You see, something's going to happen. What's going to happen?
I think?
What Welcome to the Occult Rejects. We've got a very very special episode tonight Friday Live Show, and I want it to be a good one. So I how to bring another role. I brought a gnostic onto the show. Everybody's favorite gnostic. You got Miguel Connor, also known as a on Bite. But before we introduced him, I'm going to introduce the other rejects. We got the occult, but we got the occult reject man scientist, Lisa, what is going on? How are you? Thank you very much for making this.
You're muted, You're muted?
And he did it again.
I was muted.
Okay, thank you for inviting me. I'm very interested to hear what you know but has to say, and I'm very very excited topics. So thank you for inviting me on. And hello to the fellow rechecks.
So thank you very much for joining us, Lisa. I appreciate it. And we got my man, Jules. What is going on? Sir? Thank you very much.
What's up, guys, It's good to be back after a couple of weeks. I'm Jules Host of the Great Pill Podcast. You find me on x at Great Pilled Pod, Rumble YouTube, all this place to go. Subscribe to me there. Patreon dot com says Great Pill Podcast. We're actually going live after this show watching twin Peaks. It's funny. We're doing a cult David Bowie tonight seeing he was in.
Fire Walk with me.
Very interesting because I think he wanted me in that movie. Anyway. Yeah, it's it's it's it's good to be here on a Friday night.
I hope everybody had a good week.
Y'all go ahead and like the stream, share it and uh, let's let's fucking go.
Oh yeah, thank you very much, Jules, I appreciate it. And my man Ethan Ethan indgo, he made it. What is going on? So please let everybody know what's up with you and your books.
Honored to be here.
If anyone missed Micgill's presentation on Elvis.
You gotta check it out. It was amazing. I know this is gonna be dope.
Yeah, I'm an author, I'm on all the social media, easy to find, and my book's most popular one, Geometry of Energy, easy to find as well.
So yeah, I'm stoke to be here with everyone.
Hell yeah, thank you, Ethan. I appreciate it. I'm glad you made it. My man and my boy Tyrone. What is going on, sir?
It was going on everybody. I appreciate it for being here. Nick, thank you so much. You know, it's always a pleasure of being here, an honor to be here.
I should say.
Everything you can find on me is on rebirth at the word dot com. Yes, definitely go and get Ethan's book. We got to finish out the discussion with him.
His books are great. I love his books.
I'm definitely promoting that every time. You can also find my book Journey through the Origins of History on Amazon.
I appreciate it to be here, and thank.
You of course, of course, sir and my man Tim Constantine. What is going on?
Sir?
From sixth Century Podcasts. Please let everybody know what is up?
Hey, Nick, what's up? I love everyone here tonight. Happy to do this. I love this concept for this show. I talked to somebody about a month ago about doing this and it fell through, so I'm excited to do it on here. This is great cult David Bowie Let's go Yeah. Sixth Century Podcast YouTube, Spotify, Apple, and Patreon and thanks again, Nick.
No, of course, I'm glad. I'm glad it worked out like that. It's pretty funny how it's like it canceled then then one day you just got an email of me inviting you to a show for You're like, what the fuck? Yeah, is magic fucking around? But uh now, before we introduced the guest, somebody already said it in the chat. They beat me to it. If you have not heard the Occult Elvis that Miguel did on the Occult Rejects, fucking check it out.
It was.
Honestly, it was probably one of my most fun and mind blowing shows. Like he literally had everybody like, go what the fuck? I didn't know Elvis was into that it was doing that, go check that out and check out the book. But tonight we got him on for another person. That is somebody that I'm sure all of us here have brought up at some point with the
occultism and with music, especially with me. I quote him a lot, which I'll probably throw in quotes and some random stuff about him as Miguel's going, but we are going to be talking about David Bowie, the occult David Bowie, So please Miguel, let everybody know what is up with you if they don't know who you are by now and where they can find all your amazing work.
I go bunk over munch. I had to do that. But yeah, we got some strange fascination here. Yeah, Miguel Connor, host of a bite gen X Wasteland and a host of am by Gnostic Radio. So that's really it, and should make the announcement that the book that I just wrote on David Bowie has been accepted by the publisher and official announcement here on ther Co Rechix. And of course don't get too excited. It will be out. It
will probably, I've talked to them. It will be out in about a year because we've really only just begun. I've got the draft. There's going to be a lot of editing, copy editing, type setting, yeah, you know, the whole process. But it's there, and it's a I think a cult David Bowie's all had, because it is tentatively entitled The Gnostic David Bowie, because I think that's like Elvis. I mean, David Bowie's occultism is so well known, but there's so much more. I think the world has missed,
and that's I think what this book will do. And I've shown it to again many people who are Bowie fans and occultists, and they've been blown away by it. And I don't know. I hope this is it, because as I told you, I told you guys, the the Elvis book was completely channeled or called. The voice came in my head, and when I was done with I was like, Okay, that's my fifteen minutes of fame as a biography to me, Yeah, yeah, I want to move on.
I just want to move on, Go work for Masade or you know, something respectable, move on with my life. And suddenly, as soon as yeah, yeah, I was done it with the book, another voice came and said, you forgot about Elvis two point oh. I was like, there's no Elvis two point oh. And I was like, oh my god, it's it's David Bowie. They're the same character. And I said, okay, let's go down this rabbit hole and boom, just everything opened up. So I'm gonna say,
I don't think there's an Elvis three point oh. Please let there not be an Elvis three point oh. Because these books train you and when you're these forces channel you. They take their pound or flesh, your mental health, your physical health, every your your life gets upturned. You turn down, you know, work, family, all that. It's it's a it's a brutal process. Rewarding but brutal.
I want to bang my head against the wall right in like forty pages of like slop, like imagine like I had to be like three hundred pages in a book. I feel like, fuck this. You know, so I give you credit, but man, that's it's impressive stuff to do that. Uh. Yeah, you know what's funny. I remember when you had said that you were done. Oh that was like, you know, you're fifteen minutes of fame. And then I think I had seen you start all of a sudden post like
not obsessively, but like a lot on David Bowie. And I was like, oh oh, and I think I even like saw you even started to make some announcement. They're saying something like I think it, and I was like, my man's going on with David Bowie. I can't wait to hear about this.
Yeah, I probably don't remember posting that stuff. Yeah, ago you talked about the divine and the divine madness, where the best thing you can do as a human is being invaded or possessed by some god, the Muses or Dionysus or Apollo, and that's you're possessed and something good happens to it. But again there's a toll.
Yeah, yeah, so I guess So what was it that? I mean, something popped into your head and it said David Bowie is the next one?
Yeah? Yeah, And I saw the parallels with Iam Elvis and they're just monumental. And there's several thesis that I have in the book. Again, one of them what you hear a lot about is Bowie was Bowie. He was a chameleon, he was innovative, and you know, you hear that shit all the time, but nobody ever says, well why you know? And I understand, you know, biographers are historians. Their job is not the why, but a lot of people don't even go there. Why was David Bowie David Bowie?
So there is a lot that happened from both the stars and his life that turned him into David Bowie. The other one, too, is how gnostic he was. As you start breaking down his life unconsciously and consciously, he really was moved and inspired by gnosticism. It's almost like it's the entire thrust of his message and his worldview and so forth, and we can break some of them down if you want. And the other thing, too, is also Saturn. I realized that both Bowie and Elvis really
were ruled by this being called Saturn. And in a way, Bowie told me David, I need to call him David. I wouldn't call him. I always call him by his first name. That he's still trapped in another dimension that he left. And of course I make the argument with Blackstar where he gave us this message of the world, his ideas, and how Saturn is really controlling things and he's still sort of stuck there and him we need to bring him back because his entire life is this
almost ritual, this mystery religion, gnostic ritual after ritual. It's more than his personas. These are actually rituals that he did that lasted for years. And yeah, I think those four things really reveal a brand new vision of Bowie, and nobody's ever really written a cult Bowie. There's The Tao of Bowie, which is a good book, but he focuses Edwards focuses more on his Eastern interests. And then there's a book coming out I think in January by
Peter Ormergard called which is Bowie's Quest for God. But it's more metaphysical, you know. I bring in the occult as UFO experiences his conspiracy theories. I try. I bring in I see the lenses through why Bowie was David was working in these things and what happened in his life, and I just throw everything in and this will be all in the book.
