Scientology and Battlefield Earth with Rare Candy

You see something's going to happen. What What's going to happen?

What help? Welcome to the Occult Rejects in this episode. I got myself and I got JJ Vance, not the Vice President. I got Heidi, and I got Jim the Ninja with me today. Uh. JJ, you want to let everybody know what's up and where they can find yourself if they haven't heard of you before. Oh, look like you might a froze.

Uh yeah, I got some interwebs connectivity issues at the moment. My starlink Grimlin's reacting up. But as always, Nick, I appreciate the invite.

Looking forward to the.

Conversation scientology stuff. I'll run Hubbard stuff right riding my wheelhouse right. My ally said, I'm looking forward to that JJ Vance, host of Operation GCD, but more importantly not the vice president. Definitely looking forward to the conversation with Jen and Heidi. Is always great to see you fellow Occult Rejects and Glenn.

Great great meeting. You're looking forward to the conversation absolutely.

Thank you very much, sir, and Jena Ninja. Let everybody know where they can find all your stuff as well.

Thanks boss, mister Nudity three okay. So you can find me on Twitter at with Comrie Born to w Uko and g Reborn. My show's stresshold Saints. You can find it on Spotify and Apple, and of course our Gray Lodge spaces are also on YouTube now. So it just launched a new metafiction series called Welcome to Hava Boria. So we are literally exploring the American nastic story or what that could be or what that is. So yeah, if you're interested in metafiction, metamagic and meta history, that's

Song awesome, No, thank you, thank you sir. And last but not least, Heidi, what's going on? Oh you know everybody? Sorry, No, you're not, you're not. I thought you were first. Oh you're good.

He's messing with me. I'm like, hello, I know, Hello, I'm Heidi, love of the Unfiltered Rice. I do sound like I've got a cold, because I do, and me and my asthma are going to be fighting it out with these inhalers, not smoker like through this whole series, So.

Try not to die. That's what's up.

You can find me out Unfiltered, ricepodcast dot com and everywhere podcasts are served. And that's all for me. Thank you for having me. I'm excited to have be a part of the panel.

Of course, very happy to have you here as well. And last, well, last one, not least finally to the guests, we got Glenn from Ray Candy podcast. Sir, please let everybody know what what you deal is. Please, everybody know what you deal is and where they can fund your show.

Please, I want everyone to know what my deal is. How much time you got?

Yeah, no, you could find on one half of the podcast Rare Candy we are. We talk about a lot of stuff today. I think the specialty will be fiction, literature. That's why I believe, that's why I was tapped on today. But we talk about pharma, we talk about life. We just like to screw around a little bit too. It's whatever we feel like for the week, which much to the sugar in of our audience. Sometimes they want you

Rare Candy dot substack dot com.

That's where my co host Si writes a series called Bob's Red Pill, really good writing on there, and then that's where our premium episode feed is. We're just read to find all of the episodes of Gain of Fiction, which is my fiction podcast that I specialize in on there. So it's kind of a bunch of little nesting doll situations. But Rare Candy Pod one on Twitter, Rare Candy Pod on Instagram, wreck Candy dot substack dot com.

We awesome, Thank you very much, and I'll definitely include all your show notes in the bottom.

Yeah.

Uh so yeah, battlefield Battlefield Earth. That's what we're gonna be talking about, right, Yeah, yes, Unfortunately, I know that was one of kind of like this topic that Jen was really excited for and hopefully he'll make it back, but there he is. But yeah, and I do know that is associated with l Ron Hobart, so hence JJ and we're gonna talk about some scientology and gin you made it back, Thank you very much. So I guess

Or so I have a morbid curiosity with things I know are bad, so I want I like reading like torturous tones of literature. Brothers Karramtsov like things like that. I love reading those because it is I'm a former marathon runner, so there's like this torturous element of like, wow, I never want to do that again. But then like two months later, you're like, think about my next one? And that was the end of the season one. I

What could possibly be in there?

But then my morbid curiosity was like what if what if he has the sauce? Like what if that's like how el Ron Hubbard?

I was like, maybe he's like a really good sauce.

Sorry, oh I don't know, No, you don't want sauce with them?

Well yeah, yeah, yeah, you know that's true.

L Ron Hubbard. Sauce is available. I've heard at times. I turned that down every time it was like, yeah, no, I agree, I agree there, yeah, but yeah, I was wondering if he had the uh gosh, I don't even know another word other than sauce, but if he was if you had the ability to persuade me through good right fighting. Short answer is no, he doesn't. It's one of the best producers produced audio books of all time. Though it is incredible if you listen to it on audible,

You're like, yo, you're really bullshit.

You see Have you actually seen the movie?

Yeah?

Oh yeah, I mean that was that was supposed to be the you know, the the all film of all films, right, I mean, this was a monumental effort by David Miscavage.

Yeah, and I know.

I know Travolta had read it because I didn't realize how early Travolta like converted. I thought he converted in the nineties, but he had converted in like the late seventies.

If I'm not mistaken, I could be for nineteen seventy four.

So he reads Battlefield Earth as a scientologist when it comes out, and he's like Star.

Wars for Losers, I'm exactly.

At some point, and it's like how long that stayed in his mind? And I will say, the book is more entertaining than the I'm sorry, the movie is more entertaining than the book.

It's just not that good, right, right, Well they also Barry Pepper was supposed to be their next up and coming star in Scientology, right, So that's why he played opposite Travolta.

In that film. And well he he, you know, he was a lead in a lot of films.

He was just never really that charismatic, as you know, you have like Tom Cruise rolled even in l Ron or David Miscavitch because you know, he travolts to a certain extent. Although I've met him, He's got no charisma. That dude's a you know, a soul, an empty soul, an empty vessel, which is what you know, Hollywood likes.

Yeah, actors, for the most part, I find out they have too many like opinions that I like, typically that it doesn't show up on the screen, So you have to be a blank canvas a little bit if you're any good at it.

Sure, yeah, exactly. That's that's often what's described by a lot.

Of the best actors, right, yeah, exactly, And now we want to know all of their thoughts now, which is it's a great combination for cinema.

What's your opinion folks who believe in this weird ancient ally cargo cult scenarios of scientology, what's your opinion on modern.

Day societal issues. Yeah, that's what I want to know. Yeah, exactly.

Have the answers, yeah, exactly that the movie is is not good, But like I totally remember when I watched it, I was like.

Wow, Barry Pepper, I forgot about Barry Pepper.

He was in the six Billy Crystal sixty one movie about the Yankees.

He was in Ryan I want to say, yeah.

Anyway, because he has that like Millet old I mean not in Battlefield Earth. They give him some sweet gear to put on, but he had that like crew cut, like period piece military guy, but they kind of stopped making a lot of those movies and then therefore they didn't need him.

He was also in a film called Knock Around Guys, which was interesting, wasn't all. It was like the late brat Pack if you will. From the eighties. It was the Diesel Barry Pepper, Seth Green, I'm missing somebody.

Oh yes, oh my gosh. Last from the past.

Well they yeah, they filmed that Montane was stationed there at the time. It was big news when they filmed that up there. So but the with Barry Pepper was also a not a star, but he was in the film a very scientology casted. In my opinion, Scientology produced film The Enemy of the State, and I think it was nineteen ninety seven.

Yeah, that's right, Enemy of the State.

So many scientologists in that film, and it's really it's really and it's really what you know, if you look at from a scientologist perspective, when they're not talking about these crazy alien tales and Battlefield Earth, their their current societal perspectives on long life here in America is the over reaching intrusion of government and religious functions and you know,

Twice a day, so just like an inn broken clock.

So they got that one right. You know, they're right about that.

But they were early on on that, on that fight, and that is what they they've been really focused on that sence the nearly noice. But it's again they want to do a lot of hood rat ships. They don't want the government spying on them. But I mean they make some good points in that argument.

Yeah, yeah, the what's his name, the like Tom Cruise, there's that viral clip that happens if Tom Cruise, uh like crapping on Big Pharma for like add Yeah, but what they don't show you is he's like scientology. All you got to do is put him in scientology, like we'll get read, we'll correct the add Because if what they do is they kind of you know, they act as a controlled opposition in a sense of to like, oh, you hate the government, so do we dude, like, come on over here anyway?

Yeah, now you're tracking, Yeah, do you have dollars?

They're not opposed to beating their members, so just ask miss Gabbage tracking.

Yeah.

Nick, this point a couple of episodes ago about how sometimes like conspiracy can be a little anti government in its formation. I'm not saying that the critiques aren't valid, but the sort of like the you know, its directionality is always one sided.

Sure, I wondered JJ, No, go ahead.

I just wondered a Travolta, since he converted so early, if he might have some process connections.

Oh, we're going to get into that soon in Operation GCD here talking to some of those tales because it's funny how he I'm going to do an cult esoteric review that I have yet to invite you and you and Nick to to join me on yet. But so the film Devil's Reign starring William Shatner, Old Bill's got his Satanist connections and it's also got a young John Travolts in it. It's where he meets this other cast

WHOA, wow, that's a cru huh.

Yeah, they got a nice picture together.

Travolt is a lot less handsy with Anton Lavay that he tried to get with me, so what that means?

But I mean he thought you were a better luck.

Maybe he wanted to take you to the desert, saying.

I guess I'm better looking than the Olevay there, I suppose in John's eyes.

But I don't know if that don't know if that's I don't know, if that's too a lot to.

Do a though.

J Yeah, he's not an attractive man.

Yes either way, Yeah, either way, it doesn't matter. He's barking up the wrong tree.

Jin's avatar is.

It is interesting how much these people, of these folks have permeated Hollywood for a very long time. Like you were saying, that is the gonegoing narrative that kind of around the welcome back codter yours is when Travolta joins, But it's really much earlier, and they have a far greater grasp in Hollywood than I think I think there's a lot of secret scientill just what I'm getting at. And then you have, as Jen was pointing out, the Process Church quote unquote offshoot, which I would call the

I think, oh, go ahead and go ahead.

Heidi, Oh, I was just saying, it makes sense if they're auditors because they have the secret so oh yeah.

And friends with old hubs. Glenn, did I see you do a podcast there on Roman Polanski?

No, with Roman Polanski, he came up, No, okay, yeah, yeah, no yeah. And on that note of out of folks.

Yeah, no.

I we talked about it fairly like like it was a fairly thing. I went through his films I love his movies.

I mean I do.

I love his films, and but I read his autobiography. It's insane like and it goes up to about eighty four. So, yes, the thing is mentioned in graphic detail, and he admits it in the Thing play by probably walks you through the interaction and then he's like, what's the big deal?

Right, He's proud of it.

He's proud of it, and he's he's heralded for by an element of Hollywood today. That's the kind of element we're talking about with this process.

Everybody was allowing them to be like, Hey, the lighting's good to take pictures of that girl at my house over here if you want, like, you can use my house.

We do this all the time. They it's it's crazy.

Yeah, And old Hobbs was into this activity. Old l Ron he had a team of young young girls and would walk around. One of them would hold his drink, one would hold his ash tray and hold a lighter, the other hold his cigarettes.

Yeah. Yeah, they had a whole network.

Damn do we know how many. I'm just curious obviously, because he I'll do cabala in impress her.

I'll have to get back to down some numbers here because it is interesting. So Leah Ramini would later pop up as a prominent scientologist and a similar capacity. So when she signed her billion year contract Honor about the age of eleven or twelve, she got a signed if I think remember correctly as Shelley, miss Gavage's little assistant.

Now.

I don't know if she's got the same proclivities as l Run does, but I suppose missed her husband does knows.

Where she is anymore since toss action.

Yeah a, yeah, imagine that. Imagine you're a CEO of any other organization or company. You make your wife disappear and no one even bats an eye. Imagine Coca Cola CEO of Coca Cola is like, yeah, I no one seen my wife since you know, two thousand and seven, and people know that's that's unfortunate, you know, but no one does.

