Something's going to happen.
What's going to happen?
What?
I Welcome to the occult Rejects.
Today we're diving into one of the most elusive and and debated mystery cults of the ancient world, Mythras and the shadowy Saturnian current running beneath it. Today's guest is Peter Mark Adams, author, translator and esoteric scholar, whose work has become essential essential reading for anyone serious about Western esotericism.
His latest book, Ritual, An Epiphany in the Mysteries of Mythrus the Secret Cult of Saturn and Imperial Rome is a deep, meticulously researched rereading of Mythrism as a living mystery tradition. Drawing on a kind of iconography or fic metaphysics, theorgy, ritual theory, art history and initiation, Peter reconstructs the actual ritual life, visionary experiences and initiatories, and initiatory psychological psychology
of Mythriic defots dvots. But before we get into this, I will introduce the other people on the show.
And joining us.
Today we got the Headless Giant and he is the one who actually found this guest. I am very very happy and appreciative of that. Thank you very much, Headless, and I why don't you let everybody know what's going on with you and the multiple amount of shows you were doing?
Now you got it.
You can find me on Twitter and on Instagram and on YouTube at the Headless Shy Podcast. And also if if you tune in later, me and Ethan are gonna be doing the trialogues with Ricardo and we're gonna bring our topics and have a good synthesis time. And on Mondays, I've got Alchemy Mondays with air us up and that's
always a fun podcast as well. And if you have any kind of occult experiences or mystical happenings, you can send your experiences to my gmail at Healthshat podcast at gmail dot com and me and Nick read those on Thursdays, So definitely check that out as well. And we're going to be doing another in the series of rustic Gods with jewels at some point this week. Sometimes we're going to be talking about all sorts of phallic gods of the age world.
It's really weird.
Yep, surely will be. Yeah, definitely next week.
I think we will also start, you know, we will start going through the infamous seven seven seven.
Book by Alista Crowley. This should probably take us a few years to go through the whole book, but keep an eye out for that.
If you're not too scared, you could come check out check out Crowley seven seven seven book at what it's really about. And if you're heavily into Jamachia or interested in Jamatria, this is for you, So please come check it out.
And thank you very much, sir. I'm glad you made it again.
I know again, like the weekends is your only time really with your family, and you do spend a lot of time with your cult reject so I do appreciate it.
It's my it's my only time to stream too, so I appreciate you having me nick.
Guys, this is my third occult Reject show this week.
I am Jeles, the host of the Gray Pilled Podcast. Follow me on Twitter at gray pill Pod. Go to my Patreon. We do a lot of cool stuff over there, a lot of a lot of tears set up.
You get a free sticker pack.
You get exclusive Patreon content and it's a good way to support the show. But probably going live later today. I don't know what I'm doing yet, maybe Cryptid Watch or my part two on the Green Man, but I'll kind of let people know throughout the day, so y'all stay posted. But good morning, and it's nice to meet you, Peter. Look forward to hearing what you.
Have to say.
Yeah, nice to meet you too, Thanks very.
Much, Jewles.
And last, but not at least, before we get to the guests, we got my and Ethan Indigo.
What is going on, sir?
And how are you this one?
Oh well, I cut off for a second there, sorry, Peter. Excellent to me and Shure Headlessen and Nick and Jewels. Always great to speak with you guys. Ethan Indigo, Smith, writer, philosopher, Taichi practitioner, easy to find on all the social media and I appreciate people who reach out and communicate. So again, excited for this, Peter.
Thank you very much for joining us.
I know it's early on your end, so I really do appreciate you making it. And finally for the guest again, Peter, this is your first time on the show. Hopefully we'll have you on again in the future. But yeah, please for the fans who don't know who you are yet, please let them know, like what your deal is and mention your books and please anything you'd like to promote, let the people know about it.
Yeah, I mean, well, where to start. I've been connected with the shadow world of the Occolts since I was eight years old. Pretty well. I really got into energy work in my teens, working on systems like Shotokan, karate taichi,
a lot of energy work, meditation. I'm like over seventy years old right now, so this is really a long period of time that we're talking about, but very late in life, pretty well, after I've finished with professional life, I started as a professional writer author, and that's when I really started digging into the subjects that have been so dear to my heart for decades, literally decades, and more specifically, the mis recults of antiquity are kind of
specialty of mind, okay, from a ritual perspective, from ethnographic, cross cultural perspective, and most of my books kind of hit on that topic from one angle or another. So I've produced an analysis of the rights of Dionysus as we see them depicted in the frescoes of the Villa of the Mysteries in Pompeii. My most recent work is on the mithraic mysteries, and I guess we're going to
talk about that more. But I've also penetrated a very obscure tarot deck called the Solar Busker HAROCKI, and this fifteenth century elite tarot deck turned out to have several layers of encoding, and the the deepest layer was a ritual sequence for invoking Kronos Saturn in the form of
the draconian current Ammuno. And that itself was kind of my first major work back in twenty seventeen, a kind of shocked scholarly community and the tarot community, who have for the last ten years had a lot of problem digesting the content that I uncovered because it affects our perception of the Renaissance, of the development of taro, and also of the role of these kind of rights amongst the Renaissance elite families. So that was a fairly substantial
piece of work. On top of that, I spent like twenty five thirty years in energy healing, which is like the other side of the coin from martial arts, so that you know, instead of learning how to inflict suffering, you learn how to alleviate it. I say, as a kind of professional breath worker and reiki practitioner using meridian based therapy techniques. I've done that professionally over like twenty
odd years with my partner. So there's a book in which we've covered our most extraordinary cases, the cases that shone the most light on the nature of consciousness and reality. It's called the Power of the Healing Field. And that's within a tradition, So that's by and by what else? I've written a book with Christophe Ponce, who did a lot of work to uncover the hermetic side of the Taro de Marseille tradition cards and we did a book
together with the Scarlet Imprint called Two Esoteric Tarots. So we kind of intertwine our thoughts about Solo Busker and the Taro de Marseille from an esoteric context in that book. And if I can think of any other books, I'll mention them. But that's enough for now.
I guess well, it's interesting, Mark Peter I. I got first introduced to reiki from a martial arts class. I was taking hop keto and the instructor had what he called hurt him and helim classes where he would be teaching hop keto and then afterwards they would do the instruction into reiki, so it was very integrated into that whole system.
Yeah, I consider them like two sides of the same coin basically, you know. Yeah, and a lot of people don't realize a sui reiki if that's what we're talking about. That lineage is a offshoot of ten Dia Buddhism, which is the Vajrayana tradition within Japan, so that you know, we're talking about channeling essentially a ray or a healing energy from a deity. And I think it's important to state that because a lot of people think reiki is just some kind of off the shelf common practice, and
it's far more than that. It is, you know, literally a mediation of the highest evolutionary or spiritual evolutionary forces to whoever you end up treating.
It's the accessibility that I think brings a lot of people into it is because you know, they don't have to know any of the esoteric to actually feel it.
Sorry, guys, I'm I'm getting a freeze on the internet. I may miss.
You may not hear what we're saying.
Okay, I'm good now, I'm good now.
Okay, Okay, yeah, hell let's repeat yourself if you don't mind.