I forgot he wasn't to conspiracies. The interviews I saw like he did on TV and he would say like conspiratorial shit. I forgot there was something he was going on about, and I was like, oh wow, he was saying there like shit. People get famous on Instagram for saying that.
Yeah, yeah, that's for sure. And in some of it, of course, was when he was I mean most people know in the seventies, when you know, the cocaine started rotting his brain and he went off and started embracing Nazi occultism and saying things like, you know, England needs a figure like Hitler. And Hitler was history's first rock star and allegedly gave a Nazi salute before Elon Musk and all that. He gave a Nazi salute and got like just lambasted by the press, and he was, yeah,
he was. He was into some and of course the whole alien thing. He always thought aliens were there and they were controlling the world and he was completely out of control for a while and it happened.
Did he start Did he have a UFO magazine that he put out early on, like before the cocaine brain run.
Yeah, in the late sixties he was part of a magazine and he would do in London and his flat or in some building. He would sit there all night with a telescope with others looking for UFOs and he saw plenty of them over the skies. He had plenty experiences later on while he was touring and all that. And then there's the famous story where he he was doing an interview and this is in the eighties. I
think he was done with cocaine. But he like freezes and he looks out and he's like seeing something weird, and his nose just starts bleeding. And of course, if you read to a Whitley Strieber's communion when the visitors come, that's one of the signs is a nosebleed. So and there's more with you know him and extra terrestrials. They were like they were really part of his life.
Yeah. You seem to be the same with Elvis too, right.
Yeah, Yeah, Elvis had three encounter and was a huge UFO guy, reading up on the literature and all that. Yeah, both were obsessed with the whole extraterrestrial thing.
You know, there's a story I came across and you just jogged it in my memory.
I heard it on the podcast a long time ago, but it was is the story out of Detroit that Bowie was on tour and he was playing Detroit and Detroit was having a UFO wave at the moment he pulled in there.
So he did like basically what you said.
I guess he went out and got a telescope or he already had the telescope and they were they set it up in the limo and they used to they opened up the limo sun roof and they were looking for UFOs in the limo on the way out of Detroit.
Great, great story.
Yeah, and he would he would do that like traveling Minnesota and they, like Elvis, he had this thing about flying so he would drive or take boats or trains and all that. But he did that and that even during the show he was asking people, if you have any information on the UFO, let me know, let me no. Now. Of course, a few days later the government debunked it, but I'm sure there was more. I'm sure David was right and something had happened.
One thing I did when I mentioned before, we kind of got a little bit off of it. But you had mentioned cocaine, and I think even earlier you kind of mentioned like, oh, you know, like I guess, like David Bowie reinventing himself. People like, oh, it's just him like being silly or whatever. I feel like a lot of artists, the drugs just get thrown as an excuse for them actually rather being an intelligent or occultists. I think like when they do weird stuff, they're like, oh,
it must have been the heroine of the cocaine. You know, they party, so that's why they said that or did that. I think just that's a lot of times I think that unfortunately takes place for all the things. I just wanted to throw that in there. I think like even with David Bowie, I think it. Even when he did a station to station I mean that was a huge time when the I think he said, like he was basically doing coke canes year straight, so some crazy shit
like that. The whole album. There's some deeply a culted shit in that one. I mean he even mentions from Catherine to malcouth. So I mean, if you're gonna like look at that as like, oh, that just must be cocaine's like os is, you never gonna understand what the fuck he was saying.
Yeah, that's for sure. I mean he was He was never a drug guy in the sixties a spliff here, some acid there, and then in like the early seventies he and Angie were actually anti drugs, speak out publicly and the problems they were drinking and drugging, and they didn't do drugs. The problem is he got caught in that I need to work harder, so I'll do cocaine. So I'm going make morning. So, you know, because he was not just a star, but he was also a producer,
a media guy. You know, he was producing the actorg Pop. Yeah, he was producing Iggy Pop's albums. You know, he did Lou Reed's famous what Transformer album. I mean he was working around the so he started doing cocaine so he could stay up all night in the studio and tour. And eventually it just got it got the best of him. And he wasn't doing like the shit cocaine that all of us did when we were young. He was doing
the Keith Richards. It was this just perfect great cocaine where he just did a bump in for eight hours, he'd beat the loose, flying out, yeah, whatever it was. And eventually, yeah, he had a diet of Pepper's milk and cocaine. That was it. He was like a skeleton and he would appear in the Dick Cavage Show just talking about all these weird occult things and freaking people out and sniffing and all that. He was a complete disaster.
But somehow he kept putting out just amazing albums, like you said, Stas in the Station, Young Americans, Diamond Dogs. He was just part of him was still able to create great art and very occult art. But he also became obsessed with a cult like stories of him staying
in his La house. Yeah, that was the great story out of you know coke addicts think is like he got so paranoid, and he got into a magical battle with Jimmy Page and others, and he kept thinking lou Reed as the devil and witches were trying to get a semen or to create some moonchild, and he got so paranoid in New York, so very smartly, he moves from New York to the La Cocaine cold capital of
the United States, LA. And then it gets worse and he's, you know, when he's not doing music and stuff, he's just sitting in his house just like you know, watching Nazi documentaries and scrying kabalistic and a could sigils all over his house and driving around and casting spells. I
mean he was. And then there's a famous story where he thought that there was a demon, that Satan was at the bottom of his pool and he calls his wife, Angie, and Angie comes over and she's she Angie was basically an atheist, and she Angie was like, yes, there was this ink at the bottom, this evil thing moving around like some Lovecraftian.
Thing and terrifying.
Yeah, And Angie's like, well, should we call it? You know, a should we call like a priest? And I don't want any press about this, so Angie has to look up all these exorcism prayers and he and Angie do this exorcism prayer and this evil disappears from the bottom of the pool. So it's there's so much more. But yeah, his seventies were pretty wild.
Yeah, there's that.
Story you mentioned, like he was, I guess worried about which is getting his semen. And there's a story I read about that. I think it's in Angie's biography. I don't remember the name of the book. I've got a whole bunch of rock books over there, and it's in one of those rock books. But she she does like a hotel on that whole entire situation.
And he was on a he was on a bench.
In la and he called her because he thought he was being held captive by these warlocks. And they finally get him to go out and uh, they get him to go out into the street and get a cab and go to his new manager's house, and then they have to like lock him in a room or I think he even locked himself in a room because he was so paranoid. And Angie calls up the Rock Rider
for Circus magazine. Uh, Mollie and gives She's like she was like a go kind of a witch, right, so she gives them like some sort of a ritual dude to sort of break break him out of this bender.
It's wild, but that was but that was Angie's own words.
She said that, like, nobody knows if these Warlocks are really wanted to they wanted He said that they wanted to have a child with him, and like a spawn of Satan type of a situation.
So uh yeah, yeah, definitely, And that's in my book and other instances. Again, plenty of witnesses, whether whether it's Mick Jagger or John Lennon, ja saw Bowie just going completely insane, completely into this dark magic, into you know, Nazi occultism. He became obsessed with like Mourning of the Magicians by Lewis Powells and The Spear of Destiny by Trevor Raven's Court and all this sort of very dark literature at the time, and it just it consumed him.
