Santa Muerte with Cherry Parra

of my links there. I have basically and mainly like a patron and yeah, I mean also if you're interested in reading, you can book from there. And I'm Mexican. I live in Mexico, and I'm very proud and very happy to be here.

of her, people wearing her like on t shirts. You will see if you go to like occult stores here where they said where they sell things for witchcraft and such, you will find a lot of like effigies, like statues, candles with Santa Marta, and yeah, you just get curious and maybe you'll learn a little bit more about it. There have been there have been a lot of stories also in national news about her, and uh, yeah, it's it's pretty much already like permeated a lot of aspect

of Mexican culture. Even those who are not like believers, they know, have a very general idea of what the cult is and what she represents. But of course there are as in most or I would say all aspects of belief. There are different ways to approach you know, every practice, every deity or entity. So yeah, I mean there's a lot of versions, and none of them is necessarily like valid or like invalid or true versus untrue.

So yeah, I mean as a Mexican, like you just know, and the connotation on media and the news is unfortunately largely negative. But I think that in the past five or ten years it's really beginning to shift a lot.

there's a lot of like brujos, and there are different variants and all kinds of like witchcraft that is practiced there, and it has a lot of like there's a lot of stuff like urban legends and like scary stories and things.

Some of them have truth behind them, some not. But it's like a place that is very known because a lot of people, some of them like powerful politicians and like people in Mexican entertainment business, they go there to get some work done, like spiritual work and boukhetia and that sort of thing, but like also you know, just regular people and over there. I think that there was

a witch in the like myth to late sixties. Then his name was smart Dale, and I don't know which type of which craft he practiced, but apparently he was the one who first received like a visit from what would who would later be known as Santa Marte. And at first it was like a vision while he was doing this ritual, you know, and afterwards, you know, well, here in Mexico, Catholicism is very interspersed with these types

of beliefs. So he went after the vision was over, he called upon a priest from like a local priest, because Santa Marte had asked like to be like not worshiped, but she was like saying that she would be there to help anyone who called for her, particularly like for things that had to do with having like a peaceful death, or to you know, get well if they were sick, things like that, and gave him a series of instructions

on how to approach her. And after a division evaporated, there was kind of like what they say, like an image left on one of the walls where he worshiped. So he went and got this priest. But of course the priest was horrified because he's a Catholic prist, so he said that that was themonic and that he would have no part in it and that was not of God,

blah blah blah. But Matteo went ahead and he said, well, it's okay if the Catholic church won't admit or won't help me, and he started, you know, this practice worshiping Santa Martin, and gradually people found out about it through word of mouth and it started, you know, growing and growing until it eventually reached Mexico City, also some parts of the northern side of Mexico. And the thing that makes Santa Morte kind of like you your question was

about if like it varied according to the regions. I would say that maybe it has a different type of audience depending on of which part of the country you are in, because people like in the north of Mexico, of course, they they are like in the in the border and they deal with a lot of maybe uh threats from like organized crime and things like that, or they are involved in maybe some of these activities, or they want protection against their enemies things like that, so

it takes on like a different flavor. They're kind of like more from against enemies. But if you go to Mexico City where there's like an altar, the first like really like nationwide and internationally known altar to Santa Martin in the Pito that was established that altar by a lady named Enriquetta. I don't remember if her her last name was Dromo or what is her name, but she put a statue of Santa Marte like in the garage

of her house and opened it to the public. And that is where like I think most of the people go and pay their respects to Santa Martin. The flavor there, if you want to call it, that is a lot more like inclusive. It's not limited to like necessarily people who who are involved in organized crime or who are cops or who work in these types of like dangerous jobs.

They are like your everyday people. You know, business people, parents, people from every walk of life basically go and worship Santa Marte there, live offerings, things like that, And I would say that maybe if we have to like categorize it, if you go north, it's kind of like a bit more connected with like danger and crime and things like that. If you go to Mexico City, it's like more inclusive outsiders.

