Magick, Medicine, & Meditation with Dr. Jordan Barber

and Ethan and doctor Jordan Barber. You know, it's really cool to be invited on these kind of smaller panel shows with other ocult tasts or mystics or I don't know how you identify Jordan, but yeah, I'll say that, so thank you.

healthcare and spirituality and how they intertwine. And you can find me practically on Anywhere's j barbar l A C. And yeah, can't wait.

and then I go be an asshole. Right, It's you know, I do the thing and I hold it inside and I become that thing. And therefore, you know, magic or anything is the thing that you're always doing. Right, So you could be you know, taking a pee and conducting magic somehow if you really were in his zone. So you know, I've kind of passed the idea of like what am I mostly because if you ask me every day, I'll give you a different title.

starts to become And it's funny. I noticed this because of James Wasserman saying that he thought the LBRP was actually like physical meditation once you get into the zone with it. And I had started like realizing that's kind of what happens once I start working out, especially like when I have my own regimen and like what I know I'm doing, and I have the certain exercises I know I'm doing every time, it almost becomes like a

physical meditation. And I will be honest, some of the best ideas really either coming from the shower or when I'm working out in the gym and just zoned out and doing what I'm doing and kind of like not thinking about ten million things at once. I even find that to be a.

mind gets, which we've all probably experienced for meditation. So doing the LBRP or any of those things definitely start stealing the mind, especially with the focus and concentration, and I think regarding in the Black books started talking a lot about different ways to use the LBRP for you know, mental fitness, for getting rid of you know, negative emotions and everything else. So I would agree there's definitely some stuff there.

you can sit in that meditation. So if you've got a lot going on, you need to move, you need to exercise, and it could be anything from heavy lifting to running to jogging, and then steal that moment for the meditation. That's what I would recommend is that, you know,

whatever is necessary for a person. Grandma who's sitting on the couch probably just needs to walk to the kitchen and back and that might be good enough for her, and they can probably sit and do you know badwan jin or silk realing practice in the couch and a seated position if they want it, because it's enough focus just to look at you know, the motions and moving the arms and stretching the back and opening the front and just these little dallions or guiding and leading practices

that are good enough for that person's metabolism. You know, I think that's why we need good teachers. You know something that in the age of the Internet, we want the teachers to be you know, whatever forum we read or whatever book we read or anything else, which are great to start, but you need someone who's been down the path to show you and correct you.

where we get chi is energy. You know, that's not the definition in Chinese, but you know it's good enough. That's why suddenly Chokras rolled into it. And that's why there's crystals, and that's why a lot of acupuncturists are very crunchy in granoli is. That's just how it made its way in America. It doesn't mean it doesn't work, and doesn't mean that we haven't done a good job to encapsulate it. But there's it being a very second tier medical profession and being in a lot of private schools.

There are some very good schools and there are some less than good schools. Like all things, the barrier of entry is not that high, and not being competitive and not being integrated with medical schools and being hospital system so though that's starting to change, prevent the kind of the normal I guess shithing that would occur to someone in medical training and seeing gravely sick people and everything else.

So there's a lot. So for me, I entered the profession expecting one thing and realized it was that and was like, you know, it worked for me. I was sick, I was in it went through nine to eleven. I was down there. I had some PTSD from it, wanted to get into a profession. It mattered through my own healing crisis and all this other stuff. I wound up doing Chinese medicine because it helped me and when Western medicine failed. But then when I was learning it, I

couldn't really get it to work. You know, it was a lot of bullshit, for lack of a better term, it's a lot of new age weird shit that like was very western Western view of the orient. We say oriental is a bad word. Now oriental medicine is his whole term. But oriental means to orient oneself to the east and view the east from the west, and that's exactly what we did. So it's a very you know, for lack of better term, culturally appropriated, though that's not

my language set. We definitely did that with that, and that's happening with Araveda and all the other traditional systems here. But I was lucky to find my first teacher who was a douscher or a Dallas priest. He left the school, he was only a briefly, and through series of events, I started learning I don't want to say real stuff, but I started learning stuff, let's put it that way.

And I also embarked in cultivating and Dallas practices, and that led led to a series of many different events, from seeing exorcisms to getting in touch with actual energy based work, making acupuncture actually work, you know a bunch of things. I mean, I could go off on tangents forever, but that's like the brief part of my you know spiel, my soapbox of Chinese medicine. It's been about twenty years, so I've got some stuff than.

ethnic Chinese. It's a little different. But so I'm very curious about that.

Dragon Gates lineage, which is the biggest one. It's not that fancy, it's like practically everyone's dragons Gape lineage, and the Tuncheon sect is the three vehicles of Chinese mess of Chinese spirituality right now Confucianism, Dalism and Buddhism mixed together, so that's syncretic already. And then depending on you have your regional stuff, the closer you get to the lower border, you get more of the Bone tradition and Ti Bat

mixed into it. And then do you have people the priests that are practicing in the temples, so do you have the people practicing in the mountains, So they're vastly different, and how they approach to lease externally the stuff internally maybe it's not so different, right, So you know my view came from that tradition, which was much more the mountain tradition, you know, not serving the people in daily rituals and you know that was all to work every single day and had a lot of the Tibetan stuff

kind of mixed into it, which made it very interesting. And prior to that, I did some Verishana like practices and retreats, you know, because I was practicing or trying to practice Buddhist meditation when I was younger. But for me, I always thought I wanted to do the the exor systems and stuff. And that comes from being like an occultist at like you know, fifteen years old, right, Like

we all want to do that shit. We all want to like, you know, do the lesser Kia Solomon and you know, make something appear and you know, go fetch me some treasure and you know a hot girl.