So sorry saying something.
Yeah, the reiki tradition seems very accessible to people, so it's it's almost like, you know, it's perfect for Americans because you don't have to know any of these traditions, just do it right away, you know.
Yeah, yeah, which is good. But I should realize that they've got such tremendous power in their hands, and very often I think that realization is not there.
Absolutely, we got to do a reiki show with you sometimes.
Yeah, I will say, there's so many so I had a go ahead for it.
I was going to say one time I took a photograph of a group of recently graduating reiki teachers, and I took it with a flash simple digital camera, and the light flashed straight back into my eyes as though I had stood in front of a mirror and attempted to take a flash photograph. And so I looked at the camera and I thought, sorry, wrong with this, and I did it again. It happened again, and then like the third time, it took a photograph and I felt satisfied.
When I checked these frames later, it was quite clear there was distinct auras of energy around the group, and they had like a three dimensionality to them, and they acted with a density which was invisible to everybody there, including me, fishing to reflect light as though they had a mirror mirroring effect. And I think that sequence of photographs, if we ever do anything, maybe we should put them
up and let people see that. I'm not aware of any other photography that's actually caught the nature of this energy as a physical component of a group.
Absolutely, I will say, unfortunately, there is a lot of things like you even went into tarot, and it's like, I'd love to just waste this whole show just talking about your terror research and then even the reiki again. Why I was saying, hopefully we'll have you on again at some other point, because there seems like plenty of things that would fit the show or fit our interest to talk about with you. But I guess just unfortunately, going back to Mithrus, one thing I guess with your book,
you do mention like a epiphany and ritual in the title. Yeah, obviously you find that very important. Then if you put that in there, what is like the I guess the reasoning in your book. What is it that I guess you think that you're hitting on that's different, and that you find a you know, of interest in the ritual and the epiphany part instead of like theorgy and other things, theology things.
Okay, So my take on the mystery or the mystery tradition is that it's always peculiar to a specific deity. You know, So before we.
Have, before we go too far, I heard you say it before, and I think it's great. Could you go into what is a deity to you before maybe we even continue?
Yeah, well, I take it as an evolutionary force driving the universe. So just as you take a kill a white light and drive it through a prism, you generate a set of different flavors, frequents, is whatever you want to call it, which kind of correspond to the major deities recognizable in human spiritual cultures, cross culturally, but they
all resolve back to that white light. Okay, So that no matter which way you're traveling on the white light or on the colored beam, you're essentially on a continuum that I see as a teleological driver of the universe's spiritual unfolding, that's to say, the unfolding of consciousness, which I take to be the primary material of the universe. It a matter is kind of secondary, but they're totally interconnected. So that then you work with a deity is essentially
a cooperative working. In other words, you're aligning yourself with a certain frequency of energy to do a certain type of work. It's not about your spiritual evolution or your spiritual experience. It's about the work that's accomplished through that mediation of a deity's energy. Okay. It's purposeful, it's teleological, it's unfolding. And you mentioned Thurgi just now with Hergie
arose essentially because early Christianity closed down the mystery cults. Okay, so they had to find an alternative to the sanctuary based approach to initiation, and the alternative was Thurgy and you see it articulated in Iamblicus and Proclus and my book on the Higher Sophia traces that building's architecture and it's designed back to the mysteries of Alusis. Okay. That's
that's another thing we could talk about one day. So that what we see is that the most primitive level or bedrock of spiritual experience from my perspective, is in the cults of possession. That's to say, voluntary possession, not involuntary possessions. Okay, and that's that's like the one universal spiritual constant in our upwards trajectory from the upper Paleolithic to today.
Real, real, quick, just interrupt nine point five.
Yeah, would you consider invoking when people are invoking in deity or whatever, that would be almost considered a like welcomed the possession.
I mean, thirty is possession. But okay, it's it's not anything else. No, no, all right, that's important here though. What's important here you need to discard the notion that your ritual invocation causes a deity to possess you. That that's a nonsense, that's just getting there looking through the wrong end of the telescope. And Proclus Diadocus, you know, one of the colossal intellects of the fifth century was
quite clear. He says, all about commensurability. Have you repaired your energy body sufficiently to act as a meeting place and into a place where the deity can touch? Have you aligned yourself with that deity's values sufficiently to make it a welcome and desirable connection, because the deity wants to reach out all the time. Twenty four to seven. It's not hidden. If you're not connecting with the deity, that's your fault. That's your problem, it's not the deity's problem, okay.
And that embrace with the deity is purely okay. I'm aligned with the set of values and the ethical requirements to such a degree that that deity becomes a element in your day to day life and what you're attempting to achieve. The service, in other words, is the driver, not your aspiration for spiritual experience. I mean, that is not a that is not even a starter. In my worldview,
nobody cares about your aspiration for spiritual experience. We care about what you do in life and what element of service you bring to the common mess that we're all in here.
The common mess we're all in here.
I like that because people often write to me and say, how can I connect with such and such a deity? And I don't know how to answer them, What the hell are you? What are you doing in life? Well, even somebody doing a low level of service serving in a soup kitchen is more connected to a deity than most people who are doing spiritual pilgrimage and stuff. It's all about community. It's all about the service and the rest of it is just a waste of time.
Frankly, well, I will even say when I had my I guess magical experiences, at some point I had just for me, for myself. I'm not saying this is for everybody else, but for me. I feel like, you know, when you want to connect to God, God never left or you know, it didn't disappear. It says if I, for some reason guests turned my back on the source and decided to have my own solo experience, and I'm the one who walked away and traveled away. If I want to go back, I got to put the work
in that. You know, it doesn't need to come to me. I'm the one who left it. So I kind of see a little bit of what you're saying and agree, well, thank you for that, for that whole that whole explanation.
That was very well put, Peter. I'm going to clip that and put it up on my social media.
So that was a mic drop. Man.
It's probably gonna it's probably going to piss off a lot of good which.
It'll make people think, right, because people aren't doing quite enough of that these days.
So but yeah, that was the first explanation of deity with with the light, the white light and the rays. It made me think too that naturally you found reiki because of it has this almost verbal annunciation correspondence in the light ray and and the universal wisdom.
Of the ray t if you will.
So, yeah, that was a very beautiful explanation of deity.
Excuse me, yeah, thank you.
So, Peter, I guess uh, if you don't mind, Well, does anybody have any other questions? Before I asked him about the ritual aspect, I was gonna go into a little bit.
Of a.
Yeah, and I took you off with the whole deity. That was a that was a question in itself.
Sorry, but yeah, headless, head less ask him something that we'll get back, we'll get back.
I'm sorry.
Well, there's a there's a difference in soteriologies that I see blended together within the mythrist cult. Is you've got on one hand, you've got the sanguinary sew teiology coming through the bull sacrifice, right, and on the other you've got the epophonic right. You see the epophonic or you know, epiphany angle that you see associated with Apollo at Delphi and these other rituals where it's it's more about engaging with the deity as as opposed to making certain sacrifices.
But you see both of them coming together within the mythrus cult. That is almost unique in some ways because it's experiencing the same sort of epiphonic thing in a sanguinary kind of environment under the ground, right, So it's it's sort of a melding of a lot of different forms of salvation protocols.