He only five foot one anyways, this.

Is probably a small man. He's a small man, yeah, sure, than shorter than Cruise.

Wow, I'm not kidding. They say he's one.

Cruise is a tiny fellow. He just likes to play a tall man who knows how to fight in films.

Yeah, yeah, he's good.

At it.

Don't get me wrong.

I like watching him play a tall guy who knows how to fight, but he's neither a tall guy, and I highly suspect he does not know how to fight.

He's got big teeth, he can bite, you know, Yeah, definitely knows how to pilot.

Dude.

I saw a recent video of him on the new Mission Impossible. He's literally they got him strapped onto the wing of a biplane just one hundred and forty mile prior wins, just Tom cruising it up. I'm like, well, this dude is a fucking lun It's like that's the you know, he really like, he really ruined it as the champion, as their poster boy when they early two thousands on his split from Scientology, so he left for

What's your speculation on why he went back.

It's a great question.

They really apparently they really worked him, Misscavige and his assistant, Marty Rathsman, who then later left and became the biggest opponent of Scientology and now he's back a Misscavage is number two.

So these folks, they just play both sides, you know what I mean.

And Remini might be doing the same thing because, like I said, she was in close with Shelley Miss Savage. That's she's the one who filed the missing person's report about Chilly Miss Sabbage. Because and I'm not saying that they're cluding or nothing, but because she was clearly friends with a woman. You know, she got herself in trouble asking about it for whereabouts you know, according to Rontail, which I'm willing to believe.

But because these folks is hot.

He was saying, you're you know, they like to beat their membership, I mean, if not physically, which they do, and they're known for that mentally because uh, when Ramini asked for Shelley Miss Scavage was apparently they like, you need some auditing. You're gonna need a sect check, we need a sex check. You check audit with leather belt. Yeah, were streak in a room for like twelve fourteen hours a day, holding them damn cans, answering questions for a couple of days straight.

That'll do some wonders to your psyche for sure.

Oh yeah, is there like some blackmail? I mean, is there do they they have like a traditional blackmail network. Cause that's what I'm getting at with Tom Cruisey. That's reason.

Yeah, I'm pretty sure it's all blackmail. Yeah, that's what I was. Well, that's what I was.

I mean right then and there.

Then they write it down, They write it down and the videotape and they have libraries of these things.

I mean, like before Epstein, they just weren't like they didn't catch you having sex with ship there, you know what I'm saying, Like they were still blackmailing.

Here sure, or they were getting the secrets. So and for I mean, you got some powerful people adding on. Koshogi was a scientific did scientology stuff. Robert Maxwell, you know the name I can't remember, but his son started MTV.

With Mormons too.

Yep, and Trump a lot of weird, weird badfellas there, huh. But the U with the scientology stuff, like you know where meet he's up there, high up. And then now today she's you know, their biggest opponent. But if you go on our website, she wants you to donate to the Best Friends Animal Society. That's the processed church of the final judgment. So what side does she play on?

Whoever pays her the most, so.

I almost view it as she's she's working a coup against Hubbard.

I'm sorry, Misscabage.

Misscabage pulled it and his crew that that Marty Rathburn guy and a couple other fellas. They pulled a coup against the folks Hubbard put in charge.

Right.

They tossed his office.

Yeah, they tossed his office and threw him out, and he said he had all the secrets. And then they went in when he went out of town somewhere and looked for everything and then tossed him out.

Yeah, well he supposedly he handed he handed the church off to somebody else. This married couple was like, I can't think of their names of the moment, but the.

Boat people, yeah, the boat people, I can't remember it either, but.

It was Missavage and his young crew. They were all like twenty five, twenty to twenty eight year olds. They all ran a coup. So it seems like a different coup. They're all trying to get Misscabage out of his power, and maybe that's why Marty Rathman went back.

Who knows, but just so people just trying to take the shit over with.

It's all about Yeah, it's all it's all a bunch of me. I mean, it's a magical space navy, right, I mean, what do you expect.

A magical space?

It is was ZENI with the helm.

Outfits run around.

You know. Hubbard had to do that because he needed something to make him look better.

Uniform helps a little bit.

It's fair tuning in. You could say that, like you could say it's like very related to hoke mom, like sailing on the primordial waters above.

The Abyss even even think about it. Even in a Crowley's Rush they talk about the great barge in the sky. I mean you even have like boat sits in there. And he was friends with.

He's big friends, big time friends with Crowley. It was not just like here and there saw the guy like they were legit. I mean Hobbard straight up said he was the anti Christ for a while, like like himself, he would just be like, I'm the anti Christ. But it's also they don't believe in any of that stuff, so it's like they're just it was using it as this kind of like none of this matters. What I'm doing is opposing something that's not real. I'm the only real thing, which is really scary to me.

I don't know by betray.

You, betray you or the anti Christ.

For a time, I read that same thing and I was like, okay, the never ending story.

So it's like an of the Theosophical Yeah, no, you're right, but it's like the inversion of the theosophical Matreya, which they take for Buddhism. So it's not even like a real it's not even the simulkrav the original thing, but it's obviously the inversion of theosophy. So I think that's really interesting because when you read when you read liber forty nine, it it is drawing from a like original NaSTA toaxtic. It's very obvious, but they do invert it.

I'm saying I don't know the planet.

Will it's not less, it's not less exactly, And they Hubbard gets into the Supreme Being.

And then I'm like, okay.

Well, hy do you have to have a galactic go overlord.

Of space?

Operative is that if you don't have a galactic go overlord, you need an antagonist?

So true.

One thing is this a book that do they push this book onto their members or something to.

Buy the battle.

So they're probably even making a killing off that book too.

So oh, just what you want to hear?

A tax game you're running.

They got the publishing house for not only all the religious texts that they push on their on their membership, they got they got the sci fi writers publishing house underneath the church umbrella for tax free status. So every copy of Battlefield Earth that anyone purchases, so that's tax free. Frint, that's under the religious sanctions of Xenu.

I'm gonna piss everybody off and leave it in one of those like community little mailbox libraries out there so they cannot get it. Really I'm already sad that I gave them some money, uh, because I is that?

What's that?

How wild is it they can pull that kind of scame?

I mean, that's this is all that's obviously a for profit science fiction book.

There's nothing religious about it. You know. That's the dumbest part about it. The dumbest thing.

About it is the is the whole, like is the whole? This is anti government. You're doing the most like bureaucratic bullshit of all time.

Like within a thing.

But you just the fact that it's independent from a state run organization, which they've infiltrated all that, so it doesn't really they're all these entertainer I guarantee you that, I entertainment lawyers, every sort of thing technical everywhere.

But it's like you're just now that does sound Mormon?

Yeah, very Mormon.

Yeah.

The corporate structure of it too, right Heidi.

Oh, of course definitely.

And as we always say, like the corporate when you apply the bureaucracy to institutions, that's that's what Larias said was a klipa. So you are creating the tree of death within the institution by applying bureaucracy to it. So it's kind of a very interesting idea. And I just want to say I think al Ron was actually aware of that. I don't think he was like a I don't think he was like a Crowley level. You know,

Level, But.

I think that's one thing that really this magical aspect of scientology helps it permonate, permeate throughout our culture. Cause it's it's fucking everywhere. I'm not gonna lie to you, it's it's a mess. There's so many secret scientologists.

You know.

I can write a off some names right now and you'll be like, whoa that dude to scientologists? That due to scientologists. I don't know if that's really productive. All just do one key and Ivory Wayne, you'd be like, WHOA, that dude's a scientologists Yeah, he left one. He left one ancient alien cargo cult, went to another. He grew up with Jehovah's Witness.

Oh major pay then it might have been better, right.

I don't know.

They're kind of the same thing. They're really much in the same boat, right. They're apocalyptic, they do the alien stuff they do.

I think it's quite easy for a guy like that to to switch up because Jehovah's Witness isn't going to get you auditions and roles. Scientology will get you auditions

And they're like, oh my gosh, yeah the House Party four.

Yeah, yeah, definite, Actually, definitely, definitely there's no maybes in Scientology.

We are getting keenan. Yeah, they definitely.

They definitely have the The marketing departments are good, they're you know, they're real good about all that they're infiltration of governments, real good.

So imagine this imagine scenario you get.

I'm not saying any one of you all here, but imagine an individual gets popped for just a minor drug violation in any many jurisdiction is roughly seventy percent of America.

They cover this with this program narking.

On and stay funded taxpayer funded programs mandated by.

The court for minor drug offenses for drug rehab.

So imagine get popped in one of these scenarios a little bit of drugs or with a pod or whatever, you know.

And you're you can get assigned by the court.

Instead of going to prison or paying a fine, you go to rehab to this narcan on program right again, you pay a small fee of the state's really funding all of it, right and uh, you know, you get they suddenly give you a bunch of vitamins or sitting

A very scary element.

Then you look at folks like RFK, who actually started an anti drug nonprofit with a scientologist and is very much is represented the scientology and court and these these drug matters as well. So he's very much on that same team, that same viewpoint of these same kind of drugs. So when he's he's trying to remove I'm not I'm not opposed to moving dies and stuff from food and whatnot.

But like it's it's what we were saying before. They're they're glenning about it.

It's that's that's you know, that's you know, they come at you with a shamul on twist there with some other you know, other things that are really after sm other motives, ulterier motives are really after with this, with these efforts, because really all they're trying to do is make everybody scientologists.

Yeah, partially, it's partially like a like a like a the at least the illusion of a patronage network, right where it's like, hey, we'll get you this.

This is what you try.

It's a deal with it's a bureaucratic deal with the devil essentially, right, It's like I would do anything for this, like, oh, anything sounds good. You know, we'll let you do this one thing. We'll put some money behind it. We'll do whatever. We'll we'll help you advertise, we'll do all of this. We just need X, Y and Z from you.

You know.

And and it's usually out. The scale is not quite balanced, I would think.

And then they got rid of both their wives. Oh wait, sorry, no, it's.

Uh, you know.

And when I say, they permeate everything. So you know, if you go to Hollywood, if you want to be a young.

Actor, there's a famous school in Hollywood Boulevard run by an infamous scientologist. He'll try to sign you up when you go there. So that's where a lot of folks get signed up real early.

And as far as the blackmail operations go within that community, Richard gear felt victim to that, it seems, and been in the late eighties early nineties. It seems when he partoned ways with Scientology and across America, rumor grew long. This is how good they're they're marketing and network in

But now I don't know that's accurate, you know, I mean if you ever told them that.

But I do believe scientology is some many of that that message at least because that things spread everywhere.

Yes, I don't know.

I mean, let me let me wink.

South Park episode is like based off Richard Gear. I mean it's just like.

Oh, they did a south Park episode.

Okay, yeah, yeah they did.

They did a south Park episode of the hamster inside. I don't think it's Richard Gear, but it's basically a famous person and it's uh, it's a clout crawling through and it's a it's a quest of an.

Hear almost a hero's journey of a hamster. Let me win.

The digestive tract of I'm not an anatomy guy. But yeah, that's that's where it was.

Not good, never good. That's a bad day.

Yeah, because you wonder how many, like how many This is pure speculation, of course, but how many Hollywood rumors?

All right?

All the stuff you hear about are just from like scientology, you know, experiments are just like oh yeah, and at twelve hours, forty three minutes, eighteen seconds. They do talk about the Gerbil going up his ass. Go please release that. Now, we did not get paid. You did not get the latest on hundred thousand dollars payment from Richard Gear, So release the Gerbil manifest.

It's worse than that.

If you don't come in for your regular meetings and sex checks and you know, auditing sessions every week, that's when you get put on the list.

They'll start.

That's probably when they started to we'll start in on the list. If he doesn't come in this week, next week, we'll we'll scale it up a bit.

Damn.