Also a lot of like gay people, people who work like sex workers and things like that they go and worship there as well. It's super inclusive. And if you go to Vera Cruz, maybe it has like a little bit of a more serious tone as far as you know, people who go to Katemaco there it's usually for specific like rituals and like petitions that are like of a certain level of commitment. So that would be kind of like maybe the three vibes that you would get, you know,

from Santa Marte here in Mexico go. But there's a lot of other places where she's worshiped that maybe don't have as much of a visible presence online or on the media, but I'm sure that they exist. Yeah, I'm sorry.

the virgin Mary with the local feminine deities. So Santa Marte kind of like I think sprong as a reaction to against that many centuries later, you know, because in Mexico, death has always not only been respected and revered and celebrated and worshiped, it has like it's part of our daily lives. And we understand we don't really see a difference at the end of the day when it comes to you know, life and death. It's part of like one same cycle. It's like life and existence in it's

to tell. So the way that we talk about that and relate to it is very familiar. It's like someone we've known our whole lives, even if we are like not devotees of Santa Marte, but it's always there. I mean, we're not afraid to talk about it because yeah, it's very different from here than you know, from in the United States, because you have like a different kind of religious thinking that plays the foundations of the United States.

It's kind of like more like evangelistic, and it was very different and over here it was like the brutality of Catholicism, you know, the Inquisition and all that. But we already were like really hardcore here. I mean, the rituals and the beliefs that we had here, and like that's what's looked like in the face and in the US, like this never happened, you know, and there were there was no fusion of traditions over there and over here, there was like a complete fusion of like cultures and beliefs.

So it's I wouldn't say that she's a patron of this and this and this specifically, because I know of people here in Mexico who will go to her for like pretty much anything and everything. When you go to some of these like occult esoteric stores here, you will find effigies and candles for santamorte, for health, for like abundance, for love. You will find like for protection, for like legal justice. You know, people who have like cases in quarter or relatives who are in prison. Whatever. I mean,

there's a candle for that, you know. So it's not like she's devoted specifically to one thing. She's like she covers many things.

struggling with really difficult things, you know, alcoholism, drug dependence and sort of thing. And I think that Santa Marte

comes across is very universal and therefore non judgmental. There are some traits, of course, of the connection with Catholicism as far as like some people do like incorporate her into sort of like masses and they say Catholic prayers to her in her honor, and like there's no rule book, it's you can't say this is allowed, and this is not allowed because everyone here makes makes their their beliefs and their like practice and their faith, their own but

it's kind of like more inclusive and more universal because even if let's say it's someone didn't have a mother figure, or if their mother figure was very lacking or very negative, Santa Marte is like truly universal because she connects with us all because she was there at the beginning and she will be there at the end regardless of anything

we do. So I think that alone is what makes her like a very good alternative for people who are looking for a protector that is completely accepting and someone who still has that mothering sense, you know. But and she manifested like like with feminine energy from the beginning to this witch that I mentioned. But yeah, I mean

I think that's that's the thing with Santa Marte. That's why she's like quickly, if not replacing like the Vision Delu aka the Virgin Mary Mexican version, maybe she's not replacing fully, but she is like competing like on very similar levels of like endearment and respect and attention.

and millions of Mexicans for centuries. So now it has like a different type of value, and I wouldn't be able to like so easily discounted. But as far as you know, there being like like evidence and proof, I would be a bit skeptical about that.

your home and hold a mass in order of Santa Marte. I'm sure that happens. And as I said, there is no set rule book. Yeah, people do row adios for her, but I don't know, like I think that maybe is like once a day. It can be once a day or three times a day.

they themselves like are users fools. And you are expected to like talk to her as you would talk to like a friend over drinks, you know, or over like a cup of coffee.

participated in any such ceremonies or rituals. I know that there are people that do bring like maybe sacrifices money, of course, but usually it's very very like personal, and there is no like organism or soul authority that sanctions how to petition her or how to like work with her,

or like present your devotion to her. So it would be kind of like difficult to like establish because you know, there's a pilgrimage around like maybe once a year that some people do to this alter in Mexico City, in Tepito. I don't know the I'm not sure right now. It doesn't come to mind the exact date when this happens. But I mean, yeah, people do like a big celebration there.

They bring things, they bring their effigies and and all of that, but it's I don't think that it can be said that there are like specific procedures that are to be followed there.

tequickly and she had like this male counterpart. Also, mick Gland was a place where where the souls of the dead had to like get to after you know, dying in this world, and there was like a series of obstacles that they needed to surpass in order to reach that destination. So that's why mickland tequickly was like worshiped because people were like wanted safe passage for the spirits

of their deceased. So from then, well after then the conquista from the Spanish and Catholicism, it intertwines with those beliefs.