And that's why he created his persona, the Thin White Duke, because this guy was just an evil fascist and that was the persona that gave us Station to Station and all that. It was.
Yeah, yeah, well was there anybody to him keeping your en in the refrigerator.
Yeah, yeah, I think we have eyewitnesses to that plenty, and toenails and nails too. Yeah. He was afraid that some witches would grab it and you know, create a clone out of him or use it for spells or something.
So it was yeah, that sounds crazy then, but now, I mean, you know, it's pretty believable.
Yeah.
Yeah, Italians believe that where you know, in the mafia. If you watch a lot of Mafia movies, the women they when they do it, the clipping of the fingernails and toenails, they usually collected and throw it away.
I don't know if anybody actually they burn them. Yeah.
Sopranos actually shows that in one of the episodes. Yeah, they burn them and get rid of them.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Hispanics time the same thing about hair yep, Spain yep.
So what I wanted to ask, uh, I don't know if you want to get into it too, bunch, but uh, I think for David Bowie when he first kind of started getting into that stuff, Like I could be wrong, but was he more of into like Tibetan Buddhism at first? That's what kind of like got him into.
World. Let's see what started David Bowie was being born where he was born. He was born in Brixton right after World War two, and that place was a dystopia. It was like, you know, unlike the United States, England came out of World War two as a fallen empire that was cooked, it was done, and it was like living in it was a dystopia. It was his ashes ruins, it was a food rationing, No electricity was barely on.
Kids had to play in bombshelters. And that's the world that David Bowie grew up and it really affected him. The other thing too was his mother, like Elvis's mother, had kind of a second sight, but she was also abusive like Elvis' mother, so it really crushed him. But she also taught him that he had special powers, telepathy powers, and he did. He had psychic powers, as I show in the book, whether he was doing tero or other things, he could he really could see through the veil of reality.
And he came from a family. I Elvis came from a family probably with some sort of magicians. He all same with David, but also schizophrenia. He had three ants. There were schizophrenic. One of them had a lobotomy. His brother who he loved, who really opened the world. His half brother who was older, Terry opened him to the world of alternative music and art and all that, also had schizophrenia. So like Elvis lost his twin brother Bot, David lost his big brother who was his idol to schizophrenia,
so that insanity was always chasing him. And as I write, he might have been all his personas was him either already schizophrenic, trying to deal with it, or running away from schizophrenia. It's like, if I change my ego, this disease that's getting my own family won't get to me. But I mean, things like sci fi really sparked him. But one of the main ones has to be when Terry opened him up to the beat writers. The one
David really liked was William Burrows. He loved William Burrows, he loved his mythology, his worldview, and in fact Burrows has just infused in all of his early albums like The Men Who Fell to Earth, Hunky Dory, Ziggy Stardus, and definitely Diamond Dogs, although Orwell is in Diamond Dogs too, but as many people know, Burrows himself was open about being a gnostic, and his worldview was very gnostic idea that were fallen by these terrible creatures that we've fallen asleep.
We got to wake up and all these things that Burrows had which had gnostic worldview, and David certainly adopted these for his albums. And Burrows was very hardcore because his gnosticism was kind of a Diy gnosticism, in other words, in classical gnosticism, or Philip K. Dick, which he and Bowie Dick and Bowie and David have a history or
a connection too, just as with David Lynch. But in Burrows thought in classicalism Philip K. Dick, yes, we are trapped by the Arkons and we're in this terrible nightmare, this fallen dystopian world. But there is Sophia or Jesus or Hermes trismic easters that comes to wake us up. With Burrows, there is none of that. They are no saviors. It's us against the Arkans. So it's a lot more hardcore, and you see that in David's music and a lot of his lyrics and all that. But and Burrows is
a lot more violent. Burrows believed you know, it's not about detaching and being mystic. It's about killing the servants of the Arkans. And we got to get into gangs, and the awaken people must go and just slaughter these these gangs, these horrible people who are trapped, who are servants of the Arkans. He called them the shits, and
they ask him, well, how do you know what's a shit? Well, because they're basically like Karens, people who are always in your business are trying to put mind parasites in your head. You believe, also Burrows, and that you have mind parasites, which is very gnostic. So Burrows really got him off spiritually.
And like you said, then in the sixties late sixties he started getting really serious about Tibetan Buddhism, which I argue in the book is Tibetan Buddhism and Gnosticism are kindred of their brothers, the idea of the illusionary world and inner revelation and trying to break open from things. And he was very serious. Like Elvis, he almost quit the music industry to become a monk. So you got Burrows, you got Tibetan Buddhism. Nietzsche too, really starts influencing him him.
But he liked the gnostic part of Nietzsche, the Death of God of Nietzsche, because he started thinking, oh, God is dead. We killed him and he started wondering, well, who's going to be God? And David would think, we will be the next God. So he had this idea of a potheosis of becoming divine beings, which was which
was really very gnostic. But the other one too, the big one, is really Stanley Kubrick's two thousand and one A Space Odyssey, because Bowie got took some ascid and he went to see the movie and it completely changed him. He became a very different person. And as Steven Snyder Recluse argues in his book Minotaur, Kubrick never had wanted two thousand and one to be a sci fi movie. It was actually an ascension ritual, a neoplatonic gnostic ascension ritual.
In fact, he told, you know, what's the name of the author God, the author of the book who wrote the book. Oh my god, I'm drawing a blank. But the author of the novel two thousand and one A Space Odyssey told him, this is not a sci fi movie. This is a magic spell. And of course Kubrick was very influenced by mystery religion and was into Campbell and
all that. So Bowie was able to catch also that this was a magic spell and that really influenced him to do Space Odyssey, which is a song about ascension and breaking open from the material world. So all those things really theologically and very gnostic, influenced Bowie to the late sixties and the seventies. And there's a lot more, but I'm getting carried away. Yeah, the end of Space Arthur C. Clark, Sorry, Arthur C. Clark. Yeah, that's it.
That's it.
That ending of that movie seems to depict some sort of a take on apatheosis.
It is, Yeah, And Steven Schneyder makes such a good argument and he puts it all there, and I agree. And again David, being very intuitive, also saw this between Burrows and Kubrick and Tibetan Buddhism, and even by the seventy he knew of Yung and he even mentions Yung and I think Aladdinsane Jung the Foreman, and before he has a song called shadow Man. So all these currents
really start influencing David. And then in the seventies, occultism kind of makes a comeback, right well, even before Crowley becomes very big again. You know, Crowley isn't Sergeant Pepper's Lonely Hearts Club. Then Cover, so is Yung, so is Burrows. But this starts the sort of hippie dippy new age goes away and more boiler played occultism comes in, and people like David and Jimmy Page anothers start embracing this more hardcore occultism, which also influences his music and his worldview.
We some of the well, I mean, I think it's David Bowie's music was different, but I guess even some of the bands around that time that I would say would be a little bit more openly with the occult even the music was a little bit harder. That was I kind of like when I feel like a kind of getting into harder rock from the Beatles. I mean, even though the Beatles was rocket whatever, But I just see.
A progression sole in it, you know, like more of these people that had more of their like you know, I guess you could say pieces of their soul and their art kind of not like you don't see that today, And on these these artists today are dog shit.
So I think some of the artists were working directly with William Burrows on a few occasions. I mean, I know you Too put him in a video and it was seen as this like very edgy, esoteric type of move for that band to do that.
But I think that other bands are working with Burrows.
So I'm wondering if like Bowie actually made contact with him.
He did, he did. He Burrows interviewed him for Rolling Stone I think seventy three, and of course, you know, David was just so happy and they had a very long chat and David talks about, you know, the how Ziggy's startist came. You know, again very gnostic, it's alien force that comes down on earth and so forth and all that. But yeah, it was a David was so happy to me to chat to his idol.
