You see, something's going to happen.
What's going to happen?
Thank you? What a.
Welcome to the cult rejects. In this episode I got my co host Jin the Ninja.
What is going on? Jin?
Thank you very much for joining me and being the co host. I'm sure pretty much everybody knows who you are ready for being one of.
The cult rejects.
But in case there's some new listeners that maybe you haven't heard yet in a few episodes, why don't you let everybody know what your deal is and where they can find your amazing works.
Thank you so much, Nick, and thank you for having me on. And thank you to Mark who was a guest, a great guest.
On my show.
I can't even remember the episode number, Mark, but it was a really great episode entitled Breath of Fire and we discussed Zelda about It was a far ranging discussion that talked about the metaphysics of anime and I think video games at least an as an introductory I mean, I could have gone on for three hours, but for what it was, it was like a really in depth conversation.
So I appreciate that.
And so people can check out my shows Threshold Saints, I am really interested in this idea of parafiction and metafiction. That's sort of the evolution of my show and what it's become, which is kind of like an idea that comes a little bit from chaos magic and then a little bit from contra Buddhism and this idea of clarifying narratives with the truth and sort of mixing them alchemically and so just like podcasting.
Really, thank you and all his links and everything will be in the bottom as well with the show notes, and thank you very much, Jin, I really do appreciate you getting this suggesting this guest. I'm thinking this is going to be very fun and interesting topic. H And that leads us to the guest, Mark Mark. Thank you so much for coming on. I know it was I think I left you hanging for a while. I had
things going on I knew, but finally finally got you on. Mark, if you can let everybody know, I guess you know where they can find your work and maybe give us a little bit of a I guess a background about like you know what you're into and you know what we're going to talk about here eventually.
Yeah, absolutely, uh yeah, I'm on Twitter as Solier, So you'll see that in my name there, you know. And I'm kind of a regular guy, you know, So I taste wine. I do wine collections. I have a winery in the mountains south of Los Angeles, and you know, I've been working on that for several years with some partners.
But being you know, on Twitter and X, I've you know, kind of created a I don't know, little side project of examining media in a lot of different ways, and originally started with like death stranding and the Legend of Zelda and is applying a cult metaphysics and analysis to you know, what are what are these things being presented
to us that are normally just a regular consumption. And I began to pick up on a lot of hidden trends and strange synchronicities, and through that, I've I've done a number of different threads, particularly on anime because they have a lot of strange things in them aside from normal you know, American television for instance.
Uh.
And you know, I do a little continental philosophy, but most of it is uh, you know, media studies. And I think we're at a really unique juncture in history. Uh, you know, everyone's kind of blost their minds a little bit.
We're inundated with technology, uh, mass media certainly changing people's perceptions, and uh, you know, I really want to understand how that affects, you know, me personally, that affects my friends that you know country I live in, and you know, how to navigate going forward as the world consistently changes, and that's accelerating, that's being amplified, and I think some of these you know, shows can really give us insights into ourselves and maybe taking the next step forward and
navigating the future.
Thank you, I appreciate that.
I know what we're going to talk about originally kind of talk about how do you just pronounce the name of this again?
I don't want to screw it up.
The Evangelian, Yeah, I pronounced it on Neon Genesis Evangelian, Evangelian.
You know it's made over tomato.
Yeah.
Yeah, I'm from New York. So I'm from New York. I could say however I want. I guess, so, yeah, it doesn't matter. I know we're going to kind of talk about that. But I mean, I think, you know, we were saying something prior, and I do think there's something behind this. And one thing I do want to even add too, believe it or not, a lot of suggested things I get to cover that is like something i'd have to watch. It's actually a lot of like
japanimation stuff. I've actually have suggested to me a lot some stuff I have looked at and I'm like, wow, that's just blatant, you know, And uh, I'd never really got like, really delved into the stuff too much. But it seems like it's kind of blatant and it's things are real popular and it's commercialized. I'm assuming there's probably a reason maybe for this, or.
Maybe it just works. I don't know.
It captivates people's attention anyway, and you can make money off of it. But I guess what I'm getting at is it just does seem from what I looked at, seems pretty prevalent amongst that japanimation with a cult and you know, you know, I guess maybe you were kind of like wondering, as you know, something to do with politics, occultism all that, maybe there's a reason for it to be going on right now. I know you have like maybe some theories on that. Maybe we could talk about that.
Yeah, uh, you know, I mentioned this on Jin's episode two. I had written an episode on the Breadth of Fire, which talked about you know, Japan's.
Foray into Western imperialism. You know, at the the end.
Of the nineteenth century, you know, with the the Meiji Reformation and how you know, Japan kind of abandoned the old shogunate and became you know.
Masonic market imperialist.
And you know, you could look at the last Samurai for instance, that's kind of you know Tom Tom Cruise doing you know, dances with wolves, but he's you know, uh, modernizing Japan, and it's it's a really interesting reflection on how the Western or sorry, the Japanese elite began to adopt a lot of.
Western occult symbolism. Uh. You know, many of them become indoctrinated into you.
Know, some form of liberalism, uh, some form of you know again Western uh militarism, and they start wearing all the same badges and the stars and and and so that's the beginning of their expansion into China, into the Southeast Asia. And you know, over time, there's you know, see World War two, the atomic bomb has dropped on them, and then the kind of society changes and they're almost like the leading precursor of what is happening around the world now.
You know, they a.
Lot of the country is devastated. They have a huge infrastructure rebuilding, and they adopt a lot of Western you know, economic models.
But through this, you.
Know, you have arcades coming out and these you know, brilliant light shows and cartoons, right like really become forefront and and something in this society kind of adopts that latches onto it. And and I you know, early on I noticed, going back to like the fifties and the sixties, there's weird occult themes in the Japanese anime even then.
And you know, it's only now being illuminated simply because I can you know, we can all go on these hyperlinks and surf the web and go, you know, make all these cross references, whereas you know, thirty forty years ago, you know, you would see that and go, oh, that's that's interesting. But the fact that it continually recurs, right, that's something that just caught my attention, and so I wanted to dig into it, you know, and then you start playing games or you know, we talked about Zeno Gears.
That's a highly cabalistic video game. Uh, Neon Genesis was actually really hard to find, you know, when I was a kid, and so it wasn't until years later that actually revisited as an adult, you know, Final Fantasy. Right, the guy's name is Sephiroth, you know, and you're like, that's a very strange name to just pick it for a villain. And and so I kind of was pulling that thread. And now that you know everyone has links and you can pass us all around, it's actually no,
there's a huge pattern there. And so I think somewhere in the Japanese adoption of Western philosophy, uh, you know, their alliance into you.
Know, like the like the G seven, you know.
A Western American occupation, and right there they're little ruled by a dragon emperor. And so there are I think affinities in that nation that maybe align themselves with this sort of a cult power structure. You know. I tend to refer to them as like the cosmopolity. They're they're almost like this old form of like bourgeois aristocracy that like it's like private old money you never heard of, right, and it's you know parts of all these like old bourbon habsburg.
You know, you can talk about like.
Black mobility, stuff like you can make yourself crazy picking us stuff apart, but you can't just abandon it.
And there are these hidden structures, and I think.
Japan is almost like the spotlight that allows us to then, you know, go behind the dark side of the moon and see like, oh there's something else here.
Yeah, I totally agree with you, Mark.
It's you know, I have my foot in anime twitter, perhaps significantly more than Nick does, So I see a lot of the sort of.
As I'm sure you do, and I've seen on your own threads.
A lot of people will sort of as the kids call it, cope with this idea that there is a sort of fundamental occult name mature of animation and video and video games. But there definitely is. You can trace it. Even in Owen Davies's book on the history of Grimore Publishing, he even mentions that there were grimoar is brought by
the Dutch in the sixteen eighties. So yeah, there are clear and there are Japanese translations of the Keys of Solomon, and so they have a clear idea that this was happening. And you can watch even the nineteen eighty one movie samurai reincarnation.