the Catholics, oppression, possession, et cetera. Right, and if I notice it's there, I'm like, cool, that can stay there. I'm not interested in it. I'll just try to get them healthy and you know that's between them and they could go find someone else. It's not my battle because that shit's really fucking scary. Honestly, you know, it's exactly what you think you wanted to be when you're a kid,

and hope it's not when you're an adult. So like for me, we knew this one person, you know, for lack of term, we said we would call it affectionately squirrels. Had some squirrels living inside the you know, their head, you know, the idea of squirrels in the attic, right, but we're like, eh, whatever. So my teacher was actually just treating them. They just came in, you know, and it was kind of discussed, like I don't know, we

might have to approach the topic. And I hear a big freaking noise and I shit you not, a sword goes through the sheet rock wall. And I turned around with the secretary up front, and I was like, the fuck right, there's a sword through the wall. And then the door just opens, like I hear, like prior to that, I was hearing crazy ass noises in it, but like I've given up on crazy noises, right, you know, because

a lot Dallas practices could get weird and whatever. And the door just opened, So it's like, Jordan, could you fetch me a box and then come in here and just closes the door. And I'm like the fuck, But I knew what that meant. It was a box's box to trap the demons in or to hold them in, right, because in this specific lineage, one of the things you could do, so you can take these spirits or demons and you could actually repurpose them to do good or

repurpose them to heal other people. One thing that could consume the person's blood, which is where the spirit resides in Chinese medicine, could also be repurposed to help someone who has a blood based disorder or you know, severe mental illness and everything else. So you capture them to repurpose them, or you capture them to work for you, to make you know, I mean, there's nothing new under to side. So I had to find a box, which we didn't have, so I had to like run out

and find that. Like two doors down there was like a hobby shop, and I'm like looking for this wooden box like buy what. I come in and I get in there, this this person is like you know, it's the exorcist, like foaming, like moving writhing around in weird ways. A lot of shit was going on and there were shards of glass everywhere that broke because of something, and I was told to get the shards, get them in the box while they were doing whatever, and it was

like right out of Ghostbusters. It was like, by the way, you didn't look into the glass, did you? And I'm like yeah, like no, you shouldn't look into the glass. And I'm like, oh, okay, this is something to do with like reflections and how it can like get into your mind or whatever. Yeah, it was wild. It was absolutely wild. And then after that that person was like a new human. It was bizarre. Like I sort of like a week later and they didn't even recall most

of it happening. They were just like, oh, I don't know, I guess you broke something in there, you know, Like and I had to be the one to close up the hole in the sheet rock because I was a low man. Yeah that time, So like you know, the next day, I'm in there with like speckle okay, like that's normal. But you know we had gensing men running around, you know, so the ginsing roots can become alive and animated.

There's all these stories in Chinese law about that, and you know, I used to think they were joking, but they're mischievous. And then next thing, you know, like weird stuff starts happening. You can't find a ginsing man, and then he reappears on a shelf that you left him at, and it gets really bizarre. You know, you start stepping one foot into the other world. And you know, for me, during a lot of the practices, we start doing what I guess would be called the Dallas Wines of enlightenment.

They're different drinks that you make with herbs, made with incantations, cooked at certain times, and drank on certain astrological days to do certain things. And yeah, they put you in a different place, and you know, you have to reintegrate and the shit. You know, I've been a Western initiate quite a long time in my life. The Eastern shit has done more and more quicker than like anything that

I've encountered in the West. Now that might mean I just didn't do all the practices in the West, or maybe didn't have the right instructors, or you know, lodges maybe give the information slowly or they don't have it. So I'm not knocking the West. I'm sure we have it.

of bring me to that place. But I had, as you joked, I had experimented with Gosha Solomon, all the Keys of Solomon, both greater and lesser, lots of different kinds of magical attacks, more leftime path modern occoultism, but it really was Vadriana and just more of like letting magic go and saying, yeah, that's okay, I don't need to do that. But then I started having much more profound experiences, No.

realized that that stuff is key. And even in my Western practices, without the Eastern practices and understanding how energy moves in the body, I don't think I would have had as much success as I did because we don't really learn and I think we're talking about this before we started. You know, in the West, it's rare that we focused on the the body and cultivating the body

first and cultivating the mind. It's written everywhere. But then we jump in and decide, you know, I want to get you know, a girlfriend, and I want to whatever, so we you know, take the bacus god form and go out to the pub. Might have done that. It was a good time about that. Yeah, I know that was wild. But you know that's the stuff that we decided to do in the West because I don't think it's it's not we're so far divorced from it, the idea that we need to perfect ourselves in our minds.

I think maybe if this was fifty or sixty years ago, you know, we still kind of had that because even in like Catholic practices and stuff like, there's a lot of calming the body, calming the mind, devotional practices and everything else. But we're so de christianized at this point, for good and for worse, that I don't think we see the importance now. We just want to fill ourselves with everything as quickly as possible.

for him. And it was like fundraising for him because it was that kind of like what there's a word for it, specific word for but it's like the you know, the money churches, but there's yeah, not the mega church. There's there's a term for like spiritual like God's going to give you money because that's what he wants you to have. Well, here's the term. I can't remember it.

just pure evil because it's it. It's a parasite and sucks the last hope out of people who have lost their hope. It's sickening, it's cancer.

or groups and stuff. But Nick and I have seen it where like people will come to certain you know, lodges or groups and they're seeking for something, whether they're they're you know, sick, or they're you know, maybe they don't have friends for whatever reason, you know, or they're outcasts or whatever, and they think by joining a magical group they're going to get all the powers and suddenly

change their lives. And conversely, we can see on like Instagram, you know, who do people and whatever selling sorcery to fix your love life, get your you know, husband or wife back or whatever, or break up someone right for you know, only three thousand dollars. And we also have that same predatorial stuff in medicine, where you know, when people get sick, you take tonightis right, bringing of the ears,

there's no known cure. I happen to suffer from a small bout of it, but there's no known cure to it. Cognitive behavior therapy is all we have. There's Tonight's retraining therapy that habituates you to the sound, that doesn't make the sound go away. There's people all over selling courses telling you you just need to go keto carnivore, you just need to cut out. I don't know orange juice.

