traveled between worlds.
You know, that's interesting.
Yeah, I think the alien thing is really relevant, actually, Lisa, you know, it makes total sense.
You know the crossover, you know it is it's kitan. Kitin makes up the outside of a crab, and it also makes the outside of a mushroom. Mushrooms have kitan on the outside of them. And so what they talk about is these spores from mushrooms being spread throughout the universe, and that is like the seed of life. As they rotate in the sun's heat, they'll actually start to spin and then they'll spin throughout the entire universe and spread
kitan throughout everything. So you've got insects made of kiten, We've got fingernails that are very very close to kitan. And then the bark of a tree, as we were talking about with these different venoms earlier, is also made out of a kitan like substance, which is you know this, what's it called tree bark? What's it made out of?
It's the same thing as cardboard, I forgot, but they put it in all these supplements, right, They cellulars cellulose kitan and our fingernails are, you know, like all one molecule off from one another. It's so close it's ridiculous.
I just wanted to add something that Lisa said that was really interesting that I forgot. I think also Headless said something about it is that scorpions are not even though yes, I know in Western astrology it is more associated with the earth element, but really they're associated with the sky element, so like a vadra or fire. That's more of a tondric idea is that they're they it's and fire is the element of transmutation, so things must
pass through to come into form. So it's like a pre eminent destruction I think is a way to describe it, Like something has to be destroyed or die before it can appear in.
Our world, you know. And what you're saying is very correlative correlative because they can detect UV light. They are mainly associated with being night creatures, right, they are nocturnal whatever because you can detect or they can see UV and better scene at night. But in I believe it's the earlier the Oulmes and the and the toll text. They worship the scorpion as being a midnight sacrifice or used in midnight sacrifices. So it's interesting that you said
another you know, associated with with that. And then scorpions are obviously associated with old desert or dry or equatorial type habitats. You do not find many in the latter parts of the pole like towards the poles, there's none in it, but you do see predominance around the equatorial habitats than you do in you know, extreme latitudes.
The point about the dryness, I think is really interesting if you look at it from more maybe not o fight gnostic, but maybe just a broader gnostic cosmology and the idea of the Barbello and the sort of dried out grandmother emanator husk like we have very similar to what we have in Buddhism. So I think that's corollary. I think that it's like a it's the spent seeds,
so all they can be is a little dry. They can't be it can be replenished, but it's it requires, as I said, destruction before it can really be transformed.
Mantis shrimp that goes into the eye to because mantis shrimp have all those different kinds of cones and rods that can pick up so many different colors that are almost unimaginable to human beings.
Yeah, and they're vicious. Oh yeah, yeah, yeah.
The the midnight sacrifice thing is so interesting to me. I've heard that.
In occultism that sometimes midnight is a reference to essentially the pole, the world axis, polar northern symbolism, And so when people have referenced a midnight sun as an example that this is actually it's more of a like a black sun, sort of dynamic or something along these lines. So I just thought I would throw that out there. I don't know if that's what they had intended or whatever.
You know, you're talking about, you know, midnight and all of that. And I think Nick and I have talked about potentially one day, talking about covering the different charges of the pineal associated with morning, noon, evening, and midnight. And I believe in facing different directions or whatever, and I believe it is during a full moon at midnight
that you face north. And there is some sort of literature talking about how you can charge your pioneal by facing north into the moon's light, because a light from the moon itself does feed into the pineal. From a
biological standpoint, and charging. So that's that's very interesting to talk about how you have almost a midnight sacrifice and then you have that association with pineal and then again scorpio scort scorpions their exoskeleton have photoreceptors, and the pineal itself they have discovered, have photo themselves.
Well, right, when you think about it, I think, as we've sort of covered these emanations and evolutions, you got to think of the care pace or the outside shell as being related to the aura. And so there is sort of like this idea that the aura is this
vision as well as being visible. So I think if you're going to be doing spell work with this stuff, you have to remember that that aura is like the ancient care pace, you know, especially when it comes to our relationship with other people, because that's sort of like how we feel them out, that's sort of the vibe, you know. So even though it's very earthy from a evolutionary perspective, from this perspective, this is how we collect information from the people and things around us.