It's all about this. It's about a.
Christian samurai who gets murdered by the showgunate. He makes a deal with the devil, reincarnates seven of his generals, and then he must be killed by a magical swordsman. So there clearly is also an association with Christianity with occultism in Japan. And I think that you agree with this, but you can say Mark if you don't agree. But I think that there is something to that where they sort of think it's a very powerful or maybe a foreign sort of occult system that is in Christianity.
Yeah, absolutely, and right, And even you know James Clevel's Shogun, right, he even talks about all these missionaries, and for a long time the shogun that was a little you know, insular, and they were you know, keeping Jesuits at bay and all these like Franciscans.
And eventually right that that breaks.
But you know, I tend to it was something I noticed as a kid, and now that with social media it's just so amplified that I use it almost as like a scrying marror to write do almost psychoanalysis on myself.
Right, or to do some sort of depth psychology.
Or you know, whatever it is, but they are I think you almost enter in like these kind of hypnogogic free associative states, right, and so then from that you can get these really interesting perspectives. They're highly generative. And then that's kind of why I write.
A lot of my threads.
So one thing I wanted to mention was that something Nick brought up about the sort of fifties or you brought it up, Mark, but Nick commented on it.
It was all the fifties and sixties and the sort of post.
War infusion of anime with the sort of cubalistic and Masonic colors. There is a very famous Osama Osamu Tezuka manga about the life of the Buddha, but it's he also wrote a sort of a compendium or a companion. It's not really interrelated, but it's interrelated in a broadway about the Phoenix.
And so yeah, yeah, I'm sure you know.
What I'm talking about, right, Yeah, it's trippy.
So he did Metropolis too.
Right, Yes, So he's like a great manga master. He had worked at Disney for like I don't know, two years or so, but he clearly brought something back with him in this understanding. Like you can even look at like Astro Boy in the color like red, white and gold, and it's just it's it's it's there's something in it that he's carrying back and it's But it's interesting because when you look at him treat Buddhist metaphysics or Eustasian metaphysics,
it is different. You can see that there's a slight distinction between the between the systems, or at least his thinking on it, whereas the later, like the late the late eighties and the early nineties anime, you can see that they're blending these ideas in like Card.
Captor Sucker is a really good example.
Even Sailor Moon's a really good example where they're clearly adding like a little bit of Shinto on meoto Buddhism with kabbala, with ritual magic seals and pentagrams, and as you've noted, they often use very real invocation sigils in a lot in a wide range of anime.
Yeah.
Well, yeah, that was the weirdest thing because before you know, I would see this as a kid and I think, oh, maybe that's like an astrological sign or I didn't know what it was, and then finally years later I could do enough research and going these are actual magic sigils,
like somebody has done their homework. It's not like, oh, you know, I'm would drawing a scribble or it's a cheap replica, like I generally believe a lot of the guys at the higher end of Japanese culture do all this stuff, even though like hell Ninja Guidan, right, I mean, what.
Are they fighting Ishtar and he's he's a dragon. I mean, like all of these games are just a trip.
So and so, you know, talking about Metropolis, that's going back to what's his name, Fritz Lang or you know the Silent movie with the you know, talks about the Tower of Babbel and the and the mechanical Golum. That's almost kind of my operative thesis is that something in
the human imagination drives us into civilization. We build these power structures, and from our activities we begin to draw potencies from some hidden place and like this is a karma that like humanity has to somehow work through, and and by studying this it could almost become an antidote that we learn about ourselves and maybe try to speak to it without becoming just delirious or you know, because you make yourself paranoid and crazy?
Well what does that mean? Does that mean?
Uh?
And so I, you know, I try to at least create some of these threads that are more systematized and break it down rather than just you know, I mentioned that Charlie Damien where you just like you've gun bonkers and everyone you're just noticing incessantly, and so that that's kind of what's happening, is we become cartoons by going, well did you see that thing that happened today? Right,
It's it's like under the Silver Lake. You know, the guy is like just pulling all these threads and it's its form of masturbation, and he doesn't resolve anything, and he's just like some dude like you know, squatting in someone's apartment at the end of the movie and like nothing else to figure it out.
So there definitely is a fine line between schizo poster and like high IQ noticer. So but you know, I think that's totally right, Mark. I think that, you know, it's it's all pervading. So what do we do with that that knowledge? Do we do we schizophos about it? Or do we uh, you know, sort of look at it as a hermoneutic look at us as part of like a system in which at least to understand at least a little bit at least, you know, climb up a little higher. So I agree with you. I think
that's where what I sort of think about. I know, Nick and I talk about this a lot off cameras or a lot off show, is that like what do you do? What do you like make of the the occults everywhere? So you might as well, you might as well obtain the dragon.
So yeah, yeah, I mean, I uh, that's why I wrote that last thread on you know krscuro and uh, you know, how to just dive into a lot of this stuff. So everyone tends to be skipping on like the surface of these little things and it's like a cat, you know, chasing the laser beam, you know, and I want to kind of figure out, like what is the
actual thing that's directing the laser beam. And so right, that's why I like write about neon genesis of you know, what is what are these larger power structures really doing? Because they frankly don't care about.
You know, what we're doing day to day, right, we're almost a liability.
So you know, whether it's the economics, they're going to make things more expensive, they're going to start another war, right, the biggest thing is like how does the society or civilization go to the either the stars?
But what what can we do on the ground.
Okay, well, first of all, it's just understand that the system is maybe not aligned with us.
So you know, probably maybe.
Be at least on the edge of the system, have some form of financial independence that's much easier said than done. Probably be tied in a land a little bit more. Maybe just read and exercise a lot more, you know, and try to find like minded and somewhat somewhat measured people, you know, to act as a counterbalance against the hysteria
that you know, I continue see online. You know, there's there's almost two worlds where we're in the one of the the timeline it just keeps going and everyone's like spun up, and then it's like, well, I have to go to work and I have to you know, I got to make do with the you know, the things that I'm giving. You know, folks on your relationships, you know, talk to the people you know that are in your life. And and so that's kind.
Of the balance.
And you know, that's why I wrote on the Neon Genesis was because you know, like Shinji for instance, like a lot of that is about these people wrestling with their their internal emotions and trying to connect with people while there's this larger space opera that's you know, unfolding
around them. And so these things are very real simultaneously, and you know, it's not an either or, it's a it's a yes and yes and yes, and but then to integrate it in a way that you know, we can be somewhat a little creative and unhinged, but then we're also busy, productive and present for the people in our lives.
You definitely need to have a balance.
Sure, yeah, well I'm sure that's something right that you've talked to, you know about with the Oto all these personalities and everyone's like it's a power trip or backstabbing, and oh.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, this is it. It's a silly it's a silly game going on over there.
They even keep it short, just like just like the way it is over there with like ego trips. It's like this, I have one kid that like I'm kind of still cool with that's like in it. And the only reason he's been staying into this because he thinks he can rise up and actually get like a position in something. And he was like, he's like he's like, yo, like eighty percent of these things already given away, like people that have like these positions. He's like, they're all feminists.
He's like, I'm never gonna have a fucking voice here at all.
Yeah.
Well, I mean, but that's the thing too, right, is like masonry, magic, you know, sex, They're almost right, those occult forms are now mainstream in the form of corporations, right, literally, corporations like modern business is emerges from the East India company, right, and all these colonial powers that had charters from the queen or you know, the king, whoever it was, and
so we're living in that world. These structures emerge that are very hierarchical, and it all becomes wheeling and dealing and how can I come out on top? And and so now when you you know, you see these things like feminism, it's like, on the face of it, yeah, I have no problem you know with you know, you know, minorities or people being you know, you know, we hear their voices, yes, but when it's used as a tool to just kind of silence any you know, real discussion about hey, are we going.
