Scarlet Imprint with The Occult Rejects

Peter Gray, who is the shit now. I can't even open the thing, of course, I'm sorry, Peter, but you are ocultist, magician, sorcerer of summer now quite a bit and Scarlett Imprint is a major publishing press, probably the biggest, probably the most well known, and I think, well, I'm just going to say the works that I distinctly remember, since I can't actually open the tab for your author's buyer right now, but the what I did in prep for this episode was read at least a little of

Lucifer Princeps, which is your book from twenty fifteen, as well as Lucifer Praxis, which is your newest book from twenty twenty five. I think it's very ionic, very interesting. I also listen to your great episode from October with Gordon White, and I know that you have written extensively on the Babylon and Babylon workings with your partner Alkiste Alkisi. I hope I said that correctly, okus, see, thank you, and so I'm really excited. I know everybody is really excited.

I'm a little nervous, so I apologize, but you know, I think this will be really generative and really interesting, especially because we have been speaking as a show. Not it's not my show, but I think in general and all the shows offshoot from Rejects have been speaking on ionic current satic work, and I think to sort of uncover the Lucifer current is probably the most occulted. I think Peter has spoken this about this extensively, but the most occulted of all. So, uh, you got you can, Peter.

You can say anything you want to say about your own work and introduce yourself in the ways that you would like to. But thank you so much and from all of us, and I'll just say it like that, And obviously Nick please introduce yourself and plug your show.

amazing people. Big fan of Scarlett Imprint and what they're doing, so if anyone watching does.

Tarot stuff, some really interesting projects. On my pin to your post, we can learn a little bit more, but also can dm me.

seven seven the Cabbala of Alisair Crowley with Nick. So also I have the Sunday Trialogus with Ethan Indigo and at some point during the week, probably Wednesdays now, we're going to be doing more rust at Gods, so check that out as well.

state kind of to an extent. And I wonder if that's uh, that's like an intriguing thing from magicians too, to start finding things to get into, you know, it's uh, I think it's a plus. I think it helps strengthen that type of practice. I don't know if that's maybe your thoughts as well.

men's magical practice. All the things which were which was seen as kind of developing the superpowers in the body, which was the initial impact that we had from kind of the return of Empire and the Indian approaches to yoga coming across, and they've dropped out a lot. I think people have become far too, far too in their heads about things.

so much because the body is so incredible. My background is as a dancer before it became whatever it is I do now in Scolar imprint and which is like one hundred jobs. But I approached magic. I came into magic from a background, non magical in a way like I had, I had experience in there's some Eastern modalities like chigong and so on. But at dance, Yeah, what am.

words are really the least important thing. They're really what you kind of try to drag out of the dream state or the magical state, when you're in ritual, when you're in a when you're possessed, or you're incorporating as like the word Gordon uses for possession, you know, trying to get across that barrier, bringing something out of that space that you can communicate that kind of serves as an anchor or even a kind of you know, something you bring that can allow you access and so words

of that. If they're successful, they're not about showing off how clever you are or how accomplished you are. That's really like that's between you and your soul. Really, that has like a fock call to do with what we're talking about, the least interesting thing of magic.

that's exactly, and that's magic. And that's the difference between like for some reason, the West seem to like separate things or the East integrates their embodied practice with their magical practice.

teach during the day. I do private lessons with all sorts of martial arts, but the kung fu is the embedded are.

Would you say that maybe like sometimes like that would be the same thing, like when you're doing like your physical stuff, like when you're riding your bike, could you find yourself kind of like in that state and then all of a sudden the idea pops into your head and you end up going with it when you get home or anything like that.

the work of successful magicians. So if you look at someone like Andrew Chulmley, I'm not a huge fan of his work, but what he did very effectively was he was able to create a set of feedback lips with his unconscious and build an entire entire world out of it in the way in the way that Lynch.

But my process, yeah, my process is I pursue those things which are interesting to me, and I returned to I begin with inspiration, and I return to two cortex. I returned to the original sources of everything I possibly can. I spend a lot of time, a lot of time on work, like a preposterous amount of time. And I'm I'm not I'm not the only writer that has this problem.