I want, I'm not beat a dead horse here. So we're talking about scorpions, We're talking about how they are the universal eye. We're talking about how they have remained unchanged. So if they have lasted, if you believe in this, I do. But so I'm just gonna spit out there.
If you believe that they've been around for more than five hundred million years, and you believe the DNA has memory, then that means that they saw what at least two extinctions and they survived and they're able to store that event or memory in their DNA over and over and over. And now you're calling them the Universal Eye, and now you're saying that they can detect all kinds of things in terms of all of the electromagnetic information from the Sun.
Yeah, that's right.
Huge symbolism, symbolic what have you scorpion.
The crayon marking its across the Earth.
One hundred percent. I just want to add something, Lisa that you said. It was really interesting. It sparks some like a memory. I guess of the Midnight Sacrifices is that the goddess that we spoke about, or I spoke about at the very beginning, Matongi, she is a Chandhali goddess. So she's associated with the Grove Sacrifices exactly like what you said, Like what would happen at midnight. There's even an old tntra and a Katari princess was actually caught
doing this ritual. Interestingly, it was a newspaper clipping of it. So you find eight different I guess men that fit a specific archetype birth date very specifically, and you have relations with all eight and then you perform whatever the ritual is and you and then you then you get a boon from that goddess. But it has to happen at a specific time, which is midnight, has to happened in the night in the specific location. So I think it's very interesting about that. And then the idea of
the moon phases and where you would face. This is also related to the growth worship which the goddesses are called the Nitya goddesses, meaning that there are particular faces of the void. That's how it's what Nitya also means. It can mean eternal or void, but it also refers to an internal thing which is just below your lungs, this kind of like void emptiness that exists like in a pocket, almost like in your body, so it can
also refer to that. And then the Nitia goddesses are nine in number, so whatever the moon phase is, you face that direction and then perform the ritual for that goddess or that face.
Gotchas Man.
I was going to talk a little bit about how evolved folk magic is because it takes all of these different elements and just because it's a different sort of a language and expressing it, it's still the same thing. And so the folk magic is like tapping into this root that you know, all of these different elements sort of play into. But it's not immediately obvious why they would because it's using very simple language.
Now, Interestingly, in the in regard to scorpions and scorpio, when you look into the mythri cult when they sacrifice the yearly Bull, there's a scorpion that is actually down at the testicles of the bull that's stinging the testicles as the bull is dying to basically encourage the release of the generative force into the cosmos to revivify. And again we're talking about the idea of dying, passing over and revivifying, so death and rebirth once again.
Yeah, this is my theory.
I think the baculum, because most mammals have a penis bone. I think the baculum is the original magic wand. If you think about it, everybody's run across a skeleton in the woods before, right, and what's always missing from that skeleton is the penis bone. So if h Man is looking at these skeletons, they're thinking, hold on a second, when I killed this animal, there was a penis bone. There's no more penis bone. Something went after this thing.
It's highly valued in nature. So maybe the magic wand comes from the baculum ideal. If you look at the the raccoon vaculum, right, it's very much scorpio, it's got the scorpion curve, and it's also you know, very straight at the end. There's there's this kind of magical element to the baculum and this generative principle that I think feeds into the idea of the magic wand. And also he's flying broom.
For sure, No exactly, right man, Yeah, the fallus is a magic wand. You know they're they're one and the same. It's energy being sent forth right, right, That's that's what the wand represents, that thought, the fallas represents. I'm so glad you brought up the Mithraic connection because I have that in my notes too. It's perfect symbolically. It's amazing because when Scorpio is rising, the bowl is falling right right, and so there's a few things that operate this way.
So because Scorpio is opposite Taurus, that dynamic is there. Oriyan isn't too far away from Taurus as well, and that's the hunter and he got stung by a scorpion and that was like he was a mighty hunter, but the scorpion is what did him in and so so the same sort of dynamic when the scorpion is rising, Oriyan is falling and kind of relate to this.