On the right direction as a people? Does this make sense? Right?
That then it's like okay, no, I'm not on board. And it's almost a form of like corporate eugenics that you can then use to write because you're you're you're dissolving nations and it's all about labor markets at a certain point, and we're almost returning back to these large trade conglomerates, you know, and we're on the high seas because we do live in this corporate magic thing.
You know.
We could talk about like admiralty law a little bit, or like Jordan Maxwell and a lot of his stuff, but like that that is actually I think a valid form of analysis, and so all of these things kind
of fold into themselves there. There there's no bifurcation. There isn't a hard line in the sand, because if you know, there's enough of the study, you begin to understanding like, oh wow, this is almost like a living fluid pan psychic you know, reality, right, And that's why I refer to like the theater and things like that.
Definitely theater did you want to say something.
I just I think what you said Mark was really interesting, just as you can look at the sort of the corporeal body not just in one property of media, but in media or as you're saying, in economics as a whole, like you're saying, the whole body is kind of like the Golam or the Adam Cadman, the whole economy.
It's just like it's kind of.
Interconnected loosely but also broadly and also deeply in one way of thinking, right, there are at least they have at least some kind of you know, electrical charge or dialectrical relationship between the two, whether whether they're fully integrated
or not. So I think that's really interesting that you can look at one small property as looking at like one specific cell, like looking at Evangelion or breath of Fire, and that's just looking at the micro And then what they're talking about is the macro.
Yeah.
Well, right, and I think even using the matrix is probably a really good, you know, tool to just plug in right this computer programming. Right, we talked about this, you know, and on your show of you know, either the fighting games or you know, the if I'm going to do the hadouken or all these you know, jump kicks, and the same thing, how do I manifest the reality through this energetic system And that totally tracks back into the ceremonial magic or or forms of gestalt psychology, And
that's basically what neon Genesis is all about. Right in this it's almost like human instright. Human instrumentality is probably one of my primary interests of how do I play the human instrument in the most effective way?
And what are going to be.
What what will be the results from those interactions? And can we all play together? We can do our solos, we can do a collaborative orchestration right an arrangement, or or we can have created a wild dissonance and no, I'm gonna be the I'm gonna be the lead singer.
I'm gonna you know.
And you can see this in bands too, So it's it does all feed into one thing. And so that's I'm I'm a little disappointed to see everyone kind of go crazy and maybe not align with a better future.
I think this is interesting, just as like maybe a broader commentary on your work is that your work is about the hero's journey and it's about that specific thing that you just said that we get to determine, like a large part of our will determines reality. Right, it's a reality shaping, just like being online or on social
media is reality shaping. Like the narratives that we say on the timeline, which is magic because it's traveling through time and space in other people's minds, especially if the tweet is popular.
So I mean that's magic. So the things that we say.
Are broadly like determinant of what that where we at least can influence to a small degree.
Yeah, but now it's all mainstream, Like all of these methods and magic practices are vulgar, but know that they're just covered in corporate jargon and how can I get more productivity out of this person?
You know?
And so people are it's like.
The office or was just like grinding away lifeless because yeah, you're actually not contributing, you know, your own destiny to this You you've been subsumed or absorbed or or right, there's almost like a hex put on you and they're
channeling your energy. And uh, that doesn't mean those things are bad, you know, I don't I don't want from this discussion for anybody to think like, oh, I just like hate companies or I hate business, Like, No, that's that's not that's not it Like they actually serve a purpose. That's how we you know, a company is a magic arrangement of space and time with other people. Right, it's but we've somehow made a distinction. Oh no, that's not
the case. And right, and we're actually summoning magic artifacts through these incantations. Only we call them plans or schematics or you know, intellectual property, and and.
So they're there. There's there's no there's no fine line there.
But and so uh, that's why I think neo genesis is actually like the best thing to talk about because it all blurs together.
It's all military, it's all personal.
Uh, you know, magic space making interfacing and fighting aliens in some way.
Yeah, let's get let's get I think uh, I think we're already. I think we'll get into Evangelian. But I do want to say one thing broadly about maybe just like the new media video games and animes specifically, is that the visual the visualization sometimes that they depict are actually very esoteric visualizations that you would use in tontrac Buddhism, and not just Tondraic Buddism, but I think broadly like
the kind of East Asian sorcery. You could even say like a lot of the metaphysics that are just seeming seemingly stylistic or esthetic choices actually have like a deeper metaphysical implication. So there's like an idea that you could use even in chaos magic.
Like Peter Carroll writes about this in cybermagic, is that.
You can take the ideas from the video game itself, apply it to the sodna, or apply it to what he doesn't call it an I'm calling but when you're he's doing magic, he's actually taking the what he sees on the video game and he's applying it to that internal whatever is happening inside of his mind. So he's actually kind of remixing this meta reality what he's perceiving
and then also what he's exerting his will on. So I think, but I think it's true that you can use there are actually a lot of very deep interesting color choices.
Uh.
Even the Hadukin thing that you said, Mark.
Like, that's that's like the ball of basra energy that you like in yourself.
And that you draw from, you know, the void.
Element, you could say, so there's something like really, there's some really deep shit there, so.
Real quick, I mean, I'm just trying to ask you, do you think the aliens are even like kind of in a aspect, yeah.
Oh yes, right, I've written a little bit on like Breadth of Fire too, and right even right, Neon Genesis is kind of time about these alien things. I suspect technology is an amplifier, it's a mirror. It's a horizon by which our future expands. And we're at a point where the technologies are harmonizing, they're converging, and it's going
to radically change humanity. And so I think the West right now, right, a lot of sovereign nations are saddled with huge amounts of debt, and you know, twentieth century
global capitalism doesn't work. And so what we're seeing now like in Ukraine or Israel or you know, Syria Saudi Arabia, this is sort of a split along you know, Russia, China, Iran, and then you know, Saudi Arabia is maybe somewhat of the political football because they have a lot of the oil and so this is like it's an arms race, and so I think a lot of the alien stuff is mostly military technology that you know, they're using to first of all, just get a measure on psychometrics, so
the population, they'll use that as a form of camouflage. It sounds nonsense, It sounds insane. Who would believe that or is it real? So I do believe that a lot of the technology is much further along than we've been led to believe. And you know, if you're like you know, the Pentagon or Five Eyes, you certainly have an interest in, you know, controlling you know, international trade.
You want everyone to live in your franchise. And so we're I think we're at an inflection point historically, and that's why we're seeing the preponderance of all these UFOs, and everything's just being dialed up to the point where there's so much noise in the system that you can't really figure out what's going on.
And and so the alien.
Is just like the cherry on top, you know, and maybe that is like the un blue being really comes out right. And if that were the case, you know, I probably lose my marbles and just like pack my bags and.
Go to the hills at that point, because it's like martial low.
At that point, everything's off the table or on the table, I should say, you know, you're gonna lose your constitutional rights or your civil liberties.
And and so I don't.
Think people really understand like where we are historically, and you know, it's almost like we're on the verge of you know, World War one again, you know, not to make it sound you know, extreme or or hyperbolic, but we could go in a lot of different directions. And I think the alien is a representative of those you know, flights of uh you know, uh flight or you know escape, right, the escape of not only the world, but but like our own preconceptions of ourselves.
And so that's why I really latched on all this in the thread.
Yeah, yeah, I just wanted to get an idea because in my opinion, I do think, just my opinion, I do think the use of aliens is like it deeply occulted archetype or multiple things, you know. So I just was wondering, like if you were possibly viewing it like that as well, considering just to show you think it is already a cult and it's got aliens mixed in there.