I don't know anything right. Everyone's selling something or buy this weird supplement or this three thousand dollars course way. They tell you it's just your emotions, and I'm sure

emotions have something to do with Tonight's. But there's so much predatory stuff happening in spirituality and then the occult, and I think people, you know, I don't want to say we need the gatekeep it because that's the wrong term, but I think there needs to be more awareness of like, hey, if you can't eat now, it's not the time to join a lotch, you know. And in some lodges they are like that, if you can't afford, they do assess you and stuff like that. So I'm not knocking any

particular group. But then you know, you have her Reddit, you know, mages who you know, I think they know everything and they can't manifest anything. And they're you know, losing their mind because they're upset about what Trump tweeted today. And that's not the sign of a person who's got control of their mind, regardless of how you feel about Trump.

He just brought out a book. Blah blah blah. Yo, you're coming at me like I was boys with this dude, Like what is wrong with you? It was insane. I'm like, I'm like, this is not the sign of somebody like showing, you know, doing the great.

I think the lima actually is quite balanced. It is I would say, a middle path. It's just that most of the people will practice it like the left handed stuff, because it's sexy. It's fun. Literally, it's sexy sex. Right, So they start doing more and more of these things, so they start having all the crappy parts of their psyche come to the surface because they didn't rarefy themselves and verify their mind, that's my guess, and then they think and do it. That will means whatever the fuck

I want, it must be right, because I'm a star. Meanwhile, they're like barely a star, barely dwindling any light because they're so messed up. That would be my guess, But I don't know.

you're also a loser. You know, if you hang around people are constantly hustling, you're going to be hustling because you need to catch up with them. So the circle that you keep is the energy that you keep, It's the vibration. If the company you keep spiritually is demons, you get demon g You get demon energy, and then you really can't wonder why your life is falling apart. You know, you might be happy because that's the energy you want. But you look at the demon Altrey people, right,

those are the people that do demon work. But it's they just do like incantations for specific demons and they build relationships with them and whatnot. You know, and it's a valid path. But I remember going during COVID, you had a lot of free time right now. I remember going down the rabbit hole watching the YouTube videos of the demon ultry practitioners and a lot of them. I was like, oh lord, you need you need mental health counseling like not demon and a diet, you know, like

that's the other thing. You know, body temple, right, you don't you don't have to be like lean and fit. But if you can't move and can't breathe, the energy ain't moving through you that well, you know, so what are you doing? And like you can start doing certain magical practices or meditations to help you get your body better, but that should be the first thing you do. You know, you might be a fairly accomplished learned occult this, but if you weigh five hundred pounds, I promise you ain't

doing much well. You're struggling to breathe, not for nothing.

and your energy becomes better. Everything should get better in your life on a spiritual practice, and that could be literally devotion to the Virgin Mary. It doesn't have to be anything. If you are practicing and getting in touch with something that whatever lack by a term source, it will benefit your life. Well, your energy will change, just like the demon she Well, instead, you're touching something that's pure and holy or whatever, and you will start emanating that.

You know, and I'm pretty sure holy doesn't look like chocolate hut. So you know, not, you know, and I'm not fat shaming, that's not what I know, right, I don't want to pick on people, you know.

are your main three macronutrients. When you have two of them competing, right then, So if you're taking let's say, both carbs and fats at the same time like fettigenie alfredo delicious, those are two super rich sources, that becomes a major issue in the body, that creates inflammation, that creates fatness. But if you just eat straight carbs, you can actually fuel the body. And restricting carbs also has some negative effects on some people depending on how their

mitochondria is. So it gets it gets wild, but ultimately eating less crap and waiting until your full, you know, I mean waiting to you're hungry, and stopping when you're full is good advice no matter what. And I think, you know, for spiritual people and people who want to practice spiritual stuff should focus on things like that and say how do I feel? Write that in their journal. I ate this today. My meditation was shit. I had

ten pops of coffee. I can't focus, you know, I've got my coffee down and I'm really upset by that. But I noticed I feel better.

But you know, paying attention to your body and not competing with other people, keeping up with the joneses, but just paying attention to how your body feels and what signals it's giving you, you know, I think is so important and it's the foundation of a spiritual practice. You know, if you want to get better, you have to get better in all regards and just simple practices will lead you there. And if they're not leading you there, then

maybe your practice isn't working. Maybe you're just psyching yourself out. I mean regard he talks about it that every true initiate on the path should have a therapist. Now you can get to define what a therapist means, but you have to have someone that you're working through your shit with, or a friend that you can lean on that you're really discussing your shit with, right, or some sort of like reflective practice, And a lot of people aren't doing that,

you know. I think for me, one of the best things I ever did, And took a long time for me to get a therapist. And I was originally super anti therapy, but you know, shop for a therapist. That's not you know, the lack of better term. You know, someone is just gonna tell you, you know, oh, your bad habits are good, you know, or positive reinforcement of like your own identity, you know, someone it should just be like, yeah, that's not good, you should change.