So been writing them and writing a piece of substanct for about a month and a half now, which has probably cost me several one hundred pounds in terms of like the folks that have had to order down, how's a pointless research.

can write very fluidly and produce material pretty quickly. But generally for me, a good writing session I have I have four hours of writing in me before I'm done, Like that's that's the maximum that I can do in the single session general. And then and then I can't I generally can't get more than that out during the day. But yeah, writing it's a it's an obsessive it's an obsessive madness with the reward. The reward is the work.

Have you ever found any really interesting gems from these occult authors that you never would have found without their sort of special way of looking at the world.

they haven't moved on. So it's I like to try and encourage people to read more widely outside of the occult. It's very common for me to find people who who have a phenomenal occult library, but they read nothing else outside of that. That that results in very very stunted human beings. The aime of magic isn't stunted human beings.

then like they try to perform ceremony. And as Croley states it, it's like you need to first understand that any of your visions or anything that you have in these states are actually hogwash and you need to think objectively about these things, write them down, understand that there they are part of your journey. But you you know, that's how we get obsession, That's how all of a sudden we go crazy and you get the wanderers lost in the desert.

It was you know, he was genius level. But the problem with Crowley is as a result of him being at a genius level and producing this materialist it's it's very likely that if you're in a structure like Oto and you will simply attempt to reproduce what it meant to be Chrow and you end up with a lot of people who are lesser versions of that obviously are not you know, I'm not throwing shade at the entire It's one of one of the gaps that people fall into is they end up trying to replicate the master

and we're no longer there, Like, we're in a completely different world, and we have such a breadth of information which is available to us and the ability to to to read an access book. So let's let's even just look at magic. So when I started studying magic, the

Internet wasn't really a thing, Like, it wasn't functioning. So that the way that you've got books on magic was you went into suspicious second hand bookshops and you asked to look at the books that were hidden behind the shelf and see if they'd hand them to you, and you bought stuff widely around them because you were unable to get hold of the specific text you were looking for. So you ended up with quite an eclectic reading. You know, you couldn't go, I'm just going to read Crowley, you go,

they have an expense paperback in there's nothing else. Well, I'll read some Muspensky. They have some Gurje, I'll read some Gerjeff. You know, you know I have to read some Funfortune. I mean, yeah, so you ended up you ended up getting this this kind of this are broad discover the kind of like introduction to it. And also because you didn't have such access to the material, it meant that you would work with an individual book for longer.

And you know, perhaps the best exponent for that would be would be Jake Strand and Kent and the way that he spent you know, decade decades just working with various bats of the true grimoire. There's bits of Grimory and Viren, and because of the limitations that have been imposed upon him, he was able to gain a lot more from the text than someone who was simply going this week kind of a veteran, a Buddhist this week kind of practitioner.

I'm a Vagoriana Buddhist. I don't think you knew that and when you said it, but as a ton Trick, I just feel like that is the true sort of axis of sodna, is to like really focus on the one mandola that you're doing and not be tempted by all the other empowerments practices. But I also like to, as you mentioned earlier, like keep your mind open, like read left hand path text, read your text on Lucifer,

read the works on Babylon, because it's very similar. I'm not saying it's the same, but there is there is a similar current. I think that all of the magic quote unquote, the whole canon touches on at least a

little bit. So I had actually an interesting I hope it's interesting, a follow up to something we discussed earlier, which was the mountain So in the Lucifer practice book, you refer to sort of the Northwest Semitic, but you also refer to other kinds of regional ideas in the North in that sort of area of the mountain gods or of the mountain god maybe I don't know, you can or the mountain angel.

So locating Lucifer in England is quite easy for me, firstly because this Practice shows the real explosion and the modern form of Lisa that we have emerged, firstly in sixteen sixty seven of the publication of Paradise Lost, and then with the actions of the French Revolution in seventeen eighty nine, and the modern form of Lucifer coming forth from these influences, which then informed the English line of

prophecy in the Romantic poets. So the Romantic poets continued the process that you find in the Bible, but they were writing from the other side of it. So Shelley in particular, but also Byron Blake, all of them had had their inputs in it, and they were they were dealing with in England that they were seeing as the new seat of prophecy. So they were they were transposing

the Biblical landscape onto the English landscape. You see that with and and did those feet Blake's poem Jerusalem where he asks and did those feed nation time on England's mountains green. So he's he's taking the Biblical jurissm and he's translocating it into England, and he's turning England into the place where the new revelation will appear. And so the question I asked after that in my oculture talk as well, if Jerusalem can be transposed to England, then

so too can the shadow of Jerusalem. So the other side of it, the Luciferian side of it, can also be found in the English landscape. And the fallen angels, and the fallen angels when you see them in the in the Biblical in the Biblical lands were very much associated with the with the Bronze agents Stone Age monuments, so the Dolmen in particular, the houses of the spirits, the houses of the ancient and mighty dead. So where I live in Cornwall is a giant bronze and stone