I'm sure that it's used for something, you.
Know, yeah, I mean, look at I was right. I Mean the dude literally is like a gray alien, you know.
So right, this is the thing we see all over the internet. Oh, it could be it's an angel, I'm channeling a higher intelligence, or it's a you know, inter dimensional alien or right, it's it's just the concept of the other, of the outside, and of the unknown, just manifest in a shape right in that shape could take on any appearance. Right, So it's like it's just this, it's it's the axe, right. That's why I also find it fascinating that twin is now called X. You know,
it's it could be anything. It's just a placeholder. And we're at this point in time where the change is so rapid and the human evolution is kind of right, this is where you get to either transhumanism, right, which could be a benefit, it could be totally destructive.
And that's literally what Neon Genesis is all about.
You know, Like the beginning of the show is like there's been massive climate change, there's been a catastrophe, there are smart cities, and there's all this technology, and now you have right advanced research institutes, you know, battling chaos in some way, or or in the form of the angel, you know, and so these things kind of just take on this exteriority that human beings have to collectively manage.
Thank you.
Did you want to say something before we, I guess get into the actual topic so yourself.
Oh no, I appreciate that, Thank you, Nick.
I just wanted to say that this series for me is a very I would say important in terms of when I first saw it, I did not understand how deep the metaphysics was, but I probably recognize some parts of it because it's so obvious. Just like the I'm sure that you'll get into Mark, the cabalistic tree falls down into the intro with all the paths intact. So there's something really interesting about even the just the outer presentation.
For me, as like a whatever the twelve year old or however old I was, there was something.
It was a very meaty.
It was very like, oh, this is like a little transgressive, this is a little like ritual magic. There's something like a little deeper here.
Yeah, I mean, and you know, Idiokaiano, he himself, you know, has stated like he was depressed and he was struggling with a lot of stuff like during the show and that's imparted in the in the care right.
So if you want to kind of put in the context.
Of a hero's journey, right, this whole thing is like humanity going on on its hero's journey at the you know, as in the macro and the micro, in the children, right, the future of humanity, but also you know, collectively as can we not destroy ourselves? And you know, like literally going into all this stuff, like I'll just talk about I have the thread pulled up so we could just you know, look at the slogan right nerve.
You know, God's in his heaven, All's right.
With the world, and you know that's I'm pretty sure it's a vine leaf and it's nerve. Right, So all of these things are already suggestive of, you know, something Christian, and it's like a Christian science right at the forefront.
I was going to say, it almost has physiology, kind of like being thrown in the face ready.
Right, Yeah, So the whole thing is.
And I'm you almost using these these threads as a means of fleshing out a bigger like a broader theory, you know, and hopefully maybe down the road I could write a thread that tieses them all together in one final well maybe not a final thing, but a general outline of like how to navigate all this.
But you know, right, the second page is second impact.
Right, So they discovered Adam in Antarctica of all places.
Right, so we're you know, you could.
Now go into oh maybe it's a Nazi moon based thing, you know, with it's the ice wall. Right, We're already talking about Antarctica. So these things have these correspondences in the media today that are being thrown in our face.
So you really interesting.
I just want to throw this in there real quick. We had this guy, Leon Southgate on recently that should drop actually probably before this, and he's like real big into orgon and stuff, and he's like studying all this other stuff and like like like they're finding I think, like other smaller things of life now or things that like, believe it or not, something that's kind of dead, something
could almost come from it. He was going on about something and he said, the most abundance of that stuff is found in like ice, and he says he does question now the whole thing with Antartica because he says, technically that should be like crazy spot to find this type of stuff it's as silly as it sounds.
And like, I if people.
Were to hear the way we were actually talking about, because I can't you know, whatever there's but it's above me. But I mean when the guy explains like what's going on with Orgon and all this stuff and how like what what it does and how people are looking at it as like life or consciousness, now you're almost like, could that actually be with these fucking people? But doing up there? Doing up there now? Because it's all ice. I mean, they're not doing anything with it, are they.
I mean, I don't know, maybe they are, but you know what I'm saying, it's just like really weird how something like that wild and basic and powerful actually can be found in snow and ice cubes and we're not.
Allowed to go to an article I don't know, just to be hopest.
Yeah that's the trip.
Yeah, they've got that.
That the what is it that they've got a treaty like you can't really go you can't drill for anything down there, you can't really sail down there, and and so there is right there is a thread of this, like you know the Hyperborea bros, you know, getting hung up on you know, the Nazi UFOs and stuff, but it is being put out there, and again it's contextualized
with clandestine technology. So I do suspect though that like there are proprietary and top secret uh forms of metaphysics and ontologies that are not released to the public because their weapons. Right, because if if I had an ability to engage with reality in a certain way, that would.
Give me a competitive advantage.
And so what we tend to, you know, live with generally is you know consumer Oh I saw someone's you know, I saw some boobs and some butts and some.
Guy and there's a little romance.
Oh, there's a little drama, and that's kind of like we can talk about that stuff, but God forbid, you know, we're going to you know, improve ourselves spiritually or you know, become independent and strong and whole like no like stay in the in the in the in the dust bin. And so I do think the smartphone and all this connectivity does amplify it in both ways. Right, It can make you insane and now you're obsessed and you're studying all the ice, but it does allude to something else.
And I don't think, you know, I think we should at least pay credence to the possibility that those things are very real, all that quack science, all the mk Ultra Start Project, Stargate. I put a lot of stock in those things. How they actually work in practice, I don't really know, right because we don't have that access and we don't have you know, the patents or.
The clearance for it.
So Mark, I'm looking at your EVANGELI on Throad right now, and I'm the section on the I know you're probably not even have gone here, but about the children, and so it's just thought you could go over because I think that Nick, and also people watching we'll find the names of it really interesting. And the three kids you mean, yes, the DARPA program that is like the Marduke Institute and United Nations.
Yeah, I mean there was like that's kind of nuts, Like, right, Marduke, what is he the Babylonian god of the storm?
Right?
This again we're going back to the concept of this like the right Empire of Marduke fights Tiamat and you know it's almost like what is it the theogony right of the Titans and the Greek gods right now, you know, taking over there's this kind of changing of the Guard.
It's put into the future. But yeah, so Marduke is basically like, you know, it's like DARPA or you know, the Ghostbusters, right, you generally believe of Ghostbusters is fairly real, you know, like all this ESP stuff, right, human beings have a ton of potential. It's mostly being squashed and what is known is like, right, like why would you want that to be public knowledge? Right, that's not even a conspiracy. It's like, hey, this is actually valuable. I
want to be able to sell it, you know. It's like if you had any sort of business plan, like, yeah, I want to monetize it. And so like this shot where it says like top secret only, you know, top secret for your eyes only. That's from the show, right, Like in Japan is actually draws heavily on all this UN stuff, and so it's almost like Japan during the sixties and seventies became like the UN's like trial ground for the post war era of like, Okay, now we're
going to try to institute these policies. And it's repeatedly shown again and again United Nations. They've got the tanks, right, They've got it's a top secret UN program. Marduk Is references Babylon and the three children. They're they're all gift they're gifted children, and they've been selected from birth or they're genetically engineered, and their names are all loaded with these insane references.
Let me find it on the on.
The thread, right, So Asuka, right, she's the redhead. It's literally the feminine version of Akira. Right, and Akira is a reference is like right means shining light. And all the kids are psychics and they're espers, and again it's his play on technology, and you know, the character starts absorbing all this metal and becomes this huge machinic monstrosity in a very similar way, you know, to what we're
almost doing on our own. And so it's you know, it's almost like our magic spells have like gotten out of control and we need to like reel them in. It's it's almost like Fantasia, you know, with the Sorcerer's Apprentice and he's getting the brooms going well, and now they're kind of got running wild, flooding the you know, the Wizard's laboratory and he's going, oh man, I got
to fix this mess. And so a lot of this is like I think we can begin to grapple with how does technology wildly distort our own potential?
