Nick with The Eh-soteric Archives

You see, somethings are going to happen. What's gonna happen?

What?

All right? All right, Welcome back everybody to another episode of The Aesoteric Archives. Happy Happy New Year to everyone out there. The holidays treated everyone well. Yeah, back with a super special guest again. Uh we got Nick from The Occult Rejects, one of my favorite podcasts here, so really really lucky to have them on.

And yeah, I'll.

Toss it over to Nick for for a quick intro and uh, we'll get the get the show on the road. Thank you very much for having me on. I appreciate it. And that's also that you listen to the show.

That's great that that's like, well, you have just been so many shows that have had me on that I don't even know, like what the fuck it's about.

So it's great to actually have somebody who listens to the show.

So I really, I really appreciate really that you take the time out to listen to her stuff.

I know it can be a lot, so I appreciate it. Yeah for sure, for sure. Oh yeah, and I guess to find the show.

The Occult Rejects is on old major podcasts and bit Shoot Rumble and YouTube awesome.

Awesome, Yeah, everyone go go give give a follow, a, like a subscribe, all that good stuff.

Yeah, we we wanted to have you on.

So, I mean the you know, the title of our podcast is the Aesoteric Archives.

So is the age off of like kindada like a don't you like?

Yeah? Yeah, and also makes us a little harder to search, So.

You know, I didn't really think that, but you really got to be looking to find you guys, right, yeah, yeah, yeah, it's yeah, that's a commitment to the to the show.

But but yeah, no, so I mean, like the you know, the the theme of our show is kind of just the sort of a halt and esoteric, you know, underlying persona that Canada has that kind of flies under the radar a lot of the time, you know, So we've actually been meaning to have have someone on that understands that that world a little more and who's had some involvement in magic and uh and these uh, these different

I would still consider myself now, I guess like a magician or an occultist at least.

Uh.

I still do study.

I'm big into like a uh Cabbala deimatria, planetary stuff, really big into physiology, stuff with the eyes in the brain and the nerve and nervous system.

I was big into you know.

I was a member of the Oto, which was a it was an order that was originally formed by Masons that eventually they handed it over to Crowley after they read his Book of the Law, and then he changed the order. He knocked out like you know, a bunch of the initiations, brought it down to thirteen and kind of based the order on the Book of the Law. Well Dinton kind of did base the order of the Book of the Law, and basically, you know, take took it over and ran it.

I was in that for a while, you know, I minute probably.

About six six seven years, maybe five six years, went through a few initiations.

You had that experience, you know.

I guess in the beginning, you know, as a kid, I was interested in I guess paranormal on UFO stuff. So I guess that somehow probably led me to where I got, but believe it in our conspiracies was what led me to the occult. So eventually, uh yeah, I mean, I know that's kind of like real quick saying a lot, but yeah, I was a member of the OTO for a while. I was into ceremonial magic.

Uh you know two rituals lesser banishing ritual of the pentagram, hexagram invoking stuff.

Uh, you know, I have the whole set up and everything on the altar. I may i'd meet talisman's invoked, you know, God's, Goddess's angels. I never really fucked with demons, but you know, so I do have all that experience and still cover it now. You know, the part of the show is pretty much to help I guess, decode or demystify the occult. I did spend a decent amount of time when I first started the show, I guess pointing at the negativities of.

It or like like put it this way.

When I left the OTO and started paying attention to I guess the world around me again instead of just worrying about studying the occult and magic, and you know, started watching the TV again and putting on the news, I was like, Yo, this ship's fucking all.

In our face, you know, so like I guess.

When I first started, the show is more or less bean like, Yo, Like the fucking world really is run by this ship, and uh, you know now it's more of kind of gone over into like I think I've done enough of that, and there's so many other podcasts that do that anyway, Like the fuck do I need to repeat the shit everybody else is talking about? I try to, you know, look at the positive side, because my experience in practicing magic for myself has been a

It's just.

I think it will be different than most people ever

And I do actually think.

This might sound like a little scary, a little freaky, or you know, I'm not trying to be like an edgeloid, but I do think, you know, they always talk about a death and a rebirth. My opinion, you are going to have to actually be technically okay with kind of dying, believe in that to have a magical experience. So I do actually think that like death is a part of it,

It's because you're not looking at it from the aspect of death being involved, or death already happening, or the person having this experience outside of their body. But I do think part of the mysteries and mysteries and secrets of secrets is that you will have to kind of.

Click out the experience.

The physical experience that you feel when this is happening, in the visions that you see when this is happening is.

All over the place as well.

M's my opinion, because there are some there are some things I'm not saying that everybody does, but there's certain things that I think people do share. Like there's certain symbolism I use from my experience that I know other people have noticed it because they've.

Seen the same thing, right, you know.

It's almost like a way of putting a calling card out there and saying like, you know, if you see this, obviously you're in the know, right you know.

So that's you know, it's been my experience.

So I do think it's scarier, weirdest sounds, the visions, and the feelings that you have from dying is huge also within symbolism and art and vehicle.

Yeah, that's I mean, that's that's a really interesting point to make. So I when I actually, yeah, well so.

Am I gonna understand what's on the other side, and was like, oh there, well exactly.

Yeah. Yeah. And if you know, from my personal experience, when I kind of started diving into what all this was was when I was my dad was in hospice and I was spending a lot of time in hospice, like all day, every day for four or five months. It was so it was, you know, I was surrounded by death. You could feel it that you could feel the energy of it. You could feel almost like I it was weird. I could know when someone had passed in a room that was near him, like and I'd

And it hasn't been wrong yet. It's been like actorate, like almost one hundred times in a row, I've seen that the cat will go sit with the person and basically now it's like every time they do that, they.

Know the Unfortunately, they know the person's going to be about to die.

Yeah, and wow, cats are supposed to have one foot in, one foot out, are they not?

I believe that Yeah?

Yeah, yeah, I definitely believe that there was things that happened with my cat just from magic fucking around with magic that my cat saw shit that wasn't there that I didn't see because it was reacting and actually looking at things. It's hard to explain if we get into it later, but yeah, my cat definitely understood it, So something was going on. Yeah, to use it as a barometer, you know, like maybe I should be freaked out. Maybe

You haven't a magical experience himself, hope. So I wanted to.

I want to get back into the death thing because I have a few questions around that and sort of how that plays into like ritual and and and initiation

But I do think sometimes I would even say sometimes it's sort of thing like I was saying, just like a calling car to even like let you know, like who's behind this? You know, if you've seen thirty three a lot, it might be Masonic. If youve seen ninety three a lot, it might be the leaming uh symbolism. I do believe certain sigils and some stuff hold powods where I do think it could maybe start triggering stuff in your head. But I mean, just to even get

I mean, just think about this.

If we were to watch one of all, like an old classic horror movie without music, tell me how scary, we'd actually probably yeah, no affair.

Enough music that fucking gets us before it happens.

You know, if you watch a Jason or Fredni movie without the fucking music, you probably be laughing at it, really, you know.

Yeah, yeah for sure.

So between just sound and colors, you can manipulate people a lot with that already. But I do think that is huge. I actually think that, huh. I think a lot of magic nowadays. When I say this, it's not like I'm trying to get political. It's more just the way I actually will say certain styles of magic is Nazis. It's Nazi magic. I just call it Nazi magic because

With sounds and vision.

It sounds, yeah, sound sound and sound insight, and I think a lot of that is what's going on, Like, especially during like the last couple of we have a lot of propaganda out there, and if you start to realize some people maybe you guys don't.

Know how conspiratorlial are.

You'll see sometimes that like the news does it in even conspiracy. I hate to say, it's probably worse in the conspiracy community with the propaganda where it's like we take things and kind of put it on a different spin and don't really like, all right, put it this way. Perfect example, and I'm not really a fan of the other one of them. Let's say, if you took Proud Boys and Antifa. Yeah, now, if you were to watch it on Fox, you're gonna see Antifa throwing the first punch.

Throwing the first punch.

Yeah.

Yeah, it's a spin. Another perfect ex sample with the Ukraine War. This is a perfect example of Nazi magic.

In my opinion.

The Azoff battalion. They fucking throw the Nazi I mean they have the swasticker on their shit. They used they used the nineteenth Division Panzer signed as well on their stuff. When that war broke out and surf first started popping off, you have people showing all this footage of what's going on.

If you were to look real, you know, most people don't pay attention.

It's sometimes it's on the video itself, in fine print or even underneath who it's provided by.

Almost everything that was given to us was from the Azoff battalion.

So now you're telling me that I'm supposed to believe what fucking Nazis are showing me is going on over it. Yeah, they've got their own PR department. I won't even I can't even I can't even say that that's truthful. I have no idea you're having occult showing me what do you want me to believe is going on over there? I believe stuff like that where I think they will manipulate news and media, they'll put certain spins on it. What you're looking at maybe real, but not the context

World War Two, that one side versus another, like you're either on one side or this.

And that's saying Hitler didn't do anything.

I'm not saying he didn't do anything, but like I do think like they definitely used shit to really stir fucking feelings and fear into people. Oh one hundred yeah, I mean they use yeah prior to that, if you want to believe it, I mean I I I'm very skeptical about it because I'm like, all right, so if it's really that dangerous, we'll just build the cameras out of whatever it's built out of.

But like they filmed the atomic bomb and televised it, I don't know how you filmed it.

Yeah yeah, yeah, like televised that ship that ripped fear in people's fucking Where we can do that. I don't even know if they was sound for that. There was a vision for it though, and that freaked well the fuck is out?

Oh yeah, Like the mushroom cloud is like, oh, it's like a symbol of destruction war yeah yeah, well yeah, even you know, you were talking colors and music and stuff, so I was. The last interview he did was with

But that's putting my down in your resume. Y, I did this fucking Ukraine warup and on seeing it?

Yeah, yeah, so I mean, yeah, you're one hundred percent right, you know what would be interesting to see.

And I've seen it come out recently and I think I might want to cover it too, or or just I don't know.

It was kind of contemplating it.

The amount of newscase is I think in the seventies and eighties that we have have all been pretty much like actually like come out and been dropped as being ci ag Yeah. I mean a lot of their funding comes from from that world, right, Like, I mean a

And in Canada they're all funded by the government. Yeah, because all all media here is funded by the government.

All roads lead to Rome. Yeah yeah, but yeah, I mean it's it's that's to me, is is kind of crazy that but but again it plays back into that, like so these are dark magic practitioners in your opinion, that are running all this on the other side.

Yeah.

But the thing is when I'll actually say what I think is probably more of it, And again I'm that.

I do think a lot of shit that we're showing is possibly fake.

I think all you really have to do and this is something that I think from having the experience of crossing the abyss. My opinion, anybody that I for myself or anybody that I think has actually done that, you have to do like almost like a serial serious inventory in like how your mind works, and you do it like a lake old shadow work, or you do like

We're real.

Look with that spurred the fuck off right Edgargre walking down the street with b ONLM basically yeah, fucking insane. Yeah, So if that didn't really happen, you know what I'm saying, or if that I mean, I just find it so fuck away.