Actually, So in Taurus you have two stars that make up the eyes of the bowl. One is al de Baron and one is Ayen.
Al de Baron is like this huge, massive royal star and then Aen actually literally means I, which is interesting. So you have these two stars there. And what I've heard from this astrologer, his name is ross Ben. I don't know if you guys are familiar with his work, but he's an interesting dude. And he got really into all things related to Philadelphia history and like the founding of this country and like all sorts of stuff right,
and he has a really great presentation. I know he's talked about this a number of times over the years, but one of the things he's tracked is potentially the Declaration of Independence literally being signed at the moment that Al de Baron is rising over the eastern horizon, and that that was a deliberate encoding that the founding or Benjamin Franklin was trying to do when he signed it, which is interesting because that's when Scorpio is also falling.
So again, just the thirteen Colonies and the thirteen business and just the fact that there's that sort of relationship I think is kind of intriguing.
And the Eagle and as it relates to Scorpo and stuff like that. So something to chew on.
El de Bora.
Guy hel de Born is also known as the bulls eye, and it's where we get the word and term bull's eye from as well.
Yeah, yeah, totally.
And then even kind of opposite, not directly, it's not the like polar opposing sign, but Sagittarius being right next to Scorpio centaur. My understanding is that centaar means bull killer and so so there is that dynamic too that that tar in centaur means like bull taurus. So the bulls eye, you can say that Sagittarius. There's a number of claims symbolically of where Sagittarius is pointing a zarrow, but one of the claims is that he's pointing it at the ball across on the elliptic.
That would make sense to have that as being the entropy killer. Right, So, as you hit the bulls eye, what does sid mean? It means missing the mark. But when you're hitting the mark, if you're hitting the bullseye, that's when you're killing entropy.
Right there you go.
Yeah, man, this crew is awesome, by the way, I really I appreciate everyone's insights.
I just want stuff. It's got me thinking too much now right, well, like I'm going to get lost and rabbitbles now after this.
Well, there's so many That's what I love about these different things. It's the power of association. Everybody has these associations that are just hardwired into our minds because of all of our experiences and stuff, and then once we bring them out, we find that it connects to so many other different minds. It's beautiful thing.
I think I said it on Gin Show I said, in some ways, I said, it's almost like an audio version of Crowley seven seven seven When I have this many people on. Everybody has their own association and their wrong way of looking at it, and you just get.
The layers of symbols.
Yeah.
Yeah, for sure.
Instead of a book, you just got the engineer. Yeah, he is taking this all in and he's just imagining all of these different numbers and how to construct the thing. It's beautiful, I see working.
Yeah, what are you thinking about it? You got anything you want to add? TJ do this stuff.
Yeah, I'm just well, I guess I'm like kind of embodying like that scorpio energy too, where I'm just kind of like sitting in the back and I'm I'm like, yeah, I'm the spider.
Weave in.
We've in the conversation in the background. One thing on the Jamatria to bring up a bit is spider uh equals seventy one and that's the twentieth prime. That's like not really that relevant, but spider matches with Babylon thought, O'Ryan, virgo, pisces, and sperm, which were all things that were brought up as far as explaining the Spider and the spider just having to do with that. Like, I think Babylon is a good a really good match there too, because it's
like the it kind of is the reality. It's like the Tower of Babel and we babble on we speak, right, it fits with that kind of thing. And then even with nick uh vibin on that and the scorpion, scorpion equals one to oh nine. One hundred and nine is the seventeenth prime number.
So there we go.
We got the number.
Seventeen, and then scorpion matches with reduction, octopus, sucubis, labyrinth, magic eight ball, wormholes, straw man, acid, diamonds, thatch is what I had off the top of my head kind of thing. So it's just cool how it all connects. And then on like the alien thing, like the scorpion, the spider, and the octopus, these eight legged things are all very alien vibe, like it's not just one of them, like they all have that kind of.
Nig to them.
What if seventeen? What if seventeen is the last part of that trinity, So you've got eight, thirteen and seventeen. I don't know, there's there's a there's actually there.