And how's it running her own lives? So right, and and all.
These kids have like huge psychological issues. They can all be like identified in like cluster A, B or C. But yeah, Asuka is you know, the the alternative to a Kira shining fragrant. Like her last name is uh, her middle name is Langley c I A right.
Like uh what yeah, like so on that head.
You know, like okay, and soriy you blue green dragon and she's the firebrand.
She's like hot headed, and you know she does crazy stuff.
Her mom killed herself and uh, you know there's all these flashbacks with the kids and right again it's kind of reference to the dolls or the play things of
you know, God or the gods. It's kind of a trip, you know Shinji, Right, we got the picture of him that's literally you know, his father's desk, his father's office is placed between the capstone of the pyramid and and the and the base and right, the shadow it creates is right, uh, you know what you could consider right a tifferreth or you know, or you know, the Israeli Star David or you know ren Fan and the Union of Above and the blow and it's a shadow cast
and then the floor of the office is literally the tree alike.
It's this huge cabalistic expression.
And he's right, his name represents you know, the true ruler New expansion. So right, this is like what what what what we alluded to in the other episode of uh, you know, like the the death and rebirth, almost like the way Horace is. And so he's kind of like this Horus figure or this potentially a Christ figure, but certainly a much more compromised, you know version. He's a child, he's been abused by the father in like this like kind of fallen demiurgic way. And his last name is
uh in a car anchor wrath rage. So there's something keeping him anchoring him to this physical world.
Uh.
And he's he's actually kind of a like a you know, a negative antagonist. He's he's, you know, your quintessential failure. And so the whole movie, not the whole series, he's like really struggling to step up the whole time, and he just resents everyone and he feels cut off. Uh and then ray Uh right, that's zero spirit, my shepherd Ayanami twilled waves. Right, that's almost like this quantum physics thing.
And she's like cloned again and again. She keeps getting killed in the series, and so she's like, you know, hell with like which one am I? She's also the clone of right, uh, Shingy's mom, and there's all this like weird sexual tension between the two of them, like he's kind of like into her. And then there's a shot of like Gendo like like it's like his daughter, but the clone of his dead wife.
Right, So all of this is like.
Super Freudian, Right, I touched again on right Oedipus and right, all these kind of these Greek themes psychoanalysts, uh, highly prevalent in the whole series.
Uh.
And then the the cloning chamber right literally is like this this brain cylinder and on the floor of this on her cloning chamber, the dub dummy plug plant is from the British Library, right from the urs Ghotia. Like that is such a bizarre thing to have in a cartoon, Like what I like? I Right, And there's like a Tessa ract the black cube four corners right this right, the elements and ether right, and it's like Ether is almost like the Oregone anyways.
And so all of this is like pretty wild and sorry, yeah, I don't want to keep.
What did you mention about thea.
So if you look, yeah, in the thread, I have a shot of this.
I can't find his threat unfortunately. Yeah right, I was going through.
You know, you know what, I didn't realize real quick just to uh so you know, I can get this link and maybe catch up something. I noticed you big into Twin Peaks.
I'm huge in the Twin.
Yeah, I just noticed going through your your Twitter, I was like, I've seen him post David Lynch a Twin Peaks a few times. I was like, this is interesting, nice, nice.
I did not know that it's the same thing. Man, Oh it's right. And so it's like.
It's funny too.
How you mentioned the Goatia and I'm thinking about you know, I'm seeing Twin Peaks because even in Twin Peaks, at one point on the side of the chalkboard in like the police office, there is a sigil from the Goasia, one of the demons.
Yeah, yeah, I think I started.
Yeah, I mean, have you've seen this show, right, yeah?
Yeah, I'm a huge fan. Yeah, yeah, big.
Dad's trick to be right, and it's like the yeah, the whole thing's nuts.
And right he's what is he like the Zen supposed Zen Buddhist And you know, I think he's probably an I hope he's a nice guy, but yeah, but the major in Twin Peaks, he's like part of the same thing. Oh, it's there's these interdimensional alien maybe thing or their demons. Right, this almost goes right into X Files, right, and then all of Lynch's movies are almost like this, right again, this dream state that you like wander into and there's
like so much meaning. And and then actually when the when the new season came out, somebody made a post a couple of weeks ago saying it's like, you know, now America has been sort of separated and blown apart into smithereens, and now we're just like living in these like private vignettes and and right, the story like barely coheres only for like Lynch is insane, right, unfolding an involution of the of the whole narrative. But like that that's how how I'm approaching a lot of this stuff.
Is like we're into Twin Peaks, like we're in deep and it's like everything means everything, and it's like pay attention and pull the thread and just be careful that you don't spin yourself out.
But yeah, that is interesting.
It was like, all right, sorry, I forgot where. Oh so, yeah, you did mentioned something about the urs gatia, Right, I forgot where was that something because you saw something in the show, like a symbolism for that.
Yeah, it's yeah, it's in the show.
And so one of the three children, you know, the girl who's the I know, gets super convoluted. The girl who's the the clone of the dead scientist's wife is being like her sphere is being channeled back into the bodies through a glyph on the arts go asia like it's in the laboratory, and then it says, right, it's with the three divine written in divine names of Romanized Hebrew that are split into nine sections.
Right.
Each one of the nine sections contains names commonly allotted
onto relevant numbers of the caballistic tree life. And I've heard people like, oh, you know, Hideaki, you know said I wanted to make like a cool show, and I saw some of this and I thought it would be cool if I just like threw it in there, and you know, I think he's being really tongue in chek because there's there's just way too much attention to detail in the whole like in the in the whole show, I mean, this is like that that like that's even
like in the cartoon. It is like bizarre that that's someone's doing a ton of research and you don't just like casually throw it in there.
And then.
I just want to say that that that's hand drawn.
So the sequences are drawn by a group of people that must be looking at the actual glyph or sigil, and a lot of anime uses the correct sigils. That's what's really interesting. That's what catches my eye in particular, is that they don't it's not just like make believe. They're actually like looking at medieval grimoires, European grimoiirs, not always Europeans. Sometimes they will use Buddhist cinem script, but
they actually use real spells. Like the spells are like very close to how they would be, and there the colors that they assign are actually very significant. And so even in this sequence that you're talking about where she's in the lab and her as you said.
Her name means zero.
So she is.
Inherently the vesca pisces, or the vessel, the empty vessel through which to be imbued into spirit or spirits to be imbued into her. But she's kind of the negative forces like interaction, and she has that very purple of yasod hair. She wears like a quicksilver kind of jumpsuit.
So yeah, there's.
Absolutely like it's it's like a it's like almost letting you see a ritual if you were like maybe the maybe the plot of like the kids and all that stuff.
Yeah, that's like the scary sort of like outer ritual component.
That's just how they're containing it.
But it's really like it's about the colors, it's about the shapes, it's about.
Yeah, how it all works together.
And then plus its movement and sound, so it's like a really perfect ritual in consolation.
Yeah, it's really it's competent. And then they're there's they're putting this right in your face.
It's right, and this is this show came out with thirty years ago, right, so it's not like a lot of this was like common knowledge, not not at least the way it is out there now, where you know you can go on some random form, and there's quite a few knowledgeable people like you had to go look all this stuff up, or you had to be initiated in this stuff.
And this is the one.
Thing that I keep coming back to. I cannot believe like for fifty sixty years this stuff has just been like thrown out there, and in some ways, like that's how I was initiated into like mystery religions and right perennial philosophy and begun to like explore magic accidentally.