Age graveyard. I mean it's it's the number of tombs and structures and suffness we have here standing stone circles is off the charts. So we live in a we live in a place which has been associated with the fallen angels. There's the people try to tell new stories about a land whose stories have been forgotten. So the very earliest, the very earliest people who lived here that in the in the in the Stone Age, we don't know their stories, but we have there, we have their homes,

we have them and we have them for mountaintops. So there's there's a whole very sacred part of Cornwall called Belarium that I've written about before, which is mainly made up of granite. And because it's made up grante, which is a very hard walk, it means that a lot of these monuments have survived. So it's possible for me to work in the landscape on mountains with the with the homes and the beings of the mighty dead in

the currents of the earth. So my lucifer work is transploted into the landscape line.

gods ourselves. And so is that one of those things where your understanding of that Luciferic current, especially in the place they are in, gives you the ability to then tap into the currents of the land so you can remember this style of mythology and then put it into your work and then give it to the masses. And that's the idea of Prometheus grabbing the fire from the gods and bringing it to the people, and that Promethean Luciferian interconnection comparison.

this goes. You know where it goes for you, what it means, what it means in your disputed landscape, how you how you reclaim and work with that, and those are those are those are questions for individual magicians in an individual basis. So I've already had people writing to

me saying, oh, so I got this practice. And the first thing I did was I went to Serpent Mound and read a certain mound, because that's there, that's their sacred landscape that they're trying to understand, and they're trying to understand these stories through because we're in a constant process of these things being written and overwritten and changed and rechanged. And it isn't a question of like going,

oh my god, everything's cultural approciate appropriation. We can't say we can't do anything as moderns, we can't do anything because we are we are white. Now, this is bullshit. The important thing is that that people take these general principles and they apply them to the place that they're in, and they apply them to the culture that they're and then they continue to transform them.

nef lem and so on. So you're able to transpose that and use that mythically to access what's hidden in the landscape here, and to also like not to deny the Christian heritage we have, because it's a very important part of the West and Cold as well, but to go beyond that, to go further, to take it further, because I think that that the Anglican Church is meaningless now, it doesn't have any values at all. So and especially like I don't think I don't think Christianity is bad.

My background is Catholic, my parents and family or Catholic. But to go beyond that, I don't think we are in opposition to this. I think that it's just that Lucifer is something being born. It's a new revelation, it's something coming through it. It's not the devil from the Bible, and practice talks a little about this. It's more as though what comes out it's not just the bad, but like everything that was suppressed all of all of the history, and so we can find a way into that and

find a We are navigating a different world. I mean, it's a very different world from the Christian world. It's a very different world from Crowley's world even a hundred years ago. So we're looking towards the future. We're not like thinking about like twenty years ago, ten years. Things are going to change so much in the coming decades, very quickly because of Ai and all the other changes

happening in the world. So it's really that Lucifer offers a way to think consciously about how we use technology, for instance, how we ethically approach what we do. Lucifer is a current which like puts our consciousness into this position where or if we're going to take if we are going to be as magicians conscious about what we do in the world and what the world is in

our relation to it. There is a sort of a moral or an ethical thing that goes with that as well, like an obligation to rethink how we are in relation to everyone and everything, all the other being and spirit.

that's so interesting obviously being and then also I want to sort of ask about the post Christian landscape because I think this is really interesting, and I think this touches a lot on my own work and then our group work of aon of the Daughter, because I've always said it's cosynchronous. I agree with fred or a child that is cosynchronous with the aon of the sun, so

there's no true tension between them. But it's also looking at like a progressive not necessarily political, and maybe not political at all, but it's looking at a progressive view of American I'm using American magic, but maybe magic just in Toto. So if you want to respond to that, like how do you see the ten? I mean, I

think you spoke on it. But the tensions of the sort of reactionary magical community that would say, oh, we hate Christianity because it is we have daddy issues or whatever it is.