Yeah, there's a definitely connection there. It's this, it's you know, it's the star falling onto the path, the light traveling from the path from n'saw to code, and then it's shooting her arrow into the paths and then she ends up facing Tipperreth looking at Gabera, or she's looking at Tipprith from Gerbera. So there's like this girl there that's not like an archer. She's holding like Mario's talking about, like the Sagittarius, and but it's all being rectified at
the moon, so it's all like happening. So it is like a Babylon.
So and TJ.
I don't want to call you out, but you are have a pink background. And as I've said to Nick, pink is the color of synthesis in decoherence. So it is a it is a spectral color. It doesn't exist, but it's something that we construct with our minds. So it's very much related to consciousness or akasha or space or void, which is something that we've perennially. I guess you've been. We've been all referencing. So there's something really interesting there.
Well, that's the thing we're talking about. Decoherence. Eight would be the decoherence of seven, thirteen would be the decoherence of twelve, and then seventeen would be the decoherence of the double eight sixteen, sixteen.
It is also the number of creations. So I just want to I forgot to say that it's decoherence, but it's also creative in its capacity because it's the capacity for love, right, that's the whole idea.
Gen You just spark something I totally forgot to say about scorpions. They do have. They do practice parth genesis in that whenever there's not a mate around, they can reproduce asexually. Granted they we clone of it of themselves, but.
They do.
The female does is able to participate in part the genesis, and.
I believe again the version.
I believe the courtship within aside from them holding each other's stingers and so forth, I do. I think it's very elaborate. From what I remember. I think there is like a thumping to where the female feels the vibrations of the male. There's this whole it's like it's it's really long and elaborate. I do know that some of them will subdue the female again, but it's it's so elaborate and so intricate that it it almost like transcends just the fact that it's you know, just an eracnid.
Why the long you know, courtship. So it's very interesting. I do I do remember that. I don't know the specifics of it.
But they dance with each other, they like grab claws and around.
And it's very.
Wow.
That's incredible, the fact that parthenogenesis is a thing with the scorpion, and then Virgo is right again opposite on the other side of Libra.
I mean, that is that's amazing.
Something somebody said just reminded me of the fact that Scorpio season is when we have Halloween and the Day of the Dead. So the idea is that the veil is thin, you know, and Libra has you know, it's equal parts day and night. It's bringing in the fall.
So like the dark side of the Zodiac. And then to me, Scorpio is like one of the prime symbols that really embodies sort of like the dark side of the Zodiac, if you will, and you know, crossing the abyss or the other side or you know, whatever it is you want to say, all things related to the Dark Mother and you know this idea too. There's a
lot of veil symbolism kind of going on. But what veils reveals, what conceals reveals, right, and so things are generated in the dark, you know, you put a seed into the ground, right, Mother Earth, and so the dark mother thing is so beautiful to me personally, kind of related to that too. In Scorpio, you have Antaras another royal star, which is the heart of the Scorpion, and
that star is brilliant. I mean when I used to stargaze way more, I always used to see that that is like the most flickery star you can find, like in the sky basically. And I used to have a P nine hundred and so that's like the camera where you can zoom in like crazy. I can't remember the magnification on it, but it's like absolutely nuts. And one of my favorite things was to zoom in on Antera's because it's just like this little light show. It's almost kind of like a little rainbow.
It's warm.
They compare it to Mars, which is kind of interesting too because al Deboron has a lot of symbolism related to Mars as well. Actually, you know, they both kind of lean towards the warmer side of things and have
symbolism you know that corresponds with that. And Mars used to be like the traditional rulership of Scorpio too, so there's that, but there is a heart dynamic with the scorpion as well too, and I think in Terror's is kind of one of those keys that you can look into to find out more about it.