Your guy's got his hand in his pocket instead of his knee.

Technically that was his shint I think on his neck, which is you know, that's a Hebrew word on a fucking tarot card.

You know, who knows what was just my opinion that wasn't.

Real, you know, it spurred off all this shit, you know, or even if it was real, it was pushed to a certain way to get people to react, to get some sort of emotions going. And a lot of times I think that's what magic is, believe it or not, a lot of times it's what do you think you might be seeing that might be quite horrible is actually probably just AI or special effects or twisting something at the truth and getting people to believe that that's what

Yeah, I was just going to say that, or that that the woman on the subway who got a tack from behind as well, that one seemed really weird to me. Yeah, and it was out of time where they wanted everyone bashing heads, right, It felt off.

Yeah. I would even say a lot of stuff on social media that I think stirs up hate and gets people to like really get like my side versus your side. I think you have a lot of that out there is actually literally produced just to stir feelings, and isn't it's kind of like scripted yeah yeah, theater, Yeah yeah yeah.

Propaganda. I think a lot of memes that we had going on.

I don't know how you guys feel, but like cute on and all that shit, I think that all that shit was all propaganda to fuck us in the.

As I agree, yeah yeah, and that's all those memes.

A lot of stuff that were I probably shared myself was probably literally made by some fucking had off neck beard in a basement.

He doesn't even realize. I think he's got on someone want some job, or just make dumb memes, some political shit out.

Yeah you know what I'm saying.

Yeah, yeah, no, for sure, man. I think, uh, well, it's interesting how it's change because like obviously, like the way it's approached in in America is different than it is in in Canada. Right, Like even the way the news is produced, you guys have of that like one side, and you have that dichotomy right whereas we we don't, like it's just it's all state funded news, like and so I've been told that too. You really don't get

Yeah, yeah, I think that it's just my theory. I think the OTO is technically a Rosicrucian order. Yeah, Like I think they hide under different names, you know what I'm saying, Like they're they're in orders, but they're not as Yeah, because you even had like Rosicrucian apologists or we're you know people in the six seen hundreds, No, when the words and Crusion papers came out, and it's just like nobody really like admitted it to being one,

Well, I think they use like a lot of the time, like pomp and circumstance to sort of like as like a cover for it too, right, because we view it as just tradition, and we view it as like, oh, this is just the Crown doing what they do. This is just like you know, Canada is a Crown country. So we stick to these, you know, and initiatory processes when it comes to Parliament, when it comes to like bringing in a new Prime Minister or Speaker of the House.

Yeah, it's really weird, weird to watch.

Yeah, it's almost sounds like some sort of like Masonic style ritual. Yeah.

Yeah, because like even like some of the you know, the initiations I've been through in the OTO, you can be like a little uh no, no, I haven't anything that dramatic, but like they are kind of like a little bit you know, something like that, And they're all kind of basically based off of Freemason initiations even though they're still the OTO, so they can get very theatrical those Masons and their initiations and stuff. So it just

The same way we put up a Christmas tree every year and no one really knows what that mean. Right. It's there's like, yeah, the amount of the amount of magic rituals that people are partaking in without even realizing that they are, you know, it's it's yeah. Is there any other others that you can like having been through, like having being well versed in the ritual side of things, Like what do you notice that people do that could be considered ritual that that they're just like unaware of.

Oh oh, I mean I could get it as basically as like if you brush your teeth when you get up that's a ritual Yeah, but that could be like a deep question. I'm not sure where to go with that. Actually, I would probably even say, like our reactions to things they want to get, you know, that's I could be

I've had it was my old co host when I first thought it.

I think he covered it in his own separate show, but I mean he decovered how that's like such a Masonic like thing. Oh yeah, the baseball diamond alone like showed some of the Masonic symbolism. But yeah, I would even say, uh, stuff like that. Uh probably, I hate to say, I don't know if the people's energy you're probably being used at live events mm hmm. You know, when when artists are performing, I do believe some of them actually do understand what the fuck they're doing up on the stage.

Yeah, oh the people you know paying me are doing this? Now you understand it? Too. Yeah, there's a lot of energy concentrated in one room, right, like pretty potent.

And when you say used, you know what I mean, just like the way you would go to a concert and there's energy back and forth between the performer and the fans. You mean used us you.

Oh yeah, yeah, raised raised the energy hardest.

Yeah, yeah, hm. So I guess that kind of like brings me if we're going we want to kind of stick on the the Hollywood and like art and media kind of thing. So obviously like Crowley is is like kind of the figurehead. I don't I don't know your your personal thoughts on Crowley my mind. I mean I kind of view him as like as like a bit of a puppet in a way, like he was the one that was sort of allowed to take center stage with it.

Yeah you know what I mean, tell with especially like you know, I'm trying to I'm eventually going to cover myself and I've had like seventy pages of notes on the guy, and I mean he was so much involved with intelligence on both sides. Yeah, Like who the fuck even really knows what the helble's up with this dude.

Well, in the amount of like artists that were quote unquote influenced by him or or you know, inspired by him. Is just sort of like, how how did this guy make it into your field of view?

You?

Right?

Yeah, well, sometimes even what do like if part of like like do we know him the way we're supposed to?

Right? You know, I think a lot of his stories, I mean again.

If he wrote them, they sound very occult symbol symbolism anyway.

So it's just like it's just certain ones.

Like things that I've read or looked at of his and it's like as I'm reading and I'm like, is this really a story or you just telling another occult tale? Like it's a symbolism in here that I'm supposed to catch on to to see what you're saying. Yeah, So it's like I even wonder, like what's And again, I'm not saying this to say the guy was better person than he is. No, I definitely think at times he was a degenerate drug addict. On not puttinghim on a pedestal.

Stuff, very little people are gonna look at your work.

Only the people that really don't give a fuck or might be a little twisted or just like I think, like for me, I understand, and I do believe the guy wasn't a perfect human being. He probably did some fucked up shit, but I also do think he was onto something. So that's why I was interested in his stuff. M you know, so I do think, like to an extent, like they'll put that image on the person so nobody even looks.

At their shit as well, staying them almost.

Yeah, I mean there's plenty of degenerates with good ideas, right, I mean, like I had a Hunter S. Thompson phase, and like that guy was you know, he was fucked, but he's had some brilliant writing and some really ideas and stuff. You know, you kind of have to and you said like you have to experience that death, you gotta you gotta dance with the devil a little bit to understand like what he's about, you know.

Yeah, yeah, I would say that. Yeah, I mean it's e gonna.

It was definitely like even being in the OTO, it was a good experience for me to even say, like this is who I don't want to be and do want to be.

So, I mean, it all had it's it helped. What was it about the OTO that that you liked and didn't like? Like what what initially made you want to actually join a magical order versus like, you know, brought you to leave?

And and what what made you leave?

Yeah?

Yeah, originally I was getting you know, I was practicing magic at this point. I was doing ceremonial stuff, but I was doing it out of books, and I started to notice discrepancies between stuff and books, like like a book maybe referring I'm almost positive it was somebody referring to Crowley and one of his uh I think he leab a Rush and in the book wasn't in the same order that it was when Croley wrote it.

So I was just like, how the like you fucked that up?

So I was like, all right, I guess, like I can't even like really count on books to be incorrect. So I was like, maybe I should see if there's one of these fucking orders or one of these things around here, and I'll just join it and see what

It was this. So I met him.

I met a couple of people through there, and I spoke to a couple of Freemasons, and one of them was like, don't even balther. If you're gonna want to get into ceremonial magic, which he was in himself, he says, the Freemason is just it's gonna take forever, he says, until they even acknowledge that shit's you know, real, he says, But if you're better off probably with like the Golden Down the Oto which he was in, or the Martinists. And there was none unless it was a Golden Down

Fuck.

Totally honest with you when I say this a lot, I was much more hoping for a golden doing, right, which then kind of did have a little bit of Crowley's you know, Crowley was in it, so I had assumed that it probably had some value, you know, because he kind of ripped off a lot of their shit too. And uh, and it just seems to have like a little bit more of an academic angle to it, or didn't have like such I guess negative connotations along with it.

So I was like, fucking I'll go to the OTO.

So, you know, long story just to say all that, but yeah, basically because of me wanting to, I guess, go to a source and go to a place that has probably like an outlined like this is what's worked, you know, go by this there's still plenty in there to throw in your own stuff, but some sort of outline that you know you can go by that is, don't to worry gonna have to worry about screwing anything up or changing anything around. So that's what brought me there.

Like whoever you were with, like I was married at the time. Uh, she probably had to be a member or where it started coming.

And I was just like, even though I've asked her a comment, she's always said no. It's just like if she did she showed up for a Gnostic mass, it probably wouldn't went well because I mean I never told her, but you know, titties come out well that ship.

She were like, Yo, you're getting the fuck out of here and all the fucking yeah You're like, oh you've been coming here that long.

Going on?

Yeah yeah, yeah, yeah sure. But uh, I was just like, all right, so that's not gonna work, okay. I my opinion, I thought that's a little drastic. Yeah, oh that's just fucking weird to me. It's like, what if you want to break from this place like it fucking go home and it's still there.

You know what I'm saying, yeah, I mean uh. And then the one thing that I was like, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa.

I almost paused it was the eighth degree where they're like, you're gonna sign over everything of your ship to the OTO. Oh now it's a cult, all right, Yeah, I know this at the second degree and don't go any follow but I don't go too much fallow, you know what I'm saying, like, this isn't uh, this isn't gonna be a lifetime thing.

This is gonna be you know, short right. I was not down with that, so that had bothered me prior. You know, at that point I'd already had it in my mind that I was like, this is you know again, this is only going to be short lived at this point, because I did find that extremely fucking weird.

Yeah, and then COVID.

Came and then this is I don't know, I feel like at that point the OTO seemed to have a political agenda. They closed at first, but me and a couple of the members store it was a kind of silly. It's just like, yo, you need to tell me Jesus got bigger bulls and horse right now, Like like an horse is fucking scared as he hiding behind his shield, like what the fuck?

Man? Like, yeah, come on.

Like how about Like is there's people who have balls enough to go down there and open it up, and there's people have balls enough to go down there and hang out to.

Just fucking do that.

Yeah, you know what I'm saying, Like, because I know, between me and other people that have been there long enough that would have been able to do that. We would have been able to go down there every fucking weekend if we wanted to and actually opened something up. He came out, I'm doubted, but who knows. I'm just saying, were you know there whatever. I didn't agree with them

It was fair enough, yeah, yeah, yeah, And unfortunately it was like people I kind of got close.

With, and I was just like, now, unfortunately, like finding out you're weird or you're just like, you know, an alcoholic. It's very uncomfortable. I don't know how to explain it. So, uh yeah, I really wasn't going that much anymore. And they started doing the zoom meetings. I'm like, you know what, that's like real easy. I don't even have to show my face to just have to see my name, you know.

I listened, I turn around, mute myself on my fucking headset, and.

You know, blah blah blah.

It looks like I showed up, you know, because I still had in my head like, well, maybe I'll still hang out, like maybe I'll you know, I'll do another degree or two before it gets to you know, to where I don't want to go anymore, you know whatever.