for me in practice, in practice of kabbala. So Kabala for me has sort of reunified my whole orientation, maybe my whole view to magic in saying that, yeah, okay, maybe if you want to call it Hasham, you want to call it God, you want to call it Jesus, like all these different ways to map it on the tree. That's fine. It's all reconcilable if you understand. If you're you know, high a q enough And so I just find like what you're saying very important and very aonic

and very beautiful. So I don't know if there's a question in there, but if You're welcome to respond or not in any way that you want.

another silly game. And I think that's what's happened very much in America because of the influence of sort of lavein Satanism. It's been it's been a very it's been a very reactionary, fucking you mum and dad, like you know, sticking your fingers up at the establishment kind of like approach, and ultimately it's childish. It doesn't get you very far. Like as an initial reaction, I'm not going to throw it, you know, I'm not. I'm not going to throw it away.

And I think people can gain something from that that that initial tension. But there's there's a more sure had our way to approach this, and I've been really gratified to find. I've got I've got quite a few Christian readers of my list for material and quite a few recover in Christian readers of my list for material, because it shows them a Bible that they haven't necessarily read when they were in their in their small, in their small world churches, like they hadn't really understood the world

and the text was being described. Now we're in a kind of weird position because in England, in England, we don't have Christianity anymore like we are we are, We're in a stage where the church is completely collapsed, like it's people do not go to church here, and I'm not sure whether Americans can understand us, like it's such

a minority pursuit. There's a there's a new rise in Christianity, like there's a there's a street Christianity which is coming up now at the moment, but whether I doubt that will get beyond a very small phase here people people have just gone past that, whereas in America things are

quite different. So I'm seeing a lot of chatter on pagan and occult forums when when you know when not for forums, but like substack notes and things with people talking about the rise for Christian nationalism and the threats that Christianity posts in America. And I don't really know how to interpret that because I'm not on the ground. It's very difficult for me to understand understand what the

reality of that looks like to people. And I know that that's going to be very different from if you're if you're living on the West Coast or if you're living in the Bible Belt. I mean, these are going to be very very different places in terms of how you how you interact with your with your fellow fellow Americans who hoping to Christians. But I think that the stronger position that I'm trying to advance in practice is

is we're we're post Christian and not anti Christian. And I think if we can, if we can get that message across the people, they can move through Christianity to a more constructive position, then we can probably find common ground with a lot of these people and not simply try to reassure ourselves of our own our own identities by defining ourselves in or position to you know, allowing us or allowing us to be defined, or allowing us or trapping us in that kind of silliness where where

we end up like the Satanic temple, you know, thinking it's hilarious to call abortion human sacrifice, and then and then wonder why it blows up for people who are running magic shops in quiet parts of America.

then either of you can address it. You address the need to liberate your practice from the eschatological confines of Christian myth, but nonetheless include references to the day of judgment in your curses. For example, this points to a lingering tension at this point in your life. Do you view this as a stumbling block or as a generative source of creativity and play.

that we can take that apart. I think we can prevent using it in a negative way to track us in a way that at least outcomes which ends up faith happens, which end up end with the destruction of humanity, with born again Christians having control of the nuclear bomb, having control of with the Collins Elite, if that's a group of UFO disclosure and the way that we interact with with UAP. I think there are smart ways that we can undo it. But we're all living in our

personal apocalypses as well. I mean, we're all we're all purtling towards death. So so that that's something that you know, this is something that we have to confront as well as a chartist say that I think I think that the apocalypse can be used to think through that. The death meditation, I think is one of one of the critical parts of that of that practice.

truly be alive.