Speaking speaking of Burrows, one thing that just sparked right now, and we've talked before. Burrows attended the school for boys in Los Alamos down in New Mexico early on in life, and he was part of that Oppenheimer group of boys of schooled or whatever they were doing. And what's interesting is that when we look at that area nineteen forty seven is very symbolic everything from Roswell to the creation of Cia.
And you know, David was born that.
I was just about to say that. And what's interesting is that nine months prior, in nineteen forty six, we had the Babylon working somewhere down the road, and then we have Bowie being born in January of nineteen forty seven. So anyway, I thought that was kind of intrigued.
Did anybody else have any questions?
What about Kerorawuac? I know, Burroughs, Allen Ginsburg, Carawak, they seem to be in that circle together.
Yeah. Yeah, he really loved On the Road. That was probably one of his favorite novels growing up, for sure, but for a ken and he really liked Burroughs, or he liked Burrows again worldview, sci fi, gnostic reality, this nightmare world where we're trapped and whatever in Burroughs. I mean, as scholars, I've discovered, you know, the whole Mayan thing was really Burrows, the whole Ayahuasca thing was Burroughs. He was so so he was really ahead of the times
before McKenna and all those. Burrows was doing all of this stuff. Of course, he's he's a very complex and jaded individual, but he was certainly very innovative and ahead of the times.
Didn't you say earlier that you think that that you think that Bowie is in some kind of other dimension or something.
Yeah, that's what he told me. I mean, that's what I'm getting. I mean that's you guys. Yeah, yeah, you guys have seen the memes like and I remember feeling the same thing when Bowie, when David died in twenty sixteen with January tenth. I was like, it's part of me said, man, reality is going to go to shit. And now you see the memes like reality you just look up on Google. Reality has gone to shit since
David Bowie died. And I think it's true. I think, like Elvis, he was holding up part of our reality, our imagination, artistic soul and without a miscollapse. And it's like we need bring him back.
Yeah, it's very interesting that you say that, because, like I had brought up earlier, he was friends with Lynch and you know he went to him for a role in Firewalk with Me and he got the role of agent Philip Jefferies, which was one of the smallest roles in the movie, but had some of the biggest significance because you see his character in the Return. You don't see you don't see Bowie, but you see it's kind of like his voice maybe, but he basically ends up
being stuck in the Black Lodge and never escapes. Was that like some kind of revelation of the method of him saying, like, hey, guys, just so you know, I'm going here when I die or I don't know.
And even in Black Star. Black Star is a very Gnostic ritual that has the Fall and again I'm drawing from scholars which has the fall of Sophia and the demiurge and the fallen world. It's all there, symbolical and Lazar and Black Star, and I think he is confessing because a lot of times he has like a veil over his eyes, and the Gnostics used to call the Demiir's the blind god Samael and you know, appears in
the Kabbala. There's all these hints and it's almost like he's saying, not only my life, I didn't do the right thing totally, but I may be sold out, but now I'm trapped with Saturn. You know, there's all these hints from Lynch to Black Star. And again that's before I even did the research. That's what he told me.
Fascinating.
Miguel, you've done a really good job of finding these personal stories and getting some kind of verification from other people.
I noticed in your last book and this one as you've spoken, I wonder what were some of the more poignant personal stories that you might have found, whether in his youth maybe that influenced him more in his adulted in his fame.
God, there's so many I mean, because David live what twenty seven years more than Elvis, so there's so many anecdotes, and some of them are really funny and some of I mean. And he was such a rascal. I mean, his favorite concept was like, it's not stealing if I could make it better, because he was always ripping people off. He had no shame. I mean, there was like a story like, never show David your new boots because he will steal them. Wear them, Tell him he bought them,
and that it's a new style. He's like, he could care less. He was terrible at stealing, and he stole guitar players from other bands and all that is, you know, like Elvis, he was kind of a trickster figure. But anecdotes. The one that makes me laugh is, you guys have seen that video Ashes to Ashes right where he's on the beach with the clown and all that, and it
shows Major Tom and all that. But he's doing this video in the early eighties on the beach in England and he's got his clown outfit and that, and some old guy walks by with a dog and gets in the shot and the director's like, ah, cut, cut, and he says take five. Everybody rest because this old man is with his dog blocking the scene. And David sits down and of course lights a cigarette because he smoked like five packs a day. What was his famous line, I can ask for a cigarette in every language of
the world. And so he and the director goes to the old man. He goes, do you know who this is? And the old man looks at David Bowie looks up and then yes, I recognize him. That's a cunt in a clown suit. And David just starts laughing and he felt so humble because he's like, you know what, most of the world doesn't know who I am. I really am just a cunt in a clownsuit. I'm really nobody when it comes down, and I think, what's the other line? He said, I got it. I've changed so many times.
I think my original my original identity was an overweight Korean woman. So he has so many anecdotes and funny things. He could say.
One thing I did want to ask you about from your dating is I'm sure you looked into it. I don't know if it was for sure that he was a member or he practiced it. But was he was he influencing? Did he practice golden doing stuff?
He probably he did a lot of ceremonial magic, but he wasn't a member. It was all everything he did he did pretty much on his own. And he kind of winged it again, scrying stuff, doing rituals. It's hard to say. I know when it started with Jimmy Page. Jimmy Page came to his apartment. No, he went to Jimmy Page's apartment and he had his girlfriend at the time. I've a cherry and uh, Jimmy Page knocked down some wine and blamed the girlfriend of knocking down the wine,
and David got really pissed off. So he does this and Jimmy Page looks back, and David's like, oh my god, he's casting some spell on me. So they sit there locked gazes, was doing spells on each other for a long time, kind of like something out of Zoolander, you know,
like you know, doing that eyeballing each other. And then Jimmy Page leaves and David's like, he's going to cast a spell on me, and he rushes to the library or the bookstore and walks out with dozens of book on magic spells, and he's like reading and doing all these spells. He was convinced that Jimmy was going to try and destroy him, and again that was ding his cocaine day, so he was just it's probably very little he didn't try at the time.
That is funny.
Yeah, and he wasn't Zoolander, obviously, he was in the movie Zoolander. He was.
He was. He was one of the modeling uh, one of the.
Judges, one of the judges.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, that's hilarious.
Another thing I wanted to sorry, go ahead to him ahead.
I was just thinking about the Zoolander park.
I'll never forget what what Miguel just laid out, like those two pit pages at each other, like like they're about to have a wizard's men.
Like Hansol and Zoolander looking at each other. It was like that. It was insane. Yeah, I think it's darkest spell probably was giving us dancing in the streets with Mick Jagger. That was probably his darkest evil thing you did.
When it comes to like a lot of these uh you like when they say he reinvented himself or he has these different characters, do you think like sometimes those could be like expressions of him having like maybe a magical experience or some sort of ntainment and understanding of him just taking on his experience and expressing it.
Yeah, you say that again. I make the argument and I break down these mystery religion schools about purification and going down into hades and ascension, and I put him with David's life and how they change with each of his personas. But like I said, I think a lot of it, and it's been noted before, is like he was so afraid beyond you know, magic and archons and extraterrestrials and superhuman Nazi races getting him. He was afraid
he was going to go insane. And I think he felt if he switched his personality, he could be one step away from the schizophrenia that had devastated his family. Others have pointed out that when he started doing Tibetan Buddhism, which he was very serious and he talks about, you know, not just doing meditational but he could levitate and see beyond the veil. He was very passionate about his Tibetan
Buddhism and magic. But Buddhism taught him that, you know, if the selfs illusion, then why not have some fun with it because it's not real. And it was after that you could see him sort of changing. He decided, well, I'm not real, so I'm going to change my persona. There's no David Jones or David Bowie or Ziggy. These are just things. These are just images construct Yeah, we play that aren't real that might help us with our inner world.
It's just whatever mask we put on the stage.