Might fuck myself.

And so then like one day I got an email and I'm like, yo, you gotta be kidding me. They had a meeting because of the George Floyd situation. I was like, wait what, I'm like, this has nothing to do with the magic the Book of the Law.

I'm like, all right, I gotta go anyway.

And then like it came to me like I don't think it was like, I'm almost positive it came through liked it to who he lodge email. That wasn't like, you know, the lodge master or somebody that I was cool with sent me the email through their personal email, Like it came through the OTO.

So I was just like, really, I like, what what the fuck? I was like, I gotta go check this out. This's fucking bullshit. So I got there and it basically like you know, they kind of went over the situation and then like started going around like the room, you know whatever, it's a fucking virtual rumoring. I didn't say anything. This was me and like a few people skipped and.

People like talking about their experiences, like them experiencing racism. I was like, well, first off, it's fucking weird. There's only one black guy on this whole fun I was like, maybe should we address that first, like DICKX, let's truss that. I don't know what to tell you, Like, you know, I don't know the other black guy.

You kicked him out because he was an alcoholic, so I mean, you have less of them.

So it was just like it was just fucking weird. To start like, I was just like, what is going on here? I'm like, this has nothing to.

Do I mean, I got cold.

I have white privilege for talking about this situation on another which podcast, so you know, keep it on compan Yeah, white privilege because I didn't understand whether fuck George Floyd's being talked about in the OTO. I was like that, I said, listen, what happened to that guy, if it was real, was horrible. It shouldn't have happened. But that had nothing to do with going against them my will whatsoever.

Yeah, didn't affect me.

So why am I going to be out in the streets losing myself over that shit?

Yeah? You know, I just I was like, I just don't agree with it. And I said, you know, the OTO.

Pretty much supposed to be like Alcoholics Anonymous, where we have nothing to talk about except what the fuck goes on in this big book, inside this room, outside of these doors, have nothing to do with the fuck we're talking about, just the same way as the OTO, So why the fuck are we talking about George Floyd and other people's experiences with racism.

I just found it very weird.

And then they started, you know, going on about oh, maybe we could get protests together, and I'm like, oh, whoa, Like what the fuck is going on here? Yeah?

I was like, Yo, this is weird. And then like the one, the one black guy who was also a lawyer, so that's running.

His mouth going on about like if Antifa gets deemed a terrorist, which may years later they did.

Our rights are going right out the window. We can't let this happen. We'll be fucked blah blah blah blah blah blah. And I was like, Yo, when did this turn into? So I'm like leftist rally? Yeah, yeah that's and I was like, what the fuck happened?

To imagine?

You know, like even Crawley would be like, shut the fuck up, bitches and do magic already, you fucking we probably leave that order.

If that guy was alive today, he'd be like, motherfuckers are all bitches? Man, Like, yeah, that's super strange to me.

I never would have imagined that that went on. Do you think it was so huge? And the George Floyd thing was pretty easy to see through. I think being not in the States as well being Canadian, Like you could see when it was put out why it was put out and to create more division, and it was just before the election, I think too, right, yeah, yeah, anyway, yeah, you think that people people would see through that.

The COVID thing even weeded me out to where it's like, all right, like this could really be coincidental, really could be. But like, all right, I'm in the OTO, and like there are people who like, if you're in the OTO, you might be in the astro Argentim, or at least you know of the Astronomergentim. You might eve even like you know, uh, looked at the books that they suggest to read or whatever, like you probably know who they are, and you know that their robes are what they look like.

Of a KKK out it. It's really weird.

And it has like the eye and the you know, the thing on its forehead triangle and shit.

I have one, and.

Again like no mouthpiece and then like suggested circle size is normally six feet so like when coviing came, I was even like, yo, this is just like just like I guess maybe because I owned one. I was like, this is just so weird, Like I have my mouth's covered and six feet apart, like that's what I look like when I'm doing a ritual in my fucking living room.

Mm hmm. Wow. I don't know if that had anything to do with it. And your eyes project out six feet believe it or not.

Yeah, all that I was just like, listen, I maybe from a conspiratory, you know, angle. I would still think some people would be like hmm, like that seems very reminiscent of like X, Y and Z. Nobody at all, like not at one person I knew that was probably in the OTO, and very very few people that I knew were in Rich Crift and the occult community. Total, you know why that I knew saw anything weird about COVID Actually yeah, I was like, your motherfuckers, like, don't see it.

It was kind of weird.

The magicians and you're getting mind fucked right now? What is wrong with you? Yeah? Yeah, gives you.

TV fucking BLM is walking down the streets to wherever the fuck they want right now.

My opinion on some of that though, was like at the time, like the thing is is like these these like people that do magic and stuff already sort of exist out on the fringe, right, So it's like in my mind, it's like there are always people that kind of want to like remain in the shadows a little bit, not draw attention to themselves. So my thought with all of that is like, oh, these are already like organizations

We're staying running ceremonies, you know, the but if it's a secret society, you know what I mean, you think they would at least say at the meetings, you know, we're just doing this to show show face or you know what I mean, to get it off a good image.

We don't actually met any of these things. Going to what he talked about, it's crazy.

Another thing too, they eventually sent an email out out on that, and I don't know if you know, like if you ever heard them say ninety three, you know, it's like a you know, the limic thing.

Now, I know, I would assume because they didn't ask me, they didn't ask Jordan, they didn't ask Jason, they didn't ask Michael, and I think there was one other person. It's only I know that's only five people or whatever, but there was a handful of us that I know.

We never got an email for it.

We got this email saying that ninety three percent of the lodge is not comfortable with opening up again unless we're vaccinated.

Was I never got that email?

Wow? So where did you get this ninety three percent from fucking the line? Yeah, you threw ninety three in there to probably sound cute for the fucking Elemites. Oh yeah, and they just fucking ran with it and accepted it. Yeah.

So do you think that someone high up knew what was going on and still just wanted to keep the sy up going or like, that's that's crazy.

I don't, I'll be totally honest with you.

I choke.

No, Yeah, you wouldn't, really.

I mean, there's a lot of things with that organization that I don't understand. I mean, I've even said at times I think I think it's quite possible if could be CIA.

I said at this point, Yeah, well, I know, like so I don't know what what you know, demographic kind of makes up a lot of the OTO, but I know, with like Freemasons and stuff, like all the Masons I know are fairly like affluent people, like they're either lawyers or they're like, you know, business owners and things like that. Even thing, dude, I experienced it. It was doctors, lawyers, people own their own businesses.

People that walked in there that the way people you see people walk in there like they're from the craft, you know, a very cop. You know, it looks like they came out from an interview with the vampire ship.

There's a guy who like literally like almost dress like that was like fucking Jesus Christ.

Well, you'd have people from there to so many roads, just like what the fuck are you doing here?

Yeah, you know, I think I think though, like with these secret societies and stuff, they end up attracting people like that because it's all you're already like, so if you're a doctor, right, like you're already in this in this world of status, like you put a lot of academics, believe it or not, we're very, very interested in that ship. And it makes me wonder if it's if it is has more to do with the hierarchical, like, you know, just being a part of something that's a step above

Of the work.

But they think that they show up and do some psycho drama and whatever. Well exactly, and that's kind of my that's kind of my point with it is like when I was looking, I was doing some research for this and just like looking into the OTO and and different orders, and then there's you know, you get the guys that kind of fall outside of that, that are very against like the hierarchy of it all. What was the guy I've I've found like Phil Hines and Grant

Don't exactly well yeah, I I I say, like my no, well maybe myself to an extent would be like I find something there in the LIMA, but I don't align with the UTO. Yeah, Like I'm having Georgina rose On, she's not a Note to YO member, but she practices the LIMC magic.

M hm. So I don't know if that's what you're kind of getting at, like somebody who Yeah, well, I just I'm I I guess I was just kind of getting at like, it doesn't surprise me that there's a good chunk of there's a lot of people that do do that. Yeah, that are just you know, in it for the status of it, not in it for Oh okay, yeah you know what I mean. Yeah, I was even gonna say this.

I guess what I'm trying to get as even a lot of people out there who don't align with these orders but still practice the magic solidarity too.

Oh okay, that's a big thing as well, believe it or not.

Huh, there's probably more people practicing with the Limke Magic at home than there is in the order, right, I mean, I'll keep it real and it's like I kind of bragging it not but like I have more people that listen.

To my podcast and there is members of the OTO at this point.

M okay, yeah, do you think there's a danger in people doing it? Maybe not a danger is the right word, Like full disclosure. I think I've went over this on a few of our other podcasts. This stuff scares me a little bit, not scares me like in the world sense, just if it was something I had to go through. Crossing that threshold is something that would even the thought of it scares me. And can things come about from people just practicing it at home? From right? Can things

The oto would have said said it, I would say almost ninety nine percent of everybody in there that was worth listening to all would say the same thing.

The magic happens at home when you doing it yourself.

You come here, Yes, you're doing things collectively, and maybe there might be a little bit of you know, something going on, but it really is magic is a personal Like if I'm saying what I think it is for myself, have any experience with God that is extremely personal?

You know that's not happening when you're out with your friends. That's happening when you're home, like like at your altar, crying to God for something to change, you know, shit like that is when that will happen. That that then mm hmm. And that so like to Mike's point though, then is there like.

There's a lot of benefits to it? I think on your own?

Yeah, is there like malproducts it is. Let's say, if.

You're gonna say, you know what, I'm gonna get into ceremonial magic, and I'll tell you the first thing you should do is get into meditation, and then I can list ten other things. If you just get to meditation and never even go past that, you fucking got.

It all right. You're doing good because, believe it or not, I don't think you once.

For me, once I had a magical experience. All I need to do after that is meditate to do it over again. I got to do no ritual. I'm gonna call down, call down this, X, Y and Z all that bullshit. I close my eyes and I know way to go right right. You've built the pathway there already. Yeah, yes, I mean that's a I think as a personal if you really my my from my experience, I do think on your own you can literally have an experience with God. Yeah, I do think he will. He will give you that chance.

All gotta go. You gotta leave the flesh. That's my opinion. That's the the whole ego death thing, right, like part of it.

Yeah, yeah, yeah yeah.

And in that experience when you are, when I feel my self coming out of it, it literally feels like that's what's melting off of me, fear, anxiety, and hate, all.

The ship my ego was.

Is you literally like you feel like you're becoming weightless.

Yeah, all those emotions just fucking dissipate and all you feel is love and that's it.

M Like I can say, but like I've I've never done like magical practice, but I've I've messed around with psychedelics enough to have kind of been in that in that space before you know it? Is it the same thing? Is it like that when you're in that like heroic like heroes dose mushroom trip and you're like, you know, you die because I've had that happen where it's like I'm like, yeah, I'm dead, like this is this is where I am now? Is Is it comparable or are you talking about as different.

It's interesting.

I've done a lot of like hallucinogenics, a lot of acids and shroops. I never did d MT, though I've done Mescalona for you a few times. Any experiences I've had with that, I not really. But the weird thing is, though what I could attribute it to and this this might get a little weird. Every time I've ever had a magical experience, that experience itself.

