You see, something's going to happen. What, What's gonna happen?
What? My guest today is someone I've spoken with at length before. He's very knowledgeable, he's a fun guy to be around. He's the host of the Occult Rejects podcast. Nick. Thanks for coming on.
Man, Thank you, thank you very much. I appreciate it. Yeah.
Yeah, we were getting a little rolly there in the uh before I hit record. I wanted to say something about a queeno before we move off of that real quick. This is what I've heard, and you can tell me if this is true or not. But I heard that a Quino went to the castle of Vivelsburg where him that was Himmler's castle, Darren Boar, and did it did like a stay over there.
I'm telling you, honest with you, is probably a lot about that guy I've never looked into before. Yeah, sure, sure, things that have come up with like psyops and like the Franklin.
Stan Well yeah, I mean especially the Syop thing, because I think he last. It's been a while since I looked into him. But one of the things that I came across was, you know, he was very very much involved with government and military and he was in a program called a siop. They actually used the word syop in the program, and I don't remember anything else about it, but I thought that was crazy. What a character though.
I mean, I just I'm gonna look into it. I'm pretty sure that that was an accurate source about the Vivelsburg Castle. If that's true, that's very crazy because that was Himmler's castle. Himmler started the like he had a he had like a knockoff nights temp far thing going on there with the s s Oh was.
That the big castle where he did have like all those he had that thing on the floor and he had yeah all that, Okay, yeah, I didn't actually know the specific name to that.
Yeah. So so he had a black son on the floor symbol, and apparently a queno went in there and was doing something and he he I think that he got some ideas from the Nazis' concept of the black Sun and was working with something like that, like like a like an inner Earth energy kind of a thing.
Maybe, But I would say like even from like you know, because we're talking about I had a guest on that was from the table head and from even a lot of the stuff that I got from them. They they he at least and he was friends with a Queeno. Seemed to be very much into mathematics. Actually, so I'm wondering if there's anything with just the design itself and
the mathematics. Yeah, yeah, yeah, I'm not trying to give them credit on anything, but I mean they are The guy that was on my show was the obviously educated. He wasn't fucking stupid. Just say, yeah, so so.
You had a guy on he was or he is in the temple I set a quino started that, and this guy was very versed in math or what about sacred geometry?
Well, yeah, that's what I mean. Yeah, because like at one point, like the jin on the show asked him a question that was like from one of his friends. Like he told one of his friends he was going on the show with this guy, and he's like, oh my god, you gotta ask him this question because he knew who he was and he asked him. I couldn't remember what it was, but he spent about twenty minutes trying to like basically explaining like the sigil. I was like, you know that logo, and I was like what, I
got lost. At one point, I was like you guys lost me. Fuck yeah, that was like any Hey, I'm not giving the guy like I think I just whatever he's I don't think he's.
Mm hmmm hm. When you were and I don't know how much you like to go into this topic, so you know, just feel free to answer it however you want or not answer at all. But like I know that you were in an order at one point.
Yep, you can ask anything you want, okay, So yeah, nothing, nothing is nothing?
Yeah, okay, cool? Awesome, man? So what order were you in? And what I was getting at is like, did how much did that come into play for you? Like shapes, sigils, maybe even math? How much of that kind of stuff did you work with?
I mean again, like I would say, these places place suggests you to do things. It's not like my experience at the beginning, at least the first you know, within the first four degrees, I would assume none of them really kind of force you to learn anything, but they're suggested. But my practice sigils, yes, shapes, yes, what was the other? Oh, Jamatria and math I got into later on Because I'll be totally honest with you, at the beginning, it was
just a little too intimidating. I really wasn't sure what the hell it was all about. I wasn't really into the Kabbala as much like the first probably like a year or so, maybe a year and a half of getting into magic. But once I did, I started to get a little bit more of the idea of Jamatria, and then I started, you know, math was definitely a
part of it. Even when he got into the Kabbala and all the numbered spheres and all that stuff, you start realizing, you know, the for a reason numbers are important.
Yeah, is Hebrew coming to play there?
Oh yeah, yeah, for sure, for sure. Even like some of the rituals that are suggested to do in these orders, in that most ceremonial magicians will use, like the pentagram and the hexagram ritual, they will have some Hebrew in them. The star Ruby that Alista Crowley wrote, which a lot of Thalamite so Oto people will use. People are even into his stuff. That's a Greek you know, So let's say, you know, you're actually using like different languages.
I've always seen Hebrew as ay, almost like a very numerical, very mathematical kind of a language.
I think, yeah, yeah.
I mean they even kind of have some of the Hebrew figures even look kind of like numbers in a way, like with the angles and stuff, and like just the way they're like formed and everything. And I had this guy on who was breaking down. He was looking for mathematical code within the Torah, and so you know, I think I think what he was really looking for was like some sort of a Bible code, But he went to the Torah instances because the code was showing up big time because of the Hebrew.
Yeah, I probably there too.
Yeah, and English do and and the Hebrew figures. This is what he was explaining to me. They had multiple meanings, almost like a hieroglyph.
Would yes, they do. They do, Yeah, like a ox back of your head, open hand, closed hand, gold yeah, crazy, razy, Yeah, they have multiple meanings to him, and they were they were designed like that from inception. Most most believe it or not, most languages, if you were to look into it, most languages that inception are actually created with the numerical system together. They are actually tied numerically. Each letter has a numerical value. I mean, yeah, what is alpha numeric system?
Oh yeah, yeah, Yeah. There was a guy that I was looking into briefly. I don't remember his name right now, but he wrote a book about the magic of runes, the Nordic Runes that seemed to be very numerica as well.
What's that even flowers?
Maybe no, I don't think so. This guy was This guy was from like the seventeen hundreds or something.
I think, oh okay.
Way back, old old school stuff. He was like I found him because I was looking into like Tycho bra and uh oh okay yeah, and uh Kelpius, Johannis Kelpius. Yes, yes, And there was some guy that was running with them who was kind of a part of their crew I think, who got really into the ruins and he wrote a book like he just dedicated a big chunk of his life to like looking into the magical side of the rooms. I'll try to find it later and give you the name if you're interested.
Those guys were real big into if I remember correctly, kind of like out of space.
Right, yeah, yeah, yeah, they were early. They were early in that field.
Like whoa, yeah, I haven't had impressive dude.
There's a couple of those guys that are very interesting because it's like you can see where society takes these like shifts. It's like, okay, where we had two guys at one point alive together with Thomas Addison had and Nikola Tesla, and you can see where the powers that be decided to use the tech and go with like Edison. But if we would have went with Tesla, we'd probably be living in a different society right now. We'd be our approach to like energy and everything would be totally
different and resources and everything. And I think it's the same like Tycho and some of those guys, Like I think they were at like this pivotal point in history and their work kind of got left behind and they you know, it's like society went with another version of the space concept and what we think about it with that, I'd love to do something more on him because he I was just kind of browsing him, man, you know, I was looking more into Entakelpias and I found Tycho
Braw But all those guys are fascinating.
These are one interesting thing though, when he start looking into those people and even the people who have set the stage of like you know, at first we thought we were the son of the universe. Then we thought the son was the son of the Universe. Yeah, well those motherfuckers were cultists.
Yeah, well we.
Have a cultists who are telling us what's in disguies. Yeah yeah, think about it. And then we got asked to doing it now, which you know, pretty much the same shit.
And then yeah, and then you've got guys who were This is one of the craziest things that I've come across, is like the esoteric Christians who nobody talks about.
Well, that was a big thing, like even within the Catholic Church. I was gonna even say this before, because I do think there might be something there if you're still looking like around I think like between like the fifteen and seventeen hundreds, like certain people that are well known, like within the Catholic Church, even Jesuit priests, they started incorporating the Kabbala into the Bible to try to understand the better, and supposedly they started getting like breakthroughs, you know,
like understanding. So there must be something even with that. I do wonder, you know, when you even have people in the Catholic Church even being like paying mine tobala to understand the Bible more.
Sure, Yeah, yeah, sure. I had a guy on recently and we were talking about how in the Book of Proverbs, I think Solomon wrote that, and he's talking about he keeps talking about wisdom, right, but like wisdom with like a capital W. He's talking about wisdom. He's personifying wisdom as if it's an entity or a person or a personality.
And we were talking about we were talking about, like what if because the Gnastics said wisdom, they call wisdom sophia, right, So we were talking about we were trying to figure out is the Bible in Proverbs or is Solomon alluding to like a spirit or an entity here when he's
talking about wisdom. And the more I looked into it, the more I kept seeing that the Uhanna had to go to the Kabbala to find the answers for that, because there's I've got a thing in my phone where I went and I found the Kabbala had all this extra information on that, Like I'm trying to remember the terms in there, like world tree stuff. It's just crazy stuff. It was over my head.
I feel like when you take Catholicism and try mixing like the Kabala into and you actually kind of berth out in a sense almost like uh narcissism. M hm, because you start like well her medicabala that okay, Yeah, because you can start almost attributing like certain characters for certain roles depending on how like what's it easier for
you to understand or whatever, So I have to explain. Yeah, yeah, you start getting like almost like kind of like a cult Christian Catholicism almost extent when it comes to nacissism.
Well, how many so you were working Hebrew and.
I'm still big into that now, and oh yeah.
Yeah, I've used Hebrew Jamatria before. I don't know, you know, I'm I'm where I am with Jamatria. I think it's interesting, but I'd like to know more about how it works, like like how what's the technology behind your matria? You know, it's like, I know there's now we have it in like a software form where you can just get online and punch in numbers and get phrases back. But what's like the technology behind that? You know?
Only I think if it's really being used a lot, maybe cipher's or it's just to replace a word with something that has the same value to it. Yeah, but like ciphers are kind of huge. I think it also
just does help, like believe it or not. I think like when you do actually see other words that equal the same value, you know how Like they can say like a symbol has like seven meanings to it, Like sometimes I do think like, yeah, that's one of them, and like some somewhere in there you'll find a match that I think you'll be like, all right, that actually
fits in with everything. It's not to explained, but like there's evening that I've noticed, like with ocultism, certain things that like you'll just start getting eyeparts sense almost, Like I do think that that is a part. I mean when the polymaths we're into occultism, they included physiology into the understanding of it. So you stop wondering, like is that part of it too?
Yeah, it all seems to be connected. It all seems to be connected.
That's really I'm bigging to myself. Is actually trying to leak the eyes on the brain and like a cult symbolism within the body. Yeah.
Yeah, it's almost like we have a physical connection. I'll just use that word again, like a physical connection to all this stuff. Like I don't know, what do you think, man, Like, do you think that we are do you think there's another realm like right up next to ours, or multiple realms and we like interact with that.