Asked a movie I was thinking about Labyrinth, what significance is that? I mean, I know, it's very you know, as they talk about dark magic and all that. I mean, he's basically portraying who he is in a way, right, he's this dark magician.
Yeah. Yeah, in the cave. Yeah, somebody put Afraid of Americans. That was what eighties and nineties. He's very conscious about gnosticism, and he's telling people in interviews, I'm just interested in gnosticism and the God above God. And obviously a song Afraid of Americans is very gnostic. God is an American and it is this horrible being. But on a side note, but yeah, I think Labyrinth, that's where he again plays
the demiurge. He plays this being that uses the labyrinths and shifts time and wants to feed off of other beings and so forth. Obviously he didn't write the script, but he always had a way of appearing in movies that just fit him, now beyond Labyrinth in his package, which I don't know why he had to have that package, those tights. It's always so embarrassing because I show my kids the movie because I like it, except there's David
Bowie's package. But he always had a way of falling into the right movie at the right time, Like you were saying, David Lynch, fire Walk with Me, which if you look at Season three, Lynch's cosmology is also very gnostic, right, you know, these forces of Killer Bob and you know, and Fireman and Laura Palmer is a manifestation of Sofia in this world. But right right, you look at something like the Man who Felt who fell to Earth, which he did in the Earth what early mid seventies, and
that is an insanely gnostic tale. I mean it's then in the.
First episode of the Return, maybe the second or third, I'm pretty sure Dale is literally falling to Earth through space.
Yeah right, I was gonna bring I was going to bring that up. There's a few parts, yeah that I was gonna mention. And in season three when they show it looks like this like I don't know, some kind of control arm dropped this little ball and it's this black and white vision of Earth and it drops down and then like somebody show I forgot how who shows up? But it literally yeah, well that was in the season three. It was when it was when the toll Toll guy was with that.
In the White Lodge.
Yeah, that's called the White Lodge shows it because it didn't show the White Lodge for the first.
Two seasons, but then season three it shows it as this like celestial place.
Making these orbs and putting them in the tulpas and creating you know.
Yeah, that shows like the little image of Earth and it comes down. It's like the same thing.
Yeah, very gnostic cosmology. And even in fire Walk with Me, Yeah, David shoots out with electricity and it says who dreams the dreamer, And of course you see a lot of his lyrics. He talks about the coming race, which he's talking about the vril again, the electricity, the moving through powers with electricity. But going back to the Man Who Fell the Earth, that's just a retelling of the Gnostic Hymn of the Pearl if you've ever seen it, And that is a movie about somebody, this alien like we are,
comes down and gets trapped into Earth. You know, he gets seduced by television and other things. And then the Man who Fell to Earth, which is a very gnostic tale. And again it's almost like instinctally he would fall into these very gnostic movies. But somebody who had an awakening with the Man who Felt Earth is Philip K. Dick. Philip K. Dick went and watched it and was obsessed with it. He would go he would go over and over to see the movie. Philip K. Dick thought that
there was a hidden secret and something like that. And he was so inspired by the men who fell to Earth that he wrote Valas based on the man who felt Earth and as many no value as Philip K. Dick's Great Gnostic Opus. In fact, David Bowie appears in Vallas.
They change his name, but he's a rock star. So you have these strange connections with Kubrick and Bowie and David Lynch and so but even Ridley Scott, I mean David and really Scott worked on a commercial in the sixties, but then suddenly they start kind of appearing in his you know, David appears in The Hunger, which was directed by Ridley Scott's brother, and so forth. And David Bowie was the very influenced by Blade Runner and use some of it and some of his talks and so forth.
So there's this very, this fascinating web of Gnostic occultism with Scott and Lynch and Cubrick and David and all these other Philip K. Dick that just keeps going through the seventies, eighties and nineties. And I put it all, I put it all down. It's all there, so you can see it.
It's like they're all working together to make some like you a big project or something.
Rite Yeah, yeah, yeah face Rachel, Yeah, cosmic ritchel of our hopefully our apotheosis, our ascension out of this world that we're trapped in.
So you mentioned real and I was just wondering.
You said something about him getting sort of fascinated with the German Germany and the feast right it was did did Bowie have a stage where he got into Edward Buller Lighten and that late eighteen hundred gnostic occult Germany movement?
I think so. I don't think he admits it, but again you have to look at his lyrics when he says the coming Race and the song oh you pretty things about these aliens that come and said, ah, the human race sucks, We're in charge now, and he seems pretty happy about it, but he calls them the coming race. So yeah, I mean he was an avid reader like Elvis.
Most people don't know. I mean, he would read hundreds of books and occult books, Victorian mysticism, all that was really something that he just absorbed and would put on his lyrics and you have to see it, like in stas in the Station he mentions white stains and you might miss it but then you're wait a second. Crowley wrote a poem called white Stains or you know, he says, I am wearing Crowley's uniform. It's all over the place when you start reading his lyrics and seeing his albums in Toto.
I know we've brought up on the show. I think some of the ways he's described making some of his lyrics is very like kind of a cult in a way. He would write stuff and then cut it up. It's almost like a sigil. The way you do is sigil in the sense exactly.
Bingo. Yeah, a good point. That's a good point. Uh. Back into William Burrows and William Burrow's cosmology. Yeah, there's there's these arkhons, right, these beings that control us. Two of the most dangerous arcons are time and language. In fact, Alatinsane has a song called Time, and it's not like Pink Floyd kind of metaphoric and you know, poetic is like, there's this being called Time that wants to just feed on us. And he says Time the sniper in the brain.
He's bringing up mind parasites or with tiko, which he does in a lot of his albums, but Time is like this being that just wants to destroy it again. Krana's Saturn, whatever you want. But language too. Burrows always thought that language is what keep us from just being mere humans. It's a and strained, it's destroyed it. So Burrows felt you have to fool this arc and call language.
And Burrows came up with this idea of the cut up, where you just cut things up, you throw them together and something will come from your soul, from your unconscious which will make sense. And it works sometimes it didn't. And you know who else used to do it? People say, you know, Kubrick was a control for Kubrick loved the cut up technique. He did that for his movies and scripts.
He would just throw things together. That's why people say, how come there's so many mistakes and you know the shining because he really wasn't that much of a perfection. He just felt, I'm gonna do it over. I'm gonna throw it all together and something magic will come up. But David found when he started, when he realized that
Burrows was doing it, he started doing it too. A lot of Diamond Dogs and some of his a lot of his other albums in the seventies, maybe sixty percent of his album was just him throwing lyrics together and saying, this is what we're going to do. Later with the Berlin Trilogy, Brian Eno was also into the same thing, and they would just throw music and lyrics together and just say this is it. And when when in the nineties when he finally got his first like mac or something,
he would do that with his songs. He just put his music in the computer and just shuffle it up up and say, here's my music. So for yeah, for David also believed that the way to escape this world was to destroy language or find a new way to do language.
I think a lot of artists did that too, like use that Burrows cut out method. I think more artists and will ever know tapped into that in time period. Yeah, even in like yeah, the time period, and even in the nineties. I know some of the nineties grunge bands for doing that. For Bush and Pearl Jam absolutely uh STP.
And then you've got the later on, You've got that story about Rick Ruben Is System of a Down and they got hung up in like their biggest song writing it and he had them go pick up a book, a random book from the shelf and just open it up and whatever line jumped out at them, they they used the line and they created the bridge for the song and it's like their biggest song.
Wow.