Has always been beautiful. There's nothing ever been negative about it. Coming back and opening up my eyes just my opinion, You're gonna have.

To realize your world's going to.

Change every time that happens, because there's gonna be new truths that you've experienced or sore or just things that make sense now that is probably going to fracture beliefs

Within yourself, like fuck, did I really snap?

You know, worrying about that like it's real that or then the whole Like there's been times on it when I really felt like my head was removed from my body and I was just like kind of witnessing.

That I felt on PCP.

That's a little bit like kind of experience I've.

Had with magic, but never I've had plenty of people we've even told me my experience sounds very close to their follocentogenic trips like you're talking about.

But I don't.

I've never seen a connection too much. I mean I may not have, you know, I always kind of stuck to like, you know, splitting an eighth with the friends of Shrooms quarter, so maybe you know, maybe I don't know.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, we're the similarities between what you saw and what they saw.

Like a lot of times when I talk about, uh, some people they are that eclipse were kind of like.

Spirals of like colors or geometric symbols stuff like that. I've had people say that they've they've seen.

That or.

Again it sometimes there's a lot of things that I can't even really describe, yeah, because there isn't just like it almost like it doesn't exist in this.

World to have words for.

But the colors can get very different, almost like almost like like you're looking at like a thermal camera type of color. I've had some people that I have thought that the way I've tried to describe the way things looked in the color and the texture, even the texture at times looked a little different. People seem to have said that they've seen that on a DMT lit mushrooms.

Yeah. I've had people tell me, well, it's not like yeah, to me, it sounds a lot just like like frequency perception, right, like you know, there's the whole thing that we can only see what is it, like thirteen percent of the actual whole color spectrum.

And oh yeah, things like that real quick.

I'm talking about the eyeballs and how important they are in a cult symbolism. Well, that's one of the reasons that if you start looking, if.

You look up animals, insects or whatever that all have like better eyes than us or can see more of this spectrum. You'll be like, oh wow, okay, yeah, that i've seen in a cold symbolism that I've seen in a cold symbolism that I've seen it cold, just not seeing similarities like something special.

To do with the others. Just wanted to throw that out. Yeah, well well no and then that's yeah, that was kind of my point was like it sounds to me like what's Yeah, what's happening is like you're opening up. It's like, you know, the the eyes of perception, like you're you're just like expanding that that lens that you're able to see things through.

Right, So yo, the whole shell of a scorpion is a written Really that's insane.

Huh.

Do you know about cat eyes? The only other animals of eyes like a cat or reptiles they have reptilian yeah, house cats they don't. Like big cats don't have the same eyes as house cats. Yeah, maybe that's what they can see everything.

Yeah anyway, Yeah, well I mean this.

Yeah, actually you're faster than snakes too when it comes to reaction time. Really, oh yeah, they actually are.

Yeah. Yeah, a cat will just that'll smack the shit out of a fucking sneak all.

Day for the most Yeah, you're even go look it up in reaction times you'd be like, holy shit, a cat is actually fastive?

Huh that's cool. Yeah, yeah, I don't know it was.

I don't know why the fuck I know this shit?

Yeah?

Funny the stuff I remember? Yeah yeah yeah, yeah right, especially when it comes to animals.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, another thing.

I've been really interested in them lately.

I don't know if it's because I just didn't pay attention to them enough in like the last twenty or thirty years, but like, I feel like the animals are even certain pet scene laser. It's kind of getting a little bit more like I'm not human but like self aware. And I've been wondering, like, yo, like if there is like people want to talk about this whole like it's nice to think of some hole like I guess leveling

Yeah?

Why not?

Just why only humans? You know?

Could that be for everything?

So that means like what, you know, could my cat actually start getting a little bit more intelligent? Yeah?

Well, I mean or could we like not telepathically, but could we actually read each other just better?

Yeah? Well, there's that that whole that whole topic now where like the Earth's magnetic field is weakening, right, so we're getting these we're getting light codes or whatever. You know, if you're into the whole New age thing, people think that you're getting we're upgrading basically.

And they're not fighting it. Humans would fight it start right, Like a lot of people would fight getting an upgrade. They wouldn't want it or wouldn't even know what it was, you know what I mean, whereas an animal is just going to take it in.

Yeah, I think it's something crazy when it comes to the eyeballs, uh, and it called symbolism and just stuff that I think is weird. If you want to look at like basically our eyes pick up life from the sun. It goes inside our eyeballs, you know, bounces around off the lens and does all this other shit.

But then that's something light.

When it hits your optic nerve gets trans gets turned into the like electricity, the electric pulse that the rest of your body runs on. So I mean we're basically being powered technically from the sun through our eyes and there's code in there that our brain is also decoding, and it turns like I said, then turns into electricity

And now your nerves go flood with that of a fucking feeling you you have to well, yeah, and to take it into a conspiratorial angle, right, Like it makes sense then why they're trying to block out the sun, makes sense, why they're spraying all the ship in the sky to make it gray all the time? Right, Like, No, that's all that sun is is fucking code man. Yeah, yeah, for surely.

I mean if you even think about like the way you don't just look at the way our fucking internet works, I mean it's anything Asy's Kirtry even said this back in like the fifteen to sixteen hundreds.

He detart He said he's a Jesuit priest, but in occultas said that in the future, with light in crystals, I think we'll be able to transport spirits and demons. And if you think about the way our screens work and our phones work, and the way the Internet work with optical is just basically light flashing down a fucking tube of wire until it gets put into Wi Fi or whatever. That's just light and code and light and then crystals on our screens to see what it's saying.

That motherfucking nailed it.

Yeah well so yeah, well, I mean like quantum computing. We we just did an episode on on quantum computing and the way the like architects of that view it is is actually like jumping into parallel universes. It's not it's not a computing thing to them. This is interdimensional like.

Shoe it is if you really start looking at the shit of how this stuff works, so it can get really like, what are we really doing with this technology?

Yeah?

Yeah, well, I mean we listen, we're slaves to it ourselves. This is how we do our show. But you're not thinking about You're like.

What the fuck?

Yeah, I don't know.

Yeah, I mean.

This it's a little weird if you think about it.

And I mean, on one hand, it all just exists, and it's how it hads it like magic, right, it's how you use it that determines the impact that it has on the world. So I mean it's like, yeah, this technology exists, and there's a bunch of people trying to use it to control people, and then there's a bunch of people trying to like plant seeds and open people's minds with it. You know, you know, your wings are the same bird doing the same thing. You know.

Another thing I find that like weirds me out too.

With like all this technology, it always and if it's just if this sounds or sight or or whatever anything like that involved, everything always has a fucking magnet.

M you can't do it without a magnet. Our speakers all need a fucking magnet. Ye, these hard rize and magnets. Like wait, what the fuck is up with that? Man?

Like this is like the monolith and two thousand and one space, I say, like what the fuck?

I don't know, it's just weird when you saw I thinking, you know, and how you know, magnetism is huge.

I think in the occult, you know, electricity and magnetism I think could really boil everything down. But like I don't know, just even like for an occult is like if they never really started looking at things like that, Like that's fucking weird.

M hm. Why do you always need a magnet in order to create sounds? And it's all about polarity, Well, if you want to project it from somewhere else, yeah yeah.

Yeah, it's uh and then travels like an electric pulse like our fucking sun does to our life.

I mean, magnetism was considered magic when it was first brought to the fort, like people who just assumed it was magic. You know, you can create, you can displace objects and create space between objects using magnets, right, so like on a large scale, think of that, right, like.

Yeah, or even like yeah, like your cassette tech in your old car, like and then it's running wires which are like our veins down to the fucking speakers that have a magnet the pump about the sound that's coming from that cassette.

Yeah, but even I mean I'm saying like on a on a large scale, like we have to talk about other planets and stuff and the other dimensions, Like is it just like opposing magnets, you know what I mean? Like that space or.

That's what I think even happens with the polar shifts, the magnetic shift changes. Yeah, you know unfortunately. You know, I think if I'm correct, like two or three planets in succession have done it now. Yeah, so like the next Toms.

I hate to say, like, that's probably what's going calm down the line.

Yeah yeah, I mean there's to be glow about it.

If you get another one or two planets that flip, I'd be like, fuck, this doesn't look good coming down the road. Yeah, we might just get warm, warm winters. You know, you guys will be like, oh, it's like Florida now exactly.

There's a lot you guys, probably the craziest fertile ground that ship throws out the show Man.

The ship you guys could grow would be fucking no kidding.

Yeah, I'm thinking weed and fucking I'm thinking weed and coffee beans right away.

That's that's probably all I grow. That's Toto's an egg plant. So I've italian self right on. Yeah, we've kind of we've kind of jumped all over the place a little bit. I got I got a whole bunch of questions. I wanted to kind of get back to you. So you know you were you were saying, uh, with with the rituals and and and bringing your wife at the time

But oh yeah, uh all right real quick, if your orgy every two years, the OTO does notokon. And that's like the conference now you probably I've heard I've never gone to one. I've heard that if you go when you're in nerval or a first degree No, I think you have to be first degree. In my bed, if you go, probably won't happen if you're a nerval but first degree if you get tapped on the shoulder, and

Believe it. I'm sweat to god, sweater god. I knew people who did that shit that personally, Like I knew them through the internet through like felemic fucking groups on.

Facebook that that did that shit, and so like that. I actually say that that is real that if you go to one of those things, that that might actually be going on in a hotel room somewhere that wherever that convention is happening.

But in the order itself, there's been things.

Higher up that I will say, like I don't know if I could you know that much, I could probably really defend that does seem like it is possibly sex magic.

I it was still very questionable on.

That if it's actual sex.

But uh, I yeah, that would if anything like that from the things that I have heard claims about with certain degrees going high up, Yeah, that's not gonna happen until like you're up.

There up there.

Yeah, I feel like there was another question.

Well I sort of just like that, like I just my it was kind of an open ended question, But I just sort of think, like I I kind of seem to notice that it's what attracts a lot of like, yes.

That's going to go on with that, I was gonna go on unfortunately unfortunate. You are very correct on that, though. Yeah, I will say for some reason, I'm just gonna keep it real.

Selemac magic and chaos magic seem.

To have very much that kind of like a sex sexualized connotation with it.

You know. That's because like when it comes to chaos magic, there's like a few ideas or ways people will charge their sigils to do their cigal work, mantras, a.

Few other things in masturbating is one of them. So there's a lot of people who I think or you know, kind of get into it, probably just looking for a friend to freak off with.

Le'll be totally honest with you.

I think, like what you're getting at, that's an edge for them, and they're probably just looking to find somebody.

Or they're finding it as a they're probably sexually sick. Was put it that way.

You know, they're probably looking for a place to keep to keep some sort of thing going that they're into. You know this might work out if I want to be a sexual debate getting into chaos magic. I'm interested in magic. I'm interested in chaos magic. I'm interested in magic, and I'm I want to find some you know, easy people to freak off with.

I know the oto has a sexual connotation to it, Fuck it, I'm just fu going there.