I've always felt like a lot of the coupleistic ideas that Crowley and other people were talking about, they actually make sense in a lot of ways. And maybe I don't agree with them particularly, but they make sense, so there's a logic to it that I can follow. So and I agree with you it's but people have the riety about the left hand path and what that is obviously,

just broadly. And I also agree with your point that the like being engaged with well, the relationship with your deity, at least in Buddhism, is that it's a it's a dialogical relationship, but it arises partly from your mind. Maybe there's other power, maybe not, you know, sort of interstitial sort of thing. It's neither nor and so, yeah, if you engage with low things, low consciousness beings of low consciousness or forms of low consciousness or the husk of

like you're putting all your devotion into a husk. Obviously that's not your mind is the carnel ground already. So there's there's really no point to engage with the sort of negative forces because you're already gonna you're already gonna encounter them. So I agree with that, and I just thought it was really interesting because my conclusion just from a knowing Nick has been very similar.

but it doesn't mean it's only on the left. So when we look at the Western traditions, whether it at Golden Dawn or you know, uh ohto AA type stuff, you're talking about the lightning bulb path on the coplistic tree, which is going between the left than right pillars back and forth, which creates the equilibrium as you travel up. Crowley himself said that you have to go to the depths of hell to reach the highest heavens, paraphrasing completely. You know, you have to see both the ugly so

that you can see, you know, all the beauty. So it has to That makes it a middle path. But a lot of people get stuck on one side because a lot of people don't want to face their ship. Ascending the tree is facing their ship, you know, which is like what you were saying, Jen, you know it's gonna it's gonna pop up. You know, you're gonna become aware of your stuff. That's why I say it's middle.

feel it's okay to feel shitty, and it's okay. Then I'm acting this way because I'm dealing with my shadows right now. I've seen a lot of that kind of a way or an excuse to be a shithead. And when you're dealing with your shadows, you are usually acting out a little bit anyway. So I mean it's part partly true, but if it's going on for a year,

that's you and then you know. The other part makes me think of like kurk Obanes, like I missed the comfort of being sad, right, what's that scentless Apprentice the lyrics. It's like, sometimes we are so used to feeling like what however, shitty or emotional, or used to our current condition, that it feels forearm to feel different. So we gravitate back to the thing that we know, because that's still

really our overall energetic state. We're trying to shift energetic states, but the lower vibration is what we're still kind of used to. I love your perspective.

It's just if you haven't progressed, you should ask yourself why aren't you progressing, That's all? And then fix it right, you know, uh forgetting his name. He's a fairly cultivated individual Westerner, but I think he lives in Thailand now and he was talking about meditation recently, and he was talking about practicing meditation and working on posture because pasture is important. Lazy pasture leads to lazy meditation to mind get sleepy. And he was just like, just do it.

And maybe it's only twice a week, Okay, that's better than no times a week. Maybe it's only five minutes, that's better than no minutes. Don't be like, well, I want to do thirty minutes every single day and I didn't get to it, so therefore I suck. No, you still did cumulatively forty minutes this week, and next week maybe you do forty five. And that's perfectly fine. You know in the West, where we want everything so prescriptive,

but the human body isn't very prescriptive. It's constantly changing. The day is constantly changing, the energies of the day are constantly changing. And I think we need to be kinder to ourselves, but we also have to be willing to say the unsaid to ourselves as well when necessary. Yeah, you're being lazy. I could tell when I didn't do my dallion this morning because I got too excited about a project I was working it, working on right now, which I did complete today. So I'm very excited. And

now I feel it, you know. And I remember my teacher saying, if you don't do Dallian one day, you know it, don't do Dallian two days. He's like, I know it. You don't do it three days. Your patients know it. And I'm like, ah, you know when he told me that twelve thirteen years ago, I was like, ah, you know, I got good. G I'm fine. Now I'm like, nah, he's fucking right. I feel it today. I didn't do it. I should have done it. That's funny. But I'm not

gonna knock myself and be like, oh that's it. Fucking I'm not gonna do dallion the rest of a week. I'll start again next week like a diet. Right, It's like, no, I'll get back on the horse, you know at all?

got to start meditating first. No, it sounds like it's boring and it sucks, and he wants start casting circles and doing all this, But everybody suggests to meditate first.

need to banish this person out of my life. But if I get them out of my life, that means they'll get close to my true will. But you don't know your will, so how do you know that person is. That's sad you don't know. But you could also just tell them to just leave. You don't need a magic

ritual to cut someone out of your freaking life. I mean, maybe you do, depending on how nasty they are, right, but like, generally no, it's because you don't have strong enough boundaries to actually tell people to get the fuck out of your life that you need to do it in secret with magic. But here's the thing, if you can't actualize it in the material plane, it ain't gonna work. You have to be able to physically back it up. And I think that's is that Lon Milo Duquet or

someone else. That's basically you have to still do the magic and be able to do it in real life too. Maybe it's not lawn, Maybe maybe it's actually ruin soup Gordon. I can't remember anymore, you know, I'm getting too old. My brain's not working. But you know, you have to back up the stuff of real, real things, you know, And often I don't see that. I see a lot of people wishing, you know, writing stuff down whatever, like do your sigil and then do all the work that's

necessary to allow it that sigil to happen. You know, you if you want to win the lotto due to sigil for the lotto, but also go plate a lotto, play a lot can happen.