Something you said, Mario was really interesting to me about how you say it's the dark mother. So in Buddhism that would represent the first turning and then the subsequent other turnings. Yes, she reappears in a younger form maybe in the last turning, so the third turning, but for the fourth turning she has to rectify as again the daughter. So there is something really interesting there and Mars does
play a big part in that. And I think Pop twenty two that path from just said to Gebura that thing that is synthetically perfect in a way, like Lisa was even hinting at this, not him, she said, part in the genesis something I've been thinking a lot about personally, and just this idea of like what like if if the perfection happens at tip Erith, like that sort of green, harmonious color. But then we also say there's this dualistic property where it's control, Like there's a control because there's
an illusion. It's not necessarily control as in handcuffs or shackles, maybe because we can consciously take them off if we want to have an quit to say. And but you know, like what is sort of the reflection of that? That's so I think there's something in that where it's like, is that path in the genesis? Is that what that story is kind of talking about. Is this sort of like a like a sort of thing that we know
that we don't acknowledge, like a hidden truth? And because Mario bar even brought up the world card, well that in Kapala means that's the path of truth. That's like that that's what connects us to the moon, that's what connects us to Babylon. So something really interesting also about that, like is that the truth of humanity? If you want to take it to a speculative place, is it this parth in agenesis, this creation of the as my friend
Sashi would call it, the crystal Millennium Kingdom? Like, is that the truth is like something that we just don't know.
Yeah, I mean personally, I think the universe is feminine. I think the cosmos is feminine, you know, And so even Virgo. Virgo is the queen of heaven, but then also the queen of Earth. So it's like Virgo is above and also below. And to me, the way I look at it, and maybe I've been way too influenced from like the Gnostic creation story or something like that, which there's a lot of parts of modern narcissism I
don't really care for. But the idea that Sophia basically had this inner light that she created or birthed on her own accord, so she the universe itself, is also a virgin mother. Basically, she has no equal, there was no partner, There was no masculine presence until the demiurge base was created right the sun. And so to me
that makes all of the sense in the world. It also makes sense that men are basically masculine women pretty much, and that the ovaries descend into testicles, right, and so every embryo starts off as feminine female and then turns into a male basically. So it's like the way I put it is, we do live in a man's world with the caveat that it exists within a feminine universe.
That's the deal.
Well, I think the feminine wouldn't always be the path of parthen in genesis because of its plasticity. Oh yeah, if you look at all the different species that have parthenin genesis, it always comes through the female. It's not coming through the male, and it is not meant.
I mean, I hope nobody gets that offended about that, you know, like they were all inherently female. It's just if you think of it an evolutionary terms, it's easier to defeminize the brain versus already have everything there. So you have the entire brain that is such a complex and so many different indocrine organs are going to have to talk to each other throughout months and throughout whatever. It's easier to just turn off the lights versus create
all of this. And so that's I think that's what happens. Evolution is always taken the path of least energy needed, and that's all that is, right, I mean, that's kind of how I view it.
Well, And if you go back into the mysteries and the creation stories of the Egyptians and Sumerians, there's always this idea of the shadows swimming in the darkness, that is essentially that mother that you know, divine feminine force of you know what is possible and.
Right, Yeah, totally.
Even if you look at a strength card, I see the strength card is basically being it's showing you the relationship between two signs, Virgo and Leo. So that is Virgo taming her child. Basically you're looking at mother and child. Who's in control there, it's the woman, it's the feminine right.
And so even when you look at some versions of Leo, which would be the sun, right, the only sign that actually is ruled by the sun, like in the Dendera zodiac, which I know that's like a Greek like the you know they took from the Greeks at that point in time and things like that. But Leo actually it's his tail is being held by a woman, and the little woman actually has a flail in her hand, so she
is controlling the lion. This is just like another nod to this whole entire relationship in my opinion of like who's really running the show? Who has to me more magical qualities to them? Men have to go out of their way to learn about the mysteries and tap into that side of them. So it's way more natural for women to be tapped into that, even just the mysteries themselves, which scorpio is a sign that's really related to the
mysteries and initiation as well. Right, And so to me, the mysteries themselves, that is feminine, you know, it's not masculine, right, it's way more receptive and things like that, And to me, that's a beautiful thing. And a lot of these lodge systems and mystery schools and stuff like that, a lot of them it goes back to feminine goddess type stuff, you know, not necessarily the masculine.