It could be possible. Yeah, I think that at some point, like when you have a magical experience, like I think I've told you that, you know, it's more that's like to me practicing real magic, I do think you're kind of like separating your soul from your body, and like if you do do something to that extent, you're not like in this reality anymore the way you see it, because you're not in the flesh like it's it's just different. So I do think magic like you're already kind of
throwing yourself into another reality. And I have heard other people of which I think in Nokia magic maybe is like kind of like picking times and places that you want to go to certain visions that I've heard other people see that like almost gives you like an idea that there's options of like choices or times that you can go, like visions like oh, I'll go there, that
looks interesting, I'll go to that one. It's almost like windows are doors, And I do think that those are options of places to go almost like oh, if you ever watched noway you know how those motherfuckers are. Like, I do think as silly as that sounds, I'm not saying I've done it or even want to entertain it, because I probably don't, but I do think that's possible.
Yeah, Yeah, I've heard you talk about crossing the Abyss and we can get into that if you want to tell all that today, you can. But that's why I asked you about the realms thing, because I'm trying to I'm trying to comprehend what that means, like what crossing the abyss means, because to me it and I could be wrong, but to me, it kind of sounds like stepping into like another realm. But maybe that's not the right terminology. I don't know.
Yeah, I for me like and I hate trying to explain like this because I don't want to try to make it sound like edgy or like dark or anything. But like I just like, I guess, like, if you can't experience death, what's after death? Unless you have experienced you know what I'm saying, And it's not going to be in physical form, It's going to be a completely different you know, you're in spirit, you know, I don't know, you know what I'm saying totally different. You're going somewhere else.
You're totally different on I guess rules of law, how reality is to be solid?
Okay, what about dimensions?
Instead of using there would probably be dimensions. I mean, it would probably be the easiest way to explain it. I mean, that's what it does. Seem like, it's just different dimensions.
I mean that that's certainly the term they're using with science today.
They really yeah, yeah, I can see that, making it a lot easier to say, yeah.
I mean, you know, I've got because I just did a big thing on because yeah, yeah, I just did a big thing on decoding CERN. I did a huge occult decode on CURN recently, and I got all that stuff like swirling around in my head. But I was looking into like articles and I was, I was. I even got online and I saw like I was watching like talks that the physicists at CERN was giving, and they're all talking about dimensions like they're they're they admit
that they're tapping into another dimension. And and this guy, I'm certain the physicists was talking about how to create black holes and how that interacts with our dimensions. So that does seem to be the word they're using.
I think it's a it's a fitting word, for sure. It's just you know, when you say that, I just said, I don't want to sound too sci fi either. I hear it.
Yeah, yeah, I hear you. Man. I'm laughing because when you said that, I started thinking about what's his name who was who was doing magic with Parsons before he started the Church of Scientology, Hulbert Hobard because he would make things very.
I mean, I think I was writing sci fi books. Yeah, you already do what to do?
Yeah, but I think you're good, my friend. You're not You're not taking it that far.
I'm still confused on what the fuck it was. Yeah, so mm hmm, but h yeah, yeah, I would. I would just say I do think to an extent, I do think you do actually kind of it's a your death experience for sure. Put it that way. So, I mean, uh, and it was not what I thought magic was going to be about at all. I did not think that that was a part of it.
So what was a near death experience for you? Was it just okay? Was it like, did you have multiple near death experiences while you're practicing magic? Or did you have one crazy supernatural or whatever you want to call it, one one crazy experience were you.
I've probably, oh god, I don't know how many times, probably I don't know, six to seven times. I probably actually did it on purpose. Three times I did it in like a week. And then actually, I do think that kind of fucks you up if you do it
too too often. But I mean it's done through like meditation that you'll I do think that like when the magic happens, I do think you're actually like you're kind of slowing down your body and you're slipping out a little bit, And I do think you you click out for a little bit for a second and you go somewhere that is that here for sure. And then there's times where like now I haven't done that in a minute, I'll be totally honest with you, I'll take myself to
the edge, like whenever this happens. Now there's always a set of visuals and feelings that always come with it, Like I already always know like after this, it's like
you know, do it? I literally you know? And so I know, like if I start thinking of so, like you could take yourself out of it for me, so I'll take myself to the like the I guess to the ledge, and I do get benefits out of that with meditating, I do think, but I have that like gone that far, but uh yeah, I do honestly think that when you when you do that, even from the feelings that I've had and what goes on with the body and even the situation with that one time I
said it, I did it a couple of times within a week. I mean I actually was so physically uncomfortable, end up going to the hospital and I did have issues and it was like stuff that never reoccurred again. So that was even even like my eyes or even like one pupil was bigger than the other one for like weeks.
After doing this.
Yeah. Yeah, I've even posted on Twitter. Was years ago, like one time I brought myself really close to a meditated like that real close. It stopped and my pupils were fucked up. I even took a picture of him.
Yeah, I mean that sounds like you, like I said earlier, like it's almost like there's a physical connection with us and you know whatever we want to call that other dimension. It's like because that sounds like you stepped into another dimension and when you came back or came back into yourself into this one, like it messed with you physically.
Actually, I do think, I actually think in order to do what you're doing, I do think you may actually like burn shit up and you stuff in your body. As crazy as it sounds, like some.
Kind of a fuel, like a metaphysical feeling.
Yeah that or it's like the kind of all you're like, yeah, body runs on electricity. It kind of like you have to it back out, kind of like you kind of alternating current.
I guess, yeah, yeah, yeah, you know. While you're talking, like, I'm thinking about stuff I've read concerning Tibetan monks when they get super deep into meditation and and even remote viewers. I've heard some crazy stories like that, well that where they will like whatever it's called bio relocate or whatever, they'll they'll find. So Jock Valet has the story about his first time remote viewing with Ingo Swan or something.
They gave him coordinates and they sent him to like a top of a mountain somewhere like it was real cold, and he said he felt the cold, you know, and there was a snowy mountain peak and he actually went there for a minute or two and he and he it physically was shivering. That's what this kind of that's what this reminds me of, at least, I don't I'm not trying to like take your Oh.
I think astral projection is like real close to like the same. You know, yeah, my experience might be a little bit further, but I think actual projections like I would consider that magic too in a sense.
Yeah, that's what I was going. That's what I was gonna say, man, because I mean, you're.
I would even say, is that picking one of the windows? Okay, I don't know, you know, maybe that is Maybe that's maybe that's more advanced than what I've done. I have no idea.
Well, that's what Levey's kids were talking about. They talked about how they were taught to go into the astro realm.
There's you know what you haven't call Crusher that's okay, you should have it. But he's he does ship like that, and he's he's friends with a lot of what's his name, Carl Crush, call Crusher Okay, yeah, yeah, he's actually if you get in touch with him now like this, he's my boy and everything. But like people messing with He's kind of throw himself right into the lines. Then, Jesus, you know who these people are, right, He's getting involved
with people that are you know, claiming. I think I've actually worked with the government remote remote viewing.
Mm hmm.
To him, talk to him. He's a good dude, good dude, really nice guy. I have him on the show all the time. Talk to him about remote viewing.
Sure, yeah, I love I love remote And he does it himself too.
He does it himself too, And there's been certain things. I you know, I think he's legit. I'll just be honest. I think I think he could do it.
I think it's legit too.
I mean, he told me that was in my closet that he wouldn't have Like really, yeah, mother fucking man, that's fuck. It actually waited me the funk out tell you the truth. He did it like after a show bullshit, And he mentioned something about some ship close and I was like wow.
I mean, I've I've always thought that, I've always had the inclination that something real is happening with remote viewers. I knew a remote viewer as well, and they just they just don't They're not They don't be s dude, they don't make up stories like they're they're just like, you know, it is what it is, and we have these long standing government per like if it didn't work, they wouldn't have a twenty year remote viewing program. But we have documents to prove that they have.
I think this stuff is legit. And be honest, most of those people probably like you're saying and telling the truth. It's just the understand the way they're presenting it and telling you what's really going on, that's the fucked up problem.
Yeah.
Then I tell you that this is like magic or somebody somewhere and the government's making them be able to do this. They're actually pushing like occult principles onto this person. You know what I'm saying. It's like practically almost okay, ultra, if you're going to make somebody be able to do this, Yeah, that's my opinion, you know what I'm saying. They're not explaining like these are the side effects of having a magical experience, you know, and and death may be evolved
in that. That's my opinion. You know what I'm saying. That's the whole secret that they're leaving out my opinion part of it. But if you told people everybody they have a magical experience, you actually have to kind of have an experience like Jesus and die. And if they thought that everybody who actually literally practices magic and understands the occult, like people running the world, they do that constantly,
that's so fucking freaky. I don't think I think that would actually be one of the secrets they don't want people to know, because that actually sounds sick if you start thinking about it.
I've had this thought too.
Yeah, because if someone's willing to keep taking that chance knowing it may not come back, what do you think they think about everybody else? If they're a maglomaniac. That's why they have no problem killing people, because they have no problem if they happen today fucking around with magic to gain knowledge that others don't know.
No, it does seem like an occult technology, like going back to a remote viewing too. That that seems like an occult method or or a magical method that the government found out about. And they try to make it look scientific. That's what they do with everything. They try to cloak it in science and make it and act like there's nothing spirit or you know, spiritual or magical happening.
I think our country in Germany are like perfectionate.
Yeah yeah for sure, Germany for sure.
Yeah yeah is magic effects and stuff.
I mean, yeah that if if we didn't get it from the Nazis, the Nazis got it from us.
Sometimes if you look back firing up certain things, it's like, well, who actually started this first? It's like it's like you see something that's like you see how it eventually grew into something bigger than Yeah, and not just even with us, like the cub Scouts, like like the Nazis actually brown coats from my scam yeah yeah, oh yeah, what the fuck?
Like you know, yeah, they were. I was reading something recently where the Nazis were over over in German and like their newspapers and stuff, they were praising the United States for their eugenics program back in the early thirties. We had we had a eugenics program. Not to get too off topic here, but.
Logs were crazy into that ship.
We they our government seems like they kind of started to disband the eugenics thing in the thirties and four, but before that, the Nazis loved it. They modeled what they did after some of the stuff we were doing. So yeah, man, like who got it from who? And it's not just the Nazis, Like before the Nazis came into power, there were there was a huge occult revival happening over there in the early early to late maybe early, but definitely late eighteen hundreds, turn of the century, Theosophy,
Golden Dawn. Oh, it's it was a huge. The Masons were their huge occult revival happening in Germany, and I think it affected it sent ripples over here to us popping off for the did you say fifteen hundreds, Oh yeah, oh yeah, it goes back to two hundreds.
Huge.
Oh it goes clear back to Paracelsis. Yeah, into fifteen hundreds for sure. Man, for sure. I'm selling it short by saying eighteen hundreds, because you're absolutely right that that occult movement. See, I saw it picking up in my research. I saw a huge, huge pick up and in the occult just it's just interesting the occult over there in the late eighteen hundreds. But it didn't start then. I mean, like you're saying a.
Lot of a cultist that might have came from other places and somehow they always make it to Germany and either yeah, hanging out a book too, whether they're you know what I'm saying. It's just really interesting. It's like you almost think like they're going there for a reason. Yeah.