Yeah, unfortunately, I know people were probably into this shit. Don't want to hear it, but it's fucking true.

Well yeah, real when it comes to the occult, that's a hot bed of mental health to begin with.

Yeah, yeah, let's just keep it real. You know that's saying I was fucking perfect. I'm fucking I know I'm weird too.

Oh yeah, I know that. Yeah I'm not. Yeah, I'm no pillar of mental health.

Yeah yeah, I'm just not that weird.

Like if I think someone's weird at that point, it's probably bad because I believe it or not. I am pretty you know, open to like whatever you want your own home. I don't give a shit really, yeah for sure.

Yeah, I just feel like I kind of stay like I And again I'm not I'm not judging. I don't care. Whatever you want to let your freak flag fly.

I don't really care, but but yeah, but it's just like I feel like it almost like there's all these things that kind of like put the stain on practicing magic, whereas it's like, you know, and that's separated from sort of mainstream religion.

And I've never really seen the difference, like when I've been to Catholic I have Catholic family, and I've been to Catholic masses, and I'm like, how is this not magic? Like people are fucking crazy if you think that this is not magic, Like you're performing a ritual, there's a ceremony going on, Like how is this a uh, you know, a moral version of magic? And yet like you know, individualized practice magic is the devil, Like I just you know what I mean. So yeah, I don't know that

And oh yeah, people are actually trying to accomplished even when you look into it, like a Nochian magic like that. Because this is something that I had to learn about over the last month. I didn't know very much about it, and I had to research and research, but it seems

Of that, by the way, Synchronicity.

What are your thoughts on on the Babylon Babylon Working? Is there any thoughts at all? Just just kind of what we were talking about to kind of disparage the OTO and give it a bad name.

Culmination of a bunch of things. I think they're probably were They're fucking around doing something. But uh I I because of I'm trying to think a way to word it.

I think Hubbard's I don't know how much about Parsons by Parsons, Yeah, Unfortunately, with Lockeed Martin and Crowley, I think we're involved in the government a lot more than more people think. I think they actually had something to do with MK Ultro as well, or some Crowley did, at least by far and I think part of Hubbard did as well, that a long story short is that we also got to give you some story and some bullshit story about why they're paling around then what they were really doing.

So why not why not just say they're all butt fucking each other?

Yeah, fair enough.

I mean they probably weren't too, you know.

Yeah, It's just I do think that there's just times Crowley came to New York, went to mon talk. There's certain things that that guy's done, certain doctors that he's come across him. The thing with him too, when Parsons, you look at the chicks therewith at certain times.

Follow their last names. These motherfuckers were hooked up with Lockheed Martin.

Bitches man that I was gonna say. So the Babylon, the Babylon working woman was at Marjorie Cameron like so when you look into her life, she was I lived somewhere in the Midwest, I think Iowa or something like that. Then during the war, worked for the Navy, worked at the White House.

Yeah, if you were to look at stan right the females around with, you'll see you'll see a little bit more of a connection of what you can really find out about you know them, you know crole.

Or the exactly too much of their story. Yeah, and that was the old Cohos came across. They were looking at the women and they were like, Yo, this ship is shady. Yeah.

And then Jack Parsons died and she joined like the beatnik kind of group, almost like she was infiltrating that group. And then she went to San Francisco and then she went to La and the whole time she was in all these weird a cult adjacent kind of groups, you know what I mean. Well, it's always she's very odd. And the only picture you find of her from the forties she's in a navy outfit.

It's funny how it's Yeah, it's funny how that always seems to work that way because even like to jump back to you know, the Charlie Kirk stuff, like the whole Erica Kirk thing, like she she's kind of kind of looks like she's a bit of a handler, you know what I mean, Like that's that sha looks insane. It was like, Yo, was she like a spy?

Well yeah, yeah, right, like really weird dude.

Yeah, yeah, you could dig into you can dig into anyone that's been kind of like I look at Yoko Ono, I mean right, like John Lennon was onto something Yoko Ona made him look crazy and broke up the Beatles. I mean people, I know people argue that, but let's face it, she did and you.

Know, go off and regardless, you know what I'm saying.

Well yeah, yeah, but but you know, like where does she come from? Well, she comes from the like the fine art world, like the high like where you know that.

You know, some some fucking plants we did well yeah, yeah, New York artist is like a very It's it's a blanket term for I worked for the CIA, yeah.

Yeah, and like yeah that was even like other things too. It's like I don't know if it was it was it Crawley, Yeah, I think that somebody there was, Like I think him and other people have been known to like their spots in the city have been known to like the CIA has used them to put other people in these places as well. Mm hmm.

So it's like, come on, like this is just a known like spot toed Age.

It's just working out them now really famous people actually, yeah, so.

As justin Epstein kind of thing long long, long ago, the Golden Order their Hamta Don same thing. There's a few people from that who are like, we're spies in World War two mm and well known that algann On Blackwood guy was one for sure. Yeah, so it makes sense intelligent intelligence gathering.

Yeah. Oh, I think a real occult is like a real magician. I think they would actually be very, very valuable to the CIA es. Like if they're huge into like jamatri and shit, you already got a fucking code breaker, I mean, or a person who can write the shit and code now, yeah, you know.

Which I do think Croley did that.

I actually wonder in some of his stuff if he's actually putting out shit he wasn't supposed to.

M Well, like you said earlier yourself, like when you start getting into this stuff, you start to understand human psychology better, right, So the whole parapsycholic parasp psychology realm that these guys work in, Like, yeah, it would make sense that they'd be well versed in that to truly understand how to manipulate the human psyche. And you know, plant seeds and plant ideas and even like think about Jack Parsons him again, I don't know what you guys

I do think actually Roly Parsons and Hubver might all have actually indirectly had something to do or directly with NASA.

That's the mine.

But Jack Parsons, if he, I could be wrong, but I think I'm onto something here. And in this way of thinking, if he technically didn't come up with the type of rockets that he did, space travel never would.

Have vieve it have been possible. Mm hmm.

So it's like you have to follow that whole line.

It's starting from an ocultist Jack Parsons, That whole lot, whole brings us to the moon in a sense, how much nazis, how much of this is real? And again, what did I say? I think Nazi magic is is by giving you images and making you think you're seeing something that's not real.

That's my opinion of landing on the moon.

M Sorry, I was just gonna say, And who did they use to to fut like, to further Jackpart's ideas, they use the Nazis right from Operation Paper Club.

Yeah, yeah, that's it just gets interesting. Yeah, so that is your opinion even on the whole like disclosure thing, UFOs, aliens, all that bullshit.

Yeah, I don't.

Only unfortunately, just due to having magical experiences myself, I have even like I was way open to aliens.

And stuff like that, my idea of that is less now. I really question most of it.

I think sometimes some of the stuff in the sky's we're seeing is just like high tech, or it's as crazy as it is side effects of magic things entering or leaving.

Right, It's amazing how something like that. It's happened for me as well. Over the last couple of years, as I've learned more and more, I've believed in all that stuff less and Lessah, it's a portal, or it's what I want to see, or but it's not actually what I'm seeing.

You know.

Another reason why I believe that too is that, you know, unfortunately it may sound corny, but for me a lot of times when I've had magical experiences, when I'm like not here anymore and I'm somewhere else, and it's like it's like I don't have a body, I'm just like visualizing a scene, like I'm just a part of it. A lot of it looks like shit that NASA would be saying like, oh, this is like out of space.

M hm. So I wonder, like, you know, they already have the idea from visuals that people.

Have seen Alistair Crowley saw the first gray right like that Lamb when he saw Lamb. That's that's what every gray and every alien and everyone's brain looks like that.

It's even like Whitney Streams whatever, I'm screwing his name up. When I looked at his ship after the fact, I was like, Yo, my opinion, this guy just told in a cult story and threw an alien in there.

Yeah.

Like if I was to look at his ship from a cult lens and a cult symbolism, I see someone crossing the abyss.

Well, So his newest book, uh, he straight up says like he didn't write his his dead wife wrote it. He channeled her to write that whole book. So there you go. Yeah, yeah, it's very I mean that's what did Crowley do. Yeah, he channeled that shit. He channeled the Book of the Law to his girlfriend Rose.

And that's like another thing too, just real quick for some people, why I'm going on about his ship being ciphered not me. But Lisa, who's only a cult rejects, she went down to when she lived in Austin. There is a library in Austin that has the Vision and the Voice written by Crowley in his like handnotes before it got published. You even see him telling the editor

He would even note in there leave it like that. That's not a mistake.

You see him writing rose and putting like the math to it and then fitting it into the paragraphs. He's not talking about his fucking girlfriend anymore.

Who's doing that? This guy is ciphering shit.

If people have the chance to go and look at that stuff, you will see how much Jamatri is actually in what he's writing to You got to wonder, what the fuck am I really reading? Yeah, yeah, and again I'm not trying to say like whatever, I don't know where it could be fucking worse shit in there for all I know.

But I'm just saying there's a little bit more to that.

Guy is right, people are what are kind of the rules with that? Though? Because so like, can someone be invoking something without knowing they're invoking it, like you know what I mean, Like if I'm not aware of these these method this methodology and I'm just reading it, Yes, does that still have the same effect.

I think we get a lot of that in social media, a lot of memes and a lot let's go Brandon

Like feeding it. Yeah. Yeah, Like there's so many times when like things would be going on and like Mara a Lago would fucking match and it's like, well Trump fucking mar A Lago just got raded too.

Yeah, very weird, especially with Trump.

A lot of shit, like a lot of phrases he says and stuff about him fucking throw that shit in there. It seems like there's always something that matches what the fuck's going on, right, all like cavify shit and yeah, yeah, oh yeah, weird dude. It's almost to where it's like, you know, even it.

Uh.

Bramovich even said he's a fucking magus. She says he's one of the best magicians out there. She's you know, she that guy is not stupid when it comes to that shit. I don't think.

Doesn't his name equal ninety three? And Ja Mantria as well.

Oh, Mike, I know, Uh Erica Kirk and Nicki Minaj.

Both do mm hmm. Well even like that myself both.

Equally ninety three and Nicki Minaj is now on Donald like she's all over Donald Trump stuff.

Right.

Oh yeah, she's a mega a mega.

Yeah, that was what he is saying, though, now, you know, I would like to go with probably the occult angle. But somebody I was watching them, I think some I don't know, some black comedian was saying, like, the funny thing is though it's like her Man's in jail right now, and I think he's got to you know, still got like I think, like seventy years less to do. They're like, she just doing this to try to get the motherfucker a pardon.

Yeah, you like to you know.

I think they were trying to make like, you shoot, really that type of a bad bitch. She's going to do this to get her a man out of jail.

I mean, I don't know, she's probably being selfish, but you never know, that'd be interesting to fight out like in a few months.

Like all of a sudden, like she's with a boyfriend again.

Okay, yeah, and he certainly has no problem partning anyone. So yeah, no present really.

Yeah, I've seen I've seen it a lot. So I was like that most recent was a Jake. It's Jake Paul right that that fought that guy that came out of retirement, that whole thing, and then the guy got in a car accident.

Yo.