but especially Portugal. They had the Africans coming with all their heritage and the natives here and we kind of just mixed up everything and we had to make sense

of it. So in the end we have people that would you know, get all the let's say, the African and the native practices, kind of meshed them, syncretize them, but then add like Jesus in the middle as well, you know, somehow there's some saints and Jesus there as well, or the guys like something that actually started back in France with Kardak so like his pirtism that they didn't got extremely popular there, like in Europe in general, but in Brazil it kind of like exploded and then a

lot of other things out of it afterwards as well, because again he kind of got Christianity, he understood it, he went to the East to learn more, and then it's like, oh wait a second, yeah, people reincarnade and stuff. Yeah cool, Okay, there's not like just this thing where you wait forever until their return and one. So he kind of like updated the knowledge and then people, wow, okay, cool, this is more like it. But he still uses the Bible and whatever whatever, So it's kind of like what

you're talking about, this kind of posts uh Christianity. And another thing that was in my mind was again this idea of okay, there's going to be an apocalypse, everything's going to end, and so one and well, by incidence, right, you have twenty two chapters and twenty two major account and a lot of the chapters are basically the twenty two are kind of being like displayed.

that gets created. And like you guys were saying as well before, like if you don't get hold of that, then you're just living the myth of some people that lived in the desert two thousand years ago, and you're still living that. But you're like out of there, you know, you are somewhere in America, somewhere in Japan, whatever, and you're still living that story. Like it's it's over come

on create your own you know. And I guess writing is the in reading books like consuming and creating, it's it's the excellent skill for that because you have to know how to create the story and to put it out there.

But yeah, you can't rationalize the spirit world. It's it's all real, as I think, who was it that said that recently on one UAP thing like demons angels. Everything's out there and what you encounter will be largely because of where your consciousness is, how your consciousness is oriented in a particular moment in our incarnation. So the consciousness is not limited, but our incarnation is limited. I also wanted to mention something when Brandon was talking about fear

was very good. I totally agree about that. Fear is really important. Everything Peter does turn to flow state. For me, it puts me in a fear state, you know. He I couldn't ride a bike until I met Peter and then he like two weeks after trying to teach me how to write, took me to the Alps and sent me down a black and it was like it was just basically, if you fall off, you'll die, So don't

fall off, just let wrong. That was my fear slash flow state, and it's been a huge part of everything I do, the same as like going in this scene. For me, that's like.

of my physiology. I can't cope with it. And there's a spirit I've had a long ongoing relationship with, but it's really comes to that the nature of that relationship is a series of nightmares essentially, in which I have to confront intensely frightening death kind of experiences and the Spirit will keep giving me these and I recognize the signature in it, and they're like they're particular watery signature

that I recognize this spirit by that. This is that the whole dream experience itself is me being immersed in the world that the Spirit has given me for the dream. And they're always to do with confronting fear, and so there has been several sort of nightmare initiations, let's say, where I have to keep going through it until I'm able to confront that fear, and then everything just transforms. In that moment when I can steady myself and become lucid in the dream and recognize what it is, then

everything changes. And the other thing I wanted to say, getting back to what Jin and I think Nick was saying about eschatology and end times and relationship of this too. I'm very interested in the approach that DH Lawrence took in his book Apocalypse to Revelation, which is interesting to parallel with Crowley's which is kind of a similar time. And he looked at it and he said that it's the woman holding the cup that walks out of revelation.

The one interesting thing, you know, the life that goes

beyond that. It's the woman holding the cup Babylon. So Croley's Babylon is one aspect of that divine, suppressed, demonized feminine, sacred feminine, and it's our feminine the West, which is where I see that parallel with the like Graderaiana tradition, that that's demonic, but it's not demonic, because it's actually our way through our history, our way through our karma, is to confront who she is, which is what this sort of work of excavation that Peter and I have

done with Babylon since the Red Goddess and through the essays collected in the Brazen Berselon and various talks and things we've given. And there's a different eschatology with Babylon if you take it back to her origins in the Near and Middle East and the earliest rising of this figure with inanna Ishta, she returns from her underworld journey. She is the first born of the dead in recorded history. It's not Jesus that come back in Dubaya's death, it's

actually an ana Ishtar. And she's both a woman and a goddess. She's the priester, she's the new gig. She's the taboo woman or the sacred woman. And this return from the underworld is more like the female erotic. There's like an erotic feminine way of seeing aspatology, which is countless cycles, as you said, cyclic time rather than linear time that just ends and we've fall off the cliff. It's like, yeah, the body dies, but the spirit goes

on and things just keep you. We are recycled. Like I see our matters as absolutely sacred and intertwined with spirit. There is no difference. But we're just particles. The water that makes our body was born out of stars which died billions of years ago. We are stars. We are made of this stuff. This is our consciousness. Water is one unified field that light and beauty and spirit. It exists and travels through and speaks to us through. So following Babylon out of revelation is one way to get

beyond that. You know that the climactic, you know, cut off of the sort of the male sexual response that is sort of like has been written into the and anyway, I think male sexuality is completely misunderstood. But I think that this idea that things just end is so linear, and I think the feminine brings back this sense that we just go round, the cycle goes again, our bodies are reconfigured as other things. You know, I'm no longer frightened of dying because it's just the body that ends.