Imagine that reading with your agent and your agent's like, Richard, what's going on here?

And he's like, oh what, it's not true? Of course. Yeah, they're like it.

Was twelve hours.

Haven't you heard of those people that get like grilled with cops and they're like, I did the murder. He just made something up, so they quit it.

Yeah that's true. Maybe it's something far worse. Yeah, sure, I'm sure. I'm sure he gets dark. And some of them scientilogists out in auditing books and politics, you know, they had Sonny Bono his entire Congressional office there before he skied down their mountain the wrong way headed tree apparently, which I don't believe that story.

He was a lot.

He was a long time scientologist, danding back to the sixties and he was in government.

Wife's missing kids dying all.

Yeah, married to Share there. So they worked for Phil Spector. He was kind of the uh postage church head of the musical scene in Laurel Canyon, right Wall of Sound, right, Sharon, That's where Sonny and Share got their start, was Phil Spector.

But yeah, he was. He was a scientologist back then.

That's about by the same time she raped Anthony Ketis of uh of red Hell Chili Peppers when he was like I think he claims to be eleven when that happened.

He grew up in Laurel Canyon. His father was an actor. He was in that same scene.

Yep.

Yeah, yeah, So jjus about this before Wall of Sound because I know Phil Spectr obviously you talk about.

Him a lot.

Yeah, he's a crazy right.

I personally think that they borrowed Wall of Sound, not just from Esslyn and Barbara marks huvering all that, but I actually think they took it from tntra, there's something decoherent about it. Decoherent is the Pink Ray. I know, I'll at least for three of you have heard me talk about that. So I think there's something that they think that the sound in decoherence can produce magical experiences or maybe auditory and visual hallucinations.

Quote.

I'm using air quotes, but obviously you can't see, but I can't say it's air quotes. Yeah, So I think that that's what the wall of sound is because this would make sense for a lot of the stuff that Heidi talked about in the series with me, but also what you talk about JJB and like the sex sort of magic stuff from four.

PY Yeah, four buys, tantric sex, magictual, Buddhist, tntra, Cali worshiping, ritual, homicidal death cult. That's a lot of words, but they're a bunch.

That's like a red hot pers that's a red hot Chilli Peppers album.

Time like Blood Sugar, Sex Magic exactly. Wasn't that produced? Wasn't that produced by Rick Rubin? Oh? It was?

It was you know, you know what you know the album he produced right after that, The process.

It's an album based on the processed Church with a band, Skinny puppy.

Damn.

There you go.

So you got Thelma, you got an I'll shoot of the Lima with the process. I mean, Rick Rubin's in deep with He's also very close with Jack Nichols. Nicholson who's a big, big time you know, plant skin him both big time and Cocaine Bob.

There were there were a trio there, Cocaine Bob. I'm not sure if you saw in the book and they mentioned that book, you're mentioned about their cocaine Bob came in for the cleanup crew on that operation. You know the break thing is what I meant.

Damn, that was Bob you're talking about Bob Evans. Yeah, yeah, he came in for the Yeah, they all did Chinatown together there, and I mean he was high up at Paramount.

Oh yeah, big time.

Wow.

I didn't tell he's the one who hired Polanski their first little project there. That's saying this ship show of Rose Murray's baby. Yeah, oh yeah, Anton LeVay was there, of course, Sam Sammy Davis was there.

He was in it.

Oh that's all that makes sense because yeah, Bob Evan, I mean, yeah, that's that's not just some like quiet actor and I arn some quiet guy in Hollywood. Him he's like everywhere any seventies cinema, like he's he's a part.

He was, he was a part of I mean, he was it till the end. Man he's uh, he's he is Hollywood.

He was.

In fact, when are you familiar with the film.

Wagged the Dog?

Yes, so you know the Dustin Hoffman character in there. That's the satirical representationable cocaine.

Bob ah, that makes sense.

So he went, Bob went to the premiere and he walked out and they said, what do you what do you think of the film? And he said, I thought I looked great in it. That's pretty I mean, he made Hoffman's career. He made so many of those folks careers. He made Hoffman's career. Hoffman was associated with the Weather Underground.

That's that's a topic not often discussed.

I don't know that.

Yeah, that he lived Uh well, I mean when I say associate with he he had all least social associations with him, whether or not he was a member. He lived next door to them there in Greenwich Village, in that townhouse they blew up.

And that they were the Patty Hurst people.

They were associated with the Patty Hurst eventually, yeah, they they were the folks Bill Ayers burned that dorn Uh. Their adopted son is the guy that was the recent DA of San Francisco, Chase Boudine.

He's the one that that's let everybody shop on the sidewalks. Oh yeah, no, I'm I'm not far from there. It's I can I can smell it.

Oh, he used to be a lovely city.

You know.

I really enjoyed that place.

And then uh, last few times I went there, I so much shit on the sidewalks.

Yeah.

No, you're one hundred percent. But literally, I know, my wife and I just went there two weeks ago. We had fun and then like you walked down the mission, you're just like, oh, that's not pit bullshit either, Like you just know it's it's pressure washed, you know, but like still not really, you know, it's still there.

Yeah it's bad, but yeah, I mean, the uh even the weather underground.

I argue they're an off shoot of the process really because I mean their leaders venerate the process and process members like Charles Manson, Sir Hans Sir Han both the leaders chase it Bernadette Dorn and Bill Airs both venerate them.

Called ActBlue. The treasurer for Act Blue.

Susan Rosenberg weather underground bomber of US Capital. Their folks venerate the process, and the process again is the dark winging of the scientology left. So Ed Sanders have authored The Family of the you know, the the Good Book, the first book they're written on Charles Manson.

Situation at the Bugleiosi bullshit.

Sanders was right his At the same time he in his files he scribbled a note on one of his folders which I find to be the funniest thing ever, especially in the ship that I look into like these matters. He wrote, the process church people are everywhere, and I tend to agree.

I want to say, JJ, this actually makes the chaos magicians of the late eighties look good. Like all these things you're saying, like that the Scordians through it all into chaos. It does kind of make them justified. It does kind of seem to me. I'm just maybe I'm saying this to be a little you know, edgy edge lordie, but I do think that might be true actually, because you know, if everyone kind of takes the material then they don't, then it's not just owned by the process.

Sure, you know that's precisely right.

It's a dissemination of all the liability of it through different offshoots, but it's still one organization.

And how many of them are secretly conjoined with other religions, et cetera.

As secret chief is. That's what a secret chief really is, right, It's the person who's the go between between orders. Like we spoke with someone who may or may not be affiliated with those higher orders the other day, Nick and I, well, Nick invited me to speak with his friend. So I think that's what it is. It's someone who goes between someone who selects adepts are I don't know, they think that will be to do well in their system. That's what I think. And I think all theosophy is talking

I'm just saying, what covers your tracks?

If you want to do some really screwed up stuff, I mean, you can just be like I was just entertaining.

Wasn't's whole career based off that?

Who you know, he was kind of think J. J. Vance is really maybe.

Yeah, he was LARPing, right, Is that what we're saying? He was kind of LARPing as a magician.

I mean I think it was. I think he was in a cult is playing okay, yeah, yeah.

There was rumors that they he would get people to like close their eyes and then he would go like handle some ship real fast and then come back and be like, oh yeah this thing it turned into a stapler you know or what. I don't know, whatever the but like, yeah, there whether he was, but he might have been doing actual stuff in his LARPing, you know what I'm saying, Like you can, I can larp and

I like the idea if he's doing some cold ship, but he's doing it under this kind of guys of a performance art of the state magician. I like that idea. He was very intelligent man, and his death makes no sense.

It's all bullshit. That old sort of his death is bullshit.

Laurel, Laurel, because when we did recorded with Migul for me on bites, like on the Elvis episode, we talked about this, like how there is kind of a dialectical reciprocity between like a performer and the audience and if the you know, if the.

Performers tapped in like we were saying Elvis was topped in. He got it right. He was like a he thought he was like a Hyperborean Friends or whatever. So he was like the you know, Home Rising Hermes whatever.

So I'm not gonna say.

I'm not gonna say Elvis was a process member, Jim, but he definitely knew the US process.

I knew, right.

I went way deeper since that conversation, I'm like, oh my god, what the hell is going on here with this Manson situation with Elvis?

We need to do a backup.

On that one.

Then, Yeah, I really would have liked to have I even said that with Julia. I said, I really would have liked to have maybe covered some more of Elvis, but not in the same way that episode was done, because, if anything, I think it gave us more amo to look in different areas about the guy.

Absolutely, dude, I had no idea as much stuff I woked into Elvis as.

As I heard that Manson shit, I'm like, yeah.

I was like, how have I never, like, because I know a logic about Elvis wasn't a lodge about Manson, But I was like, how have I never.

Just even me as an ocultist, if somebody asked me to do that job, ask me in a year, I show up in three days. Everybody's gonna think regardless that I'm fucking involved with your people, Like just keep it real, Like it's just kind of like you're gonna look bad doing that, you know, And if you still need somebody to come by the house, ask me in a year. Maybe maybe I'll change my mind, but no, not right now. You know.

If I may put two book cands in our In our last few minutes conversations here, folks, I wanted to point out the Laurel Canyon Houdini Home owned by Rick Rubin and or at least has been owned by Rick Rubin in recent years, and uh, the the guess what I'm getting at with all these kind of connections with all these people process, scientology, politics, music, Hollywood, right, like the fact that these it seems that the process people are indeed everywhere, it's not so it's it's fun to

But apardon me, well, there we go. And uh, but it's also noticed to notice these folks.

Are very they seem to wield an innumerable amount of power, right, So like you know, they're getting in places, they're infiltrating places, they're doing things, they're getting government funding from narc and on programs, et cetera. Their running programs all the time doing lord.

Knows what else.

But it's you know, back to that Bill's Bill Air guy.

As far as power goes, right, Bill Airs.

In the Weather Underground, these folks skirting charges and whatnot, waging political warfare in this in this nation, seeming to give their Marxist values that they espouse. You know, scientology generally speaking is largely conservative, but you look at the process. They were Marxists, and you know, there are some some kind of variations in some of the political views of think in these groups. But you know, nonetheless, I think there's still one organization. They just you know, have varying

They're a huge wealthy family.

He you know, went on a bombing parade, of bombing all these domestic terrorism stuff for many years and whatnot.

You know, some of his folks.

Got wrapped up with that two Pakshakurs folks, and that and that shooting, the Brinks armory, the Brink truck armory robbery in New York.

Clinton has what I'm talking about.

And on September eleventh, two thousand and one, on the front page of the New York Times, there's an editorial printed by Bill Ayers and the opening line is, I wish I would have blown up more buildings.

That's the level of power.

That I'm talking about with the weather underground, Bill Airs, the process and the scientology folks generally, yeah, because that.

Shit ain't a coincidence.

That's the Thlee mc ritchell and we're talking about Athleen mcoff shoot cult ahead of which printing that on an editorial you know, he can write it all day long.

Who printed that?

Who?

What was the forethought planning and procedures around getting that printed?

Well, that's well, that's what made me interested in the book is because it's like what system is he using? Like can you map it to one of the Talima offshoots? That's kind of like even I think one of the ideas I had coming into the episode was like is that can you look at it? Can you see the guy? But you can map different tendencies onto the tree, right, So it would make sense if he was approaching it like I want to tell this story and he's putting

For more than more than Mormons, but yes.

Yeah, yeah, the Twilight language is not like the language to the subconscious that is magic, right, Well.

It can be it can be. It's like seeds of potential are there and it depends on how much you buy in. That's a very.

Chaste actual Yeah, like Kevin I I postually like the way they teach the upper echelon priesthood holders that give all the quorum of the seventy how to speak. I mean it's like a very singy songy mesmerism.

Sound is the is.