Okay, let's dissect it a little. First of all, there was no bold sacrifice ever in the cult of Mythruss. Okay, if you take the so called toroctony, so called bull killing scene, actually it's nearly on the back of the bull is stabbing it in the shoulder, and you know you're going to be the sacrifice if you go and try that out. So it clearly isn't a depiction of
a sacrifice. That's that's the first thing, Okay. What it is is the iconography can first be found in the epic of Gilgamesh around two thousand BCE, okay, where Anki Do and Gilgamesh conspire to kill the bull of Heaven who's creating havoc on earth. You know, sent by the Goddessa. So that's exactly how they do that, and that element becomes part of Mithrus's hero activity. He fights with some giants, he fights with the bull of Heaven, he carries it
on his back, he feasts of it along with Helios. Okay, So what's being laid out is a traditional trajectory of the hero Okay. Why is that important is because it provides the ethical basis upon which Mithras arrests. Courage and good community with fellow initiates were like primary ethical values. So the mid cycle of Mithras as hero god spells
that out in the iconography. Why because only about five percent of the entire Roman Empire were literate, okay, and even amongst that five percent, there's a very steep decline to the minuscule number of people who not only were literate enough to read metaphysics, but had access to texts and could do so. The iconography was everything. Everything you
had to say had to be there. Okay. So the employment of this ancient I would date it back to the Neolithic frankly, you know, because if it's written down around two thousand BCE or already headed into the early Bronze Age, so it must have existed as an oral tradition long before there, and that takes you straight into the Calithic, and the Neolithic just gets lost in the mists of time. The other element is the nearly on
the back of the bull and stabbing it. Well. The deity Mithras is attested in the Bronze Age in Sanskrit, in a vestern, in Hittite, and in Matani. In other words, the name the god Mitra originates in Proto Indo European. Okay. It's a root language, hypothetical root language, and again that takes you right back into the Neolithic somewhere. We don't know when the various Indo European languages emerged from that Proto Indo European, so we're looking at a very rich
iconographic tradition. A Zoroastrianism only comes into play around six hundred BC. We're talking about eight thousand BC, okay, So the confusion of Mythrism as a Zoroastrian or or Persian cult doesn't see the is kind of blind to the depth that we're talking about, the time depth that we're talking about here. So what we have therefore is a deity who presides over agreements, compacts and that kind of things, right, So he is typically a deity of the ruling elite
who are responsible for making those kind of agreements. And that's the context in which we see Mithraism emerge in Hellenistic Anatobia and then gets conveyed to Rome as part of the settlement of the Armenian issue because it was like split between the Sasanians and the Romans, and they agreed to put a common ruler in place, and as part of sealing that deal, the Sasanians brought the of Mithras to Nero's Rome and he was initiated in the court there, and because of that the court followed they
also got initiated, and from appointments from the court to the empire, it spread naturally. So it was never part of Roman state religion, it was never a part of the system. Time every time, every single mithrea was personally financed, established, managed,
and run out of people's private pockets. So there were like five hundred mithrea in Rome, and nobody knows how many in the empire actually must be running to one thousand and two thousand, but from Hadrian's Wall in Scotland to the deserts of Syria, from North Africa to the Rhine and Danube. It was a pervasive private cult activity. Although some of these mithra may have had no more than half a dozen guys. Okay, they tended to have the number of people that they could afford because everything
was paid for from their pockets. They established the temple, they bought whatevers needed to furnish it. They bought the chicken or pigs, whatever they were going to have as their cult meal. And they had to. And also, you know, in those days, life was short and on the fringes of empire could be very short, and so they just had to recruit and run initiation to keep their numbers up. Okay, they never proselytized. Never. Mithraism was never a competitor to Christianity,
which was a proselytizing mass religion. Mythraism was a private, secret, mystery cult. So they're like diametrically opposed to each other. Am I talking too much?
No?
No, it's great.
Can we get around to your question, Nick, We're off on another tangent there right, they No.
That is great.
Where we're gone? You wanted to know about ritual and epiphany right, why they were so important because it's because it's a mystery cult. That's why. The mystery cult is about possession by the deity, the voluntary influx of divinity into the initiates and and and that's what it gifted.
And whether it was the mysteries of a lusus where you just show up at the sanctuary and you would have this gift, or whether it's the private like Dionesian initiator going village to village, or whether it's a small private cult like mythism, they all vouchsafe the same extraordinary experience, as Walter Burkhard described it, the experience of becoming one with the deity. And I understand this mainly from mythraic iconography, but that sense of oneness is a return to the
Golden age. And what they mean by that is non dual awareness, sudden unfolding like a flower of a state of nondewel awareness that forever changes your perspective on life and death because you can't sustain that state. It's it's impossible. Your your energetic system is just not robust enough to sustain such a level of consciousness. But having attained to it once it changes everything. So that's the answer to the question that you asked two questions ago.
It was quite right the way it went the way it was supposed to go.
So that's got there finally.
Yeah, yeah, did any of youse have any questions or anything else you want to add before we go further and stuff?
I wonder in regards to the iconography of the bull and what's going on there, I wonder if there is a relationship to the celebrations in modernity of the running of the bulls and the the bull what is it the sorry I'm escaping my mind right now, but using the red cape to attract the.
Bull and so on and so forth. Ut, yeah, bull fighting, bull fighting, bull baiting. Yeah, yeah, I mean what we're seeing there is the traces of a very archade bull cult that we can trace to say, chattl Hoyak in like six thousand BCE in Anatolia. So there's an element of sacrificing bulls, but also an element in which the animal is considered to be sacred is an embodiment of overflowing life, which is why Dionysius is often depicted or spoken of as a bull or the Pharaoh in Egypt
was the bull of his mother. So this animal has enormous iconographic and physical appeal to civilizations from the Neolithic onwards. And you're right, I believe the traces of this bull cult are this braving exposure of yourself to the bull,
which is not always fatal. Generally, it's fatal in bullfighting, but bullfighting is a very refined cultural element in a much wider, a much more dispersed generally Lellia bulls run through the town right and letting people like challenge it and then run away from it, and all of this kind of bull baiting behavior is really common around the Mediterranean. So and of course in in like Crete, in the Minoan civilization, we have the acrobats, you know, running towards
and somersaulting over the back of the bull. So it's you know, enormously resonant figure in our cultural life for millennia. Well, p me, I definitely see those. Yeah.
Me and Jules covered the taroctany angle coming from the Bugonia ritual which was practiced all around the Mediterranean, talking about spontaneous life being burst forth from the bull and Aristaeus and his creating the bee hives and now we have the Bougonia movie out now, which is like a reversal of the taroctany back then, where it was the bull who died for humanity. In the version of Bougonna that they're promoting now, it's humanity has to die for the bees, like.
A nature complete bastard.