Yeah, and it's and it's also it's like not just Germany, but it's a lot of places like right next to Germany, like Basl, Switzerland or yeah, right there on the border.
Yeah, it's one that does pop up often.
Mm hmmm.
Yeah.
Yeah, that's a Basil was a while. That's a fun deep dive, man, like the stuff that was coming out of Basl in the fifteen hundred. It's like some of the books. I'm trying to remember the name of one. I think it's the Arab Hotel of Magic. You ever heard of that book?
Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, Comy that on the show a long time ago. Yeah, yeah, I think that.
Yeah, yeah, I think it comes out of Basl.
Yeah, there are, but there are a lot of books that came out.
Of around that book is crazy.
Yeah, those are those old old books. There was stuff that I used to look at when I was in the Oto.
I'm sure, I'm sure. Yeah, let's let's talk about that, man, Like, I don't what what what do you want to do here? Because I I I'm having fun with the conversation, but I also want if you want to be able to tell your story about the abyss, I want to give you that opportunity or really, shoot you should we let's go into let's go into what got you into Oto because I actually don't know this. I'd love to know this. Uh.
Got into conspiracies Pylorisle twenty ten and around them for me when I first kind of like started coming across stuff, a lot of it was Jordan Maxwell, Michaelssary, and David I Project Camelot. If anybody remembers them, well, so I'm trying to think of other people. Who's that other guy? He's Mark Passio, He's still around. Uh. They all focused on the occult a lot at some point, you know
what I'm saying. So that kind of got me a little bit more interested in the occult aspect of conspiracies, you know, and I started to believe that this stuff was probably legit. You know. I did think magic was possibly real. There was like something hidden out there that we don't understand, forces, energies, whatever, and uh so I was always kind of like big into that, and I kind of like, you know, just whenever I got into
conspiracy and stuff. You know, we listened to a lot of other things, but that was just the main thing that I focused on and listening about different types of beliefs and all this and that. And then it shot like looking into orders and like, oh, who's doing what, who's where of this and that? And you know, I the same shit that a lot of us podcast about. Literally I was interested in stuff like that, and then like one day it's just a click in my head.
I was like, Yo, I still don't know what goddamn thing, what the fuck magic is? Like, I just following names and dates and orders and places like I still haven't figured out what the hell are they doing? You know. So I was like, let me still looking into this stuff. I started looking into stuff like online, and for me, I just I wasn't into witchcraft really. I just felt like,
I don't know how to explain it. I just felt like ceremonial magic and orders might have been a little bit more regimented and actually like kind of like a system. I didn't want to be like involved in something where it's like, oh, you just throw some lavender over your shoulder and spin around with a crystal and you get to go now, you know, saying I want like there to be like some substance to what I'm doing but learning actually, so I started like kind of like looking
into like the Golden Down. I actually wasn't a big fan of Croley. So that's why I like looked into the Golden Door and stuff wasn't anything near me. I wasn't gonna get involved in the Mazons because that would take way too long for me to ever get into practicing magic. I didn't know if the OTO because of Crowley, and I did have some of his books or read some of his stuff, you know, some of his books all highly suggested to read if you're into that stuff. And there was like a book that I had. It
was Donald Craig. I think it was like the twelve or thirteen Lessons in Magic. It was one of the first books I bought to kind of like get into. And he did quote Crowley and like some of the stuff in there might have been Crowley's. So I was like, all right, let me see if there's an OTO. I was like, fuck, there's one twenty five minutes away. I was like, damn, I guess I'll just go there, and uh, they're not that secret to find again. I found one
name in my house not too far away. They all have like social media somehow they'll they'll be like even on the website, the oto website, they'll let you know where their orders are so you can contact them if you want to go. And I found that one and I contacted him somehow its Facebook, email something whatever, one of their contacts, and I told him I was interested in coming to Anostic mass. And I think they gave
me their calendar or whatever. I already saw the calendar or knew the date and told them which one I wanted to come for, and they're like, all right, the day of just let us know. I was like, all right, cool. The day he emailed them, let them know, and then they gave me like it was like obviously, like kind of like a copy paste thing. It was like directions from all different places the address, you know. The situation. One thing I did think was weird was a little
fucking creepy about it off the bat was that. But I understand now because of the situation. At first, I was like, yo, what the fuck is going on? It was like in an apartment building in Queens and there was a park across the street and this apartment building like you need a key to get into the fucker, all right. So like so it's basically in the directions. It's like, you know this park benches across the street from the gate, go hang out there and we'll come
out and get you. And I'm just like, oh my god, this is already fucking weird. And like I turned the corner because I parked a few blocks away. It's Queen's and there was a bunch of people standing there. So I was like, okay, I was like, at least not sanding me here by myself. Like I could already tell just from looking at them they must be there for that, you know, by the way they were dressed. I was like, yep, that's them. Whatever ended up going in it was a
Gnostic mass. Uh, it was a little different than that. You can find it on YouTube. You find it if, I mean, if you really want an honest representation of it, I would try to find anything David Shoemaker's won on video of Vimeo the Gnostic Mass. But you know, it's a little different, but I didn't know. I kind of had an idea what I was getting into. The difference is on YouTube, you will not see the boobies. You'll
not see tits in the Gnostic Mass. So that that took me off guard because I had not I've watched the YouTube version, and I watched it. I was like, all right, this is kind of like church, you know, for them, it's a little weird, but you know, it's different. I was like, I think I can handle this. It was like, you know, nothing crazy, and uh yeah. I was there and all of a sudden, fucking tits around.
I was like, oh, was it anything like the some of the scenes and strange Angel. Did you ever see that Jack Parsons show.
Oh yeah, well the priestess is topless for a part yeah part yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah exactly, yeah, you will get that. And uh, I mean it's like a literally like a few minutes, well, you know whatever. It freaked me out and I was like, if it against any different than this, I'm getting the fuck out of you.
But uh yeah, and some somehow that wasn't weird enough that I probably stayed about six years after that, I did the second time I went back, though, it was for classes, because that was I mean, they did offer classes. They had like history classes too on like certain people or certain like errors maybe or types of magic or you know people, occultists. You know, they were covered stuff like that too. It wasn't just always sure you know,
uh gnostic mass and rituals. So I did do a lot of those things, and I was like, all right, there's some sort of benefit here, and like I can meet people and get ideas, you know, to bounce ideas around, learn from. But obviously I didn't stay. You know, eventually I realized this, this isn't the place for me. It was interesting. I I'm glad I went because I do think like by the time I left, I knew like who I wanted to be and who I didn't want to be. Left.
Well, I'm thinking about it in these I went through a couple of degrees too. I'll just do like, okay, well that's what I was kind of going to allude to. It's like i've worked a job. I'm thinking about one of the jobs in particular I've worked and I was there for six six years as well. And when you when you're when you're in something like a job or when you spend that much time doing something, you become part of the place, It becomes part of you. So
I imagine you learned a ton six years. Is you learn a lot of years?
Yeah? Yeah, Oh for sure, I would say. I mean throughout that time, my idea of magic, even though it was never what I thought it was, that had changed my understanding of the things that I studied. Again, like I had even said, I didn't really get into Kabala my first year year and a half, and like I was in the Oto for a good part of that and like it is heavily cabalistic, and I still was just like, eh, like I'm afraid. Yeah, I finally got into it. I was like fuck, I was like, what
was I waiting for? I was like, I love this ship. It's so fucking like mind bending.
Yeah yeah yeah. And let me rephrase something that not that the Oto became part of you, because that's not because you saying you seem like you grow.
No, I have a few hooks in me, but I I there was. Luckily, there were certain things that was said why I was there, that they told you at one point to go any further, like they did they let you know certain things At the end of one of the initiations, I was like, well, I will never ever be able to do that. So then at that point I knew my time was off. But I mean I might have stayed longer. I don't think I would have been a lifetime person, but it I'm glad I left.
How much better? Mm hmm. You know, and that and not that it was going to make me an evil person. I just think like it was extremely liberal.
Oh, I hear you, extremely okay, M I could see that. I could see that. I know there's some there's some people who why I'm friends with on Instagram, and it seems like the more liberal leaning people tend to be in either a cult or like ghost hunting. I don't know why that is.
Oh you're something with that?
Why that is? But I just said that on the podcast.
So I'm saying that about any of the ghost hunters I've had on my show. But I have noticed that for ghost hunters to have on my show.
It's not all of them.
No, No, there's something I have noticed. I was like with that, What's I was like, it's sort of making me wonder, like, what about ghost adventures, like what about ghost hunters, Like I wonder what their ideas.
Well, maybe it's because, you know, were they liptards?
And I never know.
Maybe it's because you know, if you look at like not to get or or anything like that. But like, but like you know, it has changed, like the gold Post has changed. What it means to be a liberal ten years ago is not what it means today. Like things, but it seems like, you know, you to join an order like that or to be interested in it, you you have to be open minded. So maybe maybe it's like that open minded thing like they're you know, well I think you.
Know what, you know what the bad thing is, Well, I won't see. It's just for me. And like again, like I'm not even trying to be harsh about it, but it's just like all right when you're in these things, and especially for me, if you kind of feel weird or like even that weird. But like I obviously didn't specifically fit in completely because I'm even just the way I looked people saw me in the streets, they would have no ideam into this shit. Really, everybody that you
can't tell you know what I'm saying. So when I walk in I say it out so uh like I just always like so like either camaraderie. Once you like, all right, I take manrval, all of a sudden they start calling your brother or sibling or whatever, even though that's not supposed to be said unto a fucking first degree. So they already start saying things like that. So it gives you a sensible longing and it starts making you feel good, and then you are all right, these people
are cool, that's not bad. And then things that you thought probably a year ago that's straight up mental illness, now maybe not be because ah, they're not too bad now. I'm not saying that they're a horll of a person
because they're mentally ill. No, but you start fucking changing things in your mind to justify the situation you're in, and before you know it, I'm not even thinking the same person I was a year Coming in makes me look that at times, they said, in order for me to even walk in this place and stomach it, sometimes I actually have to like really like kind of I don't shut shit off, you know, which I guess you
know that's kind of a magician thing to do. Anyway, if you want to get what you want, You're gonna have to you know, I ask just to an extent and listen, you're gonna sell your ass. But you know, you know, you have to have a GPS, I guess, and you find a way to get to the destination that you want. So I guess if I wanted to keep learning and thought it was there, I had to deal with it. But it was just, you know, at times I was just like I normally, but not even fucking associated.
Here's a rookie question.
I'm not even trying to be mean. It's just like, all right, you're cool. It's just we don't need to hang out or like talk, and I don't have to act like I like you all the time. I get it, you know what I get it. It's like that you just start finding did you change a little bit?
It's like that with that, you know, not to just keep going back to making the analogy of working a job. But you know, you take a job, you're around a bunch of people you would normally hang out with, and you start being cool with them.
You know that happens. You know, it's a good way to even use that as an example podcasting. Depending on what group of circles. You start getting into wolves and you supposed to here to certain ideas and people. Sure.