You know, it's through I got initiated through cartoons. Yeah, it's a trip.
And so you know Genda Lacari, he's the mad scientist, he's Shinji's father. He's the head of Nerve and right, he wants to become god. He's literally on a path to godhood.
And he's kind of a psychopath.
He doesn't care about anybody, and his son has been abused, and so he manipulates them. And it turns out though that the second impact, right, this huge.
Climate catastrophe, you know.
Help them summon the power of Adam or these angels. But now they're coming to life too, ro merge with Adam again. And so you know this Adam is like this literally like an alien that came from outer space from this like you know, it's almost like Halo, you know, the the what are they called the Forerunners, right, this is like their version of it, and they crash landed
on Earth, you know, millions of years ago. However, it was two strands of this species, Lilith and Adam and the angels are right, Adam's tree of life in the in the Lilan or the descendants of Lilith, who was again what was she Adam's first bride, but she was like, you know, a demon or she was corrupt and she tried to send him on his own way. So this
whole bloodline they're like fighting. And then Ava is literally right, the union of the technology that the children like go into, so they're like biological meccas of the mother in some way. It's kind of strange, but.
No, it's very it's very cabalistic. It's just like you like, you know, this market is like the it's the outer vessel. They take on this kind of like shape that they shape, so it's like their Golam. Nick had me on to speak with one from one on one and he talks a lot about the monkey.
So it's like very like that.
It's like they're creating a bio mechanical golum with planetary metals, colors, all the associations, plus they place the driver who has these innate separatic associations each of them themselves, and then they place them into the golams as kind of like a battery or a life force or a breath, you could say. And it's sort of right. It takes they take form in the in the higher heaven. So they are leaving Malcouth, they are leaving like the material world,
and they're going higher than Ossia. I think that's sort of the idea too. But there is, like you've said this several times, but there's a very gnostic component, like a very nag Hamadi component to a lot of anime like you are you are, you are not never quite trapped in the world, but there's always a way to transcend it. There always is a way to move through it.
There's always a way to change your dimension. There's like this gnostic idea that, yeah, the the universe is just like a bunch of intertange changeable worlds that you you.
Know, can travel to at will.
Like that's a very common theme, and I would say a very common theme with Evangelion, like this idea, Yes, you're trapped in your psychology. I know you like that psychoanalytic lens, and I find it really interesting.
I just am not strong in it.
But for me, I think it's it's like about uh, it's telling you, like the world is what you sort of imagine it to be in some ways, and that's sort of what the down of all of the characters is. They can't get they're so stuck in their own heads all the time. They can never really break free even though they live in this fantastical and magical world.
Yeah the uh, right, And so a lot of the show is you know, it's.
Uh I talk about uh, what was it?
It's the kind of boilerplate Kaiju battles, right, and so yeah, they're fighting the aliens, and that's you know, that's cool. There's all this action, but then there's the kind of the interpersonal. A lot of these episodes just go off on these like side tangents of like people struggling with their own their own bullshit, or they're actually traumatized. Right, the world is kind of ending, and a lot of the times you know, the kids are like and I don't know if I can do this.
I'm trying to protect.
Humanity against these angels, these aliens, Like what's going to happen? And uh, Right, the civilization is being run by a smart grit at this point, and so all the technology has been converging into the human instrumentality project.
Right, how can we.
Leverage the potential of the human being to not only you know, basically uh, subdue.
The powers of God? Right?
Like the how can we overcome God and sort of take our place or become one with it through the Tree of Knowledge?
Right, It's it's.
Almost that, you know, the fall from grace be taking to its own conclusion. Right, I'm we're now going to through the Tower of Battle, go back to heaven.
And right, you can see this in.
The Nerve headquarters, right, Like they're literally a sunken or is it they're a pyramid and like an obelisk underground, right, and there's this like representation of above and the below, the dual pyramids. They're underground. They talk about the end of the world. Right, that is like a total like rebirth death and rebirth right magical system and right through the whole show sale starts coming in. So they're like
the but I would refer to like the Cosmopolity. They're almost like this ancient power structure that.
Rules the world.
We're behind the un behind all the banks, and they're trying to become one with God and by killing all the angels, right, kind of this very transgressive maneuver. They're going to use the technology, they're going to exploit everyone,
and and like that's what the show is. So all these people are kind of working through their stuff fighting these angels, and you know, things start getting pretty hairy, and they find out that you know, oh yeah, we're basically space aliens, and so I don't know, like, you know, if that's going to be used at some point, you know, in the future like oh we are aliens or yeah.
I just don't know where it goes. So it's it's pretty interesting. I don't know if you get any other questions or comments before I keep going.
No, you can go ahead.
I was gonna ask because you want to show me like where you are on your posts.
I was going to try to oh sure, yeah, yeah.
I've kind of just been floating around. But at this point, you know, we went through the three kids and get I know, Acari just because there's so many characters and you could go down the line, but I think where I would be at this point is the one about Slee and seated above the United Nations. And then there's a revolutionary girl Utana link of which I would also recommend people check out. Like that's an absolutely insane show.
Very Age of Aquarius.
In fact, yeah, I mean I happen to just go as an aside, I you know, went on YouTube to listen to those songs again when they're dueling and they're like I used you guys should check it out after we're done talking because you can find the translations in English and it's crazy shit. So yeah, I'm at the Selee and there's all those like almost tombstones where they're having the meeting, and there's that like red light and they're all illuminated with the numbers.
You gotta see that one.
Maybe it went too far, It might be halfway or see go back up?
Oh wait, yeah, right there a little more.
A little more upward, which way go.
Down a little bit.
One more?
Yeah, so you see where the oraporos and the tectratus. Yes, yeah, so right, and again Selee writes German for soul, there's the seven eyes, seven powers. It's a chromatic image and it's coming down. So it's like this inverted pyramid again, kind of like the the elohem coming back down to then grab the golum and then bring it like back to the heavens. This is like very large structural force, right, Obviously the pyramid is very important, and we go to
human instrumentality. Is comes from a sci fi author, Hordwainer Smith and right again he's he's a spook basically US Army officer East Asia scholar psychological Warfare JOHNS. Hopkins, right, Like, so they're using they're using a term from some spooks sci fi novels that came out what fifty sixty years ago, right, And all of these are representative of, you know.
Human instrumentality.
Mankind, you will never be the same, you know, in the world of men who are machines that weep the rediscovery of man. So right, and then there's this he's got this other one those Luciferian scarlet woman. Right, I mean it's like it's crazy, right, So they're using all these terms that are representative of larger economic and metaphysical changes,
and the whole show is like that. It's almost like we're all we're seeing what the big plan is, you know, or at least that's what they have to do, right, we have to get off the planet.
Otherwise destroy ourselves. At least that's what I would think is in their mind or would be suggestive of the show.
And it turns out, right, you see again Lilith is crucified to the cross at the bottom of the the bottom of the Nerve center, you know, the aliens get
out of control. And it turns out though that Selee betrays Nerve and they're like, no, We're going to become one with God and they activate, you know, like once they've killed the angels, they activate human instrumentality and right, they want to become one with the divine And so in the show, the last two episodes are like Shiny finally coming to terms with you know, wow, I am the biggest obstacle in my whole life, Like I really did push people away. We know, what can I do
to integrate those people? How can I you know, grow as a person. And so Hideakaiana got a ton of crap for it because people were like, bro like I want to see angels fight. I want like a climactic resolution goal show. And so he was getting like a bunch of hate mail and like death threats, and so finally they released the end of Evangelian, which is like the really famous sequence, but that was like a separate film,
like I don't know, like two years later. And so this all then ties into right the Breath of Fire three, where I talk about this is the construction of the Third Temple, and I go into that's about cybernetics and quantum met well not quantum but met changing metaphysics, new technologies, and that how the military and universities have been collaborating for decades to accelerate write something. And you know, it's like we get along for the ride, otherwise it's going to get really weird here.