Yeah, yeah, I think you know. Somebody in the chat. Yeah, Brian Eno called it the oblique card said, I'm just gonna say this because I enjoy pissing off fellow gen xers. But just remember that Pearl Pearl Jem is simply discount Stone Temple Pilots. So I'll say that right now, that's the piss people. Because I'm an STP guy, I think
they're the band. But you are right. And of course a lot of these grunge bands were influenced, not just by Neil Young, but David Bowie was really really big, and people forget that the genesis of grunge comes with that band Mother Love Bone, which the singer died, and then it broke up into uh these other bands like Pearl Jam and Uh Sam Soundgarden. You're right right, but Mother Lovebone was a glam rock band, just like you
know what I mean. It started out as what David Bowie did, glam rocker, and then it just shifted to this hard stuff just like glam rock. Most people probably don't. Glam rock evolved into punk that was their next step. So and then punk rock evolved into new wave and always like with Elvis Costello said, well, how did new wave come about? He said, well, the punk rockers finally learned how to play their instruments. That's a great you know,
you see that Blondie. When Blondie started in the clubs, it was like no, no, no, no, no no. And then Deborah Harry and all these people, why don't we tried playing some chords and then you know the music changed.
Yeah, Bowie wont your influence for all those all everybody, and I think it's because you couldn't put you couldn't put him.
In a box.
You know.
He was constantly reinventing his sound.
It's like you can anybody can go any musician alive today can go find an inspiration in a Bowie album and maybe create something nobody's ever heard.
All right, right, and just remember Bowie was either coked up or throwing stuff together or using instincts. I mean, he instinctually just knew how to get the right sound. He wasn't he might say, talented, He just had an amazing almost psychic power to know exactly where to be and what sound to use.
I wonder if you found that he made any relationships between his gnostic exploration and his UFO exploration.
That's a good question. Again. If he's under the William Burrow Stanley Kubrick rubric, then it's all there, right, Aliens and arans and you know that high weirdness where you know these guys Elvis and others could just throw and McKenna just throw all this stuff together, including science fiction, and create this mythology that worked for them in the seventies.
I think in the eighties and nineties when he calmed down and he got off cocaine, and then in the late eighties he actually started, he got off of alcohol completely, started going to a meetings and all that. He really got into Elaine Pagel's Gnostic Gospels and Harold Bloom, the great Yale professor who wasn't avowed Gnostic, and he was more into the inner light, make contact with something bigger
than you and bring out the light. He kind of he didn't he didn't like put the arcons away because again, I'm afraid of Americans, and a lot of his other albums talking about you know, dystopian landscape still was there, but it was more about kind of rise up and become divine and become kinder and direct experience with God. And there was a softer David Bowie gnosticism in the eighties and nineties and so forth.
David Bowie helped Trent Resident quit drugs.
He did, he did, Yeah, yeah, I mean, he's a big AA. And unfortunately he would go to A meetings every week in New York and people have told me that he would be in the meetings, but obviously what happens in AA stays in a so I can't get any good any good confessions, you know what I mean.
He was drawn off too, right, then he go to sober up. Him and Iggy Pop took off together and go sober up.
Right they tried, Yeah, they were When when in the After stationed the station in the late seventies, he Pop was really down in the dumps. He was in a mental hospital because he and finally crashed down and David they'd been friends for years and work together. David was the only person that came to visit him, and while he was touring, went out of his way went to the hospital. Of course, he slipped up some cocaine to
help him out and all that. But then when Iggy came out, they became like almost co sponsors in a way that they they got away from cocaine. They were still drinking a lot, but just drinking and touring. And when Iggy went on tour, David was part of his band. He would just play the keyboard in the back, just wanting to, you know, stay out of the limelight. And they really helped up. And then they went to Berlin together. They almost died a few times because they were just
kind of out of control. But yeah, David really started getting away from cocaine. He would do cocaine recreationally, but he mostly drank. He drank a lot, which is unfortunate. Unfortunately Iggy Pop's drug use, which you know, eventually David had to have an intervention in the seventies and Iggy got committed and all this other stuff. And even they say,
you know the song and let's stand China Girl. David only did it because he had co written it with Iggy Pop in the seventies for his album The Idiot. So he did it so that Iggy could have some money because again Iggy was down in the dumps again. So but they were always like they were really best friends, and they were really close, and they really supported each other whenever they could.
I don't know that story with him. I go aheads we.
Mail.
You mentioned several times in Mind Parasites. Was he a fan of Colin Wilson.
Well, that's a good question too, because that's a hard one to understand, but he seems to again in his lyrics mention Colin Wilson. Now, Colin Wilson was olbways very big in the fifties with the outsider and the occult. I mean, if you were a young guy or yeah,
you probably read Colin Wilson. And in his song Quicksand he talks about the mind is Quicksand, which is directly taking from Colin Wilson later and is if you look at David's one hundred favorite album, I mean books, which you can find on the internet, Colin Wilson does make the list, but I think it's still Burrows when it comes to mind Parasites, because again Burrows had the idea of the mind parasite, the centipedes that burrow in your brain.
Burrows was obsessed with alien centipedes. It's just it freaked him out and he thought there were these horrible creatures
that were ruling mankind. But there's a story that I put in the book, which Gary Lachmann has in his book Founding Mender of Blondie, which has when he was with Blondie, Bowie invited David invited him to a party in his New York apartment in nineteen eighty is seventy nine, and Gary Lockman shows up, and of course, because it's a celebration, Bowie is tooting some white stuff and suddenly David starts going Colin Wilson runs a coven of witches in Cornwall and this and that, and Gary, who also
was very much into Colin Wilson, says that's not true. He's just a researcher, a writer. He doesn't practice magic. And Gary's like, oh, he's thinking about this other guy that lives down the road who was doing that. So they get into an argument about it, and of course David looks as his bodyguards and it's you know, it just goes and the bodyguards go up to mister Bowie is tired, you are leaving now, and they just dump
Gary out of the the Apartment. But he was like, but yeah, I think, yeah, David probably knew and read Colin Wilson through periods of his life.
He seemed to be very Colin Wilson seemed to be very influenced by couch Ruff. I guess that's how you say his name, and you know, obviously a little raft in that he kind of capitalized on most of his books. So yeah, it was interesting how that makes an appearance in some of his lyrics. So I was just always curious.
Yeah, So he had a bo We had a fascination with nineteen eighty four, right, and tried to buy the rights of nineteen eighty four off of Orwell's Widow great story, right, and I think he wanted to do a concept album on it, which I which had that been made, that would have been incredible, right, But uh, Sonya Orwell would not selling the rights.
So she thought it was bizarre. It was bizarre, like the Simpsons doing Planet of the Apes musical. She probably was like, this is ridiculous. Oh you a Simpsons fan? Yeah, yeah, Olsen and some I haven't watched them in twenty years, but Olsen.
I'm a Sibsons fan. When you mentioned that everything I love The Simpsons. I watched that a lot. I just had to jump in and say that.
It's a great scene. But yeah, so she rejected it. But of course, you know, David was going to steal because he loves stealing from everybody. If he could help it, he decided, well, since she won't let me do it, I'm going to do it in Diamond Dogs, you know, songs like nineteen eighty four and Big Brother, and I'm going to combine this sort of Burrows and Orwell sort of ideas. And I think part of it there was
a Ziggy Startus musical that never got made. So the album, besides being cut Ups, is this throw of all these different ideas. But somehow the album's very cohesive. It really is a very scary and dark album about dystopia, mind control, and authoritarianism.
So yeah, he worked it in. He worked it in.
What's the other story too that I think it's funny is he tried once to steal Frank zapp as guitar wrist and the word was on the street. So David walks into a restaurant and there's Frank Zappa with his band and Frank Zappa goes, I know what you're trying to do, Colonel Tom. In other words, you know, David was known as Major Tom, so he's bringing him down to Colonel Tom and he had and David and Frank Zappa get into screaming match and they're almost going to
fight each other, and finally David leaves. He eventually steals his guitar player. But David gets in a limousine with his staff and very English says well, I thought that went really well, don't you you know, so English, so dry?
Which guitar playing did he grab him? Do you remember?