The other kind of angle of this is, of course, the bull is Taurus, right, and the place where where he's stabbing it is is the Pliodes. Okay. And when we look at like cross culturally, Hunter gether as societies, like eighty ninety percent of them, they don't have all the constellations we have today, but almost every one of them recognizes the Pliodes. And I think one of the reasons is that you have this stream of media's emitting
from that portion of the sky every year. So there's a genuine effusion which even today people often think of or talk about as a health or life enhancing a few usion of light from the sky. So again we're talking about incredibly privot. I mean, if it's hunter gatherer you're talking about when who knows how old that is, but I should be thinking upper Paleolithic.
Yeah, sorry, where he's being stabbed. The bull is being stabbed. That's where the meteor shower is occurring. That's you know, that's like where the blood is coming from the Bull of Heaven. So it's incredibly powerful.
That's it. So it's like so it's like an element of star lore, which we've largely forgotten today. Why that effusion of light was associated as a positive life enhancing feature of the night skies is a bit of a mystery to us today.
Dab I have a I wanted to ask another question, Nay, woud I have anything before I go forward? Well, don't want to leave you guys out here. You sorry, go We're good, all right? Uh, Peter, you do, uh you do kind of uh you kind.
Of place like a little bit of an emphasis on the orphic metaphysics within the mythriic symbolism.
What is like, I guess like maybe.
Some of the biggest absolutely one of the biggest signs of stuff like in that that uh in signs that orphism might be kind of like behind the rituals in a bit, if you don't mind talking about that, hmm.
Yeah. Mainly is what is orphism? I mean, essentially, it's the esoteric tradition within Hellenism. You know, within Hellenistic culture, I believe author orphism arose out of the direct experience of mystery initiation, you know, which which affirms them the eternal life of the soul. For want of a better way of phrasing it, that is certainly a distinct, uh
phenomenal phenomenallygy of mystery initiation. People perceive themselves not as the persona, but as something larger that continues from life to life. They may even recover experiences, memories of past lives, and that kind of cements that belief system in place. They have a sense of a deity as a presiding presence in their lives. So that kind of is another element of orphism. The efficacy of the rituals and the ability of these rituals to cleanse what probably today we
call karma, they would call it miasma. You know, it's the biographical, familial, and ancestral karma that we carry with us like so many anchors. So all of these elements
are like common to orphism. You know, if you were going to boil Auphorism down to its most essential elements, you'd say, yeah, this sense of providential outreach of God's the ability to become possessed by and cleanse through the rituals of third ey and mystery initiation, and that cleansing of karma, which frees you from the bounds of fate or necessity and ank as they would have called it, and that opens up possibilities for your spiritual life which
is otherwise encumbered, generally too encumbered to really blossom. And so for me, those kind of four points are like orphism in a nutshell, And all of those points are a director outgrowth of the experience that Auphism or the mystery cults opened up as a possibility to people. And so it's no surprise to see them appearing again and again in various guises, you know. And one of them is Mithism, which is straight out of the Hellenistic world. So of course Auphism is kind of its natural is
the water it's swam in. It's kind of you know, any cult coming out of the Hellenistic world will have Auphism as its underlying belief system, but it's a belief system rooted in the first hand experience of the mystery cults and turgy.
I don't know if you can see this question. I want to just tow us this in here real quick.
Nick asked Peter if he believes the cult actually died out, what was just absorbed into certain families.
Well, that brings us onto a topic I raised briefly in the introduction, which is I found distinct traces of ritual activity embedded in a fifteenth century solar busker traki okay. And it's a full ritual sequence embedded in those cards, and then layered over it our historical and literary narratives so that you know it. Really it took me four years, working day and night to decode the imagery. And it
was just because I was so frustrated with it. I mean, since I was a teenage you know, I'd been working with Taro. I knew the imagery well. And I came across this solar busker shortly after it was purchased from the hands of been in private hands since the fifteenth century, and it was purchased by the Brera Gallery in Miland like eight hundred thousand euro or something, and of course they did an exhibition and catalog and everything. I looked at these cards and I, what the heck is this?
The quality of artwork was so high. I mean, it was a master work. It had been printed from engraving plates, somebody had bought the copper cut it. And even so, there was no way a jobbing artist in the fifteenth century had the historical literary access to such a fine library of Latin Greek. Godness knows, it had to be a real intellectual mind to put this together, to encode
this system. And I finally I traced the system back I actually which individuals were involved, all the way back to Constantinople in the fifteenth century, and from there back into the Hellenistic you know, into the fifth century. Actually system emerging with proclus and the survival of the Eleusinian mysteries after they were closed down at the end of
the fourth century, so that tradition never died. Was transferred to the elite families of the Italian Renaissance, which is extraordinary, and it conveyed a powerful current saying the particular form of the energy they were interested in was the same energy that motivated Alexander the Great, because his myth cycle was that he was born of the intercourse of the god al Mun with his mother, and when he went to Egypt, he went down the Nile and went to Luxe,
or temple in which the inner sanctum depicts the deity conceiving the Pharaoh through a human mother, and he went through a ritual process there, and then he went to the sea oasis in the desert where the priests of Amun at that oracle there confirmed him as the son of a Mun. And you'll see Alexander regularly wear as a helmet with the ramshorns on it, onnes of a Mundra. And so this was like a template and an ideal
for the Italian Renaissance elite. If it's good enough for Alexander, and given what he could achieve, it's good enough for us as princes, as Renaissance princes who spent at least half the year on horseback campaigning. I mean, this was the idea of these Renaissance princes were just you know Dila Tante's is. You know, they learned how to use
every weapon from childhood onwards. They rode in joists, they hunted on foot and on horseback, and every year they put their army together and led it on successful campaigns in Europe. And that's how they made their money as condottieri mercenary soldiers. They were hard men. So the whole cultures of Alexander is just like you know, just fits
them so well. And that's that's what we have in the Solar Buskers is direct evidence for the continuity of this cult from well, it's generally sort of started with the hat Chepsut, which will be about one four hundred BCE, but quite possibly it existed long before her. And then I'm an Hotep the third, right through Ramsey's the second. These were most of them were warriors, you know, and
there we have the same stuff. You know. The the conception from a mun being depicted in Renaissance fifteenth century noble Taraki was absolutely extraordinary. And then that Taraki that that said, the cards were kept in private hands until they were bought in twenty twelve. I think the first time the cards came to public notice was just like you know, so that's an extraordinary tale in itself, the
secret occult power of the Renaissance elite families. Of course, the death Stay family of Ferrara, who designed the deck had it designed our our a cadet branch of the House of Este, which is one of the Europe's.
Oldest black.
Yeah.
Yeah, this this goes into the banking.
It was designed. Yeah, well, it was designed for a Venetian family. It was a gift designed for Maren Sonudo. Yeah. Yeah, so Maren Sanudo was the scion of of the Sanudo and Venier families, two of the leading patrician families of Venice.
Okay, interesting, it's a tale for another day, I guess. Yeah, that's something that I have to look into.
Uh.
And you said that Mithras was represented by the ram. You said, no, no, you said that I'm in ra'm raw And so would that have any kind of correlation to Aries or Mars, like just the archetype.