And my energy is already more than my body can bear. So I do when I come back next time, I will be hench or whatever.

means star. So I always thought that's so interesting because obviously anana Ishtar there is like a stellar component. We would say that she's self combusting. Now what does that exactly mean? Well, to figure that out for yourself. But I just think that's really beautiful, because yeah, we are made of stars. We are luminous and massless and infinite

in our capacities. And I think that what Contred has taught me, maybe the most fundamentally, is yes, the wisdom exists as a method to get there there, and it doesn't really belong to anyone, like she doesn't belong to anyone, especially for our conception. She's postgnostic, post conceptual. She is not made of aggregates, she is not made of our perceptions. So I think very much it coincides exactly with what you said, And so I just want to follow up

with an actual question. Apologize, I know kind of a neanderer. What is the relationship with Lucifer and Babylon and how would you sort of reconcile it or codify it.

creating abominations. The abominations they create are in their floom and the giants, and so the spirit tradition that we in in the West, the demonological tradition, the giants are not the giants. The spirits are understood as the ghosts of the dead giants and levolous. So as if you think that our spirit tradition that Lucifer is the head of are like the progeny of these human these mortal women with the angelic realm.

It's not that at all. It's that these currents, these energies are false.

the same. You know that it's the other world because you have this parallel between the cosonic and the heavenly, always this relationship. But as I said earlier, I try not to rationalize too much. It's just that when you look at Revelation, this beautiful language like the Mother of Lots and abominations of the Earth kind of gives you that key to fit both Babylon and the sort of demonological tradition in a post together, in a post Qristian

interpretation where we can actually take it forwards. And yeah, that's kind of how I in my head.

in culture today and where we're heading. Is that so how Ellen Moore puts it, is that Babylon sits in a Banah, right, And that's when if I remember right, and I could be wrong, as Promethea, as Sophie is climbing up the tree and being Promethea, she is witnessing she runs into John Dee and she sees everybody on the cubes, and then all of a sudden she has this experience as she interacts with Promethea, the truest cent of Promethea.

becomes all. But the thing about what Promethea is to do after she understands these aspects of Babylon and the Mother is that when she comes back into the material realm of our kingdom of Earth, she is to aminetize the escasion, and this looks to us as if everybody is going crazy.

and we start to understand that inner Mary or that virgin that we're being birthed into. And so it's just all these things that keep coming into my mind as you're talking about how then Lucifer and this like this way of viewing self awareness, because for some reason for me, I don't know why, I keep having this idea of Lucifer being the beholder and the one who helps us understand the valuation between good and evil and how not only are the gods gods, but we are I think

Ike Baker said it, we are. It was it Jamie Paul Lamb or somebody was talking about how we are mortal gods as well as divine gods and the same breath, and so it's the only way to be born into that is to first die and have this experience of

climbing up the tree as we go through it. And then a side note was when you were talking about how Jesus is real that again, I've just been integrated, and I did take a lot of entheogenic experiences while like listening to Tool and reading Promethea at the same

time and meditating on those things. But there's a scene in as Promethea is experiencing Tipareth where you get to see all the Tiporethic sun gods and then you open up into a splash page and it's Jesus on the cross, and you know, and being all like the idea of like, well, doesn't matter if he existed, it's that he is real and more real than you or I, And this is the suffering that we all feel on a daily basis.