Oh god, it might have been Adrian Blue? Don't I think it was Adrian Blue that he was stealing.
I would assume this is all pre like Steve I playing with.
Zappa, right, yeah, yeah, this was late seventies around there.
I was gonna ask something I totally forgot the fuck? Uh, anybody have any questions or anything else?
In when it is, I go for it.
What What were one of the more remarkable UFO experiences that he had?
Well? I think yeah, we did cover them as far as I can tell. Again, he saw a lot of them. It was just part of his life. And uh, I think those were really it the ones we covered.
Do you think, like with his out of space stuff, do you think there's actually like cult symbolism behind that or is it more just at face value, like it's he's really just talking about like out of space and alien shit.
I think he saw it as outer space as star portals, like the Gnostics and the neoplaton is that outer space wasn't just planet to planet, but we could travel and break into these portals. And he was really smart because when he did Space Oddity as a novelty song to coincide with the moon landing, right, and it was a novelty song and then it got more famous. But he kind of got himself in the you know, in the
big leagues if he would. But he recognized that the astronaut trope or archetype was the new shaman for the West, because after you know, Space two thousand and one is Space Oddity and the moon landing and all that, the astronaut almost became like the shaman for the America and
the Britain the UK. I mean in the seventies more people would buy merchandise for that had astronauts and comic books or sports star It was like the again the shaman had come, the modern day shaman of traveling astronaut was seen as the greatest job and the hero of our country. And David, as always being so smart sort of a dop did that trope even though he was really talking about apotheosis and being a shaman and all that, and really used it in his music with the whole
space age. But again we're talking more of this sort of gnostic neoplatonic travel, astral travel to the star. It's like you like you see in Space Oddity. Some say Space Oddity is just a song about somebody becoming an enlightened, becoming completely detached from the material world and just sort of floating out into space. And you see that theme in trope so often throughout David's career. Of course. Yeah,
And of course when did that archetype too? When was the was the the ship that got destroyed in the air? Was it the one that, yeah, that blew up in the air. That was the end of the space age? You might say, I always thinking that was a ritual to close down our imagination.
Oh yeah, close out our thoughts of what's out there or exploring.
It right right, Because whether we went to the moon or all that. It doesn't matter. It's the idea, is the mythology, the symbolism behind them, that's what you know. That's what gets people excited and it makes us a cohesive culture and all that. And I think when the Challenger was destroyed, it sort of ended our our era of really looking at the stars and looking at the at the denizens of the stars and the portals and all that. So it seems to have come back recently.
I did want to go on to a song. Did anybody have any questions before I ask mine? Okay, is maybe your opinion or how much you want to talk about it? I don't know if it's a song that you talk about a lot with Blackstar h First of all, that's all. First of all, one thing I didn't want to ask. Did he know he was dying prior to that album?
Yeah? Yeah he had. He had already been suffering from liver cancer something that, as Tim said, why he had to be replaced by a kettle because he just he didn't have the energy to really go on Twin Peaks season three and he was turning a lot of things down. So yeah, he was. He'd already know he had cancer. He was really doing bad and he had a small hope he might survive. But yeah, he got everybody together.
He told us creducer Tony Visconte the truth and Black Star is just a death ritual, his last you know, ritual of many rituals, to say goodbye and make his confession to the world.
Yeah, that's why. I had heard some people say that, and they thought that that's like why some of these songs, in my opinion, are deeply a cult, because they thought, like, you know, he'd be a little bit more open about it, I guess because it was like there a fox given at this point, I already know I'm leaving, you know, Even some of the lyrics and some of the songs on that, I'm just like, pretty like, what the fuck did you just say to some pretty funny shit With
Black Star, there's just you know, And I might be taking this too far out there, because I do look at the cult symbolism sometimes differently, But like with the first, especially the first, the second one might be a little
bit of a stretch with my imagination. But in the first, the first thing he says in the Villa of the Ormond or whatever, you wouldn't pronounced that stands a solitary candle in the center of the center of it all, in the center of it all your eyes and Pedicles goes on a lot about aphrodite being this flame like literally in the back of your eye, and that always makes me think about that since I came across that, does that like ring like anything to you? Or does that sound too far out? There?
Was?
He influenced my impedicles.
As far as I know, But I think the symbolism is right. Yeah, I break it down through various researchers and scholars. I mean, you see the dead astronaut with the jewels, and you wonder, is this major Tom who
has finally failed, who didn't make it? And then this girl with the tail takes the head of the astronaut to this village and there's this ritual, and you have the three scarecrows, and of course David then plays sort of this horrible preacher with the black star, which has many symbolisms that I break down, but Saturn is certainly
one of them. I think that's the one, and he basically making this confession, and then you have this ritual with these women and one woman is the center of it, and she escapes, and she is a Sophia figure that escapes, and she's played by the same actress who's in Lazarus, where David plays this demiurg figure. You know, if he's got the both videos, he's got a cloth which symbolizes
the blind god of the Gnostics. So you have this him admitting that he's Saturn and him confessing to it, and he's this oppressive preacher and there's Sophia trying to heal things. But at the end, I think he knew that somehow Saturn had gotten the best of him. Because both videos are very, very dark. They do not have happy endings, and they're very confessional about what he's doing. You know, I am not this, I have failed at
this and other things. So it stark stuff what he does to exit his life, you know what I mean. It's not like, oh, he was a nice father in this and that and I love my life is pretty intense.
You know.
Marilyn Manson put out an album called Mechanical Animals, and I heard him say that he was influenced by cocaine and David Bowie to do that whole record, and and there's actually some very bosque songs on there. A lot of a lot of spacey stuff on there, and he's one of the songs on there. He has that line that says dead astronaut in space.
It's clearly a Bowie reference.
So I think that whole Mechanical Animals album, which you know that's I mean, it's probably one of Marilyn Manson's best albums is a nod more than a nod to Bowie.
Yeah, I mean I haven't heard it so, but.
Yeah, you'll hear it if you ever listen to it, you'll hear the influence for sure.
I'm pretty sure he was in a band with Johnny Depp, right talking about Marilyn Manson.
Oh, I don't know, man, I'm.
Pretty sure he was in a band with Depp.
Oh yeah, I've heard that. Yeah, friends or whatever.
Yeah, I did read that that Johnny Depp gave Marilyn Manson a house.
Wow.
Yeah, yeah, m.
I just looked it up.
Yeah, Mariland Manson and Johnny were in a band again, figure.
Because they were in a band with Damian Eccles.
They were part of an alternative rock band called p which included Gibby Haynes, Flee and Steve Jones. They performed together at the fourth annual Revolver Golden Gods Awards.
I knew it. I knew he was in a band with depth.
Yeah, I'm gonta give you a cookie later on Jewels and I'm just, hey, you know, send it via PayPal because I didn't know that. Bro, I'm glad you said that, because I didn't know that. It's actually interesting something.
Look that means you.
That means you know that he knows some secret ship too. That that Marilynd Manson probably said. He probably just ain't saying it right now. He probably already knew that he.
Was he was going to do some psychotic ship like that. Anything else about Black Slaw you wanted to mention, Miguel, No, it's kind of I mean, I don't want to wait too much because you want people.
To write in the book. I have all the scenes broken down and the symbolism, so it's not it's almost like if we talk about it. Yeah, you have to look at each scene and each symbol, and you know there's a black Sun, which of course is Saturn in this world, and there's all these little symbols in both Lazarus and Black Star that you really need to see it as a visual it'll it'll I put it all together and it'll make sense. It's again a gnostic ritual.
It's Saturn winning the day, and it's hopefully the book. People will know what we have to do to help David come back and hopefully have the Star unfix our reality that has just been falling apart since twenty sixteen.
If you had noticed, our souls have to go back to the the rings of Saturn and then maybe we can grab him on the way through.