When you capture four elements in space, so giving it the fifth dimension. Right, So it's the second most powerful after light. But light and sound are also the same thing. But it's the second most powerful vehicle of magic because there's actually two kinds of speech. I'm sorry, I'm not trying to make a long point about this, but there

Mm hmm.

I would agree one hundred percent.

Because they control the lighting, They control like everything.

When you think.

About Conference, I don't know if you've ever watched Conference Gin, but it's terrific. But anyway, like the way they speak is I definitely have always postulated that they're casting.

In my opinion, interesting.

I.

Can understand that. I think kytie is that it's some sort of you know, ritual casting magic stuff, because it's such a weird thing to watch.

It's not even like at least the Catholics. They had some incense and then make some some music into it's just very dry, but it's all.

You know, will fall asleep, They fall asleep.

It's it's soothing. Okay, you ever fall asleep being soothed? Guys, It's very fun.

Except except those of us that see through it and we're screaming in our heads.

But that's okay. I'm like, get me out of here.

What is happening?

The uh you guys get my way out of almost every one of those conferences, Hoti, I couldn't do it. After I went to a on while, I was like, I will do every chore, this house, the house next door, the house down the street, but I don't ever have to go back to that agame.

Oh it's bad, so bad.

Did you guys, Did you guys read battle Not all of you guys read it right?

Oh yeah, we got detailed from we were talking about battlefields here on Earth if you're talking about battlefield er.

No, but you guys didn't read it right.

I've read it.

I've never read I've seen I've seen it.

I was gonna say, don't because it's not a good book, but like, it's just for anybody who doesn't know like what this is. And the only reason I'm saying this is because I want to get somebody like JJ who knows a lot about it, because I couldn't see a lot of what the application of scientology was. So now

I want to write.

Sci fi, old school sci fi, and he talks about does it give us long thing of like examples of what science fiction is, what it's become.

I take it he didn't like a lot of the Philip K.

Dickification of sci fi and he wanted to write old school Blam rocket you know, space fighting Western Space.

Well, that was his crew. That was his crew. Arthur C.

Clark, Isaac Asimov, you know all these guys. Uh yeah, I want to say Ray Bradbury by that of him is all those sci fi writers from that time. They were all part of the same club with the Forest. J Ackron was kind of the club leader, the famous monsters guy from Hollywood and Forrest j Ackerman would claim they were all doing Parsons thing. He got a lodge of the Oto and then Hubbard invented this new thing, scientology. I'm just he says things and stuff like that, but it's scientology.

And he said, then we started we all started.

Doing scientology for a while, We all started doing the new thing for a while.

Yeah.

Croly did try to warn him. He said he was a confidence man, and I mean he took his girl started up his own deal like all of it.

So oh for sure. He stole most of his biography from his college roommate, Paul lion Barger.

I didn't know that.

Whoa Yeah, Paul Liin Barger, very interesting fella. He was a sci fi writer. He wrote with the name Cordwin or Smith. He also he also wrote the Army's Manual and Psychological Warfare for World War Two.

M took a job. He took He took a job. You know you gotta get you gotta make money.

Guys, Well this is we're We're all these sci fi writers involved in the writing psychological warfare manuals for the Army.

On you try keeping the lights come on?

Yeah, well did y'all know that Michael Likeino wrote, wrote a bunch of Star Wars fan fiction and one time almost broke I think he either try to break in or broke into, uh George Lucas's house, knocking on his front door or you know, property knocked on his front door.

Was trying to get him to publish it.

He could see that because George Lucas was into stuff. I mean, he's talked about it. He talked about how he wasn't doing meditations on the tarot, how he was reading the etching, how he was doing the Unfortune's cabala. He talked about like that that's was the genesis of the lore. And I'm not like a super Star Wars person, but there is. I used to find it superficial. I'm just being honest, like I used to find it very superficial. But actually now I actually can see that there's he's talking.

No Lucas is uh. Lucas is kind of McGowan.

Dave mcgawan writes about it in weird scenes in the Canyon, the Lucas Uh being one of the cameramen to film the Aultamont massacre for the Rolling Stones concert. Now I don't he even says like I don't know who shot what, like who was on there, but he's he was part of the I think the usc film department that had all the major directors of you know what would become

I don't think it's coincidence. And Rolling Stones processed Church of the Final Judgment.

M.

Yeah, Grandpa's weird.

I don't think anyone that is involved in any of these cults.

Whether it be the process or Mormons or whatever.

I don't think there's accidents right like and by the way, most superstars, like big movie stars, they've all got a kid that's dead, like almost all of them, Like oh, he just was too close to the blinds or whatever whatever, like the treadmill cord or like the most random stuff and all of them have it.

I'm like I have I know plenty of people. Not everybody has one dead kid.

Sorry, yeah, doesn't.

I can think of like ten off the top of my head right now. Like since you said that, it's crazy, like John travolt Travolta Eric clapped in Francis fort Ca.

Yeah, and then let's be honest. John travolt has lost two kids, right, he lost that one jet, but he also lost the fellow name is named Sage Stallone. Take one look at Sage Stalone. Tell me his father is Sevester Stalloon.

Oh that's another Jackie thing, another Jackie h.

So travolt Travolta and Salone have been tight for many years. In fact, Stallone directed and choreographed the film Staying Live starring John Travolta. They got him real greased up, you know, you know Stallone while he was getting real grease up while directing Travolta, while he was getting greased up.

But yeah, they go way back, and that's uh.

You look at stage Stallone and he looks just like uh, John Travolta.

It goes back to John d Our Buddy.

Here you swap the wives and she gets pregnant, you get to raise the kid.

So yeah, well, I mean we were doing these sex could stuff. I mean, the Travolta is a scientologist. Seems like Stallone had a lot of scientology connections, including his early agent I believe it was, and then you know he had that weird start and porn and all those kind of things. I mean, you know, you look at these sex cults and it's like, well, they're probably all just banging each other for sure. That's why you got OJ's daughter growing up as a Kardashian. Definitely, he's a scientologist.

OJ was I didn't know.

That wasn't clear? Oh yeah, he w wasn't clear.

Well, before the murders, interesting, they were like, we found we found them. We found the all time or the single season rushing record to commit massive sacrifice murders.

What a steal.

Wow, Well that was that was in my opinion, that was a processed church related cocaine trafficking situation. Was cocaine everywhere, cocaine Bob's everywhere around the situation. In fact, he was dating. He was dating OJ's X girlfriend, the one that got called in around the time of the murders. So you know what I mean, Paul Barbieri, Yeah, that was Bobby girl from the time. And then literally like, oh, we

Well that's a good cover.

But yeah, I weren't tall, Jay Simpson scientologists for sure, Wow, proud wow.

Proud scientologists.

That's why you seen was Priscilla Presley and the naked guns here, proud scientologists.

Priscilla Pressley and as she was, I didn't know about him though, I didn't know about that. Yeah, wow, how do you think ower?

Yeah, I mean, yeah, channel.

That's how they'd get me that's how they'd get me. They'd be like, hey, dude, you can the leagues leading rusher for here.

I'll tell you, guys anything, record it.

I don't care coming in, Yeah, I gotta do it.

Fine, guys, Fine, I really want to bought this record.

Fine, Yeah, it's okay, it's totally fine. Do what you want. They said it was a coffee anema.

I didn't know.

Oh man, those living I'm sorry, damn man, damn.

I'm telling these folks are everywhere.

And when he's saying that these folks are gonna come together, I like to joke that it's that they're gonna come together like Vultron. They're ancient alien cargo cults come together like Vultron. They look separate and they come together like Voltron, YEP Catholics, Mormon scientologists, or Jehovah's witnesses. They all do their own function within these ancient alien cargo cult networks, in my opinion, And one day I was like, all right, is it time to blast off or out of your folks?

Let all these people launch themself out of here.

I'll never stop anybody from leaving Earth. Yeah, you watch them try it. Go ahead.

Oh by that rocket simulation thing weeks ago with all the ladies on it.

I wish I just kept going, just keep going. They can't keep going.

They didn't go anywhere.

They can't they just.

Oh my gosh, get.

Her out and just keep going like I'd go further.

She's the Pope.

She can't leave now.

That's true.

Yeah, she's just doing cabala. That's all.

That was the whole thing, humiliation ritual.

I didn't even think it was that. I think that they take them like up however high they can even go.

Up.

I think they went into some zero G thing if we were being really honest, but I think, okay, we'll just say it was real whatever that even means. So they went up as high as they go, and they're like, oh, it's touching the ploroma, like you could describe it as that and like a gnostic experience, like you're sort of breaching, you know, the veil of the world. You're crossing the abyss in the most literal way, because you're crossing through space and time at the same time.

Oprah's friend. No, no, I interrupted you.

The one lady that was Oprah's friend. She's like, but have you gone to space? And I'm like, you are stupid. You make women look so stupid. I'm just like.

King friends, the marketing the marketing acer friends, Yeah, child sex.

Exactly. And I just shake my head and go, oh my gosh, like, how is it that these women are not even that hot and guys are still like and they're so hot and great look at them, and I'm.

Like, this is the end of humanity.

That's fine?

Yeah, will you say j Yeah, you just said something, go ahead.

Well, just making a remark. I was making a retort about Aprah Winfrey house. She's so how does she still walk the earth without getting questions about stuff? She has all the money agent, she got some money. But she was a marketing agent for that Brazilian sex trafficking cult leader John.

And god, yeah, that shi was crazy.

She did so many events for that dude, had them on the show and so dude, like a lot of kids got dialed as a result of Oprah Winterfrey.

Oh yeah, they're all involved for sure.

One hundred and her her wife was on that ship, right, her beard was on the spacecraft.

Right, Gail, Yeah no, she was right, Yeah, yeah, name.

That's her beard. That's definitely her beard. Let's get it, let's let's get real.

They both they both took down They both took down Charlie Rose together so Gail could get her own show.

And yeah, well look at look at Oprah Wintererfrey's husband. He's like a little dainty looking fella, you know what I mean. They look like the weirdest looking couple too. Like when you see her with the gay old Gail, they're which, they're always together. He's never around, you know what I mean, Like you never see him around. You always see her. And it's a you can gotta tell, you know, I mean, there's a there's an appearance, there, a.

Good indicator. Right.

Well, it were just the fact, Gale, just the fact they're all in the ring together.

It just I just see it.

And what what makes me laugh is so many people still think a crap like that is real and not what Jin said. It's like a ritual.

I could definitely see the op Her and her beard being cultists.

Well they just think of it. I mean, you could think of it just like scientology. You can just say okay, they're going clear, because what is clear clear is really turquoise is very like old fashion kabala idea. It's like the color of turquoise, which can also be the day sky or the night sky, because both of those colors a lot bess and turqoise are really the same thing. That's kind of how it's considered. So yeah, they're just they're they're touching the you know, the pristine clarity of God.

Afterwards, definitely very very supreme being. She was like, I went to space and you didn't. So and then Katy Perry kissing the dirt. I was like, get up, what are you doing? You're so weird.

Well, if you look at the.

No I was just saying that that Actually what Heidi just said was interesting because it's like the you know, the Uranus and the chronos. It's like the sky and the primordial.

That makes sense. Well, at least that makes some sense of the situation, because when I seen it, I was like, this is stupid. This is so stupid that I can't I mean, it's just funny to me that people don't see through it and they're like.

Did you see this cool thing?

And I'm like, I this is why I don't have friends. So I have you guys, but I'm like, yeah, I can't talk about this like that, Like you okay, that's fine, Yeah, keep walking.

Well, if you look at who invented a space force, aside from the Catholics then travel rockets. These are l Ron's buddies. This is Isaac Asimov, This is Arthur C. Clark, the folks that also, for some reason, when the appoll that cut out in.

My back Oh yeah, yeah, yeah good.

The Arthur C.