And right now, I mean it's like usually Day of the Dead is it starts the celebrations on the first of November, which is what we call for the little death, like the young death, like children who especially those who died without being baptized according to the Catholic Church, but in general, you know, children and like the younger death, you know, start arriving on November first, and then November

second is when like the older death arrived. And you said, up this altar if you want on your homes decorated in specific ways that still carry significance from all the way from back from Prospanic times. You know the flowers and pasucci leon and these decorative elements, you know, these picado which is like paper decorated with like motives and you know, you see dead. You can see also you know Catholic saints right now, everything that is used to

decorate and you place usually it's food and drink. It used to be like actual real food, real drinks. That the death that your loved ones who have died, that they used to enjoy when they were living. So you put that there in a corner of your home with some candles. People also if they go like all the way, they like to create like a path with like sempasuchial flowers from the entrance leading to the altar, so that the spirits and the source of the death can find

their way to the altar. But if not, I mean in most businesses and homes and offices and all that you'll find like small altars just you know, with photographs, also possessions of like personal belongings of the deceased and things like that and commemorating them the food and the drink.

Sometimes they are replaced with like pretend food and drink. Know, if you can't have like actual food there because of you know, attracting flies or whatever reason, you are at least you know, allowed to place like a like a simulate a plate of food or things like that, you know, and cigarettes. People like to leave that out in case they're deceased. Relatives or friends like to smoke drink as well.

So but over there, curiously, I mean that is in death is implicit, but it's I wouldn't say it's the same as like a Santa Marta celebration. A lot of people probably like bring her out if they are believers in Santa Marte, but if not, I mean it can be like independent from.

You know, there are weekend witches here in Mexico, not as many as in the US or elsewhere, but there are some of them, and those people who follow those traditions will celebrate also, so whay and you know, do something those days. But the celebration of the day of the death usually comprises strictly of like November first and November second. So yeah, I.

founder of that altar and the keeper of it. But I don't remember which day it is, so I'm not even sure if it coincides with like Day of the day, or if it's a different day.

she was really not appropriating it. It was just like she does I don't. I think that she is a believer in Santa Marte, but I don't think it was presented as if like she found it or she started

the whole thing. So but in that book, I think I believe that that's why it was published because there's a growing interest and in all over the world for Santa Marte, you know, because it is unusual that in these times we're living in that there is like a new faith that came out quite recently and also gains

a lot of traction, you know. So yeah, I mean I think that there is There are a lot of people all over the world who who do follow and believe in her, not necessarily all of them like Mexicans, like who maybe are living elsewhere, but people from different nationalities.

I mean in Latin America, there is that that very old phenomenon and it's somewhat similar, but it's not as as formed as it is here in Mexico, you know, by comparison. And also I think that some people find similarities between some of the deities in Palomajumbe or Santa Ria and what I was doing research also for for this conversation. It's funny because I think that some people, because of the language barriers, they might think that Santa Ria is a cult of Santa Marte. But no, I mean,

Santa Ria is a very different thing. It's a different tradition and it's like a whole practice with like a collection of like deities that I incorporated there and Santa Marte, like the votis of Santa Marte. Some people will call them Santeo's, But you have to then ask are you saying you are a Santeo because you are a devotee of Santa Marte or because you are like in Santaia and a practitioner of Santa Ria. Because it's two different things.

So that would be like the only observation that I have there, and I don't know of any other like similar practices that kind of like use like with the effigy or the likeness of Santa Marteo that called it Differently, those instances that I just spoke about are the only ones that I that I can recall and say that, okay, maybe this this or that, But to my knowledge, it has not like being because she's like a syncretic version of as I mentioned, like the Virgin figure, but in

some ways it looks like her, but it's like it's not like it's just like the skeleton with these ropes, and it's approached in the same way as people would approach a saint, a Catholic saint, but she's not a recognized like Catholic saint of course. So yeah, I mean I don't think that it's like that it exists as it is in other countries or like mythologies or practices.

like all ethnicity in many instances. So I the thing that is different about Santa Marte is that she's very like open and welcoming, so because it doesn't have like like that ethnic and cultural law if you want to view it like that. So yeah, I mean I don't think that in that sense I could like compare her with like actual like goddesses or gods of like death

and and such things in other cultures. I mean you can maybe find like that common root, which is of course you know, the life force behind all of them, but they are approaching extremely different ways, and some of them are like not traditions that are alive. They are maybe some of them still are, but it's like very closed because as I said, it's very linked to you know, ethnicity and uh time and place. You know, the location is important in such things. So in that sense, it's

it would be too different from you know, Santamorte. I'm sure that in India there are several deities that can be likened to Santamorte in some aspects. But yeah, I mean that would be kind of like a good opportunity for someone like to do like a comparative mythology study or comparative theology in that sense. Uh, because yeah, I mean, it's by no means is it the only instance of

like the divinization of death. You know, it's it's like just maybe the most recent and the most popular iteration, especially nowadays.