Exactly exactly because in Kubrick's movie at the end they appear in Jupiter. Bowman appears on Jupiter, but that's in the book. It's actually Saturn. And Kubrick was like, well, I can't afford special effects for Saturn, so we're gonna make a Jupiter. And you wonder was Kubrick hiding Saturn too, But yeah, at the end of the movie you end up trapped in Saturn.
Saund's gonna get you in one way or an all.
I think he had that the book, the Egyptian Book of the Dead. Bowie owned that book as well. I remember hearing that.
Interesting.
I'd like to see us. I'd love to see his full library, you know, see what was in there.
Yeah, you can go again, go online and just type it in David Bowie's hundred favorite books, and it's it's vast. He's got a lot. But he was again, you know, like I said in the last show, Elvis would have a worker's coming with two hundred books on the occult wherever he traveled. But David Bowie was the same. He had like this traveling library, and like Elvis, doesn't matter if he was drugged up, sober on vacation, he was always reading. He was just a relentless reader like Elvis.
Did you catch his smiley face symbol on his on his stuff? Yeah, yeah, yeah, I find that interesting seeing that in the I called it an eclipse, people called it black so sad, and those two like around the same time. I found that very interesting.
Must be a nod to his son. Did is actually a Hollywood director did what's the name of the movie?
Moon?
And God? What are they? I think I forgot the name of the movies. Two very gnostic movies, you guys got I'm drawing a blank here, But he did two very sci fi movies, and one of them I think it's called moon where there's these symbols on there too.
Anybody have any questions or anything, anything that they wanted to add, All right, I guess we'll wrap it up.
I have some research that I have to do now.
Yoh mi go. Thank you very much. That was really awesome.
Yeah, that was awesome, man.
Yeah.
Anything that I wanted to add was I got out, and any questions I had was pretty much got off already, So thank you.
Yeah, it's just it's just a fraction.
I mean, I'm sure.
I'm sure Kristin, Carl Jung and other figures that again were part of it. Some of his supernatural, other mystic events, you know, some of his psychic abilities. There's just so much more that you'll find. And of course there's a lot of I mean, it was a hard thing about research because there was also a lot of boring stuff. You know, he does settle down, he does give us lead stance, which is hard to underg know is Phil Collins, Stevie Winwood era, which is hard to hard to research.
And you know all that. There's a lot of peaks and valleys.
Yeah, all right, before we wrap it up, we'll let everybody plug their stuff again real quick. Lisa. Yeah, cool to reject a man sciences. Thank you very much for joining us. I appreciate it tonight, would like to uh say anything, I'll plug anything.
Thank you for inviting me, Miguel. That was amazing. As usual, I missed your Elvis one, but I caught the replay and it was fantastic. This was just amazing. Thank you so much for this, and thank you Phillow Rejects for the great discussion, and thank you for the invitation.
Of course, thank you for joining us and my man Jules was going on.
Sir again, Nick, thank you for having me, Lisa, Ethan Tyrone, Tim was good seeing you guys. Miguel, it was nice to meet you, brother. It was a great presentation. Would like to join you again on another episode for something. I'm sure I need to catch that Occult Elvis episode. I think I remember when y'all did it.
Yeah, I should have been here for that.
But guys, if you remember on Patreon you can catch me.
We're going to.
Start up there in about forty minutes streaming twin peaks. Yeah, and got some shows I'm probably gonna be doing tomorrow. I think we have a show tomorrow, The Occult Rejects has a show.
Esoteric book review.
In the morning.
I think, Nick, maybe there.
I think we're doing the adepts in the Western esoteric tradition again, super stoked, super stoked. And then I'm going on with grey horned Pagans later on in the day tomorrow, So I'll keep everybody updated. But yeah, y'all follow me on X that great pill pod, YouTube, rumble app podcast, Spotify, all that good stuff.
Thanks Agett, Nick, No, of course, thank you very much, real quick. I forgot to mention these at the beginning too. I got free stickers if anybody's interested. And we got shirts oh yeah yeah. Wrapping the shirt, oh yeah, thank you very much.
I get some more.
Believe it or notough for people if they can see that shirt, that is all symbolism for the eyeball on the brain. It's all about the eyeballs in the brain in that image. No people probably even get that at all.
So yeah, I have to.
Explain it to my wife. Yeah, I'll explain it to you tomorrow on the show if you want. Whatever Ethan is going on, so please let everybody know what's up.
Epic to be with you guys.
As always, Miguel thanks for all the insights and amazing ideas and yeah things to research, and thanks for your.
Show and all your books, both of them are epic.
And yeah, I'm easy to find on social media and and right, not too infrequently anyway, So yeah, peace to everyone.
Thank you very much. Man. I appreciate it. And my man, what's going on to.
It?
Did the same thing to me too. I hit the unut but and it immuted me right back home.
That was weird.
But yeah, I appreciate this conversation, this information and knowledge that you shared with me.
It was awesome.
I know everybody on the panel enjoyed it. I mean we were, I mean we couldn't take our eyes off this information. I took a lot of notes, so I really do appreciate that I had. Actually, I had a lot of people who was hitting me up from my side of the channel saying, hey, you on there with Miguel con and they was just loving it.
So yeah, you out there.
You you definitely Everything you can find, yeah, right, everything you can find on me is on my website, Rebirth of theWord dot com. I love history, I love sharing what I've learned, and I wrote a book, Journey through the origins of history that pertains to all that, so I appreciate it.
Thank you so.
Much, of course, thank you, and Lesada. At least we got Tim concertain what is up.
Thank you, Miguel. Great research. Everybody go pick up that book. Thanks to the other rejects. Happy to see all you guys. Thanks Nick. My show is sixth Century Podcasts. You can find me on YouTube, Spotify, Apple, Patreon and Instagram. And always great to be here.
Thanks again, of course, thank you for joining us. Appreciate it. And Miguel, please let everybody know what's up. And you already got people asking where can they find your book?
So yeah, well the usual suspects for the book, including the audiobook, Amazon, Barnes and Noble, Inn traditions. Yeah, col Elvis is out. And again the David Bowie book we're looking at next year. It's entitled tentatively The Gnostic David Bowie or The Gnostick Life of David Bowie, but we'll see what it ends up being, but look out for it in twenty twenty six. Yeah, and I really appreciate
you having me. I know it's a slow news cycle, so you probably are like, no big deal having me on but I just I just.
I was like really excited for this. You know, I want to plug real quick inter traditions. You know, they they do actually if people are into that type of stuff, like this type of stuff or a cult. They do have a lot of you know, they have a lot of authors on there that I have even had on the show. I can pretty much go on the website. If there's somebody on there, I can email the lady and they'll try to put me in touch with them,
Like I'm pretty cool with them. So you know, Miguel is on there, and there was a lot of other authors, Like if you want to go on that site, they'd be like, god, damn, he's serious. A lot of the authors, Yeah, had is on this website, so go check it out. And his book is on there, so check it out.
For surely do a lot of great work. I think somebody in it that. Yeah, we created a gnostic taro. I think it's a new feature. My wife has been doing terror readings for decades personal now we offer them online and she uses the Gnostic Taro and she gives you a very different journey, very Bowie journey. If anybody's interested, So go to the God above good dot com for that.
But then I have my sort of vanilla website, Miguel Connor dot com, which has the Elvis stuff and other things, and eventually the David Bowie book will be there.
Hell yeah, keep it. Eye off of that David Bowie book. Uh yeah. Thank you everybody who came on the show to join us. I had a really good time. It was an awesome Friday night. It was a great topic. And again, Miguel, that was awesome. And if people haven't heard the old Elvis please go back and check it out. That one was a banger. Thank everybody for in the chat. That's what's up. There's a lot of people there from the beginning to the end. I love it. Until the next one. Everybody be well later