Yeah.
I left the ot O and came of the podcasting. I was like, this ain't any different.
For the fu Yeah, I know, man, I know, I'm not gonna. I'm just gonna. I'm gonna buy it my tongue for this.
No, no, no, you know, I'm just saying I think everybody does. Everybody who knows you know, it's a is it what it is?
It?
Yeah?
So but I'm sorry, I gotta I gotta ask this and I know what it's like.
Any question you want to ask? Man? Again, Like I said, any any answer, I'll answer as honestly as best as I can. There's no secrets for me.
All right. What what's the first thing that they teach you when you get in there? Can you disclose that or well?
I guess all right, I mean disclosing it. I guess like all right, Well, I mean they do. They don't really teach you. They suggest that you learn like the Pentagram ritual and the Hexagram ritual. Now I guess teaching you. I mean, I guess you would consider that stuff that they do with the initiations Okay, there's certain things that will teach you like a word, They will teach you a grip, and they will even teach you like a
sign that you'll do and uh Minervel. The first one that they give you is on which it was kind of funny that it's the name of God, and I was like, I heard that in the Joining Maxwell fucking video twelve years ago. Thanks, Like that's what I was waiting for it, you know. And then uh, he's another name of God. Then then then they give you like, uh, you know, how you do the handshake, You stick out of your thumb and somebody's supposed to come over and squeeze at twelve times. Mm hmm.
So they acknowledge God, not not in a Christian sense, but they acknowledge God.
Yeah, yes, oh yeah yeah, different words for it.
Okay, I didn't know that. So now now I'm worrying. Okay, what is on is that? What?
What is that?
Derivative of? What language? Is that?
The truth? Off the hand? I couldn't tell you. I do know the I mean the first three initiations I remember correctly. They're all kind of taking place. Oh by Heliopolis, Monval, you're heading to Heliopolis, but like you're also getting picked up by like Sufi dudes, like you know, like sure, so yeah, I mean, I don't know if it has anything to do.
With sufi is Middle Eastern mysticism, right.
Yeah, yeah, yeah. The first three are pretty much dealing with that whole type of like scenario and situation and area. Yeah, so what was weird because because because in the second degree they make you stand in the corner and hold a sword. But the sword ain't bent like a fucking one over there. It's a straight sword. So now that doesn't even match the area I mean, or even the fucking time. Maybe it's weird, right yeah, yeah, yeah, I
bet you there's a reason for that though. There's probably a reason for that.
Yeah, there's probably a reason. Things change over time, who knows. But like the hexagram and the pentagram ritual are those are two different things?
Yes, yes, one's the pentagram. You're basically dealing with elemental energy so well that they are dealing with elemental energies here the hexagram rituals you were starting to like tap into planetary energies or you could start using that with like the Kabbala like ideas with the Kabbala because like you can even attribute planets to the Kabala and then you can start kind of like working with aspects of the Kabala in a sense.
Okay, so and that.
And that is not obviously with a hextagram. You know, you'll you'll be drawing a hextagram or different variations of a hexagram for that for that ritual. And it's just so it's a lot more. It's a lot more to it. Yeah, Okay.
So that's interesting because we talked about this book a minud ago Erbtel Magic, and I picked up. One of the concepts I picked up on in that book is this idea of the elementals and then the planetary. And I think, if I'm remembering correctly, in that book, the planetary we're called Olympic spirits, and then the elementals were like the sylphs, nymphs, dryads.
There's day you can, I think the cels. You're trying to attribute that with their Yeah, but uh yeah, the oh wow, that's another thing I totally forgot. Yes, Darbyitel has the Olympic spirits in there. There is a but.
You guys weren't working with spirits. You're working with the concept.
Right me, Well, with them in there, I'm trying to think whenever I did. I guess the gnostic mess is kind of representative of somebody crossing the abyss on the Book of the day the Book of the Law was written, Fuckay ninth and tenth or somewhere around there and probably sucking that up. Uh oh, that's why that guy said four to eight has nothing to do with Alima. April eighth, that's the day of the Book of the Law. Fuck. Sorry, it's not a brain fark. So some guy said some
shit to me and I didn't podcast past. Yeah, no, I had know. I had somebody on who's releasing a book and it's coming out on Foy eight, And I was like, I love that date, not even because I like forty eight for a different reason, totally forgetting. I think that's the first day of the written of the Book of the Law. And that's probably why he said there's no reason behind that day. I don't want Fellomites getting all excited for nothing. I didn't understand that connection,
and now it just clicked in my head. Wow.
Cool.
So yeah, that the book had written on eighth, ninth and and those dates the lodge. You know, there's a lodge, there's oasis is in camps. I would assume as long as they have enough people there they the lodgers will in the oasiss. I'm sure for sure they will do rituals that day. Those will use uh hidiit nuts and horse in the in the in the rituals. But besides that, I to tell you the truth, uh, unless somebody wanted
to do one and you have to get approval. A lot of this stuff actually was normally kind of like related to cabalistic stuff. One time when I was there and I didn't go to it, they actually did some sort of goetic thing. I can't remember. They might have been like I think it was a Samuel me. I can't remember. I suppose that they voked somebody something into a triangle. I didn't go for, say sam I own, yeah, like some goetic spirit though I can't remember. Okay, yeah,
but I didn't go for that. But that was the one time that I was there for all that time, I saw that. But for the most part, like I would actually have to say, I don't remember, like there was a few rituals that were done, like outside of what they normally do, but it was nothing ever like specific, like one time, one time they did a ritual, like there was showing us how to make what you know, like when you make an envelope, so seals, how to make wax seals. Sure, you could use those in envelopes,
so you can actually make sigils out of that. You can maybe design your own whatever and get put it into a print or whatever, you know, if you wanted to do that. And it was like one of our classes like that, and the girl who was teaching the class actually wanted to like turn it into a talisman. So she ended up doing like the the banishing ritual for the elementals to clear out where you are. Then she eventually went into the lesser banishing ritual the hexagram,
you know, and that banishes everything. It's like starting over the c and slate. And then she invoked the sun and you know, that's kind of like rain over your own domain. It's you know, it's a good honestly, it's a good thing. It's kind of like you know, overall balanced good thing for you, you know, in a sense. So that's what she was putting into the talisman, you know, but.
Like which she would probably wear that right.
Or yeah. I think it was something I can't exactly No. I think it was more or less like something to or like use like on your you know, okay yeah, or or or to even just use it literally as a male stamp if you want.
Okay, like to keep like to clear the energy of whatever you're sending. That's interesting.
But uh yeah, like she did one of those rituals okay out of it, and I thought that was rather interesting.
So, okay, what the pentagram? Of course, most people, I think have a negative perspective of that because the way it's been portrayed in pop culture. You know, it usually shows up in true crime cases. You know, anytime you see a movie somebody's getting killed and they want to they want to like show you that there's an occult element to the murder, they'll throw the pentagram in. You know. That's I think that's what it kind of But what what did it represent for you guys?
I just like the four elements in the spirit innocence uh Earth. It is also even used as a symbol for Earth the pentacle on your altar uh man.
Me.
I think itsult might even have to do with like light reflection, even like the symbol of lucifer is extremely close to how light reflects off you, like, extremely almost looks just like it. So you have to sell wondering about shit like that. I do think that's why I get into the eyes of the brain. Yeah, you know, Uh, I mean that depends. I mean that's that's no, that's pendagram into like other things like, Yeah, I can get see.
I'm I'm learning a lot right now. I mean, I mean, I really am. And I think maybe we should probably tell people too that the oto. I'm going to take a stab at it, and you correct me if I'm wrong. That was Was it Theodore Roos and Crowley who created that?
Theodore rous And I always forget the other guy's name, so sorry, I mean the guy's but uh, you know, no, well you know for him, you know, I always forget this other guy's name. But I'm sure he was just as important. He started doing with somebody else and uh, Crawley, I don't know what exactly. Neither he said something, I was writing something. He came across them that They're like, oh my god, this guy understands the secrets of our order.
I supposedly they guy in touch with him. He was like, oh, I had no idea supposedly, but then they eventually met and they handed the order over to him, and he knocked out a bunch of the initiations and like kind of put the Book of the Law as a you know,
the holy book and changed the order. It wasn't but they were originally like there were Masons who started an offshoot, but at the time when it wasn't ran by Crowley, it did have like if a Mason came into it, and it was at a certain degree, you didn't have to start at the bottom, so it was they could jump.
Yeah, they get a little headstar. Now does it come out of Germany originally?
Yeah?
Yes, that's interesting, you know because we were just talking about that all this stuff, just.
That they're the headquarters is Swiss. We were talking about Switzerland before. Yeah yeah yeah, yeah, yeah yeah yeah yeah. It's like weird weird ship is that even like this? Have you ever heard of the Saint Gallam Mafia? No, sat well, Saint Gallam Mafia a while ago. They are even like somehow tied to like the they're over They started over in Switzerland and they were like somehow even tied to like the Oto like order over.
Are they like a traditional mafia, like a crime family.
Or well they're uh, you know, actually, I'll just explain it real quick. It was like a bunch of bishops basically like card that that if you look at where we show in the in the in the thing is
that between like two dudes. They was basically freemasons that started because of their power, started putting people into position, and all of a sudden you realize, like between two bishop and cardinals, they made all these other ones bishop and cardinals that were all picking certain leftist ideology and trying to push it at the same time. Like it was like it was a choreographed effort to actually install a bunch of occultists to fuck up the Catholic Church. Wow. Pretty fucking interesting.
Yeah, Like they were trying to like go in there and like change the Catholic doctrine or something. Yeah.
Yeah, they were the ones who were pushing to get rid of the Latin Mass. They're the ones that are saying that, uh.
Uh they want did they want a Gnostic Mass in place of that?
They want to do the Latin But that was one of the connections that supposedly, uh, the OTO had used one of their churches to do domestic mass sometimes and that the church. Now this is now I don't know if this is true or not, because this is the whole thing. The Oto even has cakes of light, which is not the same thing as what they give you in church. But supposedly this church was even like giving them like the cakes of light to use. So now that I don't know if that's true, because that's not
the same thing a Catholic church is gonna use. They're gonna have to make that themselves. And if they are, that to me is you've crossed the line and there's something fucking wrong there. If you're making cakes a light for the Oto, you know, something shady.
Yeah, for sure.
Well you know you're you're you're cooking menstrual blood into that.
There's a lot of Wow, yeah, there's there's there's a I mean, you know, there's plenty of researchers out there who have done pretty good, diligent work, and what they've kind of proposed is that there is a little sect of a cultists in the Vatican. Oh yeah, maybe it's not a little set either, but there is at least sure.
Again, like I was saying in seventeen hundreds. I mean they were basically a cultist and open about it. Not all of them were bad, but they were looking at Catholicism in completely occult way.