I'm glad that you asked this. There have been attempts from the believers themselves or the leaders of these cults to Santa Martin to kind of like regulated before, you know, the government, for example here in Mexico, like make it like an accepted religion, you know, for people to enter onto their documents, what religion are you, Santa Devil d. But it lasted for like two or three years, I think in the early two thousands or something, but then

the government found irregularities with the issue is that the people trying to make her official later turned out to be like actual criminals, you know, doing things that were above the law. So of course that brings the whole

thing down. And that's one thing that I found very meaningful while I was researching for our conversation, because it turns out that you cannot or should not because nobody tells you what you can or cannot do, because again, there is no structure, you know, to follow but it is not well seen or like accepted to kind of go to her and ask her, I want you to kill this person or get rid of this person because

like they're in my way or whatever. You know, you have to ask her for things that are just and kind of like fair and not like she's not a hit man, you know, So some things you can ask her, you know, for protection for like success and abundance, and that way she can help you if if your heart is like puring that intention and you're bring being straightforward with her and respecting her in the way that you should, she can't help you attain those things, you know, but

not by kind of like saying, you know, getting rid of obstacles in this brutal ways so that you can profit of it. I mean, some people very likely have done this, and then in the end of course, these things never turn out well. Which when I was reading about all those there have been tours really attempts by different people to kind of like make her like an established government acknowledged faith or cult, and they have never kind of like succeeded because they have you know, they

haven't had the best intentions. So I found that like very meaningful you know that you can of course ask her for support for whichever you need support with, particularly with you know, protection and health or having a peaceful death, which came up a lot in my research, but you cannot like ask her to like It's not contrary to what isn't popular media and on the news, She's not. I wouldn't categorize her as like a bineful type of

cult or painful work. I'm sure people do bainful work on her behalf or under her, but inherently it was not. It wasn't like it didn't originate with those intentions. I found that it was like very evenevolent and even you know that story about the witch who first saw her in Katemaco vera cruzz witch Matt Deel for his whole adult life after the first time he like witnessed this apparition, he devoted himself to her, and he reached an old age and it was when it was sti for him

to die he saw her again. But this time he said that he saw like a little girl dressed in white, and she kind of basically came and told him that she wanted to thank him for everything he had done, you know, to get her to others who could need her help and such, and that was the last time

he saw her. So to me, it was meaningful that the first time he saw her or she didn't like it was not during a painful ritual and it was a message about, you know, offering help and comfort and protection to people, not like as like an avenger or like something that was more violent and in the end, at the end of his life, while he saw like basically a child dressed in white, which is also I think one of the most positive images that you can

associate with any like spiritual presence of any sort. So I think that I'm not saying that people do not use or try to use Santa Marte to kind of like do other types of ritual work that is more painful, but the origins of it are like very far from that as far as I have researched.

to actually have a friendship. You have to actually have a relationship, which is completely different. And I think, unfortunately this is where a lot of the misunderstanding come.

blend for me personally. It's kind of like if the image of the virgen dead a Lupe was deprived and cleansed from all of that charge of colonialism, then you would have Santamerte, you know, for me, for me, But I don't think like if you go to the average

like Mexican Santa Marte devotee, they won't say that. They will just tell you that they love her and that she has been with them through the worst moments of their lives and that she has helped them do this and this or that or solve this and this and that problem. And it's very very personal. So it's like a relationship with your own mother in a way. But it's not like a deity of the divine feminine. It's

like a lot more universal. So it's very it takes a lot to understand from someone looking from the outside, you know, And even for me, I mean, I would have to die deeper into her low and the practices and that sort of thing. I am somewhat close because someone I am like very close with and someone that I love very very much is kind of like a

devotee in her own way of Santa Marte. So I have seen firsthand that relationship develop and it's very organic, and it's very unique, and it's very non like, not demanding in the way that so many other deities or saints are, you know, it's very different. So yeah, I mean, I think it's it's one of the reasons why it's it's it's worship and it's called its expanding so rapidly, and I think that given the times we're living, it

will expand even more. She is, you know, she protects outsiders, which means that she protects immigrants, and she is on the side of usually justice, not because she is personally invested in one side or the other, but because like death comes for us all, so you cannot have favorites in that sense. So I think that it just echoes a lot on the circumstances that so many of us are going through right now. So I expect to see her take a lot more protagonism in the coming decades.