It's not actual meditation right in an Eastern definition, right, because the depths of meditation, you know, union of one and all that stuff that comes after training the mind. But most of the stuff, you know, what we call mindfulness in the West is an absolute joke. It's just training the mind to be less adhd, which has its benefits. Right,

It's stage one of training. But like you know, Bakhdi Yoka, which is found in the AA but could be found in Roman Catholicism, Orthodox or probably in you know, Islam and Hindu devotion to something else side of yourself and tending to its statue or doing its prayers. There's novenas or whatever system you're working in is mind training and meditation.

So if you can't train the mind and sit and you know, focus on one spot just yet, you can do other things to train the mind, and all of that perfects the mind and allows sort of things to come. When you look at the yoga stutters a pententolyy you know, it talks about the basic trainings and the stages of focus, right, and then eventually comes all the mysterious things, you know, psychic stuff, you know, and like all the things, and it says those are distractions. Pay no attention, otherwise you

get stuck there in the West. We're aiming to get to those things so that we could stop there. It's like, oh, now I'm psychic, and I can you know, see these things, and now you're actually trapped, you know, in the illusion, et cetera, et cetera. You know, we need to train the mind so that we may get these psychic and preys or whatever. And we also say I don't care and I keep going and they go past that. That's

when meditation starts, right. But you know, in the West, we want to take five hundred, six hundred dollars mindfulness courses with someone who went to Tibet for a weekend once, and you know, it's now getting paid all this money to teach you mindfulness and they're a psychologist or whatever. And I'm not picking on anyone because there's like nine hundred of them.

this is what a lot of spiritualities become. And it's like spirituality is something you do like every day by yourself constantly when you meet strangers, you're practicing spirituality because it should be who you are. You shouldn't be practicing it. It should be a thing that you are. You're human. This is part of the divine right of being incarnated or whatever you want to believe. It's I did my

practices in the morning, therefore that's it. You know. I do my dallion in the morning because I will forget if I don't. But I continue the focus of all those things as much as I can. So I guess I did my dallion today because I still focused on certain things. I paid attention to certain chi movements in my body and areas that were tight and make sure

that they were flowing and whatnot. Because the Dallian practices I do or to make sure the burnings are open and make sure the cheese moving in the eight directions based on a baghwah. So I'm still aware of it. I don't just do it to dallion in the morning call it a day. Right, You don't do your prayer in the morning and say now I go be an asshole. I get on the subway and start being a dick. I love riding the subways and watching people in the morning.

So like when I teach, unfortunately it's early in the morning, I gotta get in a subway and the amount of people that are dead, just dead, just checked out. And I'm like usually I got like the Misfits on or something, and I'm just enjoying my life and I'm looking at people, and I'm like, I'm doing what I was trained not to do as a kid in the city of like make eye contact with people. But I'm like, yo, are you there? What's going? People just checked out? What kind

of life is that? You know? But then they're gonna go to yoga at the end of the day and maybe even do their curtain practice and maybe get a little life back to them and then go back to feeling dead. Forgive me.

And you know, I don't I think those who look poorly upon someone having a spiritual life, you know, I questioned their life, not mine. Right, But no one should know what I practice, Nor have I said what I practice other than I do a dalli in practice. I haven't said any orders that I've been involved with or not.

No one should know who cares whatever I'd be like, I'm a you know, two hundredth degree of the you know whatever, you know, reach around order like that, doesn't you know, Like so therefore listen to what I'm saying, Like that doesn't matter, right, But how many people on the internet like I'm a fucking you know, seventh degree

of whatever, Like I who fucking cares? Like that's so dumb, you know, just like in martial arts, which I used to martial arts all the time, I'm an eighth don I'm like, yeah, but you can't move you're so fat, Like you know, I'm not picking up fat people, but like I know people like that. I'm like, who's asked? Are you kicking? I could run away. I don't need to be any done, right, it can run.

of high school that are freaking brilliant, you know. So like these titles and all those things don't matter. So your spirituality, like who cares what you practice? I care who you are, right, because if you're a shithead, I don't give it. Actually, I want to know what you practice that, so I don't practice that.

alive practice. She prayed for everyone. Shit, I can't even do that. Yeah, there's people I just still hate, right, but we want to knock Now I'm being honest, but we want to knock like you know, organized religion. But there's a woman who prayed for everyone. Fuck. If I could aspire to be that, I would feel good, you know. Instead, we spend so much time, especially in the Lima and stuff like that, you know. And it's not Fema itself. It's this artifact of Croley. But you know, everyone's like

shit on Christianity and everything else. No one's really looked deep into what Crowley was talking about and how he actually saw Christ.

you know, current Pope may rest in peace. You know, was in the process of banning the Latin rite, which makes me ask a lot of questions, you know. But it's all symbolism, but not just symbolism. It's it's potent, it's wild. You know. I can see how Frederikad was like, oh, but you have to have the eyes to see in the ears to hear.