Clark and Isaac Asimov also, strangely enough, besides inventing rockets and space travel before science came up with these concepts, like they came up with them first, they were also doing the live broadcast.

Of the Apollo eleven launch.

I can sixty nine, yeah, and you talking about to Last sixties, nineteen sixty nine to be precise.

Yeah, and you talk about Arthur C.

Clarke writes what book for Stanley Kubrick to adapt? I mean two thousand and one of Space Odyssey. It's crazy. It is crazy.

Well, it's even crazier when you see that again, these are all al Ron's friends. They're the ones bringing a space. They all seem to have a prelection towards children.

Yeah, what was the what was the pulp publication that they all started under? Do you know?

Because that that's I'd like to look into that. That's interesting, Like it was an early pulp They they're all friends.

From their pulp days, and this is battlefield Earth.

They say, like l Ron Hubbard, serializing like a year's worth of like a pulp story essentially is what he's what he's doing. But they come from an old I don't know if it's the same one as like Robert y Howard in them from back in the day, but it was it was a similar process, And I wonder like, what was that magazine all about?

Yeah, that's what I was talking about.

This it's an entire club of folks and it spawns and spawns, Marvel and DC comics. The ringleader, the ringleader of the bunch is a guy by the name of Forrest j Ackerman. He's a Hollywood legend and monsters, monster stuff. So yeah, the well, that just reminds me of a different scientology situation. I tell you, had I previously had had secluded this other thought in the way back of my brain hole beneath a lot of bong resin and

Get Shorty, Yes, so Get Shorty.

Gene Hackman, who I is high, was high on my list as a secret scientologist long before his mysterious death. He just did way too many films with Travolts and Cruise and other scientologists. Just it's the sheer volume of times you're you're acting opposite of a sciential, a known scientologist from like, wait a second, buddy, what's going on here?

But he plays this kind of.

B rate horror film dude right, like in Hollywood, right, that's his character and Get Shorty right, So that in my opinion, that's Roger Corman, legendary b rate film horror director and very close friends BFFs if you will with cocaine Bob Evans. MM, so you know this weird kind of again this uh you know this scientology. You know they're there, it's the scientologists making movies telling stories about

They all have weird predilections.

Maybe Travolta's isn't kids, but he certainly got handsy with a number of masseus, as it seems, and I can attest to him being a little bit uh handsy myself, so not not thankfully, not as bad as the messuss. I was like, wait a second, John, let's back it off here now.

But he's like, get off of me.

Yeah.

I was like, this is an inappropriate friend. Well, you know what I mean.

They all seem to be the weird stuff, right, like weird sexual stuff.

Right.

JJ's like, listen, I don't need no Roy Cohne picture. Bitch, back it up, back it up.

What were you saying?

Oh? I just wanted to say that it's interesting that you brought up Roger Corman because obviously he did all those Argentinian Sword and Sandal movies. So it is like it is sort of like what I was referring to. It's like there's a division between like who prefers the Hyperborean mythos and Hooper for prefers the Lovecraftians who were seeing like monster creators, like people did special effects makeup?

Well yeah, and you think about that in terms of like the Pulps, Right, what were the two big pulp things or two out of the big three. You had Western, you had crime, and you had sci Fi. Right, so that's a good way.

You know.

Elmore Leonard I think started in the Pulps too, which he did get Shorty the novel, and I don't know if you connection there, but you talk about like all the guys from coming from the pulse, and then you got the guys coming from the sci fi stuff. And I the terms Gin said are the hyperborean one, which is a more fantastical one. But if you could cover that all in magazines that get readily distributed, because this is how people read back then, like not everyone was

Oh for sure.

And I cut out there for a minutes. I missed gen statements there. I can put a book hand here, like cut out a game.

You're getting back. Okay.

What I was getting out there with all these folks is you know, they're this, this whole sci fi writers crew is they're they're all kind of doing these weird sexual proclivities.

Generally with children. Oh yeah, and with Arthur C.

Clark, so bad that they the British government brandished him to Sri Lanka. That's pretty bad. When you got Prince Andrew, his uncle Seville. You know Clement Freud. Clement Freud's is six son of a bitch, uh segment four, it's grandson they're all run around the UK and they said, Arthur, you're doing too much. You got to go to Sri Lanka. So what I'm saying is, what you know, is this at a cult thing that these guys are bending our ideas of space, They're diddling kids to a Sri Lankan level,

But there seems to be something deeper into this occult aspects of it. To me, I don't know enough about the cult. I'm just saying, like, it's weird to me that you're going to invent these ideas of space.

This group of sci fi writers do it on a mass you know, publication scale, and then these people are also in a weird kids stuff just magic stuff too.

But I'm saying the weird kid.

Stuff, Well, what if you really.

Believed right with the magic stuff, right, let's go hand in hand at times, right, what do.

You really what if you they really believe they're channeling spirits like Heidi off and talks about.

I think they really.

Stuff to the movies, dude, Is that what you're saying about right now?

Well, if they really believe it, Like I don't believe in that, Like I don't believe they can even do it, so that I might think you might be anti supernaturalist perspective, which is more my perspective, so I don't. But regardless, they believe that they can and they believe that they're

They're like, but I don't think they I think the angels lie to them, just like John said, and their demons.

Not it's not it's not necessarily demons. It's that they have their.

Own well they call them.

I mean we have to.

I totally get it.

I totally get it.

Outer realm whatever, outer realm.

Okay, that's fine. My host is there was a processed term, So I don't know if I can use that term.

Okay, me won't.

Okay, there's higher realms, the highest realm, right, Like, you can't contact the highest realm if you're clear down here unless you know your ship. And so what you're gonna get when you start doing this solemonic magic is you're gonna get the lower realm first, and they're gonna lie their ass off to you, and then they're going to use all this weird kiddy stuff and debauchery to power up they are.

They're sure what if these, though, are really expressions of like the darkness of their own mind, Like just think of it and away, like the mind does the Carnic.

Cave scenario, dude, is that we're talking about? Yeah, do you think that I agree with manifests?

Can that act as an agent and just manifestation? I mean, I don't know if manifestation is real or not, but like I mean, let's just say, you know, even if you believe that, you believe, are you not contributing to some collective pool of other people doing that like Jen And in that sense, does it make it somewhat real at that point?

Yeah, I believe you think about Giant Marshmalloman in my page.

For sure, I think they're.

Channeling, but not always because not everyone's an adept magician.

So I think gin is right.

There are people that it could go sixes like these people over here are magicians, but these people over here might just be not as stable and in their own head and like still contributing to that debauchery pool that's sesspool. So it could be multiple things, you know.

That's what it is. It's like that's even with the factions with process that's talking about, like the Hollywood connections from scientology, like the people don't have to all alignment and maybe that's a big obviously.

No, right it helps if they're right.

They're not Yeah, yeah, I don't be they are precoherent.

It's like all the you can kind of capture people more. It's more attention grabbing if things are decoherent, because they're like you know, we always joke if you have daddy issues, yeah, maybe you'll become a neopagan because like you have issues with daddy God, so then you'll be like, oh, I'm gonna worship like these other gods. But they're really just the opposite of the thing that you came for, or

Well, and you can achieve only what you believe.

So, like what you said, if somebody is a magician or messing with magical stuff, that doesn't mean everyone is. That's for the elect that's for like the top of the top that have had the access somehow to get into a.

Mystery school type situation.

But the rest of these people, like I always say on my podcast, because people say to me, oh this is so new age or this is oh skip this episode, I'm like, listen to me, it doesn't matter what you believe. It matters what they believe, because what they believe is charging the shit s.

So yeah, even if.

It's not real, like Jin said, like even it could be maybe so, but.

It is the buy in, I guess, kind of the real magic in a sense.

Sometimes.

I mean, yeah, I think Nick can attest like this is for polemonic magic is nothing to be played with on a on a minuscule level. It is big, you know, And so yeah, I don't think normal people would touch it.

That's even the whole problem. When I think people get into the Goatias, they totally forget like the Alms was a three or four of the books prior to that that you're supposed to read about angel, right, It's like, no, I'm just gonna totally at the end of the year, I'm just gonna play with that.

Yeah, you're gonna do yeah, because you can join the one hundred and forty four names, right, because they're really names of the of the same thing, the same entity. I'm not saying I believe it.

I'm just saying that's what well, but if they believe it, And here's the thing, Nix right, Like, that's what I say about Joseph Smith that I really do think he was a magician because Curly tips his hat, so I really do think he channeled. But he didn't do what Nick said and read the previous books to protect his ass and then he made his stupid Jupiter talisman wrong, so he died. That's what happened.

Well, I think he definitely came from like one of those families we'll call it noveldline, but families that played in the polarities, right, because right, he's a sailanm family he inherited like the Bible slash Gromoir, et cetera, et cetera. And so I I, as I've told you hiding many times, I don't dislike. I find Joseph Smith very fascinating personally, yes, yes, but I'm not a Mormon and I'm not affiliate. I don't want to be a Mormon. I'm just clarifying that.

Maybe, But here's the thing, not everybody's at that level. So I think you're right too, Like it's not one person is right. I think it's multitudes of things, because you're right too. Whereas most people don't even know what the goatia is. Go walk up to ten people on the street, They're not going to know what you're talking about.

You's that question You're talking about sausage, like get.

A you know, they will like people don't know even if you start saying like folk magic, maybe they'll know that word, but they're not going to be playing with these things. So I think Gin's right too, where some people are in their own heads and look at how many people just be They're like, oh, I'm so important, and I think that's what the movie stars do, and they're just going too.

They're just a higher level.

Goam most of the time, not always, not always.

I heard your comment about Joseph Smith, Chen, and you claim not to be Mormon. I'll uh appreciate you out yourself as not a Mormon. Never asked you that question, clarified that. But my fault, Jena Ninja not a Mormon. It's more, it's more my delimited fault not not asking you that, not verifying. I I asked Glenna he was a scientologist. I also didn't ask me he was a Mormon. So I failed again.

There were all Mark Safe.

We weren't Mark Safe yesterday. We weren't Mark.

Oh yeah, I don't know what was over that.

So I like to look at Joseph Smith this way, Jenna, to piggyback on your comment, is I look at it like Charles Manson. He's he's kind of a part of American folklore, right, He's this very intriguing character. Did a lot of the same things in fact, but he's very intriguing character, is very much a part of the American folklore. You know, the landscape of American folklore, right as much as you know.

So I'll say this, so.

I'll retract my thing about not being a Mormon. I'm definitely not a Mormon. No, I'm not a Mormon. I did retract it because I'll say this, I am interested in like speculative American narcissism. I think that's a really interesting idea, and i think that's what they were all

About the Mormons too much.

Don't feel bad, Okay, Well that's why those things have to come together in synthesis because it's like the discrimination with the perception at the same time, like you have to be able to discern what you're seeing. You can't just believe it all. So that's the fire and the water thing. And I also think if I was a Mormon, I would actually tell you that, oh you are Mormon water or the world's going to end in fire. You would pick a side. But I'm saying the tipperatic reasoning is stronger.

So I'm saying meet well, just because I say that they aren't what I would do. Remember, my whole problem with them is not the history, not the studying, not all of it.

Is that they are lying. They lie their asses off and harness the energy.

So here's my problem is, like I said on the show the other day, what we were on, I said, listen, I got no problem with the church. If they would come out and say that they're just a magical order, and and then there was silence and we moved on.

So maybe that's what you're here. Maybe you're here to like say like, yeah, we're coming.

On right, like just.

And let them use their own magic and stop stop using people.

I hate that, so I appreciate your thoughts. They are elder gen you sound like lower damons.

You gotta change your name now it's going to be elder ninja.

Or you have to say the ninja, not the elder.

I wouldn't that would give me a lot of cache on on.

I g.

Oh, yeah, I would get all the call accounts would follow me. What what name?

What name?

Frater freighter gin.