It's it's it's it's hard to say. It isn't connected, isn't it. It's you know, it's so march you know, the ram being but also yeah, but also like the Mithraic imagery is also encoded in the Solo Busca Okay, okay, you know, so that they have that kind of insight into the connectivity on a very occult level. And you know, when you when you think about the lineage of these families, they you know, there was no historiography that we could
recognize before, like the nineteenth century didn't exist. And what I mean by that is history as we understand it is like a set of economic, political, social data from which we can frame certain hypotheses test them. But that didn't exist at least until the nineteenth century. Up till then, history was exemplary. There were tales that were told that taught certain lessons, okay, and one of the primary lessons
for the Italian elite was that they originated from Troy. Okay, So you have this, This is all in Virgil Zeniad, you know, and the survivors of true Roy traveled across the Mediterranean. They went to Carthage and then they went to Rome. So all the Italian elague claimed this line of descent. But as they would have also known, the region around Troy was famously the area in which the offspring of Nimrod lived. Okay, So and Nimrod were back to the descent from the angels, the fallen so called
fallen angels my sag ation with human women. And so for the Renaissance elite, there's also this this dynamic of an other than human uh component so to speak.
Yeah, well, you had brought up the epic of uh Gilgamesh earlier, and he's kind of the same character that.
That oh yeah, yeah, yeah, as Nimrod, yeah yeah.
And the other thing is, of course they'd surfaced like the Hermitica in the fifteenth century. You know, there was a lot of stuff in that about human beings being more than purely human being partly daymonic, you know, so they had a lot of i say, without a historiography. Their view of history was very static. It was just exemplary figures like this drawn from literature. So the line between fact and fiction was very very thin, if non existent,
to be honest. Anyway, this is by the bye, we're a long way from mythrust right now.
Another thing I wanted to ask, to what extent do you think the mythric rights were about like literal ascent through the planetary spheres versus more of like symbolic internal translationion.
Okay, so there's there's no question that the grades were based on seven planets, it's clear. The problem. The problem is this, it's kind of twofold. Basically, the whole point of a mystery initiation is that you bypass all the celestial spheres and you go directly to the hyper celestial encounter with the deity. So it makes no sense to get initiated into the moon, into Venus, into Mercury, into Mars.
It doesn't make any sense. That's you know, that's a kind of academic speak because they're not thinking about what a mystery cult is. And I say, the whole point of a mystery cult is to bypass the celestial spheres and go directly to an encounter with the demiurge okay, which is you know, Chronos basically in the metoric mysteries, but Kronos as an emblem of the Golden Age and therefore a time of perfect peace, harmony, et cetera, et cetera.
And what they're like signaling to us is a state of nondual awareness, which is a common mystical experience in every time and every culture. So why then do they have the seven grades, is the question. Because they were self sustaining little mithraic units, and to get people to the state, get their energy body to the state where they could have this encounter with the deity, they needed
to have a process in place. Universally in the Hellenistic world there were two steps, cleansing by water and cleansing by fire. Literally, so on top of that, they added on a first state, which is induction into the culting that wouldn't have happened in a sanctuary. You just turn up at a sanctuary. But since you're running this little microcosmic initiatory tradition yourself, you need to induce people into it.
They need to take an oath, they need to swear an oath, better to say, and then you can start the process of purification. You're repairing the energy body. You have to bring the energy body to a point where it's capable of touching divinity. And so they like the first three grades are the attempt to do that. The other four grades are you know, starting with the Lions. The Lions are purely initiatory grade. In other words, they're
sacredotal members of the cult. They're not the rank and file, and so typically only the most dedicated purified individuals would even aspire to that because the responsibility on them to maintain an ongoing and living relationship with the deity day after day is so high, makes it makes so many
demands of your time and energy. So said, and also you have to have a couple of guys who actually administer this cult, you know, check that the mitraeum is there that they've got supplies in that everyone is going to turn up. All the admin of running a small club has to take place amongst the four top level grades. So, in fact, this idea was enunciated by the great term mithres manpra Klaus, you know, probably in the seventies or so he had speculated, and in fact it the grades
were separated into two groups. But when I examined the actual hell sequence of initiation into Hellenistic mysteries, it was clear to me that you need to have these stages, and that once you have the encounter with the deity, there's no further revelation. Okay, having encountered nondual awareness, there's nowhere else to go, so to speak. That's it. You're there. So if you have an aspiration towards the priesthood, then
you would move on into the other grades. But the number of people, I guess, given that you're a soldier on the front lines of the empire, would be very few and far between. Also, you would have to have the means to become administrator of a cult like this, you know, and if you're on a soldier's salary or whatever. Civil seven salaries, it's probably out of reach. I say, everything has to be paid for, and I know, is
that help answer your question? But I'd say the main thing is that there's no sense in seven grades as initiatory grades for everyone to go through, because that's not what the mystery culture does. It's amazing the initiation into the Spirit of Lattern, right, It's amazing to me the continuity between the Mythrate.
Cult and the the organization within the Freemasons. Right, So you've got it sounds like this order of Lions are protecting the circle, right, they would be like the Tylers. And then you've got these these other positions that seem to be adopted straight from the Mithraic cults just sort of passed right on into free Masonic rituals as well as the three grades as the Purification grades, the Blue Lodge as well. So you've got you know, a lot of parallels.
Yeah, I think probably the archetypal nature of these structures would tend to repeat. You know, I say it was universal in the Hellenistic mystery cults, irrespective of which deity they were. For that you would need to have this kind of progression that the higher grades are limited to a very small number of people who aspire to priesthood or to administrative roles. I guess human nature hasn't changed that much.
You know What's what's interesting, Like you, I guess you're saying human nature hasn't changed that much. It's something I was just thinking about now, and it's like, not really that big of a deal, but I do find it interesting how it's something that is uh when it comes you say, cleansing by fire or cleansing by water. You know, even in my own ritual work or even doing the Gnostic Mass and the Oto, you cleanse by water and
then you do cleanse by fire. It's interesting how like that idea, no matter like what context maybe you're working, that is something that is like a thread throughout so much ritual work. Is that all cleansing by fire on water, No matter what you're doing, that's always seems to be involved regardless, you know what I'm saying, Like.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, you see it with baptism.
You think it's it's.
Sorry, I think there's a lag that.
Yeah.
I think it's important though, to distinguish. Yeah, I think it's important to distinguish between the physical activities the efficacious force that's being invoked something or evoked.
Something I do want.
To ask situations something I do want to ask you real quick, Peter, before I forget. And it's a little bit of a It might be a little bit of a weird question when it comes to initiations or rituals. I do, from my own experience from going through initiations in the Oto, and my own experience from using the hexagram, pentagram rituals, and even looking at Crowley's Knox formula, I do sometimes wonder if these things are even showing symbolism
of actual changes within the body itself. I couldn't tell you what any of these mythric rituals look like. But when you have looked at these things, have you ever wondered if it's actually like showing anything tied to physiology.
I know that might be hard to.
It like, I'll explain it this way, maybe so you get a better idea of what I'm saying. I do think that this may sound crazy looking at the lesser Banished ritual, the pentagram, and even the hexagram and Crowley's NOx formal. Again, I do think what you might be looking at is to change a change that's going on inside of the eyeball that determines how much light you're
actually pulling in. I know that might sound wild and off the wall, but I do think it might actually be showing you physical changes with inside your inside your body. Have you ever thought that or seen anything like that with this stuff, or has that even ever come up in your mind?