And I think we're living there right now.
Yeah, I did want no, go ahead, go ahead.
I Mark wanting to ask if you could expand on the stuff you talked about the Essolin Institute and like the Human Potentiality movement, because I think this, as you mentioned in the thread, has a lot to do with the series as a whole, but also with maybe transhumanism in the future.
Oh yeah, so you know, Esslin's out by Big sur They have a lot of connections to like SRI so the Stanford Research Institute, which is obviously really huge for right, Silicon Valley has been one of the main funders of technology in general. And if you kind of explore this, and some of my other thread threads allude to it.
But a lot of the stuff with.
Like the Hippies and the New Age movement, the Age of Aquarius tied directly back into like theosophy global global federalism.
And what's his name?
Like a not her name, h P. Blavatsky, but then what's his name? The Indian dude that they wanted to be like the Second Coming. I'm drawing a blank on his name, but.
Yeah, Christian Murty.
Yeah, so all of this is like and if you guys, actually, did you see The Three Body Problem at all on Netflix?
No, I've heard about it, but I've not seen it.
Yeah, I mean, you know, it's it's the first few episodes are really good, but like there's literally a scene in the show where they're like in the the meditation room of the.
Un which was donated.
By like the Loosest Trust, which was like an Alice Bailey adjacent project. So like the in and of itself is like wildly connected to like all these weird theosophical, New Age occult movements. And so then after World War Two, right, you have even the Beatniks and the Beatles and the Grateful Dead, like very right, that's a whole other thread of like how music and culture have been used to
engineer social change. And right, Esslayn, they had a bunch of guys, you know, teaching about psychedelics and and gystal psychology and cognitive behavioral therapy and all these things we hear about like the Overton Window or you know, what's what's his name, the Zimbardo Project, the Lucifer experiments, right, like there is a body of knowledge that is actually commensurate or tracks with magical applications, but it's it's now from a psychological, scientific, technocratic system.
And right, all of these things continue to compound.
But now we have technology and cybernetic applications who really control the environment of the human in a way that the human being human being becomes like a gpu of reality. And so we're general like we're being hijacked to create that future. And so a lot of this show ties into all of those bigger themes, and I mean it's
just so much information. You know, I'm probably not doing enough justice to it, but you know you almost have to like just read the threads or you know, like pull those individually and then back to Nean genesis.
Yeah.
I think that that is what the strength of the written threads is, Mark, is that you have a meta narrative to the threads, like they all interconnect and interweave, and the stories about how one series will depict like one side of metaphysics and while the other one maybe will preference a different side of the greater narrative you're
you're weaving. I think it's interesting though, to look at the inter relationship and like the commonality and using a genre property like anime, there's a lot more than you can do with it because of its it's animated, like you can do it colors and you can do I think the music is very understudied in the sense that like Nick and I have done a magic behind the MIC series, so shout out to that obviously, but you know, the Japanese music, especially of the time, and like how
it kind of interweaves subculturally, like breakcres. Very Japanese vapor wave has like a very Japanese sort of city pop aesthetic, Like a lot of this, like eighties Japanese music came really popular.
It was like a hipster trend for like a few years.
So you're seeing like this always is undercurrent that it exists, but you don't really hear very many people like discuss what it is, the translations, what they're talking about, and sort of the properties that it goes with, because there's a lot of this music goes along with anime.
So it's like the.
Sound literal soundtrack to this kind of visual magical journey that you watch. But then you're also like hearing almost different media property. But it's like you're it's like the association is like one to one. You're saying it's the same thing, but it's not quite the same thing. One is visual and one is audio.
Yeah, well that's a holistic, right, It's you're being in bed embedded whole thing. So I kind of talk about McClue in a little bit in the First Breath of Fire and how he was really big on in media study and so I you know, I would he's encourage people to check that out too, is like read some McClue in.
He talks about you know, the medium is.
The message, and I think that's really important to uh to deal with because, right, these are applications of magical forms of coercion through media. You're thing being initiated, you're being inundated, you're being spun around, and right, how do we how do we learn to swim through that environment?
Uh?
And that's mostly what my big project is. And you know, it's it's it's.
A lot of material and and you almost have to do it on your own or read it, you know, read.
These threads on your own.
Otherwise you know, we could just kind of topically cover it without maybe not necessarily getting to the meat of a lot of stuff.
Yeah, if you I will include the link for this this threat as well for people to look at if they want to. Was there anything else that you wanted to add to you know that I guess that show. I didn't know, like if you were kind of dumb with that or.
Yeah.
I mean you know at the end, they have the again the whole tree of life, but it's actually inverted.
The whole thing is just a just a giant ritual.
But now it's you know, otherwise I just kind of get in the weeds of like what all the individual symbology is. But my biggest, my biggest thing is like just pay attention to like what's being put out there. And it's definitely competent portrayals of magic, but it's just woven in a in a cult way and it's right in your face.
And in your opinion.
You're also saying you thought there was a lot of cabbalistic ideas in there, right, or like you could see the spheares being like played out.
Yeah, I mean it's it's literally there's a I've got a gift of it down there, like towards the end when they're you know, when instrumentality is being initiated, like there's a full blown tree of life like in the sky and right, it's always referencing like the Dead Sea Scrolls as like written by the aliens, and so like Nerve and Sail are like we've you know, we've consulted the Dead Sea squirrels and you're telling us more secrets and uh, and so like that's a that's an extra biblical,
non canonical, right, hidden script that talks about a.
Ton of capitalism and the cult stuff.
But yeah, you know, they all just blend together at this point, like you it's all out there and it's you know, it's pretty nuts.
Thank you. Was there anything you wanted to add.
Just for this series? I think Mark did a great job.
But I will say that the three kids, there are three separate stars of serious, So they're serious.
A, B and C.
And so you could say that the these three kids are like what Mark said, it's kind of like they're all the Aon's of Horus in a way. They're just distinct, maybe in their the vessel that they sort of think they are, but they're not really. They're all empty in their own way. So it's like the hero, the princess, and the dragon, and.
So it's interesting.
It's just it is interesting because the series is so deeply cubalistic, and it plays out many like multiple hero's journeys, not just it's not just like the normative like singular hero, the you know, the kind of good guy, every man hero. It's kind of like there's anti heroes and some of them are girls.
It's it.
It it allows the story to be like weird and malleable, but it takes you I guess what I'm trying to.
Say is that it is it's like a magic journey.
It's like taking you through the different ways that you yourself project into a character, because you're not every character, Like I don't watch a show and say, okay, I'm every character. No, but there's there's a character that you're going to identify with in that character undergoes a magic journey.
So I think that's the three characters in particular. So I think that's really interesting about this series in particular, and how they did release these two sort of follow up sequel films and it is kind of like they you have to watch the series multiple times and then maybe you could say you're like an adept or, like maybe an acolyte of the series and like understanding how they are relating the sephera and they are relating the metaphysical concepts.
But then the movies do it so it's much more subtle.
So you've like kind of built up an audience to the point where they're allowed to understand what the movie is really saying. Like you're able to sort of like remove the densities, remove the klipas of it, and then you can be like oh, I see what I see what the truth is if you want to even say that. So, yeah, there's something really crazy about this series, really dark and really interesting.
I think.
Yeah, right, when he mentioned the upside down tree, I wonder if, like when when you noticed the like kind of like the Kabbala play out in this series, did you have any notice like maybe a pattern or anything going.
To like exact specific correspondences.