Well, so what about this? Then? You know, you're when you join the OTO and you start doing these rituals like you're doing the hecks, you're doing the pentagram, and then you're, you know, going, are you are you suited up? Are you doing it in a Catholic kind of a way? Do you feel like you're at all? Right?
At my house when I used to do this stuff, I remember even Max Well, my wife at the time, she had even said something about it looks like a Catholic church in here. Yeah, because the way I did it, I was very much like the stuff I used just looked like Catholic church. Like all right, I had the incense burner that I had. He was one of those said, yeah, I had one of those ones that swing and I would chain. I even had the thing that you would use.
Uh when they used to do the water. It was like a thing with a ball at the end that you dump it in the water, and it has like a big cotton bowl in there, and it kind of just like, you know, let's it come out at the end. I use that to cleanse my circle.
Oh you used the Catholic thing for that?
Yeah? Yo, no shit you not two blocks down away from me when I lived in Queens was this beautiful Catholic church and they had this big fucking like coffee earned thing in there that they used to fill up with holy water and then fill up these things as you're walking in so you can dip your fingers in and whatever. I would go in there with a bottle and just fucking I'd fill up a jug and bring
it home. Wy would use the holy water. Yo. One time, I didn't even realize there with a fucking Salem, a Salem tea, a Salem hoodie with a pentagram on the back, filling up a fucking bottle of holy water in the church. Well that they'd be like, what the fuck is going on here?
I just got this, Like, I just got this mental picture of you go and filling up your water bottle with holy water and going back and doing you're doing a ritual at home. That's great.
So that's awesome, man, Like even the whole idea behind I mean, these magicians who make their own holy water because they do think like this something to that.
Sure.
Sure, and a lot of stuff with Catholicism that people would be surprised is like taken into consideration. With magicians.
Yeah, I mean.
They believe Moses was a magician. A lot of if they're not ignorant and don't deny the Bible of having worth, a lot of those magicians will even say Jesus was against the magician. They all acknowledge them as being like, oh Jesus.
I mean, I'm not Catholic, and i didn't grow up Catholic, but I've got a lot of family in Pittsburgh and they're in a very Catholic centric neighborhood out there, and like all three of my cousins when they got married, they had Catholic weddings. So I went to those. And I'll tell you something right now, man, a Catholic wedding at least the ones I I went to was about
ninety percent Catholic Church ten percent wedding. It was just like so when i started learning more about magic and the occult, and I'm reading about certain rituals and stuff like that, while I'm reading it, I'm thinking back to my time at these Catholic weddings, and I'm like that what I'm reading here sounds a lot like what I saw them doing in the Catholic Church, just in a different way, just like a remix.
Oh. I well, I mean, I'll tell you right now. Even people that I knew now this is again. I'm not saying it's siding of something I got into with the Goatia. People who I knew were fucked with that were actually very like deep into like Catholicism a cult, and like very much even like the regalia, very like the Catholic or look like it's it's kind of interesting.
Oh and you know, we're talking about Hebrew too earlier, and like in the Old Testament when they're at their temple, when they set up the temple out in the desert or whatever, and uh there their priests are used in those swinging incense things all the way back in the Old Testament. So I'm wondering if like that came from a Hebrew tradition originally. I mean, who knows, But I.
Do even find it interesting, Like I got riantee you, there's a reason why we even use those I guarantee you. It symbolizes something yeah, oh, do you think with these rituals and I'm gonna throw this out there with the at least with the I mean the pentagram retro on the hexagram ritchill kind of you're doing the same thing
in a sense. But this is gonna sound weird. But just when it comes down to adapting shit to physiology, I actually think these rituals do show you the difference that goes on inside your eyeball when you have a magical experience. Because your eyebill, when it goes to open up,
it pulls open at four corners. When it goes small, it actually spirals closed, screws closed, and you're going to the full corners whichever's there, and taking control of it and spiraling around in your black robe at the same time, very much like your pupils, screwing clothes and destroying the muscles that pulled it open.
Have you ever seen a unwound.
Then you, I mean, what's going on? Yeah? Yeah, yeah?
Have you ever seen an unwound or unraveled heart? Because a heart is a heart is folded. It's a fold. It looks like it looks like if you were to take a scarf or like okay, even better, like like a big long strip of flank steak that's real thin, okay, And if you wrap it up over a piece of bacon or something, you can pull it out. That's that's what a heart looks like. But when it's unraveled, bro, it's like, uh, it looks like a DNA strand.
Oh shit, Okay.
I got to check that out, and it looks like if I'll try to send a picture. I saw a picture of it. I'll try to send it to you after we're done. But like, it looks like some other symbol as well. So the heart is not this chunk of meat that we symbolize as you know, like a heart emoji or whatever. It's it's an it's a it looks like a piece of a spiral of steak or something. It's crazy, man, but I don't know. It reminded me
so with the eye thing though. Back to that, so you're saying earlier the symbol for lucifer looks like the symbol of light hitting the eye, right.
And the unit crystal exagram. I don't if you see it, that's very close to something, you know. That's what's that called against hexagram? Okay? Well, he ended up taking it over, but he didn't make it. He was a master of taking other people's ship.
But it's got an eye in the center.
Right, Yeah, that I put it there. I had to put that in myself. But that's very close to how light reflects off your eye as well. Mm hmmm, well so you know it also changes depending on how dilated.
It is to the next tent, you know, like fluctuates. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, you're onto something you're on. What is this houses fit into your do you want to do? Do you want to talk about this cross? I'm want to talk about this crossing the abyss because I'm still trying to figure out what it is. Maybe that's not going to happen today, but you.
Know we can. Maybe we won't figure it out what it is.
I mean, but well, because it seems like maybe the eye and what's happening with the eye is maybe affecting affecting that somehow.
Right. What I do think in the long run is like people, if anybody's ever been an emt or and paramedic, you'll know exactly what talking about. You know, people they say the light goes out your eyes when you die. I do think in his sense like you're actually writing that light out of your out of your body.
Mm hmm. That.
But uh, the one thing I do before I even get into this, one thing I do want to preface. When this happened, there was no drugs involved. I didn't start smoking weed again until like COVID got crazy because I was like, if I got to go out to public and deal with this man this, I gotta I gotta start smoking weed again. I can't deal with this. So I started like started kind of like picking up smoking weed again. But none of this had drugs involved.
And believe it or not, the ones I'm going to talk about now where I do actually think it was a magical experience. I never even did a ritual. It was all done under meditation. So what I'm saying is that drugs and rituals, I do not think it necessary. It's not my experience. I just want to put that out there. And again, you know, it normally came from from meditating, uh, you know, just to get myself down,
you know, just to it. Normally, when I would go to meditate, I would sit in a chair with a straight back, so my back is straight, and I'll put my hands on my lap straight on my legs. It's called the God pose. It's one of the poses that is suggested to do in the in the Oto, and I think in Libert there was a suggested breathing techniques and poses to do during meditation. Libra O would be one of their books that they do suggest that has
the hexagram and Pentagram ritual in there. If anybody's you know, not pushing it, but you know, I'm just saying those are texts that they would suggest. So I was using the God form and I was, you know, I will normally sit there, I'll breathe, you know, in and out for a while and get myself you know, relaxed. Then I'll start to like kind of just like in visualize like kind of energy going through my body up and down.
It's just like a thing that I've done since day one when I started getting into meditating, because it was just a suggested thing. It's like to try to visualize and feel like an energy flow up and down. I would do that, and then eventually I would start like chakras, and then eventually I would start like for me, just I know, if there's other people out there that do mess with chakras, they do say you can feel the fuckers, And I do believe that speels like spinning bowls or
something of like window like little tornadoes. I sat like eventually like focusing on that and like practicing I think, like techniques and certain chakra books. You know, I got big into that for meditation. A lot of things I incorporated into meditation just to keep me meditating because it is hard for me, you know. Or Originally it's like who the fuck wants to sit there and try to think anohing for fifty minutes? It's fucking boring, you know
what I'm saying. Who until I realized, like, and that's one thing I do want to mention too, that there would be times where I go to meditate on tarot cards. It's not so much shutting everything off. It's just maybe only have five voices or if you're really good, to focus on one idea like this tarot card and try to get you know, what might pop into my head that I'm thinking about. You know what I'm saying. It's not shutting it all off, at least not from my experience,
but it's fucking crazy. Uh So, like I would start like going into chakra work and then it just happened that at one point, I just started like I would focus on my pineo gland because I had noticed that sometimes like when I was in a deep meditation, if I was doing my shack is if I was the focus and like really pushing on my panial gland a lot,
almost like visually, it would start getting darker. And I always started thinking, like this, something's weird with that, or is there like something that I'm doing, Like I don't know with my eyes or in my head that like when I'm pushing there, maybe it's not my panial something else, you know, what's making like that visual change within my eyes. My eyes are closed, you know, because it was like it was definitely a difference in blackness. And I was like,
all right, we're going to play with this again. And I started like pushing on it hard and like I'm meditating, you know, I could have been meditating for like twenty thirty minutes at this point, already playing around with stuff. And again this has been years that I've just been doing this stuff. And I started pushing on it like really hard, and it got like really black to where like it's really weird, Like I'll take it this is
where it really starts to begin. Now that like when the black starts to come in, it almost looks as if like let's say I was looking down at a black table and I went and like when like blue on it, and there was dust on the table, but I didn't even notice because it's so black. And when like it blows away, you're like, oh my god, that's really black, Like you know, it's even darker because there's
like no tint to it. It's like so black, or like if like, uh, you're looking an asphalt and like oil started coming out of it, and that was even darker than the asphalt. I don't know, but like it looked like something spelling out almost like in my vision, like really fucking black, and it would have like these razor lines around it that almost looked like like fluorescent
like rainbow kind of bright colors. And it just starts to like totally take up my vision and then eventually it's like really and then it'll almost starts to look like like a flag, like almost like water, you know. And this is something like I just want to say that I've even wondered about, like if you're if if light was to shine on like a black like a black floor. Could you make it look like a wave depending on how the light shining on it, even though
it's not waving. So I'm even wondering if there was this light already, like something going on with the light and my perception even with that that's a little deep, but I have thought about that. But it does look like it almost starts to be like a wave and then all of a sudden, just like stop. It's like they'll start to see this little dark like you're not
dark bright right as hell. Pin dot looks like a star, like all the way out in the distance, and it even almost looks like there's like I know, this going sound crazy, like black clouds around it, because like as like you see the white pin dot, there's almost like a glow coming from it, and you could see like these it almost looks like cloud puffs, but it's like drawn into the blackness, and it's like you see kind of like that line or that shape so hard to explain.