You know. But the Golden Dawn says it too. An adept can practice and you know, an a depth can worship in any church or any temple. Yeah, it doesn't have.

all right, I'm just going to make changes. It'll come off because I'm going to do the things, you know, And if I had pizza that day, I wouldn't be like, oh God, I ruined everything. And same with your spiritual practices. Instead of trying to you know, invoke into physical manifestation and be alt zaba or whatever, why don't you start with some simple prayer or devotional practice or simple meditation and get that dialed into a ten or maybe an eleven,

and see how you feel. And then if you really want to evoke the alsabab, which I do not recommend, but if you really want to do that, I guarantee you it to work a lot better.

did mention something earlier about even astrology and health. Oh yeah, so just lightly touch on that maybe.

being used because it was part of it. Just like in the West in medieval times, in Renaissance times, you had astrology as part of the kind of prognosis of a person. And from playing around with it, I've gotten pretty good at some of it. There's something to it, you know. And now I'll probably never publish an academic paper again for saying that it's like like going against COVID when it was like super in vogue to be pro COVID.

you know, my cancer goes away. I don't think that would happen. I would still make the tealsman, because why not you know, cover every single uh, you know, corner. But I think, you know, just like the West, we've been saying kind of lost this understanding spirituality, medicine has

lost spirituality. And while I'm not saying time for medical doctors to cast your you'r a chart when you fall into the er for you know, a hoary chart or something like that, I think learning to integrate some of the things I think our ancestors and forefathers knew about disease. I mean, think of the word rheumatism, right, rheumatic rooms goes to the humors, right, which was you know, the

Greek system. We talk about these things and we say when we have rheumatism, you know, when the cold is in our joints, or the dampness is in our joints it's a damp day, or the weather's changing, I feel it.

where you got fresh air in sunlight. Right. If you look at the latest research of sunlight and morning sunlight specifically it's effect on circadian rhythm, and even there's research out there that the reason why we're suffering from cholesterol issues is because we're not getting morning sunlight, which cleaves and sets up a certain cascade metabolically that starts making our body able to use cholesterol, so it actually lowers our cholesterol and prevents placking. We used to see the

morning sunlight all the time. We used to be out and get sunlight all the time. Now we don't go outside. We're in blue light constantly. The sunlight through our windows is filtered, so we don't get DEEM for red red spectrum, which is the spectrum that's needed to counter that blue light. Right, So we're in these sick environments. We don't go to sleep when we're supposed to go to sleep. Right, we were bombarded with like dopamine stimulating things. We know all

these things. We're so far removed from what it means to be human and bringing in more humanness and spirituality would start with fresh air and sunlight, clean water, clean food, you know, shutting down at night. I have a tungsten halogen tungsten bulb above. It's not on right now because it would make me glow as if, you know, my spirituality would be even bigger because tungsten is incandestined emit

all the foreig infrared. So I use it to help balance out my light when I'm working at my workstation. It's also a nice quality light. But you know, I try to make my indoor light as adaptable to outside as possible because I still have to work inside. And the health measurements are like ridiculous sleep quality, energy, weight loss, mood, all these things. So learning to be a human is

so crucial, and we don't do that anymore. That's why everything, like the Western systems are messed up, Western medicines messed up, everyone's sicks, Society hates each other because we don't know what it means to be human anymore. My opinion, at least you're gonna get so much hape, Nick.

like he was. He was even saying back then he thought it was important for the health and the body.

but like, you know, be careful. He could be deceptive. And that's the priest who you know, has a great relationship with all the saints and everything else. And it's purified his body and gone to confession and you know, probably hasn't done anything terrible, right, so his his energy is pretty high and he's like be careful. We're like, yeah, I hate my life. Let me conjure this guy. I need a few bucks. It's weird.

high magic. And there were some people doing it, and I think some people were doing it quite successfully, you know, I'm not knocking Gaetia. But you also had like Jack Grail was doing his Hika Da work, and they also had the PGM stuff. So there were like a lot of books that came out then, so a lot of people were doing PGM type stuff. It was you know, it was COVID, right, you know, I mean people had a lot of free time, you know, and I mean energetically,

COVID's a perfect time for goetic work. World's exploding energy, right you know. I mean, yeah, yeah, I won't I won't go further to that.

gold heart and all that. So it's really, you know, it's it's it's edifying, and I think it's good for me to hear it, but then also for other people here because you're a lot more respectable than me, and so you know, so people can hear it and they and they know it's not just like me being like weird on Twitter or whatever, which is probably what they think, but there is like some underlying magical system and as well with Orthodoxy, and this is why I'm considered to

be the bane of the Ortho bros. On Twitter, because so I'll follow me, but they won't ever respond to me. Jadai or if you're listening, he does follow me. So I'm just saying, but they'll never respond because it's like you can call out there kind of like the way

he does is PfP. I'm not saying Jay in particular, but just all of them, and just you can just use the image of the cabalistic tree with the Orthodox I mean there's a you know tree right there, and so they get freaked out when you sort of make these very obvious, you know, first density kind of ideas. They don't like it. They don't like to break those klee bus So I just wanted to say thank you for saying that, I.

actually see a lot of it within the order. And I think a lot of people want to acknowledge that at all.

rosicruction lens and stuff like that, it's there. There is an understanding of Christ and what it means, and maybe that role it plays in spirituality that I think those who come in hating you know, Christianity or whatever, I think it's just going to limit them because you know, you live in the West, in which case it's impacted

by Christianity. We can hate the pedos, right, we can hate the prosperity churches, but you know, the the world that we live in has been fundamentally affected by Christianity. So you have to understand it. You can't hate the world that you existed. It's you know, fundamentally against your own growth, you know. So I think it's the borrow from the Christians. You know, hate the sin, not the sinner, right, don't hate the vehicle, hate the things that are wrong with the vehicle.

it was a little more potent for me. And then I oscillated between West and East practices, and I think I was grabbing because I got certain things from the West that I couldn't get from the East, and I got certain things from East I couldn't get from the West. I've realized, as I've matured that it's an issue with having proper teachers, proper access to the material, and not being mature, not spending enough time in the practice to

see it flour For what it is. I think both systems have probably everything in it, but it's do you have access to it? And can it work for you? And I think different temperaments need different practices. Also, different stages of life need different practices, you know. I mean, you know, what practice are you going to do when you're twenty and randy is very different than the practice you can do in your forties when you're divorced or

going through divorce? Right, Like, those are two different stages of life, you know. So I think the only thing I can say to your question, Ethan, is more like seeing and traveling in both and then still travel in both.