That is crazy, yo, And I'm telling you right now. I when I heard that ship, I remember I was telling people on the show and telling my friend Thereesa. I was like, Yo, the way he said, if you listen to what he says, he wanted.

To do to him.

I was like, I'm telling you right now, that motherfucker is gonna cult this because he knows what's going on. He said, I want to see his soul leave his body.

Mm hmm. He says, he says, that's what bocking is about.

Yeah, yeah, that's it.

I'm telling you those motherfuckers that guy.

That's what the guy who fought Jake Paul said, or that's what Jake.

Yeah, he was saying that. I'm like, uh, he knows what it's about.

Yeah, yeah, feeling I feel like he had a choice. It was either because he's like he came out of retirement for that too, right, So I feel like it.

Might have actually been one motherfucker with bulls and said fuck you, I'm gonna knocked this cocky fucker out anyway.

Oh so well, that was That's what I was gonna say, is that it was either like humiliation ritual or you let this like fucking Disney Channel twerp like win, or or you know, the sacrifice. And both of his trainers died in that car accident, and so I was the thing I wanted to say about the coding with it that's interesting is so if you look up. Like like, whenever there's like a fatal car accident, it's usually motor vehicle acts, usually described as motor vehicle accident, car accent, whatever.

Well you know what we cover.

That equaled a lot of li mix shit like comes of stuff too out of the Book of Lies from Crowley. And it was the weirdest thing because at the time this was another example of was matching so much shit about Elon Muskin Trump was when the Gilgo Beach maurtys popped up again.

I don't know if you remember that, No, I don't know.

Yeah, probably because like for me, it was in New York and Long Island, so I guess. But I mean it did kind of get known across the country again maybe because you guys are in Canada.

Yeah.

Unfortunately, it was like this is this guy who like was killing prostitutes and them burying them at the Gilgo Beach.

Oh in Long Island, yeah yeah, long.

Ago, okay, Yeah, And that it was just a lot of stuff when you be sort of run into the numbers and like the victims and certain things. It was like matching shit, like straight from like Curley's Book of Lives. It was just really weird. It was even stories in there where it was just like certain things started to match up as well. It was just like even parts of the story of places that stuff happened that this is weird. But again it's just like it's something like

Right? Yeah, Well and it sounds like fucking bugged out weird, but like no, you got a lot of the same matching numbers over and over again. Well, and it seems so yeah, because it seems so intentional. But then you start having that conversation with yourself where it's like, so what, there's like this fucking team of people there just sitting and like in a writer's room constantly writing.

This shit, where like maybe it would be possible or is it just like that's just the energetic value of shit happen, right.

Thematical value of evil.

Yeah, you know what I mean, it's the code that this realm runs on sort of thing.

Yeah, have those murders been solved? You know what, I still think that case is ongoing. Like I don't think they've actually convicted him yet.

Also they've they've, they've.

And like even even like the whole way they arrested him was just so cheesy with the type of DNA they used, and it's just I don't know my opinion, it's I think like the families involved more, and the family does have ties to like magic and witchcraft. So I mean that is an angle to where it's like you do sought to have to wonder like how much I don't know, have to explain how much is real, how much is fabricated? You know a lot of things

Are partially are fully fabricated just for TV and people running this, you know, be running the scenes behind the scenes. We still getting a lot of golfundbes hobby to make money off of the case. Yeah, especially from like the victims and stuff. I just uh, like with the.

Go Go Beach, the Happy Face Killer lady.

Somehow, I guess, you know, felt for the wife of the rex Hiroman and open up a GoFundMe for and I was like, yeah, I find that little fucking shitty.

I don't know.

For some reason, I found that weird. And uh, I think I signed up for like itelics like a week week free and that's kind of those like a serious background search, so it's illegal, you know, but it's just you know, we'll do crazy background search for whatever. You know, it's illegally can show you that lady's been busted for financial crimes already, like scams. Like so it's like, all right, like what the fuck's really going on here?

M h.

It's just very weird. You know, a lot of shit was going on with that with the Idaho four case. That that case is really weird.

It's like everybody got fucking cremated and then they knocked the house down before the fucking trial was even over. Yeah, there's no proof the.

Fucking bodies at all.

I don't they harbably even showed I think they were having problems even showing the bodies about all of them coming out of the house. Like it was just very weird, a very weird situation, and like that had like tons of a cult symbolism around it too.

It was just very weird.

And like a lot of their ship matched the same numbers.

It was just fucking bizarre.

And then those numbers, like I was saying before, match a lot of Trump and Elaunch ship, which is sucking really weird. And Back to the Future for some reason, Back to the Future pops up a lot was popular.

That is weird.

I've seen a there's a guy used to fall into a Biff, Biff Tannon's dual timeline who his whole thing was that Biff from Back to the Future is Donald Trump?

That was this whole.

Oh, I've seen that. I've seen that.

It was really interesting. He has a lot of he has like hundreds of posts showing his reasons for why he thinks it's so, and I think he is. He goes on the same assumption that Trump's a master magician and is able to go in and out of time somehow or anyway.

Yeah, well, no, there's that whole like the Baron Trump stuff with the time traveling yea, yeah, that point too.

That's that one's crazy.

Yeah.

The Elon there's the right, there's a book about a boy named Elon from the fifties who makes it to Mars. There's a lot of that stuff. Yeah, it's so.

Is there anything in the in the magical like magical practice that that like would tie into time travel, Like, is there any of that stuff where you can like jump timelines or.

Well, I do think in a sense that's kind of like what a magical experience might actually be, right, I think, I think I do think a Nocchio magic you might start getting it more in detail of like where you want to send yourself. But I think in a sense, yeah, sybolically, the way it could be looked at is that you're going back to the form before you ended up into the flesh.

So technically, if I'm going back.

To the spirit world, I'm kind of going back in time right before I can aim here, and then when I come back, I guess i'd bean technically, you know, when the magician returns, I technically went from the past to the future.

Now back used to be back from the future, you know whatever.

So I even think like that whole thing, it was very weird. You gotta go eighty eight miles per hour. Yeah, you know, I think like that thing and you know, electricity as you needed.

Uh.

I do think, you know, Lightning the first one too. I do think it's just actually believed or not.

I think crossing the Abyss as a magician, when they cross the Abyss and come back, I technically think that that's what happened. Mm hmmm hmm.

You know, I think like he's on the Heroes, he's on the Hero's journey Martin.

Yeh, Marty, Yeah, yeah, yeah, it's just kind of.

I mean, he even has even like I would say I always say, I think that's like kind of you getting the cabalistic trait of life. You know, I think the Hero's journey's kind of like Toth and he starts on the sphere eight He has an orange sphere in that movie. The kid's got a fucking orange life jacker out.

Yeah. Yeah, yeah.

You know, if if you go, if you go look, if you go and look at the time when he's like walking across the street, you know how like the towns will have up like the little like white picket type fence with all these like little fucking signs on it that showing you things in the town, almost all of them, all of them or associated with or was started by Mason's.

Mhmm, go look at all those signs that are on that fucking thing too.

Yeah.

Very weirdy, Yeah, that's crazy.

And I was just we covered that, we could we covered that.

Uh, that ship even I think the date then they jump is like Ellis Ashmole's like birthday.

It was very weird. There's like even Freemason's and occultest like dates of their birthdays that match up with like the ship that they did in that movie.

So you said Eli s Ashmole, Yeah, Elis Ashmole.

Not super.

Yeah, but that that's who brought John D's workings to the Hermetic Golden Order, isn't it. That's how Yeah, that's who had John D's work.

Yeah.

So who did you when you guys did that? Did you look into like, I I don't even know who wrote Back to the Future. I've seen it a bunch of times. But did you get into that at all or just into the symbolisms?

There was something to do with the dates are do you know what? I think it might have been with the Elliott Ashmole. I could be wrong.

It was Uh. I think the date on doc on Doc's house not to date his address.

It was.

It was something weird where like, yeah, there was a there was a lot of shit with him too, that's very Uh. Could you know a lot of cold symbolism around him.

Oh, are you looking it up now? I was seeing who wrote it? Uh, Robert ze Mechus and Bob Gail. Yeah, that would have been a good idea to actually look at the people who wrote it. I'd never even thought of that, Yeah, both of both Bob's Yeah. Interesting.

Yeah. And so that's like things like because it's the more I we look into this, the more you see it kind of everywhere, and once you start seeing it, you see it more and more and more. So is this something where you think it was intentionally written or somehow something was speaking through the person writing it.

No, I think that actually that whole movie was just like this is the way I'm gonna put I think a lot of movies like this are actually done a lot of like things on TV. It's just a way of me, Uh, I guess making an imitation for art out of my experience. Yeah, it's as came back. I'm gonna make some fucking drawn out movie about it now.

Yeah, well that's a pair like like so Salvador Dolly said that all of his paintings were were just images that so he would like portal jump and when he went through the portals, that's what he saw, and when he came back, the only way to like anchor himself back in this world was to paint what he saw, otherwise he'd be forever trapped in that world. Yeah, so there could be a bit of that right where it's like you have to put it out, you don't really have a choice. Oh that's what yo, That's why I

Huh what I was? I was, and this was just the outlet I chose. I really can't row pain. So I was fucked on this so like I could run my mouth real good.

I need to take a quick, quick two minute break, okay, alright, better, yeah much better, Sorry about that, hold it any longer.

I'm lucky at it.

When I have a bunch of people on the show, I could do that and I have to do anything. I just shut my shirt off, go piss and come back. It doesn't matter if somebody else just talking. That's why I got swivel chairs, man, you just swivel through swivel.

I was trying for a bit and the hock to quick hack to quick button while I was taking a piss, So yeah, there you go.

Yeah, well I while you were out, we were kind of just talking about uh, Aleister Crowley being sort of like a gatekeeper for all of it and and not really like yeah, and like Nick was saying basically like there should be more not as much should be kept secret, right, that's basically what.

Ye a little bit more disclosure of like what magic might be, or a little bit more of a warning if it is what I think it is from my experience. Yeah, I think, like, you know, at least like maybe start telling people like really better make sure you're mentally fit.

For this, know something like that.

I don't know, just like you should have a little bit more of like take it a little bit more serious, so I really have you know, they think that, you know, I don't know, they get a fucking raise at their job, like that's magic.

It's like, I don't know, I just mean the ideas of what magic is and like what happens if you just happen to have that experience when they're just gonna be like, holy fuck, what the fuck was that? Yeah, yeah, there's a difference between that and.

It was magic was so fucking minimal.

Yeah, well the whole It's trendy right now to like manifest shit right Like it's like, oh, I manifested my new house, So I manifested this, and it's like, well, very well, you know you could have, but you also like worked your job and saved a hundred grand.

Yeah.

It's like even for me when I had that experience, I was like, this is not what I thought I

It's almost start taking these ideas with these thoughts that were previously in my head, they get twisted and put together in a puzzle. I'm like, oh, that's how that makes sense with that how that connects.

As crazy as it sounds, that happens every time, So not even have like voice even telling you things or like it's like a visions of like stuff coming together and making sense, and it's like it could be hard on somebody.