You may never even thought of that.
Well, for me, the physical activity of initiation is merely there's almost incidental to the process that's going on. It's like the ten percent or whatever is off the iceberg is the ritual activity. The iceberg itself is wholly administered by the spirits deities that are evoked to conduct that activity. Okay, So of course that affects your energy body, but you're you know this, This this kind of possession cult bedrock upon which most of our spirituality rests, extends to the
ritual actions itself. So as soon as you form an intense ritual space, you have a collapse of temporal let's say, the spatial and temporal vectors that structure our day to day reality collapse. Okay, So you have very intense psycho energetic effects generated. Okay, and they are of such an intensity that they'll give rise to visionary experiences, to expansion
of awareness. So there's a huge, so to speak, spectrum between undertaking ritual actions, which the most extreme extent are purely theatrical, like in eyes were shut, right, they're making a movie all the way to a ritual that is so powerful it triggers spontaneous Condolini. That's to say, the ritual space becomes so dense it triggers Condolini and fundamental shifts in the quality and depth of awareness.
That's interesting.
And the spectrum is spectrum is driven by the presence that are invoked into that. It's not our energy. Our energy generally is not powerful enough to do that. Okay, But we enter into a continuum with like a stream of consciousness which is merged with other dimensional entities and beings for want of a better expression, and that's where the motivation, the motive power of change within a ritual process takes place. There's just one way of viewing it.
I'm not preaching this. My perception is this, Okay, Yeah, yeah, I was going to say everyone will agree with it.
Well, even from my own experience with initiations. I was even told by somebody who facilitated the initiation after the fact that like at times, just from my experience, when you might be tapped or touched or parts of your body might be I guess whatever involved it could literally be to get that like I was tapped at the waiste at one point that what I was told I was to activate the chakra there or to awaken it or to get it like understanding, like it's time to
pay attention to what's going on. So like even what you just said right now, like that that even resonates with me, you know, just real quick to make sense of it of like what I was trying to explain before, and not to keep going on about it, but like just real quick, like you even said in like in
the whole act and stuff. Even in the NOx formula when Crowley acts like he's grabbing the nipple for the child to feed, if people were to look into the science between the nipple and the pineal gland and the child, there was a lot of weird shit going on. The child's actually going to find out from the mother's you know, stuff coming from her paneal gland into the milk and tell the child where it is, what time it is,
all this stuff. So it's just like, you know, is could that be being represented in his work.
And people just don't see it.
That's what I was trying to get at with you, like, could there be things in there that may actually, in a weird way tied to science. I could be completely wrong about that whole thing, but I did. But if there is a weird there is a weird connection with the pineal gland and the child.
Especially the hand of Sabasians.
All right, corn but in how sorry with the head of Saba is getting.
Like, oh yeah, just let them, let them, let them just answer what I just said.
It's not a big deal.
Okay, what the head of Sebasio specifically say one of my favorite glad at the thumb.
I'm sorry. I mean, for me, this psychic biology doesn't doesn't resonate.
Okay, all right, No, that's that's okay. Yeah, I was an expectation.
It can be, it can be implicated or not. But for for ritual to be efficacious, it has to it has to be in a stream of other than other worldly consciousness. I mean, it's seldom just our own energy. I mean when I study, for instance, Crowley's text of a magical retreat in Paris and John Saint John. You probably know that one. He spends a lot of time to cultivate condolini as the kind of platform for what he's trying to achieve.
No, I get that.
I think there would be a lot of This is my opinion. I think there's a lot going inside your body when that happens. That's the only reason why I look at that stuff as I do think in order to have that experience, there is certain changes within oneself. But again, I was just asking you just in case you happen to look at it that way. Most people don't, so I mean, I wasn't expecting much of a different answer than you give me.
No, it's quite all right.
I look at it from the point of view of a deity interacting with us. I look at it from the point of view of a deity interacting with us, so for instance, in the Vagarayana tradition, and I've experienced this myself. Doesn't matter if there's ten thousand people there, well, what your state of preparation is. When the initiation is given, it affects everyone simultaneously.
I believe that.
Okay, we were watching straight from the deity.
We were watching The Serpent and the Rainbow on Friday night that was talking all about possession and voodoo, and I was thinking about the connection to Martinism as well, which is a direct sort of offshoot of the Elucidian
style mysteries that carried on in Europe. So you've got sort of a direct linkage between this old way of being possessed by a deity, and then as it transferred over to the new world, new world, you get new expressions in terms of voodoo and hoodoo ceremonies which use a lot of the same principles that they were using in ancient Greece. Divine madness.
Yeah, yeah, it's like it's like bedrock, you know. It's it's that sense of proximity to a deity that empowers everything else, because as embodied beings, we don't have access to those powers in and of ourselves. Condolini is not a personal possession. For instance, it's not a private possession. It's not my condolini. That's what I'm trying to say.
I like that. Another question I did have for you kind of get.
So this erasure of the persona, Yeah, the erasure, erasure of the persona is what I'm trying to get at and unfort in modern society, the persona is so prominent, you know, so that that is a social problem with spirituality, love and spirituality like a glove puppet.
Oh, it's a very Dallast thought, right, Like we really just sometimes have to get out of our own way. There is a Chi Gung practice where they back to the fire and the water where they will focus on water practice through like steam and freezing our own in a mental imagination process, meditation practice or with fire kind of burning away the up to s or extra.
I just wanted to mention that it's.
It's and and the Dallists kind of have a similar idea to the year put putting forth, where we have to get in alignment with the dow before we can receive this energy that's beyond us and outside us to really connect and you know, engage.
Yeah, it's like commensurability again in the in the old mystery cults, your energy body has to be a certain state of repair to allow it to function as intermediary.
That I wonder Peter, with your understanding of these mystery cults and methros and also your you being an internal arts practitioner. I wonder if there's some kind of fusion you've been able to find in movement or maybe a mental idea that you might share with people to stabilize their balanced, their their energies.
You know, service that that's the that's the that's the master key. That's what service you provide. So that immediately resolves, that immediately resolves all wrinkles, all stresses.
When it comes to mystery cults, I usually got to bring up the Golden Ass and so at the very end, he's so he's saved by the cult of Isis, and so he becomes humid again because of that, and he dedicates his life to serving everybody else after that time period, so he becomes a lawyer. Through the mystery schools, he makes connections, he becomes a lawyer, and he starts serving
the poor. Which is really interesting that that's the moral of the story, is that you've got to get out of your way, You've got to get out of your head and start serving other people because that's what that God wants you to do.
Yeah, it's like in a nutshell. Yeah, beautiful.
Peter, if you don't mind me asking her what to get a little bit back to kind of a some more normal questions.
Uh, you do kind of.
I mean obviously you know mentioned the secret culture Saturn. Your book strongly like emphasizes Chronos. I know we kind of like touched on Saturn and stuff, But uh, how do you like kind of see Saturn like really functioning within mythriism, like as a metaphor principle or a god of binding or as a gatekeeper or all of them. Like, if you don't mind maybe giving a little bit more in depth idea of what you're of Chronos or Saturn is with mythriism.