That's a very pop right, that's kind of right.

I mean they're all they're all talking about it, though, they're all being like, oh, we remake and.

We'll call Nick Broyer Nick, and we'll call Heidi Sawyer Heidi.

Because see, if you know, if you realize I've I've already changed my name. I don't think anybody knows since people can just call themselves doctors and they're not. And I'm going to say I'm a cardinal.

We're a doctor, right, you're not a doctor.

No, no, but I mean if you don't have to be, you could just clease, I guess. So, yeah, I'm a cardinal, the cardinal with the ocult rejects. So now whenever I say anything anything occult, you can't even question me because I have that fake name.

We have to now listen, since we're all a cult rejects. When we come on, we have to say, we have to give our homage to Cardinal Nick.

There some of the stupidest shi do every episode whenever Nick, you.

Yea cardinal, fe over here.

See.

I respect the hierarchy.

I have no idea there once like what the hell are they?

Yeah, you know, I I'm all for the I'm all for like titles before your name. Just everybody's a doctor until proven otherwise, and.

Usually they prove otherwise.

So yeah, sorry, because they just make ones on Twitter. You go on there and big guy with like sixty thousand followers, it's like, hey, guys, take every shot right now, everything or I'll and they just do that and you're like, what are your credentials?

And they're like just just some demons.

Yeah I'm a democrat.

Yeah, yeah, exactly, I'm a doctor obviously that's my that's my crentel.

So you know, if you could if there as much of a doctor as you are a cardinal.

So well, I am a nurse and I really am a nurse. So there's that and that's true. Yeah, And actually I found it funny the other day because there was an explanation that I'd never heard before, and I wondered if it was because I actually am in the medical field.

But that was just my suspect. So we can cut this part out.

Not the vice president. I'm not just playing with I wish you were ye.

Vote for you start, just run, dude.

And Jin is going by Friday. Jin Now, so.

Oh my gosh, I didn't change it.

I did.

It changed. That shouldn't be, but it makes so much more sense.

I don't want to join an order.

I already got.

You, guys.

Everybody both in the l d S do.

If you go back to the olden days of Joseph Smith, they did call each other Broyer and Sawyer. In the Mormon f l d S Church, they still do. And if you know about magical orders, as Nick and j J, I'm sure Jin, you guys know that's a magical name. Yeah.

Well even in the in the O t O, well you got a brother and the sister and once you become a member, yep.

But they literally say Broyer and Sawyer still in that family. Yeah, oh you're good. I just I find it fascinating. And I only know that because my sister married U, one of the top pluggies out there. So no disrespect to anybody. But he was Warren just nephew, so oh yeah, right, yeah, but he's a nice guy. He's out, he's out.

Yeah.

But yeah, it got weird, I'll say, I mean that's that's that's a connection.

Oh yeah, I well it was. And and poor him because like what did he ever do?

You know what I mean?

He just trying to get out but someone's name.

But he went to Texas well, I mean he was in it, and he wrote a book about this. But he went to Texas and he was part of the whole thing. And then he got kicked out and all this stuff. But he was named in all the books when they arrested him, so they wouldn't give his kids back because they thought that he was in on stuff.

He was supposed to be one of the next profits.

And so yeah, it was a whole sounds like some politics want to play a role in that too, right.

Yeah, he didn't get him back. They gave him back to the Plagamis people. I was like, what, why would you just give him back to her? She's just gonna He never saw him again for eight years.

Wow.

Yeah, it sounds like scientology and their disconnections, right.

It was. They gave away his wife before he even drove home. He got in trouble. He was supposed to report to the Brethren, and before he even got there, they had already moved his wife, give her away, give his kids away.

Damn. They're expedient, nothing else. They're fast.

They got to make prove it proves that scientology is using the same framework.

Yes, yeah, so that that's what makes me get real weird about life when I see an offshoot of scientology Nexium aka what I like to now call the Albany Chapter of the Processed Church of the Final Judgment. They never closed, they just morphed into the Nexium. They're you know, on paper, they're you know, squirrels if you will, Scientologists using l Ron's practices outside of Scientology.

They call them squirrels.

So you know, Keith Raniery was up there, squirrel and not to be confused with Richard Gear and his jerbilin. Maybe maybe maybe.

They didn't say don't don't roll it out, don't roll it out.

Can't be certain, So it's weird when they're down there in Mexico running child sex trafficking operations, you know the stuff. Wheer he got convicted for Alison Mack, you know, rolled over on them about the they're employing nannies from the lebarn.

You do not want them watching your kids. They might be dead when you get.

Neary wanted and watch good. They're the same. There's some young lady.

Ohs got him?

God, I don't know.

Yeah, j J come back, come up back thought, Yes, those next to Nanny's from Albany to Mexico, the child forms of Mexico to the headquarters of their mothership in Albany.

Half Moon Lake I think is the name of the town outside of Albany.

Connection that is weird.

Yeah, they were employing those girls as nannies and they get marked when We'renier he's on trial, they get marked right by a Mexican drugs.

The barons, the lebarons don't have any problem marking anybody on.

Well, they were a little baron. I mean they may it may have been you telling me this is a Mormon meadows At massacre situation.

Oh that is such an interesting there there is.

Yes, there's nineteen barons. Mormon masters don't even considered that. That makes a lot of sense.

Yes, you know, weirdest about that the metal those massacre.

So you're saying it.

Wasn't the Mexican drug card tales. The the Bears did themselves. Damn it, Heidi, that's a good point.

I'm sorry, but.

Yes, Yo, doesn't that ship for around then he's on. They're getting hammed up up there in court in New York City for all these child sex trafficking.

These girls were witnesses.

Yep.

They have no problem taking out their own and they have proved it in the past.

So that's a great point. This is a great point.

I find that situation where you say, Nick, I think I find that situation very very weird. That whole metal metal uh whatever Mountain massacre.

We're actually talking about the La Bearon massacre. There the le barons shot each other up, brothers and everything. We should do a show on that.

Because Oh yeah, they were themselves, weren't they. That's right, Yes, yeah, they were killing within the family.

Was Joseph Smith around the idea?

No?

Was it was Joseph Smith around during that time.

No, this was a bri Brigham job.

Brigham boy, the Mormon Meadows massacer, the old the old false flag where the Natives did it, right, I mean, I mean.

That again and like you know the Mexican Drug Hotel.

They've been playing that game for a long time because uh, well we know that Joseph's great great grandpa was the.

Head of the Boston Tea Party.

And what did they do. They blamed it on the Native Americans.

Oh yeah, they just like to do that.

Yeah, that's the playbook for sure.

Yeah.

So isn't the dates on that Metal Mountain Metal Metal Mountain Metals massacre.

It's September eleventh, Yeah.

They said it's anyway, it's between September seventh and or the eleventh.

I've seen and I'm like, well eleventh is the massacred date.

And that was like, but if you if you incorporate the seventh, that also takes out Building seven. So I mean it's even more symbolism. And I've always like found it interesting. How you did you get the m M M that I'm not saying that's directly well metal mountain, right, is that what it's called? Mountain mountain metals massa. Yeah, there were three, And you have Oliver Croadery, which is very close to the crowdy. So I do I do wonder about him honestly ripping off Mormon history in his ship.

I think he has.

Well, that's kind of the idea, right, they recycle the same the masters sent this over and over and over our masters. Yeah, I actually prefer different stuff for us.

So but no, uh no, it makes sense.

They're recycling the same Western westward story.

Right.

They're playing out the biblical narrative right as they go, you know, like they're saying it's real. They're saying, Okay, maybe it's real, maybe it's not real, but it happened here. So like Utah is the center. But then we also know that there's like some kind of longitudinal line or something that they thought was magical that connects Utah to Mexico City. So I mean that basically explains like Mormonism in a nutshell they're like magicians who prefer like a particular lay line.

You're saying, massacre situations like a like a psio psychodrama. It's not just a sciop but it's an a cult written psychodrama.

Yeah, I mean that's how I think, that's how Mormons like things. But it can also be it can just be the way they describe things too, Like people can totally lie right in fiction. That's the power of fiction. That's why. That's why, like you know, was saying, like all the pulp writers they started with each other.

Yeah, you know what, I was just thinking, this is like really weird, Like, let's let's Jones today, that Crowley was pulling some ideas from those stories. Then when we go to nine eleven in our nine to eleven and all the plane numbers are associated with curly books, what the fuck out of the fuck does that happen? Now he's still a connection between both is.

Because the next magicians tip their hat to him.

No, Nine eleven was obviously Babylon working.

Yeah, it's all hat.

The buildings you could say were the Kaba. They even were black tinted and they had gold compressed Sufi writing, right.

They had the twin in gold.

So that's very like Merkaba in Saudi Arabia. That's very tifferatic. Actually, people often think it's like Black Keep of Saturn, and yeah, there's an element of that, but really, because it's glass, you have to say it's more tifferratic, it's more brittle, it's more of the sun, it's more easily destroyable. So they obviously were like and those were built in like nineteen seventy seven.

It's like, yeah, by the Rock Brothers, whould like to point out that Old Nelson was one heartbeat away from being president. His long lifelong dream just happened to be two Manson girls try to pop off Old Gerald.

Ford they were president, destroyed it Psycha to usher in the new ann Right, that's what this is all about. Yeah, imagine that has different preferences of like what they think that will be yep.

Well, and especially yeah, when you study the parchments, Joseph's ideals were very different than Brigham's. I would love to see what his family parchments are, but we will never know, uh, because they don't exist.

Apparently.

Yeah, I'm completely sold that that was in the nine to eleven situation was the Thlea mc ritual, this Babylon work and stuff you're talking about here and sounds about what I what I recall reading about in Wayne Ramsay's book, and he sld me.

Then that sold me on that idea.

Years ago, And then you know, I've been long convinced that Barbara Bush is the is the daughter of Crowley.

Heard this and I'm not against it.

The definitive prove.

Their circumstantial evidence based upon his journals and the dates in which they were in the same house and the sex magic he was writing about doing.

Yeah, go ahead, sorry to do now.

I'm just saying that seems like it's not even just the date of her birth and that her mother knew him. It's like they're in the same house. He's writing about doing sex rituals with the women in the house, and then the dates matchup.

Mm hmm. And she looks just like them, Yeah she does.

She does look just like very strapping, very very uh gorgeous lady, very man lady, gorgeous man, lady guy.

Yeah.

Yeah, it's even scarier. Some of George's daughters looked just like him, like Lord of Mercy. That's a strong gene they got there in that grew Jane, you.

Better to look like George.

In my opinion, Well, that's it's very you know, it's like very like I'm going to plant my seeds all over the world, very literal way to say it, like a more interesting I think this is more me. But I think it's more interesting to do it with words, because words are actually the seeds if you really understand, if you really have the understanding. No, but words are really the seeds. So it's not it's just conceptual, right,

I guess they're literal. They're literalists, say one.

They're literalists, just like another podcaster that we know, he's like very literalist with Book of.

No No.

Not him, there's a different one. But JJ famously asked me if he was a Mormon on Live Oh, because he takes it very seriously, like he takes it almost literally, like he's saying about like real whatever all that stuff.

And nice guy. I was joking with him.

But when after the show, you know, obviously I saw in his philosophies of the philosophies of Mormonism, and so I jokingly, what do you Mormon? And after the show, Jenson message is like, I think that guy might be warm like you saw it too, Okay, that the only one definitely gnostic now, but yeah, and that is that is really what the Mormon. A lot of the stuff he was saying that it was that I recognized for

Right, Well, I mean again, and that not to beat a dead horse here, and you know it, JJ really is the one who said this. I just like to repeat it more. But but you said something along this lines, you know when you really saw looking at like uh, kind of like a lot of conspiracy theories and if you start throwing in you know, Christ in there, you

And then I have a show coming up on this, you guys, it's very gnostic Mormons.