conspiracy theory. But there's even been times we've covered like cartels or supposedly cults that were killing people, and it's it's like, did you just throw the Santa Morte on there just to you know whatever, I don't know, it was not really an issue because then you find out the CIA was behind it. So like you gotta wonder about the whole storyline. You know what I'm saying, Are

you throwing Santa Morte? And then it look like all these are some psychos but this is really its you know, you have no idea, So so do you think all due to that? There is a misconception too about even you know that it's not all negative because you know, from the whole time we've been on the show. I mean it sounds a little bit different from probably people's ideas just do that.

things mixed because it's life. I mean, even like in a single person, you find like all of these things that are like these glimmers of good and and there's there's bath, and we are never like one hundred percent evil one hundred percent of the time, I think, because then we would not be humans, we would be something else, the same with you know, the goods, you know. But cartels are of course a reality, and they've done a lot of harm. But you know, governments also do a

lot of harm. And the everyday person you know, who may not be seen like as a criminal on the same level as a cartel member, but they also do like a lot of harm in other ways, you know. So yeah, I mean, it doesn't surprise me on one hand if cartil members, particularly those that are like on the front lines go to Santa Marta for protection because like it's very dangerous. Yeah, But I don't know like the

motivations behind each one of them and their actions. What I do know is that well they may have you know, the t shirts, tattoos, the big things Santa Martin. But that's one thing, and the other thing is like the

choices you make and the actions you carry out. As I and as I said from my research, is that because Santa Marte is kind of like it would be a kin to maybe somebody praying to modern nature for protection or like it's one thing to do that and another to you know, pray to Mother Nature for Oh I wish that so and so would get struck by lightning or diet in an earthquake, because they are on my way. You know, if you do that kind thing, ah, you are likely not going to get what you want,

at least not in the way that you expect. So what we see with the cartels is that, of course there's always violence and like chaos and death and things like that that are it's it's it's the very nature

of the business. So I think that it's because maybe they themselves feel like they are so far out outside of society, there's nobody they could turn to, because like maybe they are they see themselves as beyond even the understanding of you know, with Hende gull A Lupe the Virgin Mary, So of course they are going to turn to the next mother figure that they can think of. And because she happens to be you know, scary looking from so many people, they're like, Okay, this is kind

of like my match. But I would wonder if it's not more of a thing about the iconography just being you know, very fitting with the idea of oh, yes, I bring that because I kill a lot of people and my business is death, and therefore Santamarte is my patron.

It might be something as like simple as that for them, because I don't see such a type of individual being able to have like a serious practice, a serious like routine to pay their respects and to cultivate a true relationship with Santime or they or with any deity in their circumstances. And I mean, there's little time to even think about that, and there's not enough like peace of mind to even like find that space within their own

spirits to have that kind of relationship. So yeah, I mean of course, it's a natural fit from like the esthetic aspect, and therefore it's become very conflated with like these negative tones and intents. But if you take your time to really look into it, I think that you come to this conclusion. You know that it's not inherently

like evil. Will there be people that have bad intentions who turn to her for the wrong reasons, Yeah, but it's not that that's always the case, and the same should happen, you know, for people who are very like Catholic or Evangelical Christians and they are very devout. But then you go and even though the association that we have from the outside is very positive, but that's where usually you find the most evil intentions ironically, you know.

So it's kind of like you have to have those two sites pressed and at all times when when it comes to discussing these things.

you know. It's it's that energy, that drive that we cannot possibly like comprehend, so our human brain finds ways to put that into a terms that we can comprehend. So for me, it's such one of such scenarios, you know, the anthropomorphization of this event or this energy.

idea anything about it. I think that gave it a bad rap, and it's just as a whole on the side whole of.

world unfortunately. H But if there's a way, if there's a figure an energy that can offer you some comfort, some dignity and some peace in dying, you know who wouldn't take it, you know, especially in those moments for those people who were not able to be with their loved ones when they passed. So it's very understandable to me that now there's kind of like been not not a resurgency per se, but just like a very strong push for it. You know. That's a different type of faith.

with Santa Marte. In that sense. You know that my practice is not like centered in her, but she's been kind of like around me for several years near me, and after this, I thought, well, I think that I need to do something to discuss to start talking more

about what I'm not. I'm not going to be arrogant and say what she really is or what she really stands for, but basically have a more like a wider and more realistic, less, less sensationalist perspective about what Santa Marta means for so many people, you know, because it's it's it's nowhere near what is shown on media. So I think that I'm really appreciative of this opportunity, and I'll definitely be doing some more research and hopefully some writing about her at one point.