It's just made me aware that it's more of a me problem than the systems, and just spending the time and making sure that I asked the right questions and finding right teachers and relaxing and not trying to, you know, reach nirvana immediately, which it hasn't happened or union or whatever. It's okay, you know, I think, Yeah, I think I think we approached this like we're taking on a new martial art or new gym or a new sport. We take this new tradition when we're when we're young and

we're going to master it. I don't think that happens in spirituality because master's like that's weird, right, Like Nick and I have been through the orders and stuff I have. I have met some people that have definitely achieved certain states of mastery. I will definitely say the orders produce things. But by and far, far, very very little people achieve much of anything other than they can talk a lot about practices, and it becomes like you know, a color's card.

You know, it's like, oh, did you get this new Pokemon? You know, well, that Pokemon really gives you x amount of points, you know, like you argue over the the things, you know, which is part of a society. Remember, cult groups are also societies. So you have your own tribalism, you have your own stuff that you bond over. So it's not wrong to do those things. But we get stuck there, you know, And I think you know, and I forgot who said it, Probably a lot of people.

But the West is failing to initiate, by it far, the East is not failing to initiate. If you're doing it on percentages, right, both will initiate, both will fail to initiate. But the West is failing to initiate way stronger. And I don't know why I don't. There can be a million reasons why.

transmissions to really take root. So I think it's the same with everything. And like look at India. India had the dharma, they had everything, they could have done supposedly, just based on like a pristine idea of the world or pristine ideas, they should have been able to bloom. But it didn't. So I think that that's kind of the you know, the cycle of the world that we went through. Like if you want to call it cal Yuga, that's fine, you know, so, but the idea in Calyuga

really is not the decay of the knowledge. It's the decay of the knowledge of the method, meaning like how do we implement it? And so in twenty twenty, as in now, we are going through a Saturn Neptune conjunction. So I know Jordan brought up astrology. So interesting note is that that can also be described as like the Bina Pokema relationship if you want to apply kind of the outer three to you know, the higher series. So that's an idea. So it's it's like smoke and matter

at the same time. So it is very carnal ground. It's very like burning ground. It's like what do you make of it? That's kind of how I see it. Now we're kind of like in this state of flux. We have all the access to all these things. We know that just like as Jordan said at the very beginning, it's like the left hand path is the lightning is the lightning path. That's one hundred percent, you know, that's

one hundred percent correct. So because it is both because it is brought to bringing all it was into synthesis, rectifying everything you're drawing from into synthesis into yourself. Really so I think we in my opinion, it is what we make of it. So we're going to build something. I don't think it's inside the older institutional orders. And my this is just my personal opinion as a millennial

is like a little bit younger. I just I don't see it there because people I don't know it just I think there's we've gone through too much, and like you have to capture the millennials, you have to capture the zoomers, you have to capture you know, jen Alpha, And I just I think everyone's a little decentralized, a little decoherent, and no one really wants to follow the leader.

People are into the idea of like mastery of their own destiny, which I think is in general positive but there's a lot of traps, Like astrology can be a trap because people can then worship the planets and the stars as very fixed, very like almost fatalistic, like you

were just choice, you know, exactly exactly. So I think the idea of free will is like important to say, and so I think that's it's in any it's in any practice, and I'm glad you of that, because it is like you can do anything, but you have to do it. It is like the s like I say, the sodnize everything. The practice is everything. That's what Buddhism is. It's just you just you do it. You get up, take your beads, and you do it. That's it. So one hundred percent agree.

started coming together, so this is early new An. We're only one hundred years in and I'm just like so, like, I guess like Mark wasn't even written yet, right, you know, it's like, I don't know, I don't even buy it, you know, I would definitely in a a morphing period like Jen was saying, you know, how to get everyone behind it, I'm not sure, and I think, you know, if you look at if it's a switch between periods, there's some people that from like the thelemic idea, some

people are still the older current, the old Aon, some people are a newer a On. Then there's the theories that there may be dual AONs or multiple AONs at the same time, So there could be the Aon of Matt or not how you want to say it, right, So it might be different kind of vehicles for different people, depending on their karmac seed or whatever. But maybe that's true always. You know, maybe we're just got so much technology now that we can see these things in such

rapid fire. You know, I don't know, you know, I think about this a lot, but I think ultimately, the moment a person decides I'm done and I'm just going to start working on being a better human and find out what it means to be human, the moment none of that matters, you know, you can take that ownership and you just say today and do my practice the end, do I die?

better and make ourselves happier. But if you just increase your happiness and you know, you learn more about yourself, you don't necessarily have to hit the you know, the period where you suddenly, you know, hit a non dual state and you suddenly, you know, become like you know, an immortal you know, or something like that. Like you you could just be like my grandma and just pray for people and be happy. And that's a great stopping point, and there's no shame in that being a stopping point,

you know. Like I think a lot of people get attracted at least in the West, but you know, the East, maybe I just I'm not sure, but we get attracted these things because we feel something's lost. But we're we're we're not living like humans anymore, so of course things

feel lost right, what's our sense of community? Like I live in Brooklyn, and you know, and I love where I live, but it's like this place is crazy, you know, Like I and you know, I put in the app the other day three one one to get homeless assistance because I was in Union Square and some guys playing with his dick and obviously, you know, we're not a bunch of kids, and I'm just like homeless man playing

with his dick. I put it in the app and place like stay right back, and they're like, oh, you know, we're not handling that. You know, that's for someone else. And I'm like, what connection. We're like a low trust society here, right, versus like a high trust society. So what is the stress of living in a low trust society? You know? On a human It's it's wild, you know. And I think about that because I'm like, oh, do