So this is kind of a fascinating, fascinating thing of like how Babylon has been so and the idea of Lucifer has been so integrated into Satanism, And I wonder about how you guys feel about that, because I think that there's so many LARPers out there and Satanists who want to intermingle this idea of what Luciferianism is and then the idea of what Lucifer is truly doing to our world, and then all.

philosophers shouldn't be religious and all these other things. And so it's such a very vast awkwards world that we live in where you get these Satanists like a Georgianni who doesn't truly have a practice and embodied but you can see it in his reptilian face that's like, I don't understand.

same level. When there's some information which is patently false, and there's some information which is like you know, is more real, and he just puts it all together and he tells this fabulous stream of consciousness, super confident words dropping like genius level discourse. That's it's fun. It's fun, and I can see how it does as people, and I can see how it opens doors for people. So I quite like him at arm's length, but I don't agree conclusions. That's kind of how I am with with

with Jason. But there aren't many people who've done this work is the real thing. So so when when I did practice, I like I sealed myself off from everything, so I didn't look at I didn't look at modern Lycatherians. I didn't need the satanic stuff I avoided. I didn't even really read the academic text. Like guy I always named pair facts. Now's brilliant satanic feminism.

and here's my badge, and here's mine. It's a bunch of my bunch of it's my sixth art book series. And it's like, fuck off, guys. This is like we're past that, Like we're not playing those games anymore. Like we create things, which is why you know, this evening we're sitting here talking to to all you guys with all your radically different experiences, because this is where it happens now, Like it doesn't happen in a here is my closed spooky satanic cult, Like that's that's not the thing.

That's like, it's open source. There is a time for privacy, and there is there is a time for secrecy, and I'm you know, individuals.

and then could dreamt off. But it's very easy for us to be divided in groups squabbling over the attention economy, talking shit about one another and trying to sell products, and can we get past that, please humans? You know, we do not need to do that anymore.

them will fade the old in a way. And so in my idea, the a of the Daughter is that we are leaving the institutional frame as well as perhaps also the longhouse, which is not necessarily tied to women as a whole, but just sort of like the sort of scold culture that has arisen. I think Peter has addressed this many times that has arisen in the last like twenty years, in this way of like keeping people's consciousness.

And I think that's sort of what's interesting about both Luciferianism and contemporary Setianism is that it is about breaking conceptual frameworks. And I think, like to respond to what Brandon said, like for me because I relate the sephra to the Mahavija like the ten Contra goddesses. For me, she's not fixed in any sephra. She is all the sephra. So when you encounter them in the sephra, they might take a different form or based on my or the

whatever mythopoetic framework that I'm using. But I never This is the one thing where I differed from hermeticabala is that I never saw that just it's not just been off for me, Like there can be a widow.

She merges with that so she can then come back to the world to bring on revelation, and in doing so she walks through and then witnesses these two the Saturnian figures this, yeah, the Mary and the Harlot and at the same time, and then that is that characters in path of individuation, her own hero s's journey as she is to then go and bring upon this thing, because she has to witness every aspect as she climbs

up the tree. So I'm what I'm saying is I completely I agree with with you, with you in that kind of way, because my own my girlfriend. Also she's she's a Buddhist practicing Buddhist, and so it's like her and I argue all the time, where does the Buddhist sit on the tree? Where are these things sit on the tree? And it's like it's fun to do that with a loved one or a friend, but it's like

we're all just like we're just sparring intellectually. So then when we bring it to the masses, we have a better way of trying to It's like how when I teach martial arts, it's every person I am talking to has their own bodily mental mind experience in things, and so how I teach one person hungar or when chun or tai chi is not, then how I'm going to do it to the other person, even though I still have these set systems that I'm trying to express and

pull out of each individual's bodily experience in the world.

want to rationalize everything. Maybe that's just for like your autistic cabalistic practice like me, like in private, but I don't need to necessarily relate that to everyone, which I think alo speaks to what Peter and Als said about, you know, teaching people the inner outer in secret and how Alan Moore kind of blends, which is a very contract conceptualization of blending outer inner outer and secret teachings and calling them maybe even different things like saying this

is a secret teaching, but it's actually an outer teaching, but you're presenting it as a secret mystery. So I mean, I'm very familiar with the chaos magicians. They love to do this. It is what it is. Even Crowley does it a little.

long as it has and be so impactful. And one of the things I really love about how you guys run that is there's so many different ways to obtain the books, whereas we see a lot of occult publishers where they only will release like I don't know, fifty editions bound in nice goat with the embossing and like, don't get me wrong, I absolutely love that stuff, but I really really appreciate that you guys also make the digital editions like super super affordable for people in the

paperbacks as unlimited editions. And I'm just curious about like that kind of original spark of creating that press, publishing your own work and also publishing incredibly interesting other voices. And if you could just speak to that a bit, I think everyone probably really loved to hear about that.