So what's your process for like integrating this after Like do you do you journal it after and then review it in a different headspace or like how do what's your tips for kind of making sense of all of it?

Yeah, I guess yeah, I journaling I think could help maybe even like I see this is so interesting, and I'm just like because I've thought of, like, oh, is this where the channeling comes into. Because there's a good chance that like even after this, you may not be able to even write fast as you're fucking as as fast as your as you're thinking.

Sometimes people might have that problem just texting. You know what I'm saying, You start skipping letters because you're texting whatever as a voice recorder or somebody else there to hear what you have to say and can you know, write it down? Or whatever somehow record it that might be interesting, which again is something that we've just said before,

One thing that I find is interesting.

I've always seen Roses in my images before I crossed the Abyss, So I questioned the whole roase thing anyway to a certain extent.

But I mean, you know, again, he's.

I don't know, I think he could have possibly have had a magical experience. It was just telling her the images that he had when they happened. Yeah, she wrote that with your personal experience, like you said that most of your well all of you see, I think you said all of yours were positive. Was there any anything ever that was like not negative? But that was just like too much where you're just like, yeah, not fucking yet, not yet. Yeah, it was a time, And I don't

Happened a lot when the when when the thing starts up, there's just a certain series of things that happens. And right before I get to the end, at one point, like I'll and there's always this eclipse that's like there. That's why it's in my art and my logo stuff all the time. This eclipse is there and it looks very much like the the one big logo that I have, like my YouTube and ship where you have like the movie reels coming out of the eclipse that's I had.

Stylized it like that.

Those normally wouldn't be like movie reels, but I would look like I have an eclipse. It will look like those those cells of like you know on the movie reels would be just like windows in the blackness that

And it starts to change after that, and I would just normally go with that and follow that.

But one time I was just like, I don't know what it was. I just had this thought of, like, well, what's in these things? And like even when I thought that, my vision of the way I was looking at the situation even changed.

It's almost like I turned sideways. Now my body's not there, it's just my way I'm looking at things. And I looked into one and to me, it was like, you know, either that's like Arizona or that's like post nuclear fallout, and I was like I don't want to find out

Huh, once you're no longer part of all the connectedness and it's just a micro thing, not a macro thing.

Yeah, yeah, that's what I believe.

Yeah, yeah, you separate yourself as soon as you think of self.

That totally makes sense.

Yeah, it's it's just interesting because it's not something, like I said, outside of psychedelics. It's not something I've ever like intentionally done, even like meditation. I'm it's I've alway kind of struggled with it, just like staying in that space for any lengthy period of time. But like I'm a musician and when I if I sit and just play guitar for an hour, I can get there. Like that's like it's there's a trance state that comes up.

When I first had these experiences, it was like right prior to COVID and I had probably stopped smoking weed for about fifteen years, and when COVID came.

I was like, yo, for me to deal with society and people right now, I gotta straight.

I know this sounds crazy.

I started smoking we because of COVID to deal with society, so I had already had these experiences. Now, since I've had those experiences and started the podcast, I have brought myself again. Like I said, there'll be like a series of visions and things that happen. I can bring myself very close to the edge before it blasts off and kind of just hang out there, and I do feel I get some benefit from that. I've never really blasted off and crushed over in a few years.

But uh.

So, basically what I'm saying is that, like I really haven't had the experience with using drugs per se, like I've smoked weed now, but I haven't taken myself that far. I could say from the first time it ever happened to me, it's always been very easy to get myself back into that visual space with the eclipse and everything going on.

So I can't even say like the drugs is gonna.

Help it go any faster, because it's it's already sped up since the tough to explain, but it's already a very easy thing for me to get to. I don't know if I'm want or whatever, but.

I don't know if the drugs can help. There are times I actually this is interesting. There has been times that I forgot about this. There has been times just on Indiga.

I don't know.

Some people sometimes they'll say if they smoke too much of that they feel like they're dying, or like like are to die.

That is very close to a feeling.

There was a feeling that when I'm having right before I blast off, I even think like you still have this moment of fear because it is an uncomfortable feeling that you could look like it like I can see now like it's very close to the same feeling.

But for some reason it just never really affected me.

It was just I don't know, but like I have noticed since now having a magical experience and that feeling that happens like right before you go. And there was times one time after the last time I did it, I didn't feel right and I kept on feeling like I was actually.

Like going back out without warning to.

Like I was feeling the same feelings that would happen when I was leaving my body. The first time, it felt like it was happening when I'm trying not to and that feeling from smoking too much indigo was very close.

To that where you're like stuck in the head and you're like, oh fuck, am I like broken or my fucking dawning.

It was almost very I was like, fuck, man, I was like, oh, it was almost a magical fucking experience right there. It did bring back like I was like, oh, fuck, this is almost a familiar feeling. Yeah, yeah, that's because that is one feeling. I will say that feeling that there's another thing that I do think, like what I'm saying is possibly real. Is that those feelings that I've had when I do think I possibly might be leaving my body having a magical experience. I have never felt

No, it is. It is. I could even say, like one of the reasons why I stopped is I'll be honest, it was fucking addictive. I never felt so alive before in my life. I think I died because you feel throughout your whole body and it's just like whoa, Yeah, it's definitely a feeling I've never felt before, so I'm not getting confused with something else. That's when yeah, yeah, all right, cool.

So like when the we kind of got me close to that, I was like, whoa, like that quote. My attention was close to a familiar feeling. Yeah, yeah, note the strain.

And you know, you know what the crazy thing is.

It's like you kind of like and after knowing that, it's like I kind of almost want to push myself to because that feeling is addictive because I know it'll be all right, you know what I'm saying, But in that moment, you're like, fuck, why did.

I do that?

It smoked too?

Yeah? Not for sure, for sure. Yeah, No, I just always like because I've been toying around with the idea of like I have books on on sigil magic, and I have books on on the stuff.

And I read I never yourself believe it or not.

I think if you said sigil magic the right way, I honestly think you're just reprogramming your own brain.

Right.

It's almost like I really think the sigil magic is more for the user on you to themselves, and then trying to contact and do things to other people. Yeah, and so my job doesn't like me, so you know, I wanted to piss razor blades next week.

But if anything, that sigil is probably like an image of hate that you just burnt into your head for another person. You really shouldn't have any power you. Yeah, that's a lot of the things with black magic. I hate to say it is.

I actually think the practitioner is fucking themselves more so you're doing is feeding hate.

Yeah, getting caught that loop.

Think about it that you spent this whole time to do a ritual on a motherfucker's rented space in your head over something. Who's a real magician now, who's got free fucking space.

Being rented in the head? You, Well, I forgot. It's got you fucking this right now.

Yeah, that plays into the whole, like the TDS ship, right, like the Trump derangement syndrome stuff like he's just living rent free and so many people's heads the rain yo, yo, the people that hate him and the people that love them.

Yeah, both exactly. Both are spells.

That's even another thing I say too, And I really do mean this, And I always use Kanye West as kind of an example where I'm Trump nails it too, you know, but Kanye West, I think, is a better example. You just gotta be no, it doesn't matter what the fuck comes out of him mouth sometimes, Like I think Kanye West has the bulls to embarrass himself or maybe say something of somewhat value, But I think he's cool with just looking like a fucking retat to make sure

We have that we know that he did came from the government, you know, fucking SCI files.

So it's interesting how we don't trust the government until they drop a CIA files that we can cover on our podcast to get clicks.

Yeah. Yeah, it's fucking weird on that because I even at one point stop covering shit from the CIA files because I'm like, how do I know they don't want me to this? Yeah, So I believe even more when they start hosting podcasts right, which Sean Ryan and those Well, what I'm what I'm getting at too, is that because.

I'm gonna keep it straight and we're gonna keep it real because of the supposed things that we now know of that that guy did, end podcasters, he will always remain a god anyway because people are gonna repeat his name over and over and over and over. So I mean the same thing with Croley. Because of people repeating his name so much, he'll remain No. Stop saying his fucking name, nobody will remember.

Yeah, stop talking about Mail and Moloch, and maybe things won't hold any more power. The only hold power if you know who the fuck they are. Put it this way, somebody can't pick as some weird sexual agenda unless somebody gives them the fucking idea to choose it. Yeah, yeah, yeah, I know for sure. Yeah, I mean it breaks down even it doesn't like outside of a magical sense, just

While you're still coming here because you were told that if you don't, you'll fuck up, and you believe it.

Yeah. Yeah.

And the the anger thing I think you get it rewires your brain too, if you're constantly getting a disease.

Yeah, yeah, it.

Rewires your brain and then you create it more.

And yeah, yo, think about that, like I could know. I'll say for myself, anger and fear. There were times when I feel that, like when I'm angry or fearful, like if it's really bad, I literally feel.

An emotion run through my body.

Mmhm, that's serious. That should like I don't know if we as humans normally look at that. I add, and I'm like, as a magician, I'm like, what's going on? Then, like that feeling is creating, is roborating something throughout my whole body.

I just take a look at that.

Well, yeah, it gets your heart going right, gets your.

Changes, you start sweating people, you know, just all these changes within a.

Body that by thinking, yeah, there's a total physiological yeah exactly, do it right, a total response to it.

It's it's it's interesting too how that stuff manifests in like different shockers as well, like We've had this conversation before where it's like, if you feel if you're stuck in survival mode and you're feeling like scared and anxious all the time, from a survival standpoint, like you're gonna have like hip issues, you're gonna have leg issues, You're gonna have shit like that. If you're feeling like you

Things like that sore. Next, then people who have had eggs.

Because of stress. Yep, yeah, yeah, no, for sure, there's a I don't know if you've literally there's a total fucking skin response. If you looked into German new medicine at all, yo, that shit seems to be popping out with some crazy stuff lately.

Yeah, crazy, like like real, like wow, like that's interesting. My wife's big into researching that right now.

And every time I'm like, oh, on a headache or all my fucking back hurt, She's like, well, it's probably because of this and to heal your inner child.

All right, a new fucking pillow.

But what goes on with like relationships or just like certain things with people, how much they affect each other?

Yeah, too, with certain studies they've been doing.

Yeah, you gotta find it out.

Like a lot of times, you know, women will take all the guy fell asleep on me. It's because there's nervous systems, like I'm safe, I can relax now. It's really like that. You know, it may not be the guy's distiny.

He's just actually so comfortable they fell asleep.

Same thing with a girlfriend, you know.

It's like, I don't know, it's just there's a study I noticed though, butau I found very interesting. Yeah yeah, man, it's uh, I mean like we're we're magical beings, right, Like there's there's so much more to it than influence.

That's why another thing. I just find that so crazy that the influence of another person mm hmm can just have that effect on someone. I mean it's it could be a great thing, or a beautiful thing, or a horrible thing.

Mm hmmmm. Well that yeah, I mean back to the pet thing, right, Like it's it's like hard to be in a bad mood around a dog, right, Like it's it's an energetic thing, right, Yeah, yeah, it's an it's a total energetic well love you forever, right, you know what I'm saying. So it's like that's another reason so loyalty that you think about you.