Because Nassism is really interesting, and it's because they made it taboo. I'm not even saying the institutional church. I'm just saying that there's been a cultural shift to kind of make it transgressive cool, you know, like there's the timing of the books and like even the texts that are preferenced like that have been translated and distributed widely, like even in use by some of the guys who run the nastic churches, like Nick. You just had one

That was great. When I asked him about that, that face he made it that played it it wasn't important.

I'm like, come on, He's like, I do have it on a mount He's like, waite, and I shouldn't tell you.

Yeah, you even see his face. Je. Sorry that we interrupted. It was just so obvious question.

No, but I think that people like like he I don't agree with his interpretation of nascism at all, just to go on the record and say it like I don't agree.

I agree with you not agreeing. I listened to that interview and I was not agree with any of it.

Like I'm not literalist at all. I don't think it's meant to be transgressive. I think it's talking about Christianity in just like a very esoteric way. I don't think it's wrong. I actually think it aligns very much with the we'll call it coubleistic intentions of like Christian thurgy or Christian hermeticism, whether you're talking about Pico or more

All lies.

They always lie. Just remember that, you, guys, if you think you're a magician, or you think that angels or whatever have your best interests at heart, always remember these stories and about John D. They lie their ass off, so there's that.

Yeah, yeah, well I mean even look at I mean they were they were known for lying and scamming John D and Kelly.

So yep, well interesting, very interesting. I did not read the book, but I'm glad I was here for this chat because it's been fun.

Yeah.

If I could say one thing about the pulp, I'm going down like a pulp or like kind of a nineteen hundred's pulp rabbit hole here.

You know who else started.

Writing in the pulps was Michael p Hodell. I don't know if you know the last name Hodell. It is the apparently the son I think he's There was a thing about Michael p Hodell who was born and people don't know who is actual father, as people say it's John Houston a lot of people and everybody knows how

Nother super interesting though I love I might have more than you know, WELLO loves Lovecraft with the Typhoni and folks, the two offshoot.

Well, Alron is a lot more tied. End if we listened to what Dana said say, Dana said that al Ron was the father of Mike Lockino.

She's she's building a stronger case as time goes by that.

It's something she she alleges, and there's some circumstantial evidence to support that there is for sure.

Right, I'm not saying I believe it or not. I'm just speculative.

No, I mean, well, it makes it kind of kind of tracks along with this whole club of this network. So when I say club with this network. So John Houston, George Hotellen, Gang Hodell being the the abortion doc.

To the stars of you Will he lived in the canyon by the way, all Laurel Canyon.

But yeah, he lived in that that uh mayan him right, the what's the name of that dude, the famous architect Frank Lloyd? Right, thank you, sir Brinkley. Yeah, that's a strange as.

Little Yeah, that's that's a very old house. If you if you kind of know what he was into it kind of it's like you can tell it's like that's an occultis house for sure.

If I had.

Thank you, thank you, thank you, you both nailed. That's exactly I was getting. It's a moment to do a ritual human sacrifice in this mind temple.

What are we talking about? You know what I mean?

Yeah, So John Houston's underling was Jack Nicholson.

Yes, oh, absolutely, he made his longest relationship was with Angelica Houston.

Uh.

And yeah, then we bring in Roman plans with the fate pcident at that Angela Houston and Jack Nicholson's house.

But George, George.

Hotel, don't forget Bob Cocaine Evans in that group there were he was off in that mix as well. Well, i's got to give credit to him and all these sort of.

And you keep everybody high the whole time too, you know.

Well, and Jack Nicholson's history is the same as Ted Bundy's where my Mom's my grand My Grandma's my Mom, and.

Then the movie My Mom Grandma and then the movie about incest murder. So it's just like you know, this is from Tellers of Weird Tales, this old blog. It's a good blog. But George Hodell fathered eleven children by five women. He had four sons with Dorothy Harvey Houston, ex wife of movie director John Houston. Steve Hodell was born in November nineteen forty one. He had a twin brother who died in infancy. Another dead kid, Kelvin Hodell,

So these are all yeah, this is it's all weird, like, yeah.

It's all thanks cold bits, right, all much sex culture, all banging each other.

What about Tomorrow Hodell. Yeah, I don't know much about Tomorrow Hodell, but that's it. There's a lot there it is. Yeah, there it is. I see it.

Yeah, sounds like they were having a hoe down. I mean Hodell, right.

You know it Hollywood style right in the Mayan Temple. But so Tomorrow Hodell, I believe, would go on to take on John Phillips' daughter. After John Phillips is raping his daughter. You know, mister he was fine. He was financing the process of Lax Saviti's mister Moms in the papas the Phillips Tomorrow Hodell connection. So I believe the story goes he was raping his daughter and Tomorrow's like, well, my dad used to rape me, so you can come in with me now says your dad's raping you.

You know that kind of deal, one of them deals. It came like a surrogate mother too, I believe.

Well that was a big part of ideology. Right, it's like eroding it seems to be right, it seems to be Yeah.

And also the person who took over the Black Dahlia murder, the person who took over the Black Dahlia murder case after a long time Steve Hodell, son of George Hodell. And it also was the Rodney Alcala case, the uh, the dating game, killer guy. So it's kind of weird, weird a lot of Hodell family, you know. I mean that that's it's very like programmed to kill kind of territory. But like it's it's very very the Hodell family is very interest because I met when we're talking about pulps.

The whole like inbred child like mutilating.

A girl and then preparing her for a you know, another ritual, kind of surgical ritual and stuff like that kind of kind of tracks to me, honestly more than.

Any a lot of.

Well, I think there's something interesting with what Glenn said, Like there's this kind of very love crafty and element to the pulps, and then you can look at like

Yeah.

So you know that's kind of the positivistic lens, and people are always like, oh, yeah, that's so culted.

Yeah it is.

It's very you know, it's very innochy, and it's very like shem adamanteene Man. I mean, there's so many characters that fit that role, Captain Marvel, Superman, Wolverine, I mean Wolverine exactly, he's a literal Adamante man. So I mean, you have all these ideas that it's basically the same character but he's kind of recycled. But he's generally a good guy. But then you have like the love crafty and things where it's like, oh yeah, you can bend

To mill Disney Disney all day long.

You can put that on Private Detective too. Private Detective is like I'm going to solve this murder my way.

Oops.

You know, just a lot of these these things and it taps into a different male fantasy of of.

That of that element. So it's like, man, the pulps, the pups need to be studied. M I agree.

It's some good stuff there. I think a lot of stuff. I discussed that a lot of operations GCD. We just uh recently did a n cold esoteric view of The Golden Child m H six cinematic masterpiece starring Eddie Murphy.

Yeah, it was very interesting from there.

Well, I listened to Ken McLeod give an interview, like several interviews, just like I did, but for Glenn and for obviously Jdo is coming on my show very soon, so I had to listen to that. And he's on Rare Candy a lot, so right, so I so, you know, so I had to as I've been listening, so it's the same thing. So I listened to him before I did that episode. He is a very interesting person the way he speaks, Ken McLeod. He's like talking about Buddhism. He says he's a Buddhist, that no reason not to

Yeah, I mean, I know my co host on Ray Andy does remote viewing. I mean, he was straight up does it. He does it to as as predictive, like a predictive element, and like tests it out and spreadsheets it out and stuff, and uh, he applies it to like sports because there's a there's a binary like win loss metric to it and stuff, and that's where he

I know that I know that you wouldn't be Yeah, Andrea Poohovich is your answer on that, Andrea, A lot of scientologys involved in this.

From viewing the guys who perpetrated this through Sri, I who are You're a Geller's.

Handler's Well, you're a Geller's handler was Andreavich.

This was after he be parted ways. He went over there to see the scientologists.

Ry.

I can't think these are the guys that are perpetrating all these alien nonsense to the here today more to mercy. I can't think of their names. There's two signs. Yeah, thank you sir. The Disclosure fellas hal put Off financed

But relative to you know, well you now they got to talk about the Rockefellers.

Isn't it weird how they're the ones financing all these ancient Allian cargo cult stuff. I often wonder their connections of scientology because they they funded Zacharai's session.

They had Jordan Maxwell.

He had an office in Rockefeller Center, right down the hall from Stitch, you know, and uh after he left the Mothership with the Jehovah's witnesses, and then you got Laurence Rockefeller financing career, and then what he finances this essentially goes in becomes Skinwalker Ranch.

He finances the onset of that, the pretty big Olow era of that.

Oh wow, yeah, so.

A lot of weird stuff, a lot of weird Lenda Multon House, she comes out of that.

Oh god, yeah you're going to react that way.

She gets, Oh shit, Yeah, she's something else. She's a funny one. I actually think those kind of mutilations are more of a cult symbolism than probably even Yeah, I like that idea.

I agree with that, h especially if people are scared of it, because I would like amplify.

Right, that's called fared, does it not?

Especially if you have a mass. A mass populace is like yeah, we believe in aliens are coming down like literal aliens, right, well, what are aliens really?

Because they call their god loheme. So I'm saying maybe. I think maybe it started.

With a real situation and then they took it to the max capacity and used it for their own n occult you know, advancement. I mean, why wouldn't they.

Because angels suppose it quote unquote air quotes JJ of have to do it for me air quotes, Angels tell you to do something, You don't have to do it, you have free will. Yeah, yeah, then that's like That's the thing that I think is actually interesting about some of the earlier Telema stuff is they emphasize this kind of idea of like no, you will, Like I've heard Nick say this a ten million times and even hear it in my head, like his voice and his accent saying it.

But no.

I think that that's interesting because it's like do you buy in? Like that's what Glenn said, Like how much buy in is you know, needed to make it work? And I think even the little bit buy in makes it work. But I think that the real idea is just like do you understand this beyond what they're doing like it. You can say it's just a fiction project,

Just like Hubbard the Antichrist. And and then if they're not, if they're not a god, then they're the opposite. Right, But it's always one of the two. It's always one of the.

Process, right, it's the the reconciliation of opposites.

M hm, this is just a balistic sorry heading.

Yeah, so I was just gonna say Hubbard got his ideas no different than Joseph Smith got his ideas, no different than Crowley got his ideas, no different than John d got his ideas. You start messing with shit, you call shit down, they tell you to do something, and then they want you to write a book, but then swap wives or have sex with kids, and then bam, yeah, well that's.

How they interpret that exactly what as you just said, the reconciliation of opposites because this is like a primordial metaphysical truth. This this like transcends all traditions, like this idea we'd nick jokes synthesis, right, No.

It's synthesis. I think that's the way I look at It's how they embody is living with nature. They have to do what nature does. It's the reconciliation of opposites.

Right, but they take it to the extremes of those they prefer. We talked about it is like hode in net sock, like they really love they go creature, right, and then they also love like the kind of like the transgression like fun bliss in the world. Right, So they take those opposites, but it's really not it's really they're taking it as it's like they're the god kind of like I have what.

You're saying, I interrupt you.

Well, here's one thing I know in scientology.

I was looking up they say that, okay, that the advanced whatever what are they called?

The Theatans live in the schoolans.

Live in the skull and and boy did that ding me for why they have Geronimo's skull and skull and bones?

Like I was like, is this why they have this?

Like like it doesn't matter.

It doesn't matter what we believe.

It matters what they believe.

We're back to that. And so I was like, is that why they're doing this with that? And they still won't give it back because they gave back a school, but it was a child's school, that's bs And so it just goes right back to school and bones and and it's always older than religion. It's always older, just like you guys are saying, it's it's it's not it's not one thing, it's it's something way bigger, like you said, it's synthesis.

So and for me, it always goes back to Babylon.

There you go, right, it's not the you know, it's not the other numbers.

Yep, that's the one in this Its like these extremes and like the extremities of the tree. It's like it's truly that's where it is. And and they say, like all things are recupied in yourself and you sewed. So I don't know, Yeah, I think that they just take it way too extreme. I think they should all just be just like me, smoke some pot, be like okay in.