Right.
In Rome, by the time Kybell had basically moved in from Phrygia, she became essentially taken as the mother of all the gods, and all of the mystery systems were incorporated under the Mother Kybelle.
Right, it's about the preservation of energy, and the receptacle nature of it is the preservation of energy. So on all these different levels, including spiritual, it's the preservation. It's the filling of the cup that takes on these essences. And so it would make sense to me that preservation of energy would be a feminine aspect. Again, it's like the net is set and then all the rest of the energy flies into it. They don't have to go out, they don't have to. Men waste a lot of energy.
We are the number one energy wasters in the universe. But you know, again that's necessary for expansion. At the same time, we've got the inclusionary force. If you look up the water Wizard, right, the guy who was working on the Nazi bell. Somebody helped me out here. He's talking about the implosive force versus the explosive force. Implosive
force would be the feminine energy. It would be like the FI energy moving inward versus the explosive force, which would be the mask energy, which would be wasting all of that radiation into the universe instead of preserving it.
Right dude, yeah, exactly. It reminds me of what I learned about involution versus evolution in school. We're always just taught about evolution. We're not taught about involution.
And what that is.
The case could be made, in my opinion, that the universe actually is involved, meaning that it receded unto itself. It receded into itself, which is actually way more Saturnian. Oftentimes people refer to the Saturnian as being more restrictive or contractive, which is more polar once again versus the
Jubiterarian expansion, projective, masculine. Right, and so it's possible that whatever we're living within it, actually we're within it basically, and then within that there's room to actually have expansion, right.
I will just I can't believe I'm going to be the one to say this, but I'm going to. I think there's a dude's rock sort of angle that even I don't think anyone's denigrating men, but I just think that there is something interesting if you look at the original suffraettes Ra and some of the Shrevigia texts, and also some of the College Troker teachings, that the rectification of the what I call the daughter, but obviously we
can call her also the mother. I think it's interesting if you call her a virgin mother, it requires the son, and it also requires the father. Even in many Gnostic texts and even in hypothesis, and even in the Epinoia of Nurea, it said that she contains the mind of the father and the love of the mother or the heart of them, so it but it also requires the son. So it's like it's a dialectical synthesis. Is a perfection
you could say, like a thurgical perfection. It's not. It's nondual in the sense that I think that that's the better a personal approach to it is to approach it mondually, because I think that there's something more interesting about that, rather than fixing it into view saying like oh, hard masculine, hard feminine, and this is and the two things will you know never be one, instead of saying it's like a hermaphroditic, I think it's actually complementary rather than a polarity.
Right, Well, from my perspective, I would I would add that the feminine is far more utilitarian, which means far colder. Right, You don't get that expansiveness. It closes itself off from the outside, so it is it's not necessarily a purely preservational. It cuts off what is unnecessary. It's a utilitarian So that is kind of the downfall of that motherly energy or that spiral inward is it is very cold. That's where you get the dark mother coming out of Well, there's that angle list too.
I'll just say that list that of a you know, a flower can ride the dragon, so I'll just say that, so there is an expansive element that the mother can take on.
To kind of go based on Jen had me thinking about this in that So just to kind of go back a little bit, when you fertilize an egg, all eggs of all females are X all of them there. None of them are hy and so you already start with the basis of a female embryo, right, and so when you have parthogenesis, you're not getting any hybrid vigor, you're not getting any polymorphisms, you're not getting any genetic drifts, you're not getting any kind of variation in genetics, and
so you are not essentially moving the species forward. If anything, you were holding them still because any kind of parthogenesis is a clone of the mother. There is no very there is no additional half contribution from the father or from the son. You're basically kind of like, Okay, well, you know, no one came around. I never had a suitor. We didn't you know, made I didn't find one. But I'm going to put forth clones of myself to at
least propagate enough. Hopefully out there they themselves can find a son or a father or a male and so that's all that is. It's not like, oh, we don't need men. That that has nothing to do with it. If anything, life itself and nature itself requires the duality for propagation and what's it called preservation of the species itself.