It's almost like you do you ever remember a view Finders back in the day when we're kids and you play that, you push the thing on the side of it and it's almost like different layers of stuff to make it look three D and then yeah, darts to look very much like that, even with the like the layers of the clouds, and then like the star, and as crazy as it is, your eyes are closed and you could swear there's depth. It's it's fucking weird. You
almost like can feel it. It's very weird, and it starts to get closer, and it will start like then it'll start seeing like almost black come out and start like kind of swirling in the middle and turn into like a black sphere, and then eventually it's like you see this big Basically what you're getting now is an eclipse. Went from a star to like it turns into an eclipse, and I think he's sitting there. And then like those lines I said before, those bright fluorescent lines, Oh no,
I'm sorry. This happens. First I see it and it stays there and I see like the eclipse. Now this whole time I'm pressing on my pineal glands still holding looks like explosions almost start going out like around around it, and again it's like it's like pops of color. And then if you remember, like what I was saying, that
almost looks like drawings of clouds. That's there again. But because of the colors exploding and those outlines, it looks like an explosion to me, more flowers blooming, which is why all my logo logo.
But yeah, yes, it looks like an eclipse with flowers.
Flowers blooming around. Trying to visualize my vision. Yeah, I'm trying to. So, uh, that starts to happen and it starts to look like roses blooming. Yeah, that will go away and out of like the four called the directions, those bright thin lines will start to spin almost like spiraling like a camera case or camera lens. You know how that just like your pupil basically how it's spirals. You will see that coming out like spiraling out of it.
It was all these spirals coming out of the fucking eclipse. And like it almost even feels like it's like like like almost feeling like stuff within your body. Wow, we'll get into that when you really start to feel that start to change. Because there's a whole physical feeling that I have never ever ever felt unless I fuck with magic. I've never felt it again before or after, so it's very distinct to me. So yeah, so I see that and that starts spiraling out and then all of a
sudden you start getting like these geometric like shapes. So you know we were saying it before, like geometry, Yeah, like all these and it's like spiraling and like pasted you coming out of like the side of the eclipse. And then right around the time that starts to stop. I don't know if you've ever seen like the logo I might use on my on my Twitter, on my YouTube where instead of clips and then the movie reels coming out of it, I had Maria from Symbolic Studies
make that for me. Amazing piece of work he did.
He did.
It's another vision of mine. When that starts to happen. What will happen is that those those shapes will go away.
And then for me, the easiest way I try to explain it, it looks a lot like if movie reels were running past you real slow, or if like you were standing in the middle of the and two cars are coming down going the same direction but really slow, and like you were a look you could see inside the car windows, and so you just start seeing and they look like they're like cellophane with a sepia look
to them. It's like literally, like I've actually wondered. And I'm not trying to say, oh I understand John Lennon, but him and even uh del Ray Lana del Rey, I've talked about cellophane skies wow, and he when I saw that, I was like after the fact, when I'm trying to remember, like yo, like thinking like even how weird that vision looked. I'm like, oh, that kind of looked like I was looking through like you I smoked cellophane, you know, like a sepia cellophane tinged, and I'm like
that clicked in my head. I'm like, oh fuck, that guy said that in uh whatever, but uh, Cellfhane's skies. But I start seeing that coming down and again, like movie reels would be a good way, but it doesn't have like those things on the top that the movie reels actually sticking into those little holes. It's just these windows that start going really slow and coming down the side. Normally except the one time I normally like you see him, but like you kind of see there's something in there,
but I wasn't. I was more still focused on the fucking eclipse, and it's just like, Okay, these windows are coming by around that time, I will start feeling like like a fluttering like in my body, and from like the I will start to feel like like at the bottom of my toes going like all the way up like it will almost start to feel like it's like
it sounds crazy like disappear. Do you ever see Tron when they went into tront and it just starts like, oh yeah, literally as if like from the bottom up was like like the wind just came by and I was sand and it was gone, and like by the time I get up to my knees, everything below that's gone, and it just like literally starts to feel like like I'm just disappearing, or maybe my nerves are the electricity running through my body isn't there anymore, so I'm not
feeling it, which is what I think more of it. I think like you're actual, like you're starting to like go up into your spirit.
It's like your spirit has not attached your legs anymore.
I don't think you'll feel it. Yeah, yeah, so I do think so, which is probably why some people will still feel limbs when they're gone, because maybe the spirit in the sense is still coming out of there. I don't know, Yeah, but hear what you're saying. So eventually it will start to come up like into closer to my body, and everything below again is gone, and it
starts to like build up into my head. And then at one point it's like all of a sudden, it feels like if you were like laying on the beach and I had like I was laying out there and the wave crashed and it was like running up the sand and the water like somehow the bottom of my souls will like hollow and the water could just run through my body like and go through my legs, and
my whole body literally like felt like water. And then all of a sudden, it goes up in the top of my head and it was like, you know, it like comes I know, it sounds crazy right where they Amaica goes too. It feels like I'm blasting out the top of the back of my head and that's like all right, oh sorry, So those things start to go away, those those those windows, and then all of a sudden you just have the fucking eclipses just they're like just by itself.
And then all of a sudden, the black sphere starts to rise up from the white one. It almost looks like Tolt's head dress where it looks like a crescent moon in the sun. But I see that when it separates. Actually, just to be honest, it looks a lot like that. And as soon as it separates now again, I'm pressing on my panelion, pushing on a real fucking hard this
whole time. As soon as that separates, it literally feels like something snapped and something dam smacks me right back, like literally feels like some sort of polarity change, and me pushing meant me getting popped in the head now. And then that's when all of a sudden, everything feels like it starts coming out of my body and it's like literally like my head explodes, and it literally feels like that My body bursts into like a million butterflies.
It's like like fluttering, just like going out, and it starts to feel like almost like two thousand and one where it starts to look like that weird like linear. It almost feels like you start getting pulled out, like all over the boys, you know, and you're getting stretched out, and you start like going like you start to literally almost start. It sounds crazy, and I hate to fucking ad minute, but this is why I do think NASA
is literally just an occult fucking thing. A lot of the visions that you start to that I've had after this does look like you just be floating and fucking what you think of space, but you're a part of it. You're not in it. You're literally like a part of the fabric and just like fucking going along with it. And you get a lot of that I have like wow, man, But it like literally feels like you're contrected into like the fabric of whatever you're envisioning or whatever you're a
part of. And when that happens, it's like, literally you feel like something melts off of you. There's not one thought of like hate, anger, fear that The only thing I can I can equivalate it to is if you were to take the idea of love, I mean, for real, for real, A million times stronger than the fucking best nut you've ever busted. And it's it's way stronger than
any feeling you think you think is love. It is like, all of a sudden, the most intense feeling of ultimate love, and it's just like you're just there witnessing and being in existence and not questioning anything, and love and thinking a goddamn thing. You just feel it. And as soon as I start thinking about where the fuck I am or who the fuck am I, yeah it done.
Yeah yeah, yeah yeah, almost like.
As I think your self, you're fucking man. That's wild because what I think at that point, however people want to take it. I do think you're connecting to the all, and once you start to think about yourself, you're no longer than that anymore. I was separate yourself from the source by even thinking of yourself.
Yeah, yeah, you it's almost like you've attached briefly attached yourself to the universe and and you're and that's the feeling of like it's almost like a drug, but it seems like it's like better, a better feeling than you would get from drugs, almost like it's more pure or wholesome or whatever. Clear people abuse it though, too sure. I could see that because it sounds like it feels great.
I thought it was addictive, and I kind of stopped because like my last real experience was like before I put myself into the hospital, and I was like, ooh, I'm like I did it three times in a week. I was like, oh, this is great.
Is that when your eyes got all your.
Oh yeah, well they had already started getting like that anyway. But that, like again, like the shit lasted like literally probably a month and a half to go back to normal. Okay. Yeah, Like even when I when I left the hospital, I didn't see the eye doctor until two or three weeks later, and there was still a difference. It was originally full millimeters difference that at that point it was only two millimeters difference. But she even was like I could see
the difference. It was crazy too, Swear to god, I even I said the lady because I was weirded out, and I was just like, yo, I was like, is there anyway you can actually like, for some reason, I had this idea there was something up with your eyes. Again, I don't know why. Like that was another thing I will even say every time I do this shit. This is gonna sound silly, some matrix shit, but it's not
like really knowing kung fu. But when you open up your eyes, you're gonna know things you did, and unfortunately you made know things you didn't want to fucking know, which is another harsh reality you may have to deal with. If you fuck with this, you have to even think of if you have that whole experience and it's really you, how the fuck you even explain what you've believed your whole life if that you just had that experience. Yeah, yeah, everything's been a fucking life. That's real.
Like mushrooms. Like like when I took mushrooms when I was for the first time, I ever, when I was in my twenties early twenties, I took mushrooms for the first time, and I had a wild experience and at the end of it, not to e quite your experience to that, but like the feeling I got afterwards was like that. It was like I saw the world differently, Like like I had a more mature, sort of a more open mind to concepts. Somehow I had lost a lot of the dogma that I had picked up along
the way in life. At that point, I'm not telling people to go take mushrooms. It's don't and don't don't because you're not going to have there's no guarantee that you're going to have. My experience happened to you. That drug does different things to different people, but it was a very powerful thing for me because when the when the mushrooms kicked in. I was sitting in my buddy's truck, and I was just we were waiting for him to kick in.
And I and I, you know, I was sitting there and I could see myself in the rear view mirror the passenger side river. So I was just sitting there almost like waiting for these mushrooms kick in, sitting there just kind of staring at myself in the mirror for some reason. And all of a sudden, my face turned into twenty plus different people like and I said, oh, I sat back. I said, oh, and he goes they kicked in. I'm like yeah. Then I looked over because I had the window down. We were just parked in
the field. I looked over at the tree line and I saw the green man that they talk about the like the Spirit of the West. Saw four three or four green men. The trees became three faces of lizards, and it looks just like the green Man from Appalachia. And then anyway, but okay, so so it was like a so I'd say, I like to say, like it was a very very uh uh engaging trip that I had.
And when I came out of it, though I crashed, I had a paranoia at the very end of it, like it was a it was a wild trip, and when I came out of it, I had this feeling like I can't go back to who I was before. I'm still me, but it's me, it's a different me.
Yeah, you don't you want to look at the world the same anymore? Yeah? Yeah, yeah, yeah. I forgot why I was going somewhere with all that. I think. I'm sorry, I mean, but I think it was literally this What I was getting at is that you know, it will change you. Yeah.
Well, and I was thinking too, like the sun the eclipse part of this for you. It kind of reminded me a little bit of like, uh, there's a scene in a sound Garden video where they show something that looks a lot like your logo actually black yeah, black hole Sun.
You know what's crazy is that ship that they're showing on their faces is an actual brain issue that the small percentage of people have where everybody's face looks like that. Imagine it was morph yeah, imagine imagine you were somebody that had to deal with that like that people.
Yeah, that's crazy.
I forgot the dang, but there is actually an issue with that.
My friend told me that if he looks at people for too long or you know, more than a couple of seconds there, they start turning into cartoon characters looking like that kind of stuff, like their their mouths get a little bigger and their eyes get bigger. He has whatever that is, it's gotta suck, man, it's gotta like black hole sun. Yeah, man, Like the sky in that
video kind of reminded me of your story. And you know what's crazy is like the first line in that song I think is in my eyes He's like, in my eyes indisposed, he says, in my eyes, And he says indisposed, like indisposed, like like reticent or reluctant or something like. That is what he's trying to convey. I think. But that's interesting.