And you're close to them, you know. Yeah, I can literally feel what my dog like, I know what my dog deeds or wants just from feel offers.

Oh yeah, is that wild?

Just the relationship between humans and dogs, how well, Like you could just understand each other.

Just by looking at me. I know exactly what it is she wants.

And then they exactly what the you're risking. Yeah, fucking bizarre.

She usually knows my mood before I know my mood. I'm not the best morning person. Wake up in the morning and someone's fifty to fifty and she'll look at me and I almost know I'm going to be it's going to be a good day from how she is.

Yeah.

Yeah, they're quite amazing animals.

That's like again, like all the more reason to like practice this stuff and like like tune it in a little more, right, because it's it's a defense mechanism too. You walk into a room with shady people, and if you're tuned into that and you can feel it, you know to get the fuck out right. Like, I can't tell you how many situations I've gotten out of that would have turned really really bad. And a couple cases like not gone to parties where like people have died and things like that, like.

More not worried about so much other shit. You'll pick up on stuff like that.

Yeah, the biggest, the most relevant example I can think of is that when my band was on tour one time, we were played the show with this other band and they were like, oh, yeah, there's this big party afterwards, come to the party whatever we're humming haunt about him. We usually would go, and there are a couple of us that were just like some feels off, man, Like, I don't know, we should let's just like go to the hotel or whatever instead, Let's just take it easy tonight.

And it like yeah, oh good ship.

Yeah, and need a mental It was a mental birth too, wasn't it.

Yeah, yeah, caused it. He just snapped and yeah we were we were supposed to be at that party and the guy that the guy that ended up dying was the guy that invited us to the party.

So crazy crazy Yeah.

Yeah, So I mean that's a that's a dark spin on it, but I mean it works both watching them, like what, that's fucking nuts. Yeah, yeah, for sure. So I think I think it's good to be in tune with those forces, you know, and.

You definitely notice all the synchronicities a lot more when you.

Are Yeah yeah, Chris no Oles talks about that a lot too, where it's like you start, when you start noticing synchronicities, they just pop up more and more and more. Oh yeah, you know. It's yeah, you know, I've not I hate that it happens, and I'm not even fucking trying to grift over it. It's so fucking cheesy. But like other people have even noticed it too. I know, I get ninety three constantly, and my shit, it's like start a ball to me too much, like what the fuck?

Yeah, like especially like you know, traveling come that in the number seventeen constant really yeah, just kind of.

Weird something something those two numbers. I thought those are my hockey numbers really, nine seventeen and ninety three seventeen for most of my most of my life and then ninety three the last little bit.

I've always got.

Okay, I'm not chosen by me either of them.

Yeah, I didn't think.

So I've gotten thirty three like before and before I knew any of this stuff all the time, and like I've been like there's always there's always been like Freemasons in my inner circle kind of thing, so like just between family and stuff too. So it's like it's just odd, that's right. Yeah, see that's even just like I don't know sometimes like.

So I don't know if you guys believe in like you know, reincarnation or whatever. Like sometimes I even wonder, like, all right, let's say you're not a Mason, but somehow, like that thirty three needed to get thrown on you somehow, like I don't know, you know.

What I'm saying.

With a good story being retold but just in a different way, yeah, or someone redoing it over again but just a different timeline or you know, I don't know, I look at it like that. Sometimes I wonder, Yeah, it's weird, yeah, like that like.

You know, I don't know, or a code to like lead you down a certain path or like something right, like not necessarily to become a freemason.

But maybe it's just the.

Research because like all right to thirty three, regardless that freemason's high jacked, it probably has an overall meeting that any.

Occults would understand. Yeah, I'm saying that's another thing too.

Sometimes certain orders, there are things I think are kind of just blanket, blanket statements that they just stylized in that way, and a lot of people to take them like so personal or it's just like no, they're all saying the same shit just in a different way.

Yeah, I do think that happens a lot for sure. For sure.

Yeah, the the number things really freaked me out, Like all the Charlie Kurk I know, not trying to bring up the Charlie Kirk thing again purposely, but all the Charlie Kirk numerology with that Snake Eyes movie and like that stuff makes me not want to look at any of this for a while.

It just it just does.

That's my initial reaction where I'm like, this is too weird, Like.

Yeah, I think as you saw, wondering, like what the fuck's really going on here again, like is it all really orchestrated or is there some weird numerical fucking trail with just again shit happening. So it's like you almost don't want to kind of find both to be true or either one you know what I'm saying, one of those well, yeah, yeah, because either one of those is just fucking bizarre and weird.

Yeah yeah, or or we just live in a computer simulation too. Yeah.

Yeah, No matter what, it's kind of a shitty fucking ending. Yeah, yeah, for sure.

Huh Yeah. I don't know, man, though it's it's it's a weird, weird world certainly is I don't know if it's gonna Like do you think with people becoming more aware of the stuff that they're that their spells are having a harder time, Like are they having a harder time being successful with them?

Well, I think more people sort to understand magic, and I think that will be a problem. That'll be a problem, yeah, because there'll be more people I think that are going to use it for better than moors m you know, the people, more people who understand the the better side

Yeah, you know, the truth. Yeah, because there are a lot of occultists out there that don't think what's going on is great. You know, myself excluded, but there's plenty of people that are like actually out there like that. I even know what podcasts that are talking about things because they want to educate people don't want to be dumbed down, you know, they want them to know the truth.

Yeah, she wanted shit isn't old just Dixon demons. There's some real deep shit.

Yeah. Yeah, well it's it's it's a potency game too, right, So it's like it's almost like, you know, the bad guys don't the reason they keep it secret is because they don't want people doing good with it, right, So if if there's more people doing good and it catches on, that technically should increase the potency of the good magic, that would then counter the dark magic.

Right, Because if everybody had a magical experience, I would think probably about ninety five percent of those people are going to also open up their eyes with some sort of gift that they now have and something that I think they can actually be helpful.

To the human race.

Yeah, yeah, you know, they could actually like create with their hands.

Yeah.

I just say because I just think it's you know, I would even say that to like a lot of the musicians. Why they're so good at what they do is because they fuck with magic.

Just yeah, they just explore their gifts instead of hide them away. Yeah, or they found them through that, you know. Or again, like I was like saying before, like why I start podcasting, they get out of my own head, motherfucker.

Picked up the guitar and stayed playing if for so long.

That's became amazing, you know what I'm It could be a mixture of a lot of different things. Yeah, but I do think magic is very huge on I mean, all these Renaissance artists.

Those are all people I think I had those experiences. Yeah, that's why they painted those beautiful things. That's why they sculpted those beautiful things.

They're obsessed with the experience that they had and they want to show it somehow, the beauty of it m express it somehow.

Yeah, I think that's. Yeah, that's awesome. That's I'm in agreeance with that. It's a nice positive way to look at it too.

I'm unfortunately, I think I'm a little too negative sometimes in my first way of thinking would be that too many people would use it for bad. But it's nice to hear, Oh you two at least think that it it would be used. I would want it to be used for good. I think I'm just too pessimistic sometimes about the state of the world too, and just people that I know and whatever, right to think that some people,

Oh yeah, no, I definitely think so. I definitely thin And.

You think it would because it would be because people's eyes would be opened up to their true calling, right if they.

Know is their will. Until they have that experience. Yeah.

Yeah, and I guarantee you part of their will is going to be somewhat associated with spreading God's word, as cheesy as that sounds, or your experience with God is probably somewhere going to be in there.

With what your will is. This is my opinion, because because you're going to be like I was blessed with this, I must tell others about it and then they can have this experience. If you're a good hunted person, yeah, it's going to be part of your message. It's like, yo, you got to check this out boy, you know.

And the whole thing is is that during for this experience.

It has made my idea of God ten times more beautiful and personal than it never was before. Yeah, so it has actually made me a much more spiritual person. And yeah, crazy to say it. I would never think, like fifteen years ago, I would be like, you know, my experience with God or having another experience with God is like what I think about eighty percent of the day. It's fucking nuts. I mean, if you're a magician, that's what a lot of your thoughts should be about.

Yeah. Cool, Yeah, no, that's awesome, man. I think, uh, I think maybe that's a nice positive way to wrap it up kind of thing. If yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, well yeah, man, I really appreciate you jumping on to this episode. It was a lot of fun.

No, thanks so much, man.

No, I had a great time with you guys, and we definitely got to get you on for the removing So yeah, yeah for sure. Hey, but before, I was listening to an episode a little while ago, and you had one of the guys on the Incult Rejects was from Edmonton, Alberta. Did you do you remember TJ?

Yeah, it might have been TJ.

It sounds familiar.

Okay, your Gin might have been Gin.

I don't know, okay, and either way, yeah, it's super important. I just I grew up in Edmonton, So I was like, and you don't hear you know. I was like, oh shit, what are the chances that someone from my hometown is on?

Oh yeah, no, no, no, yeah, that that that had to oh ship, you know, that had to have been TJ.

Yeah.

Jin is an hour ahead of me, okay, yeah, and the other TJ is on that's right, he was three hours behind me, so he's got to be over by you. Yeah, that's wild. Yeah, he's a Jamatri dude though we used to have on the show a lot. Oh nice you Contemporary Problems is his name, that's his podcast too, Okay, yeah, look check him out. Yeah yeah, all contact from you and reach out.

Oh yo, great to have on your show.

If you're into that ship, that tad will blow your mind with fucking numbers and stuff. We love.

I'd love to do a Jabatry episode.

Yeah, me too. Confuses the ship out of me.

But yeah, but.

With it all the time cool man. Well yeah, no, thanks again, this was a lot of fun. Well we'll we'll definitely do it again. And uh happy to be part of this podcast community that we've we've jumped into. Everyone's been awesome so far, so good. Yeah yeah, I give give the people one last ear full of where they can.

Find you and closing thoughts.

Yeah, I guess like I said before, when it comes to magic, my my, my experience, it's a little bit more than what people think it is.

Uh again, I want to focus on the whole eyeball. It just just because people don't really don't talk about this, the whole eyeball and brain symbolism and the experience of death when it comes, you know, to magic symbolism and a cult symbolism. And for the podcast, it's on bit shoot, Brumble YouTube, all major podcasts, and we do have I totally forgot before a cult research institute dot org.

That's our website. It has tons if you're into reading, tons and tons of stuff to read, like there's some shows that have been put to you know form where you could read it on the on the site, So definitely check that out.

It's all free, so and it's got a bunch of people from the show and people who aren't on the show that have added or contributed to certain topics. So yeah, check that out. Thank you, Thank you, guys. I actually that was a blast. It was really great questions and I had a really good.

Time right on.

Awesome.

Yeah, that's that's good. That's what we like to hear. Yeah. Yeah, everyone out there, go same thing. Subscribe, like we're on all the stuff. I just begrudgingly put everything up on YouTube. I didn't want to do that, but here we are, so I go for it.

You know, there's people people watch it, you know what I'm saying.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, for sure, for sure, Mike do your thing.

Do they think?

All?

Right?

From the Land of the high season, the tall trees. I'm Mike, I'm Andrew. Have a great night. Catch you next time.