And and we we quickly.

been fundamentally democratic. So although we make very nice books, it's important to us because you know, we were students too, Like we were poor too. I mean we're not rich now, but like to be able to say to people, look, you can get a paperback just here's information.

the electricity goes down. So everything, but it can have an impact in a wider It can have a digital edition or a paperback can have a print on demand because they're available through Amazon, and a lot of our books is print on demand, and so the quality is like not great, it's not bad, which is not great, but it does like it can get to more people and so have like a bigger reach and that can

transform people. But also a hard back that's nicely bound might last longer, might have a longer life, might pass through several hands and find more people. And so it's about that approach that you can have books that work in different ways, that carry the material out into the world and have that different relationship with the people that they come into contact with. So it was really about making and it happened because we just grew, like we didn't think we'd carry on doing it. It just it's

just kept happening. Like I'm always surprised when people by because we also do very personal stuff. We're not trying to be like everything we're trying. Yeah, books are alive exactly. We are not trying to be the best of cult publisher or any of that. We want to do something very personal, very individual, and like our own. You know what really speaks to us because there are so many publishers now doing those things for themselves, do those things.

So what's interesting is too, like we're putting out The next book we'll put out is a very interesting book of poetry. It will probably be bought by two hundred people in the world maximum. This is like as far as these things go. But I find there's something extraordinary about the writer and what his work is and what

he's done. So I really feel that it's necessary to put out both something like Peter Mark Adams Game of Saturn, which has had a huge impact on people, but also the very like arcane stuff which might only get to a few people. And it's it's just that it's got to be personal, and it's got to have integrity, and it's got to not be restricted in this Oh, but you can't afford the nice edition. And yeah, and like

the academic books are like that too. I love so many I see so many books from brill that I wish I could afford, but it's like it's not happening. So we are really just trying to do something which is both completely independent. We're too small to be We're small enough to exist in the cracks, is what I'm saying. Well, it's like kind of witchcraft to exist in the cracks between what's meant to exist, but you're allowed to. We can just about survive and function and do this thing.

And then you know, maybe it takes people. It opens up into other people's whilst in ways that we can't control and aren't interested in controlling. You know, it's down to everybody else's individual inspiration and genius to take things further.

And when we're talking also about about fear, and we're talking about the disruption of people through the online media and just the endless pressure and the bitching and the attention seeking. If you read a book, then you're regaining control of your attention span. If you have a physical book and you like you read a you read a chapter a day, then you will you will significantly REWI you're brave and the damage that you're doing to it with doom scrolling, and you start to see the world

in a different way. And when the lights go off, when everything goes wrong, you've got books on your shelf. You can sing, you can read a book. You can read a book out loud to your lover, the fox like week books to each other. Incredible piece. I have never never beaten the technology.

conversations in real time, which is hugely important. We've had some brilliant conferences like your Culture conference in Berlin last year was like just super just to have people and bodies in space, because people in space don't talk shit because there are consequences. So over on meet on a level and you realize what people are like, and you learn a lot more from people that way than you do anywhere else. So we're in a in a dangerous,

unpredictable world. But I think as a community to practitioners. It's just wonderful to continue to share and to drive the tradition onwards.

Threshold Saints dot substack dot com. Of course, you can find us at the Gray Lodge, which Matt Mura, of course is our webmaster, so at the True with a V plus all try baby the True Gray Lodge dot com. You can see all of our episodes and also the Threshold Saint's episodes with the members of the Gray Lodge and so shout out special shado out to Solar Exile who couldn't make it but was here in spirit, and also just.

things TikTok x Instagram. Also, if you ever and all are interested in learning the Path of the Warrior, head over to my Miraki Kung Fu instagram as well and dm me we can figure it out together. And again, thank you all for this fantastic talk.

b A l a h dot com. And like I said, there's the terrat little thing that I'm running, so you can find more information about that on my Twitter, pinpost or just d m me in any of these and I'll be happy to share. Thanks again, Oh, thank you.