I notice that, Yeah, because I have looked at the lyrics of the song after my experience, I realized that.
Yeah, And like, I mean, I think that's one of those songs that he said Cornell, when he's still alive, he said, like everybody asked him what is this song about? You know, like everybody wanted to know what's this about? You know, is it about the eclipse or clips and
all this stuff? But he was saying in an interview that that song was He said he was playing with words for words sake, almost like a form of divination, like he okay, So like like think about it like this, Like let's say you just you're walking around your house and you're trying to write a song, and in one room you have a TV on. Then the next room you have a magazine open on the bed, next room you have a TV on, another TV on, and then on the fourth room you have like a bookshelf and
you're just walking around in the first room. Whatever they say on TV, you use the line from that second room. You just go and you flip through the magazine and whatever your eye catches, you use that as your second line. Back in the third room or go into the third room, whatever they happen to say on TV and that TV
use that for your third line. And then when you get to your bookshelf in the fourth room, you just pull a book out, open it up, and whatever your catches your eye, that's your Now you've got a Now you've got a full verse of music. Right, And like this is that's what I think he was saying. Like I don't think he did Bowie used to.
He admits that he would take and you know he was he would take old journal entries and cut up words and lines and stuff, and that.
William miss Burrows what would do that because Burrows was doing that with his his like it was like a collage art or something that he was doing. But Burrows, like Bowie, it sounds like was using it for divination because what they were trying to do, they were trying to let a message come through. Like you're you're doing random chaotic stuff, but but a message, a message comes through. So if you write a song like that, the song rights itself.
Yeah.
So I always thought about that with like Chris Now in Black Hole Sun, I'm like when he says he's playing words for words sake. You know, Rick Rubin had guys do that. Rick Rubin had a system of a down do that in one of their songs, It's one of their biggest songs. They were picking up they were taking books off the shelf and just opening them and whatever caught their eye. They were making that the lyric
of the song. But when you listen to the song, it sounds like they're actually they had a topic that they wanted to write about, but the topic they had nothing to do with. The topic topic came to them anyways. Like going back to your Yeah, yeah, and I'm sorry man like your stories. But because in a weird way you're connecting. It's almost like you're you're connecting with something and it's off. It's out of your hands at that point. It's like that thing is coming to you and giving
you the vision or whatever. Maybe I don't know, it's it's you're not like in charge. Seems like it seems like it's just happening. Yeah, or what do you think about that?
Yeah? Like again, like I said, if you think too much, it ends.
Yeah, that's crazy.
Yeah, that is true, though, I guess I'm not really in.
Charge because yeah, because the minute you try to start controlling it or try like if you were, if you're in that moment and you're like, oh, I want to do this for five more minutes, I want to continue this, that would be like you stepping in and saying, oh, I want to kind of control this, and then that's when you lose the signal.
Right, Yeah, I do question too, though, Like the longer you you don't question anything, and your father you will actually go back as well.
Well, and they say that about remote viewing too, because I mean, I went pretty deep into that man looking into it, and some of the remote viewers said, the more or you practice remote viewing, the less potent it your results become.
So that's interesting.
Yeah, yeah, And that's what Josh Valet was saying too. Was like whenever he did his first remote viewing session and he found himself sitting on top of a mountain, they pulled him out of it. They pulled him out of the session, and he immediately wanted to do it again. He's like, I want to try another I want to try to do that. I want to do I want to remote view something else now. And they said no, like you're done for the day, You're done for a while, or like we want you to we want you to
revel in this moment, in this feeling. We don't want you to keep doing it over and over again. It's almost like it loses its potency or something. I don't know. Would you say that you went into well, would you say so while you're telling me that story, I'm thinking about out that movie Gladiator, and like there's a scene, you know they've got that quote in that movie it's like what we do in life, echoes in eternity. And then there's they kept they keep showing this scene throughout
that movie where he's going somewhere else. He's going into like almost like another neighboring dimension or something. It's like a dreamlike it's and it's almost like that Cepia. It's not a Sepia, but it's almost like it's a different coloration to everything. And he's like he's like walking through a wheat field, or he's on a beach and the sky looks different and he's in some dreamlike astral place or something.
Well, I will say like around the the eclipse, it is very much chrome, almost like black and white chromatic uh us the wrong word, but whatever, it's very much just like black and white, almost like old film. And then those those visions, those windows is what brings in like Sepio, it's almost like a brown Tinge saying. Because again,
like you're getting this. You know, people will sometimes equivalent Saturn to like the black Hole song or the black Son and brown is a color kabbaalistically in the Harmericabala, which didn't make sense to me until I kind of you know, now, until that I do wonder if that somewhat is an image of Saturdn you know, an idea of Saturn is in there. That's maybe where the brown sepia look is coming from. That it you know, goes along with it. But I do get that the brown and then the sepia things.
If you wanted to today after this podcast was opened, do you feel like you could go sit down, meditate and reconnect?
Uh? Right right now? Maybe if I was lucky, I'd be totally honest with you, there might be something like right now honestly just because of like where my life is. Because as crazy as it sounds, me being so attached to even the work that I'm doing on podcasts, attachments to like reality. You know what I'm saying. I would have to probably like really like maybe spend like a few days or a week or so maybe to try to like you don't really be able to pull it off.
But what I'm getting at is, I do think I kind if I wanted to. For sure, there's times there is times I've even said this and it's the weirdest shit. Around winter time for me, I could close my eyes laying on the couch for a second and I'll see that fucking show up before winter, around the winter's holstice. I am being totally honest with you. It is much easier to bless off. No idea. What I don't have has to do with the polarity again, because I do
think there's something up with even switching polarity with yourself. Yeah, I actually I think I think when a person creates a magical experience, and it sounds crazy, I think they they're their own black hole. Even think that's part of like what.
You're seeing, like there's a universe within everyone.
Yeah, but it's like that's when it's like it's eats itself out, you know how they say it explodes and then yeah, I think you just you know, you're experiencing one of those right now.
What if this is what Aquino was doing? Where not to not to be like, I don't know, I'm not I'm not trying to joke about your experience, but I think.
That he was.
He was trying to It seems like he was trying to mess around with like an inner black sun or something like that. I could be off with that, but that's what seemed to be. That's what that that's what that symbol I think represents to some people.
I've even said, like when the thing starts to originally start to spend, well for for a minute, it does look like it's just not as angular. It's more it starts to spend, it's not.
Those are because those lines on the Black Sun, those are very rigid lines. They're they're spiraling, but they're rigid, so they look like the corners of a swastika. Yeah.
But uh, man, I'd even wondered, I've wondered if like what they're trying to do with like you know, certain and things like that, if they're actually trying to like recreate like what a magical experience would be in one person but like multiplayer but like billions m.
I've thought about that as well.
Yeah. Uh.
They had one of the things that happened right after they turned on the particle Collider a couple of years back, was they had a huge speaking of spirals. They had a big spiral thing open up in the sky. People are taking pictures of it look like a like a vortex or something, just a just a spiral in the sky. And it even looked like a spiral like if you were to if you were to say, make me a
spiral emoji, So just make a symbol that depicts a spiral. Right, There's something that looked just like that, like a stereotype typical spiral that showed up in the sky over there. There's pictures of it out. I'm trying to remember what they called it. But but anyway, that popped up in the sky, right if they've turned on cern one of those times. So it's like, what's it doing in that regard to to the to the atmosphere, or what's it doing to like the collective consciousness as well?
You actually wonder two of people like have certain like I do wonder if UFO sightings, what people think might be UFO sightings, the side effects of magical experiences as well.
I think our mind is just like the power that we have that we just don't know. It's just a lot of untapped power that we have, uh you know, I.
Mean our bodies running electricity. I don't even think most people even realize that. Yeah, we get from the sun. That's another thing with even where I think occultism gets into this, it does get into like, you know, we receive life from the sun, which does all have like technically a code in there too to listen to what it's saying to say, and it goes into your eyeballs and eventually when it makes it to the back your optic nerve, which this is when I actually think they're
showing you in minerval. I'm just gonna throw that out there for people listening. I was even standing next to a tent that they don't even acknowledge it the whole time you're in there. That looks like an optic nerve, and it's one of your twelve cranial nerves, which is I think why they pump your fucking thumb twelve times
and they tell you the name is on. I think they're actually showing you the back part of your eye, your optic nerve, where it takes sunlight and transfers it into turns it into electricity, and that goes back into your brain and that powers your whole body.
I can totally say that, man, something like that's happening when you ground, Like in the summertime, I'm blessed. I've got a backyard that's kind of private. So in the summertime I'll go out there in the backyard and like sometimes I'll sit out in the sun and just put my you know, barefoot in the in the grass. And the more sun I get, the more are charged up I am for the rest of the day like it's
electric to something happening with electric electricity. From that, I'm gleaning it from the sun though for sure, like I'm buzzing on a higher vibration. Nick after I set out in the sun.
Oh, it's great for you that you know, all right, this is another thing. And I didn't mention this, and I was gonna bring it up and forgot and then uh leab Aresh. That's a book by Croley. It's for the Resh, and that's like a prayer that you do four times a day and you face the sun. You're supposed to actually go outside and do like whatever thing it is and face the sun. I actually think if you were to stare at the sun at those different times of the day, you would actually prime your pineal
gland to be like optimal. Even in one of Croley's rituals, he does when you do the isis at one point you're acting like your isis holding a baby and you will this is Croley's ritual is where you start doing specific like poses you'll grab your nipple. Believe it or that. When a woman has a child and that child goes to put its mouth on that nipple, that child will actually share a relationship with the mother's pineal gland. The
pineal gland will tell her through the fucking milk. We'll start telling you when the seasons are, where it is in longitude and maltitude in this world? How are you gonna sleep? I do think that's crazy. Motherfucker's actually pointing at that. Shit. Wow, there's actually you know, but you this this stem cells. He's even being you know, you're transferred with the baby baby inside the body to like if you start looking at certain ship, you're like, this
is so fucking a cult. If you're still looking at it all the ways.
Yeah, yeah, But believe it or that.
Because I was born first, my brother has my stem cells in his body because my mom had it with me, because I gave her some of mine, because it's a symbiotic relationship. Don't die, bitch, because I want to live, so I'm gonna fucking give her shit she needs. Why I'm taking from what the funk? I want to live in a side or crazy? Man, It's actually very like parasitic relationship.
Yes, yeah, I mean there's there's the occult scaffolding behind everything.