Either that or like I was wondering if maybe it was manifesting down to the bottom. But I mean, you know, if you saw like a like a line kind of coming straight down.
Or oh yeah, definitely the angels, because the angels are like the fallen they're like the spheres that have fallen onto the grounds. You could think of it like that, Like they are like the Nepha, like I know, people don't I don't really like this word, but they're kind of like Nephilin.
In a way or like that.
Yeah, they're sort of clipolithic, but they're also of God. And so when they're defeated by the kids, like the three heroes at Hoad, but because they all are different kinds of heroes, they go in different directions on the paths. That's how you could understand it. It's like they're taking full expression into the tree. So they're climbing back up in the sense that trying to rectify the world, but
the angels are trying to well. One way to understand them is that they're just strawing at so theres the world through destruction.
Interesting is again it depends on how you want to look at the tree coming down. Coming down. I mean, obviously you have to become an angel before you come into matter, So I mean, are you're not. I mean, I guess what you're saying is you kind of going the wrong way even though you are an angel at that point, you're kind of falling down into matter and then going back up. I could see how you'd be passing that yourself in that way. It sounds weird, but.
Yeah, I almost say it's like the clip of Right, It's like they've inverted the tree of Knowledge so far that like now they're gonna it's almost like they're falling back up to Heaven. Right, It's it's a trip. And so both of these are like merged simultaneously. And I don't think there is necessarily a specific narrative like oh, it's going to be this one single thing. Right, there is a lot of deliberate ambiguity. It's almost like watching
Kubrick or again, you know Twin Peaks. You're this is all presented there in this general way, and it's not like this is exactly what it is. I don't think that's how it's meant to be presented. But these themes are there, and I think it's something that you would play with in any magic practice or like just in any analysis in general.
So yeah, you could change paradigms depending on like even your own understanding of the series. The more the better you want, or the more ocall to your understanding the like maybe your relationship with how the narrative flows is different. So yeah, there's definitely a context dependent.
That's the truth. All right.
Well, I guess there's nothing else that you guys want to add. I mean, unfortunately I haven't seen the series, so there's really not much I could add to it myself.
Yeah, I would just encourage you to watch the show and uh, you know, kind of pull the other threads because I think it would help contextualize a lot of the other material that I'm talking about, because it is just pretty broad. But you know, if you are interested, you going to read about mk ultrip stargate, you know, human potential movements and the history of Japan, and that's maybe a start.
You think the human potential movement, you know that stuff is like huge, actually like actually being done, and it's kind of being.
Yeah, well yeah, I think it's just a way of like, you know, it's now just advertising, right, It's again, it's just become so mainstream that it's it's lost the cachet. Oh, it's the human potential. It's like, now, how can I get more clicks? How can I create a spectacle that's going to drive more revenue to my website?
How am I going to get more engagement? Right?
And it's like how do we just nudge people and affect their attitudes? Right? And so it doesn't have to be sinister necessarily, and it doesn't even have to be coordinated. But I do think there are larger trends and and uh interests that are moving collectively and maybe even unintentionally. But these are things are changing us and we're living in that world right now. And by studying these things and learning about like the history of media and technology
and of like old biblical references. We can sort ourselves and orient ourselves in a way to maybe not lose our minds.
That's a plus, not lose on minds.
Yeah, yeah, if you want, you have you guys played your shows again, and I think we'll wrap it up here. I would be really interested in having a talk with you on Twin Peaks, since that's something I have watched.
Oh yeah, we could go really deep on it. Yeah.
I think all of the Lynch's movies tied directly into Twin Peaks. I think it's almost like one dream. Uh but yeah, that's that's a really long discussion, and i'd probably have to watch the show again just to brush up, because these things are so ambiguous and can go in so many different directions, and so it's not necessarily again, it's like, you know mccluan's thing. You know, it's not about the content, it's about the context and the medium itself and what is it doing to us.
You can watch that show again and be like, oh my god, I have a completely different take on that's a problem with that show too. Every time you watch it, there's something new and you're like, oh man, it just has we will confuse.
Then well shit, it's you know, it's like the Shining. You know, it's like people were you know, they made a documentary about the Shining like it was a room two thirty seven, Like what does it mean?
It's like a Jack's time.
I'm actually happy somebody on tomorrow for that documentary. Oh great Shining, Yeah rightily, I mean JJ advance often check it out.
Yeah yeah yeah yeah.
Uh so, all right, I'll let you guys plug your stuff. I'll go with Jin first. Jin, thank you so much for coming on.
Man.
I appreciate you bringing the guests of the show to the suggestion.
No thanks Nick, of course, of course.
Yeah.
Yeah, And let everybody know, like you know, where they can find you to on Twitter and your podcast and sure please.
Sure so people can find me at wucom Reborn to w uk O and g Reborn on Twitter and Instagram, at Threshold Saints and then Threshold Saints on Apple on Spotify. There's also a show account at Threshold Saints on x Twitter and obviously Mark Spennagast talked about very I would say parallel. This is like more of a continuation of our discussion of my breadth of Fire. I think it's really like a part too spiritual part two, but with with you Nick, so it's like it's a true reject episode.
So I appreciate that you set it up and let me kind of, you know, frame the parameters of it. And thank you, Mark. I really appreciate it. It's always a pleasure to talk to you and consider you like a sort of like.
Mad scientist media scholar.
I love it. I get a lot out of it. I see where you're going with it, and I'm down. So thank you, And.
All egend stuff will be in the bottom. And Mark, let everybody know where they can find you as well. Please anything you want to plun or the shows.
Uh yeah, the uh, you know, it's mostly the threads. You know, if somebody thought any of this was interesting, you can find me at Somolier s O Underscore, M M E L Underscore, I E R and uh. You know if you I have my most recent one on qrscuro and Gill Delouze uh and Henri Bergson, right, you can literally apply that whole thread to what we've been talking about. Yeah, hopefully you know some of this stuff is maybe not I didn't get too abstract or maybe two off the beaten path given it's more of a
cult focused show. But for me, these things I'll do tie together and I use a lot of my stuff that I learned studying, like Kabbala and magic literally just runs right into how I.
Engage with what's going on with the world. So appreciate you guys have me on. It's a lot of fun.
Hell yeah, yeah, you know, that was a good discussion. And no, I do agree that I do think like magic or occultism, or maybe people not understanding occultism, it's being used to accomplish other things right in our faces, you know what I'm saying. So I can understand, like how you would go with the whole psychology and how people are being manipulated.
Yeah, that's exactly what I think they're doing it for.
You know so well, And I would point to the Breath of Fire three because I definitively link cybernetics and all these military scientists to occultism.
Yes, huge, So you have to think about it.
Probably some of the you know, back in the day cultists were considered scientists and alchemists.
Yeah, yes, exactly. Nothing much has changed, so it's all chemical. Nothing has changed.
They just have different cover stories. For what they're working on and why Yeah.
Yeah, Well and everyone's just you know, clicking on their phones and you know, watching some singer and you know, trying to have fun pay attention to the stuff.
Yeah, yeah, they don't.
You know.
The thing is, it's just like even some of like understanding this, you'd have to look back, you know, thirty forty, fifty sixty years ago to even start like seeing this, I mean, or even alchemists or you know, cultists were considered scientists. You'd have to know about them like a thousand years ago. Unfortunately, that's just not the cool thing to be doing right now. So why would you ever start reading about stuff like yeah, well, you have to get it to an extent. Yeah, yeah, right, I mean
I do get it to an extent. I mean, but yeah, I get where you were going with that for sure, and I appreciate that angle. Yeah, everybody's links will be in the bottom. Jin the Ninja and mark his links that everything will be in the bottom if you want to check it out. Thank you again for both coming on. And that is the end of another Occult Rejects and until the next one, everybody be well Later.