I have to leave in New York one time? Because I don't want to, you know, but I'm like, at a certain point, you know, what would it feel like to live in a place where I don't have to lock my door? You know, Nick, you and I grew up in a time on you know, yeah, here, we didn't have to lock our doors, you know, Like I remember being told, you know, come home when the street lights went off, right, parents didn't know where we were, you know, and nothing bad happened because we knew everyone.

ruling in accordance with the heavens. So the heavens just gonna start, you know, falcking ship up until it reorganizes itself. And I think maybe that's just where we're at right now. You know, when things get good again, things will feel good. Otherwise the world is just going to shake things up. But it doesn't mean I can't feel good.

these problems. You know, like you're still gonna have problems with learned to get yourself out of them, right, just use all your skills of you know. For him, he's you know, very chaos inspired to navigate a time that is just not good for humans. So it's not a good time right now, but you know that's that's why

we would be learning these practices. I don't know if he spoke about that stuff or whatnot, but that's that's been his thing for a few years now, you know, especially on the private forums and stuff teaching people how to practically live safe and happy. During this period.

with you. And I appreciate the groundedness you brought to all these like sort of higher metaphysical ideals.

and that starts with a practice. But that doesn't have to be anything other than calming your mind down. You know. That's all simple stuff, you know, But I appreciate the kind and if you remember to two other things. I also knew my grandmother and she was a tough Sicilian woman, so I don't know she had much bodichta, but but she was at least practicing it.

I've done it. So we've been doing like these kind of speculative gnostic spaces where we touch on a lot of the ideas like maybe not exactly but coming from my own perspective, but we touch a lot of the ideas that you talked about. So I find it very personally edifying and interesting just for that reason, the idea of multiple ans and like what could they be, what could they call? Could different people beyond you could say, different karmic tielines as you said, so very strength.

kind of like what does consciousness actually be? And it's kind of like this examination of the non dual from this dualistic view, and Tom uses this whole like virtual reality kind of framework that everything's just one virtual reality gameplay, and I'm like, shit, maybe that's true because it doesn't actually break any of the things that I see from like an Eastern or Western tradition at its depths. I'm like, oh, maybe it's just a modern way of talking about non dual.

You should have him on Nick that.

do this. And I think that part of that was because that's kind of the magic. Like my generation and magicians was raised on like the bout the Bog forum and you know, watching Eric's YouTube videos and like you know, it's like very showmanship. Like I was never really attracted to it, but I was like you know, I'm into chaos magic and frameworks and looking at and lifting frameworks from maybe there original context, but also like looking at what the original context was as best as I could.

So it did seem to prove like a roadmap in some ways, but I agree that it's not a good path like it just didn't. It doesn't result in fruit. So I would rather focus on things that do personally. That's just my personal opinion now. So I think I've matured though, and I think that's also part of like, and Jordan touched on this, Like you said what he would practice at twenty but will use the magic number

twenty two? Is it going to be different than what you're going to practice at like in my mid thirty sea exactly, So like what because your mind is different, you've like matured a little and you're able to kind of put those things aside. So no, I thought that was a great point as well.

that's what has come down to. It's like, you know, so it's like there's a time and place. Look, if you're in danger, there might be you know, like who do is effective, you know, but it's not gonna I don't. I don't think in that practice that way, it's going to evolve you in a true initiated tradition of who do, not just someone who gets a book of who do and tries to do some honey traps and you know, wipe someone's name on the toilet paper wipe their ass

with it to make the person go away. It actually works, but you like, it's you know, that's a very Western view. It's a cultural appropriated view. And you know, I hate using those terms, but it's like it's just ripped from its deep roots and the tradition that comes with it and the practices that come within the community that comes with it, which is the spiritual side of it. You know, we just take the you know, commodity of it. You know, we just buy the one thing, you know, the spirituar.

And actually you can buy a premate spiritual honey jar, and you know, and they'll even they'll sell you the honey too. Like you can't even get the honey from the person with the bees in your local area. Now you got to buy the Amazon honey. You know, they put in your honey jar so that someone will be kind to you when you write their name put in the jar.

they're out there. You can always contact me on there. Nick, I'll send you, I guess.

but men don't You want to have better orgasms public floor? Yeah? No, men, age you know, you want to do all this cultivation, you know, to to be a you know, a champion you know at sex, you know, especially the Dallas practices. But uh, if your public floor is tight from lifting, you know, as we get older, public floors get tight or or yeah, out of disuse, and they had affects the ability to quality the orgasm for this. So hey, you know, if that's your thing, next month, I'll be

talking about that a lot. So yeah, So that's the type of content I'm doing right now. Definitely, But I appreciate the offer of coming on here. Years ago when Nick offered I it wasn't for any of this. I was just like, let's come and shoot the ship of about occult stuff. But you know, I'm happy to kind of come on here and we have a thing to kind of at least anchor it into be a good human or is that like I feel like that's like Bill and Tad right land to each other or something

like that. Right, and then that's it. But you know, if you want to follow my work, please do. I could always use more subscribers. I'm blowing up on TikTok. I've got fifty four people on there.