The world, you know, settle down.

Geezer Gin Yeah, they need to settle it down.

And see that's why it can't be elder gin because yeah, I'm saying they all should follow Dharama. So I'm actually being like Darma, I'm Dharma pelling them all.

Well, you might help them, That might be good if I may to finish my point on these folks being loney to these ideas we're discussed and here, like that's what I was gettingt with the remote viewing with how put off and is it scientology associate who they're basically the ones who ran these remote viewing projects, right, Like they're the ones who brought us these ideas, you know, Like is this some sort of weird magical ritual they're trying to perpetrate? Like I'm not saying folks don't have

They're trying to make people buy into their story, their version of events.

Yeah, but is there something bigger to it? It seems like there's some removiewing.

Remote viewing is better when everyone's doing it. It straight up works more when when there's more people doing it, Like sure, it just does so I mean, the idea is is like if you get everybody, I understand the co opting of it.

I totally would. If I was in charge, I would be like, oh.

That's exactly, that's exactly what is because I'm good with the mechanics, mind and what you're saying. The volume of folks do it. But yeah, it's the co opting, right, especially when you have Kevin Spacey and George Clooney perpetrating these ideas in a Hollywood film.

Although they're ushering in fake disclosure so that everybody will believe that their God comes to get them with this whole project Bluebeam crap, and then they suck them all into the weird cyberspace.

I mean yeah, but in that book, even the even the film The Minute Sarah Goach is written by a creepy character named John Ronson. He's got a weird background. But the uh, nonetheless, it's again, what what are they trying to do here?

Is this a program?

It seems like a program. I can identify a program when I seen one, you know, the Mormon audis I'm talking about. I've seen these programs before. Organized stuff here.

Oh absolutely, they're like you know, they they're all in, I think a lot of them really believe in some weird shit like things that I would think are weird. And I'm pretty flexible that the way I think, so yeah.

You know it was with these things, I just I just want to know what their stick is, like, what's their end game with doing the way they're the way they're framing it, the way they're packaging, and what's what's there.

In Maybe they're just harnessing the energy from it. Once again, go well, there's that.

I mean it.

I had a military application, like a straight up like actual military application, and whatever you want to believe this or.

Not is up to once but yeah, again it's this is something.

There's a guy named Lynn Buchanan who was the I think the subject of the Men Who Scare Sterret Gootes. He was the guy one night that he had a uh I wish my co host s. I was you, you guys gotta have him on and talk to him about this. He's really good stuff and he uh he he basically did the whole I can't it's like the Drew barrymore like Stephen King firestarter thing with your mind.

We are going to go do this. We're gonna go handle this situation. That's just what he was saying.

This dude's saying the shit on like podcasts like nothing like he and I believe it to an extent. Now, I'm sure it's much bigger than that obviously, Like it's never just going to be used in that whole Like we need to get here, how do we get here kind of situation. There's going to be this deeper meaning to it. But it has a direct military application, sure,

That happened, I did not know that. Yeah, it invaded the gambling community. No, it's selling military stuff. And you're talking about the army operation and that was the minister ghost technically speaking, was the army operation. SRI predated that the scientologists did, That's what I'm saying. So their stuff was based up on the SRI stuff of how put off and interesting in.

Friend Yeah, and Elron Geller.

El Ron Hubbard, I know, the whole time law thing.

But he's spent what the whole sixties, like sailing the whole time, and you just wonder, like what he's doing on that ship the whole time, dude just probably just probably just some sort of like mass conscious event type situation that he was trying to trying to conduct on it.

He was doing somewhere else.

He wasn't just on the ocean. He was in London, m oh go ahead, Jane.

No, I'm just saying that what Glenn said, that's the end goal, Like that would be the end goal to have like a total buy in by like maybe you could say a.

Small no outside, nothing outside you just the water, you know what I'm saying.

Yeah, like you're hermeneutically sealed, because it's like how Heidi talks about like when you're born a Mormon, like in a more conservative Mormon family, you're not really allowed to have the outside influence this.

Yeah, they cut it off and no, And I don't know if you guys have seen the Paul Thomas Anderson film The Master. That's oh yeah, that's l Ron Hubbard plus Thomas Pinsion, like parapolitical stuff essentially. Oh yeah, based off Thomasson's v Yeah, it's a great movie. And Philip Seymour Hoffin does a great Hubbard. He can't say he's doing it for all this legal liability stuff, but he's.

Doing got murdered. You have to think.

You have to think because you're light. I mean, because I never heard of a drug addiction to him. I maybe he did, but I was I was weird. It was taking crazy shots of heroin. They said, it was suicidal.

But yeah, of course, yeah, but if you know, it's it's the perfect scientileicsy frame job because they don't understand drugs properly because they hate him, so they think it's some guy who did heroin twenty years ago. Is something going to go buy forty seven small baggies of heroin and then do a large volume of it and lying his bed with a bag.

He's just kind of way across the belly, you know what I mean? Like, yeah, that makes sense. That's what a drug overdose looks like. You know what I mean.

What I'm saying is somebody who did not understand drug overdoses right literally had staged that drug overdose and so they weren't very smart about it, and they were you know, they weren't very uh surgical, if you will.

And in that film, you get you get the classic scene from that film is when l Ron Hubbard is trying to heal el Ron Hubbard Carriatter is trying to heal a woman and just through talking to her while she's in some kind of in between state, and everybody in the rooms bought in except one guy. There's one guy that goes, huh, I don't know about that basically, and it ruins the entire thing, not because he's being called out as a fraud, but because you've ruined the

I love it.

I might watch it again after what we talked about today. Oh, I think it's a great film.

And Paul Thomas Anderson and Philip Seymour Hoffman were high on my list of secret scientologists, largely due to their associations with Tom Cruise, but so I highly recommend Paul Thomas Anderson's You mentioned Thomas Bencheon Thomas Benscheon's novel and hair advice that he did. Great film tells the story of the Manson family and the processed church activities in around the Manson family in Los Angeles, including the maschinations of politics, the Cold activity, un trafficking.

Vietnam drug trafficking. Yeah.

Well, and it's it's exactly how I described Narcanon. So they're part of the process that is described in that film of the organized crime outfit that I just was describing, which is representative of the actual process, and they're organized crime crime composite of how they work out. Well that they're talking about how they're getting hooked on the drugs then sending them, then they send them to get you know, to.

The rehab right.

Well, that's exactly precisely what they're doing with Narcanon today. I mean, and like the majority of jurisdictions in America, you can get fooked on scientology just by inadvertently getting mandated to go to rehab from the court.

Well there's something you said, Jaja, that's really interesting. I don't know about narcanon or that program at all, only from what I've heard from you, But alan On really storage stick.

To it, Elder Jen, you know you're that way. Don't never get confused to be a scientilogist. Never heard of arcanon, Please tell me about it.

No, I've heard of Narcanon. I don't know anything about like how to work it or anything. But I'm saying alan On the guy who did the alan On, So I don't know if it's the same foundation. And we'll call it I'll use a magic word. So he was drawing from magic. He was drawing from Melany P. Hall. He was talking about new thought. All those people like it because they had that stuff, like all that stuff that people talk about on Twitter, like manifestation. Yeah, they

And so that does sound like a Mormon.

Yeah yeah, well it's the nextus point between all those things, right because like going clear the same mighty in Kabala, like they're just they're teaching people metaphysics, but in like kind of a fucked up klipolithic way.

Well, it sounds like you think there's a and I agree with you, there's a good utility for some of that stuff though, right, Like it's not.

Oh yeah, I think I think your part at all.

You don't.

I'm on the same mind where I'm like everything this exists, this doesn't. I don't have to handle it with like Homer. I mean, maybe you do have to handle it with Claire, but like you don't have to dangerous. I think to seclude yourself or to like I should say, exclude yourself from a lot of this stuff would give off a fear, which fear then is almost like said with the cattle mutilations, kind of like whoa, what is that doing?

You know? I never dark without the life?

Yeah, there's never dark without life.

Yeah, exactly right, right right.

I have Heidi and JJ who like kind of hold me back from like full on a best siving and next like go for it.

Even though he became an elder right before our eyes, we are holding gin back.

Yep, No, I'm just seizing. But you guys your name, No, I'm like, but I'm very like, yeah, I think that people should at least study wisdom science be involved in a noetic process, because that's really what I was sure, right, it's like the the like learning about these things, like all the different texts and like, because then you can say like, oh, it's like, uh, I accidentally joke to this on one of the guests and he kind of

Interesting.

I agree.

I often credit the mormontuch for the same way, and like, well, my morning upbringing had some good things too. I credit my conspiracy theory worldviews to my Mormon upbringing in their gnostic belief system, and it is a very nastic belief system, and you can see it through a lot of Mormon activities. Now they manifest differentely mine. They manifested in a farly different you know, man of the most or far different manner the most. A lot of folks just stack about

But like so these are very very.

Much ingrained in the values there, and there's a strong conspiracy. There's worldview, you know, if you will, through this gnostic worldview, So you know, I do, I do, I do appreciate that, But there's a lot of dark things about.

The non sectarian Oscism is totally good, like where you don't take it crazy, but the problem is where you put it in like these containers you can say and like you say.

Oh food.

Well, there's elements of Mormonism that do make sense to me. I'm not again, but it does, like I'm just saying to it, but I don't agree with how they do it, Like I think it can just all be done conceptually, like in your mind. I don't think you need like all this you're.

Should they do like yeah, and they need to be truthful. They're not truthful.

Well, I'm just like, you know, if you want to be mas and just say like that's how I think of it. Let's just like just say what it is. You don't have to tell us like all about.

It, but yeah, tell us what we're doing.

Yeah, Like people who are Mormons, they should be like, yeah, you guys are actually learning Masonic ship.

Yeah.

I definitely deserve to know that I had Mason underwear on and I didn't even know what a Mason was. So I mean that's totally unfair Mormon Church. And that's why I'm coming for you every day straight from Utah. My neighbors hate me.

Yes, I think we're gonna wrap it up here for you guys. Uh yeah, a little bit over two hours and uh I have to get going and so do I. So again, Glenn, thank you so much for coming on. I really appreciate.

Anytime I felt like I was paled in comparison to you guys. But thank you.

You guys open You guys don't realize like how many like doors you guys opened up just from just chatting.

So that's why I love this medium platform.

So anytime you guys gotta Yeah, first off, you guys got to have my co hosts really into parapsychology. But he's just a fun, like to hit hippie guy, so like he's really he's really cool. I would need to hear him on here actually, is what I'm demanding it.

So you guys do guests as well.

I'm sure.

I'm sure we'd love to you know. W Well, well we'll all uh, we'll mix. We'll be like the hotels in the Houstons of podcasts. Yeah, we'll bring all the with us, bring the cards there you go.

Yeah, So Glenn, let everybody know again where they can find your show, please.

Sure, yeah, rare Candy dot subtack dot com. That's where all the writing is and when if you like what I said about fiction, that's where our podcast Gain of Fiction is located there. It's part of like our whole premium feed. You guys understand how that works, of course. And then we're on Apple and Spotify just Rare Candy. It's not a Pokemon podcast, but it started that way. Uh, it didn't start that way, but the name, the name

Anytime. Well, well, I'll be in touch with all of you, I'm sure.

Oh yeah, that was great, thank you, and uh yeah, i'll have your show notes. I'll put everything in the bottom. If you want to, you can just send me everything and uh, I'll make sure that's included in the bottom. And I'll have JJ's and we got a freder Jins and we got Heidi loves that.

I'll add about it.

You got all the links for this shows. Thank you again all for coming on. It was a great show. I appreciate it. It was definitely on a cult Rejex show. And then till the next one. Everyone be well later