Yeah, of course they You know, when we talk about Saturn in this context, we're not talking about the planet tree Saturn. We're talking about the demiursion whatever, you know. Form. There's not much to say because at the apex of this culture, of its spiritual experience, you know, to say, is non dual awareness. It's it's the real gift when you experienced reality as though you wear a god for a brief period of time, and that's the ultimate cult compass. Would you know that.
Would you consider having having that experience the same as like platinus henosis?
Say again, please, Nick, would you like say.
Like maybe having that experience would be like I guess the same as like Platinus's hernosis or maybe other people calling it the crossing the abyss? Is that what do you think like the outcome of this would be, it's having like union with God.
Yeah, it's like yes, yeah, because that state is a resolution of all conflicts and contradictions. That's true, Okay, everything, all of a sudden is what it is, and that is sufficient onto itself. So you know, the persona is so far behind in this process. Now that you're looking at like like some kind of star being, You're looking at reality as though you had infinite time and space. It changes everything. Yes, but of course we can't sustain that,
you know, level of awareness. We have to drop back into ourselves and back into our own karmas society. You gotta go, You gotta so that that's on, you know, that's unchanging. It's like you know, before Enlightenment, after enlightenment, you know, it's the same woods you have to chop, same water you have to tote, But after Enlightenment it is all in a very different framing. It's just the absolute priority to be of service.
Do you think it's be an experience, because.
Do you think there would be an experience that would like change somebody forever, Like you know, when you go from like a cucumber to a pickle and you can never go back.
Absolutely yeah, basically basically nice. I mean, you can fall any time you like. You know, a lot of people who take on spiritual let's say education and mentorship is full time task, accumulate fresh commerce from it. You know, it's an incredibly demanding thing, and they go wrong. There's a lot of ways to go wrong. You know, it's been so many abusive gurus, you know, so we have to we have to see this. This process is a
multi life process. We're not talking about you know, what you're going to do in the next ten years, next twelve years, how about the next ten lifetimes where you're going to be.
That is a good point.
So a lot of it, I think is trying to set the stage for successive incarnations, you know, which is why kind of dying consciously can be so important. You know, the recovery of memory of past lives, the cleansing of deep karma. You know this this is the graft, the real graft. It's spread out over many lifetimes, many incarnations in many different forms, at least in my view.
Do you think some of these initiations or the experience of it could maybe even tired to like the experience to like, you know, through shamanism, they kind of like maybe pushing yourself almost to an NDE experience.
That may sound weird. I don't know how to how else ask?
I mean, once you, once you activate fundamental energies in your psycho energetic system, it's going to lead to all kinds of alterations of consciousness and awareness, all kinds of encounters, you know, which is what I think of shamanism as intermediation essentially. Yeah, you know, it's I'm sure all of us could tell some tales of contact of touch points. Some of them are inter dimensional, some of them from uh,
parasitic entities. Certainly, working for twenty odd years in energy healing, we tend to encounter a lot of parasitic entities, and some of them can be very powerful. Okay, I don't use I don't think in terms of good and evil here, Okay, I'm not a duelist at all, but some some entities are earth bound, some of them are location bound. Some of them are are people who've died unexpectedly and become
parasitic on anyone that they can attach to. Some of them are our persons who've passed over and have unfinished business and are constantly seeking to have someone to complete for them. And then you start getting into the higher order entities, which you know can be I'll give you an example. I mean, running a energy healing practice, we had to routinely cleanse the rooms, you know, otherwise the atmosphere starts getting den and heavy, you know, with people
releasing stuff. So once I encountered, or we encountered, an Islamic scholar and he offered his services to do this cleansing. And he had this like dense book with all these notes and diagrams and astrological charts, and he said, oh fine, you know we actually pay give you, give you a kind of gift for doing it. We were open to that. And my wife and I were standing in the admin looking at all the invoices, and I distinctly saw like a white light sheet come across my vision and as
it passed us, our knees just went. The intensity of that fine vibration was so high. Literally we just buckled and but for the table we'd have been on the floor. It swept through the space, So I think of it as being much by the wings of an angel. Frankly, you know.
Peter, I have a question about the placement of these myth realms. Now, would they be in alignment with Earth energies that sort of enhance?
Yeah, yeah, I would guess almost always connected to a spring. And therefore, you know, like most of the temples of Apollo on the western Anatolian coast are situated where there's a deep rupture in the strata rock strata, so you have water flowing and then changing level and emerging as a spring. And that's where all the oracular centers are located, you know, in Greece and in Turkey. So those let's call them geopsychic energies are incredibly powerful and assist in
shifting the quality and depth of awareness. So their natural oracular sites. And yeah, every Mathrea, you know pretty well, if it could be, is situated next to a spring. So same you harness the Earth's energies for this kind of work if you can.
Yeah, So, Lego, being a Turkey, I got to ask you about the earthquakes. Do you remember the devastating earthquakes that took place. I think it was in twenty twenty.
Yeah, yeah, of course.
Yeah, Now it's.
Always happening there by the way.
I had a theory about that. So that was right after they shot these giant balls out of the sky in North America. Right, So you've got the balls in the sky that landed in the ocean right after they shot them out of the sky, like Urinus being castrated.
By weird stuff there.
Right, you have the massive earthquakes on Turkey immediately afterwards, and it's like this is where the mith Ralliams and these practices were done. And now they're cutting off the castration in the skies.
So strange, I know. I mean, the whole thing with the you know, uf O, UAP, whatever you want to call it, phenomena is a constant in human cultural history and development. They're all They've always been here. I'm sure
they inhabit parts of the earth. I'm sure that. No. And if you look really closely at the alien abduction for an hour for instance, as you know, the John Mack was head of psychiatry Harvard, I did a longitudinal study of people suffering PTSD without any trauma, you know, And I checked their family histories, no sentimental illness die. The one constant factor they all had was the recovery
of alien abduction phenomena under a hypnosis. So I'm also convinced that there's a long term process or project of intervention in the human biological development that's weird, and.
It goes along the same lines as the shifting of consciousness. I think there's some other, you know, kind of form of intelligence that has been interacting with us for thousands of years, and we've lost our immunity to some of the more destructive elements of it because we had that knowledge kind of struggle.
A lot of people who have that alien abduction experience wake up with a sense of purpose that they didn't have beforehand. So it also acts as like a trigger, as an initiator, let's say, I almost like a form of initiation.
Oh it changes their life too forever.
Yeah, same thing with the near death experience.
Yeah, yeah, indeed, absolutely Yeah. I had a number of those. I say, a lot of these cases we documented in the book The Power of the Healing Field. You know, it's just like a kindle book for like two dollars, But in there. Over that twenty thirty years, we documented the most extreme cases that we encountered in the healing energy healing business and it's extraordinary.
Thank you man. How does anybody else have any other questions?
Well, yeah, I had one. I had one question.
So I know that there's aspects of Zoroastrianism that were brought or you know, that are incorporated into Judaism. Is there anything from our I guess, any kind of aspects from Midraism that are incorporated in any mainstream religions today or that folks really don't recognize.