The ultimate power in the universe is the pause button, because when you can pause and just stay in stasis, then you can flourish again once that masculine energy has returned to the system, right, And so that that parthen in genesis female energy is the pause button. This is the survival mechanism. It cuts away all that is unnecessary. It cuts away all that is joy and purity and you know, expansive and loving all this stuff outside. It says pause. And if you think about it, think about
UFO experiences. When you're looking at the UFO, what do they hit the pause button? You don't get to move, You're stuck in that stasis layer and then whatever happens they call it lost time. Right, you know there is that element there of lost time when it comes to parthen in Genesis and this female energy which you know it's communism, right, because communism thinks about hitting the pause. But we need to stop it here here and no further, there's no more march of history. We will stop it here.
This is the preservation of all energy. It's like, it doesn't work that way, people. You got to think outside of that because you need that male expansive to actually have the joy that comes along with that Jupiterian energy.
You know, I actually think this could be a great conversation to continue at another time. Yeah, gender symbolism, the nature of what we're talking about, Jen, what you brought to the table, duality, non duality, this trying sort of thing.
I always think of Mercury.
Mercury is like one of my favorite sort of like I don't know's it's a planet and like the deities associated with Mercury mean a lot to me, right, And mercury obviously has this androgenous nature, but there's a triune aspect even to that, right, And so yeah, exactly right, And so there's a lot to chew on here with this conversation, for sure. And this is something that I would say even traditionally for me, I've struggled with the chicken or the egg sort of thing, you know, and what came first?
What's more important or least important? Are they equal?
Is you know all this type of stuff Like it's just like a continual sort of like conversation in my mind basically because I see aspects of all of the things that everyone's bringing up today.
Yes, well we did talk about doing mercury eventually next, so I mean we could we could work in that.
Aspect then maybe when we talk about that.
Unfortunately, due to Tom, I'm gonna have to wrap this up in a few minutes at least I'm supposed to be on another show actually right now. So was there anything that anybody wanted to cover like real quick that was like left out or that they wanted to say?
At the end, I have to correct something. I said that the one hundred and nine was the seventeenth prime. I got my stuff mixed up seven to numb. The word seventeen equals one hundred and nine. Oh, it's just not the seventeenth prime. But the word seventeen matches a scorpion. And then one hundred and nine is the twenty ninth prime, and twenty nine has this kind of plutonic and mood kind of element.
To it, which we don't really have time to get into.
But anything else from anybody else.
I thought that was great ToJ I just want to say that that's something really interesting. I want to talk about that later.
One thing. I just want to say. Eight would be cloth though, that would be the spinner, Thirteen would be Lachesis, which would be the measurer the you know, the massive cycles. Then seventeen would be atropos, which would be the cutter. Thanks going back into that scorpio energy, right.
Jin, nothing else to add, but this is a great time. Thank you guys.
Yeah, hell yeah, helly Jin, Lisa, Robbie, you want to add anything before we rep it it?
Oh, I just think it was a great conversation.
Oh yeah, yeah, no, shut it off. Yeah, there's so many things that I got. I'm just stuck in my head. I'm still like stuck from like thirty minutes ago about shit.
So I said, I mean we could go more into the octopus, the orthropod kind of the underworld, you know. But yeah, great, great subject.
Hell yeah yeah, hopefully I will say I love.
The redundancy throughout all cultures of all timelines. Yeah, two species, Yeah, actually transcend time space.
I like that.
Welcome and thank you to all so much, and thank you Nick for inviting me and letting me.
Oh definitely, Yeah, this was awesome. That's why I want to get so many people together. I thought this was amazing. Thank you, Thank you all for really a great night and a whole lot of information. And I hope you know, the listeners, you should definitely get something out of this. I hope you know I'll give you things to think about. I definitely got a bunch of things to think about,
especially with like symbolism and taro and all sorts of stuff. Now, uh so again, yeah, thank you all your everybody here on the show. Their links will be in the bottom.
Yeah.
That's the end of another Occult Rejects and thank you everybody in the chat.
That's what's up. And until the next one, everybody be well later
M