Yeah, but like there is a I do Yeah. Do you think it goes back to a lot of physiology and stuff especially you will feel like certain things inside your eyeballs start to reflect into your brain and down into the uh, the rest of your body, even parts of your brain. You'll see almost the exact same thing flipped upside down, like for the Filippian tubes. It's like
has above so below. What the fuck it's like flipped You know, it's fucking weird, and you start to almost see like a cult symbols, especially if you're sat looking at the brain, certain parts of the brain, you start seeing things. Hr Geiger, who did uh the the stuff for aliens. He was into thala mixed stuff and he was very big into the eyes and the brain. And you know some of his alien things is supposedly based off of parts of your brain. That's why there's different
stages because there's different parts of the brain. Yeah.
No, with with Geiger, do you do you think that he was meditating and maybe coming seeing some of that stuff.
Oh, I think he was a real deal. Yeah, I think definitely magical experiences. I think he understood there was like a change going on. I mean, if you, if you really think about it, your brain in your eyes, what determines your whole reality in the sense anyway, if you're in occultist year, eventually I would hope you study studying.
Yeah sure, yeah, yeah, naturally that's the natural there's a natural connection there.
And really, I mean physiology probably don't even realize that your eyes are just an extension of your brain. It's all connected.
I had a guy on recently. He told me to check out this guy named Joe Roup. So I went and listened to him.
On a podcast.
You have heard that name, Yeah, he's It was really interesting. The show that I listened to, he was talking about how he he meditates and he goes places like he's uh, I think he called it the astro realm. But he seems like he's able to do it on a daily basis, Like he'll he'll meditate, Oh, he got to a practice of doing it, and uh, he calls where he goes
is the astro realm. But he's having these almost sometimes he'll have these out of body experiences where he'll he'll he'll like be up above his house and he'll see himself meditating and he'll see like his kid in the other room playing with the toy and stuff, you know, or he'll see, you know, the kid doing something, and when he comes out of out of his meditation, he'll go in and look in the other room and the kid will be doing you know what he saw the
kid doing above the house where he was out of his body kind of stuff. Yeah, he's he's So that's I don't know, man, I wondering how that. Mm hmm.
People get surgeries and they see themselves worked on. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, Like that's even another thing. You think what anesthesi is doing to you. They kind of like putting you halfway out there and halfway here.
Mm hmm.
Just where the fuck are you going it? You ain't feeling nothing like that? Oh yeah.
People have that those near death experiences. I think we talked about this early on in the show today, Like the near death experience. A lot of times those people are they they see them so they're looking down at themselves on the table or in the back of an ambulance or whatever.
Yep, yep. When the guy was on the side of the road. I think like whatever car accident or something, it's like seeing his body the like it was like looking down and seeing the whole scene.
And I've heard stories from guys who who saw combat action and they when they were in like a high stress scenario. Some of those guys talked about having an outer body experience in combat.
I think my opinion, and I think this is why they understand like parts of MK ultra, I think they understand this just my opinion. I think if you put enough stress on the body, the soul will try to just escape anyway. Anything. It will say fuck you, I'm out and checking out. This is too much. I ain't down for this. Yeah, you understand that. That's how they
sulf fracturing your mind. And that's where they do like sick ship to people because it's just putting them to the brink of separating themselves to not experience the situation anymore.
Yeah, like some Sydney Gottlieb stuff.
Yeah, that's what I mean. There's even some people that uh the D I D people that have looked at it. I think we even covered a long time of like originally in the cult rejects. Sometimes you'll even see in their art they're always depicting like a shadow version of themselves. It's like, you know, is that like your your soul separating as you're getting traumatized.
Yeah, the mk ulture rabbit holes, it goes deep, man, But yeah, you're right. It seems like people in the government have figured out how to manipulate this.
Yeah. I think so, I do too.
I do too, man, I mean I had Ryder Leon. Yeah, I know, man, He's like, yeah, shout out to Rider. Good podcast to his podcast is awesome. But no, he was.
You know, I was talking to him because I watched the video he did, or the the documentary he did recently with Jay Wiener, the Clockwork Shining documentary, and they show a scene in there where Britney Spears is in an interview with Diane Sawyer maybe one of these you know, big time, big name reporters, and she says something to Britney Spears and it's a it's obviously it's a trigger word. And as soon as she says the word, Britney's everything changes.
She she steps into another personality. It's so clear, and it's like a childlike personality that she steps into and it's very weird because it's like, how did Diane sawyer Because the word she used was not a word you would just normally throw in a conversation, right she she said, it's all almost like she said the word on purpose to get Brittany to to to turn into somebody else. It's so creepy. But it's like, first of all, it's like how does she who clued her in to that?
It's like.
To who, Like how did she find out the operating word to use on Britney Spears? And why is Britney Spears being mind controlled in the first place? Fractured, I think we're going to just you know, I think that we're going to just continue to figure out stuff. When it comes to MK ultrue, I think it's like way more widespread than than we we realize because they've had.
Really some affluent family that's into this ship and you want to push it onto your kids and make them experience, Yeah, people doing it, And.
Man, I mean, how how how deep is it with the music industry, and.
Like, I just you not even having a chance or a choice. I mean, I know, man, it's like.
That's crazy. But I mean, I mean, like we can we can start to wrap it up with this, but like the occult, since you're since you were in officially in the OTO for six years, and like you're well studied on this stuff and you're well versed, and I appreciate you coming on and telling me this stuff. Man, I really do when when you and I know, I think I've heard you tell me you play guitar. I think we talked about that. When you look at like certain musicians, certain big bands, do you who do you
think really was into this stuff? Who do you think really practice magic? Like Beatles, Zeppelin? Who really don't?
Oh, I do? I definitely think. Uh, I think at least John Lennon the Beatles, I think Zeppelin. I'm gonna be totally honest with you, believe it or not. I think when it comes to like those seventies bands or those rock bands, I think for the most part, a lot of them actually understood because you'll start seeing like even but it this way, you saw, like actually paying attention to eclip symbolism. You start seeing that shit over
a lot of rock and heavy metal bands. But I do actually believe a lot of them, A lot of them do. But I, in my opinion, I think the magical experiences is what helps make the artists who they are. Because again, now I'm saying that it's neo, but I think you will be able to learn better and become better at what you do if you're fuck with magic. But no, no, uh, I'm not trying to think of like maybe specifics. I do think Ozzie actually definitely knows,
you know what I'm saying, Like people like him. I think Metallica, believe it or not, Mega Death for sure, Slayer for sure, Slayer, fuck you for sure. Uh yeah, a lot of them, the metal bands from back in the day, back then, I think they were definitely if you were to go listen to a lot of this shit then now they're not saying much. And then a lot of conspiracy dudes we're telling us too. Yeah, some fucking vaccinations are gonna fuck humanity.
Yeah, I mean I've always been I've always heard too that Slayer was I've heard from Slayer fans that there's I don't know, there's something. I don't know if it's something they talked about in their lyrics or whatnot, but I've always heard.
They say I definitely think they've experienced what I have.
Yeah, Yeah, yeah, man. And you know, I saw an article the other day about for Shani from the Chili Peppers. That guitarist he said he got deep into the occult for a little bit. He said he quit the band over it.
Who are you saying that again? Which one again?
Uh? The guitar player for the Red Hot Chili Peppers John for Shanti.
Yeah, I think they are. I know a lot of people listen. I will give Crowley credit. Like, I'm sure a lot of people out there Arthelomites are into his idea of magic that are in like music and movies. I'm not sure if it's everybody, but like I have people, I have heard people somewhat suggest that their album Blood Sugar, Sex Magic was you know very much. Yeah there all right.
Another thing with the Beatles. Now again this isn't a ritual that Crowley wrote, but the Beatles' Help album, all those symbols that they're doing is actually stuff that you'll use in rituals. This is the sign of Osyrius slain. At one point, you will make the sign of a swastika for the sign of the morning of isis. If you don't want to make the swastika, you go like this, you make an L shape, somebody's doing that. The Sign of Earth is almost basically doing the hitless sign, fucking
Ringos doing that. And who else did I leave out?
I don't know.
All of those are actual either part of the LVX formula or the elemental sign of Earth. It's like, look when I saw that ship after I saw the practice, and I was like, oh, that's the fucking I do that the fuck right there. On the Beatles Help album, well.
They seem like they were they were studying. It seems like there was almost like a a a little I don't know if I should call it a movement or like it seemed like a lot of people from the seventies and maybe even the sixties there was like an inclination for some of them to get into the occult.
Like Bowie right, oh yeah, Bowie was big. He was big, kind of open with being into the Golden Down. Yeah, then like the Golden I think so, and then again like see again, like there's rituals that I'm explaining. The Golden Dorn were kind of they say they originated with them. I don't think maybe, but those are Golden Doorn rituals that Crowley eventually incorporated into the Limix stuff. Star Ruby is his, but like the pentagram of the Hexagram rituals
not his. They came from the Golden dooring technically, mm hmm. I would think, and I do think was Bowie was into that ship.
Yeah, yeah, I think too. Like I've heard Danny Carey, drummer for tool is A is in the Lima.
He has uh. He will have magical sweats on his uh, on his drums and he'll I don't know if he's specifically trying to hit certain areas on the magical squazes. It's not something out, but he does put squaze on his fucking uh. He does put a cult symbols on his fucking drums.
Well, his drums sound. Some of his drum parts sounds completely otherworldly, especially on that last album they put out, Uh Fear and Oculum. Oh yeah, some of the drum parts on air Man, it doesn't even sound like it's a drum, like he's doing crazy stuff. It sounds like some new instrument, some like something he invented.
Let go check that album out again today.
Oh it's good.
So I have only listened to like a few parts of a few songs and that was it.
Oh yeah, listen to hisloaded with the Cult stuff. Oh probably I should look at it again for that reason too. But I mean, like, listen to his drum parts. Man, they are wild. Like it's not it's he's doing something new and something primitive at the same time. It's crazy. It's like tribal, almost shamanic. Oh yeah, okay, yeah yeah, but listen, man, this has been great. I appreciate you coming on. Man, it's been a really good conversation.
Yeah. Yeah, me too. Actually great questions to I appreciate it thinking, okay, yeah, cool.
Well it's great information, man. It helps like when the when the information coming from from the guests corner is good, the questions are good, you know what I mean, Like I'm feeding off of I'm feeding off of that. But anyway, uh yeah, thanks for coming on. Tell everybody where they could find you.
Yes, The Occult Rejects that is on Bitch, Shoot, Rumble and YouTube and all major podcasts. If you haven't heard the show, it is, you know, basically focuses on the occult. We will touch on true crime sometimes if it includes the occult, sometimes paranormal, but we do try to kind of like focus more on occult ideas and topics. And there's probably about a total of twelve of us. We don't all show up on the show at the same time.
We normally revolve around like anywhere from three to five or six people at a time, so you know, we have different people on for different topics. It's a pretty interesting type of podcast, so check it out. Stefan.
Yeah, and I mean I've heard some of the rejects, if not all of them. There's it's a group of people who have a lot of knowledge, a lot of insight, and it's always you know, if you want to really get in deep to into whatever topic it might be, you know your group of rejects, man that you've compiled a nice community of people who have like great insights. So and I'll leave it at that as always break the mold, conquer the realm, and thanks for listening.