I'm aware of, because yeah, it kind of disappeared from view around six hundred and it didn't resurface again until the fifteenth century when they started digging up Roman remains. There was a big period of antiquarianism. There was a market all of a sudden, so people were digging up any bits of Roman stuff they could find. So for like a thousand years it just disappeared, you know, it was it was like zero visibility. And then of course
by the seventy eighteenth eighteenth century, it was really popular. Okay, yeah, it kind of it's recovery kind of coincided with the emergence of freemasonry in Europe.
Okay, yep, thank.
I guess if nobody else has any other questions, was there anything, Peter that you would like to maybe say to maybe like you know, advertise the book or to let people know or anything like anything you want to say before we wrap it up that may Yeah.
There's a whole series of books, you know, so people should check out Scarlet Imprint and theon publishing and Inner Traditions and published by all of them. So the Inner Traditions is the healing energy healing stuff. Scarlet Imprint is the Renaissance Tarot deck and Tarot book and the Higher Sophia decoding the architecture of that. Then publishing is doing the part of the sorry, the ritual and epiphany. So I'm like spread over the three publishers.
Nice prize.
The you know, Inner Tradition sends me people all the time. I don't think they ever told me about you. I think I have to say something to him about that.
I think the the energy healing thing is is not that popular amongst these terror community, which I think is a shame. It's almost like the rituals you're describing are seen as sufficient to do the job. And my own conviction is you need to do the energy work as well. You know, it's not enough to rely on you know, I totally agree on that, and you need to avail yourself of modern energy meridian techniques like emotional freedom techniques and so on. You know, they should be in everybody's
repertoire by now. I mean Gary Clay Craig proved them back in the eighties when he went to Vietnam Veterans Hospital and filmed it. And these guys had hoost traumatic stress disorder since the sixties. Now twenty years later, and he was just tapping on and clearing the traumas one after the other, you know, And here we are, they're
still dishing out powerful drugs for PTSD, you know. And we know that it's solvable by simply tapping on the meridians while having a loose connection to the trauma, the originating trauma. That's sufficient. It'll knock down PTSD to a minor anxiety within two sessions. And that's been proven now with medical trials. But still it's been known for half a century. And I don't I you know, what more can I say? People need to take more responsibility for their healing.
Oh you know, wow, well said I even, like I don't know, I'm sure you know of the man David Lynch, but I mean even just what he used to say about transcendental meditation and how he was showing that, like bringing that into schools and you know, just integrating that what wonders it could do for the human being. You know, So I totally agree, Like you have to actually put in the time and work to change your in what's going on in your head, and I think that could just make huge, huge opinion.
Do wealth with you? Yeah?
I do have another question that somebody asked before we wrap it up. I've seen statements that Jung was into mythriism. Does Peter have any comments on this?
Uh?
Young was into everything I mean Eastern Religion's mithraism. Uh. I mean he was an encyclopedic mind and curiosity. So yeah, absolutely anything to do with the the I kin a graphic world of of humanity's spiritual consciousness was was like his daily meat and bread. Yeah.
Absolutely, all right, Well, thank you very much, Peter.
Again, like even your taro, and believe it or not, the energy healing thing, I'm extremely interested in so hopefully maybe in the future we can have a discussion with you again. But this was awesome. I'm really really happy that we had John Headless. Thank you so much for suggesting him as a guest. I thought this was a banger. This was really good and I really appreciated your outlook and all the stuff you had to bring to the show.
Peter.
Before we wrap it up, though, I will have everybody plug there plug theirself again real quick. Hell Less Giant, thank you again for bringing up Peter onto the show and let everybody know about all those shows you're doing again.
Absolutely so. I've got Trialogus with Ethan today at some point, I think, and we've got Alchemy Mondays coming on tomorrow with Arrows up and we're going to be doing some more experimentation. And we've got the mail bag on Thursdays with me and Nick where we show symbols and read your mail. So send us your occult slash esoteric experiences at Headless Giant Podcast at gmail dot com and we will read those. Thank you, and you'll get stickers as well.
If you include your address, Nick will send you stickers.
Yes, and the sticker that I'm sending the occult symbolism has depicted off the inside of your rival and Jules next, please sir, let everybody know what's going on with you.
All right, this was a great episode. I learned a lot. Thank you Peter for coming on.
Yeuhs.
Y'all can follow me at Gray Pilled Pod on Twitter, Great Piled Underscore podcast on Instagram, go follow me on Rumble, YouTube, Apple Podcasts, Spotify, all that good stuff. If you want to support the show, you can go to patreon dot com slash Gray Pill Podcast. We have Patreon exclusive content we do over there. You'll see the Occult Rejects over there as well a bunch of familiar faces. Also, I
was gonna say I'm probably going live later today. Don't know what the show is gonna be yet, but probably tonight at some point, so stay posted on that. And this week I have a few shows. I believe Tuesday, Doc Brown is gonna come on and Tuesday, no, that's Wednesday. I think Wednesday, I have a couple shows. I may have to reschedule one for some other time this week than Thursday, because I think Robbie's gonna come on as well, and then Dana from Rotten Jules.
Is also gonna come on.
And I'm also dropping the Inquiries of Reality episode sometime today, So a bunch of stuff coming from Great Phill this next month, guys, Headless, we got to do a hand of zebazios, like a little deep dive on everything on the hand. I really am very interested in that. And y'all look out for the next episode on the Rustic Gods that we do dropping sometime this week. But great episode, guys, and I hope everyone has a great day.
Thank you again, No, thank you, Jules, appreciate you making it on. And last but not least before we let Peter h plug his stuff again, please Ethan let everybody know what is going on.
Well, that was so informative and inspirational. I love the idea of smoothing over the wrinkles of energetics with service. So thank you so much Peter for sharing. Ethan Indigo Smith easy to find on all the social media and I always appreciate people communicating and so forth, So thanks again everyone and Peter.
That was awesome.
Oh yeah, it was. And Peter, real quick, if you.
Don't mind, thanks.
Go ahead let everybody know what Nick. Yeah, let everybody know. If you don't mind repeating yourself from the beginning. Let everybody know where they can find all your amazing work, and let them know about all of your books please that you'd like to promote.
Oh, as I said, scholar imprint the publishing and energy healing stuff in traditions.
So anyway, just google me. That's true all over the internet. You can't miss it is true.
If you look him here, if you look him up for authors, you're gonna get tons of ship. So yeah, thank you again, Peter. That was it was really an awesome show. It was very informative for me because this is this is a topic. Yeah, this is a topic I don't know much about. So like, thank you for giving me some insight on this stuff. And again hopefully get you off for the tower and the energy stuff. That was really interesting that you brought that stuff up. Again,
thank you everybody in the chat. There was a lot of people in here, a lot of people dropping some good stuff. There was some names that I don't know if you were new or maybe I just noticed you. Now, thank you for for saying stuff and joining in on the live. That's why we do it. I really do love a lot of the comments that are added in there.
I do highly suggest for people who maybe catch the live as a re you know, rerun, check out the life chat as you're watching it if you can, because you will see information in there as well that I think helps, even with the guests or just other ideas. So again, thank you everybody, and until the next one, everybody be well later